Hitler, the Tiger and Me

Download Subtitles

Transcript

0:00:02 > 0:00:03Come on then, Puss, come on.

0:00:05 > 0:00:06Come on, then.

0:00:24 > 0:00:26AIR RAID SIREN

0:00:40 > 0:00:41CHILD SCREAMS

0:00:41 > 0:00:45- It's come to see you.- Oh, hello, hello then. It is the other one.

0:00:45 > 0:00:46They take it in turns.

0:00:46 > 0:00:50Judith Kerr is one of our best loved children's writers and illustrators.

0:00:53 > 0:00:54She was born in Berlin,

0:00:54 > 0:00:58but had to flee with her family from the Nazis when she was nine.

0:00:59 > 0:01:02The dangers she has been through in life lie under

0:01:02 > 0:01:03the surface of her fiction.

0:01:04 > 0:01:08Yet she creates a warm, safe world we can all respond to.

0:01:09 > 0:01:14She has just turned 90 and has published a memoir, Creatures.

0:01:16 > 0:01:20She is being feted in Britain where she has lived all her adult life.

0:01:20 > 0:01:23She is one of the great writers of children's literature,

0:01:23 > 0:01:27and not just in this country but throughout the world.

0:01:27 > 0:01:31She is a remarkable lady who has had the most remarkable life.

0:01:33 > 0:01:37And in that life, which has not been easy,

0:01:37 > 0:01:43she has produced the most extraordinary range of books.

0:01:43 > 0:01:46Please, welcome the wonderful Judith Kerr!

0:01:46 > 0:01:48CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

0:02:20 > 0:02:23# Happy birthday to you

0:02:23 > 0:02:26# Happy birthday to you

0:02:26 > 0:02:30# Happy birthday dear Judith

0:02:30 > 0:02:35# Happy birthday to you! #

0:02:37 > 0:02:39She is totally unique.

0:02:41 > 0:02:45Her writing and her books are her absolute life.

0:02:45 > 0:02:49She is absolutely devoted to it.

0:02:49 > 0:02:52And she writes during the morning, then she has a little break

0:02:52 > 0:02:56for lunch, and I think a little sip of Martini,

0:02:56 > 0:02:59because she says it gives her a bit of sugar,

0:02:59 > 0:03:04and then she finishes like early evening and that is her regime.

0:03:04 > 0:03:06And she sticks to it.

0:03:07 > 0:03:11And she does an evening walk all the way around Barnes.

0:03:11 > 0:03:16It is over an hour's walk and there she is striding along, fantastic.

0:03:26 > 0:03:28Toadstools.

0:03:38 > 0:03:42She is always walking down to the shops much faster than I ever do,

0:03:42 > 0:03:44rushing past us. I say, "Judith, hang on a minute."

0:03:44 > 0:03:47"Oh, OK," and she slows down and you have a chat.

0:03:47 > 0:03:50And we talk about all sorts of lovely things.

0:03:50 > 0:03:54She was our children's favourite authoress.

0:03:54 > 0:03:58All the Mog books, The Tiger Who Came To Tea,

0:03:58 > 0:04:01we've read vigorously, and excitedly every night,

0:04:01 > 0:04:04so she's very much part of our lives.

0:04:06 > 0:04:11We don't know that whole hinterland that Judith has.

0:04:11 > 0:04:14It was a nightmarish time that she came from.

0:04:14 > 0:04:18But this is a wonderful resource for children's writer.

0:04:19 > 0:04:22At these publishing dos, she is always the person

0:04:22 > 0:04:23I want to talk to

0:04:23 > 0:04:28because she is the most fun person there, usually.

0:04:28 > 0:04:33She is so much in the present. She is not living in the past.

0:04:33 > 0:04:36She has an immediate reaction to things.

0:04:36 > 0:04:43That's what makes her feel like such an optimistic person.

0:04:43 > 0:04:46She is kind of squeezing every ounce out of the day.

0:04:50 > 0:04:54Hey, Judith, are you trying to have a race?

0:04:56 > 0:05:00- You steam up those stairs every morning...- Yes.- ..at a pace.- Yes.

0:05:02 > 0:05:07Is this is where you've worked for 50 years, more or less?

0:05:07 > 0:05:0940-odd years, yes.

0:05:09 > 0:05:12When we first moved here, I was looking after the children

0:05:12 > 0:05:16when they were small, so I couldn't work then.

0:05:16 > 0:05:20But, yes, I love this room.

0:05:22 > 0:05:25Everything I've done, I've done on this thing.

0:05:27 > 0:05:31I don't know what would happen if I had to work anywhere else.

0:05:31 > 0:05:32I don't know if I could.

0:05:33 > 0:05:35What are you working on now?

0:05:35 > 0:05:38I thought of doing this book,

0:05:38 > 0:05:42much of which takes place in a sort of jungle, and I thought, because

0:05:42 > 0:05:46I am not good at trees and things, and I thought I can't do that.

0:05:46 > 0:05:50But then I thought, Rousseau, if I look at Rousseau,

0:05:50 > 0:05:55- if I think of Rousseau, I might be able to do it.- Jungles in cities.

0:05:55 > 0:05:57Yes, he is a wonderful man.

0:06:00 > 0:06:02- And Chagall.- The fantasy?

0:06:02 > 0:06:10Yes, there is a lot of flying in Chagall, couples and animals flying.

0:06:16 > 0:06:17Yes, that is Chagall.

0:06:17 > 0:06:20I mean, it is not Chagall, God knows, it is not Chagall,

0:06:20 > 0:06:23but he has lovers floating.

0:06:24 > 0:06:27It just seemed the right thing for this book.

0:06:29 > 0:06:33"They think I am sitting in this chair just waiting for my tea.

0:06:33 > 0:06:37"In fact, I'm flying through the air with Henry holding me.

0:06:38 > 0:06:42"My Henry died and went to heaven, but now he's got his wings.

0:06:42 > 0:06:47"They let him out from 4 till 7, and we do all sorts of things."

0:06:47 > 0:06:48JUDITH CHUCKLES

0:06:50 > 0:06:54I mean, this is the great thing about doing a book like this,

0:06:54 > 0:06:57is that you don't have a plot.

0:06:57 > 0:07:03You can just pick something that amuses you and do it,

0:07:03 > 0:07:06and particularly if it rhymes.

0:07:08 > 0:07:11"It's things we've never tried before, they are the greatest fun,

0:07:11 > 0:07:14"like riding on a dinosaur which I had never done."

0:07:17 > 0:07:22You see an old lady sitting there and you think, that's

0:07:22 > 0:07:26just an old lady, and she has got all that going on inside her,

0:07:26 > 0:07:32because she has had a life, which may have been very ordinary.

0:07:32 > 0:07:36It should have been very ordinary, but it was marvellous to her.

0:07:38 > 0:07:40'Judith's husband, known as Tom,

0:07:40 > 0:07:43'the writer Nigel Kneale, died seven years ago.'

0:07:45 > 0:07:47Like everything else you have written, in a way,

0:07:47 > 0:07:53all your books are kind of autobiographical, all of them.

0:07:53 > 0:07:55And My Henry, of course,

0:07:55 > 0:07:59is about this afterlife you are living with Tom.

0:07:59 > 0:08:04Yes, I didn't mean particularly with Tom, I just meant any very

0:08:04 > 0:08:07happily married couple.

0:08:08 > 0:08:14I know so many widows and on the whole,

0:08:14 > 0:08:17the people who have been happiest,

0:08:17 > 0:08:24in some ways find it almost easier because one has had all that.

0:08:26 > 0:08:28It makes one stronger, I think.

0:08:30 > 0:08:35There's a picture there of, I take it, your father and mother,

0:08:35 > 0:08:39- and you and your brother Michael. - Yes, yes.

0:08:39 > 0:08:40That must have been in Berlin?

0:08:40 > 0:08:45It was in Berlin and I had just inherited my brother's tricycle,

0:08:45 > 0:08:49which was iron, as they were in those days, very, very heavy.

0:08:50 > 0:08:55I found that for the first time I could turn corners in it.

0:08:55 > 0:09:00And so when they said, come and have this photograph taken, I thought

0:09:00 > 0:09:07now, I must look like somebody who can turn corners on a tricycle.

0:09:07 > 0:09:10And that the expression of somebody who can go round

0:09:10 > 0:09:12corners on a tricycle!

0:09:15 > 0:09:16You are still the child, aren't you,

0:09:16 > 0:09:20somehow one feels that you are still inside that child's head.

0:09:20 > 0:09:24I don't know. I don't know.

0:09:27 > 0:09:31I feel much the same as I did then.

0:09:31 > 0:09:34I wanted to draw things and look at things

0:09:34 > 0:09:36and thought the world was very beautiful.

0:09:38 > 0:09:44Which I do more than ever now, because one does when one is old.

0:09:49 > 0:09:53Judith's life's work is stored at this archive in Newcastle,

0:09:53 > 0:09:55the National Centre for Children's Books.

0:09:59 > 0:10:03They are holding a retrospective of Judith's life and work.

0:10:03 > 0:10:07German snakes and ladders. It's fantastic!

0:10:10 > 0:10:14Before the War, her father was a leading Jewish intellectual

0:10:14 > 0:10:18in Berlin, and her mother, 30 years his junior, was a composer.

0:10:21 > 0:10:25Judith has written a string of books based upon their experiences.

0:10:41 > 0:10:44These are drawings Judith did in Germany,

0:10:44 > 0:10:46before she left aged just nine.

0:10:48 > 0:10:54Now this one is the big city of Berlin, tram and cars.

0:10:56 > 0:10:57I remember doing this.

0:10:59 > 0:11:04I remember drawing this lady there with a newspaper

0:11:04 > 0:11:11and I've put "BT" because that was my father's paper that he

0:11:11 > 0:11:13wrote for, Berliner Tageblatt.

0:11:16 > 0:11:20There are some quite good back views of people, with fur collars,

0:11:20 > 0:11:23on their coats, and she's got a parcel.

0:11:25 > 0:11:27That's pure sort of '20s getup.

0:11:29 > 0:11:34I don't seem to have been able to draw noses, side view.

0:11:34 > 0:11:38They seem to have very little in the way of noses.

0:11:40 > 0:11:43But the sort of movement is all right.

0:11:46 > 0:11:52And here, you see, this one, I think we'd been to some kind of fair.

0:11:52 > 0:11:58I think that must be a stall where you could win things,

0:11:58 > 0:12:00because there seems to be a toy lamb hung up.

0:12:02 > 0:12:05Oh, yes, and there's somebody shooting at a target.

0:12:08 > 0:12:13My brother and I were each given, I think it was a bit of paper,

0:12:13 > 0:12:18which meant we could go on everything free. And it was unbelievable.

0:12:18 > 0:12:22And then we lost it and we thought the world was over,

0:12:22 > 0:12:25everything was finished, but they just gave us another one!

0:12:27 > 0:12:30As a child, you always have worries

0:12:30 > 0:12:33and secret things that you think about.

0:12:36 > 0:12:41I remember very clearly drawing these children on the slide and

0:12:41 > 0:12:48I drew this one, who is sliding, you know, as you do with your feet front,

0:12:48 > 0:12:52and another one on his stomach, and then there had to be a third one

0:12:52 > 0:12:54and I knew it had to be different

0:12:54 > 0:12:57and I remember thinking about it very hard,

0:12:57 > 0:13:01and then coming up with the idea of her having knees bent

0:13:01 > 0:13:05and hair flying out behind and it totally worked.

0:13:05 > 0:13:07I remember being terribly pleased.

0:13:09 > 0:13:13One doesn't really change in these matters, I don't think.

0:13:23 > 0:13:27This is a good one, actually, I remember being obsessed with

0:13:27 > 0:13:32trying to draw children and people going in a circle.

0:13:32 > 0:13:36The difficulty is always the child at the edge,

0:13:36 > 0:13:41the ones at the front of the circle, you have back views, and the ones at

0:13:41 > 0:13:43the back you have front views,

0:13:43 > 0:13:45but the ones at the side are of sort of tricky.

0:13:47 > 0:13:52A girl here who is sort of tilting slightly

0:13:52 > 0:13:54as though she's really dancing.

0:13:56 > 0:13:58This is obviously a great party.

0:13:58 > 0:14:03Men all wearing top hats and the ladies dressed rather splendidly.

0:14:04 > 0:14:08And I like this man sitting on the grass and smoking a cigarette.

0:14:10 > 0:14:15And this, I think, was a sort of lantern with a little candle inside.

0:14:17 > 0:14:22We used to have them a lot as children, and bunting.

0:14:27 > 0:14:32It was purely a very joyful time, must have been.

0:14:33 > 0:14:36At least, that's all I drew at that time.

0:14:37 > 0:14:41But this was my world in Berlin.

0:14:42 > 0:14:46It seems to be all shopping and parties!

0:14:48 > 0:14:54It's very touching that these are pictures I did before we left

0:14:54 > 0:15:02Berlin and my mother had to pack a few cases in a great rush because...

0:15:03 > 0:15:05We had to leave in a great hurry

0:15:05 > 0:15:07and it was all dangerous.

0:15:07 > 0:15:10I still find it extraordinary

0:15:10 > 0:15:13that, with all the things she had to try and remember to pack,

0:15:13 > 0:15:16she packed my best drawings,

0:15:16 > 0:15:18which she was quite proud of.

0:15:21 > 0:15:24Her father was a leading writer and theatre critic

0:15:24 > 0:15:26and in the Germany of the '20s and '30s,

0:15:26 > 0:15:29that was inevitably political.

0:15:40 > 0:15:43Pre-war Berlin was a wonderfully diverse city,

0:15:43 > 0:15:46a cultural hub and the family were in the thick of it.

0:15:46 > 0:15:51But it was also under the shadow of a rising Nazi Party.

0:15:51 > 0:15:54While they lived here, her father was in great danger.

0:15:59 > 0:16:02"She did not remember the streets, only the feel of them.

0:16:02 > 0:16:05"She and her brother Max walking home after dark.

0:16:05 > 0:16:08"Playing a game of jumping on each other's shadows

0:16:08 > 0:16:11"as they slid and leapt between one street lamp and the next.

0:16:11 > 0:16:15"Herself thinking, 'This is the best game we've ever played,

0:16:15 > 0:16:19" 'we'll play it always, always, always.' "

0:16:37 > 0:16:41By 1932, Alfred Kerr had to have bodyguards to go to work

0:16:41 > 0:16:45and was said to be second on the Nazis' death list.

0:16:45 > 0:16:50The family fled this house the very day before Hitler took power.

0:16:50 > 0:16:51It has haunted her imagination.

0:16:56 > 0:16:59"Suddenly, Anna remembered their old house

0:16:59 > 0:17:01"so vividly she could almost see it.

0:17:01 > 0:17:03"In her mind,

0:17:03 > 0:17:06"she walked right through the house from top through to bottom.

0:17:07 > 0:17:10"But it was no use going on going on thinking about it,

0:17:10 > 0:17:12"so she closed her eyes and went to sleep."

0:17:22 > 0:17:23Hello.

0:17:30 > 0:17:34"It was hardly recognisable, it had been extended so much.

0:17:34 > 0:17:36"Then she noticed something unchanged -

0:17:36 > 0:17:38"the steps leading up to the front door

0:17:38 > 0:17:40"were exactly as she remembered them.

0:17:40 > 0:17:42"The steepness, the colour of the stone,

0:17:42 > 0:17:44"all exactly as it had been.

0:17:46 > 0:17:50"She stared at it, remembering how after school she had raced up there,

0:17:50 > 0:17:53"pulling at the bell, shouting, 'Is mummy home?'

0:17:54 > 0:17:56"A small person did not say, 'Is mummy home?' -

0:17:56 > 0:17:58"she said, 'Ist mama da?'

0:17:59 > 0:18:02"Anna felt shaken by her sudden emergence."

0:18:17 > 0:18:19I used to sit up there and draw.

0:18:22 > 0:18:24And once I fell down the steps.

0:18:27 > 0:18:28In a way...

0:18:31 > 0:18:35..it's as though it had happened to somebody else, you know.

0:18:35 > 0:18:36I...

0:18:38 > 0:18:41The only thing that's the same, I feel is exactly the same,

0:18:41 > 0:18:44is that person who used to sit up there and draw.

0:18:54 > 0:18:56And...

0:18:59 > 0:19:03Once, in a very, very brief religious phase I had,

0:19:03 > 0:19:07I thought I ought to sacrifice one of my drawings to God.

0:19:09 > 0:19:13And first I was going to tear it up, but then I thought that was a pity.

0:19:13 > 0:19:17And so then I thought, "Well, he might not even want it"

0:19:17 > 0:19:20so I shut my eyes and threw it in the air and said,

0:19:20 > 0:19:23"Here you are, God" and I waited a long time,

0:19:23 > 0:19:26but he didn't take it, so I put it back.

0:19:28 > 0:19:31I thought, "We don't want to waste it, really" -

0:19:31 > 0:19:32it was quite a good drawing.

0:19:43 > 0:19:46It was a different world though.

0:19:46 > 0:19:50I suppose it always is, wherever you were aged nine is a different world.

0:19:52 > 0:19:54But this is extra different, I suppose.

0:19:59 > 0:20:01- Guten tag.- Guten tag.

0:20:56 > 0:20:59This street, the sort of feeling of the street, is much the same.

0:21:01 > 0:21:04I never really missed it that much, but my poor parents...

0:21:11 > 0:21:13SONG IN GERMAN

0:21:23 > 0:21:25Before the Nazis came,

0:21:25 > 0:21:29Alfred Kerr was really the most influential critic in Berlin.

0:21:30 > 0:21:34Berlin was the capital and he was the most important person.

0:21:35 > 0:21:41He, very early on, understands that the Nazis are an evil influence,

0:21:41 > 0:21:46so he campaigns against the Nazi regime.

0:21:46 > 0:21:48And puts himself at risk.

0:21:48 > 0:21:49Yes, he did.

0:21:49 > 0:21:52These Jewish intellectuals like Alfred Kerr,

0:21:52 > 0:21:57they immediately understood that this was an attack...

0:21:57 > 0:21:59on the whole humanity,

0:21:59 > 0:22:01not only on themselves,

0:22:01 > 0:22:05and they were, in a way, followers of the great poet Heinrich Heine,

0:22:05 > 0:22:10who had said, "When there are books to be burned,

0:22:10 > 0:22:13"human beings will be burned afterwards."

0:22:15 > 0:22:20And, of course, Alfred Kerr's books were burned in '33

0:22:20 > 0:22:23in the famous Autodafe

0:22:23 > 0:22:26that Goebbels directed.

0:22:27 > 0:22:30CHILDREN PLAY INSIDE

0:22:38 > 0:22:43"The Nazis certainly are very stupid", said Uncle Julius.

0:22:43 > 0:22:46"How could you possibly be an enemy of Germany?"

0:22:46 > 0:22:48"You know, of course, they burned all your books.

0:22:48 > 0:22:51"I was in very good company", said Papa.

0:22:52 > 0:22:54"What books?" asked Anna.

0:22:54 > 0:22:57"I thought the Nazis had just taken all our things,

0:22:57 > 0:22:59"I didn't know they're burned them!"

0:22:59 > 0:23:03"These were not the books your father owned", said Uncle Julius.

0:23:03 > 0:23:05"They were the books he's written."

0:23:05 > 0:23:07How attached do you think he was to Germany?

0:23:07 > 0:23:11How difficult was it for him, do you think, to leave Germany?

0:23:11 > 0:23:14For Alfred Kerr, like many of his companions,

0:23:14 > 0:23:18of course it was a heartbreak, it was a shock.

0:23:18 > 0:23:19Because then...

0:23:19 > 0:23:23they not only lost their country, they lost their language,

0:23:23 > 0:23:25and this was his instrument.

0:23:27 > 0:23:31- This is from the Deutsches Theater. - Oh, yes.

0:23:31 > 0:23:35And it must be in 1930.

0:23:35 > 0:23:39Alfred Kerr, he's sitting in the first line.

0:23:39 > 0:23:41He was a famous man in this time.

0:23:43 > 0:23:44And then here...

0:23:46 > 0:23:47..is this Alfred and Judith?

0:23:47 > 0:23:49This is his daughter Judith.

0:23:50 > 0:23:54He was 66 when he had to emigrate.

0:23:54 > 0:23:58- You can see that this is an older father as well.- Yes.

0:23:58 > 0:24:02An amazing picture and taken when...

0:24:02 > 0:24:05he was obliged to go to Prague and leave his family behind.

0:24:06 > 0:24:12He'd been warned by somebody he'd never met - a policeman -

0:24:12 > 0:24:15that they were trying to take his passport away.

0:24:15 > 0:24:19I couldn't understand where he'd gone overnight.

0:24:19 > 0:24:22He wanted us all out of Germany before the elections

0:24:22 > 0:24:25because he thought they'd hang onto us to get him back.

0:24:27 > 0:24:30And my mother told us that we would be leaving as well.

0:24:34 > 0:24:38My immediate reaction was, "Oh, yes, I hope so."

0:24:38 > 0:24:40Because I thought it would be so exciting.

0:24:42 > 0:24:46My mother said, on the last day at school,

0:24:46 > 0:24:49at the end of the day I was to tell my teacher

0:24:49 > 0:24:51that I wouldn't be coming to school next day

0:24:51 > 0:24:54because we were going to Switzerland.

0:24:56 > 0:24:57So I did that...

0:24:59 > 0:25:03This I do remember, I think the classrooms are off to the left.

0:25:05 > 0:25:08My teacher...

0:25:08 > 0:25:10I don't think she was that surprised.

0:25:23 > 0:25:25My mother said,

0:25:25 > 0:25:29"When we get to the frontier, a man comes to look at our passports,

0:25:29 > 0:25:33"I want both of you to be absolutely silent, you're not to say a word."

0:25:42 > 0:25:45So when we got to the frontier, the man came

0:25:45 > 0:25:50and looked at all the passports and, as he went out, I burst out.

0:25:50 > 0:25:53I was going to say, "There you are, nothing's happened"

0:25:53 > 0:25:57and my mother just gave me a terrible look, so I stopped.

0:25:59 > 0:26:02And I think now, you know...

0:26:02 > 0:26:04what I might have done to my family.

0:26:07 > 0:26:11My father went to Zurich from Prague and he was there to meet us

0:26:11 > 0:26:12at the station.

0:26:17 > 0:26:20And he told me afterwards that...

0:26:20 > 0:26:24the 20 minutes or so that he spent waiting for the train

0:26:24 > 0:26:27were the worst 20 minutes of his life.

0:26:31 > 0:26:36"All the famous people had had what was called a difficult childhood.

0:26:36 > 0:26:40"Clearly you had to have one if you wanted to become famous.

0:26:40 > 0:26:43"As the train rumbled through Germany in the darkness,

0:26:43 > 0:26:46"she kept thinking, 'Difficult childhood, difficult childhood' ".

0:26:54 > 0:26:57They were refugees and desperately short of money.

0:26:59 > 0:27:02In 1934, marooned in Paris,

0:27:02 > 0:27:05her father wrote to his friend Einstein for help.

0:27:05 > 0:27:11He had the plan to go to America and ask Einstein, who was there,

0:27:11 > 0:27:14if he could help him.

0:27:14 > 0:27:18He's opening himself, his heart up, to Einstein

0:27:18 > 0:27:20and telling him of his problems,

0:27:20 > 0:27:24and then there's a letter in reply from Einstein.

0:27:24 > 0:27:26SHE SPEAKS GERMAN

0:27:30 > 0:27:34I was shattered to receive your letter, is what he's saying.

0:27:34 > 0:27:37SHE SPEAKS GERMAN

0:27:37 > 0:27:40I am so comfortable here where I am by the sea,

0:27:40 > 0:27:42and you're having such a terrible time.

0:27:42 > 0:27:43Yeah. Exactly.

0:27:44 > 0:27:47But America would not let them in.

0:27:48 > 0:27:50The letters...

0:27:50 > 0:27:54from my mother to my father are totally shattering.

0:27:54 > 0:27:57A lot of talk of suicide,

0:27:57 > 0:28:02even one from my father to somebody saying...

0:28:02 > 0:28:05"I'm sorry I haven't written, but...

0:28:05 > 0:28:06"I've been...

0:28:08 > 0:28:10"..frantic, really...

0:28:12 > 0:28:15"..because my wife's talk of suicide,

0:28:15 > 0:28:20"not just for herself, but the children as well.

0:28:20 > 0:28:23"I've had to be terribly careful."

0:28:26 > 0:28:29I saw the date on it and I said,

0:28:29 > 0:28:32"I just learned to speak French at that point."

0:28:32 > 0:28:36And the thought of all that being wasted was very, very annoying.

0:28:40 > 0:28:42The worries must have been terrible.

0:28:43 > 0:28:47My mother was either very happy or very despairing.

0:28:49 > 0:28:52But she was wonderful, I mean, she got us out.

0:28:54 > 0:28:58One doesn't know what one would do in those circumstances.

0:29:02 > 0:29:03This picture of your mother...

0:29:03 > 0:29:04Yes.

0:29:04 > 0:29:06..did you paint this?

0:29:06 > 0:29:07Yes, I did.

0:29:08 > 0:29:12There is something about this, there's real sadness in her eyes.

0:29:13 > 0:29:14Yes.

0:29:15 > 0:29:19She was the one who really had the hardest time

0:29:19 > 0:29:22because my father...

0:29:22 > 0:29:24had had a very full life

0:29:24 > 0:29:29and had a great talent for happiness.

0:29:29 > 0:29:32He was looking at things all the time,

0:29:32 > 0:29:35and if you do that you don't despair.

0:29:37 > 0:29:41He would think "Yes, this is bad, but it's interesting."

0:29:41 > 0:29:44Just like you, Judith, you're always looking.

0:29:44 > 0:29:47If you make things, I think you do

0:29:47 > 0:29:52because there's this awful thing in one that always thinks,

0:29:52 > 0:29:55"Oh, that might come in useful one day."

0:29:55 > 0:29:56Isn't there?

0:30:05 > 0:30:08"She did not care what England was like,

0:30:08 > 0:30:09"just as long as they got there.

0:30:13 > 0:30:16"A kind but incomprehensible porter

0:30:16 > 0:30:18"put them on the slow train to London.

0:30:22 > 0:30:25" 'Where are we now?' Asks Mama.

0:30:25 > 0:30:28"Anna spelled out the name of an illuminated sign.

0:30:28 > 0:30:29" 'Bovril.' She said.

0:30:29 > 0:30:34" 'It can't be,' said Max, 'the last place we stopped was called Bovril.'

0:30:34 > 0:30:35"Mama looked for herself.

0:30:35 > 0:30:37" 'It's an advertisement,' she said,

0:30:37 > 0:30:40" 'Bovril is some kind of English food.

0:30:40 > 0:30:42" 'I think they eat it with stewed fruit.' "

0:30:48 > 0:30:52Judith was 13 when they arrived in London in 1936.

0:30:53 > 0:30:56They lived in a small hotel on this site.

0:30:56 > 0:30:59It was bombed out of existence during the Blitz.

0:31:08 > 0:31:10"As she picked her way among the fragments of glass

0:31:10 > 0:31:12"scattered on the pavement,

0:31:12 > 0:31:15"she noticed how the sun sparkled on them.

0:31:15 > 0:31:18"Her legs were brown from the endless fine weather

0:31:18 > 0:31:20"and she suddenly wanted to run and jump.

0:31:21 > 0:31:23"How awful to feel like this, she thought,

0:31:23 > 0:31:25"when people had been killed.

0:31:26 > 0:31:28"But suddenly she could feel nothing

0:31:28 > 0:31:31"but a huge happiness at still being alive."

0:31:35 > 0:31:37After 1940,

0:31:37 > 0:31:40then the Germans were at Dunkirk.

0:31:40 > 0:31:43Well, we thought that was the end.

0:31:43 > 0:31:45I didn't think I would ever grow up

0:31:45 > 0:31:48or be able to do anything I wanted to do.

0:31:50 > 0:31:52Nor did everybody else.

0:31:52 > 0:31:55They were just waiting for the invasion.

0:31:55 > 0:31:58Is it true that your parents had suicide pills...

0:31:58 > 0:32:01- Yes. - ..prepared?- Yes, because...

0:32:03 > 0:32:04Well...

0:32:04 > 0:32:09my father would have had very special treatment by the Nazis and...

0:32:10 > 0:32:14..so Doctor, a friend of ours gave him suicide pills.

0:32:15 > 0:32:18And I said, "What about me?"

0:32:18 > 0:32:22And they said, "Well, you speak perfect English,

0:32:22 > 0:32:25"you may be able to survive."

0:32:27 > 0:32:31"One day Anna discovered a rusty car with no wheels

0:32:31 > 0:32:33"and two broken bedsteads dumped in

0:32:33 > 0:32:36"the middle of the grass of Russell Square.

0:32:36 > 0:32:38"The hotel porter explained to her

0:32:38 > 0:32:40"that it was to stop German parachuters from landing.

0:32:40 > 0:32:45" 'Could they really land in Russell Square? There doesn't seem room.'

0:32:45 > 0:32:47" 'There's no knowing what they can't do.'

0:32:51 > 0:32:54"Anna tried not to think about them.

0:32:54 > 0:32:56"But sometimes at night her guard slipped

0:32:56 > 0:32:59"and she saw them dropping silently down among

0:32:59 > 0:33:01"the trees of Russell Square.

0:33:04 > 0:33:07"They set off toward the Hotel Continental

0:33:07 > 0:33:08"to look for Jews."

0:33:17 > 0:33:20Back in Germany of course, things were far worse.

0:33:21 > 0:33:24Before she was forced to flee Berlin,

0:33:24 > 0:33:26Judith often came to the zoo here.

0:33:26 > 0:33:27Look at that?

0:33:27 > 0:33:29Isn't that marvellous?

0:33:29 > 0:33:32They always look as though they are smiling.

0:33:37 > 0:33:38Hello, then.

0:33:38 > 0:33:40Hello.

0:33:40 > 0:33:42Look at this face.

0:33:42 > 0:33:45I mean, look at this, this is a person.

0:33:45 > 0:33:47Yes.

0:33:47 > 0:33:49That's one of us.

0:33:54 > 0:33:56He's looking at our world.

0:33:56 > 0:33:57- Isn't he?- He is.- Yes.

0:34:00 > 0:34:02With the hand, that's us.

0:34:06 > 0:34:09Judith used to come to this zoo with a family friend,

0:34:09 > 0:34:12who in her books she calls Uncle Julius.

0:34:14 > 0:34:18In the book When Hitler Stole The Pink Rabbit,

0:34:18 > 0:34:21Uncle Julius has a sort of sad end, doesn't he?

0:34:21 > 0:34:22Yes.

0:34:22 > 0:34:25He always went to the zoo. He loved it.

0:34:25 > 0:34:29And he had a Jewish grandmother

0:34:29 > 0:34:32and so they took away his pass to the zoo,

0:34:32 > 0:34:36and I think that was the last straw,

0:34:36 > 0:34:39apparently that's when he killed himself.

0:34:41 > 0:34:42So that was a true story?

0:34:42 > 0:34:44Yes.

0:34:44 > 0:34:48Apparently in 1938,

0:34:48 > 0:34:52they made a law that Jewish families couldn't keep pets,

0:34:52 > 0:34:57and they had to be collected, you weren't allowed to kill your pet,

0:34:57 > 0:34:59you had to hand it over

0:34:59 > 0:35:03and you didn't know what was going to happen to it.

0:35:03 > 0:35:04And then...

0:35:04 > 0:35:07in 1942...

0:35:07 > 0:35:10when they must have had other things on their minds,

0:35:10 > 0:35:14somebody decided that mixed families,

0:35:14 > 0:35:19if there was a marriage between a Jew and an Aryan,

0:35:19 > 0:35:23and they'd stayed together, but they couldn't keep pets either.

0:35:27 > 0:35:30Who thinks of things like that?

0:35:30 > 0:35:32I mean, why?

0:35:38 > 0:35:39Extraordinary.

0:35:41 > 0:35:44I don't believe in God at all,

0:35:44 > 0:35:47but whoever it was, was a very good designer.

0:35:50 > 0:35:53And not only to...

0:35:53 > 0:35:57make that extraordinary shape, but then cover it in a pattern.

0:36:03 > 0:36:06In war, I was drawing more

0:36:06 > 0:36:11and being staggered by all these incredible creatures.

0:36:24 > 0:36:28During the war as the bombs fell, Judith was drawing obsessively.

0:36:31 > 0:36:34"She felt almost painfully aware of all the sounds,

0:36:34 > 0:36:37"shapes and colours around her and wanted to draw everything in sight.

0:36:37 > 0:36:40"She filled one notebook after another,

0:36:40 > 0:36:42"and when she was not drawing, she thought about it.

0:36:48 > 0:36:50"She felt as though she had been asleep for years

0:36:50 > 0:36:52"and had just woken up."

0:36:58 > 0:37:00In 1945, she won a scholarship to

0:37:00 > 0:37:03the Central School of Arts and Crafts in London.

0:37:07 > 0:37:08We ran up these stairs...

0:37:11 > 0:37:14..and the life room was on the top floor.

0:37:17 > 0:37:20She hovered on the brink of an affair with her teacher.

0:37:23 > 0:37:25" 'I'm being kissed,' she thought.

0:37:25 > 0:37:28"And was horrified to find herself looking past him at

0:37:28 > 0:37:30"the mirror to see what it looked like.

0:37:32 > 0:37:36" 'You're very young,' he said, 'I wouldn't want to disturb you.'

0:37:36 > 0:37:40" 'Disturb me?' She said. 'If I made love to you now..."

0:37:40 > 0:37:43I think this must have been the life room.

0:37:43 > 0:37:45I think this must have been it.

0:37:45 > 0:37:49"What did he mean, make love to her?"

0:37:49 > 0:37:51" 'An English girl would know', she thought desperately,

0:37:51 > 0:37:55"why couldn't I have grown up in one country like everybody else."

0:38:06 > 0:38:09Her German roots seemed to emerge in her paintings,

0:38:09 > 0:38:12a kind of brooding expressionism.

0:38:12 > 0:38:14I think she's just such a lovely painter.

0:38:16 > 0:38:18And her colour is beautiful.

0:38:19 > 0:38:23And there's a sort of energy in them that's really amazing.

0:38:25 > 0:38:29The light and everything that she gets into that piece of work.

0:38:31 > 0:38:33I love this place.

0:38:44 > 0:38:48Painting was her first love, but she got work as a textile designer.

0:38:50 > 0:38:53I love these textiles, they are like paintings.

0:38:55 > 0:38:56And they're like illustrations.

0:38:56 > 0:39:01But they make the most wonderful prints, and they're very sensitive.

0:39:01 > 0:39:03And strangely in a way, quite modern,

0:39:03 > 0:39:06there's something about them that feels very contemporary.

0:39:07 > 0:39:09Her palette is lovely.

0:39:09 > 0:39:13But the fact that you can sort of see the paint in them,

0:39:13 > 0:39:16and in this one there's no real line,

0:39:16 > 0:39:18but they are so elegant

0:39:18 > 0:39:22and the way that she gets this sense of movement in everything.

0:39:24 > 0:39:27And I shouldn't be surprised because she's an illustrator,

0:39:27 > 0:39:32but I am surprised that she could design such amazing textiles.

0:39:40 > 0:39:41It was a training ground for

0:39:41 > 0:39:44the children's illustrator she would become.

0:39:49 > 0:39:53Her career was taking shape, but her father had struggled in Britain.

0:39:53 > 0:39:57In 1948, exile appeared to be over at last.

0:39:58 > 0:40:01When he got off the plane in Germany,

0:40:01 > 0:40:04there were journalists and photographers

0:40:04 > 0:40:08and he normally made a special face for being photographed.

0:40:08 > 0:40:11- And he didn't have time... - What was his special face?

0:40:11 > 0:40:13It was sort of...

0:40:13 > 0:40:14A writer's face, you know.

0:40:17 > 0:40:21And they got him as he really looked, you can see him smile,

0:40:21 > 0:40:22and like himself,

0:40:22 > 0:40:24which was lovely.

0:40:31 > 0:40:34He was welcomed as a returning hero.

0:40:34 > 0:40:37It was one of the first public recognitions of all those who

0:40:37 > 0:40:39Germany had thrown away.

0:40:49 > 0:40:52But he was not to live to enjoy it.

0:40:52 > 0:40:56That very night he had a stroke and made the decision to commit suicide

0:40:56 > 0:40:59in which he was assisted by his wife Julia.

0:41:04 > 0:41:08While he was actually dying, having already taken the pills,

0:41:08 > 0:41:12he wrote these letters to Julia whom he called Mouse.

0:41:13 > 0:41:15SHE SPEAKS GERMAN

0:41:18 > 0:41:19You were everything to me.

0:41:21 > 0:41:24And the last hours gave me everything.

0:41:27 > 0:41:28For god's sake, be happy.

0:41:28 > 0:41:30Don't be a widow.

0:41:46 > 0:41:48You were the sweetest in all eternity.

0:41:50 > 0:41:52And the two children also.

0:41:52 > 0:41:53Thank you.

0:41:56 > 0:41:58I feel that I am dying.

0:42:09 > 0:42:14Judith's mother too had attempted suicide and would do so again.

0:42:14 > 0:42:17In a sense, the war had destroyed them both.

0:42:25 > 0:42:29In 1951, Judith found her security.

0:42:38 > 0:42:41She met Tom, better known as Nigel Kneale,

0:42:41 > 0:42:44in the canteen at the BBC where he was a script writer.

0:42:44 > 0:42:47She was teaching art at a school across the road.

0:42:50 > 0:42:54Tom, Nigel Kneale, went on to create Quatermass,

0:42:54 > 0:42:58it was a landmark series which had the nation glued to their screens.

0:43:00 > 0:43:03The thing is about astronauts going into space

0:43:03 > 0:43:05and they hadn't actually done that,

0:43:05 > 0:43:08they didn't do that for another eight years.

0:43:08 > 0:43:11Three go up and only one comes back.

0:43:11 > 0:43:13They're gone. They're gone!

0:43:13 > 0:43:14What?

0:43:14 > 0:43:16- What's he talking about? - They're not inside.- They must be!

0:43:16 > 0:43:18Unless they opened the door and got swept away.

0:43:18 > 0:43:20I've checked all the instruments,

0:43:20 > 0:43:21that door hasn't been opened until now.

0:43:23 > 0:43:27Something else has got in and it grows into a sort of vegetation.

0:43:29 > 0:43:31All this vegetation came to life?

0:43:31 > 0:43:34It moved. It had to move on cue.

0:43:34 > 0:43:36It wasn't a recording.

0:43:36 > 0:43:38- This was live television. - Yes.

0:43:38 > 0:43:41Tom and I had to make the special effects.

0:43:41 > 0:43:44At exactly the right moment,

0:43:44 > 0:43:48he moved his fingers very, very, very, slowly

0:43:48 > 0:43:51and the entire nation was terrified.

0:43:52 > 0:43:54It was wonderful you could to that.

0:43:57 > 0:44:03A stored image is obtained of a race purge on ancient Mars.

0:44:06 > 0:44:08The monster is from Quatermass And The Pit,

0:44:08 > 0:44:10which is the best of them.

0:44:10 > 0:44:11Can I pick him up?

0:44:11 > 0:44:13He's lost one of his legs.

0:44:13 > 0:44:15Oh, my God, it's amazing.

0:44:16 > 0:44:18Oh, there it is!

0:44:18 > 0:44:21Tom, being a Manxman, gave it three legs.

0:44:23 > 0:44:25I think it goes at the back probably.

0:44:25 > 0:44:28Tell me about this, how did this happen?

0:44:28 > 0:44:30What, that the leg came off?

0:44:30 > 0:44:32Victor! What happened?

0:44:39 > 0:44:43Judith and Tom bought this house in Barnes 50 years ago.

0:44:44 > 0:44:46I've got a Mog mug.

0:44:49 > 0:44:52I used to have two, I must have given it to somebody.

0:44:55 > 0:44:58They had two children, Tacy and Matthew.

0:44:58 > 0:45:00Judith stayed at home to look after them.

0:45:02 > 0:45:07It was in this kitchen that she invented The Tiger Who Came To Tea.

0:45:08 > 0:45:11Tom was out filming all the time.

0:45:12 > 0:45:16It got really very boring, I mean, you go for a walk and have tea

0:45:16 > 0:45:17and then...

0:45:17 > 0:45:21that was it really, and we wished somebody would come.

0:45:21 > 0:45:24And so I thought, "Well...

0:45:26 > 0:45:29"..why not have a tiger come?"

0:45:29 > 0:45:32And so that's where the story came from really.

0:45:32 > 0:45:35- I'll pour the tea. - Thank you.

0:45:36 > 0:45:39I thought I'd try and make a picture book

0:45:39 > 0:45:43and because I told Tacy that story so often,

0:45:43 > 0:45:48I actually knew it by heart, every word, it hadn't changed.

0:45:50 > 0:45:52- Milk? - Yes, please.

0:45:52 > 0:45:53Thank you.

0:45:53 > 0:45:56In a way it's the only picture book I've ever done like that

0:45:56 > 0:45:59because normally I think of the pictures as I think of the story.

0:45:59 > 0:46:02But this I really had no idea how to do it.

0:46:02 > 0:46:05I wondered whether the tiger should wear clothes,

0:46:05 > 0:46:08I didn't what to do with it.

0:46:08 > 0:46:11The doorbell rings just as Sophie and her mummy

0:46:11 > 0:46:12are sitting down to tea.

0:46:12 > 0:46:14Who could it possibly be?

0:46:14 > 0:46:17What they certainly don't expect to see at the door

0:46:17 > 0:46:19is a big, furry, stripy tiger.

0:46:21 > 0:46:25When A Tiger Comes To Tea, I mean, it is actually a tiger.

0:46:25 > 0:46:28For two and three year olds, it's quite hard for us to remember that.

0:46:28 > 0:46:31That when they see the tiger peep round the door and come in,

0:46:31 > 0:46:32well, that is a tiger.

0:46:32 > 0:46:36Because when you're two and three, why wouldn't a tiger come to tea?

0:46:36 > 0:46:39If you open the door, you don't know who's going to come in.

0:46:39 > 0:46:43But then obviously if you want to say, metaphorically,

0:46:43 > 0:46:46what is going on here, who is this tiger?

0:46:46 > 0:46:49It's the person who walks in and starts grabbing stuff.

0:46:49 > 0:46:52He drinks all the water out of the tap.

0:46:52 > 0:46:56Well, I mean, he is a tiger, what do tigers do, they eat people.

0:46:56 > 0:46:57Yes.

0:46:57 > 0:46:59And so tigers are dangerous.

0:46:59 > 0:47:02Well, Judith knows about dangerous people

0:47:02 > 0:47:06who come to your house and take people away.

0:47:06 > 0:47:09You know, this was her experience as a young child,

0:47:09 > 0:47:11she knew this could happen, you know,

0:47:11 > 0:47:13she was told as a young child that her father

0:47:13 > 0:47:18could be grabbed at any moment by either the Gestapo or the SS.

0:47:18 > 0:47:20You know, he was in great danger.

0:47:20 > 0:47:24So, I mean, I don't know whether Judith did it consciously or not,

0:47:24 > 0:47:25I wouldn't want to go there,

0:47:25 > 0:47:30but the point is he's a jokey tiger, but still...he is a tiger.

0:47:31 > 0:47:34The tiger, I never found threatening.

0:47:34 > 0:47:36It's just a strange happening.

0:47:36 > 0:47:39I like the way that the mother and the daughter,

0:47:39 > 0:47:40they're not scared of it.

0:47:40 > 0:47:43They're just trying to offer their hospitality.

0:47:45 > 0:47:48And then in that, kind of...

0:47:48 > 0:47:52They don't tell it to stop - they just let it eat everything,

0:47:52 > 0:47:54drink everything and then it goes.

0:47:56 > 0:48:01It's all a very polite sort of interaction,

0:48:01 > 0:48:04there's nothing sinister about it.

0:48:04 > 0:48:06It's just that you end up with a bit of a mess

0:48:06 > 0:48:08and there's nothing to eat.

0:48:08 > 0:48:10That's the only bad thing.

0:48:13 > 0:48:15I also love the shopping trip.

0:48:15 > 0:48:17They restock their larder

0:48:17 > 0:48:21and they buy something in case this should ever happen again.

0:48:21 > 0:48:28But I like the slightly sad note that it doesn't happen again,

0:48:28 > 0:48:30there's something about that that's...

0:48:30 > 0:48:32You actually want it to happen again,

0:48:32 > 0:48:34but it's lovely that it doesn't.

0:48:41 > 0:48:44And then in what is one of the most memorable scenes in this book,

0:48:44 > 0:48:47or really in any children's book and one of the first ever,

0:48:47 > 0:48:50was a positive picture of the city.

0:48:50 > 0:48:53So, here we have the family moving through the city,

0:48:53 > 0:48:55it's new and exciting.

0:48:59 > 0:49:04Tiger was published in 1968 and has never been out of print since.

0:49:04 > 0:49:08Her next books would be prompted by her son's reaction

0:49:08 > 0:49:10to the reading schemes available at the time -

0:49:10 > 0:49:14like the Janet and John series.

0:49:14 > 0:49:16I remember the one he had,

0:49:16 > 0:49:22the climax was that his parents bought him his school uniform

0:49:22 > 0:49:25and, for some reason, in a fit of confusion,

0:49:25 > 0:49:28they both bought him a cap.

0:49:28 > 0:49:33And so the climax of the whole story was John has two caps.

0:49:33 > 0:49:36And for that you are supposed to learn to read!

0:49:37 > 0:49:41Matthew said, "I'm sorry, Mummy,

0:49:41 > 0:49:45"but I cannot read these books any more, they are too boring."

0:49:45 > 0:49:49And I began to say, "But you've got to learn to read,"

0:49:49 > 0:49:53and he said, "I am going to learn to read with The Cat In The Hat books."

0:49:53 > 0:49:58- Dr Seuss. And he did.- So, when you came to do your picture books...

0:49:58 > 0:50:03This influenced me very much when I did the Mog books.

0:50:03 > 0:50:08Never, ever, write something that's already in the picture.

0:50:09 > 0:50:13They can look at the picture and they knew that already

0:50:13 > 0:50:16and they've made all that effort.

0:50:16 > 0:50:21"He had a sh...shirt."

0:50:21 > 0:50:23You know, it's mad.

0:50:25 > 0:50:28I knew nothing about small children.

0:50:28 > 0:50:33You know, you're trying to get them to do this or that and I made

0:50:33 > 0:50:39this great discovery that it was all much easier if it was funny.

0:50:41 > 0:50:43Children must get terribly fed up,

0:50:43 > 0:50:48because everybody always knows more than they do.

0:50:48 > 0:50:51People say, "No, no, that's not right, don't do this.

0:50:51 > 0:50:55"Do that," or "Trees grow in the ground,

0:50:55 > 0:50:58"they don't fall from the sky," or whatever a child might believe.

0:51:00 > 0:51:06Tacy used to make me play a terrible game which was called Big Wawas.

0:51:06 > 0:51:10And a wawa was some sort of a creature which I had to be

0:51:10 > 0:51:15and I had to crawl about on the floor while Tacy walked ahead of me.

0:51:15 > 0:51:19And I had to pretend to be frightened.

0:51:19 > 0:51:22"He won't hurt you. He likes you."

0:51:22 > 0:51:25And she'd say, "Oh, no, Big Wawa, that's all right."

0:51:25 > 0:51:30Obviously, this gave her a terrific sort of sense of power

0:51:30 > 0:51:32and confidence -

0:51:32 > 0:51:35that at last there was somebody who knew less than she did.

0:51:38 > 0:51:40That's the attraction of Mog.

0:51:42 > 0:51:45She's not afraid of scaring the child.

0:51:46 > 0:51:49When I've read books with my children, this might well be

0:51:49 > 0:51:51the kind of spread where they go,

0:51:51 > 0:51:53"I don't want to look at that one. Turn that over."

0:51:53 > 0:51:55And then secretly they go and have another look at it,

0:51:55 > 0:51:58because books are about facing fears.

0:51:58 > 0:52:00Because at the end of the day it's not you in the sky,

0:52:00 > 0:52:03you're not facing those birds, somebody else is doing it for you.

0:52:03 > 0:52:07Mog is saying, "I am not the supper."

0:52:07 > 0:52:10"But who else can fly in the dark?

0:52:10 > 0:52:13"The big birds with teeth! They are here in the dark!

0:52:13 > 0:52:16"They want supper and who is the supper?"

0:52:16 > 0:52:20Now, this is the terrifying thing at the heart of many children's books -

0:52:20 > 0:52:22will you be eaten?

0:52:25 > 0:52:29It's in many fairy stories, think of Hansel and Gretel.

0:52:29 > 0:52:34So, here is a core fear - might you be consumed?

0:52:36 > 0:52:38RADIO: 'Mog is dead.

0:52:38 > 0:52:40'Sorry to be brutal about it to those of you who were brought up

0:52:40 > 0:52:43'on the Mog the cat stories, but there's no getting away from the fact

0:52:43 > 0:52:45'that after 30 years of Mog books,

0:52:45 > 0:52:48'Judith Kerr, her creator, has killed her off.

0:52:48 > 0:52:52'Mog's died. I'm really sad.

0:52:52 > 0:52:56'I really like Mog and I used to read the books a lot.'

0:53:01 > 0:53:06- MICHAEL ROSEN:- Very few characters who've become established die.

0:53:06 > 0:53:10People are preserved in a kind of childhood eternity.

0:53:10 > 0:53:13That is the tradition of the children's book.

0:53:16 > 0:53:18La fin! The end!

0:53:19 > 0:53:22There's a whole subtext going on of the kitten

0:53:22 > 0:53:24being able to communicate with the spirit of Mog.

0:53:24 > 0:53:27She's gone into kind of pagan territory.

0:53:27 > 0:53:31Mog goes to the sun, so that replenisher of life

0:53:31 > 0:53:34is installed at the end in our imagination,

0:53:34 > 0:53:37so it's risky territory to go there for children's books.

0:53:38 > 0:53:42I guess she's facing up to her own mortality.

0:53:42 > 0:53:44Many of the people in her life have passed away.

0:53:46 > 0:53:50She knows she's writing about a tough thing, but the key thing

0:53:50 > 0:53:53about a writer, if you do that, is not to be afraid of it.

0:53:59 > 0:54:03You say that you wrote When Hitler Sold Pink Rabbit

0:54:03 > 0:54:08because your children didn't quite get your childhood.

0:54:08 > 0:54:11We went to see that awful film, um...

0:54:13 > 0:54:14The Sound Of Music.

0:54:14 > 0:54:17SIRENS BLARE

0:54:17 > 0:54:20- Awful? Some people would feel... - HE LAUGHS

0:54:20 > 0:54:24Well, we went to see it anyhow. All the other children were going.

0:54:24 > 0:54:26Its dramatic images of escape

0:54:26 > 0:54:29didn't reflect the reality she had experienced.

0:54:29 > 0:54:31DOORBELL RINGS

0:54:31 > 0:54:34Quickly! Quickly! I have a place you can hide.

0:54:34 > 0:54:40Tom and I looked sort of slightly, you know, "Oh, God!" Um...

0:54:40 > 0:54:44Matthew was terribly pleased and he said, er,

0:54:44 > 0:54:49"Now we know exactly what it was like when Mummy was a little girl."

0:54:49 > 0:54:52'I had been thinking about writing something.

0:54:52 > 0:54:54'And I thought, "Well, perhaps it's time I did." '

0:54:54 > 0:54:56All right, if the borders are closed...

0:54:58 > 0:55:01..then we'll drive up into the hills and go over those mountains on foot.

0:55:01 > 0:55:04- But the children!- We'll help them, they'll be all right.

0:55:04 > 0:55:05We can do it without help, father!

0:55:14 > 0:55:15"When she was small,

0:55:15 > 0:55:18"she'd been comforted by the sound of a goods train

0:55:18 > 0:55:21"rumbling interminably through the night.

0:55:21 > 0:55:24"After Hitler, of course, goods trains had carried

0:55:24 > 0:55:27"quite different cargoes to quite different destinations.

0:55:30 > 0:55:33"She wondered if other German children had still been comforted

0:55:33 > 0:55:36"by their sound in the night, not knowing what was inside them.

0:55:40 > 0:55:43"She wondered what had happened to the trains afterwards

0:55:43 > 0:55:44"and if they were still in use."

0:55:52 > 0:55:57Perhaps the strangest twist to Judith Kerr's story is that

0:55:57 > 0:56:00When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit has been acclaimed,

0:56:00 > 0:56:03not only in Britain, but in Germany too.

0:56:03 > 0:56:04SCHOOL BELL RINGS

0:56:04 > 0:56:07It's a set text in German schools.

0:56:43 > 0:56:46'It is definitely something,'

0:56:46 > 0:56:50with the children, it's their age group and it's something...

0:56:50 > 0:56:57fear, um, family life that has been totally, er...totally interrupted.

0:56:57 > 0:57:01That is something that the children can relate to.

0:57:53 > 0:57:56'Tammy and I, we're also Jewish.'

0:57:56 > 0:58:01It's not so nice that they don't, um, like Jews,

0:58:01 > 0:58:06that Hitler don't like Jews, and it's, um...

0:58:06 > 0:58:09a little bit hard for her, because you that care...

0:58:09 > 0:58:12You don't want to be some different person,

0:58:12 > 0:58:15because everybody is the same,

0:58:15 > 0:58:20and she feels like she's one other person.

0:58:24 > 0:58:28The other book that I imagine German children read at school is

0:58:28 > 0:58:31- The Anne Frank Diaries.- Yes.

0:58:31 > 0:58:33I'm not Anne Frank.

0:58:35 > 0:58:37My life up to that point,

0:58:37 > 0:58:43the first three years of being refugees, was an adventure.

0:58:43 > 0:58:47Nothing awful happened to us. Compared with what happened

0:58:47 > 0:58:51to the people who didn't get out, it was nothing.

0:58:51 > 0:58:53ANNOUNCEMENT IN GERMAN

0:58:58 > 0:59:01This was Judith's local station,

0:59:01 > 0:59:04which the Nazis would put to a different use.

0:59:08 > 0:59:13This was where the Jews were transported to Auschwitz.

0:59:20 > 0:59:28"In memory of the people who were deported between 1941 and 1945

0:59:28 > 0:59:31"by German trains to the death camps."

0:59:33 > 0:59:37It was put up by the German railway company.

0:59:42 > 0:59:45I remember, when we were in Switzerland, saying,

0:59:45 > 0:59:49"When I'm grown-up, I'm going to murder Hitler,"

0:59:49 > 0:59:51and being told not to be so stupid.

0:59:51 > 0:59:54SHE LAUGHS I had no idea.

0:59:57 > 1:00:04We reached Zurich on the 4th of March and the elections were on the 5th.

1:00:04 > 1:00:11And we heard afterwards that, er, at eight o'clock the following morning,

1:00:11 > 1:00:15on the 6th, they came to our house for our passports

1:00:15 > 1:00:19and so, it's extraordinary to think, you know...

1:00:19 > 1:00:27all this very happy life I've had is because of that

1:00:27 > 1:00:29and, er...

1:00:31 > 1:00:33..terribly lucky...

1:00:37 > 1:00:45"11th of June, 1942. 15. Berlin to Theresienstadt."

1:00:45 > 1:00:48"12/06/1942.

1:00:48 > 1:00:53"50 Juden..." "50 Jews. Berlin to Theresienstadt."

1:00:55 > 1:01:00On the 13th, we've got 746.

1:01:04 > 1:01:09Auschwitz was the end, wasn't it? Theresienstadt, they had a chance.

1:01:13 > 1:01:16- 956 to Minsk.- Yeah.

1:01:17 > 1:01:21- And then here - 1,002.- Yes.

1:01:21 > 1:01:25So now, they're going in their thousands.

1:01:25 > 1:01:27- Each one of these now... - Yes.- ..is huge.

1:01:40 > 1:01:43What they would feel looking at this, you know.

1:01:43 > 1:01:46It's all very well, but nobody did anything.

1:01:50 > 1:01:51No.

1:02:01 > 1:02:07In a way, you feel you owe it to them to do something with our lives.

1:02:10 > 1:02:15What they wouldn't have done was just a little bit of what we had.

1:02:27 > 1:02:30This is not one of Judith's drawings.

1:02:30 > 1:02:33It was drawn and scribbled out by a child

1:02:33 > 1:02:37who was held at Theresienstadt and later gassed at Auschwitz.

1:03:07 > 1:03:11- MICHAEL ROSEN: - '99% of children's books end

1:03:11 > 1:03:13'with some kind of coming home,

1:03:13 > 1:03:16'some kind of redemption, some kind of safety.'

1:03:18 > 1:03:21But, of course, that's reflected in Judith's own life.

1:03:21 > 1:03:27She went on a nightmarish journey, she didn't know where she was going.

1:03:27 > 1:03:30After all that scary stuff, poor old Mog,

1:03:30 > 1:03:35with his downward-facing mouth, and then we get to the end.

1:03:35 > 1:03:38Mog's in his basket again. Oh, and he's got a fish in his mouth.

1:03:38 > 1:03:42Here, the kind of home that Judith wanted to make.

1:03:42 > 1:03:46And look, they're all having supper.

1:03:46 > 1:03:48There, and Mog asleep.

1:03:52 > 1:03:53If you're Kafka, you can make a world

1:03:53 > 1:03:55that is perpetually terrifying.

1:03:55 > 1:03:58If you're attracted to children's books, you will create,

1:03:58 > 1:04:01you will find this safety place is there waiting for you.

1:04:06 > 1:04:09JUDITH: 'Tomorrow, I'm going to have a day off.'

1:04:15 > 1:04:19"So they went out in the dark and all the street lamps were lit

1:04:19 > 1:04:22"and all the cars had their lights on.

1:04:22 > 1:04:25"And they walked down the road to a cafe."

1:04:50 > 1:04:53Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd