0:00:21 > 0:00:27There's something about the singular pursuit of painting the human figure,
0:00:27 > 0:00:30especially in an age dominated by abstract and conceptual art,
0:00:30 > 0:00:35which stands out today. But Lucian Freud, now in his 80s,
0:00:35 > 0:00:40has dedicated his life to doing just that - painting people.
0:00:40 > 0:00:46And no-one alive today has done this more vividly than he has.
0:01:03 > 0:01:08Here at Tate Britain, two years ago, more than 150 works
0:01:08 > 0:01:13painted over the past 60 years were shown to phenomenal acclaim.
0:01:16 > 0:01:20The retrospective went on to Barcelona and Los Angeles.
0:01:20 > 0:01:27There, too, Freud's pre-eminence and the now doubly famous name were spelt out in headlines.
0:01:34 > 0:01:39This Freud, the Freud exposed this brash way,
0:01:39 > 0:01:46is unrecognisable to those who know him, the Lucian Freud who is at pains to preserve his privacy.
0:01:50 > 0:01:55The film you are about to see, made by the director Jake Auerbach
0:01:55 > 0:02:00and William Feaver, curator of the retrospective, was two years in the making.
0:02:00 > 0:02:07It's their portrait of the artist, and it's a remarkable one, a unique portrait of the painter,
0:02:07 > 0:02:11looked at through his work and through the eyes of those best placed to study him -
0:02:11 > 0:02:15his family and friends, his sitters.
0:02:15 > 0:02:21He has always tried to be very private, and doesn't give interviews.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24And so there is a sort of air of mystery about him.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27And he has had to pay for that -
0:02:27 > 0:02:31the few things that are written about him are totally inaccurate, because nobody knows.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34But maybe people who know him,
0:02:34 > 0:02:37like me and the other people you are going to talk to,
0:02:37 > 0:02:43will be able to produce an alternative thing that is the essence of what he is like.
0:02:58 > 0:03:03Well, he suddenly rang me up - and I hadn't heard from him for some time,
0:03:03 > 0:03:06so I was very pleased - and said, "Are you free for lunch?"
0:03:06 > 0:03:13I said yes. Then he arrived almost at once in this glamorous car,
0:03:13 > 0:03:15and I got into it.
0:03:15 > 0:03:20Then we made off for that... the River Cafe.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24You know how frightening he is as a driver?
0:03:24 > 0:03:28And he didn't say anything. He seemed very nervous and troubled,
0:03:28 > 0:03:32and I thought, "What can this be about?"
0:03:32 > 0:03:35I dimly remembered, when we were all much younger,
0:03:35 > 0:03:40there might have been a histoire to do with somebody he was rather keen on.
0:03:40 > 0:03:46I didn't know what it was. And suddenly in the middle of lunch, he suddenly said, "Will you sit for me?"
0:03:46 > 0:03:50So I said, "Of course". He said, "What time would suit you?"
0:03:50 > 0:03:55And I said, out of the blue, "Half past nine in the morning."
0:03:55 > 0:03:57That was for the first picture.
0:03:57 > 0:04:02The next one, I think, I'd moved house and was a little further.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04I think I turned that into ten.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08Both pictures he did of me
0:04:08 > 0:04:10took about a year,
0:04:10 > 0:04:14with me going two or three times a week.
0:04:17 > 0:04:21It's not tiring. All you have to do is to be there.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24I was just the bit of flesh there.
0:04:24 > 0:04:28And it is that mystery of what people actually are.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35To have such a famous name, however admired,
0:04:35 > 0:04:42but also in some cases not admired, I think must have been a terrible handicap.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44But he has risen above it.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48Now when people say Freud, they very often mean him.
0:04:53 > 0:04:58After the sixth Duke, I think they felt they'd got enough.
0:04:58 > 0:05:03The seventh was rather a dry man, who was widowed very young.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06The eighth, who shared my love of horseracing,
0:05:06 > 0:05:11was a great political figure. He had the best of both worlds.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14He had this very long romance with the Duchess of Manchester.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16The ninth wasn't interested in pictures.
0:05:16 > 0:05:20He had a crippling stroke in 1925 when he was relatively young.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23My father was very well-read,
0:05:23 > 0:05:28but not particularly interested in pictures.
0:05:28 > 0:05:33I like to think, by having these family portraits by Lucian,
0:05:33 > 0:05:36I have made a contribution to the art collection here.
0:05:38 > 0:05:45He was a friend of my sister, Anne, whose portrait is behind me, and she introduced me to him.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50The one of Anne
0:05:50 > 0:05:55is so like she was at that time that it's really uncanny.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57Well, so is the one of Elizabeth.
0:06:02 > 0:06:10When we showed that picture of my mother at her then house in London, and she asked our friends in,
0:06:10 > 0:06:16and an uncle by marriage, who was quite a distinguished politician,
0:06:16 > 0:06:21who had been in the Cabinet said, "I have never seen such a frightful picture."
0:06:23 > 0:06:30She was such a wonderful character and a wonderful person to paint, because you could see
0:06:30 > 0:06:33in that picture all the goodness of her coming through.
0:06:33 > 0:06:38And in fact, she was very beautiful, but you don't really see that in the picture.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40But then that's Lucian, isn't it?
0:06:43 > 0:06:47What I think is so extraordinary is that I was 30-something
0:06:47 > 0:06:51when he painted me, and it's rather like I am now at 80-something.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57I think he painted me around 1960, maybe a bit before.
0:06:57 > 0:07:01Then of course, that was quite a discipline,
0:07:01 > 0:07:05because it meant every day for three hours when I was in London.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10It started with an eye. He used to do that, I think, then.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13And I was never allowed to look.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16So I never saw the progress.
0:07:16 > 0:07:22But it seemed to be very long, but of course the company was so marvellous that it didn't matter.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26With anybody else, it would have been endless.
0:07:26 > 0:07:32I was always surprised that such an apparently undisciplined person,
0:07:32 > 0:07:39who could be out all night and seeing friends and girls and whatever was going on,
0:07:39 > 0:07:44was always there when he said he'd be.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47He has such a sort of starry quality about him,
0:07:47 > 0:07:52such an extraordinary sort of mercurial thing.
0:07:52 > 0:07:56It's like something not quite like a human being.
0:07:56 > 0:08:00More like a will-o'-the-wisp or something like that.
0:08:00 > 0:08:05You can't describe... his being quite.
0:08:06 > 0:08:12But he's got such a strong personality that he probably changes people who are with him.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16I don't know if they change for him. I think they probably do.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19But it would be exhausting to live with -
0:08:19 > 0:08:23I mean, to be married to, or, you know... It would be a killer.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33It was not a particularly good time in my life,
0:08:33 > 0:08:37and I think that is echoed in the picture.
0:08:37 > 0:08:42And I think it is a very good picture of what I was like at that particular time.
0:08:45 > 0:08:50His portraits are not to everyone's taste.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53Do I dare use this word?
0:08:53 > 0:08:56His paintings of horses are fairly conventional, aren't they?
0:09:02 > 0:09:05Of course, he is a tremendous gambler,
0:09:05 > 0:09:08which is not unknown in artists.
0:09:11 > 0:09:17I said to him, "You can well afford it. You love racing. Why don't you have a horse or two?"
0:09:17 > 0:09:19And he is so dedicated, he said,
0:09:19 > 0:09:26"No, it would distract me from painting, and painting is the only thing I care about."
0:09:28 > 0:09:33I think his portraits of horses and dogs shows affection,
0:09:33 > 0:09:40while I think, quite honestly, his portraits of ladies in particular is misogynous.
0:09:40 > 0:09:45- Could you explain that?- Well, I mean, although for all his...
0:09:45 > 0:09:47Well, I don't want to be rude or unkind.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52Perhaps you could say that Lucian was something of a philanderer.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54Um...
0:09:54 > 0:09:57But I'm not sure how...
0:09:59 > 0:10:02..how much he loves women.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13If you ask a woman, "What's Freud like?"
0:10:13 > 0:10:16The first thing you say is dishy. He's dishy.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19He's one of those rare people
0:10:19 > 0:10:24who have that sexual charisma that they are born with it and they have it till the day they die.
0:10:24 > 0:10:30And it's Picasso, Jan Morrow, people like that. It's extraordinary.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32And he's like that.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34So he's dishy.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36Um...
0:10:37 > 0:10:43Well, he had organised just the bed, and he just said, "Lie down."
0:10:43 > 0:10:48And he had the canvas already there, and then he just said, "Look at me."
0:10:48 > 0:10:51So it just meant doing that -
0:10:51 > 0:10:54sort of leaning over to look at him.
0:10:54 > 0:10:58It was just comfortable like that with sort of my hand on my head.
0:10:58 > 0:11:03And you are lying there and you're smelling something from the kitchen.
0:11:03 > 0:11:08He loves game. So he's always sort of roasting stuff for the break,
0:11:08 > 0:11:13and you get fed on woodcock or quail with champagne for the break.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16So I got fatter and fatter and fatter during this sitting!
0:11:18 > 0:11:21When I look at the portrait of me,
0:11:21 > 0:11:24the leg, the top leg is my leg.
0:11:24 > 0:11:29It's like my flesh up there. It feels part of me in a peculiar way.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32It's nobody else's in the world.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35It seems like me up there.
0:11:35 > 0:11:40It was three or four nights a week, four to six hours a night, going on for months.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44It's a hell of a commitment.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46Painting comes first.
0:11:46 > 0:11:52And I think that's been a problem with the women in his life who tried to fight it.
0:11:52 > 0:11:59Nothing, nothing gets in the way of that - no social convention, illness, holidays, nothing.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06I just help out.
0:12:06 > 0:12:08I'm around there every day.
0:12:08 > 0:12:15I might be able to make his life a bit simpler so he can carry on painting and I can do the errands.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21He's hugely generous and is considerate of people's feelings.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23Um...
0:12:23 > 0:12:29But he's also hugely demanding for his work. Everything is about...
0:12:29 > 0:12:32I mean, his work comes first,
0:12:32 > 0:12:36and everything is turned around for his painting.
0:12:39 > 0:12:45Lucian will get his sitters round for seven or eight hours, or from eight in the morning
0:12:45 > 0:12:51to three in the afternoon, then the night time paintings would start at seven till one in the morning.
0:12:57 > 0:13:04You have to be totally absorbed in believing in what you're doing and believing in Lucian.
0:13:04 > 0:13:07It's a very long painting.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11I'm lying across the bed and there was this whole area
0:13:11 > 0:13:14in the foreground which sort of needed something.
0:13:14 > 0:13:20And we tried various things - sort of an old plant and my jeans.
0:13:20 > 0:13:27It suddenly seemed more exciting to have some more human parts,
0:13:27 > 0:13:31and we had this idea of sticking my knees out from under the bed.
0:13:31 > 0:13:37So that's what stuck, and it is a good echo of myself on the bed
0:13:37 > 0:13:40and then an extra pair of legs underneath.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45It is a matter of shedding away all the paraphernalia
0:13:45 > 0:13:48that goes with everyday living,
0:13:48 > 0:13:53and you quietly reach a core of someone's being
0:13:53 > 0:13:59through sitting still for many hours, four or five times a week.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03You're left with this quiet space.
0:14:03 > 0:14:04Um...
0:14:04 > 0:14:10And that's what people mistakenly read as boredom or depression.
0:14:10 > 0:14:16It's because someone is just being very quiet, and not introverted, but just being themselves.
0:14:16 > 0:14:21And that's what comes out through the paintings,
0:14:21 > 0:14:25is the individuality of each person is so different to another's.
0:14:25 > 0:14:31So no two sitters ever look alike in their psychological make-up
0:14:31 > 0:14:33or in the feel of the painting or anything.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40He never introduces anybody to anyone.
0:14:40 > 0:14:44He doesn't like everybody meeting,
0:14:44 > 0:14:48so he does keep everyone separate.
0:14:48 > 0:14:52Yeah, literally, people are kept in separate rooms.
0:14:52 > 0:14:58I think it's Lucian giving all his concentration to the one person he is involved with in the room.
0:14:58 > 0:15:05And then when that situation is over, he will then go on to who else is in the flat or in the house.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12I think a first saw him
0:15:12 > 0:15:18in a black nightclub called the Antilles.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21Then I saw him at the Gargoyle.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25So I saw him flickering about...
0:15:25 > 0:15:30in these circumstances, really, and wondered about him.
0:15:30 > 0:15:35And he seemed to have much more life than anyone else I'd ever seen.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37He seemed so electric.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43He asked me if I would sit, and I said I would.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45And I felt...
0:15:45 > 0:15:48I wanted to please him.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50I think it was as simple as that.
0:15:53 > 0:15:57Initially, for instance, with this one,
0:15:57 > 0:16:02it was much lighter and I didn't feel any sense of strain, really.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04It was a sort of happy period,
0:16:04 > 0:16:06and...
0:16:06 > 0:16:09and it seemed quite domestic.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12With the following portrait,
0:16:12 > 0:16:17it was much more of a strain, because I think things were going on in my my life,
0:16:17 > 0:16:24things were going on in his life, and there was always an element of hidden relationships lurking
0:16:24 > 0:16:31that one didn't know about, which were upsetting and worrying at the time.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38I think the actual fact
0:16:38 > 0:16:42of being used by Lucian,
0:16:42 > 0:16:47with whom one is having a very close relationship,
0:16:47 > 0:16:53it does mean that the fact of the painting takes on another meaning,
0:16:53 > 0:16:57and other people, the painters that I have sat for,
0:16:57 > 0:17:02I felt more I was there like a still life, like an apple or a bottle or something.
0:17:02 > 0:17:08But it didn't mean that at the end the bottle or the apple would be thrown out.
0:17:09 > 0:17:13I had a strong relationship with Lucian and I loved him very much.
0:17:13 > 0:17:19And so it was like being flung out of the Garden of Eden.
0:17:24 > 0:17:28Well, he asked me first about two years ago,
0:17:28 > 0:17:33and I said, "Well, I'm not here long enough.
0:17:33 > 0:17:38"I don't stay in England long enough, actually. I'm usually..."
0:17:38 > 0:17:45I used to come every three months to see my mother, and I wasn't in London very long.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49I said, "I don't think I'm here long enough to."
0:17:49 > 0:17:54And this time, when I came back in March, I said,
0:17:54 > 0:17:59"Well maybe I'll be here, maybe I'll be here long enough.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01"We could start anyway."
0:18:01 > 0:18:03Er,
0:18:03 > 0:18:05so we did.
0:18:08 > 0:18:15His method of painting is very good, because, being slow, it means you can talk.
0:18:15 > 0:18:20If you're going to draw someone in one hour,
0:18:20 > 0:18:27you can't really chat to them, because you haven't got that long and you want to watch the face.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31But if you do have longer and you talk,
0:18:31 > 0:18:38you of course get to know and watch the face do a lot of things, I think.
0:18:39 > 0:18:44And obviously, that's part of his method, isn't it?
0:18:46 > 0:18:51He'd sometimes come very close to look,
0:18:51 > 0:18:58and then I'm imagining I suppose he's looking at the subtle differences...
0:18:58 > 0:19:00here.
0:19:00 > 0:19:06And they are there, but most people are not looking at them.
0:19:06 > 0:19:10But he's looking and peering, peering,
0:19:10 > 0:19:13coming closer and closer.
0:19:16 > 0:19:21He has this energy that I must admit comes across to you as well.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25You know, "Well, I daren't fall asleep here.
0:19:25 > 0:19:27"I'm only 65."
0:19:27 > 0:19:31You are aware of that somehow.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42I think I can see that the portraits,
0:19:42 > 0:19:46as they have gone on, I think they've got better and better.
0:19:46 > 0:19:51And I suppose there's not that many people will give up the time,
0:19:51 > 0:19:53probably,
0:19:53 > 0:19:55to do it.
0:19:55 > 0:20:01I think they're as good portraits as have been done by anybody.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40What he's doing, I mean, it's so layered.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45Photographs can't get near it.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52They thought the photograph would do... And it won't, really.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56Nothing can replace painting, nothing.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59Er, I'm...
0:20:59 > 0:21:02I'm totally convinced of that now.
0:21:02 > 0:21:06I had to go through all those things, looking at photographs and stuff.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09Lucian just carries on painting.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20There's a certain way that people behave when they are around him.
0:21:20 > 0:21:25Often, I notice I'm sort of standing on one toe when I'm with him,
0:21:25 > 0:21:28that I haven't grounded myself,
0:21:28 > 0:21:33because I'm so affected by his presence, which is so powerful.
0:21:33 > 0:21:37And I don't think I've hardly seen anybody not behave like that.
0:21:39 > 0:21:43You have a choice - and not all of his children have made it -
0:21:43 > 0:21:49from very young, that you can get the good bit if you want to accept what he's like,
0:21:49 > 0:21:55or you can not get it by being angry for him not being like someone else's father.
0:21:55 > 0:21:59And it's an intelligent choice you can make as a child.
0:21:59 > 0:22:05And we just decided, without realising it, to make that choice.
0:22:05 > 0:22:11When I was 16, I moved to London, and almost immediately I started to sit for him.
0:22:11 > 0:22:15And it was a really lovely way of getting to know him,
0:22:15 > 0:22:19because until then, I hadn't ever lived in the same city as him.
0:22:19 > 0:22:24So I'd only seen him in a formal way, just for a day, or over a meal.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28When I went for my first sitting...
0:22:30 > 0:22:36..I went into the studio, and I was aware that there were some huge canvases around me
0:22:36 > 0:22:40that had paintings of naked women.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44So I took my clothes off and sat on the sofa.
0:22:45 > 0:22:50My father once said, "Oh, well, my daughters have nothing to be ashamed of."
0:22:50 > 0:22:54And we didn't. It never occurred to me to be ashamed.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57Then, after that, I didn't sit in the nude.
0:22:57 > 0:23:01I feel I can see myself becoming more confident.
0:23:01 > 0:23:07But then the last time I sat with my first child when he was a baby,
0:23:07 > 0:23:10it was just going to be a picture of the baby,
0:23:10 > 0:23:13but as he wouldn't sit still without being fed,
0:23:13 > 0:23:17it was a huge picture of my bosom and the baby.
0:23:19 > 0:23:26The painting I love most and feel is more me is the painting of me and my sister Bella.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30There's something humorous about it, he has captured both our characters
0:23:30 > 0:23:36and the way that we are positioned, the way we arranged ourselves on the sofa.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39I feel affectionate towards that painting,
0:23:39 > 0:23:45and also my memories of that are the three of us being together was so enjoyable.
0:23:46 > 0:23:50Esther is very funny and so is Dad, so, um...
0:23:54 > 0:24:00It's funny, I've got a much stronger memory of the paintings I did on my own
0:24:00 > 0:24:07than those ones together, even with Esther, who I could speak to for 20 hours a day if I got a chance.
0:24:12 > 0:24:20I bought that from him while I was sitting, and I said to him, "Who is this baby?"
0:24:20 > 0:24:23And he said, "It's just a baby."
0:24:23 > 0:24:29And years later, we were talking on the telephone, and he said, "Have you still got Bella?"
0:24:29 > 0:24:32And I said, "What do you mean?"
0:24:32 > 0:24:36And he said, "Well, you've got the painting of Bella as a baby."
0:24:36 > 0:24:39I didn't know. But there she is.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42By the time I did see that picture,
0:24:42 > 0:24:46it was just a baby and I couldn't recognise any of myself in it.
0:24:46 > 0:24:51So it was probably the least meaningful painting.
0:24:51 > 0:24:57But my father did a tiny picture of me and him from a photograph,
0:24:57 > 0:25:00and that I really liked.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03There was something about...
0:25:03 > 0:25:07I felt a particular kind of affection, and that used to belong to my mother.
0:25:07 > 0:25:11And it was time captured of us both together.
0:25:14 > 0:25:18I left home when I was 16 and moved to London,
0:25:18 > 0:25:22and immediately started sitting for my father,
0:25:22 > 0:25:27and sat on and off for the next eight years.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31I had this black dress with flowers embroidered on, and I think...
0:25:31 > 0:25:38Dad immediately took a liking to it, so we did two pictures in succession with that dress.
0:25:38 > 0:25:41And then, and then...
0:25:41 > 0:25:46I can't remember when I did my nude, but I think it was after that.
0:25:49 > 0:25:54Always, when I used to go and sit, however troubled I was,
0:25:54 > 0:25:57I always felt that I left it at the door.
0:25:57 > 0:26:02And then he always made a very nice atmosphere and was very considerate.
0:26:02 > 0:26:07It was always nice and warm, and lots of lovely food, or we'd go out.
0:26:07 > 0:26:13He'd make it nice in the way that was special for each person,
0:26:13 > 0:26:20so he could, you know, get our maximum...cooperation, or enjoyment as well.
0:26:28 > 0:26:33I moved just round the corner from Thorn Gate
0:26:33 > 0:26:36when I was 15.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39So then he used to come round sometimes,
0:26:39 > 0:26:43and I didn't have a telephone. I don't think he had one either.
0:26:43 > 0:26:46I had a boyfriend then who worked in a factory,
0:26:46 > 0:26:51Dad paid £6 a week and the boyfriend paid £6 a week towards the rent.
0:26:52 > 0:27:00For a person who used to dislike the feeling of having dependents or having regular commitments,
0:27:00 > 0:27:02I think I recognise for him that...
0:27:02 > 0:27:05Not that £6 was a lot of money.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09But that it was actually, "OK, I can do that for you."
0:27:09 > 0:27:12That seemed to be something he could do,
0:27:12 > 0:27:15and that was significant, you know, at the time.
0:27:20 > 0:27:25I think it's a great painting and I'm very proud of it. I certainly have no regrets whatsoever.
0:27:25 > 0:27:32I wouldn't say I would do it again tomorrow, but I'd do it again tomorrow if I was still 19.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36And it's amazing what went on between the two of us during that sitting -
0:27:36 > 0:27:41how there was a certain amount of combat, under the surface,
0:27:41 > 0:27:45maybe some of it more on the surface.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47But, um...
0:27:47 > 0:27:54But the experience of it was very tough and very hard work and very long hours and very intense.
0:27:54 > 0:28:00And my heel was jammed right up against my thighs. All my muscles are completely tense.
0:28:00 > 0:28:05Sometimes I would hold that for 90 minutes, and it was not comfortable.
0:28:05 > 0:28:09I didn't want to feel all sort of floppy and soggy.
0:28:09 > 0:28:13I wanted to feel, "I'm just about to spring into action."
0:28:13 > 0:28:18So I was in a position that, for me,
0:28:18 > 0:28:22felt maybe a bit guarded and a bit aggressive.
0:28:22 > 0:28:26I could have been extremely, extremely, extremely angry,
0:28:26 > 0:28:28and I wasn't.
0:28:28 > 0:28:33And I felt there was potential for me to suddenly get up and say,
0:28:33 > 0:28:38"Look, BLEEP, I'm not doing this any more."
0:28:38 > 0:28:43Or, "Where were you when I needed you, you bastard?" Or something like that.
0:28:43 > 0:28:51I think he was maybe a little bit worried in case I was suddenly going to actually spring up and protest.
0:28:54 > 0:29:01I had... I mean... I wouldn't try and pretend that it was simple, what was going on.
0:29:01 > 0:29:06But the fact of not having any clothes on didn't, to me, make it any more complicated.
0:29:06 > 0:29:11If I hadn't been his daughter, it wouldn't have been strange.
0:29:11 > 0:29:16And I suppose it was because I was his daughter, I am his daughter,
0:29:16 > 0:29:20and so people think, because he's Sigmund Freud's grandson,
0:29:20 > 0:29:24then we must have an oedipal complex. And that seemed to me,
0:29:24 > 0:29:29once someone starts thinking like that, there's not much point talking to them.
0:29:37 > 0:29:42I'd probably arrive at eight o'clock here at the studio.
0:29:42 > 0:29:47Lucian is always up, and probably working for a couple of hours prior to my arrival.
0:29:47 > 0:29:51We then go to the local restaurant.
0:29:51 > 0:29:55We have a cup of coffee, or I have some fruit juice.
0:29:55 > 0:29:58Come back here, buying papers on the way.
0:29:58 > 0:30:02I then... Perhaps we chatter for a while downstairs in the kitchen.
0:30:02 > 0:30:06I then go upstairs and change. There's a room at the top where the uniform is kept.
0:30:08 > 0:30:12Basically, military portraits are done...
0:30:12 > 0:30:15They are slightly flattering, this one isn't.
0:30:15 > 0:30:20Secondly, people are looking their best and their uniforms are buffed up and buttoned up.
0:30:20 > 0:30:26And you can't pretend, in this portrait, that it is like that.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29When one looks in the mirror,
0:30:29 > 0:30:33one always thinks perhaps one doesn't look quite so red and bald.
0:30:33 > 0:30:39But actually, it is a very true, so far, portrait of how I do obviously look.
0:30:42 > 0:30:47People fault him for being too accurate and realistic and he never flatters.
0:30:47 > 0:30:52Lucian says time and time again, "I paint what I see, not what you hope I will see."
0:30:57 > 0:31:00I think it was in 1980, or around about 1980,
0:31:00 > 0:31:04a friend of his and a friend of mine, Michael Tree,
0:31:04 > 0:31:08said would I mind if Lucian Freud came to Hyde Park Barracks,
0:31:08 > 0:31:12I was in the Household Cavalry, and did a picture of a horse.
0:31:12 > 0:31:17I was rather excited about it. So he came, did a picture of the horse.
0:31:17 > 0:31:21Then he and I started riding together in Hyde Park,
0:31:21 > 0:31:26which was great fun, but always worried me that he refused to wear a hard hat.
0:31:26 > 0:31:30He didn't like walking. He loved cantering and galloping.
0:31:30 > 0:31:35I thought I'd be blamed if he fell on his head for killing England's greatest painter.
0:31:37 > 0:31:41He's a very brave horseman. He understands horses.
0:31:41 > 0:31:46It's interesting seeing him with horses. He makes the right moves,
0:31:46 > 0:31:48doesn't frighten horses.
0:31:48 > 0:31:49Yes, you can see that he...
0:31:49 > 0:31:54One, he is a good and brave rider, and secondly, he enjoys their company.
0:31:56 > 0:32:02When I sit for Lucian, quite a lot of the time's taken up with talking, which is always fascinating.
0:32:02 > 0:32:08I mean, this morning, he was quoting everything from Shakespeare to Kipling.
0:32:08 > 0:32:14And he's got an amazing memory, going right back to before the war - people's names and what they did,
0:32:14 > 0:32:16what they said, which is fascinating.
0:32:16 > 0:32:21Also, what I learnt a lot about is - I ask his opinion of various artists and their work.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25I've been around exhibitions with him in the early morning or late at night.
0:32:25 > 0:32:30His knowledge is so deep that I've learnt an awful lot in the last year.
0:32:32 > 0:32:38I must say I'm very happy when I see the white of the canvas disappearing under paint.
0:32:38 > 0:32:44That does fill me with enthusiasm and encouragement, yes.
0:32:44 > 0:32:50I do believe that he is the greatest artist alive at the moment.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53And therefore, I'm very lucky to be sitting for him.
0:32:53 > 0:32:56And I think when it's finished,
0:32:56 > 0:32:59it will be a chapter in one's life and we move on to another chapter.
0:33:06 > 0:33:09I remember - I have such a vivid memory of him
0:33:09 > 0:33:12when I first of all saw him.
0:33:12 > 0:33:13He, um...
0:33:13 > 0:33:19He came into the life-drawing studio, very intense,
0:33:19 > 0:33:24and gave a very intense stare at the model who was lying on the floor.
0:33:24 > 0:33:25And, um,
0:33:25 > 0:33:29he was wearing the most beautiful grey suit
0:33:29 > 0:33:32and a pale shirt
0:33:32 > 0:33:36and smoking a French cigarette
0:33:36 > 0:33:39and just...
0:33:39 > 0:33:42very, very charismatic.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45And, um...
0:33:45 > 0:33:50I was nervous of him because he had such power
0:33:50 > 0:33:55that I went up to him and asked him to see my work.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58He told me afterwards
0:33:58 > 0:34:03that he had come to the Slade to find a girl and that girl was me.
0:34:03 > 0:34:11So, I think he had very much come to the Slade to find someone.
0:34:13 > 0:34:17When I sat for the Naked Girl With Eggs,
0:34:17 > 0:34:22I was so very unhappy about it. I felt...
0:34:22 > 0:34:25It did feel very like me -
0:34:25 > 0:34:30I felt sort of excruciated by how like me it was.
0:34:30 > 0:34:34I know I used to cry a lot
0:34:34 > 0:34:40and Lucian used to be actually very nice about it.
0:34:41 > 0:34:45His work is all about truth and...
0:34:45 > 0:34:49and...
0:34:49 > 0:34:55and the only way you can really tell the truth
0:34:55 > 0:34:59is by concentrating and not turning away from it.
0:35:03 > 0:35:08I suppose I love the one of me in the striped nightshirt.
0:35:08 > 0:35:11Partly, I was pregnant at the time
0:35:11 > 0:35:17and so it is a sort of record of our closeness.
0:35:17 > 0:35:22I think you can sort of see that he loves me in it
0:35:22 > 0:35:23and...
0:35:23 > 0:35:27there just seems to be something so tender about it.
0:35:27 > 0:35:32In a way, I am very proud of the one of the painter and model,
0:35:32 > 0:35:37despite the real-life situation - Lucian having the real power.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41I think he's made me a very represent,
0:35:41 > 0:35:45powerful woman painter.
0:35:47 > 0:35:55I know Lucian always likes to resist any kind of narrative interpretation,
0:35:55 > 0:35:56but for me,
0:35:56 > 0:36:00I think the painting is about power and desire.
0:36:00 > 0:36:05I think this is a very sexual thing -
0:36:05 > 0:36:08the paint squirting out of the tube.
0:36:08 > 0:36:14And also, like the angled brush and everything,
0:36:14 > 0:36:16it seems very much
0:36:16 > 0:36:22that I am almost the male figure of the two.
0:36:23 > 0:36:29I feel so connected with the story of how each one was made
0:36:29 > 0:36:34that it is difficult for me to see the paintings
0:36:34 > 0:36:40without thinking of all that went into it. So...
0:36:46 > 0:36:48Um...
0:36:48 > 0:36:54I think I feel connected to their history,
0:36:54 > 0:36:57rather than to them themselves.
0:37:13 > 0:37:18In 1990, the performance artist Leigh Bowery began sitting for Freud
0:37:18 > 0:37:22for what became a whole series of paintings.
0:37:33 > 0:37:38After a while, Bowery became more in demand as a performer.
0:37:38 > 0:37:43He was also increasingly aware of his declining health.
0:37:53 > 0:37:57In 1993, a year or so before he died,
0:37:57 > 0:38:03he introduced to Freud friends of his who he thought would make good sitters.
0:38:06 > 0:38:08Him and Leigh,
0:38:08 > 0:38:11they both had that little naughtiness about them.
0:38:11 > 0:38:15I think that is why they liked each other so much.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18They were always testing you.
0:38:21 > 0:38:29The first painting that I was painted in with Leigh Bowery was called And The Bridegroom.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32It's a painting of me and Leigh on a bed together.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38Leigh was determined that he wanted to be on his back.
0:38:38 > 0:38:43He was trying his hardest to get the most comfortable pose.
0:38:45 > 0:38:49Nicola Bateman, Bowery's widow, began sitting for paintings that,
0:38:49 > 0:38:53for the sitter, were real, physical challenges.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58It is a strange pose,
0:38:58 > 0:39:03but I think he thought I was small enough to be able to fit up there and he had this idea.
0:39:05 > 0:39:10As he was coming towards the end of painting that one and finishing it,
0:39:10 > 0:39:13it was around that time that Leigh started to die.
0:39:13 > 0:39:18The whole time, I was just thinking about Leigh in hospital
0:39:18 > 0:39:23and why the new drug was not working, was he going to die?
0:39:23 > 0:39:28And then the certainty of knowing that he is dying right now.
0:39:28 > 0:39:34It gave me a little bit of breathing space from the situation because I was with Leigh from morning -
0:39:34 > 0:39:39from about 9 o'clock - till I sat for Lucian in the evening,
0:39:39 > 0:39:41which was about six.
0:39:41 > 0:39:46It gave me a bit of breathing space, which I think I needed.
0:39:46 > 0:39:49I think it was a very intense period of time,
0:39:49 > 0:39:53so to have a legitimate excuse to go, to be away, was good.
0:40:00 > 0:40:05I work in a JobCentre. Leigh thought that wasn't good enough for me
0:40:05 > 0:40:08and I should expand my mind and learn more.
0:40:08 > 0:40:11He thought working for Lucian was like going to university
0:40:11 > 0:40:14because he learnt so much.
0:40:14 > 0:40:17He planted the seed in Lucian's mind that I should work for him.
0:40:19 > 0:40:22I was a bit nervous about taking my clothes off,
0:40:22 > 0:40:24but Leigh came round...
0:40:24 > 0:40:26Before we went there, Leigh came to call for me first
0:40:26 > 0:40:30and he made me take my clothes off and lie on the settee to practise.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33And to poke fun at me!
0:40:33 > 0:40:38I just look horrible. I look like a great, huge, fat crab,
0:40:38 > 0:40:42all laid out on the floor in a funny position.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45That was so uncomfortable and the reason...
0:40:45 > 0:40:49It was my first picture and Leigh was in it,
0:40:49 > 0:40:53before he went off somewhere, and he got changed into the dog.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57It is a blessing that I look so horrible in the pictures.
0:40:57 > 0:41:01In real life, people are always surprised I look a bit better.
0:41:01 > 0:41:05I think it was more Lucian's image of me rather than me myself.
0:41:05 > 0:41:08If you can understand that.
0:41:08 > 0:41:10Sometimes I was really in the mood for chatting.
0:41:10 > 0:41:14I had lots of energy and then he was in a silent mood.
0:41:14 > 0:41:18Other times, I might have a terrible hangover and thought I could sleep.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21Then he would be so chatty.
0:41:21 > 0:41:25Sometimes he would be serious and suddenly he would start swearing. BLEEP!
0:41:25 > 0:41:27Like he had Tourettes.
0:41:27 > 0:41:32He would start smashing the brushes when something wasn't going quite right.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34I used to get embarrassed and keep my eyes closed.
0:41:39 > 0:41:43Yes, I think really he has done what he wants throughout his life.
0:41:43 > 0:41:46And good luck to him for doing that.
0:41:46 > 0:41:52Most people are too - feel guilty or whatever to behave like that.
0:41:55 > 0:42:01He looks a lot more intently I think than any other situation. The way he looks is so...
0:42:01 > 0:42:05I don't know, intrusive in a way.
0:42:05 > 0:42:12He'll appreciate shapes and forms for the way it will go on a canvas,
0:42:12 > 0:42:17not as a person, not as a human being, but as the image, really.
0:42:17 > 0:42:21He will see something that excites him or interests him
0:42:21 > 0:42:24and that will be the idea for another painting.
0:42:27 > 0:42:30He had recently got in touch with Freddie,
0:42:30 > 0:42:34the male in the picture, and Sarah, who was a friend of mine
0:42:34 > 0:42:38who I introduced to Lucian, had just sat for him.
0:42:38 > 0:42:45He approached us all about it and whether we would do it with other people in the picture.
0:42:45 > 0:42:47It is all quite realistic, really.
0:42:47 > 0:42:49It's not some...
0:42:49 > 0:42:51Once it is all finished,
0:42:51 > 0:42:56it is a work of art, but it's all very practical and straightforward.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18The After Watteau painting is so melancholy.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20I think there is something...
0:43:20 > 0:43:22um, about...
0:43:22 > 0:43:26I mean to do with how very...
0:43:26 > 0:43:29isolated we all seem.
0:43:29 > 0:43:33Physically, in terms of sitting, that was the most uncomfortable one.
0:43:33 > 0:43:38It was very hot and I didn't like sitting next to other people
0:43:38 > 0:43:43when we did all have to be together because it made it even hotter.
0:43:44 > 0:43:50Then I had to sit up and, you know, hold that mandolin
0:43:50 > 0:43:54and I began to hate the dress because it was so old and dusty.
0:43:54 > 0:44:00Often, when I did sit, it would be more with Celia
0:44:00 > 0:44:04and we didn't sit all together that much, except at the beginning.
0:44:07 > 0:44:11Because Lucian likes to keep every relationship
0:44:11 > 0:44:15and every strand of his life so very separate,
0:44:15 > 0:44:18um...
0:44:18 > 0:44:25it was an exciting challenge to bring together people that, you know, mattered to him.
0:44:32 > 0:44:35When I started sitting, it was in a skirt that my mother was wearing
0:44:35 > 0:44:40because she stopped sitting, and that was quite odd.
0:44:40 > 0:44:43I think I started sitting,
0:44:43 > 0:44:47not as an understudy, when I was 18 or 19.
0:44:47 > 0:44:51I can't quite remember, but I think I'd just moved to a flat in Kilburn.
0:44:51 > 0:44:56I remember putting a lot of make-up on the first time, which I didn't normally wear.
0:44:59 > 0:45:03It's funny because in one way, it's quite intense and personal,
0:45:03 > 0:45:06and, in another way, it's quite businesslike,
0:45:06 > 0:45:09in that work is taking place.
0:45:10 > 0:45:14Although we are very different characters,
0:45:14 > 0:45:18we seemed to have a lot in common and have the same interests.
0:45:20 > 0:45:24We talked a lot about what we were reading and also,
0:45:24 > 0:45:32I was very interested in musicals and the music hall and we talked a lot about that.
0:45:32 > 0:45:35Sometimes sang a bit. It was nice.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40I think now if I was sitting, I might be slightly aware that,
0:45:40 > 0:45:44in order for him to work, it meant that I couldn't be,
0:45:44 > 0:45:50but then I would quite often think about what I was working on when I was there.
0:45:50 > 0:45:53In fact, it was quite useful in that way,
0:45:53 > 0:46:00in terms of thinking of how to take a book on, how to develop a character or something.
0:46:07 > 0:46:09I think it has always been,
0:46:09 > 0:46:12on balance, a very satisfying experience.
0:46:21 > 0:46:24He wasn't painting me for a bit
0:46:24 > 0:46:31and I put my little Beanie Baby on my head and I was trying to balance it.
0:46:31 > 0:46:35Then he said, "Why don't I paint you like that?"
0:46:35 > 0:46:37So, we...
0:46:37 > 0:46:43He hadn't painted my head yet, so he painted my head with a Beanie Baby koala on.
0:46:43 > 0:46:46It was a bit strange, but it looked OK.
0:46:49 > 0:46:51He sings very strange songs,
0:46:51 > 0:46:54which I have all forgotten,
0:46:54 > 0:46:59but you wouldn't think there would be a song about that kind of thing.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01It's very strange.
0:47:03 > 0:47:05He just...
0:47:05 > 0:47:10He just makes the boringest subject quite interesting, which is quite good.
0:47:12 > 0:47:16I think that's been very nice for me, with Alice sitting,
0:47:16 > 0:47:20that I have been very careful to say to Dad
0:47:20 > 0:47:24that I wanted them picked up and dropped off.
0:47:24 > 0:47:28For me, I have negative associations with the journey.
0:47:28 > 0:47:35That's partly my fault because he would give me the cab fare home and I'd get the bus to save the money.
0:47:35 > 0:47:41I remember having to be literally taken screaming and crying
0:47:41 > 0:47:44from family life on a Sunday, I just didn't want to go.
0:47:44 > 0:47:49I remember my mum quite, you know, sympathetic to me,
0:47:49 > 0:47:55yet knowing I must go because we've made this commitment to do this picture,
0:47:55 > 0:47:59and her kind of stress and my tantrums and...
0:47:59 > 0:48:02This is what I can remember.
0:48:02 > 0:48:07And then, the second when I was about 16.
0:48:07 > 0:48:09Third one when I was about 23...
0:48:09 > 0:48:13- With Daddy.- 28... - You did a picture with Daddy, Mum.
0:48:13 > 0:48:18One with Daddy, and the most recent one was...
0:48:18 > 0:48:21five or six years ago, I think.
0:48:21 > 0:48:26That one took for ever. Just for ever and ever.
0:48:26 > 0:48:30In fact, I read all three volumes of Remembrance Of Things Past
0:48:30 > 0:48:33whilst sitting for it, and a couple of other books besides.
0:48:33 > 0:48:36That's how long it took.
0:48:36 > 0:48:42That was very different from the time before, where I sat with...
0:48:42 > 0:48:46I think it was a picture with the children's father,
0:48:46 > 0:48:51which was a very different kind of situation at the time.
0:48:51 > 0:48:56We were very close and, you know, we were physically close when the picture was being painted.
0:48:56 > 0:49:02The later picture, it was fairly shortly after we had separated.
0:49:02 > 0:49:04And, um...it was...
0:49:04 > 0:49:09There is a very different atmosphere in both pictures,
0:49:09 > 0:49:13probably as a result of me being in a very different state of mind.
0:49:13 > 0:49:18It's something I've always said I'll never do again and then have.
0:49:18 > 0:49:23- And so, why? Why do you do it again?- Um...
0:49:23 > 0:49:26Why do I do it again?
0:49:36 > 0:49:38I guess...
0:49:38 > 0:49:45because it's a way of having a relationship with my dad.
0:49:45 > 0:49:48Um, and...
0:49:48 > 0:49:50I don't...
0:49:50 > 0:49:55There's a part of me that if he wants to paint, I am quite flattered.
0:49:55 > 0:50:01I always start off saying it has got to be an etching or a drawing or something really small,
0:50:01 > 0:50:08and then I nod off and then there's a canvas on the easel, so some hoodwinking has gone on.
0:50:08 > 0:50:15I see each picture as, kind of, representing a period in my life in that way.
0:50:15 > 0:50:21Because, it's not really a snapshot like a photo, if you spent six months or something -
0:50:21 > 0:50:26it is a substantial enough period to have how you felt at that time -
0:50:26 > 0:50:31your state of mind or what you are going through - encapsulated in a picture.
0:50:33 > 0:50:38It did look like her but it was a bit unflattering and I thought,
0:50:38 > 0:50:43"My mum's a bit prettier than that." I don't know. I think he's good.
0:50:43 > 0:50:47He draws his family quite a lot of the time
0:50:47 > 0:50:53and I don't think those pictures are much different from people he doesn't know that well.
0:50:53 > 0:50:59I think he does make some people look a bit uglier then they are, but I don't think he is thinking,
0:50:59 > 0:51:04"I'm making them look pretty, I'm making them look ugly."
0:51:04 > 0:51:08I think he just does what he sees, and if that turns out badly, I don't think he...
0:51:08 > 0:51:14He doesn't care what people think anyway, so I don't think it really makes a difference.
0:51:24 > 0:51:27I don't think it was entirely his idea to do me and Mark together.
0:51:27 > 0:51:30I think that was my idea.
0:51:30 > 0:51:34I might be wrong, but I think maybe Dad said, "Do you want to sit?"
0:51:34 > 0:51:37And maybe I said, "What about doing it with Mark?"
0:51:37 > 0:51:43Then, Mark was doing his teaching degree
0:51:43 > 0:51:46and so I said I'd perch on the arm of the armchair
0:51:46 > 0:51:53and he can sit on the armchair, as the one thing worse than being really uncomfortable
0:51:53 > 0:51:56is having a really uncomfortable, tired husband.
0:51:56 > 0:52:00I thought if he sits in the chair, I can handle it. Ha!
0:52:00 > 0:52:05And then I got pregnant and when I told him about the pregnancy,
0:52:05 > 0:52:08I don't think... His first impulse wasn't either,
0:52:08 > 0:52:12"Oh, congratulations, everything is going to be great now."
0:52:12 > 0:52:14Or, "I'm going to be a grandfather."
0:52:14 > 0:52:19It was, "BLEEP, that is really going to BLEEP my painting." I'm sure that...
0:52:19 > 0:52:21He didn't say that and didn't let on,
0:52:21 > 0:52:26but that had to be his initial reaction, because why wouldn't it?
0:52:26 > 0:52:31He is trying to do this painting and there's this woman expanding,
0:52:31 > 0:52:33balanced on the arm of this chair.
0:52:33 > 0:52:38So then I told Dad that we could come back but Stella would have to be in the picture as well.
0:52:38 > 0:52:43I think Dad decided that she should sit on Mark's knee,
0:52:43 > 0:52:49so then Alex got in on the act as he was going to feel left out
0:52:49 > 0:52:54if it was this big Pearce family number, and what happened to him?
0:52:54 > 0:52:57I thought that would be hard for him also.
0:52:57 > 0:52:59When Stella was nine months, I got pregnant again.
0:52:59 > 0:53:05Then, all of a sudden, I was making the announcement for the second time.
0:53:05 > 0:53:10It wasn't long after giving birth to Vincent that the painting was finished.
0:53:10 > 0:53:13It could even have had two babies in it, but it didn't.
0:53:13 > 0:53:16That was a long time - not pregnant, pregnant,
0:53:16 > 0:53:20nine months, pregnant again, almost another nine months.
0:53:23 > 0:53:29There is such a contradiction with someone who's done all they can
0:53:29 > 0:53:34to avoid any kind of family life on a day-to-day domestic basis.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37And then, all of a sudden,
0:53:37 > 0:53:45the one thing that they like more than anything is having this huge family,
0:53:45 > 0:53:48and it's a strange tension.
0:53:48 > 0:53:50And, um...
0:53:50 > 0:53:53With a father, when I was younger,
0:53:53 > 0:53:59he was interested in horses and women and painting - none of that is anything to do with me.
0:53:59 > 0:54:04And then all of a sudden, he is interested in families
0:54:04 > 0:54:09and how everyone has grown up and the grandchildren.
0:54:09 > 0:54:14I feel absolutely delighted that that's his focus,
0:54:14 > 0:54:17and that, to me, is just so cosy.
0:54:17 > 0:54:22I don't mean that I would dare to say that one of his paintings was cosy,
0:54:22 > 0:54:29but the idea that what he really likes is children and grandchildren, to me, is good news.
0:54:33 > 0:54:38Whenever he starts painting - doing a self-portrait -
0:54:38 > 0:54:44I'm always really excited about that.
0:54:44 > 0:54:50Almost, I think, if I could have any painting, I would want one of his self-portraits.
0:54:50 > 0:54:55For me, they are so meaningful and poignant.
0:54:55 > 0:54:57They mean so much to me.
0:55:01 > 0:55:07And, you know, watching him change through his own paintings
0:55:07 > 0:55:10and how sort of severe he is.
0:55:12 > 0:55:18Some of his critics have said some of his naked portraits
0:55:18 > 0:55:21have a real sense of being stripped bare - of not having any cover.
0:55:21 > 0:55:26Whereas in that picture, he just seems incidentally not have any clothes on.
0:55:26 > 0:55:30There's not any kind of rawness about it or exposure.
0:55:30 > 0:55:36He hasn't metaphorically exposed himself in the picture, even if he has literally.
0:55:38 > 0:55:42Partly I like them in terms of seeing different stages in his life,
0:55:42 > 0:55:47seeing as we don't have a great deal of a family photographs.
0:55:50 > 0:55:53I don't like looking at it.
0:55:53 > 0:55:59I don't know if it is because it's very final looking,
0:55:59 > 0:56:04but I definitely don't like looking at it.
0:56:04 > 0:56:07There's something very soft and tender about it.
0:56:07 > 0:56:11It's so moving and amazing to think that he looks at himself like that,
0:56:11 > 0:56:16and he is not frightened to look absolutely starkly clear at himself.
0:56:22 > 0:56:28Each time he does one it's a scary feeling of time passing
0:56:28 > 0:56:31and feeling, you know...
0:56:33 > 0:56:36..getting nearer to losing him,
0:56:36 > 0:56:40which is a horrible thing.
0:56:43 > 0:56:48We had this 80th birthday party with all the children and grandchildren.
0:56:48 > 0:56:52It was incredibly moving.
0:56:52 > 0:56:55And that it seemed...
0:56:55 > 0:56:59It seemed like it was a wonderful thing.
0:56:59 > 0:57:05But I think the thing of feeling - if he was feeling sad in that show,
0:57:05 > 0:57:10that you have a beginning and a middle... Well, you have an end.
0:57:10 > 0:57:14Sometimes you can forget that for five minutes.
0:57:14 > 0:57:18Only for about five... four, maybe, and that show was...
0:57:21 > 0:57:28You couldn't have a Shakespearean tragedy unless somebody died at the end,
0:57:28 > 0:57:31and that's what happens.
0:57:31 > 0:57:36That's what was so spectacular about that show -
0:57:36 > 0:57:39that there was no turning away from anything.
0:57:39 > 0:57:41That's...
0:57:41 > 0:57:43That it's...
0:57:43 > 0:57:45You have to have that sadness.
0:57:45 > 0:57:49I've never been that big on happy endings anyway,
0:57:49 > 0:57:56but because you can only have a happy precursor to the ending,
0:57:56 > 0:58:00but then the ending is never... It can't really be happy.
0:58:39 > 0:58:43Since I've been sitting, I've learnt a lot more about painting and art,
0:58:43 > 0:58:50so there are four pictures I would particularly like to have of Lucian's.
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