0:00:02 > 0:00:04Television is most certainly here to stay.
0:00:04 > 0:00:11This programme contains some strong language
0:00:33 > 0:00:36When Americans wonder what it means to be an American,
0:00:36 > 0:00:40one of the places they look for answer is primetime television.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43Primetime hits are watched by audiences measured
0:00:43 > 0:00:45in the tens of millions, and so they've had to reflect
0:00:45 > 0:00:48the big social changes that have transformed America
0:00:48 > 0:00:50in the television age.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53Sometimes, they've even led those changes.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56One of the most dramatic shifts has been in the depiction of women,
0:00:56 > 0:00:59from the home-making, apple-pie baking domestic queen
0:00:59 > 0:01:02of the 1950s, to the independent woman of today,
0:01:02 > 0:01:06dealing with the push and pull of having it all.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09In the history of the United States of Television,
0:01:09 > 0:01:11women's declaration of independence
0:01:11 > 0:01:13has been one of the big stories.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20She's very in control of herself and she knows what she wants.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22It makes her pretty fierce.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24She has to be who she is.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26She's not an ambiguous person.
0:01:26 > 0:01:30There's never really a struggle to find out what she wants.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34And she's making money and providing food and a roof.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37I don't know if, you know, we could define independence
0:01:37 > 0:01:40ourselves. I think it's different for every person.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43An independent woman is someone who has control of her life.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46It's not about marriage, children, work or what you're going to do
0:01:46 > 0:01:49or wear, it's about being able to decide for yourself.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00'There is nothing wrong with your television set.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02'Do not attempt to adjust the picture.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04'We are controlling transmission.'
0:02:04 > 0:02:06I think television kind of trained
0:02:06 > 0:02:10and brainwashed a whole generation of women.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14Society has always put a lot of pressure on women to present
0:02:14 > 0:02:18a perfect image of themselves, physically.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21The perfect wife. The perfect mom.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23You always keep a nice house and I'm proud to bring my friends over.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26Well, thank you! I'm always glad to have them.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29For me, I grew up knowing that I would never be
0:02:29 > 0:02:33a successful wife and mother the way that it had been portrayed on TV.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36- DAD:- Well, what's this?
0:02:36 > 0:02:39Apple juice, dear. For that tired, ache all over feeling.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43I think those images from television of these model women
0:02:43 > 0:02:47still make us feel bad somewhere deep inside,
0:02:47 > 0:02:50that somehow we're not living up to this ideal of womanhood
0:02:50 > 0:02:53and motherhood and wife...ness.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56Those women are so great. Donna Reed is so beautiful and Mrs Cleaver
0:02:56 > 0:02:59is such a great mom, and I will be a failure.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05That image of perfection was false.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08I don't think anything's deliberate or conscious.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12It was a less complicated time,
0:03:12 > 0:03:15and...there was more...
0:03:15 > 0:03:17It was more idealised and aspirational
0:03:17 > 0:03:19when they portrayed the family.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22The kids are bathed and in their pyjamas, the father walks home,
0:03:22 > 0:03:25puts his briefcase down, gets a martini,
0:03:25 > 0:03:28everybody speaks to each other very respectfully,
0:03:28 > 0:03:32and the roles are defined, and everybody goes to bed.
0:03:32 > 0:03:33- WOMAN:- Good night.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35'Often in separate beds.'
0:03:35 > 0:03:36- MAN:- Goodnight, dear.
0:03:36 > 0:03:37ALARM CLOCK
0:03:37 > 0:03:39On television in my childhood,
0:03:39 > 0:03:42it was still there where it showed the mother
0:03:42 > 0:03:45covering up everything to make the father
0:03:45 > 0:03:49feel like he was the man, or what ever that means.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52I want you to know that your father's a wonderful father,
0:03:52 > 0:03:55and I couldn't have asked for a better husband.
0:03:55 > 0:03:59- But he's still a male. - Well, naturally!
0:03:59 > 0:04:02And a male likes to feel that he thinks up all the ideas.
0:04:02 > 0:04:08So the tactful wife, by various, er, justifiably devious methods,
0:04:08 > 0:04:11plants the idea in his mind and then lets him go ahead
0:04:11 > 0:04:13and think it up, and everyone's happy.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15The only way that a woman at that time
0:04:15 > 0:04:19can assert that kind of independent power is often through
0:04:19 > 0:04:22manipulation and lying and scheming.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24BAND PLAYS
0:04:24 > 0:04:26And then, along came Lucy.
0:04:28 > 0:04:33Lucy is just, you know, she's got that irrepressible way.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35She won't give up.
0:04:35 > 0:04:38I think that that's the great thing about Lucy as an independent woman -
0:04:38 > 0:04:42that she refuses to take no as an answer for anything.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44Honey, you know how I feel about this.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47- I don't want my wife in show business.- Why not?
0:04:47 > 0:04:49Oh, Lucy, we've been over this 10,000 times.
0:04:49 > 0:04:52I want wife who is just a wife.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54MIDTEMPO MAMBO SONG
0:05:03 > 0:05:06I Love Lucy showed the nuts and bolts
0:05:06 > 0:05:09and sort of the underside of marriage and the frustrations
0:05:09 > 0:05:12and the eternal struggle between men and women.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14What she was, and at that time,
0:05:14 > 0:05:16she would just be fearless with what she did.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19Cos she was so broad but subtle at the same time.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22Nobody's quite done the same thing.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25Nobody's funnier than Lucille Ball.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29Probably the greatest television comic.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:05:31 > 0:05:34She showed all the longing for fame and money,
0:05:34 > 0:05:37being in Ricky's band and the ego stuff,
0:05:37 > 0:05:39and then she always got knocked down.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43Now look, Lucy, we're not going to go all over this again.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45You cannot be in the show.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Give me one good reason.
0:05:48 > 0:05:49You have no talent.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:05:51 > 0:05:53Give me another good reason.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56There's a simplicity to Lucy.
0:05:56 > 0:06:00She was a star-struck young woman who wanted some
0:06:00 > 0:06:02excitement in her life.
0:06:04 > 0:06:05Lucy was a housewife,
0:06:05 > 0:06:08trying to constantly break out and do different things.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10- Lucy?- Yes?- No!
0:06:10 > 0:06:12Oh, Ricky.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15And if she did anything crazy, Ricky would go crazy.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17Lucy, if you're going to act like a child
0:06:17 > 0:06:19- I'm going to have to treat you like one.- Meaning what?
0:06:19 > 0:06:21Meaning, I'll put you over my knees and...
0:06:21 > 0:06:23You wouldn't dare!
0:06:23 > 0:06:26- Oh, I wouldn't?- No, you wouldn't!
0:06:26 > 0:06:30It did freak me out that Ricky would go, "Lucy..."
0:06:30 > 0:06:33- Ahh!- Are you going to do what I say?- Yes!
0:06:33 > 0:06:36"I don't want to get spanked!" It's just so freaky.
0:06:36 > 0:06:41She keeps slamming herself up against that wall.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44What ever the limitations of being a woman at that time are,
0:06:44 > 0:06:47or being Ricky's wife, or whatever they might be,
0:06:47 > 0:06:51and yet she develops a dream and cannot help herself.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53Must chase it. Has to.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57She was, in a way, leading a charge.
0:06:59 > 0:07:00Behind the scenes, Lucy's charge
0:07:00 > 0:07:03had already brought significant victories.
0:07:03 > 0:07:07In 1962, she took over the running of Desilu studios
0:07:07 > 0:07:11from her now ex-husband, Desi Arnaz.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14She became one of the most powerful executives in American television,
0:07:14 > 0:07:17green-lighting primetime classics
0:07:17 > 0:07:19from Mission Impossible to Star Trek.
0:07:19 > 0:07:23To the public, she would always be the ditzy red-head,
0:07:23 > 0:07:26but industry insiders knew a different Lucy.
0:07:28 > 0:07:33The truth about Lucy is incredibly subversive. She was an empire.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37Desilu. Desi doesn't have anything without Lucy.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42She was a force to be reckoned with.
0:07:42 > 0:07:43Totally subversive.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46She was our landlady, you know. She owned the studio
0:07:46 > 0:07:49and I said, "There's dust on the rafters, Lucy.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52"You've got to get somebody up there and clean this place up."
0:07:52 > 0:07:56She was the first comedienne who was beautiful and sexy
0:07:56 > 0:07:58and funny at the same time.
0:07:59 > 0:08:04She didn't lose her femininity by being broad.
0:08:04 > 0:08:06And it worked for her so great.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08And then along came Mary.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17Finding Mary was the tough thing.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20I saw about 60 girls. Really! 60 girls.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26I had had one failure after another.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28I would go in and read for something and think it went well,
0:08:28 > 0:08:30and then I wouldn't get the part.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32I said, "Sheldon, I don't know what I'm looking for."
0:08:32 > 0:08:34He said, "You will when you see it."
0:08:34 > 0:08:37And I got this phone call from my agent saying, "Carl Reiner",
0:08:37 > 0:08:39and my heart started pounding.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44And she walked in my office one day and read two lines.
0:08:44 > 0:08:48And he got this look in his eyes like I have never seen before.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51And I grabbed the top of her head, and I said, "Come with me!"
0:08:51 > 0:08:55She got scared, she thought I was going to accost her!
0:08:59 > 0:09:00I walked her into Sheldon's office
0:09:00 > 0:09:04and I said, "You were right. "We found her. We found our lady."
0:09:18 > 0:09:20- I'm just a housewife!- Come on!
0:09:22 > 0:09:23Atta girl!
0:09:23 > 0:09:27We wanted her because she had a style about her,
0:09:27 > 0:09:31and she was a very modern lady in those days. She wore capris.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34Someone from the network called up and said,
0:09:34 > 0:09:36"They cup under a little bit too much.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38"You're going to have to let them out."
0:09:38 > 0:09:40They said I was shocking people.
0:09:44 > 0:09:45AUDIENCE APPLAUSE
0:09:45 > 0:09:52I had been an actress who did very small parts on dramatic shows.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56I had no comedy background.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58SHE SCREAMS
0:09:58 > 0:10:03All I could think of when I first got to work with that raft,
0:10:03 > 0:10:06was, "What would Lucy do?"
0:10:06 > 0:10:08Lucy was the queen!
0:10:08 > 0:10:13Laura's thrust in the show was to be the independent woman,
0:10:13 > 0:10:15which was starting to happen at that time.
0:10:15 > 0:10:17He said right from the beginning,
0:10:17 > 0:10:20"You are not going to be the kind of wife who says,
0:10:20 > 0:10:24'Here's the cream and sugar, darling, and how was your day?'"
0:10:24 > 0:10:29Not only did Mary play an incredibly forceful character,
0:10:29 > 0:10:32but she had a true presence and identity, and she just wasn't
0:10:32 > 0:10:35the beautiful wife, which she could've so easily been.
0:10:35 > 0:10:37- Hi, Honey!- Wow!
0:10:37 > 0:10:40There were some of the shows where she wanted to go out and dance
0:10:40 > 0:10:43and be a dancer again, and at the end she decides,
0:10:43 > 0:10:45"Oh, I want to just be a mother."
0:10:45 > 0:10:49And I wondered if I could take the strain of the daily classes
0:10:49 > 0:10:52and the rehearsals and the exercise. And now I know.
0:10:52 > 0:10:53I can't.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:10:56 > 0:10:58- You can't?- No, Rob!
0:10:58 > 0:11:01There isn't a bone in my body that isn't screaming,
0:11:01 > 0:11:04"For heaven's sake, lie down in a hot tub!"
0:11:04 > 0:11:06AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:11:06 > 0:11:09When we look at that now, I feel remiss about that.
0:11:09 > 0:11:15That was not exactly what I would say is a forward-looking thing.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17She could've done both.
0:11:17 > 0:11:21There was still that hangover of, "Oh, well, the husband works,
0:11:21 > 0:11:26"and the wife stays at home, and that's the way it is."
0:11:26 > 0:11:28My wife worked at home,
0:11:28 > 0:11:32but there were more aspects to a woman than just being a housewife,
0:11:32 > 0:11:34which is good enough.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37If you can bring up kids and send non-toxic human beings
0:11:37 > 0:11:40into the world, that's about the best thing you can do, actually.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42But a lot of people don't feel fulfilled,
0:11:42 > 0:11:45and if they don't feel fulfilled they should be able to
0:11:45 > 0:11:47fulfil themselves however they want.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54The Dick Van Dyke Show ended in 1966.
0:11:54 > 0:11:58That same year, Betty Friedan and other leading feminists
0:11:58 > 0:12:01set up the National Organisation for Women.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05It is a terrible thing we're doing to American women
0:12:05 > 0:12:06in the name of femininity.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10We are preventing them from reaching their full growth as human beings.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14Women have caught on to the game. We don't know it completely yet,
0:12:14 > 0:12:17we haven't really discovered the total anatomy of our oppression
0:12:17 > 0:12:19and of what they've been doing to us,
0:12:19 > 0:12:20but we do know that it's happening.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23Well, women, of course, are delightful persons,
0:12:23 > 0:12:25and I hear a strange and strident voice
0:12:25 > 0:12:29that I think is attempting, really, to stop some of this progress
0:12:29 > 0:12:31being made on behalf of women.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35That's the bra-less bubblehead, I call that person, you know.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45It took primetime a while to catch up,
0:12:45 > 0:12:49but in 1970 Mary Tyler Moore returned to the TV screens
0:12:49 > 0:12:53with a character who embodied the aspirations and the anxieties
0:12:53 > 0:12:56of a new generation of liberated women.
0:12:56 > 0:13:00Mary Richards was no Gloria Steinem, but when this single,
0:13:00 > 0:13:04independent career woman tossed her woolly hat into the air
0:13:04 > 0:13:07in the opening credits of The Mary Tyler Moore Show,
0:13:07 > 0:13:12mainstream America was put on notice that things were changing fast.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16- Divorced?- No. - Never married?- No.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18- Why?- Why?
0:13:18 > 0:13:19Do you type?
0:13:19 > 0:13:22Mr Grant, there's no simple answer to that question.
0:13:22 > 0:13:28Yes, there is. How about, "No, I can't type," or "Yes, I can."
0:13:28 > 0:13:30There's no simple answer to why a person isn't married.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33- How many different reasons can there be?- 65.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48We were very fortunate in our timing, you know.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51The concept we came up with, the show we came up with,
0:13:51 > 0:13:54the idea of a career woman, started just as, you know,
0:13:54 > 0:13:56the woman's revolution was kicking in.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58And it gave us lots of stories.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01It seems that you've been asking a lot of very personal questions
0:14:01 > 0:14:04that don't have a thing to do with my qualifications for this job.
0:14:07 > 0:14:09You know what?
0:14:10 > 0:14:11You've got spunk.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:14:13 > 0:14:15- Well...- I HATE spunk!
0:14:15 > 0:14:17AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:14:19 > 0:14:22The original idea that Jim and Allan had
0:14:22 > 0:14:27was that I was a recently divorced woman,
0:14:27 > 0:14:30and CBS said, "No."
0:14:31 > 0:14:34"You can't have her divorced,
0:14:34 > 0:14:38"because everyone will think she's divorced from Dick Van Dyke."
0:14:38 > 0:14:40They said, "There are three things you can't do a show about,
0:14:40 > 0:14:44"Jews, people with moustaches and divorced people."
0:14:44 > 0:14:48Jim and Allan wanted to write a show about a woman who was working
0:14:48 > 0:14:54in a newsroom, who was newly on her own, independent but terrified.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58It was not about women's lib.
0:14:58 > 0:14:59LOU: Mary, get in here!
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Part of her character was that it was very tough for her
0:15:02 > 0:15:05to stand up for herself. That she was a pushover.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07That she seemed a pushover.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09Mary, come in here!
0:15:09 > 0:15:10Come into my office.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12Mary, come into my office.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15We did 300 scenes that started with, "Mary come into my office."
0:15:15 > 0:15:18The batting average was amazing because of that quality
0:15:18 > 0:15:21she had when she was called on the carpet.
0:15:21 > 0:15:22SHE SIGHS
0:15:22 > 0:15:23Did I ring?
0:15:31 > 0:15:33I think Mary Tyler Moore influences everybody.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36She was the first woman who we really saw in the workplace,
0:15:36 > 0:15:40I feel like, who was single and wasn't interested
0:15:40 > 0:15:43in not being single was and was pursuing her career.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45It was very, very exciting, actually.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47We had a daring joke at the time,
0:15:47 > 0:15:49where her mother says to her father...
0:15:49 > 0:15:51Don't forget to take your pill.
0:15:51 > 0:15:52Mary and her father answer...
0:15:52 > 0:15:54- BOTH:- I won't!
0:15:54 > 0:15:55AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:15:58 > 0:16:02That she was on birth control was a daring joke at the time.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04It's all a big joke to you, isn't it?
0:16:04 > 0:16:07Well, a woman doesn't have to have a baby if she doesn't want to.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12Well, I say a man's entitled to have a baby if he wants to.
0:16:12 > 0:16:13SHE LAUGHS
0:16:13 > 0:16:17Well! Mr Grant, on behalf of women everywhere, let me say
0:16:17 > 0:16:20we'd sure like to be there when he has it.
0:16:20 > 0:16:21AUDIENCE APPLAUSE
0:16:21 > 0:16:24So many people wanted us to step on a soapbox with that show.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27It was important that we burned all the soapboxes.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29We were there to do a good comedy show.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32But our heroine existed at a very interested time for women
0:16:32 > 0:16:33and that got into the show.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41I was pretty much born married.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43I married when I was 18.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47Three months after the end of that divorce,
0:16:47 > 0:16:51I met my second husband, Grant Tinker.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54And when we'd separated,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57going to New York, for me, was terrifying,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59cos I'd never been on my own.
0:17:01 > 0:17:05The only real sure thing I had inside me that said,
0:17:05 > 0:17:08"You know what you're doing, you can do this,"
0:17:08 > 0:17:11was Mary Richards, really.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17I remember thinking, "What would Mary do?"
0:17:19 > 0:17:21Women would say to me,
0:17:21 > 0:17:25"Ah, I watch that show, and I so identify with you."
0:17:25 > 0:17:30To this day, I get people that I meet, strangers, saying,
0:17:30 > 0:17:34"You know, I became a writer because of you.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36"I became a producer because of you."
0:17:36 > 0:17:41And when they say "you" they mean that whole wonderful production.
0:17:41 > 0:17:45It's a very lightweight mantle. I'm grateful for it.
0:17:50 > 0:17:54The women's movement really helped shine a light
0:17:54 > 0:17:56on those old stereotypes.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06Women were reading Betty Friedan's Feminine Mystique and they were
0:18:06 > 0:18:09grappling with what she called "the problem with no name".
0:18:09 > 0:18:13You were sent to college and prepared for something great,
0:18:13 > 0:18:18then weren't allowed to pursue it and had to worry about yellow
0:18:18 > 0:18:20waxy build up on your floors.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24And what came out of that, ultimately,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27was an opportunity to create a character
0:18:27 > 0:18:30who flew in the face of all that.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33You want to know something? I've been in over my head
0:18:33 > 0:18:36since the day I invited Joel Shaw to my junior prom.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38He was 35 at the time.
0:18:38 > 0:18:40AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:18:40 > 0:18:42You can't always play by the rules, Miles.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44Taking risks is how I got here.
0:18:46 > 0:18:53To play Murphy was just so much fun. It was so liberating,
0:18:53 > 0:18:59and it sort of freed my inner pest.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02Getting along with other people is a reflection of getting along with yourself.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06I've got your reflection right here, pal!
0:19:21 > 0:19:24Murphy Brown, investigative journalist,
0:19:24 > 0:19:26news anchor, single mother
0:19:26 > 0:19:29was a Conservative's worst nightmare,
0:19:29 > 0:19:33leaving a trail of broken taboos in her wake.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37But what gave her an edge were her inner demons.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40I remember reading the pilot of Murphy Brown and I thought that
0:19:40 > 0:19:43was the coolest thing in the world, that she just got out of rehab.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46And during the pitch, that kind of stopped everybody in their tracks.
0:19:46 > 0:19:48I didn't really open with that.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51Frank, I haven't had a drink in over a month.
0:19:51 > 0:19:52I haven't had a cigarette...
0:19:52 > 0:19:58And the reaction was, "That's not really a very attractive trait
0:19:58 > 0:20:01"in a woman, somebody who's had problems with alcohol."
0:20:01 > 0:20:03She got to be Lou Grant. That was a big deal,
0:20:03 > 0:20:06and I think executives in television, the buttons got pushed
0:20:06 > 0:20:09because those were traditionally male traits.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13You know, Sam Malone on Cheers
0:20:13 > 0:20:17had come into the bar as a recovering alcoholic.
0:20:17 > 0:20:21Why can't the same thing apply to a woman?
0:20:21 > 0:20:23What CBS said was that they would like,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26instead of her being a 40-year-old
0:20:26 > 0:20:29who was just coming out of Betty Ford,
0:20:29 > 0:20:33couldn't she be a 30-year-old who had just come back from a spa?
0:20:33 > 0:20:37Diane said, "No. That's not the point."
0:20:37 > 0:20:40It was so exciting to see woman character be starchy.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44I'm beginning to find your attitude extremely offensive.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46Perch and rotate.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50People - they want interesting, they don't want likeable.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56Murphy became that person we all wish we were.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58You know, all the things you should have said
0:20:58 > 0:21:01or you wish you could have said - well, she said them.
0:21:01 > 0:21:05She never felt that she had to please anyone or be polite,
0:21:05 > 0:21:10and that was such a break for women to see that.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15We do spend a lot of time trying to be liked and wanting to be liked.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17At least at that time, you know,
0:21:17 > 0:21:22it was unusual to see somebody who really didn't care about that.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26She's a housewife from Denver, Colorado, who started appearing
0:21:26 > 0:21:28in a local nightclub called The Comedy Works in Denver
0:21:28 > 0:21:30about three or four years ago.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33She moved to Hollywood, where she's been working at The Comedy Store,
0:21:33 > 0:21:36and this is her very first appearance on national television.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38Would you welcome, Roseanne Barr.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41APPLAUSE
0:21:41 > 0:21:43So, I'm fat. I thought I'd point that out.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45LAUGHTER
0:21:45 > 0:21:47The same autumn season that brought Murphy Brown to CBS
0:21:47 > 0:21:53saw another female character make her debut on rival network, ABC.
0:21:53 > 0:21:56She couldn't have been more different in terms of class,
0:21:56 > 0:21:59appearance and lifestyle, but she turned out to be
0:21:59 > 0:22:03an even greater challenge to the conventions of primetime woman.
0:22:08 > 0:22:10I was raised in Salt Lake City, Utah,
0:22:10 > 0:22:13and I was a Jewish girl and from a poor family.
0:22:13 > 0:22:17So, everywhere I went, I was the opposite of everybody.
0:22:18 > 0:22:24I didn't have a waist and I was fat and I just talked like I talk.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27And I was funny, and that was really frowned on -
0:22:27 > 0:22:31to be a smart, funny girl in Salt Lake City, Utah.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36I was always constantly corrected by everyone who came in my path.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39They would say, "You should do this."
0:22:39 > 0:22:40"Well, don't do that."
0:22:40 > 0:22:43"This is not the way a young lady..." Blah, blah.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48But I realised really early that I would never have anybody's approval.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52Maybe that helped give me a layer of protection against the constant
0:22:52 > 0:22:57onslaught of correction and humiliation that fat girls
0:22:57 > 0:23:03get in schools, where everybody's thin and blonde and capitulating.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05It's a note from my history teacher, Ms Crane.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08- You've got to meet with her at 3:15.- Today?- Uh-huh.
0:23:08 > 0:23:12Why do you always wait to the last minute to tell me these things?
0:23:12 > 0:23:16I've got a life, too, you know. It's not like I don't have nothing to do.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19I'm sorry! What do you want me to do? Throw myself off a bridge?
0:23:19 > 0:23:21Yeah, and take your brother and sister with you.
0:23:21 > 0:23:23LAUGHTER
0:23:36 > 0:23:39When I first was a young mother
0:23:39 > 0:23:42and would just sit home watching television with my kids,
0:23:42 > 0:23:44and I was just appalled at television.
0:23:44 > 0:23:46I had the fantasy, like a lot of people do,
0:23:46 > 0:23:49"Man, if I ever got a chance to get on there, here's what I'd do.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52"Here's how I'd say it's all BS."
0:23:52 > 0:23:55There was never any woman like me on there,
0:23:55 > 0:23:58or my grandma or my mom or my aunts.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00There was just nothing like that.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03So I always wanted to kind of get inside the stereotype
0:24:03 > 0:24:06and punch the walls out of it.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08We're going to be at the bowling alley, and...
0:24:08 > 0:24:11Chip's going to be at the bowling alley...
0:24:13 > 0:24:15- SOUTHERN DRAWL:- We're bound to run into one another.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17LAUGHTER
0:24:19 > 0:24:22Please, don't embarrass me. Please!
0:24:22 > 0:24:25Oh, honey, there's no way we'd embarrass you!
0:24:25 > 0:24:26LAUGHTER
0:24:26 > 0:24:29The first network we took it to rejected it.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32They said, "Who would want to watch...that?
0:24:32 > 0:24:33"Who would want to watch her?
0:24:33 > 0:24:37"Who would want to watch a show about this? No."
0:24:43 > 0:24:47It was the first realistic representation of a mother
0:24:47 > 0:24:49I had ever seen on television.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53It was a woman who couldn't necessarily hold on to a job.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56And, physically, Roseanne was relatable.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59She was just this sort of big, shrill, mid-western housewife.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04Everybody knows that women run the family.
0:25:04 > 0:25:07That was never on TV. That's the thing that I liked.
0:25:07 > 0:25:10The story of a real mother on television.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13I thought it was just so important.
0:25:13 > 0:25:18Every detail of that set, spoke volumes about how hard it was
0:25:18 > 0:25:21to have enough money, to put food on the table.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24This is a character who's paid by the hour, it's a character who
0:25:24 > 0:25:26is not getting enough health care benefits,
0:25:26 > 0:25:30who's struggling, and trying to balance the needs of being
0:25:30 > 0:25:33a good mom with the needs of bringing home a paycheck.
0:25:33 > 0:25:37You're over-worked, you're underpaid, you're overweight.
0:25:37 > 0:25:41And to be laughing at that? Making edgy jokes about that?
0:25:41 > 0:25:43That was new. That was different.
0:25:43 > 0:25:47I think in the same way that Roseanne was always
0:25:47 > 0:25:48fearless in her stand-up act,
0:25:48 > 0:25:54she seemed fearless about what her own personal issues might be.
0:25:54 > 0:25:58What do you mean, going and getting ploughed? What is your problem?
0:25:58 > 0:26:01You poo-poo everything in my life.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05Yeah, and you go right for your addictive behaviour.
0:26:07 > 0:26:09Cos you cannot handle conflict.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12And my character said to Roseanne...
0:26:12 > 0:26:15Well, have another shot of pancake, Roseanne.
0:26:15 > 0:26:17LAUGHTER
0:26:18 > 0:26:21You've got to have a pair
0:26:21 > 0:26:24to be able to allow, you know,
0:26:24 > 0:26:28another character to say that to your character,
0:26:28 > 0:26:32knowing full well that you are your character.
0:26:32 > 0:26:36I don't know who else was getting down and dirty like that.
0:26:36 > 0:26:38All this time you told me if I worked hard
0:26:38 > 0:26:41and got good grades and everything I could make something of myself.
0:26:41 > 0:26:43And you still can.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45Yeah, going to night school, working at the Buy 'N Bag?
0:26:45 > 0:26:48- I'm going to wind up just like you! - Hey!
0:26:48 > 0:26:50- Hey!- Dan.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52- You apologize for that.- No!
0:26:52 > 0:26:55I really wanted the edge on that show.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58And it was a battle, every single day.
0:26:58 > 0:27:03Because these people who make television just...
0:27:03 > 0:27:05They don't have any...
0:27:05 > 0:27:07They're like aliens or something.
0:27:07 > 0:27:11They don't have any real life experience or any values or anything.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13Becky, I'm working two jobs here...
0:27:13 > 0:27:15I was working class enough myself to, you know,
0:27:15 > 0:27:20do the things that working class people do when you come in front of
0:27:20 > 0:27:24elitist people, which is a lot of outrageous things, when I look back.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26But it worked. It worked for me.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33She was pissed off and she meant everything she said.
0:27:33 > 0:27:36She lived that life and then she became this big star.
0:27:36 > 0:27:41But in her heart she still was the person struggling with her life.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43I can't believe you let her talk to you like that.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48Dan, the fact that she doesn't want to end up like me
0:27:48 > 0:27:51just proves that she's been paying attention around here...
0:27:51 > 0:27:53All of it was real life.
0:27:53 > 0:27:57Things that I tried to make sense of by making it funny on television.
0:27:57 > 0:28:01There are so many red flags, you know, for a network,
0:28:01 > 0:28:04when you put somebody like that on TV, who's so raw
0:28:04 > 0:28:10and interesting and, you know, not eye candy for male viewers.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13I can't think of a show that pulled off something that impossible.
0:28:13 > 0:28:16I really wanted to show, hey, you can be different and OK.
0:28:16 > 0:28:18You can be fat and OK.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21Your husband can be fat. You can be unemployed.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24Your kids are brats. You're still OK.
0:28:24 > 0:28:27As long as you have honesty and integrity
0:28:27 > 0:28:30and some measure of intelligence, it's all OK.
0:28:30 > 0:28:34What isn't OK is to be OK with how bad things are.
0:28:35 > 0:28:40Just to throw some mud in the eye of the beast was fun.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45But, like it or loathe it,
0:28:45 > 0:28:50the beast has to be fed on a high protein diet of advertising dollars.
0:28:50 > 0:28:53I got to admit one thing Ralph,
0:28:53 > 0:28:55television sure is great for selling things.
0:28:55 > 0:28:56You can say that again.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59Today, almost half the time you're watching,
0:28:59 > 0:29:00you're watching a commercial.
0:29:00 > 0:29:05The 30 minute television show is down to 22 minutes and 20 minutes.
0:29:05 > 0:29:07They've been sneaking them up on us.
0:29:07 > 0:29:10It is a business and it is a business that we
0:29:10 > 0:29:13are there to, on broadcast television,
0:29:13 > 0:29:15to sell products to America.
0:29:15 > 0:29:18Stop, you're both right!
0:29:18 > 0:29:22A lot of the executives in regular network television,
0:29:22 > 0:29:24they are tied to advertisers, there's a lot of fear.
0:29:24 > 0:29:26SCREAMING
0:29:28 > 0:29:30The whole deal was really to sell products.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33So the shows that you made were things that wouldn't disturb you
0:29:33 > 0:29:37too much or make you think too much, or even pay attention that much.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40Pay cable is not worried about that. They want interesting.
0:29:40 > 0:29:42Once you can stop worrying about
0:29:42 > 0:29:45getting 20 million people to watch your show,
0:29:45 > 0:29:48then you have a lot more flexibility.
0:29:48 > 0:29:51When it came to the depiction of women,
0:29:51 > 0:29:55dependence on advertising acted as its own glass ceiling.
0:29:55 > 0:29:59Network and cable channels that got their revenue from ad breaks
0:29:59 > 0:30:02had to be sensitive to the feelings of advertisers,
0:30:02 > 0:30:04as well as their viewers.
0:30:04 > 0:30:08So it would be on subscription-only channels, like HBO,
0:30:08 > 0:30:11that the barriers would be broken and the lives of women shown
0:30:11 > 0:30:15with a frankness never seen before in primetime.
0:30:15 > 0:30:17Compared to the reach of the networks,
0:30:17 > 0:30:19the ratings for these shows were small,
0:30:19 > 0:30:22but their cultural impact would be enormous.
0:30:24 > 0:30:26The gods are punishing me for having casual sex.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29There are definitely constraints on broadcast
0:30:29 > 0:30:31that cable doesn't have, that we fight against.
0:30:31 > 0:30:35If you're getting 85% of your revenue from subscriber fees,
0:30:35 > 0:30:38you're not concerned about what advertising you're selling.
0:30:38 > 0:30:40You're not concerned about your ratings.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43The thing about cable that really helped the television business
0:30:43 > 0:30:45is it does represent freedom.
0:30:45 > 0:30:49There's an understanding that in cable there's less restriction.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52But I don't think that that makes great programming necessarily.
0:30:52 > 0:30:55We understand that we're not here to serve the mass.
0:30:55 > 0:30:58We'll do the best we can to give something that's sort of more pure,
0:30:58 > 0:31:00and let's hope that people come and find it.
0:31:00 > 0:31:02We can't compete with that.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08I had come from doing a lot of network television,
0:31:08 > 0:31:13and felt like I wanted to do the network TV equivalent
0:31:13 > 0:31:14of the independent film.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19And it was going to look at sex and relationships in a way
0:31:19 > 0:31:22that no television comedy had ever looked at them
0:31:22 > 0:31:25and would never be able to look at them.
0:31:25 > 0:31:27We didn't have to answer to advertising dollars,
0:31:27 > 0:31:31and we didn't have to respond to Nielsen ratings and worry about that.
0:31:31 > 0:31:33Oh, God! Oh, Kurt!
0:31:33 > 0:31:36The challenge of creating a character like Carrie
0:31:36 > 0:31:38was having a sexually independent woman,
0:31:38 > 0:31:42who was having sex with a number of different men unapologetically,
0:31:42 > 0:31:45and you wouldn't think she was a bitch.
0:31:46 > 0:31:50Ah, righty. My turn.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53Oh, sorry. I have to go back to work.
0:32:06 > 0:32:09|Mary Tyler Moore shook up television in the 70s.
0:32:09 > 0:32:13Carrie was going to be sort of a Mary Tyler Moore
0:32:13 > 0:32:15for, you know, the new millennium.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18She's one of the ultimate independent women.
0:32:18 > 0:32:20Living in New York when that show was in its heyday -
0:32:20 > 0:32:23I mean, that was our bible.
0:32:23 > 0:32:26This is first time in the history of Manhattan
0:32:26 > 0:32:28that women have had as much money and power as men,
0:32:28 > 0:32:32plus the equal luxury of treating men like sex objects.
0:32:32 > 0:32:34I was so surprised how many people stopped me,
0:32:34 > 0:32:38women, on the street and said, "This is my life.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41"This is how I communicate with my girlfriends.
0:32:41 > 0:32:43"This is how I share my life with my women friends."
0:32:43 > 0:32:46To me, what is most exciting about Sex And The City -
0:32:46 > 0:32:49which I love, by the way - is the focus on the friendships,
0:32:49 > 0:32:51and the strength of the friendships.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54The relationship between those four women is always paramount,
0:32:54 > 0:32:56regardless of what's happening around them.
0:32:56 > 0:32:59A simple "You're so hard" is often quite effective.
0:32:59 > 0:33:02- Sometimes men just need to hear a little encouragement.- Such as?
0:33:02 > 0:33:07You know, "Yeah, stud, that's right, uh-huh, don't stop, just like that,
0:33:07 > 0:33:09"come on, fucker, don't stop."
0:33:11 > 0:33:14Seeing those women sit around a table and talk frankly
0:33:14 > 0:33:17about relationships, that to me felt really revolutionary.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20In the past a lot of male shows objectified women,
0:33:20 > 0:33:22and in this case we were always objectifying the men.
0:33:22 > 0:33:25They didn't even have names. They were Mr This or Mr That.
0:33:25 > 0:33:28They came and went and they were very disposable.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31I always felt bad for the men who came on.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34"Wow, you know, they really don't get to say much!"
0:33:35 > 0:33:39There's a brief introduction, and then their trousers are off.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42If I were to do a show about a bunch of guys, you know,
0:33:42 > 0:33:46sort of talking smack about women in an explicit way,
0:33:46 > 0:33:48it just would not be funny.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51We never considered the show to be political.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54We never... We weren't that subversive.
0:33:54 > 0:33:57I think it was subversive because we weren't trying to be.
0:33:57 > 0:34:00We weren't necessarily thinking about making a social statement.
0:34:00 > 0:34:03We were thinking about what was going to be funny.
0:34:03 > 0:34:06Into the breach opened up by the big-city cable girls
0:34:06 > 0:34:09stepped the network suburbanites.
0:34:09 > 0:34:13ABC's Desperate Housewives carried the trend
0:34:13 > 0:34:17for explicit frankness into the heartland of mainstream America.
0:34:17 > 0:34:21I was influenced when I created the show by Sex And The City,
0:34:21 > 0:34:25but those women told each other everything.
0:34:25 > 0:34:30And my experience with women is that, you know, a lot of them
0:34:30 > 0:34:35will share a lot, but they don't give away everything.
0:34:36 > 0:34:38If these women are going to be desperate,
0:34:38 > 0:34:41it's because they can't share everything about their lives.
0:34:45 > 0:34:50I wanted a very pretty universe, so that the kind of dirty, dark,
0:34:50 > 0:34:54wicked goings on would have a lovely pastel background.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56You never know what's happening behind closed doors.
0:34:56 > 0:35:00You never know what is really going on with your neighbours.
0:35:02 > 0:35:05A couple of months before I came up with the idea of Desperate Housewives,
0:35:05 > 0:35:07I went to a reunion.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10One of my friends asked this gal we all knew,
0:35:10 > 0:35:13"So, do you just love being a mom?"
0:35:13 > 0:35:15And she said, "No."
0:35:15 > 0:35:17And I was kind of stunned,
0:35:17 > 0:35:20because I didn't know women could say that out loud.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23What I liked about Lynette, is it gave voice to what I felt
0:35:23 > 0:35:26were the difficulties and challenges of motherhood.
0:35:26 > 0:35:28How about you?
0:35:28 > 0:35:31Four at home, two on the way.
0:35:31 > 0:35:33Oh, big family! You're so blessed!
0:35:33 > 0:35:35SHE LAUGHS
0:35:35 > 0:35:38I just can't imagine anything better than being a mommy.
0:35:50 > 0:35:54My experience when my children were little is there wasn't
0:35:54 > 0:35:57a whole lot of room for, "Wow, I hate this."
0:35:57 > 0:35:59What happened to the old me?"
0:35:59 > 0:36:01And I am not one of those women
0:36:01 > 0:36:04that went into motherhood with equanimity and grace.
0:36:04 > 0:36:08I kind of went in going, "Oh, my God! This is so hard."
0:36:08 > 0:36:11Lynette hates being a mother. She doesn't enjoy it.
0:36:13 > 0:36:15And has a breakdown on a soccer field.
0:36:15 > 0:36:18Susan and Brie go out to comfort her,
0:36:18 > 0:36:21and they confess to her that they understand.
0:36:21 > 0:36:23They've been through it, too.
0:36:23 > 0:36:25And that's when Lynette turns to them and says,
0:36:25 > 0:36:28"Why doesn't anyone talk about this?"
0:36:28 > 0:36:31Cos part of the pain is the shame of it.
0:36:32 > 0:36:35When you think back to Leave It To Beaver
0:36:35 > 0:36:36or any of those women,
0:36:36 > 0:36:39the whole idea was that you had to be perfect.
0:36:39 > 0:36:43In the same way that women were fighting against the icon of the perfect wife,
0:36:43 > 0:36:45in the '50s and the '60s that led to women's lib,
0:36:45 > 0:36:49the new icon is motherhood, the perfection of motherhood.
0:36:49 > 0:36:52When people say, "Oh, she's just a mother",
0:36:52 > 0:36:54I'm like, do you know how hard that is?
0:36:54 > 0:36:57It's a lot easier for me to get up in the morning and go to work,
0:36:57 > 0:36:59when someone offers me a cup of coffee.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03When I decided to start writing the show, the first thing I came up with
0:37:03 > 0:37:05was the title, Desperate Housewives.
0:37:05 > 0:37:08The woman who was running the testing group said,
0:37:08 > 0:37:10"A lot of women aren't going to like that."
0:37:10 > 0:37:13And that became interesting because it became clear to me
0:37:13 > 0:37:17they didn't really respect women who just stayed in the home.
0:37:17 > 0:37:21Now you have to go be the female CEO of a Fortune 500 company
0:37:21 > 0:37:24for us to respect you and care about you.
0:37:25 > 0:37:29I find any woman who wants to be a wife and mother
0:37:29 > 0:37:32and devote her life to creating a home,
0:37:32 > 0:37:35I find there's something quietly and beautifully heroic about that,
0:37:35 > 0:37:38and I'm attracted to write about that.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46By now, primetime women were having it all -
0:37:46 > 0:37:50independence, a career, a family, a sex-life,
0:37:50 > 0:37:54not to mention adultery, addictions, complications,
0:37:54 > 0:37:57breakdowns and suicides.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00As a famous cigarette advertisement once put it,
0:38:00 > 0:38:02"You've come a long way, baby."
0:38:09 > 0:38:13There are many women out there, you know,
0:38:13 > 0:38:16who are very successful, independent women.
0:38:16 > 0:38:21For whom love has always been elusive.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26You know that they're dying to connect.
0:38:26 > 0:38:30And I think that's what we all are. We're just dying to connect.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34Grey's Anatomy was a show that I pitched as being about
0:38:34 > 0:38:38strong, competitive women who worked in a workplace
0:38:38 > 0:38:41where on a bad day, you actually killed somebody.
0:38:43 > 0:38:45The entire show, really, by the way,
0:38:45 > 0:38:48is a love story between Meredith and Cristina.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51They're two women who completely bond
0:38:51 > 0:38:55over the fact that they are cut-throat and competitive
0:38:55 > 0:38:58and love surgery almost more than anything else.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01- Which is it, surgery or love? - I want both.- That's what I said.
0:39:01 > 0:39:03- No, you can't have both. - Why the hell not?
0:39:03 > 0:39:05I definitely wanted to play Cristina.
0:39:05 > 0:39:08Doing the procedure is the only thing that matters.
0:39:08 > 0:39:10Like, if you don't get to do it, you'll die.
0:39:10 > 0:39:12- That's what you have to give up. - For what?
0:39:12 > 0:39:14ALL: Love.
0:39:27 > 0:39:33She's competitive, mean, nasty,
0:39:33 > 0:39:37but she has this intense calling.
0:39:37 > 0:39:40It's almost secondary that she's helping people!
0:39:42 > 0:39:45Part of what makes the show interesting and complex for me
0:39:45 > 0:39:48to write is that I'm constantly exploring how these women
0:39:48 > 0:39:52are dealing with what they're doing in their work life,
0:39:52 > 0:39:55and how that's going to mesh with having a personal life.
0:39:55 > 0:39:56Can I have both?
0:39:56 > 0:39:59Can I be a great surgeon and have a life?
0:39:59 > 0:40:01Because there is this man who just asked me to marry him,
0:40:01 > 0:40:05and I know you tried to have both, but you split up with Meredith's dad.
0:40:05 > 0:40:09- I know this is none of my business. - It is none of your business.
0:40:16 > 0:40:18And I didn't try hard enough.
0:40:19 > 0:40:24Sometimes we find ourselves caught between, how do we balance?
0:40:24 > 0:40:31How can we have a successful, meaningful personal life,
0:40:31 > 0:40:36work life, and find room for a loving relationship?
0:40:39 > 0:40:42The idea that we're all supposed to want this thing,
0:40:42 > 0:40:44which is, you know, marriage and babies
0:40:44 > 0:40:47and a husband who, you know, rides a white horse...
0:40:49 > 0:40:51I know everybody wants the fairytale,
0:40:51 > 0:40:54but the fairytale doesn't necessarily exist for these women.
0:41:06 > 0:41:10So many women that I knew,
0:41:10 > 0:41:16and myself included, were struggling with finding balance.
0:41:16 > 0:41:20To be sexy, to look young, to make a living.
0:41:20 > 0:41:22How do you deal with not having childcare?
0:41:22 > 0:41:24How do you deal with bringing your baby to work?
0:41:24 > 0:41:27How do you deal with the fact that your husband's not happy
0:41:27 > 0:41:30with how much time you're spending or not spending with your child?
0:41:31 > 0:41:35You know, there is no resolution to that problem of finding balance,
0:41:35 > 0:41:39unless you're willing to say balance is really overrated.
0:41:40 > 0:41:44There's no way you can succeed at that all the time.
0:41:44 > 0:41:46In bits and pieces, I suppose.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53We've moved past that moment in which you're supposed to be able
0:41:53 > 0:41:56to have it all, or that having it all is real
0:41:56 > 0:41:58or, frankly, even satisfying, cos if you have it all,
0:41:58 > 0:42:01isn't it that your only doing everything half way?
0:42:01 > 0:42:05And that's the thing that's most interesting to me.
0:42:08 > 0:42:09Choices of another kind
0:42:09 > 0:42:13are explored in the suburban black comedy Weeds.
0:42:13 > 0:42:19Nancy Botwin breaks the final taboo and embraces a life of crime.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26I get real enjoyment out of playing people
0:42:26 > 0:42:31who are kind of wildly intolerable to themselves or to other people.
0:42:31 > 0:42:33I don't think I'd be interested in playing somebody
0:42:33 > 0:42:37who was just sort of consistently ingratiating and perfect.
0:42:37 > 0:42:39Due to circumstances beyond her control -
0:42:39 > 0:42:41namely, her husband dropping dead -
0:42:41 > 0:42:45Nancy Botwin needs to make big money so she can maintain her lifestyle.
0:42:45 > 0:42:50And the way to do that fast in America is to sell drugs.
0:42:50 > 0:42:51You are a drug dealer.
0:42:53 > 0:42:55Yes, Shane.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59I grow and sell marijuana.
0:43:02 > 0:43:03It's organic.
0:43:03 > 0:43:06It's therapeutic.
0:43:06 > 0:43:07It's of the earth.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10Like...tomatoes.
0:43:25 > 0:43:29There's a lot of juggling that has to be done to live a life.
0:43:30 > 0:43:33You pay attention to one part and the other part suffers.
0:43:33 > 0:43:35You pay attention to that part and you go broke
0:43:35 > 0:43:37and you lose your house or whatever it is.
0:43:37 > 0:43:41I think it's about the problem in front of her, how does she solve it?
0:43:41 > 0:43:43And I think things in the periphery,
0:43:43 > 0:43:45I think her children are in the periphery,
0:43:45 > 0:43:49and, you know, morality is in the periphery.
0:43:49 > 0:43:50I'm sorry.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54- Why?- Because you got hurt.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57- I'm OK.- Shane, you got shot.
0:43:57 > 0:43:59It was bound to happen sooner or later.
0:43:59 > 0:44:01No, it's not supposed to happen at all.
0:44:01 > 0:44:04It's not. "When is he going to get shot?"
0:44:04 > 0:44:08It's not something that crosses your mind when you're pretending to be the tooth fairy.
0:44:09 > 0:44:11She's done damage to her children,
0:44:11 > 0:44:13she's done damage to her relationships,
0:44:13 > 0:44:15she's done damage to herself.
0:44:15 > 0:44:17And that's the collateral damage of life.
0:44:19 > 0:44:23I think if she took the time to really sit down
0:44:23 > 0:44:25and assess the damage she's done,
0:44:25 > 0:44:29it would be enormously painful and possibly immobilizing.
0:44:29 > 0:44:31And she's got to keep moving.
0:44:31 > 0:44:33This was not what I had in mind.
0:44:33 > 0:44:36- Then it's a sign.- Sign?
0:44:36 > 0:44:39That it's time to move on.
0:44:39 > 0:44:41That you don't belong here.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43I don't think she can ever go back.
0:44:43 > 0:44:47She's been offered that, in a way, by other relationships
0:44:47 > 0:44:50she's had through the show and she's refused it.
0:44:50 > 0:44:53She wants to stay in the gangster life.
0:44:53 > 0:44:54Count.
0:44:56 > 0:44:58One, two...
0:45:00 > 0:45:02(..three.)
0:45:02 > 0:45:05Why do women have to be these pristine figures
0:45:05 > 0:45:07of comfort and morality?
0:45:07 > 0:45:10They're not. They're complex human beings.
0:45:10 > 0:45:12She can be neurotic. She can be a drug dealer.
0:45:12 > 0:45:15There's no sense of having this woman
0:45:15 > 0:45:18be tipping her head to feminism,
0:45:18 > 0:45:22tipping her head to anything other than her need to find herself.
0:45:22 > 0:45:25She can be addicted to pills.
0:45:25 > 0:45:28It's just we've sort of stretched our threshold a little farther.
0:45:31 > 0:45:33You never hear someone say,
0:45:33 > 0:45:36"Oh, he's a party guy, you don't want to marry him."
0:45:36 > 0:45:38But you hear them always say, "Oh, she's a party girl.
0:45:38 > 0:45:41"Fun for a laugh but not the kind of girl you want to marry."
0:45:43 > 0:45:47You can play with the bad girls, but you marry a good girl, you know.
0:45:49 > 0:45:51It starts with an image.
0:45:51 > 0:45:55A man on the stage - a politician - who has just gone through scandal,
0:45:55 > 0:45:59and we think he's going to be the star of our show.
0:46:04 > 0:46:05And then, as he's speaking,
0:46:05 > 0:46:09we back out and see this woman standing beside him just mortified.
0:46:09 > 0:46:13With the love of God, the forgiveness of my family,
0:46:13 > 0:46:15I know I can rebuild their trust.
0:46:17 > 0:46:20All you see is this sort of hollowed out, exhausted woman.
0:46:30 > 0:46:33But she's still going to get the lint off his sleeve.
0:46:35 > 0:46:40We kept seeing that one image, over and over,
0:46:40 > 0:46:44that press conference of the disgraced politician,
0:46:44 > 0:46:47or preacher or whomever,
0:46:47 > 0:46:50with that wife standing by his side.
0:46:50 > 0:46:52I'm not sitting here some little woman,
0:46:52 > 0:46:55standing by my man like Tammy Wynette.
0:46:57 > 0:47:00One just kept wondering, "What is going through her mind?"
0:47:00 > 0:47:03And the reality hits her of what she was just put through,
0:47:03 > 0:47:05and the humiliation.
0:47:05 > 0:47:06It's that feeling of
0:47:06 > 0:47:10you allowed me to become that small and unimportant.
0:47:14 > 0:47:17And in that moment, when she slaps him,
0:47:17 > 0:47:19it's her wake up.
0:47:19 > 0:47:23It's not just about, "You bastard, how could you have done this to me?"
0:47:23 > 0:47:26It's her wake up to, "What have I been doing?"
0:47:26 > 0:47:29From that moment on, everything that is involved
0:47:29 > 0:47:32in that relationship is open for questioning.
0:47:32 > 0:47:36The Good Wife is Alicia Florrick, forced back into the workplace
0:47:36 > 0:47:38following a sex and corruption scandal
0:47:38 > 0:47:41that has put her high-flier husband behind bars.
0:47:43 > 0:47:45So, Will speaks highly of you.
0:47:45 > 0:47:48He says you graduated top of your class at Georgetown. When was this?
0:47:48 > 0:47:50- 15 years ago.- Uh-huh.
0:47:50 > 0:47:54- And you spent two years at...? - Crozier, Abrams and Abbot.
0:47:54 > 0:47:55Good firm.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58Will says you clocked the highest billable hours there.
0:47:58 > 0:47:59Why did you leave?
0:48:00 > 0:48:03- Well, the kids and Peter's career.- Hm.
0:48:14 > 0:48:18Women are asked, we're asked a lot of ourselves.
0:48:18 > 0:48:21Just from us, I'm not blaming anyone but us.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25Just as a mother myself, and a wife, and someone who loves to work,
0:48:25 > 0:48:30the constant struggle of trying to be great at both is exhausting.
0:48:30 > 0:48:34And there is this tremendous pressure that I think
0:48:34 > 0:48:37working women mothers put on themselves to be everything.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40And you can't. You just can't.
0:48:40 > 0:48:44In contrast to Alicia is Kalinda Sharma,
0:48:44 > 0:48:47played by British actress Archie Panjabi.
0:48:47 > 0:48:52She's an in-house investigator who lives by a different moral code.
0:48:52 > 0:48:56Alicia's the good wife, Kalinda's definitely the bad chick.
0:48:57 > 0:49:01The type of woman who would do things
0:49:01 > 0:49:04that Alicia would probably never do.
0:49:06 > 0:49:08I guess I could just be confused.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11She's, you know, very blunt about the fact
0:49:11 > 0:49:13that she'll flirt with people to get work done.
0:49:13 > 0:49:17It may not be right, but for her it's the way the world works.
0:49:17 > 0:49:20What's fun about her character is there is no sense that
0:49:20 > 0:49:23any rules are being broken - that's just who she is.
0:49:23 > 0:49:26Kalinda is always trying to explain that to Alicia,
0:49:26 > 0:49:29that if you don't realise the way the world works,
0:49:29 > 0:49:30you're going to be left behind.
0:49:33 > 0:49:36I'm so new to television, but what I am learning is
0:49:36 > 0:49:39how challenging playing a character on television is.
0:49:42 > 0:49:46With a film, you have a script and you have it for three months,
0:49:46 > 0:49:49and you put all your effort into that character.
0:49:49 > 0:49:51But with television, you really have no idea
0:49:51 > 0:49:53where that character's going to go.
0:49:54 > 0:49:57When I was told the first season was nine months,
0:49:57 > 0:49:59I found that quite worrying.
0:49:59 > 0:50:02What am I going to do? How will I plant the seeds of what will happen to her?
0:50:02 > 0:50:06Have you got a character breakdown, what's going to happen in the next few episodes?
0:50:06 > 0:50:08No, this doesn't work like that.
0:50:08 > 0:50:10You just have to allow your character to grow.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13I guess I kind of sat back and thought,
0:50:13 > 0:50:16"Well, that's how real life is, isn't it?"
0:50:16 > 0:50:19People evolve and change and it depends on the situations
0:50:19 > 0:50:21and the people they interact with.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24And so I've kind of just let her do what she wants,
0:50:24 > 0:50:26and see what happens.
0:50:29 > 0:50:32We don't just identify with being mothers and wives any more.
0:50:32 > 0:50:35We don't just identify with being career women.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37But who are we?
0:50:37 > 0:50:40All colours of what a women can be are open to her.
0:50:40 > 0:50:42And she's trying to find her identity.
0:50:43 > 0:50:46She's finally figuring out
0:50:46 > 0:50:50that playing the good girl all the time hasn't gotten her very far.
0:50:50 > 0:50:52I hear it's always the first one called in -
0:50:52 > 0:50:54they're the one who gets fired.
0:50:54 > 0:50:56I really didn't need to know that.
0:50:56 > 0:50:58There's always this thing within Alicia of...
0:50:58 > 0:51:00what's the right thing and should I be doing the right thing?
0:51:00 > 0:51:03She goes to Eli Gold.
0:51:03 > 0:51:06That's not what she would have done two years before.
0:51:06 > 0:51:10I'm in competition with another junior associate.
0:51:10 > 0:51:11And?
0:51:13 > 0:51:16You're worried you're going to get laid off.
0:51:17 > 0:51:21- OK, I can hire the guy away and then, dump him.- No, no.
0:51:21 > 0:51:25Alicia really is consistently trying to do the right thing
0:51:25 > 0:51:29and it's just difficult because so much is being thrown at her.
0:51:29 > 0:51:31I'm not this person.
0:51:31 > 0:51:32Mrs Florrick?
0:51:32 > 0:51:35If I know one thing in life it's that everybody is that person.
0:51:35 > 0:51:38While she's not become unethical,
0:51:38 > 0:51:42I think she's perhaps a little more comfortable in the grey area
0:51:42 > 0:51:45than she was when she walked in.
0:51:45 > 0:51:47So there's nothing I can say?
0:51:47 > 0:51:49That's right.
0:51:49 > 0:51:51Showing her flaws...
0:51:52 > 0:51:55..is actually a lot more comfortable...
0:51:56 > 0:51:58Damn it!
0:51:58 > 0:51:59..than pretending she doesn't have any.
0:52:18 > 0:52:19Are you OK?
0:52:19 > 0:52:21What do you think?
0:52:31 > 0:52:35I mean, she's a drug addict, she cheats on her husband,
0:52:35 > 0:52:37she breaks the law sometimes
0:52:37 > 0:52:40with some choices she makes as a nurse, but she is...
0:52:40 > 0:52:43Deep down, she is so good.
0:52:43 > 0:52:45Linda and I had both been sober for a long time
0:52:45 > 0:52:48so we both understand addiction, and we thought,
0:52:48 > 0:52:50"You know, that's a great thing to give a main character,"
0:52:50 > 0:52:52sort of an undertow,
0:52:52 > 0:52:55always pulling them toward some level of destruction.
0:53:02 > 0:53:04She really does think this is what she has to do
0:53:04 > 0:53:06to get through the day.
0:53:06 > 0:53:10We loved the idea that she was this single woman,
0:53:10 > 0:53:12you thought, at work,
0:53:12 > 0:53:14with a boyfriend who was a pharmacist.
0:53:14 > 0:53:16She comes home and there's two kids...
0:53:16 > 0:53:18Hey, babe!
0:53:18 > 0:53:19..and a husband.
0:53:19 > 0:53:22She wants to honour the commitments that she's made to her patients.
0:53:22 > 0:53:23She wants to honour the commitments
0:53:23 > 0:53:26that she's made as a mother, as a wife.
0:53:26 > 0:53:28Can't talk, love you.
0:53:28 > 0:53:30But she's stretched herself so thin
0:53:30 > 0:53:33that now the cracks are starting to show.
0:53:36 > 0:53:40You know, you have this one life, and what a high wire act it is.
0:53:40 > 0:53:43Now, she's like juggling knives on the high wire.
0:53:43 > 0:53:46And now, she's going to start spinning plates and juggling knives on the high wire.
0:53:46 > 0:53:49This woman has so many things pulling at her,
0:53:49 > 0:53:51and I think people can relate to that.
0:53:51 > 0:53:55And I think women, especially, can relate to that.
0:53:56 > 0:53:58In order to get drugs from Eddie...
0:53:58 > 0:53:59Thank you.
0:53:59 > 0:54:03..Jackie takes her ring off when she goes to the hospital.
0:54:03 > 0:54:06There was an episode where Jackie can't get her wedding ring off
0:54:06 > 0:54:08and she just panics.
0:54:08 > 0:54:10BUZZING
0:54:10 > 0:54:12OK, for the record, I'm officially questioning your judgement.
0:54:12 > 0:54:14Duly noted.
0:54:14 > 0:54:17She can't go home with a broken wedding ring.
0:54:19 > 0:54:20So, what do you do?
0:54:26 > 0:54:28SHE MOANS
0:54:32 > 0:54:36I understand, at least on some visceral sort of level,
0:54:36 > 0:54:39what it feels like for her.
0:54:40 > 0:54:42I really appreciate this.
0:54:42 > 0:54:43It's what I do.
0:54:43 > 0:54:45She has a lot of good intentions
0:54:45 > 0:54:47and really, ultimately, wants to be a good person
0:54:47 > 0:54:49and to help other people.
0:54:49 > 0:54:53But she is thwarted by her, you know, her inner chaos.
0:54:53 > 0:54:57And I think that's why people relate to Jackie, is because she is flawed.
0:54:57 > 0:55:00Everybody...everybody has secrets. Everybody has darkness.
0:55:00 > 0:55:02And, as a writer, it's so exciting
0:55:02 > 0:55:05to really just tell the truth with this stuff.
0:55:05 > 0:55:07She doesn't care if you like her.
0:55:07 > 0:55:08She doesn't care if she looks good.
0:55:08 > 0:55:13She doesn't care how she looks in those horrible pants from the...
0:55:13 > 0:55:16You know, she's just kind of, "Yep, here I am."
0:55:19 > 0:55:22I so look forward to her sobriety.
0:55:24 > 0:55:28If she can free herself from this addiction,
0:55:28 > 0:55:32what's underneath I think is a pretty spectacular person.
0:55:33 > 0:55:35We tell pretty intimate stories.
0:55:35 > 0:55:39There's no cataclysmic events going on, it's little earthquakes,
0:55:39 > 0:55:42slowly but surely destabilizing the ground that she walks on
0:55:42 > 0:55:44and the world that she inhabits.
0:55:44 > 0:55:48And that's how drama is in real life.
0:55:48 > 0:55:50Make me good, God...
0:55:51 > 0:55:53..but not yet.
0:55:59 > 0:56:02Oh, Master, you are sure you would not mind if I went alone?
0:56:02 > 0:56:07Women don't have to be any one thing on television any more.
0:56:07 > 0:56:08They can be anything.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11And I think that what makes that interesting for us
0:56:11 > 0:56:13is that we no longer have to turn on the television
0:56:13 > 0:56:16and see an image that feels like, "No woman would behave like that."
0:56:16 > 0:56:19What is off limits at this point? It doesn't seem like...
0:56:19 > 0:56:23If it's within the realm of experience that I've had,
0:56:23 > 0:56:24that people I know have had,
0:56:24 > 0:56:27that the writers have had or known people,
0:56:27 > 0:56:29then it's all game.
0:56:32 > 0:56:36Women, by and large, over the ages, have needed to be liked
0:56:36 > 0:56:39and approved, because that's all they had.
0:56:39 > 0:56:41They weren't offered jobs.
0:56:41 > 0:56:45It was, "Hey, am I cute enough for you, darling?"
0:56:45 > 0:56:48The women on television now are in pursuit of other things.
0:56:48 > 0:56:52And, yes, it would be nice if people liked them.
0:56:52 > 0:56:53But it's not their ultimate goal.
0:56:53 > 0:56:56We're so lucky as actors
0:56:56 > 0:56:59that television has embraced women so fully.
0:56:59 > 0:57:02There's so much more freedom
0:57:02 > 0:57:05to really be all the things that are human,
0:57:05 > 0:57:07even the ones that are sort of ugly.
0:57:07 > 0:57:10You can find somebody who reflects you on television right now.
0:57:10 > 0:57:11That hasn't always been the case.
0:57:11 > 0:57:14Not only is that more liberating, but it's way more creative
0:57:14 > 0:57:16and way more fun to play as an artist.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19I think the key to making great TV is to reflect,
0:57:19 > 0:57:22to really reflect real human behaviour.
0:57:22 > 0:57:24Our hopes and dreams and struggles.
0:57:50 > 0:57:56Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd