Mapplethorpe: Look at the Pictures

0:00:02 > 0:00:04This programme contains strong language and explicit sexual scenes.

0:00:04 > 0:00:07Robert Mapplethorpe was the ultimate bad boy of the camera.

0:00:07 > 0:00:10The only thing more shocking than his photographs was his life.

0:00:11 > 0:00:17He gained notoriety in the 1970s with images of New York's underground gay scene,

0:00:17 > 0:00:22which he glorified, uncensored, until his death from Aids in 1989,

0:00:22 > 0:00:24at the age of 42.

0:00:24 > 0:00:28A master of form and light, no subject was off limits.

0:00:28 > 0:00:33Fetishes and sadomasochism were captured with the same meticulous

0:00:33 > 0:00:36detail as eroticised flowers.

0:00:36 > 0:00:41His work convinced art dealers that photography could be as collectable

0:00:41 > 0:00:43as painting and sculpture.

0:00:43 > 0:00:47But exhibitions of his sexually explicit work inevitably raise questions.

0:00:49 > 0:00:50In 1990,

0:00:50 > 0:00:56a Cincinnati art centre was taken to court for displaying work considered pornographic.

0:00:56 > 0:01:01It's this controversy which opens the film you're about to see.

0:01:01 > 0:01:05Directors Randy Barbato and Fenton Bailey were given unlimited access

0:01:05 > 0:01:09to Mapplethorpe's archives and work, and the result is,

0:01:09 > 0:01:11Look At The Pictures.

0:01:11 > 0:01:16An unflinching, uncompromising profile of one of the most provocative

0:01:16 > 0:01:18artists of the 20th century.

0:01:29 > 0:01:31Robert Mapplethorpe,

0:01:31 > 0:01:36a known homosexual who died of Aids and who spent the last years of

0:01:36 > 0:01:38his life promoting homosexuality.

0:01:38 > 0:01:41Now, if any Senator doesn't know what I'm talking about

0:01:41 > 0:01:46in terms of the art that I have protested, well, look at the pictures.

0:01:47 > 0:01:51Now, any Senator who thinks that I'm attacking aesthetic art...

0:01:52 > 0:01:55..I don't know whether television cameras can see it or not,

0:01:55 > 0:01:57I'm going to be fast enough with it that they can't.

0:01:57 > 0:02:03But I want Senators to come over here if they have any doubt and look at the pictures.

0:02:03 > 0:02:06In Cincinnati, police close down the Mapplethorpe exhibit.

0:02:06 > 0:02:09We are sending the Mapplethorpe exhibit to trial.

0:02:09 > 0:02:11Come over here. Look at the pictures.

0:02:11 > 0:02:14One of two artists whose works led to a dispute.

0:02:14 > 0:02:16Look at the pictures. Look at the pictures.

0:02:16 > 0:02:18Look at the pictures.

0:02:18 > 0:02:20It was Mapplethorpe.

0:02:20 > 0:02:22The art gallery and its director are charged with obscenity

0:02:22 > 0:02:25for exhibiting photographs by the late Robert Mapplethorpe.

0:02:25 > 0:02:29- Look at the pictures.- Mapplethorpe's work is highly controversial.

0:02:29 > 0:02:33- Can I show it to you?- I don't want to look at it.- I don't even acknowledge that it's art.

0:02:35 > 0:02:39I don't even acknowledge that the fellow who did it was an artist.

0:02:39 > 0:02:40I think he was a jerk!

0:02:59 > 0:03:04This is one of five vaults in which Mapplethorpe's archive resides.

0:03:04 > 0:03:09Audiovisual material is in here along with more ephemeral paperwork

0:03:09 > 0:03:11from his studio and personal correspondence.

0:03:17 > 0:03:19The photographs are in a cooler

0:03:19 > 0:03:23environment and Polaroids are in an even colder environment.

0:03:32 > 0:03:36One of our big challenges is to really make a case for why we're doing two

0:03:36 > 0:03:39concurrent exhibitions about one artist.

0:03:39 > 0:03:41This is two sides of one coin.

0:03:41 > 0:03:45- Yeah.- There is a duality that runs through Mapplethorpe's work and life,

0:03:45 > 0:03:50and we hope to be able to divide the material up in a way that would

0:03:50 > 0:03:52highlight that duality.

0:03:57 > 0:03:59- This is a box of self-portraits. - Great.

0:04:00 > 0:04:03- Oh!- Oh!- Yeah, biker jacket from the back.

0:04:03 > 0:04:05Yeah.

0:04:05 > 0:04:09I really like this white piping and how it leads up to this other shape.

0:04:12 > 0:04:14That's one of the great ones.

0:04:14 > 0:04:15When you say Mapplethorpe,

0:04:15 > 0:04:19people immediately think of the controversies that happened during

0:04:19 > 0:04:22the '90s. Guerrilla rebel.

0:04:22 > 0:04:27- Yeah.- Mapplethorpe was being demonised by Conservative politicians,

0:04:27 > 0:04:30so one of our goals was to humanise Mapplethorpe,

0:04:30 > 0:04:34to bring him back into people's consciousness as a human being.

0:04:36 > 0:04:37It's quite convincing.

0:04:41 > 0:04:46- Ah!- Ah! Mapplethorpe and bullwhip.

0:04:46 > 0:04:48I remember it being a slightly higher contrast.

0:04:48 > 0:04:50- It's a different paper.- Right.

0:04:50 > 0:04:53- This is a lot warmer and softer. - Mm-hm.

0:04:53 > 0:04:55The way his hand is,

0:04:55 > 0:04:57it's so great, it almost looks like he's releasing the shutter.

0:04:57 > 0:04:59Yes, because that...

0:05:00 > 0:05:03..cord comes just to the edge of the frame.

0:05:03 > 0:05:07- The cord kind of connects the viewer with Mapplethorpe.- Yeah.

0:05:07 > 0:05:10- Because it's coming out of the picture.- As well as the eye contact,

0:05:10 > 0:05:12- obviously.- Right.- It's very defiant.

0:05:12 > 0:05:13He's not hiding his face.

0:05:13 > 0:05:15He's not hiding his identity.

0:05:15 > 0:05:16He's not hiding what he's doing.

0:06:01 > 0:06:04Robert was just my younger brother.

0:06:04 > 0:06:09I'm the oldest. That's myself, my brother, Richard, Robert, Edward,

0:06:09 > 0:06:11Sue and James.

0:06:11 > 0:06:16That's the six of us. When we were young, we did a lot of colouring.

0:06:16 > 0:06:18Robert always had weird things.

0:06:18 > 0:06:21You know, he'd have a green face, or...

0:06:22 > 0:06:24..just not the norm.

0:06:24 > 0:06:25Or purple hair or something.

0:06:25 > 0:06:27And I'd say, what are you doing that for?

0:06:27 > 0:06:29That's not the way it's supposed to be.

0:06:29 > 0:06:32As far as, like, photographs, he never took photographs.

0:06:32 > 0:06:35My dad took a lot of photographs.

0:06:35 > 0:06:37But Robert, he had no interest in that at all.

0:06:40 > 0:06:43My wife and I and the children moved here in 1949.

0:06:45 > 0:06:47I was always interested in photography,

0:06:47 > 0:06:50but none of my kids were until Eddie.

0:06:50 > 0:06:52I had all the equipment downstairs -

0:06:52 > 0:06:58a darkroom, enlarger and printer and drier and everything else.

0:06:58 > 0:07:00This is the block we lived on.

0:07:00 > 0:07:01See, all the houses were the same?

0:07:06 > 0:07:08This was during the snow.

0:07:08 > 0:07:11This is Robert here with two of his friends.

0:07:11 > 0:07:13You know, we had to be home a certain time for dinner, and

0:07:13 > 0:07:17you had to sit at the table until you've finished your dinner.

0:07:17 > 0:07:20Robert was a regular kid.

0:07:20 > 0:07:23One thing was his endurance on a pogo stick.

0:07:23 > 0:07:25He was having competitions with people.

0:07:25 > 0:07:28He would go all the way around the block on a pogo stick.

0:07:28 > 0:07:33Robert was the pogo stick champ of 259th Street of the neighbourhood.

0:07:33 > 0:07:35He just could go on forever.

0:07:35 > 0:07:37And he was so proud of that!

0:07:40 > 0:07:43You know, there's something about black and white pictures that are so

0:07:43 > 0:07:44much better because they last.

0:07:45 > 0:07:49I took this of Robert in front of our house, right?

0:07:49 > 0:07:55The rest of them, all these, he took of me,

0:07:55 > 0:07:58and I believe it's probably the first pictures he took.

0:08:03 > 0:08:06There was this television programme in the early '50s.

0:08:06 > 0:08:09Someone would give them something to taste with their blindfolds on.

0:08:09 > 0:08:11You would have to guess what it is.

0:08:11 > 0:08:12That's how we play the game -

0:08:12 > 0:08:15identifying items by means of our five senses.

0:08:15 > 0:08:19Well, we Mapplethorpe kids made our own Sense And Nonsense game.

0:08:23 > 0:08:25Robert, the little devil that he was,

0:08:25 > 0:08:30went to one of the many ashtrays around the house, which were always full,

0:08:30 > 0:08:34and put ashes in my brother's mouth.

0:08:34 > 0:08:37And they were fuming.

0:08:37 > 0:08:40That's the kind of stuff he did, that kind of needling stuff.

0:08:40 > 0:08:42So he was a devilish guy.

0:08:42 > 0:08:43SHE CHUCKLES

0:08:47 > 0:08:49We never missed Mass on Sunday.

0:08:49 > 0:08:52We always went to church, and I still do.

0:09:10 > 0:09:15I first met Robert Mapplethorpe when I was assigned to Our Lady Of The Snows Parish in Floral Park.

0:09:16 > 0:09:18They were active in the parish, you know,

0:09:18 > 0:09:22so I got to know the whole family.

0:09:22 > 0:09:24So Robert just kind of took to me,

0:09:24 > 0:09:30and I, you know, took to him, and he used to paint me pictures.

0:09:30 > 0:09:36He drew me a couple of paintings of the Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary.

0:09:36 > 0:09:41And I thought to myself, he's been too influenced by Picasso.

0:09:43 > 0:09:46But anyway, I have to say that, first,

0:09:46 > 0:09:52he was the only person I knew who could sit on a couch and chew his toenails.

0:09:53 > 0:09:57The other thing was you'd look at Robert, and I think the first thing

0:09:57 > 0:09:59you'd notice is his eyes.

0:09:59 > 0:10:01They were huge.

0:10:01 > 0:10:06And as if he was always looking, always penetrating, always...

0:10:07 > 0:10:08..trying to get through.

0:10:09 > 0:10:11I come from this, you know...

0:10:13 > 0:10:15..suburban America.

0:10:15 > 0:10:17It was a very safe environment...

0:10:18 > 0:10:21..and it was a good place to come from, in that...

0:10:22 > 0:10:23..it was a good place to leave.

0:10:27 > 0:10:29He never quite really fit in...

0:10:31 > 0:10:34..with all these other teenage boys, you know.

0:10:35 > 0:10:37There was something very fragile about Robert.

0:10:51 > 0:10:52Robert was Mum's favourite.

0:10:52 > 0:10:53I don't know why, though.

0:10:53 > 0:10:57I can't put my finger on specific things, but I would say, oh,

0:10:57 > 0:10:58Robert was her favourite.

0:11:01 > 0:11:05- ROBERT:- Sometimes, that just wasn't enough for me.

0:11:05 > 0:11:07Robert was smart. Everything came easy to him.

0:11:07 > 0:11:12I worked like a dog for my marks, but he graduated at 16.

0:11:12 > 0:11:17- ROBERT:- As soon as I could, I started art school training, and I moved to Brooklyn.

0:11:18 > 0:11:21My dad was basically against it.

0:11:21 > 0:11:22My father thought...

0:11:23 > 0:11:27..you can do it as a hobby, but what are you ever going to do with art?

0:11:32 > 0:11:36Did know that photography and homosexuality share something in common?

0:11:36 > 0:11:39Growing respect for photography in the art world

0:11:39 > 0:11:41occurred simultaneously

0:11:41 > 0:11:43with the growing visibility of the gay rights movement.

0:11:43 > 0:11:47Each suffered a gauntlet of prejudice during their coming-of-age.

0:11:47 > 0:11:48Just as Mapplethorpe was starting out,

0:11:48 > 0:11:54to be openly gay was still very much a cultural taboo, and photography was

0:11:54 > 0:11:57considered not much more than a utilitarian medium

0:11:57 > 0:12:00and applied art, a bastard of the arts.

0:12:04 > 0:12:06He was very young when he started Pratt.

0:12:06 > 0:12:11He just looked like a little boy and people made fun of him.

0:12:11 > 0:12:14That time, his name was Bob Mapplethorpe.

0:12:14 > 0:12:16And to further diminish him...

0:12:17 > 0:12:21..they called him Maypo because that was a children's cereal back

0:12:21 > 0:12:22in those days.

0:12:22 > 0:12:25# I want my Maypo I want my Maypo... #

0:12:25 > 0:12:26He was not macho.

0:12:26 > 0:12:28# I want my Maypo! #

0:12:28 > 0:12:29It makes you strong.

0:12:41 > 0:12:45He told me he would take his father's negatives to class and present them

0:12:45 > 0:12:47as his own work.

0:12:47 > 0:12:48He was a fuck-up!

0:12:53 > 0:12:56So I was interested in his experience at Pratt

0:12:56 > 0:12:59and how he found himself as an artist there.

0:12:59 > 0:13:01Is that a self-portrait?

0:13:01 > 0:13:06Yes. This one's actually ink so I'm imagining he rolled an oil-based ink

0:13:06 > 0:13:07- onto his face.- Yeah.

0:13:07 > 0:13:09It's kind of hard to comprehend.

0:13:09 > 0:13:11The psychedelia of it, too.

0:13:11 > 0:13:13He was really into acid at the time.

0:13:15 > 0:13:18We both had a similar background.

0:13:18 > 0:13:20Right off the bat, I think we kind of hit it off.

0:13:20 > 0:13:22He started taking drugs -

0:13:22 > 0:13:25smoked marijuana, LSD.

0:13:25 > 0:13:28We both were living on candy bars and cigarettes, basically.

0:13:28 > 0:13:32And he was getting really skinny and we were both really pale-looking.

0:13:32 > 0:13:37But we smoked, and so he put LSD in the cigarette.

0:13:37 > 0:13:40I completely lost my memory, and so...

0:13:42 > 0:13:43..I, er...

0:13:49 > 0:13:52I don't know, I'm losing track. I'm kind of like having a...

0:13:53 > 0:13:56I'm going back there too much, I guess.

0:13:56 > 0:13:59ROBERT: When I was in art school, I'd stay up all night stoned,

0:13:59 > 0:14:01trying to think. What hasn't been done?

0:14:01 > 0:14:04I was obsessed with trying to come up with a new

0:14:04 > 0:14:07approach to art, to be unique somehow.

0:14:07 > 0:14:12Bob and I realised, you have to get a little name recognition, and sometimes

0:14:12 > 0:14:14the weird thing can work well for you.

0:14:14 > 0:14:19So, somewhere along the way there, he had purchased this little monkey.

0:14:19 > 0:14:20He named it Scratch.

0:14:20 > 0:14:23And I did some really nice drawings of Scratch.

0:14:23 > 0:14:26The monkey had some bad habits.

0:14:26 > 0:14:29The monkey masturbated a lot.

0:14:29 > 0:14:32The monkey threw crap at you sometimes.

0:14:32 > 0:14:35And he would walk around with the monkey on his shoulder,

0:14:35 > 0:14:37and he was wearing a black cape.

0:14:37 > 0:14:40Robert and I graduated Pratt in '67,

0:14:40 > 0:14:43the Summer of Love, and blah, blah, blah.

0:14:43 > 0:14:48And here's Robert standing all by himself, in a corner,

0:14:48 > 0:14:50you know, hiding his face.

0:14:50 > 0:14:52He's extremely mysterious.

0:14:52 > 0:14:54And that's who he was.

0:14:54 > 0:14:58The final project for both of us was to make a musical instrument out

0:14:58 > 0:15:01of a bone. Then, I remember, I got a call from Bob.

0:15:01 > 0:15:05And he was all kind of weepy, and he said, "I don't know what to do,

0:15:05 > 0:15:09"Scratch has died." It was maybe two o'clock in the morning,

0:15:09 > 0:15:12he came in and he was really shook.

0:15:12 > 0:15:16He said, "I boiled Scratch's head,

0:15:16 > 0:15:20"and I've got my bone, but, you know, it was terrible.

0:15:20 > 0:15:23"It smelled terrible, I hated doing it, I had to cut his head off."

0:15:23 > 0:15:25So he aced the project.

0:15:25 > 0:15:26Yeah.

0:15:28 > 0:15:31ROBERT: There was a lot of negativity, even at Pratt, toward what I did.

0:15:31 > 0:15:34People would say, oh, that isn't art,

0:15:34 > 0:15:37that isn't the way you make art, and I just did it the way I wanted to do it.

0:15:37 > 0:15:41Robert set himself apart from his classmates.

0:15:41 > 0:15:44It's a beast, and this is his backside.

0:15:44 > 0:15:48It's a pose that he uses himself later on in self-portraits.

0:15:48 > 0:15:52If you compare it to Bullwhip, that backward pose,

0:15:52 > 0:15:54he already has it in his mind.

0:15:54 > 0:15:58The last time I saw Bob, he had no clothes on, he was afraid,

0:15:58 > 0:16:01he had all the furniture stacked up against the door and he was really

0:16:01 > 0:16:03beside himself, and he said...

0:16:05 > 0:16:09.."I'm afraid, I'm afraid, someone's coming, someone's coming. Could you give me 20?"

0:16:19 > 0:16:23I met Robert accidentally, and he was just a boy.

0:16:23 > 0:16:25I mean, we were both 20,

0:16:25 > 0:16:29he was a kid going to Pratt, and we fell in love,

0:16:29 > 0:16:30and he was my boyfriend.

0:16:32 > 0:16:35- ROBERT:- It was the first time I had ever been in love with anybody.

0:16:35 > 0:16:38The fact that it was somebody as unique as Patti...

0:16:38 > 0:16:42I mean, she was a magical kind of person,

0:16:42 > 0:16:44so, like, you know... And she was...

0:16:45 > 0:16:47..supportive of what I was doing,

0:16:47 > 0:16:52of my magic, and I was supportive of her magic. Neither one of us were

0:16:52 > 0:16:56ever jealous, so it was, like, a storybook relationship.

0:17:00 > 0:17:07He helped me to build confidence in my work and to think of myself as artist,

0:17:07 > 0:17:09to have a concept of oneself as an artist.

0:17:09 > 0:17:11That was always really important to Robert,

0:17:11 > 0:17:16not as an apprentice, not as a student, but as an artist.

0:17:19 > 0:17:23I loved photographing my friends, and Robert called me and said,

0:17:23 > 0:17:26"Can you do some naked pictures of Patti and me?

0:17:26 > 0:17:28"I want to make a little film called Garden Of Earthly Delights."

0:17:30 > 0:17:34So then we set up lights on the back of a chair and I just took the pictures

0:17:34 > 0:17:35that he asked for.

0:17:38 > 0:17:44Robert and Patti were so beautiful in such an interesting way,

0:17:44 > 0:17:46in an unconventional way, I think.

0:17:46 > 0:17:52He exuded this kind of androgynous sexuality, and so did Patti.

0:17:52 > 0:17:57Patti was drawing all the time and Robert was drawing all the time and

0:17:57 > 0:17:58making things.

0:17:58 > 0:18:02It was messy, there was stuff hanging around, tacked up on the walls,

0:18:02 > 0:18:04it looked like a scene from a Godard movie.

0:18:10 > 0:18:15We sat for hours and hours, night after night, drawing and,

0:18:15 > 0:18:18you know, drawing from each other as well as drawing.

0:18:18 > 0:18:21I'm a thief. And I dig it!

0:18:23 > 0:18:28A good thief never hesitates, a good thief steals clean.

0:18:28 > 0:18:32And now I'm stealing now. And now I'm stealing now.

0:18:32 > 0:18:34And now I'm stealing now.

0:18:37 > 0:18:41The Chelsea has been home for more than a century to a colony of artists

0:18:41 > 0:18:46who have also celebrated it in books, poems, plays, dance and painting.

0:18:49 > 0:18:50ROBERT: I kept on saying to Patti...

0:19:08 > 0:19:10I loved them.

0:19:10 > 0:19:11We were like a family.

0:19:12 > 0:19:16He kept telling me I was like his sister.

0:19:16 > 0:19:20Patti was working like crazy to let us live.

0:19:20 > 0:19:22She was very generous.

0:19:22 > 0:19:25And she wasn't jealous of me at all, which is wonderful.

0:19:30 > 0:19:32She trusted me with Robert, totally.

0:19:33 > 0:19:38I never was in love with him or had any sexual feelings for him,

0:19:38 > 0:19:40but we were very close.

0:19:43 > 0:19:48We would sit in my totally white empty room at the Chelsea,

0:19:48 > 0:19:53which supposedly had had Oscar Wilde stay in it and had had Jackson Pollock

0:19:53 > 0:19:57stay in it, and I had Warhol's clouds floating,

0:19:57 > 0:20:01the helium clouds. And that's all I had in the room, and a mattress.

0:20:01 > 0:20:05We lived on the floor and it was clean enough to eat off of, and that's

0:20:05 > 0:20:07exactly what we did.

0:20:07 > 0:20:12It was a 25-hour art show all the time or movie set or whatever you would

0:20:12 > 0:20:13want to call the life.

0:20:13 > 0:20:15It was just a life being recorded.

0:20:16 > 0:20:21In a stark sun-drenched studio lives film-maker Sandra Daly.

0:20:21 > 0:20:22I called him up, I said,

0:20:22 > 0:20:26"Could you bring over some of the things and put them up on the walls

0:20:26 > 0:20:29"cos there's nothing here, it's all white?"

0:20:29 > 0:20:33And he came over with the stuff, and I looked and I thought, God,

0:20:33 > 0:20:36leather pants with a cock sticking out! I thought, why not?

0:20:36 > 0:20:38It looked fabulous.

0:20:38 > 0:20:40ROBERT: I was working with

0:20:40 > 0:20:43articles of clothing that were kind of like fetish sculpture.

0:20:43 > 0:20:47If I had a jacket that I wore all the time, I'd put it in a piece.

0:20:47 > 0:20:50So it was like assemblage.

0:20:50 > 0:20:53What's made you live in the Chelsea for the past seven years?

0:20:55 > 0:20:59Um, my friends, I guess, live here, and my teachers.

0:21:00 > 0:21:04- It's my home.- Robert didn't say much.

0:21:04 > 0:21:05SHE LAUGHS

0:21:05 > 0:21:07He didn't talk at all, did he, in that clip?

0:21:13 > 0:21:16Robert could sit in silence a lot more comfortably than I could.

0:21:19 > 0:21:23I'm Edward Mapplethorpe, Robert Mapplethorpe's brother.

0:21:27 > 0:21:30I was three years of age when he left the house.

0:21:30 > 0:21:35I remember waiting anxiously on my stoop and knowing Robert and Patti

0:21:35 > 0:21:37were coming, and I'd be like, wow!

0:21:37 > 0:21:40Wow, look at these guys! I mean...

0:21:40 > 0:21:43They didn't look like anybody else, they didn't talk like anybody else.

0:21:43 > 0:21:46I would say creature. They were like creatures.

0:21:46 > 0:21:51Just the way he dressed, the way he carried himself, the way his hair was, the way, er...

0:21:52 > 0:21:53It was just...

0:21:55 > 0:21:57It encompassed him.

0:21:58 > 0:22:00The art. The artist encompassed him.

0:22:02 > 0:22:05There was no separation.

0:22:45 > 0:22:46Wow!

0:22:48 > 0:22:49I see them as exquisite.

0:22:51 > 0:22:55Most porn looks amateurish and...

0:22:55 > 0:22:57lower class.

0:22:59 > 0:23:03Just make it look like...

0:23:03 > 0:23:05I think I said a Louis Quinze chair,

0:23:05 > 0:23:09so that it just takes your breath away.

0:23:09 > 0:23:12It doesn't matter what the subject matter is.

0:23:14 > 0:23:16It's like a love story.

0:23:17 > 0:23:18To porn, maybe.

0:23:21 > 0:23:25ROBERT: There was a feeling I could get through looking at pornographic imagery,

0:23:25 > 0:23:28and I thought, if I could somehow retain that feeling,

0:23:28 > 0:23:31maybe it was the forbidden, because I was young, you know,

0:23:31 > 0:23:34that if I could that across and make an art statement...

0:23:36 > 0:23:38..do it in a way that just kind of like

0:23:38 > 0:23:41reached a certain kind of perfection, that I would be doing something...

0:23:42 > 0:23:45..that was uniquely my own.

0:23:45 > 0:23:47Oh, and that one even includes a camera.

0:23:47 > 0:23:52He highlighted it, and this was before he was even making photographs.

0:23:52 > 0:23:53But this is when he started thinking,

0:23:53 > 0:23:57it would be cheaper for me to take photographs than buy all this porn!

0:23:59 > 0:24:00Same great film.

0:24:01 > 0:24:04ROBERT: I wanted raw material that originated with myself.

0:24:04 > 0:24:09I felt that I was stealing them from other people and so that's how

0:24:09 > 0:24:11I started with the Polaroids.

0:24:11 > 0:24:13It was not because I wanted to be a photographer.

0:24:15 > 0:24:19We had a Polaroid camera and Polaroid film was really expensive,

0:24:19 > 0:24:25so my focus was always that Robert got what he needed first.

0:24:25 > 0:24:27And we had so little money for film,

0:24:27 > 0:24:30we concentrated on getting him the film.

0:24:31 > 0:24:34ROBERT: It was all there from the start and,

0:24:34 > 0:24:36when I first started taking Polaroids,

0:24:36 > 0:24:38I was working with photographs that dealt with

0:24:38 > 0:24:43sexuality - portraits, flowers and still lives,

0:24:43 > 0:24:46because I used the still lives to experiment with lighting.

0:24:46 > 0:24:50These are the first times that Robert took emulsion.

0:24:50 > 0:24:55He washed it off of the Polaroid till it floated above the base

0:24:55 > 0:24:57and stretched them out.

0:24:57 > 0:24:59That's me, ugly as ever.

0:24:59 > 0:25:00Here's Patti.

0:25:04 > 0:25:06And that's David Croland.

0:25:08 > 0:25:11I'm really not a model any more, I'm just, you know,

0:25:11 > 0:25:12an object.

0:25:13 > 0:25:16If you want an explanation of why I'm wearing this robe,

0:25:16 > 0:25:19it's for Robert, and Robert liked robes.

0:25:19 > 0:25:21And he liked black silk.

0:25:22 > 0:25:24And I thought twice about it, and then I thought,

0:25:24 > 0:25:26you're not going to think three times.

0:25:27 > 0:25:32Patti is the first girl he photographed for Polaroid, and I was the first boy.

0:25:33 > 0:25:34HE POPS LIPS

0:25:34 > 0:25:37I met Robert in 1970...

0:25:37 > 0:25:39on Memorial Day...

0:25:39 > 0:25:40on a steamy hot day.

0:25:42 > 0:25:46As soon as he got his camera, the film was loaded and my clothes were off,

0:25:46 > 0:25:48starting with...

0:25:48 > 0:25:53a robe, and then the robe was like here, etc, etc.

0:25:53 > 0:25:56He photographed me a lot and, in those days,

0:25:56 > 0:25:58I just thought, who cares, Polaroid film?

0:25:58 > 0:26:01I was used to being photographed by the big format, you know, by...

0:26:02 > 0:26:04Should we drop some names? Someone said, "Stop dropping names."

0:26:04 > 0:26:07I said, "I can't help it if everyone I know is fantastic."

0:26:07 > 0:26:10I thought these Polaroids were like, what the hell are these?

0:26:10 > 0:26:13I saw very quickly that he wasn't just stacking up

0:26:13 > 0:26:16a bunch of Polaroids, he was making stuff out of them.

0:26:16 > 0:26:21He was incorporating them into a new type of art,

0:26:21 > 0:26:24which no-one was doing. No-one.

0:26:27 > 0:26:32And then, someone called Patti to say they were boyfriends,

0:26:32 > 0:26:35so that's...we were busted.

0:26:37 > 0:26:39Patti knew that I was helping Robert,

0:26:39 > 0:26:42so there was no animosity, not at all.

0:26:42 > 0:26:44At least, I don't think so.

0:26:46 > 0:26:49When you're young, you don't have much of a conscience.

0:26:49 > 0:26:52I mean, when you're young, I don't even know if you think.

0:26:53 > 0:26:57I don't even think it's a good idea to think - to this day.

0:26:57 > 0:26:59It's just better to do stuff.

0:27:01 > 0:27:05I had this small amount of money. I could make a movie.

0:27:05 > 0:27:09I said, Robert, you can pick out anything you want to do.

0:27:09 > 0:27:12MAPPLETHORPE: I just thought it would be interesting to have a ring

0:27:12 > 0:27:15through your tit, cos I'd maybe seen it in a movie or something,

0:27:15 > 0:27:19but it wasn't something anybody had at that moment

0:27:19 > 0:27:23and all of a sudden, there was a whole situation where

0:27:23 > 0:27:25I was to get my nipple pierced.

0:27:26 > 0:27:29I had done a number of films for Andy Warhol.

0:27:29 > 0:27:33So I was... As a model, I was used to having the camera trained on me.

0:27:33 > 0:27:36Yes.

0:27:36 > 0:27:39But I had no idea where that film was going.

0:27:39 > 0:27:42Where that film went was to the Museum of Modern Art,

0:27:42 > 0:27:46and it showed there at a big screening.

0:27:46 > 0:27:49MoMo was very crowded and I was writing film reviews then

0:27:49 > 0:27:51for the Village Voice and I remember

0:27:51 > 0:27:56Robert was standing against the wall and he had this sort of angelic

0:27:56 > 0:28:00kind of hair and I guess I had a crush on him and whatever.

0:28:00 > 0:28:04Right away, in my mind, I saw him as an angel and a devil.

0:28:06 > 0:28:09Then Patti has this brilliant monologue

0:28:09 > 0:28:12that she did as the soundtrack.

0:28:13 > 0:28:17I read this book, Robert had this book in his drawer,

0:28:17 > 0:28:20called Leather Boys and like, I picked it up the other night,

0:28:20 > 0:28:23cos he went out and once he got those leather pants,

0:28:23 > 0:28:25he'd be down on Christopher Street.

0:28:26 > 0:28:28Like, he wasn't like my boyfriend or nothing.

0:28:28 > 0:28:32I guess the only reason I don't like it, is cos they've got secrets.

0:28:34 > 0:28:37"In sharp counterpoint to the delicacy of the visuals,

0:28:37 > 0:28:41"is the harsh and hilarious soundtrack by Patti Smith, poet.

0:28:41 > 0:28:44"Robert's ex-girlfriend...

0:28:44 > 0:28:47"..who, it seems, dislikes homosexuals because,

0:28:47 > 0:28:49"A, she feels left out

0:28:49 > 0:28:52"and, B, they use their assholes."

0:28:54 > 0:28:58He called me after the review came out and said that he really liked it

0:28:58 > 0:29:01and could we, like, meet for a cup of coffee or something?

0:29:10 > 0:29:13Robert and I would, you know, meet up at like four in the afternoon

0:29:13 > 0:29:16and go into some deserted restaurant and sit, you know,

0:29:16 > 0:29:18just order coffee and...

0:29:18 > 0:29:21He only had a Polaroid then, he didn't even have a camera.

0:29:22 > 0:29:25But he was already, you know, planning on his first exhibition

0:29:25 > 0:29:29and who he was going to invite and who he hoped would come.

0:29:29 > 0:29:33This is Robert Mapplethorpe's announcement for his first solo exhibition.

0:29:33 > 0:29:37The envelope is embossed by Tiffany & Co.

0:29:38 > 0:29:41It was a show of Polaroids.

0:29:41 > 0:29:45He encased his announcement in the "don't touch here"

0:29:45 > 0:29:48safety cover from the Polaroid film pack.

0:29:48 > 0:29:51Mapplethorpe says in several interviews,

0:29:51 > 0:29:54an exhibition doesn't begin when you go to the opening,

0:29:54 > 0:29:56it begins when you get the invitation.

0:29:57 > 0:29:59It is a small dot sticker,

0:29:59 > 0:30:02that's really not opaque.

0:30:02 > 0:30:04THEY LAUGH

0:30:05 > 0:30:09What do you want the viewer to feel when they open that invitation?

0:30:09 > 0:30:12MAPPLETHORPE: I want them to remember, that's all, you know.

0:30:12 > 0:30:14You're thinking of what?

0:30:14 > 0:30:17Standing out from this huge morass of...

0:30:17 > 0:30:20Being more... Why can't it be in terms of one's whole lifestyle?

0:30:20 > 0:30:22You know what I'm saying?

0:30:22 > 0:30:25The whole point of being an artist

0:30:25 > 0:30:28or making a statement is to learn about yourself.

0:30:28 > 0:30:31I think that's the most important part.

0:30:31 > 0:30:34The photographs, I think, are less important

0:30:34 > 0:30:37than the life that one is leading.

0:30:48 > 0:30:51I would just run around and

0:30:51 > 0:30:52give people their food.

0:30:53 > 0:30:58It really was a comprehensive scene of downtown artists,

0:30:58 > 0:31:01not a closed world, but it was,

0:31:01 > 0:31:03you know, almost like a clubhouse, in a way.

0:31:08 > 0:31:12I probably saw Robert almost every night of my life.

0:31:12 > 0:31:16You know, most people that I knew lived in such horrible places

0:31:16 > 0:31:20that you really only knew where they lived if you had sex with them.

0:31:20 > 0:31:23Lots of times in Max's, he would come and sit with me.

0:31:23 > 0:31:25You know, it was probably the time I enjoyed Robert the most,

0:31:25 > 0:31:27because he was an incredibly amusing gossip.

0:31:27 > 0:31:31He was extremely good-looking, in a very particular way. You know?

0:31:31 > 0:31:37No-one that saw Robert did not have a crush on him immediately.

0:31:37 > 0:31:40No-one. Everyone... Dogs liked him.

0:31:40 > 0:31:42He looked kind of like, you know,

0:31:42 > 0:31:46a kind of ruined Cupid, and he was very...

0:31:46 > 0:31:48reliant on his charm.

0:31:48 > 0:31:51You know. In other words, he made great use of it.

0:31:51 > 0:31:54By which I mean productive to Robert.

0:31:54 > 0:31:58Robert was not a hustler. Robert didn't have to hustle.

0:31:58 > 0:32:00People hustled Robert.

0:32:00 > 0:32:03Mainly, out of his pants, if they could.

0:32:03 > 0:32:05Me too, by the way.

0:32:05 > 0:32:10Robert didn't think anything was wrong with his ambition.

0:32:10 > 0:32:11He didn't think of it as selling out.

0:32:11 > 0:32:13He didn't think...

0:32:13 > 0:32:17He just, you know, he pursued it the way that people now do.

0:32:17 > 0:32:18Was Robert ambitious?

0:32:21 > 0:32:24There is no word for it.

0:32:25 > 0:32:26For either of them.

0:32:28 > 0:32:30That is an understatement.

0:32:31 > 0:32:33For both of them.

0:32:37 > 0:32:38Yeah.

0:32:40 > 0:32:43Unbelievably.

0:32:44 > 0:32:47I went away for a summer and when I got back,

0:32:47 > 0:32:49Robert was suddenly into S&M.

0:32:50 > 0:32:54One day, I showed up at his place and he was wearing leather pants

0:32:54 > 0:32:57and it looked like a radio attached to his crotch.

0:32:57 > 0:32:58I said, "What the hell is that?"

0:32:58 > 0:33:01He said, "It's a codpiece, isn't it great?"

0:33:01 > 0:33:03I said, "This is like the beginning of the end,

0:33:03 > 0:33:04"if you keep dressing like this!"

0:33:04 > 0:33:09He started to trick me out in leather jackets and handcuffs.

0:33:10 > 0:33:14They started to get, not me, at all,

0:33:14 > 0:33:16and more him,

0:33:16 > 0:33:18and he wanted me to go, always to go further

0:33:18 > 0:33:21and I thought, "That's not going to happen.

0:33:21 > 0:33:23"I'm a model."

0:33:24 > 0:33:28Sam Wagstaff. I only knew that he was eccentric, handsome...

0:33:28 > 0:33:34And then - when he took me to his loft later that day - rich.

0:33:34 > 0:33:37But right before we went to his loft on Bond Street,

0:33:37 > 0:33:41he spied a little tiny picture of Robert taken in a photo booth,

0:33:41 > 0:33:43with that little sailor cap on.

0:33:43 > 0:33:47He looked like a Jean Genet drawing and he said, "Who is this?"

0:33:47 > 0:33:50I said, "That's my soon-to-be ex-boyfriend."

0:33:50 > 0:33:54So I called Robert up and I said, "Listen, your ship's come in,

0:33:54 > 0:33:56"it's in my harbour, you're going to jump on this boat.

0:33:56 > 0:33:59"You're going to love him, he's going to love you, I can tell."

0:34:01 > 0:34:06They had a date that week and they fell in love, very quickly.

0:34:06 > 0:34:09Sam was his protector, in every way.

0:34:09 > 0:34:12You know, the way that girls are protected by men.

0:34:12 > 0:34:14It was a beautiful match.

0:34:14 > 0:34:16Beautiful.

0:34:16 > 0:34:18Really beautiful.

0:34:42 > 0:34:45I knew other people who had older, like, guys who supported them

0:34:45 > 0:34:48and stuff like that, but Sam devoted himself.

0:34:48 > 0:34:51The career Robert had, I don't believe would have existed without Sam.

0:35:09 > 0:35:11I met him when he moved

0:35:11 > 0:35:13next to us on Bond Street,

0:35:13 > 0:35:16so he was literally the boy next door,

0:35:16 > 0:35:20and we just instantly became friends.

0:35:22 > 0:35:26It is just this little cobblestone street in New York.

0:35:26 > 0:35:29Robert lived at 24 Bond Street

0:35:29 > 0:35:33and Brice and Helen Marden lived at lived at 26 Bond Street

0:35:33 > 0:35:36and I lived at 42 Bond Street.

0:35:36 > 0:35:40And the '70s in New York was very different than now.

0:35:40 > 0:35:42New York was bankrupt.

0:35:42 > 0:35:45Things were pretty corrupt and violent.

0:35:45 > 0:35:47There was a lot of crime.

0:35:47 > 0:35:50And, you know, Bond and Bowery was in the middle of,

0:35:50 > 0:35:53you know,

0:35:53 > 0:35:57people sleeping in the doorways and lying on the streets,

0:35:57 > 0:36:00but it was the art world.

0:36:02 > 0:36:05When we first moved here, I was hysterical.

0:36:05 > 0:36:08I said, "We have just spent 40,000 bucks on this dump

0:36:08 > 0:36:10"and look at this area, look at this, I mean,

0:36:10 > 0:36:14"it's like miles before you can get to a restaurant, a grocery store,

0:36:14 > 0:36:18"you know, a light at night, the place is dark."

0:36:18 > 0:36:20You had this beautiful free-flowing stream

0:36:20 > 0:36:23and then there would be all the soap suds and garbage.

0:36:23 > 0:36:25- Junkies. - That's the way Bond Street was.

0:36:25 > 0:36:29And now, of course, the last time I tracked it,

0:36:29 > 0:36:33the penthouse in that building I think sold for 19 million.

0:36:35 > 0:36:40I never thought we'd have any money. Did you?

0:36:40 > 0:36:43No, it wasn't the intention.

0:36:44 > 0:36:49I mean, it wasn't as though it was just a band of innocents, you know.

0:36:49 > 0:36:50You came to New York

0:36:50 > 0:36:54because you felt you had to be in New York, you know,

0:36:54 > 0:36:58or else you would have just gone to some place that was nice to live.

0:37:00 > 0:37:04He loved coming over and taking photographs of my bats.

0:37:04 > 0:37:07You know, he wasn't Robert Mapplethorpe in the beginning.

0:37:07 > 0:37:12You know, there was no thought that this was ROBERT MAPPLETHORPE, right?

0:37:12 > 0:37:14- Right, Brice?- Right.- Nothing.

0:37:14 > 0:37:18We were just all doing our work and chatting about it.

0:37:20 > 0:37:23We'd go to these funny little used book stores

0:37:23 > 0:37:27and they'd have, like, cardboard boxes filled with old postcards

0:37:27 > 0:37:30and filled with old photo prints and Robert would go through them

0:37:30 > 0:37:35and he'd find, you know, a Weston or Steichen or something.

0:37:35 > 0:37:38You know, it was like no-one knew what it was and it was, like 5,

0:37:38 > 0:37:42or 10, and he would do that much more once he got together with Sam.

0:37:43 > 0:37:46MAPPLETHORPE: What happens is I started collecting photography,

0:37:46 > 0:37:50so I studied it through holding these pictures in my hand,

0:37:50 > 0:37:53which is probably the best way to study photography.

0:37:53 > 0:37:57Robert and I liked to lie on his bed and look at all the photographs

0:37:57 > 0:37:59Sam bought and then he would tell me how much they were worth

0:37:59 > 0:38:01and we would laugh.

0:38:03 > 0:38:06Never having really looked at photographs as art,

0:38:06 > 0:38:10it really took Robert to bring me to photography.

0:38:12 > 0:38:15That's terrific. What are you up to?

0:38:15 > 0:38:18- Working.- You should see some of Robert's work sometime.

0:38:18 > 0:38:20I'll be getting down after the sale.

0:38:20 > 0:38:23There was something about the quality

0:38:23 > 0:38:26of even the Polaroids

0:38:26 > 0:38:28which startled me.

0:38:28 > 0:38:33Something very knife-sharp about his work.

0:38:33 > 0:38:36I think this is the most intimate thing we have in the archive

0:38:36 > 0:38:38between Sam and Robert.

0:38:38 > 0:38:40Robert doesn't write, so in a way,

0:38:40 > 0:38:44this linen album is his love letter to Sam.

0:38:44 > 0:38:47You can see the dialogue that's going on between them

0:38:47 > 0:38:52- about photography and love and all that sexuality.- Yeah.

0:38:53 > 0:38:56I used to be slightly embarrassed

0:38:56 > 0:39:01by certain photographs that Robert took.

0:39:01 > 0:39:04He helped me get over that.

0:39:17 > 0:39:23Robert has always liked to play on the edge of pornography.

0:39:23 > 0:39:27MAPPLETHORPE: I always was fascinated with the idea of taking

0:39:27 > 0:39:32a loaded subject like sexuality and somehow bringing it to a level

0:39:32 > 0:39:34that it hadn't been to before.

0:39:34 > 0:39:37He's absolutely wedded to truth

0:39:37 > 0:39:39and opens it up in front of his

0:39:39 > 0:39:43camera in an almost surgical way.

0:39:43 > 0:39:46I remember somebody saying, "You know, you really shouldn't

0:39:46 > 0:39:49"do that because it's going to fuck up your career,"

0:39:49 > 0:39:52and I said I thought it was stupid for him to even think that way.

0:39:52 > 0:39:54I was convinced that what I was doing

0:39:54 > 0:39:56was the right thing to be doing.

0:40:06 > 0:40:10I met Robert in the early '70s

0:40:10 > 0:40:14on Fire Island, where his friend, Wagstaff,

0:40:14 > 0:40:19was renting a beautiful house and they invited me to stay.

0:40:22 > 0:40:26The '70s was a sexual time in Fire Island.

0:40:26 > 0:40:29We went for sex,

0:40:29 > 0:40:32for that beautiful availability

0:40:32 > 0:40:35of sexual encounters.

0:40:35 > 0:40:36I mean,

0:40:36 > 0:40:40the drugs were floating around.

0:40:40 > 0:40:43It was heaven.

0:40:43 > 0:40:47Whenever we went out, I was recognised, right?

0:40:47 > 0:40:50And people stopped me, and Robert liked that

0:40:50 > 0:40:53and he was craving for fame

0:40:53 > 0:40:56and he enjoyed to be seen with me,

0:40:56 > 0:41:03but he was sort of feeling he should be the one who should be recognised,

0:41:03 > 0:41:06and so I agreed, as a friend,

0:41:06 > 0:41:08to pose for him.

0:41:08 > 0:41:10Then when the weekend was over,

0:41:10 > 0:41:14Robert went back to New York City

0:41:14 > 0:41:17to work on his career.

0:41:17 > 0:41:19For me, the ambition was to get laid.

0:41:19 > 0:41:23Robert's ambition was to be a great photographer,

0:41:23 > 0:41:24and that's why he is,

0:41:24 > 0:41:29because in order to be a Mapplethorpe, you had to work hard.

0:41:31 > 0:41:34He walked into my office at Drummer -

0:41:34 > 0:41:37a major gay magazine, where I was the editor,

0:41:37 > 0:41:40wearing leather chaps and a leather jacket,

0:41:40 > 0:41:42carrying a black leather portfolio,

0:41:42 > 0:41:43and said

0:41:43 > 0:41:47"Hello, I'm Robert Mapplethorpe, the pornographic photographer."

0:41:47 > 0:41:50Well, everybody that came to my desk

0:41:50 > 0:41:51was a pornographic photographer.

0:41:51 > 0:41:54The problem in the '70s was everybody was having sex -

0:41:54 > 0:41:57photographers weren't shooting, painters weren't painting,

0:41:57 > 0:42:00writers weren't writing, but Robert was functioning.

0:42:00 > 0:42:04We ended up in bed, then we became bicoastal lovers

0:42:04 > 0:42:06for the next three years.

0:42:07 > 0:42:09He knew that he needed to be written about,

0:42:09 > 0:42:11which was one of the reasons he came to Drummer.

0:42:11 > 0:42:14MAPPLETHORPE: Well, I think life is about using people,

0:42:14 > 0:42:17and being used by people, and that's what a relationship is all about.

0:42:17 > 0:42:20I was just one of many writers that he approached.

0:42:20 > 0:42:22I mean, nearly all of his friends were writers.

0:42:22 > 0:42:26He wanted to be a legend, he told me he wanted to be

0:42:26 > 0:42:28a story told in beds at night around the world.

0:42:28 > 0:42:30He had that kind of drive.

0:42:30 > 0:42:34And in a way that's part of what makes geniuses,

0:42:34 > 0:42:38this self-centredness and this ability to use people,

0:42:38 > 0:42:40so I was someone who could help Robert.

0:42:40 > 0:42:44I had that power of being, you know, editor of Interview,

0:42:44 > 0:42:46but I don't think we used him that much,

0:42:46 > 0:42:49because I was aware that Andy didn't like him.

0:42:49 > 0:42:51He always said "Oh, he's so dirty-looking,"

0:42:51 > 0:42:53and, you know, "He's so creepy..."

0:42:53 > 0:42:56Andy didn't like anybody who took Polaroids, he thought

0:42:56 > 0:42:59he sort of was the only person who should be taking Polaroids.

0:42:59 > 0:43:02But once Andy realised that Robert was with Sam Wagstaff,

0:43:02 > 0:43:04he started to like him.

0:43:04 > 0:43:08So, it was OK for me to then use him for Interview,

0:43:08 > 0:43:10and we sent him to Mustique.

0:43:13 > 0:43:15We met Robert, my husband and I,

0:43:15 > 0:43:18on our way to Mustique,

0:43:18 > 0:43:20in a private little plane.

0:43:21 > 0:43:23I hadn't heard of him at all,

0:43:23 > 0:43:26but I was fascinated by his mind and on top of that,

0:43:26 > 0:43:29he was so good looking.

0:43:29 > 0:43:32He said, at one point, "I want to photograph you,"

0:43:32 > 0:43:34and I said, "No way!"

0:43:34 > 0:43:39And he said, "You know what, you might regret it later,

0:43:39 > 0:43:43"because I'm going to be a fantastic great photographer

0:43:43 > 0:43:46"and you're not going to have your photograph taken by me."

0:43:48 > 0:43:50He was a big hit with the aristocracy

0:43:50 > 0:43:54and he loved Mustique and Mustique loved him.

0:44:05 > 0:44:08He was living this double kind of life where he would be uptown

0:44:08 > 0:44:13at a fancy dinner, and then he would go to The Mine Shaft.

0:44:13 > 0:44:15It looks well worn!

0:44:16 > 0:44:18- I imagine it is. - Not just a souvenir.

0:44:18 > 0:44:23Well, that was one of the key places he went to find his models -

0:44:23 > 0:44:25The Mine Shaft.

0:44:29 > 0:44:33What went on in The Mine Shaft, for all those years,

0:44:33 > 0:44:40was two floors of the most outrageous sex

0:44:40 > 0:44:43had this side of Ancient Rome.

0:44:43 > 0:44:46All kinds of S&M sex,

0:44:46 > 0:44:50scatological sex, fetish sex - from the sling, to the stocks,

0:44:50 > 0:44:52to the whipping post.

0:44:52 > 0:44:54People talk of the famous bathtub.

0:44:54 > 0:44:58I mean, there was always somebody in it and a ring of men around it,

0:44:58 > 0:45:01one, two, three layers deep.

0:45:01 > 0:45:03Everybody jerking off, touching each other,

0:45:03 > 0:45:06moving just like a scrum around that bathtub

0:45:06 > 0:45:09and then the ones in the first line would piss all over

0:45:09 > 0:45:11whoever was in the bathtub.

0:45:13 > 0:45:15MAPPLETHORPE: The work dealing with

0:45:15 > 0:45:17sexuality is very directly related

0:45:17 > 0:45:19to my own experiences.

0:45:20 > 0:45:22It was an area that hadn't been

0:45:22 > 0:45:26explored in contemporary art

0:45:26 > 0:45:28and so it was an area that interested me

0:45:28 > 0:45:30in terms of making my statement.

0:45:30 > 0:45:32I was in the perfect situation

0:45:32 > 0:45:34in that most of the people in those

0:45:34 > 0:45:36photographs were friends of mine.

0:45:36 > 0:45:38And they trusted me.

0:45:38 > 0:45:40And I felt like,

0:45:40 > 0:45:42almost an obligation

0:45:42 > 0:45:43to record those things.

0:45:45 > 0:45:49Robert and I first met at The Mine Shaft.

0:45:49 > 0:45:52He comes over, and I'm like, "Oh, here it goes...

0:45:52 > 0:45:54"We're going to have an orgy

0:45:54 > 0:45:56"or go down in the basement."

0:45:56 > 0:45:58He was very good-looking.

0:45:58 > 0:46:00You know, all in black leather, it was like...

0:46:00 > 0:46:04It was hot, he said "Let's get out of here,"

0:46:04 > 0:46:07and we went home,

0:46:07 > 0:46:09did a bit of coke, had some sex,

0:46:09 > 0:46:12very, very vanilla sex,

0:46:12 > 0:46:14he looked bored out of his mind.

0:46:14 > 0:46:16And we were up in two hours.

0:46:16 > 0:46:19Just as I was nodding off,

0:46:19 > 0:46:22get up, to do the first shoot.

0:46:23 > 0:46:24We did it like six-thirty,

0:46:24 > 0:46:26seven in the morning.

0:46:26 > 0:46:27He said he liked the light

0:46:27 > 0:46:29coming in the window.

0:46:29 > 0:46:32MAPPLETHORPE: It becomes a documentary, in a sense.

0:46:32 > 0:46:35I like to see it more as an autobiography.

0:46:35 > 0:46:38You know, it's what I'm involved with

0:46:38 > 0:46:41at any given moment.

0:46:46 > 0:46:47Leave that open.

0:46:52 > 0:46:54I did this in a shop window.

0:47:02 > 0:47:04This is Hockney.

0:47:04 > 0:47:07And this is a young film directoress from LA.

0:47:08 > 0:47:11I remember this one time we were at his studio

0:47:11 > 0:47:15and he said, "Do you want to see my private stuff?"

0:47:15 > 0:47:17At that point, all this stuff was really taboo,

0:47:17 > 0:47:20none of this stuff was out in public when he was showing it to us.

0:47:20 > 0:47:22- It wasn't.- Yeah.- It wasn't.

0:47:22 > 0:47:26Robert lived, not too far east of my apartment,

0:47:26 > 0:47:28so I just walked there.

0:47:29 > 0:47:32I remember, as I got closer and closer,

0:47:32 > 0:47:35that I felt increasingly more frightened.

0:47:35 > 0:47:37I was a bit anxious.

0:47:37 > 0:47:42I'd look up, and there's Robert, up on the fire escape,

0:47:42 > 0:47:44smoking a cigarette and

0:47:44 > 0:47:47I was like, "OK, here we go."

0:47:50 > 0:47:52Hand-operated elevator.

0:47:54 > 0:47:56Five flights.

0:47:59 > 0:48:00Very low lit.

0:48:00 > 0:48:02Devil figures.

0:48:04 > 0:48:06Mysterious. Creepy.

0:48:06 > 0:48:10The first thing that struck me about him, he was not at all...

0:48:12 > 0:48:14..you know, the kind of person

0:48:14 > 0:48:18that one might think might make these kind of photographs.

0:48:18 > 0:48:20- RECORDING:- Well, this, er...

0:48:20 > 0:48:22- This will pick up. - Yes, this will pick up.

0:48:22 > 0:48:25- OK.- Now....

0:48:25 > 0:48:27He said, "Oh, is that a Sony?"

0:48:27 > 0:48:29And I said, "No, it's not."

0:48:29 > 0:48:33And he said, "Oh, Panasonic. Well, Sony is better."

0:48:33 > 0:48:37And you know, tease me about having the wrong tape recorder.

0:48:39 > 0:48:43In his early work, Mapplethorpe signed with an X,

0:48:43 > 0:48:45so there's a kind of double entendre here.

0:48:47 > 0:48:48Each portfolio,

0:48:48 > 0:48:52has 13 gelatine silver prints mounted on black board

0:48:52 > 0:48:54and signed in graphite.

0:48:59 > 0:49:00MAPPLETHORPE: Sex, is for me,

0:49:00 > 0:49:03probably the most important thing in life.

0:49:03 > 0:49:06You know, it's the one area that

0:49:06 > 0:49:10offers a bit of magic, a bit of something we don't know about.

0:49:11 > 0:49:14Just seeing how his little brother reacted, he just, he dug it.

0:49:14 > 0:49:18He loved to get a jolt out of people

0:49:18 > 0:49:22and...a reaction.

0:49:22 > 0:49:25Because...

0:49:25 > 0:49:27it was power. They were powerful.

0:49:27 > 0:49:31RECORDING: Any sexuality, like I portray it, it's very much today,

0:49:31 > 0:49:32but people will, you know,

0:49:32 > 0:49:35it will take a few years for people to realise that.

0:49:35 > 0:49:38You don't think that you're just existing in a specialised

0:49:38 > 0:49:41- kind of subculture? - New York is specialised,

0:49:41 > 0:49:45but what happens in New York is indicative of America, finally.

0:49:46 > 0:49:50If I was going to pick an image that I thought was humorous,

0:49:50 > 0:49:52I would pick the man in a rubber suit

0:49:52 > 0:49:54- with a hose coming out of his mouth.- Mm-hmm.

0:50:02 > 0:50:04That's really disgusting!

0:50:13 > 0:50:18I'd grown up with abstract art and conceptualism and...

0:50:21 > 0:50:27..you know, nude men in rubber suits were not part of my art education.

0:50:28 > 0:50:31So...

0:50:31 > 0:50:34it was hard to know how to talk about them.

0:50:35 > 0:50:38MAPPLETHORPE: I was always amazed that it shocked.

0:50:38 > 0:50:41I mean, just cos once I had a photograph and had taken it,

0:50:41 > 0:50:43it wasn't shocking to me any more.

0:50:43 > 0:50:45I'd been through the experience.

0:50:46 > 0:50:50Just watching me. Even though I was perhaps being tested that day,

0:50:50 > 0:50:52I wasn't going to fail.

0:50:52 > 0:50:55I was like, you know, "This is cool."

0:50:57 > 0:50:58"This is cool."

0:51:02 > 0:51:04MAPPLETHORPE: Maybe they're the best or most important pictures

0:51:04 > 0:51:06I've taken. When one sees something

0:51:06 > 0:51:10you've never seen before, it's rather important.

0:51:10 > 0:51:12I mean, still, I can show those to people and they will have never seen

0:51:12 > 0:51:15that image before, so it opens something up

0:51:15 > 0:51:18and I think that is what art is about,

0:51:18 > 0:51:19it is opening something up.

0:51:21 > 0:51:22A couple of times, he was like,

0:51:22 > 0:51:25"So, what do you think Dad would say about that one?"

0:51:25 > 0:51:28There were two that particularly,

0:51:28 > 0:51:30you know, took my breath away.

0:51:30 > 0:51:32One was a pinky inserted into a penis.

0:51:36 > 0:51:38That was like, "Oh, my God."

0:51:38 > 0:51:40And the other one was the fist.

0:51:44 > 0:51:47"Oh, OK, Robert."

0:51:48 > 0:51:51I guess you definitely found your voice.

0:51:53 > 0:51:55MAPPLETHORPE: I wanted to do a great fist-fucking photograph,

0:51:55 > 0:51:57so I did that picture,

0:51:57 > 0:51:59and then he said, "Now it's your turn."

0:51:59 > 0:52:02He sort of pinned me against the wall and said...

0:52:07 > 0:52:09Anyway once I had the picture taken,

0:52:09 > 0:52:11I thought it was a really good picture.

0:52:11 > 0:52:14But most people would say that image was a horrible image of yourself.

0:52:17 > 0:52:19It's a good one.

0:52:20 > 0:52:21Robert, he said,

0:52:21 > 0:52:24"I can't have you go home without giving mum and dad something."

0:52:24 > 0:52:26So he just went...

0:52:26 > 0:52:28And signed it "For mum and dad."

0:52:28 > 0:52:32It was certainly better than anything else they had up on the wall.

0:52:32 > 0:52:34Sorry!

0:52:35 > 0:52:37It was an Easter lilies print.

0:52:38 > 0:52:40Are you proud of your son?

0:52:40 > 0:52:42The artwork he did, yes.

0:52:43 > 0:52:46But for some of the photographs that he took,

0:52:46 > 0:52:48I just could not accept them either.

0:52:49 > 0:52:52He did a beautiful job on flowers.

0:52:52 > 0:52:55There was tension, there's no doubt about it.

0:52:55 > 0:52:58One time in particular, being very, very uncomfortable

0:52:58 > 0:53:00because my father wouldn't look at Robert.

0:53:02 > 0:53:05My father was an electrical engineer.

0:53:05 > 0:53:07He wore one of those pen-holders.

0:53:07 > 0:53:10Robert would make his attempts, he came with a Polaroid camera one time

0:53:10 > 0:53:13and gave the camera to my father to...

0:53:13 > 0:53:15He did a Polaroid of Robert.

0:53:16 > 0:53:19After he left, my father making mention

0:53:19 > 0:53:21of how Robert shook people's hands.

0:53:22 > 0:53:24It wasn't a manly handshake,

0:53:24 > 0:53:27it was a soft-set handshake.

0:53:29 > 0:53:35Let me say this, that I thought he was for quite a length of time,

0:53:35 > 0:53:38but I would never even mention it to my wife,

0:53:38 > 0:53:42because as far as my wife is concerned, he was her favourite.

0:53:42 > 0:53:45He and Patti told my parents they were married.

0:53:45 > 0:53:49I remember sending her birthday cards as Patti whatever,

0:53:49 > 0:53:52Mrs Robert Mapplethorpe.

0:53:52 > 0:53:53You know?

0:53:53 > 0:53:56I think my father always had his suspicions, though.

0:53:56 > 0:53:58There's no pictures.

0:53:58 > 0:54:01You know, there's no certificate.

0:54:01 > 0:54:03Did you resent the fact that he was gay?

0:54:03 > 0:54:04I did, yes.

0:54:04 > 0:54:07I guess I did, yes.

0:54:07 > 0:54:09He never spoke to me about it.

0:54:10 > 0:54:13Cos he knew I would never accept it.

0:54:14 > 0:54:17Admitting that he was gay or telling me that he was gay,

0:54:17 > 0:54:19that wouldn't have helped matters at all...

0:54:20 > 0:54:24..because, I probably would have had more resentment

0:54:24 > 0:54:26to that fact if he had TOLD me.

0:54:30 > 0:54:33So he was really not part of the family.

0:54:33 > 0:54:36You know? And it's sad, it's sad.

0:54:36 > 0:54:41I so wish I could talk to him now about it all, you know?

0:54:41 > 0:54:43But...

0:54:43 > 0:54:45yeah, Robert always wanted to be famous

0:54:45 > 0:54:47and he became famous.

0:54:47 > 0:54:51Dear Lloyd, I finally have a gallery in New York.

0:54:51 > 0:54:53It's run by a woman named Holly Solomon

0:54:53 > 0:54:56but you probably have never heard of it,

0:54:56 > 0:54:59but it doesn't seem to be a bad place to be for the moment.

0:55:00 > 0:55:04I said, "Before I show your work,

0:55:04 > 0:55:07"I would like you to do my portrait."

0:55:07 > 0:55:10And when he took my portrait,

0:55:10 > 0:55:13I was convinced that he was an artist,

0:55:13 > 0:55:18convinced that he could manipulate people extremely well -

0:55:18 > 0:55:21and I use the word manipulate -

0:55:21 > 0:55:24and so I said, "OK, let's do a show."

0:55:24 > 0:55:27Sam Wagstaff was a great photography collector.

0:55:27 > 0:55:31Holly Solomon said, "I wouldn't have touched Robert without Sam

0:55:31 > 0:55:33"and there are others like me who felt the same way."

0:55:38 > 0:55:40He had two shows in one day.

0:55:40 > 0:55:43One was the S&M pictures

0:55:43 > 0:55:46and then one were the pictures for, you know, the uptown trade.

0:55:47 > 0:55:49And then there was a dinner that Sam gave,

0:55:49 > 0:55:51a black tie dinner at One Fifth Avenue.

0:55:51 > 0:55:55It was carefully thought out, it was like an ad campaign, and it worked.

0:55:55 > 0:55:58MAPPLETHORPE: Sometimes I think it's better for the public

0:55:58 > 0:56:01to be able to separate things,

0:56:01 > 0:56:04because, when you mix them all up,

0:56:04 > 0:56:06the sex thing overpowers it

0:56:06 > 0:56:08and what happens is they just pick sex pictures out

0:56:08 > 0:56:10and that becomes the show.

0:56:10 > 0:56:12What would you say to those people

0:56:12 > 0:56:15who accuse you of having a dirty mind?

0:56:16 > 0:56:19Well, I don't know what that means exactly.

0:56:19 > 0:56:22I mean, I think everybody, in one way or another,

0:56:22 > 0:56:24is involved in sexuality,

0:56:24 > 0:56:26so if you believe that sex is dirty,

0:56:26 > 0:56:29everybody has a dirty mind, I suppose.

0:56:29 > 0:56:32But I never consider sex being dirty.

0:56:34 > 0:56:38The image that particularly riveted me was Mark Stevens,

0:56:38 > 0:56:40Mr 10 1/2,

0:56:40 > 0:56:44with his penis and balls laid out on the pedestal as if

0:56:44 > 0:56:49they were a work of art, which, in his case, they were.

0:56:49 > 0:56:50So...

0:56:50 > 0:56:55Artistic photography is controlled by very civilised people

0:56:55 > 0:56:58in New York City and

0:56:58 > 0:57:03in essence, he was glamorising the penis,

0:57:03 > 0:57:07which is a very uncivilized thing to do.

0:57:08 > 0:57:10He sold one only.

0:57:12 > 0:57:15So I bought the whole show from Robert,

0:57:15 > 0:57:18figuring, "OK, stuck is stuck."

0:57:28 > 0:57:32He said, "I want to go uptown," and he brought me a present.

0:57:32 > 0:57:36The present was a self-portrait with the whip up his...

0:57:38 > 0:57:41..tush. And my husband, he was quite insulted

0:57:41 > 0:57:44and he said, "I'm going to rip it up!" And I said, "No, you're not.

0:57:44 > 0:57:47"Someday I'm going to get handsomely paid for that photograph."

0:57:47 > 0:57:49Is that making a statement about myself?

0:57:49 > 0:57:52You know, it's one aspect of everybody, I suppose.

0:57:52 > 0:57:55You know, the demon within.

0:57:56 > 0:57:59There's a sense of humour in what I'm doing

0:57:59 > 0:58:01which I hope people pick up on.

0:58:01 > 0:58:04Sometimes they do and I'm always pleased when people see that.

0:58:04 > 0:58:06I don't think he could have produced

0:58:06 > 0:58:07the work he produced

0:58:07 > 0:58:09if he hadn't been raised Catholic.

0:58:09 > 0:58:12I think the way I arrange things is very Catholic.

0:58:12 > 0:58:15Even though I was never a religious person,

0:58:15 > 0:58:19I think it's rather important as an influence on my life.

0:58:19 > 0:58:23The imagery was what was important to him,

0:58:23 > 0:58:25not the dogma.

0:58:25 > 0:58:29There's something very ritualistic about sadomasochism.

0:58:29 > 0:58:33It's kind of a black mass basically, right.

0:58:35 > 0:58:39His S&M work is based on the Catholic martyrology.

0:58:43 > 0:58:45As grade schoolchildren,

0:58:45 > 0:58:49we hear tales of Saint Agatha tied to a stake

0:58:49 > 0:58:52and her tits torn off with a red-hot pinchers.

0:58:52 > 0:58:55If you're a little kid and hear that, twisted in a certain way,

0:58:55 > 0:58:58all of a sudden you're excited and not horrified.

0:59:01 > 0:59:05I'm really not, you know, into sadomasochism.

0:59:05 > 0:59:09You know, I don't encourage it with other people either,

0:59:09 > 0:59:15but I really felt as though there was a struggle in Robert

0:59:15 > 0:59:20between the crucifixes and devil images -

0:59:20 > 0:59:23good, evil -

0:59:23 > 0:59:25there is a great conflict there.

0:59:25 > 0:59:28He liked the fact that I had been in the seminary for many years

0:59:28 > 0:59:31and was an ordained exorcist in the Catholic church.

0:59:32 > 0:59:35And because I was trained to be a priest,

0:59:35 > 0:59:37he was very confessional to me.

0:59:37 > 0:59:39"Dear Jack, it's midnight.

0:59:39 > 0:59:43"MDA ingested, only the first signs now visible.

0:59:43 > 0:59:45"I've been out nearly every night.

0:59:45 > 0:59:47"Tonight is no different.

0:59:47 > 0:59:50"The Mine Shaft is beckoning.

0:59:50 > 0:59:54"Come, go, come, go, come with me.

0:59:54 > 0:59:56"Oh, I almost forgot to tell you.

0:59:56 > 1:00:00"I let some creep stick his hand up my ass.

1:00:00 > 1:00:05"I've been fisted, even came, but I think I prefer being the giver.

1:00:05 > 1:00:08"In fact, I can't help but give preferential treatment

1:00:08 > 1:00:10"to the feeding process.

1:00:10 > 1:00:15"I want to see the devil in us all.

1:00:15 > 1:00:17"That's my real turn on.

1:00:17 > 1:00:19"Love, Robert."

1:00:21 > 1:00:24I have to say that because nobody WILL say it.

1:00:27 > 1:00:30I have to say it and it's not to put him down,

1:00:30 > 1:00:32but it's simply to reveal.

1:00:32 > 1:00:34Robert...

1:00:36 > 1:00:39Satan to him was not this evil monster.

1:00:39 > 1:00:43Satan was like a convivial playmate,

1:00:43 > 1:00:45having a jolly good time seducing the maidens.

1:00:45 > 1:00:48To me it was a bridge too far.

1:00:48 > 1:00:49RUMBLING

1:00:49 > 1:00:51Go away!

1:00:51 > 1:00:54Can we close the doors? I'm getting awfully cold in here now.

1:00:54 > 1:00:56There's a draft. Mark!

1:00:56 > 1:01:00San Francisco, 1978.

1:01:00 > 1:01:01Robert was having a show.

1:01:01 > 1:01:04It was a sex show. It was unusual,

1:01:04 > 1:01:08I mean, you didn't see sex as art in galleries.

1:01:08 > 1:01:09And then someone said,

1:01:09 > 1:01:11"Well, you know, he did the album cover for Horses."

1:01:11 > 1:01:14It was the only black and white album cover.

1:01:14 > 1:01:17And to see an androgynous-looking woman with a jacket

1:01:17 > 1:01:20over her shoulder. I just love, love, love that photograph.

1:01:20 > 1:01:22Robert was holding court and he said

1:01:22 > 1:01:24well, let's have dinner the following night.

1:01:25 > 1:01:27And that's how I met him.

1:01:28 > 1:01:32And then I guess you want to know what happened the following night, right?

1:01:32 > 1:01:34He reminded me of a satyr.

1:01:34 > 1:01:37He literally looked like a mythological creature.

1:01:37 > 1:01:39Like half goat, half man.

1:01:40 > 1:01:45To be in Robert's world, you either had to be rich, famous,

1:01:45 > 1:01:47or sex.

1:01:47 > 1:01:50I wasn't rich, I wasn't famous,

1:01:50 > 1:01:51so it left that.

1:01:53 > 1:01:55As he certainly wasn't monogamous,

1:01:55 > 1:01:58he could have multiple relationships on a weekend,

1:01:58 > 1:02:00but with me there was no S&M.

1:02:00 > 1:02:03It was about being close and spooning, and, you know,

1:02:03 > 1:02:07just the normal, the normal kind of intimate stuff

1:02:07 > 1:02:10that he didn't have from picking up strangers.

1:02:10 > 1:02:12He said I want to do a nude.

1:02:12 > 1:02:14So I said why don't we do something like, you know,

1:02:14 > 1:02:18those pictures of the hunt, you know, where you have like

1:02:18 > 1:02:19the harvest with the dead rabbit

1:02:19 > 1:02:21and the fruit and everything all and about.

1:02:21 > 1:02:23So I thought it was going to be more like that

1:02:23 > 1:02:25and he turned up with just this dead rabbit.

1:02:27 > 1:02:29I said, "What am I going to do with this?

1:02:29 > 1:02:31"Like a mink stole or something?"

1:02:31 > 1:02:34I'm surprised you even know that picture because

1:02:34 > 1:02:38you'll never see a picture of me in any book by Mapplethorpe.

1:02:38 > 1:02:39You really won't.

1:02:39 > 1:02:42The fact that I started getting a reputation

1:02:42 > 1:02:46aside from just being Robert's, cute "with"

1:02:46 > 1:02:48from San Francisco -

1:02:48 > 1:02:50how dare I become a photographer that was well-known?

1:02:50 > 1:02:52This infuriated him.

1:02:52 > 1:02:55He couldn't deal with that.

1:02:55 > 1:02:57"I've had a house guest here for much too long -

1:02:57 > 1:03:00"a very cute boy that I met in San Francisco.

1:03:00 > 1:03:03"He's sweet, intelligent,

1:03:03 > 1:03:06"has a nice cock, but that ain't enough.

1:03:06 > 1:03:10"I wish he'd find an apartment, as he's cramping my style."

1:03:10 > 1:03:12That was probably me.

1:03:12 > 1:03:14I mean, but I've never heard that.

1:03:14 > 1:03:17I mean, I don't know who else he met in San Francisco.

1:03:17 > 1:03:19That's the first time I'm hearing that.

1:03:20 > 1:03:22Hmm.

1:03:23 > 1:03:26Well, it finally isn't enough, is it? What he wanted.

1:03:26 > 1:03:29It's never enough.

1:03:29 > 1:03:32Everything was a means to an end to his career.

1:03:32 > 1:03:33Everything.

1:03:40 > 1:03:43Oh, my God! You guys are old school, I love that.

1:03:45 > 1:03:47The Bond Street loft never changed.

1:03:47 > 1:03:49In the front was sort of no man's land and that's where

1:03:49 > 1:03:51- he used to photograph a lot.- Studio.

1:03:51 > 1:03:54Then you moved back, and it's this little sitting area

1:03:54 > 1:03:56which is where he would always hold court,

1:03:56 > 1:03:58but across from that was the bedroom.

1:03:58 > 1:04:00- Painted black.- Black.

1:04:00 > 1:04:03High...gloss, with the handcuff holds above the bed.

1:04:03 > 1:04:06- I never went in there.- Oh, I did!

1:04:06 > 1:04:08First thing he said to me,

1:04:08 > 1:04:10it's all you have to know is where the darkroom is.

1:04:10 > 1:04:12You know?

1:04:12 > 1:04:14OK, dude, whatever. You know, do your thing, I'll do mine.

1:04:16 > 1:04:19And remember the first image I printed which was just

1:04:19 > 1:04:22a nasty dirty picture.

1:04:22 > 1:04:25It's a guy laying on his back pulling on his nipples.

1:04:25 > 1:04:29It's not a well-known picture but it's a classic.

1:04:30 > 1:04:33- And that's where we went to work every day.- That's where we went.

1:04:33 > 1:04:35- Yeah, off to work. Here we go. - Little WASP-y blondes.

1:04:35 > 1:04:37- Yeah, WASP-y blondes. - Going to the den of iniquity.

1:04:37 > 1:04:39Going to the fist-fucking file.

1:04:39 > 1:04:43Wasn't it funny how soon we became anaesthetised to the sex pictures?

1:04:43 > 1:04:46- To the penis!- Yeah. I mean, cos it was just daily.

1:04:47 > 1:04:51There would always be film in the morning from the night before,

1:04:51 > 1:04:53so the first thing I'd do is process film.

1:04:53 > 1:04:55He'd come in in his robe.

1:04:55 > 1:04:57"How are the films, Tom?"

1:04:57 > 1:05:02When he saw the image for the very first time, he teased me.

1:05:02 > 1:05:04What do you think of that cock, Tom?

1:05:04 > 1:05:07You know, "Get the fuck out of here." You know?

1:05:07 > 1:05:10I was just out of school, looking for work

1:05:10 > 1:05:14and Robert was like, I don't know how I really feel about this,

1:05:14 > 1:05:17but I am looking for an assistant.

1:05:17 > 1:05:20And I started the next day.

1:05:20 > 1:05:23Because he didn't have a real photo background,

1:05:23 > 1:05:27he was always insecure about, technically, did I get the picture?

1:05:27 > 1:05:28You know, did it come out, did it come out?

1:05:28 > 1:05:32If it had light on it and he'd get it to exposure he was happy

1:05:32 > 1:05:34cos they were all fucked up in the middle of the night.

1:05:35 > 1:05:37MAPPLETHORPE: I'm not a technician.

1:05:37 > 1:05:39I never studied photography.

1:05:39 > 1:05:41I don't particularly care to know it.

1:05:41 > 1:05:43I know what a fine print is.

1:05:44 > 1:05:47I would probably have less than half the number of photographs

1:05:47 > 1:05:50if I did my own developing and printing.

1:05:51 > 1:05:53But he always had coke.

1:05:53 > 1:05:56I was the only guy he gave coke to cos he wanted me to keep going.

1:05:56 > 1:05:58He wasn't generous. But, you know,

1:05:58 > 1:06:01"If I give Tom a little coke he'll print faster."

1:06:01 > 1:06:02You know?

1:06:02 > 1:06:05Yeah, Tom, he'd go in the darkroom and get me a bump.

1:06:07 > 1:06:09You know, my father said to me,

1:06:09 > 1:06:12"How can Robert call himself a photographer

1:06:12 > 1:06:14"if he doesn't even know how to process a roll of film?"

1:06:14 > 1:06:17But Robert had vision.

1:06:17 > 1:06:20He always had a certain way of seeing things,

1:06:20 > 1:06:26so how you got there didn't really concern him so much.

1:06:26 > 1:06:30He wanted everything to just be flawless.

1:06:30 > 1:06:34You know, let's make this guy's arm meet this corner

1:06:34 > 1:06:36and let's straighten it out a little bit.

1:06:36 > 1:06:40"But it's a guy pissing in another guy's mouth, what the fuck's the difference?"

1:06:40 > 1:06:43He wanted things as...

1:06:43 > 1:06:45you know, unrealistically

1:06:45 > 1:06:47perfect and smooth,

1:06:47 > 1:06:50and taking all the flaws out of the skin.

1:06:50 > 1:06:53You know, some days we'd just sit and retouch for a day,

1:06:53 > 1:06:56until all of the blemishes were gone.

1:07:01 > 1:07:04MAPPLETHORPE: I talked to Patti about doing a book

1:07:04 > 1:07:07and having her transform herself

1:07:07 > 1:07:09into all these different characters

1:07:09 > 1:07:11that would have been Patti.

1:07:11 > 1:07:14I mean, she would be this character one day and that character another.

1:07:14 > 1:07:17And I think she had a certain range that

1:07:17 > 1:07:20could have probably carried a whole book,

1:07:20 > 1:07:22but I never did a book with her.

1:07:29 > 1:07:33I met Lisa and I realised that she, in fact, had this range within her.

1:07:33 > 1:07:37A very different range, but it was still worthy of a book.

1:07:39 > 1:07:41I thought she was unique.

1:07:41 > 1:07:44She had this form that I'd never seen before.

1:07:44 > 1:07:47It was like a complete new animal.

1:07:49 > 1:07:52She was particularly important to Mapplethorpe because he was trying

1:07:52 > 1:07:55to balance out his sex pictures with pictures of women.

1:07:55 > 1:07:59Mm-hm. It's so interesting to think about how the female body-building

1:07:59 > 1:08:03idea then was really radical and kind of challenging.

1:08:03 > 1:08:07- That kind of physique to us doesn't seem so shocking.- Right.

1:08:07 > 1:08:10She's such a prominent subject.

1:08:11 > 1:08:13Very '80s.

1:08:13 > 1:08:16- The make-up, the hair, the ruffled blouse.- Oh, yeah.

1:08:16 > 1:08:18- Mm-hm.- The shoulder pads.

1:08:18 > 1:08:20It was prototype for a new species.

1:08:20 > 1:08:22Sort of an animal perfection,

1:08:22 > 1:08:23and I felt in him

1:08:23 > 1:08:26a kind of male version of the same thing.

1:08:26 > 1:08:28My ambition, that I discussed with him, was to explore

1:08:28 > 1:08:32the range of possibilities of ways of being a woman -

1:08:32 > 1:08:34historical ways, contemporary ways,

1:08:34 > 1:08:36cliche ways, unheard-of ways,

1:08:36 > 1:08:39tribal ways, the high fashion-type,

1:08:39 > 1:08:40the sex goddess-type,

1:08:40 > 1:08:43the lingerie-type, the bondage-type,

1:08:43 > 1:08:45the virgin-type, the bridal-type,

1:08:45 > 1:08:46the statue-type.

1:08:48 > 1:08:52What had seemed very daring

1:08:52 > 1:08:55when he did it with men...

1:08:58 > 1:09:02..looked very retrograde when he did it with a woman

1:09:02 > 1:09:07who was dressing up in different hats and garments.

1:09:10 > 1:09:14And so I wrote about that and he was furious.

1:09:14 > 1:09:16I think he called me and yelled at me.

1:09:16 > 1:09:18I feel like

1:09:18 > 1:09:21it may have been a bad idea to write that review.

1:09:23 > 1:09:25I mean, that is sculpture to me.

1:09:25 > 1:09:27You know, that's sort of one of the points I'm making

1:09:27 > 1:09:31in photography, is being a sculptor,

1:09:31 > 1:09:33without actually having to spend all the time sort of

1:09:33 > 1:09:35modelling with your hands.

1:09:35 > 1:09:37You know, that's much too archaic for me.

1:09:37 > 1:09:40It's like inventing sculpture myself with a camera.

1:09:40 > 1:09:42It really is like bronze, you know?

1:09:42 > 1:09:44I often say that photographing black men is like

1:09:44 > 1:09:46photographing bronzes, you know?

1:09:49 > 1:09:54I was the last white intimate person in his life.

1:09:54 > 1:09:57After that he was only sleeping with black people,

1:09:57 > 1:09:59photographing black people.

1:09:59 > 1:10:01He became obsessed with black people.

1:10:08 > 1:10:10MAPPLETHORPE: All I know is that

1:10:10 > 1:10:13it's physically attractive to me.

1:10:13 > 1:10:15Visually it's also attractive,

1:10:15 > 1:10:18and so it became an obsession with me,

1:10:18 > 1:10:22taking these pictures of blacks.

1:10:22 > 1:10:25People would accuse him of exploiting these people,

1:10:25 > 1:10:29and...

1:10:29 > 1:10:32He told me he photographed what he loved to do

1:10:32 > 1:10:34and the people he loved to be with,

1:10:34 > 1:10:37and to me that's not exploitation.

1:10:37 > 1:10:43That's just living your life, and using a camera to document it.

1:10:43 > 1:10:47For the most part, when whites have photographed blacks,

1:10:47 > 1:10:52they've sort of shown them from a certain social point of view.

1:10:52 > 1:10:54I'm photographing them as form,

1:10:54 > 1:10:56in the same way that I'm reading the flowers

1:10:56 > 1:10:57or anything else that are photographed.

1:10:57 > 1:11:02I'm not attempting to make a social statement about their plight.

1:11:02 > 1:11:07Robert was looking for God in a black man,

1:11:07 > 1:11:12and he found him in Milton Moore.

1:11:12 > 1:11:15And fell in love with him.

1:11:16 > 1:11:20Now, I think he fell in love -

1:11:20 > 1:11:22and this sounds ridiculous -

1:11:22 > 1:11:24with Milton's penis.

1:11:27 > 1:11:32Robert was looking for the absolute perfect black penis,

1:11:32 > 1:11:36and he had it, I mean, the exact measurements down.

1:11:36 > 1:11:38I mean, it had to be just so,

1:11:38 > 1:11:40and he'd discuss it with others,

1:11:40 > 1:11:43and, you know, the ratio to this and that.

1:11:43 > 1:11:46The thing the world is most afraid of is penis...

1:11:47 > 1:11:51..and Robert dared show penis, but he dared show black penis,

1:11:51 > 1:11:53and there's nothing more scary, because behind

1:11:53 > 1:11:57all of sexual prejudice is the sex envy,

1:11:57 > 1:12:02this penis envy, that drives people insane,

1:12:02 > 1:12:05either with lust or with fear.

1:12:05 > 1:12:09Milton did say to him as one condition of taking the pictures,

1:12:09 > 1:12:14that he could not show his head in the frame.

1:12:26 > 1:12:30Picture Of Man In Polyester Suit was really one of his most famous.

1:12:30 > 1:12:36Milton had picked up that suit in Hong Kong and was very proud of it,

1:12:36 > 1:12:40and Robert purposely lined up his thumb

1:12:40 > 1:12:42so that it would show off the cheap seams.

1:12:46 > 1:12:48I'd never seen it and then we went to the framers

1:12:48 > 1:12:51and I saw it laying on the floor as it was going to be put into

1:12:51 > 1:12:53the frame, and I said,

1:12:53 > 1:12:58"Robert, this is a show that the whole world will see."

1:12:58 > 1:13:00He said to me,

1:13:00 > 1:13:03"Will anyone write about it?"

1:13:03 > 1:13:05That was his comment.

1:13:05 > 1:13:06And they did.

1:13:06 > 1:13:10"Main picture here is a big black dude seen in an expensive

1:13:10 > 1:13:12"vested gabardine suit

1:13:12 > 1:13:15"with his fly open and his elephant cock sticking out.

1:13:15 > 1:13:17"This picture is ugly, degrading, obscene,

1:13:17 > 1:13:21"but typical of the artist's work, which appeal largely

1:13:21 > 1:13:23"to drooling, lascivious collectors,

1:13:23 > 1:13:27"who buy them and return to their furnished rooms to jerk off."

1:13:30 > 1:13:35We actually did sell that picture,

1:13:35 > 1:13:36during the exhibition,

1:13:36 > 1:13:40to a collector in New York for 2,500.

1:13:40 > 1:13:42It was a reach.

1:13:42 > 1:13:45It was a big price for a photograph

1:13:45 > 1:13:49and especially by a living photographer.

1:13:49 > 1:13:53There were 20 works in the show and we placed all of them

1:13:53 > 1:13:56with very strong collectors, which was very important for Robert.

1:13:56 > 1:14:00This was the first show that had ever happened to him,

1:14:00 > 1:14:03and it was a kind of lightning rod,

1:14:03 > 1:14:05and it was notorious.

1:14:06 > 1:14:10Lot 144, Robert Mapplethorpe's Man In Polyester Suit,

1:14:10 > 1:14:13and I'm going to start the bidding here at 180,000.

1:14:13 > 1:14:17It's possibly one of the top ten most recognisable images

1:14:17 > 1:14:19in photographic history.

1:14:19 > 1:14:21- 210.- 220.

1:14:21 > 1:14:23It's an iconic image.

1:14:23 > 1:14:26You know, it's like Andy's Marilyn.

1:14:26 > 1:14:29360. 380.

1:14:29 > 1:14:31390,000.

1:14:39 > 1:14:43None of us realised that photography at its

1:14:43 > 1:14:46beginning was just considered commercial reproduction,

1:14:46 > 1:14:48commercial reproduction.

1:14:48 > 1:14:51Many collectors would never dream of collecting,

1:14:51 > 1:14:56and I think Mapplethorpe is one of the artists

1:14:56 > 1:15:00responsible for photography being considered on an equal basis

1:15:00 > 1:15:02with sculpture and painting.

1:15:02 > 1:15:07I never for a second doubted that photography was a very real art.

1:15:07 > 1:15:11There was something about his photography immediately attracted me.

1:15:11 > 1:15:17I was shocked by his absolute brutal honesty about everything,

1:15:17 > 1:15:21from sexual organs to relationships between people.

1:15:21 > 1:15:25MAPPLETHORPE: You know, the people that have influenced me the most

1:15:25 > 1:15:27are the relationships I've had,

1:15:27 > 1:15:30you know, the lovers I've had in my life,

1:15:30 > 1:15:34and of course I've photographed every one of them.

1:15:34 > 1:15:36The only time that Robert ever cried was talking about

1:15:36 > 1:15:38how much he loved Milton.

1:15:38 > 1:15:40Not Patti, Milton.

1:15:40 > 1:15:42Milton.

1:15:57 > 1:16:00He had just did that show called Black Males

1:16:00 > 1:16:02at the Robert Miller Gallery,

1:16:02 > 1:16:06so I went to go see that show.

1:16:06 > 1:16:08I said, "That's going to be my boyfriend."

1:16:09 > 1:16:13We lived together for the better part of a decade.

1:16:13 > 1:16:15We rarely fought.

1:16:16 > 1:16:19You know, because he was too self-absorbed

1:16:19 > 1:16:21to really care.

1:16:21 > 1:16:25It was so easy to be around him because he was so busy

1:16:25 > 1:16:27being Robert Mapplethorpe.

1:16:29 > 1:16:34When we started seeing each other, he started taking pictures.

1:16:34 > 1:16:35Right?

1:16:35 > 1:16:40And I was kind of shy, so I didn't want to take nude pictures.

1:16:40 > 1:16:43And Robert goes, "Just don't look at your dick.

1:16:43 > 1:16:45He goes, "It's just a picture."

1:16:49 > 1:16:52There is no picture of Ken Moody's dick.

1:16:54 > 1:16:57There just isn't. And I'm sorry.

1:16:59 > 1:17:03As soon as I stepped in front of the seamless, it was magic.

1:17:03 > 1:17:06It was absolute magic.

1:17:08 > 1:17:13There's no way you can describe it other than making love.

1:17:15 > 1:17:19And as soon as we stepped away from that backdrop...

1:17:20 > 1:17:24..nothing, absolutely nothing.

1:17:24 > 1:17:27We had nothing in common, we had nothing to say to each other.

1:17:27 > 1:17:33There was a ghetto element to the men that he had the strongest attraction to.

1:17:33 > 1:17:35I had none of that.

1:17:35 > 1:17:39He's quoted in an article as saying that I was too white for him.

1:17:41 > 1:17:43Too white.

1:17:43 > 1:17:45HE CHUCKLES

1:17:45 > 1:17:47MAPPLETHORPE: I brought them together.

1:17:47 > 1:17:50It was interesting because they'd never met and never had

1:17:50 > 1:17:53a conversation with somebody else that had lost all of their hair

1:17:53 > 1:17:57as a child, and it was interesting to watch them react

1:17:57 > 1:17:59and relate to each other.

1:17:59 > 1:18:04The more time goes by, the bigger that photograph gets.

1:18:04 > 1:18:07When it was in Times Square on the Nasdaq billboard,

1:18:07 > 1:18:09that was like...wow!

1:18:09 > 1:18:11Where's my mother?

1:18:15 > 1:18:19I've read several things on the shot of Ken and I.

1:18:19 > 1:18:24It's like they've tried to read all of this philosophy into it.

1:18:24 > 1:18:27Black Ken, eyes closed,

1:18:27 > 1:18:31meaning the subconscious white Robert, eyes open,

1:18:31 > 1:18:34afraid of the unconscious.

1:18:34 > 1:18:36I'm like, "What?"

1:18:36 > 1:18:39The black man was in the background

1:18:39 > 1:18:43because the black man's neck wasn't long enough

1:18:43 > 1:18:47to reach over the white man's shoulder.

1:18:47 > 1:18:50We tried it, and my neck wasn't long enough!

1:18:50 > 1:18:53I think that's why he did every position...

1:18:53 > 1:18:55- Exactly. - ..to find out what worked best.

1:18:55 > 1:18:58There was no philosophical anything.

1:18:58 > 1:19:01Robert was so not like that.

1:19:01 > 1:19:03No, totally not.

1:19:03 > 1:19:05Take your shirt off.

1:19:05 > 1:19:07Sounds silly, I guess, using the word magic.

1:19:07 > 1:19:09Now fold your arms.

1:19:09 > 1:19:12Stay right there. Lift your head up a little bit.

1:19:12 > 1:19:15I was able to pick up the magic of the moment and work with it.

1:19:15 > 1:19:18You know, that's my rush in doing photography.

1:19:18 > 1:19:20Hold that! Hold that.

1:19:20 > 1:19:22Tilt a little right and turn a little right.

1:19:22 > 1:19:24Turn your head to the right.

1:19:24 > 1:19:26Now bring your eyes back to me.

1:19:28 > 1:19:31Look back here. Lean right, turn right.

1:19:31 > 1:19:34Put your head down. Now bring your eyes up.

1:19:34 > 1:19:37Click, click, click, click. Eyes to me.

1:19:37 > 1:19:39Click. Chin up.

1:19:39 > 1:19:40Turn this way.

1:19:41 > 1:19:43Turn your head this way.

1:19:43 > 1:19:46Yeah. More. More. More.

1:19:46 > 1:19:49And gently, instead of looking to the side, look straight out.

1:19:49 > 1:19:51Often I'm dealing with fractions of inches.

1:19:51 > 1:19:53Now turn.

1:19:53 > 1:19:55Just, yeah, from the neck. Stay there.

1:19:55 > 1:19:57I'm looking for that perfect position

1:19:57 > 1:20:01where the head sort of somehow makes sense to me.

1:20:01 > 1:20:04Actually, I should take it with all of the things coming in at you.

1:20:04 > 1:20:05Look this way.

1:20:07 > 1:20:09That's rather good, actually.

1:20:13 > 1:20:16I'm going to start showing a series of portraits.

1:20:16 > 1:20:20I'll stop at any point but I don't want to comment

1:20:20 > 1:20:23too much about the pictures cos I want my vision to come across,

1:20:23 > 1:20:25the way I see things.

1:20:25 > 1:20:27That's William Burroughs.

1:20:27 > 1:20:30Philip Glass on the left, Robert Wilson on the right.

1:20:30 > 1:20:34Donald Sutherland, one of the best subjects I've ever photographed.

1:20:34 > 1:20:35Annie Leibovitz,

1:20:35 > 1:20:38one of the most difficult subjects I've ever photographed.

1:20:38 > 1:20:40LAUGHTER

1:20:40 > 1:20:41That's Debbie Harry.

1:20:41 > 1:20:43I sat for him a couple of times,

1:20:43 > 1:20:46which was pretty scary for me the first time.

1:20:46 > 1:20:48Smiling wasn't his thing.

1:20:48 > 1:20:50You know, the way that he saw people,

1:20:50 > 1:20:55was like he was seeing into them or something, or through them.

1:20:56 > 1:20:59I don't think it's necessary to tell you

1:20:59 > 1:21:00who is in each photograph because

1:21:00 > 1:21:03if the pictures are good then they'll transcend who they are

1:21:03 > 1:21:04and it doesn't matter.

1:21:04 > 1:21:07- He became known for the elegance of his portraits.- Mm-hm.

1:21:07 > 1:21:09And any photographer who takes

1:21:09 > 1:21:11pictures of celebrities is making

1:21:11 > 1:21:13a smart business move because

1:21:13 > 1:21:15those people and their friends have

1:21:15 > 1:21:17lots of money and they buy pictures.

1:21:17 > 1:21:20Yeah. Well, and his social life was a part of his artistic life.

1:21:20 > 1:21:23- That's right. - It was very interconnected.

1:21:31 > 1:21:35MAPPLETHORPE: Ideally, you get the subject to a point

1:21:35 > 1:21:37where they direct themselves.

1:21:37 > 1:21:40They say, "This is really what I want to be photographed doing."

1:21:40 > 1:21:44I thought it was going to be a catastrophe, and I prepared for it,

1:21:44 > 1:21:47so I did take a piece of mine.

1:21:47 > 1:21:50It was a good collaboration, right, because he's famous

1:21:50 > 1:21:52not for his flower pictures.

1:21:52 > 1:21:57He's famous for his objectionable sexual representation.

1:21:57 > 1:22:00You know, taking pictures of sex is no different than

1:22:00 > 1:22:03photographing a flower, really. I mean, it's the same thing.

1:22:03 > 1:22:07It's just submitting to whatever's going on and trying to get

1:22:07 > 1:22:10the best possible view of it.

1:22:10 > 1:22:14Nobody else can photograph flowers the way I do.

1:22:14 > 1:22:16It's just the way I see.

1:22:17 > 1:22:20Even Robert said that the pictures started getting very, very slick.

1:22:20 > 1:22:21That was the word.

1:22:21 > 1:22:23So slick, so perfect.

1:22:24 > 1:22:28But perfection, that's a Mapplethorpe characteristic.

1:22:28 > 1:22:30Perfection.

1:22:34 > 1:22:39Anybody who was involved in that studio will agree with me

1:22:39 > 1:22:43that you just got sucked into Robert's world.

1:22:43 > 1:22:45You wanted to.

1:22:45 > 1:22:46I mean, you just did.

1:22:46 > 1:22:49It was an interesting world, it was a lot of excitement,

1:22:49 > 1:22:52it was a lot of fun, but I wanted to do something else.

1:22:54 > 1:22:57I can't just be Robert's assistant for the rest of my life.

1:23:02 > 1:23:05So then the invitation gets sent out.

1:23:05 > 1:23:07Nice group of artists.

1:23:07 > 1:23:08All alphabetical.

1:23:08 > 1:23:10And lo and behold,

1:23:10 > 1:23:14Edward Mapplethorpe comes before Robert Mapplethorpe.

1:23:14 > 1:23:16And he was...

1:23:16 > 1:23:17ruthless.

1:23:17 > 1:23:20He was...nasty,

1:23:20 > 1:23:23and said,

1:23:23 > 1:23:25"I'm not going to have any kid brother,

1:23:25 > 1:23:29"I've worked really hard to get where I've gotten,

1:23:29 > 1:23:33"and if you think you're going to come and ride on my coat-tails..."

1:23:41 > 1:23:44And I was like, "Fuck, man," I was like...

1:23:47 > 1:23:48Wow!

1:23:48 > 1:23:51And Robert asked him to change his name,

1:23:51 > 1:23:55which he struggled with, I think, for a while, but then did.

1:23:55 > 1:23:57- He changed it to Maxi.- Right.

1:23:57 > 1:23:59But...

1:23:59 > 1:24:04It was all about Robert, it was ALL about Robert.

1:24:04 > 1:24:05You know, they were brothers.

1:24:05 > 1:24:08I can't imagine what all that was like.

1:24:08 > 1:24:13You know, it was a futile attempt because everyone would go,

1:24:13 > 1:24:17"This is Edward Maxi, he's Robert Mapplethorpe's brother."

1:24:17 > 1:24:19I was like what good is this doing? This is ridiculous.

1:24:21 > 1:24:23But, yeah, it sucked.

1:24:24 > 1:24:26That day sucked.

1:24:27 > 1:24:31Just like the day that he got angry at me for deciding

1:24:31 > 1:24:33that I was going to leave the studio.

1:24:33 > 1:24:35This is somebody who two years earlier didn't know whether

1:24:35 > 1:24:39he wanted me in the studio with him. Two years later,

1:24:39 > 1:24:43I guess he learned to rely on me quite a bit,

1:24:43 > 1:24:47and was angry, very angry.

1:24:52 > 1:24:56- NEWSREEL:- The lifestyle of some male homosexuals

1:24:56 > 1:24:58has triggered an epidemic of a rare form of cancer.

1:24:58 > 1:25:02He would go to the bar in the afternoon, pick up someone,

1:25:02 > 1:25:05have sex with them.

1:25:05 > 1:25:08Then go back later that night,

1:25:08 > 1:25:11maybe again pick up someone else,

1:25:11 > 1:25:14and then, towards the end of the night, like a night cap.

1:25:14 > 1:25:18Last weekend, Mayor Koch predicted that The Mine Shaft would close.

1:25:18 > 1:25:20They are selling death.

1:25:20 > 1:25:23Places where death can be distributed.

1:25:23 > 1:25:26They're making love in the street on top of cars and everything.

1:25:26 > 1:25:29This is men, grown men. I mean, that's not normal.

1:25:29 > 1:25:32Most of these people, they're not fit, they're not human beings.

1:25:32 > 1:25:34They have emotional problems.

1:25:57 > 1:26:00Cos I was sleeping with him for all of those years,

1:26:00 > 1:26:02I thought I was going to die.

1:26:02 > 1:26:05I had came back from an appointment to get my results,

1:26:05 > 1:26:08he was laying in the bed when I walked in,

1:26:08 > 1:26:12and then he looked at me and said, "You got it, right?"

1:26:12 > 1:26:15I said, "No, no, no, no, no," I said, "I'm negative."

1:26:15 > 1:26:17I remember he got really upset and he goes,

1:26:17 > 1:26:19"Then why do I have it? Why do I have it?"

1:26:19 > 1:26:21And he started like pounding the bed.

1:26:27 > 1:26:30AIDS at the time was pretty much a death sentence, right?

1:26:30 > 1:26:33And he, on the one hand was upset, but on the other hand

1:26:33 > 1:26:37he was fascinated by the demand for his work.

1:26:37 > 1:26:41Like, his market took off when people heard that he was about to die.

1:26:43 > 1:26:45It really took off.

1:26:45 > 1:26:47We were very busy.

1:26:47 > 1:26:49We didn't stop working and he didn't stop shooting

1:26:49 > 1:26:52until he physically couldn't get out of bed.

1:26:52 > 1:26:54He was like, "What am I shooting next?

1:26:54 > 1:26:55"Get me some flowers. Let's do that."

1:26:55 > 1:27:00You know, and the flowers got done, the statues got done,

1:27:00 > 1:27:02the commissioned portraits got done.

1:27:02 > 1:27:04MAPPLETHORPE: One day I'll photograph flowers,

1:27:04 > 1:27:06the next day I'll do some fashion work,

1:27:06 > 1:27:08the next day I'll do some pornography,

1:27:08 > 1:27:11the next day I will do a portrait. You know, I don't really care.

1:27:13 > 1:27:15I sort of thought I should be keeping a journal.

1:27:15 > 1:27:17"I did watch him shoot today.

1:27:17 > 1:27:20"It's so amazing to see how he musters the energy to do the pictures.

1:27:20 > 1:27:23"It absolutely keeps him going.

1:27:24 > 1:27:26"And the money. Funny money."

1:27:27 > 1:27:28Natrel Plus.

1:27:28 > 1:27:31Long-lasting Natrel protection.

1:27:31 > 1:27:34He was never interested in talking about his health.

1:27:34 > 1:27:36All he wanted to talk about were sales and who was looking

1:27:36 > 1:27:39at his work, and when are we going to have a million-dollar month?

1:27:39 > 1:27:43He was interested in making as much money as possible

1:27:43 > 1:27:47and he resented the fact that his contemporaries', like Brice Marden,

1:27:47 > 1:27:50work started selling for several hundred thousand dollars,

1:27:50 > 1:27:53and Robert's works are selling for 1,100.

1:27:55 > 1:27:57Mapplethorpe had a sort of jealous

1:27:57 > 1:28:00or competitive relationship with Warhol.

1:28:01 > 1:28:05He would say to me, weekly, "If I die,

1:28:05 > 1:28:08"will I have died with as much money as Andy Warhol had?"

1:28:08 > 1:28:11And I'd say "No, not nearly."

1:28:11 > 1:28:12Not nearly.

1:28:12 > 1:28:15I remember him saying to me once how frustrated he was

1:28:15 > 1:28:19about being ill because he was getting all this money now,

1:28:19 > 1:28:23and he actually said "I won't be able to enjoy it."

1:28:23 > 1:28:27He was not very interested in leaving money to people,

1:28:27 > 1:28:31so the foundation idea really began to appeal to

1:28:31 > 1:28:34him because his money, his assets, his real estate,

1:28:34 > 1:28:38his art collection would support his foundation,

1:28:38 > 1:28:40so it would automatically promote him.

1:28:43 > 1:28:47Robert sent for me for his birthday, his 40th birthday party.

1:28:47 > 1:28:49That's when I was like, whoa.

1:28:49 > 1:28:51This is not good.

1:28:53 > 1:28:57Robert Mapplethorpe's way to interpret me

1:28:57 > 1:29:01was totally different than any other photographer.

1:29:02 > 1:29:06He wanted my hair back, so that was unusual to me.

1:29:06 > 1:29:09Everybody else had always wanted me to do a hairdo.

1:29:09 > 1:29:13He wanted a very, very natural feel.

1:29:13 > 1:29:15I look like an angel on that picture,

1:29:15 > 1:29:17so how can I not be pleased?

1:29:17 > 1:29:20He was the first photographer to

1:29:20 > 1:29:23photograph me completely in profile.

1:29:24 > 1:29:26It's never, he was the only one.

1:29:27 > 1:29:32The profile was just so much more soul-baring.

1:29:33 > 1:29:35I got to sort of study him.

1:29:35 > 1:29:37He didn't seem happy.

1:29:37 > 1:29:40Everything seemed precious and I think there was no sense

1:29:40 > 1:29:43of wanting to waste time or be frivolous.

1:29:43 > 1:29:47In German, you say, there's this word, "getrieben",

1:29:47 > 1:29:51which means as if something is chasing you constantly.

1:29:53 > 1:29:56I used to go and visit him.

1:29:56 > 1:29:58We both sensed that he was dying,

1:29:58 > 1:30:00but we didn't talk about it.

1:30:00 > 1:30:04And he had that very sad expression because he didn't want to leave.

1:30:04 > 1:30:06He wanted to stay.

1:30:06 > 1:30:07You know?

1:30:07 > 1:30:10And one day he said, "I need to take a photograph of you

1:30:10 > 1:30:14"and you need this one because it's going to be the last one."

1:30:14 > 1:30:17That's what he said. I said, "Don't be silly!"

1:30:18 > 1:30:19And it was.

1:30:22 > 1:30:26It was just sort of business as usual until things progressed

1:30:26 > 1:30:29and he was having a harder and harder time getting out of his seat.

1:30:29 > 1:30:31And he had a horrible, horrible cough,

1:30:31 > 1:30:33which I guess was typical.

1:30:33 > 1:30:36Six o'clock would roll around and then he'd sort of be like,

1:30:36 > 1:30:38"Can you come keep me company?"

1:30:38 > 1:30:41You know, it was this little boy. "Don't leave!"

1:30:41 > 1:30:43Little baby voice.

1:30:43 > 1:30:45Robert was in his bedroom,

1:30:45 > 1:30:47not feeling particularly well,

1:30:47 > 1:30:49and he was like, you know, he was like,

1:30:49 > 1:30:54"I'd like to do a picture with my hand holding the skull cane."

1:30:54 > 1:30:55And I said to Brian, I said,

1:30:55 > 1:30:57"Listen, this has got to be a self-portrait."

1:30:57 > 1:31:01And it wasn't often that he'd wanted to take his own picture,

1:31:01 > 1:31:02but he had been trying.

1:31:02 > 1:31:06I took the skull cane and I held it like this and I said,

1:31:06 > 1:31:07"Do a Polaroid."

1:31:08 > 1:31:10So I brought it to Robert and he was like, "Wow!

1:31:10 > 1:31:13"That's good." And his knees started to hurt,

1:31:13 > 1:31:16so we put a chair in for him to sit on.

1:31:18 > 1:31:21That's the classic masterpiece picture.

1:31:21 > 1:31:23It's a tremendous photograph.

1:31:23 > 1:31:26One of the greatest self-portraits of all time.

1:31:33 > 1:31:37- RADIO:- It is 2:38. Here's the WNBC weather - cloudy, breezy,

1:31:37 > 1:31:40chance of showers and thunderstorms right through the evening.

1:31:40 > 1:31:43The low tonight in low 60s. Right now, 74 degrees.

1:32:07 > 1:32:12There was something electric that day.

1:32:12 > 1:32:13It wasn't just an opening.

1:32:13 > 1:32:15It was a...

1:32:15 > 1:32:20..a memorial with a living corpse.

1:32:22 > 1:32:24Your heart just went out to him because here he was having

1:32:24 > 1:32:26the success that he dreamed of from those days

1:32:26 > 1:32:29in coffee shops in the village,

1:32:29 > 1:32:33and, you know, we could tell he was dying.

1:32:39 > 1:32:41This is... Someone took this picture of me...

1:32:43 > 1:32:45..taking a picture of him.

1:32:45 > 1:32:47He knew what I was doing there.

1:32:49 > 1:32:51I think he understood the whole thing.

1:32:51 > 1:32:54He didn't like it, but he understood it.

1:32:54 > 1:32:55I think that was his proudest day.

1:32:55 > 1:32:57I really do.

1:32:57 > 1:33:00He looked like the king sitting there.

1:33:04 > 1:33:08Had everything from flowers to fist fucking...

1:33:09 > 1:33:12..and I had to go around the room with my mother in a wheelchair.

1:33:15 > 1:33:16Wow! Yeah.

1:33:16 > 1:33:19When I saw the one with the whip, I thought, "Oh, my God!"

1:33:19 > 1:33:23And I remember going to my kids and I went,

1:33:23 > 1:33:26"That's him?!" It was a self portrait!

1:33:27 > 1:33:29He loved attention.

1:33:29 > 1:33:33Even though it had to do with the fact that he was a dying man,

1:33:33 > 1:33:34it didn't matter.

1:33:34 > 1:33:36He was one picture.

1:33:36 > 1:33:38I mean, it stunned people.

1:33:38 > 1:33:41We all sort of were under the impression it was going to be

1:33:41 > 1:33:45this glorious article, when in fact...

1:33:45 > 1:33:47- That was sad.- Yeah.

1:33:47 > 1:33:50- I'm sure he saw his own mortality. - Yeah.

1:33:50 > 1:33:52Very clearly at that moment.

1:33:52 > 1:33:55His image out there was this handsome, vain,

1:33:55 > 1:33:57elegant creature, and...

1:33:58 > 1:34:00..people really...

1:34:01 > 1:34:03..were shocked.

1:34:03 > 1:34:05I mean, come on! It was like...

1:34:05 > 1:34:07he was alive!

1:34:15 > 1:34:19Working with Robert Mapplethorpe has been my most enlightening

1:34:19 > 1:34:23and rewarding curatorial experience.

1:34:23 > 1:34:27I felt that Robert Mapplethorpe's work was so important,

1:34:27 > 1:34:31so I went to New York and visited him at his studio.

1:34:31 > 1:34:33We started to talk.

1:34:33 > 1:34:35He was very easy to talk to.

1:34:35 > 1:34:39I felt after five minutes that I'd known him a long time.

1:34:39 > 1:34:42MAPPLETHORPE: Have you ever seen the X, Y, Z Portfolios?

1:34:42 > 1:34:46There's an X portfolio, which is sex pictures.

1:34:46 > 1:34:48There's 13 of them.

1:34:48 > 1:34:50Then there's Y, which is flowers.

1:34:50 > 1:34:52And there's Z, which is blacks.

1:34:52 > 1:34:57He was particularly interested in showing the X, Y, Z series,

1:34:57 > 1:35:01which had not been shown before in its entirety.

1:35:01 > 1:35:04Maybe interesting to have a wall where you have a row

1:35:04 > 1:35:09of X, Y and Z all in one mass, or in three rows or something.

1:35:09 > 1:35:11We devised a way of displaying them

1:35:11 > 1:35:15in a case that would be so high

1:35:15 > 1:35:17that a child could not see into it.

1:35:18 > 1:35:20But an adult could look down upon it.

1:35:20 > 1:35:23I remember showing my husband some of the pictures

1:35:23 > 1:35:27before the exhibition opened.

1:35:27 > 1:35:29He said, "Janet, do you know what you're doing?"

1:35:29 > 1:35:31But I didn't listen to him.

1:35:31 > 1:35:33Maybe I was crazy!

1:35:39 > 1:35:41Hi, Robert. Here we are.

1:35:41 > 1:35:44You are with us.

1:35:44 > 1:35:46You're with us and we're with you.

1:35:47 > 1:35:52I think you can tell whether a show is successful

1:35:52 > 1:35:54by the sound in the gallery.

1:35:54 > 1:35:56If people are talking a lot,

1:35:56 > 1:35:59you know somehow the show just doesn't have it.

1:36:02 > 1:36:06In the Mapplethorpe show there was silence.

1:36:08 > 1:36:10You could hear a pin drop.

1:36:29 > 1:36:34This one time, it was a terrible night for Robert and he was almost

1:36:34 > 1:36:38hallucinating a bit and he ended up pulling out some of the IVs

1:36:38 > 1:36:42so I had blood dripping out of his arm, in IVs,

1:36:42 > 1:36:44and I had to, he... I know I had to clean him up.

1:36:44 > 1:36:46He'd shat in the bed.

1:36:46 > 1:36:48And I'm like, "Oh, my God."

1:36:48 > 1:36:52That night Robert looked at me teary eyed, crying,

1:36:52 > 1:36:54and said, "Oh, my God," he's like, "I'm dying."

1:36:58 > 1:37:01I'm dying. And...

1:37:01 > 1:37:02I had to say, "Yeah."

1:37:07 > 1:37:10What can I... I couldn't... I mean, yes.

1:37:20 > 1:37:24Robert gave a going away party for himself.

1:37:24 > 1:37:28A lavish cocktail party at his loft.

1:37:28 > 1:37:31Waiters walking around with silver trays

1:37:31 > 1:37:36with little tiny blini and caviar and champagne.

1:37:36 > 1:37:37It was very elegant.

1:37:49 > 1:37:52And Robert was sitting in the middle of the room.

1:37:52 > 1:37:55I walked up to him and kneeled down at his feet

1:37:55 > 1:37:57and came face-to-face with him.

1:37:57 > 1:38:01He said, "You still look so beautiful," and I said, "Thank you."

1:38:03 > 1:38:06I said, "Well, what do want me to do?"

1:38:06 > 1:38:09He said, "I want you to tell her everything.

1:38:09 > 1:38:11"Keep me alive."

1:38:17 > 1:38:20"March 8th. Well, this is it.

1:38:20 > 1:38:23"The last two days have been hell.

1:38:23 > 1:38:26"The funny part is not knowing how to say goodbye.

1:38:26 > 1:38:28"Letting go. Are words enough?"

1:38:30 > 1:38:32I was just like, come on, Robert,

1:38:32 > 1:38:35just like have a conversation with me and just say, you know,

1:38:35 > 1:38:39"I'm proud of you and keep it going," And, "just do good work."

1:38:41 > 1:38:43I never got it.

1:38:43 > 1:38:44Never got it.

1:38:49 > 1:38:52Some days yes, and some days no.

1:38:52 > 1:38:54You know, on a daily basis,

1:38:54 > 1:38:57I would say in any given day I'm happy part of the time

1:38:57 > 1:38:58and not the rest, you know.

1:38:58 > 1:39:02I think I'm a perfectionist and I think it's hard to be happy

1:39:02 > 1:39:05if you like things to be perfect cos things are not perfect.

1:39:20 > 1:39:23I don't know whether the television cameras can see it or not.

1:39:23 > 1:39:25I'm going to be fast enough with it that you can't.

1:39:25 > 1:39:27But I want senators to come over

1:39:27 > 1:39:29here, if they have any doubt,

1:39:29 > 1:39:31and look at the pictures.

1:39:32 > 1:39:35I don't even acknowledge that it's art.

1:39:37 > 1:39:40I don't even acknowledge that the fellow who did it was an artist.

1:39:40 > 1:39:41I think he was a jerk.

1:39:41 > 1:39:43- CHANTING:- Keep your hands off! Keep your hands off.

1:39:50 > 1:39:52This line is for two o'clock only.

1:39:52 > 1:39:55You need a pass to get in to see the exhibition.

1:40:07 > 1:40:10..it happened. What you're watching now is the Cincinnati police

1:40:10 > 1:40:11as they made their move today

1:40:11 > 1:40:13against the Contemporary Arts Center.

1:40:13 > 1:40:16They temporarily closed the controversial Robert Mapplethorpe

1:40:16 > 1:40:18exhibit that resulted in charges today against

1:40:18 > 1:40:21the Contemporary Arts Center and its director.

1:40:21 > 1:40:23It's an important exhibition,

1:40:23 > 1:40:25it's important for the city that it be seen here.

1:40:29 > 1:40:32It was suggested that I wear a bulletproof vest.

1:40:32 > 1:40:34There were the calls to the home or the calls to my office,

1:40:34 > 1:40:36saying we're going to kill your children.

1:41:12 > 1:41:15The art gallery and its director are charged with obscenity

1:41:15 > 1:41:19for exhibiting photographs by the late Robert Mapplethorpe.

1:41:22 > 1:41:25The jury took about two hours to come up with its decision.

1:41:25 > 1:41:27We the jury in this case find the defendant

1:41:27 > 1:41:30- not guilty of obscenity... - SPEECH DROWNED BY CHEERING

1:41:40 > 1:41:43Next up is the Robert Mapplethorpe flag,

1:41:43 > 1:41:46the great Star-Spangled Banner, gelatine silver print.

1:41:46 > 1:41:4848,000 now gets us going.

1:41:48 > 1:41:5148,000, 48,000. 55,000.

1:41:51 > 1:41:5360, 65,000. Thank you, ma'am.

1:41:53 > 1:41:55He was always giving me his work.

1:41:55 > 1:41:5670,000, with Caroline...

1:41:56 > 1:41:59I had at least half a dozen photographs and a collage.

1:41:59 > 1:42:0170,000...

1:42:01 > 1:42:03Don't ask me what I did with this, please,

1:42:03 > 1:42:05because if I kept it I wouldn't be here,

1:42:05 > 1:42:07I'd be in my villa in Tuscany.

1:42:08 > 1:42:10I can't discuss it. Too upsetting.

1:42:10 > 1:42:12Sold.

1:42:12 > 1:42:13I threw it away.

1:42:13 > 1:42:15- Sold.- When I moved.- Sold.

1:42:15 > 1:42:19I told this once to an art dealer and he said,

1:42:19 > 1:42:22"I can't believe that you didn't know that someone as ambitious

1:42:22 > 1:42:25"as Robert, as clearly as ambitious, wouldn't become famous.

1:42:25 > 1:42:28And I said that no-one could have imagined that photographs

1:42:28 > 1:42:31would be so valuable financially. Cos they weren't.

1:42:31 > 1:42:33No photographs were.

1:42:33 > 1:42:36It wasn't just that I couldn't imagine it, no-one could imagine it.

1:42:41 > 1:42:42Whatever it took...

1:42:45 > 1:42:48..to become Robert Mapplethorpe

1:42:48 > 1:42:54is what it was going to take, and it took his life to do it.

1:42:57 > 1:42:59Literally.

1:43:39 > 1:43:42Mapplethorpe by himself, the name is really great.

1:43:42 > 1:43:45- It's like Titian or...- Yeah. You know where to go.

1:43:45 > 1:43:48Just the name, that's all you need is the last name

1:43:48 > 1:43:50to recognise the artist. It's so clear and simple.

1:43:50 > 1:43:53What if you stacked three images into the...

1:43:54 > 1:43:57We can't have nudity on the street banners because of city regulations.

1:43:57 > 1:43:59So that's one point of discussion.

1:43:59 > 1:44:01Second is the colour.

1:44:01 > 1:44:04This is a mock-up of the invitation for our opening reception.

1:44:04 > 1:44:06The self portrait on the front,

1:44:06 > 1:44:07then the inside message.

1:44:07 > 1:44:10Then the RSVP card.

1:44:10 > 1:44:12It's just an innocuous flower,

1:44:12 > 1:44:14not anything that the Post Office would object to.

1:44:14 > 1:44:16I'm not planning to put a curtain, but I'm sure

1:44:16 > 1:44:20there will be some kind of warning on the gallery as people go in.

1:44:20 > 1:44:22Well, and with her holding her sculpture.

1:44:22 > 1:44:25- That was purposeful.- Yeah, so great.

1:44:25 > 1:44:28I wanted to put Louise Bourgeois holding her sculpture, Lafayette,

1:44:28 > 1:44:30which looks like a phallus,

1:44:30 > 1:44:33next to the picture of The Man In The Polyester Suit.

1:44:33 > 1:44:35Yes, with his actual phallus.

1:44:35 > 1:44:37It's a curatorial pun.