0:00:20 > 0:00:23'People ask me...
0:00:24 > 0:00:27'..do the English people want
0:00:27 > 0:00:30'a National Theatre?'
0:00:30 > 0:00:33'Well, of course they don't. They never want anything.'
0:00:33 > 0:00:38They've got a British Museum. But they never wanted it.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41They've got a National Gallery but they never wanted it.
0:00:41 > 0:00:43'But now that they've got it,
0:00:43 > 0:00:47'now that it stands there as a mysterious phenomenon
0:00:47 > 0:00:51'that came to them in some sort of fashion,
0:00:51 > 0:00:53'they quite approve of it.'
0:01:05 > 0:01:08This is the Lyttelton stage now
0:01:09 > 0:01:12This is the safety curtain.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15This opens - top half goes up, bottom half goes down -
0:01:15 > 0:01:18and just behind, another five foot there,
0:01:18 > 0:01:21is the Lyttelton stalls.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49I will not dwell for long
0:01:49 > 0:01:52upon the aims and objects of the National Theatre -
0:01:52 > 0:01:55it is not unnatural that people should ask at times
0:01:55 > 0:01:57"What is it for?"
0:01:57 > 0:02:00I'm not sure that, in doing so
0:02:00 > 0:02:02they do not, perhaps unconsciously,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05rank themselves amongst the Philistines.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09'I should have some difficulty in answering the question
0:02:09 > 0:02:13'"What is Hamlet or Midsummer Night's Dream for? '
0:02:15 > 0:02:19'Be not too tame neither, but let your own discretion be your tutor.'
0:02:19 > 0:02:22Suit the action to the word, the word to the action,
0:02:22 > 0:02:25with this special observance that you o'erstep not
0:02:25 > 0:02:27the modesty of nature.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31For anything so overdone is from the purpose of playing
0:02:31 > 0:02:33whose end, both at the first and now,
0:02:33 > 0:02:38was and is to hold, as 'twere, the mirror up to nature.
0:02:41 > 0:02:45'After a series of frustrating and embarrassing false starts,
0:02:45 > 0:02:49'the National Theatre of Great Britain finally came into being
0:02:49 > 0:02:52'on October 22nd 1963
0:02:52 > 0:02:56'with the most famous English actor of the time as its first director.'
0:02:56 > 0:03:00If there was going to be a National Theatre,
0:03:00 > 0:03:02Olivier would have to be running it -
0:03:02 > 0:03:05he represented the theatre
0:03:05 > 0:03:09in... a symbolic way.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12'Erm, he was not just a great actor,
0:03:12 > 0:03:16'he was a great man of the theatre.'
0:03:16 > 0:03:19'He was still in his prime.'
0:03:19 > 0:03:22'He was so wonderfully virile and athletic.'
0:03:22 > 0:03:24Yes, you'd better go.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30There was also excitement about that because the glamour of Olivier
0:03:30 > 0:03:34both as a film star and having made the Shakespeare films.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38'But I think he actually liked the thing of being
0:03:38 > 0:03:41'the figurehead of the National Theatre.'
0:03:41 > 0:03:45..we happy few, we band of brothers,
0:03:45 > 0:03:49for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother,
0:03:49 > 0:03:51be he ne'er so base...
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I was very frightened of it when I started it,
0:03:54 > 0:03:57but I looked around as honestly as I could
0:03:57 > 0:03:59and, I hope, without self-deception,
0:03:59 > 0:04:03and I thought I probably was,
0:04:03 > 0:04:07perhaps, the fellow with the best sort of experiences
0:04:07 > 0:04:09to start the thing going.
0:04:10 > 0:04:14We shall patiently bear the trials which fate sends us,
0:04:14 > 0:04:17shall work for others, both now and when we are old,
0:04:17 > 0:04:19and we shall have no rest.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22Oh, he was very excited by it.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26He was also very frightened! SHE LAUGHS
0:04:26 > 0:04:29'And he knew he would have to have help,
0:04:29 > 0:04:32'so John Dexter and William Gaskill
0:04:32 > 0:04:35'both came from the Royal Court
0:04:35 > 0:04:39'and became the first two associate directors.'
0:04:43 > 0:04:47'In the mid-1950s, the British theatre was radically transformed
0:04:47 > 0:04:49'by a revoltionary movement
0:04:49 > 0:04:53'which began at the Royal Court Theatre in Sloane Square
0:04:53 > 0:04:56'in which Laurence Olivier and Joan Plowright
0:04:56 > 0:04:58'both played an important part.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02Joan Plowright was a product of the Royal Court
0:05:02 > 0:05:07and then she'd married Olivier and his performance in The Entertainer
0:05:07 > 0:05:11altered his career - and saved his career, he would say.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16APPLAUSE
0:05:18 > 0:05:21'But although there was now a National Theatre,
0:05:21 > 0:05:23'there was no actual theatre,
0:05:23 > 0:05:26'so the company took up temporary residence at the Old Vic,
0:05:26 > 0:05:29'which had a long and distinguished history,
0:05:29 > 0:05:33'but was south of the river and far away from the commercial theatres
0:05:33 > 0:05:35'of London's West End.'
0:05:36 > 0:05:38It's a long climb to the top.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43Sir Laurence used to say he didn't like the Vic - too many stairs
0:05:43 > 0:05:45and he was right.
0:05:52 > 0:05:57Your Royal Highness, lords, ladies and gentlemen.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01This is a joyous occasion.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04The National Theatre
0:06:04 > 0:06:09is to be something which the Old Vic is dedicated to,
0:06:09 > 0:06:15with Laurence, who is a passionate lover of the theatre.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18A fine actor, Laurence has got that feeling
0:06:18 > 0:06:22that we are doing something for our country,
0:06:22 > 0:06:25something to make our country more aware of itself,
0:06:25 > 0:06:29of everything that's happening all over the world.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33# Ahhh, ahhh
0:06:33 > 0:06:34# Ahhh
0:06:34 > 0:06:36# Whoo...
0:06:36 > 0:06:40'In the theatre, of all places it does teach us
0:06:40 > 0:06:43'to understand other human beings
0:06:43 > 0:06:46'that probably we don't want to know in ordinary life.'
0:06:51 > 0:06:55Good night, ladies. Good night Sweet ladies, good night.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59Night. Good night!
0:06:59 > 0:07:03'With a nod to national theatres in France, Germany and Russia,
0:07:03 > 0:07:07'Olivier set out to stage the classics
0:07:07 > 0:07:11'and he opened his first season with a full-length production of Hamlet,
0:07:11 > 0:07:13'starring Peter O'Toole,
0:07:13 > 0:07:17'hot from his film role as Lawrence of Arabia.'
0:07:21 > 0:07:24Sir Laurence said "When you start the National Theatre
0:07:24 > 0:07:28"after 300 years of talking about it and you open with Hamlet,
0:07:28 > 0:07:31"you put on your strongest suit of armour
0:07:31 > 0:07:34"and expect everybody to take aim at you",
0:07:34 > 0:07:36which I think they did.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38It's primarily about three people -
0:07:38 > 0:07:40three sons of fathers -
0:07:40 > 0:07:43Laertes, Fortinbras and Hamlet
0:07:43 > 0:07:45all of whom,
0:07:45 > 0:07:47their fathers are murdered.
0:07:47 > 0:07:51Hamlet was the first. It wasn't very much liked,
0:07:51 > 0:07:54though, of course, it did very good business.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58'They didn't really care for Peter O'Toole as Hamlet
0:07:58 > 0:08:03'and he and Larry had not really got on all that well.'
0:08:03 > 0:08:06'To be,
0:08:06 > 0:08:09'or not to be...'
0:08:09 > 0:08:13I think O'Toole had all his own ideas
0:08:13 > 0:08:16and rather thought Larry was trying to...
0:08:16 > 0:08:21make him into the kind of Hamlet he himself had played on film.
0:08:22 > 0:08:25Whether 'tis nobler in the mind
0:08:25 > 0:08:29to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,...
0:08:31 > 0:08:34..or to take arms against a sea of troubles...
0:08:35 > 0:08:39..and by opposing end them.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44"..and the crowd is absolutely going wild..."
0:08:44 > 0:08:48'We were playing a matinee
0:08:48 > 0:08:50'and the word had just come
0:08:50 > 0:08:54'about Kennedy's assassination.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58And, of course, there was a lot of discussion backstage
0:08:58 > 0:09:04as to what we should do - whether we should just go on with the play
0:09:04 > 0:09:07or whether we should make an announcement.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12'I think, at the end of the act
0:09:12 > 0:09:14'we made the announcement
0:09:14 > 0:09:18'and there was this incredible hush in the audience.'
0:09:35 > 0:09:39We're coming into the archive of the National Theatre,
0:09:39 > 0:09:42in the basement of the National Theatre studio
0:09:42 > 0:09:47And we have here everything documenting the National's history,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50from the early 20th-century movement to found the National
0:09:50 > 0:09:55up to productions a couple of months ago.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00'Although it had produced the world's greatest playwright
0:10:00 > 0:10:03'Britain had never had a National Theatre.'
0:10:03 > 0:10:07'The idea of founding one emerged in the middle of the 19th century
0:10:07 > 0:10:10'and the actor Harley Granville-Barker,
0:10:10 > 0:10:13'one of the country's leading Shakespeareans,
0:10:13 > 0:10:17'drew up a detailed plan for a National Theatre in 1904.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20In this bay, we have production boxes
0:10:20 > 0:10:24which document every show the National's ever done.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29This is a very early production - The Recruiting Officer -
0:10:29 > 0:10:33with Bill Gaskill, who we'd poached from the Royal Court.
0:10:35 > 0:10:37Your name, my dear?
0:10:37 > 0:10:40Wilful. Jack Wilful at your service.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43The Kentish Wilfuls or those of Staffordshire?
0:10:43 > 0:10:45Er, both, sir, both.
0:10:45 > 0:10:50I'm related to all the Wilfuls in Europe and head of the family.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52Do you live in this country?
0:10:52 > 0:10:55I live where I stand, I have no habitation beyond this spot
0:10:55 > 0:10:58What are you, sir? A rake.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02I found I was very nervous. Of him.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05It's very unfair
0:11:05 > 0:11:06on Sir Laurence,
0:11:06 > 0:11:09but it's bound to happen -
0:11:09 > 0:11:11you are in awe of him.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13Were you petrified?
0:11:13 > 0:11:16That doesn't cover it!
0:11:17 > 0:11:22But why? Because I'd come from revue.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26You know, it's not easy
0:11:26 > 0:11:30to suddenly find yourself with that person,
0:11:30 > 0:11:33with the entire Royal Court.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37They're great fun. I am glad you think so. They bore me stiff.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40Myra, don't be statuesque.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43Let go of my hand. I won't. You will!
0:11:43 > 0:11:45Ooh! Oh, I'm so sorry.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48It was an actors' theatre,
0:11:48 > 0:11:52in that it was run by the greatest actor we had.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56It was a kind of Mecca for actors.
0:11:57 > 0:12:02I remember the very first time when we started rehearsing Saint Joan
0:12:02 > 0:12:06and he and Joan Plowright came in to meet the company
0:12:06 > 0:12:08and we were all in a line
0:12:08 > 0:12:11and, like the king and queen, they walked down the line
0:12:11 > 0:12:13and greeted each one of us
0:12:13 > 0:12:15and when he got to me,
0:12:15 > 0:12:18he shook my hand and he eyeballed me
0:12:18 > 0:12:21and he eyeballed me and he eyeballed me
0:12:21 > 0:12:23until I dropped my eyes,
0:12:23 > 0:12:27by which time, my shirt was sticking to my back, of course.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30One can see, when a foreign company
0:12:30 > 0:12:33who is used to the idea of a permanent ensemble
0:12:33 > 0:12:36such as the Moscow Arts Theatre
0:12:36 > 0:12:38it is that hot breath of unity
0:12:38 > 0:12:41that, whenever I've seen it all through my life,
0:12:41 > 0:12:44sometimes rarely, but whenever I have,
0:12:44 > 0:12:47it's always seemed to be more important than the star system.
0:12:47 > 0:12:49When you were first asked
0:12:49 > 0:12:52to be director of the National Theatre,
0:12:52 > 0:12:55was this first thought in your mind?
0:12:55 > 0:12:58'Kenneth Tynan was the most influential critic of the day,
0:12:58 > 0:13:02'as well as an international authority on the theatre.'
0:13:02 > 0:13:05'He wrote scathing reviews in his column in the Observer
0:13:05 > 0:13:08'and had attacked Olivier himself,
0:13:08 > 0:13:12'but he was a fervent supporter of the idea of a National Theatre.'
0:13:12 > 0:13:14Tynan wrote and asked
0:13:14 > 0:13:19if he could be the dramaturg at the National Theatre.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21'We talked about it -
0:13:21 > 0:13:24'I thought he ought to be there '
0:13:24 > 0:13:28"..before you trust in critics who themselves are sore."
0:13:28 > 0:13:32Anything that is constantly changing is obviously alive
0:13:32 > 0:13:36and the only critic who is unchanging is a dead critic.
0:13:36 > 0:13:40I think Olivier must've thought there was an advantage
0:13:40 > 0:13:45in having a dangerously intelligent critic
0:13:45 > 0:13:48who might've been spiteful about productions
0:13:48 > 0:13:51and it's better to have the spitefulness
0:13:51 > 0:13:54confined to the theatre itself
0:13:56 > 0:13:59He certainly had an influence on the repertoire
0:13:59 > 0:14:02and certainly pushed Olivier to undertake productions
0:14:02 > 0:14:05which he might otherwise have not done at all
0:14:05 > 0:14:08with which he was probably unfamiliar.
0:14:08 > 0:14:13Can I ask you something about All Saints Choir School long ago...
0:14:13 > 0:14:16Tynan was a fascinating combination
0:14:16 > 0:14:20of star and fan.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24..lively, really highly artistic priest..
0:14:24 > 0:14:29I think they had an extrordinary relationship, Tynan and Olivier -
0:14:29 > 0:14:32it was father-son, it was lovers,
0:14:32 > 0:14:34it was haters,
0:14:34 > 0:14:37but, fundamentally,...
0:14:38 > 0:14:41..Ken Tynan... responded
0:14:41 > 0:14:45to... genius.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48The first thing Sir Laurence and I said to each other
0:14:48 > 0:14:51when we started on this journey
0:14:51 > 0:14:54was "Let's not be national, let's be international."
0:14:56 > 0:14:58Larry and Tynan
0:14:58 > 0:15:00needed each other,
0:15:00 > 0:15:05but they didn't necessarily LIKE each other very much -
0:15:05 > 0:15:08I called him a necessary irritant!
0:15:09 > 0:15:13'What if I had said I had seen him do you wrong?'
0:15:13 > 0:15:16'Or heard him say?'
0:15:16 > 0:15:19'Hath he said anything?' 'He hath, my lord.'
0:15:19 > 0:15:23'But be you well assured, no more than he'll unswear.'
0:15:23 > 0:15:27'What hath he said?' 'Why, that he did.'
0:15:28 > 0:15:31'I know not what he did.'
0:15:32 > 0:15:35'What? What?'
0:15:35 > 0:15:39'Lie...' 'With her?'
0:15:39 > 0:15:42'With her,
0:15:42 > 0:15:44'on her,
0:15:44 > 0:15:46'what you will.'
0:15:47 > 0:15:51This is John Dexter's very famous production of Othello
0:15:51 > 0:15:53from 1964
0:15:53 > 0:15:57with Olivier as the Moor and Frank Finlay as Iago.
0:15:57 > 0:15:59'At the age of 56,
0:15:59 > 0:16:03'Olivier took on a role he had avoided all his life.'
0:16:03 > 0:16:07'His performance as Othello was powerful and monumental.'
0:16:07 > 0:16:09'It quickly became legendary
0:16:09 > 0:16:12'and was hugely successful.'
0:16:12 > 0:16:14Let's talk about Othello a little.
0:16:14 > 0:16:19At the beginning, you were reluctant to play the part - why was that
0:16:19 > 0:16:23Well, I knew it was a...
0:16:23 > 0:16:25I knew it was a terror.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28I knew that it was almost impossible.
0:16:28 > 0:16:33Here we have Olivier blacking up in the dressing room beforehand
0:16:33 > 0:16:38Oh, that was amazing. And then he polished it with chiffon and things.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42I used to stick his eyelashes on quite a lot.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45'It was quite creepy when we first saw him.'
0:16:45 > 0:16:48'He suddenly appeared on the stage.'
0:16:50 > 0:16:54'Funny to think now, though. Wouldn't get away with it now.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57'It seemed so logical that Laurence should play Othello
0:16:57 > 0:17:01'and he clearly had to black up for it.'
0:17:01 > 0:17:03Oh, my fair warrior.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06Oh, my dear Othello.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09'It was difficult
0:17:09 > 0:17:12'because Larry has an area around him
0:17:12 > 0:17:17'which is quite difficult to... penetrate.'
0:17:17 > 0:17:20I would try to be near him and do things
0:17:20 > 0:17:23and I don't know whether it was ..
0:17:23 > 0:17:28a mixture of not wanting the make-up to come off
0:17:28 > 0:17:30or this sort of...
0:17:31 > 0:17:36..isolation that I think he wants when acting.
0:17:36 > 0:17:40You almost felt you ought to say "Hello, am I allowed in?"
0:17:40 > 0:17:43But half an hour! Being done, there is no pause!
0:17:43 > 0:17:45It is too late!
0:17:45 > 0:17:49The film wasn't much cop. We went and filmed it in a film studio
0:17:49 > 0:17:52and it didn't belong in there, really.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54You know, a theatre production
0:17:55 > 0:17:58I was the Second Gentleman of Cyprus.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01I had to run on and make a speech to the senate.
0:18:01 > 0:18:07I can still remember the voice now. I can hear it. It was so powerful.
0:18:07 > 0:18:11'By the world, I think my wife be honest and think she is not.'
0:18:11 > 0:18:15'I think thou art just and think thou art not. I'll have some proof!'
0:18:15 > 0:18:18'My name, which was as fresh as Dian's visage,
0:18:18 > 0:18:23'is now begrimed and black as mine own face!'
0:18:23 > 0:18:26# London, this lovely city...
0:18:26 > 0:18:30"They didn't half make a difference on the buses, these coloured chaps."
0:18:30 > 0:18:34"Wreathed in smiles and politeness, even at seven in the morning."
0:18:34 > 0:18:36"It made a nice change."
0:18:37 > 0:18:41'Olivier's Othello also attracted fierce opposition.'
0:18:41 > 0:18:43'Some critics mocked his performance
0:18:43 > 0:18:47'and accused him of sounding like a West Indian bus conductor.'
0:18:47 > 0:18:50I thought it was absolutely awful.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53Because so much was made of him blacking himself up
0:18:53 > 0:18:57and of him being "like something from the Caribbean."
0:19:00 > 0:19:03'He would sometimes fool about during that.'
0:19:03 > 0:19:08'He'd whisper "Your fares, please. No standing on the top deck."'
0:19:08 > 0:19:10You know, bus conductors used to -
0:19:10 > 0:19:13"Your fares, please. No standing on the top deck."
0:19:13 > 0:19:16We'd all start corpsing.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24I wish that all of you would get away from the idea
0:19:24 > 0:19:28that's acting's a terrible drill with the director as sergeant major.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31It simply isn't so. Acting's invention, make-believe.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34This time, will you please cough up some ideas
0:19:34 > 0:19:36and let me say they're terrible
0:19:38 > 0:19:41'The Old Vic was founded in 181 .'
0:19:41 > 0:19:45'But in the 1930s, it became the home, under Lilian Baylis,
0:19:45 > 0:19:47'of a famous theatrical revival
0:19:47 > 0:19:50'led by director Tyrone Guthrie
0:19:50 > 0:19:53'who staged legendary Shakespeare productions there
0:19:53 > 0:19:56'with stars such as John Gielgud, Ralph Richardson,
0:19:56 > 0:19:59'Peggy Ashcroft and Olivier himself.'
0:20:01 > 0:20:05OK, we'll go up to the upper circle.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08Lilian Baylis Circle, as it's known.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10'APPLAUSE'
0:20:14 > 0:20:19This would have been a thing that Lilian would've liked -
0:20:19 > 0:20:23that her Old Vic should be the National Theatre.
0:20:23 > 0:20:28In this way, we also saw that it was a continuity of her work
0:20:28 > 0:20:32and the only way we could safely guarantee it.
0:20:32 > 0:20:37'90 per cent of the staff are still with us from the old days '
0:20:37 > 0:20:40'Almost everybody has had something to do with the Old Vic.'
0:20:40 > 0:20:43Almost every actor that you see there
0:20:43 > 0:20:47will, at some time or another, be found on our boards -
0:20:47 > 0:20:50in fact, it's hardly possible to find a very good actor
0:20:50 > 0:20:54who has not been at the Old Vic at some time or another.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00'The Old Vic was meant to be a temporary home
0:21:00 > 0:21:04'until a new theatre could be built on the site that had been allocated
0:21:04 > 0:21:07'on a disused bomb site next to the Festival Hall.'
0:21:10 > 0:21:14Just after the first season opened at the Old Vic,
0:21:14 > 0:21:16we interviewed the architects.
0:21:17 > 0:21:22And then began the most boring week you can imagine
0:21:22 > 0:21:25because candidates came from all over Europe
0:21:25 > 0:21:29to give their submission of what they thought already
0:21:29 > 0:21:31should be the National Theatre
0:21:31 > 0:21:33and, after two days of this,
0:21:33 > 0:21:38in came an architect who, as far as I remember,
0:21:38 > 0:21:41had never done anything in the theatre - Denys Lasdun
0:21:41 > 0:21:47and he said "Gentlemen, I think that my background
0:21:47 > 0:21:50"and my record is sufficient
0:21:50 > 0:21:53"for you to know not only who I am,
0:21:53 > 0:21:56"but the way I approach any commission I have,
0:21:56 > 0:21:59"so I have nothing further to say to you."
0:21:59 > 0:22:04He said this with such quiet authority and conviction
0:22:04 > 0:22:07that there was no question - we all said "That's the man."
0:22:07 > 0:22:11Have you any idea what shape the National Theatre will take
0:22:11 > 0:22:13None at all. Why's that?
0:22:13 > 0:22:18Because it will need at least 12 months' examination
0:22:18 > 0:22:22before there's an inkling of what it will look like.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27'Over and above the problem of solving theatre,
0:22:27 > 0:22:30'there is the problem of doing something
0:22:30 > 0:22:33'worthy of that bend in the river -
0:22:33 > 0:22:35'immense architectural problems
0:22:35 > 0:22:40'before you even get down to the technology of the theatre.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45Just up here is the highest part of the building.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50'MYSTICAL CHANTING'
0:22:52 > 0:22:55'My name is Martin.'
0:22:55 > 0:22:58'I'm a soldier of Spain and that's it.'
0:22:58 > 0:23:02'Most of my life I've spent fighting for land, treasure
0:23:02 > 0:23:05'and the cross.'
0:23:05 > 0:23:07'I'm worth millions.'
0:23:07 > 0:23:11'Soon I'll be dead and they'll bury me out here in Peru,
0:23:11 > 0:23:15'the land I helped ruin as a boy.'
0:23:15 > 0:23:18'This story is about ruin.'
0:23:19 > 0:23:21'Ruin and gold.'
0:23:21 > 0:23:24'More gold than any of you will ever see,
0:23:24 > 0:23:28'even if you work in a counting house.'
0:23:28 > 0:23:30'I'm going to tell you how 167 men
0:23:30 > 0:23:33'conquered an empire of ten million.'
0:23:33 > 0:23:37This was the National's first new play, by Peter Schaffer.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40He became, really, the house playwright.
0:23:41 > 0:23:45In Royal Hunt Of The Sun, I was dealing with an epic theme,
0:23:45 > 0:23:47it was highly stylised.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49The dialogue was not naturalistic,
0:23:49 > 0:23:54we had a lot of effects to help us in the stylisation -
0:23:54 > 0:23:58masks, chants and rituals of all sorts.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03Royal Hunt was drama, it was spectacle,
0:24:03 > 0:24:06there was music in it,
0:24:06 > 0:24:08it was total theatre.
0:24:08 > 0:24:13It was about that time that that phrase came into the language -
0:24:13 > 0:24:15"total theatre". Yes.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19I'm not so sure I didn't invent it.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24'MYSTICAL CHANTING'
0:24:26 > 0:24:30'Bring him the gold of Quito and Pachacamac!'
0:24:30 > 0:24:34'Bring him the gold of Cusco and Colicanca!'
0:24:34 > 0:24:37'Bring him the gold of Viltendota!'
0:24:37 > 0:24:41'Bring him the gold of Colai, of Amarys
0:24:41 > 0:24:44'and Arrekipa!'
0:24:45 > 0:24:49The play The Royal Hunt Of The Sun had been around for a long time
0:24:49 > 0:24:52before the National Theatre decided to do it
0:24:52 > 0:24:54and several managements had had it,
0:24:54 > 0:24:56but all said it was impossible
0:24:56 > 0:24:58to present the conquest of Peru
0:24:58 > 0:25:02on the stage - that you would need a cast of about 60 or 70
0:25:02 > 0:25:06and the most extraordinary scenic effects,
0:25:06 > 0:25:10but in fact we came to a very simple way of presenting it
0:25:10 > 0:25:14in that the stage is practically bare and the audience...
0:25:14 > 0:25:17imagines it all for themselves
0:25:20 > 0:25:24I played an Indian, covered in Texas earth -
0:25:24 > 0:25:26it was a body make-up
0:25:26 > 0:25:30that made you a sort of bronzed brown,
0:25:30 > 0:25:36but it glittered, it had pieces of metal in it. Hell to get off
0:25:36 > 0:25:38CILLA BLACK: # Walk on by...
0:25:38 > 0:25:42There I was with a black wig that was rather in the Cilla Black style,
0:25:42 > 0:25:45like I was looking like an Indian Cilla Black.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48Anyway, I came up the...
0:25:48 > 0:25:51I had no lines, but I was the interpreter
0:25:51 > 0:25:54and I had to do lots of hand gestures to interpret.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57'MYSTICAL CHANTING'
0:26:00 > 0:26:05It was what the National was born to produce -
0:26:05 > 0:26:08that kind of play -
0:26:08 > 0:26:12and, after it, other plays followed, I think,
0:26:12 > 0:26:18with that kind of... increasing freedom
0:26:18 > 0:26:22and I very proud to be the first.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25Welcome, dear Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30Moreover that we much did long to see you.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34The need we have to use you did provoke our hasty sending.
0:26:36 > 0:26:40'Something have you heard Of Hamlet's transformation...'
0:26:41 > 0:26:45You don't seem to feel the need to write socially conscious plays -
0:26:45 > 0:26:50there are no strikes, no colour problems, no Vietnam war...
0:26:50 > 0:26:52No, but I like to think
0:26:52 > 0:26:55that a black soldier on strike in Vietnam
0:26:55 > 0:26:58would get some kind of response from my plays.
0:27:00 > 0:27:04This is the box for Rosencrantz And Guildenstern Are Dead,
0:27:04 > 0:27:06Tom Stoppard's great play.
0:27:08 > 0:27:10'Who are you?' 'Rosencrantz And Guildenstern.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13'Never heard of you.' 'Well, we're nobody special.'
0:27:13 > 0:27:16'We have instructions...' 'First I've heard of it.'
0:27:16 > 0:27:18'Let me finish! We've come from Denmark.'
0:27:18 > 0:27:20'We're delivering Hamlet.' 'Who's he?'
0:27:20 > 0:27:24'You've heard of him.' 'Yes, I want nothing to do with it.'
0:27:27 > 0:27:30Rosencrantz And Guildenstern Are Dead
0:27:30 > 0:27:35was performed at the Edinburgh Festival in 1966
0:27:35 > 0:27:38it got a particularly good review
0:27:38 > 0:27:41in the Observer newspaper the following Sunday.
0:27:41 > 0:27:45'Ken Tynan asked if I'd come in and meet him.'
0:27:45 > 0:27:49We aren't doing Shakespeare, like the Royal Shakespeare Company,
0:27:49 > 0:27:52or new plays like the Royal Court - we're doing the lot.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56'We're doing Noel Coward, Sophocles, we're doing new authors,
0:27:56 > 0:27:59'foreign premieres, which I haven't talked about...
0:27:59 > 0:28:02Ken Tynan had a stutter,
0:28:02 > 0:28:05which I would describe as an attractive stutter
0:28:05 > 0:28:09and, although I was by no means an adolescent,
0:28:09 > 0:28:12I felt adolescent in his presence.
0:28:12 > 0:28:16'I was quite honestly in awe of him
0:28:16 > 0:28:18'and, to my horror,
0:28:18 > 0:28:21'I realised I was stuttering back at him,
0:28:21 > 0:28:24'a sort of sympathetic stutter.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31'To sum up, your father, whom you love, dies.'
0:28:31 > 0:28:35'You are his heir. You come back to find that hardly was the corpse cold
0:28:35 > 0:28:39'before his young brother popped onto his throne and into his sheets,
0:28:39 > 0:28:42'thereby offending both legal and natural practice '
0:28:42 > 0:28:46'Now, why exactly are you behaving in this extraordinary manner?'
0:28:46 > 0:28:47'LAUGHTER'
0:28:47 > 0:28:50And this is the rehearsal room
0:28:50 > 0:28:53Top floor of the building.
0:28:55 > 0:28:57'During the rehearsals,
0:28:57 > 0:29:01'Laurence Olivier would come in not often,
0:29:01 > 0:29:04'but I do remember him coming in one day
0:29:04 > 0:29:07'and watching the rehearsal for half an hour.'
0:29:07 > 0:29:10He got up and went to the door to leave
0:29:10 > 0:29:12and turned at the door and said
0:29:12 > 0:29:15"Just the odd pearl"
0:29:15 > 0:29:17and left.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25Downstairs is the wardrobe and laundry now.
0:29:25 > 0:29:28When the National were here, this was the canteen,
0:29:28 > 0:29:31just round the corner here.
0:29:33 > 0:29:36'In just a few years, the National had become a major force,
0:29:36 > 0:29:41'with sell-out productions that rivalled anything in the West End
0:29:41 > 0:29:44'or by its main rival, The Royal Shakespeare Company.
0:29:44 > 0:29:46'But the scale of its operation
0:29:46 > 0:29:49'was still makeshift and intimate.'
0:29:49 > 0:29:53Just a bog-standard... wardrobe room -
0:29:53 > 0:29:57costumes and boxes and bits and pieces.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04And all you'd expect from a laundry.
0:30:04 > 0:30:08Wash basins, washing machines, dryers,
0:30:08 > 0:30:11the hot box there for speedy dry
0:30:11 > 0:30:13for various costumes.
0:30:15 > 0:30:22Every morning, Olivier and I used to traipse round every department
0:30:22 > 0:30:25and that created a good relationship with him.
0:30:25 > 0:30:30'It was very important that he was accessible to people.'
0:30:30 > 0:30:33All the administrative offices
0:30:33 > 0:30:37were in a long kind of prefab hut
0:30:37 > 0:30:41that had a big rehearsal room at one end,
0:30:41 > 0:30:46had a canteen and then had offices going all the way down -
0:30:46 > 0:30:49it was the whole block.
0:30:51 > 0:30:56It was all in prefabricated huts and make do and mend -
0:30:56 > 0:30:59I remember going into the tiny little green room, which was a cafe
0:30:59 > 0:31:03with home-made food, with a cigarette machine in the corner
0:31:03 > 0:31:08that only sold Olivier cigarettes - you had no choice!
0:31:08 > 0:31:12As soon as you got into these shabby Nissen huts,
0:31:12 > 0:31:16you felt as if you were sitting there with your leather jackets on,
0:31:16 > 0:31:19waiting to be told "Right, scramble."
0:31:19 > 0:31:22'It conferred an informality
0:31:22 > 0:31:24'on everyone's behaviour
0:31:24 > 0:31:27'and I think Larry himself behaved
0:31:27 > 0:31:31'like a commander in chief of an air flight.'
0:31:32 > 0:31:35BEATLES: # Found my way downstairs and drank a cup
0:31:35 > 0:31:39'Puffing and globbering, they dragged theyselves,
0:31:39 > 0:31:43'rampling and dancing with wild abdomen,
0:31:43 > 0:31:48'stubbing in wild postumes amongst themselves.'
0:31:48 > 0:31:53'They seemed Olivier to the world about them.'
0:31:55 > 0:31:57'By the late '60s,
0:31:57 > 0:32:01'the National was even starting to attract pop royalty.'
0:32:03 > 0:32:07'Lennon had published those poems in his own right
0:32:07 > 0:32:12'and he and Victor worked on a way of making them a little play.'
0:32:14 > 0:32:17I was playing the John Lennon character,
0:32:17 > 0:32:22the centre of these poems that he wrote when he was a kid
0:32:22 > 0:32:25'Funny thing, you didn't put in pop music.'
0:32:25 > 0:32:28'No, because up till then it hadn't hit me.'
0:32:28 > 0:32:34Pop music didn't hit me till I was 16 and this is all before 16.
0:32:34 > 0:32:38It's not really John's childhood, it's all of ours, isn't it?
0:32:38 > 0:32:40It is. We're all one, aren't we
0:32:40 > 0:32:44# I read the news today, oh, boy...
0:32:44 > 0:32:48'The National was now staging plays that confronted contemporary issues,
0:32:48 > 0:32:54'like class and colonialism, took an irreverent approach to the classics
0:32:54 > 0:32:58'and reflected the enormous social changes happening at the time.
0:32:58 > 0:33:01The recognisable modernity
0:33:01 > 0:33:05of the productions that went on at the National Theatre
0:33:05 > 0:33:10wouldn't have been even conceivable in the years before the War.
0:33:10 > 0:33:12It was part and parcel
0:33:12 > 0:33:16of a fundamental widespread transformation
0:33:16 > 0:33:20of artistic life and social life,
0:33:20 > 0:33:25which were the consequence of our recovering from the Second World War
0:33:25 > 0:33:28and the establishment of the National Health Service
0:33:28 > 0:33:30and of free education.
0:33:30 > 0:33:34'It was a change in attitude towards authority,
0:33:34 > 0:33:36'towards respectability.'
0:33:36 > 0:33:39It was not Olivier's idea,
0:33:39 > 0:33:42I think he did it often rather reluctantly
0:33:42 > 0:33:45because he was a creature OF the old days.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48'Ken Tynan, on the other hand,
0:33:48 > 0:33:51'basked in the new hedonistic atmosphere.'
0:33:51 > 0:33:53'He fostered a series of productions
0:33:53 > 0:33:56'that reflected the permissiveness of the times
0:33:56 > 0:33:59'and extended the boundaries of what was acceptable
0:33:59 > 0:34:02'on the stage of the National.
0:34:03 > 0:34:06When I did the production of Oedipus,
0:34:06 > 0:34:09I had a tremendous clash with Olivier
0:34:09 > 0:34:13because the adaptation was done by Ted Hughes,
0:34:13 > 0:34:16it was in a strong,...
0:34:17 > 0:34:23..sometimes brutal, outrageously... living language
0:34:23 > 0:34:25very far from what were
0:34:25 > 0:34:30the "correct" versions of a Greek tragedy of those days.
0:34:30 > 0:34:32'Anger! Agony!'
0:34:32 > 0:34:35'Tearing his throat!'
0:34:35 > 0:34:38'His fingers stabbed
0:34:38 > 0:34:40'deep into his eye sockets!'
0:34:42 > 0:34:45I was The Messenger. Wonderful part -
0:34:45 > 0:34:49just the one speech. You come on and tell the story of him
0:34:49 > 0:34:51plucking out his eyes.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57'His hands hooked,
0:34:57 > 0:35:00'gripped the eyeballs
0:35:00 > 0:35:02'and he tugged,
0:35:02 > 0:35:04'twisting,
0:35:04 > 0:35:07'dragging with all his strength
0:35:07 > 0:35:09'till they gave way
0:35:09 > 0:35:12'and he flung them from him!'
0:35:14 > 0:35:17And then, in the end of the play,
0:35:17 > 0:35:20you know the story of the penis I imagine.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23At the end, you produce an enormous golden phallic symbol -
0:35:23 > 0:35:28it is possible that you could be accused of tastelessness.
0:35:28 > 0:35:33In this play, we put on the stage, at the end of the ceremony,
0:35:33 > 0:35:37the very object which, in antiquity,
0:35:37 > 0:35:41in the Greek theatre, in the Roman theatre,
0:35:41 > 0:35:46was the central... object
0:35:46 > 0:35:50round which theatre ceremonies unfolded.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52Nobody blows raspberries at it
0:35:52 > 0:35:56nobody writes graffiti on it, nobody kisses or licks it -
0:35:56 > 0:36:00it stands there in the light as it has done all through history,
0:36:00 > 0:36:03making no comment and no demands.
0:36:03 > 0:36:06It is a phallus.
0:36:06 > 0:36:08WHOOPING
0:36:08 > 0:36:11UPBEAT JAZZ
0:36:13 > 0:36:17Peter wanted to end the play by bringing on stage a golden phallus
0:36:17 > 0:36:21and then the whole cast would march around the auditorium,
0:36:21 > 0:36:24playing and singing "Yes, we have no bananas"
0:36:24 > 0:36:29and, for Sir Laurence, this orgiastic finale stuck in his throat
0:36:29 > 0:36:31and he summoned Peter Brook and me
0:36:31 > 0:36:34for a conversation that went on for about five hours
0:36:34 > 0:36:37with a considerable consumption of Scotch
0:36:37 > 0:36:42and I recall Peter picking up a very heavy, solid glass ashtray
0:36:42 > 0:36:44from the table here
0:36:44 > 0:36:47and physically throwing it at Sir Laurence.
0:36:48 > 0:36:51'There was only one major incident,
0:36:51 > 0:36:53'at the schools' matinee.'
0:36:53 > 0:36:56At the end of the play, I went on and said
0:36:56 > 0:37:00"The rest of the play is something that many of your teachers
0:37:00 > 0:37:05"think you should be spared from seeing and they want to protect you,
0:37:05 > 0:37:09"so would the teachers and the classes who can't take it
0:37:09 > 0:37:11"now please walk out?"
0:37:11 > 0:37:13So a small number got out
0:37:13 > 0:37:17and the rest stayed there and the play went on.
0:37:17 > 0:37:21And I don't think anyone suffered as a result.
0:37:23 > 0:37:27THE KINKS: # Dirty old river, must you keep rolling
0:37:27 > 0:37:31# Rolling into the night
0:37:32 > 0:37:36# People so busy, make me feel dizzy
0:37:36 > 0:37:40# Taxi lights shine so bright..
0:37:40 > 0:37:44'Architect Denys Lasdun's plan for a large, new Modernist building
0:37:44 > 0:37:48'incorporating three separate stages on the South Bank of the Thames
0:37:48 > 0:37:52'was finally unveiled in October 1967.'
0:37:55 > 0:38:00In all times in our history, we need a heartening thing -
0:38:00 > 0:38:03the most beautiful building in the ideal spot on the River Thames
0:38:03 > 0:38:06in the heart of our capital city,
0:38:06 > 0:38:09I think, will give a great feeling of pride
0:38:09 > 0:38:12to all these islands' inhabitants
0:38:12 > 0:38:15and if ever they needed that feeling, it's now.
0:38:15 > 0:38:20# Waterloo sunset's fine...
0:38:20 > 0:38:23'Lasdun's building is now widely regarded
0:38:23 > 0:38:25'as an architectural masterpiece.'
0:38:25 > 0:38:30'But at the time, Olivier was forced to defend its brutalism and its cost
0:38:30 > 0:38:32'to a very aggressive press.'
0:38:32 > 0:38:38Would you argue for it to be given priority over hospitals and schools?
0:38:38 > 0:38:41I wouldn't argue that anything should get priority over hospitals
0:38:41 > 0:38:43or schools or houses,
0:38:43 > 0:38:46but point out that, in Germany it would be given priority
0:38:46 > 0:38:49over all those three things.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52You're not to have anything to drink today, it's bad for you.
0:38:52 > 0:38:54Dear lady, I'm perfectly all right.
0:38:54 > 0:38:58All the same, don't you dare have anything to drink.
0:38:58 > 0:39:00'In 1967,
0:39:00 > 0:39:03'Olivier was diagnosed with prostate cancer
0:39:03 > 0:39:07'and spent several weeks in hospital.'
0:39:07 > 0:39:11He was taken ill when we were doing the Three Sisters
0:39:11 > 0:39:13and really, from then on,
0:39:13 > 0:39:17he should've been relieved of a bit more... work.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19But he didn't want to be.
0:39:19 > 0:39:21# For love, for love...
0:39:21 > 0:39:25It was St Thomas' Hospital he was in and he had a direct line
0:39:25 > 0:39:30through to the prompt corner so that he knew what was going on.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33So even then, he was on stage with us.
0:39:33 > 0:39:37Good evening. I'm Dr Kilmore. And about time too -
0:39:37 > 0:39:41if this is the National Health Service, take me to the leeches
0:39:41 > 0:39:43I'm sorry I kept you waiting, Mr...
0:39:43 > 0:39:46Bigger, Doctor. Mr Francis Bigger.
0:39:46 > 0:39:48Bigger. Francis Bigger?
0:39:48 > 0:39:51Wait a minute, that rings a bell.
0:39:51 > 0:39:56You're that chap who says doctors and medicine are unnecessary.
0:39:58 > 0:40:00Now, this is the lift
0:40:00 > 0:40:03that takes us up to the very first room
0:40:03 > 0:40:07that I ended up in on my first day here.
0:40:07 > 0:40:12'Well, in the end, Mr Mackie's heart stopped three times.'
0:40:12 > 0:40:14'And three times I brought him back.'
0:40:14 > 0:40:19'They were fetching the artificial respirator when it stopped again
0:40:19 > 0:40:22'and some daring soul decided to call it a day.'
0:40:24 > 0:40:28'Well, I'm sure I speak for all of those who new him in life
0:40:28 > 0:40:30'when I say that he will be remembered
0:40:30 > 0:40:35'as an evil-tempered, repulsive old man.'
0:40:35 > 0:40:37This is it, yes.
0:40:38 > 0:40:40What memories.
0:40:40 > 0:40:45This is the first room I came into with The National Health.
0:40:45 > 0:40:49It's the only play I know where they sprayed the stage with antiseptic
0:40:49 > 0:40:53so that, when the curtain went up, it smelled like a hospital.
0:40:55 > 0:40:59'I played the ward orderly called Barnet.'
0:40:59 > 0:41:04My last line in that play was looking at the audience, saying
0:41:04 > 0:41:06"It's a funny old world we live in
0:41:06 > 0:41:08"and you're lucky to get out of it alive."
0:41:08 > 0:41:12And then we had a jazz band playing at the end.
0:41:12 > 0:41:15It was a play not to Olivier's taste -
0:41:15 > 0:41:19it was very sceptical, very funny, very disrespectful of authority
0:41:19 > 0:41:22He'd just been cured of cancer
0:41:22 > 0:41:26and there was a very ironic picture of a consultant
0:41:26 > 0:41:30doing the round of the wards with all his young doctors behind him.
0:41:31 > 0:41:34'He has had an enlargement of the prostate
0:41:34 > 0:41:37'with hesitancy of micturition and acute retention.'
0:41:37 > 0:41:43'I did a retropubic prostatectomy and put a catheter in his bladder.'
0:41:43 > 0:41:45'Why?'
0:41:45 > 0:41:47'LAUGHTER'
0:41:47 > 0:41:52'It was sceptical of the whole structure of British authority
0:41:52 > 0:41:55'and I don't think Olivier much cared for that.'
0:41:55 > 0:41:59A pound of man's flesh taken from a man is not so estimable
0:41:59 > 0:42:03profitable neither, as flesh of muttons, beefs or goats.
0:42:03 > 0:42:07I say to buy his favour I extend this friendship -
0:42:07 > 0:42:09if he will take it, so...
0:42:09 > 0:42:12'When he returned to the helm, Olivier continued to oversee
0:42:12 > 0:42:14'every aspect of the theatre
0:42:14 > 0:42:17'and to star in many of its productions.'
0:42:17 > 0:42:21The quality of mercy is not strained.
0:42:21 > 0:42:26It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath.
0:42:26 > 0:42:29It is twice blest.
0:42:29 > 0:42:34It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
0:42:34 > 0:42:36Laurence Olivier said
0:42:36 > 0:42:39"my wife Joan Plowright would love you to work with her
0:42:39 > 0:42:43"when she plays Portia in The Merchant Of Venice"
0:42:43 > 0:42:45and I said "Well, that's very nice,
0:42:45 > 0:42:48"I'd better come and talk about it."
0:42:48 > 0:42:51I wonder how many of these people have realised
0:42:51 > 0:42:54that Jonathan Miller's a Jew.
0:42:55 > 0:42:57Yes, well, he is a Jew, of course,
0:42:57 > 0:42:59but one of the better sort.
0:42:59 > 0:43:05I'd rather be working class than a Jew. Yes, there's no comparison.
0:43:05 > 0:43:08In fact, I'm not really a Jew. Just Jew-ish.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10Not the whole hog, you see.
0:43:11 > 0:43:14For a time, Larry was just a bit indifferent
0:43:14 > 0:43:19to Jonathan's charms and fun way of working
0:43:19 > 0:43:24and also he was a bit cross because Jonathan had said
0:43:24 > 0:43:28"It doesn't really need a false nose",
0:43:28 > 0:43:31which he put on and had a lot of fun with.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34He already had a set of false teeth
0:43:34 > 0:43:37which he wore as Shylock
0:43:37 > 0:43:40to make his face look different
0:43:41 > 0:43:44Gradually, I got him to make him play it simpler
0:43:44 > 0:43:47like a businessman who happened to be Jewish,
0:43:47 > 0:43:52so I didn't have the heart to say "Come on, Larry, give up the teeth."
0:43:53 > 0:43:56'Hath not a Jew... eyes?'
0:43:57 > 0:44:00'Hath not a Jew hands?'
0:44:00 > 0:44:03Organs? Dimensions?
0:44:03 > 0:44:05Senses?
0:44:05 > 0:44:09'He was, in fact, suffering from memory loss at that time
0:44:09 > 0:44:14'he had moments when he did lose the various things which a Jew hath '
0:44:14 > 0:44:18"Hath not a Jew eyes?" and then he forgot the rest of the speech,
0:44:18 > 0:44:21improvised and said "Hath not a Jew eyes?"
0:44:21 > 0:44:24"Hath not a Jew...
0:44:24 > 0:44:27"..elbows?"!
0:44:28 > 0:44:32He was coming back after quite a long absence
0:44:32 > 0:44:35and he was very, very frightened
0:44:35 > 0:44:39and I remember Jonathan coming into my dressing room
0:44:39 > 0:44:43and saying "What shall I do? He doesn't seem ready to go on stage,
0:44:43 > 0:44:46"in fact he says very shortly he's going to go out of the stage door
0:44:46 > 0:44:49"and get on the first bus. Can you help?"
0:44:49 > 0:44:54'And I said "No, I shall probably go and get on the bus with him. '
0:44:56 > 0:45:00The first and last verses of The Red Flag.
0:45:00 > 0:45:02ORGAN INTRODUCTION
0:45:02 > 0:45:05# The people's flag...
0:45:05 > 0:45:07'Harold Wilson's Labour government
0:45:07 > 0:45:12'had allocated ?7.5 million for the new National Theatre building -
0:45:12 > 0:45:14'one of its last grand gestures
0:45:14 > 0:45:18'before being voted out of office in 1970.'
0:45:18 > 0:45:23The National Theatre is your flag flying high,
0:45:23 > 0:45:26the ambition of every great producer and actor
0:45:26 > 0:45:28to be performing in this theatre.
0:45:32 > 0:45:35'Naturally, we're entitled to thank Sir Laurence Olivier
0:45:35 > 0:45:38'for his wonderful work
0:45:38 > 0:45:41'and he'd be the first to say that he wants the work that he has begun
0:45:41 > 0:45:45'carried forward indefinitely into the future.'
0:45:45 > 0:45:48Wouldn't you have liked to see it years earlier at a reduced cost
0:45:48 > 0:45:52Of course I would, but don't hold me responsible for that.
0:45:57 > 0:46:01'The question of whom might take over from Olivier as director
0:46:01 > 0:46:03'was beginning to be asked,
0:46:03 > 0:46:08'but he had made no provision for appointing a successor.'
0:46:08 > 0:46:11My recent illness, there's been a lot of guesswork going on
0:46:11 > 0:46:14about when I'll retire and who's going to take over -
0:46:14 > 0:46:18I assure you that if anybody wants to take over
0:46:18 > 0:46:22or if anybody has thought to have more the qualities necessary
0:46:22 > 0:46:26to take over, I would be the happiest man in the world
0:46:26 > 0:46:28and to welcome them absolutely
0:46:28 > 0:46:32with the heartiest and sincerest of welcomes.
0:46:33 > 0:46:37I don't think Olivier thought
0:46:37 > 0:46:40anybody could do better than him...
0:46:41 > 0:46:45..and therefore he thought he was kind of impregnable.
0:46:48 > 0:46:52'The National, having got off to an amazing start,
0:46:52 > 0:46:55'inevitably, as all theatres must,
0:46:55 > 0:46:57'began to dip.'
0:46:57 > 0:47:01It was no longer new, it was spending a lot of money
0:47:01 > 0:47:05the shows didn't attract audiences, there was criticism in the press
0:47:05 > 0:47:08and Olivier had been very sick
0:47:08 > 0:47:12'We went to watch them and I tried to get a few words
0:47:12 > 0:47:16'with one of the co-stars Laurence Olivier, but he needed persuading.'
0:47:16 > 0:47:18It's an invasion of privacy!
0:47:18 > 0:47:23He knew well that he would have to have a successor chosen soon,
0:47:23 > 0:47:26but he wanted to choose it himself.
0:47:27 > 0:47:32'It was not... pleasantly done.
0:47:36 > 0:47:40'Peter Hall is the managing director of the Royal Shakespeare Company.'
0:47:40 > 0:47:43'It has two theatres - London's Aldwych and this one in Stratford,
0:47:43 > 0:47:48'which is the centre of operations, and we did most of the filming here
0:47:48 > 0:47:51'at the time when Peter Hall was beginning to rehearse Macbeth.'
0:47:53 > 0:47:55'Without consulting Olivier himself,
0:47:55 > 0:48:00'the board of the National began to look for a successor as director.'
0:48:00 > 0:48:03'The obvious candidate was Peter Hall,
0:48:03 > 0:48:06'the hugely successful founder of the National's main rival,
0:48:06 > 0:48:09'the Royal Shakespeare Company.
0:48:09 > 0:48:14I want to put certain ideas into your heads...
0:48:15 > 0:48:18..about my feeling about the play
0:48:18 > 0:48:22so that you will know from what basis
0:48:22 > 0:48:25I am selecting what happens.
0:48:27 > 0:48:31English theatre at that time came from two distinct strains
0:48:31 > 0:48:34it came from Guthrie,
0:48:34 > 0:48:37the Old Vic, the great actor knights -
0:48:37 > 0:48:40that kind of performance-based theatre -
0:48:40 > 0:48:43and the Peter Hall theatre,
0:48:43 > 0:48:46which was rooted very much in academia
0:48:46 > 0:48:48and in all sorts of orthodoxes
0:48:48 > 0:48:51that I was very sceptical about
0:48:51 > 0:48:56and the whole cult of the director, which was at its height then.
0:48:56 > 0:49:01Ken used to describe the Royal Shakespeare Company as Roundheads
0:49:01 > 0:49:03and the National as Cavaliers
0:49:03 > 0:49:06and you like them according to taste -
0:49:06 > 0:49:10I was on the side of the Cavaliers, I suppose.
0:49:10 > 0:49:13'There is, for better or worse
0:49:13 > 0:49:16'a way in which we do plays.'
0:49:16 > 0:49:19When I first came to work here as a freelance director,
0:49:19 > 0:49:23you didn't talk to actors about their text.
0:49:23 > 0:49:27I mean, it was an infringement on their technique,
0:49:27 > 0:49:30they knew their job. Of course, they didn't.
0:49:35 > 0:49:37There were rumours
0:49:37 > 0:49:41that Peter Hall had already been asked
0:49:41 > 0:49:45while Larry was suggesting people.
0:49:46 > 0:49:51They didn't keep me in their midst - I don't know why -
0:49:51 > 0:49:54they didn't want me around when they made the final choice
0:49:54 > 0:49:57Of course, I suppose
0:49:57 > 0:50:00they had this big, big idea of Peter Hall all the time -
0:50:00 > 0:50:06it never occurred to me. To me Peter Hall was a friendly enemy
0:50:06 > 0:50:09a friendly rival, I should say
0:50:11 > 0:50:16Yes, it's when we get a "Look out, this is going to be rrr!" -
0:50:16 > 0:50:21that's what we don't want because we've had that.
0:50:23 > 0:50:27All I mean is that you're trying to convince him to do it.
0:50:28 > 0:50:32I remember vividly when Lord Rayne and Lord Goodman
0:50:32 > 0:50:35asked me, off the record,
0:50:35 > 0:50:39if I would run as... the new director
0:50:39 > 0:50:44when Lord Olivier... gave up.
0:50:46 > 0:50:51It was a job I certainly didn't want and I'm not being precious about it,
0:50:51 > 0:50:55because obviously it was going to be hell, which it was.
0:51:01 > 0:51:06'Olivier made no secret of the fact that he felt he had been ignored
0:51:06 > 0:51:09'and even betrayed by his own board.'
0:51:11 > 0:51:14I think it was treachery in the highest order,
0:51:14 > 0:51:17it involved so many people,
0:51:17 > 0:51:19and I think they were concerned
0:51:19 > 0:51:23that Tynan would start a rearguard action
0:51:23 > 0:51:27and... there would be a huge uproar,...
0:51:28 > 0:51:33..which there still was, but it had been done by then
0:51:33 > 0:51:37and Larry had had to just swallow it
0:51:37 > 0:51:39and say
0:51:39 > 0:51:44"Well, Peter Hall is a perfectly respectable director,
0:51:44 > 0:51:47"I'll behave properly."
0:51:48 > 0:51:52I have the greatest pride in the fact
0:51:52 > 0:51:56that my successor is a man of such enormous talent
0:51:56 > 0:51:58as Peter Hall.
0:51:58 > 0:52:00APPLAUSE
0:52:05 > 0:52:10I gladly face not having an acre of land to my name,
0:52:10 > 0:52:12nor a penny in the bank -
0:52:12 > 0:52:16I'd be willing to have no home but the poorhouse in my old age
0:52:16 > 0:52:18if I could look back now
0:52:18 > 0:52:21on having been
0:52:21 > 0:52:24the fine artist...
0:52:25 > 0:52:27..I might've been.
0:52:32 > 0:52:36We had one flop after another. We had it running a debt of ?100,0 0,
0:52:36 > 0:52:39which, at that time, was a lot of money.
0:52:39 > 0:52:43The sure way of getting people to come to the theatre
0:52:43 > 0:52:45was to put Olivier on stage.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49In rehearsals,
0:52:49 > 0:52:52Michael was hugely aware that, on this occasion,
0:52:52 > 0:52:55really, it did need to be a big success.
0:52:56 > 0:53:00'And with Sir Laurence himself he said
0:53:00 > 0:53:04'"I don't need to tell him what the scene's about or how to act
0:53:04 > 0:53:08'"but just got to control him and make him feel all right",
0:53:08 > 0:53:11'which wasn't always easy
0:53:11 > 0:53:14'in that he was, by then,
0:53:14 > 0:53:18'endearingly and sometimes frighteningly vulnerable.'
0:53:20 > 0:53:23The first night I played Othello,
0:53:23 > 0:53:26HE said
0:53:26 > 0:53:29to our manager...
0:53:30 > 0:53:32"That young man
0:53:32 > 0:53:34"is playing Othello
0:53:34 > 0:53:38"better than I ever did."
0:53:40 > 0:53:43And he had one of the great triumphs of his career
0:53:43 > 0:53:46and we played to capacity
0:53:46 > 0:53:48and then had hit after hit after hit
0:53:48 > 0:53:52and, within six months, we were back in the black.
0:53:58 > 0:54:01'Everybody had said he was over
0:54:01 > 0:54:04'and unexpectedly, certainly from the board's point of view
0:54:04 > 0:54:07'back came this man at full throttle.'
0:54:07 > 0:54:09'It was exciting
0:54:09 > 0:54:14'and the wonderfully, almost perverse, turn in his career
0:54:14 > 0:54:16'that he could manage.'
0:54:16 > 0:54:20The ceremony that you are about to take part in
0:54:20 > 0:54:23and to which I am happy to welcome you
0:54:23 > 0:54:25is a thoroughly pagan matter.
0:54:25 > 0:54:29It is an understatement when I say to you
0:54:29 > 0:54:31that I am very happy
0:54:31 > 0:54:34to be here today.
0:54:40 > 0:54:42'Eventually, in 1973,
0:54:42 > 0:54:46'Peter Hall took over as director of the National
0:54:46 > 0:54:49'and Olivier gave a final performance
0:54:49 > 0:54:52'before retiring from the theatre altogether.'
0:54:53 > 0:54:57Next Thursday at the National Theatre, starring Lord Olivier
0:54:57 > 0:54:59there's a play I have commissioned
0:54:59 > 0:55:02called The Party by Trevor Griffiths,
0:55:02 > 0:55:04which is about the possibility
0:55:04 > 0:55:07of socialist revolution in this country -
0:55:07 > 0:55:11one of the most mature plays about English politics that I know of
0:55:11 > 0:55:15We have the production box for The Party,
0:55:15 > 0:55:19Olivier's last performance for the National Theatre as John Tagg,
0:55:19 > 0:55:21a Marxist trade unionist.
0:55:21 > 0:55:25He did the most extraordinary thing in that play -
0:55:25 > 0:55:28at the curtain call,
0:55:28 > 0:55:31Peter Hall came on
0:55:31 > 0:55:33to shake his hand
0:55:33 > 0:55:36and Larry looked very startled when he saw him,
0:55:36 > 0:55:40but he still went ahead with what he was going to do,
0:55:40 > 0:55:42which was his farewell ritual.
0:55:42 > 0:55:46He actually knelt down and kissed the stage.
0:55:47 > 0:55:51And that was HIS farewell.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53'He was kissing his mistress..
0:55:53 > 0:55:55'goodbye.'
0:56:04 > 0:56:06'My story being done.'
0:56:06 > 0:56:08'She gave me for my pains
0:56:08 > 0:56:11'a world of sighs.'
0:56:11 > 0:56:16'She swore, in faith, 'twas strange, 'twas passing strange,
0:56:16 > 0:56:21''Twas pitiful, 'twas wondrous pitiful.'
0:56:21 > 0:56:23'She wished she had not heard it,
0:56:23 > 0:56:26'yet she wished
0:56:26 > 0:56:29'heaven had made her
0:56:29 > 0:56:31'such a man.'
0:56:39 > 0:56:41'For a while,
0:56:41 > 0:56:46'it was one of the best companies in the world.'
0:56:46 > 0:56:48'It seemed like
0:56:48 > 0:56:51'a very privileged lot of people.'
0:56:51 > 0:56:56Indeed we were and indeed it had wonderful results.
0:56:56 > 0:56:59But when you move
0:56:59 > 0:57:02from that Old Vic special place
0:57:02 > 0:57:06to a big, modern complex with three theatres,
0:57:06 > 0:57:10the National Theatre now has to be open to all comers
0:57:10 > 0:57:14and though there will be actors and of course directors...
0:57:15 > 0:57:18..who keep coming back,
0:57:18 > 0:57:21there is not a permanent company any more
0:57:21 > 0:57:24and nor could there be.
0:57:26 > 0:57:30'When you were first asked to be director of the National Theatre,
0:57:30 > 0:57:34'was this your first thought - to create that sort of company?
0:57:35 > 0:57:37Forming a company, helping it along,
0:57:37 > 0:57:39serving it,
0:57:39 > 0:57:41leading it, if you like -
0:57:41 > 0:57:44not necessarily so.
0:57:44 > 0:57:46That's the most exciting thing
0:57:46 > 0:57:48I think a man can do.
0:57:48 > 0:57:50'Soft you,
0:57:50 > 0:57:52'a word or two before you go.'
0:57:53 > 0:57:56'I have done the state some service
0:57:56 > 0:57:59'and they know it.'
0:58:00 > 0:58:02'No more of that.'
0:58:02 > 0:58:05'I pray you,
0:58:05 > 0:58:07'in your letters,
0:58:07 > 0:58:12'when you shall these unlucky deeds relate,
0:58:12 > 0:58:14'speak of them as they are.'
0:58:14 > 0:58:17'Nothing extenuate,
0:58:17 > 0:58:20'nor set down aught in malice.
0:58:21 > 0:58:24'Then must you speak
0:58:24 > 0:58:27'of one that loved not wisely,
0:58:27 > 0:58:30'but too well.'
0:58:30 > 0:58:32What do we want?!
0:58:32 > 0:58:38'In part two - the National's move into Denys Lasdun's new building
0:58:38 > 0:58:40'proves fraught with dangers
0:58:40 > 0:58:42'and Peter Hall faces battles
0:58:42 > 0:58:45'that are even harder to win than Laurence Olivier's.'
0:58:46 > 0:58:51It's only in retrospect that one can say it was OK -
0:58:51 > 0:58:54damn nearly wasn't.
0:58:54 > 0:58:57'That was the thing that all of us were frightened of -
0:58:57 > 0:59:00'that it would actually just be stopped,
0:59:00 > 0:59:05'we wouldn't have enough money, the board would resign, that'd be it.'