0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains some strong language
0:00:07 > 0:00:10Starting in the 1970s, a countercultural movement
0:00:10 > 0:00:14would change the way music was made forever.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20From grass-roots beginnings in the backwaters of Britain, a new
0:00:20 > 0:00:24DIY approach to music-making would give rise to a whole new genre.
0:00:25 > 0:00:30Not just a sound but an attitude and an ethos.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33This is indie.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43We'll discover why it spoke so perfectly to a generation
0:00:43 > 0:00:48and reveal how this music for misfits eventually came of age.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57In the 1980s, independent labels
0:00:57 > 0:00:59and artists had started out as a subculture
0:00:59 > 0:01:04but ended up achieving massive success in the mainstream charts.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08Indie had become a genre of pop music
0:01:08 > 0:01:10and in the 1990s a new wave of bands
0:01:10 > 0:01:15would come along who would take this concept even further.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28By the late '80s an underground dance movement had
0:01:28 > 0:01:30a generation in the grip of euphoria.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33Acid house had all but swept away the indie of old.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38Acid house and rave culture is a huge,
0:01:38 > 0:01:40huge sort of cultural shift, really,
0:01:40 > 0:01:42away from scratchy guitar bands
0:01:42 > 0:01:46into...things that sound a lot more expansive, a lot more modern,
0:01:46 > 0:01:48and probably more commercial as well.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50People were doing this around the country
0:01:50 > 0:01:54with their own individual sounds and their own scene but all interlinked.
0:01:54 > 0:01:55It was really exciting.
0:01:58 > 0:02:02But not everyone was enamoured with the rave scene.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04RECORD SCRATCH EFFECT
0:02:05 > 0:02:0716 policemen were injured
0:02:07 > 0:02:11when they tried to break up an acid house party in Surrey last night.
0:02:11 > 0:02:141,000 youngsters broke into this disused warehouse.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17More than 800 people were arrested last night.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20Violence broke out when the police moved in to prevent it
0:02:20 > 0:02:23going ahead, and they were forced to withdraw.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27They returned later with 150 reinforcements to make the arrests.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30£2,000 worth of drugs was seized.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35The illegal raves and stories of the drugs that accompanied them
0:02:35 > 0:02:38meant that battle lines were soon drawn between the authorities
0:02:38 > 0:02:42and the ravers, but for independent music-makers the new dance culture
0:02:42 > 0:02:47inspired a seismic change in the country's musical landscape.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51Fired up by acid house, London-based music press officer Jeff Barrett
0:02:51 > 0:02:55wanted to start his own label, to capture the exhilarating,
0:02:55 > 0:02:58freethinking attitude he was experiencing on the scene.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03It was a very exciting time for me, that period, it was very...
0:03:03 > 0:03:05Well, it was acid house,
0:03:05 > 0:03:07and there was this meeting of lots of different minds from
0:03:07 > 0:03:11different scenes kind of colliding, and there was a lot of energy.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15A young journalist and fanzine writer, Bob Stanley,
0:03:15 > 0:03:18had begun to make music with childhood friend Pete Wiggs
0:03:18 > 0:03:21and was keen to find a way of getting it released.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24The first ambition we had with Saint Etienne was just to make a record!
0:03:24 > 0:03:26That was really it.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30We recorded Only Love Can Break Your Heart in two hours,
0:03:30 > 0:03:31it was pretty straightforward.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33And that's what I played to Jeff.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36And they'd brought a Walkman and I put the headphones on
0:03:36 > 0:03:41and they played me a cassette of Only Love Can Break Your heart.
0:03:41 > 0:03:46Oh, I mean, joy of joys, it was just like, "Wow, this is great."
0:03:46 > 0:03:48And I said, "Play that again," they played it again.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51He said, "Yeah, I like it. I'm starting a label called Heavenly.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53"Can I put it out?" And I was, like, great!
0:03:53 > 0:03:56Didn't have to spend six years going round in a Transit van.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58That's it, we've got a record out.
0:03:58 > 0:04:02It was one of the most freshest pieces of music,
0:04:02 > 0:04:06a unique take on a great song but, regardless of that, just...
0:04:06 > 0:04:09It was a unique record and it was so of its time.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13# Yes, only love can break your heart
0:04:13 > 0:04:19# What if your world should fall apart... #
0:04:19 > 0:04:24Heavenly released Only Love Can Break Your Heart in the summer of 1990.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26Bob's not like a crazy acid house raver,
0:04:26 > 0:04:28he's just this very conscientious journalist,
0:04:28 > 0:04:31just totally loves pop culture and the minutiae of pop culture,
0:04:31 > 0:04:34so he gets, like, a little breakbeat of one track,
0:04:34 > 0:04:37he gets a girl to sing it and he gets a Neil Young song to cover
0:04:37 > 0:04:39and makes one of the best songs of that period.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42But it sort of really catches that summery,
0:04:42 > 0:04:43hazy feeling so perfectly,
0:04:43 > 0:04:46and even now you listen to it, it still kind of drips that
0:04:46 > 0:04:50optimistic, can-do attitude which also came out of acid house.
0:04:56 > 0:04:57Barrett continued to meet people
0:04:57 > 0:05:01and make connections within the club scene
0:05:01 > 0:05:04that helped create a buzz around his new label,
0:05:04 > 0:05:08including a group of ravers from north London called Flowered Up.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11MUSIC: "It's On" by Flowered Up
0:05:11 > 0:05:14I thought, "Oh, that's a great name. That's a brilliant name."
0:05:14 > 0:05:18I mean, to be flowered up, what does it mean?! Right?!
0:05:18 > 0:05:20Like it, though!
0:05:20 > 0:05:22# So how was it last night?
0:05:22 > 0:05:24# Yeah, sweet, I done 40
0:05:24 > 0:05:28# I'd come to see the lost boy and I took it... #
0:05:28 > 0:05:31Heavenly's early releases continued to reflect
0:05:31 > 0:05:35the barrier-breaking possibilities that acid house seemed to suggest,
0:05:35 > 0:05:38but their next signing were as far away from the rave scene
0:05:38 > 0:05:41as it was possible to imagine.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44But Barrett thought that a spiky posse of proto-punks
0:05:44 > 0:05:48from the Welsh Valleys was a risk worth taking.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51MUSIC: Motown Junk by the Manic Street Preachers
0:05:51 > 0:05:54# Never ever wanted to be with you
0:05:54 > 0:05:58# The only thing you gave me was the boredom I suffocated in
0:05:58 > 0:06:00# Whoo-hoo-hoo... #
0:06:00 > 0:06:03The Manic Street Preachers were a close-knit
0:06:03 > 0:06:05group of friends from Blackwood, Gwent,
0:06:05 > 0:06:09who'd spent their teenage years immersed in indie fanzine culture.
0:06:09 > 0:06:14They played their first London gig in September 1989.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17# Motown, Motown junk... #
0:06:17 > 0:06:20Oh, now... That was some gig. They were really good.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22They were really, really good.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26We went backstage afterwards and we knew we had to do their records.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28He told me that he was gonnae do this record
0:06:28 > 0:06:32with this punk-rock band, and this was during acid house.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35And he was gonnae bring punk rock back or something.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37It was some insane Barrett rant,
0:06:37 > 0:06:40and at the time I thought he was nuts.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43# Why don't you just fuck...
0:06:46 > 0:06:48# Don't wanna see your face
0:06:48 > 0:06:51# Don't wanna hear your voice
0:06:51 > 0:06:53# Why don't you just fuck... #
0:06:55 > 0:06:58We're the most original band, I think, of the last 15 years,
0:06:58 > 0:07:02just because we don't want to do anything that's been done before.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05We will never write a love song, ever. Full stop.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08We'll be dead before we have to do that, anyway.
0:07:08 > 0:07:10We just want to mix, like, politics and sex.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13And look brilliant on stage. And say brilliant things.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15And that became the Manic Street Preachers.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17# You love us
0:07:17 > 0:07:20# Oh, you love us
0:07:20 > 0:07:22# You love
0:07:22 > 0:07:25# You love us, you love us
0:07:25 > 0:07:27# You love... #
0:07:27 > 0:07:30Well, I think a lot of people objected to us...
0:07:30 > 0:07:32after they met us, basically!
0:07:32 > 0:07:34I think they just thought we were gobshites.
0:07:34 > 0:07:38Oh, people hated them, of course they did. You know what I mean?
0:07:38 > 0:07:40I mean, boys in make-up? Hoh! Not having that.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43How outdated, you know.
0:07:43 > 0:07:44What a racket.
0:07:44 > 0:07:48We loved Guns N' Roses, we loved metal. We loved sport as well.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51We didn't quite fit into the indie fraternity
0:07:51 > 0:07:55because we were just quite messy people from top to bottom.
0:07:55 > 0:07:57# You
0:07:57 > 0:08:00# Love
0:08:00 > 0:08:01# Us... #
0:08:01 > 0:08:04They were fans of words, they were fans of the power of words,
0:08:04 > 0:08:09the ferocity of Public Enemy, the kind of camp of Guns N' Roses,
0:08:09 > 0:08:13and the desire to be as provocative as they could possibly be.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16And it was straight up, you know. They only wanted to do two singles
0:08:16 > 0:08:19because they wanted to go off and be, you know, enormous.
0:08:19 > 0:08:23Their debut LP was going to be the biggest debut album of all time.
0:08:23 > 0:08:29# Love's sweet exile... #
0:08:29 > 0:08:32We had some kind of barefaced ambition.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35You know, we wanted to sell 27 million records and all that!
0:08:35 > 0:08:40"There's no way you little independent record label could ever possibly do that for us. We need...
0:08:40 > 0:08:42"We need corporations behind us."
0:08:42 > 0:08:45We didn't bother playing where we came from.
0:08:45 > 0:08:49We just got a couple of shows in London and phoned lots of journalists.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52Got 'em down, we had a couple of reviews, then we got a manager,
0:08:52 > 0:08:54and then we got signed by Heavenly Records.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56It was all quite simple, wasn't it?
0:08:56 > 0:08:59Put out two singles and now we're signed to CBS.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05It was just cool. It was just, you know, that's the bottom line -
0:09:05 > 0:09:08a lot of these labels were run just by amazing people.
0:09:09 > 0:09:14We'd put out three singles on Heavenly and not got in the top 40,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17and Alan McGee was managing us at this point,
0:09:17 > 0:09:18so I think he said to Jeff,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21"I can do the distribution through Creation."
0:09:21 > 0:09:24They'll effectively be pressed and distributed by Creation
0:09:24 > 0:09:27but they'll still have the Heavenly logo on.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30And then we did start getting top-40 hits.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33# Nothing can stop us now
0:09:33 > 0:09:36# No, no, no, no... #
0:09:38 > 0:09:40Having worked as the label's press officer,
0:09:40 > 0:09:44Barrett had close connections with Creation Records.
0:09:44 > 0:09:49Founded in 1984 by Glaswegian scenester Alan McGee, Creation had
0:09:49 > 0:09:53already forged a reputation with its instinctive signings.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57I hadn't realised just how ambitious Alan McGee was as a man.
0:09:57 > 0:10:01I knew he was a powerful force, it took me by surprise, though.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04He was... You know, he wanted to be big. Alan just wanted to be BIG.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06And again, while we're driving,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09it was...somebody who just... didn't give a fuck.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12Somebody that just thought, "I'm not hearing the music
0:10:12 > 0:10:14"I want to hear so I'm going to sign it instead."
0:10:14 > 0:10:17I remember Creation as being a label that you just bought into as a kid.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20You used to get these little Creation singles,
0:10:20 > 0:10:21the first Jesus and Mary Chain single,
0:10:21 > 0:10:24the first Primal Scream single, the X-Men, the Legend.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28Alan's main hope for Creation lay in Primal Scream, led by his
0:10:28 > 0:10:33childhood friend and former Jesus and Mary Chain drummer Bobby Gillespie.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36I just decided I was going to make Primal Scream superstars.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41# Here she comes again
0:10:41 > 0:10:44# With vodka in her veins... #
0:10:44 > 0:10:47Primal Scream were seen as this sort of fey little indie band,
0:10:47 > 0:10:50but they weren't, they had a lot more to them than that.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53I mean, that song Velocity Girl, you know,
0:10:53 > 0:10:56talking about a girl putting vodka in her veins.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00That's not giving somebody a lollipop, is it? That's nihilistic.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02But it was exciting.
0:11:02 > 0:11:06Velocity Girl had been a much-lauded tune on NME's C86 cassette,
0:11:06 > 0:11:10a collection of tracks that were said to represent the birth of indie-pop,
0:11:10 > 0:11:15but Gillespie, ever searching for a new sound, was keen to move on.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19And then they got into their sort of dirty rock and roll phase,
0:11:19 > 0:11:20around the second album,
0:11:20 > 0:11:23which people thought was just commercial suicide.
0:11:26 > 0:11:28But it was a great record and they were...
0:11:28 > 0:11:29And the hair was getting long
0:11:29 > 0:11:33and they'd started to think they were the Rolling Stones or the Faces
0:11:33 > 0:11:36and they started to live the rock and roll lifestyle a bit.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39# Ivy, you're a girl that I can never taste
0:11:39 > 0:11:42# I get violent feelings when I see your face... #
0:11:42 > 0:11:47By the late '80s, after years signed to his old friend's label,
0:11:47 > 0:11:50Gillespie was still no nearer hitting the big time.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53I saw Primal Scream in '88 and thought they were past it.
0:11:53 > 0:11:57I thought, "This was a fine band once but their moment has gone."
0:11:57 > 0:12:00They just kept going because they didn't have anything else to do
0:12:00 > 0:12:04and I just kept going because I'd decided that they were going to become successful.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07I think at times I was more convinced than they were.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14McGee had taken to regularly visiting his old friend
0:12:14 > 0:12:17and mentor, Factory Records supremo, Tony Wilson,
0:12:17 > 0:12:21here at the Hacienda in Manchester, where, with an endless
0:12:21 > 0:12:25supply of Ecstasy, the Happy Mondays were changing the musical landscape.
0:12:25 > 0:12:29Enthralled by the acid house scene, Alan McGee was keen to open
0:12:29 > 0:12:34Gillespie's mind to the possibilities of a new musical direction.
0:12:34 > 0:12:38If Alan McGee says I gave him his first E, it's possibly true,
0:12:38 > 0:12:39if Alan says it.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42I mean, Alan, again, you know, he did at that time,
0:12:42 > 0:12:46you know, he moved to Manchester, he joined the party.
0:12:46 > 0:12:47That was funny, though. He did, he...
0:12:47 > 0:12:50Alan moved to Manchester and moved into a house with, like,
0:12:50 > 0:12:52all Manchester's groupies.
0:12:57 > 0:13:02Together, McGee and Gillespie went along to a Happy Mondays gig.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05# I wrote for luck But they sent me you... #
0:13:05 > 0:13:09Went to the Mondays' dressing room, Shaun came to the door, went...
0:13:09 > 0:13:13And I went, "Three Es," got three Es, and I came back,
0:13:13 > 0:13:17I dropped one, gave two to Bobby, and of course Bobby Gillespie,
0:13:17 > 0:13:20he won't remember this, but he dropped it.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23As in, he dropped it on the bloody floor, aye.
0:13:23 > 0:13:28So I had to give him the other one, you know, and then of course...
0:13:28 > 0:13:31Primal Scream changed. Do you know what I mean?
0:13:31 > 0:13:35They went from being the New York Dolls to...you know, suddenly...
0:13:35 > 0:13:38You know, they were regulars at Shoom.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41And that happened within a month. There was a few like that.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45But, yeah, it was the Mondays that got Bobby on an E.
0:13:45 > 0:13:49I think sex can be really psychedelic.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52I think being in a car crash can be really psychedelic.
0:13:52 > 0:13:56I think looking at the sea could be psychedelic. You know?
0:13:56 > 0:13:59I mean, the word's... If you look it up in the dictionary,
0:13:59 > 0:14:03the word psychedelic is defined as "mind-altering drugs".
0:14:03 > 0:14:06- SHAUN RYDER:- I think somebody's first E back in the day would have
0:14:06 > 0:14:09had an effect on, you know, everybody's way of thinking.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11And it certainly did, yeah.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13But it was Jeff Barrett,
0:14:13 > 0:14:16then looking after the press for the Primals' second album
0:14:16 > 0:14:19and struggling to convince the music papers of the band's relevance,
0:14:19 > 0:14:24who had the idea of introducing them to writer and DJ, Andy Weatherall.
0:14:24 > 0:14:28And Andrew picked up on the ballads on that record.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32The Primals asked Weatherall
0:14:32 > 0:14:37if he would remix the song I'm Losing More Than I'll Ever Have.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41# I'm sorry I hurt you... #
0:14:41 > 0:14:45I was very nervous, I didn't know what you could and couldn't do, but
0:14:45 > 0:14:46I was full of piss and vinegar
0:14:46 > 0:14:49and full of the confidence of ignorance, you know, so I don't
0:14:49 > 0:14:52know that I'm breaking rules cos I don't know what the rules are.
0:14:52 > 0:14:58Basically from a Faces kind of rip-off song, Andy cut it up
0:14:58 > 0:15:02and handed it back, and that's the genius Andy Weatherall.
0:15:02 > 0:15:06And it was just an anthem, with the samples and shit, you know?
0:15:06 > 0:15:08Do anything you want to do.
0:15:08 > 0:15:11I want to get loaded I want to have a good time.
0:15:11 > 0:15:15The hedonistic sample that introduces the song is lifted from
0:15:15 > 0:15:19the 1960s motorcycle film The Wild Angels.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21In a classic act of teen rebellion,
0:15:21 > 0:15:24Peter Fonda issues a statement of intent that resonated perfectly
0:15:24 > 0:15:2925 years later for the ecstasy generation.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31Just what is it that you want to do?
0:15:31 > 0:15:34AUDIENCE MURMURS
0:15:34 > 0:15:37Well, we want to be free. We want to be free to...
0:15:37 > 0:15:41to do what we want to do. Want to be free to ride.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44We want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the man.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46AUDIENCE ASSENTS
0:15:46 > 0:15:50- And we want to get loaded. - CHEERING
0:15:50 > 0:15:53And we want to have a good time.
0:15:53 > 0:15:57Released in March 1990, Primal Scream's Loaded brought the
0:15:57 > 0:16:03two cultures of acid house and classic guitar music together for Creation,
0:16:03 > 0:16:05capturing the zeitgeist in the process.
0:16:05 > 0:16:11It was crazy, it went up the charts. And, you know, we were shocked.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15That's what an independent label is there for, I think,
0:16:15 > 0:16:18to create something that's out of the mainstream,
0:16:18 > 0:16:21that is completely brand-new.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24So it was... That was a real moment. I remember that.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26We were as uncool as it could be,
0:16:26 > 0:16:30and then suddenly we were the hippest band.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33And that happened within about a year. It was crazy.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43'We want to be free to do what we want to do.'
0:16:43 > 0:16:48While Creation was experiencing a golden age, other apparently
0:16:48 > 0:16:51successful British independent labels were having hard times.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54Rough Trade, run by Geoff Travis,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57and very much the mother of the British indie scene,
0:16:57 > 0:17:01was facing impending bankruptcy in its distribution division.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04This led to knock-on problems with the record label,
0:17:04 > 0:17:08and they had to sell the family jewels - the Smiths' back catalogue.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12# I was happy in the haze Of a drunken hour
0:17:12 > 0:17:15# But Heaven knows I'm miserable now. #
0:17:15 > 0:17:18From just starting in a shop and somebody coming in
0:17:18 > 0:17:20and saying "Can you get rid of these 20 records for me?"
0:17:20 > 0:17:24and him phoning up a couple of mates in Edinburgh or Norwich
0:17:24 > 0:17:25or Leeds and get rid of them,
0:17:25 > 0:17:28to being this multi-million pound operation selling
0:17:28 > 0:17:33millions of records - it was flawed, it was never going to happen.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37Any independent label has a problem with success
0:17:37 > 0:17:40because you have to pay royalties.
0:17:40 > 0:17:44And there are situations where you may have spread yourself thin
0:17:44 > 0:17:48with artists who are not ever going to be successful
0:17:48 > 0:17:51but do have a lot of costs.
0:17:51 > 0:17:55And you use your successes to fund the new signings.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58So when that artist becomes very successful and they need
0:17:58 > 0:18:03their royalties paid, you don't always have the money to do it.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05All the rivets started to get loose,
0:18:05 > 0:18:08and the whole thing just sort of shook,
0:18:08 > 0:18:10and it literally fell apart.
0:18:10 > 0:18:15Most of the management who had built the thing had gone.
0:18:15 > 0:18:19Geoff had stopped going to board meetings for about 18 months
0:18:19 > 0:18:24before it closed, and there was no way, no way of keeping it going.
0:18:24 > 0:18:29# Here's where the story ends... #
0:18:29 > 0:18:33So it just blew to pieces. It had run past its time.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37I think it was one of the great tragedies, because it remains
0:18:37 > 0:18:42one of the great countercultural institutions the UK has ever seen.
0:18:42 > 0:18:47# Here's where the story ends. #
0:18:50 > 0:18:52I knew Rough Trade was going to go down.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55I don't know why I knew it, I just knew it was going down.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58So we went from being about the eighth biggest indie to being
0:18:58 > 0:19:02the second biggest indie overnight. So we did great, you know?
0:19:04 > 0:19:07Creation's Hackney offices were now the centre of a hit-making hub
0:19:07 > 0:19:12that was propelling its artists into unprecedented success.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14We used to go down to the Creation offices
0:19:14 > 0:19:16and they had all the floorboards that were all bent,
0:19:16 > 0:19:19and you go in and think, "Who actually works in here?"
0:19:19 > 0:19:22It was like a party, just loads of people jumping around on tables and chairs.
0:19:22 > 0:19:26There was a couple of people seemed to be holding it all together, but it was utter chaos.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28But they just kept putting these records out
0:19:28 > 0:19:30and everyone kept buying them.
0:19:30 > 0:19:31It was always exciting.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34I remember the first time The Concept by Teenage Fanclub...
0:19:34 > 0:19:36Well, that's an incredible record.
0:19:36 > 0:19:44# I didn't want to hurt you Oh, yeah... #
0:19:44 > 0:19:47It really felt like it was where a lot of things were happening.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50They were bringing out great dance records, signing pretty good new bands.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53Creation was more like a band than the bands were.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57That's what was great about it - it was totally rock and roll, and that's why it worked as a label.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00I mean, you can't do that forever - it doesn't do your head any good,
0:20:00 > 0:20:02and it doesn't do your business any good -
0:20:02 > 0:20:04but for that period of time it worked fantastically.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07Everything that McGee was signing was turning into gold.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10So at that point in time they'd become a really big label,
0:20:10 > 0:20:12but I wouldn't like to be an accountant.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14We were always on the verge of bankruptcy,
0:20:14 > 0:20:17we really were on the verge of bankruptcy. It was like...
0:20:17 > 0:20:20I think we were technically bankrupt for years, really, to be honest.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23People realised we were putting out amazing music,
0:20:23 > 0:20:27so they always cut us slack, do you know what I mean?
0:20:27 > 0:20:30The wait for some of Creation's bands to deliver that amazing music
0:20:30 > 0:20:35had left the label constantly teetering on the brink of collapse.
0:20:35 > 0:20:40I remember one time after Bandwagonesque had been a huge hit
0:20:40 > 0:20:43for Teenage Fanclub, they took ages to do the follow-up.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46And Alan said he'd gone to the studio to see them
0:20:46 > 0:20:49and they were just playing pool and he went mad.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52The reason Primal Scream couldn't deliver the record was
0:20:52 > 0:20:55that Thursday to Sunday they were taking drugs.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Monday, Tuesday, they were recovering.
0:20:58 > 0:20:59Wednesday they would do some work.
0:20:59 > 0:21:03So they were doing one-day weeks. My God!
0:21:03 > 0:21:07So, with Creation just about holding it together in Hackney,
0:21:07 > 0:21:11back in Manchester, here at their HQ, Factory Records,
0:21:11 > 0:21:14the label responsible for some of the most innovative
0:21:14 > 0:21:17and ground-breaking releases of the previous decade,
0:21:17 > 0:21:22and also, arguably, the cultural resurrection of the city itself,
0:21:22 > 0:21:25succumbed to years of financial mismanagement.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27In the boardroom.
0:21:27 > 0:21:29Just up there.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32When they moved into the new offices they decided to
0:21:32 > 0:21:38spend about 30 grand on a table that was designed by some artist.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41It was hanging by wires from the ceiling.
0:21:41 > 0:21:46And I went and sat on the table and destroyed the table.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48You know, it just descended into chaos.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52First of all, they didn't buy the building the Hacienda was in
0:21:52 > 0:21:54when it was cheap, and then they decided to buy it
0:21:54 > 0:21:56when it was really expensive.
0:21:56 > 0:22:00You know, just terrible business. Terrible.
0:22:00 > 0:22:05Mindful of the plight facing his heroes here at Factory,
0:22:05 > 0:22:10McGee was also painfully aware of his own label's precarious finances.
0:22:10 > 0:22:14They were releasing bucket-loads of great records and having one hell of a party,
0:22:14 > 0:22:19but it was clear to Alan that he needed to confront the situation head-on.
0:22:20 > 0:22:25In 1992 a £2.5 million deal gave major label Sony
0:22:25 > 0:22:28a 49% stake in Creation.
0:22:28 > 0:22:32We done the deal with Sony because we were going bankrupt
0:22:32 > 0:22:34and Sony paid off the debt.
0:22:34 > 0:22:38I remember meeting Alan and he said that they'd sold
0:22:38 > 0:22:42half the company to Sony, and he goes, he said, "I'm a millionaire."
0:22:42 > 0:22:44I was like, "I'm really pleased for you."
0:22:44 > 0:22:46I'm not sure what it means for the label.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48I think that's probably the end of it, really.
0:22:48 > 0:22:50So, you know, it saved him financially,
0:22:50 > 0:22:53but that was, yeah, I think from that point on I don't really
0:22:53 > 0:22:56think of it being the same label any more.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59It changed everything for me as a human being.
0:22:59 > 0:23:04I mean, you've got to understand I never got into music to make money.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06And then one day I woke up
0:23:06 > 0:23:10and I had two million quid in my bank account, right? You know...
0:23:11 > 0:23:16Overnight. Cos Sony just went and put a couple of million in, right?
0:23:16 > 0:23:20And I was like, "God, I've got a bit of money, it's great."
0:23:20 > 0:23:22Well, you've taken the King's shilling.
0:23:22 > 0:23:26You can't be independent ever again if you've got somebody paying
0:23:26 > 0:23:29all your bills and running your company the way they want it.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31You may think you are, you ain't.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34They're running it because they are, at the end of the day,
0:23:34 > 0:23:36paying all the bills.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39And that's what happened to all the independents.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42In the early '90s, Creation records weren't the only independent
0:23:42 > 0:23:46to take advantage of the funding a major could bring them.
0:23:46 > 0:23:48Though they didn't exactly broadcast it,
0:23:48 > 0:23:53Heavenly did a deal with Colombia and Mute got into bed with EMI.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56As did Food Records, which was run by the former
0:23:56 > 0:23:59co-founder of the Zoo label, Dave Balfe.
0:23:59 > 0:24:02But what we were really, really inhibited by was money.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04We just didn't have any money.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08I mean, literally money to pay for rehearsal rooms, to buy enough equipment,
0:24:08 > 0:24:11to do gigs, to do proper recordings.
0:24:11 > 0:24:15So we did a deal with EMI, which, I think, was a great deal to do at that time.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19But also we then hit the period of grunge.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22If you were into alternative rock in those days,
0:24:22 > 0:24:26seven out of ten fans were buying American alternative rock,
0:24:26 > 0:24:28and that was really depressing.
0:24:28 > 0:24:34SONG: Smells Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana
0:24:39 > 0:24:44And basically, we couldn't get arrested, hardly, getting on radio...
0:24:44 > 0:24:47and we were just keeping ourselves alive through that period.
0:24:47 > 0:24:48And it was really tough.
0:24:48 > 0:24:53And the only band that seemed to be doing at all well in those periods were Suede, who were great.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57# She's show, showing it off then
0:24:57 > 0:25:00# The glitter in her lovely eyes
0:25:02 > 0:25:06# Show, show, showing it off then
0:25:06 > 0:25:09# And all the people shake their money in time... #
0:25:09 > 0:25:12If the biggest movement in music at the time is grunge,
0:25:12 > 0:25:14the worst thing to do is to form a grunge band.
0:25:14 > 0:25:16We didn't want to be with all the other groups
0:25:16 > 0:25:18on the other side of the room,
0:25:18 > 0:25:21we wanted to be in the corner doing something interesting
0:25:21 > 0:25:24and doing it long enough until people said, "What is that?
0:25:24 > 0:25:26"What is that weird thing you're doing?"
0:25:26 > 0:25:28And then eventually everyone moved to the other side of the room,
0:25:28 > 0:25:30and I think that's what happened.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33# So young
0:25:33 > 0:25:37# And so gone
0:25:37 > 0:25:44# Let's chase the dragon Oh... #
0:25:44 > 0:25:49Everything had to be very snappy with us, and very black and white, that's the way we saw it.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52We didn't want any blurred edges, nothing that could merge into one.
0:25:52 > 0:25:53We weren't interested in that sound.
0:25:53 > 0:25:57We wanted it to be razor-sharp, and me and Brett saw things as blocks.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01You'd have a big block, a big rhythm, something that was powerful.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04You know, everything had to be dramatic and powerful.
0:26:04 > 0:26:08Fast gaining attention, Suede were clear about who they did
0:26:08 > 0:26:10and didn't want to sign with.
0:26:10 > 0:26:14It was important to sign to an independent label
0:26:14 > 0:26:16so that we had control.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19And we weren't a Creation band.
0:26:19 > 0:26:22It was too much of a club and we didn't want to be part of the club.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24Again, we wanted to be the outsiders.
0:26:24 > 0:26:28Their choice of label was to further demonstrate how the distinct
0:26:28 > 0:26:30worlds of indies and majors were beginning to blur.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33The best opportunity that came up was when Nude Records formed.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35A guy called Saul Galpern,
0:26:35 > 0:26:39he had an opportunity to do a label backed by Sony abroad.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41So in the UK it would be independent,
0:26:41 > 0:26:44and so creatively, everything that came out would be independent
0:26:44 > 0:26:46but it would be distributed abroad.
0:26:46 > 0:26:48So it seemed like the best of all worlds.
0:26:48 > 0:26:51# What does it take to turn you on? #
0:26:51 > 0:26:54It was a set-up that worked perfectly for the band,
0:26:54 > 0:26:57and the excitement that accompanied Suede's first releases seemed
0:26:57 > 0:27:00to signal a change in alternative music tastes.
0:27:04 > 0:27:09# Now your animal's gone. #
0:27:09 > 0:27:12Eager to escape from the dominance of grunge,
0:27:12 > 0:27:16the British music press began to champion bands much closer to home
0:27:16 > 0:27:19in an attempt to create a new scene.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22# He's not a prince He's not a king. #
0:27:22 > 0:27:26The phenomenon that has become known as Britpop.
0:27:26 > 0:27:27- Britpop.- Britpop.
0:27:27 > 0:27:29# We are young we've gone green... #
0:27:29 > 0:27:31- Britpop.- Britpop.
0:27:31 > 0:27:34# I guess I'm all right Yes I'm all right... #
0:27:34 > 0:27:38- Britpop.- Britpop.- Britpop.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42# But somehow the vital connection is made... #
0:27:42 > 0:27:45The defining moment where indie finally goes overground is
0:27:45 > 0:27:48when the term Britpop is coined.
0:27:48 > 0:27:50The term Britpop was used in the '60s
0:27:50 > 0:27:54and so it's not a new term, but in the '90s I think some
0:27:54 > 0:27:59wag at the NME decided to recoin a group of bands who were
0:27:59 > 0:28:02hanging around the London area, in the Camden area, and call it Britpop
0:28:02 > 0:28:04because it was commercial.
0:28:04 > 0:28:08Not all bands were keen to be labelled with the Britpop moniker.
0:28:08 > 0:28:11Suede were particularly unhappy to find themselves
0:28:11 > 0:28:14draped in the Union Jack on the pages of the music press.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18I had no interest in the British flag, in England or whatever.
0:28:18 > 0:28:19I still don't regard myself as British.
0:28:19 > 0:28:21I've got no patriotism at all.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24So I thought it was an absolute load of crap, the whole thing,
0:28:24 > 0:28:29and it really annoyed me. It was a commercial movement.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33SONG: Disco 2000 by Pulp
0:28:33 > 0:28:39I don't understand how Pulp became part of that Britpop thing,
0:28:39 > 0:28:42other than they wrote really good songs at a time when
0:28:42 > 0:28:48people were looking for really good songs from ostensibly alternative bands.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51# We were born within an hour of each other
0:28:51 > 0:28:54# Our parents said we could be sister and brother... #
0:28:54 > 0:28:58It strikes me they don't have anything, really, artistically
0:28:58 > 0:29:03in common with Oasis or Blur, except that they seemed very English.
0:29:03 > 0:29:07If you want something to happen enough then it actually will happen, OK?
0:29:07 > 0:29:11CHEERING
0:29:11 > 0:29:12And I believe that.
0:29:12 > 0:29:17In fact, that's why we stood on this stage today after 15 years, cos...
0:29:17 > 0:29:19CHEERING
0:29:19 > 0:29:21..we wanted it to happen, you know what I mean?
0:29:21 > 0:29:25Oh, the Pulp thing was like this weird triumph of this band
0:29:25 > 0:29:28who'd worked for 15 years to get where they were,
0:29:28 > 0:29:31or maybe longer, suddenly headlining Glastonbury,
0:29:31 > 0:29:34and doing it, and absolutely managing to do it.
0:29:34 > 0:29:38SONG: Common People by Pulp
0:29:41 > 0:29:45# She came from Greece She had a thirst for knowledge
0:29:45 > 0:29:48# She studied sculpture At Saint Martin's College
0:29:48 > 0:29:49# That's where I
0:29:51 > 0:29:53# Caught her eye
0:29:56 > 0:29:59# She told me that her dad was loaded
0:29:59 > 0:30:02# I said, in that case I'll have a rum and Coca-Cola... #
0:30:02 > 0:30:04And I've seen bands fall on their faces there
0:30:04 > 0:30:07when they can't quite do the big stadium thing.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10But they won everyone over, and it was quite an amazing thing.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14# I want to live like common people
0:30:14 > 0:30:17# I want to do whatever Common people do
0:30:17 > 0:30:20# I want to sleep with Common people
0:30:20 > 0:30:24# I want to sleep with Common people like you... #
0:30:24 > 0:30:29You know, some people try to write songs of social observation
0:30:29 > 0:30:34and it's quite a theme in Britpop, but in a song like
0:30:34 > 0:30:38Common People you can actually hear anger and you can hear experience.
0:30:38 > 0:30:41# Sing along with the common people
0:30:41 > 0:30:44# Sing along and it might just get you through
0:30:44 > 0:30:47# Laugh along with the common people
0:30:47 > 0:30:51# Laugh along even though they're laughing at you
0:30:51 > 0:30:54# And the stupid things that you do
0:30:54 > 0:30:58# Because you think that poor is cool... #
0:30:58 > 0:31:00It's very accessible.
0:31:00 > 0:31:04If you've got no money and you don't feel like you fit in,
0:31:04 > 0:31:08it's very wonderful you've got someone with a number two single
0:31:08 > 0:31:11pointing the finger at people who drive you mad all day.
0:31:11 > 0:31:15And for all the idea that the '90s was euphoric
0:31:15 > 0:31:19and everyone was always punching the air,
0:31:19 > 0:31:22possibly the best song of the era, Common People,
0:31:22 > 0:31:26is a wonderful song of typical British rage.
0:31:26 > 0:31:32# Whoa, la la la la Whoa, la la la la
0:31:32 > 0:31:36# Whoa, la la la la Oh, yeah. #
0:31:36 > 0:31:39CHEERING
0:31:39 > 0:31:42# Girls who love boys who like boys to be girls
0:31:42 > 0:31:44# Who do boys like they're girls who do girls
0:31:44 > 0:31:47# Like they're boys. #
0:31:47 > 0:31:50With bigger recording budgets, multiformatted releases
0:31:50 > 0:31:55and blanket media coverage, Britpop was doing major business.
0:31:55 > 0:31:58I saw Britpop as EMI's answer to their flagging sales.
0:31:58 > 0:32:02I mean, a brilliant campaign. Brilliant, brilliant campaign,
0:32:02 > 0:32:04but that was definitely a major record company.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07# All the people
0:32:07 > 0:32:11# So many people
0:32:11 > 0:32:14# And they all go hand in hand
0:32:14 > 0:32:19# Hand in hand through their Parklife. #
0:32:19 > 0:32:24Blur saved EMI. I mean, suddenly Blur were EMI's new Beatles.
0:32:24 > 0:32:26So that you got this...
0:32:26 > 0:32:28Because that's when, you've got to remember,
0:32:28 > 0:32:33when these record companies of this size get it, they take it to a different level.
0:32:33 > 0:32:40# Live my life in the city There's no easy way out... #
0:32:40 > 0:32:42While EMI were developing Blur's career,
0:32:42 > 0:32:45an unknown band from Manchester called Oasis had
0:32:45 > 0:32:50chanced their way onto the bill at a spit and sawdust venue in Glasgow.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53They got to play. I saw them. Like, they were brilliant.
0:32:58 > 0:32:59And I thought, I should sign them.
0:32:59 > 0:33:02But I had a few doubts, because that was, like, Sunday night,
0:33:02 > 0:33:06and by the Thursday, I was thinking, "I wonder if that was bullshit."
0:33:06 > 0:33:10As in, "I wonder if that was because I was off my tits." Do you know what I mean?
0:33:10 > 0:33:13"I wonder if they were really that good."
0:33:13 > 0:33:16SONG: Supersonic by Oasis
0:33:16 > 0:33:19Oasis came along and they were the band that did it,
0:33:19 > 0:33:22that took a - again - putatively alternative sound
0:33:22 > 0:33:26that was also really familiar to people.
0:33:26 > 0:33:29Ambition was all, I think, in the early '90s and the mid-'90s.
0:33:29 > 0:33:31To be ambitious was OK again.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34I think Oasis were one of the big proponents of that.
0:33:34 > 0:33:36"We're working class, so we CAN be ambitious.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39"We're not posh, so we CAN be ambitious. We've got no money."
0:33:39 > 0:33:41That kind of thing. Whereas the Happy Mondays,
0:33:41 > 0:33:43you knew were just going to be in a puddle somewhere after a gig.
0:33:43 > 0:33:46We just want to be the biggest band in the world.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48- As big as we can be.- For today. And that is it, end of story.
0:33:48 > 0:33:50And we want all the things that go with it.
0:33:50 > 0:33:54I want to be a big pop star and I want to do loads of people's heads in cos they're going,
0:33:54 > 0:33:57"Look at him, look at him!" And I'll be going "Nyeh".
0:33:57 > 0:34:00Know what I mean? But I want it and I don't... I'm not embarrassed about it.
0:34:00 > 0:34:06# Maybe I just wanna fly Wanna live, I don't wanna die
0:34:06 > 0:34:11# Maybe I just want to breathe Maybe I just don't believe
0:34:11 > 0:34:16# Maybe you're the same as me We see things they'll never see
0:34:16 > 0:34:20# You and I are gonna live forever. #
0:34:20 > 0:34:25These definitely weren't the kind of fey boys with the bowl-cuts
0:34:25 > 0:34:29and the cardigans that you'd see at a Talulah Gosh gig.
0:34:30 > 0:34:35However, for Sony, Oasis were a defiant vindication
0:34:35 > 0:34:39of their multi-million pound investment in McGee's indie intuition.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42# Today is gonna be the day
0:34:42 > 0:34:44# That they're gonna throw it back to you... #
0:34:44 > 0:34:49I didn't think I was signing the biggest British rock and roll band since Led Zeppelin.
0:34:49 > 0:34:54I had no idea that I was signing somebody that was going to go on to sell 60 million records.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57I was like, you know... I'd not a clue.
0:34:57 > 0:35:00But a lot of it is being in the right place at the right time.
0:35:00 > 0:35:02Was it a surprise that we bumped into Oasis?
0:35:02 > 0:35:05Because it was like, who else would have been out on a Sunday night
0:35:05 > 0:35:09in King Tut's Wah Wah Hut, do you know what I mean?
0:35:09 > 0:35:11SONG: Roll With It by Oasis
0:35:11 > 0:35:15SONG: Country House by Blur
0:35:15 > 0:35:18It's been called the biggest battle in pop music for nearly 30 years.
0:35:18 > 0:35:20# You gotta roll with it... #
0:35:20 > 0:35:22The music industry hasn't seen anything like it.
0:35:22 > 0:35:26# He lives in a house A very big house in the country... #
0:35:26 > 0:35:28Blur and Oasis...
0:35:28 > 0:35:29# In the country... #
0:35:29 > 0:35:31..have begun the biggest chart war...
0:35:31 > 0:35:32# You've gotta say what you say... #
0:35:32 > 0:35:34..in 30 years.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36In one corner, four young middle-class men from the
0:35:36 > 0:35:39south of England collectively known as Blur and, in the other
0:35:39 > 0:35:43corner, five young working-class men from Manchester called Oasis.
0:35:43 > 0:35:45I loved it.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48That whole Blur-Oasis thing, Blur V Oasis, that NME cover,
0:35:48 > 0:35:51and it being on the Nine O'Clock News.
0:35:51 > 0:35:53Of course it was brilliant.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56You had your working-class northern lad against your
0:35:56 > 0:35:57middle-class southern kids.
0:35:57 > 0:36:01And one maybe won the battle but the other won the war.
0:36:01 > 0:36:04Who knows? It was fun. At least music was on people's lips.
0:36:04 > 0:36:06At least you walked down the street
0:36:06 > 0:36:09and Mrs Miggins in the pie shop would know who Liam Gallagher was.
0:36:09 > 0:36:11And the Best British Group...
0:36:15 > 0:36:17..is Oasis.
0:36:18 > 0:36:22There are seven people in this room tonight
0:36:22 > 0:36:25who are giving a little bit of hope to young people in this country.
0:36:25 > 0:36:30that is me, our kid, Bonehead, Guigsy, Alan White,
0:36:30 > 0:36:33Alan McGee and Tony Blair.
0:36:33 > 0:36:37And if you'd all got anything about you, you'd get up there and shake Tony Blair's hand, man.
0:36:37 > 0:36:39He's a man. Power to the people!
0:36:41 > 0:36:45With Britpop making headlines, what once had seen itself as proudly
0:36:45 > 0:36:49anti-authoritarian had become firmly part of the establishment.
0:36:49 > 0:36:54Indie was the mainstream by 1995. Do you know what I mean?
0:36:54 > 0:36:58That was rock and roll. That was pop music.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00That's the thing, as well, you know.
0:37:00 > 0:37:02Indie music was sort of music for outsiders,
0:37:02 > 0:37:06and by the time it gets to Britpop it's clearly not music for outsiders.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13Having devoured an indie sound whilst discarding the indie ethos,
0:37:13 > 0:37:17the majors, desperate to sustain the Britpop cash cow, began to
0:37:17 > 0:37:20swamp the market with their new signings.
0:37:22 > 0:37:25# Will there be another breakdown? #
0:37:25 > 0:37:31The problem with any movement is people think there's a formula,
0:37:31 > 0:37:33and they don't realise that the people who started it had
0:37:33 > 0:37:37something to say, and so when you see a formula, a lot of people,
0:37:37 > 0:37:43both from the music industry and from the artist community, sign up to it.
0:37:43 > 0:37:45And so you get a diluted formula.
0:37:45 > 0:37:48When you get dilution, that musical form becomes meaningless.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51# Where did you go? #
0:37:54 > 0:37:57Guitar music suddenly came back into the charts in a big way.
0:37:57 > 0:37:59And then everything was independent.
0:37:59 > 0:38:04Independent was as broad a church as the record companies could make it.
0:38:04 > 0:38:10And every good-looking boy with a pudding-bowl haircut was...
0:38:10 > 0:38:14You know, everyone that was holding a guitar was basically indie.
0:38:14 > 0:38:16There was no taste filter, you know?
0:38:16 > 0:38:20It was just accepted that all Britpop was good.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22And it was played and it was played
0:38:22 > 0:38:24and the listeners were bored, you know?
0:38:24 > 0:38:27# My favourite thing has gone away... #
0:38:27 > 0:38:30The dream had been shattered, the bubble had been burst,
0:38:30 > 0:38:32and it was almost like we'd been found out.
0:38:33 > 0:38:38# I stole his shoes and ran away Trying jolly hard to see
0:38:38 > 0:38:41# If we could catch him round the bend. #
0:38:43 > 0:38:46Britpop was the end of that secret society.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49It was the end of just experimenting and, you know,
0:38:49 > 0:38:53scrabbling around in the dirt, and it meaning something to you.
0:38:53 > 0:38:56You know, after that, to be an indie act,
0:38:56 > 0:38:59you actually had to sell some records.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02Meanwhile, back at Creation, McGee began to realise that the
0:39:02 > 0:39:06culture and spirit of his label had been irrevocably changed.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08He wanted out.
0:39:08 > 0:39:09I mean, shit happens, man.
0:39:09 > 0:39:13Sometimes you've got to just move and do what you got to do.
0:39:13 > 0:39:17And that's... If you want a definition of indie, maybe that's what we were.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21I'd had enough of the bullshit of Sony music.
0:39:21 > 0:39:23"Fuck you, I'm going."
0:39:23 > 0:39:28With McGee gone, Sony realised they had little to hang their hat on
0:39:28 > 0:39:31and quickly pulled down the shutters on Creation Records.
0:39:31 > 0:39:36For many it was a dark period for independent music.
0:39:36 > 0:39:42But a ray of light came in 1999 when Geoff Travis relaunched Rough Trade.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45And the signing that reconfirmed them as a pre-eminent force was
0:39:45 > 0:39:49The Strokes, a New York band with impeccable vintage style.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02# Last night
0:40:02 > 0:40:04# She said
0:40:04 > 0:40:07# "Oh, baby, I feel so down
0:40:07 > 0:40:09# "See, it turns me off
0:40:09 > 0:40:11# "When I'm feeling down"
0:40:11 > 0:40:13# So I
0:40:14 > 0:40:15# I turn round
0:40:15 > 0:40:18# "Oh, babe, I don't care no more
0:40:18 > 0:40:20# "I know this for sure... #
0:40:20 > 0:40:23Rough Trade's huge success with the Strokes
0:40:23 > 0:40:27meant that it was, once again, a label that bands wanted to sign to.
0:40:28 > 0:40:30# "I feel so down
0:40:30 > 0:40:32# "See, I don't know why"... #
0:40:32 > 0:40:36You know, I wanted the limos and the big guy with a cigar
0:40:36 > 0:40:37and a contract,
0:40:37 > 0:40:43but Peter was very insistent on following the Rough Trade route,
0:40:43 > 0:40:46cos he was greatly influenced by Morrissey and The Smiths.
0:40:46 > 0:40:49This one particular day, this girl called Bani had been calling me.
0:40:49 > 0:40:52She said, "Could you come and see my band? I have got this band
0:40:52 > 0:40:53"called The Libertines."
0:40:53 > 0:40:56She was bleating that I was going to meet the new Lennon and McCartney.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59We had to call in all of our favours and all of our friends and everyone
0:40:59 > 0:41:03from around the sort of scene at the time and get them all to come.
0:41:03 > 0:41:05So, I go along. I get there at 1am.
0:41:05 > 0:41:09I walk in to, like, Sodom and Gomorrah. I walk in to the last days
0:41:09 > 0:41:12of Rome. They are all, like,
0:41:12 > 0:41:15resting actors. They are doing, like, film or doing photography.
0:41:15 > 0:41:19They are all... Everybody is off their nut.
0:41:19 > 0:41:22There was all sorts. There was that girl Ariel, remember?
0:41:22 > 0:41:24She used to wear fig leaves.
0:41:24 > 0:41:25Hello.
0:41:25 > 0:41:29There was a scene. Basically, it's a scene. I walk into a scene.
0:41:29 > 0:41:30Then The Libertines walk on.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33MUSIC: Up The Bracket by The Libertines
0:41:36 > 0:41:38# I saw two shadow men on the Vallance Road
0:41:40 > 0:41:45# Said they'd pay me for your address Oh, I was so bold
0:41:45 > 0:41:47# I said, "You see these two cold fingers
0:41:48 > 0:41:51# "These crooked fingers
0:41:51 > 0:41:53# "I'll show you a way to mean no"
0:41:53 > 0:41:56# Well, they didn't like that much I can tell you... #
0:41:56 > 0:42:00I run into the office on the Monday morning and say to Geoff Travis,
0:42:00 > 0:42:03"Geoff, The Beatles in Hamburg, 1961 - I've just seen it.
0:42:03 > 0:42:04"We have to sign this band."
0:42:04 > 0:42:07Everyone who was there was really making it look like, at midnight -
0:42:07 > 0:42:11when we played, for James Endeacott's benefit, largely -
0:42:11 > 0:42:14that this was a whole scene happening that was going on.
0:42:14 > 0:42:15It wasn't so much.
0:42:15 > 0:42:17Almost, engineering a bit of a swizz, a swindle.
0:42:17 > 0:42:19And we signed them for next to nothing.
0:42:19 > 0:42:21I think it was what we wanted. It suited the band, as well.
0:42:21 > 0:42:24Nothing we went in with was going to be too shocking.
0:42:24 > 0:42:26That was good to know.
0:42:26 > 0:42:29And we could take it as read that they would be behind us.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32With the freedom that Rough Trade allowed them,
0:42:32 > 0:42:34the band set about doing things their own way,
0:42:34 > 0:42:37using the internet to chronicle their antics
0:42:37 > 0:42:38and communicate with their fans.
0:42:38 > 0:42:40Pete and Carl were all-encompassing -
0:42:40 > 0:42:43"Get the audience on the stage, let's hang out with them.
0:42:43 > 0:42:48"Let's have gigs in our house. Let's hang out with the people
0:42:48 > 0:42:50"who are buying our records. Let's just be a part of it.
0:42:50 > 0:42:52"Let's smash down all those barriers."
0:42:52 > 0:42:57Everyone now dreams of things going viral.
0:42:57 > 0:43:01And before people knew what "going viral" meant,
0:43:01 > 0:43:03The Libertines went viral, basically.
0:43:03 > 0:43:07And it was before....anyone had a sense of how this could be
0:43:07 > 0:43:11harnessed or controlled or used to do anything commercially.
0:43:11 > 0:43:14It was exciting. It was liberating.
0:43:14 > 0:43:17For a few months, maybe a year, it was really liberating.
0:43:17 > 0:43:20You really felt as though something was going to change.
0:43:20 > 0:43:23There was a definite sense that something had been bypassed.
0:43:23 > 0:43:30That the rules of how, you know, you build a career for yourself -
0:43:30 > 0:43:32you do a gig and you get a good... all that had gone.
0:43:32 > 0:43:36Rough Trade was suddenly hip again. In fact, probably hip
0:43:36 > 0:43:38for the first time. I don't think Rough Trade
0:43:38 > 0:43:40had ever been hip, actually.
0:43:40 > 0:43:43It had always been important, but I don't think it had ever been hip.
0:43:43 > 0:43:45# Don't look back into the sun
0:43:45 > 0:43:47# Now you know that your time has come
0:43:49 > 0:43:51# And they said it would never come for you... #
0:43:52 > 0:43:54But despite Rough Trade's new-found cool,
0:43:54 > 0:43:57via their signing The Libertines in 2001,
0:43:57 > 0:44:00it soon became the band's - and particularly Pete Doherty's -
0:44:00 > 0:44:05behaviour, rather than the music, that dominated the media coverage.
0:44:05 > 0:44:07The Libertines seemed to be unravelling,
0:44:07 > 0:44:09and before long the relationship between the band
0:44:09 > 0:44:11and Rough Trade disintegrated.
0:44:11 > 0:44:16The re-emergence of Rough Trade in the early 2000s, and the success
0:44:16 > 0:44:20of The Strokes and The Libertines, coincided with a renewed excitement
0:44:20 > 0:44:26about guitars and indie music once again being released on indie labels.
0:44:26 > 0:44:30Soon after, stories began to circulate about a thrilling new band
0:44:30 > 0:44:32coming out of Glasgow.
0:44:37 > 0:44:41We started playing music... for our friends,
0:44:41 > 0:44:46for the people around about us. We wanted to make a scene in Glasgow.
0:44:46 > 0:44:47We took over this warehouse.
0:44:47 > 0:44:50We called it The Chateau. It was a shithole.
0:44:50 > 0:44:53The windows were all done in. We got Perspex and fixed up
0:44:53 > 0:44:56all the windows. We, literally, sprayed the pigeon shit
0:44:56 > 0:44:58out of the building. And we put on shows there.
0:44:58 > 0:45:03Artist friends would put on their work and we would perform.
0:45:03 > 0:45:05We'd get DJs down to play.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08It would just be kind of wild parties.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11So, when we were writing songs, it was for that environment.
0:45:11 > 0:45:14We weren't thinking at all
0:45:14 > 0:45:18about record deal or any of that stuff. We were thinking about
0:45:18 > 0:45:22our immediate environment and just creating songs, in the first place.
0:45:23 > 0:45:25# You are the latest adventure
0:45:27 > 0:45:28# You're an emotion avenger... #
0:45:28 > 0:45:32The buzz around Franz Ferdinand resulted in a rush of interest
0:45:32 > 0:45:35from record companies, but it was a struggling London label
0:45:35 > 0:45:38that was to well and truly prove that indies could compete with majors
0:45:38 > 0:45:39on their own terms.
0:45:39 > 0:45:41# Know that you will surrender... #
0:45:41 > 0:45:46Laurence Bell, founder of Domino Records, had had moderate success
0:45:46 > 0:45:51with other artists, but he was in no doubt of Franz's potential.
0:45:51 > 0:45:54# My lips undress your eyes... #
0:45:54 > 0:45:57Laurence at Domino, I think always was interested in what
0:45:57 > 0:46:01was happening in Glasgow. If you are in A&R, it is really seductive
0:46:01 > 0:46:03knowing that a band has already invented their own world,
0:46:03 > 0:46:05particularly if it is a world that seems popular.
0:46:05 > 0:46:10That was the sense with Franz, that they had made this scene in Glasgow
0:46:10 > 0:46:12and were ready to take it to everywhere else.
0:46:12 > 0:46:16Word started going out about Franz Ferdinand in the music industry
0:46:16 > 0:46:19in London and people started coming up to Glasgow to see shows.
0:46:19 > 0:46:23We were so, er...
0:46:23 > 0:46:25suspicious of everybody then!
0:46:25 > 0:46:27Anybody that came near us.
0:46:27 > 0:46:30And we were always convinced that they were going to try and buy us,
0:46:30 > 0:46:34in some way. If they ever tried to take us to a pub or a bar
0:46:34 > 0:46:38and offered to buy us a drink, we'd be like, "No, I'm buying my own,
0:46:38 > 0:46:41"thank you very much." And so, for us, a label like Domino,
0:46:41 > 0:46:45where you trace the whole label back to someone like Laurence Bell,
0:46:45 > 0:46:50is completely different from a label like Sony or Epic,
0:46:50 > 0:46:56who just have these professional faces who come in and come out.
0:46:56 > 0:46:58# When I woke up tonight, I said
0:46:58 > 0:47:04"I'm gonna make somebody love me
0:47:04 > 0:47:07"I'm gonna make somebody love me"
0:47:07 > 0:47:12# And now I know, now I know now I know, I know that it's you
0:47:12 > 0:47:14# You lucky, lucky You're so lucky... #
0:47:16 > 0:47:20It helped a great deal that Domino went and found the same sort
0:47:20 > 0:47:24of money they were being offered by other labels, which sort of
0:47:24 > 0:47:28disputed the idea that they were sort of small fry.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30If it had gone down, he would have gone down.
0:47:30 > 0:47:32He would have been personally bankrupt
0:47:32 > 0:47:34if our first album had flopped.
0:47:34 > 0:47:38But rather than feeling worried or guilty about it, I loved it.
0:47:38 > 0:47:42It was great - "Och, yes! Take it on!"
0:47:42 > 0:47:46The best things you do in life are reckless.
0:47:46 > 0:47:49You take a chance and you could fuck everything up drastically,
0:47:49 > 0:47:54but, my God, it feels twice as good when it works out.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58Having taken that risk, Laurence and the band were rewarded
0:47:58 > 0:48:01with near-instant international success -
0:48:01 > 0:48:03hit singles and a multi-platinum-selling album.
0:48:03 > 0:48:06People were just astonished that they had signed for Domino.
0:48:06 > 0:48:09Absolutely astonished. I think even more astonished
0:48:09 > 0:48:11when they sold just as many on Domino
0:48:11 > 0:48:14as they would with any other label. Because the people at the majors
0:48:14 > 0:48:18like to think they are in charge of that degree of success
0:48:18 > 0:48:22and it can't happen without them. So when it does, it feels like
0:48:22 > 0:48:23terrorism to them.
0:48:23 > 0:48:26MUSIC: Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand
0:48:28 > 0:48:31# So if you're lonely
0:48:31 > 0:48:35# You know I'm here waiting for you
0:48:35 > 0:48:37# I'm just a crosshair
0:48:38 > 0:48:42# I'm just a shot away from you
0:48:42 > 0:48:43# And if you... #
0:48:43 > 0:48:45We weren't trying to play rock music.
0:48:45 > 0:48:48We weren't trying to play indie rock music.
0:48:48 > 0:48:51We were trying to play dance music. We were trying to play...
0:48:51 > 0:48:55use our guitars the way that synthesisers had been used in music.
0:48:55 > 0:48:58The kind of music that we were hearing on the dancefloor,
0:48:58 > 0:49:01you think, OK, there is an arpeggiated part,
0:49:01 > 0:49:03or, here is a part that is just running a long play,
0:49:03 > 0:49:08the likes of a...like you'd find in a Giorgio Moroder or a house part.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11"What if we play the guitars like that? What if we don't play chords?
0:49:11 > 0:49:14"What if we take the beat that we are hearing in dance music and get
0:49:14 > 0:49:16"Paul to play that on the kit?"
0:49:16 > 0:49:19MUSIC: Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand
0:49:43 > 0:49:45# I say, don't you know
0:49:45 > 0:49:48# You say, you don't know
0:49:48 > 0:49:49# I say
0:49:50 > 0:49:53# Take me out! I say, you don't know... #
0:49:53 > 0:49:57With Domino and Franz cleaning up and the success of bands
0:49:57 > 0:49:59like The Strokes and The Libertines,
0:49:59 > 0:50:03independent music was thriving once again.
0:50:03 > 0:50:06But indie's next huge success came from the way fans were using
0:50:06 > 0:50:10social media to communicate genuine grass-roots enthusiasm
0:50:10 > 0:50:13about their new favourite band.
0:50:13 > 0:50:17We're Arctic Monkeys and this is I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor.
0:50:17 > 0:50:18Don't believe the hype.
0:50:26 > 0:50:27It's the post-iPod generation now,
0:50:27 > 0:50:30so the internet's there. If you like one band,
0:50:30 > 0:50:31you go check another band out.
0:50:31 > 0:50:33People are super knowledgeable about music now.
0:50:33 > 0:50:35But where's their bands?
0:50:35 > 0:50:38Arctic Monkeys are a new generation. This is the next generation,
0:50:38 > 0:50:41this is the post-Libertines generation.
0:50:46 > 0:50:48# Stop making the eyes at me
0:50:48 > 0:50:50# I'll stop making the eyes at you... #
0:50:50 > 0:50:54The Arctic Monkeys had built up a fiercely loyal following
0:50:54 > 0:50:59by concentrating on playing around their native Sheffield in the north.
0:50:59 > 0:51:01The resulting record label frenzy to sign the band
0:51:01 > 0:51:03was virtually unprecedented.
0:51:04 > 0:51:07# I bet that you look good on the dancefloor
0:51:07 > 0:51:09# I don't know if you're looking for romance or
0:51:09 > 0:51:11# I don't know what you're looking for... #
0:51:11 > 0:51:13The fan base emerged initially
0:51:13 > 0:51:16as a result of file sharing on the internet.
0:51:16 > 0:51:19They say that you can hinder a band file-sharing and that,
0:51:19 > 0:51:20but it's actually made the Arctic Monkeys.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24# What a scummy man
0:51:24 > 0:51:28# Give him half a chance I bet he'll rob you if he can... #
0:51:28 > 0:51:30They didn't get into this game to be on the telly
0:51:30 > 0:51:32or be in people's faces.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34They wanted to write songs and play music.
0:51:34 > 0:51:37The thing that's real to them is playing music live to their audience.
0:51:37 > 0:51:39Everyone wanted to sign them.
0:51:39 > 0:51:42Some quite old-fashioned old-school music business types
0:51:42 > 0:51:43wanted to be involved.
0:51:43 > 0:51:48And then they signed to this, this sort of upstart label
0:51:48 > 0:51:52that's had this wildfire hit with Franz Ferdinand,
0:51:52 > 0:51:56but seemed to think they can repeat the trick all over again.
0:51:56 > 0:51:59Why don't they understand they just got lucky?
0:52:01 > 0:52:05I probably offered significantly more money than Domino offered them.
0:52:07 > 0:52:11# Fake tales of San Francisco echo through the room... #
0:52:11 > 0:52:15You know, they chose to work with a small team,
0:52:15 > 0:52:18and there is a huge benefit in that.
0:52:18 > 0:52:22What about, er...like, one of them?
0:52:37 > 0:52:39Despite the small team at Domino,
0:52:39 > 0:52:43there was nothing small-scale about the Arctic's subsequent success.
0:52:47 > 0:52:50# Over there, there's friends of mine
0:52:50 > 0:52:54# What can I say, I've known them for a long long time
0:52:54 > 0:52:57# And they might overstep the line
0:52:57 > 0:53:00# You just cannot get angry... #
0:53:00 > 0:53:04Their debut album, Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not,
0:53:04 > 0:53:08went on to be the fastest-selling UK debut album on record.
0:53:08 > 0:53:12And all four subsequent albums have sold millions around the world.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14# Oh, no... # Here it comes!
0:53:14 > 0:53:16# Oh, no, no... #
0:53:38 > 0:53:40CHEERING
0:53:42 > 0:53:46The Arctic's triumph seemed to signal something
0:53:46 > 0:53:48about signing to an indie label
0:53:48 > 0:53:51and achieving sustained mainstream success.
0:53:51 > 0:53:54In some ways, it was a validation of the idealism
0:53:54 > 0:53:57and rebellious spirit of those misfits
0:53:57 > 0:54:00who founded the indie labels and bands
0:54:00 > 0:54:02in the '70s, '80s and '90s.
0:54:02 > 0:54:06But with massive acts as diverse as The xx, Roots Manuva,
0:54:06 > 0:54:09Radiohead and Adele signed to independents,
0:54:09 > 0:54:12what does the concept of indie mean now,
0:54:12 > 0:54:16and why does it continue to appeal to subsequent generations of artists?
0:54:16 > 0:54:19Is it about creative control?
0:54:19 > 0:54:21Is about retaining ownership of your music?
0:54:21 > 0:54:25And is it in any way about that original sense of rebellion?
0:54:25 > 0:54:27MUSIC: Headlights by Wakes
0:54:40 > 0:54:43What we're rebelling against is the idea that
0:54:43 > 0:54:49success is only tied with fame or money.
0:54:49 > 0:54:53And those things aren't the be-all-and-end-all
0:54:53 > 0:54:56to a successful artist, in my opinion.
0:54:56 > 0:55:00When we started the label in 2006, it felt like we were
0:55:00 > 0:55:03rebelling against the indies because, in a bizarre way,
0:55:03 > 0:55:06they were the majors to us because we were so small.
0:55:06 > 0:55:11Indie as a sound now is anything that's not mainstream, I suppose.
0:55:11 > 0:55:14I don't particularly think there's a particular jangly guitar sound
0:55:14 > 0:55:18or anything, I think it's more that there's a wealth and...
0:55:18 > 0:55:22Just, there's so many niches of indie itself,
0:55:22 > 0:55:27that it covers a huge amount of ground and a huge amount of music.
0:55:29 > 0:55:30With Shape,
0:55:30 > 0:55:34we've created more of an entire music sort of management company
0:55:34 > 0:55:39where we publish music, release music on the label, manage artists.
0:55:39 > 0:55:41We play in our band and release our own music
0:55:41 > 0:55:45and we also put on events and run a festival.
0:55:45 > 0:55:49And also, Emma does artwork across all of that.
0:55:49 > 0:55:56I designed the artwork for Gwenno's debut LP, Y Dydd Olaf.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58And I jumped at the chance. I love her music,
0:55:58 > 0:56:01and I've known what she's been doing for a long time.
0:56:01 > 0:56:03And that initial run sold out.
0:56:03 > 0:56:06She was picked up by a bigger independent label,
0:56:06 > 0:56:09Heavenly Recordings, who are based in London,
0:56:09 > 0:56:14and they re-released the record and now it's everywhere.
0:56:14 > 0:56:18And that's really exciting to me, because I get to play a small part.
0:56:18 > 0:56:21SHE SINGS IN WELSH
0:56:29 > 0:56:34Independent labels have a massive part to play in this age.
0:56:34 > 0:56:37Yes, you can stick your music just up on Soundcloud,
0:56:37 > 0:56:42but I still think that there is room for independent labels to be
0:56:42 > 0:56:44the gatekeepers in many ways.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47I see them as sort of cultural gatekeepers,
0:56:47 > 0:56:50because they're people that have obsessed over music
0:56:50 > 0:56:52and dedicated their lives to finding music.
0:56:52 > 0:56:56I don't there's ever been more of a need for independent labels
0:56:56 > 0:56:58than there is today.
0:56:58 > 0:57:01You know, look at the mess the majors have made
0:57:01 > 0:57:04of pretty much everything in the last 50 years.
0:57:04 > 0:57:06There's only three of them left.
0:57:06 > 0:57:08The perfect storm that made indie what it was
0:57:08 > 0:57:11is that the amount of effort you had to put into it,
0:57:11 > 0:57:13the amount of effort you had to do to make a record.
0:57:13 > 0:57:15I think it's important to have some kind of,
0:57:15 > 0:57:17some kind of arbiter who can...
0:57:17 > 0:57:20Is that the right word, arbiter?
0:57:20 > 0:57:22So, someone that... almost like quality control,
0:57:22 > 0:57:26someone to represent what's good so it doesn't get lost in the world.
0:57:26 > 0:57:28In a world where everyone can make their own thing
0:57:28 > 0:57:30and put it on the internet, you've got, like,
0:57:30 > 0:57:32a million screaming voices
0:57:32 > 0:57:35which no-one can differentiate between or hear.
0:57:35 > 0:57:38It's good to have somebody flying the flag for a bit of quality
0:57:38 > 0:57:40and you've got to have someone keeping that alive.
0:57:40 > 0:57:45You get a good sense in your heart from labels like Domino
0:57:45 > 0:57:50or Rough Trade or Factory, or Chemical Underground or Fast,
0:57:50 > 0:57:54who took chances with artists that would never have been taken
0:57:54 > 0:58:00with major labels, and made our lives richer because of it,
0:58:00 > 0:58:06because of these quirky, crazy, egocentric, wonderful individuals.
0:58:06 > 0:58:08Who might be a pain in the arse,
0:58:08 > 0:58:10but might also be the people that change your lives.
0:58:10 > 0:58:14# I am lost for words
0:58:14 > 0:58:17# But I kept my nerve
0:58:17 > 0:58:20# But it's not hopeless
0:58:20 > 0:58:23# If you take rest... #