0:00:10 > 0:00:13The 20th century, according to Sigmund Freud,
0:00:13 > 0:00:17would see man's capacity for both destruction and technology
0:00:17 > 0:00:20bring us close to extinction.
0:00:23 > 0:00:27As his prophecy came close to reality,
0:00:27 > 0:00:29a new breed of thinker emerged
0:00:29 > 0:00:33who would try to steer humanity away from disaster.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43What is there is human nature that allows an individual to act
0:00:43 > 0:00:45without any restraints whatsoever?
0:00:47 > 0:00:50In this series, we'll dig deep into the BBC's archive
0:00:50 > 0:00:55to look at how thinkers used broadcasting to fight for humanity.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03And we begin with those scientists and psychologists
0:01:03 > 0:01:06who put human nature itself under the microscope.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13The only real danger that exists is man himself.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16- BUZZER SOUNDS - Incorrect.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19They would strip bare our subconscious...
0:01:19 > 0:01:21LOUD SCREAM
0:01:23 > 0:01:26..revolutionise the way we bring up our children...
0:01:26 > 0:01:29Lucy knows Linus, doesn't she?
0:01:29 > 0:01:32..look to other cultures for guidance...
0:01:32 > 0:01:35You studied the tools people used, the lullabies they sang...
0:01:37 > 0:01:41..all in the hope of building a better future.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45It isn't enough to bring up our children happy
0:01:45 > 0:01:48and secure - you've got to have a decent world for them.
0:02:13 > 0:02:18In 1938, as Europe stood on the brink of war,
0:02:18 > 0:02:21a refugee from Nazi-occupied Austria
0:02:21 > 0:02:24arrived in the leafy suburbs of Hampstead.
0:02:27 > 0:02:32Already viewed as one of the greatest thinkers of the 20th century,
0:02:32 > 0:02:36he had spent decades looking into the secrets of the human mind.
0:02:38 > 0:02:42His name was Sigmund Freud.
0:02:44 > 0:02:49Before Freud, humans had been seen as logical, intellectual beings.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55But Freud saw an irrational side to humanity,
0:02:55 > 0:02:58which he was determined to put on the couch.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06He believed each of us has a powerful unconscious,
0:03:06 > 0:03:08shaped in our childhoods,
0:03:08 > 0:03:10manifest in our dreams
0:03:10 > 0:03:13and ruled by sexual motivations.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17Freud made it quite clear
0:03:17 > 0:03:20that man was not master in his own home.
0:03:20 > 0:03:25He was always at the sway of these instinctual forces,
0:03:25 > 0:03:31these desires, wishes and unruly aggressions
0:03:31 > 0:03:35which toppled him because they were unconscious.
0:03:36 > 0:03:42I think Freud revolutionised the way we think about being human.
0:03:42 > 0:03:47We think of ourselves now as having an unconscious.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49We think that our dreams have meaning,
0:03:49 > 0:03:52we think that our childhoods are terribly important
0:03:52 > 0:03:57and how we care for children is therefore much more important than we ever did before.
0:03:57 > 0:04:02These are huge changes in the way we see things.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05Nobody in the world of psychology has had a bigger effect.
0:04:09 > 0:04:14In December 1938, a BBC radio crew visited Freud
0:04:14 > 0:04:16and captured an interview with him
0:04:16 > 0:04:19just months before he succumbed to throat cancer.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28In this, the only voice recording of Freud ever made,
0:04:28 > 0:04:32he modestly describes his achievements.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18These were the early days of home movie making,
0:05:18 > 0:05:23and this family film is the only moving footage of Freud that exists.
0:05:30 > 0:05:34The movies show Freud relaxing with his family,
0:05:34 > 0:05:38but towards the end of his life, he grew increasingly concerned
0:05:38 > 0:05:40about the troubles in society.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44Over the course of his career,
0:05:44 > 0:05:47he built his theories into an all-encompassing work.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52The idea in Civilization And Its Discontents
0:05:52 > 0:05:56was that the sexual repression of individuals in the Western world
0:05:56 > 0:05:59would lead to the collapse of our society.
0:06:46 > 0:06:51Freud died in the month that the Second World War began.
0:06:53 > 0:06:58This war saw humanity sink to its lowest levels of violence and destruction.
0:07:00 > 0:07:05Freud's warnings had done nothing to avert the catastrophe.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08One man was convinced he knew where Freud had got it wrong.
0:07:18 > 0:07:23Carl Gustav Jung was a Swiss psychiatrist 20 years Freud's junior.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26Although they would go on to have a bitter break-up,
0:07:26 > 0:07:31their relationship began with mutual admiration.
0:07:34 > 0:07:39In 1959, Jung was interviewed at his home on the shores of Lake Zurich
0:07:39 > 0:07:44by John Freeman for the BBC's legendary Face To Face programme.
0:07:44 > 0:07:46He described his initial meeting with Freud
0:07:46 > 0:07:48and their subsequent relationship.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54I went to Vienna for a fortnight
0:07:54 > 0:07:58and then we had a very...
0:07:59 > 0:08:02..long and penetrating conversations
0:08:02 > 0:08:05and that settled it.
0:08:05 > 0:08:10And this long and penetrating conversation was followed by personal friendship.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13Oh, yes. It soon developed into personal friendship.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15What sort of man was Freud?
0:08:15 > 0:08:16I liked him very much
0:08:16 > 0:08:20but I soon discovered that
0:08:20 > 0:08:23when he had thought something,
0:08:23 > 0:08:24then it was settled...
0:08:24 > 0:08:27while I was doubting all along the line.
0:08:28 > 0:08:29And...
0:08:29 > 0:08:35it was impossible to discuss something really full.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39So from the very beginning,
0:08:39 > 0:08:41there was a discrepancy.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48Revealing though this conversation was,
0:08:48 > 0:08:51Jung had explained more about the break-up with Freud
0:08:51 > 0:08:54in a BBC interview conducted four years earlier.
0:08:56 > 0:09:00For unknown reasons, this footage was shelved,
0:09:00 > 0:09:02and remained buried for decades.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06When you're ready.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08I am all right.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12In it, Jung describes how,
0:09:12 > 0:09:17after five years' collaboration, he split from Freud.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21By 1912, I had acquired a lot of my own experience
0:09:21 > 0:09:24and...
0:09:24 > 0:09:26a great deal of...
0:09:26 > 0:09:29I learned a great deal...
0:09:29 > 0:09:32HAD learned a great deal from Freud
0:09:32 > 0:09:35and then I saw certain things in a different light.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38So you dissociated yourself from Freud.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Well, yes,
0:09:41 > 0:09:46because I couldn't share his opinions or his convictions any more.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57Whilst working at the Burgholzli mental hospital in Zurich,
0:09:57 > 0:10:00Jung had formulated his own ideas.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06He believed that each of us has an individual destiny
0:10:06 > 0:10:10which we can achieve through a process of individuation.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Individuation is very much about how we become the whole self,
0:10:16 > 0:10:20so it's about the integration of the conscious and the unconscious
0:10:20 > 0:10:22and how we manage that, to be us.
0:10:28 > 0:10:33As each plant, each tree, grows from a seed and becomes in the end,
0:10:33 > 0:10:35say, an oak tree,
0:10:35 > 0:10:39so man becomes what he is meant to be,
0:10:39 > 0:10:41at least he ought to get there.
0:10:41 > 0:10:49But most get stuck by unfavourable external conditions,
0:10:49 > 0:10:54by all sorts of hindrances,
0:10:54 > 0:10:58or pathological distortions, wrong education.
0:10:58 > 0:11:04No end of reasons why one shouldn't get there, where one belongs.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07FADES
0:11:09 > 0:11:12For individuation not to occur,
0:11:12 > 0:11:14in a way that's successful for the individual,
0:11:14 > 0:11:17would be then why that individual may go on to have
0:11:17 > 0:11:21emotional psychological mental health problems, may need therapy,
0:11:21 > 0:11:23and the task of therapy to some degree
0:11:23 > 0:11:25is to help that person individuate.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33In order to reach our full potential
0:11:33 > 0:11:36Jung believed each of us must face up to our own dark side.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42An unconscious element of weakness and evil.
0:11:46 > 0:11:51The only real danger that exists is man himself.
0:11:53 > 0:11:58He is the great danger and we are pitifully unaware of it.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01We know nothing of man.
0:12:01 > 0:12:02Far too little.
0:12:04 > 0:12:11His psyche should be studied because we are the origin of all coming evil.
0:12:17 > 0:12:22Whilst Jung thought that to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past
0:12:22 > 0:12:25we must recognise the evil in each individual,
0:12:25 > 0:12:28another thinker would go on to find wickedness,
0:12:28 > 0:12:32not in the individual, but in the very structure of society.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39Stanley Milgram was born in New York to Jewish parents
0:12:39 > 0:12:42who had emigrated from Eastern Europe in the '20s.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47In his childhood he was deeply affected
0:12:47 > 0:12:50by the plight of European Jews.
0:12:50 > 0:12:54Later, as a professor of psychology at Yale University,
0:12:54 > 0:12:57he began to ask unprecedented questions
0:12:57 > 0:13:00about the human capacity for cruelty.
0:13:05 > 0:13:09He brought these questions to the attention of the British public
0:13:09 > 0:13:12when he presented a BBC Horizon programme about his work.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20In 1944, in the town of Oradour in France,
0:13:20 > 0:13:24all the residents of the town were taken into the village church.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26The church was doused with gasoline.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29It was ignited and everyone was killed.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32Another tragedy, you say, another newspaper headline.
0:13:32 > 0:13:34But it's more than that, isn't it?
0:13:34 > 0:13:38They were real people who actually carried the gasoline to the church.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41A real person ignited it.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45What is there in human nature that allows an individual to act
0:13:45 > 0:13:48without any restraints whatsoever?
0:13:48 > 0:13:52So that he can act inhumanely, harshly, severely,
0:13:52 > 0:13:56and in no way limited by feelings of compassion or conscience.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58These are questions that concern me.
0:14:05 > 0:14:10Milgram wanted to know if there was something uniquely wicked about the Nazis.
0:14:16 > 0:14:21In the early '60s, he devised a cunning experiment to find out.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24He planned to conduct the experiment in Germany,
0:14:24 > 0:14:28but first he recruited some ordinary Americans to test it out.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31When they got there they were told
0:14:31 > 0:14:33it was an experiment on memory and learning.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36They were paired up and told one would be the teacher,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38and one would be the learner.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44Would you open those and tell me which of you is which, please.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46Teacher.
0:14:46 > 0:14:47Learner.
0:14:48 > 0:14:53As this original footage shows, the learner was left in a separate room.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59The teacher was then asked to test them on a memory game.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02If the learner made an error,
0:15:02 > 0:15:04an experimenter told the teacher to punish them.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09There was this great big bank of electric shock sizes,
0:15:09 > 0:15:13going from 15 volts right up to 450 volts and it said "danger" on that,
0:15:13 > 0:15:15and the idea was that they were told,
0:15:15 > 0:15:17as they taught them, if they carried on getting it wrong,
0:15:17 > 0:15:20they should go higher and higher up the scale.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22N.
0:15:22 > 0:15:23White.
0:15:23 > 0:15:24Cloud.
0:15:24 > 0:15:25Horse.
0:15:25 > 0:15:30The electric shocks were fake but the teacher didn't know that.
0:15:30 > 0:15:31Wrong.
0:15:32 > 0:15:33150 volts.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37- Answer, horse. - Ow! >
0:15:37 > 0:15:41The point was to find out how far people would go before turning
0:15:41 > 0:15:44to the experimenter and refusing to deliver any more shocks.
0:15:44 > 0:15:45Let me out of here, please! >
0:15:45 > 0:15:46< Continue, please.
0:15:46 > 0:15:48I refuse to carry on, let me out. >
0:15:48 > 0:15:52I wanted to know how people thought they would behave in this situation
0:15:52 > 0:15:55so I asked them to predict their own performance.
0:15:55 > 0:15:57When people are asked to do this,
0:15:57 > 0:16:00they give a rather consistent answer.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04I'd like to believe that, as soon as I felt the person was in pain,
0:16:04 > 0:16:07that I would probably stop.
0:16:07 > 0:16:09I don't think I could go to the end.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11Why not?
0:16:11 > 0:16:13It's another man, and I wouldn't want it done to me.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16I'd go to 180, but no higher.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18I'd definitely walk out after 180.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20- I'd like to think I wouldn't do it. - Why not?
0:16:20 > 0:16:22You've got a choice in life to do whatever...
0:16:22 > 0:16:25You can't have people telling you what you can and can't do
0:16:25 > 0:16:27when it comes to something that vital.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30But I am not interested in opinions.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33I'm interested in how people actually behave.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38Milgram's results would stun the scientific community.
0:16:38 > 0:16:40435 volts.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42It says danger, severe shock here.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44< Continue, please.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47All right, 435 volts.
0:16:48 > 0:16:52Next one. Brain, woman, soldier, dog, horse.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56Answer is woman.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58450 volts.
0:16:58 > 0:16:59That's it.
0:17:02 > 0:17:06What was amazing was that 65% of people who took part
0:17:06 > 0:17:11did go all the way and do the 450 volt electric shock,
0:17:11 > 0:17:13even though it said "danger".
0:17:20 > 0:17:22So conclusive were his results
0:17:22 > 0:17:27that Milgram never bothered to take his experiment to Germany.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31He had found a key to some of the evil in human nature.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38The main thing is that the person does not see himself
0:17:38 > 0:17:40as responsible for his own actions.
0:17:40 > 0:17:45He sees himself as an agent executing the wishes of another person.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48We saw in the experiment how frequently subjects
0:17:48 > 0:17:51turned to the experimenter saying, "Am I responsible?"
0:17:51 > 0:17:55And as soon as he told them they were not, they could proceed more easily.
0:17:56 > 0:17:58What have I learned from my investigations?
0:17:58 > 0:18:03It doesn't take an evil person to serve an evil system.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07Ordinary people are easily integrated into malevolent systems.
0:18:14 > 0:18:18The idea that most of us are capable of performing acts of cruelty,
0:18:18 > 0:18:21simply because someone tells us to,
0:18:21 > 0:18:25has forced us to ask key questions about how we structure society.
0:18:36 > 0:18:41In Britain, a radical Glaswegian psychoanalyst, R D Laing,
0:18:41 > 0:18:43was using television to speak out
0:18:43 > 0:18:46about his views on the sickness in society.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51Their realities are different, yes.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57Laing's experiences in the psychiatric profession
0:18:57 > 0:19:03led him to believe that the word "insanity" was an over-used and abused term,
0:19:03 > 0:19:05often given to individuals
0:19:05 > 0:19:08who simply didn't conform to the expectations of society.
0:19:17 > 0:19:21Such people sometimes became inmates of mental hospitals.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23As film from the time shows,
0:19:23 > 0:19:28psychiatric patients could be subjected to brutal treatments.
0:19:35 > 0:19:39Psychiatry is a very violent branch of medicine indeed.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43Even in the text books,
0:19:43 > 0:19:47treatment might be characterised as non-injurious torture.
0:19:47 > 0:19:53Treatment was very seldom pleasant.
0:19:53 > 0:20:00It usually involved inflicting a lot of pain on people
0:20:00 > 0:20:07in the hope that this would get them to stop going on the way they are.
0:20:12 > 0:20:17In those days ECT was quite common, straightjackets,
0:20:17 > 0:20:22padded cells, early tranquilisers.
0:20:22 > 0:20:28It's what people used to call "grug 'em, flug 'em, easy does 'em".
0:20:28 > 0:20:31And leucotomies and lobotomies,
0:20:31 > 0:20:34and so the whole range of treatments
0:20:34 > 0:20:37which he thought were absolutely, totally barbaric.
0:20:41 > 0:20:46Laing was a popular and persuasive lecturer who insisted that doctors
0:20:46 > 0:20:49should listen to their patients instead of abusing them.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53He believed that much of what we call "insane behaviour"
0:20:53 > 0:20:58could be explained by family circumstances and life experiences.
0:21:00 > 0:21:04To illustrate this, he cited the case of a 13-year-old girl
0:21:04 > 0:21:08who had been diagnosed as schizophrenic.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17Her mother was frightened that she was slipping away from her
0:21:17 > 0:21:22because she had taken to spending two or three hours every so often,
0:21:22 > 0:21:30not every day, but every other day, in her room alone
0:21:30 > 0:21:37staring apparently at the wall
0:21:37 > 0:21:39and not saying anything.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44It's certainly one of the best ways that I can think of,
0:21:44 > 0:21:47it might have been the only way that she came across
0:21:47 > 0:21:49of getting out or in or away from,
0:21:49 > 0:21:51for two or three hours,
0:21:51 > 0:21:55her family scene when she wasn't allowed to go out.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58Even at the height of her staring, she was staring at the wall
0:21:58 > 0:22:02much less than her parents were staring at the television set.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04LAUGHTER
0:22:07 > 0:22:09Her mother was so alarmed
0:22:09 > 0:22:13that she was slipping away from her that she arranged,
0:22:13 > 0:22:15I mean, it was an arrangement that she made
0:22:15 > 0:22:17with the psychiatric facilities,
0:22:17 > 0:22:21that they would take her away and put her away.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27Are you telling us that she's not sick?
0:22:32 > 0:22:36In order to answer that question I would have to start again
0:22:36 > 0:22:43and ramble on for another hour to convey that that word...
0:22:43 > 0:22:49there are some words that in relationship to such people,
0:22:49 > 0:22:54like sickness and madness and psychosis and neurosis,
0:22:54 > 0:23:00have become in my mind so confused in their uses that I would prefer
0:23:00 > 0:23:03to withdraw them from the currency of my own discourse.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07I don't want to apply that attribution to that girl.
0:23:07 > 0:23:09APPLAUSE
0:23:15 > 0:23:19He was part of a movement that were trying to say, look,
0:23:19 > 0:23:22schizophrenia is a label, it is a stigmatising label,
0:23:22 > 0:23:24and if you slap this label on people,
0:23:24 > 0:23:27you have a self-fulfilling prophecy.
0:23:27 > 0:23:29You can actually drive people crazy
0:23:29 > 0:23:32by treating them as if they're schizophrenic, if they're not.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40At the height of his powers, Laing was feted as a visionary,
0:23:40 > 0:23:46but in later life it seemed he began to struggle with his own dark side.
0:23:46 > 0:23:50Accusations of drunkenness and womanising began to eclipse his work.
0:23:54 > 0:23:58Though he had written about the dangers of uncaring families,
0:23:58 > 0:24:02he himself had neglected his first family, leaving them in poverty.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08It's not an unfair stance to take to say to him, "Wait a minute,
0:24:08 > 0:24:13"you've written a book that seeks to tie in, on a very subtle level,
0:24:13 > 0:24:18schizophrenic behaviour of individuals to the family
0:24:18 > 0:24:22so it seems a bit rich coming from somebody who is perceived
0:24:22 > 0:24:25to have treated his families in the way that he did,
0:24:25 > 0:24:30and I think he has to take that on the chin.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32But we went through that
0:24:32 > 0:24:36and so I don't have any sort of great personal grudge against him
0:24:36 > 0:24:39because I dealt with it with him when he was alive.
0:24:44 > 0:24:47It's irrelevant, frankly, as far as I'm concerned,
0:24:47 > 0:24:51that Laing was in some respects a disturbed individual himself.
0:24:52 > 0:24:54It's just not the point.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57The point is he wrote those books, and certainly
0:24:57 > 0:24:59what we all take for granted now,
0:24:59 > 0:25:04the abolition largely of psychiatric care in mental hospitals,
0:25:04 > 0:25:08the acceptance of the idea that we must be very, very careful
0:25:08 > 0:25:11about stigmatising or labelling people these are...
0:25:11 > 0:25:16A big part of that change was with R D Laing's writings.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25Across the Atlantic, amidst the turmoil of the 1960s,
0:25:25 > 0:25:29a group of thinkers came onto the scene who believed
0:25:29 > 0:25:33that society could be cured and that human behaviour could be improved.
0:25:35 > 0:25:39One of these was anthropologist Margaret Mead.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44Mead a was huge media figure in the '60s,
0:25:44 > 0:25:47using television to promote her ideas.
0:25:50 > 0:25:54But she had begun her research into behaviour 40 years earlier
0:25:54 > 0:25:59when the study of human cultures was in its infancy.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07The word "culture" in the anthropological sense
0:26:07 > 0:26:09was hardly known then.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11The new anthropological sense
0:26:11 > 0:26:15was that you studied the whole shared learned behaviour
0:26:15 > 0:26:19of a group of people and you called it "the culture".
0:26:19 > 0:26:23The tools people used, the lullabies they sang to their babies,
0:26:23 > 0:26:25the way they built houses and buried their dead,
0:26:25 > 0:26:30and their religious beliefs were all part of their culture.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38Like Laing, Mead suspected that Western anxieties
0:26:38 > 0:26:42and problems were caused by the values of our society.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45To explore this,
0:26:45 > 0:26:50Mead decided to study the turbulent period of adolescence.
0:26:50 > 0:26:54She travelled to the most remote place she could find, Samoa.
0:26:56 > 0:26:58What Mead was interested in is
0:26:58 > 0:26:59is it is always true
0:26:59 > 0:27:03that adolescence is a period of turmoil in people's lives?
0:27:03 > 0:27:05Does every society have young people
0:27:05 > 0:27:09who behave badly or who are not controllable,
0:27:09 > 0:27:11or should we always be worrying about adolescence?
0:27:11 > 0:27:15So she went and talked to lots of young people,
0:27:15 > 0:27:17particularly young girls,
0:27:17 > 0:27:20and got them to talk about what they were feeling,
0:27:20 > 0:27:22what they were experiencing,
0:27:22 > 0:27:27what they were hoping for, and how they saw Samoan culture and society.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37After observing these young girls,
0:27:37 > 0:27:39Mead concluded that Samoan adolescents
0:27:39 > 0:27:43did not seem to suffer the same angst as American youngsters,
0:27:43 > 0:27:48as she later explained on the BBC's Horizon programme.
0:27:49 > 0:27:53They were not asked to work very hard yet, or make any choices.
0:27:53 > 0:27:57They were allowed to pick their lovers fairly freely.
0:27:57 > 0:28:01The Samoan children had peeped through the blinds of houses
0:28:01 > 0:28:03and seen birth
0:28:03 > 0:28:06and they'd watched lovers and they knew what was going on in the world.
0:28:06 > 0:28:10So that most of the things that are hard on adolescents
0:28:10 > 0:28:12in modern society,
0:28:12 > 0:28:15all sorts of conflicts about sex and marriage,
0:28:15 > 0:28:18ignorance about life,
0:28:18 > 0:28:22these things that made it hard for adolescents here weren't there.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32If the confusion and turmoil of adolescence
0:28:32 > 0:28:34were not evident in other cultures,
0:28:34 > 0:28:39then Mead concluded they were not necessary in Western culture either.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43Her description of a Samoan paradise of free love
0:28:43 > 0:28:47fuelled the 1960s sexual revolution in the West.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54By the time she died, she was an American icon and it seemed
0:28:54 > 0:28:59she had answered a key question about how to build a peaceful society.
0:29:06 > 0:29:10But shortly after her death, her theories took a terrible blow.
0:29:12 > 0:29:14A younger anthropologist called Derek Freeman,
0:29:14 > 0:29:20who had also visited Samoa, published a book which challenged her views.
0:29:22 > 0:29:25He got much closer to the people in one sense,
0:29:25 > 0:29:31in that he learnt to speak Samoan much more profoundly,
0:29:31 > 0:29:35much more skilfully than Margaret Mead had done.
0:29:35 > 0:29:40And he was told by one informant, by Margaret Mead's informant,
0:29:40 > 0:29:43a woman, an elderly woman at that stage,
0:29:43 > 0:29:48that they had just told these stories to this curious American lady
0:29:48 > 0:29:52who'd arrived because she clearly enjoyed dirty stories,
0:29:52 > 0:29:54and that it was just for fun.
0:29:55 > 0:29:58Mead had been roundly debunked.
0:29:58 > 0:30:01Though some still think her theories have merit.
0:30:01 > 0:30:05What we feel about the Mead-Freeman controversy now
0:30:05 > 0:30:10is that perhaps Mead had made some errors in her data,
0:30:10 > 0:30:14perhaps she had indeed even been lied to by some of her informants,
0:30:14 > 0:30:18but that essentially her argument is correct
0:30:18 > 0:30:22that the way in which cultures deal with adolescence varies
0:30:22 > 0:30:26and consequently the experience of adolescence itself varies.
0:30:33 > 0:30:38And Mead's work lives on in another great arena of life.
0:30:38 > 0:30:46When she became a mother, Mead chose not to conform to the traditional parenting model of the day,
0:30:46 > 0:30:48which demanded a rigid childcare regime.
0:30:51 > 0:30:56Instead she imitated the easy-going approach used by Samoan mothers.
0:30:58 > 0:31:02She passed these ideas on to her paediatrician,
0:31:02 > 0:31:07little knowing that he would become the world's first ever child care guru.
0:31:08 > 0:31:11His name was Dr Benjamin Spock.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14Later, Spock wrote a book
0:31:14 > 0:31:18which changed forever the way we relate to our children.
0:31:22 > 0:31:25I think what's profoundly important about Spock
0:31:25 > 0:31:27is that he basically said to parents,
0:31:27 > 0:31:30you know more than you think you do.
0:31:30 > 0:31:36He actually empowered parents to be instinctive in their parenting,
0:31:36 > 0:31:40and to feel able to nurture their child in a loving way,
0:31:40 > 0:31:44without worrying that it was going to somehow spoil them or make them
0:31:44 > 0:31:46lack any sort of moral fibre.
0:31:56 > 0:32:00I urged parents not to be intimidated by the rule
0:32:00 > 0:32:04that had existed in paediatrics up to that time,
0:32:04 > 0:32:07you must never feed a baby off schedule,
0:32:07 > 0:32:09not a minute early, not a minute late.
0:32:09 > 0:32:13I was one of the first paediatrician to say that's nonsense.
0:32:13 > 0:32:17That rule made babies cry but it was even harder on mothers.
0:32:17 > 0:32:22They bit their nails in anguish waiting for the clock
0:32:22 > 0:32:25to say this is the minute you can feed.
0:32:29 > 0:32:33With his straight-talking charm, Spock was a natural broadcaster
0:32:33 > 0:32:37and he understood the power of television.
0:32:39 > 0:32:41On the BBC's Tonight programme,
0:32:41 > 0:32:45he explained that the reason his philosophy had caught on
0:32:45 > 0:32:48was because it contradicted the standard childcare guidance.
0:32:51 > 0:32:55The general attitude was, "Look out, stupid!
0:32:55 > 0:32:58"If you don't do exactly what I say you will kill you child."
0:32:58 > 0:33:02You'd be interested that the fan mail I get all is along the same line.
0:33:02 > 0:33:06They all say it sounds as if you were talking to me
0:33:06 > 0:33:09and as if you thought I was a sensible person.
0:33:09 > 0:33:14This makes me almost weep to think that's all parents want,
0:33:14 > 0:33:17to be treated with a little respect and friendliness.
0:33:25 > 0:33:30In later life, Spock turned his attention from paediatrics to politics.
0:33:38 > 0:33:40He fiercely opposed the Vietnam War,
0:33:40 > 0:33:46and in 1968 he was prosecuted for assisting draft dodgers.
0:33:46 > 0:33:50What's the matter with the government and what's the matter with the war
0:33:50 > 0:33:53if they have to go after a 66-year-old paediatrician
0:33:53 > 0:33:55and try to throw him in jail?!
0:34:00 > 0:34:05It isn't enough to bring up our children happy and secure,
0:34:05 > 0:34:08that you've got to have a decent world for them.
0:34:08 > 0:34:11This is why I've expanded my horizon.
0:34:11 > 0:34:13The people who disagree with me politically say,
0:34:13 > 0:34:18"You old goat, why don't you stay in paediatrics where you belong?"
0:34:18 > 0:34:20But the people who are on my side say,
0:34:20 > 0:34:22"I see what you are talking about, I agree with you."
0:34:33 > 0:34:36For Spock's generation, society could be cured
0:34:36 > 0:34:40by improving the way parents brought up their children.
0:34:40 > 0:34:44Ideas like this would be taken to extremes by a contemporary of Spock.
0:34:50 > 0:34:55BF Skinner believed he had found an all-embracing antidote
0:34:55 > 0:34:57to the ills in society.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04I think today we have reached a point where,
0:35:04 > 0:35:07not only can we dream about a better way of life,
0:35:07 > 0:35:09but we can make specific proposals
0:35:09 > 0:35:11and that's where my own work comes in.
0:35:11 > 0:35:14I have been, for 35 years, concerned with behaviour.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23A Pennsylvanian psychologist,
0:35:23 > 0:35:26Skinner was the most radical practitioner of "behaviourism".
0:35:29 > 0:35:33He believed that each person starts out as a blank slate
0:35:33 > 0:35:37and is moulded purely by their environment.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42He began his work, not with humans, but with pigeons.
0:35:45 > 0:35:50He trained them using a system called operant conditioning.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52He could get them to display the behaviour he desired
0:35:52 > 0:35:56by conditioning them to respond to rewards.
0:36:03 > 0:36:05They would peck on the little button
0:36:05 > 0:36:07and, if they pecked the right number of times,
0:36:07 > 0:36:09they would get a reward, i.e. some seed,
0:36:09 > 0:36:12and so they soon learnt that they must peck six times
0:36:12 > 0:36:14and very fast and they'd get the seed.
0:36:14 > 0:36:16They would do that again and again.
0:36:16 > 0:36:18He could train them to do all sorts of things.
0:36:18 > 0:36:20He trained pigeons to play ping pong.
0:36:27 > 0:36:29No wonder then that Skinner thought
0:36:29 > 0:36:32he could also train humans of any age to behave better.
0:36:34 > 0:36:39In the early '70s, Skinner set up an experiment at a youth borstal
0:36:39 > 0:36:41and the BBC followed his progress.
0:36:43 > 0:36:47Here, Skinner describes the inmates at the start of the project.
0:36:51 > 0:36:54'Few of them have had families they've lived with closely.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57'Almost all have dropped out of school with little or no education.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00'Few have held a job for any length of time,
0:37:00 > 0:37:04'and all have violated the law so often or so violently
0:37:04 > 0:37:06'that it has been necessary to lock them up.'
0:37:08 > 0:37:12In the borstal, basic food and accommodation were provided.
0:37:12 > 0:37:16Skinner's master stroke was to introduce a reward system.
0:37:16 > 0:37:20If the youngsters behaved well and attended lessons,
0:37:20 > 0:37:24they could earn points and improve their living conditions.
0:37:24 > 0:37:32Your room was dirty a couple of days, and you went out improperly dressed.
0:37:34 > 0:37:37- See if you can't do better next week. All right?- I'll really try, sir.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40- Try a little harder.- All right.
0:37:40 > 0:37:45'Points could be exchanged for more delicious food at meal times,
0:37:45 > 0:37:46'admission to game rooms,
0:37:46 > 0:37:49'the rental of a private room or television set,
0:37:49 > 0:37:52'or even a short vacation away from the school.
0:37:54 > 0:37:56'The results were dramatic.
0:37:56 > 0:38:01'Boys who had been convinced by the school system they were unteachable discovered that they were not.
0:38:01 > 0:38:05'They learned reading, writing and arithmetic and acquired manual skills.
0:38:05 > 0:38:08'They did so without compulsion.
0:38:08 > 0:38:12'The hostile behaviour characteristic of such institutions quickly disappeared.'
0:38:22 > 0:38:26Skinner's successes were seen as momentous achievements.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34And his work lives on in every child's star chart
0:38:34 > 0:38:37and employee rewards scheme around the world.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43Skinner believed he had found a catch-all explanation
0:38:43 > 0:38:45for every facet of human behaviour.
0:38:47 > 0:38:50But when he turned his attention to language,
0:38:50 > 0:38:54he was to come very publicly unstuck.
0:38:55 > 0:38:57What's that there?
0:38:58 > 0:39:01At this time, many scientists were asking
0:39:01 > 0:39:06where our remarkable ability for learning speech comes from.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08That's a kangaroo.
0:39:09 > 0:39:12Skinner's answer was relatively straightforward.
0:39:12 > 0:39:16He said language is acquired by a system of operant conditioning.
0:39:16 > 0:39:20That is to say, children come into the world and they cannot speak.
0:39:20 > 0:39:23They have no language and they acquire it
0:39:23 > 0:39:25by imitation from their parents,
0:39:25 > 0:39:28and it is reinforced by a system of rewards and punishments.
0:39:28 > 0:39:30The kind of rewards that operate in daily life
0:39:30 > 0:39:34and which parents give them without even knowing that they do so.
0:39:37 > 0:39:43This idea, and it's a persuasive idea, was challenged.
0:39:46 > 0:39:49Linguists of the day thought this was too simplistic
0:39:49 > 0:39:53and that more subtle forces were at work.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56In the early '70s,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59the BBC's Horizon programme decided to settle the debate.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03First the old lady will talk...
0:40:03 > 0:40:07Skinner was asked to sit in on a language experiment
0:40:07 > 0:40:10designed to show that copying and rewards are not enough
0:40:10 > 0:40:13to make young children absorb complex grammar.
0:40:13 > 0:40:18Here an older child is tested to see if she can copy what she has heard.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20So the dragon goes first.
0:40:20 > 0:40:23Lucy knows Linus, doesn't she?
0:40:23 > 0:40:25Lucy knows Linus, doesn't she?
0:40:27 > 0:40:31But in another test a younger child can't do it.
0:40:31 > 0:40:33You say whatever I say.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37Lucy is on the box.
0:40:37 > 0:40:39Lucy is on the box.
0:40:39 > 0:40:43Lucy's being on the box pleases me.
0:40:45 > 0:40:48Lucy's on the box pleases me.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52That Linus is lying down pleases me.
0:40:54 > 0:40:55That Lucy's is...
0:40:56 > 0:40:59That Linus is lying down pleases me.
0:41:01 > 0:41:02Is...
0:41:04 > 0:41:08I'm getting everything mixed up.
0:41:08 > 0:41:12OK. Very good. Very good, dragon. The little boy can fly an airplane.
0:41:12 > 0:41:17It appeared that small children could not copy everything they had heard,
0:41:17 > 0:41:19no matter how rewarding the experience.
0:41:19 > 0:41:21And now the old lady says...
0:41:21 > 0:41:25I am willing to admit that I can not account for
0:41:25 > 0:41:27all the verbal behaviour of a child.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29But I don't feel it's accounted for either
0:41:29 > 0:41:32by inventing some fictional explanation.
0:41:32 > 0:41:35I'm not suggesting you do, I don't think you do.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38The best thing is simply to say there are still areas in which we're ignorant.
0:41:45 > 0:41:47What Skinner seemed to have missed
0:41:47 > 0:41:50was that humans are not simply blank slates.
0:41:52 > 0:41:56Each of us is born with innate qualities which affect our behaviour.
0:41:57 > 0:42:00In the latter part of the 20th century
0:42:00 > 0:42:02a group of British thinkers emerged
0:42:02 > 0:42:06who would offer radical new ideas about what makes humans tick.
0:42:09 > 0:42:13These thinkers would take their cues not from humans,
0:42:13 > 0:42:15but from animals.
0:42:25 > 0:42:29Enter Desmond Morris who started his career as a zoologist.
0:42:30 > 0:42:34But it was through his books and his TV programmes that he became famous.
0:42:35 > 0:42:38What are the chances they won't like each other?
0:42:38 > 0:42:40Very slight, I should think.
0:42:40 > 0:42:44Chi-Chi is extremely sex-starved and An-An seems a very friendly animal
0:42:44 > 0:42:46so my hopes are high.
0:42:52 > 0:42:55Here in the Mediterranean, about seven years ago,
0:42:55 > 0:42:56I was sitting talking with a friend
0:42:56 > 0:42:59and I was pointing out to him the way in which people behave.
0:42:59 > 0:43:01I said, "Look at that woman over there.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04"She's folding her arms in an unusual way,
0:43:04 > 0:43:07"and that couple over there, the way they're gesticulating
0:43:07 > 0:43:09"could only come from this part of the world.
0:43:09 > 0:43:12"And the way that old lady is clasping her hands."
0:43:12 > 0:43:14And as I was talking he said,
0:43:14 > 0:43:19"You know, you look at people the way a birdwatcher looks at birds."
0:43:19 > 0:43:22I said, "Yes, I suppose in fact you could call me a manwatcher."
0:43:30 > 0:43:34The book that made Morris's name was The Naked Ape
0:43:34 > 0:43:38and it had a shocking new claim at its heart.
0:43:39 > 0:43:45Much of our normal human behaviour is derived from our animal ancestry.
0:43:48 > 0:43:49Despite mankind's great advances
0:43:49 > 0:43:54with abstract ideas and manufactured objects,
0:43:54 > 0:43:59we remain nonetheless creatures of vigorous animal action.
0:44:00 > 0:44:05So he looked at human beings as if, as a zoologist would do
0:44:05 > 0:44:07as if they were a strange animal
0:44:07 > 0:44:11and they didn't listen to what they said, what did they actually do.
0:44:11 > 0:44:17And that produced some extraordinary insights into human behaviour
0:44:17 > 0:44:19which a lot of people resented.
0:44:19 > 0:44:25They felt it was actually reducing human beings to the status of animals.
0:44:33 > 0:44:35For some people,
0:44:35 > 0:44:39direct comparisons of this kind are insulting to human dignity.
0:44:39 > 0:44:41To others, they're merely amusing.
0:44:43 > 0:44:47But the manwatcher is quite serious when he sees people as animals.
0:44:47 > 0:44:51For him, this approach is in no way degrading.
0:44:51 > 0:44:52Whether we like it or not,
0:44:52 > 0:44:54we are animals and should be studied as such,
0:44:54 > 0:44:58but this doesn't mean we're the same as other animals.
0:44:58 > 0:44:59Every species is unique.
0:45:07 > 0:45:09In 1976,
0:45:09 > 0:45:13Morris made the first of his numerous appearances on Parkinson
0:45:13 > 0:45:16and explained there what he believes we can learn
0:45:16 > 0:45:19from studying humans as if we are simply another animal.
0:45:19 > 0:45:21APPLAUSE
0:45:26 > 0:45:30We learn, I think, that we are animals.
0:45:30 > 0:45:34People get insulted if I say "you are an animal".
0:45:34 > 0:45:37I hate the way judges always say "behaving like young animals",
0:45:37 > 0:45:40it's one thing they are NOT behaving like, usually,
0:45:40 > 0:45:42they are behaving very much like people.
0:45:42 > 0:45:46Animals don't go around torturing and murdering.
0:45:46 > 0:45:52And what we do learn, I think, by looking at us as animals
0:45:52 > 0:45:57is that we have predispositions to behave in certain ways,
0:45:57 > 0:46:01and that those cultures that have lost sight of the fact
0:46:01 > 0:46:03that we have certain animal qualities...
0:46:03 > 0:46:06which are not bad qualities, they are good qualities most of them,
0:46:06 > 0:46:09they have helped us to survive for millions of years.
0:46:09 > 0:46:12If we deny those qualities too much, we are pretty flexible,
0:46:12 > 0:46:16but if we deny them those qualities too much then we're in trouble.
0:46:22 > 0:46:25Morris showed that insights
0:46:25 > 0:46:27into human behaviour could be gleaned
0:46:27 > 0:46:30by looking at humans through the eyes of a zoologist.
0:46:30 > 0:46:34And the study of animals themselves would also reveal to us
0:46:34 > 0:46:39how our own nature works, as another of our thinkers would show us.
0:46:45 > 0:46:49Jane Goodall fulfilled a childhood ambition
0:46:49 > 0:46:52when she travelled to Gombe in Tanzania
0:46:52 > 0:46:55to study the behaviour of wild chimpanzees.
0:46:57 > 0:47:00I remember the first day I arrived at Gombe,
0:47:00 > 0:47:04going along the shore of the lake in the little boat.
0:47:05 > 0:47:09And I looked up at the hillsides
0:47:09 > 0:47:13with the thick valleys of forest in between.
0:47:13 > 0:47:16And I remember thinking, how will I find the chimps?
0:47:16 > 0:47:17I felt so tiny.
0:47:19 > 0:47:23Despite having no zoological training Goodall did find them.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28Day after day, often alone in the jungle,
0:47:28 > 0:47:30she studied their behaviour,
0:47:30 > 0:47:35as she told to Valerie Singleton on Blue Peter in 1971.
0:47:37 > 0:47:40Were you ever really very frightened?
0:47:40 > 0:47:44Sometimes I was frightened, especially of things like leopards
0:47:44 > 0:47:47but it was the kind of life I had always dreamed of myself living
0:47:47 > 0:47:50and it was so fascinating that nothing could deter me.
0:47:50 > 0:47:55- You weren't put off at all?- No. - How long did it take you before you got really close to the chimps?
0:47:55 > 0:47:58It took six months before I could get to within 100 yards
0:47:58 > 0:48:02and it was two years before I could make really close up, detailed observations
0:48:02 > 0:48:04without them being scared.
0:48:10 > 0:48:13Goodall's patience paid off.
0:48:14 > 0:48:19High up in the ancient African forests, she made a startling discovery
0:48:19 > 0:48:24which would revolutionise how we view the origins of human behaviour.
0:48:30 > 0:48:37Archaeologists in trying to define the difference between a human being and an ape
0:48:37 > 0:48:42had said in years gone by that human beings
0:48:42 > 0:48:43actually made tools
0:48:43 > 0:48:45and people thought that that was
0:48:45 > 0:48:49a defining characteristic of human beings.
0:48:49 > 0:48:53Goodall's revelation came when she observed, for the first time,
0:48:53 > 0:48:56chimps making and using tools.
0:48:58 > 0:49:05I remember so vividly walking through the long, tangled vegetation.
0:49:05 > 0:49:06It had been raining.
0:49:06 > 0:49:09And I suddenly saw a black shape hunched over
0:49:09 > 0:49:13this beautiful golden colour of a termite mound.
0:49:13 > 0:49:15I peered with my binoculars
0:49:15 > 0:49:18and it was a male chimp with his back to me
0:49:18 > 0:49:20and I could see his hand reaching out
0:49:20 > 0:49:25and picking pieces of grass and poking them at the heap.
0:49:31 > 0:49:35And that in one stroke demolished the old definition
0:49:35 > 0:49:39that archaeologists had of what made a human being.
0:49:48 > 0:49:52And Goodall noticed other human traits in chimpanzees,
0:49:52 > 0:49:56like affection and grief.
0:49:57 > 0:50:00But it was her observations of the darker side of chimpanzee life
0:50:00 > 0:50:03that would be most controversial.
0:50:10 > 0:50:14Goodall discovered chimps with violent behaviour patterns.
0:50:17 > 0:50:21Not everyone was pleased when she announced her findings.
0:50:23 > 0:50:26When I first began describing brutal aggression,
0:50:26 > 0:50:28there were certain scientists
0:50:28 > 0:50:32who actually criticised me for publishing it.
0:50:32 > 0:50:36They said that if these kind of facts were published
0:50:36 > 0:50:40then certain irresponsible scientists and journalists
0:50:40 > 0:50:45would seize upon that information and say, "Ah, that means aggression
0:50:45 > 0:50:49"is deeply rooted in our human phylogenetic ancestry,
0:50:49 > 0:50:53"if we concede a common ancestor six million years ago or so,
0:50:53 > 0:50:57"and therefore aggression, warfare, violence
0:50:57 > 0:50:59"in our own species are inevitable."
0:51:07 > 0:51:08Goodall did publish,
0:51:08 > 0:51:12and some did draw the conclusion that violence in humans,
0:51:12 > 0:51:15and chimps, is impossible to avoid.
0:51:15 > 0:51:19But the question remains, is that true?
0:51:21 > 0:51:24Are we slaves to our natural instincts
0:51:24 > 0:51:27or can we master our behaviour?
0:51:28 > 0:51:33Freud and Jung told us we are prey to innate drives
0:51:33 > 0:51:35buried in our unconscious minds.
0:51:39 > 0:51:42Mead believed our cultures mould us.
0:51:42 > 0:51:45Skinner proved that elements of our behaviour can be altered
0:51:45 > 0:51:48if we change the environmental conditions.
0:51:51 > 0:51:57Morris and Goodall showed us how aspects of our behaviour are driven by our animal ancestry.
0:52:01 > 0:52:06But it would take a great thinker at the end of the 20th century
0:52:06 > 0:52:09to bring forward a theory which seemed to many to offer
0:52:09 > 0:52:13an all-encompassing explanation for why humans are the way we are.
0:52:19 > 0:52:23My name is Richard Dawkins. I'm a zoologist from Oxford.
0:52:25 > 0:52:32In 1976 Dawkins published one of the most successful science books of all time.
0:52:32 > 0:52:37The Selfish Gene, was a radical updating of evolutionary theory.
0:52:40 > 0:52:47It was a view that we are just vehicles for our genes.
0:52:47 > 0:52:51It's the genes' interests that matters, it's not us.
0:52:51 > 0:52:55And that he showed has all sorts of new consequences
0:52:55 > 0:52:59for the way in which we view human behaviour.
0:52:59 > 0:53:05And it was a wonderful, radical new vision set out in sparkling prose
0:53:05 > 0:53:09and above it all this wonderful metaphor...
0:53:09 > 0:53:11The Selfish Gene.
0:53:17 > 0:53:21That title though has had serious implications.
0:53:22 > 0:53:30Dawkins was accused of providing a justification for a greedy, selfish, ruthless society
0:53:30 > 0:53:32where the law of the jungle rules.
0:53:38 > 0:53:43But Dawkins says that the book is not advocating selfishness.
0:53:43 > 0:53:47According to him, genes often stand the best chance of survival
0:53:47 > 0:53:49if, rather than fighting it out,
0:53:49 > 0:53:53individuals cooperate and look after each other.
0:53:57 > 0:54:02In the late '80s Dawkins appeared on the BBC's Thinking Aloud programme
0:54:02 > 0:54:04and he explained his ideas.
0:54:09 > 0:54:13Individual human beings are there as machines
0:54:13 > 0:54:15for propagating their genes.
0:54:15 > 0:54:17That is a kind of quasi purpose.
0:54:17 > 0:54:21The language of purpose works in evolution as you look at nature
0:54:21 > 0:54:24you can see organisms as purposeful machines.
0:54:24 > 0:54:29They look as if they have been constructed for a purpose of reproducing, passing on their genes.
0:54:29 > 0:54:31That is precisely what we are here for.
0:54:33 > 0:54:36And Dawkins faced up to the charge that his book
0:54:36 > 0:54:39was about humankind's selfish nature.
0:54:40 > 0:54:44The Selfish Gene made very extravagant claims,
0:54:44 > 0:54:46at least to a general reader,
0:54:46 > 0:54:49about the selfish coding of our biological inheritance.
0:54:49 > 0:54:55The Selfish Gene never made claims about the selfishness of human psychology
0:54:55 > 0:54:58or any detailed claims about human psychology at all.
0:54:58 > 0:55:04To be sure misinterpretations of The Selfish Gene have made just such claims.
0:55:04 > 0:55:07What precise claims do you make... Why did you call it that book,
0:55:07 > 0:55:09why did you give it that title?
0:55:09 > 0:55:12Because I was wanting to conjure up in the mind of the reader
0:55:12 > 0:55:16the image of the organism including ourselves
0:55:16 > 0:55:18as a machine for passing on genes.
0:55:18 > 0:55:20It is the selfish gene but not the selfish individual.
0:55:24 > 0:55:29For Dawkins then, humans are not simply selfish individuals
0:55:29 > 0:55:33who will do whatever it takes to reproduce our genes.
0:55:35 > 0:55:39Evolution has also given us big, complex brains
0:55:39 > 0:55:43which means we can override our inbuilt genetic compulsions.
0:55:47 > 0:55:49In humans the brain has taken over,
0:55:49 > 0:55:52in such a big way,
0:55:52 > 0:55:55that it becomes positively misleading
0:55:55 > 0:55:59to try to attempt to explain human behaviour
0:55:59 > 0:56:05in a simple-minded naive vehicle for the genes kind of way.
0:56:05 > 0:56:08So you're not going to get anywhere if you say,
0:56:08 > 0:56:10"Well, what good does it do your genes
0:56:10 > 0:56:14"to compose a symphony or write a book or score a goal in football?"
0:56:17 > 0:56:21What governs how humans behave
0:56:21 > 0:56:29is an extremely complicated mixture of our genetically-provided brains,
0:56:29 > 0:56:35overlain by a massive infusion of culture.
0:56:39 > 0:56:45And if you try to understand human psychology and human behaviour
0:56:45 > 0:56:50in terms of either culture on its own or genetic evolution on its own, you're going to fail.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53Because they're both there, they're both extremely important.
0:57:03 > 0:57:08This is where a century of enquiry into human behaviour,
0:57:08 > 0:57:10fought out on the airwaves, has brought us.
0:57:13 > 0:57:16We are undoubtedly products of our biology
0:57:16 > 0:57:20and the potential for human failing will always be there.
0:57:21 > 0:57:25But that doesn't mean we're slaves to our nature.
0:57:25 > 0:57:28The sophistication of the human brain
0:57:28 > 0:57:31and the ways in which we live together have given us
0:57:31 > 0:57:35the power to recognise and master our worst impulses.
0:57:37 > 0:57:41This, after all, is what being human is all about.
0:57:45 > 0:57:49Make the connections between Great Thinkers
0:57:49 > 0:57:57and discover some surprising new ones with The Open University at:
0:58:17 > 0:58:20Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:58:20 > 0:58:23Email subtitling@bbc.co.uk