Tredegar House

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0:00:02 > 0:00:05The National Trust is Britain's largest landowner.

0:00:05 > 0:00:08It has more than four million members

0:00:08 > 0:00:10and it's as English as cream teas.

0:00:10 > 0:00:12Or is it?

0:00:12 > 0:00:16In fact it all began 100 years ago here in Wales

0:00:16 > 0:00:19where it now cares for some of the greatest coastline,

0:00:19 > 0:00:21mansions and countryside in the world.

0:00:23 > 0:00:25This is a huge undertaking

0:00:25 > 0:00:29but how are they coping in the 21st century?

0:00:40 > 0:00:44I'm on a housing estate in Newport

0:00:44 > 0:00:47but I'm looking for a rather different kind of estate.

0:00:49 > 0:00:51It's well-known to the locals,

0:00:51 > 0:00:54but still a bit of a secret to the rest of us.

0:00:54 > 0:00:57This is the only National Trust house

0:00:57 > 0:01:00where the neighbours have their own entrance.

0:01:01 > 0:01:04A little local knowledge always helps, doesn't it?

0:01:09 > 0:01:12It's known as the jewel in the crown of Newport -

0:01:14 > 0:01:15Tredegar House.

0:01:18 > 0:01:20Nestling in the heart of urban Newport,

0:01:20 > 0:01:24perched on the shoulder of the Duffryn housing estate

0:01:24 > 0:01:27and across the road from the M4 motorway.

0:01:28 > 0:01:32We are right in the middle of urban South Wales.

0:01:36 > 0:01:39This was the seat of the famous Morgan dynasty

0:01:39 > 0:01:42before it was purchased by Newport Council

0:01:42 > 0:01:45thereby earning its infamous nickname.

0:01:47 > 0:01:49Welcome to what was once known

0:01:49 > 0:01:53as the most expensive council house in Britain.

0:02:03 > 0:02:05It has lived several lives.

0:02:05 > 0:02:08Country palace to the aristocratic Morgans,

0:02:08 > 0:02:10post-war girl's school,

0:02:10 > 0:02:15and latterly, a museum run by the Friends of Tredegar House.

0:02:15 > 0:02:17But now, National Trust Wales has borrowed it

0:02:17 > 0:02:20on a 50 year lease from Newport Council.

0:02:23 > 0:02:28The National Trust, surprisingly, only came here in March 2012.

0:02:28 > 0:02:31It's definitely part of a strategy

0:02:31 > 0:02:34because they're underrepresented in South Wales,

0:02:34 > 0:02:37they don't have a lot of property and land around here.

0:02:37 > 0:02:42They wanted to bring their expertise to this house.

0:02:43 > 0:02:46This is not your standard National Trust property

0:02:46 > 0:02:47so what are they doing here?

0:02:47 > 0:02:51And why are they taking on yet another huge place?

0:02:51 > 0:02:54National Trust Wales director Justin Albert explains.

0:02:56 > 0:02:58We're very relevant to the north.

0:02:58 > 0:03:02In the north of our country we have lots of fine, big properties.

0:03:02 > 0:03:04Lots of land, lots of Snowdon we look after.

0:03:04 > 0:03:07And actually, the proportion of people who are members

0:03:07 > 0:03:10is very high, it's higher than many parts of England.

0:03:10 > 0:03:12But most people in Wales don't live up the north,

0:03:12 > 0:03:14they live down south, they live in Newport,

0:03:14 > 0:03:17they live in Port Talbot, they live in Swansea, they live in Cardiff.

0:03:17 > 0:03:21That's when I realised we didn't have much of a presence.

0:03:21 > 0:03:24We weren't relevant, not because we didn't have anything to offer,

0:03:24 > 0:03:26we had no properties there.

0:03:30 > 0:03:32Tredegar House is a gem.

0:03:32 > 0:03:37It's late 17th century, about 1670, a masterpiece in brick,

0:03:37 > 0:03:42designed by that always reliable architect - Anon.

0:03:42 > 0:03:45Nobody knows quite who the architect was.

0:03:49 > 0:03:52But what is this magnificent palace doing in the

0:03:52 > 0:03:55middle of the urban sprawl of industrial South Wales?

0:03:55 > 0:04:00Well, in 1403 the Morgans built the original stone brick residence here.

0:04:01 > 0:04:04Over the centuries they grew in wealth

0:04:04 > 0:04:07and by the 1670s, William Morgan built the first ever

0:04:07 > 0:04:10red brick mansion in South Wales.

0:04:10 > 0:04:13The Morgan dynasty were the Kennedys of Wales,

0:04:13 > 0:04:16they married into land and money.

0:04:16 > 0:04:18They were in the right place at the right time to

0:04:18 > 0:04:21capitalise on the Industrial Revolution.

0:04:21 > 0:04:26And then in 1951, they ran out of heirs and sold up.

0:04:27 > 0:04:30Curator Emily Price fills me in.

0:04:32 > 0:04:34Do you have any connections with any of the Morgan Family?

0:04:34 > 0:04:37Tredegar House and the Morgans are very unusual.

0:04:37 > 0:04:41The last Lord Tredegar died childless.

0:04:41 > 0:04:43There were connections with his widow for a time

0:04:43 > 0:04:46and there are still branches of the family.

0:04:46 > 0:04:50But essentially, there is no Lord Tredegar anymore.

0:04:50 > 0:04:54You've had people come and claim things about this house?

0:04:54 > 0:04:58We have had people in the past come and say, we own this house.

0:04:58 > 0:05:01You mean they arrived... Did they have any evidence?

0:05:01 > 0:05:05They claimed they did which is why we sent them to the legal department.

0:05:05 > 0:05:08Did they actually, literally, knock on the door and say,

0:05:08 > 0:05:11- we own this house, get out. - Yes. Pretty much, yes.

0:05:11 > 0:05:14The council managed to ward off fake Morgan descendants

0:05:14 > 0:05:18for nearly 30 years, but the financial burden

0:05:18 > 0:05:21of running such a large building became too much.

0:05:21 > 0:05:24It's a huge conservation debt of several million pounds

0:05:24 > 0:05:27and that liability was too much for the council to deal with.

0:05:27 > 0:05:29And also they lost money every year.

0:05:29 > 0:05:33What we can do in the Trust is inspire more people to visit,

0:05:33 > 0:05:36more members to come here, and more visitors to see them,

0:05:36 > 0:05:38therefore we can make enough money.

0:05:38 > 0:05:41It's my gamble, our Trust's gamble, that we can make enough money

0:05:41 > 0:05:45from our visitors and members to match how much it costs

0:05:45 > 0:05:50to run the place - staff, volunteers, food, electricity, lights,

0:05:50 > 0:05:53and secondly, maintain what we've fixed here.

0:05:53 > 0:05:56Once you build a house it starts collapsing.

0:05:56 > 0:05:59This has been collapsing for 400 years.

0:05:59 > 0:06:01And the man charged with this mammoth task is

0:06:01 > 0:06:05National Trust Wales' building consultant, Nathan Goss.

0:06:05 > 0:06:08When I look at Tredegar House I look straight at the roof

0:06:08 > 0:06:11and put my head in my hands thinking, how are we ever

0:06:11 > 0:06:13going to be able to afford to do that?

0:06:13 > 0:06:15The whole roof is on its last legs.

0:06:15 > 0:06:17Even the chimneys are on their last legs.

0:06:17 > 0:06:21Falling bricks, slates slipping off, lead work ripping, tearing,

0:06:21 > 0:06:24there's just mass decay in the roof section, really.

0:06:24 > 0:06:27And it's not just the big house.

0:06:27 > 0:06:30There are restoration challenges throughout the estate.

0:06:30 > 0:06:32These small, wonderful buildings behind me

0:06:32 > 0:06:34they're on, what's called, buildings at risk.

0:06:34 > 0:06:38Even though from the outside looking in they look fantastic,

0:06:38 > 0:06:42you can't see any slipped slates, you can't see anything wrong with it at all.

0:06:42 > 0:06:44So when you actually get inside those buildings

0:06:44 > 0:06:47and get up into the actual roof space

0:06:47 > 0:06:50the timbers are like Weetabix, they just fall to bits in your hands.

0:06:50 > 0:06:54There's the most wonderful mushrooms and fungus growing in there.

0:06:54 > 0:06:58So these buildings are really high priority for us as the National Trust

0:06:58 > 0:07:04because we can't be seen as a leading organisation in Europe

0:07:04 > 0:07:09or even in the world, and have buildings which are on the risk register.

0:07:09 > 0:07:12It just isn't something we can do.

0:07:15 > 0:07:19So what can the Trust bring to the table that the council couldn't?

0:07:22 > 0:07:25We're saying with the ability of the National Trust,

0:07:25 > 0:07:29we know how to run a conservation business so we're not...

0:07:29 > 0:07:32We're going to use all our techniques and our staff

0:07:32 > 0:07:35to make this a viable business.

0:07:39 > 0:07:44The first step is to commission a two year investigation into the place.

0:07:44 > 0:07:48This in-depth research will provide the blue print for what happens here

0:07:48 > 0:07:50over the next 48 years.

0:07:50 > 0:07:54Emily used to work at Tredegar House when Newport Council were in charge

0:07:54 > 0:07:57and stayed on when the Trust took over.

0:07:59 > 0:08:01The National Trust is a massive institution,

0:08:01 > 0:08:04so did they all arrive at once in one huge bus or did they come bit by bit?

0:08:04 > 0:08:07It's been gradual and it's continuing.

0:08:07 > 0:08:11That's a pity. I rather like the idea of the Ealing Film

0:08:11 > 0:08:14that there's a "beep, beep" and a coach turns up

0:08:14 > 0:08:19and hundreds of people from the National Trust start running out going, oh!

0:08:19 > 0:08:21But what have they looked at?

0:08:21 > 0:08:25The ceilings, the furniture, the ceramics...

0:08:25 > 0:08:27And that was all right was it?

0:08:27 > 0:08:31I would worry about letting them in because they might come in and say

0:08:31 > 0:08:34you've got death watch beetle here, my dear, we've got to redo the whole place.

0:08:34 > 0:08:37A building like this is always going to have a bit of death watch beetle,

0:08:37 > 0:08:40a bit of wood worm. My personal fear was they might turn around and say,

0:08:40 > 0:08:44sorry, the house was only built in the 1970s!

0:08:44 > 0:08:46- Luckily that didn't happen. - We're going!

0:08:46 > 0:08:49We don't want anything to do with this house. It's a fake.

0:08:49 > 0:08:51- But they didn't say that? - No, no.

0:08:53 > 0:08:55'So it's not a fake but it is complicated.'

0:08:57 > 0:09:00Now, this is very glamorous, isn't it?

0:09:00 > 0:09:03'Downstairs they've inherited the oak panelled,

0:09:03 > 0:09:08'late 17th century Morgan era with Victorian flourishes.

0:09:08 > 0:09:11'Upstairs, it's a museum to the last family.

0:09:11 > 0:09:15'While further down the corridor is a remnant of the time

0:09:15 > 0:09:17'when Tredegar House was a school.'

0:09:19 > 0:09:21BELL TOLLS

0:09:21 > 0:09:24St Joseph's Convent took it over in 1951

0:09:24 > 0:09:28and ran it as a school for 23 years.

0:09:28 > 0:09:30Stephanie Evans is the conservation manager here.

0:09:32 > 0:09:36This is a really interesting room from the National Trust perspective

0:09:36 > 0:09:39because if you look around you can see so many different layers.

0:09:39 > 0:09:42We've got this brown vinyl wallpaper

0:09:42 > 0:09:44which we think was put in by the school.

0:09:44 > 0:09:48We've got a concrete floor because the old floor fell down.

0:09:48 > 0:09:53And then right in this very corner when some furniture was moved out

0:09:53 > 0:09:57we found this fantastic wallpaper. We think it's dated to around 1750.

0:09:59 > 0:10:01Apart from all these changes over the years,

0:10:01 > 0:10:05there's another reason why this house is a difficult one to look after.

0:10:07 > 0:10:10Here's Lady Katherine up here on the wall

0:10:10 > 0:10:13painted by Augustus John, the famous Welsh painter.

0:10:13 > 0:10:15He was a bit of a goat by all accounts.

0:10:15 > 0:10:18It's rumoured the two of them had an affair.

0:10:18 > 0:10:22He said, HE said, he found his subject

0:10:22 > 0:10:25"a bit trying but it paid",

0:10:25 > 0:10:30meaning that he made a bit of dosh by doing these society portraits.

0:10:30 > 0:10:33This picture is here now because the widow

0:10:33 > 0:10:36of the last Lord Tredegar decided that she would sell

0:10:36 > 0:10:40a few of the pictures to Newport City Council to adorn the house.

0:10:40 > 0:10:42It had become a school.

0:10:42 > 0:10:48All the artefacts relating to the story of the Morgans had disappeared.

0:10:50 > 0:10:53And so the Trust, and the council before them,

0:10:53 > 0:10:55have had to reconstruct the rooms, imagining how

0:10:55 > 0:11:00they might have been at any given time in 500 years of the Morgans.

0:11:00 > 0:11:03Bryher Mason, conservation plan consultant.

0:11:03 > 0:11:07It has been said it's a little bit like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle

0:11:07 > 0:11:10when you've only got about 60% of the pieces

0:11:10 > 0:11:14and you don't have a picture on the box. So it is quite a challenge.

0:11:14 > 0:11:18The reason why it's hard to say exactly what went on in the house

0:11:18 > 0:11:20is that records are incomplete.

0:11:22 > 0:11:25So we might know an awful lot about what happened in 1788

0:11:25 > 0:11:29and then there's huge periods of time where we don't know the answer.

0:11:29 > 0:11:33So, for example, in the fabric of the building we can see

0:11:33 > 0:11:36that there are changes that we don't necessarily at the moment understand.

0:11:38 > 0:11:42So a good example is the way the staircase comes down

0:11:42 > 0:11:45and enters the new hall here.

0:11:45 > 0:11:50So you have a door case but it's not symmetrical.

0:11:50 > 0:11:55The other thing that happens is this pillar at the end of the stairs

0:11:55 > 0:11:57is in a rather strange place.

0:11:57 > 0:12:01Normally you'd expect it either to end a bit further in

0:12:01 > 0:12:04or a bit further out.

0:12:04 > 0:12:05It's all a bit uncomfortable.

0:12:05 > 0:12:08Another clue is in the plinth.

0:12:09 > 0:12:13These dents in the stonework must have been caused by quite

0:12:13 > 0:12:16a heavy object hitting against the stone.

0:12:16 > 0:12:19That's not the kind of damage that really could occur

0:12:19 > 0:12:22in this sheltered internal environment.

0:12:22 > 0:12:27So what that tells is that this wall was once external

0:12:27 > 0:12:30and the staircase is an addition to the building.

0:12:32 > 0:12:35They may never know the exact reason for the change

0:12:35 > 0:12:39but they'll record it and add it to the information they know

0:12:39 > 0:12:40about this crumbling house.

0:12:43 > 0:12:44I like this,

0:12:44 > 0:12:50the battered window even though the draft excluder's left in.

0:12:50 > 0:12:55You look through and you can see the entire restored courtyard out there

0:12:55 > 0:12:58like something from the Loire Valley.

0:12:58 > 0:13:00Beyond that is an avenue of trees.

0:13:00 > 0:13:03Then you see the M4

0:13:04 > 0:13:08and you get some sense of the way this house sits

0:13:08 > 0:13:11in the middle of the history of South Wales.

0:13:11 > 0:13:14And this is where the Trust can help.

0:13:15 > 0:13:19It has a network of contacts who can, in some cases,

0:13:19 > 0:13:21fill in the missing history.

0:13:21 > 0:13:24We were very lucky. I think one of our supporters from the art world

0:13:24 > 0:13:26who owned this portrait up in Edinburgh,

0:13:26 > 0:13:30heard that the National Trust was taking on Tredegar House

0:13:30 > 0:13:33and contacted us, and said he had bought this painting in a sale

0:13:33 > 0:13:36and would we like it, which was fantastic.

0:13:37 > 0:13:41It's a portrait of William Morgan who built the red brick house

0:13:41 > 0:13:43here in the 1670s.

0:13:43 > 0:13:46Something to note about William is he's dressed semi-like

0:13:46 > 0:13:51a Roman emperor and there's a theme of the Roman Empire

0:13:51 > 0:13:53going on in Tredegar House.

0:13:53 > 0:13:56We've got carved busts of all the Caesars.

0:13:56 > 0:13:59We also know from inventories there was a whole series

0:13:59 > 0:14:02of paintings of Roman emperors in the new hall.

0:14:05 > 0:14:07Everywhere you look,

0:14:07 > 0:14:10there are rich, flamboyant decorations which demonstrate

0:14:10 > 0:14:15the sheer wealth and power of the Welsh family that built this house.

0:14:18 > 0:14:19Gorgeous.

0:14:19 > 0:14:24These splendid putty lions fighting it out

0:14:24 > 0:14:29to proclaim the majesty of the Morgans.

0:14:29 > 0:14:35And in 1671, while a distant relative, the pirate Captain Morgan,

0:14:35 > 0:14:39was laying waste to Spanish galleons on the Spanish Main,

0:14:39 > 0:14:43they were acquiring more land here in Newport.

0:14:43 > 0:14:47Land that stretched right the way down to the water and was

0:14:47 > 0:14:53to later become extremely valuable as the shipping dock of Newport.

0:14:58 > 0:15:02The Morgans made another fortune in the Industrial Revolution

0:15:02 > 0:15:05and that is represented upstairs

0:15:05 > 0:15:09where there's a new way of drawing attention to that story.

0:15:09 > 0:15:11Welcome to the Red Room.

0:15:11 > 0:15:16This room is representative of the bedroom of Princess Olga Dolgorouky.

0:15:17 > 0:15:20She was Evan Morgan's second wife.

0:15:21 > 0:15:24Absolutely beautiful woman and I've no doubt today

0:15:24 > 0:15:27she would have been blessing the society pages.

0:15:27 > 0:15:32We know this room is fairly accurate based on drawings and letters

0:15:32 > 0:15:35that she supplied to various researchers,

0:15:35 > 0:15:39even to the extent of where the furniture is in the room as we speak.

0:15:39 > 0:15:42I understand though, as the marriage deteriorated

0:15:42 > 0:15:46she finally ended up in the far left hand corner of the house

0:15:46 > 0:15:49across that way, probably as far away from Evan as she could possibly get.

0:15:49 > 0:15:53Oh, I see, right. Oh, dear.

0:15:54 > 0:15:57The National Trust are telling the story of the house

0:15:57 > 0:15:58in a different way here.

0:16:00 > 0:16:04So, Mark, I mean, you tell people this as they walk through,

0:16:04 > 0:16:05as a guide to give them advice.

0:16:05 > 0:16:08We don't have audio guides here, it's down to you?

0:16:08 > 0:16:12What we try and create in this house

0:16:12 > 0:16:15is an atmosphere where people feel that they're part of the house.

0:16:15 > 0:16:19The last thing we want to do is create an atmosphere where you feel

0:16:19 > 0:16:21that you're guided through the house,

0:16:21 > 0:16:23that you're not allowed in certain parts of the house

0:16:23 > 0:16:26because of ropes and restrictions. It's your visit. It's your house.

0:16:26 > 0:16:30You enjoy it, and we try to be there to give you what information we can.

0:16:32 > 0:16:36Even more than hands-on, this place is bottoms-on.

0:16:38 > 0:16:40Ah, excellent.

0:16:41 > 0:16:43I can lie here in some comfort

0:16:43 > 0:16:51and look up at a copy of a picture in the Palazzo Barberini in Rome...

0:16:51 > 0:16:56and it's an extraordinary idea that I can do this.

0:16:56 > 0:16:57And it's sort of...

0:16:57 > 0:16:59This is not just touchy-feely National Trust,

0:16:59 > 0:17:02this is feather bedding National Trust.

0:17:03 > 0:17:05In some rooms, you can dress up

0:17:05 > 0:17:07as different generations of the Morgans.

0:17:11 > 0:17:15In others, there are board games or role play.

0:17:15 > 0:17:17What do you say to people who say,

0:17:17 > 0:17:22"Well, isn't this a little bit, sort of, touchy-feely fun,

0:17:22 > 0:17:25"but not dignified enough for this house?"

0:17:25 > 0:17:28I think it's still perfectly dignified.

0:17:28 > 0:17:31It's people experiencing and finding out about the house

0:17:31 > 0:17:32in different ways.

0:17:32 > 0:17:34So, they are getting a different experience here

0:17:34 > 0:17:36than they might get at another house.

0:17:37 > 0:17:41Each property we have is intrinsically different

0:17:41 > 0:17:43and each has a different role.

0:17:43 > 0:17:46Powys Castle is a treasure museum.

0:17:48 > 0:17:50Tredegar house in Newport is very different.

0:17:50 > 0:17:52That's a community asset in many ways.

0:17:52 > 0:17:53It's a fun place to run around and play,

0:17:53 > 0:17:56and experience something you can't experience anywhere else.

0:17:57 > 0:17:59Where we've got the opportunity here,

0:17:59 > 0:18:02where we don't have hugely valuable pieces of furniture

0:18:02 > 0:18:05that we need to protect, then we can allow the public

0:18:05 > 0:18:08to engage with the room with a little bit more hands on.

0:18:10 > 0:18:13There's no ropes, there's no boundaries. You can sit at the table,

0:18:13 > 0:18:15and kids can have a fake dinner party,

0:18:15 > 0:18:17and you can trust people with that.

0:18:17 > 0:18:21We've lost nothing. Nothing's been nicked, nothing's gone.

0:18:21 > 0:18:23Not everyone gets this.

0:18:23 > 0:18:27It can be confusing for those more used to a traditional style

0:18:27 > 0:18:30of touring a house.

0:18:30 > 0:18:35When I sat down on this chair, just now,

0:18:35 > 0:18:36a gentleman came up to me and said,

0:18:36 > 0:18:38"I don't think you're supposed to sit down on the chairs -

0:18:38 > 0:18:40"they might collapse."

0:18:40 > 0:18:42But, in fact, I'm supposed to sit down on the chairs.

0:18:42 > 0:18:44I think the rest of the people walking through

0:18:44 > 0:18:46are a little bit too cautious to do that,

0:18:46 > 0:18:49but the idea here is that I should join in the wedding feast

0:18:49 > 0:18:54of William Morgan and Elizabeth Dayrell, over there,

0:18:54 > 0:19:01and enjoy the plastic ham and cheese and the rubber quail.

0:19:02 > 0:19:06But the point is that this is all intended by the National Trust

0:19:06 > 0:19:09to bring in more visitors.

0:19:09 > 0:19:12They have undertaken to increase the numbers

0:19:12 > 0:19:15from 25,000 to 100,000 a year

0:19:15 > 0:19:19and to boost the local economy by £1.5 million.

0:19:22 > 0:19:24Some have suggested that they may be going too far.

0:19:26 > 0:19:30Critics have accused the National Trust of "Disneyfication",

0:19:30 > 0:19:35of using crude tactics to bring these places to life.

0:19:35 > 0:19:39Are they dumbing down history in order to get more people in?

0:19:39 > 0:19:42A question I put to Justin.

0:19:42 > 0:19:44You don't see a point at which you say,

0:19:44 > 0:19:47"Well, in order to square this circle,"

0:19:47 > 0:19:50which is to get more people in,

0:19:50 > 0:19:53"we have to make ourselves more attractive to,

0:19:53 > 0:19:55"if you like, the lowest common denominator"?

0:19:55 > 0:19:57Does that worry you at all?

0:19:57 > 0:20:00Never use the term "lowest common denominator". I would use the...

0:20:00 > 0:20:03We need to make ourselves attractive

0:20:03 > 0:20:06to as many people as possible, to give those who wouldn't normally

0:20:06 > 0:20:08want to come to what they perceive as a National Trust house

0:20:08 > 0:20:12and be given a scone and a lukewarm cup of tea

0:20:12 > 0:20:15and told, you know, by a volunteer they can't touch a bed.

0:20:15 > 0:20:18That we don't want to have anything to do with.

0:20:19 > 0:20:21It will piss some people off.

0:20:21 > 0:20:22Some people are not going to like

0:20:22 > 0:20:24that we're not the great conservative.

0:20:24 > 0:20:26We're not going to have these ropes

0:20:26 > 0:20:28and you talk in hushed tones in rooms.

0:20:28 > 0:20:31They're not going to like it, but it's absolutely the way it should be.

0:20:31 > 0:20:34There are boundaries in some areas.

0:20:34 > 0:20:36Downstairs, we're got very much a hands-on feel.

0:20:36 > 0:20:40We want people to engage with what's going on in the spaces

0:20:40 > 0:20:43but, here, we hope that people can readily understand

0:20:43 > 0:20:46that this is a piece of historic wallpaper

0:20:46 > 0:20:49and we do have some explanation here and we do have some ropes.

0:20:49 > 0:20:51Now, that is kind of contrary

0:20:51 > 0:20:54to how we want to people to enjoy the rest of the house

0:20:54 > 0:20:57but, in this case, that wallpaper is really significant

0:20:57 > 0:20:59and every time we touch something like that,

0:20:59 > 0:21:02it leads to speeding up deterioration.

0:21:02 > 0:21:05And this is the crux for the National Trust.

0:21:05 > 0:21:08They have said they have a kind of onion of a house.

0:21:08 > 0:21:11Some ancient original artefacts,

0:21:11 > 0:21:15some reconstruction and some relatively new stuff.

0:21:15 > 0:21:19But what we try to remember is that all the layers are important.

0:21:19 > 0:21:22So, you have to imagine yourself 100 years from now.

0:21:22 > 0:21:25The school era, in the '60s and '70s,

0:21:25 > 0:21:28would be probably almost as interesting

0:21:28 > 0:21:30as perhaps the 17th century era.

0:21:30 > 0:21:32So, we don't want to lose any of those layers.

0:21:32 > 0:21:35Keeping the layers is, really, very important.

0:21:38 > 0:21:41Things aren't that traditional in the garden either.

0:21:43 > 0:21:49Tredegar House is part stately home and part municipal park.

0:21:52 > 0:21:55There are 90 acres of parkland here,

0:21:55 > 0:21:59most of which are open to the public all year round.

0:21:59 > 0:22:03The Trust looks after it, along with the grounds of the house,

0:22:03 > 0:22:07an 18th century formal garden, which is part of the paid visit.

0:22:08 > 0:22:11It has been described to me, by locals in the past,

0:22:11 > 0:22:13as an oasis in an urban jungle.

0:22:13 > 0:22:16Steve Morgan, unfortunately no relation to the Morgan family,

0:22:16 > 0:22:19grew up playing in this park.

0:22:19 > 0:22:22Now, he's head gardener here for National Trust Wales.

0:22:23 > 0:22:26There was a dig back in the late '80s,

0:22:26 > 0:22:28when the council owned Tredegar House,

0:22:28 > 0:22:34and they found evidence of this type of garden,

0:22:34 > 0:22:35and what they decided to do was

0:22:35 > 0:22:38recreate their own interpretation of it.

0:22:38 > 0:22:40So this hasn't all come from the National Trust?

0:22:40 > 0:22:43No, I mean, the council did do an awful lot

0:22:43 > 0:22:47when they first took on the property in 1974.

0:22:47 > 0:22:50They were heavily involved in the restoration of the buildings

0:22:50 > 0:22:52and then that moved on to the gardens.

0:22:52 > 0:22:53And it's quite unique.

0:22:53 > 0:22:56I'm pretty certain this is the only one of its kind in Wales.

0:22:56 > 0:22:58There is a strong relationship

0:22:58 > 0:23:00between this house and the local people,

0:23:00 > 0:23:04and it goes back to the Morgan family. It's tradition here.

0:23:04 > 0:23:07The family were great philanthropists.

0:23:07 > 0:23:08We know that a Labour leader,

0:23:08 > 0:23:11speaking at the docks in the 19th century

0:23:11 > 0:23:13said something along the lines of,

0:23:13 > 0:23:16"Socialism will not flourish in Newport

0:23:16 > 0:23:18"so long as Lord Tredegar is alive."

0:23:18 > 0:23:23So, he was implying that Lord Tredegar was so generous

0:23:23 > 0:23:25to the people of the area

0:23:25 > 0:23:30that socialism had difficulty making headway.

0:23:30 > 0:23:34Absolutely, and he was generous in that he gave land for parks,

0:23:34 > 0:23:37for a technical institute.

0:23:37 > 0:23:39We even have stories of him...

0:23:39 > 0:23:41A young lady was widowed on the land

0:23:41 > 0:23:45and he let her stay rent free for the rest of her life.

0:23:45 > 0:23:50Is it possible for the Trust to step into Lord Tredegar's shoes here?

0:23:50 > 0:23:52They've set up a number of initiatives to help

0:23:52 > 0:23:54and involve local people.

0:23:55 > 0:23:58We look after the social, the economic,

0:23:58 > 0:24:00and the conservation benefit are what we look at,

0:24:00 > 0:24:02and the social benefit is really key.

0:24:02 > 0:24:05Other organisations aren't big enough to do that.

0:24:05 > 0:24:08We can make decisions that don't necessarily make financial sense

0:24:08 > 0:24:11but actually have great social, beneficial social impact.

0:24:12 > 0:24:15One place they are trying to put this into action

0:24:15 > 0:24:17is with an allotment scheme.

0:24:17 > 0:24:18Can you manage?

0:24:20 > 0:24:22The Trust have given over a plot of land to locals

0:24:22 > 0:24:26from the neighbouring Duffryn estate to grow vegetables.

0:24:27 > 0:24:31Is this philanthropy in the style of Lord Tredegar?

0:24:31 > 0:24:34Or is it part of a sound business plan?

0:24:34 > 0:24:37There are 3,000 potential visitors on this estate,

0:24:37 > 0:24:40which is literally on the Trust's doorstep.

0:24:42 > 0:24:45They've brought out a new thing now called a resident's pass,

0:24:45 > 0:24:48which you pay a £5 fee for a year,

0:24:48 > 0:24:51which entitles you to go in to house as many times as you want

0:24:51 > 0:24:53and it does save you a lot of money.

0:24:53 > 0:24:56They will have to reach new customers

0:24:56 > 0:24:58if they are to meet their own visitor target

0:24:58 > 0:25:00and here, Justin feels, they have an image problem.

0:25:02 > 0:25:05They view us as being, in Wales, as being English,

0:25:05 > 0:25:07being very, very white, very, very middle class,

0:25:07 > 0:25:10very uninterested in a lot of things

0:25:10 > 0:25:13that are very important to people in South Wales.

0:25:13 > 0:25:17That we exclude people, we are, sort of, palms out kind of people.

0:25:17 > 0:25:20One of the roles of the National Trust

0:25:20 > 0:25:23is to share what we have as widely as possible,

0:25:23 > 0:25:26which is why somewhere like Tredegar House is so important

0:25:26 > 0:25:29to the Trust in Wales because it reaches out to a demographic

0:25:29 > 0:25:34that normally is not available to us.

0:25:42 > 0:25:46Tredegar House feels different to most National Trust stately homes.

0:25:46 > 0:25:47Because it was once a school,

0:25:47 > 0:25:50and then opened up for community use by the council,

0:25:50 > 0:25:54people here feel a sense of ownership,

0:25:54 > 0:25:56and the National Trust are capitalising on this

0:25:56 > 0:25:59in their use of local volunteers,

0:25:59 > 0:26:02working and caring for their house.

0:26:04 > 0:26:07It's always a delicate relationship with volunteers.

0:26:07 > 0:26:12One of the things that's interesting is that if I work with volunteers,

0:26:12 > 0:26:14I often find that volunteers, for one reason or another,

0:26:14 > 0:26:18either say they're going to do it then don't do it,

0:26:18 > 0:26:22or then they suddenly go on holiday or whatever.

0:26:22 > 0:26:24I mean, you have that also? That experience?

0:26:24 > 0:26:28Yeah, the vast... The National Trust is a voluntary organisation.

0:26:28 > 0:26:31We're run by volunteers, our council, our trustees, they're all volunteers.

0:26:31 > 0:26:32Our chairman's a volunteer.

0:26:32 > 0:26:35So, in essence, we're people who are dedicating time to do this,

0:26:35 > 0:26:38and we do put structure around that, and that's our secret.

0:26:38 > 0:26:41So, you have the whole Trust, over 60,000 people,

0:26:41 > 0:26:44who volunteer their services but within a structure.

0:26:44 > 0:26:47And that's that structure that makes us less like herding cats, although

0:26:47 > 0:26:50it is like herding cats sometimes, but less than other organisations.

0:26:53 > 0:26:58There are a lot of unresolved issues here at Tredegar.

0:26:58 > 0:27:00Can they get the historical mix right?

0:27:00 > 0:27:03Can they keep the locals on side?

0:27:03 > 0:27:06Can they make the casual passer-by turn off the M4

0:27:06 > 0:27:10and become one of the 75,000 extra visitors they require?

0:27:12 > 0:27:14Quite frankly, it is a gamble.

0:27:14 > 0:27:16It's a huge gamble and it's quite scary, actually.

0:27:16 > 0:27:19But, for all our sake, it has to work

0:27:19 > 0:27:23and it will only work if we can engage the local community.

0:27:23 > 0:27:24It's that simple.

0:27:24 > 0:27:27And that's my goal, is to become increasingly relevant

0:27:27 > 0:27:29to more people in South Wales.

0:27:29 > 0:27:33There's a lot more to do. Isn't it a bit overwhelming?

0:27:34 > 0:27:37It's a big jigsaw and we're slowly piecing it all together.

0:27:37 > 0:27:39It's very exciting. It's great.

0:27:39 > 0:27:41You're brilliantly enthusiastic about it.

0:27:41 > 0:27:43It doesn't ever seem... You don't think, sometimes,

0:27:43 > 0:27:46"My God, what a burden we've got here?

0:27:46 > 0:27:48"What a terrible amount of work we've got to do in this place."

0:27:48 > 0:27:50It doesn't feel like a burden.

0:27:50 > 0:27:54There is a lot of work, but it's exciting and it's energising.

0:27:54 > 0:27:57The Trust fails. The Trust particularly fails in Wales

0:27:57 > 0:28:01if anybody feels that they can't go to a Trust property

0:28:01 > 0:28:03because it's not for them.

0:28:03 > 0:28:06That somehow they're excluded from the process.

0:28:06 > 0:28:09That's not going to happen, not on my tenure.

0:28:09 > 0:28:13There is no doubt that Tredegar House is a unique place

0:28:13 > 0:28:16with a unique set of challenges for National Trust Wales,

0:28:16 > 0:28:18but the risks are clear.

0:28:18 > 0:28:23As I stand here, I can hear the traffic rumbling past

0:28:23 > 0:28:25on the motorway, over there.

0:28:26 > 0:28:28They want to get some of that traffic,

0:28:28 > 0:28:32and a lot of the locals, to come into this place

0:28:32 > 0:28:36and they've got another 48 years to see if they can do it.