0:00:02 > 0:00:07This programme contains very strong language
0:00:07 > 0:00:11Starting in the 1970s, a countercultural movement
0:00:11 > 0:00:13would change the way music was made, forever.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20From grass-roots beginnings in the backwaters of Britain,
0:00:20 > 0:00:25a new DIY approach to music-making would give rise to a whole new genre.
0:00:25 > 0:00:29Not just a sound, but an attitude and an ethos.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34This is indie.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43We'll discover why it spoke so perfectly to a generation
0:00:43 > 0:00:47and reveal how this music for misfits eventually came of age.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57In the late 1970s there was an explosion of
0:00:57 > 0:00:59independent record labels in Britain.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Set-up by driven music obsessives,
0:01:01 > 0:01:06these amateur businessmen released records because no-one else would.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10In this episode we look at the 1980s, when some of these
0:01:10 > 0:01:15independent labels begin serious businesses, even rivalling the majors.
0:01:15 > 0:01:19It was also the decade in which indie became a genre of music,
0:01:19 > 0:01:22with its own sound, fashion and culture.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24This is the rise of indie.
0:01:33 > 0:01:37SONG: Big Apple by Kajagoogoo
0:01:40 > 0:01:44# See my face You know where I've been
0:01:44 > 0:01:47# Walking in jungle... #
0:01:47 > 0:01:53By the early 1980s, Britain's charts were alive with huge-selling pop acts.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55But they weren't for everyone.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59I suppose you've got to reference the times in the mid-80s when I was
0:01:59 > 0:02:04a teenager. You know, you had all that crafted pop and everything...
0:02:04 > 0:02:08Bizarrely, there was... So much pop music felt so aspirational,
0:02:08 > 0:02:13and that aspiration that was mirrored in shiny '80s pop music
0:02:13 > 0:02:17was such an anathema to the era and place I was growing up in.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21# Give me back my heart
0:02:21 > 0:02:25# That's all I had to give you... #
0:02:25 > 0:02:29We now see the '80s through this slightly rosy lens of nostalgia.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32And nostalgia is a form of curation.
0:02:33 > 0:02:37You cut out the bits you don't like.
0:02:37 > 0:02:39You cut out all the crap bits.
0:02:41 > 0:02:42# Sleep! #
0:02:42 > 0:02:44You had Madonna and Prince, who were interesting.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46# Wave your hands...#
0:02:46 > 0:02:49Everything else that you got or you were going to get on Radio One
0:02:49 > 0:02:51or Top Of The Pops was just crap.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55# Sneeze! Achoo! Achoo! Achoo! Go for a walk... #
0:02:55 > 0:02:58It was just absolute rubbish.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01'At number five, The Reflex, Duran Duran.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04'At four, You Take Me Up, the Thompson Twins.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07'This week's number three, I Want To Break Free by Queen.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10'At number two, Phil Collins, Against All Odds.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13'And this week's number one, the sixth week
0:03:13 > 0:03:16'for Lionel Richie and Hello.'
0:03:16 > 0:03:19So that was one side of the '80s.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21There was an alternative.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25Indie was thriving, if rarely troubling the mainstream pop charts.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28But one band from the scene was about to stage an intervention.
0:03:28 > 0:03:32They would seduce the world with a style, a sound and an attitude that
0:03:32 > 0:03:36felt completely different and yet remained true to their indie roots.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39# I would go out tonight
0:03:39 > 0:03:43# But I haven't got a stitch to wear
0:03:46 > 0:03:49# This man said it's gruesome
0:03:49 > 0:03:52# That someone so handsome Should care... #
0:03:52 > 0:03:54They were so evocative.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57Morrissey's voice and his lyrics are so evocative
0:03:57 > 0:03:59of an era and of a place.
0:03:59 > 0:04:03# This charming man... #
0:04:03 > 0:04:05It was singing about real people, whereas, as we know,
0:04:05 > 0:04:08many pop groups sing aspirational songs.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12They're not singing about where they've come from and that reality,
0:04:12 > 0:04:14and I think that really hits home.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17# A jumped-up country boy... #
0:04:17 > 0:04:20What the Smiths stood for looked totally unlike what was
0:04:20 > 0:04:25happening in mainstream rock
0:04:25 > 0:04:27in '82, '83.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31# He knows so much about these things
0:04:31 > 0:04:35# He knows so much about these things...#
0:04:35 > 0:04:38So they genuinely seemed quite shocking
0:04:38 > 0:04:40if you saw the Smiths on Top Of The Pops.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45I just remember the day after The Smiths' first appearance
0:04:45 > 0:04:48on Top Of The Pops with gladioli
0:04:48 > 0:04:52hanging out of, you know, of Morrissey's arse pocket.
0:04:54 > 0:04:55CHEERING
0:04:55 > 0:04:58He came in and that was kind of like his Sex Pistols moment.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01It was. He was like, "Did you see that last night?"
0:05:01 > 0:05:05And he came with flowers in his front pocket, kind of thing.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07It was massive for Nick, you know?
0:05:07 > 0:05:11Morrissey especially was gigantic for Nick. Just...
0:05:11 > 0:05:14Just actually asking the world to listen
0:05:14 > 0:05:16but not to necessarily like you.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19I remember seeing him doing William, It Was Really Nothing
0:05:19 > 0:05:22round a friend's house, I'd have been 12, and...
0:05:22 > 0:05:25I think he ripped his shirt open, Morrissey,
0:05:25 > 0:05:27and he had "marry me" written on his chest.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32And, you know, that was kind of a weird thing to see.
0:05:32 > 0:05:34# Would you like to marry me?
0:05:34 > 0:05:36# And if you like You can buy the ring
0:05:36 > 0:05:39# She doesn't care About anything... #
0:05:39 > 0:05:42Morrissey had spent about a million years in his own head,
0:05:42 > 0:05:45you know, deciding what this was going to be like
0:05:45 > 0:05:50and how his moment was going to arrive.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54I actually think that the great genius of The Smiths
0:05:54 > 0:05:56was their contradiction.
0:05:56 > 0:06:03They're still full of that Manchester gloom in Morrissey's lyrics,
0:06:03 > 0:06:05you know, his lyrics are morbid, it's bedsit-land,
0:06:05 > 0:06:10it's melancholia, it's dejection, it's all those things,
0:06:10 > 0:06:15but Marr's guitar riffs are incredibly poppy and breezy
0:06:15 > 0:06:20and jangly, and they forged these two things together.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23Yes, I'm somewhat of a back bedroom casualty.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27I spent a great deal of time sitting in the bedroom writing furiously
0:06:27 > 0:06:29and feeling that I was terribly important
0:06:29 > 0:06:32and that everything that I wrote would go down in the...
0:06:32 > 0:06:35Go down in the annals of history or whatever.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38And it's proved to be...quite true.
0:06:41 > 0:06:46The Smiths connected with a wave of young fans all over the UK
0:06:46 > 0:06:50who identified with the band's awkwardness with the world around them.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53# I'm right and you are wrong. #
0:06:53 > 0:06:57It was an outsider spirit that came to epitomise indie music.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02Independent music in the '80s felt like a place where
0:07:02 > 0:07:06people could be safe who felt they were different.
0:07:06 > 0:07:11People who maybe had less distinct ideas about their sexuality
0:07:11 > 0:07:12and their identity.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15A lot of that music, I think, had a feminine side.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18It was a place where awkwardness and shyness
0:07:18 > 0:07:21and gaucheness were celebrated.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24It was another world. It was a place they could call their own.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26It was a place that had its own identity.
0:07:26 > 0:07:30The Smiths showed there was a market for alternative music.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32Their debut album went to number two,
0:07:32 > 0:07:36and a string of hit singles made the top 40.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38They were all released on the Indie label Rough Trade,
0:07:38 > 0:07:42and their success was a turning point for the independent sector.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49We had a ripple effect across...
0:07:49 > 0:07:53It consolidated the development of the distribution network,
0:07:53 > 0:07:55the Cartel.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59And certainly Rough Trade needed a band like that.
0:07:59 > 0:08:01If you can chart something then HMV come and say,
0:08:01 > 0:08:06"Hmm, maybe we should do more ordering from you,
0:08:06 > 0:08:11"cos you convinced us you're professional enough to deal with."
0:08:13 > 0:08:17The Smiths changed everything for independent record labels
0:08:17 > 0:08:22because Rough Trade managed to get The Smiths into HMV,
0:08:22 > 0:08:25and it was the first time that independent records had been
0:08:25 > 0:08:28available in those shops, so that opened up that market for us.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33So The Smiths, in the story of it all, were really, really important.
0:08:33 > 0:08:39And that next step that the indies made into mainstream consciousness.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47APPLAUSE
0:08:48 > 0:08:52Two points there. Morrissey, one for you to identify.
0:08:52 > 0:08:57The Smiths had cracked open the world of indie to a mainstream audience.
0:08:57 > 0:09:02But they had only broken through thanks to their devoted fan base.
0:09:02 > 0:09:03Killing Moon, Echo And The Bunnymen.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05Echo And The Bunnymen.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08Yes, absolutely right. Two points for you, well done.
0:09:08 > 0:09:10Radio wouldn't play them.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12The only reason they had hits was because everybody who liked
0:09:12 > 0:09:15the Smiths bought their record on the first day
0:09:15 > 0:09:18and it went straight in at number five or number eight, whatever,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21and then went straight back out again.
0:09:24 > 0:09:25Let's not mince words.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29In the lifetime of The Smiths, when The Smiths actually existed,
0:09:29 > 0:09:31they were not a mainstream band, really.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35They were a large cult.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39# Move-a, move-a... #
0:09:39 > 0:09:42Two very different worlds were emerging in the 1980s -
0:09:42 > 0:09:45the alternative and the mainstream.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48And you either belonged to one or the other.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54I think it's wonderful to have a band like Dire Straits in the world.
0:09:54 > 0:09:59No, I do, because you say to somebody, "Do you like Dire Straits?"
0:09:59 > 0:10:02And if they say, "Yeah, I think they're really great",
0:10:02 > 0:10:06then you know that they're a stupid git and they want their head shutting in a door.
0:10:06 > 0:10:10If you wanted to find out more about the independent world,
0:10:10 > 0:10:13and indeed hear the records that everybody was talking about,
0:10:13 > 0:10:16pretty much your one stop shop was The John Peel Show,
0:10:16 > 0:10:20and in the early '80s when I first came to Radio One, I used to
0:10:20 > 0:10:24produce Peel Sessions here at the BBC studios at Maida Vale.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30Hello, fans, I'm your effervescent Radio One personality
0:10:30 > 0:10:32and I'm allowed in through the front door.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35You properly heard people talk of John Peel Sessions, in fact,
0:10:35 > 0:10:38you've probably got tapes of one or two of them in your bedroom.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41I got to see first-hand how John Peel fanatically championed
0:10:41 > 0:10:45independent music when nobody else in broadcasting
0:10:45 > 0:10:47really gave it much of a chance.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49This is Mark, he's the producer,
0:10:49 > 0:10:52and this is Mike, the engineer. Highly trained people.
0:10:52 > 0:10:54Nice yellow jumper and mullet combo, there.
0:10:54 > 0:10:55Relax, girls.
0:10:55 > 0:11:00John Peel was the way that you could find out about music.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08Particularly when you were at school when you weren't able to go to gigs
0:11:08 > 0:11:11cos your parents didn't allow you, he was the only way
0:11:11 > 0:11:16to find out about the kind of music that I was excited about.
0:11:16 > 0:11:23# Clear... Clear Clear the ranks... #
0:11:23 > 0:11:27Well, now it is Rob's turn to add the final track, the vocals.
0:11:27 > 0:11:32I don't think John Peel's place in this can be underestimated.
0:11:32 > 0:11:33It was huge.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37He was like a one-man crusade.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39Well, like most records,
0:11:39 > 0:11:42the finished product from the session needs to be built up
0:11:42 > 0:11:46track by track, instrument by instrument, or so I am advised.
0:11:46 > 0:11:50There wasn't anybody else on the radio in the way that he was promoting it.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53- OK, is that it? - What does it sound like?
0:11:53 > 0:11:55It sounded a little bit ragged, that, to me.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57- Do you want to have a listen to it? - Yeah.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00I think everyone from that period will acknowledge that,
0:12:00 > 0:12:05that he played a massive part in the music education of our youth.
0:12:05 > 0:12:09My first band, The Drowning Craze, when we got a Peel Session
0:12:09 > 0:12:12we just thought we had died and gone to heaven.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14It was the best thing ever.
0:12:14 > 0:12:18It felt like we'd really arrived, you know?
0:12:18 > 0:12:21And I think with the Cocteaus it felt the same.
0:12:21 > 0:12:27SONG: Lorelei By Cocteau Twins
0:12:27 > 0:12:29With help from John Peel,
0:12:29 > 0:12:33by the early 1980s a wave of bands started to emerge on independent
0:12:33 > 0:12:38labels, which were fast becoming home to the innovative and experimental.
0:12:38 > 0:12:43SONG: Lorelei By Cocteau Twins
0:12:52 > 0:12:57Formed in 1982, the Cocteau Twins signed to London label 4AD
0:12:57 > 0:12:59and were immediately celebrated
0:12:59 > 0:13:02for their distinctive look and ethereal sound.
0:13:02 > 0:13:04Elizabeth Fraser, what a voice!
0:13:04 > 0:13:07Astonishing technically, characterful, beautiful,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10a unique voice.
0:13:10 > 0:13:15SONG: Aikea-Guinea By Cocteau Twins
0:13:15 > 0:13:19The sound she made was just not like a human being,
0:13:19 > 0:13:24except for it was exactly like a human being, in the same way. It was very beautiful.
0:13:24 > 0:13:28And Robin Guthrie, the kind of lengths he probably went to in the studio,
0:13:28 > 0:13:31creating these atmospheres.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41For me it was just, you know, it was heartbreaking music,
0:13:41 > 0:13:44you know, very beautiful and very emotional.
0:13:44 > 0:13:46So that was the inspiration for me.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51We would just literally go in the studio,
0:13:51 > 0:13:55lock the door, roll up an enormous amount of spliffs
0:13:55 > 0:14:00and smoke ourselves stupid and make music for our own amusement.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03We never, ever thought about an audience. Never.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09SHE SINGS
0:14:09 > 0:14:12One of the beautiful things was, you know, in our relationship
0:14:12 > 0:14:16with the label at that point, we were just left to get on with it.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20And that's a really wonderful thing they gave us, there.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23And I think probably if I've learned anything,
0:14:23 > 0:14:26without realising it, from that period, it's that.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29You've just got to trust the band to get on with it.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38The independent labels were approaching the music industry
0:14:38 > 0:14:40in a completely different way to the majors.
0:14:40 > 0:14:43They weren't driven by the need to deliver hit records,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46and because of this they became the breeding ground
0:14:46 > 0:14:49for some of the UK's most ground-breaking artists.
0:14:49 > 0:14:55SONG: Never Understand By The Jesus And Mary Chain
0:14:55 > 0:14:58# The sun comes up Another day begins
0:14:58 > 0:15:00# And I don't even worry About the state I'm in
0:15:00 > 0:15:03# Head so heavy And I'm looking thin
0:15:03 > 0:15:06# But when the sun goes down I wanna start again... #
0:15:09 > 0:15:11Formed in Scotland in 1983,
0:15:11 > 0:15:15The Jesus And Mary Chain were one of the first acts to sign to
0:15:15 > 0:15:19Alan McGee's fledgling indie label, Creation Records.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21I give them a gig, not expecting anything.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24They were all screaming at each other to the point of, like,
0:15:24 > 0:15:27it was like verging on violence at any moment.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33And I was just thinking, "Fuck. Horrible.
0:15:33 > 0:15:35"Go away and sound check."
0:15:35 > 0:15:38And then they just made this noise and it was fucking amazing.
0:15:40 > 0:15:45They started feeding back.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47I suppose the eternal debate will be,
0:15:47 > 0:15:50did they mean it or was it a fucking fluke? I really don't know.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58Creation put out their first single, Upside Down,
0:15:58 > 0:16:02and it went on to be one of the biggest selling indie records of the 1980s.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05# We're moving round and round
0:16:05 > 0:16:08# Can't hear a single sound... #
0:16:08 > 0:16:10I mean, it wasn't a label the way most people
0:16:10 > 0:16:12think of as a record label.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15There was no offices. There was nothing.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19When Upside Down was released, you know, we would sit there folding
0:16:19 > 0:16:22the little paper covers and putting them into plastic bags.
0:16:22 > 0:16:27Me, William, Douglas, Bobby and Alan, in his spare bedroom, you know what I mean?
0:16:27 > 0:16:30It was not... Glamorous it wasn't.
0:16:30 > 0:16:31But it got the job done.
0:16:31 > 0:16:35I mean, nobody else wanted to put out a Mary Chain record,
0:16:35 > 0:16:38and Alan did, and it was great.
0:16:38 > 0:16:40And it kind of...
0:16:40 > 0:16:42It put both of us on the map, really.
0:16:42 > 0:16:47I think it's fair to say that nobody had heard of Creation before Upside Down.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49They certainly had afterwards, but likewise,
0:16:49 > 0:16:51nobody had heard of the Mary Chain.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54They've been featured in every major music magazine in the country,
0:16:54 > 0:16:56a number of their shows have ended in violence -
0:16:56 > 0:16:58all the essential ingredients for success.
0:16:58 > 0:17:02- Why are people so excited about you? - Because we're so good.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05Because we're so much better than everybody else.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08Because so many other people are complete rubbish.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12People have got to pay attention to us. It's pretty obvious, really.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15Their live shows could be as violent as their feedback,
0:17:15 > 0:17:18sometimes ending in rioting.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20Bobby Gillespie always says this to me -
0:17:20 > 0:17:25"one of your greatest statements, McGee, this is truly art as terrorism."
0:17:25 > 0:17:27They were charging people ten quid to get into
0:17:27 > 0:17:30the North London Poly, and playing for 15 minutes.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33But they were so pissed and went on so late they couldn't even play,
0:17:33 > 0:17:36so it was like, you know... So no wonder there was a riot.
0:17:36 > 0:17:41All of those gigs were done pissed and then some.
0:17:41 > 0:17:46Yeah, I'm painfully shy, and the only way that I could get through,
0:17:46 > 0:17:50certainly those early years, was to be permanently drunk.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53What was great about the Mary Chain is they were just anti-everything.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56They were nothing to do with the pop culture of the time
0:17:56 > 0:17:59which was Kajagoogoo and Spandau Ballet and Duran Duran.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01They were anti-all that.
0:18:01 > 0:18:05- What do you know about The Jesus And Mary Chain?- The next big thing. They're flavour of the month.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07- Flavour of the month? - They're damn noisy!
0:18:07 > 0:18:09All the press... All the press say so.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12- What's so good about them? - They're noisy!
0:18:12 > 0:18:15The resulting press attention turned them into
0:18:15 > 0:18:19one of the biggest bands on the independent scene.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23There is a recording of a gig The Jesus And Mary Chain did at The Ambulance Station in London
0:18:23 > 0:18:27in late 1984, and around that point they'd been getting
0:18:27 > 0:18:31a lot of really overheated press, very overexcited press.
0:18:31 > 0:18:35The NME have said they're the best band in ten years or something like that.
0:18:35 > 0:18:40One person heckles, one person goes, "Best band in ten years."
0:18:40 > 0:18:45And Jim Reid's response is just...
0:18:45 > 0:18:48I've just never had anything like it. He goes...
0:19:07 > 0:19:10You don't talk to your audience like that.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13When you're a band on the rise, that's...
0:19:13 > 0:19:16You know, you just can't imagine a band doing that now.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19And they weren't even going down badly, you know?
0:19:25 > 0:19:28The Jesus And Mary Chain might be an extreme example,
0:19:28 > 0:19:34but in the 1980s the independent music scene was all about being different.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38And here in Manchester on a grimy, unprepossessing corner,
0:19:38 > 0:19:42one independent label applied that philosophy to everything they did.
0:19:48 > 0:19:55'Factory records - a partnership, a business, a joke.'
0:19:55 > 0:20:00Factory was run by scrupulously clean TV presenter Tony Wilson,
0:20:00 > 0:20:01who put his passion for releasing
0:20:01 > 0:20:04new and alternative music before anything else.
0:20:04 > 0:20:06- Right! - SHE LAUGHS
0:20:06 > 0:20:10Can you tell me briefly about Factory Records?
0:20:10 > 0:20:14You see, the record business functions by securing
0:20:14 > 0:20:16your investment, which is to secure your talent.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19So you sign people for seven-year deals and stuff.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22But we're only doing this for fun.
0:20:22 > 0:20:27Tony believed his own press and became a music business mogul,
0:20:27 > 0:20:29but he wasn't at heart.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33Because he wasn't... He wasn't bothered, even at the end,
0:20:33 > 0:20:35he wasn't bothered about money.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38"We'll get some from somewhere else, it's OK.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40"Don't worry about it", you know?
0:20:40 > 0:20:44Well, I'm a bit disturbed by the man who's in charge of our destiny.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47I want to know, do you know what you're doing?
0:20:47 > 0:20:50- LAUGHTER - Nice one!
0:20:50 > 0:20:54- Hooray!- Do you really know what you're doing?
0:20:54 > 0:20:57From minute to minute, I know what I want.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01- It might change. - That's no good to us, is it?
0:21:06 > 0:21:12Factory was to some extent a kind of playpen of indulgence.
0:21:12 > 0:21:13It was an art project.
0:21:15 > 0:21:18I mean, I think you could nominate Factory Records these days
0:21:18 > 0:21:19for the Turner Prize.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22Factory, without a doubt, was an art project.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29Factory gave its artists the opportunity to realise
0:21:29 > 0:21:31extravagant and unusual concepts,
0:21:31 > 0:21:34and one band who benefited from this was New Order.
0:21:38 > 0:21:42In the early 1980s, after the suicide of Ian Curtis,
0:21:42 > 0:21:46the remaining members of Joy Division became New Order and were
0:21:46 > 0:21:50initially criticised for sounding too similar to their former band.
0:21:53 > 0:21:56So Tony Wilson sent them into the studio and gave them
0:21:56 > 0:21:58time to develop a new sound.
0:21:58 > 0:22:01He thought we were musicians who would go into the studio
0:22:01 > 0:22:03and write songs.
0:22:03 > 0:22:08He put us in a studio for a few days, and
0:22:08 > 0:22:12he would say, "you bang something out, at least one hit."
0:22:12 > 0:22:16All we did was just went through all the presets on a synthesiser.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18- Ding ding ding. Ding ding ding. - Just doodling!
0:22:18 > 0:22:20"What do you think of this?"
0:22:21 > 0:22:22"Got anything else?"
0:22:22 > 0:22:28MUSIC: Blue Monday by New Order
0:22:31 > 0:22:34Eventually they came up with Blue Monday,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37a record that not only sold over three million copies,
0:22:37 > 0:22:40but one that would have an immeasurable influence in both
0:22:40 > 0:22:44the evolution of electronic dance music and graphic design.
0:22:46 > 0:22:49# I see a ship in the harbour
0:22:49 > 0:22:52# I can and shall obey
0:22:52 > 0:22:56# But if it wasn't for your misfortune
0:22:56 > 0:22:59# I'd be a heavenly person today... #
0:22:59 > 0:23:04This cultural landmark could only have come from an independent record label.
0:23:06 > 0:23:09A major record label would never release Blue Monday,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11it is a seven minute long single.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14I mean, seven minute long singles are not played on the radio
0:23:14 > 0:23:17so not released. End of.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20It's a seven minute long single, which is not on the album.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24Who would...? Why would anybody release that?
0:23:24 > 0:23:26Why would anybody want to do that?
0:23:27 > 0:23:32And nor would a record company release a product
0:23:32 > 0:23:35with nothing written on it. Nothing at all.
0:23:37 > 0:23:42And yes, it was expensive. But nobody asked. OK?
0:23:42 > 0:23:44There wasn't...
0:23:44 > 0:23:48There wasn't an accurate enough system within the company to cost things.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51Of course, had that been with a formal record company
0:23:51 > 0:23:55I would have taken it into the director of production who would
0:23:55 > 0:23:57have said immediately "what planet are you on?
0:23:57 > 0:23:59"This is more expensive than an album cover.
0:23:59 > 0:24:04"We do not have the margin in single sales to accommodate this kind of packaging. Take it away."
0:24:04 > 0:24:08This is the famous sleeve to Blue Monday,
0:24:08 > 0:24:11one of Peter Saville's classic and distinctive designs that gave
0:24:11 > 0:24:15Factory's records a look that the majors could only dream of.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17And it was phenomenally expensive.
0:24:17 > 0:24:22Apparently it was something to do with having to individually
0:24:22 > 0:24:24cut out all these indentations here,
0:24:24 > 0:24:27and so that wasn't part of the standard process.
0:24:27 > 0:24:28Or something like that.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31Anyway, the more they sold, the more money they lost,
0:24:31 > 0:24:32or so the story goes.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39Blue Monday was just one of a series of innovative record sleeves
0:24:39 > 0:24:43designed by Peter Saville that gave Factory a distinct identity.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48Independent labels didn't allow profit to
0:24:48 > 0:24:50get in the way of creativity.
0:24:50 > 0:24:54It might have made no financial sense, but inventive packaging
0:24:54 > 0:24:59set the indies apart from the majors, and appealed directly to the fans.
0:24:59 > 0:25:04I was fanatical about the ethos of the label.
0:25:04 > 0:25:08It was artistic as well, if you look at the sleeve, the artwork.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11I know it sounds an odd thing to say, but it was beautiful
0:25:11 > 0:25:13and it was definitely worth collecting, as well.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15I do like my art, as well.
0:25:15 > 0:25:19So there's no reason why... What Saville was producing at that time was special stuff.
0:25:19 > 0:25:24I mean, I can remember the day, picking up a 12" single
0:25:24 > 0:25:26and looking at it, thinking, "That is beautiful.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30"I don't care what this thing sounds like, I'm going to love it anyway!"
0:25:33 > 0:25:37Things like the artwork, it is very specific, with The Smiths,
0:25:37 > 0:25:40New Order and the Cocteau Twins, the whole 4AD thing,
0:25:40 > 0:25:42they had this collection of artwork.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45The Smiths obviously had this series.
0:25:45 > 0:25:47With New Order you had Peter Saville.
0:25:47 > 0:25:50And with each of these things,
0:25:50 > 0:25:54that drew me into a world that made you think when you were
0:25:54 > 0:25:56listening to the record...
0:25:56 > 0:26:00It made you think of that sleeve.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03That was what was a really strong thing about it for me,
0:26:03 > 0:26:05that when I listened to the music I thought of
0:26:05 > 0:26:09the colours of the record, because of the sleeves.
0:26:09 > 0:26:13Part of that idea of going back to the idea of independence and being
0:26:13 > 0:26:17alternative and going against the grain is doing things differently,
0:26:17 > 0:26:19and exploring and experimenting.
0:26:19 > 0:26:23I think what's crucial was the time we were given on this.
0:26:23 > 0:26:26You got time to work on it, you got time to think about it,
0:26:26 > 0:26:28you got time to put everything into it.
0:26:28 > 0:26:30So it would go beyond a front sleeve.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33It had to work with the back sleeve, it had to work with...
0:26:33 > 0:26:35Everything a homogeneous feel to it.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38Work with the inner bag, take out the bit of sexy black vinyl
0:26:38 > 0:26:41and you've got a lovely label on it, it's complete.
0:26:41 > 0:26:46Now, few designers were afforded that luxury of time.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49I might have two months to work on it.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53So you can see it wasn't commercially led at 4AD at all.
0:26:54 > 0:26:59You know, one of the great legacies of the independent scene is
0:26:59 > 0:27:03that sense of authenticity.
0:27:03 > 0:27:11A reinjection of authenticity into pop culture, youth culture.
0:27:12 > 0:27:15APPLAUSE
0:27:15 > 0:27:19SONG: All Day Long by Shop Assistants
0:27:23 > 0:27:27# All day long we walked about And all day long you talked about her
0:27:27 > 0:27:31# I can see I'll never make you stay... #
0:27:31 > 0:27:35The independent music scene was providing an integrity
0:27:35 > 0:27:38that its fans thought the pop world wasn't delivering,
0:27:38 > 0:27:41and by the mid-1980s it wasn't just the leading independent labels
0:27:41 > 0:27:46they were turning to to provide this fix of authenticity.
0:27:46 > 0:27:48Dozens of little indie labels sprang up,
0:27:48 > 0:27:52putting out record by bands that the major labels would never have signed.
0:27:54 > 0:27:58Groups like Half Man Half Biscuit.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02SONG: The Trumpton Riots by Half Man Half Biscuit
0:28:02 > 0:28:05# There's gonna be a riot down in Trumpton tonight. #
0:28:07 > 0:28:12So there was definitely a kind of indie scene that lay below
0:28:12 > 0:28:16the bands that were properly popular, like the Cocteau Twins
0:28:16 > 0:28:20and The Smiths and latterly The Jesus And Mary Chain.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23# She's always somehow Coming through
0:28:23 > 0:28:27# Acting tough like nothing else...#
0:28:29 > 0:28:33It was much more bottom-up, ground level.
0:28:33 > 0:28:38You could be quite successful in your own little way with
0:28:38 > 0:28:40very little by way of radio play.
0:28:40 > 0:28:42And there was only ever going to be John Peel anyway.
0:28:42 > 0:28:45Here's music-loving John Peel.
0:28:45 > 0:28:47Thanks very much, Peter.
0:28:47 > 0:28:50Part of our jobs as disc jockeys is listing for new bands with
0:28:50 > 0:28:52which to thrill our audiences,
0:28:52 > 0:28:54and to help with this I rely on a wide assortment of magazines.
0:28:54 > 0:28:57There aren't nearly as many independently produced fanzines
0:28:57 > 0:28:59as there were in the late 1970s,
0:28:59 > 0:29:01but they still come in at a fairly impressive rate.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04This week there's been Deadbeat from Edinburgh...
0:29:04 > 0:29:08It was very important to read fanzines first
0:29:08 > 0:29:11because it was the way of finding out about new bands.
0:29:14 > 0:29:18And you could start getting a network of people that you would
0:29:18 > 0:29:20know, and if you got there fanzine you'd think,
0:29:20 > 0:29:23"Hang on, maybe I can do this and maybe I can sell through that
0:29:23 > 0:29:25"person and go to the record shop and sell it through there."
0:29:25 > 0:29:28So fanzine culture seemed very much part of it.
0:29:31 > 0:29:37The aesthetic of them was basically hand done, typewritten,
0:29:37 > 0:29:40lots of scribbles, bright colours.
0:29:40 > 0:29:43It was also, for the people who wrote them,
0:29:43 > 0:29:45a great way to meet people,
0:29:45 > 0:29:49because you would turn up to gigs, you wouldn't necessarily know anyone,
0:29:49 > 0:29:51but you could go up to anyone you wanted to and say,
0:29:51 > 0:29:54"Excuse me, would you like to buy a fanzine, 30p?"
0:29:54 > 0:29:56And then you'd strike up a conversation
0:29:56 > 0:30:00cos they'd say, "Oh, look! It's got the Razorcuts in it."
0:30:00 > 0:30:04And then you'd have a chat about why you've got the Razorcuts.
0:30:04 > 0:30:09# Across the space that separates
0:30:09 > 0:30:14# Your social world from mine... #
0:30:14 > 0:30:18Through these fanzines you'd discover the latest indie bands
0:30:18 > 0:30:20and where you could get their 7" single.
0:30:22 > 0:30:25Collecting records became a part of your life.
0:30:27 > 0:30:31I'm not even sure how many 7"s I have, but an awful lot.
0:30:31 > 0:30:37And this was the favoured form of music, really, for indie music,
0:30:37 > 0:30:40because it was a blast of pop.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43These are some of mine.
0:30:43 > 0:30:46Subway, The Flatmates... This was actually by The Pastels.
0:30:46 > 0:30:50It was the one that probably first got me into Creation
0:30:50 > 0:30:52when I heard it on John Peel.
0:30:55 > 0:30:57Age Of Chance. Slamming.
0:30:57 > 0:31:01Political, arch, aggressive, wore cycling gear.
0:31:01 > 0:31:03Ahead of their time.
0:31:03 > 0:31:05Meat Whiplash is a good example. They were on Creation.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08They, as far as I know, just did this one single.
0:31:08 > 0:31:12It's a brilliant single. Don't know much about them at all.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15And then you had The Weather Prophets, Pete Astor that was in The Loft.
0:31:15 > 0:31:17The Loft - Up The Hill And Down The Slope,
0:31:17 > 0:31:19one of the best indie singles of all time.
0:31:19 > 0:31:22Then he formed The Weather Prophets, probably one of the...
0:31:22 > 0:31:25One of the best guitar groups that never sold a million records.
0:31:25 > 0:31:27They were absolutely amazing.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30# Down by the shoreline With my back to the land
0:31:30 > 0:31:34# I felt my feet sink down in the sand...#
0:31:34 > 0:31:37Of course there's a badge of honour that comes along with buying
0:31:37 > 0:31:39indie obscure records.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42I think the thrilling thing about our school days was there was
0:31:42 > 0:31:44nobody into this music except us.
0:31:44 > 0:31:48You know, and we didn't even really feel the need to share our love
0:31:48 > 0:31:50of this music with anybody in our school.
0:31:50 > 0:31:52It was such a private, elite club.
0:31:55 > 0:31:57And like any youth movement,
0:31:57 > 0:32:00you identified with each other through your clothes.
0:32:00 > 0:32:03The '80s saw the rise of the indie kid.
0:32:03 > 0:32:05There were tribes when I was growing up.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08The person who sat next to me at school or in the row behind,
0:32:08 > 0:32:13what he wore, his haircut, all that stuff defined his music,
0:32:13 > 0:32:16and told me everything about him and whether I needed to speak to him.
0:32:16 > 0:32:18And it was as simple as that.
0:32:18 > 0:32:21And I found that really easy, the world was easy to work out.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25It meant that I didn't actually talk to anyone, as the down side.
0:32:27 > 0:32:31Actually, though, I dyed all my clothes black.
0:32:31 > 0:32:33You can get a dye which you put in the washing machine which was
0:32:33 > 0:32:35sort of black but dyed everything grey,
0:32:35 > 0:32:37and it just went in, ruined all the clothes
0:32:37 > 0:32:40for about six washes afterwards,
0:32:40 > 0:32:43but I went into black, looking like Jim Reid.
0:32:43 > 0:32:45Not sounding or acting very much like Jim Reid,
0:32:45 > 0:32:47but really trying to take that on.
0:32:51 > 0:32:52The indie uniform of the mid-80s
0:32:52 > 0:32:55was the opposite of, kind of, power dressing.
0:32:55 > 0:32:59You know, you think of the mid-80s, it's sort of
0:32:59 > 0:33:04big shoulder pads, and men in big suits.
0:33:04 > 0:33:08And this was kind of dress down, charity shop.
0:33:08 > 0:33:10Cardigans, anoraks.
0:33:13 > 0:33:16You just sort of looked hopeless.
0:33:19 > 0:33:25And that shambling look became associated with a movement known as C86.
0:33:25 > 0:33:30Now, originally it was a compilation cassette given away with the NME.
0:33:30 > 0:33:34There you go - "Tape offer! The class of '86."
0:33:35 > 0:33:38It was almost like a little rebirth of indie.
0:33:38 > 0:33:40It was given another little push and a shove.
0:33:40 > 0:33:42And, you know, it definitely gave you hope that,
0:33:42 > 0:33:45"We're going to do our own single, we can do it."
0:33:48 > 0:33:50For me, it feels like the golden age of indie,
0:33:50 > 0:33:54and it's a really trite, you know, thing to say.
0:33:54 > 0:33:57But looking back at it and talking about it, it feels like it.
0:34:02 > 0:34:07C86 ended up as a sort of catchall term for a particular
0:34:07 > 0:34:08type of indie music.
0:34:08 > 0:34:11It was all jangling guitars, amateurish playing
0:34:11 > 0:34:13and fey affectations.
0:34:13 > 0:34:18# Every day she wakes up
0:34:20 > 0:34:25# Her life will be a movie...#
0:34:25 > 0:34:27Its fans were called cuties,
0:34:27 > 0:34:31and the music was criticised for sounding twee and shambling.
0:34:31 > 0:34:35Talulah Gosh was one of the movement's leading bands.
0:34:35 > 0:34:37I didn't actually mind shambling,
0:34:37 > 0:34:40cos I kind of thought we were shambling, in that we...
0:34:40 > 0:34:43No-one quite knew what they were doing, and it did shamble.
0:34:43 > 0:34:46We stopped an awful lot of songs halfway through
0:34:46 > 0:34:47and had to start again.
0:34:50 > 0:34:56We didn't like twee because I just don't think
0:34:56 > 0:35:00we felt we were twee, and also it was derogatory.
0:35:00 > 0:35:04Now it's been reclaimed as a kind of good term,
0:35:04 > 0:35:07but at the time it felt really derogatory.
0:35:07 > 0:35:09"Those bands, they're so twee. Ugh!"
0:35:09 > 0:35:11It was almost the opposite of rock.
0:35:11 > 0:35:15I thought it was rubbish. I thought C86 was total garbage.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19I hated it, to be honest. I don't know what it reminded me of.
0:35:19 > 0:35:20It was just so wet.
0:35:20 > 0:35:26But despite its detractors, the C86 scene had built up quite a following.
0:35:26 > 0:35:28Some critics called it the birth of indie pop,
0:35:28 > 0:35:31and this made the major labels pay attention.
0:35:31 > 0:35:35I think the record labels realised that potentially you could
0:35:35 > 0:35:37make a lot of money out of indie music,
0:35:37 > 0:35:40cos they had seen it with The Smiths being successful.
0:35:40 > 0:35:44And so they had A&R people scout indie stuff,
0:35:44 > 0:35:46you know, quite consciously.
0:35:46 > 0:35:51# You can't stop my heart From turning inside out... #
0:35:51 > 0:35:55Major record companies began signing up bands from independent
0:35:55 > 0:35:59labels, like the C86 group The Mighty Lemon Drops, who left
0:35:59 > 0:36:01Dreamworld Records for Chrysalis.
0:36:02 > 0:36:06For the artists it posed something of an ethical dilemma.
0:36:06 > 0:36:08Did you sign to an independent label
0:36:08 > 0:36:12and stay true to the indie philosophy, or did you sell out
0:36:12 > 0:36:16to the major and hope their financial clout could make you a rock star?
0:36:17 > 0:36:21I had this notion, I suppose, in the '80s, that my music, you know,
0:36:21 > 0:36:24MY bands, were the ones that would stay underground.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28It never occurred to me that they would want to sell a record.
0:36:28 > 0:36:32It never occurred to me they would want to be a chart band,
0:36:32 > 0:36:35that they would want to rule the world or do the other things
0:36:35 > 0:36:37that most rock and roll bands...
0:36:37 > 0:36:40In my mind I had this relationship with that kind of music,
0:36:40 > 0:36:42that they were strictly underground.
0:36:42 > 0:36:47Good evening and welcome to another exciting, enthralling Top Of The Pops with me and him.
0:36:47 > 0:36:48Thank you!
0:36:48 > 0:36:53And for openers, The Jesus And Mary Chain, brilliant song, April Skies.
0:36:53 > 0:36:55CHEERING
0:36:55 > 0:36:58MUSIC: April Skies by Jesus and Mary Chain
0:36:58 > 0:37:00# Hey honey, what you trying to say?
0:37:02 > 0:37:04# As I stand here, don't you walk away
0:37:06 > 0:37:09# And the world comes tumbling down
0:37:14 > 0:37:17# Hand in hand in a violent life
0:37:18 > 0:37:21# Making love on the edge of a knife
0:37:22 > 0:37:26# And the world comes tumbling down. #
0:37:27 > 0:37:31'The indie scene was very important in the '80s,
0:37:31 > 0:37:32'but there was a lot of...
0:37:33 > 0:37:37'..there was a lot of, like, aiming too low about it.
0:37:37 > 0:37:39'We kind of felt'
0:37:39 > 0:37:41pretty good about what we were doing.
0:37:41 > 0:37:43And we wanted to take it as far as we could.
0:37:43 > 0:37:45And we wanted to be on Top Of The Pops.
0:37:45 > 0:37:48The whole kind of punk thing, where nobody wanted to be
0:37:48 > 0:37:52on Top Of The Pops, we couldn't get that at all.
0:37:52 > 0:37:54MUSIC: Somewhere In My Heart by Aztec Camera
0:37:58 > 0:38:01# Summer in the city where the air is still
0:38:01 > 0:38:05# A baby being born to the overkill
0:38:05 > 0:38:08# Well, who cares what people say?
0:38:08 > 0:38:10# We walk down love's motorway. #
0:38:10 > 0:38:12'But when bands, like Aztec Camera,
0:38:12 > 0:38:16'were lured away from their indie label home by a major record company,
0:38:16 > 0:38:19'some fans found it affected their music.'
0:38:19 > 0:38:21# But somewhere in my heart
0:38:21 > 0:38:25# There is a star that shines for you. #
0:38:25 > 0:38:27So a major label signs an indie band,
0:38:27 > 0:38:30throws money at them, puts them in a studio with a producer,
0:38:30 > 0:38:34a big producer, erm...
0:38:34 > 0:38:36There was no middle ground that could be found
0:38:36 > 0:38:39between those two sounds. They ended up sounding, you know,
0:38:39 > 0:38:41getting that kind of mid-80s rock sound grafted onto them
0:38:41 > 0:38:44and lost loads of the stuff that had been charming about them
0:38:44 > 0:38:47and interesting about their sound in the first place.
0:38:47 > 0:38:49MUSIC: Some Candy Talking by the Jesus and Mary Chain
0:38:49 > 0:38:51# I'm going down to the place tonight
0:38:51 > 0:38:56# The damp and hungry place tonight. #
0:38:56 > 0:38:59When The Jesus and Mary Chain left indie Creation for Warner's,
0:38:59 > 0:39:02they discovered the major label had a very different approach
0:39:02 > 0:39:05to running a business.
0:39:05 > 0:39:09'I wish we wouldn't have signed to Warner Brothers records.'
0:39:09 > 0:39:12It was the biggest mistake we made.
0:39:12 > 0:39:14# For a young heart to take, cos hearts... #
0:39:14 > 0:39:18'Nobody really understood what we were about.
0:39:18 > 0:39:20'It was a constant struggle to get anything done.
0:39:20 > 0:39:25'It was like we spoke a different language from those people.'
0:39:25 > 0:39:29We used to go into these marketing meetings and it was like...
0:39:29 > 0:39:31you know, mid 1980s.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34It would be a bunch of guys sitting in a room with, like...
0:39:34 > 0:39:37powder blue Armani suits with the sleeves rolled up
0:39:37 > 0:39:40and sort of blond streaked hairdos
0:39:40 > 0:39:42and all of that. Sitting around, like,
0:39:42 > 0:39:44- "Yeah, come on, tell me about it." - HE CLICKS
0:39:44 > 0:39:47And it would be...it would be like you'd walked onto the set
0:39:47 > 0:39:50of Miami Vice or something like that.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53I remember sort of having a...
0:39:53 > 0:39:56a discussion about Psycho Candy to people at Warner's
0:39:56 > 0:40:00and I had to end up saying, "Look, I know you think it's shit.
0:40:00 > 0:40:03"But just put it out and you'll see, people will buy it."
0:40:03 > 0:40:04- And they're like... - HE SIGHS
0:40:04 > 0:40:07"God, you guys are such losers", you know? That was it.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10# Some candy talking. #
0:40:10 > 0:40:13Psycho Candy did eventually shift thousands of copies
0:40:13 > 0:40:17and it went on to be one of the '80s' most acclaimed indie albums.
0:40:17 > 0:40:20Even though it came out on a major.
0:40:20 > 0:40:21As the decade moved on,
0:40:21 > 0:40:24the definition of indie was becoming blurred.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27Was it guitar music or the label you were on?
0:40:27 > 0:40:29MUSIC: Never Gonna Give You Up by Rick Astley
0:40:29 > 0:40:32Complicating matters even further were producers and songwriters
0:40:32 > 0:40:34Stock, Aitken and Waterman.
0:40:34 > 0:40:38In 1987, Pete Waterman launched his own label,
0:40:38 > 0:40:41PWL, to release all their records.
0:40:41 > 0:40:45# We're no strangers to love
0:40:45 > 0:40:49# You know the rules and so do I. #
0:40:49 > 0:40:52They would eventually sell over 500 million units,
0:40:52 > 0:40:55beating the majors at their own game,
0:40:55 > 0:40:58with number one hits from artists like Rick Astley.
0:40:58 > 0:41:00# Never gonna give you up. #
0:41:00 > 0:41:03You'd struggle to hear any guitars on a PWL record,
0:41:03 > 0:41:06but, because of their independent status,
0:41:06 > 0:41:08they qualified for the indie charts.
0:41:08 > 0:41:10# Never gonna say goodbye. #
0:41:10 > 0:41:13And the rest of the industry didn't like it.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16We dominated that chart and they knew they couldn't...
0:41:16 > 0:41:19If we put a Kylie record out, or a Jason record,
0:41:19 > 0:41:22they couldn't put a record out for five or six or seven weeks.
0:41:22 > 0:41:26Because it would just... Their records lost.
0:41:26 > 0:41:28MUSIC: I Heard A Rumour by Bananarama
0:41:31 > 0:41:33As an indie purist, which I was at the time,
0:41:33 > 0:41:36to me, that stuff was a blot on the landscape.
0:41:36 > 0:41:39And you'd see Kylie and Jason and stuff and you'd think, "Oh, come on. That's not...
0:41:39 > 0:41:41"That's not right, they shouldn't be there."
0:41:41 > 0:41:44Kylie Minogue, she's up to 16, with I Should Be So Lucky,
0:41:44 > 0:41:46filmed specially for Top Of The Pops.
0:41:46 > 0:41:47CHEERING
0:41:47 > 0:41:49According to Waterman, the independent sector tried to have
0:41:49 > 0:41:53Stock, Aitken and Waterman ejected from the indie charts.
0:41:54 > 0:41:58Some independents were more ruthless
0:41:58 > 0:42:01than the major record companies.
0:42:01 > 0:42:02By far and away.
0:42:02 > 0:42:07To the point where, obviously, we were the biggest problem they'd got.
0:42:07 > 0:42:11They banned PWL records from the independent chart.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15Only to be told that they couldn't, because, under European law,
0:42:15 > 0:42:17because of what the word "independent" meant,
0:42:17 > 0:42:19they had no choice. They had to put us in,
0:42:19 > 0:42:22as an independent record company.
0:42:22 > 0:42:23That's what we were.
0:42:23 > 0:42:25# I should be so lucky
0:42:25 > 0:42:27# So lucky
0:42:27 > 0:42:29# I should be so lucky. #
0:42:29 > 0:42:31Aesthetically and philosophically,
0:42:31 > 0:42:34you could say that
0:42:34 > 0:42:37PWL had as much right to be there as anyone else.
0:42:37 > 0:42:40Geoff Travis or Tony Wilson, at the time, would probably have
0:42:40 > 0:42:42been horrified if you told them,
0:42:42 > 0:42:44"You're running your record company exactly the same way
0:42:44 > 0:42:47"as Pete Waterman is running his."
0:42:47 > 0:42:50But they were. But Pete was running his far more successfully.
0:42:50 > 0:42:52Cos he wanted to make lots of money.
0:42:52 > 0:42:55Independent music, for me, is when you're independent.
0:42:55 > 0:42:58I mean, literally, it's not about the music,
0:42:58 > 0:43:02it's about the state of the company, what your state of mind is.
0:43:02 > 0:43:05One of our biggest hits was...
0:43:06 > 0:43:09..actually written about our attitude to the record industry.
0:43:09 > 0:43:12You can love us, you can hate us. You ain't ever going to change us.
0:43:12 > 0:43:15Cos we ain't ever going to be respectable.
0:43:15 > 0:43:16That went on to be number one.
0:43:16 > 0:43:20# Take or leave us, only please believe us
0:43:20 > 0:43:24# We ain't ever gonna be respectable. #
0:43:24 > 0:43:26The indie sector might have hated Pete Waterman,
0:43:26 > 0:43:31but he'd be instrumental in where independent music went next.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36Hello. I'm Bill Drummond. I sometimes call myself King Boy D.
0:43:36 > 0:43:40- And...- I'm Rockman and that's what I'm going to be called today.
0:43:40 > 0:43:42And we're the Justified Ancients of Mu Mu.
0:43:45 > 0:43:49For it was the Coventry pop svengali who showed Bill Drummond
0:43:49 > 0:43:51and Jimmy Cauty how to make a number one record.
0:43:53 > 0:43:55They would form The KLF,
0:43:55 > 0:43:59the most successful UK independent singles band of the 1980s.
0:44:01 > 0:44:03The pair met whilst they were working
0:44:03 > 0:44:06at the Stock, Aitken and Waterman studios.
0:44:06 > 0:44:09We spent hours with those guys, while they were,
0:44:09 > 0:44:12you know, navel gazing.
0:44:12 > 0:44:16And we taught them to stop...stop bloody talking.
0:44:16 > 0:44:18And focus, you know, focus on it.
0:44:18 > 0:44:20We've got to find a bass drum beat on this record here
0:44:20 > 0:44:22that we can sample, then clean up.
0:44:22 > 0:44:24BASS DRUM BEAT
0:44:26 > 0:44:30We had to get to the chorus, to the idea and not waffle.
0:44:30 > 0:44:31ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYS
0:44:31 > 0:44:34Can you hear the bass drum? Boom, boom, boom, boom.
0:44:34 > 0:44:37We can't use it from that bit, cos there's too many other instruments.
0:44:37 > 0:44:39We've got to find a bit where it's just the bass drum.
0:44:39 > 0:44:41Usually at the beginning of the song.
0:44:41 > 0:44:42DRUM BEAT PLAYS
0:44:42 > 0:44:45Bill and Jimmy saw first hand how million-selling records
0:44:45 > 0:44:50were produced on a budget, using new, cheap computer technology
0:44:50 > 0:44:53that was completely changing how music was being created.
0:44:53 > 0:44:55The scientists over in Japan in the past few years,
0:44:55 > 0:44:59have been coming up with all of this. All the stuff we're using.
0:44:59 > 0:45:01808, what's this, 808? This is the 909 drum machine.
0:45:01 > 0:45:03MUSIC: Doctorin' the Tardis by The KLF
0:45:03 > 0:45:06# Dr Who! Hey! The Tardis
0:45:06 > 0:45:07# Dr Who! Hey! #
0:45:07 > 0:45:11They built their own studio in a squat in Stockwell and then,
0:45:11 > 0:45:14in true indie fashion, they had a go at writing their own hit record.
0:45:16 > 0:45:17# Dr Who #
0:45:19 > 0:45:20# Exterminate! #
0:45:20 > 0:45:22They came up with Doctorin' The Tardis
0:45:22 > 0:45:25and released it under the name The Timelords.
0:45:25 > 0:45:28By June 1988, it was number one.
0:45:28 > 0:45:31DOCTOR WHO THEME PLAYS
0:45:44 > 0:45:47# Dr Who! Hey!
0:45:47 > 0:45:48# Dr Who!
0:45:48 > 0:45:50# Dr Who! Hey!
0:45:50 > 0:45:52# The Tardis. #
0:45:52 > 0:45:55Doctorin' The Tardis was produced by Jimmy and Bill
0:45:55 > 0:45:58and released on their own label, KLF Communications.
0:45:58 > 0:46:00It might have been a novelty dance record,
0:46:00 > 0:46:04but it had the DIY independent ethos right at its heart.
0:46:04 > 0:46:05# Who-ha! #
0:46:05 > 0:46:07It was an indie spirit forged in the early part
0:46:07 > 0:46:10of Bill Drummond's career, when, in the late '70s,
0:46:10 > 0:46:13he founded the seminal record label Zoo,
0:46:13 > 0:46:16home to the likes of Echo and the Bunnymen and Teardrop Explodes,
0:46:16 > 0:46:19who all played here at Eric's.
0:46:19 > 0:46:22But by the mid-80s, he'd left the indie world behind.
0:46:22 > 0:46:24And he was working for the enemy -
0:46:24 > 0:46:26the major label Warner's.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37It took us all by surprise.
0:46:37 > 0:46:42By this time, Bill had become a record company executive,
0:46:42 > 0:46:47a despised record company executive, really.
0:46:47 > 0:46:51In many ways, that's how we viewed them,
0:46:51 > 0:46:53as "A & arseholes".
0:46:53 > 0:46:58I don't suppose you're allowed to say that on BBC, are you?
0:46:58 > 0:47:00Bloody A & arseholes!
0:47:00 > 0:47:05KLF, to me, is Bill getting really fed up
0:47:05 > 0:47:07of being an A&R man.
0:47:07 > 0:47:09You know, it seemed like a good idea at the time,
0:47:09 > 0:47:11to take that wage from Warner Brothers,
0:47:11 > 0:47:15but it's really, really making me boil
0:47:15 > 0:47:17and I'm ready to go.
0:47:17 > 0:47:21So KLF was the kind of end result of all that.
0:47:21 > 0:47:24And he threw himself in there, 100%.
0:47:24 > 0:47:27# KLF, uh-huh, uh-huh
0:47:27 > 0:47:29# Uh-huh, uh huh
0:47:29 > 0:47:31BEEPING
0:47:31 > 0:47:33# KLF is gonna rock ya!
0:47:33 > 0:47:37# Are you ready? Ancients of Mu Mu
0:47:37 > 0:47:40# Here we go Ancients of Mu Mu
0:47:40 > 0:47:41# KLF is gonna rock ya!
0:47:41 > 0:47:42# Are you ready?
0:47:42 > 0:47:45# Ancients of Mu Mu Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh
0:47:45 > 0:47:47# KLF, KLF is gonna rock ya!
0:47:47 > 0:47:49# KLF! #
0:47:49 > 0:47:51Over the next few years,
0:47:51 > 0:47:53Bill and Jimmy would release records as The KLF.
0:47:53 > 0:47:58With another number one, five more top tens, and a smash hit in America,
0:47:58 > 0:48:00for an 18-month period,
0:48:00 > 0:48:03The KLF were the biggest selling singles band in Europe.
0:48:03 > 0:48:04# And you can catch it
0:48:04 > 0:48:06# Down with the cool crew, talking about Mu Mu
0:48:06 > 0:48:08# Justified ancient liberation, Zulu. #
0:48:08 > 0:48:11With no manager,
0:48:11 > 0:48:12no office.
0:48:14 > 0:48:16They had a lock-up, where they kept their costumes that they
0:48:16 > 0:48:20wore on Top Of The Pops, with the horns coming out of their heads.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23And a squat and a phone.
0:48:23 > 0:48:26And two visionary imaginations
0:48:26 > 0:48:28in Bill and Jimmy.
0:48:29 > 0:48:32And they sold millions and millions of singles.
0:48:32 > 0:48:33# All aboard, all aboard, whoa-oh. #
0:48:33 > 0:48:37Suddenly, there was a sense of cash from chaos again
0:48:37 > 0:48:40rippling through the industry - that everything's possible.
0:48:40 > 0:48:41# All aboard, all aboard, whoa-oh. #
0:48:41 > 0:48:45It's got nothing to do with guitars, it's got nothing to do with people
0:48:45 > 0:48:48in suede or leather jackets singing about their girlfriends.
0:48:48 > 0:48:49# Ooh, ooh!
0:48:49 > 0:48:51# Ooh, ooh!
0:48:51 > 0:48:55It's people doing something truly extraordinary that hasn't been...
0:48:55 > 0:48:56done before.
0:48:56 > 0:48:58DANCE MUSIC PLAYS
0:49:03 > 0:49:06The KLF had been inspired by acid house,
0:49:06 > 0:49:10a grass-roots dance movement that had captured the nation's youth
0:49:10 > 0:49:11in the late '80s.
0:49:13 > 0:49:16When acid house and house and kind of Es
0:49:16 > 0:49:20and rave culture started coming in,
0:49:20 > 0:49:22I actually thought that was the end of indie music
0:49:22 > 0:49:25and we stopped Talulah Gosh in 1988,
0:49:25 > 0:49:27because I thought, you know, what's the point?
0:49:27 > 0:49:29No one's going to be interested in this.
0:49:29 > 0:49:34And it was really true, that, for a couple of years, no one was.
0:49:34 > 0:49:36Everybody was into dance music.
0:49:36 > 0:49:38DANCE MUSIC PLAYS
0:49:40 > 0:49:45Acid house had made indie guitar music seem obsolete almost overnight.
0:49:45 > 0:49:49But some guitar bands took it as a source of inspiration
0:49:49 > 0:49:51and would use it to revitalise their sound.
0:49:54 > 0:49:56I think the big thing that happened to indie music
0:49:56 > 0:49:58was ecstasy and the kind of prim,
0:49:58 > 0:50:01don't-eat-meat, got-to-wear-black people went,
0:50:01 > 0:50:03"Ooh, OK. I'll have a cheeky half."
0:50:03 > 0:50:06And it completely changed that musical landscape.
0:50:06 > 0:50:11Dance culture and going to those places and seeing raves, suddenly,
0:50:11 > 0:50:15hanging out with different people, they completely changed
0:50:15 > 0:50:19the way of working and the musical output and their way of thinking.
0:50:19 > 0:50:20And, so, there was a really big shift.
0:50:20 > 0:50:23DANCE MUSIC
0:50:27 > 0:50:31Here in Manchester, there was a nightclub called The Hacienda.
0:50:31 > 0:50:35It used to be on this spot. It's flats now, like everywhere else.
0:50:35 > 0:50:39But The Hacienda came to be at the centre of the acid house scene.
0:50:39 > 0:50:42DANCE MUSIC
0:50:46 > 0:50:50It was buzzing and amongst the legions of revellers here were
0:50:50 > 0:50:53The Happy Mondays, who absolutely fell in love with the scene.
0:50:56 > 0:51:02It was very full, loud, sweaty and...
0:51:02 > 0:51:06and the coolest place to be on Earth, really. You know?
0:51:06 > 0:51:08Obviously, you know,
0:51:08 > 0:51:11it was that everyone in there was...
0:51:11 > 0:51:13was on ecstasy, so it was great.
0:51:13 > 0:51:16Well, I'd say about 97% of people in there, at times, was on E.
0:51:21 > 0:51:23The Happy Mondays were under the balcony.
0:51:23 > 0:51:26Flogging Es. That's what The Happy Mondays were doing.
0:51:26 > 0:51:28Right underneath where I was playing.
0:51:28 > 0:51:31They were part of that scene, everyone was part of that scene,
0:51:31 > 0:51:34it was like a...it was like a huge secret society for two years.
0:51:34 > 0:51:37MUSIC: Moving In With by Happy Mondays
0:51:41 > 0:51:45The Happy Mondays had started off as an indie guitar band,
0:51:45 > 0:51:48but, after a few years spent hanging around The Hacienda,
0:51:48 > 0:51:53they mashed up their original sound with the dance grooves of acid house.
0:51:53 > 0:51:55Ever the man with the feel for the zeitgeist,
0:51:55 > 0:51:58Factory Records boss Tony Wilson signed them up.
0:51:58 > 0:52:01# Through my window. #
0:52:01 > 0:52:04I honestly don't think Happy Mondays
0:52:04 > 0:52:08would have ever got signed by a major record label.
0:52:08 > 0:52:11They just weren't the sort of band that a major label would have
0:52:11 > 0:52:12even understood or comprehended.
0:52:12 > 0:52:15MUSIC: Moving In With by Happy Mondays
0:52:15 > 0:52:17# ..Goosey Loosey, Turkey Lurky
0:52:17 > 0:52:19# Chicky Licky, Ducky Lucky. #
0:52:19 > 0:52:21At the very first studio session,
0:52:21 > 0:52:24which was to record demos for the Bummed album...
0:52:24 > 0:52:27As we were packing the gear down, a fight broke out
0:52:27 > 0:52:30between Shaun Ryder and Paul Ryder, the two brothers.
0:52:30 > 0:52:33# The sound's falling in. #
0:52:33 > 0:52:35And I remember Paul Ryder pulled a knife
0:52:35 > 0:52:38on his brother in the studio.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41And Shaun... I was like, "Oh, what the fuck's this?"
0:52:41 > 0:52:45Shaun picked up a drum pedal and so the two of them
0:52:45 > 0:52:49were going at it in the studio, with a drum pedal and a knife.
0:52:49 > 0:52:53I mean, I was absolutely terrified and this spilled out into the street
0:52:53 > 0:52:56and they were chasing each other round cars and I was just like,
0:52:56 > 0:52:59"What the fuck have I let myself in for here?"
0:53:08 > 0:53:10Factory was once again taking a risk,
0:53:10 > 0:53:14signing a band that a major wouldn't have touched with a barge pole.
0:53:18 > 0:53:22In an industry, where something you do can either sell 500,
0:53:22 > 0:53:26or 5,000 or 50,000
0:53:26 > 0:53:28or 500,000, or 5 million,
0:53:28 > 0:53:31can sell any of those and you can have no idea,
0:53:31 > 0:53:36except your artistic judgement that it's a good piece of work,
0:53:36 > 0:53:38then, profit and loss forecasts...
0:53:38 > 0:53:40are a joke.
0:53:40 > 0:53:43Tony Wilson trusted his artistic judgement
0:53:43 > 0:53:46and supported his bands in their creative efforts.
0:53:46 > 0:53:50With The Happy Mondays, he was right to do so on both counts.
0:53:51 > 0:53:53Well, he let us make music, you know?
0:53:53 > 0:53:56I think everyone else thought we were pretty shit.
0:53:56 > 0:53:59You know? So...
0:53:59 > 0:54:02He let us, Tony let us make music.
0:54:02 > 0:54:05You know, find ourselves. Your ideas counted.
0:54:07 > 0:54:09You're coming out with an album and you turn around
0:54:09 > 0:54:11to the guys at the record label and say,
0:54:11 > 0:54:16"I want a guy who's a DJ in Ibiza to produce our flagship record."
0:54:16 > 0:54:19He would go, "Not a chance!"
0:54:19 > 0:54:23And independent record labels let you do things like that.
0:54:23 > 0:54:28We were trying to build a cultural bridge between Happy Mondays,
0:54:28 > 0:54:31as an indie or a rock band,
0:54:31 > 0:54:34and the ecstasy generation that was happening
0:54:34 > 0:54:38and that was becoming an absolute natural, cultural phenomenon.
0:54:42 > 0:54:46And they weren't the only ones evolving this sound.
0:54:46 > 0:54:50In 1989, Manchester - or Madchester, as it became known -
0:54:50 > 0:54:53asserted itself as the birthplace of this new genre
0:54:53 > 0:54:58of indie dance music, when both the Stone Roses and Happy Mondays
0:54:58 > 0:55:01debuted on the same episode of Top Of The Pops.
0:55:01 > 0:55:03MUSIC: Fools Gold by The Stone Roses
0:55:08 > 0:55:13# The gold road's sure a long road
0:55:13 > 0:55:16# Winds on through the hills for 15 days
0:55:16 > 0:55:17CHEERING
0:55:20 > 0:55:21CHEERING
0:55:25 > 0:55:30# The pack on my back is aching
0:55:30 > 0:55:35# The straps seem to cut me like a knife. #
0:55:35 > 0:55:39'That first Top Of The Pops was with The Stone Roses.
0:55:39 > 0:55:41'Nobody really had a clue who we was.'
0:55:41 > 0:55:44I mean, you've got a few indie kids, you know, who knew who we was.
0:55:44 > 0:55:48And NME readers, who knew who The Mondays and The Stone Roses was,
0:55:48 > 0:55:52but, that bigger, out-there audience
0:55:52 > 0:55:56didn't have a clue who The Happy Mondays and the Stone Roses was.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58MUSIC: Hallelujah by Happy Mondays
0:55:58 > 0:56:00# Hallelujah
0:56:01 > 0:56:04# Hallelujah, hallelujah
0:56:04 > 0:56:07# We're here to pull ya
0:56:07 > 0:56:10# Back in to do it all the same
0:56:11 > 0:56:14# Hallelujah, hallelujah
0:56:14 > 0:56:17# Not sent to save ya
0:56:17 > 0:56:21# Just here to spank ya and play a game. #
0:56:21 > 0:56:24It seemed, to a lot of people, to be a seminal moment, at that time.
0:56:24 > 0:56:25# Fine, fine, doin' fine. #
0:56:25 > 0:56:29It was a...sort of indie dance music sort of genre
0:56:29 > 0:56:32was born of that and then it became like a...
0:56:32 > 0:56:35You know, a ton of records, which came behind those.
0:56:35 > 0:56:37It started a whole new genre
0:56:37 > 0:56:39and I think it really made it much more exciting.
0:56:39 > 0:56:41MUSIC: Step On by Happy Mondays
0:56:44 > 0:56:47# Hey rainmaker, come away from that man. #
0:56:47 > 0:56:51By the time Happy Mondays crashed into the top five
0:56:51 > 0:56:54with Step On the following year, alongside the Stone Roses,
0:56:54 > 0:56:57they've were leading indie music into a new era.
0:56:57 > 0:56:59# He'll never stop until he's... #
0:56:59 > 0:57:02Indie became part... You know, we were never ashamed
0:57:02 > 0:57:04of being, of saying, "We're a pop band".
0:57:04 > 0:57:06That's what we wanted to be, you know? I mean...
0:57:06 > 0:57:08You know...
0:57:08 > 0:57:11growing up, with...David Bowie,
0:57:11 > 0:57:13you know, it was in the pop charts, you know?
0:57:13 > 0:57:16So, you know, pop music is great music.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19I mean, there's a bit of stigma going about pop music, but...
0:57:19 > 0:57:22or was. But, you know, it's popular music
0:57:22 > 0:57:24and we wanted to make popular music.
0:57:24 > 0:57:26MUSIC: There's No Other Way by Blur
0:57:33 > 0:57:34# There's no other way. #
0:57:34 > 0:57:37At the beginning of the 1980s, indie bands seemed to deliberately
0:57:37 > 0:57:41set themselves apart from the mainstream.
0:57:41 > 0:57:44But, by the end of the decade, indie wasn't just popular,
0:57:44 > 0:57:47it had become pop music.
0:57:47 > 0:57:49And next time, we'll see how indie music
0:57:49 > 0:57:53is revolutionised by a new generation.
0:57:53 > 0:57:54# There's no other way
0:57:54 > 0:57:58# All that you can do is watch them play. #