0:00:02 > 0:00:09This programme contains some strong language
0:00:18 > 0:00:20Times Square, the beating heart of Broadway -
0:00:20 > 0:00:23home of the musical theatre.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25I've always loved musicals.
0:00:25 > 0:00:29The singing, the dancing, the stories and the stars.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31Especially the stars.
0:00:34 > 0:00:36That space on that stage
0:00:36 > 0:00:39is like no other place in the world.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44There's nothing like it, there's no medium like it.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48To fool, to surprise...
0:00:48 > 0:00:53to shock an audience...
0:00:53 > 0:00:54is very powerful.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00The musical is one of America's greatest contributions
0:01:00 > 0:01:02to modern culture.
0:01:02 > 0:01:04It embodies the drive, the imagination
0:01:04 > 0:01:07and the showmanship of this great nation.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12And on our side of the Atlantic
0:01:12 > 0:01:14we not only embraced the musical,
0:01:14 > 0:01:16we re-invented it and made it our own.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21But is it the stars that make a musical great,
0:01:21 > 0:01:24or do great musicals make the stars?
0:01:25 > 0:01:27For me, there's an alchemy takes place
0:01:27 > 0:01:32when a great show finds a performer who can interpret its magic.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35These magicians are the musical greats.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40Isn't it the best thing in the world
0:01:40 > 0:01:42to pretend to be somebody else for a living?
0:01:42 > 0:01:44SHE LAUGHS
0:01:45 > 0:01:48It's so uplifting and it's so demanding and challenging.
0:01:48 > 0:01:49It's great.
0:01:50 > 0:01:53As Cameron will tell you, when you ask for more money,
0:01:53 > 0:01:55"I don't need you.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57"The star of the show is the show."
0:02:08 > 0:02:11# When I'm with a pistol
0:02:11 > 0:02:13# I sparkle like a crystal
0:02:13 > 0:02:16# Yes, I shine like the morning... #
0:02:16 > 0:02:18The inimitable Ethel Merman,
0:02:18 > 0:02:20the loudest, brassiest voice in the business
0:02:20 > 0:02:23in Irving Berlin's Annie Get Your Gun.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27# Oh, you can't get a man with a gun. #
0:02:30 > 0:02:34This was the very first musical I ever saw on the stage,
0:02:34 > 0:02:36must have been six or seven at the time,
0:02:36 > 0:02:39and so began my lifelong passion
0:02:39 > 0:02:42for the musical theatre and its stars.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45# There's no business like show business
0:02:45 > 0:02:49# Like no business I know... #
0:02:49 > 0:02:51Annie Get Your Gun and Merman
0:02:51 > 0:02:54will be for ever linked by that showbiz anthem,
0:02:54 > 0:02:58but it's not Shakespeare and Merman is no Judi Dench.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00She was the first lady of musical comedy
0:03:00 > 0:03:04in an era when musicals had no literary pretensions.
0:03:04 > 0:03:06'All that was about to change.'
0:03:07 > 0:03:11In 1943 a show opened on Broadway
0:03:11 > 0:03:15that ushered in a whole new era for the musical theatre.
0:03:15 > 0:03:16It began badly.
0:03:16 > 0:03:17After seeing a preview,
0:03:17 > 0:03:20the New York columnist Walter Winchell famously quipped,
0:03:20 > 0:03:23"No gags, no girls, no chance."
0:03:23 > 0:03:25How wrong could he be?!
0:03:25 > 0:03:30# There's a bright golden haze on the meadow
0:03:30 > 0:03:31# The corn is as high... #
0:03:31 > 0:03:33"Oklahoma!" is a musical play
0:03:33 > 0:03:36about the pioneers of the American South-West.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40It made a star of Alfred Drake who played the lead character Curly
0:03:40 > 0:03:44and he kicked off the show with a memorable solo.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48# Oh, what a beautiful morning
0:03:48 > 0:03:53# Oh, what a beautiful day... #
0:03:53 > 0:03:57This was something radically new and it brought critical acclaim.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01The New York Times gave it a five-star review.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04"After a verse like that, sung to a buoyant melody,
0:04:04 > 0:04:09"the banalities of the old musical stage became intolerable."
0:04:09 > 0:04:12# There's a bright golden haze on the meadow... #
0:04:12 > 0:04:15In the 1955 film version of "Oklahoma!",
0:04:15 > 0:04:18Curly was played by Gordon McCrae.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20I don't think it works quite as well,
0:04:20 > 0:04:23but it still manages to retain some of the power
0:04:23 > 0:04:25of the original stage production.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31That's particularly true of the dream sequence ballet
0:04:31 > 0:04:33choreographed by Agnes De Mille.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36It brilliantly conveys the struggle between Curly and Jud,
0:04:36 > 0:04:39who are vying for the love of Laurey.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42WIND HOWLS
0:04:42 > 0:04:46What's new is the fusion of story, song and dance
0:04:46 > 0:04:49to reveal the fears and desires of the characters.
0:04:49 > 0:04:53It was a game-changer that made new demands of its leading actors.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58"Oklahoma!" posed what performers called the triple threat -
0:04:58 > 0:05:02they had to act, they had to sing and they had to dance.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07This was when musical theatre really grew up
0:05:07 > 0:05:10and began to create some of the greatest roles ever written.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19Over the years there have been countless revivals of "Oklahoma!"
0:05:19 > 0:05:21but one of the best in my book
0:05:21 > 0:05:25was Trevor Nunn's for the National Theatre in 1998.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29He managed to convey the pioneering spirit of these rural folk
0:05:29 > 0:05:31as they forged their new community,
0:05:31 > 0:05:35and he unearthed a new musical star.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37I still had to find my Curly.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41I'd been to Australia to set up and cast
0:05:41 > 0:05:44a production of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Sunset Boulevard.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49A young man came in - tall, strikingly handsome.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52And he began to sing and he sang absolutely magically.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55He was called Hugh Jackman.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57# Oklahoma
0:05:57 > 0:06:01# When the wind comes sweeping down the plain
0:06:01 > 0:06:04# And the wavin' wheat can sure smell sweet
0:06:04 > 0:06:08# When the wind comes right behind the rain... #
0:06:08 > 0:06:10So, when I was doing "Oklahoma!"
0:06:10 > 0:06:13I-I contacted Hugh and said,
0:06:13 > 0:06:16"Come on, take the plunge."
0:06:16 > 0:06:19And he so took it in his stride.
0:06:19 > 0:06:21# And when we say
0:06:21 > 0:06:25# Yo! Ayipioeeay!
0:06:25 > 0:06:29# We're only saying, You're doing fine, Oklahoma
0:06:29 > 0:06:32# Oklahoma, OK... #
0:06:32 > 0:06:35When I saw this show, I'd never heard of the leading man,
0:06:35 > 0:06:37but it was obvious -
0:06:37 > 0:06:39Hugh Jackman was destined to be a star.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43And, of course, it wasn't long before Hollywood came calling.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46His portrayal of Curly launched a stellar career.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54This is St Paul's Church in Covent Garden.
0:06:54 > 0:06:56It features in the opening scene
0:06:56 > 0:07:00of one of the most significant musicals of all time -
0:07:00 > 0:07:03a musical that created two of the most memorable roles.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06I'm talking, of course, about My Fair Lady.
0:07:06 > 0:07:11# All I want is a room somewhere... #
0:07:11 > 0:07:14Based on George Bernard Shaw's play Pygmalion,
0:07:14 > 0:07:17it's the story of a cockney flower girl, Eliza Doolittle,
0:07:17 > 0:07:21being transformed from a guttersnipe into an aristocratic lady
0:07:21 > 0:07:23by Professor Henry Higgins.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26# Lots of chocolate for me to eat... #
0:07:26 > 0:07:30It opened on Broadway in 1956, won six Tony Awards
0:07:30 > 0:07:34and became the longest running musical of its time.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37It starred Julie Andrews and Rex Harrison.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39But he wasn't the first choice.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42They started with Michael Redgrave and then they asked Noel Coward,
0:07:42 > 0:07:46and then they asked Rex Harrison, so he was the third choice.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49And Julie Andrews, who'd been a child star in the UK,
0:07:49 > 0:07:52how did they stumble on her?
0:07:52 > 0:07:55Well, she was in The Boy Friend, before My Fair Lady,
0:07:55 > 0:07:58and they all went to see her and just thought she was great.
0:07:58 > 0:08:00She was lively, she was very young.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02She was a teenager when she was in The Boy Friend,
0:08:02 > 0:08:05so she really was very different
0:08:05 > 0:08:07from Audrey Hepburn in the film, for instance,
0:08:07 > 0:08:10who I think is a little bit old for the part,
0:08:10 > 0:08:12even though she's also wonderful in the part.
0:08:14 > 0:08:15Wonderful indeed.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18I love Audrey Hepburn in the movie from 1964.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21Who wouldn't? But it's not her singing.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24That credit goes to Marni Nixon.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28# Oh, wouldn't it be lovely? #
0:08:28 > 0:08:32Alongside her, brilliantly recreating his stage role
0:08:32 > 0:08:33is Rex Harrison.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37I say, cap'n. N' baw ya flahr orf a pore gel.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42Quite often in Broadway musicals
0:08:42 > 0:08:44songs get written at the last minute.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46Did that happen in My Fair Lady at all?
0:08:46 > 0:08:49Rex Harrison was really unhappy about the fact
0:08:49 > 0:08:51that his character was getting lost in the second act.
0:08:51 > 0:08:55So Lerner knew he had to come up with another song for him.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58So he and Harrison were supposedly walking down Fifth Avenue one day
0:08:58 > 0:09:00talking about their marital problems,
0:09:00 > 0:09:04because they were both married a number of times.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07Harrison suddenly shouted out to Lerner,
0:09:07 > 0:09:09"Wouldn't it be wonderful if we were both homosexuals?!"
0:09:09 > 0:09:12And Lerner said that he didn't think that was the solution
0:09:12 > 0:09:13and they walked on.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15But later in the day he thought,
0:09:15 > 0:09:17"Well, I think I can make a song lyric out of this,"
0:09:17 > 0:09:18and it turned into the song...
0:09:18 > 0:09:22# Why can't a woman be more like a man?
0:09:22 > 0:09:23# Men are so decent
0:09:23 > 0:09:25# Such regular chaps
0:09:25 > 0:09:28# Ready to help you through any mishaps
0:09:28 > 0:09:32# Ready to buck you up whenever you're glum
0:09:32 > 0:09:34# Why can't a woman be a chum? #
0:09:36 > 0:09:40These are two of the great parts in the musical theatre
0:09:40 > 0:09:44and yet people have managed to play those parts,
0:09:44 > 0:09:49and be successful in those parts, post Julie and Rex.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52Well, it's curious that after Julie Andrews and Rex Harrison
0:09:52 > 0:09:56had left the show, the person to replace Julie Andrews
0:09:56 > 0:09:57was Sally Ann Howes.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00But after that, there were no names in it whatsoever,
0:10:00 > 0:10:02and it carried on six and a half years,
0:10:02 > 0:10:04so clearly this was the point at which
0:10:04 > 0:10:07the show started to be the thing
0:10:07 > 0:10:09that carried everything forward.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11But without Rex and Julie to start with,
0:10:11 > 0:10:13that probably wouldn't have happened, would it?
0:10:13 > 0:10:17Indeed not. It needed to have this big draw for the critics,
0:10:17 > 0:10:18it needed to be magical,
0:10:18 > 0:10:21it needed to have those amazing first night reviews
0:10:21 > 0:10:24that then caused everyone to just buy up tickets.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29In 1979, a West End revival was staged
0:10:29 > 0:10:31by producer Cameron Mackintosh.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34It was directed by the show's lyricist Alan Jay Lerner.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37Liz Robertson was cast as Eliza.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41# All I want is a room somewhere... #
0:10:41 > 0:10:45- Difficult...- Yep. - ..to make that part your own
0:10:45 > 0:10:48because of the indelible memory...
0:10:48 > 0:10:50- Julie Andrews.- ..of Julie Andrews.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53How do you go...? When...?
0:10:53 > 0:10:54Well, I never saw her.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57I mean, I know I look like her and I sound like her
0:10:57 > 0:10:58to a frightening degree
0:10:58 > 0:11:02but I never saw her perform it, I only saw her Audrey Hepburn.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04But, yes, I knew...
0:11:04 > 0:11:08I felt I might have an edge on her with the cockney side
0:11:08 > 0:11:10because I was born in Essex and very near
0:11:10 > 0:11:12the Greater London, East London area.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16But vocally her...that pure voice...
0:11:18 > 0:11:20..you can't...you can't better that.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22'So you would just try, you would just do what you can do
0:11:22 > 0:11:23'and I never...
0:11:23 > 0:11:27'I didn't have her spectre sitting on my shoulder, funnily enough.'
0:11:27 > 0:11:30# Someone's head resting on my knee
0:11:30 > 0:11:34# Warm and tender as he can be
0:11:34 > 0:11:36# Who takes good care of me... #
0:11:36 > 0:11:38'If you have a part like that
0:11:38 > 0:11:42'and you don't make it your own, then you're a fool, I think.'
0:11:42 > 0:11:44I mean, it's such a... it's such a gift of a role.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46# Lovely
0:11:46 > 0:11:49# Lovely
0:11:49 > 0:11:52# Lovely
0:11:52 > 0:11:55WHISTLING
0:11:55 > 0:12:01So you've now got the almost unique experience
0:12:01 > 0:12:05- of having Alan Jay Lerner, the author...- Yes.
0:12:05 > 0:12:06- ..and lyricist...- Yes.
0:12:06 > 0:12:08..teaching you how to play the part.
0:12:08 > 0:12:09And a director, yes, exactly.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13What sort of career did that lead to?
0:12:13 > 0:12:16Ah, well, it led to the fact that we eventually got married.
0:12:16 > 0:12:17SHE LAUGHS
0:12:17 > 0:12:20I don't know who could have be more surprised than me...
0:12:20 > 0:12:23cos he was everything I was never going to marry, you know,
0:12:23 > 0:12:26American and short and a smoker.
0:12:26 > 0:12:27HE LAUGHS
0:12:27 > 0:12:32But he-he was the most charming, witty, intelligent man
0:12:32 > 0:12:36- I ever met. - Was he your Henry Higgins?
0:12:36 > 0:12:38Yes, he was. Yeah.
0:12:39 > 0:12:43# The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain. #
0:12:43 > 0:12:45By George, she's got it!
0:12:45 > 0:12:48My Fair Lady is a musical for every decade.
0:12:48 > 0:12:50In 2001 it was revived again,
0:12:50 > 0:12:52and Henry Higgins was played
0:12:52 > 0:12:55by one of Britain's finest classical actors, Jonathan Pryce.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00# In Spain, in Spain... #
0:13:02 > 0:13:04'I was playing Macbeth.'
0:13:04 > 0:13:09It's a very, difficult, gut-wrenching, dark play to do.
0:13:09 > 0:13:16I saw Les Mis, and I saw, these people having an extraordinary time,
0:13:16 > 0:13:18evoking incredible emotions within the audience,
0:13:18 > 0:13:21especially within me. I thought this...
0:13:21 > 0:13:24They're achieving what I am attempting to achieve
0:13:24 > 0:13:27playing Macbeth, but they don't seem to be
0:13:27 > 0:13:30banging their heads against the wall or going through any kind of angst.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33I was quite envious of that performance.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36What was the trigger in your mind that made you say yes
0:13:36 > 0:13:38to Professor Higgins?
0:13:39 > 0:13:42There's going to be a gazillion people booing when I say this,
0:13:42 > 0:13:46but I was never a fan of Rex Harrison's performance.
0:13:46 > 0:13:47Which helps.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52Of course he was brilliant,
0:13:52 > 0:13:55but I knew that what I could do differently
0:13:55 > 0:13:58was that I could sing it,
0:13:58 > 0:14:01whereas Harrison sort of...
0:14:03 > 0:14:05..sang spoke.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08# I've grown accustomed to her look
0:14:08 > 0:14:10# Accustomed to her voice
0:14:10 > 0:14:14# Accustomed to her face... #
0:14:16 > 0:14:19The star of My Fair Lady is My Fair Lady, it's the piece.
0:14:19 > 0:14:23As Cameron will tell you, when you ask for more money.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26"I don't need you. Star of the show is the show..."
0:14:29 > 0:14:30"..darling."
0:14:32 > 0:14:37BOTH: # The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain. #
0:14:39 > 0:14:42What is the enduring appeal of My Fair Lady?
0:14:42 > 0:14:45How is it that this show after nearly 60 years
0:14:45 > 0:14:47can still pack them in?
0:14:47 > 0:14:50The latest hit production is here at the Crucible in Sheffield,
0:14:50 > 0:14:52and I've come to meet the team.
0:14:54 > 0:14:55One of the problems with My Fair Lady
0:14:55 > 0:15:00is that people of a certain age can only see Rex Harrison
0:15:00 > 0:15:03and they can only hear Julie Andrews.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05Makes casting very difficult?
0:15:05 > 0:15:07I had worked with Dominic West before
0:15:07 > 0:15:10and he seemed perfect to me for the part -
0:15:10 > 0:15:12a part that he was born to play.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15And then we auditioned around 60 young actresses,
0:15:15 > 0:15:18and found one who could do it.
0:15:18 > 0:15:23That was Carly Bawden, who has turned out to be a new star.
0:15:23 > 0:15:25She takes a lot of energy.
0:15:27 > 0:15:28She's so spirited...
0:15:31 > 0:15:33..lively and determined and strong.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36So she's so physical -
0:15:36 > 0:15:38she's so physically and mentally challenging.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41I've never done a musical before, and what astonished me
0:15:41 > 0:15:45was the level of, professionalism and discipline.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48It seems to me on a much higher level
0:15:48 > 0:15:49than in straight theatre.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51That was the other thing I found difficult -
0:15:51 > 0:15:56giving meaning to words in a song.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58Very often they get lost,
0:15:58 > 0:16:00or I'd find they'd get lost in the melody.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05I couldn't give the emphasis that I could in speaking.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09Of course the advantage with Higgins is that you can speak a lot of it.
0:16:09 > 0:16:10But I found that very difficult,
0:16:10 > 0:16:12and I think very good singers are able to do that.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14Has it got easier?
0:16:16 > 0:16:18Yes. Yes, it has, I suppose, yes.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20I talk a lot more...
0:16:20 > 0:16:21THEY LAUGH
0:16:21 > 0:16:24..than I did. I wanted to sing quite a lot.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27I wanted to sing. Well, I started off singing the whole part.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30Were you worried that you wouldn't be able to get Rex out of your head?
0:16:30 > 0:16:31Oh, I couldn't get him out of my head.
0:16:31 > 0:16:32That's the problem.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36I mean, it's one of those parts, like, you know,
0:16:36 > 0:16:40Brando in Streetcar or Olivier's Richard III -
0:16:40 > 0:16:42the actor is completely identified with,
0:16:42 > 0:16:44cos it was written for him obviously.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47I haven't got him out of my head.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50As far as I can tell, I'm just doing an imitation of Rex,
0:16:50 > 0:16:53but I'm not because, because you do bring your own thing to it.
0:16:58 > 0:17:02My Fair Lady was so demanding because of its literary style.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05The other ground-breaking show of the '50s
0:17:05 > 0:17:08put even tougher demands on its performers.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11They were required to sing, to dance and to act
0:17:11 > 0:17:12to a level never seen before.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16CHEERING
0:17:18 > 0:17:22West Side Story opened on Broadway in 1957.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25The film adaptation came out in 1961
0:17:25 > 0:17:26and won ten Oscars.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33Once you've seen West Side Story,
0:17:33 > 0:17:39you can't possibly think of musicals as a lower form of theatrical life.
0:17:42 > 0:17:44It really was ground-breaking.
0:17:44 > 0:17:47You can imagine saying to your investors,
0:17:47 > 0:17:51"Now we're doing a musical about, kids...
0:17:51 > 0:17:55"Puerto Ricans and Caucasians, fighting on the streets of New York
0:17:55 > 0:17:58"and stabbing each other and killing each other
0:17:58 > 0:18:00"and so on and it's all based on Romeo And Juliet."
0:18:04 > 0:18:05We raised the money in one day.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09The production team of West Side Story
0:18:09 > 0:18:13reads like a Who's Who of the American Musical -
0:18:13 > 0:18:16Hal Prince as producer, Leonard Bernstein composer,
0:18:16 > 0:18:18Stephen Sondheim lyricist
0:18:18 > 0:18:21and Jerome Robbins as director and choreographer.
0:18:22 > 0:18:27West Side Story was so different from anything that had gone before.
0:18:27 > 0:18:28As the Herald Tribune put it,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31"The radioactive fallout from West Side Story
0:18:31 > 0:18:35"must still be descending on Broadway this morning."
0:18:35 > 0:18:38It was a story of the streets, a story of youth culture
0:18:38 > 0:18:41in an age when the teenager had only just been discovered.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48There are so many great parts in West Side Story,
0:18:48 > 0:18:51but I love the character of Anita.
0:18:51 > 0:18:53She was played in the movie by Rita Moreno,
0:18:53 > 0:18:59and her feisty exuberance is on show in the wonderful song, America.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02# I like the island Manhattan
0:19:02 > 0:19:04# I know you do
0:19:04 > 0:19:06# Smoke on your pipe
0:19:06 > 0:19:09# And put that in
0:19:13 > 0:19:15- GIRLS:- # I like to be in America
0:19:15 > 0:19:17# OK by me in America
0:19:17 > 0:19:19# Everything free in America
0:19:19 > 0:19:23# For a small fee in America... #
0:19:23 > 0:19:26The lyrics brilliantly contrast the appeal of the new country
0:19:26 > 0:19:28against the virtues of the old
0:19:28 > 0:19:31and the tune is simply irresistible.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34# I have my own washing machine
0:19:34 > 0:19:37# What will you have though to keep clean?
0:19:37 > 0:19:40# Skyscrapers bloom in America
0:19:40 > 0:19:42# Cadillacs zoom in America... #
0:19:42 > 0:19:44In the original Broadway production,
0:19:44 > 0:19:47Anita was created by Chita Rivera.
0:19:47 > 0:19:49The part was to make her a star.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55So you get the part of Anita, where do you start?
0:19:57 > 0:19:59You take it step by step.
0:19:59 > 0:20:01You do it exactly - hear the music,
0:20:01 > 0:20:04you listen, you obey.
0:20:04 > 0:20:08Dancers are very obedient, they have to be, you know.
0:20:08 > 0:20:14Then the choreographer or the director or the whatever,
0:20:14 > 0:20:19they see you, and if something fits you better than something else,
0:20:19 > 0:20:23they will change it, they create it.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26First of all, Jerry said in rehearsals,
0:20:26 > 0:20:30"You don't, you don't, talk to any of the Jets,
0:20:30 > 0:20:33"you never intermingle at all."
0:20:33 > 0:20:34So what did I do?
0:20:34 > 0:20:36I married one.
0:20:36 > 0:20:37- You married a Jet? - HE LAUGHS
0:20:37 > 0:20:40I married a Jet. So that'll tell him.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42He wanted to keep the tension.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45- Well, of course, that was superior... - Even off stage.
0:20:45 > 0:20:46That's exactly right.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48And were you in separate dressing rooms,
0:20:48 > 0:20:50- were you all kept apart? - Yes, we were.
0:20:50 > 0:20:55Absolutely. And that's the best way to have done this show.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57What's your favourite moment as Anita in the show?
0:21:00 > 0:21:02My favourite moment was A Boy Like That.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10# A boy like that would kill your brother
0:21:10 > 0:21:13# Forget that boy and find another
0:21:13 > 0:21:15# One of your own kind
0:21:15 > 0:21:18# Stick to your own kind... #
0:21:21 > 0:21:26So I express my sadness and anger,
0:21:26 > 0:21:31and she had to sing this very contained, beautiful explanation
0:21:31 > 0:21:33for why she allowed him in.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37I have a love and that's all that I need, right or wrong,
0:21:37 > 0:21:38what else can I do?
0:21:40 > 0:21:44I love him. I can't even say it without...
0:21:44 > 0:21:47# I love him
0:21:47 > 0:21:49# I'm his
0:21:49 > 0:21:54# And everything he is
0:21:54 > 0:21:58# I am too
0:22:01 > 0:22:04# I have a love... #
0:22:04 > 0:22:06Is it the star that makes the musical
0:22:06 > 0:22:08or is it the musical that makes the star part?
0:22:08 > 0:22:10The musical makes the star.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12As far as that question is concerned,
0:22:12 > 0:22:15it is most definitely the book.
0:22:15 > 0:22:21The book, the score, the creative team,
0:22:21 > 0:22:22and then we come into it.
0:22:28 > 0:22:31West Side Story has this youthful energy about it,
0:22:31 > 0:22:35and as youth culture started to take over in the '60s...
0:22:35 > 0:22:38the musical went in two directions.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42One was this very glossy direction, "Hello Dolly!", Mame.
0:22:42 > 0:22:44It was big, it was loud, it was colourful.
0:22:49 > 0:22:54And then Cabaret became very intimate, very intense, very real.
0:22:54 > 0:22:55And I think that those...
0:22:55 > 0:22:58That's the way that musicals ended up, really -
0:22:58 > 0:23:01in those two very different directions rather than in one.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08In 1969 I was working as a theatrical agent
0:23:08 > 0:23:11and all around the times and the culture were changing.
0:23:11 > 0:23:15But there was nothing as startling or as radical as Cabaret,
0:23:15 > 0:23:18which ran here at the Palace Theatre.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23# What good is sitting alone in your room...? #
0:23:23 > 0:23:26The original Broadway production won eight Tony awards
0:23:26 > 0:23:29and legions of admirers.
0:23:29 > 0:23:32It moved the musical in a dark and edgy direction,
0:23:32 > 0:23:36portraying the decadence of Berlin as the Nazis rise to power.
0:23:37 > 0:23:38The most compelling character
0:23:38 > 0:23:42is the club's menacing Master of Ceremonies.
0:23:42 > 0:23:43Hallo, stranger.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46HE LAUGHS
0:23:46 > 0:23:48Originated by Joel Grey on stage
0:23:48 > 0:23:51and with an Oscar-winning performance on screen.
0:23:54 > 0:23:58Joel, let me try and take you back to that day in your life,
0:23:58 > 0:24:02where either your agent calls or a script comes through the post
0:24:02 > 0:24:05and it's a thing called Cabaret.
0:24:05 > 0:24:06Can you remember that?
0:24:06 > 0:24:07- Yes, I do. - What was it like?
0:24:07 > 0:24:10How do you forget something like that?
0:24:10 > 0:24:14I remember exactly because I was ready...
0:24:14 > 0:24:15to quit acting.
0:24:16 > 0:24:20I had... I was ready to give up.
0:24:20 > 0:24:27I had tried and tried and tried to find a role that I could create,
0:24:27 > 0:24:29and I thought it was over.
0:24:29 > 0:24:30I was ready to stop.
0:24:30 > 0:24:33Hal Prince called and said...
0:24:33 > 0:24:36"I'm working on a musical and I think there's a part
0:24:36 > 0:24:38"that you might be right for."
0:24:39 > 0:24:46And, um, I think it's the first time I was ever offered a part
0:24:46 > 0:24:47without an audition.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49Wow.
0:24:49 > 0:24:55And I went on over to Fred Ebb's and John Kander's house
0:24:55 > 0:24:58and Hal was there and they played the score.
0:25:00 > 0:25:01And I heard,
0:25:01 > 0:25:04"Um-pa-pa, um-pa-pa um-pa-pa-pa, um-pam."
0:25:05 > 0:25:07And I thought, "Oh, my God.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09"That's going to be my song!"
0:25:09 > 0:25:15# Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome
0:25:15 > 0:25:20# Fremde, etranger, stranger... #
0:25:20 > 0:25:25And how long did it take you to find the character?
0:25:25 > 0:25:29'Well, I was struggling because it was very general.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32'It was just sort of like a Master of Ceremonies.'
0:25:33 > 0:25:37A German Master of Ceremonies, but nothing political,
0:25:37 > 0:25:43nothing deeply dark and complex and horrifying.
0:25:43 > 0:25:44That was not there.
0:25:46 > 0:25:48And, um...
0:25:48 > 0:25:49One day I said to Hal, I said,
0:25:49 > 0:25:52"I have an idea I'd like to try."
0:25:54 > 0:25:56And he said, "OK go ahead."
0:25:56 > 0:25:59Everybody was watching and I did the opening number.
0:25:59 > 0:26:00I am your host...
0:26:00 > 0:26:04# Und sagen, Willkomen, bienvenue, welcome...#
0:26:04 > 0:26:11'And I had in mind a comedian I had seen many, many years before,
0:26:11 > 0:26:14'who I thought was the worst...'
0:26:14 > 0:26:18crummiest, cheapest...
0:26:18 > 0:26:19lousiest...
0:26:19 > 0:26:22I mean...I mean, I...
0:26:22 > 0:26:25I shuddered when I thought of him.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28And I was in the audience and I was embarrassed.
0:26:28 > 0:26:29Right? I never forgot it.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33And I thought to myself, I'm going to try it, like,
0:26:33 > 0:26:34do it like being that guy.
0:26:35 > 0:26:40I did it and I felt very naked,
0:26:40 > 0:26:42very concerned in that...
0:26:42 > 0:26:46I thought that people would think that's who I was.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55'Hal came back and he said, that's it.'
0:26:55 > 0:26:57Wow, what a moment!
0:26:57 > 0:26:58JOEL LAUGHS
0:26:59 > 0:27:02He manages to keep the sense of theatre
0:27:02 > 0:27:04whilst projecting it to a cinema audience.
0:27:04 > 0:27:06He seems to have this awareness
0:27:06 > 0:27:09that his every move and his every twitch
0:27:09 > 0:27:11and his every, sort of, lifted eyebrow
0:27:11 > 0:27:13will be seen by the audience,
0:27:13 > 0:27:16in a much bigger way than would have been the case on the stage.
0:27:16 > 0:27:20And now presenting the Cabaret girls!
0:27:20 > 0:27:22Heidi!
0:27:22 > 0:27:27I mean, you were trying to capture a very dark period.
0:27:28 > 0:27:32'All I know is that...'
0:27:32 > 0:27:35'..as a Jew...'
0:27:35 > 0:27:40I knew that I had to make this character
0:27:40 > 0:27:44black, dark, terrifying.
0:27:44 > 0:27:45A cautionary tale.
0:27:48 > 0:27:49It's Helga!
0:27:49 > 0:27:51HE LAUGHS
0:27:54 > 0:27:59When I arrived in Munich, where we shot the film...
0:28:02 > 0:28:05..I had no idea, but I got off the airplane
0:28:05 > 0:28:11and the minute my feet touched German ground,
0:28:11 > 0:28:12I started to cry...
0:28:15 > 0:28:18..and sob and grieve.
0:28:19 > 0:28:23Because there was something about, you know, the loss
0:28:23 > 0:28:27and the history that was so much a part of me
0:28:27 > 0:28:28that I didn't even realise.
0:28:29 > 0:28:34And so it was, I knew I needed to make this...
0:28:36 > 0:28:37..specific.
0:28:49 > 0:28:53The other huge role in Cabaret is that of Sally Bowles.
0:28:53 > 0:28:55And when Hal Prince, the producer-director,
0:28:55 > 0:28:57brought the show from Broadway,
0:28:57 > 0:29:00he auditioned all the leading ladies of the London theatre.
0:29:00 > 0:29:05I saw Vanessa Redgrave a few weeks ago here and we chatted,
0:29:05 > 0:29:09and I wondered, "Did she remember that she'd ever auditioned for me?"
0:29:09 > 0:29:11And suddenly she said to me,
0:29:11 > 0:29:16"You know, I made a jackass out of myself, once, years ago."
0:29:18 > 0:29:20I said, "You remember it?"
0:29:20 > 0:29:23I said, "You didn't make a jackass out of yourself,
0:29:23 > 0:29:24"you just didn't get the part."
0:29:24 > 0:29:29And of course she sang for me. She sang a cappella.
0:29:29 > 0:29:32She sang a political song that she'd written herself.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36Of course she didn't get the part.
0:29:38 > 0:29:42The role of Sally Bowles went instead to Judi Dench.
0:29:42 > 0:29:44# Whatever you do... #
0:29:44 > 0:29:48You see the stage play, and then you see the movie,
0:29:48 > 0:29:49which I did not do...
0:29:50 > 0:29:54As far as I'm concerned that's all about an English girl...
0:29:55 > 0:29:59..who is not a great singer.
0:29:59 > 0:30:00Absolutely.
0:30:00 > 0:30:06And the whole verisimilitude of that character depends on her not...
0:30:06 > 0:30:08Not being great.
0:30:08 > 0:30:09..being a great singer.
0:30:09 > 0:30:13# That's all right cos he comes in here every night... #
0:30:13 > 0:30:17Judi was not a great singer, but a great performer.
0:30:17 > 0:30:21And she has this gorgeous, gorgeous speaking instrument.
0:30:21 > 0:30:23And so she sang.
0:30:23 > 0:30:24And it was wonderful.
0:30:24 > 0:30:29The point is when it became a movie Liza Minnelli...
0:30:29 > 0:30:33Was brilliant, brilliant dancer, brilliant performer.
0:30:33 > 0:30:37She's a performer. A professional performer.
0:30:37 > 0:30:41# What good is sitting alone in your room? #
0:30:41 > 0:30:44It's not Sally Bowles, at least, I didn't think so.
0:30:44 > 0:30:46Not Christopher Isherwood's Sally Bowles.
0:30:46 > 0:30:47No, not that one.
0:30:47 > 0:30:50# ...cabaret, old chum
0:30:50 > 0:30:52# Come to the Cabaret. #
0:31:00 > 0:31:03Cabaret was daring and sexy
0:31:03 > 0:31:07and it ushered in a new style of modern musical theatre.
0:31:07 > 0:31:10By the end of the '60s this culminated in full frontal
0:31:10 > 0:31:15nudity in Hair, the first and only hippy musical.
0:31:15 > 0:31:17But the Brits weren't standing still.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20Half a Sixpence and Stop the World, I Want To Get Off
0:31:20 > 0:31:23had transferred successfully to New York.
0:31:23 > 0:31:26And the best of the British bunch was "Oliver!".
0:31:26 > 0:31:29The show's writer Lionel Bart gave us
0:31:29 > 0:31:32a grand vision of Dickensian London with songs
0:31:32 > 0:31:36and tunes that owed more to music hall than to Broadway.
0:31:36 > 0:31:38# In this life, one thing counts
0:31:38 > 0:31:41# In the bank, large amounts
0:31:41 > 0:31:43# I'm afraid these don't grow on trees
0:31:43 > 0:31:46# You've got to pick a pocket or two
0:31:46 > 0:31:49# You've got to pick a pocket or two, boys
0:31:51 > 0:31:53# You've got to pick a pocket or two. #
0:31:53 > 0:31:57Fagin is perhaps the most wickedly attractive villain ever created.
0:31:58 > 0:32:01Let's show everyone how to do it, my dears.
0:32:01 > 0:32:05When "Oliver!" opened in 1960, Rex Harrison was in the audience.
0:32:05 > 0:32:10He'd turned down the part and so had Sid James and Peter Sellers.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13Instead, Fagin was played by Ron Moody,
0:32:13 > 0:32:16first on stage and later on screen.
0:32:16 > 0:32:21The critics loved him, describing him in turn as "slippery",
0:32:21 > 0:32:25"benign, eye-rolling, lip-licking", "Exemplary,
0:32:25 > 0:32:27"like Ivan the Terrible in a ginger wig."
0:32:29 > 0:32:31# Why should we break our backs
0:32:31 > 0:32:34# Stupidly paying tax
0:32:34 > 0:32:36# Better get some untaxed income
0:32:36 > 0:32:39# Better pick a pocket or two... #
0:32:39 > 0:32:43His screen portrayal of Fagin earned Ron Moody a Golden Globe
0:32:43 > 0:32:45and an Oscar nomination.
0:32:48 > 0:32:52Following in his prancing footsteps is always going to be a tough call.
0:32:55 > 0:32:58# Robin Hood, what a crook
0:32:58 > 0:33:01# Gave away, what he took
0:33:01 > 0:33:03# Charity's fine, subscribe to mine
0:33:03 > 0:33:06# Get out and pick a pocket or two
0:33:06 > 0:33:10# You've got to pick a pocket or two, boys
0:33:12 > 0:33:14# You've got to pick a pocket or two. #
0:33:16 > 0:33:20I'd always been aware of Ron Moody's performance, which was wonderful.
0:33:20 > 0:33:26But I know I disappointed Lionel Bart who wanted something
0:33:26 > 0:33:30else, that I wasn't prepared to give them and that was a turn.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34And I wanted to play it as very character based
0:33:34 > 0:33:38and based in the reality of the man, and his situation.
0:33:40 > 0:33:42# You've got to pick a pocket or two. #
0:33:44 > 0:33:47Except it's very difficult, I'm being very honest with you
0:33:47 > 0:33:52now that I found it very difficult going from dialogue, which was
0:33:52 > 0:33:58OK dialogue and good dialogue. OK, it wasn't My Fair Lady.
0:33:58 > 0:34:03Going into in the middle of speaking going, "You see, Oliver, in this
0:34:03 > 0:34:07"life, one thing counts." And I was never that comfortable doing that.
0:34:07 > 0:34:10Cos I always had this little man on my shoulder going,
0:34:10 > 0:34:13I can't believe you're doing this. I can't believe you're doing this.
0:34:13 > 0:34:15What did you feel the audience reaction to your performance...
0:34:15 > 0:34:18- They loved me, they loved me.- So what was the problem?- I don't know.
0:34:18 > 0:34:22One afternoon after a matinee there was this one man at the stage
0:34:22 > 0:34:26door. He was the last one there and he said, "Absolutely wonderful,
0:34:26 > 0:34:29"Mr Pryce, absolutely wonderful, enjoyed it immensely."
0:34:29 > 0:34:31And I'm going, "Oh, thanks, thanks very much."
0:34:31 > 0:34:35And I'm signing and I'm smiling and he said, "Yes,
0:34:35 > 0:34:39"you're extraordinary, just..." and as he turned what he said,
0:34:39 > 0:34:43"You were just this much behind Ron Moody."
0:34:45 > 0:34:50And I was still smiling, as he walked away and I went, "What.
0:34:50 > 0:34:51"Oi, come here."
0:34:51 > 0:34:54# You got to pick a pocket or two
0:34:54 > 0:34:56Who says crime doesn't pay, eh?
0:34:58 > 0:35:00# Robin Hood, what a crook
0:35:00 > 0:35:02# Gave away... #
0:35:02 > 0:35:04Fagin has been played by an incredible roster of actors
0:35:04 > 0:35:06and performers.
0:35:06 > 0:35:10They include Roy Hudd, Griff Rhys Jones, Rowan Atkinson,
0:35:10 > 0:35:15Neil Morrissey, Barry Humphries, Robert Lindsay and Russ Abbot.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19# You've got to pick a pocket or two. #
0:35:19 > 0:35:22How long did it take you to find the character?
0:35:24 > 0:35:27Not a great deal, it was interesting because fortunately,
0:35:27 > 0:35:31Sam Mendes directed the first production I played and it was
0:35:31 > 0:35:35interesting because when we came to Reviewing the Situation, Sam said to
0:35:35 > 0:35:37me, "Now look this is where I think you can slightly break the
0:35:37 > 0:35:41"fourth wall, because this Reviewing the Situation is Fagin's Cabaret
0:35:41 > 0:35:42"moment."
0:35:42 > 0:35:47So, after the penultimate verse, I stopped the music, sat
0:35:47 > 0:35:50on the chest and I said, did a quick resume of the whole piece, like I said...
0:35:50 > 0:35:52Oliver Twist come to London to seek his fortune,
0:35:52 > 0:35:55I taught him everything I know. You got to pick a pocket or two.
0:35:55 > 0:35:57But we'll be back soon.
0:35:57 > 0:36:02SPEAKS INCOMPREHENSIBLY
0:36:03 > 0:36:06Blah-blah-blah, blah-blah-blah and I slowed it down
0:36:06 > 0:36:09and I said, "And that's what happened so far." And of course
0:36:09 > 0:36:13huge round of applause and turned to the audience to say,
0:36:13 > 0:36:16I'm Reviewing the Situation and then straight back into the last verse.
0:36:16 > 0:36:17And Sam didn't mind...
0:36:17 > 0:36:20- And Sam said, that's exactly what I meant.- Very clever.
0:36:23 > 0:36:27Apart from Fagin, I love the character of Nancy.
0:36:27 > 0:36:30She was played in the film with enormous guts
0:36:30 > 0:36:32and warmth by Shani Wallis.
0:36:33 > 0:36:35# Small pleasures
0:36:35 > 0:36:37# Small pleasures
0:36:37 > 0:36:40# Who would deny us these... #
0:36:41 > 0:36:44In the first UK tour of Oliver in the 1960s,
0:36:44 > 0:36:47Nancy was played by Marti Webb.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49I got a book by Richard Mayhew
0:36:49 > 0:36:53and he'd gone around at the same time as Dickens and interviewed
0:36:53 > 0:36:59people. Like thieves and thieves' women, which was Nancy, of course.
0:36:59 > 0:37:01So that sort of gave me some idea what it was like
0:37:01 > 0:37:04besides doing the show, because when you do a show,
0:37:04 > 0:37:07it's not just the part you play, it's the part that you don't play.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11Actually it's the unwritten script that gets you through it, gets you
0:37:11 > 0:37:14through the scenes. Especially as Nancy you don't have a lot of lines.
0:37:14 > 0:37:18You sing a lot, that's for sure, but you don't actually say a lot,
0:37:18 > 0:37:20so there's a lot that goes on unsaid.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23And you, you can't just, sing the pretty melody.
0:37:23 > 0:37:27- Oh, no, no, no.- You've got to act. It's almost like a script,
0:37:27 > 0:37:29the songs are almost like a script, are they?
0:37:29 > 0:37:31Yes, well, if you're lucky, you get a good director that also
0:37:31 > 0:37:34helps you through that, and actually says it to you.
0:37:34 > 0:37:36I remember the first time I was singing, Small Pleasures.
0:37:36 > 0:37:38# Small pleasures, small pleasures,
0:37:38 > 0:37:39# Who would deny us these? #
0:37:39 > 0:37:41He said to me, "Why are you smiling?"
0:37:41 > 0:37:44I really couldn't answer. It was like, I thought...
0:37:44 > 0:37:47I don't really know really and I said, "Oh, I don't really know,
0:37:47 > 0:37:49he said, "There's not a lot to smile about, is there?"
0:37:49 > 0:37:51And he said, "Have you listened to the lyric?"
0:37:51 > 0:37:54And I said, "Well, yes of course." And he said, "Well,
0:37:54 > 0:37:55"not a lot to smile about."
0:37:55 > 0:37:58And I suddenly thought, "no, you should really think about this."
0:37:58 > 0:38:00It's true, you don't have to smile all the time
0:38:00 > 0:38:03when you're singing a song. You know, just think about what you're
0:38:03 > 0:38:06- actually singing, think about the lyric.- And your predicament.
0:38:06 > 0:38:08Yes, exactly, so you actually act it more.
0:38:08 > 0:38:10And I think, because of that, that stayed
0:38:10 > 0:38:13throughout my life, that has actually stayed with me.
0:38:13 > 0:38:17I always think exactly what I'm saying, why I'm saying it,
0:38:17 > 0:38:20and the situation that I'm saying it in.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22The musical theatre has always created memorable
0:38:22 > 0:38:26roles for women, from Annie Oakley to Eliza Doolittle,
0:38:26 > 0:38:29to Nancy and Sally Bowles.
0:38:29 > 0:38:31But in the 1970s, Tim Rice
0:38:31 > 0:38:35and Andrew Lloyd Webber created the ultimate female role.
0:38:35 > 0:38:39It was the most unlikely subject, the life and death of Eva Peron,
0:38:39 > 0:38:43but at the time it became the most coveted role in the theatre.
0:38:43 > 0:38:46Casting took many months.
0:38:46 > 0:38:50I went to Kensington Market and bought myself an original
0:38:50 > 0:38:57'40s blue and white frock...and some hooker kind of shoes and
0:38:57 > 0:39:01every time I went for the audition, I always wore the same clothes.
0:39:01 > 0:39:04So that, I thought to myself,
0:39:04 > 0:39:08"Oh, it's a recognition value for them. Every time I come if
0:39:08 > 0:39:11"I always wear the same thing they'll think 'Oh, yes it's her,' hopefully."
0:39:11 > 0:39:12How many auditions did you have to do?
0:39:12 > 0:39:16Eight, eight or more auditions. Back and back and back...
0:39:16 > 0:39:18I think we knew very quickly, very quickly
0:39:18 > 0:39:20and we were all crazy about her.
0:39:20 > 0:39:25Hal Prince did say to me that that was indeed true. That every time
0:39:25 > 0:39:29he saw me he said, "Oh, here comes that girl with those fuck me shoes on."
0:39:31 > 0:39:32So it worked.
0:39:42 > 0:39:47Overnight, Elaine Paige went from obscurity to media sensation.
0:39:47 > 0:39:49Her musical apprenticeship was over.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51Her reign as a star was about to begin.
0:39:54 > 0:39:58She's got the best set of pipes in the business.
0:39:58 > 0:40:03What's interesting is, I didn't know what a good actress she is.
0:40:03 > 0:40:06I remember thinking, "This is going to be something special."
0:40:06 > 0:40:10He's got a vision. For example, the big song
0:40:10 > 0:40:15Don't Cry For Me Argentina and he said, "Really, you must remember
0:40:15 > 0:40:19"that this is a very important political speech. It's a speech.
0:40:19 > 0:40:24"Let's forget the music and I want you to think of it in those terms."
0:40:25 > 0:40:30# Don't cry for me, Argentina
0:40:31 > 0:40:36# The truth is I never left you
0:40:36 > 0:40:39# All through my wild days... #
0:40:39 > 0:40:44There was a sort of strength and feeling of power
0:40:44 > 0:40:49standing 30 feet up on this huge, ah...
0:40:49 > 0:40:52- You actually felt how she... - Yes.
0:40:52 > 0:40:54You began to realise what she must have felt.
0:40:54 > 0:40:57Yes, it's a powerful moment
0:40:57 > 0:41:00for any actor to play that moment.
0:41:00 > 0:41:05# Don't cry for me, Argentina... #
0:41:05 > 0:41:09It took nearly 20 years to bring Evita from stage to screen.
0:41:09 > 0:41:14And for the role of Eva Peron the producers turned to the first
0:41:14 > 0:41:18lady of pop, the most powerful woman in show business - Madonna.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21# Don't keep your distance.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26# Why are you at my side? #
0:41:27 > 0:41:31At her side as Colonel Peron was Jonathan Pryce,
0:41:31 > 0:41:33by now a veteran of the musical theatre.
0:41:33 > 0:41:37Did you find acting with somebody who was not
0:41:37 > 0:41:41kind of, of the theatre, Madonna, did that present problems?
0:41:41 > 0:41:44Well, she was of her theatre, her world.
0:41:44 > 0:41:46- Yes. - It was...
0:41:47 > 0:41:51I thought she was great in the role and she worked very
0:41:51 > 0:41:52hard at...
0:41:54 > 0:41:58..not being Madonna on film. But she knew what she was
0:41:58 > 0:42:02doing, you know, the most brilliant lip-synching you've ever seen.
0:42:06 > 0:42:10When Evita was revived for a second time on Broadway in 2012,
0:42:10 > 0:42:13the producers cast a young Argentinean performer,
0:42:13 > 0:42:15Elena Roger, as Eva.
0:42:18 > 0:42:23Elena had already won an Olivier award in London playing Edith Piaf.
0:42:23 > 0:42:25She is such an exciting talent.
0:42:34 > 0:42:36Did you ever see Evita before you got to play it?
0:42:36 > 0:42:43No, I never saw it. I never saw it and I watched the film
0:42:43 > 0:42:48to know how was the... Because when I had to do the auditions
0:42:48 > 0:42:52I start learning all the songs but I didn't know where were they.
0:42:52 > 0:42:55You know, I had the songs, I didn't have the whole score so,
0:42:55 > 0:42:59I had only the songs, so I watch the film to see how was the story.
0:43:00 > 0:43:02God.
0:43:02 > 0:43:08You can't just copy Madonna or Elaine Paige, it has to be you.
0:43:08 > 0:43:09How do you set about that?
0:43:09 > 0:43:14The script allows you to do those colours.
0:43:14 > 0:43:20Allows you to go to the dictator to a very sensitive woman. You know,
0:43:20 > 0:43:24there is a lot of colours you can find in that score and script.
0:43:24 > 0:43:29What skills did you have to improve the most
0:43:29 > 0:43:31when you first did the part?
0:43:31 > 0:43:35I thought I was a good singer until I had to play Evita.
0:43:38 > 0:43:39Wow.
0:43:39 > 0:43:45That new ending of Buenos Aires, Star Quality.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48That Andrew, he thought... I remember that day
0:43:48 > 0:43:50we were in the audition and I was like
0:43:50 > 0:43:52# Just a little touch of
0:43:52 > 0:43:54LOW PITCHED: # Star Quality. #
0:43:54 > 0:43:58And he said "Hmm, what if you do
0:43:58 > 0:44:00HIGH PITCHED: # Star Quality."
0:44:00 > 0:44:03And so he changed the tune there.
0:44:03 > 0:44:06I have to go up instead of going down.
0:44:06 > 0:44:11It was easier because I was dancing, but still a very high note.
0:44:11 > 0:44:14Tell me what your favourite, from a performance point of view,
0:44:14 > 0:44:17what your favourite moments are in the show?
0:44:17 > 0:44:20- In the show... - Yes, vocally or in the scenes.
0:44:20 > 0:44:27I like a lot You Must Love Me, for example. I think it is a very
0:44:27 > 0:44:32tiny, simple moment where...
0:44:33 > 0:44:35..all the craziness
0:44:35 > 0:44:42of the show stops and makes you realise what is life, what is death.
0:44:44 > 0:44:49# Scared to confess what I'm feeling
0:44:49 > 0:44:53# Frightened you'll slip away
0:44:54 > 0:44:57# You must love me
0:44:59 > 0:45:02# You must love me. #
0:45:04 > 0:45:06Does it still move you? Some nights or every night?
0:45:06 > 0:45:08- Every night.- Every night? - Every night.
0:45:08 > 0:45:09# ...me. #
0:45:14 > 0:45:19In 1979 I was in New York and I went to a preview of Stephen Sondheim's
0:45:19 > 0:45:23new musical - Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
0:45:23 > 0:45:28- It was bleak, terrifying and funny. - The story of a barber who cuts
0:45:28 > 0:45:32the throats of his customers while his partner bakes them into pies.
0:45:33 > 0:45:36In my view Sondheim has created two of the greatest
0:45:36 > 0:45:40roles in the musical theatre, the part of Sweeney Todd himself
0:45:40 > 0:45:43and the pie-maker Mrs Lovett.
0:45:43 > 0:45:45Here we are dear, hot out of the oven.
0:45:47 > 0:45:49What is that?
0:45:49 > 0:45:53# It's priest, have a little priest
0:45:53 > 0:45:54# Is it really good?
0:45:54 > 0:45:57# Sir, it's too good at least, then again... #
0:45:57 > 0:46:01Sweeney Todd is set in London in the same period as Oliver Twist,
0:46:01 > 0:46:06but the characters are a far cry from the lovable rogues of "Oliver!".
0:46:06 > 0:46:10The show is as complex and as thrilling as any Shakespearean
0:46:10 > 0:46:13tragedy and just as challenging for the actors.
0:46:13 > 0:46:16Angela Lansbury's Mrs Lovett was sublime.
0:46:16 > 0:46:18# ...deceased, try the priest. #
0:46:21 > 0:46:23Heavenly!
0:46:23 > 0:46:28Angela Lansbury's probably the biggest star I've ever worked with.
0:46:28 > 0:46:33And that's because she's one of the most talented actresses I've ever
0:46:33 > 0:46:40seen and worked with and one of the most energizing to collaborate with.
0:46:40 > 0:46:41This one might be a bit uh,
0:46:41 > 0:46:45stringy, but then of course, it's a fiddle player.
0:46:46 > 0:46:50No, this isn't fiddle player. It's piccolo player.
0:46:50 > 0:46:52How can you tell?
0:46:52 > 0:46:53It's piping hot.
0:46:56 > 0:46:58Then blow on it first.
0:46:58 > 0:47:02She was chillingly comic when she spoke and when she sang.
0:47:02 > 0:47:04I found her performance mesmerizing.
0:47:04 > 0:47:06# Oh, Mr Todd, what does it tell?
0:47:06 > 0:47:09# Is who gets eaten and who gets to eat! #
0:47:09 > 0:47:11At the time that I saw this show,
0:47:11 > 0:47:15I was the director of programmes at London Weekend Television.
0:47:15 > 0:47:17I can remember rushing out of the theatre
0:47:17 > 0:47:21and calling Melvyn Bragg and saying, "If Sweeney Todd comes to London
0:47:21 > 0:47:24"we have to do a South Bank Show special."
0:47:25 > 0:47:28Sure enough, Hal Prince and Stephen Sondheim brought this
0:47:28 > 0:47:33extraordinary story of revenge and madness to the West End.
0:47:33 > 0:47:35Our cameras were there to record the rehearsals
0:47:35 > 0:47:37and the performance of its leading actors -
0:47:37 > 0:47:42Denis Quilley as Sweeney Todd and Sheila Hancock as Mrs Lovett.
0:47:42 > 0:47:44What is that?
0:47:44 > 0:47:47# It's priest. Have a little priest.
0:47:47 > 0:47:49# Is it really good?
0:47:49 > 0:47:51# Sir, it's too good, at least.
0:47:51 > 0:47:54# Then again they don't commit sins of the flesh.
0:47:54 > 0:47:56# So it's pretty fresh. #
0:47:57 > 0:48:01I thought these two really captured Mrs Lovett and Sweeney Todd.
0:48:01 > 0:48:03Sheila Hancock with wonderful comic timing
0:48:03 > 0:48:06and Denis Quilley with great physical menace.
0:48:06 > 0:48:10# ...see a scrawny assed poet, you don't really know it... #
0:48:10 > 0:48:11No, what's that line?
0:48:11 > 0:48:15The show closed after just 157 performances with some
0:48:15 > 0:48:18critics writing scathing reviews.
0:48:18 > 0:48:21But it did win an Olivier for best musical.
0:48:21 > 0:48:23Denis Quilley predicted that it would return one
0:48:23 > 0:48:25day for a longer run.
0:48:25 > 0:48:27Not as hearty as bishop perhaps!
0:48:32 > 0:48:34How right he was.
0:48:34 > 0:48:38In 2012 Sweeney Todd was revived to great acclaim, winning over
0:48:38 > 0:48:40audiences and critics.
0:48:40 > 0:48:43Michael Ball took on this most demanding of roles.
0:48:47 > 0:48:52I always had this dream of doing Sweeney.
0:48:52 > 0:48:57Imelda Staunton came onto my radio show
0:48:57 > 0:49:00and I did something so unprofessional but
0:49:00 > 0:49:04I couldn't not. She was there, as a record is playing I said,
0:49:04 > 0:49:08"I have this idea." And in my head she'd always been the perfect...
0:49:08 > 0:49:09Mrs Lovett.
0:49:09 > 0:49:13..Mrs Lovett. And I asked her if I could get this to happen,
0:49:13 > 0:49:16would she come and play it? And she said absolutely she would.
0:49:16 > 0:49:18I learned the music.
0:49:18 > 0:49:21I learned the words of all the songs because I knew how difficult
0:49:21 > 0:49:24they would be. And I wanted them at the back of my head.
0:49:26 > 0:49:29So that I didn't have to ever, ever think about,
0:49:29 > 0:49:30"Oh, what's the next
0:49:30 > 0:49:35"bit, what's the next bit?" Because I needed my muscles to be so relaxed
0:49:35 > 0:49:40in one respect, so that I wasn't thinking of anything technical.
0:49:40 > 0:49:43So that I could really, invest and investigate...
0:49:43 > 0:49:44The emotion.
0:49:44 > 0:49:47..the emotion and how to do her.
0:49:47 > 0:49:49And I remember people say, "Oh, Mrs Lovett,
0:49:49 > 0:49:51"Oh, you'll be great cause she's so funny."
0:49:51 > 0:49:55And I used to think, I don't think she is that funny.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58What were you looking for in the part?
0:49:58 > 0:50:03I was looking for, always and this is Imelda as well
0:50:03 > 0:50:04helping so much, is truth.
0:50:06 > 0:50:08The real villain in Sweeney Todd is Mrs Lovett.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12- Sweeney is damaged... - He's a victim.
0:50:12 > 0:50:14..and ruined.
0:50:14 > 0:50:17She has to duck and dive, according to his mood.
0:50:17 > 0:50:21And also I felt there was a fair amount of Lady Macbeth in there.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24It was come on, we've gotta do this, what about doing that?
0:50:24 > 0:50:27I know, we could make it happen, no problem. Leave it to me.
0:50:27 > 0:50:28I can handle it.
0:50:28 > 0:50:31I can't handle it. What am I going to do? And actually if
0:50:31 > 0:50:34he knows that information it's not going to work. Keep that down.
0:50:34 > 0:50:38So all her levels, I thought... She's got many,
0:50:38 > 0:50:43many levels dressed up in this seemingly bit of a thick
0:50:43 > 0:50:47sort of cockney sort of woman who, you know, is just a bit of a laugh.
0:50:48 > 0:50:51- But behind... - But behind it she has dead.
0:50:52 > 0:50:56There's a deadness to her, at the back.
0:50:56 > 0:51:01I have to say I think, emotionally, my favourite moment was
0:51:01 > 0:51:06when we... When she sings, Because I Love You.
0:51:07 > 0:51:12Because I always felt that is
0:51:12 > 0:51:15her whole reason for the last two and a half hours...
0:51:15 > 0:51:17Of carnage.
0:51:17 > 0:51:20..of carnage because she genuinely loved him.
0:51:20 > 0:51:26And that moment for me, to play was so satisfying
0:51:26 > 0:51:32and desperate and heart wrenching. That was the best for me.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34# Cos I love you
0:51:34 > 0:51:38# I'd be twice the wife she was
0:51:38 > 0:51:40# I love you
0:51:40 > 0:51:44# What have I done
0:51:44 > 0:51:47# Mrs Lovett, you're a bloody wonder... #
0:51:47 > 0:51:49It's high drama and high opera.
0:51:49 > 0:51:50It is indeed. It is indeed.
0:51:50 > 0:51:54And for me there is no greater role,
0:51:54 > 0:51:57I don't think, in musical theatre.
0:51:57 > 0:52:01It's the Lear, you know, for a performer of my age.
0:52:01 > 0:52:03I think it is.
0:52:03 > 0:52:06It's one to go, done that.
0:52:07 > 0:52:13# With their voices soft as thunder
0:52:13 > 0:52:15# As they tear your hope apart. #
0:52:15 > 0:52:18"A witless and synthetic entertainment,"
0:52:18 > 0:52:20"a lurid Victorian melodrama."
0:52:20 > 0:52:23These were just two of the awful reviews of this show
0:52:23 > 0:52:26when it opened in 1985.
0:52:26 > 0:52:30Yet it went on to become the longest running musical in history.
0:52:30 > 0:52:32It is, of course, Les Miserables.
0:52:33 > 0:52:38# That we will live the years together
0:52:38 > 0:52:44# But there are dreams that cannot be... #
0:52:45 > 0:52:49Based on Victor Hugo's epic novel set in post-revolutionary
0:52:49 > 0:52:53Paris, Les Mis is my final musical great.
0:52:53 > 0:52:58# I had a dream my life would be
0:52:58 > 0:53:02# So different from this hell I'm living
0:53:02 > 0:53:07# So different now from what it seemed
0:53:12 > 0:53:20# Now life has killed the dream
0:53:21 > 0:53:29# I dreamed. #
0:53:34 > 0:53:37# A heart full of love... #
0:53:37 > 0:53:40Michael Ball was in Manchester playing the Pirates of Penzance
0:53:40 > 0:53:43when he was asked to audition for the part of Marius.
0:53:43 > 0:53:45Had you any idea what you were letting yourself in for?
0:53:45 > 0:53:49No, I didn't even read the book. I...
0:53:49 > 0:53:51It's a gig, it's a job.
0:53:51 > 0:53:53It's a gig.
0:53:53 > 0:53:55I just thought, "We'll see, you know, what is this thing."
0:53:55 > 0:54:00What was instantly apparent was that he had a tremendous,
0:54:00 > 0:54:04in addition to the wonderful voice, he had a tremendous energy,
0:54:04 > 0:54:07and sense of humour.
0:54:07 > 0:54:10He was, he was ebullient
0:54:10 > 0:54:15and just sort of created fun around him.
0:54:15 > 0:54:19I do remember the opening day that the nerves of the first
0:54:19 > 0:54:24day of rehearsal and Trevor is kind of renowned for his opening
0:54:24 > 0:54:26- speech to a... - A new cast.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29..a new cast. And Trevor starts talking
0:54:29 > 0:54:32with us all around there, and we're all absolutely enraptured.
0:54:34 > 0:54:39By hour one and a half, we're kind of all going back a bit, yeah.
0:54:39 > 0:54:44By hour three, coming up to lunch, we're all going, "Dear God in heaven."
0:54:44 > 0:54:46And he finally said, "Right, nearly finished.
0:54:46 > 0:54:49"We'll stop for lunch there and then all come back.
0:54:49 > 0:54:51"Are there any questions?"
0:54:51 > 0:54:52And all of us like that.
0:54:52 > 0:54:57And this little boy goes, puts his hand up and Trevor goes, "yes."
0:54:57 > 0:54:59And he went, "What did you say again?"
0:55:03 > 0:55:10And that set the tone for the entire rehearsal process.
0:55:10 > 0:55:14For all of us I think one of the most thrilling moments was the
0:55:14 > 0:55:17first time we sang through
0:55:17 > 0:55:21One Day More, the finale of Act One which
0:55:21 > 0:55:25I think is probably the greatest end to an act there has ever been.
0:55:25 > 0:55:28And all of us learning our different parts in different
0:55:28 > 0:55:31places then coming together and singing it together.
0:55:31 > 0:55:33And even now I get shivers.
0:55:33 > 0:55:35# One day more
0:55:35 > 0:55:37# I will join these people's heroes
0:55:37 > 0:55:40# I will follow where they go
0:55:40 > 0:55:43# I will learn their little secrets
0:55:43 > 0:55:46# I will know the things they know
0:55:46 > 0:55:48# One day more to revolution
0:55:48 > 0:55:51# We will nip it in the bud... #
0:55:51 > 0:55:54The whole thing of Trevor's ethos is it's an ensemble,
0:55:54 > 0:55:55you know.
0:55:55 > 0:56:00There is no prima donna-ship. It was... We owned it.
0:56:00 > 0:56:02That's why we care so passionately about Les Mis,
0:56:02 > 0:56:08because all of us in the original cast feel tremendous ownership.
0:56:08 > 0:56:16# One day more. #
0:56:26 > 0:56:32# I dreamed a dream in time gone by... #
0:56:34 > 0:56:37Audiences care passionately about Les Mis.
0:56:37 > 0:56:41More than 60 million people worldwide have seen it. It's still
0:56:41 > 0:56:45running in the West End after more than 11,000 performances.
0:56:45 > 0:56:49The movie version is another brilliant success.
0:56:49 > 0:56:52I think it's the best musical film since Cabaret.
0:56:52 > 0:56:55I was delighted that Anne Hathaway won an Oscar.
0:56:55 > 0:57:01# ..From what it seemed... #
0:57:01 > 0:57:05But the enduring appeal of Les Mis proves that the show doesn't
0:57:05 > 0:57:07depend on any one star.
0:57:07 > 0:57:13# ..I dreamed. #
0:57:15 > 0:57:18It is certainly true that today's musicals
0:57:18 > 0:57:20are no longer star vehicles.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22The star of the show is the show.
0:57:26 > 0:57:30Yet there's a marked absence of innovation on show today.
0:57:30 > 0:57:34Where the musical theatre used to lead, it now follows.
0:57:34 > 0:57:38Old, familiar pop songs and movies are re-worked for the stage.
0:57:38 > 0:57:40Musical theatre is playing it safe.
0:57:43 > 0:57:45I think one always has to be optimistic.
0:57:45 > 0:57:48It's just a question of what next with the form.
0:57:49 > 0:57:52You should strive to do something,
0:57:52 > 0:57:54perhaps, that you've never quite seen before.
0:57:57 > 0:57:58Would you do another musical, yes?
0:57:58 > 0:58:02- Oh, God, yes. I don't want to do anything else.- Really?
0:58:02 > 0:58:05I mean it's amazing, it's such... It's so uplifting and it's
0:58:05 > 0:58:08so demanding and challenging. It's great.
0:58:10 > 0:58:15Many shows may be predictable today, but I remain an optimist.
0:58:15 > 0:58:19Audiences have never been greater and the depth of talent available
0:58:19 > 0:58:21today is awesome.
0:58:21 > 0:58:25It can't be long before a new star comes along.
0:58:25 > 0:58:28The future is bright, and for me, the future is musical.
0:58:30 > 0:58:33# There's no business like show business
0:58:33 > 0:58:37# Like no business I know
0:58:37 > 0:58:40# Everything about it is appealing
0:58:41 > 0:58:45# Everything that traffic will allow
0:58:45 > 0:58:48# Nowhere could you get that happy feeling
0:58:48 > 0:58:52# When you are stealing that extra bow
0:58:52 > 0:58:56# There's no people like show people
0:58:56 > 0:58:59# They smile when they are low... #