A Picture of the Painter Howard Hodgkin

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0:00:18 > 0:00:21All artists' studios are the same.

0:00:21 > 0:00:24All artists' studios are different.

0:00:24 > 0:00:28This one belongs to Sir Howard Hodgkin.

0:00:31 > 0:00:34The first time I came here, I thought the objects lining

0:00:34 > 0:00:40the room were canvases, their painted faces turned to the wall.

0:00:40 > 0:00:42That was my first mistake.

0:00:42 > 0:00:47Hodgkin paints only on wood and these are screens designed

0:00:47 > 0:00:52to conceal works in progress, which may take years to complete.

0:01:00 > 0:01:02I have an appointment with the painter,

0:01:02 > 0:01:05who, by all accounts, is not an easy interview.

0:01:05 > 0:01:12His friend Bruce Chatwin described him as longing for both fame and for oblivion.

0:01:15 > 0:01:21He doesn't like talking about his paintings because, he says, "Words are the English disease.

0:01:21 > 0:01:24"They come between the painting and the viewer."

0:01:27 > 0:01:31He once said that painting is like putting a message in a bottle

0:01:31 > 0:01:34and flinging it into the sea.

0:01:34 > 0:01:41He works in this great bowl of glaring white light, but no-one has seen him paint for over 20 years.

0:01:43 > 0:01:48Now, at the age of 73, he has a major retrospective,

0:01:48 > 0:01:52first in Dublin and from tomorrow at Tate Britain,

0:01:52 > 0:01:56and he's the subject of this book, which seems to mark him out

0:01:56 > 0:02:02as a favourite of poets, novelists and critics, many of whom have known him for years.

0:02:06 > 0:02:07And here he comes.

0:02:17 > 0:02:19Welcome!

0:02:21 > 0:02:23'He seems rather benign,

0:02:23 > 0:02:27'but the terms of the interview require some negotiation.'

0:02:27 > 0:02:30'Certain personal areas are off limits,

0:02:30 > 0:02:34'he's not keen to talk about his world class collection of Indian art.

0:02:34 > 0:02:39'And we absolutely cannot film him at work.

0:02:39 > 0:02:42'But there is something he will do.

0:02:42 > 0:02:43'He will leave the white room.

0:02:43 > 0:02:46'He will come to India.'

0:03:16 > 0:03:19This is Hodgkin's 28th visit to India.

0:03:19 > 0:03:22I wonder what keeps bringing him back here.

0:03:24 > 0:03:31'We're following his itinerary, coming to places he has chosen and invariably seen before.

0:03:33 > 0:03:36'This is Fatehpur Sikri, a ghost city,

0:03:36 > 0:03:42'built by the Mogul emperor Akbar, but abandoned after only 14 years.

0:03:45 > 0:03:50'One suspects he has an enormous enthusiasm for Mogul architecture,

0:03:50 > 0:03:52'but Howard's not going to talk about it.'

0:03:54 > 0:03:58He sits and he looks.

0:03:58 > 0:04:03He's doing something else and you know it has to do with how a painting comes about.

0:04:10 > 0:04:14He doesn't sketch, he doesn't take photographs.

0:04:14 > 0:04:17He doesn't do anything obvious to commit a scene to memory.

0:04:17 > 0:04:21And yet somehow you know he's taking it all in,

0:04:21 > 0:04:26and you wonder, which of all these sights and sounds will come back one day?

0:04:26 > 0:04:29Not like a scene from a movie,

0:04:29 > 0:04:32but as patches of colour painted on wood.

0:04:39 > 0:04:44I used to worry that I couldn't articulate exactly what

0:04:44 > 0:04:48even a picture like this that I own by him

0:04:48 > 0:04:51does to me internally when I look at it.

0:04:51 > 0:04:55But now I think that that's only a sort of social handicap

0:04:55 > 0:05:00rather than a sort of failing in regard to me and the painting.

0:05:00 > 0:05:05I don't see why I should necessarily be able to put it into words

0:05:05 > 0:05:08or whether it would be improved by my putting it into words.

0:05:08 > 0:05:12I was looking at it just before you came and one of the things I love

0:05:12 > 0:05:21is sort of leaching out from behind all this exuberance are these little areas of sort of greeny-grey brown.

0:05:21 > 0:05:26I just found my thoughts going along the line of

0:05:26 > 0:05:30this is a sort of blazing picture about joy

0:05:30 > 0:05:34and this is behind every joy, there is some melancholy.

0:05:34 > 0:05:38Might be complete bollocks, and actually, if I remember

0:05:38 > 0:05:41that next time I look at it, it won't help me understand it.

0:05:45 > 0:05:52Night drive to Agra, 125 miles south of Delhi.

0:05:52 > 0:05:57It's my first time in India, and feels exhilarating, overwhelming,

0:05:57 > 0:06:00almost dangerous.

0:06:00 > 0:06:02CAR HORNS BLARE

0:06:20 > 0:06:22It's an assault on the senses, India, isn't it,

0:06:22 > 0:06:25in an extraordinary way?

0:06:25 > 0:06:31I think one of the things about India is that everything is so extreme

0:06:31 > 0:06:34and also so naked.

0:06:34 > 0:06:38But the thing about being an artist is that you are always a stranger.

0:06:40 > 0:06:43Because one's always a stranger,

0:06:43 > 0:06:48it's nice to find a place where it's natural to be one.

0:06:48 > 0:06:53It's not natural to be a stranger in England.

0:07:05 > 0:07:10So many of the pictures refer to "abroad", as it used to be called.

0:07:10 > 0:07:13Seasons in their foreign plumage.

0:07:13 > 0:07:18Fruit, palm trees, a searingly coloured sky.

0:07:18 > 0:07:22It may be that this painter needs to travel.

0:07:22 > 0:07:28You need the separation from home and then you need the return home to consider what you have stored up.

0:07:28 > 0:07:33What is worth painting is what remains in and is transformed by memory.

0:07:36 > 0:07:38Late afternoon at Banganga Tank.

0:07:38 > 0:07:43Howard loves this place and is in a talkative mood.

0:07:43 > 0:07:46It's become very glamorous since I first came here.

0:07:46 > 0:07:48This what you call glamorous, is it?

0:07:48 > 0:07:52Oh, yes. Look at these beautiful clean birds.

0:07:52 > 0:07:59There's a little bit of junk there, but mostly it's very downmarket.

0:07:59 > 0:08:02Look at those colours in a row.

0:08:05 > 0:08:11Lilac, the pink, the orange and yellow in between - amazing!

0:08:11 > 0:08:14What is it about the British that we're so coy about colour?

0:08:16 > 0:08:20I don't really know, but I think that one of the reasons

0:08:20 > 0:08:25we're coy about the colour of sunsets

0:08:25 > 0:08:29is because sunsets are the colour of tumescence,

0:08:29 > 0:08:32and that's thought to be... or something!

0:08:37 > 0:08:39It's also not thought to be serious colour.

0:08:41 > 0:08:46That's right. There is that thing about your pictures.

0:08:46 > 0:08:48People think they're very beautiful

0:08:48 > 0:08:50and therefore they can't be serious.

0:08:50 > 0:08:52Oh yes, absolutely.

0:08:55 > 0:08:59That's why I try to persuade people to never call them beautiful,

0:08:59 > 0:09:00but I didn't get anywhere.

0:09:02 > 0:09:05Look at that. That is pretty amazing.

0:09:13 > 0:09:15It's very bright.

0:09:15 > 0:09:18It is. I like that.

0:09:18 > 0:09:21It's a bit more than the pictures can stand, I think.

0:09:23 > 0:09:27We saw this green in India, but did we quite see this green?

0:09:27 > 0:09:29Yes, absolutely.

0:09:29 > 0:09:37This is the perfect Indian vernacular green, not Raj green.

0:09:37 > 0:09:41Is it a British...? No, I think it's a vernacular green.

0:09:41 > 0:09:43Who knows where colours come from in India?

0:09:50 > 0:09:56The Irish Museum of Modern Art has been painted, blazoned,

0:09:56 > 0:10:01maybe appropriately in green, white and gold

0:10:01 > 0:10:04for the Howard Hodgkin exhibition.

0:10:04 > 0:10:10When I walked through the rooms and stopped with the paintings,

0:10:10 > 0:10:15with green prevailing,

0:10:15 > 0:10:20I couldn't help thinking of a poem by Philip Larkin called The Trees.

0:10:21 > 0:10:26"Trees are coming into leaf, Like something almost being said,

0:10:26 > 0:10:33"The recent buds relax and spread, Their greenness is a kind of grief.

0:10:33 > 0:10:37"Is it that they are born again and we grow old?

0:10:37 > 0:10:39"No, they die too.

0:10:39 > 0:10:45"Their yearly trick of looking new Is written down in rings of grain,

0:10:45 > 0:10:49"Yet still the unresting castles thresh,

0:10:49 > 0:10:52"In full-grown thickness every May.

0:10:52 > 0:10:54" "Last year is dead", they seem to say,

0:10:54 > 0:10:58"Begin afresh, afresh, afresh."

0:11:02 > 0:11:07As a matter of fact, that "begin afresh"

0:11:07 > 0:11:11is an answer that Howard Hodgkin could give to a question he's often asked.

0:11:11 > 0:11:13He's often asked, "What does this painting mean?"

0:11:13 > 0:11:19Which he avoids with various wiles and wisdoms,

0:11:19 > 0:11:23but he could say, truthfully and adequately,

0:11:23 > 0:11:27"This painting means that I had to begin afresh."

0:11:46 > 0:11:48The Dublin show, like the one opening at Tate Britain,

0:11:48 > 0:11:51is chronological, spanning nearly 50 years.

0:11:51 > 0:11:56It's a chance to see, to walk through, a lifetime of painting.

0:11:58 > 0:12:01"I've been looking at Howard's work for three decades now

0:12:01 > 0:12:03"and it's one of the delights of my life.

0:12:03 > 0:12:07"When his paintings, like a gang of international acquaintances,

0:12:07 > 0:12:09"reassemble for a different show

0:12:09 > 0:12:12"in a different city, in a different country,

0:12:12 > 0:12:15"when I stand in front of a picture again after a period of a few years,

0:12:15 > 0:12:20"I often find myself murmuring internally, 'Yes, of course,' or 'Good,'

0:12:20 > 0:12:25"or, 'That's right,' or sometimes, 'Now I am beginning to see.' "

0:12:33 > 0:12:36'The pictures are packed with cunning design

0:12:36 > 0:12:38'and thick, luscious colour.

0:12:38 > 0:12:44'Hodgkin's green is as excruciating as Tiepolo's blue.

0:12:44 > 0:12:48'Having renounced painting's other primary resource - drawing -

0:12:48 > 0:12:52'Hodgkin has fielded the most inventive, sensuously-affecting

0:12:52 > 0:12:57'colour repertory of any contemporary painter.'

0:12:57 > 0:13:00Here you have this artist who's grown up in England,

0:13:00 > 0:13:05a culture which is thought not to be interested in colour,

0:13:05 > 0:13:10and here he is. Really, he's of totally southern temperament

0:13:10 > 0:13:15in this grey atmosphere of London trying to burst out.

0:13:15 > 0:13:17You see it throughout his painting.

0:13:17 > 0:13:20I mean, this really strong emotion, really strong colour,

0:13:20 > 0:13:25which is completely uncharacteristic of what we think of as British painting.

0:13:25 > 0:13:27When he gets to India, it really explodes.

0:13:32 > 0:13:37The trouble is, once you start becoming aware of colours, you start seeing them everywhere...

0:13:37 > 0:13:39or think you do.

0:13:39 > 0:13:43When travelling with Howard, you soon learn not to take colour for granted.

0:13:45 > 0:13:47Howard, look.

0:13:47 > 0:13:50Yeah.

0:13:50 > 0:13:51Dublin green or not?

0:13:51 > 0:13:53Not quite.

0:13:55 > 0:13:58Not quite blue enough, almost.

0:14:03 > 0:14:07We know objectively that painters see colours better than we do,

0:14:07 > 0:14:11see them more exactly, more precisely, but it's very good to have it demonstrated.

0:14:14 > 0:14:17"Taranto, April 1989.

0:14:17 > 0:14:19"Howard spots a black hand-towel

0:14:19 > 0:14:23"in the window of an old-fashioned haberdashery. Four of us go in.

0:14:23 > 0:14:27"The assistant produces a black hand-towel.

0:14:27 > 0:14:30" 'No,' says Howard, 'It's not as black as the one in the window.'

0:14:30 > 0:14:34"The assistant pulls out another, which is similarly rejected,

0:14:34 > 0:14:36"and then another and then another.

0:14:41 > 0:14:44"Howard has now rejected seven or eight, for God's sake,

0:14:44 > 0:14:47"and is asking the fellow to get the original towel out of the window.

0:14:47 > 0:14:50"The assistant contorts himself to do so.

0:14:50 > 0:14:52"When he lays the item down on the counter,

0:14:52 > 0:14:56"I see instantly what I would not have seen in anyone else's presence -

0:14:56 > 0:15:01"the towel is indeed very, very slightly blacker than all the others.

0:15:01 > 0:15:03"The sale is concluded."

0:15:05 > 0:15:09Your awareness and love of colour,

0:15:09 > 0:15:12it's also connected with your sense of escape,

0:15:12 > 0:15:13going to India and getting away.

0:15:13 > 0:15:17Is there something liberating about colour for you personally?

0:15:17 > 0:15:23I don't think, particularly. I think if the picture needs some colour, I put it there.

0:15:23 > 0:15:26But I don't really think in terms of liberation.

0:15:28 > 0:15:32I find painting too difficult to feel liberated by it.

0:15:32 > 0:15:37Colour has no separate identity for me at all.

0:15:37 > 0:15:43As that great colourist David Hockney once said, "It doesn't matter what colour you use."

0:15:49 > 0:15:53For him, the word colourist is an offensive term.

0:15:53 > 0:15:56He's not a colourist. "I'm not a colourist!"

0:15:56 > 0:16:01So he's a painter and he happens to work with colour,

0:16:01 > 0:16:05but the paintings are not a way

0:16:05 > 0:16:09of making a wall pretty or a space pretty.

0:16:09 > 0:16:15So he has to work out carefully what it is he's doing,

0:16:15 > 0:16:21but it's so hard to describe because he's working very tactfully

0:16:21 > 0:16:24and sensitively off a nervous system to tell something.

0:16:24 > 0:16:27It's absolutely crucial to him, but it's not something simple.

0:16:29 > 0:16:32But being called a colourist is a nightmare.

0:16:32 > 0:16:36It's like for a novelist being called a storyteller.

0:16:36 > 0:16:38"Oh, he's a great storyteller."

0:16:38 > 0:16:42When you've spent your lifetime shaping things,

0:16:42 > 0:16:46forcing sentences into certain positions, making paragraphs sharp

0:16:46 > 0:16:48and, "Oh, he's a great storyteller."

0:16:48 > 0:16:52It's that sort of thing that really irritates people.

0:16:55 > 0:16:58Some people would say, "He's an abstract painter."

0:16:58 > 0:17:02A lot of people would say that who don't necessarily know a great deal about the history of art.

0:17:02 > 0:17:06You're very adamant that you're a representational painter.

0:17:06 > 0:17:09I'm a painter. You're a painter.

0:17:09 > 0:17:12You're being a bit gnomic about that because you have said

0:17:12 > 0:17:17that you paint things that you see and experience.

0:17:17 > 0:17:22Yes, I'm only being a bit gnomic to avoid repeating

0:17:22 > 0:17:27that very glib remark I once made that I'm a representational painter of emotions,

0:17:27 > 0:17:31which was a silly thing to say,

0:17:31 > 0:17:34but I'm not an abstract painter.

0:17:36 > 0:17:39His work hovers in this area.

0:17:39 > 0:17:43It always starts from a given moment or a given memory

0:17:43 > 0:17:48and a very specific experience.

0:17:48 > 0:17:55I think if you start to try and pin down, analyse and define in words,

0:17:55 > 0:18:00it can often make it more difficult to realise the experience in another form.

0:18:02 > 0:18:08I think also that he's very happy to give people clues but not explanations

0:18:08 > 0:18:12because he doesn't want the works to be read literally.

0:18:14 > 0:18:18And the first clue Howard offers us is the painting's title.

0:18:23 > 0:18:26This is called...

0:18:26 > 0:18:27It's called Rain.

0:18:27 > 0:18:31How important is the title, as a matter of interest?

0:18:31 > 0:18:35Extremely important because it's the subject of the picture.

0:18:35 > 0:18:38This is a painting called Sad Flowers.

0:18:38 > 0:18:40Sad Flowers.

0:18:40 > 0:18:45Yes, which has been much repainted.

0:18:45 > 0:18:48When you say much repainted, do you mean you worked on it a lot?

0:18:48 > 0:18:53I worked on it a lot and then I thought it wasn't sad enough so I made it even more sad.

0:18:58 > 0:19:00What is it called?

0:19:00 > 0:19:04That's one of Howard's wittier titles.

0:19:04 > 0:19:08It's such an exuberant and blazing picture.

0:19:08 > 0:19:11He calls it Keep it Quiet.

0:19:11 > 0:19:14Its presence is very demanding.

0:19:14 > 0:19:16It's opposite the front door

0:19:16 > 0:19:21and I sometimes deliberately don't switch the light on that's on it

0:19:21 > 0:19:23so that I sort of skulk past it.

0:19:23 > 0:19:27I think, "I'll get back to you tomorrow."

0:19:27 > 0:19:31This is a picture called Snapshot, Howard,

0:19:31 > 0:19:34and it took you nine years to paint.

0:19:34 > 0:19:38It did indeed. It shows how difficult it is to paint a snapshot.

0:19:38 > 0:19:46So, when you began, there was some image that you caught sight of.

0:19:46 > 0:19:50Is that why you called it Snapshot? I'll go that far, yes.

0:19:52 > 0:19:58It takes you a long time, paradoxically, to capture that moment and that glimpse.

0:19:58 > 0:20:01I don't think it's quite as paradoxical as all that because...

0:20:04 > 0:20:08..a glimpse is much harder to pin down.

0:20:08 > 0:20:13Because you're going back deep into your... You're trying to remember...

0:20:13 > 0:20:20You have to remember and paint from memory and believe in it as well.

0:20:20 > 0:20:23Belief is the real trouble.

0:20:23 > 0:20:26When we think of memory in art, you think of Wordsworth

0:20:26 > 0:20:29and emotion recollected in tranquillity.

0:20:29 > 0:20:32It always seems to me that Howard's paintings

0:20:32 > 0:20:36are emotion recollected with the full power and complication

0:20:36 > 0:20:39of the emotion that was felt in the first place.

0:20:39 > 0:20:44There's nothing calm and reflective about these paintings.

0:20:44 > 0:20:47They seem to me furiously emotional.

0:20:51 > 0:20:55'We rose early one morning to go to Lodi Gardens,

0:20:55 > 0:20:59'a favourite haunt of lovers and joggers.

0:20:59 > 0:21:02'We were there to visit the domed tombs

0:21:02 > 0:21:04'and I hoped Howard might open up

0:21:04 > 0:21:10'and explain why it was India that took such a grip on his imagination.'

0:21:10 > 0:21:14There's something about the everyday in India, just coming across these things.

0:21:14 > 0:21:18Yes. Look, you can see the woman taking her dog for a walk.

0:21:18 > 0:21:22Yes, we talked about glimpses.

0:21:22 > 0:21:25One of my favourite things.

0:21:25 > 0:21:29And the elephant-coloured palm trunks,

0:21:29 > 0:21:32I think that's absolutely amazing.

0:21:37 > 0:21:40Was this Mogul architecture what first captivated you?

0:21:42 > 0:21:48No, not really, it was just a very romantic idea of India.

0:21:48 > 0:21:51It was completely exotic.

0:21:51 > 0:21:57It couldn't be further away than living in Shepherds Bush, where I was then.

0:21:57 > 0:21:59And everybody spoke English.

0:22:00 > 0:22:02They don't any more.

0:22:02 > 0:22:04What, in Shepherds Bush?

0:22:04 > 0:22:07No, here.

0:22:07 > 0:22:09When did you first see this?

0:22:09 > 0:22:15I'm sure I saw it on my first visit to India.

0:22:15 > 0:22:17In '64.

0:22:19 > 0:22:23I thought it was an interesting way of exploring how the paintings begin

0:22:23 > 0:22:29by asking him to go through the past chronologically for me - What year? What happened next?

0:22:29 > 0:22:31This irritated him very deeply.

0:22:33 > 0:22:37But every so often, he would say something,

0:22:37 > 0:22:42he would say, "Remember in that street, there was another boy..." and he would start.

0:22:42 > 0:22:45I'd realise he was almost back somewhere

0:22:45 > 0:22:48in the part of himself that makes images.

0:22:51 > 0:22:55And what did you sense about his childhood?

0:22:55 > 0:23:02I felt that he certainly had a sense of being an outsider,

0:23:02 > 0:23:05which can happen to the most protected, loved children

0:23:05 > 0:23:10in the most bourgeois families, the sudden sense that you're not...

0:23:10 > 0:23:14that you weren't born or that you weren't fully made,

0:23:14 > 0:23:18and that you would have to make yourself up as you went along within a family

0:23:18 > 0:23:21no matter how wonderful the family was.

0:23:21 > 0:23:26Oh, I certainly felt that about him, you feel that about him I think the minute you see him -

0:23:26 > 0:23:30that he is somebody who has been lost.

0:23:34 > 0:23:38'Howard Hodgkin doesn't fit in to any group or school of British art.

0:23:38 > 0:23:41'In the early '60s, he painted a series of portraits

0:23:41 > 0:23:44'of fellow artists from the contemporary scene.

0:23:44 > 0:23:49'But as he told me, he was never one of the gang.'

0:23:49 > 0:23:54So, the beginning of the story is in white. In white, yes.

0:23:54 > 0:23:58Any reason for that? Yes. You begin pure and then get corrupted.

0:24:00 > 0:24:03That is not for publication.

0:24:03 > 0:24:06This picture tells you about the story,

0:24:06 > 0:24:11about the art world you inhabited and your interpretation of it.

0:24:11 > 0:24:15And that awful quotation that critic got.

0:24:15 > 0:24:19"I painted pictures of people because I was scared of them."

0:24:19 > 0:24:22That was actually quoted in relation to that painting.

0:24:22 > 0:24:24He's got a point, hasn't he?

0:24:24 > 0:24:26It's quite a scary picture.

0:24:26 > 0:24:28I suppose so!

0:24:28 > 0:24:31They were very close friends of mine at the time,

0:24:31 > 0:24:35but perhaps I was also a little scared of Robin.

0:24:37 > 0:24:40Your subject for a lot of that time

0:24:40 > 0:24:43was actually this art world and the people who inhabited it

0:24:43 > 0:24:46and all going off in their different directions. You were sort of...

0:24:46 > 0:24:51It was probably the nearest I could get to being in it.

0:24:51 > 0:24:54But you were sort of marooned a bit.

0:24:54 > 0:24:58I say marooned, but you were still finding your own way.

0:24:58 > 0:25:00Yes, I was.

0:25:04 > 0:25:06Throughout the 1960s,

0:25:06 > 0:25:09Howard escaped the confines of the English art world

0:25:09 > 0:25:13through his passion for collecting Indian paintings and drawings.

0:25:27 > 0:25:29As Bruce Chatwin observed,

0:25:29 > 0:25:34part of this enthusiasm was the thrill of the chase.

0:25:34 > 0:25:37'Howard's hunting instincts were thoroughly aroused.

0:25:37 > 0:25:40'He bought, sold and traded.

0:25:40 > 0:25:42'He perfected the tactics of the bazaar

0:25:42 > 0:25:48'and for over 10 years, he channelled about half his creative energies into his collection.'

0:26:01 > 0:26:04This is purely an unfinished painting.

0:26:04 > 0:26:07But I like it very much because of that.

0:26:09 > 0:26:13'Living with objects is...

0:26:13 > 0:26:17'only just less difficult than living with other people.'

0:26:17 > 0:26:22'Any retrospective exhibition of Howard's own paintings would, in my opinion,

0:26:22 > 0:26:26'be incomplete without the Indian collection hanging beside them.

0:26:26 > 0:26:30'Though having once made a purchase, he has an equally strong impulse

0:26:30 > 0:26:34'to hide it, to lend it, or at least to get it out of his sight.'

0:26:36 > 0:26:39And that's just what he has done.

0:26:39 > 0:26:44When I wanted to see his collection, I had to go to the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford,

0:26:44 > 0:26:50where, for the moment, it was not on display, but somewhere deep in storage.

0:26:57 > 0:27:01The Ashmolean's had a long relationship with Howard Hodgkin

0:27:01 > 0:27:06ever since he was a painting fellow here in the mid-'70s.

0:27:06 > 0:27:12And we were delighted a few years ago when he said, "Would you like to take the collection on loan?"

0:27:12 > 0:27:15So here it is.

0:27:15 > 0:27:18He's been collecting ever since he was a schoolboy.

0:27:18 > 0:27:21It's been a vital part of his life.

0:27:21 > 0:27:26I think Howard has a huge affinity for elephants and for elephants in painting.

0:27:26 > 0:27:30Probably about a fifth of his collection shows elephants.

0:27:30 > 0:27:33They vary from simple drawings,

0:27:33 > 0:27:39which, as it were, capture the whole life and soul of an elephant, particularly an Indian elephant,

0:27:39 > 0:27:42to elaborate paintings like this one.

0:27:46 > 0:27:52Hunters have been sent out by the royal court to trap a wild elephant.

0:27:52 > 0:27:56The bull elephant has been lured away from his herd.

0:27:56 > 0:27:59His herd are all frolicking happily in the lake beneath.

0:27:59 > 0:28:05It's just a great tour de force of elephants playing, elephants charging,

0:28:05 > 0:28:07elephants climbing rocks...

0:28:07 > 0:28:09everything's going on.

0:28:09 > 0:28:12Elephants tripping the light fantastic, almost.

0:28:16 > 0:28:20Indian painters tended to copy the same subjects over and over again.

0:28:20 > 0:28:24They produced good paintings, but they didn't produce great paintings,

0:28:24 > 0:28:27which had that original spark of inspiration.

0:28:27 > 0:28:31That's what you see in so many of the paintings in the Hodgkin collection -

0:28:31 > 0:28:34they're the real thing, they have that original spark.

0:28:48 > 0:28:51Howard also collects people.

0:28:51 > 0:28:55His passion for Indian art led to friendships with scholars

0:28:55 > 0:29:00like Simon Digby, who we met up with to be our guide at Humayan's tomb.

0:29:00 > 0:29:06You think of paintings of the mid-17th...you get domes,

0:29:06 > 0:29:09which probably looked quite like these...

0:29:09 > 0:29:13domes of a century earlier.

0:29:13 > 0:29:16I was looking at some pictures

0:29:16 > 0:29:19in this wonderful installation in the V,

0:29:19 > 0:29:25and there was Simon wearing sandals and carrying two shopping bags,

0:29:25 > 0:29:32which in those days made him look slightly like a male bag lady.

0:29:34 > 0:29:39I thought it was him - I knew him by sight...I thought.

0:29:39 > 0:29:42He came up in his best dithering tones.

0:29:42 > 0:29:44He said,

0:29:44 > 0:29:46"Mr Hodgkin, isn't it?"

0:29:46 > 0:29:48I said, "Yes."

0:29:48 > 0:29:50We went on from there.

0:29:50 > 0:29:57It was a time when so few people among the British

0:29:57 > 0:30:01were interested in Indian art in any way,

0:30:01 > 0:30:06so almost anyone of our generation who were interested

0:30:06 > 0:30:09were bound to run across one another sooner or later.

0:30:09 > 0:30:15But I was so impressed, being much shier than that, that you came up to a perfect stranger.

0:30:15 > 0:30:18I thought that was admirable.

0:30:18 > 0:30:20I've always been badly behaved!

0:30:21 > 0:30:23Hardly.

0:30:23 > 0:30:26I note the Star of David in the roundels.

0:30:26 > 0:30:29That motif becomes popular...

0:30:29 > 0:30:33again in the mid-16th century. It's found also on...

0:30:33 > 0:30:37He would talk for half the night when I first knew him.

0:30:37 > 0:30:40And in his drinking days, it was not half.

0:30:43 > 0:30:49'He's immensely knowledgeable about various things, particularly about Indian decorative art.'

0:31:02 > 0:31:07When you go, and I just watched you there,

0:31:07 > 0:31:12a lot of the time you would just sit and...absorb things.

0:31:12 > 0:31:17Is that the way you are when you're away?

0:31:17 > 0:31:21It's the way I am everywhere now, I think, very much.

0:31:26 > 0:31:28I try and work all the time.

0:31:31 > 0:31:34So that's what you're doing when you're sitting, you're working?

0:31:34 > 0:31:36Yeah.

0:31:44 > 0:31:47"When travelling with Howard, he and I have a running joke.

0:31:47 > 0:31:52"Occasionally, sitting in a bar, relaxing in a restaurant, staring at a sunset,

0:31:52 > 0:31:56"gazing at a piazza, he will say, with a delivery poised between

0:31:56 > 0:32:01"self-satire and true contentment, 'I feel a picture coming on.'

0:32:01 > 0:32:04"I ritually reply, 'I feel a novel coming on.'

0:32:04 > 0:32:08"He means it more than I do - well, I never mean it.

0:32:08 > 0:32:12"I often wonder what is happening inside his head at these moments.

0:32:12 > 0:32:17"Howard looks intently all the time, but when he says he feels a picture

0:32:17 > 0:32:20"coming on, he seems to be looking differently.

0:32:20 > 0:32:24"The moment is digestive, ruminant,

0:32:24 > 0:32:26"and I know he will remember everything.

0:32:26 > 0:32:30"That's to say, everything he needs and will need."

0:32:56 > 0:32:59It's like a stage set.

0:32:59 > 0:33:01She's like...

0:33:01 > 0:33:06She's act one. Yes, exactly. Something's going to happen.

0:33:06 > 0:33:10See how the shape of the...

0:33:10 > 0:33:13bottom of columns echoes the shape of her broom.

0:33:17 > 0:33:21A word would be enough to start a painting.

0:33:21 > 0:33:23A word,

0:33:23 > 0:33:25an event, a place... Yes, a place.

0:33:25 > 0:33:29A thing that happened. Yes.

0:33:29 > 0:33:32A memory in the distant past. Yes.

0:33:32 > 0:33:39And it isn't just a question of capturing the moment.

0:33:39 > 0:33:41It's almost the opposite of that.

0:33:41 > 0:33:48It's trying to find in the experience, whatever it was, the way it was remembered.

0:33:48 > 0:33:52To try and make that something that would matter.

0:34:00 > 0:34:06But if you're feeling miserable, it's a perfect place to come, it only lasts five seconds.

0:34:07 > 0:34:11I did once come here. What, when you were feeling miserable?

0:34:11 > 0:34:12Utterly miserable.

0:34:19 > 0:34:21'India became an emotional lifeline.

0:34:21 > 0:34:25'Each winter, he travelled all over the subcontinent,

0:34:25 > 0:34:26'sopping up impressions -

0:34:26 > 0:34:30'the view from a railway carriage, the colour of cow dust in the evening,

0:34:30 > 0:34:34'or the sight of an orange sari against a concrete balustrade -

0:34:34 > 0:34:38'and storing them for pictures he would paint at home.

0:34:38 > 0:34:43'And then the story might, artistically, have ended, were it not for a chance encounter.

0:34:43 > 0:34:47'The details of the encounter I leave to the imagination.

0:34:47 > 0:34:53'The results were that Howard's painting took a sharp and unexpected swerve.'

0:34:54 > 0:34:59Somehow that Chatwin...because the melodrama of that description...

0:34:59 > 0:35:03Yeah, the melodrama of course has affected...

0:35:03 > 0:35:09Everyone after that said, "Ah, he came out, and his work went...!"

0:35:10 > 0:35:12Nothing so simple

0:35:12 > 0:35:15or direct.

0:35:15 > 0:35:20I don't think it's anything like as simple as suggesting that,

0:35:20 > 0:35:25in the mid-'70s, he came out, and suddenly his painting...

0:35:25 > 0:35:28became of a different order.

0:35:28 > 0:35:31I think the subjects may have changed somewhat.

0:35:31 > 0:35:34And he was probably prepared

0:35:34 > 0:35:36to paint...

0:35:36 > 0:35:40subjects in which he had been, not just an observer,

0:35:40 > 0:35:45but subjects that were more directly about his own experience

0:35:45 > 0:35:46and own relationships.

0:35:46 > 0:35:49That probably did change.

0:36:01 > 0:36:07'We'd come here to the Red Fort at Agra to see Howard's favourite object in all of India

0:36:07 > 0:36:12'and at the same time to get a view of everybody else's favourite, the Taj Mahal,

0:36:12 > 0:36:16'which, rather pointedly, was not on Howard's itinerary.

0:36:16 > 0:36:18'Nor was it actually visible.'

0:36:25 > 0:36:31So, on a different day, when the sun wasn't here, we'd see the Taj Mahal from here? Yes, you would.

0:36:31 > 0:36:33'But not today.'

0:36:33 > 0:36:38We can probably buy a postcard or something of it.

0:36:38 > 0:36:39'Thanks a bunch, Howard.'

0:36:43 > 0:36:46I want to see my favourite object.

0:36:46 > 0:36:51'And there it was, the emperor's throne.'

0:36:51 > 0:36:54No, I'll sit down here and you sit up there.

0:36:54 > 0:36:57All right, go on, then. That would be appropriate.

0:36:57 > 0:36:58Of course(!)

0:36:58 > 0:37:02No, no, you have to sit cross-legged in the middle.

0:37:02 > 0:37:07'Howard had a plan, and I was beginning to think I was being set up.'

0:37:07 > 0:37:09I'm only doing this for you, Howard.

0:37:09 > 0:37:11In the middle. In the middle?

0:37:11 > 0:37:14Like the Emperor Akbar.

0:37:15 > 0:37:17Where he sat.

0:37:17 > 0:37:19Yes.

0:37:27 > 0:37:31I'm trying to remember what the proper posture...

0:37:32 > 0:37:35When you want something, my part would be...

0:37:35 > 0:37:37So what can I do for you?

0:37:39 > 0:37:43I think you could persuade people to look at my pictures.

0:37:43 > 0:37:45That's what I'm trying to do!

0:37:47 > 0:37:49Well, you see, I believe you.

0:37:55 > 0:37:59You love Mogul miniatures, you collect them.

0:37:59 > 0:38:02Why...? I only like big ones,

0:38:02 > 0:38:05I have to interpolate at that point.

0:38:05 > 0:38:08You only like big miniatures? Yes.

0:38:08 > 0:38:10You're a perverse fellow.

0:38:10 > 0:38:12Yes, I know!

0:38:12 > 0:38:17It gives them a certain quality when they're that big and everyone thinks they're that big.

0:38:17 > 0:38:21But this picture is of a very large subject.

0:38:23 > 0:38:27It's called, "Come Back, Dull Care".

0:38:30 > 0:38:32"Come Back, Dull Care". Yes.

0:38:32 > 0:38:34Most people would say,

0:38:34 > 0:38:39"Be Gone, Dull Care". Exactly. I thought it would be very good to have it back.

0:38:41 > 0:38:44It's a feel-good picture.

0:38:44 > 0:38:46Doesn't it look like one?

0:38:48 > 0:38:52Why do people say about your pictures that they're erotic?

0:38:52 > 0:38:56It's a word you hear a lot about your pictures. Well, I think they hope they are.

0:38:56 > 0:38:58And do YOU hope they are?

0:38:58 > 0:39:01Yes, if I've made them erotic, then I do hope they are.

0:39:01 > 0:39:06I saw this man sunbathing in Central Park wearing red Bermudas.

0:39:09 > 0:39:12I can see that sort of New York...

0:39:12 > 0:39:14Looking up, I can see.

0:39:14 > 0:39:16Is it a pleasurable experience, painting?

0:39:16 > 0:39:19No, it's agony.

0:39:19 > 0:39:24But I don't like saying that out loud, cos it sounds like self-pity.

0:39:24 > 0:39:27But it's not pleasurable...to me.

0:39:27 > 0:39:28So why do you do it?

0:39:28 > 0:39:30I don't know.

0:39:30 > 0:39:34I suppose it's a compulsion of some kind.

0:39:34 > 0:39:40And when I've finished a painting which I am pleased with, which does happen,

0:39:40 > 0:39:43then I always think I've got to paint another one.

0:39:44 > 0:39:48Do you surprise yourself when you make a picture? Have to. Have to?

0:39:57 > 0:40:00I mean, when one talks about composition,

0:40:00 > 0:40:02it that something,

0:40:02 > 0:40:06which emerges more than it's...

0:40:06 > 0:40:10conceived or ordained, the composition?

0:40:10 > 0:40:13I'm not going to answer that - it's a trade secret.

0:40:19 > 0:40:23He's very reluctant to talk about that whole process.

0:40:23 > 0:40:25There's not a lot of point in probing.

0:40:25 > 0:40:30You probably have, but he'll give away a bit, but he won't... And I understand that.

0:40:30 > 0:40:32Have you ever seen him paint?

0:40:32 > 0:40:34No.

0:40:37 > 0:40:40I want to go inside, don't you?

0:40:41 > 0:40:46Isn't that beautiful? Look at the light coming in. Beautiful.

0:40:46 > 0:40:51Crawford Market, Mumbai, a flourishing relic of the Raj,

0:40:51 > 0:40:54'designed by Lockwood Kipling, Rudyard's father.'

0:40:54 > 0:40:56There's the fountain.

0:40:56 > 0:40:59Right. I shouldn't be holding your arm on camera.

0:41:09 > 0:41:12'There was something Howard was eager to show me.'

0:41:13 > 0:41:17The fountain really is amazing.

0:41:17 > 0:41:21They've painted over all the original design in technicolour.

0:41:21 > 0:41:25It's been absorbed by India.

0:41:25 > 0:41:28So it was originally built by...

0:41:28 > 0:41:30Designed by Lockwood Kipling.

0:41:33 > 0:41:37What period? It looks like 1930s or '20s.

0:41:37 > 0:41:41No, no, no, that's because of all the paint. It's much earlier, you mean. Yes.

0:41:41 > 0:41:43Not of the same period as the building?

0:41:43 > 0:41:45Yes! My God!

0:41:45 > 0:41:47You see how they've...

0:41:47 > 0:41:49Indianised it?

0:41:49 > 0:41:51They certainly have. Wonderfully!

0:41:51 > 0:41:56You see, it was originally a kind of mock Byzantine. See the little columns.

0:41:56 > 0:42:03Very beautiful, because water would have come out of all these...

0:42:05 > 0:42:06..heads.

0:42:07 > 0:42:10It's been customised. And I like the one that...

0:42:10 > 0:42:14the broken one that they've painted a face on.

0:42:16 > 0:42:20It's in Venetian Byzantine style, partly.

0:42:20 > 0:42:26Actually, what they call Indo-Saracenic. Indo-Saracenic?

0:42:28 > 0:42:30That's a very highfalutin name.

0:42:30 > 0:42:33Well, it's a very highfalutin style!

0:42:33 > 0:42:35It's thanks to Ruskin in the end,

0:42:35 > 0:42:37all this.

0:42:37 > 0:42:42Is there quite a lot of Ruskin's influence in Bombay in the architecture?

0:42:42 > 0:42:45I would think.

0:42:45 > 0:42:50But, of course, the influence eventually came from the government art schools.

0:43:01 > 0:43:06But the biggest architectural treat in our entire India trip was yet to come

0:43:06 > 0:43:10and it was Howard's work on the grandest scale -

0:43:10 > 0:43:12an astonishing giant mural

0:43:12 > 0:43:15cut from white marble and black stone

0:43:15 > 0:43:19for the British Council Library in Delhi.

0:43:19 > 0:43:24His collaborator was the Indian architect, Charles Correa.

0:43:24 > 0:43:25The British...

0:43:25 > 0:43:31layer is just one of many, many layers that make India.

0:43:31 > 0:43:34Any Indian is just a pin you push through these layers

0:43:34 > 0:43:38and it hits them at different speeds and with different consequences.

0:43:38 > 0:43:40So that's what that building is about.

0:43:40 > 0:43:44You're trying to express that, and that's how we got that structure.

0:43:44 > 0:43:47We needed something in front, which would convey all this,

0:43:47 > 0:43:53and that's where Howard came up trumps, because he came up with this idea of the shade of a giant tree.

0:43:53 > 0:43:59India is a place where all these things could happen, a really pluralistic world.

0:44:01 > 0:44:05What was the thought in your mind when you came up with this?

0:44:05 > 0:44:09I wanted to do something that's totally...

0:44:09 > 0:44:12non-sectarian in every way

0:44:12 > 0:44:14and...

0:44:14 > 0:44:20I thought of people sitting under banyan trees reading, which is a very...

0:44:20 > 0:44:24familiar subject in early Indian painting.

0:44:24 > 0:44:27I thought it was appropriate for a library.

0:44:29 > 0:44:34So this is all done with stone? Yes. Amazing.

0:44:34 > 0:44:37White marble and black stone.

0:44:39 > 0:44:42I was so amazed that... He has always dealt in colour.

0:44:42 > 0:44:48When you come to India, you'd think you'd want to deal in colour and, of course, he does when he comes...

0:44:48 > 0:44:53But he had the guts to say, "No, shadows are black. The hotter the sun, the blacker the shadow."

0:44:53 > 0:44:57A lot of Mogul buildings are decorated in black and white marble

0:44:57 > 0:44:59and natural stone like this is.

0:45:02 > 0:45:05The person cutting it will...

0:45:05 > 0:45:07say, "OK, like that."

0:45:07 > 0:45:10Whereas, in fact, you need to do...

0:45:13 > 0:45:16It was all cut out with scissors, originally,

0:45:16 > 0:45:18from paper.

0:45:18 > 0:45:21Is that how you did it in order to get it right? Yes.

0:45:21 > 0:45:24It had to be so meticulous in every...

0:45:24 > 0:45:28There's a very good example up there where you see just a little white dot.

0:45:30 > 0:45:36It's just about over your head. There, the peak? The peak, yes.

0:45:36 > 0:45:38I'd call it a mountain peak.

0:45:38 > 0:45:42I think you're right. It's more a peak than a dot.

0:45:42 > 0:45:44I'm sorry.

0:45:44 > 0:45:48Some murals are a little extra on the building. This is the building, isn't it?

0:45:48 > 0:45:52Yes, and that was something that we were both determined it should be.

0:45:52 > 0:45:57The wonderful thing is that black and white holds all the colour at bay,

0:45:57 > 0:46:00and there's so much colour pressing to get in.

0:46:00 > 0:46:02Even the stone around. It's beautifully done.

0:46:02 > 0:46:04Whether these...

0:46:04 > 0:46:09forms are the limbs of a tree or...

0:46:09 > 0:46:14a banyan or whatever, you have a sense of an organic form, that's the key thing.

0:46:14 > 0:46:18There's tension that exists between this organic form

0:46:18 > 0:46:24contained within a rather severe building...

0:46:24 > 0:46:30austere building in a certain sense, except it has this wonderful pink sandstone.

0:46:30 > 0:46:31It's a wonderful balance.

0:46:31 > 0:46:35You have this sense of these forms pushing their way out.

0:46:35 > 0:46:39In that sense, it's very equivalent to many of his paintings.

0:46:52 > 0:46:58'Our last day in India and one last sight we really mustn't miss.'

0:47:03 > 0:47:06Tumescent? Yes.

0:47:08 > 0:47:10Isn't that fabulous?

0:47:14 > 0:47:18Somebody was thinking of me when they arranged that.

0:47:21 > 0:47:26Where is it going, this sunset, this Bombay sunset?

0:47:26 > 0:47:30Into another painting. You going into another painting, do you think?

0:47:30 > 0:47:32Yes.

0:47:32 > 0:47:34I've painted one Bombay sunset already.

0:47:48 > 0:47:51That was from an early...

0:47:51 > 0:47:53trip to Bombay?

0:47:53 > 0:47:56A long time ago. A long time ago. Yes.

0:47:59 > 0:48:01A sunset is such a...

0:48:01 > 0:48:04remarkable happening.

0:48:06 > 0:48:09And it touches people so deeply

0:48:09 > 0:48:10that...

0:48:10 > 0:48:15somehow that makes one want to... makes ME want to paint it more and more.

0:48:17 > 0:48:20And I've painted several

0:48:20 > 0:48:22and I'm painting more at the moment.

0:48:25 > 0:48:27Nothing more about my future plans.

0:48:27 > 0:48:32I asked him, "Is there anybody working at the very top level in England now

0:48:32 > 0:48:36"whose work really depends on yours?"

0:48:36 > 0:48:42Is there a young painter who's taken everything from you and is now working with it? He said, "Nobody."

0:48:42 > 0:48:46I said, "Have you had any influence?" "None."

0:48:46 > 0:48:51And there was, in saying it, half sadness, but much more than half sadness.

0:48:51 > 0:48:56Let's say a quarter sadness. Three-quarters absolute pride, the doggedness of that,

0:48:56 > 0:48:59that I alone now,

0:48:59 > 0:49:05in this room in London, I'm making images that really matter in this way to people.

0:49:05 > 0:49:06Lovely feeling!

0:49:15 > 0:49:16Mmm.

0:49:21 > 0:49:25What's that called, Howard? "Performance Art."

0:49:25 > 0:49:27Do you remember performance art?

0:49:27 > 0:49:31I do, but this is performance art from when?

0:49:31 > 0:49:34When you remember it from.

0:49:34 > 0:49:37Really? From a long time ago. Mmm.

0:49:37 > 0:49:43And that memory has remained with you, and so you made that picture?

0:49:43 > 0:49:44How could I forget?

0:49:49 > 0:49:51"Living Room,

0:49:51 > 0:49:54"1999-2006."

0:49:58 > 0:50:00And why did it wait...

0:50:00 > 0:50:02seven years to be completed?

0:50:04 > 0:50:06Perhaps fortunately it can't talk.

0:50:13 > 0:50:15'It was our last day of filming

0:50:15 > 0:50:18'and just when it seemed that Howard had, typically,

0:50:18 > 0:50:24'contrived to have the last word, something extraordinary happened.

0:50:24 > 0:50:27'He did exactly what he said he never would.

0:50:27 > 0:50:31'He picked up a paintbrush and prepared to paint.'

0:51:01 > 0:51:03I wonder what will become of that?

0:51:03 > 0:51:05Some pictures...

0:51:05 > 0:51:10may go behind that screen there,

0:51:10 > 0:51:15and you may not to back to them for a long period?

0:51:15 > 0:51:17No, but I do.

0:51:17 > 0:51:19You do? Yeah.

0:51:19 > 0:51:24I can't, off-hand, think of a picture that I've completely abandoned.

0:51:26 > 0:51:30But probably when I die, there'll be several waiting...

0:51:30 > 0:51:34for the coup de grace

0:51:34 > 0:51:36and not getting it.

0:51:43 > 0:51:45It's beginning to go.

0:51:45 > 0:51:47It's going beautifully, though.

0:51:47 > 0:51:51It couldn't be more elegant, the way it slides away.

0:51:54 > 0:51:56All good things come to an end.

0:51:56 > 0:51:58Yes!

0:52:01 > 0:52:03And also start afresh.

0:52:07 > 0:52:11'Is it that they are born again and we grow old?

0:52:11 > 0:52:13'No, they die too.

0:52:13 > 0:52:19'Their yearly trick of looking new is written down in rings of grain.

0:52:19 > 0:52:22'Last year is dead, they seem to say.

0:52:22 > 0:52:23'Begin afresh,

0:52:23 > 0:52:26'afresh, afresh.'