Edmund de Waal: Make Pots or Die

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:00:08. > :00:15.This programme contains some strong language.

:00:16. > :00:25.Edmund de Waal is an artist, write writer. A potter telling stories out

:00:26. > :00:32.of porcelain and making objects out of words. Some weird spectrum where

:00:33. > :00:40.words and objects are very, very, very closely aligned. His remarkable

:00:41. > :00:44.memoir, The Hare With The Amber Eyes, unravelled the journey of

:00:45. > :00:50.these tiny netsuke, telling a story that touched the hearts of millions

:00:51. > :00:55.and made his name worldwide. But now he's taking his pots to America, in

:00:56. > :01:02.the hope that he can finally unite his life as a writer and as a maker.

:01:03. > :01:07.It is the middle of the night terror, because what is screwing up

:01:08. > :01:12.in New York is about as bad as it gets. Imagine follows Edmund during

:01:13. > :01:42.an extraordinary year. I was in on second January throwing

:01:43. > :01:48.my first pots of the year and it felt pretty good. It felt like this

:01:49. > :01:58.is a year of very exciting things happening. It felt bloody terrifying

:01:59. > :02:04.at the same time. Edmund's pots used to occupy kitchen shelves and be

:02:05. > :02:10.held in the hand, used every day. Over 20 years the pots have become

:02:11. > :02:17.abstracted. They now occupy a different space, installed in their

:02:18. > :02:24.thousands. I am making a quartet to go along this huge wall. Of course

:02:25. > :02:33.there are mornings when it is just shit. Whose idea was it, who do you

:02:34. > :02:41.blame, we had this idea of making a quartet with 3,000 porcelain pots.

:02:42. > :02:49.The quartet will be the centre piece of a huge exhibition at the Gagosian

:02:50. > :02:53.Gallery in New York. Edmund's first show in America. But this year will

:02:54. > :02:58.not only be about making, there is a new book to write, and the legacy of

:02:59. > :03:10.The Hare With The Amber Eyes to deal with. There is this after afterlife

:03:11. > :03:20.of my last book, which is more under control now, but still keeps on

:03:21. > :03:25.coming back. How objects are handed on is all about story telling. I am

:03:26. > :03:29.giving you this because I love you, or because it was given to me,

:03:30. > :03:33.because I bought it somewhere special because you will care for t

:03:34. > :03:42.because it will comply Kate your life. Edmund has been making pots

:03:43. > :03:48.since he was five, and ceramics became an obsession. He was

:03:49. > :03:51.apprenticed at 17 making simple earthenware pots in the style of

:03:52. > :03:58.Bernard Laech and the Japanese masters. Edmund travelled to Japan

:03:59. > :04:06.in 19 81 to further his studies, and it was here that he would encounter

:04:07. > :04:14.the net suk for the very first time. For 264 netsuke were handed down

:04:15. > :04:19.through Edmund's family, the Ephrussis, they lost everything as

:04:20. > :04:25.Europe teetered on the brink of the Second World War. But against all

:04:26. > :04:30.odds, the net suk survived. -- netsuke survived. Where did The Hare

:04:31. > :04:35.With The Amber Eyes start? I sense somehow that started for you as a

:04:36. > :04:41.17-year-old boy in Japan when you visited your uncle Iggy there? Yes,

:04:42. > :04:48.going into his apartment for the first time and being given my first

:04:49. > :04:53.whisky soda by this lovely elderly gentleman, there they were, this

:04:54. > :04:59.vitrine of objects. I hated them, I thought they were really fiddly,

:05:00. > :05:07.precious little objects that didn't anything, they were like bijoux

:05:08. > :05:11.little things. I was there to make earthy dynamic Japanese pots. What

:05:12. > :05:17.were these little fiddly things doing? Iggy took the net suk back to

:05:18. > :05:25.Japan in 1947 when he moved there after the war. He said he was taking

:05:26. > :05:30.them home. How did you come to love the netsuke? The fact they were so

:05:31. > :05:37.significant to him, of course changed my relationship with them.

:05:38. > :05:41.Later on, 13, 14 years later, I was back in Japan for another year, I

:05:42. > :05:45.used to go and see him all the time, he was pretty elderly, and stories

:05:46. > :05:51.used to start the whole time, and then trail off. Iggy would be

:05:52. > :05:53.reading in his arm chair by the window, I would bend down and he

:05:54. > :06:06.would give me a kiss. He used to open up the vitrine and

:06:07. > :06:11.get things out and that was very generative of his stories about

:06:12. > :06:15.childhood and Vienna and these things, with this extraordinary

:06:16. > :06:24.bridge, between this man and his stories. He would pass me one and we

:06:25. > :06:28.would look at it together and then I put it carefully back amongst the

:06:29. > :06:33.dozens of animals and figures on the shelves. I tell you, ehe would say,

:06:34. > :06:39.how much we loved these as children. How they were given to my mother and

:06:40. > :06:45.father by a cousin in Paris. Did I tell you the story of Anna's pocket.

:06:46. > :06:50.They do lead you through touch to lots of other experiences. They

:06:51. > :06:58.bring ideas and feelings together. Of course, these ones, these hold

:06:59. > :07:02.extraordinary amount of other people's touch within them. That's

:07:03. > :07:07.something that I really am very passionate about, the idea that you

:07:08. > :07:11.can read other people's lives through objects. It is interesting

:07:12. > :07:18.that Iggy has a story, but he only has so much of a story. He only has

:07:19. > :07:26.so much. I didn't interview him for God's sake. He gives me, in this

:07:27. > :07:30.wonderful fragmentary way, he tells me stories around them. And he

:07:31. > :07:35.doesn't know a huge amount about what happened before. All he knows

:07:36. > :07:42.is they came from Paris, from this extraordinary cousin.

:07:43. > :07:50.These were collected by Charles Ephrussi. He was a cousin of my

:07:51. > :07:58.great, great grandfather. Charles was a tremendously interesting art

:07:59. > :08:07.critic. Art collector. Lover of people. This is the boating party by

:08:08. > :08:14.Renoir, and there at the back is Charles Ephrussi, friend and patron

:08:15. > :08:20.to the impressionists. He collected paintings by Manet, Degas and Monet

:08:21. > :08:30.and became the model for Marcel proous's Charles Swann. They are

:08:31. > :08:35.huge hugely seductive things. You pick them up, you roll them in your

:08:36. > :08:40.hands, you pass them round. Pass them to your lover, you pass them to

:08:41. > :08:50.a dinner guest, you pass them to some poet who is there by chance.

:08:51. > :08:56.Because they are little eroticised things to start conversations.

:08:57. > :09:01.Charles actually gives it away to this very beloved cousin of his, a

:09:02. > :09:06.younger man who is getting married, who happens to be my great

:09:07. > :09:11.grandfather, victor. Then they go to Vienna. So these little things go to

:09:12. > :09:24.this very big place. That is the next part of the story.

:09:25. > :09:35.Tomorrow Edmund is off to ven NARCs he is giving a talk on the Achelous,

:09:36. > :09:47.the effects of restitution on the art world and what is happening in

:09:48. > :09:50.Austria now. 75 years since the Achelous, since Hitler walked into

:09:51. > :09:58.Austria and was met by cheering crowds. Austria capitulated in this

:09:59. > :10:04.extraordinary way. It was a cataclysm for Vienna and it couldn't

:10:05. > :10:09.be a more charged moment to do a talk about restitution and memory

:10:10. > :10:26.and what it all means. I haven't slept for a week.

:10:27. > :10:34.Actually here in the Belvedere, they have three contested pictures

:10:35. > :10:38.belonging to my father. Three pictures that were in the family

:10:39. > :10:50.collection in 1938, in that building there. Of which there is issues why

:10:51. > :10:59.they are not being rest tuted. Iify family were Jewish and staggeringly

:11:00. > :11:02.rich. I want to know what the relationship has been between this

:11:03. > :11:08.wooden object that I am rolling between my fingers, hard and tricky

:11:09. > :11:11.and Japanese, and where it has been. I want to know what it has

:11:12. > :11:29.witnessed. I kaem here, I was really scared and

:11:30. > :11:32.and there was an office here, and I was asking permission to come into

:11:33. > :11:41.the house and it felt so unreal to be actually in this place. The house

:11:42. > :11:45.is too big to absorb, taking up too much space in this part of the city,

:11:46. > :11:51.too much sky. It is more of a fortress or watch tower than a

:11:52. > :11:57.house. It is certainly not a house for a wandering Jew.

:11:58. > :12:04.How about this, I don't know when a last time a member of the family was

:12:05. > :12:06.on this balcony. You have to imagine 75 years ago what was happening on

:12:07. > :12:20.those nights. I had to go to places, I had to

:12:21. > :12:27.experience the places, I had to find out more and more. Not just through

:12:28. > :12:34.books, but through being in places and trying to find the traces of

:12:35. > :12:41.where the family were and what was left. In Paris, Vienna and all these

:12:42. > :12:48.other places. It became more and more complex, and of course much,

:12:49. > :12:53.much darker. It is on that first night that the sounds of the street

:12:54. > :12:57.become shouting in the Ephrussi courtyard, echoing around the walls

:12:58. > :13:02.and off the roof. Then there are feet pounding up the stairs, the 33

:13:03. > :13:11.shallow steps to the apartment on the second floor. They are inside

:13:12. > :13:18.now at last. This is how the Jews live. This is how the Jews used our

:13:19. > :13:27.money, room after room, stacked with stuff. And these are just a few

:13:28. > :13:37.souvenirs, a bit of redistribution. This is the start. They drag the

:13:38. > :13:42.desk out into the corridor, and they push Emmy and victor and Rudolf

:13:43. > :13:48.against the wall and three of them heave the desk and send it crashing

:13:49. > :13:53.over the hand rail until, with a sound of splintering wood and guilt

:13:54. > :14:06.and marquetry, it hits the stone flags of the courtyard below. This

:14:07. > :14:09.is the window they threw the desk. And the sounds ricochet off the

:14:10. > :14:17.glass roof and the broken drawers scatter letters across the

:14:18. > :14:23.courtyard. You think you onus, you'll be next, you fern shits. --

:14:24. > :14:34.foreign shits. Three years after being published,

:14:35. > :14:39.The Hare With The Amber Eyes with is still sense and has been translated

:14:40. > :14:48.into 22 languages. Edmund de Waal is no longer just a potter. He is also

:14:49. > :14:54.a world-famous writer. Immediately I am in conversation with lots of

:14:55. > :15:01.people. I wonder whether you would come to Zurich, where I live? I have

:15:02. > :15:13.Jewish friends, and it would be marvellous. It is not just elderly

:15:14. > :15:17.diasporic Jew ish Jewish community. My generation who have grown up

:15:18. > :15:22.knowing absolutely nothing and I have broken through that, so of

:15:23. > :15:26.course that's been kind of interesting for my generation, of

:15:27. > :15:32.people who simply don't know where they came from.

:15:33. > :15:41.What writing this did was to make me feel that there were, that I was

:15:42. > :15:45.able to occupy a space that bigger narratives were possible and there

:15:46. > :15:50.couldn't be a bigger narrative than this particular story, which comes

:15:51. > :15:59.from very small objects, but becomes this very complex inhabited space,

:16:00. > :16:03.series of spaces, in a book. That weirdly, being able to discover that

:16:04. > :16:05.I could do that, actually has also allowed me to work on a bigger

:16:06. > :16:20.scale. With what I make. In a couple of hours I will have

:16:21. > :16:28.made 200 of these. I suspect I need to makes 600 of them. My back is

:16:29. > :16:33.slightly counting those hours. As the pots for the exhibition begin to

:16:34. > :16:40.pile up, the need for more space has become critical. We are completely

:16:41. > :16:46.stuffed. This is why we are so desperate to move. I am working

:16:47. > :16:53.here, we have crates of things in, crates of things out. We have scale

:16:54. > :17:02.models, galleries in New York, we are just completely full. We just

:17:03. > :17:14.can't wait to move. Where do things get stored? I don't know.

:17:15. > :17:26.We have archive, this is the archive of all work going back to when I was

:17:27. > :17:43.apprenticed. Years and years and years ago, a pot that I made in 19-

:17:44. > :17:49.the National Gallery wants to borrow the photo album of this ball that my

:17:50. > :17:55.great grandmother went to in 19 00. I don't know where the fuck it is,

:17:56. > :17:59.it is somewhere here! I have got to a different place,

:18:00. > :18:04.where the work and scale of things, and the capacity of projects and to

:18:05. > :18:10.write and think and do all that stuff as well as make, very big

:18:11. > :18:19.installations in a garage down the road, I was completely screwed. I

:18:20. > :18:24.had to find a bigger space. The new space is a former gun factory in

:18:25. > :18:28.South London, a pleasingly destructive back story for a

:18:29. > :18:32.porcelain studio. We have moved into the new studio, it is really

:18:33. > :18:40.exciting. We have spent the last week unpacking.

:18:41. > :18:56.Over the last week I have got terribly excited by Paul Celan, the

:18:57. > :19:16.Romanian born German poet. There is an extraordinary thing

:19:17. > :19:23.about breathing and poetry and what it can and can't do. We have worked

:19:24. > :19:25.out the shape of the show in terms of words. So it's brilliant

:19:26. > :19:44.actually. Is it an accident that Paul Celan,

:19:45. > :19:47.the inspiration for this work, that Paul Celan also sounds like

:19:48. > :19:58.porcelain? It is beautiful, isn't it. We can claim that, I don't know.

:19:59. > :20:04.It's pure beautiful accident. Paul Celan, a Romanian Jew survived the

:20:05. > :20:08.Holocaust though his parents died in a labour camp. Celan's poetry can be

:20:09. > :20:10.seen as a response to the Holocaust but it is also a challenge to the

:20:11. > :20:30.poetic and to language itself. What is so extraordinary about these

:20:31. > :20:34.is that they are very short poems and lots and lots and white space,

:20:35. > :20:39.they are always moving towards the fragment or away from the fragment.

:20:40. > :20:43.So there is a sense of how do you shape anything in the world, how do

:20:44. > :20:49.you finish anything? Everything moves towards the fragmentary or

:20:50. > :20:56.jagged or uncompleted or lost. Quite a lot of the work in this

:20:57. > :21:02.exhibition, which I am really struggling with, is about you make

:21:03. > :21:07.something and you want it to be beautiful and lyrical. But you also

:21:08. > :21:20.want it to kind of have lots and lots of space for all the loss.

:21:21. > :21:29.That work over there, that's got a musical reference. I heard it said,

:21:30. > :21:36.it's called and it's 12 vitrines each with five very simple objects

:21:37. > :21:46.in it and it's like conversation with early music of Burg. When I

:21:47. > :21:52.walk along that in the morning, I hear it as a piece of music and

:21:53. > :22:01.other people are going to go for God's sake, it's just pots, but for

:22:02. > :22:09.me that's musical. I absolutely hear it and when I write something, it

:22:10. > :22:30.has a shape. Words and objects are very, very closely aligned.

:22:31. > :22:42.What do you think Isla? There's almost always muse music when I am

:22:43. > :22:51.making and sometimes when I am writing, too.

:22:52. > :22:59.It gives me more space. Repetition isn't about repeating the same

:23:00. > :23:06.thing, it is about minute differences. Between each moment,

:23:07. > :23:16.between each sound, tweech each object that you are making. It gives

:23:17. > :23:26.you a kind of much steadier way of thinking through ideas. Doesn't that

:23:27. > :23:34.make you want to make things. How can it not make you want to make

:23:35. > :23:39.things. The quartet isn't Edmund's only challenge this year. His

:23:40. > :23:47.publisher is expecting the Manu script of his new book in 18 months'

:23:48. > :23:52.time. The Hare took him seven years. Tell me about the book which is your

:23:53. > :23:59.other big project this year. Well, this year! And forward. It is a

:24:00. > :24:04.journey through white. It is a personal journey through the

:24:05. > :24:09.discovery of porcelain 1,000 years ago, China and this great

:24:10. > :24:13.reinvention of it. In the 18th century in Europe. It is really

:24:14. > :24:18.about obsession. Really about what white means, why people obsess about

:24:19. > :24:23.it, what white does to people. And what white displaces in the world

:24:24. > :24:27.when it pushes away from it. It is a strong pulse of going and looking in

:24:28. > :24:30.archives and going and talking to people, trying to excavate where

:24:31. > :24:46.white happens. While the pots are being glazed for

:24:47. > :24:54.the Gagosian show, Edmund is on a research trip for the new book, with

:24:55. > :24:59.his son Matthew. They are looking for the very first piece of pours

:25:00. > :25:07.lain that knead from east to west, brought to Venice by Marco Polo. We

:25:08. > :25:13.are in Venice because- for seven reasons, the real reason is to be

:25:14. > :25:23.here with him. With Matthew. He is reading Terry Pratchett. We are on a

:25:24. > :25:28.trip to try and see whether we can find this extraordinary bowl. It is

:25:29. > :25:35.a really good story, it is supposed to have been carried back by Marco

:25:36. > :25:43.Polo in 1175 or something like that. No-one admits to having it. Marco

:25:44. > :25:47.Polo was Matthew's age when he arrived in China with his father and

:25:48. > :25:51.saw porcelain being made for the very first time. Little did he know

:25:52. > :25:57.the impact the material was going to have when it arrived in Europe. You

:25:58. > :26:01.could say how could a bowl not fit into the new book because it is

:26:02. > :26:06.exactly about objects in transit, it is about the hidden stories of

:26:07. > :26:13.objects that have moved from one place to another. Marco Polo is the

:26:14. > :26:16.risk Road. Edmund has been try to go trace this porcelain for over a year

:26:17. > :26:27.and there's no certainty he will find it here in Venice. The question

:26:28. > :26:36.is whether or not it is a myth or whether there is some Reality to it.

:26:37. > :26:46.This is amazing. You have everything here, which is tremendous.

:26:47. > :26:52.It's one thing amongst many but it is very, very particular because it

:26:53. > :26:57.holds Marco Polo, it holds that story of travel within it. I really

:26:58. > :27:05.have to find it. This is the Treasury. This is it.

:27:06. > :27:27.It's there. I'm desperate to pick it up. This is Marco Polo and he brings

:27:28. > :27:35.it back all the way with camels and dock kiss and horses and -- donkeys,

:27:36. > :27:40.across the whole of the world, through Constantinople and takes a

:27:41. > :27:49.boat back down to Venice and unpacks his treasures which are

:27:50. > :27:59.extraordinary objects. This is kind of a crazy attempt to find where

:28:00. > :28:03.white comes from and so this is kind of iconic, this is one of the very,

:28:04. > :28:09.very special bits of white coming from one place and ending up

:28:10. > :28:16.somewhere else completely, utterly, amazingly different, that's got the

:28:17. > :28:21.story in it. There's no time to celebrate their discovery. Edmund

:28:22. > :28:26.has to get ready to give a talk about The Hare With The Amber Eyes.

:28:27. > :28:29.Tonight is the Venice Litary Festival. I have to go to the

:28:30. > :28:38.Palazzo Grassi and talk. I want to go and sit with a beer and

:28:39. > :28:51.that is not going to happen tonight. How do you start? You start by

:28:52. > :28:58.taking an object out of your pocket and you put it down in front of you

:28:59. > :29:04.and you begin to tell a story. And because of you I have brought two

:29:05. > :29:21.objects, and I want them back. But pass them round, this is 17 70.

:29:22. > :29:29.Like the Netsuke Edmund's own work is displayed in vitrines.

:29:30. > :29:35.Collections of objects held together in time and space. Back at the

:29:36. > :29:41.studio, he begins to install the quartet for the Gagosian show. We

:29:42. > :29:45.might need to have very loud Steve Reich on, just to move away from the

:29:46. > :29:59.thinking bit. Each of those tiny pots, seven

:30:00. > :30:05.movements. I picked up a knife and cut them five times, and then the

:30:06. > :30:13.single mark of my seal at the end, letting it go. Each of those is a

:30:14. > :30:18.number, but not the sort of ghastly code codified formulaic things at

:30:19. > :30:28.all. It is a pacing through the world. For reason at all there

:30:29. > :30:35.should be the same number or density of things on the same shelve.

:30:36. > :30:43.With those 3,000 pots, months and months of work, hours and hours,

:30:44. > :30:47.hundreds of hours of work, then I can retime myself in the work by

:30:48. > :30:57.making different kinds of spaces. But if I hadn't done that, if I had

:30:58. > :31:02.said, you know what I need to make 1476 pots and thags ae into four

:31:03. > :31:19.because there is a quartet, it's dead, it's dead before you begin.

:31:20. > :31:25.Not everything in Edmund's life is white. For the New York show he's

:31:26. > :31:32.been making a series of new works in black. These pots share their story

:31:33. > :31:37.with the very beginnings of white. And Edmund's new book. He is in

:31:38. > :31:42.Germany where the very first European porcelain was made. Solving

:31:43. > :31:49.what was considered to be one of a great mysteries of the age. Dresden,

:31:50. > :31:52.this extraordinary place, incredible place where black porcelain becomes

:31:53. > :32:10.white porcelain. You have to think back 300 years.

:32:11. > :32:16.And you are a collector. What is the thing that is the most esoteric and

:32:17. > :32:22.the most rare rarified, the thing that tells you that is most special,

:32:23. > :32:27.has this aura around it. It is porcelain. What do you do? You find

:32:28. > :32:36.people who can tell you all the time, I can make t I'm great, and

:32:37. > :32:46.they all fail. Then you come across an alchemist who tells you that he

:32:47. > :32:52.can do it. That is what this journey is about. It is in search of this

:32:53. > :33:00.particular man, this particular alchemist who said, do you know

:33:01. > :33:07.what, I can do it. He told Augustus the Strong he could do it and was

:33:08. > :33:12.locked up. He was locked up. With this enormous terrible threat

:33:13. > :33:21.hanging over him. The threat was make porcelain or die. That should

:33:22. > :33:29.be hanging above our own work shop actually!

:33:30. > :33:35.Augustus the Strong was the greatest patron of the arts in Europe during

:33:36. > :33:42.the early 18th century. He commissioned whole palaces to house

:33:43. > :33:47.his collections. For Edmund, the demands of obsessive collectors is

:33:48. > :33:52.familiar territory. You wouldn't think this had any relationship at

:33:53. > :33:58.all to what is going on in south lon doen but it kind of does. Porcelain

:33:59. > :34:05.doesn't begin in the West, with white things. It begins with this,

:34:06. > :34:09.it begins with someone who works out that if you fire high enough, with

:34:10. > :34:16.the right materials and put them together, you can produce something

:34:17. > :34:25.as hard adds a gem stone, but it's not white.

:34:26. > :34:32.Augustus the strong, this nightmare obsessional man, just screaming

:34:33. > :34:39.away, why isn't it white? This is the great case that you have got the

:34:40. > :34:43.first pieces of porcelain. When he starts to do his work, he can't get

:34:44. > :34:48.there, so the surfaces are pitted and there is a greyish sheen. What

:34:49. > :34:53.you see here is someone who is actually trying to work something

:34:54. > :35:00.out. Look at this fantastic covered bowl

:35:01. > :35:06.here, with this pierced decoration and it is completely screwed.

:35:07. > :35:11.Completely shot to pieces. It's got all the cracks where the making has

:35:12. > :35:15.happened, the glaze hasn't fitted the body and it has been presented

:35:16. > :35:18.to Augustus the Strong and he said fine, something that is completely

:35:19. > :35:29.wrong, he actually knows, it actually is going to work. By 1713

:35:30. > :35:38.he can make white porcelain, he can say to Augustus, I can do it, I can

:35:39. > :35:45.do this thing now. That is when it gets really, really complicated.

:35:46. > :35:53.This is the Disney moment for porcelain. This is just complete

:35:54. > :35:57.completely utterly ridiculous. This isn't about the collectors, it is

:35:58. > :36:02.about the collector's palace, it is not about the vitrine in the back

:36:03. > :36:12.corridor, this is about the whole world in porcelain, now. Here is

:36:13. > :36:16.this sad bear. This is about bringing one material from right the

:36:17. > :36:21.way across the world, reinventing it and then discovering what you are

:36:22. > :36:26.going to do with it. It is about completely about space, about how

:36:27. > :36:31.much space porcelain can take up and in this case, a lot of space, so of

:36:32. > :36:36.course how can I not be excited by that. That is what I am try to go

:36:37. > :36:42.do, occupy a lot of the world through porcelain and it happens

:36:43. > :36:46.here first. Every time you come away from a research trip you feel like

:36:47. > :36:50.you have found something and you realise beyond that thing you found

:36:51. > :37:05.are months and months and months of research. I pray my publishers

:37:06. > :37:07.aren't watching this because God knows how long I am going to take

:37:08. > :37:18.with this book. Research for the book has to be put

:37:19. > :37:25.to one side, as the studio prepares for a visit from some tiny potters.

:37:26. > :37:30.My daughter's primary school, 60-odd kids are going to be making pots

:37:31. > :37:39.here. The story we are going to tell is going to be a story about a

:37:40. > :37:48.journey. Here we've got images of journeys. Does anyone recognise any

:37:49. > :37:55.of them? Favouritism, Emma, start us off. James and the Giant Peach. The

:37:56. > :38:08.Gagosian works all around, we are making a big installation today.

:38:09. > :38:19.It is a big strawberry. As you can see, there are lots and lots of

:38:20. > :38:35.them, one of your jobs is to count my pots. 71, 72, 73... Thank you.

:38:36. > :38:46.Having survived the school trip, the quartet is packed away and shipped

:38:47. > :38:51.out. Once he has decided on how he wants the pots to be, we are marking

:38:52. > :38:55.each shelve A, b, c, d, with a number as well, so we know the

:38:56. > :39:01.number of pots, which shelve it should be on and on the shelve we

:39:02. > :39:05.have mark marked like an invisible ring which is transparent varnish,

:39:06. > :39:14.which will mark the exact position of the pot. I can't find the

:39:15. > :39:22.singlearity of something without looking at an awful lot of objects,

:39:23. > :39:28.so I can't under understand a Chinese bowl without walking up a

:39:29. > :39:37.hillside full of thousands and thousands of fragmentary shardz of

:39:38. > :39:44.pots. That idea of the abundance or the uncountability, of the world is

:39:45. > :40:01.also really poetic. Nowhere in the world is the historic

:40:02. > :40:06.porcelain in greater abundance than in the archives of the V in

:40:07. > :40:10.London. After the extravagance of Dresden, Edmund is looking for the

:40:11. > :40:17.hummable beginnings of white here in England. We are here because this is

:40:18. > :40:21.me searching for extraordinary man William Cookworthy. He goes on this

:40:22. > :40:26.journey and discovers how to make porcelain and this is the first true

:40:27. > :40:31.porcelain in England, and I have never had it in my hands, so this is

:40:32. > :40:42.my moment of what is it like, I just don't know. It's fantastic. We have

:40:43. > :40:45.others that are stained to a nicotined brown, they had such

:40:46. > :40:52.problems. I love this, I have only seen these in books, because I

:40:53. > :40:58.always imagined Cookworthy trying to make impeckible European porcelain

:40:59. > :41:04.objects and it isn't quite! We have a cow. It is an object of ambition

:41:05. > :41:10.but not of great beauty. If you think about Augustus the Strong

:41:11. > :41:13.surrounded by this music and life-sized porcelain figures and you

:41:14. > :41:21.have Cookworthy making his cow sitting amongst daysies.

:41:22. > :41:28.It is now just one month until the New York show, but William

:41:29. > :41:36.Cookworthy has inspired one last research trip. We are in Cornwall in

:41:37. > :41:43.search of the place where Cookworthy first found the materials that could

:41:44. > :41:50.make porcelain. Tregonning Hill. God knows where it is. I thought it was

:41:51. > :41:57.a proper hill. All I can see is suburbia.

:41:58. > :42:12.This is a proper Cornish map. Everything here says shafts (dis)

:42:13. > :42:16.and quarries. The whole landscape is shot through with the remnants of

:42:17. > :42:23.mining. This whole landscape up there is basically due to Cookworthy

:42:24. > :42:26.discovering China clay. We are at the end of the world here. So far

:42:27. > :42:31.from anything else. This is where the material is, you have to dig up

:42:32. > :42:39.to make these pots and you have to get it off this bloody hillside. The

:42:40. > :42:43.whole thing starts out in incredibly primitive way and you have to

:42:44. > :42:53.remember how incredibly poor Cornwall is. It was medieval mining,

:42:54. > :42:59.just with a shovel. Absolutely basic. Not content with just seeing

:43:00. > :43:06.Cookworthy porcelain in archives, Edmund has started his own

:43:07. > :43:12.collection. The moment of complete I had yosy, I brought this -- idiocy,

:43:13. > :43:17.I brought this, a bit of Cookworthy porcelain. I am repatriating it,

:43:18. > :43:25.speckly and full of bits that haven't burnt out properly. Sod it,

:43:26. > :43:30.it's beautiful. For Edmund, this little pot holds the story of white

:43:31. > :43:38.in England. It is important to hold and understand as the netsuke his

:43:39. > :43:44.uncle Iggy left him. What of William Cookworthy and his great break

:43:45. > :43:52.through? Porcelain didn't work for him. He made no money at all out of

:43:53. > :43:55.porcelain. I never managed to work out how to turn his intuition into

:43:56. > :44:08.industry. The show is imminent. Edmund is

:44:09. > :44:11.about to leave for New York. It is a different scale, it is a different

:44:12. > :44:21.audience. It is a very tough audience.

:44:22. > :44:30.I am doing work which is about the speechless speechlessness, silence,

:44:31. > :44:37.about the fragmentary, about Europeanness. People there who have

:44:38. > :44:46.read my book are going to be baffled by the fact that I am a maker, an

:44:47. > :44:50.artist. It's middle of the night terror to be honest, because, you

:44:51. > :44:54.know what, screwing up in New York is about as bad as it gets. Everyone

:44:55. > :45:14.knows. We are here, I am an artist and I

:45:15. > :45:20.have an exhibition. Hello Mark, I am in transit towards you and the

:45:21. > :45:27.exhibition. You plan and plan and plan, and then it becomes something

:45:28. > :45:35.else. It's out of your control, which is kind of good, difficult

:45:36. > :45:39.sometimes. Here we are, at Gagosian. I am on the bloody side walk, how

:45:40. > :45:46.fantastic. Atemwende. Hi, I am Edmund. I am so excited. Oh

:45:47. > :46:07.my God. Welcome to New York. Hello. You won't get much sense out of me

:46:08. > :46:30.for at least half an hour, I am afraid. That's OK!

:46:31. > :46:38.Gsdz What's the worst that can happen? You get a shitty review,

:46:39. > :46:43.people don't like it, nothing sells. None of those are terrible things to

:46:44. > :46:50.happen. The terrible thing to happen is for it not to leave the studio.

:46:51. > :47:00.This is me pretending that I am really busy trying to keep out of

:47:01. > :47:10.everyone's way. While mayhem descends. I have a cafe latte with

:47:11. > :47:17.four shorts of espresso in it to keep me going for the next hour!

:47:18. > :47:22.This show is by far the biggest show I have ever done. It is by far the

:47:23. > :47:29.most ambitious show I have done, but it is also the show where I have

:47:30. > :47:35.really gone public. It is very exposing for me, because I also

:47:36. > :47:40.write and it is this show is very much more open to the way in which I

:47:41. > :47:51.write things and the way in which I make sculpture.

:47:52. > :47:58.After all the months of work, the show is finally ready. Edmund's

:47:59. > :48:04.wife, Sue, has arrived in New York, just in time to steal a few quiet

:48:05. > :48:11.moments with her husband. Have they got a light well behind them as

:48:12. > :48:17.well. Perspex. In America, Plexiglas. I like Perspex better.

:48:18. > :48:30.No-one understands what Perspex s you have to say Plexiglas.

:48:31. > :48:41.I have tears in my eyes, my dear. It's beautiful.

:48:42. > :48:53.It's been quite a while. For me getting to this point.

:48:54. > :49:02.Completely beautiful. But also I love these because they are back to

:49:03. > :49:26.words and poetry and spaces. It is a poem, that one. It's a poem.

:49:27. > :49:36.September 12th, the day of the opening of the Gagosian on Madison

:49:37. > :49:42.Avenue. This is the most influential commercial gallery in the world. And

:49:43. > :49:54.yes, Larry Gagosian, the don of the New York arts scene is here to see

:49:55. > :50:04.how Edmund fares. Edmund de Waal. We expected you to have the netsuke.

:50:05. > :50:08.Thank you for writing such a beautiful book, I read it last week,

:50:09. > :50:14.I was devastated and loved it and it was gorgeous. Like many of the

:50:15. > :50:17.people here, curators, collectors, seriously wealthy, Larry Gagosian

:50:18. > :50:26.read the book and loved it so he took a gamble on a show by an

:50:27. > :50:36.English potter. Some of these works have already sold for hundreds of

:50:37. > :50:41.thousands of dollars. It is a little overwhelming. One of the things that

:50:42. > :50:47.interests me about this show is to try to figure out how we would react

:50:48. > :50:51.if we hadn't read The Hare With The Amber Eyes, what would these objects

:50:52. > :50:57.mean to us and in some way, what I find quite interesting is that you

:50:58. > :51:04.feel a a need, an urgency to touch them. Looking at these objects is

:51:05. > :51:10.sort of taking your breath away. This is where it all is. This is

:51:11. > :51:18.where it all... It is such a beautiful space. Looking at them

:51:19. > :51:30.earlier, there are so many ways you can look at this work. It is rather

:51:31. > :51:36.extraordinary. Congratulations to you. I am so thrilled for Edmund. It

:51:37. > :51:42.is the most beautiful show he's ever done. Atemwende is a real

:51:43. > :51:48.masterpiece and I feel so excited when I see it, because I know where

:51:49. > :51:56.it started. I feel very warmly welcomed to New York. How objects

:51:57. > :52:01.get handled, used and handed on is not just a mildly interesting

:52:02. > :52:08.question for me, but is my question, I have made many thousands of pots

:52:09. > :52:13.and very bad at names, but I am good on pots. I can read how an edge

:52:14. > :52:18.creates tension or loses it. I can feel if it has been made at speed or

:52:19. > :52:23.with diligence. If it has warmth. I can see how it works with the

:52:24. > :52:24.objects that sit nearby, how it displaces a small part of the world

:52:25. > :52:36.around it. You started making pots when you

:52:37. > :52:41.were five-years-old. And you are now in your 50th year this week. Thanks,

:52:42. > :52:47.you are the first person to put it in those terms. Yes. You have been

:52:48. > :52:52.making pots for 45 years. I have been making pots for 45 years, yes.

:52:53. > :53:01.I don't know, this year has been- one of the things about this year

:53:02. > :53:09.has been working out that I can, a sort of confidence to really just go

:53:10. > :53:15.for it. Just simply say this is what I do. This is what I do.