0:00:02 > 0:00:03KNOCKING
0:00:06 > 0:00:08A valuable package has just arrived.
0:00:10 > 0:00:14It contains a work of conceptual art by Martin Creed,
0:00:14 > 0:00:17one of Britain's most celebrated artists.
0:00:21 > 0:00:25I bought this piece from Martin Creed's gallery online.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28It cost me £180,
0:00:28 > 0:00:32and I've been given very specific instructions on how to open it.
0:00:32 > 0:00:38Apparently, I have to use a scalpel to prise this box open
0:00:38 > 0:00:41as delicately as I can, like this.
0:00:45 > 0:00:46Let's open it up.
0:00:55 > 0:00:56That's it.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58I THINK that's it.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Oh, there's something in here.
0:01:03 > 0:01:08A certificate - "Martin Creed work number 88.
0:01:08 > 0:01:13"A sheet of A4 paper crumpled into a ball."
0:01:17 > 0:01:21Welcome to the puzzling, sometimes maddening world of conceptual art.
0:01:22 > 0:01:26This piece perhaps encapsulates why so many people struggle
0:01:26 > 0:01:29with conceptual art.
0:01:29 > 0:01:30It doesn't seem to require much skill,
0:01:30 > 0:01:32it's not particularly beautiful,
0:01:32 > 0:01:35and ultimately, it feels like a bit of a rip-off.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37But maybe we're all missing something.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44'And so, in this film, I'm going to attempt the near-impossible -
0:01:44 > 0:01:47'to really understand conceptual art.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50'What is conceptual art?
0:01:51 > 0:01:53'How should we approach it?
0:01:54 > 0:01:56'And why should we care?
0:01:58 > 0:02:00'To answer these and other questions,
0:02:00 > 0:02:02'I'm going to examine its key works...'
0:02:03 > 0:02:05GUNSHOT
0:02:05 > 0:02:08..meet the movers and shakers of today...
0:02:08 > 0:02:12'and experience some cutting-edge contemporary conceptual art...
0:02:14 > 0:02:17'..in an open-minded guide for the perplexed.'
0:02:20 > 0:02:24And who knows, by the end of it, we might have all changed our minds.
0:02:37 > 0:02:38Before the 20th century,
0:02:38 > 0:02:40there were objects,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42and there were artworks.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44Now, let's begin with the objects.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46Some objects were natural,
0:02:46 > 0:02:48some of them functional,
0:02:48 > 0:02:51some of them not very beautiful.
0:02:51 > 0:02:52Artworks, on the other hand,
0:02:52 > 0:02:53were made by artists,
0:02:53 > 0:02:59and they were very beautiful, and often very, very expensive.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01Now, people were very happy with this distinction -
0:03:01 > 0:03:03they knew where they stood.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05But then, about 100 years ago,
0:03:05 > 0:03:08that system began to fall apart.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10Now, what happened was this -
0:03:10 > 0:03:16objects became more and more like artworks,
0:03:16 > 0:03:21and artworks became more and more like objects.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26Gradually, they began to swap places,
0:03:26 > 0:03:31until, eventually, it became difficult to know
0:03:31 > 0:03:33which one was which.
0:03:37 > 0:03:41Now, this left a lot of people very confused, and some people
0:03:41 > 0:03:43very, very angry.
0:03:43 > 0:03:48But it was the first major innovation of conceptual art.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53And its first great innovator was the enigmatic Frenchman,
0:03:53 > 0:03:58Marcel Duchamp, the chain-smoking sphinx of modern art.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02Duchamp had started as a painter, but around 1913,
0:04:02 > 0:04:05he became increasingly attracted to unassuming,
0:04:05 > 0:04:11everyday objects, that he began presenting as ready-made artworks.
0:04:11 > 0:04:12A bicycle wheel.
0:04:16 > 0:04:17A bottle rack.
0:04:23 > 0:04:24A snow shovel.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32And, most famously, a urinal.
0:04:35 > 0:04:40So what was Duchamp up to with his taste-defying ready-mades?
0:04:40 > 0:04:44Taste is the great enemy of art, A-R-T, mm?
0:04:45 > 0:04:47That was the difficulty -
0:04:47 > 0:04:51to find an object that had no attraction whatsoever
0:04:51 > 0:04:54from the aesthetic angle.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59Of course, humour came in as an element.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03It was very important for me to introduce humour.
0:05:03 > 0:05:05That was my intention,
0:05:05 > 0:05:09to do something that would not please everybody, mm?
0:05:11 > 0:05:14Marcel Duchamp was being deliberately subversive,
0:05:14 > 0:05:17while also making a revolutionary point.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21Not everything was art, but anything COULD be art. Why?
0:05:21 > 0:05:23Because the object didn't matter any longer.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27What mattered was the idea, the concept.
0:05:27 > 0:05:31And that was the beginning of what we've come to call conceptual art.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36Duchamp did a hit-and-run on the art world.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38After dropping his conceptual bombshell,
0:05:38 > 0:05:42he abandoned it, and became a professional chess player instead.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46But his audacious acts opened the floodgates.
0:05:49 > 0:05:5320th-century art abounds with his disciples,
0:05:53 > 0:05:57but one of the most original was a mischievous Italian aristocrat.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02Piero Manzoni was a self-taught artist who rose to prominence
0:06:02 > 0:06:04with his Achromes,
0:06:04 > 0:06:06a series of white-surfaced works
0:06:06 > 0:06:09made from increasingly unusual materials.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15But by the end of the 1950s, Manzoni began questioning the nature
0:06:15 > 0:06:18of the art object in bizarre new ways.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23He signed real bodies to make living sculptures...
0:06:24 > 0:06:26..drew never-ending lines...
0:06:28 > 0:06:30..blew up balloons...
0:06:31 > 0:06:35..and called the resulting sculptures Artist's Breath,
0:06:35 > 0:06:37pressed his thumb print onto hard-boiled eggs
0:06:37 > 0:06:39for the public to consume...
0:06:41 > 0:06:44..and even created an upside-down plinth
0:06:44 > 0:06:47that presented the whole world as a work of art.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52But his most notorious conceptual creation
0:06:52 > 0:06:55pushed both art and propriety to the limit.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58AIR ESCAPES LOUDLY
0:06:58 > 0:07:05In May 1961, Manzoni sat down and produced 90 unique sculptures.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08He then tinned, signed and numbered them.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12And they contain something, well...surprising.
0:07:14 > 0:07:16Excrement.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19Manzoni's own excrement, and if you don't believe me,
0:07:19 > 0:07:21just look at the label,
0:07:21 > 0:07:24which, helpfully, comes in four different languages.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28"Artist's shit, contents - 30g net.
0:07:28 > 0:07:34"Freshly preserved, produced and tinned, May 1961."
0:07:34 > 0:07:36If you thought conceptual art was crap,
0:07:36 > 0:07:38here's your proof.
0:07:41 > 0:07:42But Manzoni wasn't done.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46His outrageous asking price for these little tins
0:07:46 > 0:07:48was a crucial part of the artwork itself.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55Manzoni declared that each 30-gram tin was worth its weight
0:07:55 > 0:07:57in gold - actual gold.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Now, you might think, "Who in their right mind would want to buy
0:08:00 > 0:08:04"someone else's faeces, let alone for the same price as gold?"
0:08:04 > 0:08:06well, as it turns out, quite a lot of people did.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10Last year, Christie's sold a tin just like this - number 54 -
0:08:10 > 0:08:13for £182,500,
0:08:13 > 0:08:18and that made Manzoni's turd, gram for gram,
0:08:18 > 0:08:22almost 200 more times more expensive than gold.
0:08:24 > 0:08:25So what does it all mean?
0:08:25 > 0:08:28Is a turd the ultimate personal ready-made?
0:08:28 > 0:08:30HE SNIFFS
0:08:30 > 0:08:33Who is it meant to provoke?
0:08:33 > 0:08:36And what was Manzoni's endgame?
0:08:36 > 0:08:40I'll be honest - I really don't know what to make of this piece.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43My instinct is that Manzoni's making fun of us.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46He's making fun of museums, critics,
0:08:46 > 0:08:48he's making fun of people who've got more money than sense.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50He's making fun of the whole madness
0:08:50 > 0:08:52and pretentiousness of the art world.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54And I have to admit, part of me feels like
0:08:54 > 0:08:56a bit of an idiot for coming all this way to look at something
0:08:56 > 0:08:57that is, essentially,
0:08:57 > 0:09:00a shit on a plinth.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03But you know, thinking about it, I realise that for all its silliness,
0:09:03 > 0:09:07it is actually an extremely clever conceit.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10It could be anything in that tin, but we will never know,
0:09:10 > 0:09:12because as soon as we open that tin,
0:09:12 > 0:09:14the artwork's destroyed, the value is lost,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17so we will never ever find out.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21If this tin contains anything,
0:09:21 > 0:09:23it contains an idea.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27This piece feels like a shit-filled hand grenade
0:09:27 > 0:09:31that Manzoni has flung 55 years into the future,
0:09:31 > 0:09:33and we still don't know how to defuse it.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37No wonder he looks so proud of himself.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Piero Manzoni died at the age of 29,
0:09:41 > 0:09:46but he proved that conceptual artists had a Midas touch.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49A good idea could convert practically anything
0:09:49 > 0:09:51into a masterpiece.
0:09:51 > 0:09:52And today, like Duchamp,
0:09:52 > 0:09:56he's regarded as one of the forefathers of conceptual art -
0:09:56 > 0:10:00a pioneering provocateur, whose influence lives on.
0:10:03 > 0:10:05One of the figures he's helped inspire
0:10:05 > 0:10:08is the artist who began this programme -
0:10:08 > 0:10:10Turner Prize winner, Martin Creed.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16# Understanding, I'm understanding
0:10:16 > 0:10:18# I'm understanding
0:10:18 > 0:10:19# I'm understanding! #
0:10:20 > 0:10:24Over a freewheeling career that includes making music,
0:10:24 > 0:10:28Creed has converted a whole range of things,
0:10:28 > 0:10:31and no-things, into art.
0:10:31 > 0:10:33# We were arguing... #
0:10:33 > 0:10:36- Blu-Tack... - # I'm a victim...
0:10:36 > 0:10:39..empty galleries with the lights coming on and off...
0:10:40 > 0:10:43..and, yes, even excrement.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46# What it felt like you were saying...
0:10:48 > 0:10:49# I'm understanding
0:10:49 > 0:10:50# I'm understanding
0:10:50 > 0:10:52# I'm understanding
0:10:52 > 0:10:54# Listening, I'm listening... #
0:10:54 > 0:10:57I've come to Hackney in East London to meet Martin
0:10:57 > 0:11:00as he launches a new album of songs.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03One, one, one, two, one, two.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06And I'm hoping he can shed some light on the ideas
0:11:06 > 0:11:09behind work number 88...
0:11:10 > 0:11:14..that scrunched up ball of paper that cost me £180.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20- A few days ago...- Yeah.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22- I purchased this, one of your pieces, work number 88.- Yeah!
0:11:22 > 0:11:26- And I wonder if you can help explain it to me.- Oh, right.
0:11:26 > 0:11:27Well...
0:11:27 > 0:11:30- Shall we open it?- Well... I was... Oh, yeah.- There you go.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's a crumpled ball of paper,
0:11:34 > 0:11:41inside a nest of shredded paper, to keep it from getting crumpled up.
0:11:41 > 0:11:42MARTIN CHUCKLES
0:11:42 > 0:11:47So, tell me how did you... How did you come to that idea of doing that?
0:11:47 > 0:11:52A friend was doing these editions where he was making booklets
0:11:52 > 0:11:54made out of A4 paper.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56He asked me if I'd make a book,
0:11:56 > 0:11:58but I just couldn't think of anything that I could, you know,
0:11:58 > 0:12:03put in a book, and I thought, well, if I crumpled it into a ball,
0:12:03 > 0:12:05the paper, instead of making a booklet out of it...
0:12:05 > 0:12:07Yeah, and that was it, and I thought it was funny,
0:12:07 > 0:12:11- because it looks like it's just a piece of garbage.- Mm.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13But I tried to make it...
0:12:13 > 0:12:15as beautifully as I could.
0:12:15 > 0:12:18So how do you do that? Do you have a particular method that you used?
0:12:18 > 0:12:21- Yeah.- I mean, apart from scrunching, obviously.- Yeah.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24The best way is to get the paper, and loosely crumpling it
0:12:24 > 0:12:28before you actually... So you don't just try to make the ball in one go.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30Usually about one in three of these works out.
0:12:30 > 0:12:32So, what is it that you're looking for?
0:12:32 > 0:12:35You know, when you say that two out of three you throw away,
0:12:35 > 0:12:38- what is wrong with the two? - A perfect sphere, you know...
0:12:38 > 0:12:41I mean, it's never perfect, but I feel like a sphere,
0:12:41 > 0:12:44or circle is a beautiful shape, cos it's equal in all directions,
0:12:44 > 0:12:47- you know, so you don't have to decide.- Mm.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50- You know, I like circles. - MARTIN CHUCKLES
0:12:50 > 0:12:54How many of those do you think you've made through your career?
0:12:54 > 0:12:57Well, I think they're numbered, so... But I don't know.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00Oh, this is 695!
0:13:03 > 0:13:06Martin's quest for the perfect paper ball
0:13:06 > 0:13:08reflects a broader interest in things.
0:13:11 > 0:13:12He's used cacti...
0:13:15 > 0:13:17..chairs...
0:13:17 > 0:13:19and that conceptual favourite, balloons,
0:13:19 > 0:13:22filling half of room with them in a work called
0:13:22 > 0:13:25Half The Air In A Given Space.
0:13:25 > 0:13:30But the crumpled ball is perhaps the hardest thing to appreciate as art.
0:13:31 > 0:13:35A lot of people, and probably a lot of our viewers, will be perplexed
0:13:35 > 0:13:37at this being called art.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39What would you say to those people?
0:13:39 > 0:13:43How would you try to answer their concerns?
0:13:43 > 0:13:46Er... Well, I wouldn't argue...
0:13:46 > 0:13:51Well, really want to argue with them, cos this is...
0:13:51 > 0:13:53I wouldn't call this art, either.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56But if it's not art, what is it?
0:13:56 > 0:13:58Well, it's something that, erm...
0:13:58 > 0:14:00I did...
0:14:00 > 0:14:02because I liked it.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06Yeah. I'm, erm...proud of this, you know?
0:14:06 > 0:14:09I wanted to get out of bed in the morning to do it.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11You know, I thought it was worth doing.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14I think a lot of the little things in life are important,
0:14:14 > 0:14:17you know, so not just all the things
0:14:17 > 0:14:20that are made out of gold, or whatever.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24You know, who says anyway what's good and what's bad, you know?
0:14:24 > 0:14:28If something is exciting, and it feels good,
0:14:28 > 0:14:32that's the test of things, you know?
0:14:36 > 0:14:39Martin Creed's a tricky man to pin down, and I'll admit,
0:14:39 > 0:14:42I'm not totally convinced by his paper ball,
0:14:42 > 0:14:47but he's helped persuade me of something really important.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51When confronted with conceptual art, we really shouldn't worry about
0:14:51 > 0:14:55whether it's art or not, because no-one really knows what art is.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Instead we should ask, is it funny,
0:14:58 > 0:15:02is it original, and perhaps most importantly, does it make us think?
0:15:02 > 0:15:07And, in a way, this little crumpled ball does all of those things.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18In 1897, a French humorist called Alphonse Allais introduced the world
0:15:18 > 0:15:20to a series of pictures.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24Each of them was a plain sheet of coloured paper.
0:15:24 > 0:15:29They appeared to depict nothing, until you read the titles.
0:15:29 > 0:15:30This one was called
0:15:30 > 0:15:34First Communion Of Anaemic Young Girls In A Snowstorm.
0:15:34 > 0:15:35This one,
0:15:35 > 0:15:41Apoplectic Cardinals Harvesting Tomatoes On The Shore Of The Red Sea.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44And this one, which I warn you isn't politically correct -
0:15:44 > 0:15:47Negroes Fighting In A Cellar At Night.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50Now, Allais was joking, of course, but his joke was
0:15:50 > 0:15:54a really important moment in the pre-history of conceptual art,
0:15:54 > 0:15:57because it showed that words
0:15:57 > 0:15:59can be more meaningful than images.
0:16:01 > 0:16:04When conceptual art really kicked off in the mid-1960s,
0:16:04 > 0:16:10many of its leading protagonists were so determined to purge art
0:16:10 > 0:16:14of its decorative frilliness, they turned more and more to words.
0:16:16 > 0:16:20In a revolutionary atmosphere, words were used to explain...
0:16:23 > 0:16:24..subvert...
0:16:25 > 0:16:28..and occasionally replace the art they described.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35And the results were often tricky to decipher.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45One piece proved especially mind-bending.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48In 1973, Michael Craig-Martin
0:16:48 > 0:16:52placed a glass of water on a shelf in a gallery,
0:16:52 > 0:16:55and titled it An Oak Tree.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59The work was completed by an accompanying text,
0:16:59 > 0:17:01a philosophical dialogue,
0:17:01 > 0:17:06presented as a Q and A session between artist and confused viewer.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11To begin with, could you describe this work?
0:17:11 > 0:17:13Yes, of course.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15What I've done is change a glass of water
0:17:15 > 0:17:17into a full-grown oak tree.
0:17:17 > 0:17:18It looks like a glass of water.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20Well, of course it does.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22I didn't change its appearance.
0:17:22 > 0:17:23But it's not a glass of water.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25It's an oak tree.
0:17:25 > 0:17:29Haven't you simply called this glass of water An Oak Tree?
0:17:29 > 0:17:32Absolutely not. It's not a glass of water any more.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38Seems to me that you are claiming to have worked a miracle.
0:17:38 > 0:17:39Isn't that case?
0:17:39 > 0:17:41I'm flattered that you think so.
0:17:41 > 0:17:46'In my opinion, this was neither an oak tree nor a glass of water.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49'It was an empty exercise in semantics
0:17:49 > 0:17:52'that deliberately confused its audience.'
0:17:52 > 0:17:56But Craig-Martin agreed with Duchamp and Manzoni -
0:17:56 > 0:18:01when it comes to conceptual art, it is the thought that counts.
0:18:01 > 0:18:05This was certainly the view of the American artist Sol LeWitt.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07In the 1960s he declared,
0:18:07 > 0:18:10"The idea becomes a machine that makes the art.
0:18:10 > 0:18:14"It is the objective of the artist who is concerned with conceptual art
0:18:14 > 0:18:18"to make his work mentally interesting to the spectator,
0:18:18 > 0:18:23"and therefore usually he would want it to become emotionally dry."
0:18:25 > 0:18:28This is one of my problems with conceptual art.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32It often put the brain before the heart.
0:18:32 > 0:18:33But not all of it does.
0:18:33 > 0:18:38Some artists used words to combine intellectual curiosity
0:18:38 > 0:18:40with real emotional power.
0:18:43 > 0:18:47One of the most talented was an American artist called Mary Kelly.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55And this is her stomach, heavily pregnant.
0:18:57 > 0:18:59Her resulting child went on to inspire
0:18:59 > 0:19:02one of conceptual art's more intimate works.
0:19:12 > 0:19:17In PostPartum Document, Mary Kelly recorded and analysed
0:19:17 > 0:19:20her changing relationship with her young son.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26A six-part series, each section concentrates on
0:19:26 > 0:19:29a different formative moment between mother and child...
0:19:31 > 0:19:34..blending unusual materials with words.
0:19:38 > 0:19:43Part One caused a scandal when first shown in 1976,
0:19:43 > 0:19:46because Kelly used her son's dirty nappy liners
0:19:46 > 0:19:48as a sort of canvas, onto which she typed
0:19:48 > 0:19:51a log of everything he'd eaten that day.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57This is the third section of Post-Partum Document,
0:19:57 > 0:20:03and I'm pleased to report there are no nappy stains in sight.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07In fact, it doesn't really leap out and grab you as a spectator.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11It consists of a series of small, really quite murky images
0:20:11 > 0:20:15that you could very easily miss when you're walking through the gallery.
0:20:15 > 0:20:19So what we really to do is step in and take a much closer look.
0:20:23 > 0:20:29The work is a kind of collaborative diary from the autumn of 1975,
0:20:29 > 0:20:33when Kelly's son first began nursery.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37Each picture contains a mixture of writing, coloured paper,
0:20:37 > 0:20:39and her son's crayon scribbles.
0:20:40 > 0:20:45So, what we're looking at is three columns of text.
0:20:45 > 0:20:50The first column, on the left - that documents Mary Kelly's son's
0:20:50 > 0:20:56own words, on the date 13th of September 1975.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58And a second column to the right of it -
0:20:58 > 0:21:04that documents Mary Kelly's response to her son's words on the same day.
0:21:04 > 0:21:07And the third column, which is probably the most interesting,
0:21:07 > 0:21:11and isn't typed, it's handwritten - this contains Mary Kelly's
0:21:11 > 0:21:14broader reflections on the original exchange.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18Now, it's quite complicated at first, but there is a logic to it,
0:21:18 > 0:21:20and once you understand that three-column structure,
0:21:20 > 0:21:23you can begin to understand the entire piece.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27And the closer you read,
0:21:27 > 0:21:30the more vividly their relationship comes to life.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54The demands of motherhood are clearly taking their toll
0:21:54 > 0:21:57by the final image, and it actually records some very fraught
0:21:57 > 0:22:00exchanges between mother and son.
0:22:00 > 0:22:02He refuses to go to sleep - he's bossing her about
0:22:02 > 0:22:05over pillows and stories.
0:22:05 > 0:22:06"He's bossing me around.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09"He'll just have to read the story I choose this time.
0:22:09 > 0:22:11"I'm trying not to be weak."
0:22:12 > 0:22:16And there's a particularly moving passage here where Kelly writes,
0:22:16 > 0:22:19"I feel somehow undermined. Not resentful, but just confused,
0:22:19 > 0:22:23"because just being affectionate isn't enough any more.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25"He tests me.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28"I feel I have to gain his respect, where before I felt assured of it
0:22:28 > 0:22:31"simply because I was his mother."
0:22:34 > 0:22:39Mary Kelly's art is about self-understanding.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43But it takes effort to understand it.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45This art isn't simply for looking at.
0:22:45 > 0:22:49You have to read it, analyse it, and decipher it.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51And it repays your hard work.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56You know, I'm actually really surprised
0:22:56 > 0:22:59at how powerful I find this piece.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01Because when you start investing in it,
0:23:01 > 0:23:03when you start getting up close and reading it,
0:23:03 > 0:23:07you really get drawn into this very intimate emotional world
0:23:07 > 0:23:12that's intelligent and witty and moving.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17Conceptual art - emotionally dry?
0:23:17 > 0:23:19Not here, that's for sure.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34Today, artists inspired by conceptual art
0:23:34 > 0:23:37are still trying to use words in fresh ways.
0:23:38 > 0:23:41One of them is Robert Montgomery.
0:23:45 > 0:23:48Robert aims to take text art out of the gallery,
0:23:48 > 0:23:50and into the wider world.
0:23:54 > 0:23:55From light pieces...
0:23:59 > 0:24:00..to fire poems...
0:24:03 > 0:24:06..to public billboards like this -
0:24:06 > 0:24:09one of two pieces he's invited me to come and see in London today.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12It's really exciting watching the piece unfold.
0:24:14 > 0:24:17It would take me at least two hours, what he can do in 20 minutes.
0:24:23 > 0:24:26So, the piece is up, and it says,
0:24:26 > 0:24:29"The air chases and scatters blue light
0:24:29 > 0:24:31"more than it scatters red light
0:24:31 > 0:24:33"That's why the sky is blue
0:24:33 > 0:24:36"When we are cloudless, when it is big-gushed
0:24:36 > 0:24:39"the screens which circle you like butterflies now
0:24:39 > 0:24:44"All your tomorrow's turned to electric waterfalls
0:24:44 > 0:24:48"Digital culture created a new kind of unconscious hipster capitalist.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51"Unsuck the glamour from these glass towers
0:24:51 > 0:24:53"Blank the sycophantic neon
0:24:53 > 0:24:55"Undress in the streets this summer
0:24:55 > 0:24:58"Make our universities free again
0:24:58 > 0:25:01"Save our fragile libraries".
0:25:01 > 0:25:05This is no picture, but it's chock full of imagery.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08You've got a combination here of the romantic and the political.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12So it starts with this wonderful description of the sky and clouds,
0:25:12 > 0:25:14almost pastoral set of lines,
0:25:14 > 0:25:16but then you finish with a very strong message.
0:25:16 > 0:25:21Yeah, I think of myself as a traditional British romantic...
0:25:21 > 0:25:23painter, in a sense, in the tradition of Turner.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25I want to talk about those things.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27I want to talk about romantic, transcendent sunsets,
0:25:27 > 0:25:31and I want to bring that into the dirtier life of today.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34You know, my idea of being an artist is to be engaged with the
0:25:34 > 0:25:37culture and politics of your time in a real way.
0:25:37 > 0:25:41It's also to do with billboards, in a way, defining the discourse
0:25:41 > 0:25:42and conversation of the city,
0:25:42 > 0:25:45and that becoming increasingly a conversation
0:25:45 > 0:25:47that treats us as only consumers.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49I want to touch on the subconscious mind
0:25:49 > 0:25:52through a medium that is used to sell us shampoo.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54So you are using the infrastructure of capitalism,
0:25:54 > 0:25:56but you're not trying to sell anything.
0:25:56 > 0:26:00In fact, you're trying to provide an antidote or...
0:26:00 > 0:26:02To what people normally find on their streets.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure I can be an antidote to capitalism
0:26:05 > 0:26:06just on my own, entirely.
0:26:06 > 0:26:10But I can certainly open up a more sensitive state of mind
0:26:10 > 0:26:11in this place.
0:26:11 > 0:26:15Do you find that people engage with these pieces?
0:26:15 > 0:26:16Yeah, I do.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18In 2004, I started in this neighbourhood
0:26:18 > 0:26:21doing billboard pieces, let's say...
0:26:21 > 0:26:23Would I say illegally? I would say unauthorised-ly.
0:26:23 > 0:26:27And I'd get hugged quite a lot by drunk estate agents who were
0:26:27 > 0:26:30wandering home to Essex, and would come up and say,
0:26:30 > 0:26:32"What is that, then, mate?
0:26:32 > 0:26:35"What's it an ad for?" "It's not an ad for anything."
0:26:35 > 0:26:38"Oh, is it poetry, is it art?" They'd ask those questions.
0:26:38 > 0:26:41And I would say, "Read it and see what do you think."
0:26:41 > 0:26:45And so, the question is to try to make poetry and contemporary art
0:26:45 > 0:26:49simple enough in 100 words that it's accessible to people.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53"Accessible" - not normally a word you associate with conceptual art.
0:26:57 > 0:26:59So, Robert, where are we heading now?
0:26:59 > 0:27:03We're heading Bermondsey Wall East, which is on the south of
0:27:03 > 0:27:06the River Thames, and we have a light piece there today.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10What is it specifically about words that appeal to you as a medium?
0:27:10 > 0:27:13I think there's a certain slowness to words.
0:27:13 > 0:27:17I think we probably live in an age of accelerated image,
0:27:17 > 0:27:21and we are bombarded with, like, hundreds of images a day.
0:27:21 > 0:27:23And, ironically, in that context,
0:27:23 > 0:27:26words can be a moment of quiet, or a moment of pause.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35Wow.
0:27:35 > 0:27:39"The people you love become ghosts inside of you
0:27:39 > 0:27:42"and like this you keep them alive."
0:27:42 > 0:27:45Yeah. It's a very personal piece, this one.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47I had this really close friend during art school called
0:27:47 > 0:27:51Sean Watson, and he got hit by a car on the Edgware Road,
0:27:51 > 0:27:53and died very suddenly in 2004.
0:27:53 > 0:27:55And it was the first sort of heartbreak of grief
0:27:55 > 0:27:57in my adult life, in a sense,
0:27:57 > 0:27:59and it affected me really badly.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02And then a few months into that, I had this dream where
0:28:02 > 0:28:05Sean was just there - he was alive and just around.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09And I woke up the next day happier than I'd gone to bed.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12And I thought, OK, this, maybe, is what ghosts are.
0:28:12 > 0:28:15Maybe ghosts are a positive thing.
0:28:16 > 0:28:20This very personal piece was always intended for public display,
0:28:20 > 0:28:24but the scale of its impact caught Robert by surprise.
0:28:26 > 0:28:29If you search "The People You Love", the title of the piece,
0:28:29 > 0:28:36and my name, you get 4.39 million results in 0.7 seconds.
0:28:36 > 0:28:40This is a tribute page to a guy called Chico S Las Mana.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43- "Always missed, always loved, type a message."- Wow.
0:28:43 > 0:28:46And that is how it is commonly used online. This was interesting.
0:28:46 > 0:28:50This is a South Korean rapper called Taeyang who saw it in
0:28:50 > 0:28:53a gallery in Paris, went home to Korea and just faked the whole thing
0:28:53 > 0:28:55and put it in his video, rapping in front of it.
0:28:55 > 0:28:57- He seems to have missed the point of it.- I'm not sure.
0:28:57 > 0:29:01He might get the point of it, but he certainly just made it on his own.
0:29:01 > 0:29:05- And then you start to see it appear as tattoos.- My gosh!
0:29:06 > 0:29:09- Sometimes... - All along the arm, there.
0:29:09 > 0:29:12And then this is a really beautiful one,
0:29:12 > 0:29:15cos it was a brother and sister who I think had lost their mum,
0:29:15 > 0:29:17and they wrote to ask if they could get tattoos of each other
0:29:17 > 0:29:22reading the text as a sound wave on each other's arms,
0:29:22 > 0:29:24as a sort of tribute to their mum, and that was lovely,
0:29:24 > 0:29:26cos that was them making their own art from it.
0:29:26 > 0:29:28- They reinvented it.- Yeah.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30It has, really, a life of its own.
0:29:30 > 0:29:32People have got to really like this piece
0:29:32 > 0:29:33to tattoo it onto their bodies.
0:29:33 > 0:29:37- I mean, that's pretty flattering. - It's really nice.
0:29:37 > 0:29:39I mean, the thing is, the point of art
0:29:39 > 0:29:40is to touch the hearts of strangers
0:29:40 > 0:29:43without the trouble of ever having to meet them.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46But if you can sort of touch their hearts from a distance,
0:29:46 > 0:29:48and help a little bit,
0:29:48 > 0:29:51you know, from your quiet studio, then it's very nice.
0:29:55 > 0:29:56It's moving.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58Very moving.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01Makes you think of the wartime, I think.
0:30:04 > 0:30:06All the memories. All what's happened along here.
0:30:11 > 0:30:13We just came by the pub for a pint and saw it,
0:30:13 > 0:30:17and it's just like amazing and stopped us in our tracks a bit.
0:30:17 > 0:30:20I think against this dramatic sky tonight as well,
0:30:20 > 0:30:22it just really stood out.
0:30:22 > 0:30:23Perfect backdrop.
0:30:24 > 0:30:27- I mean, for me, I think about relationships lost.- Yeah.
0:30:27 > 0:30:30Especially cos I'm not actually from London and I'm kind of like...
0:30:30 > 0:30:33I left those behind. And then here I am.
0:30:39 > 0:30:42The statement is kind of poignant for us at the moment because
0:30:42 > 0:30:46we have poorly relatives, and a new life.
0:30:48 > 0:30:52I'm struggling to find the words. It's like a little discovery.
0:30:54 > 0:30:59Robert's words aren't exercises in empty semantics.
0:30:59 > 0:31:02They are big, bold, out in the real world.
0:31:02 > 0:31:05Hungry for our attention,
0:31:05 > 0:31:09and inviting us to stop, look, think and feel.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12And it reminds me of something Robert said.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14He said, "The great thing about words is they slow you down.
0:31:14 > 0:31:17"They slow you down as you read them."
0:31:17 > 0:31:19And that's what this piece has done.
0:31:19 > 0:31:24It has encouraged people to briefly put their lives on hold,
0:31:24 > 0:31:27and reflect on something really rather lovely.
0:31:29 > 0:31:33I must say, I'm beginning to change my mind about conceptual art.
0:31:35 > 0:31:39Maybe it isn't as pretentious and elitist as I once feared.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42Perhaps all we need to do is give it a chance.
0:31:46 > 0:31:50However, there is one facet of conceptual art that still
0:31:50 > 0:31:55scares us, and shows little sign of being accepted by the public.
0:31:56 > 0:32:00It's often known as - gulp - performance art.
0:32:04 > 0:32:08Of course, art and the body have a long and healthy history.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12Detailed study of human anatomy and appearance formed the
0:32:12 > 0:32:15backbone of thousands of years of artistic output.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21But the body's full potential was yet to be unleashed.
0:32:24 > 0:32:26Art isn't simply about making things,
0:32:26 > 0:32:28it can also be about doing things.
0:32:30 > 0:32:31And from the 1960s onwards,
0:32:31 > 0:32:36a number of conceptual artists embarked on a spate of acts,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39performances and stunts, and put their own bodies centre stage.
0:32:44 > 0:32:49In New York, artist Vito Acconci spent a month following strangers
0:32:49 > 0:32:50through the city's streets...
0:32:51 > 0:32:54..for minutes and sometimes hours at a time...
0:32:56 > 0:32:59..until he could no longer track them.
0:33:01 > 0:33:06A relatively unknown Japanese artist called Yoko Ono sat alone
0:33:06 > 0:33:10and impassive onstage while her audience were invited to
0:33:10 > 0:33:12come up and cut away her clothes.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21And in London, an irreverent performance by a young man
0:33:21 > 0:33:25called Bruce McLean attempted to redefine the nature of sculpture.
0:33:35 > 0:33:36So, what was going on?
0:33:39 > 0:33:43Well, fortunately, Bruce McLean is still very much active and has
0:33:43 > 0:33:47suggested revisiting this pivotal moment of conceptualism with me.
0:33:49 > 0:33:54- Bruce. Hi.- Good morning, nice to see you.- You too.- All right?
0:33:54 > 0:33:56- What is this you are doing?- Sorry?
0:33:56 > 0:33:57What are you doing, are these poses?
0:33:57 > 0:34:01No, I'm just moving around the plinth a little bit. Limbering up.
0:34:04 > 0:34:07- So, what we've got here, these are three plinths...- Yes.
0:34:07 > 0:34:12Three different heights, just about. What are they all about?
0:34:12 > 0:34:15I was hoping you weren't going to ask me that question, funnily enough.
0:34:15 > 0:34:19In 1971 I borrowed 50 plinths from the Tate for an installation
0:34:19 > 0:34:22- called Objects No Concepts... - No Concepts.
0:34:22 > 0:34:25..as opposed to Concepts No Objects.
0:34:25 > 0:34:26And three somehow got left.
0:34:26 > 0:34:30And I thought, "What can I do with these, then? They seem to require some sort of sculpture."
0:34:30 > 0:34:33So I started to play with them, cos I like playing.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35I think it's quite constructive.
0:34:35 > 0:34:37And I thought I could be the sculpture on these plinths,
0:34:37 > 0:34:40and I could let these plinths determine what I did with my
0:34:40 > 0:34:44very nimble and athletic dancer-esque body that I had at that point in time.
0:34:44 > 0:34:46So, I just kind of got on them.
0:34:46 > 0:34:49This was more than just a series of self portraits,
0:34:49 > 0:34:52here the artist BECAME the art.
0:34:52 > 0:34:54And I thought, that's quite a good...
0:34:58 > 0:35:01I moved and I held it for a bit, then I moved and held it for a bit.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04Did it for about an hour, I think.
0:35:04 > 0:35:07And then somebody said, "Why don't we photograph that?"
0:35:11 > 0:35:13I can't get up there any more.
0:35:13 > 0:35:16- I could help bring your leg up. - No, thanks.
0:35:16 > 0:35:18No leg cocking in this film.
0:35:20 > 0:35:22What I like about it is you've got the plinths,
0:35:22 > 0:35:25this black and white photograph, feels very formal,
0:35:25 > 0:35:28- and at the same time it's you subverting a tradition. - Yeah. Trying to.
0:35:28 > 0:35:30And having a bit of a laugh.
0:35:30 > 0:35:35I wasn't doing it as a laugh, and I wasn't doing it as a "Ooh..."
0:35:35 > 0:35:36solemn work.
0:35:36 > 0:35:40I thought, well, let's look of these cliches and take them apart a bit.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43When I look at something I don't understand, I'm interested.
0:35:43 > 0:35:48And where did you get the idea of making your body part of the sculpture itself?
0:35:48 > 0:35:50I liked the idea that you can use your body,
0:35:50 > 0:35:52so you don't have to buy any material.
0:35:52 > 0:35:53You don't need a bit of wood,
0:35:53 > 0:35:55you don't need glue, paint, anything.
0:35:55 > 0:35:58You can make something up as you go along, with nothing.
0:35:58 > 0:36:04And it was a time of the student revolution coming from France,
0:36:04 > 0:36:08and the whole mood of the time was about a global mood, a global feeling.
0:36:08 > 0:36:10Young people thinking, exchanging ideas,
0:36:10 > 0:36:14being part of what became known as conceptual art.
0:36:14 > 0:36:19People didn't want to make stuff with stuff for people to consume.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21We are all anti-consumerism.
0:36:21 > 0:36:24We were there to question the nature of sculpture.
0:36:25 > 0:36:30While Bruce McLean played with the idea of ephemeral human sculpture...
0:36:32 > 0:36:39..others were busy transforming their whole lives into allegorical artworks.
0:36:39 > 0:36:42The most mercurial of them was a hugely influential German artist
0:36:42 > 0:36:44called Joseph Beuys.
0:36:46 > 0:36:51In 1974, Beuys flew into New York's JFK airport.
0:36:51 > 0:36:54He was covered in a layer of felt, loaded onto a stretcher,
0:36:54 > 0:36:59and taken by ambulance to a West Broadway gallery.
0:36:59 > 0:37:02SIREN
0:37:04 > 0:37:07It was all part of an elaborate performance piece called
0:37:07 > 0:37:10I Like America And America Likes Me
0:37:10 > 0:37:15in which Beuys was to share a room with a wild coyote
0:37:15 > 0:37:18for three whole days.
0:37:18 > 0:37:20TRIANGLE CHIMES
0:37:23 > 0:37:26Confused? You should be.
0:37:26 > 0:37:30Beuys once declared that art is not there to be simply understood,
0:37:30 > 0:37:32or we would have no need for it.
0:37:34 > 0:37:39Understandably, the coyote was also somewhat mystified,
0:37:39 > 0:37:41and fairly angry, to begin with.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46But over time, the animal appeared to grow tolerant,
0:37:46 > 0:37:50even accepting of the eccentric artist,
0:37:50 > 0:37:53and by the end, they had formed something of a friendship.
0:37:55 > 0:37:59So was it just a stunt, or was there method in the madness?
0:38:01 > 0:38:05I see Beuys' performance as a strange but powerful allegory
0:38:05 > 0:38:09about peace, tolerance and respect for nature.
0:38:10 > 0:38:13This was what Beuys called social sculpture -
0:38:13 > 0:38:16an art form that turned life into art
0:38:16 > 0:38:19in order to change both politics and society.
0:38:22 > 0:38:25Elsewhere conceptual artists took a more direct approach...
0:38:27 > 0:38:32..and distributed their political messages by any means necessary.
0:38:37 > 0:38:42In Brazil, a young artist devised an ingenious plan to combat
0:38:42 > 0:38:45his country's oppressive US-backed military dictatorship...
0:38:46 > 0:38:49..not with coyotes, but Coke bottles.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02Cildo Meireles began by purchasing a number of Coca-Cola bottles,
0:39:02 > 0:39:06and then he made some careful modifications.
0:39:06 > 0:39:10The bottle in the foreground reads "Yankees go home".
0:39:10 > 0:39:15And the one in the middle has the recipe for a Molotov cocktail.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21Crucially, when Meireles had made his modifications,
0:39:21 > 0:39:25he then sent these bottles back out into circulation, where they
0:39:25 > 0:39:28were purchased in shops and drunk by the public.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32Meireles considered this to be an act of guerrilla warfare against
0:39:32 > 0:39:35capitalism, against censorship, against dictatorship.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38And he was fighting his foes with conceptual art.
0:39:42 > 0:39:47Meireles's work again shows that conceptual art takes many different forms -
0:39:47 > 0:39:51objects, words, bodies, actions,
0:39:51 > 0:39:52even fizzy drinks.
0:39:56 > 0:40:02But in the 1970s, artists found a new medium to exploit -
0:40:02 > 0:40:04the media itself.
0:40:04 > 0:40:08'I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Chris Burden.
0:40:08 > 0:40:13'And today, on this tape, I'm going to show you
0:40:13 > 0:40:18'excerpts or visual records from 11 different pieces that I've done,
0:40:18 > 0:40:23'starting in 1971, into 1974.'
0:40:23 > 0:40:28Chris Burden pushed himself to the limits in the name of art.
0:40:28 > 0:40:30From balancing above electrified water
0:40:30 > 0:40:34to being shot with a .22 calibre rifle.
0:40:34 > 0:40:35GUNSHOT
0:40:36 > 0:40:42Here was a man intent on exploring what both artist and audience could endure.
0:40:42 > 0:40:44'Holding my hands behind my back,
0:40:44 > 0:40:47'I crawled through about 50 feet of glass.
0:40:47 > 0:40:51'Very few spectators saw this piece, most of them just passers-by.'
0:41:05 > 0:41:07Strange, this piece.
0:41:07 > 0:41:09It's almost unwatchable,
0:41:09 > 0:41:12but at the same time, you can't stop watching it.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14At least, I can't.
0:41:15 > 0:41:20There is something horribly gripping about observing another person suffering.
0:41:20 > 0:41:23That, I think, was the point.
0:41:23 > 0:41:27This piece was made during the Vietnam War,
0:41:27 > 0:41:29and it was all about people, Americans,
0:41:29 > 0:41:34becoming increasingly desensitised to images of death and violence
0:41:34 > 0:41:37that they were seeing in the media.
0:41:39 > 0:41:44Burden realised that the very same media could potentially be infiltrated
0:41:44 > 0:41:48to shock and confuse his fellow Americans,
0:41:48 > 0:41:51and that television held the biggest captive audience.
0:41:53 > 0:41:57So, in a separate artistic act he created a series of
0:41:57 > 0:42:03guerrilla TV adverts to be broadcast almost subliminally amid the normal schedule.
0:42:04 > 0:42:10'Raico presents Good Vibrations - 22 original hits with the Hollies...'
0:42:10 > 0:42:15- BURDEN:- 'What you've been watching is the advertisement that actually precedes mine.'
0:42:26 > 0:42:30'Well, that was it. You saw how short it was.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33'I didn't have any illusions that people understood this.
0:42:33 > 0:42:35'But I know it stuck out like a sore thumb,
0:42:35 > 0:42:40'and that I had the satisfaction of knowing that 250,000 people
0:42:40 > 0:42:44'saw it every night, and that it was disturbing to them.'
0:42:44 > 0:42:46In a conceptual masterstroke,
0:42:46 > 0:42:51the artist had hijacked the medium of TV, along with its audience.
0:42:51 > 0:42:56To think that Burden actually bought air time and sent his commercials
0:42:56 > 0:43:01into the homes of hundreds of thousands of unsuspecting people -
0:43:01 > 0:43:03it was utterly audacious.
0:43:12 > 0:43:16Artists like Chris Burden blazed an edgy, provocative trail in
0:43:16 > 0:43:20the relationship between conceptual artists and the mass media.
0:43:20 > 0:43:24But they also reconnected with the creative potential of the prank.
0:43:27 > 0:43:31Christian Jankowski is a German artist who has spent
0:43:31 > 0:43:36the last 25 years masterminding a whole range of media pranks
0:43:36 > 0:43:39that often rely on innocent collaborators.
0:43:41 > 0:43:44He spoofed Supermarket Sweep-style daytime TV...
0:43:49 > 0:43:53..persuaded a team of high-ranking Vatican officials to cast
0:43:53 > 0:43:55Jesus in a talent show contest...
0:43:59 > 0:44:03..and got Polish weightlifters to lift public sculptures in Warsaw
0:44:03 > 0:44:05for a mock TV sports show.
0:44:18 > 0:44:22Christian has agreed to meet me at his Berlin studio,
0:44:22 > 0:44:25but I have to admit that, what with his track record,
0:44:25 > 0:44:27I'm feeling a little bit nervous.
0:44:28 > 0:44:31I've been told to just go with the flow
0:44:31 > 0:44:34and enjoy the experience, whatever happens.
0:44:38 > 0:44:42- Christian!- Hi, James.- Very good to meet you.- Good to meet you, too.
0:44:42 > 0:44:44- Thanks for having me.- Come on in.
0:44:44 > 0:44:47- You've got a really lovely studio here.- Thank you.
0:44:47 > 0:44:52- This is all yours?- Yeah. We can go over there, or over there.
0:44:52 > 0:44:54Over here. Great.
0:44:57 > 0:45:00Do you like to shock people, Christian?
0:45:01 > 0:45:04Yes and no. I mean, shock for the shock's sake, no.
0:45:04 > 0:45:07I'm interested in images
0:45:07 > 0:45:12and I'm interested in seeing images I have not exactly seen before.
0:45:12 > 0:45:14I was born in the '60s.
0:45:14 > 0:45:17I didn't grow up looking at an oil painting,
0:45:17 > 0:45:20I grew up looking at the television set.
0:45:21 > 0:45:24Doesn't mean I'm not into paintings, I love paintings, too.
0:45:24 > 0:45:28I love all kinds of media, but I'm very much, my thinking,
0:45:28 > 0:45:31has been informed a lot by television.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34And one of the most successful TV formats of the last ten years,
0:45:34 > 0:45:36I suppose, has been the talent show.
0:45:36 > 0:45:40And the piece I'm thinking about of yours that relates to that is Casting Jesus.
0:45:40 > 0:45:43Can you tell me a little bit about how that concept,
0:45:43 > 0:45:45- how that idea came about?- Yeah.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47I was in Rome,
0:45:47 > 0:45:52and then I thought in Italy about all of these different artists
0:45:52 > 0:45:57over the centuries that needed models to, you know, act as Jesus.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01Because Jesus had to be refreshed from century to century to
0:46:01 > 0:46:03really reach the audience.
0:46:04 > 0:46:08And I thought, what are really strong formats of our days?
0:46:08 > 0:46:11And I thought, the casting show is a great format to bring
0:46:11 > 0:46:15real Vatican priests on board and be the jury.
0:46:18 > 0:46:22And have casting agency to send you different Roman actors that
0:46:22 > 0:46:23could act in the Jesus role,
0:46:23 > 0:46:27and so they were in competition with each other,
0:46:27 > 0:46:30in front of these priests that had to, you know,
0:46:30 > 0:46:32look for the perfect Christ.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02Are you trying to make people laugh?
0:47:02 > 0:47:05Is that an important strategy of years?
0:47:05 > 0:47:07I think there is something quite,
0:47:07 > 0:47:11quite anarchistic with humour because you can express feelings,
0:47:11 > 0:47:15you can express opinions with it, but not in the teacherly way
0:47:15 > 0:47:18of saying, "This is bad and this is good,"
0:47:18 > 0:47:19it's a different style.
0:47:19 > 0:47:25For Christian, all media formats are potential conceptual playgrounds.
0:47:25 > 0:47:29- 'This is Christian, he is from Germany.'- 'Hello.'
0:47:29 > 0:47:33'We are talking about artistry, we are talking about how God...'
0:47:33 > 0:47:35Be they Texan televangelism...
0:47:35 > 0:47:37'And so he shared something with me which is a point...'
0:47:37 > 0:47:40- 'Hello, Peter.' - 'Hey, it's good to see you.'
0:47:41 > 0:47:43..pop video piss-takes...
0:47:49 > 0:47:52Can I start the bidding here at 300 Euro for this?
0:47:52 > 0:47:55..or vehicles to satirise the art market.
0:47:55 > 0:47:59- 1,200. Very popular, it is. - LAUGHTER
0:47:59 > 0:48:02- 1,200 Euro, now. 2,200 Euro. - GAVEL FALLS
0:48:03 > 0:48:06And whether his collaborators are in on the joke or not,
0:48:06 > 0:48:08without them, there'd be no artworks.
0:48:11 > 0:48:13You bring lots of people together in your work, don't you?
0:48:13 > 0:48:16It's not just about you doing something on your own,
0:48:16 > 0:48:17the audience participate,
0:48:17 > 0:48:21you get strangers and people in the street and weightlifters,
0:48:21 > 0:48:25everyone is participating. It is a real group enterprise, isn't it?
0:48:25 > 0:48:28Yes, because that is where I find the unexpected.
0:48:28 > 0:48:32For me, if you call people the medium or the material you work with,
0:48:32 > 0:48:34it sounds a little bit sick.
0:48:34 > 0:48:37I am not saying you are a paintbrush right now,
0:48:37 > 0:48:39but you are also a medium.
0:48:39 > 0:48:44Everybody I drag into my pieces from this world outside of the art,
0:48:44 > 0:48:48may it be sportsmen, may it be anchormen, you know,
0:48:48 > 0:48:51they all bring a new perspective.
0:48:51 > 0:48:56Art at the end of the day is about reaching to a new perspective.
0:48:56 > 0:49:00So, Christian, to deal with the elephant in the room, so to speak,
0:49:00 > 0:49:05I can't help noticing you're naked and have been naked throughout this interview.
0:49:05 > 0:49:07Can you tell me why?
0:49:10 > 0:49:14Don't you see why? It's quite nice, no?
0:49:14 > 0:49:19I just thought, what can I add to a situation like this?
0:49:19 > 0:49:22How can we have a little bit fun creating images that are out
0:49:22 > 0:49:26in the mass media? If I would zap to a programme like this,
0:49:26 > 0:49:28I would think, "Hey, what are they doing there?"
0:49:28 > 0:49:29And it's very conceptual,
0:49:29 > 0:49:32or maybe it also is I have nothing to hide.
0:49:32 > 0:49:34I'm just telling you what I think about conceptual art,
0:49:34 > 0:49:37it might not make you the most happy, but maybe it does.
0:49:37 > 0:49:41- Who knows?- Well, you have certainly made me feel overdressed.
0:49:42 > 0:49:44You make me feel underdressed.
0:49:53 > 0:49:57Well, that was one of the more surreal experiences I've ever had.
0:49:57 > 0:49:59I've interviewed a lot of artists over my time,
0:49:59 > 0:50:01but I've never interviewed a naked one.
0:50:01 > 0:50:04But I really actually enjoyed meeting Christian,
0:50:04 > 0:50:09and he was one of the artists I thought I was going to struggle with the most.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12I really thought of him as a prankster,
0:50:12 > 0:50:15but he clearly is a very, very intelligent, thoughtful man
0:50:15 > 0:50:18who uses humour and uses the media to ask really
0:50:18 > 0:50:21profound questions about the society which we are living in.
0:50:23 > 0:50:27I have to confess, I've grown to rather like conceptual art
0:50:27 > 0:50:31because in the hundred years since Marcel Duchamp's urinal,
0:50:31 > 0:50:34conceptual artists have achieved a lot -
0:50:34 > 0:50:39they have made us laugh, think, and feel,
0:50:39 > 0:50:41they have redefined art and beauty...
0:50:43 > 0:50:45..they have taken bold political stances...
0:50:47 > 0:50:50..and they've tried to make the world a more unpredictable and
0:50:50 > 0:50:51imaginative place.
0:50:56 > 0:51:00But to really understand how far conceptual art has come today,
0:51:00 > 0:51:04we must delve deep into the final frontier.
0:51:07 > 0:51:11Katie Paterson is one of the most exciting talents of my generation,
0:51:11 > 0:51:15and for a few years now she has been boldly going
0:51:15 > 0:51:17where no conceptual artist has gone before.
0:51:20 > 0:51:26She's melted down and recast a 4.5 billion-year-old meteorite,
0:51:26 > 0:51:28before sending it back into space.
0:51:30 > 0:51:34She's mapped all the dead stars we know of in the universe -
0:51:34 > 0:51:3627,000, apparently.
0:51:37 > 0:51:40And she's even made music with celestial objects.
0:51:41 > 0:51:44PIANO PLAYS
0:51:56 > 0:51:59This is one of Katie Paterson's most famous works.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02You may recognise the music as Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.
0:52:02 > 0:52:04But let's have a closer listen.
0:52:08 > 0:52:16MUSIC: MOONLIGHT SONATA, WITH SOME NOTES OMITTED
0:52:20 > 0:52:24Now, you might have noticed that this rendition is actually missing a few notes.
0:52:24 > 0:52:26But you won't believe why.
0:52:26 > 0:52:30Because what Katie Paterson has done is taken a score of
0:52:30 > 0:52:33the Moonlight Sonata, converted it into Morse code,
0:52:33 > 0:52:36and sent it by radio transmission all the way to the surface of the moon,
0:52:36 > 0:52:40and then bounced it back into this room, and into this piano.
0:52:44 > 0:52:46So, where have the missing notes gone?
0:52:46 > 0:52:49Well, they have actually been lost in the valleys, the craters,
0:52:49 > 0:52:52the shadows of the lunar surface.
0:52:52 > 0:52:57So, in many ways, this is the Moonlight Sonata remade by the moon itself.
0:53:02 > 0:53:05In the same way that Duchamp's Fountain was just a urinal,
0:53:05 > 0:53:09this is just an everyday piano plonked inside a gallery,
0:53:09 > 0:53:12but it's been transformed by an extraordinary idea.
0:53:17 > 0:53:21My final stop on this conceptual journey is to try and discover
0:53:21 > 0:53:23where these cosmic brainwaves come from,
0:53:23 > 0:53:27and to see what else Paterson has been dreaming up.
0:53:28 > 0:53:31So, what have we got here, then, Katie?
0:53:31 > 0:53:36We have got a number of different samples and bits and pieces from the
0:53:36 > 0:53:39different artworks that I've been working on for the last few years.
0:53:39 > 0:53:43This is a candle that smells of outer space.
0:53:43 > 0:53:46I didn't think outer space had a smell.
0:53:46 > 0:53:51It has a lot of smells, it turns out. It is quite a scented place.
0:53:51 > 0:53:53Here's the sun, what does the sun smell of? Welding fumes.
0:53:53 > 0:53:57- Actually, that doesn't seem so surprising.- Lots of hot metal.
0:53:57 > 0:54:01I like that idea that Mars smells of an old penny.
0:54:01 > 0:54:05Some of the scents have come from astronauts' clothing that
0:54:05 > 0:54:08has been analysed, like the scent of the moon.
0:54:08 > 0:54:13I worked with a biochemist to develop these very particular perfumes.
0:54:13 > 0:54:15That's just amazing. I'm looking -
0:54:15 > 0:54:18burnt almond cookies, the smell of the moon.
0:54:18 > 0:54:22How do you come up with an idea like that, the idea of, you know,
0:54:22 > 0:54:25"What does the universe smell like? Yeah, let's turn it into a candle."
0:54:25 > 0:54:26That's just an amazing idea.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29Where are those concepts coming from?
0:54:29 > 0:54:31Oh, my goodness, where do the concepts come from?
0:54:31 > 0:54:35I still surprise myself with where the concepts come from.
0:54:35 > 0:54:39I was thinking as if you are taking a journey through space and
0:54:39 > 0:54:42through time, and how to translate the smell of a journey into
0:54:42 > 0:54:45a physical thing, and that became a candle.
0:54:46 > 0:54:51What is it that inspires you as an artist? What kind of things get you going?
0:54:51 > 0:54:53It's almost everything.
0:54:53 > 0:54:56Nature and geology and geography.
0:54:56 > 0:55:00The planet and the wider universe. It's pretty wide!
0:55:00 > 0:55:02What are these, then?
0:55:02 > 0:55:05This is from a series called History Of Darkness,
0:55:05 > 0:55:09and I've been taking images of nothing, effectively,
0:55:09 > 0:55:12of dark spaces, from throughout the universe.
0:55:12 > 0:55:14So these are slides. Right.
0:55:14 > 0:55:16They are slides, and they are all just black.
0:55:16 > 0:55:20But they are from multiple places in the universe
0:55:20 > 0:55:22that span billions of years.
0:55:22 > 0:55:26- So what is that saying?- That is the distance from Earth in light years.
0:55:26 > 0:55:32- Which is four billion... - Four billion... - ..239,108,820 light-years.
0:55:32 > 0:55:34Light-years from Earth. Exactly.
0:55:34 > 0:55:38I kind of like to think these spaces of emptiness could now be
0:55:38 > 0:55:40filled with life and other planets.
0:55:40 > 0:55:44It's so remarkable that in this little slide you've got
0:55:44 > 0:55:46- four billion light years.- Yeah.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49That's an amazing, awe-inspiring idea in its own right, isn't it?
0:55:49 > 0:55:52And one of the concerns a lot of people have about conceptual art,
0:55:52 > 0:55:56and I have to confess that I've had these concerns as well in the past,
0:55:56 > 0:56:00is that it's somehow easy, that anyone can do it,
0:56:00 > 0:56:03but looking at your work, I realise that it's completely the opposite,
0:56:03 > 0:56:06this is not easy at all, it's painstaking.
0:56:06 > 0:56:09My goodness. Yeah, it's not easy,
0:56:09 > 0:56:13because these ideas are kind of on the brink of the possible and the impossible.
0:56:13 > 0:56:17There's so many things that go on behind every single work,
0:56:17 > 0:56:21but ultimately I hope the audience make it come alive
0:56:21 > 0:56:24by activating that idea through their imagination.
0:56:28 > 0:56:32And that, dear viewer, is where YOU come in.
0:56:33 > 0:56:37Most conceptual art only comes to life when you are prepared to
0:56:37 > 0:56:39put in the work.
0:56:39 > 0:56:42Understanding often takes effort,
0:56:42 > 0:56:46but you can complete the circle of an artist's big idea.
0:56:48 > 0:56:51And here's one of Katie Paterson's biggest.
0:57:01 > 0:57:02Wow!
0:57:02 > 0:57:03It may only be a mirrorball,
0:57:03 > 0:57:06but it is like no mirrorball I've ever seen before.
0:57:08 > 0:57:13Katie Paterson has painstakingly compiled and arranged 10,000 images
0:57:13 > 0:57:15of solar eclipses,
0:57:15 > 0:57:21almost every one ever documented by humankind,
0:57:21 > 0:57:24and these transient spectral moments,
0:57:24 > 0:57:26brought together in this otherworldly object,
0:57:26 > 0:57:31have been granted new life as they scatter and dance all around me.
0:57:34 > 0:57:37It feels like I've stepped out of the solar system,
0:57:37 > 0:57:39out of time and space,
0:57:39 > 0:57:43and I'm staring back at the entire universe from a great distance.
0:57:49 > 0:57:53This is conceptual art, all right, but what's there not to like?
0:57:53 > 0:57:57It's intelligent and beautiful and hugely ambitious.
0:57:59 > 0:58:03Conceptual art is above all about ideas.
0:58:03 > 0:58:06Now, as we've seen, those ideas can come in many different shapes and sizes,
0:58:06 > 0:58:11but Katie Paterson deals with the biggest ideas imaginable.
0:58:11 > 0:58:14Space, time, the cosmos.
0:58:14 > 0:58:17Those ideas are relevant to each and everyone of us,
0:58:17 > 0:58:21because they help define our place in the universe.
0:58:23 > 0:58:27So, let's stop being scared of conceptual art,
0:58:27 > 0:58:31because art without ideas is just decoration, isn't it?
0:58:31 > 0:58:33# Fly
0:58:36 > 0:58:39# Fly me to the Moon
0:58:42 > 0:58:47# And let me play among the stars
0:58:50 > 0:58:56# Let me see Oh, I wanna see what spring is like
0:58:59 > 0:59:02# On Jupiter... #