0:00:02 > 0:00:04'The National Trust has more than four million members.
0:00:04 > 0:00:08'It's Britain's largest landowner.
0:00:08 > 0:00:10'As English as cream teas.
0:00:10 > 0:00:12'Or is it?
0:00:13 > 0:00:17'Because it all began in Wales,
0:00:17 > 0:00:20'where it continues to look after the treasures
0:00:20 > 0:00:22'of this beautiful country.
0:00:22 > 0:00:26'But I want to find out what the future holds
0:00:26 > 0:00:29'for this guardian of our shared past.'
0:00:31 > 0:00:34Abermawr in Pembrokeshire.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37It's a spectacular piece of Welsh coastline.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41It's also National Trust coastline.
0:00:41 > 0:00:49They own 157 miles of seaboard in Wales.
0:00:49 > 0:00:51That's one sixth of the total.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56They look after sea walls and also the wildlife.
0:00:57 > 0:00:59They conserve the land,
0:00:59 > 0:01:03but they have to encourage visitors to come onto it.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06They look after archaeological sites,
0:01:06 > 0:01:09but they have to look out for rising sea levels.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12And all this is contradictory.
0:01:12 > 0:01:18So, is National Trust Wales heading into rough waters?
0:01:32 > 0:01:37'In order to answer this question, we have to begin at the beginning.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42'I'm in Barmouth, on the north Wales coast,
0:01:42 > 0:01:48'where the bequest that started the whole organisation was made in 1895.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51'And it wasn't a stately home.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54'It was essentially a piece of cliff.'
0:01:54 > 0:02:00Four-and-a-half acres were given by Fanny Talbot.
0:02:00 > 0:02:04And she wanted, she said, to give it to a society
0:02:04 > 0:02:06that would never vulgarise it
0:02:06 > 0:02:11or prevent wild nature having its way.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14A sentiment that rather sums up
0:02:14 > 0:02:17the purpose of the National Trust even today.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23'Richard Neale is a National Trust ranger
0:02:23 > 0:02:28'and has spent over 20 years working on this coastline.'
0:02:28 > 0:02:31- Two things are rather wonderful. - Yes.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35- The first is that they started with 4.5 acres.- Yes, yes.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39- And the second is that it was in Wales.- Yes, exactly.
0:02:39 > 0:02:44We think of the National Trust as quintessentially English,
0:02:44 > 0:02:46but it's not quintessentially English at all.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48No. No, absolutely.
0:02:48 > 0:02:49The roots of the Trust are here.
0:02:49 > 0:02:51We've always appreciated the landscape.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54Our poetry, our folklore, our music
0:02:54 > 0:02:57has always paid tribute to the beauty of the landscape.
0:02:57 > 0:03:02And the visitors that have come in have also been inspired.
0:03:02 > 0:03:03'After the death of her husband,
0:03:03 > 0:03:07'Fanny Talbot devoted herself to philanthropic work.
0:03:07 > 0:03:12'She greatly admired the efforts of her friends Octavia Hill,
0:03:12 > 0:03:15'Robert Hunter and Canon Rawnsley,
0:03:15 > 0:03:17'who'd set up an association dedicated to
0:03:17 > 0:03:20'places of historic interest and natural beauty.'
0:03:20 > 0:03:23There were places that were so important
0:03:23 > 0:03:26to our wellbeing as a nation
0:03:26 > 0:03:30that they deserved to be sort of set aside
0:03:30 > 0:03:32and looked after and cared for forever.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38'Fanny believed this organisation had been born in the nick of time.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42'And her gift of 4.5 acres of rugged hillside
0:03:42 > 0:03:45'expressed her faith in their ideals.'
0:03:45 > 0:03:47Tell me about Fanny Talbot, then.
0:03:47 > 0:03:51Well, she moved here in the 1860s and she was a friend
0:03:51 > 0:03:55of some of the pioneers of the conservation movement.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57And in her time here,
0:03:57 > 0:04:01she saw Barmouth being completely transformed.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04The railway arrived here in 1870s, 1880s.
0:04:04 > 0:04:10So during her time here, what was the little quarryman's village
0:04:10 > 0:04:15turned into a noisy Victorian and then Edwardian resort.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18She could see really, here, the pressures,
0:04:18 > 0:04:20even here on Wild West coast,
0:04:20 > 0:04:24the pressures that our land and our coast especially was under.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28'The organisation was founded as a response
0:04:28 > 0:04:34'to the unprecedented change brought about by the Industrial Revolution.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36'Fanny's gift ignited it.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40'And in 1907, an Act of Parliament bestowed unique powers
0:04:40 > 0:04:44'which enabled the National Trust to own property in perpetuity
0:04:44 > 0:04:46'for the benefit of the nation.'
0:04:49 > 0:04:51To the Victorians who founded the National Trust,
0:04:51 > 0:04:53there was a moral dimension to what they were doing
0:04:53 > 0:04:58in as much as they wanted people to come to the countryside
0:04:58 > 0:05:00because they thought it was better for them.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02They thought that the great cities
0:05:02 > 0:05:05represented a sort of Satanic development
0:05:05 > 0:05:08and that if people could come out into the countryside
0:05:08 > 0:05:12and see and enjoy nature and this world,
0:05:12 > 0:05:17they would become better people as a result.
0:05:17 > 0:05:22Now, since then, we've added a few other important moral dimensions
0:05:22 > 0:05:26to the idea of the countryside and places like this.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28We want to preserve the ecology.
0:05:28 > 0:05:34We also have an idea, a very important, strong belief
0:05:34 > 0:05:38that we need to preserve the history and the past.
0:05:38 > 0:05:43And that adds to the complexity of looking after these places.
0:05:43 > 0:05:47'Justin Albert is the Director of the Trust in Wales.
0:05:47 > 0:05:52'It's his job to steer them through this rather complicated business.'
0:05:52 > 0:05:54I think people presume we open and close houses.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57That our job is to open a house, let people in and close it
0:05:57 > 0:06:00and serve scones and cream teas at the end of the day.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03And that's fine. We give that service to our members
0:06:03 > 0:06:05and I'm overjoyed, I'll do it every day.
0:06:05 > 0:06:06But we do so much more.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10And getting members to understand and learn the conservation,
0:06:10 > 0:06:14the heritage assets we look after, the storytelling we do,
0:06:14 > 0:06:16that is one of my goals.
0:06:17 > 0:06:21'And there are a lot of stories to tell.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24'After Fanny's original fairly modest contribution,
0:06:24 > 0:06:26'more places were acquired.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30'And over the next 70 years, the Trust steadily accumulated
0:06:30 > 0:06:34'not just land around the edges of Wales, but farms, too,
0:06:34 > 0:06:37'and ancient monuments and cottages.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40'It was all bit piecemeal. A bit random.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43'There didn't seem to be much of a plan.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45'However, in the 1960s,
0:06:45 > 0:06:47'concern about developments along the coastline
0:06:47 > 0:06:50'caused them to take a closer look.'
0:06:56 > 0:06:5750 years ago, the process
0:06:57 > 0:07:00of acquiring beautiful coastline like this
0:07:00 > 0:07:03took on a new purposefulness
0:07:03 > 0:07:09when the Trust commissioned a report from Dr John Whittow.
0:07:09 > 0:07:14'Whittow's team collected evidence which shocked everybody.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17'They discovered that every year,
0:07:17 > 0:07:20'over six miles of beautiful coastline around Britain
0:07:20 > 0:07:24'was being eaten up by the very thing Fanny Talbot had dreaded.
0:07:24 > 0:07:29'Developments that prevented wild nature from having its way.'
0:07:29 > 0:07:33The coast of Britain, it was realised quite quickly,
0:07:33 > 0:07:37was being overdeveloped with no planning constraints at all.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41And people could build by and take apart the coast.
0:07:41 > 0:07:43And a very clever bunch of people
0:07:43 > 0:07:45within the National Trust in those days
0:07:45 > 0:07:47said, "OK, let's start a fund.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49"A campaign to save the British coast."
0:07:49 > 0:07:54And over the last 50 years, we've generated a lot of money
0:07:54 > 0:07:56from donations from individuals.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59And we have acquired coastline
0:07:59 > 0:08:01around the British Isles. A lot of it in Wales.
0:08:07 > 0:08:11'They were trying to preserve more places like this, Mwnt,
0:08:11 > 0:08:14'which they acquired in 1963.
0:08:14 > 0:08:19'158 acres of coastal landscape covered in grassland and heath
0:08:19 > 0:08:21'with a sheltered cove, which is home to
0:08:21 > 0:08:25'the largest bottle-nosed dolphin population in Europe.'
0:08:33 > 0:08:36No, I think I've gone wrong here.
0:08:36 > 0:08:38This is a farm.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40'Perhaps a little too sheltered.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43'Visiting in the early spring, I have trouble finding it.'
0:08:47 > 0:08:49I'm utterly lost.
0:08:50 > 0:08:54Every road in this area is signposted, "Mwnt."
0:08:55 > 0:08:59'Over 100,000 visitors a year make their way here.
0:08:59 > 0:09:04'All coming and going by car along this single-track road.'
0:09:05 > 0:09:08Sometimes, in the summer,
0:09:08 > 0:09:14this becomes a rural gridlock as a result.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18But you have to applaud that, in a way.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24If this became a four-lane highway to the sea,
0:09:24 > 0:09:28it would rather defeat the purpose of the National Trust owning it.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31'The need here is to maintain this piece of coastline's
0:09:31 > 0:09:34'unique and inaccessible beauty.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36'But that's sometimes at odds
0:09:36 > 0:09:39'with another one of the Trust's values,
0:09:39 > 0:09:42'as I discovered for myself on the way there.'
0:09:46 > 0:09:49One of the principles of the National Trust
0:09:49 > 0:09:53is for everyone forever.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56Access was what it was founded on.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59The whole idea of any National Trust property
0:09:59 > 0:10:05is that people should be able to come here and enjoy it.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09I honestly didn't set this up.
0:10:09 > 0:10:13This is all just rubbish that I happened to find.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16But it's really not possible
0:10:16 > 0:10:20to have unlimited access for human beings
0:10:20 > 0:10:26without there being...a...cost.
0:10:35 > 0:10:39When Rhodri Morgan, the former head of the Welsh government,
0:10:39 > 0:10:42said that this was his favourite place in Wales,
0:10:42 > 0:10:45visitor numbers increased dramatically.
0:10:45 > 0:10:48And now we're here, of course, with the television.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50Apres nous, le deluge.
0:10:50 > 0:10:54Especially if the weather improves.
0:10:54 > 0:11:00'When the deluge is over, you can't swing a cat here.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04'But out of season, you'd better bring a dog.
0:11:14 > 0:11:19'They can certainly shift a load of ice cream here on a sunny weekend.
0:11:19 > 0:11:23'How much does that commercialise this patch of wild nature?'
0:11:26 > 0:11:29Isn't there an element of a pact with the devil here?
0:11:29 > 0:11:32The more you provide, the more people are going to come
0:11:32 > 0:11:37and effectively, the more depredation they're going to make.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39I'd love to have that problem in more places,
0:11:39 > 0:11:41of too many people trying to get outdoors.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45The problem we have is not enough people go outdoors.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47We... People park their cars,
0:11:47 > 0:11:50walk 200 yards, get back in their car and leave.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52I want the problems of too many people,
0:11:52 > 0:11:54I want the problems of right to roam,
0:11:54 > 0:11:56but I fear unless we do something more dramatic,
0:11:56 > 0:11:59we're still not going to have enough people
0:11:59 > 0:12:01experiencing and loving the outdoors.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04So if it gets to the point at Mwnt or somewhere else
0:12:04 > 0:12:06that we have too many people there, great!
0:12:06 > 0:12:08We have to change the messaging.
0:12:08 > 0:12:10Say, "If you love the outdoors here, go down the road.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12"If you love the outdoors, try the Brecon Beacons,
0:12:12 > 0:12:15"try the Cambrian Mountains, try Snowdonia!"
0:12:15 > 0:12:18Once we've got you hooked on that, boy, we have you for life.
0:12:18 > 0:12:24Yeah, we've got a few bits, but not loads and loads, I'll be honest.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26'Gwen Potter is the ranger here.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28'One of 57 National Trust Wales employees
0:12:28 > 0:12:31'working along this coastline all year round.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33'She looks after a team of volunteers,
0:12:33 > 0:12:38'as well as the toilets, the paths and the wildlife.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41'And she's on the front line when it comes to visitor feedback.'
0:12:41 > 0:12:43"Lovely beach, but needs bins
0:12:43 > 0:12:46"to dispose of dog business and rubbish."
0:12:46 > 0:12:50But we don't put bins down here because we tend to find that
0:12:50 > 0:12:54we get loads more rubbish than just bits and bobs.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57We get household rubbish, as well, coming down here.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00'This is one of the ironies.
0:13:00 > 0:13:02'If there are bins in a place like Mwnt,
0:13:02 > 0:13:06'it attracts more rubbish, not less.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08'And don't they, as Fanny Talbot might say,
0:13:08 > 0:13:10'vulgarise it, anyway?
0:13:14 > 0:13:18'According to Gwen, 99% of visitors respect this place,
0:13:18 > 0:13:22'but unfortunately, the remaining 1% leave their mark.'
0:13:22 > 0:13:24We've had some at some beaches
0:13:24 > 0:13:28where, um...they will come and they might drive onto the beach
0:13:28 > 0:13:31and then they'll leave loads and loads of litter.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33That's the worse you can get, really,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36is someone who comes and lets their dog off the lead maybe,
0:13:36 > 0:13:38maybe there's a seal on the beach
0:13:38 > 0:13:40and they let their dog go and attack the seal.
0:13:40 > 0:13:45We've had dogs chasing sheep off the cliff and that kind of thing.
0:13:45 > 0:13:49So you do get that, but it's a very small minority of people.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51But it does cause problems, yeah.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54'But should we get hung up about visitor numbers here?
0:13:54 > 0:13:58'Because people have always come to this place.'
0:13:58 > 0:14:01Long before the first picnic hamper arrived,
0:14:01 > 0:14:05the pilgrims were here at Mwnt.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08'And before them, there were farmers and settlers,
0:14:08 > 0:14:11'travellers and herdsmen.'
0:14:11 > 0:14:16There is nowhere in Great Britain which is purely natural.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20It's all formed. It all has its look
0:14:20 > 0:14:24as a result of a relationship between humankind and nature.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31So we might look along the coast and think this is all quite natural.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34Doesn't it look after itself?
0:14:34 > 0:14:38If this was left, most of it would be woodland
0:14:38 > 0:14:42and then the tops probably would just be completely covered in gorse.
0:14:42 > 0:14:43And that's all you'd have.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46So you do need to manage, particularly in Britain,
0:14:46 > 0:14:47you need to manage your wild places.
0:14:47 > 0:14:53'So what Gwen and I are looking at here is largely created by mankind.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57'The worn cliffs, the dark scrub and the cropped fields
0:14:57 > 0:15:01'have evolved over thousands of years of pasturing.'
0:15:01 > 0:15:04The spirit of each place is very different.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08Some places are very much, um...sort of associated with people.
0:15:08 > 0:15:10Somewhere like here, for example.
0:15:10 > 0:15:14And you do need to take into account the history of a place.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18But then, somewhere else, you may not have that human interaction
0:15:18 > 0:15:20that you've had in other places.
0:15:20 > 0:15:24So then you can consider more, um...the wildlife, perhaps.
0:15:26 > 0:15:28'Here in Mwnt, the appearance of a landscape
0:15:28 > 0:15:30'shaped by both nature and people
0:15:30 > 0:15:34'is maintained through the use of specific livestock.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36'Different animals do different jobs on the land.'
0:15:38 > 0:15:40The types of species you get here, you want sheep,
0:15:40 > 0:15:43whereas other places, you may not want sheep,
0:15:43 > 0:15:44you may want a completely different thing,
0:15:44 > 0:15:46like a cow, or you might want a pony.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50They just basically eat everything.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53And what it means is you get this kind of very short turf,
0:15:53 > 0:15:56which some of our species love, such as the choughs.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58And the choughs? What are choughs?
0:15:58 > 0:16:04Choughs are a lovely, lovely crow that used to be all over the UK.
0:16:05 > 0:16:08What's the difference if you have, say, horses?
0:16:08 > 0:16:12Well, ponies, they will actually eat in a completely different way.
0:16:12 > 0:16:16So they'll kind of go around and only eat particular things.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19They will eat things like gorse, get rid of some of the bracken.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22They won't necessarily eat it, but they'll stir it up.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25And they also poo in a different way to other stock, as well.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27So they'll actually have latrine sites
0:16:27 > 0:16:29that they go back to repeatedly.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32And you get your rank grasses there,
0:16:32 > 0:16:35then the rest of the place isn't overly fertilised, like a cow would do.
0:16:35 > 0:16:39So what we're looking at, a cow has a completely different regime entirely
0:16:39 > 0:16:41and they eat different things and poo in different places.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43Of course, nature, or the nature
0:16:43 > 0:16:46we understand as being part of the British Isles,
0:16:46 > 0:16:48interacts with these other animals,
0:16:48 > 0:16:51their droppings and the grasses, too,
0:16:51 > 0:16:53and the things that grow there,
0:16:53 > 0:16:56the other animals that relate to the insects.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59So effectively, what you're managing
0:16:59 > 0:17:02is a huge sort of universe of life here.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05Yeah. That's a nice way of putting it. Yeah, I would agree. Yeah.
0:17:07 > 0:17:08'Human beings, though, relate
0:17:08 > 0:17:11'to this eco-universe in a different way.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15'Their droppings are not appreciated in the landscape.
0:17:15 > 0:17:19'They need a building where they can be private.'
0:17:19 > 0:17:24If I were being a little bit sour about the National Trust,
0:17:24 > 0:17:26and some people can be sour about the National Trust
0:17:26 > 0:17:28and everything they do,
0:17:28 > 0:17:31to get some form of complaint, you could say
0:17:31 > 0:17:35that here's a toilet block, a necessary toilet block
0:17:35 > 0:17:39very discretely done and then absolutely plastered
0:17:39 > 0:17:42with signs and instructions.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46There's this for people who need
0:17:46 > 0:17:49gender distinctions of diminished stature,
0:17:49 > 0:17:52but up here, we have it again
0:17:52 > 0:17:54for people who may be of extended stature.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01'And when you've stopped counting toilet signs,
0:18:01 > 0:18:03'you're bombarded by all the organisations
0:18:03 > 0:18:06'that have put money into the project.'
0:18:06 > 0:18:07What about signs?
0:18:07 > 0:18:11We come down there and find the EU has put some money into a bit of it
0:18:11 > 0:18:15and the European Union insists on having a plaque up
0:18:15 > 0:18:18that says the European Union has done something to help this.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22Along comes the council, they've put a little bit of money into it,
0:18:22 > 0:18:26they want a plaque, as well, saying, "We've put some money into this!"
0:18:26 > 0:18:29And so does the Heritage Lottery. Can you do anything about that?
0:18:29 > 0:18:33I-I-I-I-I don't mind the plaques as long as I have the money.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36I don't have enough money to do everything I want.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38And they can have their plaques, they can put them on the side
0:18:38 > 0:18:41and they can have dancing girls outside to hold the plaques.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43If I get the million pounds, I'll take them
0:18:43 > 0:18:46because the liabilities of what we have here are enormous.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48So, yes, I'll put up with the little plaques.
0:18:50 > 0:18:52'The countryside is open to everyone.
0:18:52 > 0:18:56'Unlike the houses and castles, the Trust don't charge an entrance fee,
0:18:56 > 0:18:58'just for parking.'
0:18:59 > 0:19:01Does it actually wash its face?
0:19:01 > 0:19:04Does the car park...? As they say in...
0:19:04 > 0:19:07- Does it cover its...? - Yeah, does it cover its costs?
0:19:07 > 0:19:09Um...I'm trying to think.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12No, it doesn't. No, no, it doesn't.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14So the money that's made from the car park,
0:19:14 > 0:19:16it doesn't actually pay for the amount of money that's required
0:19:16 > 0:19:18just to look after this place?
0:19:18 > 0:19:20Not even close. But it does help.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23It's £3.00.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26In a big house, we can charge people admission.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29And we can use that money to do the roof.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32We can use that money to paint a wall.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35In the countryside, there's no revenue stream.
0:19:35 > 0:19:37Maybe a bit of parking.
0:19:37 > 0:19:39Maybe we can sell a hot dog or two,
0:19:39 > 0:19:42but if it's going to cost £500,000 to maintain footpaths,
0:19:42 > 0:19:44how do we finance it?
0:19:44 > 0:19:46We don't get money from the government.
0:19:46 > 0:19:50The only revenue source we really have is through membership,
0:19:50 > 0:19:54visitors and people leaving us money when they pass away.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59'Over recent years, there's been
0:19:59 > 0:20:02'a new and developing menace for the Trust.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07'A recent report predicted that 167km
0:20:07 > 0:20:11'of Trust-owned coastline in Wales will be affected by erosion
0:20:11 > 0:20:14'and raised sea levels over the next century.'
0:20:19 > 0:20:24Only a short while ago, the path used to be here.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26That's gone.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30They've moved the path in a few yards.
0:20:30 > 0:20:34But what if it's not just paths that are threatened,
0:20:34 > 0:20:38but houses or archaeological sites?
0:20:38 > 0:20:41'This is an urgent problem.
0:20:41 > 0:20:42'It needs confronting.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46'But the proposed solution is controversial.'
0:20:46 > 0:20:48If you think of this one factor,
0:20:48 > 0:20:52you cannot build a sea wall around the coast of Wales, OK?
0:20:52 > 0:20:56So you've got to take a bit of a judgment, haven't you?
0:20:56 > 0:20:58Where does the sea wall stop?
0:20:58 > 0:21:01And there's a lot factors that come into that.
0:21:01 > 0:21:05Mainly, it will be, you know, how many people are living in that area?
0:21:05 > 0:21:10If there was houses all along the top, it might be more of an issue.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13Which bits do we protect at all costs?
0:21:13 > 0:21:16Because they're just so important for the economy of the nation.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20But which bits do we then work with nature
0:21:20 > 0:21:24and have a more natural, a more beautiful
0:21:24 > 0:21:28and a more wildlife-friendly coast as a result?
0:21:31 > 0:21:33'The National Trust has two options.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36'To hold the line, or adapt to change.'
0:21:37 > 0:21:40Unless you build a concrete wall around the entire Welsh coast,
0:21:40 > 0:21:42and English and Scottish coast,
0:21:42 > 0:21:45you'll never stop the rise of the tides.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48The only way you can succeed is by taking those barriers down,
0:21:48 > 0:21:51letting the sea over the land and letting it retreat.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54And when you have high tides, as you do once or twice a year,
0:21:54 > 0:21:56and once a decade, you have a very, very high tide
0:21:56 > 0:21:58and they're going to get higher and higher,
0:21:58 > 0:22:01it allows the water to escape and come back.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05It's healthier for the environment, healthier for the farm.
0:22:05 > 0:22:09'So the preference, then, is to adapt. To embrace change.
0:22:09 > 0:22:14'In other words, to plan tomorrow's coastline today.'
0:22:14 > 0:22:17'They call this managed realignment.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20'We went with Justin to see how they propose to do this
0:22:20 > 0:22:25'at one of their sites at Llanmadoc on Gower, in west Wales.'
0:22:25 > 0:22:27'The radical solution here involves
0:22:27 > 0:22:30'knocking down an historical feature.'
0:22:30 > 0:22:34If you told somebody, "We're taking down a medieval wall
0:22:34 > 0:22:37"and we're flooding with salt water that beautiful environment over there
0:22:37 > 0:22:40"and turning it into that," people could take the wrong end of the stick.
0:22:40 > 0:22:42That's an artificial habitat, anyway.
0:22:42 > 0:22:45This wall has created that habitat.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47It would have once been salt marsh, anyway.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50And also, the sea has started to take this wall apart on its own
0:22:50 > 0:22:54without our help whatsoever. This has already started to fall apart.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58So rather than try and fight nature, we just thought we'll go with it.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01Essentially, bright green is a bad colour for conservation.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04That just means we've got really rich grasses
0:23:04 > 0:23:07that are good for farm animals, but really bad for wildlife.
0:23:07 > 0:23:09So although it looks beautiful,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11it's actually not amazing for wildlife at the moment.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17'Bright green is the wrong colour
0:23:17 > 0:23:20'because it's the result of years of artificial fertiliser,
0:23:20 > 0:23:25'as opposed to the natural type deposited by the animals themselves.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28'And it's led to one dominant grass.
0:23:28 > 0:23:31'The range of habitats that would sustain insects
0:23:31 > 0:23:34'and birdlife has gone.
0:23:34 > 0:23:37'Not only that, the Trust believes that flooding this land
0:23:37 > 0:23:42'will counterbalance sea defences some way off along the coast.'
0:23:42 > 0:23:45It actually helps land further down there that's actually
0:23:45 > 0:23:48become part of a coastal sort of squeeze,
0:23:48 > 0:23:50where we've got concrete walls.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53And so this actually offsets some of the damage that's been done
0:23:53 > 0:23:55in towns and villages down there.
0:23:55 > 0:23:59'Does the Trust's archaeology consultant Claudine Gerrard
0:23:59 > 0:24:01'think this is a good idea?'
0:24:01 > 0:24:05I was quite shocked. I thought, "Are we really going to do this?"
0:24:05 > 0:24:09I was very concerned. But that's the thing that we have to do
0:24:09 > 0:24:11really, here, working for the National Trust,
0:24:11 > 0:24:15is balance nature and the historic environment.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20'Here, unlike in Mwnt,
0:24:20 > 0:24:25'the Trust are working with nature, rather than with history.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28'Far from being coy about flooding a medieval landmark,
0:24:28 > 0:24:32'they are heralding it as an example of good practice.'
0:24:33 > 0:24:37We're showing the Welsh Government and others, we're doing this in England,
0:24:37 > 0:24:40what you should be doing to protect farmland.
0:24:40 > 0:24:44To stop massive floods that you've had, you know, in 2014,
0:24:44 > 0:24:47big floods in the Somerset Levels.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51That's caused by forcing... Being King Canute-like
0:24:51 > 0:24:53with your thinking about the sea, the ocean.
0:24:55 > 0:25:00'Over the centuries, this coast has continually transformed itself
0:25:00 > 0:25:04'as a result of both nature and man.'
0:25:04 > 0:25:07And the question comes along, we've been here for 8,000 years
0:25:07 > 0:25:11so, which bits do you represent?
0:25:11 > 0:25:14What do you keep? How do you decide?
0:25:17 > 0:25:21'Sometimes, the decision is taken out of our hands.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23'In Rhossili Bay on Gower,
0:25:23 > 0:25:25'a medieval village is falling into the sea.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31'Recent severe winter weather is hastening that process.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33'Although not visible to the untrained eye,
0:25:33 > 0:25:38'Claudine feels they must record the remains before it's too late.'
0:25:39 > 0:25:43What we would like to do is establish the extent of that village
0:25:43 > 0:25:46so we can actually get to grips with what we are looking after.
0:25:46 > 0:25:47Because we thought we knew,
0:25:47 > 0:25:49but actually, looking back at some records,
0:25:49 > 0:25:53it's quite apparent we don't really know what is there.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55There's been no investigation, we've just gone,
0:25:55 > 0:25:57"Oh, that's a medieval village, leave it alone."
0:25:57 > 0:26:01But we can't do that any more because actually, it is eroding.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04So, what do you need from me, from the National Trust
0:26:04 > 0:26:06to enable that to happen?
0:26:06 > 0:26:09I need your buy-in, actually, into the idea
0:26:09 > 0:26:13and I need you to make sure that funds
0:26:13 > 0:26:16from various pots of money that we do have
0:26:16 > 0:26:19that are targeted at these kinds of things, coastal erosion money,
0:26:19 > 0:26:23comes to us in Wales here at Rhossili, rather than anywhere else.
0:26:23 > 0:26:24Money, I'll try and find.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27But seriously, why wouldn't we want to do that?
0:26:29 > 0:26:32'But without the revenue generated
0:26:32 > 0:26:35'by the teas and wees at the country houses,
0:26:35 > 0:26:38'how on earth can they pay for all they need to do?'
0:26:39 > 0:26:42If you have membership and say,
0:26:42 > 0:26:44- "Well, let's restrict it to members?"- Never.
0:26:44 > 0:26:48If you have a turnstile, let's make people pay?
0:26:48 > 0:26:50Never.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53Never. We.. It is... You can't do that.
0:26:53 > 0:26:57I mean, it is that sort of, it is this conundrum, you know,
0:26:57 > 0:27:01a benign sort of Christian Socialist upbringing of the National Trust,
0:27:01 > 0:27:05which is everybody open access, then you have to pay for it.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09- OK.- And it is a dichotomy. There's a real problem there.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13'Was he tempted, then, by the turnstiles?
0:27:14 > 0:27:18'Is the Trust too constrained by its guiding principles,
0:27:18 > 0:27:21'forever, for everyone?
0:27:21 > 0:27:26'Let's face it, managing the countryside costs money.
0:27:26 > 0:27:29'Whatever you may think about the Trust's decisions,
0:27:29 > 0:27:33'whether they prioritise conservation over human concerns,
0:27:33 > 0:27:36'choose preserving history over access for all,
0:27:36 > 0:27:40'given that their responsibilities will last forever,
0:27:40 > 0:27:45'you can cannot but marvel at the scale of the undertaking.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48'And ponder a little bit.'
0:27:48 > 0:27:51I wonder if Fanny Talbot, when she gave
0:27:51 > 0:27:53this few hundred yards of coast here,
0:27:53 > 0:27:57ever imagined it would turn into 157 miles?
0:27:59 > 0:28:01And I wonder if she ever imagined
0:28:01 > 0:28:03there would be so much work involved
0:28:03 > 0:28:06in the archaeology and ecology and just economy
0:28:06 > 0:28:09of running such a place?
0:28:11 > 0:28:15'But the battle is surely worth the fight.'
0:28:17 > 0:28:19Despite the complexities and the problems,
0:28:19 > 0:28:22if you seek a monument
0:28:22 > 0:28:27to the ideals of National Trust Wales, look around you.