0:00:07 > 0:00:08Hello.
0:00:08 > 0:00:09Welcome to Egypt.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12THEY SPEAK IN ARABIC
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Ah... Everything is changed.
0:00:15 > 0:00:19When I was here, no buildings were here.
0:00:19 > 0:00:20It was all trees.
0:00:25 > 0:00:26He reads my articles.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30It's very good,
0:00:30 > 0:00:32Madame Nawal El Saadawi.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35HE SPEAKS ARABIC
0:00:35 > 0:00:37He says that we love her, we love her.
0:00:41 > 0:00:46Nawal El Saadawi, the pioneering Egyptian author and feminist.
0:00:50 > 0:00:54Nawal first moved into this flat in the 1960s.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07"I was covered in dust and pieces of brick as I lay on the floor.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10"It seemed as though we were cornered."
0:01:10 > 0:01:14'She hasn't lived here for over 20 years.'
0:01:14 > 0:01:16Well, you've still got electricity.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19'She fled in the face of fundamentalist death threats.'
0:01:24 > 0:01:28'A decade before that, the police came here to arrest her.'
0:01:28 > 0:01:29We have to put the light...
0:01:31 > 0:01:33- RADIO:- ...was detained in a sweeping operation.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36It is a purge.
0:01:39 > 0:01:40Ah.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46This is where I wrote most of my work.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48On this small desk, you know?
0:01:50 > 0:01:56I sat here for years, 30 years, on this desk.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02"I was six years old,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05"all I remember is a rasping metallic sound
0:02:05 > 0:02:09"and a hand seeking something buried between my thighs."
0:02:10 > 0:02:13This is my bed, my small bed.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17Because all my life I said, "I have my own bed."
0:02:17 > 0:02:19I never share a bed with a husband.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21Never. I must have my own bed.
0:02:23 > 0:02:25I never go and live with the husband.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27The husband comes and lives with me, you know?
0:02:27 > 0:02:30And when I don't need him, I make him go away.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32SHE LAUGHS
0:02:32 > 0:02:34That's the independence, you know?
0:02:36 > 0:02:39Nawal has recently been attacked on Egyptian television.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01Here was a voice from the Islamic world,
0:03:01 > 0:03:04a woman who'd had lots of hands-on experience.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08Her books were banned in Egypt.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11She lived some of her time
0:03:11 > 0:03:12outside of the country.
0:03:12 > 0:03:17So she really did stick her neck out. That had consequences,
0:03:17 > 0:03:22because there's nothing authoritarian regimes hate worse
0:03:22 > 0:03:24than divergent voices.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28I think her life has been one long death threat.
0:03:29 > 0:03:33At a time when nobody else was talking about it,
0:03:33 > 0:03:35she spoke the unspeakable.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40When you were arrested, what happened?
0:03:40 > 0:03:42They rang the bell.
0:03:42 > 0:03:43I looked here.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47People, many men.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51And they said, "We are the police."
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I said, "But you don't have police clothes,"
0:03:54 > 0:03:56and I told him, "What do you want?"
0:03:56 > 0:04:01He said, "We want just to inspect the house."
0:04:01 > 0:04:06I said, "Inspect for what? Am I a criminal?"
0:04:06 > 0:04:08So they left for half an hour.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11They brought a permit to break the door.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14They brought soldiers.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17I looked from the window. I found many police cars.
0:04:17 > 0:04:18Out there?
0:04:18 > 0:04:23Down, yes, waiting, as if they are going to arrest a gang.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26- Right.- Because they were afraid of me.
0:04:27 > 0:04:32We were about 1,650 prisoners.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36I was the only one who did not open the door.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39I am a bit stubborn.
0:04:51 > 0:04:56It was in London, last summer, that we first met Nawal El Saadawi.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58She's a global legend,
0:04:58 > 0:05:02a doctor-turned-writer who's published over 50 books,
0:05:02 > 0:05:04widely translated.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06Happy birthday...to me?
0:05:06 > 0:05:09- To my brother. - Ah, to your brother.
0:05:09 > 0:05:14Now 85, at the age of six, she was subjected to FGM,
0:05:14 > 0:05:19female genital mutilation, and has pioneered the fight against it.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22She's still a fighter today.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25I've been writing 72 years.
0:05:25 > 0:05:26APPLAUSE
0:05:26 > 0:05:28Almost all my life.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32And I started writing when I was a child, 13 years.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36And I published just Memoirs of a Child Called Souad,
0:05:36 > 0:05:40and it just came in English, and now I'm recognised, you know?
0:05:42 > 0:05:46People think that if you don't write in English, you don't write.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49LAUGHTER
0:05:49 > 0:05:51APPLAUSE
0:05:53 > 0:05:57You mentioned why you didn't like the term "Middle East".
0:05:57 > 0:05:59- Yeah.- Tell me something about that.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02I hate the word Middle East, I don't like it.
0:06:02 > 0:06:03Middle to who?
0:06:03 > 0:06:05LAUGHTER
0:06:05 > 0:06:10Because we were named "Middle East" relative to London,
0:06:10 > 0:06:12because we were colonised by the British.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16So they called India "far east" because India far,
0:06:16 > 0:06:18relative to them, far east.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20LAUGHTER
0:06:20 > 0:06:23And we in Egypt, we became the Middle East.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27So when I come to London, I say "I'm coming to the Middle West."
0:06:27 > 0:06:30LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:06:34 > 0:06:38When I go to the United States I go, "I am going to the Far West."
0:06:38 > 0:06:40LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:06:42 > 0:06:44How did you come to become a doctor, though?
0:06:44 > 0:06:48You studied at the University of Cairo medical school.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51- Medical, yes.- So you became a doctor in what, 1955?
0:06:51 > 0:06:55Unfortunately I went to the medical college,
0:06:55 > 0:06:57yes, because my father told me,
0:06:57 > 0:07:00"Nawal, Nawal, never - don't be a writer.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02"You will have no career.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05"You will go to prison, in exile, you will die poor.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08"Be a doctor, to be rich."
0:07:08 > 0:07:11So I followed my father's advice.
0:07:11 > 0:07:12I was not convinced,
0:07:12 > 0:07:15and especially in Egypt -
0:07:15 > 0:07:18most of the people who come to the doctor,
0:07:18 > 0:07:21who go to the doctor, they don't have the money to pay.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24Even for the medicine.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26I have to go to the government.
0:07:26 > 0:07:32So I worked with the government, but then they fired me after some time.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35And what did you do then, at that point?
0:07:35 > 0:07:39When they dismissed me I was happy. I was like a bird, flying.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42So I started writing, I started travelling.
0:07:44 > 0:07:46I gained my freedom.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07If there is such a thing as time,
0:08:07 > 0:08:09it is the time that I create by writing.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12I bring back the things I lived in that city of mine.
0:08:12 > 0:08:17It is as though life for me is beginning here and now,
0:08:17 > 0:08:19with the movement of the pen between my fingers,
0:08:19 > 0:08:22the movement of the air in and out of my chest,
0:08:22 > 0:08:26and the movement of the hands around my watch.
0:08:26 > 0:08:30The present moment is the only reality in my life story.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36"It is an infinite moment which stretches from birth to death.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39"My only desire in the whole wide world
0:08:39 > 0:08:42"is to live long enough to complete my novel."
0:08:57 > 0:09:00We arranged to meet Nawal in Cairo.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03This is the area where she lives now.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07After the arrest and then the death threats,
0:09:07 > 0:09:11Nawal left her other flat and came here.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14It's not where you might expect to find a world-famous author,
0:09:14 > 0:09:19the winner of numerous international awards.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22She clearly hasn't made a fortune from her books.
0:09:22 > 0:09:26Or is she simply determined not to join the elite?
0:09:26 > 0:09:29She's been politically active since the 1950s -
0:09:29 > 0:09:31the days of Nasser,
0:09:31 > 0:09:35who overthrew the monarchy and nationalised the Suez Canal.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37She's still very much in the news.
0:09:37 > 0:09:41We were shocked to hear she'd been subject to threats
0:09:41 > 0:09:43just before we arrived.
0:09:43 > 0:09:44Nawal El Saadawi?
0:09:44 > 0:09:49- El Saadawi? - THEY SPEAK IN ARABIC
0:09:53 > 0:09:55It's 26.
0:10:11 > 0:10:12KNOCK AT THE DOOR
0:10:14 > 0:10:15DOORBELL
0:10:18 > 0:10:20Hello?
0:10:20 > 0:10:21Hello again.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23Hello, how are you? Nice to see you.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27CALL TO PRAYER ECHOES
0:10:27 > 0:10:31Oh, that's the air, we'll be sitting here in the balcony.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34What a view that is of Cairo.
0:10:36 > 0:10:37Oh, that's amazing.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39It's a nice place, yeah.
0:10:48 > 0:10:53Today is Friday, that's why they are preaching to the people.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55Since Sadat, since Sadat.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58So it was quite secular here before Sadat?
0:10:58 > 0:11:00Secular, yes, before Sadat.
0:11:00 > 0:11:01Because Nasser was...
0:11:01 > 0:11:04Nasser was secular, and Egypt was secular.
0:11:04 > 0:11:09And he dismissed the Muslim Brothers because they tried to kill him.
0:11:09 > 0:11:11You know, they tried to kill Nasser.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14- Yes.- So he put them in prison.
0:11:14 > 0:11:20When Sadat came, he released all of them, gave them a lot of power,
0:11:20 > 0:11:23and gave them a lot of money, everything.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25And that's... We ended by this.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37I'm going to give us some peace.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39Ah, it's paradise.
0:11:39 > 0:11:41When you close, it's paradise.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45I hear you're writing, you're going back to your childhood.
0:11:45 > 0:11:51Yes, yes. Here is my photograph when I was three months.
0:11:51 > 0:11:53No!
0:11:53 > 0:11:55That is amazing.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57I'm looking at you now.
0:11:57 > 0:11:59- Yes, yes.- I'm seeing this,
0:11:59 > 0:12:03this curious, slightly intimidating child.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06Yes, this little child.
0:12:06 > 0:12:08I was just on my body, on my stomach.
0:12:08 > 0:12:10Wow.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13I could not stand, I could not stand.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21We were in the house of my grandfather, who was rich.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23Big house.
0:12:25 > 0:12:27He was a military man.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30Very, very reactionary.
0:12:30 > 0:12:32Horrible man.
0:12:33 > 0:12:39And my grandmother, the mother of my mother, sitting, veiled,
0:12:39 > 0:12:44very oppressed and sitting and looking at me.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48And all the family there and my mother.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52And she was a bit negligent.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56She threw her socks, her shoes, because she was spoiled, you know,
0:12:56 > 0:13:02like rich people. So this little infant,
0:13:02 > 0:13:07me, crawling, crawling and bringing the shoe of her mother,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10putting the sock in the shoe and bringing the shoe
0:13:10 > 0:13:15so that her mother would never lose her shoe among this many people.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23It was very important, my childhood.
0:13:23 > 0:13:25You cannot imagine.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30I go back to my childhood all the time,
0:13:30 > 0:13:32to be inspired.
0:13:36 > 0:13:38Memory is never complete.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43There are always parts of it that time has amputated.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46Writing is a way of retrieving them,
0:13:46 > 0:13:48of bringing the missing parts back.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55This is my grandmother, the village woman.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58The peasant grandmother. Is that the one...?
0:13:58 > 0:14:00Yes, the mother of my father.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04She was working in the field with her hands, producing her food...
0:14:06 > 0:14:09..and challenging the mayor.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12And she was tall and strong and revolutionary.
0:14:12 > 0:14:17I inherited her, in fact, the mother of my father.
0:14:17 > 0:14:21And the mayor used to insult her and tell her,
0:14:21 > 0:14:24"Why are you revolting?
0:14:24 > 0:14:27"You don't know God, you poor, illiterate woman.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30"You didn't read the Koran."
0:14:30 > 0:14:35So she told him, "Who told you that God is the Koran?
0:14:35 > 0:14:38"Who told you? Who told you that God is a book?
0:14:39 > 0:14:43"God is justice, and we know him by our mind."
0:14:45 > 0:14:48My father listened to his mother.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53So when I was young, he told me, read the Koran...
0:14:54 > 0:14:58..but then think by your mind,
0:14:58 > 0:15:00and believe your mind only.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03- That's my father.- You were lucky, weren't you?
0:15:03 > 0:15:04I was lucky.
0:15:06 > 0:15:08But you had to go through the ritual of cutting,
0:15:08 > 0:15:10of female genital mutilation.
0:15:10 > 0:15:15- Yes.- So why was that, when you have this quite sophisticated family?
0:15:16 > 0:15:21Because it was a very deep-rooted habit.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23It had nothing to do with religion.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26It was done to everybody
0:15:26 > 0:15:29automatically, without thinking.
0:15:29 > 0:15:34My father and mother were believers, but they were very open-minded.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37But they inherited this cutting of children.
0:15:40 > 0:15:46Though banned in 2008, FGM is still the norm for young girls in Egypt,
0:15:46 > 0:15:48which has one of the highest rates in the world.
0:15:52 > 0:15:57We've spent one and a half hours in the road now. Not bad, not bad.
0:15:57 > 0:15:59You will see my village.
0:16:06 > 0:16:08What's that? I can't recognise it.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12These buildings are preventing us from seeing the river.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19Now, just a second, let's see
0:16:19 > 0:16:21where to go to the Nile.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25The Nile disappeared.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32The minute I see the trees, I feel I am going back to childhood.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44You see the students, they are veiled.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55'In school, I was very naughty.
0:16:55 > 0:17:00'So all the teachers said, "You are like a devil, you will go to hell.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02'"You will be burned."
0:17:04 > 0:17:06'So I went to my mother, crying, and tell her,
0:17:06 > 0:17:08'"I will be burned, in fire."
0:17:08 > 0:17:10'She said, "What fire?"
0:17:12 > 0:17:14'I told her, "Fire!"
0:17:14 > 0:17:17'She said, "There is no fire."
0:17:17 > 0:17:19'So in fact I was lucky, as you said.'
0:17:24 > 0:17:25Do we go right or left?
0:17:25 > 0:17:28Both right and left is the Nile.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31Ah, look at the Nile.
0:17:31 > 0:17:35Now we can see my Nile. This is my Nile.
0:17:35 > 0:17:36Ah!
0:17:42 > 0:17:45So I used to come here and walk by the Nile and...
0:17:47 > 0:17:49..inspired by the Nile.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54But people were village people.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59Now it's like a city.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01Like a bad city.
0:18:01 > 0:18:02HORN
0:18:04 > 0:18:10THEY SPEAK OWN LANGUAGE
0:18:10 > 0:18:14- TRANSLATION:- How are you doing? - How are you, lady?
0:18:14 > 0:18:17I'm Doctor Nawal El Saadawi.
0:18:17 > 0:18:22You're welcome. You have lit up Tahla and everywhere round here.
0:18:22 > 0:18:24- Is this your daughter? - No, it's my son.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34'I loved my peasant grandmother.
0:18:34 > 0:18:38'But I hated her when she said a boy is worth 15 girls, at least.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43'Girls are a blight.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46'With a boy, the family household is kept running.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50'But girls get married and go off, leaving the father's house,'
0:18:50 > 0:18:53and their children carry the name of the men they marry.
0:18:57 > 0:18:59I would stamp on the ground and shriek,
0:18:59 > 0:19:02"I will never marry! Never, never, never, never!"
0:19:03 > 0:19:07My grandmother would laugh until the tears flowed from her eyes.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09"Marriage is your destiny, like all girls.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13"It's God's will, daughter of my son."
0:19:17 > 0:19:21I first encountered Nawal El Saadawi when I was about 13 years old.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25It was the first time I'd seen an Egyptian woman speak so honestly
0:19:25 > 0:19:27about problems that we have in Egypt.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30I felt at that time,
0:19:30 > 0:19:32"Why is this Egyptian woman telling
0:19:32 > 0:19:34"all these western people what's wrong with Egypt?"
0:19:34 > 0:19:36And so, you know, it was an early lesson in -
0:19:36 > 0:19:39this isn't about telling the outside world our secrets and that we have
0:19:39 > 0:19:41to keep all these things, you know, hidden away,
0:19:41 > 0:19:44it was more like you need courageous voices,
0:19:44 > 0:19:48you need people who will break away from all of that and tell the entire
0:19:48 > 0:19:50world, not just the West,
0:19:50 > 0:19:52who will tell the entire world that this is wrong,
0:19:52 > 0:19:54that you can't treat women like this.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57- TRANSLATION:- Hello, who are you, then?
0:19:57 > 0:20:00I am from El Deeb's family, next to you.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02Oh, El Deeb, my mother's family.
0:20:02 > 0:20:04The village has changed a lot.
0:20:04 > 0:20:06Everything's changed.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09- What's your name?- Rama Eshraf.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12How old are you?
0:20:12 > 0:20:15- I'm 13.- Right.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18I used to be just like her, in this village, long ago.
0:20:21 > 0:20:25I used to sit by the Nile thinking, "What should I do with my life?"
0:20:25 > 0:20:27What do you want to be when you grow up?
0:20:27 > 0:20:29I want to be a doctor.
0:20:29 > 0:20:30Like me!
0:20:30 > 0:20:31Yes.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36'I never dreamt of being a doctor.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43'When I was a child, I dreamt to be a dancer.'
0:20:45 > 0:20:47And this is in school.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52The theatre, they chose me to act Isis, the goddess.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58And all the village called me Isis after that.
0:21:01 > 0:21:07I should have done something with music, dancing, singing.
0:21:10 > 0:21:12But my parents, they don't accept that.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19When all that was blocked,
0:21:19 > 0:21:21all my energy went to writing.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31The minute the sun rises, she sees the green plants
0:21:31 > 0:21:34shine under its golden rays as if they are dancing.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38She glimpses Sabry from the window,
0:21:38 > 0:21:41hitting the ground with the pickaxe,
0:21:41 > 0:21:46or watering the plants and moving his hands in the water of the canal,
0:21:46 > 0:21:50or running after pigeons as he moves his arms and legs in the air.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55She fidgets as she sits at her desk to study.
0:21:58 > 0:22:02Her feet and legs do not move. They are fixed under the desk as if they
0:22:02 > 0:22:04were in metal chains.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06Nothing moves in her body.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08Her mind also does not move.
0:22:12 > 0:22:14When Souad sleeps,
0:22:14 > 0:22:17she sometimes dreams that she is flying in the air.
0:22:17 > 0:22:21Her body floats in the universe like a free, unhindered bird.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27That was from the story she wrote at 13.
0:22:27 > 0:22:30Her teacher gave her zero marks for it.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37One of the things that I appreciate the most about her,
0:22:37 > 0:22:40of course it's her feminism, it's her activism,
0:22:40 > 0:22:43but more than anything it is her creative expression,
0:22:43 > 0:22:49it's her artistic expression and how she chooses to use her artistry as
0:22:49 > 0:22:51an instrument for social change.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57She's contagious and she is dangerous
0:22:57 > 0:23:01because she does make you realise you can do anything you want.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07And you should, and that you should disobey,
0:23:07 > 0:23:09you should question,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11you should challenge,
0:23:11 > 0:23:13you should not accept what's been handed to you
0:23:13 > 0:23:16just because the generation before you said,
0:23:16 > 0:23:17"Ah, that's fine, accept it.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19"Accept it. You're a woman, it's OK.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22"You're brown, you're black, you're whatever, accept it.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24"It's just what you people are supposed to do."
0:23:24 > 0:23:27She says, "No, thank you."
0:23:27 > 0:23:33This is me and my brothers and sisters in 1938.
0:23:33 > 0:23:34I was seven.
0:23:37 > 0:23:42They preferred my brother, my brother who was one year older.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44And he failed in school
0:23:44 > 0:23:48and I was the top of school, so I was angry.
0:23:48 > 0:23:50Why he had all these privileges?
0:23:50 > 0:23:53They said, "Because you're a girl and he's a boy and that's it."
0:23:53 > 0:23:55I said, "No, it's not 'that's it.'"
0:23:55 > 0:23:58And then they said, "That's what God said."
0:23:58 > 0:24:01That's why my first letter was to God.
0:24:01 > 0:24:06I told him, "Dear God, you created me a girl
0:24:06 > 0:24:09"and you are supposed to be justice.
0:24:09 > 0:24:10"So why do you prefer my brother?
0:24:12 > 0:24:15"If you are not just, I'm not ready to believe in you."
0:24:19 > 0:24:23She is seven years old and the month of Ramadan starts.
0:24:23 > 0:24:26Fasting seems to her like a new, exquisite game.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32The best thing about it is the times for sleep and waking
0:24:32 > 0:24:33are turned upside down
0:24:33 > 0:24:36so that the night, which is for sleep,
0:24:36 > 0:24:38becomes for waking and eating.
0:24:41 > 0:24:43"Why do people fast, Father?"
0:24:43 > 0:24:45"Because God wants them to feel hungry
0:24:45 > 0:24:47"and know how the poor suffer."
0:24:49 > 0:24:52Souad thanks God because he loves them
0:24:52 > 0:24:55and did not create them poor beggars in the streets,
0:24:55 > 0:24:57like the limping old man
0:24:57 > 0:25:00that she sees on her way to school and is afraid of.
0:25:02 > 0:25:03She imagines that God hates the poor
0:25:03 > 0:25:06because he did not give them anything.
0:25:06 > 0:25:08Then why does he want us to love them,
0:25:08 > 0:25:13and give them from what he has bestowed on us?
0:25:13 > 0:25:15Why does God order that the poor fast
0:25:15 > 0:25:17when they feel hungry for the rest of the months
0:25:17 > 0:25:19and have no food to give away?
0:25:20 > 0:25:24Her father remains silent for a while and then says, "Fasting,
0:25:24 > 0:25:27"my daughter, serves many purposes, and this is God's wisdom."
0:25:31 > 0:25:36She manages to connect us to what the true struggle is.
0:25:37 > 0:25:41The inequality that is rooted in the structures of patriarchy
0:25:41 > 0:25:45and the structures of, in her words, capitalism,
0:25:45 > 0:25:48colonialism and also religious fundamentalism.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52Not just in Egypt, but across borders.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58She's so brave,
0:25:58 > 0:26:02regardless of the fact of this state throwing her into prison,
0:26:02 > 0:26:05that religious leader putting her on a death list,
0:26:05 > 0:26:09all this nation finding her to be obnoxious,
0:26:09 > 0:26:11she has still remained true to herself.
0:26:15 > 0:26:17My mother used to tell me
0:26:17 > 0:26:20about her sisters being beaten by their husbands.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25And she thinks that I am a child, I don't understand.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29But I have a memory.
0:26:29 > 0:26:30I have a memory.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43I sat with the dolls around me and told my sister stories about them.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49When the bridegroom beat the bride to death, she wept bitterly.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52Then we covered the dead body of the bride with a white sheet
0:26:52 > 0:26:55and caught hold of the bridegroom to punish him.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00This was the custom of the village.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03Every husband had to beat his bride on the wedding night
0:27:03 > 0:27:05before he did anything else.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14Nowadays, Nawal invites young people
0:27:14 > 0:27:17to discuss feminism and politics in her flat.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22- TRANSLATION:- There are no men's rights.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24Do you understand me, Doctor?
0:27:24 > 0:27:26Why women's rights?
0:27:26 > 0:27:28Why do we state only women's rights?
0:27:30 > 0:27:33Why do you place woman in a position of weakness
0:27:33 > 0:27:35and then leap to defend her?
0:27:35 > 0:27:37Who wants to answer?
0:27:37 > 0:27:39He's a bit outnumbered.
0:27:41 > 0:27:45That very day, an Egyptian MP had called for girls applying to college
0:27:45 > 0:27:48to be subjected to virginity tests.
0:27:48 > 0:27:52He's also an ardent advocate of FGM.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56- TRANSLATION:- He said that we're a nation of impotent men -
0:27:56 > 0:27:58if we stopped cutting women,
0:27:58 > 0:28:01we'd need strong men and we don't have men like that.
0:28:01 > 0:28:02So he's insulting men.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07It's terrible, even worse than virginity tests.
0:28:07 > 0:28:12Don't be offended, but most married women are sexually dissatisfied.
0:28:12 > 0:28:15That's why he demands women be cut, to curb their sexual desires,
0:28:15 > 0:28:18instead of admitting it's the men who have the problem.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26That's why women should be circumcised.
0:28:26 > 0:28:28To accommodate the sexually weak men?
0:28:28 > 0:28:31To accommodate the weakness, the sexual weakness of men.
0:28:33 > 0:28:37Ever since 1968, when Nawal wrote Woman And Sex,
0:28:37 > 0:28:41which was banned in Egypt, she's been raising questions about FGM,
0:28:41 > 0:28:43desire and virginity.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49Arab society still considers that the fine membrane
0:28:49 > 0:28:53which covers the aperture of the external genital organs
0:28:53 > 0:28:57is the most cherished and most important part of a girl's body,
0:28:57 > 0:29:02and is much more valuable than her eyes or an arm or a lower limb.
0:29:02 > 0:29:06An Arab family does not grieve as much at the loss of a girl's eye
0:29:06 > 0:29:08as it does if she happens to lose her virginity.
0:29:08 > 0:29:11In fact, if the girl lost her life,
0:29:11 > 0:29:13it would be considered less of a catastrophe
0:29:13 > 0:29:15than if she lost her hymen.
0:29:18 > 0:29:21My mother was a prisoner of motherhood...
0:29:24 > 0:29:27..because she was very ambitious.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30She wanted to be like Madame Curie,
0:29:30 > 0:29:33to ride horses, to travel, to invent.
0:29:33 > 0:29:35But all her dreams were aborted.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37That's why she encouraged me.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40She told me, "One day, Nawal, maybe Nawal,
0:29:40 > 0:29:43"you will realise my aborted dreams.
0:29:43 > 0:29:45"Maybe."
0:29:49 > 0:29:51Sometimes my mother used to weaken under pressure
0:29:51 > 0:29:55and then in addition to struggling with my father and grandmother,
0:29:55 > 0:29:58and all my aunts and uncles, I had to struggle against her.
0:29:59 > 0:30:03There was hatred in their eyes when I stood up to them.
0:30:03 > 0:30:07All except my mother - her eyes would shine with pride.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10If it were not for her, I would never have continued my education
0:30:10 > 0:30:12and become a medical student.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18"The Faculty of Medicine?"
0:30:18 > 0:30:20"Yes, medicine."
0:30:20 > 0:30:23The word had a terrifying effect on me.
0:30:23 > 0:30:25It reminded me of penetrating eyes
0:30:25 > 0:30:31moving at an amazing speed behind shiny, steel-rimmed spectacles,
0:30:31 > 0:30:36and strong, pointed fingers holding a dreadful, long, sharp needle.
0:30:39 > 0:30:43And this is in the dissecting room of the medical college.
0:30:44 > 0:30:48And on the table, we have the head and neck of a dead person...
0:30:50 > 0:30:53..and we are dissecting the brain.
0:30:53 > 0:30:55And that's you in the middle of the picture?
0:30:55 > 0:30:57I am the one, yes, who is dissecting.
0:30:57 > 0:30:59The other girls are timid.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01You know, sitting like little kids,
0:31:01 > 0:31:04and then the one who is dissecting, you know?
0:31:04 > 0:31:05Fearless.
0:31:14 > 0:31:17Medicine inspired respect, even veneration,
0:31:17 > 0:31:19in my mother and brother and father.
0:31:20 > 0:31:23I would become a doctor, then,
0:31:23 > 0:31:27wear shiny steel-rimmed spectacles,
0:31:27 > 0:31:30make my eyes move at an amazing speed behind them,
0:31:30 > 0:31:33and make my fingers strong and pointed
0:31:33 > 0:31:35to hold the dreadful, long, sharp needle.
0:31:37 > 0:31:41I'd make my mother tremble with fright and look at me reverently.
0:31:42 > 0:31:46I'd make my brother terrified and my father beg me for help.
0:31:53 > 0:31:57Nawal, who'd managed to escape being married off as a child,
0:31:57 > 0:32:01now chose to marry a fellow medical student.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04He, too, was an active anti-colonialist.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08At that time, during the '50s,
0:32:08 > 0:32:11young people were encouraged by the government
0:32:11 > 0:32:13to go to the canal to fight the British.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18I wanted to go, but they didn't accept women.
0:32:18 > 0:32:19But he went.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24They were betrayed by the government,
0:32:24 > 0:32:27who left young people to be killed by the British...
0:32:29 > 0:32:31..so he came back broken.
0:32:36 > 0:32:39I trembled whenever I heard him whisper in the night,
0:32:39 > 0:32:43"When I believed in God, in country and in love,
0:32:43 > 0:32:46"I was living three illusions, Nawal!"
0:32:46 > 0:32:50He used to stay awake all night, inject himself with drugs,
0:32:50 > 0:32:52then write one sentence -
0:32:52 > 0:32:56"God, country, love, all three just illusions" -
0:32:56 > 0:32:59cross it out and write it again.
0:33:03 > 0:33:06The marriage couldn't last.
0:33:06 > 0:33:08Nawal went back to her village
0:33:08 > 0:33:10to work in one of the health units
0:33:10 > 0:33:12that the new government, led by Nasser,
0:33:12 > 0:33:14was building around the country.
0:33:15 > 0:33:18Slowly, I can't find the unit.
0:33:18 > 0:33:19Just a minute.
0:33:22 > 0:33:23It looks like the unit.
0:33:25 > 0:33:26- TRANSLATION:- No, it's not the health unit.
0:33:26 > 0:33:28Let me see, I'll come down.
0:33:30 > 0:33:31Be careful.
0:33:34 > 0:33:37- TRANSLATION:- We are looking for the health unit where I used to work.
0:33:37 > 0:33:38It's further down.
0:33:40 > 0:33:42Can you lead us to it?
0:33:42 > 0:33:43- Yes.- You lead and we'll follow.
0:33:48 > 0:33:54- Well done.- I conquered. I conquered everything except age.
0:33:55 > 0:33:57Ah, this is it.
0:33:57 > 0:33:59This is the hospital.
0:34:00 > 0:34:06SHE SPEAKS OWN LANGUAGE
0:34:06 > 0:34:08I used to sleep in a house here.
0:34:10 > 0:34:12The house of the doctor.
0:34:14 > 0:34:18It was all surrounded by green, green fields.
0:34:18 > 0:34:19Now I cannot recognise it.
0:34:23 > 0:34:28THEY SPEAK OWN LANGUAGE
0:34:28 > 0:34:30Here is the health unit.
0:34:30 > 0:34:33I used to come here and to examine the patients.
0:34:33 > 0:34:36And they used to stand here in queues.
0:34:36 > 0:34:39Men and women. At the beginning men said, "No, never!
0:34:39 > 0:34:42"We'll never have a woman to examine us."
0:34:42 > 0:34:46And then the queue of men became longer than the queue of women.
0:34:48 > 0:34:51All society's tragedies came into my surgery.
0:34:54 > 0:34:58All the results of deception and deceit lay before me to be examined.
0:35:02 > 0:35:05Upstairs it was the in-patients.
0:35:05 > 0:35:07I used to make operations up there.
0:35:09 > 0:35:13The bitter truths which people constantly deny were stretched out
0:35:13 > 0:35:17on the operating table under my probing, cutting hands.
0:35:17 > 0:35:21This is where I worked, 60 years ago,
0:35:21 > 0:35:23in 1956.
0:35:26 > 0:35:28How many of the stories in your books
0:35:28 > 0:35:30came from the women you treated?
0:35:30 > 0:35:32Oh, many.
0:35:33 > 0:35:37Many of the patients who came here, men and women,
0:35:37 > 0:35:40they were mentioned in my work.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43Did the patients who come here... Would FGM be done here as well?
0:35:43 > 0:35:46I never did it in my life.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48Never, to boys or girls.
0:35:48 > 0:35:54Since I was a student, in the medical college, I was against it.
0:35:54 > 0:35:58The minute I saw children being cut, in front of my eyes,
0:35:58 > 0:36:01I decided I'd never do it. I never did.
0:36:06 > 0:36:08I was six years old, that night,
0:36:08 > 0:36:10when I lay in bed, warm and peaceful.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16I felt something move under the blankets,
0:36:16 > 0:36:18something like a huge hand,
0:36:18 > 0:36:21cold and rough, fumbling over my body,
0:36:21 > 0:36:24as though looking for something.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28Almost simultaneously, another hand was clamped over my mouth,
0:36:28 > 0:36:31to prevent me from screaming.
0:36:31 > 0:36:33They carried me to the bathroom.
0:36:33 > 0:36:36All I remember is that I was frightened
0:36:36 > 0:36:38and that there were many of them.
0:36:43 > 0:36:48I screamed with pain, despite the tight hand held over my mouth...
0:36:51 > 0:36:53..for the pain was not just a pain,
0:36:53 > 0:36:58it was like searing flame that went through my whole body.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00I didn't know what they had cut off from my body.
0:37:03 > 0:37:06I did not try to find out.
0:37:06 > 0:37:09I just wept and called out for my mother for help.
0:37:11 > 0:37:14But the worst shock of all was when I looked around and found,
0:37:14 > 0:37:16standing by my side.
0:37:17 > 0:37:19Yes, it was her,
0:37:19 > 0:37:22I could not be mistaken.
0:37:22 > 0:37:24In the flesh and blood,
0:37:24 > 0:37:26right in the midst of these strangers,
0:37:26 > 0:37:29talking to them and smiling at them,
0:37:29 > 0:37:35as though they had not participated in slaughtering...her daughter
0:37:35 > 0:37:37just a few moments ago.
0:37:42 > 0:37:46Oh, my God. See, even reading it after all these years, is just...
0:37:49 > 0:37:50Wow.
0:37:57 > 0:37:59I remember I read that page
0:37:59 > 0:38:03and I couldn't read the rest of the book for a couple of weeks.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05I remember thinking,
0:38:05 > 0:38:08"But this is what's happened to myself and millions of...
0:38:08 > 0:38:11"hundreds of millions of other girls," you know?
0:38:11 > 0:38:14And I think it was that moment I realised,
0:38:14 > 0:38:18if we are going to be tackling FGM, especially in the UK,
0:38:18 > 0:38:22because the UK was having a very political correctness conversation
0:38:22 > 0:38:25around this subject, I said, "What we're not doing here -
0:38:25 > 0:38:26"we're not naming it for what it is.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29"And we're not describing what this practice actually is."
0:38:29 > 0:38:33So I remember coming round in the middle of these campaigning groups,
0:38:33 > 0:38:36saying, "Actually, one thing we're not doing -
0:38:36 > 0:38:37"we're not calling this child abuse.
0:38:37 > 0:38:40"Because I notice from your documents,
0:38:40 > 0:38:42"you keep referring to this as a cultural practice,
0:38:42 > 0:38:43"as a religious practice."
0:38:43 > 0:38:46And you know, a lot of the campaigners themselves were quite
0:38:46 > 0:38:49horrified at my response to me, and they were saying,
0:38:49 > 0:38:50"Ah, Layla, you can't say this.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53"You're going to upset people. You're going to offend people."
0:38:53 > 0:38:56And I thought if Nawal, you know,
0:38:56 > 0:38:59felt this was the right thing to do back then, I'm sorry,
0:38:59 > 0:39:02we have no excuse. Nothing's changing.
0:39:07 > 0:39:10Why did you finally leave the village and the clinic?
0:39:10 > 0:39:14I used to go to the houses of the patients,
0:39:14 > 0:39:18and I used to go with my paramedical group
0:39:18 > 0:39:20to do health education.
0:39:20 > 0:39:22So the local government stopped me.
0:39:22 > 0:39:25They said, "You shouldn't educate people."
0:39:27 > 0:39:30I tell them, "I should health educate them."
0:39:30 > 0:39:33I wanted to change their mind and they didn't allow me.
0:39:33 > 0:39:35- Why not?- They told me,
0:39:35 > 0:39:38"Your work is to examine the patients and do operations.
0:39:38 > 0:39:41"That's it. Why should you go to the homes of people?
0:39:41 > 0:39:42"You are creating revolution."
0:39:47 > 0:39:52I started the Health Education Association and then they closed it.
0:39:52 > 0:39:55And I edited Health magazine, and then they closed it.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59That's why I don't believe in government.
0:39:59 > 0:40:01They are against the people.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08For Nawal, there's always a push and pull
0:40:08 > 0:40:12between the political campaigner and the quiet creator.
0:40:14 > 0:40:16This novel is tormenting me.
0:40:16 > 0:40:19I've freed myself completely to write it,
0:40:19 > 0:40:21letting everything else go for its sake.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27It's intractable, like unattainable love.
0:40:29 > 0:40:32It wants me, my entire being, mind and body,
0:40:32 > 0:40:33and if it can't have that,
0:40:33 > 0:40:35it will not give itself to me at all.
0:40:38 > 0:40:40It wants all or nothing.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42It's exactly like me.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45To the extent that I give to it, it gives to me.
0:40:49 > 0:40:53It wants no competition for my heart and mind.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56Not that of a husband, not a son or daughter,
0:40:56 > 0:41:00nor preoccupation with work of any sort.
0:41:00 > 0:41:03Not even on behalf of the women's cause.
0:41:09 > 0:41:11Your second marriage lasted only three months.
0:41:11 > 0:41:14I married him just for marriage,
0:41:14 > 0:41:16because people were pushing me.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19Pushing. Society has a lot of power.
0:41:19 > 0:41:24I was very attractive and was a successful doctor and writer.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28So this man came to marry me.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32He was a judge, he was kind.
0:41:32 > 0:41:35He told me, "You will be free to write,"
0:41:35 > 0:41:38he made everything, made promises.
0:41:38 > 0:41:43After I married him he changed and what he hated is my writing.
0:41:43 > 0:41:48The title of one of my stories was My Husband, I Do Not Love You.
0:41:49 > 0:41:53- Did he read it? - He read it and all his colleagues,
0:41:53 > 0:41:55all his colleagues read the story.
0:41:55 > 0:41:57Right!
0:41:57 > 0:41:59So he came to me, and said, "Nawal,
0:41:59 > 0:42:02"you have to choose me or your writing."
0:42:02 > 0:42:05I told him, "My writing."
0:42:05 > 0:42:06Straightforward.
0:42:07 > 0:42:11But after that he didn't want to divorce me, you know?
0:42:11 > 0:42:12He wanted revenge.
0:42:13 > 0:42:17I told him, "You give me the divorce, now.
0:42:17 > 0:42:21"Go and bring the paper or you will be killed, with my weapon."
0:42:22 > 0:42:26And I brought the weapon from my bag, my medical...
0:42:26 > 0:42:29I was a surgeon at that time, a chest surgeon.
0:42:29 > 0:42:34So I told him, "I open the chest of people so I can open your chest."
0:42:34 > 0:42:36And he was trembling!
0:42:36 > 0:42:38I'm not surprised he was trembling!
0:42:38 > 0:42:40Because I was serious.
0:42:40 > 0:42:44So he lost - he lost because he was afraid.
0:42:44 > 0:42:47But if he was brave enough and stood and said, "Kill me,"
0:42:47 > 0:42:50I will never do it, you know?
0:42:50 > 0:42:52So, it's a matter of power.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59When, later, she visited the women's prison,
0:42:59 > 0:43:02while researching women's mental health,
0:43:02 > 0:43:05Nawal met a woman who really had killed a man.
0:43:06 > 0:43:10She was the inspiration for Nawal's best-known and most powerful novel.
0:43:13 > 0:43:18Every single man I got to know filled me with but one desire -
0:43:18 > 0:43:22to lift my hand and bring it smashing down on his face.
0:43:25 > 0:43:26She was a remarkable woman.
0:43:28 > 0:43:30I never forget her eyes.
0:43:31 > 0:43:33The killer, you know?
0:43:33 > 0:43:36She was a prostitute who had killed her pimp.
0:43:36 > 0:43:41Yes - but she is not a prostitute and is not a killer.
0:43:41 > 0:43:44- Right.- To my mind.- Yeah.
0:43:44 > 0:43:48Because I could have been like her, if I lived her life.
0:43:49 > 0:43:52I could have killed the pimp, exactly like her.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54I was about to kill my husband.
0:43:55 > 0:43:58She killed the pimp to save her life.
0:43:59 > 0:44:00She was a very...
0:44:00 > 0:44:05A woman who kept her word, very straight, very honest.
0:44:05 > 0:44:07She never told lies.
0:44:07 > 0:44:11But she was forced to be a prostitute.
0:44:15 > 0:44:17The woman had been abused by her uncle
0:44:17 > 0:44:19and married off to a violent old man.
0:44:19 > 0:44:22At first, prostitution was a liberation.
0:44:25 > 0:44:28I knew that my profession had been invented by men
0:44:28 > 0:44:31and that men were in control of both our worlds -
0:44:31 > 0:44:33the one on earth and the one in heaven.
0:44:36 > 0:44:39That men force women to sell their bodies at a price,
0:44:39 > 0:44:42and that the lowest paid body is that of a wife.
0:44:42 > 0:44:45All women are prostitutes of one kind or another.
0:44:47 > 0:44:49Because I was intelligent,
0:44:49 > 0:44:53I preferred to be a free prostitute rather than an enslaved wife.
0:44:55 > 0:44:58But this, too, ended in violence.
0:45:00 > 0:45:04The doctor of the prison brought her a paper and pen and told her,
0:45:04 > 0:45:08"Write to the head of the state to forgive you."
0:45:10 > 0:45:12But she never wrote.
0:45:12 > 0:45:15She said, "Never. I write the president?
0:45:15 > 0:45:17"No!
0:45:18 > 0:45:21"I don't want to live any more."
0:45:23 > 0:45:28Suddenly the door was thrown open, revealing several armed policemen.
0:45:28 > 0:45:30They surrounded her in a circle
0:45:30 > 0:45:34and I heard one of them say, "Let's go, your time has come."
0:45:34 > 0:45:37I saw her walk out with them.
0:45:37 > 0:45:38I never saw her again.
0:45:38 > 0:45:43But her voice continued to echo in my ears, vibrating in my head,
0:45:43 > 0:45:47in the cell, in the prison, in the streets,
0:45:47 > 0:45:50spreading fear wherever it went.
0:45:50 > 0:45:54The fear of the truth which kills, the power of truth,
0:45:54 > 0:45:56as awesome as death
0:45:56 > 0:45:59yet as simple and as gentle as the child
0:45:59 > 0:46:02that has not yet learned to lie.
0:46:02 > 0:46:06And because the world was full of lies, she had to pay the price.
0:46:08 > 0:46:11I got into my little car, my eyes on the ground.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14Inside of me was a feeling of shame.
0:46:14 > 0:46:20I felt ashamed of myself, of my life, of my fears and my lies,
0:46:20 > 0:46:26and at that moment I realised that she had more courage than I.
0:46:31 > 0:46:35And still, today, there are cases which are not dissimilar.
0:46:35 > 0:46:38Things change very slowly,
0:46:38 > 0:46:43and especially cultural attitudes change very slowly,
0:46:43 > 0:46:47so that shouldn't really surprise us.
0:46:47 > 0:46:52What probably should surprise us is that the book was written at all.
0:46:55 > 0:46:59Nawal went on to marry for a third time.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02This time it lasted for 40 years.
0:47:02 > 0:47:05When they met, her husband had been imprisoned for 15 years.
0:47:07 > 0:47:09He, too, was a writer and activist.
0:47:13 > 0:47:17When Israel invaded Egypt in 1967,
0:47:17 > 0:47:20Nawal volunteered to go to the front with a group of doctors.
0:47:23 > 0:47:26I heard a sharp, long, drawn-out piercing noise,
0:47:26 > 0:47:27followed by an explosion.
0:47:27 > 0:47:30Then the explosions seemed to multiply.
0:47:30 > 0:47:33The wall of the hospital crumbled and flames shot up.
0:47:35 > 0:47:37I could hear my mother's voice saying,
0:47:37 > 0:47:40"Throw Nawal into the fire and she will come back unhurt."
0:47:42 > 0:47:44It seemed to me as though
0:47:44 > 0:47:46I was the only person in the shelter still alive
0:47:46 > 0:47:49and that it was my turn to die next.
0:47:49 > 0:47:52The Israelis had in fact overrun the whole of Sinai
0:47:52 > 0:47:54and reached the Suez Canal in five days.
0:47:58 > 0:48:01It seemed as though we were cornered,
0:48:01 > 0:48:03that they would not stop until they had finished us off.
0:48:04 > 0:48:09I was covered in dust and pieces of brick as I lay on the floor.
0:48:09 > 0:48:12There was a table with a TV on it which continued to broadcast.
0:48:14 > 0:48:15I could glimpse a woman belly dancing,
0:48:15 > 0:48:18or a man singing soulful love songs.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20It was like a dream, or a nightmare.
0:48:28 > 0:48:33Nasser's successor, Sadat, took over the country in 1970.
0:48:33 > 0:48:35He made peace with Israel.
0:48:35 > 0:48:39Nawal and Sadat were always at loggerheads.
0:48:39 > 0:48:41She came to his notice when she was Secretary General
0:48:41 > 0:48:44of the Medical Association.
0:48:44 > 0:48:46He hated me.
0:48:46 > 0:48:51He made a meeting with us and with the intellectuals in Egypt...
0:48:52 > 0:48:56..and Sadat came almost three hours late,
0:48:56 > 0:49:01and he started to give us a lesson about 'time is so precious.'
0:49:01 > 0:49:06Can you imagine? So I stood up, I said, "I want to speak."
0:49:06 > 0:49:09My boss, he said, "Nawal, shut up! Nawal, shut up!"
0:49:09 > 0:49:14Then I said to Sadat, "You came late, you didn't apologise.
0:49:14 > 0:49:17"And then you tell us how time is so precious?"
0:49:17 > 0:49:18You had the nerve to say that?
0:49:18 > 0:49:22I had the courage...because I was angry.
0:49:22 > 0:49:23He hated me for that.
0:49:25 > 0:49:28- ARCHIVE:- The president's formidable security force moved in
0:49:28 > 0:49:30to detain religious leaders.
0:49:30 > 0:49:32Opposition newspapers were closed down
0:49:32 > 0:49:36and journalists and politicians detained in a sweeping operation.
0:49:36 > 0:49:38It is a purge.
0:49:38 > 0:49:42The police put the people who were politically active,
0:49:42 > 0:49:43and my name was not there.
0:49:43 > 0:49:46So when they took the list to Sadat,
0:49:46 > 0:49:49he said, "Where is Nawal El Saadawi?
0:49:49 > 0:49:52"Give me a pen." He added my name with his writing!
0:49:55 > 0:49:59When you are really in danger, you don't feel it,
0:49:59 > 0:50:00because you become part of danger.
0:50:01 > 0:50:03So you are part of the fear.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09But after that you become frightened!
0:50:09 > 0:50:10You know?
0:50:13 > 0:50:16"Where did the officer go?" I asked the guard.
0:50:16 > 0:50:18"Don't you know what's going to happen next?"
0:50:19 > 0:50:23The man replied, "These things all happen by God's hand.
0:50:23 > 0:50:26"You no longer have control over your situation,
0:50:26 > 0:50:27"someone else does.
0:50:29 > 0:50:30"There is no point thinking,
0:50:30 > 0:50:33"there are people who are doing your thinking for you."
0:50:34 > 0:50:37The key turned in the door three times,
0:50:37 > 0:50:41and the silence, like a single continuous scream, invaded my ear.
0:50:43 > 0:50:44Had I fallen to the bottom of a well?
0:50:48 > 0:50:51So you were sharing a prison cell with 20 other women?
0:50:51 > 0:50:55Ah, yes. Islamic fundamentalists and Marxists, and myself,
0:50:55 > 0:50:57the independent writer!
0:50:59 > 0:51:00So there really was this split
0:51:00 > 0:51:04- between fundamentalists and Marxists?- Yes, yes.
0:51:04 > 0:51:06Did you have discussions?
0:51:06 > 0:51:09Of course, we had debates all the time.
0:51:09 > 0:51:10I spent three months, only -
0:51:10 > 0:51:13three months, but it's like 30 years.
0:51:15 > 0:51:19The richness, I advise you to go to prison!
0:51:21 > 0:51:23Really, I advise you.
0:51:23 > 0:51:25It's a world of difference.
0:51:26 > 0:51:28And it's so deep.
0:51:29 > 0:51:32You see the other face of the coin.
0:51:34 > 0:51:36You see the other face of life.
0:51:36 > 0:51:38The other face of death, of the whole world.
0:51:40 > 0:51:45I wrote one of my best books in prison, on toilet paper.
0:51:45 > 0:51:47- You wrote it on toilet paper? - On toilet paper -
0:51:47 > 0:51:51with the eyebrow pencil of a prostitute.
0:51:51 > 0:51:56Prostitutes were allowed toilet paper, we were not allowed -
0:51:56 > 0:51:57the political prisoners -
0:51:57 > 0:51:59because they were afraid we would write on it.
0:51:59 > 0:52:01Yes.
0:52:01 > 0:52:05The jailer comes every day to me and tells me, "If I find paper and pen,
0:52:05 > 0:52:09"it's more dangerous than if I find a gun."
0:52:13 > 0:52:16Suddenly the warden called out, "Have you heard the news?"
0:52:16 > 0:52:19"What news?" "Sadat - they've shot him."
0:52:22 > 0:52:26Everyone breathes the question in unison - "And he died?"
0:52:26 > 0:52:28"I don't know."
0:52:29 > 0:52:34"If he's alive," someone shrieked, "we'll all be butchered.
0:52:34 > 0:52:36"He'll take his revenge on us."
0:52:41 > 0:52:45Sadat had been killed by fundamentalists in his own army.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49And if Sadat had not been killed,
0:52:49 > 0:52:52you could have spent your life in jail,
0:52:52 > 0:52:54- you could have been just killed. - Until today.
0:52:54 > 0:52:56We could have stayed until today.
0:52:59 > 0:53:02Mubarak was beside Sadat when he was shot,
0:53:02 > 0:53:07and then became president himself for nearly 30 years.
0:53:07 > 0:53:13I ran against Mubarak in 2005, but the police stopped me.
0:53:13 > 0:53:16- They wouldn't let you run against Mubarak?- No.
0:53:16 > 0:53:20Mubarak wanted to use us as candidates to say to the world,
0:53:20 > 0:53:22"We have democracy."
0:53:22 > 0:53:24I wanted to believe him.
0:53:24 > 0:53:29Of course I didn't believe him, but I said, "OK, let me test it."
0:53:29 > 0:53:33I entered just to say a woman can do it.
0:53:33 > 0:53:35A woman can do it.
0:53:35 > 0:53:37I just made a point.
0:53:43 > 0:53:48In 2011, revolution broke out on Cairo's Tahrir Square.
0:53:48 > 0:53:50It brought down Mubarak.
0:53:53 > 0:53:58Nawal links the consciousness of her generation to a younger one.
0:53:58 > 0:54:00For many of them she is a beacon.
0:54:01 > 0:54:05Six years on, despite disappointments,
0:54:05 > 0:54:09young people she met on the square are keeping the fire smouldering.
0:54:10 > 0:54:14They have started a forum, a monthly public meeting,
0:54:14 > 0:54:17to discuss ideas which Nawal pioneered.
0:54:18 > 0:54:21Just two weeks before this meeting,
0:54:21 > 0:54:24a writer was killed by Islamic fundamentalists in Jordan.
0:54:25 > 0:54:30Accused of blasphemy, he was shot on the steps of the court.
0:54:35 > 0:54:37SHE SPEAKS IN ARABIC
0:54:37 > 0:54:40- TRANSLATION:- When I'm warned that I'm threatened with death,
0:54:40 > 0:54:43I say that's normal.
0:54:43 > 0:54:45It's good that I wasn't killed a long time ago.
0:54:46 > 0:54:48It's normal.
0:54:49 > 0:54:51Because when you challenge society's values like this,
0:54:51 > 0:54:53you constitute a danger.
0:54:53 > 0:54:56But what if no-one did anything?
0:54:56 > 0:54:57We must all have this courage.
0:55:00 > 0:55:04At these meetings, members of the audience come up to give testimony.
0:55:05 > 0:55:08- TRANSLATION:- I went through a lot.
0:55:09 > 0:55:11Family violence.
0:55:11 > 0:55:14And I felt I was not a human being with the right to say yes or no.
0:55:17 > 0:55:19I've read many of your works.
0:55:19 > 0:55:21They empowered me in many ways.
0:55:23 > 0:55:27Problems arose when my daughter turned 15,
0:55:27 > 0:55:29and was forced to wear the hijab.
0:55:30 > 0:55:33She told me that she feels she's 30.
0:55:34 > 0:55:37I said, "Take it off and don't tell your father."
0:55:38 > 0:55:41And I refused to wear the hijab, too.
0:55:41 > 0:55:43My mum told me to put it on again.
0:55:47 > 0:55:51I said, I made the scarves I used to wear into a blouse.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53APPLAUSE
0:55:58 > 0:56:01'I wrote from my own research,
0:56:01 > 0:56:06'and my rebelliousness and anger at a society that cut me.
0:56:09 > 0:56:13'Through my anger I wanted to say something to society,
0:56:13 > 0:56:17'so that girls in the future get some protection
0:56:17 > 0:56:21'from this symbolic as well as real killing and rape.
0:56:22 > 0:56:25'All my writing stemmed from my childhood.
0:56:25 > 0:56:29'From the shocks I suffered during childhood.
0:56:29 > 0:56:30'Awareness comes from shock.'
0:56:46 > 0:56:48For the girls, and boys, of the future,
0:56:48 > 0:56:51Nawal has helped build a library in her village.
0:56:52 > 0:56:56- TRANSLATION:- This is the library I spent five years building.
0:56:58 > 0:57:00This was my dream. Come.
0:57:03 > 0:57:06- TRANSLATION:- I was once in your place in this village
0:57:06 > 0:57:09and used to dream of having a library in town,
0:57:09 > 0:57:12so that boys and girls like you would come to read.
0:57:13 > 0:57:15Now, that dream's come true.
0:57:17 > 0:57:19That's why reading is important -
0:57:19 > 0:57:21it forms the mind.
0:57:23 > 0:57:27Well done. And I hope when you grow up you'll remember me.
0:57:27 > 0:57:29Thank you. Let's go home.
0:57:30 > 0:57:32Let's see the garden.
0:57:36 > 0:57:38It's nice.
0:57:46 > 0:57:48It's very beautiful.
0:57:51 > 0:57:53SHE SPEAKS IN ARABIC
0:57:56 > 0:57:59Time is precious, you should go to have lunch and study.
0:57:59 > 0:58:01Who's leaving first?
0:58:01 > 0:58:03THEY CHEER
0:58:03 > 0:58:04Off you go, run!
0:58:22 > 0:58:24Are you very disciplined about how you write,
0:58:24 > 0:58:28- or do you just write when you feel you want to write?- When I feel.
0:58:28 > 0:58:30But I feel I want to write every day!
0:58:33 > 0:58:35I write almost every day -
0:58:35 > 0:58:37and sometimes the whole day.
0:58:39 > 0:58:42Even when I am talking to you, I'm writing -
0:58:42 > 0:58:46because I'm remembering, remembering, remembering.
0:58:47 > 0:58:51So it's full-time, writing is a full-time job.
0:58:54 > 0:58:56HE SINGS IN ARABIC