The Last Impresario

0:00:02 > 0:00:05Oh! Calcutta! - the groundbreaking stage show that made a mockery of

0:00:05 > 0:00:08Britain's archaic censorship laws and was embraced by a new generation.

0:00:10 > 0:00:12The Rocky Horror Picture Show -

0:00:12 > 0:00:15the cult musical that, against all expectations,

0:00:15 > 0:00:19went on to become a multimillion-dollar smash hit in the States.

0:00:19 > 0:00:25The subversive genius of Monty Python translated into film.

0:00:25 > 0:00:28All these now infamous productions helped shape

0:00:28 > 0:00:32the cultural landscape of Britain in the 1960s and '70s.

0:00:32 > 0:00:35They're now part of our DNA.

0:00:35 > 0:00:37Chances are you'll have seen one of these shows.

0:00:37 > 0:00:41You might even have come here, to The Roundhouse, to see Oh! Calcutta!

0:00:41 > 0:00:44But unless you're in the theatre or film industry,

0:00:44 > 0:00:47you probably won't know the name of the man behind them.

0:00:47 > 0:00:49He's called Michael White,

0:00:49 > 0:00:54affectionately known as Chalky to his legion of loyal celebrity friends.

0:00:54 > 0:00:57And tonight, Imagine celebrates the illustrious

0:00:57 > 0:01:02and unconventional career of the man some call The Last Impresario.

0:01:02 > 0:01:06A man whose lust for life and insatiable curiosity

0:01:06 > 0:01:10saw him spot talent and connect people like no-one else.

0:01:10 > 0:01:12The filmmaker Gracie Otto

0:01:12 > 0:01:16bumped into Michael White in a bar at the Cannes Film Festival.

0:01:16 > 0:01:20The result of that chance encounter is this intimate portrait,

0:01:20 > 0:01:26filmed over two years, of an unlikely, unsung hero.

0:01:26 > 0:01:35This programme contains some strong language

0:01:35 > 0:01:38UPBEAT INSTRUMENTAL

0:02:08 > 0:02:11OK, so, tell me, when was the first year you came here?

0:02:11 > 0:02:131968.

0:02:13 > 0:02:141968?

0:02:14 > 0:02:16Hello, girls.

0:02:16 > 0:02:18- Hello.- Hi.

0:02:21 > 0:02:22THEY GIGGLE

0:02:22 > 0:02:24You are unbelievable.

0:02:25 > 0:02:28- Masha.- Hi. Nice to meet you.

0:02:28 > 0:02:30- Gracie.- Hi.- Hi, there.

0:02:30 > 0:02:32- Gracie. Nice to meet you. - Nice to see you.

0:02:37 > 0:02:39- Photograph him.- What? I don't think I could do that.

0:02:39 > 0:02:40He walked down the road.

0:02:40 > 0:02:43Well, I didn't see him from that far away.

0:02:43 > 0:02:47This is a very good place to sit.

0:02:47 > 0:02:49You've missed all the celebs.

0:02:49 > 0:02:51Him.

0:02:51 > 0:02:52Sit down.

0:02:52 > 0:02:54UPBEAT INSTRUMENTAL

0:03:05 > 0:03:06Well, hello there!

0:03:06 > 0:03:09- Oh, Michael, how are you? - Good to see you.

0:03:09 > 0:03:11You've met Gina? Gina, this is Michael.

0:03:11 > 0:03:13- Hello, Gina.- Michael.

0:03:13 > 0:03:16Michael's been going to that festival for I don't know how many years.

0:03:16 > 0:03:20And I think, you know, he just...he likes people.

0:03:20 > 0:03:23He's interested in people.

0:03:23 > 0:03:26You know, I've met the most extraordinary people with Michael.

0:03:26 > 0:03:30You know, one minute he's hanging out in some grungy bar,

0:03:30 > 0:03:33then he's dining with Thatcher.

0:03:33 > 0:03:37It seemed to me that I always knew Michael.

0:03:37 > 0:03:39Michael was one of those extraordinary people

0:03:39 > 0:03:44that just seemed to know everybody on the planet.

0:03:44 > 0:03:46Michael just liked being where the action was.

0:03:46 > 0:03:48That's when he came alive.

0:03:48 > 0:03:52When you felt he was at the centre of all these different worlds.

0:03:52 > 0:03:54I was in New York.

0:03:54 > 0:03:57And I think I was about 19 or 20.

0:03:57 > 0:03:59I'd just met Christy and Naomi

0:03:59 > 0:04:03and it was all really exciting for me.

0:04:03 > 0:04:05And, um...I don't know, one night,

0:04:05 > 0:04:08I ended up just hanging out with Chalky and going on and on.

0:04:08 > 0:04:12Like, "Let's go to another club. Let's go to..."

0:04:12 > 0:04:14And he was like the only one that could really keep up with me.

0:04:19 > 0:04:21Michael's been coming here for many years

0:04:21 > 0:04:23and we've spent many holidays together.

0:04:24 > 0:04:28So this is a very important pool. Every year, we have a party here.

0:04:28 > 0:04:30And Michael was here for the party this year.

0:04:42 > 0:04:45What I'm doing with this documentary is I'm trying to find out about him.

0:04:45 > 0:04:47So now I have to meet all the people

0:04:47 > 0:04:50and find out what I can about Michael.

0:04:50 > 0:04:52Because he can't tell me everything any more.

0:04:52 > 0:04:54What if I follow you for another five years?

0:04:54 > 0:04:56No.

0:04:56 > 0:04:59I won't be here in five years.

0:04:59 > 0:05:01- SHE LAUGHS - Yeah, you will.

0:05:08 > 0:05:12He's the most famous person you've never heard of.

0:05:12 > 0:05:15I mean, nobody's ever heard of Michael White, have they?

0:05:15 > 0:05:17He knew everybody. You would go to these dinners

0:05:17 > 0:05:20and you're surrounded by all the faces.

0:05:20 > 0:05:22And he's probably the only person

0:05:22 > 0:05:24that your average man on the street wouldn't know.

0:05:24 > 0:05:26And yet everybody in the room wants to talk to Michael.

0:05:26 > 0:05:31Michael's a very interesting kind of guy, you know, visually.

0:05:31 > 0:05:34Very cool and beautiful.

0:05:34 > 0:05:37Really, the way he sat on the sofa

0:05:37 > 0:05:42embodied the fact that he found it to be a pleasant experience.

0:05:42 > 0:05:46He was the most brilliant, successful

0:05:46 > 0:05:49young producer in London.

0:05:57 > 0:05:59You know, one of the things that's so striking

0:05:59 > 0:06:03when you look at Michael's body of work

0:06:03 > 0:06:08is just how cutting edge he was.

0:06:08 > 0:06:12Oh, what I loved about Michael is that he was one of those people

0:06:12 > 0:06:14who didn't try to dominate.

0:06:14 > 0:06:15And he trusted us.

0:06:15 > 0:06:17He thought we had talent.

0:06:17 > 0:06:20I don't think I would have become an actress

0:06:20 > 0:06:22or been in showbiz if it wasn't for Michael.

0:06:22 > 0:06:25I never felt that the suits were here.

0:06:25 > 0:06:27You know, I didn't feel like that when Michael was there.

0:06:27 > 0:06:29If he was a suit, he had a great one on.

0:06:29 > 0:06:32In any period in the last 40 or 50 years,

0:06:32 > 0:06:34Michael was probably there at the centre of

0:06:34 > 0:06:37whatever the pop cultural thing that was going on at that moment.

0:06:37 > 0:06:39He's very interested in people.

0:06:39 > 0:06:41He's fascinated by people.

0:06:41 > 0:06:44And he loves people-watching and involving himself with people.

0:06:44 > 0:06:46That is his other great love, and his art.

0:06:46 > 0:06:49There's just something about him as a human being

0:06:49 > 0:06:55that is complex, funny and very, very warm.

0:06:55 > 0:06:59I would say that I always found him a charming enigma.

0:06:59 > 0:07:02Michael's the most hidden man you'll ever, ever meet.

0:07:07 > 0:07:09PIANO RECITAL

0:07:13 > 0:07:19Michael grew up in Glasgow with lots of cousins, aunts and uncles.

0:07:19 > 0:07:22It was a very warm, loving environment.

0:07:22 > 0:07:25My grandparents were effectively

0:07:25 > 0:07:29children of refugee families from Eastern Europe.

0:07:29 > 0:07:33And my grandfather was very successful for a time in property.

0:07:33 > 0:07:36So at some point in Michael's childhood,

0:07:36 > 0:07:39my grandparents were relatively affluent.

0:07:39 > 0:07:44But Michael was sent away at a young age to boarding school,

0:07:44 > 0:07:47which was quite difficult for him, really.

0:07:47 > 0:07:52It was a childhood described in some of the profiles as being miserable.

0:07:52 > 0:07:53What was miserable about it?

0:07:53 > 0:07:56Well, it was miserable because I had very acute asthma.

0:07:56 > 0:07:59Is that why you were sent away to school to Europe?

0:07:59 > 0:08:01Correct, yes. I was very sickly.

0:08:03 > 0:08:06I went to Switzerland when I was just seven.

0:08:06 > 0:08:08It was quite difficult.

0:08:08 > 0:08:09- By yourself?- Yes.

0:08:09 > 0:08:12To a school where none of the other boys spoke English.

0:08:14 > 0:08:18And so I learned French pretty quick. Had to.

0:08:18 > 0:08:20You must have been terribly lonely.

0:08:20 > 0:08:22I was, yes. Very.

0:08:22 > 0:08:24It was quite a cruel thing to do to you, wasn't it?

0:08:24 > 0:08:26Well, it was and it wasn't.

0:08:26 > 0:08:30It was quite lonely, but it also had its good side.

0:08:30 > 0:08:33It made me very open-minded.

0:08:33 > 0:08:36By the time I was 12, I spoke all these languages.

0:08:36 > 0:08:39I had a very open, cultural,

0:08:39 > 0:08:42different attitude to things than most people.

0:08:43 > 0:08:46Most English producers came up through the English system.

0:08:46 > 0:08:49But Michael, of course, had a very different background.

0:08:49 > 0:08:52And in his background...

0:08:52 > 0:08:54I mean, first of all, he grew up in Scotland.

0:08:54 > 0:08:57He was educated in Switzerland and at the Sorbonne.

0:08:57 > 0:08:59He'd worked in New York.

0:08:59 > 0:09:00He was an internationalist.

0:09:04 > 0:09:09Michael found his metier, his vocation, really,

0:09:09 > 0:09:12working in Connecticut at the White Barn Theatre

0:09:12 > 0:09:15when he began sweeping the stage for Lucille Lortel.

0:09:15 > 0:09:18And, of course, Michael came back to London

0:09:18 > 0:09:19and worked for Peter Daubeny.

0:09:19 > 0:09:22And Michael told me that he caught Peter Daubeny's eye

0:09:22 > 0:09:25by writing in green ink in his job application.

0:09:25 > 0:09:28And that sort of shows, I think, Michael's quirky side.

0:09:34 > 0:09:38Peter specialised in doing international theatre seasons.

0:09:38 > 0:09:41And when I was with him, it was an extraordinary time

0:09:41 > 0:09:45of being involved with the Berliner Ensemble, the Moscow Art Theatre,

0:09:45 > 0:09:46the Comedie-Francaise.

0:09:46 > 0:09:49It was all very, very exciting.

0:09:49 > 0:09:52And I think it gave Michael White an internationalist outlook.

0:09:52 > 0:09:55The point about Daubeny was he created these world theatre seasons

0:09:55 > 0:09:58every year in London and brought companies from all over.

0:09:58 > 0:10:01And so Michael White's introduction to producing was exactly that.

0:10:01 > 0:10:03Discovering foreign theatre.

0:10:09 > 0:10:11In 1961, I think, he produced The Connection,

0:10:11 > 0:10:15which was the first play he produced on his own.

0:10:15 > 0:10:18It was a show done by the Living Theatre in New York.

0:10:18 > 0:10:22It was about some drug addicts waiting for the connection to come.

0:10:22 > 0:10:25It was very edgy, caused a scandal.

0:10:25 > 0:10:30There were scenes of simulated intravenous injection on stage.

0:10:30 > 0:10:31You can imagine in 1961,

0:10:31 > 0:10:34when the theatre was still censored in this country

0:10:34 > 0:10:36by the Lord Chamberlain's Office,

0:10:36 > 0:10:39that it was quite radical, quite daring.

0:10:39 > 0:10:43I think it's a great play and I think this sort of hostility

0:10:43 > 0:10:46is not representative of the audience's feelings at all.

0:10:51 > 0:10:54He said the English are a packet of old feather dusters, sir.

0:10:54 > 0:10:57He then did the Son Of Oblomov with Spike Milligan.

0:10:57 > 0:10:58That that was an extraordinary event

0:10:58 > 0:11:01because Spike Milligan was not someone who stuck to a text.

0:11:01 > 0:11:04So every night, Spike Milligan would quite simply improvise

0:11:04 > 0:11:07around this sort of rather thin story about a man who never got out of bed.

0:11:07 > 0:11:10And technically, the play was in breach of the law

0:11:10 > 0:11:14because the Lord Chamberlain had not approved of the script.

0:11:14 > 0:11:18But your performance departed from the script quite a bit last night.

0:11:18 > 0:11:20Did you lay on a special royal performance?

0:11:20 > 0:11:22No, no. Just as it came, man, you know.

0:11:22 > 0:11:25But would you say the Queen entered into the spirit of things?

0:11:25 > 0:11:27No, she stayed alive all the time.

0:11:27 > 0:11:31It's hard to believe, but until 1968, every living performance

0:11:31 > 0:11:34had to be licensed by the Lord Chamberlain.

0:11:34 > 0:11:36And that meant that if you were critical

0:11:36 > 0:11:38of the monarchy or religion,

0:11:38 > 0:11:40or had an excessive amount of swearing,

0:11:40 > 0:11:42your play would be either censored,

0:11:42 > 0:11:44or sometimes even totally banned.

0:11:44 > 0:11:46You can't just run down to Lord Chamberlain every day.

0:11:46 > 0:11:49But doesn't this make a bit of a mockery of his office?

0:11:49 > 0:11:52I mean, this is what he's there for, to approve public performances.

0:11:52 > 0:11:55That's true. I mean, he is there for that, yes.

0:11:55 > 0:11:57But, I mean, how...

0:11:57 > 0:12:00If television, for instance, had to put up with the Lord Chamberlain,

0:12:00 > 0:12:02it would mean that every day,

0:12:02 > 0:12:04you'd have to have 100 people doing nothing else.

0:12:04 > 0:12:07It's only in the theatre that this act,

0:12:07 > 0:12:10which dates back to 1843, goes on.

0:12:10 > 0:12:14It's really not in tune with modern theatre thought, or anything.

0:12:14 > 0:12:17Michael was very much a man of the '60s.

0:12:17 > 0:12:21He was almost like a mini Diaghilev of the permissive society.

0:12:21 > 0:12:24He wanted to express, through his productions,

0:12:24 > 0:12:26the culture that was going on around him.

0:12:26 > 0:12:29And whereas other producers of an older generation

0:12:29 > 0:12:31would retire to their clubs and drink their G&Ts,

0:12:31 > 0:12:34you know, you could imagine Michael with a joint.

0:12:34 > 0:12:36I'm not making sort of statements,

0:12:36 > 0:12:39but, you know, his culture was different. His world was different.

0:12:39 > 0:12:41The Cambridge Circus!

0:12:41 > 0:12:43APPLAUSE

0:12:44 > 0:12:49Every year, The Footlights had an annual revue.

0:12:49 > 0:12:54And in 1963, I was in the cast with a particularly good bunch of people.

0:12:54 > 0:12:58There was Tim Brooke-Taylor, who's a great physical comedian.

0:12:58 > 0:13:01There was Bill Oddie, who wrote some great pop songs

0:13:01 > 0:13:04and really sang them like a professional,

0:13:04 > 0:13:05except they were parodies.

0:13:05 > 0:13:07# The London Bus, it goes Acton Town

0:13:07 > 0:13:09# All God's children on the London bus

0:13:09 > 0:13:12# When you've got to stand up and when you want to sit down

0:13:12 > 0:13:13# Hallelujah on the London bus

0:13:13 > 0:13:15# Well, all you need is a three-penny fare

0:13:15 > 0:13:17# Love it on the London Bus

0:13:17 > 0:13:21# And the good conductor's going to get you there...#

0:13:21 > 0:13:24I don't know whether somebody had said to Michael,

0:13:24 > 0:13:26"Go and have a look at this,"

0:13:26 > 0:13:30or whether he was in the habit of scouting around universities,

0:13:30 > 0:13:34but Michael got us on in London.

0:13:34 > 0:13:38And that was the first Footlights show,

0:13:38 > 0:13:40first university show, as far as I know,

0:13:40 > 0:13:44to actually transfer straight into the West End.

0:13:44 > 0:13:47We were suddenly told somebody called Michael White

0:13:47 > 0:13:50wanted to put us on in the West End and we thought,

0:13:50 > 0:13:53"What?!" You know, "The West End?!"

0:13:53 > 0:13:55And the critics liked it.

0:13:55 > 0:13:58And we just had the most wonderful experience.

0:13:58 > 0:14:03From my point of view, that enabled me to pay off my entire student loan

0:14:03 > 0:14:06that I'd accumulated over three years, in about three months.

0:14:06 > 0:14:08It was extraordinary.

0:14:08 > 0:14:13Between us, Michael had discovered and promoted

0:14:13 > 0:14:16the groups which became Monty Python and The Goodies

0:14:16 > 0:14:18and various other things in between.

0:14:18 > 0:14:21I was never quite sure who he was,

0:14:21 > 0:14:23what he was doing, whether he liked anything.

0:14:23 > 0:14:25He was very, I think, shy.

0:14:25 > 0:14:27I don't know whether he was shy,

0:14:27 > 0:14:30or whether he knew there was an air of mystery which would help.

0:14:30 > 0:14:32I just remember he was a bit like a Bond villain.

0:14:32 > 0:14:34He always had a glamorous blonde on his arm somewhere.

0:14:41 > 0:14:43I'd been modelling

0:14:43 > 0:14:47and then I started with a friend of Michael's called Alice Pollock.

0:14:47 > 0:14:51We made clothes for Julie Christie, various people.

0:14:55 > 0:14:57How did you meet Michael?

0:14:57 > 0:15:00- SHE CHUCKLES - My children always ask me this.

0:15:00 > 0:15:03At a cocktail party of a friend of his.

0:15:03 > 0:15:04He asked me to go out to dinner.

0:15:04 > 0:15:07He probably asked everybody he met at that time to go out to dinner.

0:15:07 > 0:15:10I just happened to be one of the gang.

0:15:10 > 0:15:13We got married shortly before our first child was born

0:15:13 > 0:15:16because Michael's mother didn't approve of him

0:15:16 > 0:15:18knowing anyone who wasn't Jewish.

0:15:18 > 0:15:20So that caused a lot of problems.

0:15:20 > 0:15:23I think the interesting thing about Michael

0:15:23 > 0:15:27is that even then, he was phenomenally interested

0:15:27 > 0:15:30in everything that was going on.

0:15:30 > 0:15:32And doing things, seeing people.

0:15:32 > 0:15:36He was incapable of walking past somebody in the street that he knew

0:15:36 > 0:15:40without either inviting them to dinner or arranging to meet them.

0:15:40 > 0:15:43Michael was the best-read person I've ever met.

0:15:43 > 0:15:46And he was always looking to the new.

0:15:46 > 0:15:49We used to have after-supper parties

0:15:49 > 0:15:51which used to go on until the early hours.

0:15:51 > 0:15:53And anyone dropped in.

0:15:53 > 0:15:56So somebody might bring Van Morrison, or...

0:15:56 > 0:15:59- And Vanessa Redgrave.- She was there.

0:15:59 > 0:16:04The major stars of the time were sort of his contemporaries.

0:16:13 > 0:16:15Michael and I met at the Indica Gallery.

0:16:15 > 0:16:21Indica Gallery was the most extraordinary laboratory of arts.

0:16:21 > 0:16:24Visual arts, portrait, film.

0:16:27 > 0:16:31Drugs, sex and rock'n'roll of Swinging London.

0:16:31 > 0:16:33The famous Swinging London.

0:16:33 > 0:16:36And Yoko Ono was having a show at Indica.

0:16:46 > 0:16:50I was in London and Michael White

0:16:50 > 0:16:55told me that he had a place called the Jeanetta Cochrane Theatre.

0:16:55 > 0:16:57And that's where he wanted me to do a show.

0:16:57 > 0:17:02I'd like to share with you a press release I got today on Yoko Ono,

0:17:02 > 0:17:05a Japanese artist, composer and filmmaker.

0:17:05 > 0:17:08She's the young lady who made that imaginative film

0:17:08 > 0:17:11which consisted entirely of nude backsides.

0:17:11 > 0:17:16She's now planning a definitive Music of the Mind concert.

0:17:16 > 0:17:20During the concert, Miss Ono's film, Number Four,

0:17:20 > 0:17:22will be shown in the men's toilet of the theatre.

0:17:25 > 0:17:27So she and Michael became quite friendly

0:17:27 > 0:17:29and did quite a few things together.

0:17:29 > 0:17:32I remember one where she simply performed inside

0:17:32 > 0:17:36a black stretchy bag that covered her all over.

0:17:36 > 0:17:40And Michael just didn't care whether it was women or men.

0:17:40 > 0:17:44That was very, very different from the other producers, I think.

0:17:44 > 0:17:47I think most producers were trying to give an opportunity

0:17:47 > 0:17:50to male artists, you know.

0:17:50 > 0:17:53And usually, producers of a show like that,

0:17:53 > 0:17:58they're not particularly so cool-looking, but he was.

0:17:58 > 0:18:00He was like somebody who just came

0:18:00 > 0:18:04right out of a 1930s film, or something. He was great.

0:18:04 > 0:18:09In those days, arts were completely academic and constipated.

0:18:09 > 0:18:13You know, you had to castrate whatever you were doing.

0:18:13 > 0:18:15And, of course, we refused to do that.

0:18:15 > 0:18:18We were from the Dada strain, you know, the anarchist strain.

0:18:18 > 0:18:21And we were doing what we called happenings.

0:18:21 > 0:18:24I want an evocation in space.

0:18:24 > 0:18:26A place between desire and experience.

0:18:29 > 0:18:32A happening is a happening. You know, it's, er...

0:18:32 > 0:18:34I know several people who do happenings,

0:18:34 > 0:18:36they make a rehearsal before.

0:18:36 > 0:18:38And this time, it was direct.

0:18:38 > 0:18:41It wasn't theatre, it wasn't painting

0:18:41 > 0:18:44it wasn't poetry, it wasn't music, it wasn't dance.

0:18:44 > 0:18:47It was a mix of all that stuff together.

0:18:47 > 0:18:53And I can't remember exactly how Michael White heard about this.

0:18:53 > 0:18:55Maybe it was from the press, from the radio.

0:18:55 > 0:18:57But he...he showed up.

0:18:57 > 0:19:00And he said, "Hey! That's interesting!

0:19:00 > 0:19:02"I'd like to bring this to London."

0:19:02 > 0:19:07And it occurred. And it was a very high-level artistic event.

0:19:07 > 0:19:12The Tory press, of course, accused us of being agitators.

0:19:12 > 0:19:15We were just artists, you know, doing our stuff.

0:19:15 > 0:19:19And looking back, you understand

0:19:19 > 0:19:24that some boundary was...broken.

0:19:25 > 0:19:28And people overstepped what was allowed.

0:19:31 > 0:19:35England was emerging both from post-war austerity

0:19:35 > 0:19:37through Swinging London

0:19:37 > 0:19:40and into some kind of new version of itself.

0:19:40 > 0:19:46And I think that Michael was one of the few risk-taking producers

0:19:46 > 0:19:50who would actually take a gamble, a punt,

0:19:50 > 0:19:53on works that absolutely challenged the status quo.

0:19:53 > 0:19:56And I think that many of those works contributed in some way

0:19:56 > 0:20:00to the transformation of English society at the time.

0:20:00 > 0:20:02BELL TOLLS

0:20:06 > 0:20:09And the Swinging Sixties were very much about London.

0:20:09 > 0:20:10It was very inward-looking.

0:20:10 > 0:20:12Michael was a sort of lone figure

0:20:12 > 0:20:15because he was interested in an international perspective.

0:20:15 > 0:20:18Most people don't remember that it was Michael White in 1960

0:20:18 > 0:20:21that brought Merce Cunningham and John Cage

0:20:21 > 0:20:23to Britain for the first time.

0:20:26 > 0:20:28I mean, there is no doubt that the visit of Merce Cunningham

0:20:28 > 0:20:31and the visit of Pina Bausch's Tanztheater Wuppertal,

0:20:31 > 0:20:36both of those visits changed the face of British dance for ever.

0:20:36 > 0:20:39Both represent something that wasn't being done before

0:20:39 > 0:20:44and certainly was completely foreign to the dance scene in Britain.

0:20:44 > 0:20:47And I don't know that Michael realised at the time

0:20:47 > 0:20:49quite what an impact those visits would have.

0:21:01 > 0:21:02Michael invited us

0:21:02 > 0:21:08and the company did not go back to London for about 17 years.

0:21:08 > 0:21:11He got us two years before New York.

0:21:11 > 0:21:14And, you know, it was pretty amazing.

0:21:14 > 0:21:16Working with Pina, you had to give everything.

0:21:16 > 0:21:18And they were quite hard, like,

0:21:18 > 0:21:23in Kontakthof, I had this scene where the whole company of men

0:21:23 > 0:21:27came to me and did their tenderness on me.

0:21:27 > 0:21:29But, you know, when you've got all these guys pulling you

0:21:29 > 0:21:33and licking you and patting you and kissing you, it's just...

0:21:33 > 0:21:35you know, it's pretty hard.

0:21:35 > 0:21:37INSTRUMENTAL

0:21:40 > 0:21:44Michael took something that was quite small

0:21:44 > 0:21:46and fringe and on the edge

0:21:46 > 0:21:49and introduced it to a much wider world.

0:21:49 > 0:21:51I mean, that was part of his genius.

0:21:51 > 0:21:54I mean, Michael is an impresario in that way

0:21:54 > 0:21:57and a Renaissance man in the way he has

0:21:57 > 0:22:00these tentacles in all these different worlds.

0:22:00 > 0:22:02But much more importantly,

0:22:02 > 0:22:05he wanted to share what he found with other people.

0:22:05 > 0:22:09I have many different sides to my personality.

0:22:11 > 0:22:13A serious side...

0:22:15 > 0:22:17..and a frivolous side.

0:22:17 > 0:22:20I mean, when you see the number of plays I did,

0:22:20 > 0:22:21nobody sane could have done

0:22:21 > 0:22:23the amount of plays I did.

0:22:23 > 0:22:25INSTRUMENTAL

0:22:59 > 0:23:01CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

0:23:02 > 0:23:05Welcome to the Olivier Awards!

0:23:05 > 0:23:07You can leave a note at Stage Door.

0:23:07 > 0:23:10And the winner is...Crazy For You!

0:23:10 > 0:23:14Accepting the award is Michael White. He is the producer,

0:23:14 > 0:23:17he has presented over 250 productions in London and New York.

0:23:17 > 0:23:19PIANO RECITAL

0:23:53 > 0:23:56Do you want to photograph me, or the picture?

0:23:59 > 0:24:02Neil Simon, Princess Margaret.

0:24:04 > 0:24:07Sean Connery, Michael Caine.

0:24:07 > 0:24:11Sharon Stone, Brooke Shields,

0:24:11 > 0:24:13Johnny Depp.

0:24:13 > 0:24:15I mean, there's so many albums.

0:24:17 > 0:24:18When do your albums start?

0:24:20 > 0:24:22'60.

0:24:22 > 0:24:23'68.

0:24:25 > 0:24:26'70.

0:24:28 > 0:24:29And how many albums do you have?

0:24:29 > 0:24:3130? 40?

0:24:32 > 0:24:35I'm addicted to taking photos.

0:24:36 > 0:24:38UPBEAT INSTUMENTAL

0:25:14 > 0:25:18Well, what Michael did is what the generation of today is doing.

0:25:18 > 0:25:21They're all using their phones to take photographs.

0:25:21 > 0:25:23Michael always had a little miniature camera

0:25:23 > 0:25:25and he would do the same thing.

0:25:25 > 0:25:28So his photographs, even though might be interesting,

0:25:28 > 0:25:31they weren't shot for beauty.

0:25:32 > 0:25:37Most of the time, they were shot just to capture a moment in time.

0:25:37 > 0:25:38Everybody trusts Michael.

0:25:38 > 0:25:42And I think that was like a little tool, his camera.

0:25:42 > 0:25:44It wasn't just about the result of taking the photo

0:25:44 > 0:25:46and having it, that memory.

0:25:46 > 0:25:48I think it was, like, his way of connecting with people.

0:25:48 > 0:25:51Because he would just pull it out all the time.

0:25:51 > 0:25:54And, you know, sometimes in places where it's, like,

0:25:54 > 0:25:56nobody wants to see a camera here.

0:25:56 > 0:25:59It's a curious eye that he has with his camera.

0:25:59 > 0:26:01And it's an intelligent eye,

0:26:01 > 0:26:05but it's not a Peeping Tom kind of a camera at all.

0:26:05 > 0:26:08I mean, he's not, what do they call them? A pap.

0:26:08 > 0:26:12You know, he's... He's an interested observer.

0:26:12 > 0:26:14And he sort of chronicled his life.

0:26:14 > 0:26:17And as he's a man of few words, you need to look at those photos

0:26:17 > 0:26:19because those photos tell you

0:26:19 > 0:26:21about the things that captured his attention.

0:26:21 > 0:26:24He's been taking photos for years.

0:26:24 > 0:26:28That's his testimony to who he is and where he's been.

0:26:28 > 0:26:30UPBEAT INSTRUMENTAL

0:26:32 > 0:26:35Michael ran his theatre empire from here.

0:26:35 > 0:26:37And it was quite fun because every day,

0:26:37 > 0:26:40some other famous person would run in and run out.

0:26:40 > 0:26:44One of the very early times we were here and the door opened

0:26:44 > 0:26:46and Koo Stark put her head around the corner and said,

0:26:46 > 0:26:50"Can I come in with my friend?" And the friend was Prince Andrew.

0:26:50 > 0:26:53That was one of our first memories of this office.

0:26:53 > 0:26:58It was sort of, um...artistic, literary chaos.

0:26:58 > 0:27:02There were books everywhere and people everywhere.

0:27:02 > 0:27:04I seem to remember it was always... The curtains were often drawn.

0:27:04 > 0:27:07I was here from 1961.

0:27:09 > 0:27:10I had an office down here

0:27:10 > 0:27:12and an apartment up there.

0:27:12 > 0:27:16And this is where John Lennon met Yoko.

0:27:16 > 0:27:19They were next door, as well?

0:27:19 > 0:27:21- There.- Really?

0:27:21 > 0:27:22Yeah.

0:27:22 > 0:27:24People would say you would come in here at 11:00am

0:27:24 > 0:27:26and have a Bloody Mary.

0:27:29 > 0:27:30And that's not all.

0:27:30 > 0:27:32THEY LAUGH

0:27:32 > 0:27:33That was a light morning.

0:27:33 > 0:27:37Well, the office, when I went there, it was unlike anything

0:27:37 > 0:27:39I imagined an office to be.

0:27:39 > 0:27:44It was full of pretty girls, which was always very nice,

0:27:44 > 0:27:48and lots of people running around doing stuff.

0:27:48 > 0:27:51Sometimes, some drugs were involved.

0:27:51 > 0:27:55But everybody worked hard and it was incredible fun.

0:27:55 > 0:27:57UPBEAT INSTRUMENTAL

0:28:00 > 0:28:02The '60s and the early '70s

0:28:02 > 0:28:05wouldn't have been what they were without Michael White.

0:28:05 > 0:28:07Here was a different sensibility.

0:28:07 > 0:28:09Someone who was quite brave, trying things out.

0:28:09 > 0:28:13And I think that's really where Michael's reputation rests.

0:28:13 > 0:28:17He was an impresario in the theatre who took risks

0:28:17 > 0:28:20before Cameron Mackintosh and people like that were around.

0:28:20 > 0:28:22So other people kind of played safe.

0:28:22 > 0:28:25So I suppose you went to Michael when nobody else would listen to you.

0:28:25 > 0:28:27INSTRUMENTAL

0:28:42 > 0:28:45Well, my father had this idea of this erotic revue.

0:28:45 > 0:28:50And he would get all his famous playwright friends -

0:28:50 > 0:28:52Samuel Beckett, you know -

0:28:52 > 0:28:56all these people, to write these little pieces for it.

0:28:56 > 0:29:00But Michael White got involved with my father.

0:29:01 > 0:29:03The show went into rehearsal

0:29:03 > 0:29:08and the actors were very good and very nervous.

0:29:08 > 0:29:12Three days before we opened, the actors said,

0:29:12 > 0:29:15"Well, we can't go on. We can't do the show nude".

0:29:15 > 0:29:17HE CHUCKLES

0:29:17 > 0:29:21And Ken Tynan stormed out.

0:29:21 > 0:29:26He went to get a taxi and he said,

0:29:26 > 0:29:30"I'm going down to Fleet Street to announce my resignation".

0:29:30 > 0:29:33And 20 minutes later, he came back and said,

0:29:33 > 0:29:37"I can't find a taxi. Will you give me a lift?"

0:29:49 > 0:29:51Oh! Calcutta! was a huge deal.

0:29:51 > 0:29:53I mean, there was uproar

0:29:53 > 0:29:56and much moaning and groaning from the suburbs.

0:29:56 > 0:29:59I mean, it was a real sea change in theatre.

0:29:59 > 0:30:02It sort of broke down those last walls of censorship

0:30:02 > 0:30:06that had existed in the theatre in London for a long time.

0:30:06 > 0:30:07Lady Birdwood, what were

0:30:07 > 0:30:10your particular objections to Oh! Calcutta!?

0:30:10 > 0:30:13Well, the sickening perversion I found in it.

0:30:13 > 0:30:17I've approached the various state departments, police, etcetera,

0:30:17 > 0:30:19who are involved with these matters

0:30:19 > 0:30:22and explained to them that our intention

0:30:22 > 0:30:26is not to have a confrontation of any kind,

0:30:26 > 0:30:27but to present entertainment.

0:30:27 > 0:30:29INSTRUMENTAL

0:30:40 > 0:30:44The choreography for Oh! Calcutta! was quite avant-garde.

0:30:44 > 0:30:46They did this nude dance.

0:30:46 > 0:30:48And it was quite amazing, actually.

0:30:48 > 0:30:50And it was erotic and kind of beautiful.

0:30:54 > 0:30:57It was a very difficult show.

0:30:57 > 0:31:01We opened and it was a real smash hit.

0:31:01 > 0:31:04It had a terrible review in the New York Times.

0:31:05 > 0:31:07And, er...it didn't matter.

0:31:09 > 0:31:13It ran...seven years in London

0:31:13 > 0:31:16and 13 years in New York.

0:31:16 > 0:31:20Somehow or other, that show never got banned.

0:31:20 > 0:31:24In terms of, you know, the judicial process or the law,

0:31:24 > 0:31:26it sort of got away with it. He got away with it.

0:31:26 > 0:31:28HUBBUB

0:31:30 > 0:31:33Both Michael and my father, if they had to make a choice

0:31:33 > 0:31:36between doing something daring and doing some safe

0:31:36 > 0:31:38they would do something daring.

0:31:38 > 0:31:43And I think they both had similar interests

0:31:43 > 0:31:47in art and, you know, they liked to be with

0:31:47 > 0:31:48the young and the beautiful.

0:31:48 > 0:31:51Well, girls, you can take my word for it,

0:31:51 > 0:31:54and being a lady, I'll just say, it's as cold as it looks.

0:31:54 > 0:31:57Lyndy Hobbs for National Nine News.

0:31:57 > 0:31:59Richard Neville called me one night and said,

0:31:59 > 0:32:03"I just got a great invitation to go..." I think a Who concert.

0:32:03 > 0:32:06"But I can't go and this fabulous guy, Michael White,

0:32:06 > 0:32:09"has got the tickets. Why don't you go?"

0:32:09 > 0:32:13And so, like a game Aussie girl, I said, "Fine".

0:32:13 > 0:32:15And Michael pulled up and tooted the horn

0:32:15 > 0:32:19and I looked out the window and there was this fabulous blue Jensen.

0:32:19 > 0:32:23And he just was...very, very nice.

0:32:23 > 0:32:28So I moved in with Michael, I'd say within about six, seven months.

0:32:30 > 0:32:34So, yes, that was the beginning of the...I would say, the heyday.

0:32:34 > 0:32:36The Michael White-Lyndall, um...

0:32:36 > 0:32:39I suppose nine years at Egerton Crescent.

0:32:39 > 0:32:43Just an amazing, you know, kind of magical,

0:32:43 > 0:32:45extraordinary time filled with

0:32:45 > 0:32:48dinners and parties and West End openings.

0:32:48 > 0:32:50And it was weekends in Paris,

0:32:50 > 0:32:52it was weekends in the South of France.

0:32:52 > 0:32:55We'd have these unbelievable lunches out on this huge table.

0:32:55 > 0:32:58And the Lycett Greens would be there and Nell and Gael.

0:32:58 > 0:33:01And that was the time when he really was

0:33:01 > 0:33:04the, you know, impresario of the day.

0:33:09 > 0:33:11Can you imagine?

0:33:11 > 0:33:13We came from Australia. Huh!

0:33:13 > 0:33:15We didn't really know that many people when we arrived

0:33:15 > 0:33:19and we met Chalk and he created this life for us that was unbelievable.

0:33:19 > 0:33:23And we got to know the most extraordinary people of our time.

0:33:23 > 0:33:27Actors, songwriters and royalty.

0:33:27 > 0:33:29And, you know, Prince Charles was around for dinner

0:33:29 > 0:33:32with, you know, Bowie and Iman and...

0:33:32 > 0:33:34Yeah, he was amazing at mixing people

0:33:34 > 0:33:37with just such fascinating backgrounds and interests

0:33:37 > 0:33:39and it was... It was pretty wild.

0:33:39 > 0:33:42He was living in this enormous house in Notting Hill Gate.

0:33:42 > 0:33:46And he was divorced and had custody of his three children,

0:33:46 > 0:33:48which was very unusual in 1973.

0:33:48 > 0:33:50They were mostly at boarding school,

0:33:50 > 0:33:52but there was something rather exotic about him

0:33:52 > 0:33:54having these three children.

0:33:54 > 0:33:56Lots of late nights, lots of drugs,

0:33:56 > 0:33:57lots of drinking, lots of parties.

0:33:57 > 0:34:02Michael sort of introduced me to bohemia, I suppose.

0:34:02 > 0:34:06I sort of came from a kind of very establishment English background

0:34:06 > 0:34:10and he sort of opened up my world to artists.

0:34:10 > 0:34:14And as he had the sort of THE salon of London,

0:34:14 > 0:34:17and he'd say, "Do you want to come to dinner?"

0:34:17 > 0:34:21And if you were lucky enough to sort of be,

0:34:21 > 0:34:24you know, one of his chosen girls that he liked,

0:34:24 > 0:34:26you were just denied nothing.

0:34:26 > 0:34:30He had this extraordinary ability to combine

0:34:30 > 0:34:34the artistic people with people in sort of society.

0:34:34 > 0:34:37Or in those days, there was still a bit of a class system.

0:34:37 > 0:34:38In those days, one's got to remember

0:34:38 > 0:34:40the paparazzi weren't as bad as they are today

0:34:40 > 0:34:43and people didn't have publicists and people didn't have...

0:34:43 > 0:34:45There wasn't this sort of celebrity culture.

0:34:45 > 0:34:48But had there been this celebrity culture,

0:34:48 > 0:34:50Michael was in the heart of it.

0:34:50 > 0:34:53There were no cellphones, there was no internet,

0:34:53 > 0:34:54there were no computers.

0:34:54 > 0:34:58You couldn't invite people via Facebook or e-mail.

0:34:58 > 0:34:59We just never stopped.

0:34:59 > 0:35:01It was incredibly social.

0:35:01 > 0:35:06And we did it all just...yeah, on an old phone.

0:35:12 > 0:35:14LOW CHATTER

0:35:15 > 0:35:19Well, Michael was, by now, loving the Aussie contingent

0:35:19 > 0:35:23who were at our house almost four nights a week for dinners and things.

0:35:23 > 0:35:25And one of them, of course, was Brian Thomson

0:35:25 > 0:35:27and Jim Sharman, who was in town.

0:35:27 > 0:35:29I was aware of Michael White

0:35:29 > 0:35:32as an adventurous and interesting producer,

0:35:32 > 0:35:33even when I was in Australia.

0:35:33 > 0:35:37So when I was trying to get a musical, that was then called

0:35:37 > 0:35:39They Came From Denton High, happening

0:35:39 > 0:35:41at the Theatre Upstairs at the Royal Court,

0:35:41 > 0:35:45I said, "Is this something that would interest Michael White?"

0:35:45 > 0:35:48# Science fiction

0:35:48 > 0:35:50# Ooo-ooo-ooo

0:35:50 > 0:35:53# Double feature

0:35:53 > 0:35:55# Ooo-ooo-ooo

0:35:55 > 0:35:58# Dr X

0:35:58 > 0:36:00# Ooo-ooo-ooo

0:36:00 > 0:36:04# Will build a creature...#

0:36:05 > 0:36:08I do recall going to a basement

0:36:08 > 0:36:10off the King's Road somewhere one evening

0:36:10 > 0:36:14with an acoustic guitar and playing some songs.

0:36:14 > 0:36:17Michael was a theatre producer that was

0:36:17 > 0:36:20just a little bit edgy, out there.

0:36:20 > 0:36:25The only producer in the West End that was really hip in those days.

0:36:25 > 0:36:27# I knew Leo G Carrol

0:36:27 > 0:36:29# Was over a barrel

0:36:29 > 0:36:33# When tarantula took to the hills... #

0:36:33 > 0:36:37The Theatre Upstairs at the Royal Court's a 60-seat theatre.

0:36:37 > 0:36:39And that's... It's minute.

0:36:39 > 0:36:42And, um...there was no dressing rooms.

0:36:42 > 0:36:45So we all had to dress in the office.

0:36:45 > 0:36:48So I met the world and his wife.

0:36:48 > 0:36:50# Science fiction

0:36:50 > 0:36:52# Ooo-ooo-ooo

0:36:52 > 0:36:54# Double feature

0:36:54 > 0:36:56# Ooo-ooo-ooo... #

0:36:56 > 0:36:59I remember going to a preview of Rocky Horror Show

0:36:59 > 0:37:01at the Theatre Upstairs

0:37:01 > 0:37:04when really nobody knew anything about it.

0:37:04 > 0:37:09And I remember being grabbed by the masked ushers and usherettes

0:37:09 > 0:37:12and thinking, "What the fuck is going on here?"

0:37:12 > 0:37:13It made me really furious.

0:37:13 > 0:37:17Greatest thing about the show was Tim Curry's entrance,

0:37:17 > 0:37:19which in the film, is in the lift.

0:37:19 > 0:37:23But on the stage, he came from the back, down a ramp.

0:37:23 > 0:37:28So it was fantastic because suddenly, you had, you know,

0:37:28 > 0:37:30"How d'you do? Ah!"

0:37:30 > 0:37:34And the whole audience went, "Whoa!" You know, "What's that?!"

0:37:34 > 0:37:36# I'm just a sweet transvestite

0:37:38 > 0:37:41# From Transsexual

0:37:41 > 0:37:44# Transylvania

0:37:44 > 0:37:47# Uh-huh. #

0:37:47 > 0:37:49I thought it would have limited appeal.

0:37:49 > 0:37:52To people who liked the same kinds of things that I did,

0:37:52 > 0:37:56but I thought that we were a pretty small group of low-brow,

0:37:56 > 0:38:00kind of liked sci-fi, horror, rock'n'roll.

0:38:00 > 0:38:04So I didn't think it would really have that much longevity.

0:38:06 > 0:38:08I'd turned 20 two weeks before we opened

0:38:08 > 0:38:12and I sort of took everything in my stride, as one does at that age.

0:38:12 > 0:38:15And then it was this immediate overnight sensation,

0:38:15 > 0:38:17which, I guess, I also took in my...

0:38:17 > 0:38:21"Oh, so this is what happens when you're in a show in London!"

0:38:21 > 0:38:25If anybody had said this thing will be around in 35 or 40 years,

0:38:25 > 0:38:28you would have been howled down. "Oh, don't be stupid. Don't..."

0:38:28 > 0:38:32It just sort of took off in a way that nobody

0:38:32 > 0:38:35was able to kind of comprehend or understand.

0:38:35 > 0:38:36It was like wildfire.

0:38:36 > 0:38:40Within days, it was sold out at the Royal Court

0:38:40 > 0:38:44and became the hottest thing that had happened for years

0:38:44 > 0:38:46in the theatre in London.

0:38:46 > 0:38:48And then Michael had the brilliant idea of moving it,

0:38:48 > 0:38:50not to a conventional theatre,

0:38:50 > 0:38:53but to this old cinema on King's Road

0:38:53 > 0:38:57that was kind of shabby and rundown.

0:38:57 > 0:39:00I think for nearly seven years, Rocky Horror played,

0:39:00 > 0:39:02but it never played in a conventional venue.

0:39:02 > 0:39:05# It's just a jump to the left... #

0:39:06 > 0:39:08At the time, I was involved with Britt Ekland

0:39:08 > 0:39:13and she took me to see the show on King's Road and Michael was there.

0:39:13 > 0:39:15At that point, I started talking about

0:39:15 > 0:39:19the possibilities of bringing it to the United States.

0:39:19 > 0:39:24I think he liked the idea that there was rock'n'roll involved,

0:39:24 > 0:39:27as far as what I was involved in,

0:39:27 > 0:39:30and also bringing it to the Roxy,

0:39:30 > 0:39:35a club theatre on Sunset Boulevard.

0:39:35 > 0:39:37And, er...we made a deal.

0:39:37 > 0:39:40Michael allowed him to get involved in the show

0:39:40 > 0:39:43and to put it on at his theatre in LA.

0:39:43 > 0:39:49And Michael went over and got involved with this woman

0:39:49 > 0:39:52who seemed to have a lot of very good drugs.

0:39:52 > 0:39:56And Lou sort of said to Michael,

0:39:56 > 0:39:58"You know what? You've done all of this.

0:39:58 > 0:40:01"You just go up the coast and have a nice time

0:40:01 > 0:40:05"and I'll put it all together and we'll..." Ba-ba-ba.

0:40:05 > 0:40:07And Mike was just signing contracts.

0:40:07 > 0:40:13And those contracts, Michael gave the shop away.

0:40:13 > 0:40:19And Lou is a tough rock'n'roll businessman.

0:40:21 > 0:40:24But Michael lost that show as a result of it.

0:40:24 > 0:40:28# Let's do the Time Warp again

0:40:28 > 0:40:31# Let's do the... #

0:40:31 > 0:40:35I invested nothing in the film and neither did Michael.

0:40:35 > 0:40:3720th Century Fox put it up.

0:40:37 > 0:40:42We put up some money to secure it and guarantee it,

0:40:42 > 0:40:45but, um...Fox put up the money.

0:40:45 > 0:40:48So, who owns Rocky Horror now?

0:40:48 > 0:40:51Er...as far as the, er...

0:40:51 > 0:40:55I don't know. I mean, why are you asking that question?

0:40:55 > 0:40:58Is this a question Michael wants to know the answer, or...?

0:40:58 > 0:41:00No, it's Fox owns it, I own it

0:41:00 > 0:41:06and, er...Michael sold his company and his name, basically,

0:41:06 > 0:41:09to, um...a Dutch bank.

0:41:09 > 0:41:14And that's who participates in the film at this point.

0:41:14 > 0:41:17# With your hands on you hips

0:41:17 > 0:41:20# You bring your knees in tight

0:41:20 > 0:41:22# But it's the pelvic thrust...#

0:41:23 > 0:41:26I did a deal with Lou Adler.

0:41:27 > 0:41:30A pathetic deal for me. Ha-ha!

0:41:30 > 0:41:31And, er...

0:41:35 > 0:41:37What was the deal?

0:41:37 > 0:41:39I don't know remember the deal.

0:41:39 > 0:41:42HE CHUCKLES The details of the deal.

0:41:42 > 0:41:44But it wasn't good for me.

0:41:45 > 0:41:47Then why did you sign it?

0:41:47 > 0:41:49Why did you sign it, then?

0:41:49 > 0:41:51Didn't you have control over everything at the time?

0:41:51 > 0:41:53I did have control.

0:41:54 > 0:41:56But...

0:41:58 > 0:42:01Yeah. We'll go on tomorrow.

0:42:01 > 0:42:02No, we can go on for a bit more.

0:42:02 > 0:42:05I can't go on. Enough.

0:42:18 > 0:42:22This is one of your new boxes that you've just brought.

0:42:22 > 0:42:23You've added.

0:42:23 > 0:42:25This is full of diaries.

0:42:25 > 0:42:29Don't you want one that's got interesting things in it?

0:42:33 > 0:42:36Have you got a strategy? What is it you want to keep?

0:42:36 > 0:42:39The invites, photographs and interesting letters

0:42:39 > 0:42:41- and press cuttings?- He says he can't throw anything away.

0:42:43 > 0:42:45Michael said he can't throw anything away?

0:42:45 > 0:42:47No, I know he can't. He's a hoarder.

0:42:47 > 0:42:48I was trying to ask Michael,

0:42:48 > 0:42:52how many productions do you think are in this room?

0:42:52 > 0:42:54From the plays?

0:42:55 > 0:42:58Oh, paperwork for, I don't know, 30 productions.

0:42:58 > 0:43:00I can't throw anything out.

0:43:00 > 0:43:05There's piles more boxes in other places, in numerous locations.

0:43:05 > 0:43:09This is just scraping the surface.

0:43:09 > 0:43:10I can't do it.

0:43:11 > 0:43:13This is all invites in here.

0:43:13 > 0:43:18- I mean, just zillions of invites. - I feel ill.

0:43:19 > 0:43:22Do you actually remember half the events you've been to?

0:43:23 > 0:43:26At least you're not sleeping on top of all of this

0:43:26 > 0:43:28- like Bill Cunningham with his photographs.- Yes!

0:43:31 > 0:43:33I love your sophisticated book-keeping here.

0:43:34 > 0:43:39The list, handwritten pages and pages and pages of investors.

0:43:39 > 0:43:42- People.- Really?- You know.

0:43:42 > 0:43:47- Here. Here. Here!- Just a minute. - Just a moment.

0:43:49 > 0:43:52Throw them out. Throw them out.

0:43:56 > 0:44:00Thursday here at Sotheby's we'll be having a sale of

0:44:00 > 0:44:03English literature and history from Michael White's archive.

0:44:03 > 0:44:06So we're selling a collection of posters

0:44:06 > 0:44:07and his correspondence

0:44:07 > 0:44:09which is about 1,500 letters

0:44:09 > 0:44:14by a huge range of writers, actors,

0:44:14 > 0:44:16celebrities.

0:44:16 > 0:44:20So, yeah, it's quite an exceptional range of material.

0:44:20 > 0:44:23Mad. It's mad.

0:44:23 > 0:44:251,500 letters are going into the auction

0:44:25 > 0:44:29and Michael wants them all copied so that he knows what's there.

0:44:29 > 0:44:33But it's like, you know, a week before the auction

0:44:33 > 0:44:35so it's not very...

0:44:35 > 0:44:37It's a bit late in the day.

0:44:39 > 0:44:42An incredibly nice letter. Flattering.

0:44:44 > 0:44:46Truthful.

0:44:46 > 0:44:47Meaningful.

0:44:47 > 0:44:50- You should keep this one, then.- No.

0:44:58 > 0:45:01I get ill when I see all those letters.

0:45:03 > 0:45:04From everyone.

0:45:08 > 0:45:13These are all the ones that I've put into the folders originally.

0:45:13 > 0:45:15And they've copied all of them.

0:45:17 > 0:45:19I've forgotten these letters.

0:45:23 > 0:45:25Paul McCartney.

0:45:32 > 0:45:35Some amazing letters. Amazing.

0:45:37 > 0:45:40- AUCTIONEER:- We begin this morning...

0:45:40 > 0:45:43MUFFLED PATTER

0:45:43 > 0:45:46At £1,000, £1,100.

0:45:46 > 0:45:49Lots of ephemera here. £2,000 to start it.

0:45:49 > 0:45:512,200, 2,400.

0:45:51 > 0:45:535,000.

0:45:54 > 0:45:55Thank you very much.

0:45:55 > 0:45:58He was very attached to a lot of things that he sold

0:45:58 > 0:46:01because I mean, he used to have an amazing art collection

0:46:01 > 0:46:04and he got rid of all his furniture and all kinds of things.

0:46:04 > 0:46:07And he really needed the money.

0:46:07 > 0:46:10Had he not been in the situation that he was in,

0:46:10 > 0:46:13he would probably not have sold anything

0:46:13 > 0:46:15and he would have left it for his children.

0:46:22 > 0:46:24I remember it - it seems only yesterday,

0:46:24 > 0:46:28Norm and I going over all the pros and cons finance-wise

0:46:28 > 0:46:30on the kitchen table.

0:46:31 > 0:46:34'I'd done one of my shows before in London in the late '60s

0:46:34 > 0:46:36'and it had not really caught on.'

0:46:36 > 0:46:41And I decided that whatever I did in Australia would be done in Australia

0:46:41 > 0:46:44and I wouldn't attempt to do them anywhere else.

0:46:44 > 0:46:46Michael thought otherwise.

0:46:46 > 0:46:48And with encouragement of

0:46:48 > 0:46:51his then-girlfriend, Lyndall Hobbs,

0:46:51 > 0:46:55he produced me at the Apollo Theatre

0:46:55 > 0:46:59in Shaftesbury Avenue and we had a huge success with it.

0:46:59 > 0:47:02And then I decided to take him to New York

0:47:02 > 0:47:05and people didn't think he was a man.

0:47:05 > 0:47:07They thought it was a woman.

0:47:08 > 0:47:10It didn't go down at all well.

0:47:10 > 0:47:14Tell everyone, Dame Edna, just what it is that brings you to New York.

0:47:14 > 0:47:17Well, I'm really in New York, darling,

0:47:17 > 0:47:19- for Jacqueline Onassis's wedding. - Really?

0:47:19 > 0:47:21I haven't received the invitation yet,

0:47:21 > 0:47:25- but that's just a little formality, isn't it, sweetheart?- OK, OK.

0:47:25 > 0:47:28Oh, it's lovely to have you on the show, Madeline Kahn, it really is.

0:47:28 > 0:47:32'I remember at the age of like 22, I guess,'

0:47:32 > 0:47:34going to the opening of Barry Humphries on Broadway

0:47:34 > 0:47:36and then going to Sardi's afterwards

0:47:36 > 0:47:38and waiting for the reviews to come in.

0:47:38 > 0:47:40And I remember Michael going up the stairs to...

0:47:40 > 0:47:43The New York Times used to come through at about

0:47:43 > 0:47:4611 o'clock at night.

0:47:46 > 0:47:49And the story was that if the show was a hit

0:47:49 > 0:47:51then these reviews would come down very quickly

0:47:51 > 0:47:53from the eighth floor to the party.

0:47:53 > 0:47:57So I went in an elevator up to the eighth floor with Barry.

0:47:57 > 0:48:03And I opened a door and I saw Michael White slumped at a table

0:48:03 > 0:48:07with the New York Times open in front of him.

0:48:07 > 0:48:09His head was in his hands.

0:48:09 > 0:48:14His hair, this modified afro hairstyle that he had...

0:48:15 > 0:48:17Can you say afro now? Probably not.

0:48:18 > 0:48:21Already greying slightly.

0:48:21 > 0:48:23It sort of got greyer as I looked at it.

0:48:25 > 0:48:26I didn't interrupt him.

0:48:26 > 0:48:30I knew the verdict of The Times critic already.

0:48:31 > 0:48:33So I went back to the party

0:48:33 > 0:48:36and when I got there the room was empty.

0:48:38 > 0:48:41The news travels fast,

0:48:41 > 0:48:47and failure on Broadway is like leprosy.

0:48:47 > 0:48:49People don't want to catch it.

0:48:49 > 0:48:51And the show should have closed the next day.

0:48:51 > 0:48:54But Barry didn't want it to close

0:48:54 > 0:48:58because he wanted not to be humiliated, understandably.

0:48:58 > 0:49:02So he said to Michael, "Look, if you keep supporting the show

0:49:02 > 0:49:06"I'll bring my next show to you in London."

0:49:06 > 0:49:09And I said to Michael, "Get it in writing."

0:49:09 > 0:49:12And he said, "No, no, no, I totally trust Barry.

0:49:12 > 0:49:14"I totally trust Barry."

0:49:14 > 0:49:17So Michael, having made all of this money

0:49:17 > 0:49:20on the original Housewife Superstar

0:49:20 > 0:49:24then loses that, plus, in New York.

0:49:24 > 0:49:28No, I'm never sure to this day whether Barry actually knew

0:49:28 > 0:49:32how determined Michael was

0:49:32 > 0:49:36that Barry was not going to lose face over the show.

0:49:38 > 0:49:42I fell out with him a couple of years later

0:49:42 > 0:49:45because I put on another show in London

0:49:45 > 0:49:47produced by different people.

0:49:47 > 0:49:49I'd said to them, "Look, I think I have

0:49:49 > 0:49:51"a commitment, an obligation to Michael."

0:49:51 > 0:49:55And I think they told Michael White another story altogether.

0:49:55 > 0:49:59So Michael's integrity's always been that,

0:49:59 > 0:50:01"I've shaken hands with somebody. That's a deal."

0:50:01 > 0:50:07It is part of his make-up that he just absolutely trusts people.

0:50:07 > 0:50:08Barry was wonderful.

0:50:10 > 0:50:16And he became a very close friend of mine.

0:50:23 > 0:50:26The West End theatre has enjoyed a boom for almost 30 years.

0:50:26 > 0:50:30But the recent drastic rise in costs comes at a time

0:50:30 > 0:50:33when audiences have started to fall.

0:50:33 > 0:50:35Those who put the shows on

0:50:35 > 0:50:37say the theatre is about to suffer its biggest crisis

0:50:37 > 0:50:39- for 30 years. - How difficult is it

0:50:39 > 0:50:42to get angels to invest money in shows now?

0:50:42 > 0:50:44Well, it's much more difficult than it was.

0:50:44 > 0:50:46Like, in the '60s, it was very easy.

0:50:46 > 0:50:52We got money at the drop of a hat even for the most improbable shows.

0:50:52 > 0:50:57Today it's very difficult. Everyone is hard up, or squeezed.

0:50:57 > 0:51:00The thing one has to remember about Michael is that he was,

0:51:00 > 0:51:03on the one hand an innovative, bold young producer.

0:51:03 > 0:51:06But he also had to make money. He also had to have

0:51:06 > 0:51:09a steady succession, if possible, of hit shows.

0:51:09 > 0:51:106, 7, 8.

0:51:15 > 0:51:17And that explains why he does shows

0:51:17 > 0:51:22like A Chorus Line or Annie or thrillers like Sleuth or Deathtrap.

0:51:22 > 0:51:25He managed to combine these two roles -

0:51:25 > 0:51:27the producer of the occasional smash,

0:51:27 > 0:51:31and at the same time rather unusual or experimental work.

0:51:31 > 0:51:35So what I'm saying is, Michael White was a product of his time

0:51:35 > 0:51:38and I think that time has now changed and gone, probably for ever.

0:51:38 > 0:51:41He really was about, "Let's put the show on.

0:51:41 > 0:51:43"Let's get it on." If he believed in it.

0:51:43 > 0:51:45And the reason he should go down in history

0:51:45 > 0:51:46is because he would just foster

0:51:46 > 0:51:50so much talent that otherwise wouldn't have gotten a chance.

0:51:50 > 0:51:52What's interesting, I think, about Michael

0:51:52 > 0:51:54is that he's always been drawn

0:51:54 > 0:51:57more to the excitement than to the money.

0:51:57 > 0:51:59There've been a few situations

0:51:59 > 0:52:02where he could have gone more into the mainstream

0:52:02 > 0:52:05where he had an opportunity with people like Andrew Lloyd-Webber

0:52:05 > 0:52:08to ride a very successful gravy train.

0:52:08 > 0:52:11And I think it just didn't interest him.

0:52:11 > 0:52:13And I think that he took the same kind of...

0:52:13 > 0:52:16theatrical spirit of adventure

0:52:16 > 0:52:20that he had been working on in the stage into cinema,

0:52:20 > 0:52:25and so I think he continued to just bet on people.

0:52:33 > 0:52:38If you will not show us the grail, we shall take your castle by force!

0:52:38 > 0:52:41You don't frighten us, English pig dogs!

0:52:41 > 0:52:44Go and boil your bottoms!

0:52:44 > 0:52:46'Just last week I was in Los Angeles

0:52:46 > 0:52:49'and I realised it was 40 years

0:52:49 > 0:52:52'since I had gone into Michael White's office,

0:52:52 > 0:52:54'met John Goldstone for the first time'

0:52:54 > 0:52:59and we had started talking about how to get finance

0:52:59 > 0:53:02for what turned out to be The Holy Grail.

0:53:02 > 0:53:07And again, he was very supportive. He loved the script,

0:53:07 > 0:53:10which went through an extraordinary amount of changes.

0:53:10 > 0:53:13I fart in your general direction.

0:53:13 > 0:53:14Your mother was a hamster

0:53:14 > 0:53:18and your father smelt of elderberries.

0:53:18 > 0:53:23'They somehow got together what I believe was £240,000.

0:53:23 > 0:53:27'And somebody rang me up

0:53:27 > 0:53:31'saying would I mind sharing a hotel room during the course?'

0:53:31 > 0:53:36And I remember saying, "I thought I was a film star!"

0:53:36 > 0:53:39And it was a pretty sparse production.

0:53:39 > 0:53:43And you got on the mountainside at eight o'clock in the morning

0:53:43 > 0:53:45and at ten past it rained.

0:53:45 > 0:53:49And there were about 12 large umbrellas for about 60 people.

0:53:49 > 0:53:54And at the end there was this mad rush

0:53:54 > 0:53:57to try and get back to the hotel to get a hot bath

0:53:57 > 0:53:59because you were freezing, you know.

0:53:59 > 0:54:02You know, I took LSD, so I don't remember things that clearly.

0:54:02 > 0:54:05But I do remember Michael at the premiere in Cannes

0:54:05 > 0:54:09because it was one of the most exciting nights of my life.

0:54:09 > 0:54:11It was the first time we were going to see the Odorama card

0:54:11 > 0:54:13with a live audience. And people smashed the doors,

0:54:13 > 0:54:16there was broken glass and everything, to get in.

0:54:16 > 0:54:17It was really thrilling to me.

0:54:17 > 0:54:20And we saw everybody doing the cards, and it worked.

0:54:20 > 0:54:23- Yeah, I got something I want to show you.- Yes?

0:54:23 > 0:54:27It's long, and it's sleek,

0:54:27 > 0:54:31- and it's powerful. - Ooh, what is it, Todd?

0:54:31 > 0:54:33It was something international.

0:54:33 > 0:54:35I've never seen an audience in any country in the world -

0:54:35 > 0:54:38capitalism, communism, anarchy -

0:54:38 > 0:54:41not dive to scratch and smell a fart and give me money.

0:54:41 > 0:54:44It was a perfect thing for Michael to be a part of.

0:54:44 > 0:54:47It was so much fun to go to a theatre

0:54:47 > 0:54:50and Number 3 show up and everybody's, "Where's fart?"

0:54:50 > 0:54:52Oh, you don't know what it is,

0:54:52 > 0:54:55and everybody in the whole audience goes, "Oh, I can't stand it."

0:54:55 > 0:54:59Then number 7 was dirty socks and, "Oh, no, it's unbelievable."

0:54:59 > 0:55:01And people were having so much fun in the theatre

0:55:01 > 0:55:03and Michael was having fun.

0:55:14 > 0:55:16The peak of that time

0:55:16 > 0:55:20that I was doing films in my 20s was White Mischief

0:55:20 > 0:55:24which was a film that's remained quite iconic for me which was

0:55:24 > 0:55:31again largely helped into existence by Michael White.

0:55:31 > 0:55:35He was there with it from the moment he gave me the book.

0:55:37 > 0:55:40Michael asked me to be in the film he was making,

0:55:40 > 0:55:41The Turn Of The Screw.

0:55:41 > 0:55:45My character, I remember, modelling very much on Brian Jones

0:55:45 > 0:55:49so he was just too out of it to be able to take care of his children.

0:55:49 > 0:55:53And we played the whole thing from an opium bed.

0:55:53 > 0:55:56I mean, I know what you're talking about.

0:55:56 > 0:55:58I don't REALLY know what you're talking about.

0:55:58 > 0:56:01'I went to my agent, Peggy Ramsay, and I said,

0:56:01 > 0:56:05'"We're all set to make this movie. We've lost the money."

0:56:05 > 0:56:09'And she called Michael White and he...'

0:56:09 > 0:56:12said yes immediately.

0:56:12 > 0:56:17I mean, he wrote us a very large cheque instantly.

0:56:17 > 0:56:20It got mostly bad reviews.

0:56:20 > 0:56:21The New York Times said

0:56:21 > 0:56:25it was a sort of Winnie the Pooh kind of fable,

0:56:25 > 0:56:27if you liked that sort of thing.

0:56:27 > 0:56:29Michael said, "Don't worry, boys.

0:56:29 > 0:56:32"Every party I go to,

0:56:32 > 0:56:35"all they're talking about is your movie.

0:56:35 > 0:56:39"It's just going to be a matter of time before it clicks."

0:56:39 > 0:56:41And of course it did.

0:56:41 > 0:56:43Making a film of something that's been proven

0:56:43 > 0:56:45a success in another format,

0:56:45 > 0:56:48whether it's a book or a theatre show, helps enormously.

0:56:48 > 0:56:50What's more interesting is when you try and do

0:56:50 > 0:56:52something like The Comic Strip

0:56:52 > 0:56:55because taking that group of people, putting them together

0:56:55 > 0:56:57it wouldn't necessarily work, you know.

0:56:57 > 0:56:59You're not sure that it's going to take off in the way it did.

0:56:59 > 0:57:03But he really rode the zeitgeist and I think he's very good at that.

0:57:03 > 0:57:06Well, if I lived here I wouldn't be bored.

0:57:06 > 0:57:07I think you're jolly lucky.

0:57:07 > 0:57:11Yes, I can't wait to go exploring for sea shells and wild flowers.

0:57:11 > 0:57:12I talked to Michael and I said,

0:57:12 > 0:57:16"Michael, I've got these fantastic comedians I'm working with,

0:57:16 > 0:57:19"Rik Mayall, Alexei Sayle and all these people,

0:57:19 > 0:57:21"and would you produce these films with us?"

0:57:21 > 0:57:24We trusted Michael and we all loved him

0:57:24 > 0:57:26and so Michael went, "How much do you want?"

0:57:26 > 0:57:28People used to come up with the craziest ideas

0:57:28 > 0:57:30and Michael would just kind of jump in.

0:57:30 > 0:57:32I think that's why so many good things did happen

0:57:32 > 0:57:34because Michael was impulsive that way.

0:57:34 > 0:57:36Name me one thing, just one thing,

0:57:36 > 0:57:38in that entire programme that you find offensive.

0:57:40 > 0:57:43The item about how to get big things in your mouth.

0:57:43 > 0:57:45Is that all? We could have cut that.

0:57:45 > 0:57:47'Michael gave some great performances,

0:57:47 > 0:57:49'very well-lit performances.'

0:57:49 > 0:57:52But yes, he appears in three or four Comic Strip films,

0:57:52 > 0:57:54er...

0:57:54 > 0:57:58as characters remarkably like himself.

0:57:58 > 0:58:01It was very nice having this strange man behind us.

0:58:01 > 0:58:03How much?

0:58:03 > 0:58:07And I think the reason he's not Sir Michael White

0:58:07 > 0:58:11or Lord White of Soho, or something like that,

0:58:11 > 0:58:16is because he's a subversive, because he's an alternative type

0:58:16 > 0:58:17and he's not Establishment.

0:58:19 > 0:58:22You know, the word "producer", especially

0:58:22 > 0:58:26now that there's so much emphasis on movies and everything,

0:58:26 > 0:58:30it's slightly lost its importance.

0:58:30 > 0:58:34It's slightly become really about raising money.

0:58:34 > 0:58:39And the thing that has always impressed me about Michael

0:58:39 > 0:58:44is that he's more for me like an experimental impresario,

0:58:44 > 0:58:47because all of Michael's work,

0:58:47 > 0:58:51in very different ways, all says,

0:58:51 > 0:58:53"Wake up. Don't be apathetic.

0:58:53 > 0:58:56"Get out of your seats and think."

0:59:08 > 0:59:11It's said that you've cultivated a semi-playboy image,

0:59:11 > 0:59:14and I say semi, because you work rather hard at the same time.

0:59:14 > 0:59:15Is that fair?

0:59:15 > 0:59:17- Yes, that's not unfair.- Why?

0:59:17 > 0:59:20I don't think there's anything wrong with being a playboy.

0:59:20 > 0:59:23I think beautiful women are very...

0:59:23 > 0:59:27They're like, you know, people go to museums to look at pictures.

0:59:27 > 0:59:29They're like living pictures.

0:59:29 > 0:59:32Some people would say that's a very sexist remark, of course.

0:59:32 > 0:59:34It works on both...

0:59:34 > 0:59:40Well, I could feel the same way about looking at a very good-looking man.

0:59:40 > 0:59:43It's to do with inner spirit as well, with character.

0:59:43 > 0:59:46There is no such thing as a beautiful person

0:59:46 > 0:59:48unless they have something inside as well.

0:59:49 > 0:59:52He really likes women. He likes strong women.

0:59:52 > 0:59:54He likes fascinating women.

0:59:54 > 0:59:57He's not afraid of women. He embraces women.

0:59:57 > 1:00:01He's not, like, Mr Suave. He's no George Clooney, you know?

1:00:01 > 1:00:03He's, like, a funny guy,

1:00:03 > 1:00:08and I think that really gets... gets him places, you know.

1:00:08 > 1:00:10He's always been around very beautiful women

1:00:10 > 1:00:13but they've always been something more, you know.

1:00:13 > 1:00:16Whether you meet Naomi, or Thandie Newton,

1:00:16 > 1:00:19or whether it's Luelle Bartley, all these people that you sort of meet

1:00:19 > 1:00:22and often at the very beginning of their careers

1:00:22 > 1:00:23and they go on to do great things.

1:00:23 > 1:00:27But he spots it straight away, that's what's interesting.

1:00:27 > 1:00:29Michael's never been old.

1:00:29 > 1:00:32I mean, Michael has always just been in touch with

1:00:32 > 1:00:35whatever's been happening, and particularly with young people.

1:00:35 > 1:00:38I mean, he certainly was by far the first person to talk to me

1:00:38 > 1:00:42about Kate Moss, way before any agent or any editor.

1:00:42 > 1:00:46I mean, he just saw her beauty and her strength.

1:00:46 > 1:00:49And he always used to say to me, "But there's only one Kate."

1:00:49 > 1:00:52He was just such a good friend to hang out with.

1:00:52 > 1:00:53I always felt really safe with him.

1:00:53 > 1:00:56And you know, he'd always make sure I got home OK,

1:00:56 > 1:00:58even if we were out till six in the morning, you know.

1:00:58 > 1:01:01And he'd take me to really interesting people's apartments.

1:01:01 > 1:01:04I'd never seen anything like it. Like...I was from Croydon.

1:01:04 > 1:01:07I didn't really go to Fifth Avenue apartments, you know.

1:01:07 > 1:01:09It was just always... It was just exciting.

1:01:09 > 1:01:12You know, they're not going out with him because he's rich any more.

1:01:12 > 1:01:14That's not the reason.

1:01:14 > 1:01:19So all those guys who can kind of be critical of him

1:01:19 > 1:01:22because he's always with younger women "because of his money",

1:01:22 > 1:01:24well, that's not the case.

1:01:24 > 1:01:28So he must have something that makes him good company.

1:01:28 > 1:01:30Early on, someone said to me,

1:01:30 > 1:01:33"Oh, he's a producer, but he's a playboy as well."

1:01:33 > 1:01:35I always thought that was a great way of defining it,

1:01:35 > 1:01:38that this sort of way that he could be both things

1:01:38 > 1:01:40and taken seriously at both things.

1:01:40 > 1:01:44Because obviously he worked incredibly hard at what he did

1:01:44 > 1:01:47and he had this incredible success rate.

1:01:57 > 1:01:59The winner is

1:01:59 > 1:02:00Crazy For You.

1:02:00 > 1:02:02APPLAUSE

1:02:02 > 1:02:04I was sitting next to Michael

1:02:04 > 1:02:06on the night and he said, "I think we've won."

1:02:06 > 1:02:08And I think he realised then that he was back,

1:02:08 > 1:02:12because he'd had a few years when he hadn't really been doing theatre.

1:02:12 > 1:02:15He'd done some films and he'd just not been in the West End.

1:02:15 > 1:02:17Suddenly he was back.

1:02:17 > 1:02:19The award goes to She Loves Me.

1:02:19 > 1:02:20APPLAUSE AND CHEERING

1:02:22 > 1:02:24She Loves Me won five Olivier Awards

1:02:24 > 1:02:27which was more at that point than any other show had ever won,

1:02:27 > 1:02:30and it didn't sell at all.

1:02:30 > 1:02:31We ran for a year

1:02:31 > 1:02:35and there was one week in the 52

1:02:35 > 1:02:37that we actually made the break figure.

1:02:37 > 1:02:41Just to thank all the small investors who keep the West End open

1:02:41 > 1:02:44and support it without much thanks.

1:02:44 > 1:02:46But I'd like to thank them all.

1:02:46 > 1:02:49He did confide to me at one point

1:02:49 > 1:02:52that it was becoming harder and harder

1:02:52 > 1:02:55to be an independent impresario producer.

1:02:55 > 1:02:59That it was becoming more of a struggle

1:02:59 > 1:03:00and he was enjoying it less.

1:03:00 > 1:03:03I think that's just a sort of reflection on the way

1:03:03 > 1:03:08in which theatre and film has been changing.

1:03:08 > 1:03:11The big multinational entertainment companies

1:03:11 > 1:03:13hold a lot more power.

1:03:13 > 1:03:18And I think that for a long time he was able to persuade angels,

1:03:18 > 1:03:22as they're called in the theatre, to back him.

1:03:22 > 1:03:26But increasingly the returns became less, generally,

1:03:26 > 1:03:28and the risk higher.

1:03:40 > 1:03:44Hi. What's my account this morning?

1:03:44 > 1:03:46Only £32?

1:03:48 > 1:03:49Is that all?

1:03:52 > 1:03:53Very good.

1:03:54 > 1:03:58I'll have a bet today, at Ascot.

1:03:58 > 1:04:02Via and Lear. Three o'clock, Ascot.

1:04:06 > 1:04:0712 to 1.

1:04:07 > 1:04:09Back them singly.

1:04:09 > 1:04:12Five pounds each way.

1:04:12 > 1:04:14So what's the most money you've ever bet?

1:04:14 > 1:04:17I don't...answer that.

1:04:21 > 1:04:25Isn't the rule, "Don't bet what you can't afford to lose"?

1:04:30 > 1:04:31More or less.

1:04:40 > 1:04:44First of all, to be a theatre producer, you have to be a gambler.

1:04:44 > 1:04:49Your chances of making money are far less than losing everything.

1:04:49 > 1:04:51And of course you've got the responsibility

1:04:51 > 1:04:53of then losing everyone else's investment.

1:04:53 > 1:04:56So yes, he was a gambler on and off the course.

1:04:57 > 1:04:59Horses in his spare time.

1:04:59 > 1:05:02Thespians in his professional time.

1:05:02 > 1:05:05Well, there were mornings he would come into the office

1:05:05 > 1:05:08and hand me wodges of money and say, "I just won this last night.

1:05:08 > 1:05:11"Put it in the safe." That was quite a regular occurrence.

1:05:11 > 1:05:15The gambling part is just a big part of producing, I think.

1:05:15 > 1:05:17You're risking everything and...

1:05:17 > 1:05:21there's a chance for great success and a chance for great humiliation

1:05:21 > 1:05:25and I think it kind of keeps you living on knife-point.

1:05:25 > 1:05:27Kind of keeps you focused.

1:05:42 > 1:05:45Michael was, and is, an insane gambler.

1:05:47 > 1:05:51And his attention to detail is...hopeless.

1:05:51 > 1:05:55He started to make really insane decisions

1:05:55 > 1:05:58and I could see that he was going to...

1:05:58 > 1:06:03I mean, drugs, to be honest, drugs played a big part in it.

1:06:03 > 1:06:07He partied like it was never going to stop.

1:06:20 > 1:06:24As you know, Michael is a bit of a partygoer.

1:06:24 > 1:06:27If that's not the understatement of the year or the decade

1:06:27 > 1:06:28or possibly even the millennium.

1:06:28 > 1:06:31The thing about Michael, though, that everybody knows,

1:06:31 > 1:06:34the show's important, but the party is almost as important as the show.

1:06:34 > 1:06:37The pre-party, like the first-night party, and the after-party,

1:06:37 > 1:06:41these are things that Michael absolutely rolled up his sleeve

1:06:41 > 1:06:43and wanted to organise. He wanted every party

1:06:43 > 1:06:46to be better than the other party, the party before.

1:06:48 > 1:06:50He's definitely got a lust for life.

1:06:50 > 1:06:53Just really astonished at how much energy

1:06:53 > 1:06:58and just would not care about staying out all night.

1:06:58 > 1:07:00And still be in the office next day.

1:07:01 > 1:07:05Amazing. They don't make 'em like that any more, that's for sure.

1:07:05 > 1:07:07And do you still go out with him now? He still goes out.

1:07:07 > 1:07:10Yeah, I know. Not so much now.

1:07:10 > 1:07:13He goes out more than me. I've got a daughter.

1:07:13 > 1:07:16I remember one night in London.

1:07:16 > 1:07:19It was a Wednesday. And Michael said,

1:07:19 > 1:07:22"Come with me to the club."

1:07:22 > 1:07:26It was 2.30, three o'clock in the morning.

1:07:26 > 1:07:28Well, we walk into the club.

1:07:28 > 1:07:32Michael arriving was like a scene from Hello Dolly.

1:07:32 > 1:07:35It was just, everyone knew him.

1:07:35 > 1:07:36Everyone...

1:07:36 > 1:07:39We sat with six or seven young women,

1:07:39 > 1:07:43all of whom were thrilled to be with Michael, and I thought,

1:07:43 > 1:07:47"Wow, this is him in his natural environment."

1:07:52 > 1:07:55I think that's a fair assessment of Michael, to some extent,

1:07:55 > 1:07:57and I mean that in the nicest way.

1:07:57 > 1:08:01It seemed to me that he was incapable of growing up,

1:08:01 > 1:08:02much like myself.

1:08:04 > 1:08:07There was the eternal little boy in Michael

1:08:07 > 1:08:11and I think probably that's why he once again

1:08:11 > 1:08:14ceased being a producer, a player.

1:08:14 > 1:08:16I think while he was enjoying it

1:08:16 > 1:08:19and that little boy was being fed that was fine

1:08:19 > 1:08:23but when it got to the point where you have to start to be

1:08:23 > 1:08:27fairly ruthless, I think, to stay in the marketplace,

1:08:27 > 1:08:31I've got a sneaking suspicion that that's when Michael decided

1:08:31 > 1:08:33he didn't want to do it any more

1:08:33 > 1:08:36and would rather be enjoying life on the primrose path.

1:08:43 > 1:08:47He's had a pretty fast-track life and as far as I know,

1:08:47 > 1:08:49that's caught up a bit with him in Los Angeles

1:08:49 > 1:08:53with doing things he shouldn't do at his age, having had a stroke.

1:08:53 > 1:08:55You know, going out and partying with Jack

1:08:55 > 1:08:58and doing, well, I don't know what, but I wouldn't disclose.

1:08:58 > 1:09:00Even if I did know I wouldn't tell you.

1:09:01 > 1:09:03But all I know is he ended up in hospital,

1:09:03 > 1:09:05you know, and he's lucky to be alive.

1:09:05 > 1:09:07I mean, Jack actually saved him, I think.

1:09:07 > 1:09:10You know, got him to the best hospital and stuff.

1:09:10 > 1:09:12But you know, it's typical of Michael, isn't it, you know?

1:09:12 > 1:09:15He's had a stroke and he's still going out...

1:09:15 > 1:09:17acting like an 18-year-old.

1:09:20 > 1:09:22The first time I think he had a stroke,

1:09:22 > 1:09:24I remember being in the office

1:09:24 > 1:09:26and Miriam taking a call from Celestia Fox.

1:09:26 > 1:09:29She said, "I think there's something terribly wrong with Michael."

1:09:29 > 1:09:32He couldn't remember anyone's name. He wasn't making much sense.

1:09:32 > 1:09:34You know, she was very, very concerned.

1:09:34 > 1:09:37And for the next sort of four or five days,

1:09:37 > 1:09:40he then came into the office but then he would get lost

1:09:40 > 1:09:42sort of between, like, the Ivy and the office,

1:09:42 > 1:09:44which was obviously crazy

1:09:44 > 1:09:47because he knows the West End of London like the back of his hand.

1:09:47 > 1:09:49So we just knew something was wrong

1:09:49 > 1:09:52and we were trying to get him to go to the doctor

1:09:52 > 1:09:54and he kept saying he didn't want to go

1:09:54 > 1:09:56because I think he knew something was wrong

1:09:56 > 1:09:58and he didn't want to know what that was.

1:09:58 > 1:10:01That was really tough and that was the second time.

1:10:01 > 1:10:03And then I think the third time was in LA.

1:10:21 > 1:10:23This is the doctor book.

1:10:23 > 1:10:25Amazing book.

1:10:26 > 1:10:29Yeah. Physio. Speech.

1:10:30 > 1:10:33Masseuse - Walter.

1:10:33 > 1:10:36Chiropractor. Doctors.

1:10:36 > 1:10:39Acupuncture. GPs.

1:10:39 > 1:10:41Pilates!

1:10:41 > 1:10:44Duke Street. Healer.

1:10:44 > 1:10:46Urologist.

1:10:47 > 1:10:50How many appointments do you need to have?

1:10:50 > 1:10:54- I was very ill.- Yeah. Wow. - Very ill.

1:10:54 > 1:10:59Dr Khorsandi took people to watch me die.

1:11:01 > 1:11:02They thought I was dead.

1:11:03 > 1:11:07I was unconscious for six days.

1:11:07 > 1:11:09They thought I was dead.

1:11:13 > 1:11:16And then you just woke up?

1:11:16 > 1:11:20No, I didn't wake up. He woke me up.

1:11:21 > 1:11:23Did it feel like you were just having a big dream?

1:11:23 > 1:11:24- No.- No.

1:11:27 > 1:11:31- I was in the hospital for three weeks.- Yeah.

1:11:32 > 1:11:35And in this hotel for six weeks.

1:11:37 > 1:11:38Ten weeks, it took me.

1:11:40 > 1:11:41Yeah.

1:11:41 > 1:11:48He had a 1 in 100 chance of surviving an aortic rupture

1:11:48 > 1:11:52and...and...he did.

1:11:52 > 1:11:56His surgeon said he was incredibly lucky.

1:11:56 > 1:12:00And then, you know, he is a bit like a cat with nine lives.

1:12:00 > 1:12:02He kind of rebounds.

1:12:02 > 1:12:07He's tremendously...physically, I think, strong, and determined.

1:12:07 > 1:12:11I felt much better if he came to stay with us

1:12:11 > 1:12:14so he stayed with us for about 18 months, till he got, you know,

1:12:14 > 1:12:15well again.

1:12:15 > 1:12:17We had nurses come and look after him

1:12:17 > 1:12:18so we could do it all in-house

1:12:18 > 1:12:21and he just had a lovely time in the garden

1:12:21 > 1:12:25and you know, he managed to go out, still.

1:12:25 > 1:12:30He'd go out a couple of times a week but we'd always give him a curfew

1:12:30 > 1:12:33and we were really quite tough on him with his health.

1:12:34 > 1:12:37Why do you think he still loves going out so much now?

1:12:37 > 1:12:39You know, he's a social butterfly.

1:12:39 > 1:12:41He knows absolutely everybody and...

1:12:41 > 1:12:45he just loves going out and meeting people

1:12:45 > 1:12:46and doesn't want to miss anything.

1:12:46 > 1:12:48He's sort of addicted to it, I think.

1:12:48 > 1:12:50PHONE RINGS

1:12:56 > 1:12:58Hello?

1:12:59 > 1:13:02I can't talk. I'll ring you in the morning.

1:13:34 > 1:13:38I like going to clubs and I like hanging out with young people

1:13:38 > 1:13:41because it stops you being

1:13:41 > 1:13:45so "I can only do it one way, this way,

1:13:45 > 1:13:47"and if you don't do it that way, it's wrong."

1:13:47 > 1:13:49But what is extraordinary is that at the age of 60,

1:13:49 > 1:13:52you still have the energy to work as hard as you do

1:13:52 > 1:13:57and be out raving or clubbing into the early hours of the morning.

1:13:57 > 1:14:00- How do you do it?- Well, I suppose I'm lucky, in that sense

1:14:00 > 1:14:03and I also like the kind of music that's happening at the moment.

1:14:03 > 1:14:08But has all of that got anything to do with your own ageing?

1:14:08 > 1:14:10It's you fighting against the ageing process?

1:14:10 > 1:14:13Possibly. But I've always been like that.

1:14:15 > 1:14:21I mean, the Michael now is a shadow of the Michael that was,

1:14:21 > 1:14:24partly because of his illness, which he won't admit to.

1:14:24 > 1:14:27And I think that's very difficult for him,

1:14:27 > 1:14:30the position that he's in now,

1:14:30 > 1:14:33and he just tries to hide it. Covers it up.

1:14:36 > 1:14:39I don't like "suffered a stroke".

1:14:39 > 1:14:41I didn't suffer a stroke.

1:14:41 > 1:14:43I don't want these questions.

1:14:48 > 1:14:50I don't like these questions.

1:14:50 > 1:14:52I don't like the tone of them.

1:14:55 > 1:14:59- That's my asthma. I've got asthma bad now.- Yeah.

1:14:59 > 1:15:01HE COUGHS

1:15:02 > 1:15:04Hold on.

1:15:04 > 1:15:06OK, cool. Let's just take a break.

1:15:11 > 1:15:13Michael as a child had such bad asthma

1:15:13 > 1:15:17he used to have to go to school to Switzerland on a stretcher

1:15:17 > 1:15:19because he'd spent the holidays with his family

1:15:19 > 1:15:21and it had got him so worked up.

1:15:21 > 1:15:24Michael can't show his feelings.

1:15:24 > 1:15:26He's absolutely incapable of showing his feelings,

1:15:26 > 1:15:29which is why he surrounds himself with photos,

1:15:29 > 1:15:31because photos don't get up and bite back at you.

1:15:35 > 1:15:40I'd like to say how guilty I feel

1:15:40 > 1:15:44about Michael being sent away when he was too young.

1:15:44 > 1:15:49Michael was so quiet and...shy.

1:15:49 > 1:15:53And he was also mute for several months.

1:15:53 > 1:15:55He didn't speak at all.

1:15:57 > 1:15:59He doesn't like being alone,

1:15:59 > 1:16:02and I think that comes from his childhood.

1:16:03 > 1:16:06From being so isolated

1:16:06 > 1:16:10and not really having anybody to comfort him when he was little.

1:16:16 > 1:16:20Really? Because he doesn't really like to talk about his bad things.

1:16:20 > 1:16:22- No. - He only wants to focus on

1:16:22 > 1:16:25good things that have happened to him, or something, it seems.

1:16:25 > 1:16:27Which is not a complete life.

1:16:28 > 1:16:33We never talk about how he feels about anything

1:16:33 > 1:16:38and I think that he really can't face analysing himself.

1:16:38 > 1:16:40I think it's too painful.

1:16:41 > 1:16:44And I think that's why he likes to be surrounded with people

1:16:44 > 1:16:47because it gives him a feeling of comfort.

1:16:52 > 1:16:57In a funny kind of way, Michael's mystery is still sustained now.

1:16:57 > 1:17:00I mean, the fact that he doesn't say too much,

1:17:00 > 1:17:01he never DID say too much,

1:17:01 > 1:17:04so that's not very different from the way Michael was.

1:17:04 > 1:17:08How he lives his life, how he manages to do all this -

1:17:08 > 1:17:12he would seem to have the lifestyle of some immensely rich person.

1:17:12 > 1:17:15Goes to great restaurants, goes to great parties,

1:17:15 > 1:17:18and then you see that he does live in a very modest flat

1:17:18 > 1:17:22and times have, financially, not been good to him.

1:17:22 > 1:17:25But he has many friends and those friends are incredibly fond of him

1:17:25 > 1:17:28and they try to look after him and support him.

1:17:37 > 1:17:39Why do you still have so many friends?

1:17:44 > 1:17:46You don't lose friends.

1:17:49 > 1:17:51People do, though. You don't.

1:17:53 > 1:17:57Because basically people like me because of what I am,

1:17:57 > 1:17:59not because of some fantasy.

1:18:03 > 1:18:06You have an Australian way of looking at things.

1:18:09 > 1:18:11I'm friends with everyone.

1:18:14 > 1:18:16So you've never had any enemies?

1:18:16 > 1:18:18No.

1:18:19 > 1:18:21No.

1:18:21 > 1:18:24I've had people who've cheated me, swindled me.

1:18:26 > 1:18:28But I don't have enemies.

1:18:30 > 1:18:32He's a total optimist. I mean, even now,

1:18:32 > 1:18:37he, you know, with all of the frailty that he has,

1:18:37 > 1:18:39he's just incredible

1:18:39 > 1:18:42because he doesn't moan, doesn't complain.

1:18:42 > 1:18:45He's had everything and lost everything

1:18:45 > 1:18:48and yet he's still exactly the same.

1:18:48 > 1:18:51He's the most lovable character,

1:18:51 > 1:18:55and he completely changed my life.

1:18:55 > 1:18:57And I wish I had

1:18:57 > 1:19:01half the flair as a producer that he had.

1:19:27 > 1:19:30Can you tell me about life in Ojai?

1:19:30 > 1:19:32Very quiet.

1:19:32 > 1:19:34Very agreeable.

1:19:34 > 1:19:37TV.

1:19:37 > 1:19:40Visits out in the country.

1:19:40 > 1:19:43Santa Barbara, we've been there.

1:19:43 > 1:19:46Great. Very nice.

1:19:46 > 1:19:49It's a bit of a contrast from, you know,

1:19:49 > 1:19:54your lifestyle at Chateau Marmont or any of...?

1:19:54 > 1:19:57- Yeah.- Do you like the balance? - Yeah.

1:20:00 > 1:20:01I'm old now.

1:20:03 > 1:20:05More or less.

1:20:10 > 1:20:11Good boy.

1:20:15 > 1:20:18And have you always not liked getting older?

1:20:18 > 1:20:21Always, yeah.

1:20:21 > 1:20:25I'd be quite happy to have stayed a teenager for ever.

1:20:25 > 1:20:28- Wouldn't we all?- I just think most people say things

1:20:28 > 1:20:31because it's the correct thing to say.

1:20:31 > 1:20:34"Oh, yes, growing older gives me wisdom

1:20:34 > 1:20:37"and I know more about this, I understand more,

1:20:37 > 1:20:40"I'm more tolerant." It's just not true.

1:20:40 > 1:20:44People become less tolerant. They become very set in their ways.

1:20:44 > 1:20:47This is the thing I think one has to fight against.

1:20:50 > 1:20:55Do you have any desire for stability and continuity in your life?

1:20:55 > 1:20:57Or do you quite like being on the heath?

1:20:57 > 1:21:01- No desire for stability. - You don't like routine.

1:21:01 > 1:21:04No. You'll get that when you're dead. You'll have lots of stability.

1:21:04 > 1:21:06You'll be stuck in one place for ever.

1:21:06 > 1:21:10So I think while you're alive, you have to live.

1:21:19 > 1:21:21- For Mr Young?- White.

1:21:21 > 1:21:23- Hmm?- White.

1:21:25 > 1:21:28- He's here. He's inside, yeah? - OK, thank you.

1:22:26 > 1:22:28I like him so much because

1:22:28 > 1:22:29he's a good man, very nice man.

1:22:29 > 1:22:33Very calm, you know, very quiet man.

1:22:33 > 1:22:38He came always every month of May for the Film Festival.

1:22:38 > 1:22:42Last time when he came here, he's using one stick.

1:22:42 > 1:22:45Now this year, two sticks at the same time.

1:22:45 > 1:22:48He woke up like 11 o'clock,

1:22:48 > 1:22:5111.30, have his breakfast,

1:22:51 > 1:22:54and then he said, "Oh, I came back late."

1:22:54 > 1:22:56I said, "What time you came?"

1:22:56 > 1:22:59"Two o'clock, every night."

1:23:02 > 1:23:05Michael, where are you going tonight?

1:23:05 > 1:23:07I'm going to a party.

1:23:08 > 1:23:10Can I come?

1:23:10 > 1:23:11No!

1:23:13 > 1:23:18# Michael Rennie was ill the day the earth stood still

1:23:18 > 1:23:23# But he told us where we stand

1:23:23 > 1:23:29# And Flash Gordon was there in silver underwear

1:23:29 > 1:23:34# Claude Rains was The Invisible Man

1:23:34 > 1:23:39# Then something went wrong for Fay Wray and King Kong

1:23:39 > 1:23:44# They got caught in a celluloid jam

1:23:44 > 1:23:50# Then at a deadly pace it came from outer space

1:23:50 > 1:23:56# And this is how the message ran

1:23:59 > 1:24:05- # Science fiction - Ooh ooh ooh

1:24:05 > 1:24:09- # Double feature - Ooh ooh ooh

1:24:09 > 1:24:12# Dr X... #

1:24:12 > 1:24:14The first of tonight's special awards

1:24:14 > 1:24:17goes to one of theatre's most charismatic figures.

1:24:17 > 1:24:18Ladies and gentlemen,

1:24:18 > 1:24:22I'm honoured to give this award to my dear friend,

1:24:22 > 1:24:23Michael White.

1:24:23 > 1:24:25APPLAUSE

1:24:25 > 1:24:30- # ..Brad and Janet - Ah ah ah

1:24:30 > 1:24:38# Anne Francis stars in Forbidden Planet

1:24:38 > 1:24:43# Oh oh oh oh-oh

1:24:43 > 1:24:46# At the late night

1:24:46 > 1:24:51# Double feature picture show

1:24:51 > 1:24:54# By RKO

1:24:54 > 1:24:57# Oh, oh

1:24:58 > 1:25:01# To the late night

1:25:01 > 1:25:03# Double feature

1:25:03 > 1:25:05# Picture show... #