0:00:02 > 0:00:07This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11Martin Scorsese...
0:00:11 > 0:00:14is one of the world's most acclaimed film-makers.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18His career spans half a century.
0:00:18 > 0:00:20He's making a rare UK appearance
0:00:20 > 0:00:23at the British Film Institute in London,
0:00:23 > 0:00:27where a major retrospective of his films is under way
0:00:27 > 0:00:30and a career summary interview will take place.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44As the editor of the BFI magazine Sight & Sound,
0:00:44 > 0:00:47I'm thrilled to be the one interviewing this giant
0:00:47 > 0:00:53of contemporary cinema before a packed house tonight.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57Dozens of fans waiting for hours are hoping to get the autograph
0:00:57 > 0:00:59of this film legend.
0:01:00 > 0:01:04Spellbinding films by Martin Scorsese
0:01:04 > 0:01:06typically have a central character
0:01:06 > 0:01:10haunted by a deep, personal or spiritual conflict.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14His movies have left an indelible mark
0:01:14 > 0:01:17on the collective consciousness of modern culture.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38Martin, you know Stuart, don't you?
0:01:38 > 0:01:40Hello, Stuart, hi, how are you?
0:01:40 > 0:01:42Great to see you again. Welcome, welcome.
0:01:44 > 0:01:46Oh, it's the kitchen, very nice.
0:01:46 > 0:01:47Hello. Wow.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53I've actually seen a lot of kitchens over the years.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55A lot of kitchens.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59'As a kid with asthma growing up in Little Italy, New York City,
0:01:59 > 0:02:04'he lived and breathed cinema from an early age.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09'Scorsese completed his first feature film
0:02:09 > 0:02:12'at the age of 25 in 1968.
0:02:15 > 0:02:21'Between features, documentaries, music videos and TV programmes,
0:02:21 > 0:02:24'he has about 60 directing credits.'
0:02:24 > 0:02:27This is the clandestine way of getting in?
0:02:27 > 0:02:29It is a clandestine way of getting in.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31- They'll never know. - You'll never know.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33Be careful of these stairs.
0:02:33 > 0:02:35'Martin Scorsese has long known how to hustle
0:02:35 > 0:02:37'with the Hollywood studio system.
0:02:37 > 0:02:41'He can deliver the big box office hit that studios crave
0:02:41 > 0:02:45'to gain studio backing for a high-risk,
0:02:45 > 0:02:47'personal passion project.'
0:02:47 > 0:02:49- Let me introduce you to Michelle. - Hi.- Hi, Michelle, hi.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52- It's so great to meet you. - Nice to meet you. Nice meeting you.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55- Be careful of the stairs. - Oh, wow, this is a great hallway.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57Nice and narrow.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01Here we go, it's the bowels of the BFI.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03- Yes. Here we are.- Inside.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19Scorsese brings an encyclopaedic knowledge of movie history
0:03:19 > 0:03:21to his film-making palette,
0:03:21 > 0:03:24which he uses with virtuoso skill
0:03:24 > 0:03:30to seduce, shock, dazzle and transport his audience.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44APPLAUSE AND CHEERING
0:03:59 > 0:04:00Thank you.
0:04:01 > 0:04:02Thank you, thank you.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05Thank you, thank you.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09Welcome, everybody, welcome to this amazing evening.
0:04:09 > 0:04:11- That was quite a walk. - You've just come off this amazing,
0:04:11 > 0:04:16exhausting publicity tour for Silence...
0:04:16 > 0:04:19a film about Jesuit priests in the 17th century
0:04:19 > 0:04:23going to Japan to help out oppressed Christians.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27- Well, that's the plot. - That's the plot.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29But it took 30 years for you to get that made.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32- Yes, yeah, yeah.- And you've had other films like that,
0:04:32 > 0:04:34like The Last Temptation Of Christ.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36They take time, I think, in terms of...
0:04:36 > 0:04:38in terms of Silence, it took many years,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41because I knew I wanted to make the film of this,
0:04:41 > 0:04:46but...the last 20 or 30 pages of the book,
0:04:46 > 0:04:48I just didn't know how to approach it.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51I knew I wanted to make it, but I didn't know how
0:04:51 > 0:04:53and I knew why, but I couldn't say it.
0:04:57 > 0:04:59SHOUTS IN OWN LANGUAGE
0:04:59 > 0:05:01SHOUTS IN OWN LANGUAGE
0:05:01 > 0:05:03I immediately tried to write the script with Jay Cox
0:05:03 > 0:05:05and it wasn't very good.
0:05:07 > 0:05:09The problem was, ultimately...
0:05:10 > 0:05:12I went off in different directions,
0:05:12 > 0:05:14I was able to get Gangs Of New York made
0:05:14 > 0:05:17and immediately after Gangs Of New York,
0:05:17 > 0:05:20I wanted to make Silence, I still didn't have the script.
0:05:20 > 0:05:24And so what I'm trying to get... to answer you, is that
0:05:24 > 0:05:26whenever I was told by my managers, my agents,
0:05:26 > 0:05:29"This is insane, this project has gone on for years.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31"There are so many legal problems there.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34"One of the producers, unfortunately, is in jail.
0:05:34 > 0:05:38It goes... "This is like the Gordian knot,
0:05:38 > 0:05:40"the money has been put up against it, so don't do it."
0:05:40 > 0:05:43And I said, "No, no, no, I want to hold on to it,
0:05:43 > 0:05:47"I want to hold on to it." And so, whenever circumstances allowed,
0:05:47 > 0:05:49I should be able to make this picture.
0:05:52 > 0:05:54'May 25th 1640.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57'Pax Christi. God be praised.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01'Father Valignano, as I begin these lines, I cannot be sure
0:06:01 > 0:06:03'that when they are done they will ever reach you.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07'But I want to maintain your confidence in our mission
0:06:07 > 0:06:09'and vindicate your faith in us.'
0:06:09 > 0:06:11Careful.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14Ultimately, it was independently financed.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17The budget was 22 million below the line,
0:06:17 > 0:06:23which is pretty low for the kind of films I was making at the time.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25Yeah, but you had to raise that kind of money
0:06:25 > 0:06:28- and that's one of the things... - We had to go to Cannes to raise it.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30I stayed in a room for two days and nights
0:06:30 > 0:06:32and people came in and I talked.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34LAUGHTER
0:06:34 > 0:06:38- And what's your success rate? - We had a pretty good success rate.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41It was IM Global... Is that it?
0:06:41 > 0:06:42Yeah, they put it together
0:06:42 > 0:06:45and we just talked and the next thing I know
0:06:45 > 0:06:46I was in somebody's yacht,
0:06:46 > 0:06:50next thing I know we're in some mansion somewhere at night.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54And there was... Baz Luhrmann was there,
0:06:54 > 0:06:57I had no... I can't tell you what was happening!
0:06:57 > 0:07:02It's that thing of how you manage to persuade the money men each time.
0:07:02 > 0:07:04I wouldn't stop, I just wouldn't stop,
0:07:04 > 0:07:06I'd keep complaining and arguing.
0:07:06 > 0:07:11And, yeah, sometimes behaving badly,
0:07:11 > 0:07:14um...temperamentally at times
0:07:14 > 0:07:17And not answering the phone until I get an agreement
0:07:17 > 0:07:21of some kind, at least an agreement to proceed.
0:07:23 > 0:07:24Lost to God.
0:07:31 > 0:07:37But as to that, indeed, only God can answer.
0:07:41 > 0:07:44Was there a particular moment in your very early career,
0:07:44 > 0:07:47your early days when you were first making your films,
0:07:47 > 0:07:50where you felt that you had found, like, you know,
0:07:50 > 0:07:53writers always talk about finding their voice.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55I think in terms of my own voice
0:07:55 > 0:07:58I tried to with Who's That Knocking At My Door.
0:08:09 > 0:08:14Eventually, it was developed in Mean Streets, really,
0:08:14 > 0:08:16and that's what I felt was...
0:08:16 > 0:08:18I felt comfortable, at home, yeah.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22'I mean, if I do something wrong, I just want to pay for it my way.
0:08:22 > 0:08:25'So I do my own penance for my own sins.
0:08:25 > 0:08:27'What do ya say, huh?
0:08:27 > 0:08:29'That it's all bullshit except the pain, right?
0:08:29 > 0:08:31'The pain of hell.
0:08:31 > 0:08:35'The burn from a lighted match increased a million times.
0:08:35 > 0:08:36'Infinite.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39'Now, you don't fuck around with the infinite.
0:08:39 > 0:08:41'There's no way you do that.'
0:08:41 > 0:08:43I mean, it goes back to being involved very seriously
0:08:43 > 0:08:47in Roman Catholicism and that became very influential.
0:08:47 > 0:08:49Let's go back a little bit further than that.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51I'm particularly interested
0:08:51 > 0:08:54in whether there was a very first film that you saw,
0:08:54 > 0:08:57what was the most kind of important film?
0:08:57 > 0:08:59The first films I saw were in theatres.
0:08:59 > 0:09:03I was born in '42, so contracted the asthma
0:09:03 > 0:09:06at the age of three and so they couldn't do anything
0:09:06 > 0:09:10with me and said playing and running and that sort of thing,
0:09:10 > 0:09:13not laughing a lot, because you get spasms and the kid starts coughing.
0:09:13 > 0:09:16So they'd take me to the movie theatre and I saw these films.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19Duel In The Sun was the first I remember seeing.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26It was a western, there's no doubt,
0:09:26 > 0:09:29and the open, vast spaces that King Vidor shot,
0:09:29 > 0:09:31and some of the other guys too who also shot it,
0:09:31 > 0:09:32was just extraordinary.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37I aim to defend Spanish Bit with lead.
0:09:37 > 0:09:42Now, if there's any yellow-bellies among you, get out now.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45My mother took me to see it because she said, "He likes westerns."
0:09:45 > 0:09:47And, actually, it was condemned by the church,
0:09:47 > 0:09:49so she used it as an excuse.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53The vibrancy of the colour and the music
0:09:53 > 0:09:57and the intensity of the kind of baroque...
0:09:59 > 0:10:04..erotic behaviour, I should say, of the leads.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08It was so strange, so strange.
0:10:08 > 0:10:10I was six, I guess.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13THUNDER RUMBLES
0:10:13 > 0:10:16People take their kids to see Psycho at six or something, I don't know.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19And then, from then on, I just remembered everything
0:10:19 > 0:10:22from all the Hitchcock films we saw as they came up.
0:10:22 > 0:10:24At the same time, there's been a split
0:10:24 > 0:10:26and that was when I was five years old
0:10:26 > 0:10:29that I saw, on television were the Rossellini films -
0:10:29 > 0:10:32Paisa and Open City.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34Mama! Mama!
0:10:36 > 0:10:39And De Sica's Bicycle Thieves.
0:10:44 > 0:10:46The other night, actually,
0:10:46 > 0:10:48I went to see Richard III at the Barbican...
0:10:48 > 0:10:49Oh, we restored that, yeah.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52And, do you know... I mean, not the film, but an actual stage play.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55- Oh, sorry. - LAUGHTER
0:10:55 > 0:10:57I forgot where I was, I'm sorry!
0:10:57 > 0:10:59LAUGHTER
0:10:59 > 0:11:02..where the actor did a really fantastic job
0:11:02 > 0:11:04of making us empathise with a psychopath.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08You yourself have also managed to put us, as an audience,
0:11:08 > 0:11:12inside the head of some quite, you know, troubled people.
0:11:12 > 0:11:14You know, Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver
0:11:14 > 0:11:16and Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19I wonder whether there was any...
0:11:19 > 0:11:21particularly amongst your influences,
0:11:21 > 0:11:25a film-maker who was the best person to teach you how to do that,
0:11:25 > 0:11:26how to get inside?
0:11:26 > 0:11:30I remember being very taken by the...
0:11:31 > 0:11:33..noir-ish, or should I say,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36the darker elements of Sunset Boulevard, let's say.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38There's nothing else,
0:11:38 > 0:11:42just us...and the cameras
0:11:42 > 0:11:46and those wonderful people out there in the dark.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51Right, Mr DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up.
0:11:51 > 0:11:52You're a great fighter.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55But if you want to stay here,
0:11:55 > 0:11:58if you want to stick close to the real money,
0:11:58 > 0:11:59this one you lose.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02Kirk Douglas's performances in Champion
0:12:02 > 0:12:05and The Bad And The Beautiful and Lust For Life.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09Brando, of course, in On The Waterfront.
0:12:09 > 0:12:11On The Waterfront sort of changed everything for me,
0:12:11 > 0:12:13cos, again, it's the first time I saw people that I...
0:12:13 > 0:12:17It was like a documentary for me, people that I knew around me.
0:12:17 > 0:12:19You shoulda taken care of me just a little bit,
0:12:19 > 0:12:22so I wouldn't have to take them dives for the short-end money.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24I had some bets down for you, you saw some money.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28You don't understand, I could have had class.
0:12:28 > 0:12:29I could have been a contender.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32I could have been somebody...
0:12:33 > 0:12:35..instead of a bum,
0:12:35 > 0:12:38which is what I am, let's face it.
0:12:38 > 0:12:43Why not go to those characters and why not explore that?
0:12:43 > 0:12:45What's immediately around you?
0:12:45 > 0:12:48Yeah, it's who I... You know, it's the old story.
0:12:48 > 0:12:53I've seen some... I know basically good people do very bad things.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55'You see, people like my father could never understand,
0:12:55 > 0:12:58'but I was a part of something and I belonged.
0:12:58 > 0:13:00'I was treated like a grown-up.'
0:13:00 > 0:13:01All right, look...
0:13:01 > 0:13:04'Every day I was learning to score.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06'At 13, I was making more money
0:13:06 > 0:13:09'than most of the grown-ups in the neighbourhood.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12'I mean, I had more money than I could spend, I had it all.'
0:13:16 > 0:13:19When we're so intrigued, thinking about The Age Of Innocence,
0:13:19 > 0:13:22in particular, which is filled with paintings.
0:13:24 > 0:13:25Oh, I'm so pleased...
0:13:25 > 0:13:29- She's already surrounded by so many rivals.- Yes.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31And also, you made that short
0:13:31 > 0:13:34about an abstract expressionist painter.
0:13:34 > 0:13:36- Oh, the New York Stories. - New York Stories.
0:13:36 > 0:13:37Life Lessons.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40I've not really heard you talk about paintings as an influence on...
0:13:40 > 0:13:42That would have been nice,
0:13:42 > 0:13:44that's the first thing I wanted to do.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51Cos I wasn't able to do anything, so I saw films,
0:13:51 > 0:13:54went to the parochial school, went to the church,
0:13:54 > 0:13:56but the key thing for me, originally,
0:13:56 > 0:13:58was drawing and painting.
0:13:58 > 0:14:00I wanted to go that way.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04I drew my own little films and that sort of thing on paper.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07- Different aspect ratios. - LAUGHTER
0:14:09 > 0:14:11You talk about how documentaries, in general,
0:14:11 > 0:14:14you see as a counterpart to your fiction films.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16For example, you once said that Italianamerican,
0:14:16 > 0:14:19the documentary about your parents,
0:14:19 > 0:14:21was the counterpart to Mean Streets.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25Yes, because that basically is the average person of that world,
0:14:25 > 0:14:27really, my parents, yeah.
0:14:27 > 0:14:28- Rolling?- Yeah.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32- OK, is that the light? - Why you sitting down there, why?
0:14:32 > 0:14:35- Why is he down there?- He can do what he wants, he can do what he wants.
0:14:35 > 0:14:37Why are you so far from me?
0:14:37 > 0:14:39'And I discovered that as we were shooting the film,
0:14:39 > 0:14:41'it took a few hours to shoot on a weekend,
0:14:41 > 0:14:44'I figured I'd warm them up a little bit and start talking,
0:14:44 > 0:14:45'but they took over, the picture.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48'And so I let it go and then tried to focus it
0:14:48 > 0:14:50'with certain questions.'
0:14:50 > 0:14:52Lovey-dovey sort of, you know,
0:14:52 > 0:14:55they say as you get older, your love grows stronger.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58So for some reason, it is getting a little stronger, you know.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00Right, Daddy?
0:15:00 > 0:15:02'But I learned a lot about them too
0:15:02 > 0:15:04'and I learned about how they lived
0:15:04 > 0:15:06'and so it was a big revelation to me
0:15:06 > 0:15:08'and also holding a shot of a person speaking,
0:15:08 > 0:15:10'depending on the personality,'
0:15:10 > 0:15:14depending on the physical body language and the face.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18And the rhythm of the storytelling, without cheating or jump cutting
0:15:18 > 0:15:20or, you know, cutting to another angle,
0:15:20 > 0:15:24just hold and how some people could command that
0:15:24 > 0:15:26and to have faith in that.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29And then I go here, this is what my mother-in-law taught me.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32Take a few spoonfuls of tomato,
0:15:32 > 0:15:36throw them in here, because your meatballs remain very soft.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40You've got a reputation for giving actors
0:15:40 > 0:15:41a lot of freedom to improvise.
0:15:41 > 0:15:46Is that only with the actors you've kind of worked with a lot
0:15:46 > 0:15:50or is it that you just have that approach with everyone?
0:15:50 > 0:15:54Oh, no, no, it has to be with... first of all the character.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58The role in the story in the film, um...
0:15:58 > 0:16:02and, of course, the script that accompanies that.
0:16:02 > 0:16:06Does the script allow and does the world that those characters are in
0:16:06 > 0:16:11allow a kind of overlapping sense of freedom and dialogue?
0:16:11 > 0:16:13Does it allow that, that's one thing.
0:16:13 > 0:16:17And if it does, how far can we take it per scene,
0:16:17 > 0:16:20which doesn't throw us too far off the tracks?
0:16:20 > 0:16:22You know, push and push and push and see.
0:16:22 > 0:16:23If you have the time.
0:16:33 > 0:16:35You talking to me?
0:16:36 > 0:16:38You talking to me?
0:16:40 > 0:16:43You talking to me?
0:16:43 > 0:16:45There are so many of lines of dialogue from your films
0:16:45 > 0:16:47that are repeated by people endlessly.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49I wonder how many of them are kind of from the script
0:16:49 > 0:16:50and how many are improvised?
0:16:50 > 0:16:52The key one is "You talking to me?"
0:16:52 > 0:16:55Which is the mirror in Taxi Driver
0:16:55 > 0:16:57and that was the last week of shooting
0:16:57 > 0:17:00and in the script that's not... The dialogue is not there.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03And so I asked Bob, I said, "I think we need...
0:17:03 > 0:17:05"He has to speak to himself in the mirror."
0:17:05 > 0:17:07And I forget what Bob did, I think he called Paul Schrader
0:17:07 > 0:17:09and I forget what it was, but somehow
0:17:09 > 0:17:11we were under a lot of pressure to shoot.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15We were five days over on a 40-day shoot and the studio was furious
0:17:15 > 0:17:18and they were killing us and we just locked the door of the place,
0:17:18 > 0:17:21the location we were in. And I got on the floor in front of him
0:17:21 > 0:17:24and he started playing with the gun or whatever that was
0:17:24 > 0:17:26and then started saying "Are you talking to me?"
0:17:26 > 0:17:28And he just kept repeating it.
0:17:28 > 0:17:29"Keep going, keep going, keep going."
0:17:31 > 0:17:35Well, then who the hell else are you talking to, you talking to me?
0:17:35 > 0:17:37Well, I'm the only one here.
0:17:39 > 0:17:41Who the fuck do you think you're talking to?
0:17:42 > 0:17:44Oh, yeah?
0:17:46 > 0:17:48OK.
0:17:49 > 0:17:53And he developed that moment and, as I say,
0:17:53 > 0:17:55it was done under a lot of...
0:17:55 > 0:17:58The AD was a good guy, he was banging on the door saying,
0:17:58 > 0:18:00"We've got to go, we've got to go, man. We are in trouble."
0:18:00 > 0:18:03I said, "Give me two minutes, two minutes, this is good."
0:18:03 > 0:18:07Is that the greatest surprise you've ever come across from improvisation
0:18:07 > 0:18:08or was there an even bigger one?
0:18:08 > 0:18:12A bigger one I think in Mean Streets with De Niro wanting to...
0:18:12 > 0:18:16Again, it has to do with trust, really.
0:18:16 > 0:18:18In Mean Streets he wanted to do something further
0:18:18 > 0:18:20about the character of Johnny.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24He wanted to show why Charlie is taken in by Johnny,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27how he could talk, how he could tell him, give him excuses,
0:18:27 > 0:18:29always excuses, you know?
0:18:29 > 0:18:30What's the matter with you?
0:18:30 > 0:18:32You can't go round bullshitting people that way.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34If you're worried about something, you gotta keep it.
0:18:34 > 0:18:36You don't know what happened to me.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38I'm so depressed about other things, I can't worry about payments.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41I come home last Tuesday, I have my money in cash,
0:18:41 > 0:18:42you know, blah-blah, bing-bing.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44Coming home, I ran into Jimmy Sparks.
0:18:44 > 0:18:46I owe Jimmy Sparks 700, like, for four months.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49I gotta pay the guy, he lives in my building, hangs out across
0:18:49 > 0:18:51- the street, I gotta pay the guy, right?- Yeah.- So what happened?
0:18:51 > 0:18:53I had to give some to my mother,
0:18:53 > 0:18:55then I wound up with 25 at the end of the week.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57Then what happened today, you ain't gonna believe,
0:18:57 > 0:18:59- cos this is incredible, I can't believe it myself.- What?
0:18:59 > 0:19:01I was in a game, I was ahead like 600, 700, right?
0:19:01 > 0:19:03- You got to be kidding me. - Yeah, that's the streak...
0:19:03 > 0:19:06- You know Joey Clams?- Yeah. - Joey Scala, yeah.
0:19:06 > 0:19:08- I know him, too, yeah. - No, Joey Scala is Joey Clams.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11- Right.- Right. - They're the same person.- Yeah.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13- Hey.- Hey.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16'To see the two of them work that way,'
0:19:16 > 0:19:18I knew that we had something I thought special
0:19:18 > 0:19:21about what it was like to be there in that world.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24Hopefully there's an element of trust,
0:19:24 > 0:19:26you know, and if not, you have enough footage
0:19:26 > 0:19:29that you could shape it, in the cutting.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31And is this why you keep coming back to...
0:19:31 > 0:19:34to you working with Bobby and DiCaprio and...
0:19:34 > 0:19:36Yeah, it's the same with Leo, a similar thing.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39There's a 30 years' difference, but he has a similar sensibility,
0:19:39 > 0:19:42he's not afraid of going certain places.
0:19:42 > 0:19:47He's younger, he's younger, so there's a tendency to...
0:19:48 > 0:19:52..er, be excitement level in rehearsals.
0:19:52 > 0:19:54LAUGHTER
0:19:54 > 0:19:56I said, "Calm...calm down."
0:19:56 > 0:19:58You yourself have done quite a lot of acting,
0:19:58 > 0:20:02- especially in your own films. - That was accidental.- Is that partly
0:20:02 > 0:20:03- a sort of Hitchcock thing?- No.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05No, no, no, don't, don't, don't.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08Whoa! The fucking meter, what are you doing?
0:20:08 > 0:20:10What are you doing with the meter?
0:20:10 > 0:20:13Did I tell you...did I do, did I tell you to do that with the meter?
0:20:13 > 0:20:16Put the meter back, let the numbers go on,
0:20:16 > 0:20:19I don't care what I have to pay, I'm not getting out.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21So we could build our own
0:20:21 > 0:20:23- movie studio.- Excellent.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25You've also done serious stuff.
0:20:25 > 0:20:27You're in Kurosawa's Dreams, you know.
0:20:27 > 0:20:29I was asked to do that by Kurosawa,
0:20:29 > 0:20:32because Francis Coppola told him I would.
0:20:32 > 0:20:34LAUGHTER
0:20:37 > 0:20:40Yes, I consume this natural setting,
0:20:40 > 0:20:42I devour it completely and wholly.
0:20:44 > 0:20:45And then when I'm through...
0:20:48 > 0:20:50..the picture appears before me complete.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54So, I memorised it while I was shooting Goodfellas
0:20:54 > 0:20:56and then, by the time we finished shooting Goodfellas,
0:20:56 > 0:21:00he had finished shooting Dreams and he was waiting for me.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03- Right.- And he was going to be 82 years old.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06And, boy, it was pressure.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08Two days after shooting we wound up going to Japan,
0:21:08 > 0:21:10that's when I read Silence.
0:21:10 > 0:21:14You make such a huge variety of different kinds of cinema
0:21:14 > 0:21:16and, you know, people talk about there being
0:21:16 > 0:21:19explicit religious themes in some of your films and not in others.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22Are matters of faith and moral crisis an important ingredient,
0:21:22 > 0:21:25is that an essential ingredient of one of your films, do you think?
0:21:25 > 0:21:26Well, that's what I grew up around.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29I mean, I saw it happening around me
0:21:29 > 0:21:33and it was very much in the dialogue of the family.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36So everything was very...
0:21:36 > 0:21:39clearly had to do with right and wrong, the morality.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41The church added the other element
0:21:41 > 0:21:46and what I heard spoken about in the church by certain people
0:21:46 > 0:21:52was really strong and had a comfort to it in terms of compassion
0:21:52 > 0:21:54and love and what does that mean, really?
0:21:54 > 0:21:57And also, as I say, I saw some people do,
0:21:57 > 0:22:00some genuinely good people, were just ruined, ruined,
0:22:00 > 0:22:02ruined and disgraced.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05Disgraced. And so I lived with that.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07I was impressed,
0:22:07 > 0:22:10I was impressed by it, because that's your world, your universe.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13But when you go out into that, as you did,
0:22:13 > 0:22:14go out into the wider world,
0:22:14 > 0:22:19are you saying that you sort of carried this into every film
0:22:19 > 0:22:21that it's a thematic element in...?
0:22:21 > 0:22:23I think that drives me, there's no doubt,
0:22:23 > 0:22:26I can't get away from it. I tried.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42Over the years, you've been attached to many, many projects,
0:22:42 > 0:22:44gone after projects.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Brando in a film about Wounded Knee,
0:22:47 > 0:22:50a film about Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra,
0:22:50 > 0:22:53Dostoevsky's The Idiot,
0:22:53 > 0:22:55been attached to many, many projects.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58Is there one of them, just one of them,
0:22:58 > 0:23:02that itches you the most now that you've made Silence?
0:23:02 > 0:23:05Well, there's a reason for every one of those that didn't get made.
0:23:05 > 0:23:07Yeah.
0:23:07 > 0:23:10Um...ah... It's sad about the Sinatra one.
0:23:10 > 0:23:13Yeah. There are some elements...
0:23:13 > 0:23:19Naturally, family has to be respected, I think,
0:23:19 > 0:23:22to make a film about him
0:23:22 > 0:23:25on a certain level, with the kind of production
0:23:25 > 0:23:28that calls for it, at least I think so.
0:23:28 > 0:23:31You also have the problem of who could play him?
0:23:31 > 0:23:35Who could play Sinatra? Who would be accepted?
0:23:35 > 0:23:37Maybe with the younger generation who didn't grow up with Sinatra,
0:23:37 > 0:23:41they could accept easier a new person playing...
0:23:41 > 0:23:43a different person playing him.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47But, for me, we tried with Dean Martin,
0:23:47 > 0:23:52it didn't work out in terms of the angle,
0:23:52 > 0:23:55the perception of the story,
0:23:55 > 0:23:57the way in, I couldn't figure it.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59It always seemed that there was more action
0:23:59 > 0:24:03with the Sinatra stuff and so we spent a lot of time on it.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05So is Sinatra the one that hurts the most?
0:24:05 > 0:24:07Probably, I think, yeah, yeah.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12And now I believe you're preparing to make The Irishman.
0:24:12 > 0:24:17Yeah, it's a similar world that we...like Goodfellas or Casino.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20But in a very different way, I have to find another...
0:24:20 > 0:24:22What about the style?
0:24:22 > 0:24:24Should I...? You don't change style just to change style,
0:24:24 > 0:24:28but one doesn't want to become atrophied, in a way.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30- No.- But, no, I'm looking forward to it.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32You know, looking forward to it, I mean,
0:24:32 > 0:24:34each one is a separate journey,
0:24:34 > 0:24:37each one is, like, a separate universe that you go into.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53You've long been a passionate evangelist for film preservation.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55You've established The Film Foundation,
0:24:55 > 0:25:00dedicated to restoring early colour films that are in danger of fading,
0:25:00 > 0:25:02you've established the World Cinema Project,
0:25:02 > 0:25:04dedicated to preserving and restoring
0:25:04 > 0:25:07neglected masterpieces of world cinema.
0:25:07 > 0:25:10How did that come about?
0:25:10 > 0:25:12Did you wake up one morning and think,
0:25:12 > 0:25:14"Oh, my God, my films are going to fade, what should I do?"
0:25:14 > 0:25:17Well, what happened was that myself and a number of other film-makers
0:25:17 > 0:25:20in California were trying to screen prints
0:25:20 > 0:25:24of, let's say, something exotic, like The Leopard
0:25:24 > 0:25:27and I called Fox at that time.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29They said, "We just didn't have room for the print,
0:25:29 > 0:25:30"we had to get rid of it."
0:25:30 > 0:25:35We began to realise that all those cinematic moments that inspired us,
0:25:35 > 0:25:39in a way, it isn't just watching movies,
0:25:39 > 0:25:41it's a matter of how they played into your life
0:25:41 > 0:25:44or how you lived your life alongside and within them
0:25:44 > 0:25:46and what they meant to you.
0:25:46 > 0:25:48I wasn't just going to a movie.
0:25:48 > 0:25:53And so this became part of who you are and part of how you saw life
0:25:53 > 0:25:57and experienced emotions, psychological impact,
0:25:57 > 0:26:00whether it's L'Avventura or whether it's, you know,
0:26:00 > 0:26:02seeing at ten years old Singin' In The Rain.
0:26:02 > 0:26:06So we realised that no-one was taking care of them
0:26:06 > 0:26:09and at that time it was pre-video,
0:26:09 > 0:26:14so all the vaults were being sold, these old films, get rid of them.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17And it was myself, Steve Spielberg had the same problem.
0:26:17 > 0:26:18So he'd call me and say,
0:26:18 > 0:26:20"Did you get a print of such and such?"
0:26:20 > 0:26:22I said, "No. I can't find it."
0:26:22 > 0:26:23He said, "It's amazing."
0:26:23 > 0:26:27And so we eventually, by 1979, had begun to realise
0:26:27 > 0:26:31that the films that were being made in colour, at a point in which,
0:26:31 > 0:26:32you have to understand,
0:26:32 > 0:26:35at a point in which all films had to be made in colour.
0:26:35 > 0:26:37That's when the colour technique
0:26:37 > 0:26:40or the colour system used was the weakest,
0:26:40 > 0:26:42because it was cheaper.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44They had to make all these prints, which meant that within the right
0:26:44 > 0:26:48or wrong circumstances, you could lose the colour of the print
0:26:48 > 0:26:50and maybe the negative in maybe six months.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52It was one of the reasons why Raging Bull
0:26:52 > 0:26:54was shot in black and white, because...
0:26:54 > 0:26:59And George Lucas shot Star Wars as if it had already faded
0:26:59 > 0:27:02and he said, "Watch it, if you have the white, sort of pink, in a way,
0:27:02 > 0:27:05"so this way, when it fades, it looks the same."
0:27:06 > 0:27:09We were all very conscious of this, you know.
0:27:09 > 0:27:13- How's your driving record? - It's clean, it's real clean,
0:27:13 > 0:27:14like my conscience.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30In Sight & Sound, I wrote an editorial
0:27:30 > 0:27:33saying that we wanted ten more films from you.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35Do you think you'll get another ten features done?
0:27:35 > 0:27:37- What do you think, ten more? - LAUGHTER
0:27:37 > 0:27:41- Ten more! - LAUGHTER
0:27:41 > 0:27:43Do we want ten more Martin Scorsese films?
0:27:43 > 0:27:46- Oh, no, God. - AUDIENCE:- Yes.
0:27:46 > 0:27:47- Thank you very much, Martin. - Thank you.
0:27:47 > 0:27:50APPLAUSE
0:27:51 > 0:27:54- Thank you. - Thank you very much.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59EXCITED CHATTER