Pop and Easy Listening

Download Subtitles

Transcript

0:00:02 > 0:00:04What is it? What is it? What is it?

0:00:06 > 0:00:10Good evening and welcome once again to another section of Juke Box Jury.

0:00:12 > 0:00:15- ..To see you, to see you...- NICE!

0:00:18 > 0:00:21Our next group, I'm not allowed to introduce...

0:00:32 > 0:00:35MUSIC: "Pop Muzik" by M

0:00:35 > 0:00:41Light entertainment on television has always relied heavily on music.

0:00:41 > 0:00:45For me, music has always been the heart of light entertainment. I mean, that's how I started!

0:00:45 > 0:00:50But when pop burst onto the scene, it blew everything apart.

0:00:50 > 0:00:54Suddenly, kids didn't want to watch the same programmes as their parents.

0:00:54 > 0:00:57You just went, "This is exciting!

0:00:57 > 0:01:00"Wow, I've gotta do this for a living! Wow, this is amazing!"

0:01:00 > 0:01:02Good evening, ladies and gentlemen! Welcome to Top Of The Pops.

0:01:02 > 0:01:06People lived and breathed that show, you know.

0:01:06 > 0:01:10And you could just see that in people's eyes, they were singing along with everything.

0:01:10 > 0:01:16My trouble was that I loved them all, I loved all the groups, because it was such a heady atmosphere.

0:01:16 > 0:01:21Pan's People were there to cover for the mackintosh parade,

0:01:21 > 0:01:27the rather naughty gentlemen who liked to watch them, and we played to that.

0:01:27 > 0:01:29However entertaining,

0:01:29 > 0:01:34pop on television has always been unashamedly about selling a product.

0:01:34 > 0:01:39We weren't allowed to record, or write songs,

0:01:39 > 0:01:44- or choose the songs.- It makes money for the record label,

0:01:44 > 0:01:46and for the people who own the merchandise

0:01:46 > 0:01:49and if a million kids enjoy it, good luck to them.

0:01:49 > 0:01:51It is as simple as that.

0:01:51 > 0:01:56However, some pop shows refused to cater for a mass audience.

0:01:56 > 0:01:59That was the brief - make it live and give it balls.

0:01:59 > 0:02:03It's Friday, it's 5.30 and that means spotty Herberts coming through the door!

0:02:03 > 0:02:06In the '80s, a lot of the kind of trendy bands,

0:02:06 > 0:02:10or the credible NME-type bands, they didn't wanna be seen on the light entertainment shows.

0:02:10 > 0:02:12It wasn't good for their image.

0:02:12 > 0:02:17We really wanted it to be very much, "Your mother wouldn't like this!"

0:02:17 > 0:02:20Just to feel that vibe, you know, make you feel like,

0:02:20 > 0:02:22"I'm living now and this is a great time to be alive!"

0:02:22 > 0:02:27That sends a tingle through me. Then again, it could be that cystitis again, couldn't it?

0:02:27 > 0:02:32MUSIC: "Superstar" by Jamelia

0:02:32 > 0:02:34I'm sure the tune was in there somewhere(!)

0:02:34 > 0:02:39Now, after years in the wilderness, pop has made a triumphant return to Saturday night TV screens.

0:02:39 > 0:02:43It was like the lions and the Christians.

0:02:43 > 0:02:45You know, it's that or that.

0:02:45 > 0:02:46More that!

0:02:46 > 0:02:48It's about time that we put the razzle-dazzle back in.

0:02:48 > 0:02:53What Idol and X Factor have done in the UK is bring music back.

0:02:53 > 0:02:55Will! CHEERING

0:02:55 > 0:02:57You come up with a format as old as the hills -

0:02:57 > 0:03:01light entertainment - and you've got 21 million viewers.

0:03:01 > 0:03:07Tonight, we tell the story of pop music's journey back to the heart of light entertainment.

0:03:09 > 0:03:13The popular musical landscape in post-war Britain played it very safe,

0:03:13 > 0:03:18ignoring the rapidly changing and increasingly sophisticated tastes of the nation's youth.

0:03:18 > 0:03:22We came out of the war and I think that...

0:03:22 > 0:03:25suddenly there was a real problem in Britain.

0:03:25 > 0:03:28And I mean that for the first time, you had

0:03:28 > 0:03:35a lot of guys coming back from the forces that had been exposed to lots of other sorts of music.

0:03:35 > 0:03:38Girls that had gone out with GIs during the war wanted to bebop,

0:03:38 > 0:03:41and guys who had been in Germany and France

0:03:41 > 0:03:44and been exposed to jazz and came back.

0:03:44 > 0:03:50And so, suddenly, you had this...slightly uneasy situation,

0:03:50 > 0:03:55particularly at radio, where they weren't happy with Victor Silvester any more.

0:03:55 > 0:03:57You know, there was a little bit of...

0:03:57 > 0:04:03"Well, we want a bit of what was going on in the war now, we want it a bit more risque."

0:04:04 > 0:04:09They certainly weren't getting anything risque on the BBC's Light Programme,

0:04:09 > 0:04:13THE family entertainment radio show of the early 1950s.

0:04:13 > 0:04:19The kind of music played on the Light Programme in the '50s was...

0:04:19 > 0:04:23a kind of very light sort of almost like classical-type music.

0:04:23 > 0:04:27There would have been a little bit of jazz maybe, but a tiny bit.

0:04:27 > 0:04:30That only came much, much later in the '50s.

0:04:30 > 0:04:34But from 1949, and throughout the 1950s,

0:04:34 > 0:04:38one radio show did manage to unite old and young generations alike,

0:04:38 > 0:04:40with a lively sense of fun

0:04:40 > 0:04:44and a musical style that appealed to everyone.

0:04:44 > 0:04:48There was no television and the biggest highlight of your week

0:04:48 > 0:04:50was Sunday lunchtime.

0:04:50 > 0:04:54Go to church, take Holy Communion,

0:04:54 > 0:04:57come back and have your, your finnan haddie.

0:04:57 > 0:05:01But they had to have roast beef, Yorkshire pud and then,

0:05:01 > 0:05:04also, you would be listening to possibly Family Favourites.

0:05:04 > 0:05:10Followed by The Larkins, The Huggetts, the Navy Lark, Round the Horne...

0:05:10 > 0:05:15And then, the radio, "Wakey, wa...key!"

0:05:15 > 0:05:17"Wakey, wa...key!"

0:05:17 > 0:05:21BILLY COTTON: Wakey, wa...key!

0:05:21 > 0:05:23APPLAUSE

0:05:23 > 0:05:26They were good songs, it was knock-about fun

0:05:26 > 0:05:33and Billy Cotton himself, although, obviously at this point, I'd never seen him, you thought was your mate!

0:05:33 > 0:05:34All right. Hello, everybody!

0:05:34 > 0:05:38This is Billy Cotton introducing another Billy Cotton Band Show.

0:05:38 > 0:05:42His show was very listenable to during lunch.

0:05:42 > 0:05:45I mean, you didn't have to listen carefully,

0:05:45 > 0:05:48like the comedy shows or anything like that.

0:05:48 > 0:05:51It just kind of rolled over you, you know.

0:05:51 > 0:05:57And he, erm, unquestionably, he... he became a sort of institution.

0:05:57 > 0:06:00BILLY COTTON: 'Ere, what's that you've got there, Kate?

0:06:00 > 0:06:02Well, I had a bit of a throat today, Bill,

0:06:02 > 0:06:05so Breezie fixed me up with his throat spray.

0:06:05 > 0:06:07He says it'll keep the germs away.

0:06:07 > 0:06:10I should think it would too.

0:06:10 > 0:06:13He's attached it to a bottle of Scotch!

0:06:13 > 0:06:14You give me that 'ere! LAUGHTER

0:06:14 > 0:06:18People still stop me in the street, because I look like him,

0:06:18 > 0:06:23and say, "Whenever anybody speaks about your father,

0:06:23 > 0:06:26"I can smell roast beef and Yorkshire pudding."

0:06:26 > 0:06:33In 1956, Billy Cotton was given a whole new bandstand when his show made the leap from the wireless

0:06:33 > 0:06:36to the brand-new medium of television.

0:06:36 > 0:06:39# Who's got the finest food and quite the finest vino?

0:06:39 > 0:06:43# Poppa Piccolino! Poppa Piccolino!

0:06:43 > 0:06:46# Whose round and offers quite the finest cappuccino?

0:06:46 > 0:06:49# Poppa Piccolino from sunny Italy! #

0:06:49 > 0:06:51He entertained you all the time.

0:06:51 > 0:06:56There was jokes, there was, there was...great songs.

0:06:56 > 0:06:59He'd always do an instrumental number, where the band would jump about.

0:06:59 > 0:07:05And it was just half an hour or 40 minutes, whatever it was, of just amazing entertainment.

0:07:05 > 0:07:08BIG BAND MUSIC PLAYS

0:07:08 > 0:07:14When they put that show on television, it was just as exciting, and probably even more so.

0:07:14 > 0:07:17Because of Billy Cotton particularly,

0:07:17 > 0:07:21because he was such a big, happy man, with a big florid face,

0:07:21 > 0:07:23you know, bald head and glasses.

0:07:23 > 0:07:25Damen und herren!

0:07:25 > 0:07:26Ladies and gentlemen...

0:07:26 > 0:07:29Presenting the cabaret a la Cotton!

0:07:29 > 0:07:30MUSIC PLAYS

0:07:30 > 0:07:34# Here's a little German song everyone knows

0:07:34 > 0:07:36# I-diddle-diddle I-diddle-up-pop!

0:07:36 > 0:07:38# How's that? #

0:07:38 > 0:07:40BILLY LAUGHS

0:07:40 > 0:07:45We can only class him as the Churchill of light entertainment, cos that's what he was.

0:07:45 > 0:07:50As Churchill had got you through the war, Billy Cotton had introduced you to music.

0:07:50 > 0:07:52# Honey, get your bopping shoes!

0:07:52 > 0:07:55# Before the jukebox blows a fuse!

0:07:55 > 0:07:57# Everybody hopping!

0:07:57 > 0:08:01# Everybody bopping! Bopping at the high school hop... #

0:08:01 > 0:08:06Although Billy Cotton was popular with the whole family, television, like radio before it,

0:08:06 > 0:08:09had problems adapting to the arrival of rock-and-roll

0:08:09 > 0:08:13and to a new phenomenon - the teenager.

0:08:13 > 0:08:17# ..Come on, little baby Let's rock a little bit tonight... #

0:08:17 > 0:08:21They thought it was, er, leading all the young kids astray.

0:08:22 > 0:08:27Um... I remember, I was 13 years of age when I went to the cinema

0:08:27 > 0:08:31to see Bill Haley and Rock Around The Clock.

0:08:31 > 0:08:36Then, all of a sudden, these kids got up and danced in the aisles,

0:08:36 > 0:08:39you know, to Rock Around The Clock, and we thought, "Wow!"

0:08:39 > 0:08:41I mean, that was a big deal to do.

0:08:41 > 0:08:45"Oh, you know, we're really being naughty here, we are actually...

0:08:45 > 0:08:48"not sitting in our seats, but dancing in the aisles!"

0:08:48 > 0:08:53- MUSIC: "Rock Around The Clock" by Bill Haley and His Comets - When pop music first started,

0:08:53 > 0:08:59real pop music with The Screamers and the...and the rock-and-roll, or maybe just prior to rock-and-roll,

0:08:59 > 0:09:02I don't think the TV companies did really know how to handle it.

0:09:02 > 0:09:08They didn't. And I think the Six-Five Special really showed that.

0:09:08 > 0:09:12# The Six-Five Special steaming down the line

0:09:12 > 0:09:15# Six-Five Special right on time... #

0:09:15 > 0:09:19Six-Five Special, launched in 1957, was the BBC's

0:09:19 > 0:09:23first rather well-mannered attempt at a rock-and-roll show.

0:09:23 > 0:09:29Six-Five Special was way ahead of anything, it was a sort of much more varied style of music.

0:09:29 > 0:09:31You had every kind of music on.

0:09:31 > 0:09:33But basically, it was rock-and-roll,

0:09:33 > 0:09:37but there was also jazz of all descriptions,

0:09:37 > 0:09:38modern or otherwise.

0:09:38 > 0:09:40Big band jazz as well.

0:09:43 > 0:09:48It was the first programme to actually incorporate the audience into the show.

0:09:48 > 0:09:50Really made it quite exciting too, you know.

0:09:50 > 0:09:54People love to see other...see the public, if you like.

0:10:03 > 0:10:09In 1958, ITV poached Jack Good, the producer of Six-Five Special and hit back with Oh Boy!,

0:10:09 > 0:10:14which quickly established itself as the must-see pop show for the cooler crowd.

0:10:14 > 0:10:19OK, come and get it! It's Oh Bo-o-o-o-oy!

0:10:20 > 0:10:24I used to tremble, because the thing was going out live

0:10:24 > 0:10:26and there was such a pace to the show.

0:10:26 > 0:10:29It was like... It wasn't, you know...

0:10:29 > 0:10:35The Six-Five Special was more like, "Hello, ladies and gentlemen, here's the Six-Five Special."

0:10:35 > 0:10:38The other one, "Here's the Oh Boy show!"

0:10:38 > 0:10:41It slammed into you and it hit the audience for six.

0:10:41 > 0:10:44I think my greatest memory, as far as television is concerned,

0:10:44 > 0:10:47is Oh Boy! The Jack Good Oh Boy! show,

0:10:47 > 0:10:50which gave me my first ever really big break,

0:10:50 > 0:10:52and when I say big break, it was really big.

0:10:52 > 0:10:56When I look back at Oh Boy!, it's still one of the most

0:10:56 > 0:10:59innovative shows that's ever been, musically speaking.

0:10:59 > 0:11:02# ..Oh, when the saints...go...

0:11:02 > 0:11:07# Mar-ching...in... #

0:11:08 > 0:11:14Producer Jack Good was the eccentric genius behind both shows and became legendary.

0:11:14 > 0:11:19His mastery of the medium and ability to manipulate the acts set the standard for TV pop shows

0:11:19 > 0:11:21for decades to come.

0:11:21 > 0:11:27# Five, four, three, two, one... #

0:11:27 > 0:11:32Finally, one August night in 1963, ITV managed to capture

0:11:32 > 0:11:37some of pop music's energy and danger with the arrival of Ready Steady Go!

0:11:37 > 0:11:44This stripped the pop show to basics and enticed viewers with a sense of genuine excitement.

0:11:44 > 0:11:47I just remember, everybody did, everybody, the whole country,

0:11:47 > 0:11:50the whole teenage population, the whole...

0:11:50 > 0:11:56You know, it just blanketed the whole nation, and... with those immortal words...

0:11:56 > 0:11:58"The weekend starts here!"

0:11:58 > 0:12:04Just exploded on the screen like...

0:12:04 > 0:12:06an atomic bomb.

0:12:06 > 0:12:13And I remember being pinned back in my mum's sofa, watching...

0:12:13 > 0:12:16this programme, which just seemed to come out of nowhere.

0:12:18 > 0:12:23To have the opportunity to see the likes of Wilson Pickett and Otis Redding,

0:12:23 > 0:12:27names that you read about, singing and performing live

0:12:27 > 0:12:32in front of a studio audience was just the most revolutionary thing.

0:12:32 > 0:12:39And I remember, week after week, having the hairs on the back of my neck raised and going straight out

0:12:39 > 0:12:45the next day to Finlay's, which was the only place that we could buy these kind of records.

0:12:45 > 0:12:49And, you know, waiting for the shop to open to, you know, go in there

0:12:49 > 0:12:54and buy, you know, Sitting On The Dock Of The Bay or whatever it was.

0:12:54 > 0:13:00Dismayed by the popularity of Ready Steady Go, in 1964,

0:13:00 > 0:13:06the big guns at the BBC launched a counter-attack with a simple format based on the pop charts.

0:13:06 > 0:13:09It was to run for the next 42 years!

0:13:15 > 0:13:18Wednesday, January 1st, 1964, 6.30 in the evening live.

0:13:18 > 0:13:20First band, Rolling Stones.

0:13:20 > 0:13:23# Oh, I feel so strong I can't disguise

0:13:23 > 0:13:27- # Oh, my! - Let's spend the night together... #

0:13:27 > 0:13:30In the early days, it was a party every time.

0:13:30 > 0:13:37And I insisted that the audience was as important as the groups.

0:13:37 > 0:13:45And so, I would get a bundle of records and gave a bundle of records away for the best dancers,

0:13:45 > 0:13:48er...or the best outrageous clothes.

0:13:48 > 0:13:53'I declared them in. The audience felt part of it and all the teenagers felt part of it.'

0:13:53 > 0:13:58..Our good friends from Islington Green Secondary Modern School, it's all marvellous.

0:13:58 > 0:14:01She's shy, this one. You're not shy, say hello to your mum!

0:14:01 > 0:14:03- Hello, Mum! That's it, you say hello to your mum.- Hello, Mum!

0:14:03 > 0:14:08For everybody at home, ladies and gentlemen, how about the Alan Price Set?

0:14:08 > 0:14:14By 1966, Ready Steady Go had gone, and Top Of The Pops was really

0:14:14 > 0:14:18the only sort of pop show on television.

0:14:18 > 0:14:23Cos don't forget, there were still only the BBC, ITV and I think maybe BBC Two.

0:14:23 > 0:14:28So any discerning youngster who had any interest in music...would sit

0:14:28 > 0:14:30on a Thursday night and watch Top Of The Pops.

0:14:30 > 0:14:34# Bend me, shake me anyway you want me

0:14:34 > 0:14:38# As long as you love me it's all right... #

0:14:38 > 0:14:42# Some people live within the world and some people live without it!

0:14:42 > 0:14:44# Some people gotta whisper their love

0:14:44 > 0:14:46# And some, they gotta shout it... #

0:14:46 > 0:14:50# When I look up to the sky I see your eyes

0:14:50 > 0:14:53# A funny kind of yellow... #

0:14:53 > 0:14:56I didn't know whether it would last a day or 100 years.

0:14:56 > 0:14:58I hadn't the faintest idea.

0:14:58 > 0:15:01But I knew the logic of it was that if somebody bought a record,

0:15:01 > 0:15:04of course they'd want to see the person who's...

0:15:04 > 0:15:07They've got his record and there he is. "Oh, fantastic!"

0:15:07 > 0:15:10MUSIC: "Itchycoo Park" by Small Faces

0:15:10 > 0:15:14By the late 1960s, music was becoming divided.

0:15:14 > 0:15:19The showbiz world had abandoned the counter-culture and sex and drugs and rock-and-roll

0:15:19 > 0:15:22was the last thing that was going to be featured on TV shows.

0:15:22 > 0:15:26# ..It's all too beautiful It's all too beautiful... #

0:15:26 > 0:15:32What was acceptable on television was easy listening, a gentler non-threatening style of music,

0:15:32 > 0:15:36which provided TV producers with a much safer route for programming.

0:15:36 > 0:15:39Because easy listening is so difficult to define,

0:15:39 > 0:15:44it's very difficult to find a starting point for it.

0:15:44 > 0:15:48If you want, you can trace it back to the crooners,

0:15:48 > 0:15:51but that's not quite right. It was...

0:15:51 > 0:15:57It's sort of American, it's sort of a response to rock-and-roll,

0:15:57 > 0:16:00but it was something that was seen as, as clean-cut,

0:16:00 > 0:16:04something that was seen as, as quite bland, as quite inoffensive,

0:16:04 > 0:16:07which denigrates an awful lot of easy listening.

0:16:07 > 0:16:13# ..Yester-me. Yester-you Yesterday... #

0:16:15 > 0:16:19There's a point in the '70s, I know for a fact, when Engelbert Humperdinck

0:16:19 > 0:16:24had almost as many gold albums to his name as Elvis and Frank Sinatra.

0:16:24 > 0:16:26He was something like the third biggest.

0:16:26 > 0:16:30Andy Williams was right up there as well. These artists were massive, that's how big it is.

0:16:30 > 0:16:33Unfashionable maybe, but millions love it.

0:16:35 > 0:16:40TV bosses lost no time in exploiting the popularity of easy listening.

0:16:40 > 0:16:43And in 1969, gave Engelbert Humperdinck,

0:16:43 > 0:16:47an exotically named former engineer from Leicester, his own show.

0:16:47 > 0:16:52When I had my show, we would bring major stars on to the show

0:16:52 > 0:16:53and we'd do sketches,

0:16:53 > 0:16:55you know, comedy sketches with them.

0:16:55 > 0:16:57Cut!

0:16:57 > 0:17:03Vilma, Ricardo, it's finally happened! They've invented talking pictures.

0:17:03 > 0:17:05DRAMATIC MUSIC

0:17:05 > 0:17:10DEEP VOICE: At last, you shall hear my voice!

0:17:10 > 0:17:14HIGH-PITCHED VOICE: Yes, I'll be a big star!

0:17:14 > 0:17:20It was just a great experience in the early days.

0:17:20 > 0:17:24And I felt really - I'll be honest with you - I felt really...

0:17:24 > 0:17:30inadequate when I, when I was with them, because I felt I wasn't of the same calibre.

0:17:32 > 0:17:38By the start of the '70s, a queue of pop stars were following Engelbert's lead and trying to secure themselves

0:17:38 > 0:17:42the most coveted trophy in showbiz - their very own television show.

0:17:42 > 0:17:45When I was offered my own series,

0:17:45 > 0:17:49I thought, "Oh, I don't think I want to do this."

0:17:49 > 0:17:52You know, "I don't wanna be like Billy Cotton!"

0:17:52 > 0:17:57And I just thought, "I don't wanna be family entertainment, I wanna be rock-and-roll."

0:17:57 > 0:18:00# Step inside love!

0:18:01 > 0:18:05# And say, step inside love... #

0:18:05 > 0:18:09APPLAUSE

0:18:09 > 0:18:11Of course, I caved in and I did the show.

0:18:11 > 0:18:15And it went through the roof. You know, we'd have 20 million viewers.

0:18:15 > 0:18:19- # Oh, the joy of living!- Oh, yeah!

0:18:19 > 0:18:22- # Sweeter music they're giving - Oh, yeah!

0:18:22 > 0:18:26# When they're singing what you heard before

0:18:26 > 0:18:28# Come on! Come on! Come on!

0:18:28 > 0:18:31# Oh, the joy of living... #

0:18:31 > 0:18:33We had so much fun,

0:18:33 > 0:18:38because you weren't just singing, which is what people expected, but you were hosting the show.

0:18:38 > 0:18:44We were involved in comedy sketches, with great comedy actresses like Dandy Nicholls.

0:18:44 > 0:18:47And we had Aretha Franklin guesting on it.

0:18:47 > 0:18:48You know, it was just stunning.

0:18:48 > 0:18:52So since you've been here, have you managed to see any of our ancient sites?

0:18:52 > 0:18:56Why yes, I bumped into Hank Marvin just a moment ago!

0:18:56 > 0:18:58- LAUGHTER - She catches on fast!

0:18:58 > 0:19:01MUSIC: '70s theme to "Top Of The Pops"

0:19:01 > 0:19:04As the pop stars of the '60s became

0:19:04 > 0:19:10the family friendly TV hosts of the '70s, the ultimate pop entertainment show, Top Of The Pops,

0:19:10 > 0:19:14became increasingly theatrical and sparkled and shone like never before.

0:19:14 > 0:19:17- THEY SING OUT OF TUNE - That's the Top Of The Pops choir.

0:19:17 > 0:19:22There was supposed to be a siren, because the number one record is Sweet and "Blockbuster,"

0:19:22 > 0:19:25- and how about that, then? - SIREN BLARES

0:19:27 > 0:19:31MUSIC STARTS: "Blockbuster" by Sweet

0:19:42 > 0:19:46# Aha...

0:19:46 > 0:19:48# Aha... #

0:19:48 > 0:19:51In the '70s, when I was a child, watching Top Of The Pops,

0:19:51 > 0:19:55everyone looked like they were having a good time, it was like an enormous party.

0:19:55 > 0:19:58And the clothes were very, very flamboyant.

0:19:58 > 0:20:00Things like... I remember, you know,

0:20:00 > 0:20:04vividly watching Sweet doing Blockbuster.

0:20:04 > 0:20:09I mean, it was just, you know, like I said, a sort of light show and might even have had fireworks!

0:20:09 > 0:20:14I can't quite remember. And, you know, The Osmonds were doing Crazy Horses and stuff like that.

0:20:14 > 0:20:17- It was very upbeat. - # Crazy Horses!

0:20:20 > 0:20:21# Crazy Horses!

0:20:23 > 0:20:27# Never stop and they never die

0:20:27 > 0:20:32# They just keep on puffin' How they multiply... #

0:20:32 > 0:20:36'I remember, I was quite young, I loved Top Of The Pops.

0:20:36 > 0:20:40- 'And there's something about British fans, they have so much energy. - Oh, yeah.'

0:20:40 > 0:20:42They love music and, you know,

0:20:42 > 0:20:46we had performed many times on many different shows in America

0:20:46 > 0:20:47and other countries,

0:20:47 > 0:20:52but there was not the kind of energy that was there when you were at Top Of The Pops.

0:20:52 > 0:20:53- Yeah.- It was THE show.- Yeah.

0:20:56 > 0:21:01The early '70s saw a schism begin to appear in TV pop programmes.

0:21:01 > 0:21:05Whilst shows such as Top Of The Pops were happy to be seen as pure entertainment,

0:21:05 > 0:21:10the more earnest offerings, like BBC Two's Old Grey Whistle Test, took music seriously,

0:21:10 > 0:21:14and found the connection with showbiz to be utterly abhorrent.

0:21:17 > 0:21:19Hello again, welcome to Whistle Test.

0:21:19 > 0:21:25This week, from Cardiff, the last of our regional programmes, and music from some of the best Welsh bands

0:21:25 > 0:21:28during the next 30 minutes, with sessions from Budgie and Sassafras,

0:21:28 > 0:21:32Film of Man, along with a track from the new album from The Neutrons.

0:21:32 > 0:21:36The name of The Old Grey Whistle Test comes from an old Tin Pan Alley

0:21:36 > 0:21:39saying that a song was going to be a hit if it could be readily

0:21:39 > 0:21:44whistled by the "old greys", who were presumably the elderly people

0:21:44 > 0:21:49who swept up around the place, and the janitors and so forth - that that was the test of a hit.

0:21:49 > 0:21:53And so this name, for reasons I can't possibly explain any further,

0:21:53 > 0:21:57somehow became adopted, which is very strange, because if ever there was a programme

0:21:57 > 0:22:01that wasn't about tunes you could whistle, it was The Old Grey Whistle Test!

0:22:05 > 0:22:11The sort of war horse at that time was The Old Grey Whistle Test,

0:22:11 > 0:22:13which was more for, um,

0:22:13 > 0:22:17university graduates in a way, than it was for youth, really.

0:22:17 > 0:22:22It was sort of... Its pace was slow and it belonged to another era.

0:22:22 > 0:22:26If you're on BBC Two and you're on late at night, you've got a much more

0:22:26 > 0:22:30immediately dedicated, um, following probably.

0:22:30 > 0:22:35So you haven't got the pressure of something like Top Of The Pops, which has gotta deliver X million

0:22:35 > 0:22:38of viewers every week, and it's on prime time.

0:22:38 > 0:22:41So that was why the two went very well together.

0:22:41 > 0:22:45Top Of The Pops would reflect what's in the charts and what is popular,

0:22:45 > 0:22:49whereas we could be more, you know, weird, left-field and stuff like that.

0:22:49 > 0:22:52It's impossible to remember how dull the mid-'70s were.

0:22:52 > 0:22:56Anyone who claims that the mid-'70s were somehow interesting,

0:22:56 > 0:23:00in particular people who put together Old Grey Whistle Test compilations,

0:23:00 > 0:23:02should be shot, basically.

0:23:02 > 0:23:07Cos it was a dreary, dreary period of culture.

0:23:11 > 0:23:15The Old Grey Whistle Test was still featuring artists like The Eagles and Jackson Browne,

0:23:15 > 0:23:20when the Sex Pistols and The Jam and The Ruts and Penetration

0:23:20 > 0:23:22were packing out the clubs across the country!

0:23:22 > 0:23:26And I'd been a fan of The Whistle Test for many years, huge fan,

0:23:26 > 0:23:29cos they had, you know, David Bowie and Roxy Music.

0:23:29 > 0:23:33But for some reason, they really got stuck up their own backsides and,

0:23:33 > 0:23:37for whatever reason, couldn't embrace what was going on.

0:23:37 > 0:23:42# God save the Queen She ain't no human being!

0:23:45 > 0:23:50# And there's no future In England's dreaming! #

0:23:50 > 0:23:55Punk was one of those great musical revolutions that comes along

0:23:55 > 0:23:59every other generation that involves not only great music,

0:23:59 > 0:24:05but involves a culture, a look, a politics with a small P, a drug.

0:24:05 > 0:24:08In the case of punk, it was alcohol and speed, I seem to remember!

0:24:14 > 0:24:17Punk rock and the ethic of punk rock was not to do

0:24:17 > 0:24:20anything establishment, or if you did it, like The Pistols

0:24:20 > 0:24:22doing the Bill Grundy Show,

0:24:22 > 0:24:25you really messed it up and made sure it never went on air again.

0:24:25 > 0:24:31When punk came along, I had to use all my heavy-handedness to make sure

0:24:31 > 0:24:36that they behaved themselves in the studio, because they were, I mean,

0:24:36 > 0:24:41part of the punk act was to be naughty and things like that.

0:24:41 > 0:24:44So that is where I had to say, "Well, if you don't behave,

0:24:44 > 0:24:47"you'll be out and you won't be included in the show."

0:24:47 > 0:24:52# Scrub away! Scrub away! Scrub away!

0:24:52 > 0:24:53# The SR way! #

0:24:53 > 0:24:58It created such a schism that pop music and light entertainment sort of just fell apart from each other.

0:24:58 > 0:25:01There was your light entertainment, but there was something over here

0:25:01 > 0:25:04that was a bit more dangerous, it had a kinda meaning.

0:25:08 > 0:25:13By 1982, pop and light entertainment had gone separate ways.

0:25:13 > 0:25:17The days when families would gather round to watch Cilla on a Saturday night,

0:25:17 > 0:25:21or Dad would peer at Top Of The Pops over his newspaper, were long gone.

0:25:21 > 0:25:26A new generation demanded a music show aimed only at them,

0:25:26 > 0:25:31and the brand new Channel Four was more than happy to oblige.

0:25:31 > 0:25:34That was the brief - "Make it live and give it balls.

0:25:34 > 0:25:38"By the way, there's a cheque for two million quid!" Extraordinary!

0:25:41 > 0:25:46We deliberately tried to evoke a sense of "your parents wouldn't like it,"

0:25:46 > 0:25:48because a lot of music programmes

0:25:48 > 0:25:52and lot of youth programmes had got sucked into that early area,

0:25:52 > 0:25:57which kind of implies universal acceptance, it implies families sitting around watching it.

0:25:57 > 0:26:00And we wanted to go the opposite way with The Tube.

0:26:00 > 0:26:03So much so that we had this mythical family that we

0:26:03 > 0:26:07called The Scrotes, who were waxworks, you know.

0:26:07 > 0:26:11It was a family sitting round watching the show at the start.

0:26:11 > 0:26:17And the television explodes - we really wanted it to be very much, "Your mother wouldn't like this."

0:26:17 > 0:26:22# Relax! Don't do it! When you wanna go to it!

0:26:22 > 0:26:24# Relax! Don't do it!

0:26:24 > 0:26:26# When you wanna come!

0:26:26 > 0:26:30# Relax! Don't do it! When you wanna suck it to it!

0:26:30 > 0:26:34# Relax! Don't do it! When you wanna come! #

0:26:34 > 0:26:38It captured the new pop music, because this was massive music, you know. Altered Images,

0:26:38 > 0:26:42a band like that, will come up, they'd be on the alternative scene and next they'd be

0:26:42 > 0:26:46on Top Of The Pops and in the Top Ten, and The Tube would catch them at the right moment.

0:26:46 > 0:26:48# If we took a holiday

0:26:50 > 0:26:52# Took some time to celebrate

0:26:54 > 0:26:56# Just one day out of life

0:26:58 > 0:27:00# It would be...

0:27:00 > 0:27:02# It would be so nice! #

0:27:02 > 0:27:07It was the first time I saw presenters who were completely

0:27:07 > 0:27:11oblivious to the politics of behaving well on television!

0:27:11 > 0:27:16Our next group I'm not allowed to introduce because you might think the lead singer had given me one!

0:27:16 > 0:27:20Whereas, the lead singer, the lead singer, in fact, did give me one...

0:27:20 > 0:27:23- of these records, their brand-new record!- Now, Sting...

0:27:23 > 0:27:29- Quick, I've got my bit of paper! - Can I tell the audience where you've got your foot?- No I...

0:27:29 > 0:27:33- I have to have my foot propped up, otherwise...- But it's up my bum!

0:27:33 > 0:27:36..my dress gets funny. If you get a bit lippy, I'll give you a quick...

0:27:36 > 0:27:39poke! And now, we go to Jools Holland and his rhythm stick!

0:27:39 > 0:27:42- A lot of letters said, "We want more sex on the show," so...- THUD!

0:27:42 > 0:27:44- Ooh...- BLEEP!

0:27:44 > 0:27:48I don't think The Tube could have been what it was without being in Newcastle.

0:27:48 > 0:27:51It was away from London, the music business.

0:27:51 > 0:27:54Bands had to come up to Newcastle to do it, and so make that effort

0:27:54 > 0:27:57and you wanna be on it. That's a great thing to do.

0:27:57 > 0:27:59MUSIC: "Why Can't I Be You?" by The Cure

0:28:01 > 0:28:05# You're so gorgeous I'll do anything!

0:28:05 > 0:28:10# I'd kiss you from your feet to where your head begins!

0:28:10 > 0:28:14# You're so perfect So right as rain!

0:28:14 > 0:28:18# You make me, make me, make me, make me hungry again! #

0:28:18 > 0:28:24The edge it had, in coming live from Newcastle every week, meant that we weren't as subject to the hype

0:28:24 > 0:28:27of the record companies who were all based in London

0:28:27 > 0:28:30and we were particularly galvanised when someone -

0:28:30 > 0:28:32I believe it was a journalist in the Daily Mail

0:28:32 > 0:28:36who'd had something to do with Ready Steady Go back in the day -

0:28:36 > 0:28:43who said it was impossible to make a meaningful music programme outside of the M25!

0:28:43 > 0:28:45That was like a red rag to a bull to us.

0:28:45 > 0:28:47We said, "All right, we'll show ya!"

0:28:49 > 0:28:54After five years as the most talked about music show on TV,

0:28:54 > 0:28:57The Tube finally called it a day in 1987.

0:28:57 > 0:29:01So hello and welcome to the very, very, very, very, very last Tube.

0:29:01 > 0:29:05The last show was remarkable, because we had something like,

0:29:05 > 0:29:09if my memory serves me right, 60 bands, artists,

0:29:09 > 0:29:13who were wanting to, to perform on the last Tube.

0:29:13 > 0:29:17We just heard the sad and the bad news that it's all over for them,

0:29:17 > 0:29:20the best rock-and-roll show on TV, for The Tube.

0:29:20 > 0:29:25And the party went on for four days and four nights! Um...

0:29:25 > 0:29:29I mean, there were bodies floating in the River Tyne, it was messy!

0:29:29 > 0:29:32But by God, it was a glorious end!

0:29:35 > 0:29:39The Tube's demise marks the beginning of a new chapter in our story.

0:29:39 > 0:29:43Although launched in the states in 1981, the effects of MTV

0:29:43 > 0:29:50weren't felt in the UK until 1987, when satellite and cable television was finally brought to Britain.

0:29:50 > 0:29:54But the arrival of music TV fragmented the genre even further.

0:29:54 > 0:29:58I can remember when MTV started and being very excited and thinking "Wow!

0:29:58 > 0:30:03"You know, music television, music television on all day long!"

0:30:03 > 0:30:07Now MTV has more additives than ever before.

0:30:07 > 0:30:12MTV arriving changed everything because what MTV was in a way

0:30:12 > 0:30:16was, was the idea of Top Of The Pops writ large.

0:30:16 > 0:30:20I mean, it was, your favourite pop stars and pictures to go with it.

0:30:20 > 0:30:23Here's a selection of programmes that can...

0:30:23 > 0:30:26# Ooh, I gotta have faith!

0:30:26 > 0:30:29# Because I gotta have faith, faith, faith!

0:30:29 > 0:30:31# I gotta have faith, faith, faith! #

0:30:31 > 0:30:34No-one thought it would have any effect

0:30:34 > 0:30:38because everyone thought, "Well, its gonna get so few viewing figures."

0:30:38 > 0:30:42And then, you realised, "Well, actually, MTV's gonna continue

0:30:42 > 0:30:45"to show your videos long after your career has gone!"

0:30:45 > 0:30:49And it started to have a massive effect

0:30:49 > 0:30:53because it was 24-hour immediate music, which...

0:30:53 > 0:30:55It meant that the other music programmes

0:30:55 > 0:30:58had to kind of up the ante, they had to compete with that.

0:31:01 > 0:31:04The terrestrial broadcasters responded to the arrival of MTV

0:31:04 > 0:31:11with relentlessly fast-cut shows, such as Wired, Dance Energy and Behind The Beat.

0:31:11 > 0:31:15In the 80s, a lot of the kind of, the trendy bands or the credible

0:31:15 > 0:31:19NME-type bands, they didn't wanna be on the light entertainment shows.

0:31:19 > 0:31:21It wasn't good for their image.

0:31:21 > 0:31:25They didn't wanna appeal to mums and dads, even though they were selling records to them.

0:31:25 > 0:31:28So they would do shows like The Tube or The Word.

0:31:28 > 0:31:32The Word swaggered onto our screens in 1990.

0:31:32 > 0:31:37A high-octane remix of the old variety format, it featured celebrity interviews,

0:31:37 > 0:31:41bizarre reports and the coolest bands in town.

0:31:41 > 0:31:42BOOMING VOICE: The Word!

0:31:42 > 0:31:46Our references for The Word were, believe it or not musically,

0:31:46 > 0:31:50early editions of Top Of The Pops, right? The good and the bad.

0:31:50 > 0:31:53James Brown, Sex Pistols on the same show

0:31:53 > 0:31:56as Joe Dolce, Shut Up A Your Face! Let's go for it.

0:31:56 > 0:31:58The highs and the lows, right?

0:31:58 > 0:32:00You hit the heights, hit the depths,

0:32:00 > 0:32:03all within the space of the same five minutes!

0:32:03 > 0:32:04It's fascinating telly.

0:32:04 > 0:32:07MUSIC: "Smells Like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana

0:32:07 > 0:32:11Everybody I knew, and that's a lot of people, watched The Word

0:32:11 > 0:32:17every week, because the bands that we've been talking about would be on The Word that week.

0:32:17 > 0:32:20And to give her her credit, I asked many years later

0:32:20 > 0:32:22who was doing that, and I think it was Jo Wylie.

0:32:22 > 0:32:27I think Jo Wylie was the young researcher who had her finger on the pulse.

0:32:27 > 0:32:30# With the lights out It's less dangerous

0:32:30 > 0:32:34# Here we are now! Entertain us!

0:32:34 > 0:32:38# I feel stupid and contagious!

0:32:38 > 0:32:42# Here we are now! Entertain us... #

0:32:42 > 0:32:46We wanted you to be able to talk about it with your mates, right, on the Monday.

0:32:46 > 0:32:48For whatever reason, right?

0:32:48 > 0:32:53Maybe something happened, you know, great band that was on, just to feel that vibe.

0:32:53 > 0:32:58You know, make you feel like, "I'm living now and this is a great time to be alive!"

0:33:00 > 0:33:04Whilst The Word delighted in its music shock tactics,

0:33:04 > 0:33:08former Tube presenter Jools Holland launched Later in 1992

0:33:08 > 0:33:13and up-dated The Old Grey Whistle Test's idea of a platform for more serious music.

0:33:13 > 0:33:17Having credibility became cool for once.

0:33:17 > 0:33:21Later has done well out of the fact that there is a new consensus that's sprung up

0:33:21 > 0:33:27in the last 10-15 years, so you get young bands like to be associated

0:33:27 > 0:33:30with old bands and old bands like to be associated with young bands.

0:33:30 > 0:33:32And so, the key thing about Later

0:33:32 > 0:33:35is that bit at the beginning, when they're all looking at each other.

0:33:53 > 0:33:56You'll see people on the same show

0:33:56 > 0:34:01who are very, very disparate, very different,

0:34:01 > 0:34:05and very possibly you wouldn't have gone out of our way to catch that particular artist.

0:34:05 > 0:34:09What the interesting thing is, apart from all the crap in the charts.

0:34:09 > 0:34:14Um...artists like Misty and The Corals there, I think,

0:34:14 > 0:34:18is some indication there's still a pulse in, er, British music.

0:34:18 > 0:34:21There is still a pulse. You're a big influence. Have been.

0:34:21 > 0:34:25- I like British music, yeah.- You were, you're a big influence on it.

0:34:25 > 0:34:28- Oh, am I?- Yes, yes, you are! I'm afraid you are!- All right!

0:34:28 > 0:34:32- We've brought you here to tell you that.- Oh, is that it?- Yes.

0:34:32 > 0:34:37Jools Holland's got that magical, magical TV ability, that people

0:34:37 > 0:34:41absolutely adore him, but they can't work out what it is that he does!

0:34:41 > 0:34:45He's the kind of gold-standard rock musician

0:34:45 > 0:34:48cos he's a bit of a regular guy, yeah?

0:34:48 > 0:34:50You could imagine him living next door

0:34:50 > 0:34:54and he can play the piano and he'd play Happy Birthday at your mum's birthday.

0:35:06 > 0:35:10It has a slightly older audience, certainly, because some of the acts

0:35:10 > 0:35:13that are on are more for an older taste.

0:35:13 > 0:35:15But equally, we have lots of, you know...

0:35:15 > 0:35:19Robbie Williams is regularly on Later when he has a record out.

0:35:19 > 0:35:21He has mass mainstream appeal.

0:35:21 > 0:35:27You know, I think it's probably the most grown-up TV programme that I do.

0:35:27 > 0:35:28You know, um...

0:35:28 > 0:35:30More grown-up than Parky!

0:35:30 > 0:35:32You know, um...

0:35:32 > 0:35:36I dunno, I enjoy being here, cos everything's live and the musicians

0:35:36 > 0:35:41are, are very often very respectful to each other while they're here.

0:35:41 > 0:35:43# So when I'm lying in my bed

0:35:44 > 0:35:46# Thoughts running through my head

0:35:48 > 0:35:50# And I feel that love is dead

0:35:51 > 0:35:55# I'm loving angels instead... #

0:35:55 > 0:35:59It's moments like that, that, I think, is what Later does

0:35:59 > 0:36:01and nobody, you know, other shows don't do that.

0:36:01 > 0:36:07They're created more in a television environment, people record their items, they leave, you know?

0:36:07 > 0:36:11Later's much more about everybody in the room at the same time

0:36:11 > 0:36:14and they're the sort of moments that I think make Later special.

0:36:14 > 0:36:18# I'm loving angels instead. #

0:36:20 > 0:36:22AUDIENCE CHEERS

0:36:22 > 0:36:25Throughout the '90s, pop music on terrestrial TV

0:36:25 > 0:36:29remained defiantly aloof from light entertainment.

0:36:29 > 0:36:32The White Room borrowed the pared down approach of Later

0:36:32 > 0:36:34and was the brainchild of the production team

0:36:34 > 0:36:38behind The Tube, complete with indy bands and authentic northern presenter.

0:36:38 > 0:36:42- It's The White Room! - CHEERING

0:36:42 > 0:36:45Although The White Room was, to some extent,

0:36:45 > 0:36:47aimed at the Later audience,

0:36:47 > 0:36:49in that it was a serious music programme

0:36:49 > 0:36:54for a more discerning, if you like, more grown-up audience,

0:36:54 > 0:36:58the musical diet of the show and the feel of the show was aimed at the Top Of The Pops audience.

0:36:58 > 0:37:02Often magic moments would happen and there were lots of them.

0:37:02 > 0:37:09We had Lou Reed playing Walk On The Wild Side with Dave Stewart

0:37:09 > 0:37:11and it was great fun.

0:37:11 > 0:37:16# You take a walk on the wi-i-ild side

0:37:16 > 0:37:19# You take a walk on the wild side And the girls, they go...

0:37:19 > 0:37:21# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do!

0:37:21 > 0:37:23# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do!

0:37:23 > 0:37:26# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do!

0:37:26 > 0:37:28# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do!

0:37:28 > 0:37:30# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do!

0:37:30 > 0:37:33# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do!

0:37:33 > 0:37:35# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do!

0:37:35 > 0:37:37# Doo-do-do! Doo-do-do-do! #

0:37:37 > 0:37:39I've always thought it's very important

0:37:39 > 0:37:43while making music television programmes not to be too safe,

0:37:43 > 0:37:46and not to kowtow too much to kind of censorship

0:37:46 > 0:37:50and family values and doing what's expected.

0:37:50 > 0:37:55# Well, here comes Johnny Yen again!

0:37:55 > 0:37:58# He got the liquor and drugs

0:37:58 > 0:38:01# He got the flesh machine! #

0:38:01 > 0:38:06There's always the risk with Iggy that he's gonna get his todger out!

0:38:06 > 0:38:10Because he enjoys doing it!

0:38:10 > 0:38:13And, um...so you're always on,

0:38:13 > 0:38:18slightly on the, um...on the guard when, when you book

0:38:18 > 0:38:21said Mr Pop!

0:38:21 > 0:38:24Um, and we had had that discussion with him

0:38:24 > 0:38:27and, of course, he didn't get his todger out at all.

0:38:27 > 0:38:31So technically speaking, he didn't break any rules,

0:38:31 > 0:38:33what he did was put on a pair of kecks,

0:38:33 > 0:38:37which meant that you could see everything he had to offer.

0:38:37 > 0:38:39# I got a lust for life

0:38:42 > 0:38:44# Lust for life! #

0:38:44 > 0:38:49A lot of people, you know, running off the stage and stage diving.

0:38:49 > 0:38:52That, to me, is what rock and roll's about -

0:38:52 > 0:38:54youthful exuberance.

0:38:54 > 0:38:56BIG BAND MUSIC PLAYS

0:38:58 > 0:39:02But not all music programmes are youthfully exuberant.

0:39:02 > 0:39:07The most successful music show on television has never allowed credibility to stand in its way!

0:39:07 > 0:39:11In 1997, the lightest of light entertainment shows

0:39:11 > 0:39:13transfixed the nation once more

0:39:13 > 0:39:18when Britain won the Eurovision Song Contest for the fourth time in its 40 year history.

0:39:20 > 0:39:23# Love shine a light In every corner of my dream... #

0:39:24 > 0:39:30The Eurovision... is spectacular, wonderful...

0:39:32 > 0:39:36..completely unique light entertainment.

0:39:36 > 0:39:42# Save your...kisses for me Save all your kisses for me

0:39:43 > 0:39:46# Bye-bye, baby! Bye-bye! #

0:39:46 > 0:39:50Eurovision has kept going because it comes out of Europe -

0:39:50 > 0:39:54it doesn't have the same nervous anxiety about whether we're in or out.

0:39:54 > 0:39:56Are we fashionable, are we not?

0:39:56 > 0:39:57HE SINGS IN GERMAN

0:40:04 > 0:40:06# Ow! Come on! #

0:40:11 > 0:40:13It's an opportunity for the outrageous,

0:40:13 > 0:40:17for the, for the outmoded, for the just plain daft.

0:40:17 > 0:40:23But at the same time, it's a vehicle by which we can just

0:40:23 > 0:40:26explore our neighbours and have a bit of a laugh into the process.

0:40:28 > 0:40:33However, back in 1968, it was all taken much more seriously.

0:40:33 > 0:40:35At that time, it may have grown now,

0:40:35 > 0:40:38there were 400 million viewers for Eurovision.

0:40:38 > 0:40:40And I thought, "Well,

0:40:40 > 0:40:42"400 million?"

0:40:42 > 0:40:48So one in...just one million, one viewer every whatever it is and I've got a million sales!

0:40:48 > 0:40:51Um... That's what happened!

0:40:51 > 0:40:56# Congratulations and celebrations

0:40:56 > 0:41:00# When I tell everyone that you're in love with me... #

0:41:00 > 0:41:05I refused to sit with the other artists when the voting was going on

0:41:05 > 0:41:08because I just think that's too personal.

0:41:08 > 0:41:13So I locked myself in the loo with my guitar and, when it was over, I heard, "Tap, tap, tap."

0:41:13 > 0:41:15And I didn't even, I didn't even open the door,

0:41:15 > 0:41:19but Peter just said, "I'm sorry, mate, you lost by one point."

0:41:19 > 0:41:21I thought, "I'm so glad I wasn't there!"

0:41:21 > 0:41:23Although Eurovision is a song contest,

0:41:23 > 0:41:25I think it's a performance contest.

0:41:25 > 0:41:28I think, if you perform it well and you look good,

0:41:28 > 0:41:31I think that's just as important as the song and proof

0:41:31 > 0:41:34of that is Making Your Mind Up because we only won by four points

0:41:34 > 0:41:38and I think if we hadn't ripped our skirts off, we wouldn't have won!

0:41:38 > 0:41:40# Got to look as if you don't care less

0:41:40 > 0:41:43# But if you wanna see some more!

0:41:43 > 0:41:46# Bending the rules of the game

0:41:46 > 0:41:49# Will let you find the one you're looking for!

0:41:49 > 0:41:51# And then, you can show that you think you know

0:41:51 > 0:41:55# You're making your mind up! #

0:41:55 > 0:42:01The first Eurovision I did...was Terry Wogan's first, I think.

0:42:01 > 0:42:04It was certainly one of the first and I was quite offended

0:42:04 > 0:42:08with the fact that he used to take the mickey out of acts.

0:42:08 > 0:42:12I thought, "This is important, they're representing their country!"

0:42:15 > 0:42:18- TERRY WOGAN:- 'It's a great old rocker this.

0:42:18 > 0:42:23'Some of the worst cases of broken veins I've ever seen!'

0:42:27 > 0:42:33But I've always had an ironical or slightly cynical view of it

0:42:33 > 0:42:35because I know it for what it is.

0:42:35 > 0:42:40And I think, over the years, I've been able to bring the British public with me,

0:42:40 > 0:42:45in our mutual disrespect of what should be an institution!

0:42:45 > 0:42:51# Let our love shine a light in every corner of our hearts!

0:42:52 > 0:42:57# Shine a light in every corner of our hearts. #

0:42:57 > 0:43:00AUDIENCE CHEERS

0:43:00 > 0:43:07- TERRY:- Big hand for the little lady! Great performance.

0:43:07 > 0:43:11MUSIC: "Picture Of You" by Boyzone

0:43:18 > 0:43:22Manufactured bands have existed since the earliest days of Eurovision,

0:43:22 > 0:43:25and during the '90s saw a revival in popularity

0:43:25 > 0:43:31as Take That, Boyzone and the Spice Girls fought a battle for chart supremacy.

0:43:31 > 0:43:35It was proof that, after a long period of cold war,

0:43:35 > 0:43:39pop music and entertainment were starting to reunite.

0:43:39 > 0:43:42When you look at the '90s and what a lot of people consider

0:43:42 > 0:43:46manufactured pop, the whole reason was to create entertainers.

0:43:46 > 0:43:49# Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want

0:43:49 > 0:43:51# So tell me what you want, what you really, really want! #

0:43:51 > 0:43:54Think of the Spice Girls, everything was very calculated

0:43:54 > 0:43:59and very much made to entertain you, not just the music, but as a spectacle.

0:43:59 > 0:44:06And I think the '90s, with lots of manufactured pop, was very much the era where record companies,

0:44:06 > 0:44:08managers of acts thought, "Hang on a minute.

0:44:08 > 0:44:11"We don't just wanna sing songs, we wanna entertain",

0:44:11 > 0:44:14and that's the key to why so many of them were so successful.

0:44:14 > 0:44:16It's always been manufactured pop,

0:44:16 > 0:44:19we just didn't recognise it as manufactured.

0:44:19 > 0:44:22I mean, Take That were obviously a copy of New Kids On The Block,

0:44:22 > 0:44:25then we'd Boyzone who copied Take That.

0:44:25 > 0:44:30We'd Spice Girls, we'd Bananarama. West Life are probably the biggest band at the moment.

0:44:30 > 0:44:35But they're just another version of Take That or New Kids or The Beatles.

0:44:35 > 0:44:38# Oh, Mandy!

0:44:38 > 0:44:43# Well, you came and you gave without taking

0:44:43 > 0:44:45# But I sent you away

0:44:45 > 0:44:47# Oh, Mandy... #

0:44:47 > 0:44:52When I put Take That together, I was thinking about a band

0:44:52 > 0:44:53that was great for TV.

0:44:53 > 0:44:57Part of the audition was putting the members in front of a camera

0:44:57 > 0:45:00and seeing if they could sell themselves and if they could interview well on TV.

0:45:00 > 0:45:03# All I do each night is pray

0:45:03 > 0:45:05# All I do each night is pray!

0:45:05 > 0:45:09# Hoping that I'll be a part of you again some day

0:45:09 > 0:45:14- # Down on my knees! - All I do each night is think,- Yeah!

0:45:14 > 0:45:19# Of all the times I closed the door to keep my love within... #

0:45:19 > 0:45:24When we did Take That, we weren't telling anyone they were manufactured.

0:45:24 > 0:45:28It makes me a bit uncomfortable to go on about manufactured pop groups

0:45:28 > 0:45:33cos, you know, even Jon Bon Jovi and all them lot, they all have producers and they all

0:45:33 > 0:45:36have marketing people in the record companies,

0:45:36 > 0:45:40and they all audition for band members when people drop out.

0:45:40 > 0:45:42The manufactured thing worries me slightly.

0:45:42 > 0:45:45But...when we did Take That, it was all, you know,

0:45:45 > 0:45:50Robbie and Mark knew each other and Jason and Howard were break dancers

0:45:50 > 0:45:53and all that bullshit and everyone believed it. It was great!

0:45:53 > 0:45:55But Take That would not have happened

0:45:55 > 0:45:58if they'd said, "Oh, this bloke's put us together

0:45:58 > 0:46:01"and we've auditioned," we wouldn't have got past first base.

0:46:01 > 0:46:04It's money, you know?

0:46:04 > 0:46:08That's what it is, you know. We're not doing it to make a statement.

0:46:08 > 0:46:13I said this the other day, it is an extension of the merchandise.

0:46:13 > 0:46:17Comic, cereal packet, video, record.

0:46:17 > 0:46:21That's all it is. It makes money for the record label,

0:46:21 > 0:46:24it makes money for the people who own the merchandise

0:46:24 > 0:46:27and if a million kids enjoy it, good luck to them.

0:46:27 > 0:46:29It is as simple as that.

0:46:29 > 0:46:31MUSIC: "Nine To Five" by Sheena Easton

0:46:31 > 0:46:35Although insiders have always known about manufactured pop,

0:46:35 > 0:46:40the first TV evidence of the music industry's star-making machinery came in 1980,

0:46:40 > 0:46:42on a BBC show called the Big Time,

0:46:42 > 0:46:47when it discovered and promoted an unknown singer called Sheena Easton.

0:46:47 > 0:46:49The idea proved to be 20 years ahead of its time.

0:46:49 > 0:46:55The Big Time did expose what went on and how stars were created.

0:46:55 > 0:46:59And they realised that Sheena Easton was entering into a machine,

0:46:59 > 0:47:02and I think they rather loved her for that.

0:47:02 > 0:47:06# So many nights

0:47:06 > 0:47:10# I sit by my window

0:47:10 > 0:47:17# Waiting for someone To sing me his song... #

0:47:17 > 0:47:19I was so happy for Sheena Easton.

0:47:19 > 0:47:22You'll remember, I was a punk rocker during this!

0:47:22 > 0:47:27But to see the very first programme you've ever seen about someone being

0:47:27 > 0:47:32discovered and developed and given a chance was really very exciting.

0:47:32 > 0:47:35RADIO JINGLE: Radio One Round Table.

0:47:35 > 0:47:40Now here's a lady I know nothing about, except she is physically very attractive,

0:47:40 > 0:47:46which puts her head and shoulders above a number of others I can think of! Sheena Easton is her name.

0:47:46 > 0:47:49Lend an ear to her new EMI single called Modern Girl

0:47:49 > 0:47:51and tell me what you think of it.

0:47:51 > 0:47:53I remember watching Sheena Easton,

0:47:53 > 0:47:58who became probably one of the most successful reality stars,

0:47:58 > 0:48:02much bigger than Kelly Clarkson, Will Young. I mean, she was global.

0:48:02 > 0:48:05# You've got the look! You've got the hook!

0:48:05 > 0:48:09# Sure enough do be cooking in my book!

0:48:09 > 0:48:10# Your face is jammin'

0:48:10 > 0:48:13# Your body's heck-a-slammin'

0:48:13 > 0:48:17# If love is good Let's get to rammin'

0:48:17 > 0:48:19# You've got the look!

0:48:19 > 0:48:21# You've got the look! #

0:48:21 > 0:48:25Fast forward to the present day

0:48:25 > 0:48:30and we see a whole slew of star-making programmes.

0:48:30 > 0:48:34The difference is that there's a competition and the public is voting.

0:48:34 > 0:48:37But you can see the similarities.

0:48:42 > 0:48:47SINGERS HARMONISE THE OPENING TO: "Monday, Monday" by The Mamas and The Papas

0:48:47 > 0:48:49Two decades later, in the year 2000, whilst

0:48:49 > 0:48:56Sheena Easton was busy belting out her back catalogue in Vegas, a new music show appeared on ITV.

0:48:56 > 0:49:00Pop Stars was based on a similar idea to the Big Time.

0:49:00 > 0:49:03It marked the return of pop music as family viewing

0:49:03 > 0:49:06and the start of a new era in light entertainment.

0:49:06 > 0:49:09This was watching a talent show with warts and all.

0:49:09 > 0:49:11It was like talent shows have always been -

0:49:11 > 0:49:14people in corridors, saying, "You're crap, you're great."

0:49:14 > 0:49:17Um, it was ever thus, but you just never had a camera

0:49:17 > 0:49:21on that. Pop Stars dramatically pulled the camera back.

0:49:21 > 0:49:26That's how the Spice Girls were cast, it's how Take That were cast, it's how The Monkees were cast.

0:49:26 > 0:49:32It's how pop groups have always been cast. So Pop Stars was the precursor to all of that.

0:49:32 > 0:49:34Unfortunately, it was completely out of tune!

0:49:34 > 0:49:37It's really strange, the perception of these programmes,

0:49:37 > 0:49:40a lot of people think that you've got in through the back door

0:49:40 > 0:49:45and, because it was deemed a television programme, that maybe it doesn't quite count.

0:49:45 > 0:49:49OUT OF TUNE: # ..and I've got you

0:49:49 > 0:49:54# So reach for the stars... # Oh, God!

0:49:54 > 0:49:58For the first time, it was nice to bring kids off the street

0:49:58 > 0:50:00who didn't necessarily have an agent,

0:50:00 > 0:50:07who didn't have a manager and could walk into an audition and, you know, the judges could hear their talent.

0:50:07 > 0:50:10ALL OUT OF TUNE: # And through it all...

0:50:10 > 0:50:12# She offers me protection

0:50:12 > 0:50:15# A lotta love and affection

0:50:15 > 0:50:17# Whether I'm right or wrong... #

0:50:17 > 0:50:21This could be... like Japanese water torture!

0:50:21 > 0:50:25We get together all of the people that sing Angels out of tune

0:50:25 > 0:50:28and for somebody we hate to listen to them!

0:50:28 > 0:50:30I originally approached Simon Fuller

0:50:30 > 0:50:32to say, "Will you be the manager of the band?"

0:50:32 > 0:50:36cos he was hugely successful with The Spice Girls at that time.

0:50:36 > 0:50:39I approached a guy called Simon Cowell...

0:50:39 > 0:50:43I was offered the show to be a judge, said yes, and then

0:50:43 > 0:50:45I changed my mind, because I didn't like the notion

0:50:45 > 0:50:48of showing the public how we manufacture a group.

0:50:48 > 0:50:52It was rather like a magician saying, "This is how we saw somebody in half."

0:50:52 > 0:50:55And I wasn't even sure whether the show would be a success.

0:50:55 > 0:51:00I was stuck and I think it was Claudia Rosencrantz that said, "Why don't you do it?"

0:51:00 > 0:51:06# And if somehow you knew that your love would be untrue!

0:51:06 > 0:51:08# Would you lie to me?

0:51:08 > 0:51:12# And I'll be baby-y-y! #

0:51:12 > 0:51:17Thank you very much, OK. Nice performance. Good performance.

0:51:17 > 0:51:20And I'm sure the tune was in there somewhere!

0:51:20 > 0:51:25That whole thing with Pop Stars and Nasty Nigel was driven by

0:51:25 > 0:51:27the tabloids, rather more than what I was doing

0:51:27 > 0:51:32and I wasn't particularly nasty. Some people were saying, "I've got two children!"

0:51:32 > 0:51:35"Oh, that's all right, love. Don't worry.

0:51:35 > 0:51:38"You're still a woman and you can still be in the band."

0:51:38 > 0:51:41There was nothing really nasty about that.

0:51:41 > 0:51:43# Hit me, baby, one more time! #

0:51:48 > 0:51:52The reality is they are auditioning and that's the only reality to it.

0:51:52 > 0:51:55Otherwise, everyone is performing on that programme.

0:51:55 > 0:51:57MUSIC: "Pure And Simple" by Hear'Say

0:51:59 > 0:52:03Although Hear'Say, the band created by Pop Stars,

0:52:03 > 0:52:06only lasted 18 months, the enormous success of the show

0:52:06 > 0:52:09led to the creation of Pop Idol in 2001,

0:52:09 > 0:52:13which took the format to the next level.

0:52:13 > 0:52:15You got the feeling light entertainment departments

0:52:15 > 0:52:19thought that pop music was a fad and that it would eventually go away.

0:52:19 > 0:52:24It hadn't and it became the centre of everybody's lives by the end of the '90s. It was the world.

0:52:24 > 0:52:27# Come on, baby, light my fire

0:52:27 > 0:52:31# Try to set the night on fire!

0:52:31 > 0:52:35# Come on, baby, light my...

0:52:35 > 0:52:40# Fire. #

0:52:40 > 0:52:44I remember, you know, we sat at Pop Idol many a times and just knew

0:52:44 > 0:52:48that what we were was the Billy Cotton Band Show for this century.

0:52:48 > 0:52:51We were doing no different, you know?

0:52:51 > 0:52:54Maybe I was Billy Cotton and Simon Cowell was Breezy,

0:52:54 > 0:52:56but you know, we got all the acts going on,

0:52:56 > 0:53:01but me and him were the double act, you know, with Foxy and Nicki playing the good-looking guys

0:53:01 > 0:53:06and the younger guys for the younger generation. It was Punch and Judy.

0:53:06 > 0:53:09- I honestly didn't think it was good enough.- OK.

0:53:09 > 0:53:11Please, don't take that. Please, say something back!

0:53:11 > 0:53:15It is your opinion, I don't agree, I don't think it was average.

0:53:15 > 0:53:19I don't think you could ever call that average, but it's your opinion and I respect that.

0:53:19 > 0:53:24You couldn't resist the show because it had the old-fashioned principles

0:53:24 > 0:53:26of a great variety show, but to an extent,

0:53:26 > 0:53:28elements of a freak show as well.

0:53:28 > 0:53:31# Everything I can

0:53:33 > 0:53:37# I'll be your dreams with these two hands...

0:53:37 > 0:53:39# With handsome... #

0:53:42 > 0:53:44When we first started the auditions,

0:53:44 > 0:53:47I remember saying to Pete Waterman, after being quite nice

0:53:47 > 0:53:50to seven or eight people, "This is just ridiculous!

0:53:50 > 0:53:55"I mean, you can't keep patronising these people who are blatantly awful!"

0:53:55 > 0:53:57CHEERING

0:53:57 > 0:53:59What Pop Idol did, which was so brilliant,

0:53:59 > 0:54:02was it was the first show that gave power to the viewers.

0:54:02 > 0:54:05So the judges took them to a certain point

0:54:05 > 0:54:09and then this enormous responsibility and power

0:54:09 > 0:54:11was suddenly in the hands of the viewers.

0:54:11 > 0:54:13The winner...

0:54:13 > 0:54:18of Pop Idol 2002...

0:54:18 > 0:54:19is...

0:54:20 > 0:54:23- ..Will! - CHEERING

0:54:24 > 0:54:27But we got lucky, didn't we, on Pop Idol.

0:54:27 > 0:54:33You know, sometimes you get lucky in life and Gareth Gates, Will Young made us very lucky.

0:54:33 > 0:54:37North versus South... working-class versus middle-class.

0:54:37 > 0:54:40It was just one of those, you know, magic times.

0:54:40 > 0:54:4336,000 applied.

0:54:43 > 0:54:4610,000 auditioned.

0:54:46 > 0:54:49But only 12 can enter The Fame Academy.

0:54:49 > 0:54:54The massive ratings of Pop Idol caused renewal of interest in pop on TV

0:54:54 > 0:54:57and led to the BBC retaliating with Fame Academy -

0:54:57 > 0:55:00a cross between a talent show and reality television.

0:55:00 > 0:55:04ITV, in turn, hit back in 2004 with X Factor,

0:55:04 > 0:55:08using a format which was by then tried and trusted.

0:55:08 > 0:55:12I think we definitely got to a situation that every show now that

0:55:12 > 0:55:14appears, every reality show, has got a set of judges

0:55:14 > 0:55:19and one of them will be nice, someone might be a bit passionate,

0:55:19 > 0:55:23someone's gonna say something pleasant, and someone's gonna be the bastard.

0:55:23 > 0:55:27OUT OF TUNE: # Let me...entertain you! #

0:55:27 > 0:55:29No.

0:55:29 > 0:55:32Girls, individually, you sound horrendous.

0:55:32 > 0:55:35Together, you sound even worse.

0:55:35 > 0:55:37I don't think anyone will ever pay to hear you sing.

0:55:37 > 0:55:44I tried, where I could, to make it as close as possible to a real-life audition.

0:55:44 > 0:55:47The only difference being is, in a real-life audition, somebody walks

0:55:47 > 0:55:51in the door and we often tell them just to leave immediately! So at least on this show they get to sing.

0:55:51 > 0:55:55- What are you actually looking for, then?- The absolute opposite of you!

0:55:55 > 0:56:00I think shows like X Factor and Pop Idol have replaced the big shows

0:56:00 > 0:56:05like Cilla Black, Cliff Richard, Des O'Connor, you know, Morecambe and Wise, The Two Ronnies.

0:56:05 > 0:56:08These are the new entertainment, these are the new light entertainment shows.

0:56:08 > 0:56:11# California... #

0:56:11 > 0:56:14Although pop is back in the driving seat of Saturday night television,

0:56:14 > 0:56:20Top Of The Pops has finally bowed out after 42 years.

0:56:20 > 0:56:23It's a shame it got to this stage, because it's just...

0:56:23 > 0:56:28Sadly now, you only remember it for having, you know, a million viewers rather than having, you know,

0:56:28 > 0:56:3315 or 20 million viewers when it was in its heyday, but again, I think everything has its time.

0:56:33 > 0:56:35# Does anyone know the way?

0:56:35 > 0:56:40- # Do you hear someone say? - W-W-We just haven't got... ARGH! #

0:56:40 > 0:56:42# Does anyone know the way?

0:56:42 > 0:56:45# There's gotta to be a way To Blockbuster! #

0:56:47 > 0:56:51When Top Of The Pops started, there wasn't a lot of output for music.

0:56:51 > 0:56:55And then, obviously, through MTV and this explosion of channels where

0:56:55 > 0:57:00music was everywhere, it started to become almost like wallpaper.

0:57:00 > 0:57:05After decades in the wilderness, the power of pop music has once again been recognised,

0:57:05 > 0:57:10and it is back where it belongs - at the heart of light entertainment.

0:57:10 > 0:57:16God forbid if I were to pass away tomorrow, I mean, on my headstone, if I were to have one, I would

0:57:16 > 0:57:20rather have, "Here lies Cilla Black, singer,"

0:57:20 > 0:57:22rather than, "Cilla Black, TV Entertainer."

0:57:22 > 0:57:25Music is entertainment, it's a form of entertainment.

0:57:25 > 0:57:28You sit at home, whether you're listening

0:57:28 > 0:57:32to classical music, pop music, hip-hop, you're being entertained.

0:57:32 > 0:57:38Popular music is about, you know, sex, and it is about breaking

0:57:38 > 0:57:43the rules and it is about lifting the hairs on the back of your neck and giving you goose bumps.

0:57:43 > 0:57:49And if you can't do that with music on TV, then I think you've failed.

0:57:54 > 0:57:59Next time on The Story Of Light Entertainment...

0:57:59 > 0:58:03we examine the dark art of pretending to be other people.

0:58:03 > 0:58:07- My name is Greg Dyke!- "I'm the Director General of the BBC!"

0:58:07 > 0:58:11We'll see how impressionists have fascinated us for decades.

0:58:11 > 0:58:13I'm not so sure about that.

0:58:13 > 0:58:17We'll find out why they're the poor cousins in the comedy world.

0:58:17 > 0:58:21I think it's fraught with pain and anxiety and neurosis.

0:58:21 > 0:58:24And we'll see how a multitude of mimics

0:58:24 > 0:58:28has survived the vagaries of fashion and flourished in the new century.

0:58:28 > 0:58:33Rory Bremner is better than any of us. He's quite the best there's ever been!

0:58:33 > 0:58:37Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd