Sundance 2013

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:00:02. > :00:09.degrees. Sunday's for cars has the rain clearing away from the South

:00:09. > :00:13.West corner -- south-east corner. Showers will creep in from the West

:00:13. > :00:17.and they could be wintry in Scotland. We are concerned about

:00:17. > :00:23.some flooding over the next couple of days. Sunday night may have a

:00:23. > :00:30.few showers around. It will stay quite breezy and after a window of

:00:30. > :00:40.drier weather, yet more brain is on the cards for Monday. The saturated

:00:40. > :00:47.

:00:48. > :00:51.ground will see another batch of A gunman wearing a gas mask has

:00:51. > :00:55.died after attempting to rob a bookmaker in Plymouth. Police say

:00:55. > :00:59.he was pinned down and disarmed by customers but was unconscious when

:00:59. > :01:03.emergency services arrived and declared dead at the scene.

:01:03. > :01:09.The Government insists its economic plan is working, after figures

:01:09. > :01:13.suggested a drop in the country's output. GDP dropped by 0.3% in the

:01:13. > :01:16.last three months of 2012. Labour says the coalition has been

:01:16. > :01:19.complacent. Five people are reported to have

:01:20. > :01:23.been killed and hundreds injured in violent protests in Egypt, marking

:01:23. > :01:27.the second anniversary of the revolt that toppled President Hosni

:01:27. > :01:30.Mubarak. Demonstrators say the government has betrayed the ideals

:01:30. > :01:35.of the revolution. Bad weather continues to cause

:01:35. > :01:39.problems for much of the UK. Severe snowfall is affecting parts of

:01:39. > :01:43.Scotland and northern England. The Met Office says there could be

:01:43. > :01:53.flooding this weekend, with a thaw and heavy rain forecast.

:01:53. > :01:58.

:01:58. > :02:02.Now it is time for HARDtalk. From Is it time for the doom mongers to

:02:02. > :02:07.admit they were wrong about the world economy? The eurozone is

:02:07. > :02:11.intact, just. The US has not plunged off the fiscal cliff, and

:02:12. > :02:16.even the most stagnant economy, Japan, is showing signs of life.

:02:16. > :02:20.Could it be that central bankers and politicians are finally ready

:02:20. > :02:26.to take bold decisions in their quest for growth. My guest today is

:02:26. > :02:36.one of the world's most influential investors, the boss of the massive

:02:36. > :03:02.

:03:02. > :03:07.fund management business. Caution, From Newport Beach, California,

:03:07. > :03:11.welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you, Stephen. Last time we spoke, going

:03:11. > :03:16.back a couple of years, you were gloomy about the outlook for the

:03:16. > :03:24.world economy. One word you used to some of your feelings was

:03:24. > :03:32."terrifying". Has that fear gone now? To some extent, but not

:03:32. > :03:37.completely. I was terrified about the prospects of sluggish growth,

:03:37. > :03:41.persistently high unemployment, and social unrest. And what we have

:03:41. > :03:45.seen over the last couple of years is exactly that - sluggish growth,

:03:45. > :03:54.high unemployment and unrest in certain countries, like Greece.

:03:54. > :04:01.However, we have also seen actions taken that have delayed the second

:04:01. > :04:06.stage. I am glad, because as a parent, I would rather see the

:04:06. > :04:09.world going concerned than into a bad state. For a long time I have

:04:09. > :04:14.had the impression that you have filled political leaders around the

:04:14. > :04:19.world, and maybe most particularly in the advanced economies, were not

:04:19. > :04:23.up to the task of finding coherent strategies for growth. Do you feel

:04:23. > :04:31.it is time to modify the negative view you had of political

:04:31. > :04:36.leadership? So, I wish I could say yes, but not yet. So the reason why

:04:36. > :04:40.the global system is in a somewhat better place has very little to do

:04:40. > :04:44.with politicians and much more to do with central bankers. Central

:04:44. > :04:48.bankers have stepped up to the plate, as they say here in the

:04:48. > :04:52.States. They have used exceptional measures. It is like a drug company

:04:52. > :04:56.putting out a medication that has not even been clinically tested.

:04:56. > :04:59.That is what central banks have done, and they have bought time for

:04:59. > :05:05.politicians to get their act together. But the politicians have

:05:05. > :05:09.not, as yet, done their bit. They have not yet stepped up to the

:05:09. > :05:12.responsibility of promoting economic growth. It strikes me

:05:12. > :05:18.there is one country right now where the relationship between

:05:18. > :05:23.politicians and central bankers may be, reform might be being changed

:05:23. > :05:26.in an important and fundamental way. That is Japan, where we have the

:05:27. > :05:33.new Prime Minister with a clear democratic mandate to take some

:05:33. > :05:38.pretty dramatic economic policy decisions, decisions that he will

:05:38. > :05:41.impose, in a sense, he is imposing on the central bank, all about

:05:41. > :05:44.listening Monetary Policy and changing the key objectives which

:05:44. > :05:49.the central bank has worked towards. Do you see that as fundamentally

:05:50. > :05:54.important? Yes, because it tells us a few things about how the global

:05:54. > :06:00.system is operating. Japan is being forced into this step because it

:06:00. > :06:03.has had its currency appreciate. Another way of putting it is if one

:06:03. > :06:09.central bank is pumping a lot of liquidity in, as the Fed is doing

:06:09. > :06:13.in the US, other people have very difficult choices. Either they

:06:13. > :06:17.accept the consequences of what the Fed is doing and see their currency

:06:17. > :06:22.appreciate, and it hollows out their economy, as has happened to

:06:22. > :06:25.Japan, or they decide to join the Fed into what is called

:06:25. > :06:29.irresponsible Responsibility. So you are being irresponsible because

:06:29. > :06:33.you are not reacting with your first best measure, but it is the

:06:33. > :06:38.right thing to do because someone else is doing the responsible thing,

:06:38. > :06:43.too. Here is where people look at you not just as an influential

:06:43. > :06:48.commentator, but as a real player. Because you, with your fund, you

:06:48. > :06:52.look around the world for the wisest place to put your investors'

:06:52. > :06:57.money, particularly in bonds, fixed-income products, including

:06:57. > :07:02.government bonds. I wonder what you look at the Japanese attempt to

:07:02. > :07:06.stimulate the economy, which means we can expect a rise in inflation

:07:06. > :07:09.in Japan, expect a devalued currency, and both of those carry

:07:09. > :07:15.some dangers, do you look at what is happening in Japan and think it

:07:15. > :07:18.is still a place you want to put money? You sound like a good

:07:18. > :07:21.investment manager because he said exactly what is going to happen.

:07:21. > :07:27.They will target higher inflation, weaken the currency, as they have

:07:27. > :07:32.already, and the rest of us have to react to that. So our role, as

:07:32. > :07:36.guardians of people's pensions, savings, investment, is to

:07:36. > :07:40.understand what is going on and navigate in a way that delivers

:07:40. > :07:44.returns and managers risk. So depended on which part of the

:07:44. > :07:48.Japanese market you look at, there are both opportunities and there

:07:48. > :07:52.are risks. The opportunities come from the fact that they are going

:07:52. > :07:55.for growth, and that is good for certain markets. The risk is that

:07:55. > :08:01.they are going to weaken the currency and therefore you have to

:08:01. > :08:05.be careful about holding Japanese yen. We are talking about a country

:08:05. > :08:13.with a really very large running budget deficit. Even worse than

:08:13. > :08:18.that, a massive debt mountain which adds up to over 220 % of GDP,

:08:18. > :08:22.national output. I am surprised you are sounding so sanguine about the

:08:22. > :08:25.prospects, talking about opportunities in Japan. It seems

:08:25. > :08:30.there is potential for massive collapse if the policy does not

:08:30. > :08:34.work. You are asking what is likely to happen. If you ask what should

:08:34. > :08:40.happen, we would have a different discussion. The reality right now,

:08:40. > :08:44.whether it is Japan, whether it is the eurozone, whether it is the US,

:08:44. > :08:49.everybody is taking short-term measures. They are not doing the

:08:49. > :08:53.hard work, which is structural reform, dealing with all sorts of

:08:53. > :08:57.economic, financial, social and political issues. Rather, they are

:08:57. > :09:01.looking to central banks to deliver short term outcomes. That is the

:09:01. > :09:05.reality of the world we live in. It goes back to what we said earlier,

:09:05. > :09:08.Stephen, that politicians have not stepped up to their

:09:08. > :09:14.responsibilities. Being a politician means making tough

:09:14. > :09:18.decisions. So far, very few wish to do so. Despite the time delay

:09:18. > :09:24.between us, I have to interrupt, because it is quite easy for you to

:09:24. > :09:27.sit there, managing other people's money, but not a man held to

:09:27. > :09:31.account by voters. You know as well as I do that voters around the

:09:31. > :09:36.world, particularly in the US, Europe and Japan, they have people

:09:36. > :09:39.who are not willing to accept high levels of unemployment and

:09:39. > :09:43.continued very sluggish growth. They have to deal with that. And it

:09:43. > :09:47.seems that one way they have decided best to deal with it is to

:09:47. > :09:51.continue with highly stimulative policies, including quantitative

:09:51. > :09:55.easing, including instructing central banks in some circumstances

:09:55. > :10:01.to not just be preoccupied with inflation targets, but also to

:10:01. > :10:05.think about removing the jobless as well, giving people new jobs.

:10:05. > :10:10.Surely that has got to be right for a politician. It is right for a

:10:10. > :10:14.politician to target higher growth and lower unemployment. I have been

:10:14. > :10:18.saying it non-stop. You have to do something about it. But it is wrong

:10:18. > :10:22.of politicians to think that central banks can deliver what I

:10:22. > :10:26.call the immaculate recovery. Even central bankers are warning,

:10:26. > :10:32.whether it is Mervyn King in the UK, Ben Bernanke in the US, they are

:10:32. > :10:35.saying, do not depend on us, you need to do your role, too. We can

:10:35. > :10:39.build the bridge but cannot deliver the destination. So the politicians

:10:39. > :10:43.are focusing on the bridge, and what the people want is a

:10:43. > :10:49.destination. That destination does not come until some pretty bold

:10:49. > :10:53.decisions are taken by politicians. I want to quote to the words of

:10:53. > :10:57.Paul Brockman, who has not been a huge fan of yours, because he

:10:57. > :11:01.thinks you have been deeply conservative and underestimated the

:11:01. > :11:04.importance of quantitative easing, for example. He says of Japan and

:11:04. > :11:08.the residents of Japan, something remarkable is happening because the

:11:08. > :11:14.country which pioneered the economics of stagnation may end up

:11:15. > :11:20.showing us a way out. He thinks this could be a watershed moment.

:11:20. > :11:26.wrote an article agreeing with him that starts by saying he is right.

:11:26. > :11:30.For him to deliver the watershed moment, which is possible - not

:11:30. > :11:33.probable but possible - you need the following. First, you need the

:11:33. > :11:38.Bank of Japan to be convinced it can deliver on what the Prime

:11:38. > :11:42.Minister wants to do. Second, you need a targeted fiscal stimulus.

:11:42. > :11:47.Japan has a really bad track record about delivering fiscal stimulus.

:11:47. > :11:51.They could not even do it after the earthquake and tsunami. Third, you

:11:51. > :11:55.need society lack -- to accept the short-term costs of higher

:11:55. > :12:01.inflation and higher gas prices. 4th, you need political harmony. We

:12:01. > :12:06.are looking at Japan, hoping that Japan can deliver, but not

:12:06. > :12:10.underestimating or they need to do. Let's broaden it out. He talked

:12:10. > :12:13.about Mervyn King, current governor of the Bank of England, and Ben

:12:13. > :12:16.Bernanke. There is one other big theme in the world economy, and

:12:16. > :12:21.that is the idea that some of the old orthodoxy about inflation being

:12:21. > :12:25.the only key priority for monetary policy and central bankers has to

:12:25. > :12:31.be modified. There has to be a broader look at central banks

:12:31. > :12:35.taking responsibility for growth, not just for inflation. The new guy,

:12:35. > :12:41.who is going to replace Mervyn King, coming from Canada, he seems to buy

:12:41. > :12:47.into that. Do you? I do. From day one I have recognised, and others

:12:47. > :12:49.have, that inflation is a means to an end. That end is improving

:12:49. > :12:53.living standards and better opportunity for all. History has

:12:53. > :12:57.shown that when you have high inflation, you do not just give up

:12:58. > :13:01.growth, but importantly you give up on income distribution, because the

:13:01. > :13:06.poor cannot protect themselves against high inflation as well as

:13:06. > :13:10.the rich can. So low and stable inflation is a means to an end.

:13:10. > :13:14.People are finally realising that you need to target the end more

:13:14. > :13:19.aggressively. I think that is a good thing. I just would not put

:13:19. > :13:22.all of the burden on central banks. It is a shared responsibility among

:13:22. > :13:27.different economic agencies nationally, and also a shared

:13:27. > :13:31.responsibility globally. We need much better policy co-ordination.

:13:31. > :13:35.Let's bring it closer to home and talk about the United States. When

:13:35. > :13:38.you talk about the need for policy makers across the piece to be on

:13:38. > :13:43.the same page and to have a coherent strategy for economic

:13:43. > :13:46.management, I imagine you are not actually thinking about the way in

:13:46. > :13:50.which the White House and the US Congress currently work together,

:13:50. > :13:55.or more precisely do not work together. The fiscal cliff was

:13:55. > :14:00.avoided, but is the sense of crisis around managing public finances in

:14:00. > :14:04.the United States still alive? Still alive is the underlying

:14:04. > :14:08.problem. The US does not have as much of an economic issue as it

:14:08. > :14:13.does a political issue. We are seeing an extreme degree of

:14:13. > :14:18.political dysfunction in Congress. I look at this, and it is the image

:14:18. > :14:22.of a divorcing couple arguing over a pillowcase. There are bigger

:14:22. > :14:26.issues in the estate, are bigger issues in the US. And our

:14:26. > :14:31.politicians can't even resolve the argument over a pillowcase. In fact,

:14:31. > :14:36.they create other pillowcases to argue about. If you are living in

:14:36. > :14:40.this country, you have very little confidence in Congress. Less than

:14:40. > :14:44.10% of the population think Congress is doing a good job. This

:14:44. > :14:48.political dysfunction is holding back growth and employment.

:14:48. > :14:55.Congresses, it seems, ready to kick the can down the road when it comes

:14:55. > :14:58.to the debt ceiling. -- congress is, it seems. They have to lift it

:14:58. > :15:02.above where it currently stands if the US government is not to default.

:15:02. > :15:07.It was going to come to a head in late February and now it seems it

:15:07. > :15:12.may be put back for another three months or so. Ben Bernanke says if

:15:12. > :15:22.this is not sorted, it could be a recovery-ending event. Is it right

:15:22. > :15:33.

:15:33. > :15:37.The longer this persists, the more the growth momentum while a decline.

:15:37. > :15:45.It is not just that this is dampening growth, it is also taking

:15:45. > :15:50.attention away from other issues. We need improvement in the function

:15:50. > :15:54.of the labour market. We need help on the functioning of the credit

:15:54. > :15:58.markets. They are still clucked, small businesses cannot get credit.

:15:58. > :16:02.We need help on the functioning of the housing market. There are a lot

:16:02. > :16:07.of items on the to do list of Congress but they are being crowded

:16:07. > :16:11.out by this continual fight over the fiscal issues that simply is

:16:11. > :16:16.repeated a month after month after month. Before we finish our quick

:16:16. > :16:19.tour of the world economy, I have to take you to Europe as well. We

:16:20. > :16:25.spoke last time about the future of the euro and you said there were

:16:25. > :16:29.very real fears that the euro in its current configuration would not

:16:29. > :16:33.survive. Again the Eurozone has pulled through a series of crisis,

:16:33. > :16:37.are you prepared to say you were wrong about the durability of the

:16:37. > :16:41.common currency? I certainly underestimated the extent to which

:16:41. > :16:46.the Europeans would throw money at the problem and the delayed dealing

:16:46. > :16:51.with the fundamental issue which is that countries like Greece are

:16:51. > :16:56.unable to grow within the eurozone and that difficult decisions have

:16:56. > :17:03.to be made. Where I still stand is something is going to have to give

:17:03. > :17:10.up. Either the Eurozone will transition to a smaller, less

:17:10. > :17:15.imperfect Eurozone or Germany and other strong economies are going to

:17:15. > :17:20.sign up to endless checks to countries like Greece. One of the

:17:20. > :17:25.two decisions will be made in the next 12 months or 24 months. To be

:17:25. > :17:30.clear about this, Mohamed el-Arian, just the other day in the studio I

:17:30. > :17:36.had the vice-president of the European Commission tell me quite

:17:36. > :17:41.confidently that the period of existential threat for the euro was

:17:41. > :17:45.categorically over. In your view was he being premature? I have

:17:45. > :17:50.always said the euro survives, the question is what does the Eurozone

:17:50. > :17:54.look like? Here is a question that has to be made -- here is a choice

:17:54. > :17:59.that has to be made by European countries. One is to opt for

:17:59. > :18:04.something that works better because there is better political, economic,

:18:04. > :18:08.banking integration. That is one possibility. The other one is to

:18:08. > :18:12.say, you know what, we are going to maintain a political project that

:18:12. > :18:16.does not make total economic sense but that is OK because the

:18:16. > :18:20.creditors will subsidise the debtors embassy. They have to make

:18:20. > :18:25.a decision and until they make that decision growth will not

:18:25. > :18:29.materialise in the poorer economies and unemployment will remain too

:18:29. > :18:32.high. You 0.2 decisions that are yet to be made and you point to the

:18:32. > :18:38.way in which new forms of integration have to buttress the

:18:38. > :18:43.strength of the Eurozone which leads me very easily to a

:18:43. > :18:50.discussion of the historic decision taken by David Cameron to go for

:18:51. > :19:00.the gamble of a dinner-out referendum here in Britain on

:19:01. > :19:02.

:19:02. > :19:08.membership of the European Union. The thought is he will negotiate a

:19:08. > :19:12.loser settlement and put it to the people in a referendum. As an

:19:12. > :19:17.outside observers and an investor in Europe, what do you think of the

:19:17. > :19:20.strategy he is now adopting? Having lived for years in Britain, both

:19:20. > :19:24.school and university, it does not surprise me that he has gone down

:19:25. > :19:31.that path. I remember how strongly people felt about the British

:19:31. > :19:39.sausage, I remember a comedy series about it so it does not surprise me.

:19:39. > :19:42.It speaks to till very important issues. Britain used European Union

:19:42. > :19:47.as a means to an end, it is a common market that leads to more

:19:47. > :19:51.trade and more employment. The Europeans, especially the Germans

:19:51. > :19:56.and French, see it as an end in itself, it is about political

:19:56. > :19:59.integration, it is about reducing the risk of something terrible.

:20:00. > :20:02.There is a fundamental difference in how people see this. The first

:20:02. > :20:06.thing it's tells me is that this fundamental different perspective

:20:06. > :20:11.has not yet been resolved. The second thing it tells me is that

:20:11. > :20:15.the more the Eurozone, the 17 countries, seek closer and closer

:20:15. > :20:19.integration, the more proper - and the more problematic it is for

:20:19. > :20:25.members like Britain who are members of the Europeans have Union

:20:25. > :20:30.but not members of the eurozone. You are a huge leak influential

:20:31. > :20:36.investor and economist, in your opinion, can the United Kingdom are

:20:36. > :20:40.fought to leave the euro? The European Union. That is going to be

:20:40. > :20:45.one of the options in this referendum, can the UK afford it?

:20:45. > :20:50.It will certainly suffer the consequences of exit, which will

:20:50. > :20:58.probably mean a lower growth, low investment initially, it will be A1

:20:58. > :21:02.of shock and that is the political, economic cost of political decision.

:21:02. > :21:05.Then it will reset in an association process like other

:21:05. > :21:10.countries have. Politically this will translate into lower

:21:10. > :21:13.investment and lower growth. You'll be aware that a senior figure in

:21:14. > :21:19.the State Department recently came to London and said the United

:21:19. > :21:23.States regarded as a key national interest for the United Kingdom to

:21:23. > :21:30.be inside the European Union, as a private investor in the United

:21:30. > :21:34.States, who looks at Europe, will the UK be less attractive to you?

:21:34. > :21:39.In your opinion will it be a less strong economy if it were to be

:21:39. > :21:46.outside the European Union? A lot depends on what conditions prevail

:21:46. > :21:50.when it is outside. If you force me to stay, in general I would tell

:21:50. > :21:56.you yes because it will have less preferential access to a bigger

:21:56. > :22:01.market and that translates into lower economic potential so, yes,

:22:01. > :22:06.it will be worse off. But the only thing I would caution is let us

:22:06. > :22:11.wait and see under what condition this would occur. That, on the

:22:11. > :22:14.surface of it, Britain economically would be less well-off. And you

:22:15. > :22:21.would be loath to put more money into the UK if that is your

:22:21. > :22:25.analysis. Yes, one problem that David Cameron has to deal with is

:22:25. > :22:28.that when you make A4 wood announcement, and he has made a

:22:28. > :22:33.formal announcement, this referendum is not any time soon,

:22:33. > :22:37.people like us stop putting in an uncertainty premium. We start

:22:37. > :22:42.pricing that if we have to make investment decisions, which we do,

:22:42. > :22:45.that play at over five or 10 years, what does the regime look like in a

:22:45. > :22:48.five or 10 years and the uncertainty premium associated with

:22:48. > :22:54.that goes up when you are not sure what the relationship between

:22:54. > :22:57.Britain and Europe may be. We may face five years of uncertainty. We

:22:57. > :23:03.know that if David Cameron wins the next election he will insist on a

:23:03. > :23:07.referendum by the end of 2017, what you seem to be suggesting to me is

:23:07. > :23:14.that potential length of time of uncertainty could be very damaging.

:23:14. > :23:18.It could. The one silver lining is in that period we will also get

:23:18. > :23:24.information on the Eurozone. Remember we have the Eurozone here,

:23:24. > :23:28.the inner core, and we have Britain in the outer core of the European

:23:28. > :23:32.Union. Britain's well-being depends on what happens in the inner core

:23:32. > :23:36.so we have a lot to talk about -- about in the next few years because

:23:36. > :23:41.it is not just whether Britain goes out but what happens in the inner

:23:41. > :23:45.core. This is a very fluid time for Europe and the global economy.

:23:45. > :23:49.final thought on Britain. Right now there is speculation that because

:23:49. > :23:53.our economic performance is poor, we could be close to losing our

:23:53. > :23:57.triple A credit rating internationally. You follow this

:23:57. > :24:01.closely because it is germane to your business, investing in debt.

:24:02. > :24:08.Do you think Britain will lose its rating? It depends who is writing

:24:08. > :24:13.her own. If you are talking about the rating agencies, they have

:24:13. > :24:18.already signalled a high likelihood that Britain may lose its triple-A

:24:18. > :24:22.status. We do not follow the rating agencies analysis. We do our own

:24:22. > :24:29.internal ratings and our own internal ratings suggest that, in

:24:29. > :24:34.fact, British risk now is better than has been in the past, because

:24:34. > :24:39.of the economic policies being pursued. Yes, well they are likely

:24:39. > :24:44.be a downgrade from the rating agencies, yes. They have already

:24:44. > :24:47.signalled that. Very few countries, very few countries are likely to

:24:48. > :24:52.maintain their triple-A right now given the course everyone has

:24:52. > :24:56.embarked on. But for us investors we may do so -- different

:24:56. > :25:00.assessments and most of the time we disagree with the rating agencies.

:25:00. > :25:04.Finally we have talked about Japan and the US and European economy, in

:25:04. > :25:11.this terrible phrase that economists and people like you used,

:25:11. > :25:19.are you risk on all this off in your mind set at the beginning of

:25:19. > :25:24.2013? We are taking a risk off the table. We were at risk on and our

:25:24. > :25:29.clients benefited and now we are taking risks of. Economic

:25:29. > :25:35.fundamentals are here. Valuations are much higher than economic

:25:35. > :25:38.fundamentals because central banks have created a huge wedge, a huge

:25:38. > :25:44.liquidity wet. If you listen to what Ben Bernanke said in September

:25:44. > :25:50.he said the objective is to push investors to take more risks. He

:25:50. > :25:53.has pushed investors to take more risks and valuations have gone up

:25:54. > :25:58.but if our relations -- fundamentals do not validate these

:25:58. > :26:02.valuations, valuations will not come down. At this month we are

:26:02. > :26:08.saying be careful because acid prices artificially supported and

:26:08. > :26:12.there is a limit to how long you can divorce assets prices from

:26:12. > :26:22.fundamentals. We are taking a risk of the table right now. Mohamed el-

:26:22. > :26:43.

:26:43. > :26:48.Arian, thank you very much for The weather continuing to give us

:26:48. > :26:52.some problems as we start Saturday. After the overnight snow it is all

:26:52. > :26:58.going to freeze and we will be left with widespread eyes. Still the

:26:58. > :27:02.potential for travel disruption. If you're travelling first thing on

:27:02. > :27:07.Saturday morning BBC local radio is a good place for local information.

:27:07. > :27:11.A mixture of rain and sleet and snow is clearing away from the

:27:11. > :27:15.south-east by 9am. We will start to see things brightening up.

:27:15. > :27:18.Temperatures will sit there just above a frisson. In northern

:27:18. > :27:24.England there are still some light snow around with temperatures

:27:24. > :27:28.hovering about freezing. The ice is a concern here. Temperatures for

:27:28. > :27:33.Edinburgh and Glasgow are around two degrees. It should be fine with

:27:33. > :27:38.some sunshine. If similar story for Northern Ireland. Things are

:27:38. > :27:47.quieter rain down in Wales with temperatures in Hollywood -- Holly

:27:47. > :27:51.Aird a seven degrees. Still quite cold in Cardiff. For many Saturday

:27:51. > :27:54.is not looking too bad a day. It should be bright in the afternoon

:27:54. > :27:58.but it tends to become more overcast in the West later on in

:27:58. > :28:02.the day with more rain starting to show for Wales and Northern Ireland

:28:02. > :28:09.and South West England. Whether colder halt dominie East

:28:09. > :28:18.temperatures will still struggle. - - where the cold air holds on Any

:28:18. > :28:23.the east. Heavy rain will sweep across the country so a wet start

:28:23. > :28:28.to Sunday-morning but not as cold as recent days. Temperatures for

:28:28. > :28:33.some are beginning the day at around eight degrees. It will stay

:28:33. > :28:36.windy with blustery showers in the West which could be wintery just

:28:37. > :28:40.across the high ground of Scotland. The snow was beginning to melt as

:28:40. > :28:45.we have the milder air and had on the effects of the rain and we are

:28:45. > :28:48.concerned about flooding in the next couple of days. Sunday night

:28:48. > :28:53.there maybe a few showers around with tightly-packed isobars that