0:01:12 > 0:01:17PHONE RINGING
0:01:20 > 0:01:23Hello, Ronnie Scott's club.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26Yes, we're open tonight.
0:01:26 > 0:01:30What time do we open? Well, what time can you get here?
0:01:30 > 0:01:32No, you can wear what you like. Just wear a tie.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35Nothing else, just a tie.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37OK. Bye-bye.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05'"As I listened to the sweet and soothing sound,
0:02:05 > 0:02:10'"I once again reflected, 'thank the Lord I was born into the jazz age.'
0:02:10 > 0:02:13'"What on earth could it have been when all they had to listen to
0:02:13 > 0:02:15'"was ballad tunes and waltzes?
0:02:15 > 0:02:17'"Because jazz music is a thing, that as few things do,
0:02:17 > 0:02:20'"makes you feel really at home in the world here.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24'"As if it's an OK notion to be born a human animal."
0:02:24 > 0:02:27'Colin MacInnes' nameless narrator in Absolute Beginners,
0:02:27 > 0:02:31'explaining why jazz was crucial to his education.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34'MacInnes' cult novel of the late '50s also described Soho,
0:02:34 > 0:02:37'which he loved as much as jazz, with the words,
0:02:37 > 0:02:40'"All the things they say happen, do."
0:02:44 > 0:02:47'Teenagers have been making the weekend pilgrimage up west
0:02:47 > 0:02:49'since the notion of teenagers was invented,
0:02:49 > 0:02:52'hoping it was all true. Converging on the centre
0:02:52 > 0:02:56'from the asteroid belt of Southgate or Purley.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58'Hoping to live your life in one night.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01'Of course Soho didn't give you everything, but it promised a lot.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03'It seemed to say that you could
0:03:03 > 0:03:06'leave behind the person you were supposed to be in the suburbs
0:03:06 > 0:03:09'and start again in another dimension.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12'And in a lot of cases, you might have been taken on that escape route
0:03:12 > 0:03:15'by some of the most exciting sounds of the 20th century,
0:03:15 > 0:03:17'the sounds of jazz.'
0:04:13 > 0:04:18'I've always admired Ronnie for what he's done and been thankful for the sake of British jazz.'
0:04:18 > 0:04:20And for world jazz that he's done it.
0:04:20 > 0:04:26Because if you mention jazz to any American anywhere, any jazz fan
0:04:26 > 0:04:30anywhere in the United States or Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34Perhaps the first thing they'll make an effort at connecting with you,
0:04:34 > 0:04:38if you say you are from England or if they know you're from the United Kingdom,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41they say, "Ah, I've been to Ronnie Scott's."
0:04:41 > 0:04:43It's synonymous with jazz in this country.
0:04:43 > 0:04:47Politicians lead the life of night club pianists I always think,
0:04:47 > 0:04:50in terms of hours. I mean we tend to work late into the night
0:04:50 > 0:04:53and the voting is usually late at night, the house sits at night.
0:04:53 > 0:04:57Eh, you've got to be a bit of a late night person to be a politician.
0:04:57 > 0:05:01If you get relaxation out of jazz, if you get excitement out of jazz,
0:05:01 > 0:05:04if you can switch off and concentrate on jazz
0:05:04 > 0:05:06after a day on quite different things,
0:05:06 > 0:05:08then this is the place to come.
0:05:08 > 0:05:14It's coming home, it's a little nest of happiness.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18It's good sounds, sounds that heal.
0:05:18 > 0:05:24All the recent wounds are all healed here at Ronnie Scott's
0:05:24 > 0:05:27because there's always somebody blowing something beautiful,
0:05:27 > 0:05:33talking a kind of um... unconscious poetry,
0:05:33 > 0:05:36that only good music can speak to you.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55'Capturing the bird in flight.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57'This time the Chicago saxophonist Johnny Griffin
0:05:57 > 0:06:02'is caught by the lens of David Redfern whose images you see all over the club.
0:06:02 > 0:06:06'A visual history of this place called Ronnie's.'
0:06:14 > 0:06:17# There will be other lips that I may kiss
0:06:17 > 0:06:20# Uh, uh, um
0:06:20 > 0:06:23# They won't thrill me like yours used to do
0:06:24 > 0:06:27# Say I may dream a million dreams
0:06:27 > 0:06:30# But how can they come true
0:06:30 > 0:06:32# If there will never, ever be
0:06:32 > 0:06:35# Another-oho-oho-other you... #
0:06:41 > 0:06:44# I never go back to Georgia
0:06:44 > 0:06:47# Cos I like London, aah... #
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Can you remember when you first met Ronnie Scott?
0:07:25 > 0:07:28I remember that one really well because I went by the club
0:07:28 > 0:07:32and I was coming down them little steps and fell.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35Oh man, you know on them iron steps?
0:07:35 > 0:07:41I hurt my leg. I was mad with Ronnie Scott ever since.
0:07:41 > 0:07:46And now, you know, he's a very good, close friend and he's funny too.
0:07:46 > 0:07:54'But Ronnie had done a tremendous job about the promulgation of our music.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58'He's always had somebody in there, some of the younger guys,
0:07:58 > 0:08:06'the older guys and he plays there. Ronnie does a terrific job with that club.'
0:08:38 > 0:08:42'Frith Street, Soho. Ronnie Scott's isn't the hole in the wall it used to be,
0:08:42 > 0:08:45'but a big sophisticated west end nightclub.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47'Dependant now, on lucrative passing trade
0:08:47 > 0:08:49'as well as hard core jazz fans.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52'One thing that hasn't changed in 30 years is that Scott,
0:08:52 > 0:08:55'armed with a tenor saxophone and a wisecrack,
0:08:55 > 0:08:57is still earning his keep.'
0:09:24 > 0:09:28Thank you and good evening, ladies and gentleman, on behalf of the quintet.
0:09:28 > 0:09:32That's Dick Pierce on the trumpet and flugelhorn, Martin Drew on the drums,
0:09:32 > 0:09:37Ron Mathewson on the bass, John Critchinson on the piano and myself.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40Five musicians who brought a great deal of pleasure to very few people.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44And that one was for a gentleman who asked for The Yellow Rose Of Texas.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51But I hope he enjoyed that cos it does have a lot of the same notes in it.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54Little touch of humour there.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57I come from a very poor family in the east end of London.
0:09:57 > 0:09:59We really were desperately poor.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01Had to buy all our clothes at a war surplus store.
0:10:01 > 0:10:05Let me tell you it was no fun for a nine year old Jewish kid to have
0:10:05 > 0:10:09to go to school in the east end wearing a Japanese admiral's uniform.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16'Ronnie Scott was born Ronald Schatt in Aldgate in 1927.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20'Via the traditional route of Jewish youth clubs and bar mitzvahs,
0:10:20 > 0:10:23'the young Ronnie learned the ways of musicians.'
0:10:23 > 0:10:27My first saxophone lessons were from a guy called Jack Lewis
0:10:27 > 0:10:30who was an old, retired, dance band saxophone player.
0:10:30 > 0:10:31And he had a son called Harry Lewis,
0:10:31 > 0:10:34who was a professional saxophone player,
0:10:34 > 0:10:39who ended up marrying Vera Lynn. And so, that's my claim to fame.
0:10:39 > 0:10:41I took lessons from Vera Lynn's father-in-law.
0:10:41 > 0:10:46'The first instrument I ever bought was a cornet, which I bought
0:10:46 > 0:10:54'from an antique shop and then I got a very old soprano saxophone,
0:10:54 > 0:10:57'I mean a really old one with a double octave key.
0:10:57 > 0:10:59'The double octave key went out at around 1827.
0:10:59 > 0:11:05'I thought "God this is difficult." And then my parents saw that
0:11:05 > 0:11:10'I was serious about trying to play something and they bought me a tenor saxophone.'
0:12:00 > 0:12:03'During the early war years, Ronnie Scott and his friends
0:12:03 > 0:12:09'hung out with all the professional musicians they could, hoping for the big break.'
0:12:09 > 0:12:13'Well the first job what I got, I think one of those places was at...
0:12:13 > 0:12:15'a place called The Jamboree'
0:12:15 > 0:12:20and Carlo Krahmer was the band leader and they had a very good band there.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24And as I remember, the tenor saxophone player in the band was leaving
0:12:24 > 0:12:28and his replacement couldn't start for two or three weeks.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32And Carlo asked me if I'd fill in for those two or three weeks.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36And I told him "Look, I've only been playing a year or 18 months,"
0:12:36 > 0:12:40or whatever it was. I was about 16-17 years old.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42And he said, "Well it doesn't matter,
0:12:42 > 0:12:45"I'm contracted to present six musicians."
0:12:45 > 0:12:48And the band says, all you've got to do is sit there.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52And so that's what I did for two or three weeks, virtually just miming.
0:12:52 > 0:12:57'Carlo was a great collector and a very knowledgeable musician
0:12:57 > 0:13:00'and he had one room which was lined with records.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03And we used to go round there occasionally
0:13:03 > 0:13:06and listen to the latest imports which he managed to get.
0:13:06 > 0:13:11And that was the first time I heard Charlie Parker play,
0:13:11 > 0:13:12I'd heard of Charlie Parker,
0:13:12 > 0:13:18Red Cross I think was the name of the track as I remember.
0:13:33 > 0:13:38It just seemed to be the right... contemporary way to play, you know.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42It's very difficult to put into words, but it turned us all around.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57'Charlie Parker and the new jazz became a symbol of protest
0:13:57 > 0:13:58'for an entire generation.
0:13:58 > 0:14:02'For a lot of young Britons, Parker's music seemed to be a vision of the future.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05'But it could only be experienced through records.
0:14:05 > 0:14:11'Though his fire sprang directly from the beleaguered black American culture that had spawned jazz,
0:14:11 > 0:14:13'Parker appealed to outsiders everywhere.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17'The hipster was born, embracing bebop culture as an antidote
0:14:17 > 0:14:18'to the elitism of European high art
0:14:18 > 0:14:21'and the often maudlin pop music of the day.'
0:14:21 > 0:14:23Well, I suppose we were always...
0:14:23 > 0:14:26'Here are three hipsters, part of Ronnie Scott's circle,
0:14:26 > 0:14:29'whose lives were changed by Charlie Parker.'
0:14:29 > 0:14:34Don't forget that when bebop came out the Melody Maker's chief critic,
0:14:34 > 0:14:38Edgar Jackson, said um... "this is a load of rubbish.
0:14:38 > 0:14:40"Charlie Parker can't play his instrument.
0:14:40 > 0:14:43"This isn't modern harmony, it's wrong notes."
0:14:43 > 0:14:46- And so he damned it right from the off.- That's true, yeah.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49And so because it was damned in the eyes of the musical establishment,
0:14:49 > 0:14:53because we were trying to play this, we were unemployable.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55I mean this is why we had to form our own scene.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57That's right, still are!
0:14:57 > 0:14:59THEY ALL LAUGH
0:14:59 > 0:15:03Well, I think what had happened was we'd recognised a language,
0:15:03 > 0:15:05a musical language, that was for our time.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07That was our time.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10And we just took to it like that.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13That's why I say I don't... I mean, when I first heard Ronnie,
0:15:13 > 0:15:17Ronnie was always playing, was always playing that way.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21Not exactly bebop, but that was the road it was going down.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24And he had the technique and the power to play it.
0:15:24 > 0:15:31There was never any question of being a kind of player now, and then a different player.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33It just grew, didn't it? Just went on.
0:15:33 > 0:15:37- It was the same for all of us. - And it wasn't just the music.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40I mean, the same thing happened in art.
0:15:40 > 0:15:45You look at the Jackson Pollocks and the Mark Rothkos and those kind of people,
0:15:45 > 0:15:49who broke away from the previous static forms of painting.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52They went on a similar path. I suppose the war must have been
0:15:52 > 0:15:55the big catalyst, really, for the whole thing.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58- War always creates a revolution.- Well it smashed all the existing values,
0:15:58 > 0:16:00they all went out of the window.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16'The union ban meant you couldn't hear American artists
0:16:16 > 0:16:19'like Parker, Lester Young or Billie Holliday in the flesh.
0:16:19 > 0:16:24'If you couldn't raise the fare to the States, but knew your way around a dance band song book,
0:16:24 > 0:16:27'one way was to get signed up for Geraldo's Navy -
0:16:27 > 0:16:30'the orchestras that entertained transatlantic passengers.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33'It may not have meant playing the music you dreamed of,
0:16:33 > 0:16:37'but it took you to the Holy Grail of New York's jazz clubland - 52nd Street.'
0:16:40 > 0:16:44'The boat docked at pier 90, I think it was.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46'Which was right, virtually at 52nd Street.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50'So we get off the boat, down the gangway and then look up.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53'And on the lamppost, you know those famous lamppost signs?
0:16:53 > 0:16:57'It said 52nd Street, and we thought what?!'
0:16:57 > 0:17:00The little brownstone buildings all had cellars and basements
0:17:00 > 0:17:03and they were all clubs on either side of the road.
0:17:03 > 0:17:09And outside each club there was a doorman with his hat and uniform,
0:17:09 > 0:17:14looking a bit tacky I suppose, but saying, "Come one fellas now, Lady Day just going on."
0:17:14 > 0:17:18Another one saying, "Dizzie's Big Band going on fellas, no cover charge."
0:17:18 > 0:17:20I mean, it was just like fairyland.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23All these people that you had always wanted to hear all your life and you
0:17:23 > 0:17:27had to choose which one, you couldn't hear them all at the same time.
0:17:34 > 0:17:39'To the young jazz tourists, New York meant cliffhanging music,
0:17:39 > 0:17:43'un-rationed luxuries, hip fashions and the feeling that the distance
0:17:43 > 0:17:48'between dreams and fulfilment was shorter than it was in London.'
0:17:51 > 0:17:56'When they came back, it seemed to be to a community of musicians that were stuck in the past.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00'They met, gossiped and exchanged work, commercial work not jazz,
0:18:00 > 0:18:04'in Archer Street off Piccadilly - an open air job centre.
0:18:06 > 0:18:10'The young players tried to create their own world for their own music.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13'Like the short-lived Club 11 at the beginning of the 1950s.'
0:18:22 > 0:18:27'Throughout that decade, adventurous jazz and dance band music lived uneasily side by side.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30'But the beboppers began to win a new audience.
0:18:30 > 0:18:34'Ronnie Scott, by this time the most highly regarded saxophonist in Britain,
0:18:34 > 0:18:37'started to lead successful bands of his own,
0:18:37 > 0:18:41'over the years steadily reducing the proportion of schmaltz required to get work.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45'In 1957, he formed an all out jazz band, The Jazz Couriers,
0:18:45 > 0:18:48'with the prodigious young saxophonist Tubby Hayes.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50'When The Couriers folded,
0:18:50 > 0:18:55'Scott and an old playing partner, Pete King, teamed up again.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59'This time not for a band, but for an old Scott dream of home.'
0:19:00 > 0:19:04The club was never intended to be what it's turned out to be.
0:19:04 > 0:19:11It was somewhere for us to try and improve and try and develop our music.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15Because what we were doing, we were earning a living playing in dance bands,
0:19:15 > 0:19:17but we really didn't get a chance to play.
0:19:17 > 0:19:21And it was, really, getting the chance to play and maybe have
0:19:21 > 0:19:26a decent piano and a microphone and maybe a light or something.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28And that's all we really set out to do.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04'On October 30th, 1959, Ronnie Scott's club opened
0:20:04 > 0:20:08'in a basement in Gerrard Street, in the heart of China Town,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11'where the strongest drink was stewed tea,
0:20:11 > 0:20:13'the dressing room was a cubbyhole
0:20:13 > 0:20:16'and the attractions were strictly local musicians.'
0:20:23 > 0:20:26This is the site of the first club and what a sight it is.
0:20:26 > 0:20:32It was 39 Gerrard. We had kind of a Heath Robinson awning
0:20:32 > 0:20:36that went up here and covered the stairs which we had to roll up and take away every night.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38Amazing.
0:20:38 > 0:20:43This used to be a taxi driver's all night hang out thing with a little coffee bar.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47And they used to come down here and play cards, the cab drivers.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52And I think, as I remember, on Sunday afternoons, they used to run some things.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56- Yeah, and Saturday nights. - Saturday nights, yeah.
0:20:56 > 0:21:02And the landlord, a guy named Jack Forder, was an ex-cab driver.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Eh...wasn't doing very well, the place,
0:21:05 > 0:21:08and he asked us if we would like to take it over full-time.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11Which we did. Paid the rent which was something like,
0:21:11 > 0:21:14I don't know, £12 a week? Something like that.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17How did you furnish the place the first time around?
0:21:17 > 0:21:21Very sparsely, if I remember correctly.
0:21:21 > 0:21:26- Eh, just chairs and a few... - We went down the east end, I remember.- The east end, yeah.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28To a wholesale, kind of furniture manufacturer
0:21:28 > 0:21:33and bought, I don't know, 50 or 60 chairs.
0:21:33 > 0:21:38- And we...hired a piano, I think? - Yeah, we did, yeah.- Hired a piano.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41- Had trouble getting the piano downstairs.- Yeah.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45And... Sorry. Two and six all night.
0:21:45 > 0:21:52And we hired some sound equipment and painted everything white.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55Everything in sight was painted white.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57And we opened, went from there.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51'At its gayest and brightest, the west end has
0:22:51 > 0:22:52'the real look of Christmas.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55'Movies, theatres, restaurants do their part to see
0:22:55 > 0:22:58'that a good time will be had by all. So why should anyone worry?
0:22:58 > 0:23:02'There's certainly nothing disturbs the minds of the happy folk
0:23:02 > 0:23:05'who are starting out on a jolly evening.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08'But only a stone's throw from the bright lights, it's a different story.
0:23:08 > 0:23:12'This is Soho, catering for all tastes, low included.'
0:23:12 > 0:23:16'Well you have to remember, in those days, the situation of jazz musicians
0:23:16 > 0:23:19'was a powerless one. You could play jazz,'
0:23:19 > 0:23:21but you had to work for people that...
0:23:21 > 0:23:26They called themselves jazz club proprietors, what they really were
0:23:26 > 0:23:30were petty felons, most of them. And they would hire a room,
0:23:30 > 0:23:33hire musicians, give them thrupence each and pocket the proceeds.
0:23:33 > 0:23:35They were nothing to do with music.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38They were going to sell music cos it made money, that's all.
0:23:38 > 0:23:43'So when Ronnie finally formed a club it was a revolutionary thing to do
0:23:43 > 0:23:47'because there had never been a club where when you went to work
0:23:47 > 0:23:51'you were working for one of the fellas. There had never been that, ever.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54'Not in the history of British music.'
0:23:55 > 0:24:00'From 1959-1961, Ronnie Scott's club served the local jazz scene.
0:24:00 > 0:24:05'But eventually, to cover the rent, the club began to need stars with more rarity value.
0:24:05 > 0:24:07'Which at that time meant Americans.'
0:24:08 > 0:24:12'Union regulations about foreign players were the stumbling block,
0:24:12 > 0:24:16'but Pete King eventually broke the impasse bringing in Zoot Sims,
0:24:16 > 0:24:21'one of the most relaxed and elegant members of the 1940s Woody Herman band,
0:24:21 > 0:24:23'to be the first of a dazzling list.'
0:25:20 > 0:25:23'Apart from it being an education for everybody, it was somehow
0:25:23 > 0:25:27'an accolade for the club. It made the club a more serious business.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31'This was still in Gerrard Street where it was still a very pokey little hole.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34'And I remember, I mean, how insufferable people are.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37'You brought down Zoot Sims, Ben Webster,
0:25:37 > 0:25:42'Sonny Stitt, Stan Getz, everybody and there were complaints?!
0:25:42 > 0:25:44'Why do you only bring saxophone players down?
0:25:44 > 0:25:47'Why this policy? And Ronnie said,
0:25:47 > 0:25:49'"You go open your club and invite who you want.
0:25:49 > 0:25:53'"In the meantime, the world's greatest saxophone players
0:25:53 > 0:25:55'"are being paraded through for our benefit.
0:25:55 > 0:25:57'"It's a fantastic business."
0:25:57 > 0:26:00'It made the club something very much more
0:26:00 > 0:26:01'than a local, parochial thing.
0:26:01 > 0:26:05'It put it on a European, and eventually the world, map.'
0:26:22 > 0:26:26'The first group as such that we had was the Bill Evans Trio.'
0:26:26 > 0:26:29And when Bill arrived... Well before Bill arrived,
0:26:29 > 0:26:33we decided that the piano we had wasn't good enough for Bill Evans.
0:26:33 > 0:26:41So we sold it I think, just a couple of days before he was due to arrive,
0:26:41 > 0:26:48with the idea of hiring a piano from a firm that was in the vicinity.
0:26:48 > 0:26:54And we...arranged a week beforehand what piano we wanted.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57And they arranged that they were going to deliver it and so on.
0:26:57 > 0:27:03And then, a representative came down from this piano hiring place,
0:27:03 > 0:27:05took a look at the premises, and said well...
0:27:05 > 0:27:07This is the day before Bill Evans is due to open.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10And we got no piano and he said "Well no, I'm sorry.
0:27:10 > 0:27:14"We can't hire you a piano." I said, "Well, why not?"
0:27:14 > 0:27:17"If you take it down the stairs, it's liable to get damaged."
0:27:17 > 0:27:19Then, "I didn't know it was a jazz club."
0:27:19 > 0:27:24And I think he had visions of people pouring beer into the piano
0:27:24 > 0:27:27and girls laying on it. I don't know what he thought would happen to it.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33'And finally I remember Pete saying to him "Look, bugger off."
0:27:33 > 0:27:35'Or words to that effect, you know.'
0:27:41 > 0:27:47'But in the end we managed to find a piano belonging to someone or other.
0:27:47 > 0:27:51'A nice grand piano. But, I mean it was a very last minute thing
0:27:51 > 0:27:55'I was just wondering what the Bill Evans Trio were going to do without a piano?
0:27:55 > 0:27:57'Maybe Bill would dance or sing or something.'
0:29:03 > 0:29:08'In those early days, most of the American soloists came alone and needed local accompaniment.'
0:29:11 > 0:29:16'For seven years the house pianist at Ronnie Scott's was Stan Tracey --
0:29:16 > 0:29:18'a gifted improviser and composer in his own right.'
0:29:32 > 0:29:35- Oh, I don't believe... - What was that?- It's a string gone.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38- They just tuned it.- Yeah. - Don't tell Pete.
0:29:38 > 0:29:39LAUGHTER
0:29:39 > 0:29:43- Oh...- Just like the old days! - Just like the old days.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46What is it like working in here these days?
0:29:46 > 0:29:49I cannot tell a lie, I preferred working in the old place.
0:29:49 > 0:29:56Um... For me it was more adventurous. I suppose, I mean, it had to be
0:29:56 > 0:30:01because the whole situation was new, working with those guys
0:30:01 > 0:30:04and the whole atmosphere was different.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07'Which of those players did you feel the happiest with?'
0:30:07 > 0:30:10'Well, there were several I felt very happy with,
0:30:10 > 0:30:16'but the one that stands out above all the others for me, was Sonny Rollins
0:30:16 > 0:30:19'for his inventiveness. You know, night after night.
0:30:19 > 0:30:21'Tremendous.'
0:30:30 > 0:30:33'You never really knew what to expect. For instance,
0:30:33 > 0:30:40'there was one night we played Three Little Words for the first set complete, about an hour.
0:30:40 > 0:30:44'Had a break and came back on. And played Three Little Words for an hour.
0:30:44 > 0:30:50'And there was so much invention going on that it really didn't matter.
0:30:50 > 0:30:55'You know, it was quite a fantastic gig...experience.'
0:31:00 > 0:31:05'That was my first experience in England, playing at Ronnie Scott's.'
0:31:07 > 0:31:10And actually if you recall,
0:31:10 > 0:31:13the club at that time was on German Street?
0:31:13 > 0:31:17- Gerrard Street. - Gerrard Street, sorry.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20And it was in the basement,
0:31:20 > 0:31:24so it was very similar to a lot of clubs in New York in a way,
0:31:24 > 0:31:27that are down in the basement, you know.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30So...physically,
0:31:30 > 0:31:35it was pretty much like a lot of jazz clubs, you know.
0:31:35 > 0:31:40Small, comparatively small. Um...
0:31:40 > 0:31:42Crowded, you know, and the cigarette smoke
0:31:42 > 0:31:45and all of this stuff, you know.
0:31:45 > 0:31:50So it was... I felt quite at home there, actually.
0:31:50 > 0:31:55Stan Tracey tells the story of the first rehearsal he remembers with you
0:31:55 > 0:31:57when you came in and the band was waiting there.
0:31:57 > 0:32:01- And you asked for Prelude To A Kiss, I think.- Mmm-hmm.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04And, as Stan remembers it, you played it all afternoon
0:32:04 > 0:32:08and then never asked for it at any point on any of the shows.
0:32:08 > 0:32:10Is that the way you often rehearse with a band?
0:32:10 > 0:32:15Well it's possible because I was probably trying to hear the band
0:32:15 > 0:32:17and let them hear me and...
0:32:17 > 0:32:21Sort of get an idea of my approach.
0:32:21 > 0:32:27A lot more so than actual songs that we would play,
0:32:27 > 0:32:30because of course, I like to play in a spontaneous manner.
0:32:30 > 0:32:34It's possible that we did that, yeah. Yeah.
0:33:48 > 0:33:52'You know there was a lot of people there doing an engagement.
0:33:52 > 0:33:54'It was really packed every night.
0:33:54 > 0:34:01'And you know, when you play music into a club,
0:34:01 > 0:34:03'you know, the music stays in the walls.'
0:34:06 > 0:34:11'And when you walk in there you can feel some of the music
0:34:11 > 0:34:14'that's been played there for all these years ago.'
0:34:18 > 0:34:25'So that night, even though we had stopped playing, the music was still...there,
0:34:25 > 0:34:29'everything was still there. You could feel it all there, you know?
0:34:29 > 0:34:35'So then I asked Ronnie and Peter, I said, "Look, let me stay down here and I'm going to write some music.
0:34:35 > 0:34:39'"I'll be quiet. There won't be anybody here and I can work and the atmosphere's perfect."
0:34:39 > 0:34:45'So they said, "OK." And everybody went home and locked the doors.
0:34:45 > 0:34:52'And most of the score and the sketching for Alfie was done right in the club.'
0:35:25 > 0:35:27'"Are they all like that?
0:35:27 > 0:35:29'"Are all who like what?
0:35:29 > 0:35:32'"Jazz musicians, do they all inhabit another galaxy?
0:35:32 > 0:35:35'"He seems to have a little trouble making contact
0:35:35 > 0:35:38'"with life as we know it on the planet Earth.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40'"I guess he's got tunes
0:35:40 > 0:35:43'"going on in his head all the time. Conversation comes second.
0:35:43 > 0:35:46'"That's why he talks in quotations a lot of the time.
0:35:46 > 0:35:50'"We all do. All our best lines are nicked from Duke Ellington or Ronnie Scott.
0:35:50 > 0:35:55'" 'Have a nice life,' is Ronnie's. 'Love You Madly,' is the Duke's.
0:35:55 > 0:35:57'"Music's the real way of speaking.
0:35:57 > 0:36:01'"All the rest is just filling in time between gigs.
0:36:01 > 0:36:03'"And that's jazz.'
0:36:21 > 0:36:23Hello, Dorothy. How are you?
0:36:23 > 0:36:25Friday and Saturday at six?
0:36:31 > 0:36:35'Misterioso is my first proper, grown-up novel.'
0:36:35 > 0:36:38It's also the title of a piece of music by Thelonious Monk.
0:36:38 > 0:36:44The novel deals in part with jazz and jazz clubs and that kind of ambience.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48And what I've tried to do in writing about jazz,
0:36:48 > 0:36:51is to try to crack the riddle of what happens? You know, why...
0:36:51 > 0:36:56I think jazz musicians are like writers in the sense that
0:36:56 > 0:36:59you don't actually choose to be one, it chooses you.
0:36:59 > 0:37:03And having been chosen, you don't really have too much choice.
0:37:03 > 0:37:08I think the other thing we have in common is that we're confronted
0:37:08 > 0:37:10with the equivalent of a blank sheet of paper.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13In our case, in a writer's case, a real blank sheet of paper.
0:37:13 > 0:37:18And what I know is, I'm going to write a scene or a group of scenes.
0:37:18 > 0:37:23And I know there is a theme which you're going to carry out.
0:37:23 > 0:37:27And if you're going to develop over 32 bars, let us say,
0:37:27 > 0:37:30but I don't know what the notes are and I'd sit at the typewriter.
0:37:30 > 0:37:33And I'd play the notes that developed that theme.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39'And as Lester Young used to say, it's about telling a story.'
0:39:02 > 0:39:06'In 1965, the club moved to the current plusher and bigger premises
0:39:06 > 0:39:08'in Frith Street.'
0:39:09 > 0:39:14'Gerrard Street just became too small, you know, if we wanted to do anything at all ambitious.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17'I mean, Gerrard Street was the kind of place that you had to pack
0:39:17 > 0:39:20'the place every night to pay the rent.
0:39:20 > 0:39:25'And very often we were packed and still didn't pay the rent.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27'So we had to move to somewhere bigger.'
0:39:32 > 0:39:35But the night we opened, I remember there was no electricity here,
0:39:35 > 0:39:39or very little electricity. I mean only a few things were connected
0:39:39 > 0:39:43like the amplification was connected and that was about all.
0:39:43 > 0:39:45- We had candles...- Candles, yeah.
0:39:45 > 0:39:48- ..on all the tables.- Wires were hanging down all over the place.
0:39:48 > 0:39:53It's amazing the GLC then,
0:39:53 > 0:39:56passed us to allow us to open, actually.
0:39:56 > 0:40:00Yeah. And there was no... There was no distinction between
0:40:00 > 0:40:04the gents and the ladies toilets, I remember. Very bohemian.
0:40:04 > 0:40:05You know, really very French.
0:40:05 > 0:40:09But people took it very well, you know. And it worked.
0:40:09 > 0:40:13- Yusef Lateef and Ernestine Anderson...- Anderson we opened with.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16- Yeah, that's right.- It was great. Great music.- Very good.
0:40:16 > 0:40:20When Buddy Rich came down, you were undergoing some more building work.
0:40:20 > 0:40:22What happened then?
0:40:22 > 0:40:25We took on the extra part of the club as it is now.
0:40:25 > 0:40:29Buddy's band opened and I remember Howard coming down
0:40:29 > 0:40:33a couple of days prior to it saying, "Oh, God. We've got to cancel."
0:40:33 > 0:40:35"You'll never be open in time," you know.
0:40:35 > 0:40:38I remember Buddy saying on the microphone when he opened
0:40:38 > 0:40:41that it was the first time he'd ever worked in a garage.
0:40:42 > 0:40:47- In a condemned building.- Was it condemned building? Oh, right.
0:40:47 > 0:40:52Who put the lights out? All right, West Side. Here we go.
0:40:54 > 0:40:58One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
0:41:20 > 0:41:24Believe it or not, ladies and Jews, he's here!
0:41:24 > 0:41:29The comic of the century, the legendary...yes! Mel Brooks!
0:41:29 > 0:41:31Ha-ha, ha-ha.
0:41:31 > 0:41:35Yes, I'm here at Ronnie Scott's because he promised
0:41:35 > 0:41:40ten visits here for nothing if I do this cockamamie show.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43- You were a drummer...- I was a drummer before I was a comic.
0:41:43 > 0:41:44How did you first hear about it?
0:41:44 > 0:41:49Ah... I first heard noise coming out of a window in Brighton Court.
0:41:49 > 0:41:51Brighton Court, you say?
0:41:51 > 0:41:53No-no. Not Brighton by the sea.
0:41:53 > 0:41:55Not Brighton Pavilion furniture.
0:41:55 > 0:41:58Brighton. Jews! Coney Island! Brooklyn.
0:41:58 > 0:41:59Brighton Beach.
0:41:59 > 0:42:01'There was a lot of noise coming out of a window.
0:42:01 > 0:42:04'I was walking past with my friend Bobby.
0:42:04 > 0:42:08'So we looked in the window and there was this Jewish Aborigine
0:42:08 > 0:42:12at the drums. Sweat flying, sticks going.
0:42:12 > 0:42:16'That was maybe the greatest hour of my life.'
0:42:19 > 0:42:21'But Ronnie Scott's, he was great here.
0:42:21 > 0:42:25'This is a great room for him. He heard himself properly, you know?'
0:42:25 > 0:42:27And he could do very pretty things here
0:42:27 > 0:42:29and he didn't have to be too loud, you know?
0:42:29 > 0:42:32This is a great place, a great place for Buddy to play.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35You made The Producers, which is about bad businessmen
0:42:35 > 0:42:39- trying to be good businessmen by a round about route.- Right.
0:42:39 > 0:42:42- Do you think...- Do you think that's what Ronnie's doing?
0:42:42 > 0:42:47- Well he's often said...- He's making money on his taxes?- No-no I don't think it's like that.- No?
0:42:47 > 0:42:51He says it would be a disadvantage to be a good businessman in the jazz business.
0:42:51 > 0:42:55- You would be a fool.- If you knew about business you wouldn't bother.
0:42:55 > 0:42:57You couldn't break even. Right. Never.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59You would never be able to pay the musicians,
0:42:59 > 0:43:04the help at the bar, the people who clean up at night,
0:43:04 > 0:43:08the waiters, the busboys, the waitress.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10You could not... You can't.
0:43:10 > 0:43:13Because you can't ask them to pay enough money to cover your nut.
0:43:13 > 0:43:17Ever. You can't do it. I mean... It's a losing proposition.
0:43:36 > 0:43:40'But Ronnie lives for jazz. He lives for the sound of horns
0:43:40 > 0:43:43'and glissandos on keyboards and, I mean, he lives for that.
0:43:43 > 0:43:45'I mean he's... He's like I am.
0:43:45 > 0:43:51'I mean, he's a Jew freak who cannot live without great jazz music, you know.'
0:43:51 > 0:43:55TELEPHONE RINGING
0:43:55 > 0:43:58'Good afternoon, Ronnie Scott's.'
0:43:58 > 0:44:01'The club is the most peculiar thing. When you're running a...
0:44:01 > 0:44:07'When you're running a club for music and not for money,
0:44:07 > 0:44:13'you don't set any budgets like normal, sensible businessmen would do.
0:44:13 > 0:44:17'You just go ahead and do the thing and somehow or other
0:44:17 > 0:44:21'you hope it's going to work, you know. And there were times
0:44:21 > 0:44:28'when you thought "Oh, good Lord. I think we might have cracked it this time."
0:44:28 > 0:44:31'And no sooner you think that, pop!
0:44:31 > 0:44:37'And about six or so years ago we'd gotten very behind with the VAT,
0:44:37 > 0:44:40'the PAYE and things like that.
0:44:40 > 0:44:44'And it looked as though we were going to have to pack it in.'
0:44:44 > 0:44:48I remember when the chains were going to go on the door
0:44:48 > 0:44:51and the accountant turned round to Ronnie
0:44:51 > 0:44:53and we were having this sort of final crunch meeting.
0:44:53 > 0:44:56The accountant said, "Look, you've got to stop."
0:44:56 > 0:44:59And Ronnie looked at me and said, "Well, do we stop?"
0:44:59 > 0:45:00"Now? What do we do, Pete?"
0:45:00 > 0:45:05And I don't know whether it was the horror of not knowing
0:45:05 > 0:45:09what was going to happen, it was too late for the self-greed
0:45:09 > 0:45:13or whatever it was that made me say it or...
0:45:13 > 0:45:14But it was just a gut feeling.
0:45:14 > 0:45:17I said, "Look, Ron, we can't stop. We've got to go on."
0:45:17 > 0:45:21And Ronnie looked at the accountant and said, "No, we're going on."
0:45:22 > 0:45:26Some of the people who came in the club, they were part of the underworld fraternity
0:45:26 > 0:45:30- in this district during the years. - Hmm.- Including Albert Dimes.
0:45:30 > 0:45:34Well, yeah. Well Albert Dimes was the kind of Godfather, at that time.
0:45:34 > 0:45:40And I knew him simply because he was a friend of my father's.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44And they used to go racing together, you know.
0:45:44 > 0:45:49Um... And when we opened here
0:45:49 > 0:45:53he bought us a magnum of champagne.
0:45:53 > 0:45:57This was in 1965, he bought us a magnum of champagne. It's over there.
0:45:57 > 0:46:03And he said when you're out of debt, open the bottle, you know.
0:46:03 > 0:46:08It's still unopened, you know, but I think we may open it shortly.
0:46:08 > 0:46:10Or auction it at Sotheby's.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14Or just keep it. I think we'll just keep it.
0:46:14 > 0:46:18'If you're in the jazz business, you're not going to be a rich man'
0:46:18 > 0:46:21'That's not quite the exercise.'
0:46:22 > 0:46:24They used to say if the musicians had spent
0:46:24 > 0:46:28the same amount of energy and time and study and application
0:46:28 > 0:46:31studying accountancy, they'd all be millionaires.
0:46:31 > 0:46:33Which I think is probably true.
0:46:33 > 0:46:36There's no more dedicated or hard-working person.
0:46:36 > 0:46:38Although they would often deny that.
0:46:38 > 0:46:41They're the only idealists I've ever come across, as it happens.
0:46:41 > 0:46:45'And I know all kinds of writers and actors and politicians.
0:46:45 > 0:46:49'I only ever met idealists in the jazz world, nowhere else.'
0:46:49 > 0:46:51'Quite good thank you, Prime Minister.
0:46:51 > 0:46:53'So shall we press on with affairs?'
0:46:53 > 0:46:56'Stuff the affairs of the nation, I want to cook.'
0:46:56 > 0:46:58AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:46:58 > 0:47:01'Malcolm Warren from the Press Office would like a word.'
0:47:01 > 0:47:03'Oh, right. Bring him in.'
0:47:04 > 0:47:06'Good afternoon, Prime Minister.'
0:47:06 > 0:47:10'Good afternoon, Malcolm. I'm expecting the cabinet secretary
0:47:10 > 0:47:12'any moment so could you keep this brief?'
0:47:12 > 0:47:15I try to keep up to date, but I'm afraid my present job's interfering.
0:47:15 > 0:47:20I've become a less regular attender at Ronnie's in the last 12 months.
0:47:20 > 0:47:24Once I've got the health service sorted out I shall start coming back.
0:47:24 > 0:47:27'But I've wound up debates against John...
0:47:27 > 0:47:31'I can't go to sleep when I've wound up a debate, the adrenaline's going.
0:47:31 > 0:47:35'And the driver's driven to Ronnie's when I left the house.'
0:47:35 > 0:47:36He knew I wasn't going to go home
0:47:36 > 0:47:39and I've spent the night unwinding and relaxing.
0:47:40 > 0:47:42Hi, have we closed anymore hospitals down?
0:47:42 > 0:47:46Not in your patch, but good to see you on neutral ground.
0:47:48 > 0:47:51John, we've been talking about interests in jazz and so on.
0:47:51 > 0:47:54Now, I'm like Ken. I'd probably like to go to
0:47:54 > 0:47:56the second sitting, if you like.
0:47:56 > 0:48:00But, they're never the same, first or second, are they?
0:48:00 > 0:48:03And you're wondering what you've missed on the first.
0:48:03 > 0:48:05So I'm a one for trying to take the two sessions
0:48:05 > 0:48:08and join the night people, as Ken refers to them as.
0:48:08 > 0:48:12Though I think this is the closest we've ever sat to each other.
0:48:12 > 0:48:14Now I'm really asking you this as politicians.
0:48:14 > 0:48:17Jazz has traditionally had a rather anarchistic image,
0:48:17 > 0:48:19do you think it's losing that?
0:48:19 > 0:48:21I don't think it is losing that.
0:48:21 > 0:48:25I think the MJQ was saved by having a great vibes player.
0:48:25 > 0:48:28Who even in a dinner jacket was still a great vibes player.
0:48:28 > 0:48:31But it was never my favourite setting for jazz
0:48:31 > 0:48:33and never my favourite group.
0:48:33 > 0:48:35And I think, all the time what happened was,
0:48:35 > 0:48:38that people who emerge in jazz tend to be,
0:48:38 > 0:48:42not exactly alternative society, but they are rebellious.
0:48:42 > 0:48:44They're distinctive, they're personal.
0:48:44 > 0:48:46It is a very personal music.
0:48:46 > 0:48:51And jazz is classless. Jazz isn't classed. You know classical music,
0:48:51 > 0:48:55in a way, is part of our social structure of class, quite frankly.
0:48:55 > 0:48:58But jazz isn't and it's because of that, people look down on it.
0:48:58 > 0:49:01It doesn't get the good opportunity to have it expressed
0:49:01 > 0:49:05and that's something we should do more about. Jazz is about rebellion.
0:49:05 > 0:49:08We have these young, black players coming out of south London.
0:49:08 > 0:49:12I still don't know whether Courtney Pine is as good as they say he is,
0:49:12 > 0:49:14I've still never caught him live.
0:49:14 > 0:49:17But that is coming out of a slightly alternative background.
0:49:17 > 0:49:19I go in the States when I'm over there
0:49:19 > 0:49:22and it hasn't become really respectable.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25And Ronnie's has become a fashionable place,
0:49:25 > 0:49:27but, dare I say it, John and I don't come here
0:49:27 > 0:49:30because we think it's become totally respectable.
0:49:30 > 0:49:34But you do think that what they're doing here still means something
0:49:34 > 0:49:37to people of your age and for generations of jazz players?
0:49:37 > 0:49:39Oh, yeah. I really respect what they're doing
0:49:39 > 0:49:44because there's no other place like it, you know.
0:49:44 > 0:49:48I mean, there's a lot of clubs that are opening now just to make money
0:49:48 > 0:49:52out of what Ronnie Scott's is doing which is wrong.
0:49:52 > 0:49:57'But Ronnie Scott's, they want to help jazz music, you know.'
0:50:29 > 0:50:32'Current young musicians, like teenager Nigel Hitchcock,
0:50:32 > 0:50:35'have come up on the crest of the 1980s jazz revival,
0:50:35 > 0:50:37'the renewed interest in the music in this decade.
0:50:37 > 0:50:42'It's been reflected in clubs, record stores, even advertisements for perfume.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44'They brought a new audience to Ronnie Scott's,
0:50:44 > 0:50:48'but young fans have also come to hear the surviving jazz giants
0:50:48 > 0:50:51'of their parents' or even their grandparents' generation.'
0:51:04 > 0:51:07'Of course a lot of other London jazz clubs have been run for love.
0:51:07 > 0:51:11'And they've all helped to build a base for this remarkable music
0:51:11 > 0:51:14'in a culture sometimes aggressively ignorant of it.
0:51:14 > 0:51:17'But Ronnie Scott's enabled British fans and musicians
0:51:17 > 0:51:20'to hear the creators and originators of jazz at close range.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24'The place isn't always comfortable, the food wouldn't win prizes,
0:51:24 > 0:51:27'the staff don't kiss your feet and the backstage ambience
0:51:27 > 0:51:31'sometimes reminds you that jazz hasn't yet stopped being a man's world.
0:51:31 > 0:51:35'But the club's 30 years of survival has been an achievement against all the odds.'
0:51:47 > 0:51:51A place like Ronnie Scott's is the equivalent of so many
0:51:51 > 0:51:55different things in classical music. It's a recital hall,
0:51:55 > 0:51:58it's a concert hall, it's a place of learning
0:51:58 > 0:52:02and it takes...such an important place. And you think,
0:52:02 > 0:52:07"How can a club in Soho really be important to creativity
0:52:07 > 0:52:11"and the serious artistic aspirations of a country?"
0:52:11 > 0:52:13But I think that Ronnie Scott's is.
0:52:13 > 0:52:17I think, if you agree with the subsidy of the arts,
0:52:17 > 0:52:19that Ronnie Scott's should be subsidised
0:52:19 > 0:52:22to the extent that wouldn't spoil it and make it feel...
0:52:22 > 0:52:24as if it were on hallowed ground.
0:52:24 > 0:52:28But I do feel that the future of a place like Ronnie Scott's,
0:52:28 > 0:52:31and there is only one place like Ronnie Scott's,
0:52:31 > 0:52:33should be assured.
0:52:33 > 0:52:36You list this place in Who's Who as your club.
0:52:36 > 0:52:39What is it that's special about it to you?
0:52:39 > 0:52:42It's two things. I think A, it's the policy
0:52:42 > 0:52:46that for 30 years the policy has been
0:52:46 > 0:52:48to build outwards from the music.
0:52:48 > 0:52:51And in these days of sort of designer design...
0:52:51 > 0:52:55I mean God help us if one of those design consultants got in here.
0:52:55 > 0:53:00to advise them on how they're packaging their product and all that, all that stuff.
0:53:00 > 0:53:05It would be death. And basically I think I identify with what Ronnie...
0:53:05 > 0:53:08Ronnie books the kind of music he likes to listen to
0:53:08 > 0:53:12and by the same token I write the same kind of plays I would like to look at.
0:53:12 > 0:53:15And that's a very basic, almost primitive, peasant-like attitude.
0:53:15 > 0:53:20And that I adore. The fact that music comes first -
0:53:20 > 0:53:24it's the only place you could come where the proprietor advises you not to eat the food.
0:53:24 > 0:53:26I mean, I love all that stuff.
0:53:26 > 0:53:32Plus I love the, the kind of ambience, cos you do come for an ambience
0:53:32 > 0:53:33I mean, hence the hat.
0:53:33 > 0:53:38Well, one of our kids bought me the hat saying, "You need this hat to go to Ronnie's."
0:53:38 > 0:53:42And it reflects a kind of attitude from their generation to my generation
0:53:42 > 0:53:47on how they think I should look to come to a place like this, if you see what I mean.
0:53:47 > 0:53:50The notion of the...
0:53:50 > 0:53:57baggy eyes and a world weary, gently sardonic guy
0:53:57 > 0:54:00who would walk down the mean street and not be afraid
0:54:00 > 0:54:04because, you know, I've heard the blues at midnight.
0:54:04 > 0:54:06Which is absolute bollocks!
0:54:06 > 0:54:12But it's amiable, congenial and quite, quite harmless.
0:54:12 > 0:54:15I mean what I am is a little bald guy who writes plays.
0:54:15 > 0:54:21But I come here and I can enter into another, slightly dream world.
0:54:37 > 0:54:40'I mean the one thing that would destroy this place would be
0:54:40 > 0:54:43'if you hit a hole in the wall and the sunshine got in.
0:54:43 > 0:54:45'And this is not a place for sunshine.
0:54:45 > 0:54:48'This is strictly under the stone territory.'
0:55:02 > 0:55:05'Yeah, one says, "What's your day job?"
0:55:05 > 0:55:08'What do you do during the daytime?'
0:55:08 > 0:55:12Well I guess, personally...
0:55:15 > 0:55:18..never foresaw it going this time at all.
0:55:18 > 0:55:22- And, eh...- Like a prison sentence, really.
0:55:22 > 0:55:26- We're just going to go on. - 30 years in a jazz club.
0:55:27 > 0:55:31Yeah, when we first started we had no ambitions at all, really.
0:55:31 > 0:55:35I mean it was just a place for local guys to play.
0:55:36 > 0:55:41And here we are 30 years later.
0:55:42 > 0:55:46It's now become of world repute...
0:55:47 > 0:55:52..and I guess in a way we're very proud of it.
0:55:55 > 0:55:57Still employing lots of guys.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59Lots of good music coming out.
0:56:03 > 0:56:04Yeah, it is amazing, really.
0:56:04 > 0:56:09I mean it's much easier to name the people that haven't played,
0:56:09 > 0:56:13the musicians that haven't played here, rather than the ones that have.
0:56:14 > 0:56:17One we didn't get - Duke Ellington.
0:56:17 > 0:56:20No, didn't get Duke, didn't get John Coltrane.
0:56:20 > 0:56:22Coltrane, no we never.
0:56:22 > 0:56:24- And Charlie Parker.- Charlie Parker.
0:56:24 > 0:56:28But there have been some marvellous nights at the place.
0:56:28 > 0:56:29Some great nights.
0:56:29 > 0:56:32AUDIENCE APPLAUSE
0:56:32 > 0:56:34'I must make an apology
0:56:34 > 0:56:39'because the only time I sing this song is when I play England.
0:56:39 > 0:56:42'It never became a hit anywhere else.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44LAUGHTER
0:56:51 > 0:56:55# Every time
0:56:55 > 0:57:03# We say goodbye
0:57:03 > 0:57:08# I cry a little
0:57:08 > 0:57:12# Every time
0:57:12 > 0:57:17# We say goodbye
0:57:17 > 0:57:24# I wonder why a little
0:57:24 > 0:57:30# Why the Gods above me
0:57:30 > 0:57:34# Who may be
0:57:34 > 0:57:39# In the know
0:57:39 > 0:57:40# Think
0:57:40 > 0:57:45# So little of me
0:57:45 > 0:57:50# They allow you
0:57:50 > 0:57:55# To go
0:57:55 > 0:58:01# When you're near
0:58:01 > 0:58:06# There's such a air
0:58:06 > 0:58:11# Of Spring about it
0:58:11 > 0:58:18# I can hear a lark somewhere
0:58:18 > 0:58:23# Begin to sing
0:58:23 > 0:58:26# About it
0:58:26 > 0:58:32# There's no love song finer
0:58:32 > 0:58:36# But how strange the change
0:58:36 > 0:58:41# From major to minor
0:58:41 > 0:58:49# Every time we say
0:58:49 > 0:58:56# Goodbye
0:58:57 > 0:59:05# Good-bye. #
0:59:05 > 0:59:08APPLAUSE
0:59:08 > 0:59:11E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk