0:00:20 > 0:00:22In 1987, in Salt Lake City,
0:00:22 > 0:00:27a 33-year-old man was sentenced to life in prison.
0:00:27 > 0:00:33His name was Mark Hofmann, and his crime was murder.
0:00:33 > 0:00:39Calmly and carefully, he had constructed two pipe bombs and killed two innocent people.
0:00:41 > 0:00:46But Mark Hofmann is remembered for much more than murder.
0:00:46 > 0:00:52At the time, he was about to pull off one of the greatest deceptions of the century.
0:00:54 > 0:00:58His purpose - to attack the American dream,
0:00:58 > 0:01:00to rewrite history.
0:01:25 > 0:01:30Emily Dickinson is America's most famous female poet.
0:01:30 > 0:01:35Like Walt Whitman and Mark Twain, she has a place in American hearts.
0:01:35 > 0:01:40Amherst is the small, New England town where she spent her life.
0:01:44 > 0:01:49Dickinson died over 100 years ago, but she is more popular than ever.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53People come from all over the world to see where she lived.
0:01:53 > 0:02:00Libraries and museums pay tens of thousands of dollars for original handwritten poems.
0:02:00 > 0:02:05Emily Dickinson is an American institution.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09In 1997, that institution was turned upside down.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15Virtually every passion and fear
0:02:15 > 0:02:19we have has been addressed by Emily Dickinson.
0:02:21 > 0:02:26She is one of the rare poets who is in the same universe as Shakespeare.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31Whenever a poem of hers is suddenly available,
0:02:31 > 0:02:36whenever you can see her handwriting, there's a mythic quality.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41I was in my office at the Jones Library,
0:02:41 > 0:02:49and a Sotheby's catalogue came in for the June 3rd auction, 1997,
0:02:49 > 0:02:54rare books and manuscripts, and I flipped through it as I always did
0:02:54 > 0:03:01and they were announcing an unknown manuscript in Emily Dickinson's hand.
0:03:01 > 0:03:05- Pretty rare?- Extremely rare.
0:03:05 > 0:03:10It had been... Back in the 1940s, was the last time, er...
0:03:10 > 0:03:15an unknown Emily Dickinson poem was available.
0:03:15 > 0:03:20"That God can not be understood, everyone agrees
0:03:20 > 0:03:25"We do not know his motives nor comprehend his deeds
0:03:25 > 0:03:28"Then why should I seek solace in what I can not know?
0:03:28 > 0:03:33"Better to play in winter's sun than to fear the snow."
0:03:42 > 0:03:482,000 miles away, the same Sotheby's catalogue was sitting on a different desk.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51I was looking at the catalogue.
0:03:51 > 0:03:57I'm thinking, "I'm gonna go after this, I never see a poem for sale.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00"I'd like to have one."
0:04:00 > 0:04:03As I read the quote from the poem,
0:04:03 > 0:04:08"I've heard this before, where have I heard this?" Then it dawned on me.
0:04:11 > 0:04:15This was offered to me by Mark Hofmann in 1984.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22I called my friend up at Sotheby's.
0:04:22 > 0:04:28I said, "I wouldn't be selling it if I were you. It's not her work.
0:04:29 > 0:04:34"I'm sure it's a fake." They said, "OK, we'll look into that."
0:04:37 > 0:04:41Mark Hofmann was the most prolific forger in history.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45He was in prison, but his forgeries were not.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49Despite suspicions about the poem,
0:04:49 > 0:04:56Sotheby's went ahead with the auction, unaware that Jones Library joined the bidding.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00It was touch-and-go till the last moment,
0:05:00 > 0:05:06but we were successful, a poem of Emily Dickinson's was coming back to Amherst.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09A very, very important poem.
0:05:09 > 0:05:15I heard it had been purchased by Dan Lombardo at the Jones Library.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18I figured something had to be done.
0:05:18 > 0:05:23I called Dan and I says, "You just purchased this poem.
0:05:23 > 0:05:29"I hate to tell you this, but this was offered to me by Mark Hofmann in 1984."
0:05:29 > 0:05:33And, boy, I'll tell you, there was this long...
0:05:33 > 0:05:37this long pause on that phone call.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41He was really shaken by what I said.
0:05:41 > 0:05:46He'd been offered this poem by Mark Hofmann.
0:05:46 > 0:05:53When I heard that the hair on my neck stood up because I'd recalled in the mid '80s,
0:05:53 > 0:06:00Mark Hofmann had been exposed as one of the most accomplished forgers of the 20th century.
0:06:02 > 0:06:07Hofmann had forged many of the biggest names in American history.
0:06:07 > 0:06:14But could he have composed a poem that had been accepted as the work of one of the world's finest poets?
0:06:14 > 0:06:18I wrote to Mark Hofmann in prison.
0:06:18 > 0:06:25I was very surprised to get a detailed letter from him, in which he described
0:06:25 > 0:06:30how he sliced a back page out of a 19th century book at the library,
0:06:30 > 0:06:34how he drew the lines on and knew what paper to use.
0:06:34 > 0:06:40How he spent three days working on it - was a great challenge he said.
0:06:43 > 0:06:48Forgers are usually motivated by money. Hofmann wanted more.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51He had a plan - to rewrite history.
0:06:55 > 0:06:57Before he could take on America,
0:06:57 > 0:07:03he had a score to settle with the institution that dominated his life, the Mormon church.
0:07:08 > 0:07:13The Mormon faith is based on the teachings of Joseph Smith,
0:07:13 > 0:07:17a poorly educated farm boy.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21Mormons believe that in 1823, an angel appeared to Joseph Smith
0:07:21 > 0:07:29telling him about a new testament, written on gold tablets and buried on a hill side.
0:07:29 > 0:07:36Joseph dug up the tablets and translated the cryptic text. The result was the Book of Mormon.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43This was the world Mark Hofmann grew up in.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45His parents were devout Mormons.
0:07:45 > 0:07:51Hofmann was brought up to be an unquestioning believer in this idiosyncratic faith.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55Mormonism is a secretive religion
0:07:55 > 0:07:57and Hofmann was a secretive child
0:07:57 > 0:08:02with obsessive interests in chemistry, gunpowder and magic.
0:08:02 > 0:08:06He also had a talent that no-one knew about.
0:08:07 > 0:08:12He got interested in forgery early on, as a teenager.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15He took an ordinary Mormon coin,
0:08:15 > 0:08:18that wasn't worth much at all.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23Using fairly complex...
0:08:23 > 0:08:27With his home chemistry set, electroplating process,
0:08:27 > 0:08:32he changed the mint mark on the coin from "c" to "d" or "d" to "c".
0:08:32 > 0:08:36But in so doing - altering this coin,
0:08:36 > 0:08:43he changed it from a relatively worthless coin, to a rare coin worth thousands of dollars.
0:08:43 > 0:08:49Even the US Treasury deemed this coin to be genuine.
0:08:49 > 0:08:55I think for the 14-year-old Mark Hofmann this was a watershed moment.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01I remember a quiet, brilliant kid.
0:09:01 > 0:09:07I was a senior in high school. Mark and I shared that senior year together.
0:09:07 > 0:09:13My best memories of Mark were probably sitting up near this spot.
0:09:13 > 0:09:17Listening to avalanches, glad we weren't underneath them.
0:09:17 > 0:09:24We had the crazy idea of climbing a mid-sized peak in the middle of winter, during a cold snap.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28I can remember sitting, cracking peanuts and talking,
0:09:28 > 0:09:33about what life held and what we would do.
0:09:33 > 0:09:39He wanted to get married and raise a good family and serve on a mission for his church.
0:09:39 > 0:09:43There is no question about his faith in their beliefs.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47He didn't have any outspoken political beliefs.
0:09:47 > 0:09:53I don't remember any very strong beliefs that he held outside of his religion.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57Which is interesting, in retrospect.
0:10:01 > 0:10:06Hofmann would later admit that he'd stopped believing in God at 14.
0:10:06 > 0:10:11But the impression he gave was very different.
0:10:11 > 0:10:18Everything I've read about what he said about the time I knew him, is at variance with the Mark I knew.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21Mark had the makings of a deceiver.
0:10:25 > 0:10:30At university, Hofmann became fascinated with Mormon history
0:10:30 > 0:10:33and started dealing in Mormon documents.
0:10:33 > 0:10:38He kept up his childhood pretence that he believed in God.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41No-one knew he was an atheist.
0:10:41 > 0:10:47He even married in the Salt Lake City Temple, the very heart of the Mormon church.
0:10:47 > 0:10:53In 1980, Hofmann dropped out of college to be a document dealer.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57It was the perfect front for a forger.
0:10:57 > 0:11:02He came home and said he had this bible from Catherine's family,
0:11:02 > 0:11:04she was a sister of Joseph Smith.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07He'd found this bible
0:11:07 > 0:11:12and he wanted me to look at it and I remember not caring about it.
0:11:12 > 0:11:14I thought great, that's nice.
0:11:14 > 0:11:20He said, "Do you want to come and look at this bible?" I said, "I will later."
0:11:20 > 0:11:25He said, "Come over right now" and he put the bible in my hand.
0:11:25 > 0:11:30He wanted me to find the paper in there and I did.
0:11:32 > 0:11:36It was a genuine 17th century bible.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40The document stuck between the pages was a fake.
0:11:40 > 0:11:47Hofmann had found a way to launch his first major forgery without arousing suspicion.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49It was called the Anthon Transcript.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54He said, "There's something here."
0:11:54 > 0:12:01He went down to Salt Lake and met with the church leaders, several times he was gone.
0:12:01 > 0:12:05It was on the news, it was a big deal, we were getting phone calls.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08It was a big thing.
0:12:13 > 0:12:19Hofmann believed the Mormon church was founded on a myth - his plan was to expose them.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22First, he needed to win their trust.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26Rather than attacking the church,
0:12:26 > 0:12:31the Anthon Transcript told them exactly what they wanted to hear.
0:12:31 > 0:12:36The Anthon Transcript was gold dust for the Mormon church
0:12:36 > 0:12:41because here was a piece of the Book of Mormon, written by Joseph Smith,
0:12:41 > 0:12:45that was directly transcribed from the golden plates,
0:12:45 > 0:12:50purported to have been found in the ground that held the Book of Mormon.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53It's a brilliant forgery,
0:12:53 > 0:12:59that shows a series of elaborate hieroglyphic symbols on the page, set within a circle.
0:12:59 > 0:13:04Hofmann had made this by drawing round a beer bottle.
0:13:04 > 0:13:09He'd used historic paper, historic ink, which he'd manufactured himself.
0:13:09 > 0:13:14He anticipated the Mormon church would do a thorough forensic job.
0:13:14 > 0:13:20They'd have to destroy a portion of the document and he anticipated they wouldn't do that.
0:13:20 > 0:13:27I remember the day Don Schmidt brought the Anthon Transcript
0:13:27 > 0:13:31for safekeeping in the vault.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34Don, understandably, was very excited.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38You could feel the tremor in his voice as he turned the document
0:13:38 > 0:13:42and read, supposedly, in the hand of Joseph Smith,
0:13:42 > 0:13:46"These are the characters I copied from the golden plates."
0:13:46 > 0:13:51This was the sort of thing that got to a person's heart quickly.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54I remember that the conservator at the university,
0:13:54 > 0:13:58who not only preserved paper but studied it,
0:13:58 > 0:14:05questioned and wondered why more attention hadn't been given to authenticating this from the start.
0:14:05 > 0:14:12But when you find the philosopher's stone, sometimes you don't look too hard.
0:14:15 > 0:14:21The Mormon church quickly accepted the Anthon Transcript as authentic.
0:14:21 > 0:14:28Hofmann gave it to them. In return, he received genuine documents worth 25,000.
0:14:30 > 0:14:36The forgery was publicly accepted by the president of the church.
0:14:36 > 0:14:42Hofmann had swindled the man who Mormons believe is a living prophet.
0:14:42 > 0:14:47Everyone believed it was authentic, he became known and had credibility.
0:14:47 > 0:14:52He said, "This worked, I could do this again. It's what I want to do."
0:14:52 > 0:14:56- So it set him on the course?- Yep.
0:14:58 > 0:15:05It appears to be the earliest Mormon document and Joseph Smith holograph.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09Also, I think it's exciting just to think that,
0:15:09 > 0:15:16apparently, this piece of paper was copied by Joseph Smith's own hand, the characters were.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33Salt Lake City is the capital of the Mormon church.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37Founded by Brigham Young in 1847,
0:15:37 > 0:15:42the city evolved as a sanctuary for believers in this new religion,
0:15:42 > 0:15:44then considered heretic.
0:15:44 > 0:15:51Brigham Young was second only to Joseph Smith in the history of the Mormon church.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53Mark Hofmann had him in his sights.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07The success of the Anthon Transcript
0:16:07 > 0:16:13meant Hofmann was perfectly placed to sabotage his church from within.
0:16:13 > 0:16:20He made up a letter which said that Joseph Smith had wanted his son to be his successor.
0:16:20 > 0:16:24The implication was that Young was an impostor
0:16:24 > 0:16:28and that Salt Lake City was built on lies.
0:16:28 > 0:16:33The church's first concern was to check it was genuine.
0:16:34 > 0:16:40It was a very newsworthy item, but it went through very rigorous authentication.
0:16:40 > 0:16:45No-one could find anything that proved the document was a forgery.
0:16:45 > 0:16:52Was there any surprise that this young man had found two such significant documents?
0:16:52 > 0:16:57There was surprise and scepticism in many quarters.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00But when the documents checked out,
0:17:00 > 0:17:05when examined by historians and there was no evidence of forgery,
0:17:05 > 0:17:12that seemed to be conclusive of establishing Hofmann's reputation as a dealer in genuine material.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17Church leaders had taken the bait.
0:17:17 > 0:17:21As well as receiving several thousand dollars,
0:17:21 > 0:17:26Hofmann had got what he really wanted - access to church archives.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30I next saw Mark in the church office building.
0:17:30 > 0:17:37I was a minor editor of a minor newspaper and attempting to get into the church archives, and couldn't.
0:17:37 > 0:17:43As I sat at the gates, pleading my case so to speak, out walked Mark.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45I asked him what he did.
0:17:45 > 0:17:50He said he worked with old documents. I said, "What do you do as a job?"
0:17:50 > 0:17:56He said, "I work with old documents." So I asked him how he could do that?
0:17:56 > 0:18:04I said, "I'm sure there's no money in that and you're supporting a family." He had this slow smile.
0:18:04 > 0:18:06"You'd be surprised," he said.
0:18:09 > 0:18:14Hofmann had become the magic man of the Mormon document trade,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17coming up with documents no-one else could find.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21Mormon collectors from all over the country began to call.
0:18:21 > 0:18:26I'd been a collector of Mormon manuscripts for about 20 years.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28By 1981,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31Hofmann had a reputation.
0:18:31 > 0:18:38I got his phone number from this friend and I called him up and said, "I've been meaning to get with you."
0:18:38 > 0:18:45He said, "Well, I've been wanting to get with you, too!" He knew about me. I'd been in the newspapers -
0:18:45 > 0:18:50Brigham Young and Joseph Smith documents over the years.
0:18:50 > 0:18:57And I said, "I'm looking for a Joseph Smith handwritten letter. Do you have one?"
0:18:57 > 0:18:59And he just happened to have one.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02He wanted 6,000 for it.
0:19:02 > 0:19:06I couldn't get my cheque book out quick enough.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09I asked him if there was anything else he had.
0:19:11 > 0:19:16In all, Brent Ashworth bought 48 documents from Mark Hofmann.
0:19:16 > 0:19:21What he didn't realise was that every single one of them was a fake.
0:19:53 > 0:20:00When I think back on it now, I can't believe I was so stupid to not have questioned it a bit more!
0:20:04 > 0:20:10We seemed to hit it off well. I was in his home many times, he was in my home.
0:20:10 > 0:20:14We didn't socialise, but through business,
0:20:14 > 0:20:16he was in my store...
0:20:16 > 0:20:21I doubt if a week went by that he wasn't in at least once.
0:20:21 > 0:20:28The interesting thing was he always asked, "Would you be interested if I came up with this item?"
0:20:28 > 0:20:34Like he almost kind of placed an order with you before he made it for you.
0:20:34 > 0:20:38- Did that seem strange? - It seems strange now.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42At the time, maybe we were gullible,
0:20:42 > 0:20:46but when we questioned him about all this material -
0:20:46 > 0:20:51nothing showed up for 100 years and suddenly everything was showing up,
0:20:51 > 0:20:55he said that he had searched out the genealogy of these families.
0:20:55 > 0:20:59In finding their heirs, he found these items.
0:20:59 > 0:21:06There was a lot of phone calls and people coming over wanting to talk with him.
0:21:06 > 0:21:13Mark started taking a lot of trips. He would be gone three weeks out of four. He was gone a lot.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16I don't know at this point what he was doing.
0:21:16 > 0:21:21I assumed he was going to different auction houses. I don't know.
0:21:21 > 0:21:28Hundreds of thousands of dollars were now passing through Hofmann's hands.
0:21:28 > 0:21:33He may have been a brilliant forger, but he was a bad businessman.
0:21:33 > 0:21:40There was money, there was no money and then there was a lot of money. Then there was no money, then a lot.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43His poor wife put up with that all the time.
0:21:43 > 0:21:48It was always difficult... She was always having to ask for money
0:21:48 > 0:21:52to make the house payment and the car payment.
0:21:52 > 0:21:59They were always behind with that. He didn't really ever have a regular business scheme.
0:21:59 > 0:22:02He had no books or accounts or anything.
0:22:02 > 0:22:06He ran his business out of his pocket.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18So where did Mark work?
0:22:18 > 0:22:25Well, he had his office downstairs in the basement, if that's what you mean
0:22:25 > 0:22:32Cos I've had people say, "Didn't you go down there, didn't you know, didn't you...?"
0:22:32 > 0:22:36I went down there and I used to clean it for a while
0:22:36 > 0:22:41until there was too much stuff and you couldn't clean around it.
0:22:41 > 0:22:46I've been told so many times, "You should have known!"
0:22:46 > 0:22:48Well, I didn't.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58Er, we moved in here when I had two children.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01- It was the house Mark grew up in. - Yeah.
0:23:01 > 0:23:08- How did you get on with Mark's family?- I never felt like I was really good enough for their son.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11Their only son, he was their pride and joy.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14I had a tough time in some ways.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17I still do with that because...
0:23:19 > 0:23:25- ..I just never was quite good enough for them, for him. - That's not a nice feeling.- No.
0:23:28 > 0:23:33Today is July 12th 1981 and Michael is four-and-a-half months' old.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38Your belly's showing!
0:23:38 > 0:23:41Everyone will know that you have a belly button.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49OK.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53Let's show 'em how you can hold your toes, eh?
0:23:55 > 0:24:00Look over there! Look! Look! Over there. Over there. Say, "Hi, Mark."
0:24:02 > 0:24:06To know that he could live a double life,
0:24:06 > 0:24:10it's hard to admit that that was what was going on.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14I wasn't smart enough to know, to see what was going on.
0:24:14 > 0:24:21I think in some ways I was seeing some things, but I didn't know what I was seeing.
0:24:21 > 0:24:25You can look back and say, "This is when this was at."
0:24:25 > 0:24:29But, yeah, it's hard to admit to yourself.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32You love this person.
0:24:32 > 0:24:38- You trusted him.- I trusted a person who says he loves you, but really must not have.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52Hofmann's confidence was growing.
0:24:52 > 0:24:58In 1984, he unleashed a forgery designed to shake the foundations of the Mormon faith.
0:25:00 > 0:25:04His last attack had been directed at Brigham Young.
0:25:04 > 0:25:11Now, it was the turn of Joseph Smith himself, the founder of the Mormon church.
0:25:11 > 0:25:16The Salamander letter was the boldest of all his Mormon creations
0:25:16 > 0:25:19and for the church, the most damaging.
0:25:19 > 0:25:24The Salamander describes Joseph Smith walking in the hills,
0:25:24 > 0:25:30hunting for gold, digging in the dirt to find gold,
0:25:30 > 0:25:35when not an angel appears to him but a salamander, a talking toad -
0:25:35 > 0:25:40a toad, almost like a Disney cartoon, it's described in the letter,
0:25:40 > 0:25:45which talks to him from a hole in the ground.
0:25:45 > 0:25:51It doesn't tell him about a divine revelation, it tells him where to find gold, how to get rich.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54And this document,
0:25:54 > 0:25:58if it had been genuine,
0:25:58 > 0:26:01would have blown a hole
0:26:01 > 0:26:06in the entire founding legend of the Mormon church.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09It took the story of Joseph Smith
0:26:09 > 0:26:13from being the great spiritual experience we believed,
0:26:13 > 0:26:17and moved it into the realm of the occult.
0:26:17 > 0:26:20So it was a controversial document.
0:26:24 > 0:26:29Hofmann knew that such a subversive forgery would be scrutinised.
0:26:29 > 0:26:34He went to extraordinary lengths to evade detection.
0:26:34 > 0:26:39It was written in the hand of John Smith's scribe, Martin Harris.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43No other examples of his handwriting existed.
0:26:43 > 0:26:48He made sure there'd been a delivery on that day in 1830.
0:26:48 > 0:26:52He even checked that the recipient had been at home.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55His research paid off.
0:26:55 > 0:27:02Many experts experts examined the letter, including Kenneth Rendell, who exposed the Hitler diaries.
0:27:04 > 0:27:08I can recall precisely where
0:27:08 > 0:27:13Mark Hofmann came up to me in Boston
0:27:13 > 0:27:20and asked me to look at this letter, to see if there was any indication there wasn't anything genuine.
0:27:20 > 0:27:24I examined the letter and did a fair amount of research.
0:27:24 > 0:27:31The report I wrote stated there was nothing to prove it was a forgery.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38Rendell was not alone.
0:27:38 > 0:27:44None of the experts who examined the letter found evidence of forgery.
0:27:44 > 0:27:49Hofmann believed the church would want to keep the document quiet.
0:27:49 > 0:27:53He offered it to them for 100,000.
0:27:53 > 0:27:57To his surprise, the church refused.
0:28:00 > 0:28:08Eventually, Hofmann sold it to a devout Mormon businessman, Stephen Christiansen, for 40,000.
0:28:08 > 0:28:12Hofmann leaked the contents to the press.
0:28:12 > 0:28:16Soon journalists were chasing the story.
0:28:16 > 0:28:19For the moment, he had won.
0:28:19 > 0:28:24He had got his money and made a mockery of the Mormon church.
0:28:24 > 0:28:29The reactions among church members varied according to the individual.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32Some were disturbed by the document.
0:28:32 > 0:28:38I know one individual whose faith was somewhat shaken by that document.
0:28:38 > 0:28:43He declined in his faith and mental stability and committed suicide.
0:28:49 > 0:28:53Mark Hofmann made many people question their faith.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56He took them into their soul.
0:28:59 > 0:29:05If you are a latter-day saint, you don't just go to church on Sunday, you are committed to it.
0:29:05 > 0:29:10And if someone begins to show you sources that make you doubt this,
0:29:10 > 0:29:15you feel guilty that you questioned yourself, that you questioned God.
0:29:15 > 0:29:20It's a very evil, dark thing. Many will never forgive Mark Hofmann.
0:29:20 > 0:29:24Hofmann seemed unstoppable.
0:29:24 > 0:29:28His documents had fooled all the experts.
0:29:28 > 0:29:35The Mormon world was no longer big enough for him. He decided to take on America.
0:29:35 > 0:29:39BRENT ASHWORTH: He forged nearly every American icon.
0:29:39 > 0:29:44He forged many documents proporting to be by Daniel Boone,
0:29:44 > 0:29:49documents by Abraham Lincoln, by George and Martha Washington...
0:29:49 > 0:29:54Mark Twain documents. He forged Jack London documents.
0:29:54 > 0:29:58Walt Whitman, Herman Melville... the list goes on and on.
0:29:58 > 0:30:03Hofmann worked his way through the biggest names in American history,
0:30:03 > 0:30:08making thousands of dollars from each. But it wasn't enough.
0:30:08 > 0:30:14He forged a legendary manuscript that was a crucial chapter in the story of America:
0:30:14 > 0:30:17The Oath Of A Freeman.
0:30:23 > 0:30:27He got the idea for forging The Oath Of A Freeman
0:30:27 > 0:30:32on the way home from a trip to New York, he'd been to an auction.
0:30:32 > 0:30:37He saw listed in the catalogue a book. In that book it talked about
0:30:37 > 0:30:41the very first item printed in the United States.
0:30:42 > 0:30:48It instantly came to him that that thing could be incredibly valuable.
0:30:48 > 0:30:53Then he started researching, went to the library
0:30:53 > 0:31:00and carefully cut out paper from some books that were in the stacks at the time.
0:31:00 > 0:31:04Then, from speculation, wrote out the text.
0:31:04 > 0:31:08He made an investigastation into formulations of ink
0:31:08 > 0:31:11and then printed it with a little hand press.
0:31:11 > 0:31:17At the time the asking price was a million dollars.
0:31:17 > 0:31:21The Oath Of A Freeman was an audacious forgery.
0:31:21 > 0:31:27The genuine oath was printed less than 20 years after the sailing of the Mayflower.
0:31:27 > 0:31:31It had disappeared from sight hundreds of years ago.
0:31:31 > 0:31:35It was the first pledge of loyalty settlers made to their new world.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38It was a missing link in American history.
0:31:38 > 0:31:45The Library of Congress agreed to pay one million dollars for this piece of paper.
0:31:45 > 0:31:49But first, they needed to be sure it was genuine.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51They began forensic tests.
0:31:51 > 0:31:56Hofmann was convinced his forgery would fool their experts.
0:31:58 > 0:32:04Too impatient to wait for the deal to go through, he started to spend.
0:32:04 > 0:32:09He had put down around five or ten thousand dollars earnest money
0:32:09 > 0:32:12on a half a million dollar home.
0:32:12 > 0:32:18To an extent he was just over-stretching.
0:32:18 > 0:32:22This nine-bedroom house, why do we need nine bedrooms?!
0:32:22 > 0:32:25This huge acre lot, I'm thinking,
0:32:25 > 0:32:29"He doesn't mow the lawn, who's going to mow it - me!"
0:32:29 > 0:32:35I was fighting this and he said, "You choose a house because one or the other we're going to buy.
0:32:35 > 0:32:39"If you don't choose, I will. We're doing it."
0:32:39 > 0:32:47By summer of 1985, the Library of Congress had yet to commit to buying the Oath Of A Freeman.
0:32:47 > 0:32:50Hofmann was desperate for money.
0:32:53 > 0:32:56'He started running fraudulent investing schemes.'
0:32:56 > 0:33:02Basically, you take money from an investor to invest in a spurious project,
0:33:02 > 0:33:10then you produce a profit, give the money back and convince the investor that you've made him the money.
0:33:10 > 0:33:15Then he puts more money in and you go up and up and up.
0:33:15 > 0:33:21These fraudulent investment schemes that he was running, were coming back to haunt him.
0:33:21 > 0:33:26People were pressuring him to pay back debts.
0:33:33 > 0:33:40We evaluated how much he owed to see what kind of trouble he was in,
0:33:40 > 0:33:45see if we could assess what kind of pressure might have played into him.
0:33:45 > 0:33:49We had him owing 10,000 for some work to one person.
0:33:49 > 0:33:5720,000 to another person. 20,000 here, 3,500 he owed in back house payments.
0:33:57 > 0:34:01110,000 on a limited partnership with a few investors.
0:34:01 > 0:34:05He owed about 132,000 to Al Rust.
0:34:05 > 0:34:10180,000 towards a payment on a new house he was to buy.
0:34:10 > 0:34:15So he runs up over a million dollars that he's in debt.
0:34:15 > 0:34:20When things started to fall apart he would get a lot of calls
0:34:20 > 0:34:23that were angry, that I had to take.
0:34:23 > 0:34:27He said things would be OK, and sometimes they would be.
0:34:27 > 0:34:34They'd call back and he would take care of it. Sometimes they'd be really unhappy and they'd tell me
0:34:34 > 0:34:40because they couldn't tell him. That was hard, cos I had to hear angry, yelling people.
0:34:40 > 0:34:45Of course they were mad because they were losing thousands of dollars.
0:34:45 > 0:34:49The Oath Of A Freeman had by now passed its forensic tests.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52But the Library of Congress was stalling.
0:34:52 > 0:34:57Desperate, Hofmann went back to his best customers, the Mormans.
0:34:57 > 0:35:03He started a rumour that he'd located a collection of controversial Mormon documents.
0:35:03 > 0:35:10William McLellin was an early church leader, who left and became one of its bitterest enemies.
0:35:10 > 0:35:18By the time he died, he had purportedly acquired a collection of materials about the church's history.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21Mark Hofmann began to circulate rumours
0:35:21 > 0:35:27that he had discovered the McLellin collection.
0:35:27 > 0:35:32Hofmann never intended to produce the McLellin collection.
0:35:32 > 0:35:36Forging so many documents would have taken years.
0:35:36 > 0:35:41It was simply a way to raise money, stall angry investors.
0:35:41 > 0:35:47He called Steve Christensen, the man who had bought the Salamander letter.
0:35:47 > 0:35:50He said he needed money up front
0:35:50 > 0:35:53to buy the collection from an undisclosed source.
0:35:53 > 0:35:58Christensen couldn't help, but called the church.
0:35:58 > 0:36:03A Mormon elder arranged a bank loan of 185,000 dollars.
0:36:03 > 0:36:10Hofmann took the money, but it wasn't enough to get him out of trouble.
0:36:10 > 0:36:14He said that this collection was in New York
0:36:14 > 0:36:18and that it was very valuable - 185,000.
0:36:18 > 0:36:25I told him "No, Mark, I'm not interested and I don't have that kind of money to put up."
0:36:27 > 0:36:32He persuaded me, in a friendly way, that if I could put up the money,
0:36:32 > 0:36:34it would be very profitable to me.
0:36:34 > 0:36:39I didn't have the money, but I had a good line of credit
0:36:39 > 0:36:45and so I borrowed the money from the bank and I put it up.
0:36:45 > 0:36:53Both Steve Christensen and Al Rust were now expecting delivery of a collection that didn't exist.
0:36:53 > 0:36:59Hofmann needed to keep them at bay. Under pressure, he made his first big mistake.
0:36:59 > 0:37:04He bought some genuine Egyptian papyrus from a dealer in Boston
0:37:04 > 0:37:11and gave it to Christensen, saying it was a sample of the McLellin collection.
0:37:11 > 0:37:15Hofmann didn't know that the man he bought the papyrus from,
0:37:15 > 0:37:19was coming to Saltlake City to see Steve Christensen.
0:37:19 > 0:37:23If the two men met, Hofmann's fraud would be exposed.
0:37:23 > 0:37:31"Why was I coming?", he kept asking. I said to see Brent, Steve...
0:37:31 > 0:37:37and I reeled off a whole bunch of people that I knew Hofmann knew. Hofmann was really shaken up.
0:37:37 > 0:37:42His whole forging career would have been up right then.
0:37:42 > 0:37:47Rendell would have said, "I sold this to Mark Hofmann six months ago,
0:37:47 > 0:37:52"it has nothing to do with the McLellin collection."
0:37:53 > 0:38:00I would have recognised these pieces. It would have all come apart.
0:38:02 > 0:38:09Hofmann had to stop Christensen and Rendell meeting. The pressure was building.
0:38:09 > 0:38:14He seemed like he was running around. I'd heard about him borrowing money.
0:38:14 > 0:38:18He wanted to borrow, incidentally, another...
0:38:18 > 0:38:23Gosh, it was a large amount of money. He needed 100,000 right now.
0:38:23 > 0:38:28He needed it because somebody was demanding they pay him back
0:38:28 > 0:38:31money that he owed them.
0:38:31 > 0:38:35I guess this guy got upset and punched him.
0:38:35 > 0:38:41He had piled on himself so many lies and so many deceptions
0:38:41 > 0:38:46and had stretched so many people out on things that didn't exist,
0:38:46 > 0:38:52that there was no way that he could get out of it.
0:38:53 > 0:38:58Still, I'm firmly convinced all that he does, he's thinking,
0:38:58 > 0:39:01"How am I going to get out of this?"
0:39:04 > 0:39:08Hofmann was under pressure from all sides.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12Finally, Steve Christensen gave him an ultimatum -
0:39:12 > 0:39:16to deliver the McLellin collection or repay 185,000.
0:39:16 > 0:39:19Hofmann was cornered...
0:39:19 > 0:39:21and dangerous.
0:39:38 > 0:39:42Mark Hofmann drove out into the Salt Lake desert.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46He stopped the car,
0:39:46 > 0:39:51took a length of pipe, gun powder, wire and a toy rocket igniter
0:39:51 > 0:39:53and assembled a pipe bomb.
0:39:53 > 0:39:59He watched as the bomb detonated successfully.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07Four days later,
0:40:07 > 0:40:12Hofmann left the house with two brown paper packages.
0:40:23 > 0:40:28At 8am on Tuesday 15th October, 1985,
0:40:28 > 0:40:30a pipe bomb exploded.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35Steve Christensen was killed.
0:40:44 > 0:40:50It was very unpleasant. His face was apparently close to the device.
0:40:50 > 0:40:53There was soot in his face.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57I believe a battery had embedded in his chin.
0:40:58 > 0:41:04This device had been wrapped with concrete nails,
0:41:04 > 0:41:06meant to kill.
0:41:09 > 0:41:15It just threw everything into a tremendous whirlwind.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18'Course, no-one knew what was going on.
0:41:21 > 0:41:26I turned the radio on. By then they'd identified the person.
0:41:26 > 0:41:30Everybody was talking about it as being Steve Christensen.
0:41:30 > 0:41:35And I thought, "Oh, no, not the guy involved with the Salamander Letter."
0:41:38 > 0:41:41We were there, working the scene.
0:41:41 > 0:41:47We were notified at about 11 o'clock, when we'd been there three hours,
0:41:47 > 0:41:51that there was another apparent bombing,
0:41:51 > 0:41:53with a fatality also.
0:42:00 > 0:42:05Around half past ten, the second bomb exploded.
0:42:05 > 0:42:08Kathleen Sheets was killed.
0:42:08 > 0:42:13I remember a plain-clothes officer came and got me out of class.
0:42:13 > 0:42:17He told me there'd been an accident at my home.
0:42:21 > 0:42:26I remember hoping it was a ticket I had, or that I was in trouble.
0:42:26 > 0:42:28But I knew somebody had been killed.
0:42:28 > 0:42:33And I remember the car ride to the police station.
0:42:33 > 0:42:38I remember it being the longest drive I've ever had.
0:42:41 > 0:42:45I remember my dad coming out of the police station.
0:42:45 > 0:42:48He told me there what had happened.
0:42:53 > 0:42:56The Sheets bombing was just a ruse
0:42:56 > 0:43:03for Hofmann to distract from his problems with Steve Christensen and others.
0:43:05 > 0:43:10It would be nothing other than just a red herring.
0:43:11 > 0:43:16Hofmann assumed that Christensen's death would delay the McLellin deal.
0:43:16 > 0:43:19He was wrong.
0:43:19 > 0:43:22Christensen was just a middle man.
0:43:22 > 0:43:26Killing Christensen should've done it.
0:43:26 > 0:43:30What he didn't count on was the fellow who was making the purchase
0:43:30 > 0:43:38found someone else to act for him the next day. It was all for nothing. Didn't put it off one day.
0:43:38 > 0:43:42He had told him, "As soon as the bank opens, you'll have it.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45"It's in the safety deposit box."
0:43:45 > 0:43:50And, you know, you can imagine the wild-eyed panic there must have been,
0:43:50 > 0:43:56because they were going to a safety deposit box with nothing inside.
0:44:08 > 0:44:12The following day at half past two,
0:44:12 > 0:44:14a third bomb exploded.
0:44:19 > 0:44:22Mark Hofmann was seriously injured.
0:44:27 > 0:44:31I heard on the news what had happened.
0:44:31 > 0:44:34Then I got a call that it was Mark.
0:44:34 > 0:44:36I asked my sister to drive me down.
0:44:36 > 0:44:40I didn't want to drive. I was really upset.
0:44:40 > 0:44:45There was all kinds of media people there. Police or whoever.
0:44:45 > 0:44:48Lot of stuff happening in the hospital.
0:44:48 > 0:44:54None of it made sense to me. Why is he in a car that's been bombed?
0:44:54 > 0:44:56Are they trying to track them down?
0:44:56 > 0:44:59Not really able to get any response.
0:44:59 > 0:45:03That's not where their viewpoint is. It's in a different place than mine.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07- Straight away? - Yeah. Yes, straight away.
0:45:09 > 0:45:12His car blew up about...
0:45:12 > 0:45:14here.
0:45:14 > 0:45:17Again, pretty steep hill here.
0:45:17 > 0:45:20Parked here, parallel to the kerb.
0:45:20 > 0:45:22He was blown out of the car.
0:45:26 > 0:45:29Hofmann was interviewed at hospital.
0:45:29 > 0:45:35He opened his car door, a package fell off the seat and blew up.
0:45:35 > 0:45:37And that's all he basically knew.
0:45:39 > 0:45:42Gerry Taylor, ATF bomb technician,
0:45:42 > 0:45:46had by then a couple of hours to work on the crime scene.
0:45:46 > 0:45:51He said, "He's your bomber. That's not what happened."
0:45:51 > 0:45:57The bomb went off on the seat, it didn't go off on the floor. "Now you gotta prove it."
0:46:01 > 0:46:03They wanted the keys of the house.
0:46:03 > 0:46:07That's when they did the first search.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10I watched it on TV in the hospital.
0:46:11 > 0:46:16Just watching, on the TV, all of this circus in my house.
0:46:16 > 0:46:22Watching them take bags out, the news people talking about it,
0:46:22 > 0:46:24all the cameras outside my house.
0:46:24 > 0:46:29And then having my husband's family telling me,
0:46:29 > 0:46:34"This is all your fault. It's because of you this is happening."
0:46:34 > 0:46:40They felt like I was making a situation where he was having to make more money,
0:46:40 > 0:46:44because I was wanting to have more.
0:46:45 > 0:46:49I had one side here, then the news and police wanting to question me.
0:46:49 > 0:46:54It was a great day(!) It was really good(!)
0:46:57 > 0:47:02When you have a murder case, you gotta have a motive.
0:47:02 > 0:47:08We needed to establish that because we had no idea why Mark Hofmann would kill Steve Christensen,
0:47:08 > 0:47:11or anybody in the Sheets family.
0:47:21 > 0:47:28After two weeks, the police still didn't have a motive for the bombings.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31Hofmann went home from hospital.
0:47:33 > 0:47:38Family, friends and neighbours were certain of his innocence.
0:47:38 > 0:47:44Those of us who knew him laughed at the idea that he was involved in it.
0:47:44 > 0:47:50I asked him to give me...to write an autograph with his left hand.
0:47:50 > 0:47:55Our friend Shannon Flynn then added his signature and a quote,
0:47:55 > 0:47:59"Truth will prevail." I guess it did. Yeah.
0:47:59 > 0:48:06So I go to his home and visit with him. My first question was, "Did you kill them?"
0:48:06 > 0:48:11Police had been into my store every day telling me what was going on.
0:48:11 > 0:48:16They said, "He's guilty as hell", is the words they used.
0:48:16 > 0:48:19And I said, "No, he's not."
0:48:19 > 0:48:24So I asked him. "No, I did not kill these people."
0:48:24 > 0:48:30I said, "Well, where is the McLellin collection?"
0:48:30 > 0:48:35He said, "My attorney's advised me that I can't really tell you.
0:48:35 > 0:48:39"I assure you you'll get your money, no problem."
0:48:39 > 0:48:44And I believed him in the end. I was duped completely by him.
0:48:44 > 0:48:48A week later, I called for another appointment.
0:48:48 > 0:48:54I had a couple of trick questions. I can't remember what they were.
0:48:54 > 0:49:00I asked him, and happened to glance up and there was a smirk on his face
0:49:00 > 0:49:05that just told me he was guilty of murder
0:49:05 > 0:49:10and also of not having the McLellin collection.
0:49:10 > 0:49:16I left his home within 30 seconds of seeing the smirk on his face.
0:49:16 > 0:49:22I got to my car and that's when I realised that he was guilty
0:49:22 > 0:49:24and that I was in a serious mess.
0:49:26 > 0:49:31The Church had told the police about the McLellin Collection
0:49:31 > 0:49:36and fraud was suspected. But still no-one had considered forgery.
0:49:37 > 0:49:44By chance, forensic examiner George Throckmorton was studying Mormon documents.
0:49:44 > 0:49:49Several of them had originally come from Mark Hofmann.
0:49:49 > 0:49:52I was convinced they were genuine,
0:49:52 > 0:49:55till I started doing the examination
0:49:55 > 0:49:58and started finding inconsistencies.
0:49:58 > 0:50:01When I contacted the investigators
0:50:01 > 0:50:05conducting the investigation of the crime, they were elated.
0:50:05 > 0:50:10They had no idea they were forged and they were looking for a motive.
0:50:10 > 0:50:15Why were the murders committed? Why were the bombs set? Now they knew.
0:50:15 > 0:50:17There's a possibility of forgeries.
0:50:17 > 0:50:23It took six months of analysis to prove the documents were forged.
0:50:23 > 0:50:29The ink on the documents, under a certain degree of magnification,
0:50:29 > 0:50:34and only this degree of magnification, exhibited cracking.
0:50:34 > 0:50:42It looked similar to the back of an alligator. All of Hofmann's documents had this alligator effect.
0:50:42 > 0:50:46Hofmann's forgeries had fooled all previous tests.
0:50:46 > 0:50:52His one mistake was to age his documents with household bleach.
0:50:52 > 0:50:58Under ultraviolet light there was a certain blue-coloured hazing effect.
0:50:58 > 0:51:05It was the chemicals in the cleaning solution which also attributed to the cracking of the ink.
0:51:05 > 0:51:08CHILDREN CHATTER
0:51:14 > 0:51:16By December 1985,
0:51:16 > 0:51:21evidence linking Hofmann to the murders was mounting.
0:51:21 > 0:51:26Witnesses claimed to have seen him at the scenes of both bombings.
0:51:26 > 0:51:31A fleck of gunpowder of the correct type had been found in his van.
0:51:31 > 0:51:38Bomb parts had been bought under the name Mike Hansen, an alias he was shown to have used.
0:51:44 > 0:51:46In February 1986,
0:51:46 > 0:51:52four months after the bombings, Hofmann was arrested for murder.
0:51:53 > 0:51:57After a five-week preliminary hearing,
0:51:57 > 0:52:02facing a probable death sentence, he came to a decision.
0:52:02 > 0:52:07- Did Mark tell you he was going to confess?- He did.
0:52:11 > 0:52:14He did tell me that, right before.
0:52:17 > 0:52:22And I said, "What's going on, why are you doing this?"
0:52:22 > 0:52:25Again, I don't know what to believe.
0:52:25 > 0:52:31He's told me so many stories. Here's another wonderful story.
0:52:31 > 0:52:38He says, "Well, I didn't do this. But someone is framing me. They're making it look like I did it.
0:52:38 > 0:52:44"If I don't confess, they'll come back. You and the kids will die.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47"If I don't go, you'll die."
0:52:49 > 0:52:54That sounds like a plausible story. Doesn't it? Doesn't that sound OK?
0:52:54 > 0:52:57And I was like...
0:52:57 > 0:53:01And he said, "I didn't do this, but I'm saying I did."
0:53:01 > 0:53:04Then he had this whole story.
0:53:04 > 0:53:09You're saying, "Is that true? Then why would he do that?
0:53:09 > 0:53:14"Maybe he's guilty." What do you think? I didn't know what to think.
0:53:16 > 0:53:20The easiest thing to think is that he's innocent.
0:53:20 > 0:53:26What a wonderful guy, doing this for his wife and children.
0:53:26 > 0:53:28That's the easiest thing to go to.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34So that's where I went.
0:53:35 > 0:53:40Because of his confession, Hofmann avoided the death penalty.
0:53:40 > 0:53:44He was sentenced to life in prison.
0:53:48 > 0:53:51One day at the store, I got a call.
0:53:51 > 0:53:57We have a court order that the materials here in the evidence room
0:53:57 > 0:54:00should come to you.
0:54:00 > 0:54:04If there's any value in there, hopefully you can recover.
0:54:04 > 0:54:10I opened a box or two and it was so depressing I just let them sit there.
0:54:10 > 0:54:16We stored them in the shed and it's been there now for, what...?
0:54:16 > 0:54:19Over 15 years.
0:54:19 > 0:54:23From inside your home or office
0:54:23 > 0:54:28you can be sure a terrorist never passes through your door.
0:54:28 > 0:54:35That... I guess he was taking precautions that no-one would come into his home.
0:54:42 > 0:54:45"Aborting defectives...
0:54:45 > 0:54:51"It's now possible by identifying an embryo's certain hereditary defects
0:54:51 > 0:54:54"such as mongolism."
0:54:54 > 0:54:58This is his writing. I don't know. "Personhood versus life.
0:54:58 > 0:55:02"Do not equate personhood with life.
0:55:02 > 0:55:06"Persons are dependent on life because consciousness cannot emerge
0:55:06 > 0:55:11"until biological development has progressed to a certain point.
0:55:13 > 0:55:15"Basic moral judgement."
0:55:16 > 0:55:20I guess this is some of his beliefs.
0:55:20 > 0:55:23Kind of neat subjects, aren't they?
0:55:23 > 0:55:26"Rights of science."
0:55:28 > 0:55:30Peculiar.
0:55:37 > 0:55:42Over a period of months I made visits out there
0:55:42 > 0:55:45and would just talk with him.
0:55:45 > 0:55:47Is he remorseful?
0:55:50 > 0:55:53I don't know if he is.
0:55:54 > 0:55:57He knew full well what he was doing.
0:55:57 > 0:56:01He's very bright. Has a very high IQ.
0:56:01 > 0:56:06He has a capacity to lie that just staggers the imagination.
0:56:06 > 0:56:12I think he's different than most in that in the end, he had no limit.
0:56:15 > 0:56:20I trusted him implicitly. I wouldn't say it was a father/son relationship,
0:56:20 > 0:56:26it wasn't that close. But up until these events happened,
0:56:26 > 0:56:28I look back
0:56:28 > 0:56:34and maybe that's the hardest part of it all.
0:56:34 > 0:56:39Because I felt I was betrayed by a very close friend.
0:56:39 > 0:56:45And money is one thing. You can cope with that.
0:56:45 > 0:56:48I've never missed a meal, you can tell.
0:56:48 > 0:56:54But to believe in someone and believe that it's a good friendship,
0:56:54 > 0:56:58you'd do anything for each other and that... It just wasn't the case.
0:56:58 > 0:57:03When I found out what had happened, it was devastating.
0:57:14 > 0:57:18Come here. HE BLOWS KISSES
0:57:21 > 0:57:25Oh! That was good, Mike!
0:57:25 > 0:57:28Patty cake, patty cake, baker's man.
0:57:28 > 0:57:33'I still have a hard time thinking he did this.
0:57:33 > 0:57:38'The thought that he would actually kill somebody? It's like, no way.'
0:57:38 > 0:57:41Say Daddy. Dad-dy.
0:57:43 > 0:57:47She's crying. She's tired.
0:57:47 > 0:57:55I have a hard time with...with... reconciling in my mind that he could...
0:57:55 > 0:58:00be with me, he could be with his kids, he could be loving and fun,
0:58:00 > 0:58:04and have this whole other piece - that he could live with himself.
0:58:04 > 0:58:07It is...I have a hard time with it.
0:58:07 > 0:58:11With...with...that he could do that.
0:58:11 > 0:58:15- But do you think he did? - Yeah. I think he did. I do.
0:58:15 > 0:58:22And that's hard to say. That's hard for me to say. Because I don't want to believe it.
0:58:29 > 0:58:32I haven't seen him since then.
0:58:32 > 0:58:36He's still mad. He's still angry about this.
0:58:36 > 0:58:40I'm the one that got away. He doesn't like that.
0:58:53 > 0:58:57Subtitles by BBC Broadcast 2003
0:58:57 > 0:59:02E-mail us at subtitling@bbc.co.uk