0:00:08 > 0:00:10What I do is I make people face things
0:00:10 > 0:00:13they don't necessarily want to face.
0:00:13 > 0:00:17I think everybody's had these experiences of feeling alone
0:00:17 > 0:00:19or misunderstood.
0:00:20 > 0:00:22They're the sort of things that I work on.
0:00:23 > 0:00:24But it's not conscious.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27I don't go, "I'm going to do a painting about somebody that feels..."
0:00:27 > 0:00:31I just sort of think, well, I'll just see where this takes me.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45CLOCK TICKS
0:00:51 > 0:00:53SHE GROANS
0:01:13 > 0:01:15WATER RUNS
0:01:28 > 0:01:30KETTLE BOILS
0:01:34 > 0:01:35Yoghurt...
0:01:35 > 0:01:36Yoghurt's up here.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39I'm a bit tired this morning.
0:01:39 > 0:01:40I know, did you sleep?
0:01:40 > 0:01:43- No, I woke up at three o'clock in the morning again.- Hm.
0:01:43 > 0:01:47Mm. And it goes so quickly.
0:01:47 > 0:01:51The three or four hours till seven o'clock...it'll whizz by.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53I bet you did sleep.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56What else was I thinking about that I had to do?
0:01:57 > 0:01:59I'm sort of excited, but...
0:02:10 > 0:02:15- Hi.- Hello.- Nice to see you. - Good to see you.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19- Hi.- Hi, Tim.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26This exhibition, which are all my paintings,
0:02:26 > 0:02:30is also going incorporate this room.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32It's an audience of painting...
0:02:32 > 0:02:33It is a bit.
0:02:33 > 0:02:38You become, like me being in here, I'm now the subject of my painting.
0:02:39 > 0:02:41Without having to do a painting of me.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48Do you want a coffee, Tim?
0:02:48 > 0:02:50Yeah, please.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00Oh, there's a little bird inside.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03Little robin, you were in here the other day, weren't you?
0:03:07 > 0:03:09Out you go. Come on.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11Out you go.
0:03:11 > 0:03:12Come on.
0:03:17 > 0:03:19Quite nice, that little bird in here.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25Make such a difference when that room is out of the studio.
0:03:25 > 0:03:27In a way it's taking up space from painting,
0:03:27 > 0:03:31cos I need that sort of space to think about the painting.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35Ecological...coffee.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37BANGING
0:03:38 > 0:03:39There we go.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44I should move that painting out the way, Steve.
0:03:46 > 0:03:50When are you doing that one? The red one?
0:03:50 > 0:03:52I'll be doing that later on today.
0:03:52 > 0:03:56That'll take me about a month to do that painting.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59I mean, it could take me two weeks, it just depends.
0:03:59 > 0:04:03Sometimes it can happen very quickly and then other times it...
0:04:04 > 0:04:06- We're set.- Fantastic.
0:04:06 > 0:04:08Thank you very much. See you soon.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13I was born in Australia, in Melbourne.
0:04:14 > 0:04:19My mother was an actress and my stepdad was a theatre director.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24My mother was in the role of Nora in A Doll's House,
0:04:24 > 0:04:26directed by my stepdad.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28Everybody was saying she was marvellous,
0:04:28 > 0:04:30brilliant in the performance, actually.
0:04:30 > 0:04:32And she thought you had to go to London,
0:04:32 > 0:04:35you should be acting in London.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37So we got the boat from Melbourne
0:04:37 > 0:04:41and we came on the Oriana in 1963.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47THEY CHATTER
0:04:49 > 0:04:52We're clearing the back wall
0:04:52 > 0:04:55so that we can put the big red painting there.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58So that I can paint on it.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03And then we're going to try to get some of the paintings out that
0:05:03 > 0:05:07I want to refer to, which I like having round me.
0:05:08 > 0:05:10Put it on that bit of wood.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17I think this is very much about arriving in England...
0:05:17 > 0:05:21for the first time from Australia, when I was nine.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24And really, what I remember most vividly is the snow,
0:05:24 > 0:05:25which I'd never seen before.
0:05:25 > 0:05:30It was this thick cos it was 1963 - the worst winter ever.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33And we had little thin shoes, like this.
0:05:33 > 0:05:39Cos Australian winters are not the same, they're like now - autumn.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42Anyway, we got to this house where we were meant to stay and this
0:05:42 > 0:05:46window went up this woman said, "There's been a terrible mistake."
0:05:46 > 0:05:48"Never mind," she said,
0:05:48 > 0:05:50"Come upstairs and I'll give you a cup of tea and an omelette."
0:05:50 > 0:05:53So we went upstairs, she was flicking through the phonebook
0:05:53 > 0:05:56like this to find a hotel for us.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59And I just saw that this little girl had this beautiful
0:05:59 > 0:06:03doll's house and all these toys and comfort
0:06:03 > 0:06:08and a cosy little interior and it was all very nice and civilised.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10And we... So sad, isn't it?
0:06:10 > 0:06:17Went out into the cold again, into the taxi to a really grim hotel.
0:06:17 > 0:06:19And the only thing I remember about that is the wallpaper.
0:06:19 > 0:06:21This is why the wallpaper's everywhere.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23The wallpaper, this...
0:06:23 > 0:06:24It might not have been,
0:06:24 > 0:06:27but I seems to think that it was flock wallpaper.
0:06:29 > 0:06:34It was so evocative of luxury...
0:06:34 > 0:06:38The flockless, the sensuality of it, but in these rather grim bedsits.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44So the wallpaper is very much about both of us,
0:06:44 > 0:06:45in a way...
0:06:45 > 0:06:49being in our own little...
0:06:49 > 0:06:51world of dealing with it.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53And I think when people go through something,
0:06:53 > 0:06:59they tend to be quite self-enclosed, they're not really...
0:06:59 > 0:07:04They're not sharing - there's not an arm around, it's just like coping.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08In coping mode. So, um, I don't know what I felt.
0:07:08 > 0:07:10I don't know whether it was me, or whether it is me.
0:07:10 > 0:07:11It isn't me any more,
0:07:11 > 0:07:15it's just a memory or some kind of glimpse of something.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21Probably less compassionate about my mother here.
0:07:21 > 0:07:25I'm seeing her more tough. Well, she's having to be really.
0:07:25 > 0:07:26Had to be quite tough and...
0:07:26 > 0:07:30But it's really the relationship on a broader level.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33From a more, kind of, open level.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37It's really about the relationship between a mother and her daughter.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42And also, the idea that a mother
0:07:42 > 0:07:44is having to survive
0:07:44 > 0:07:46and she's got a career,
0:07:46 > 0:07:49she's sort of a contemporary woman
0:07:49 > 0:07:54and that daughter or that child has to fit into that scheme of things.
0:07:54 > 0:07:55So, you know...
0:07:59 > 0:08:01I don't know why I'm doing this at the moment.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05I think I'm doing it because of my mother reaching a certain age,
0:08:05 > 0:08:06in her 80s.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10At a certain stage, you hope you've reached some kind of compassion
0:08:10 > 0:08:13and understanding about your parents.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15Cos they're just people.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23I've always been intrigued by automata.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26These are things that are inspiration, actually,
0:08:26 > 0:08:27when you look at them.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30You sort of remember where your brain's gone or how it's going.
0:08:30 > 0:08:36But having these things and listening to that turning around...
0:08:36 > 0:08:38it's part of me.
0:08:38 > 0:08:42It's part of my work. It's part of everything, really.
0:08:42 > 0:08:43MUSIC PLAYS FROM AUTOMATON
0:08:49 > 0:08:50METALLIC DING
0:08:50 > 0:08:53VOICE FROM PIECE
0:08:53 > 0:08:55METALLIC DING
0:08:55 > 0:08:56VOICE FROM PIECE
0:08:58 > 0:09:00And in this my mum's...
0:09:00 > 0:09:03I got her to record her most significant parts, really.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08I just thought that she was the most appropriate person,
0:09:08 > 0:09:10and I think she enjoyed it.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13VOICE FROM PIECE: I have been greatly wronged.
0:09:13 > 0:09:16First my father, and then by you.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24KETTLE BOILS
0:09:24 > 0:09:27WATER POURS
0:09:29 > 0:09:34I always start painting at about nine, really, ideally, but because
0:09:34 > 0:09:37of today, and the installation being collected,
0:09:37 > 0:09:40of course it's messed up my routine.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44This painting, I started last week,
0:09:44 > 0:09:49and I've done a red undercoat on it, and the next process is...
0:09:49 > 0:09:50I can't decide.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54I can't decide whether to have, as in the installation,
0:09:54 > 0:09:58the enormous flowers so that you get the sense of the figure
0:09:58 > 0:10:00almost consumed by the flowers.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04Or, I could have a plain background.
0:10:04 > 0:10:07I'm going, still, through that dilemma in my head.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10So let's see what happens when I get to the studio.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56SHE COUGHS
0:10:56 > 0:10:59Right.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07I need to look at this a minute.
0:11:07 > 0:11:08I just want to look at the red.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12Decide what I want to do.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16Cos once I start, embark on the big black circles
0:11:16 > 0:11:20ready for the flowers, there's no turning back.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23So what do I do?
0:11:29 > 0:11:30Hm.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33Might start with the biggest first.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17You see, the thing with a painting is if I knew how to do it,
0:12:17 > 0:12:19I wouldn't do it, would I?
0:12:19 > 0:12:22If I knew what I was going to do, I wouldn't do it.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25Because it would be really boring.
0:13:06 > 0:13:09I don't see me in these paintings
0:13:09 > 0:13:14but I see an experience, a past experience of a past self.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23I'm trying to explore
0:13:23 > 0:13:30and make sense of my own personal mythology, if you like.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42You use your own experience as material.
0:13:45 > 0:13:51Sometimes, it's quite nice to go into things where you do feel hurt.
0:13:51 > 0:13:52As long as it's not too bad.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56It's quite a sweet sadness, really.
0:14:09 > 0:14:13I'm going to have to stop now and reappraise.
0:14:14 > 0:14:15Aagh!
0:14:18 > 0:14:19Anyway...
0:14:19 > 0:14:22I might like a little moment on my own to just have...
0:14:24 > 0:14:27..some...sanctuary.
0:14:27 > 0:14:29It's a bit like meditation, really.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32You know, you don't do it... to an audience.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35I suppose I should have done the wallpaper, really.
0:14:36 > 0:14:40I knew this would happen, I just felt like I had to get into it.
0:14:40 > 0:14:42So I might have a complete failure today
0:14:42 > 0:14:44and have to start all over again tomorrow.
0:14:44 > 0:14:45That often happens.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53I'll come back to it, I think.
0:14:53 > 0:14:54I'll just have a break.
0:14:54 > 0:15:00I just need to just get away...and come back in and surprise myself.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03You sort of get away.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05And then come back in.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07Oh, shit.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23I'll come back in a minute.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29Just leave it like that.
0:15:29 > 0:15:30Anyway.
0:15:31 > 0:15:34I should have done the bloody wallpaper.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36I'll be back in a minute.
0:15:46 > 0:15:47Be all right.
0:15:52 > 0:15:53Oh, shit.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59I think an artist has to live with an artist, because I don't think
0:15:59 > 0:16:02people understand artists because, you know,
0:16:02 > 0:16:06not many people understand why anybody would do this.
0:16:11 > 0:16:17I suppose we've got used, working here over 20/30 years,
0:16:17 > 0:16:24to giving each other space when you need it and then other times,
0:16:24 > 0:16:28having a conversation about something when you need it.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31Sometimes that works fine, other times,
0:16:31 > 0:16:33it could be a bit of tension there.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36So there's a sort of sensitivity,
0:16:36 > 0:16:39I suppose, and also a kind of a practice
0:16:39 > 0:16:42and experience of knowing how a person makes art and when
0:16:42 > 0:16:46they need to be interrupted and when they don't need to be interrupted.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49Sometimes, I like being interrupted.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52- You can't tell...- He doesn't often interrupt me and I want him to.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55Sometimes we work next door to each other in the two studios, so if I'm
0:16:55 > 0:17:00drawing, for example, in my studio, I find it difficult to work quietly.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02- Oh, God, he's noisy. - Occasionally, that's fine.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04Sometimes...
0:17:04 > 0:17:07Even if he's just doing a drawing, he's as noisy as anything.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09He just bangs, clatters and drops things.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12I drop paper and break the charcoal and...
0:17:12 > 0:17:14He won't put...
0:17:14 > 0:17:18He won't go like, there's a spoon, he'll just go, ker-chum
0:17:18 > 0:17:19with everything.
0:17:19 > 0:17:24Like, make sure it's on the table, type of thing. It's all right.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26I'm quite quiet, aren't I?
0:17:26 > 0:17:27You're very quiet, painting.
0:17:27 > 0:17:29It's surprising.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32It's weird, you'd think I'd be hurling the paint and be all emotional.
0:17:32 > 0:17:34Well, it's just the scale...
0:17:34 > 0:17:37I suppose I'm emotional, but I'm not noisy with it.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40Yes, you work quietly and calmly, I would say.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42Intense, kind of...
0:17:42 > 0:17:46And those intense moments is why I probably walked out of that studio.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49Because the intense moments are very brief.
0:17:49 > 0:17:53It's a short period of time that you can really concentrate like that.
0:18:12 > 0:18:16We felt a bond with Wales, I suppose because my father's Welsh,
0:18:16 > 0:18:19though I never met him until I was 38.
0:18:19 > 0:18:20He was from Ceredigion.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23- Your mother lived in Llanerchaeron. - Yes, Llanerchaeron.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26And we had been coming up since I was 18, you see.
0:18:26 > 0:18:29And you had made paintings about Wales at St Martins.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32- Not much. No, I never painted about Wales, actually.- Oh, right.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35No, no, that was Scotland.
0:18:37 > 0:18:39Right.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41Wait...
0:18:41 > 0:18:43That's better light.
0:18:50 > 0:18:52Well, the mirror is getting very covered.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55Yeah, I should really clean it.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58I suppose I just use it as a sort of talisman, really.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01I'm just looking at myself, various aspects like the eyes,
0:19:01 > 0:19:07where you get the red here in the eye and then light shining on it
0:19:07 > 0:19:11and relationship of the light hitting the face at different angles...
0:19:11 > 0:19:15It's not like I'm looking under a microscope card.
0:19:15 > 0:19:16I'm getting a bit older.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18Anyway, so...mm - think up.
0:19:29 > 0:19:30It's weird.
0:19:30 > 0:19:34I can't rally explain what it's like cos it's not reality
0:19:34 > 0:19:37and it's not a likeness I'm after.
0:19:43 > 0:19:48And there's not even a person...
0:19:48 > 0:19:52it's just an essence of something
0:19:52 > 0:19:56which I recognise in some way, subconsciously.
0:19:56 > 0:20:02You're trying to simulate a kind of, um, essence of living-ness,
0:20:02 > 0:20:03if you like.
0:20:11 > 0:20:12It can be magical...
0:20:14 > 0:20:15..or it can be a struggle.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23In a way, you're almost taking away that conscious brain,
0:20:23 > 0:20:25that kind of consciousness of your head.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06'Are you looking at the picture, or yourself?'
0:21:06 > 0:21:08- I'm looking at the picture. - 'Why do you do that?'
0:21:08 > 0:21:11- To see it back-to-front.- 'Why?'
0:21:11 > 0:21:12So I can see it freshly.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16So I can see it out of context.
0:21:20 > 0:21:21'Why does that help?'
0:21:22 > 0:21:24- To see it out of context?- 'Hm.'
0:21:24 > 0:21:28Er... Because you want to see how...
0:21:31 > 0:21:33It's difficult to explain, really.
0:21:33 > 0:21:37Surprise yourself, look at it in a way that...
0:21:41 > 0:21:43Difficult to explain why, really.
0:21:45 > 0:21:46Erm...
0:21:48 > 0:21:51I'm just wondering if I should leave it for a minute.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59There's something there that I like.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01I like the vulnerability of the head.
0:22:01 > 0:22:06I quite like the kind of perplexed look in that persona of her.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11But, you know, I don't know.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16And then I'll do another figure, I think.
0:22:22 > 0:22:23This is my space.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28This is my brain space, if you like.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34In a way, it's like a very calm place
0:22:34 > 0:22:37in which to do disturbing paintings.
0:22:40 > 0:22:42'Do people see them as disturbing?'
0:22:43 > 0:22:45I think people might.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47They might not.
0:22:47 > 0:22:48Do you find them disturbing?
0:22:50 > 0:22:51'A little bit, some of them.'
0:22:54 > 0:22:58Everybody brings what they want to it, hopefully.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02They're quite open enough to make it
0:23:02 > 0:23:06somebody else's story or...
0:23:06 > 0:23:09Not story, but you know, interpretation.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11A lot of people would probably squirm from them.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14I think probably a lot of people would either loathe them
0:23:14 > 0:23:17or get something back from them, hopefully.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19Erm...
0:23:19 > 0:23:22But you know, if there's one person out there that...
0:23:22 > 0:23:25gets something back from them, then...
0:23:25 > 0:23:27That's not why I do it, do I?
0:23:27 > 0:23:30I wouldn't do it for that reason - to get praise or reformation,
0:23:30 > 0:23:31I don't...
0:23:31 > 0:23:36You want to almost...upset people sometimes.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39- 'Why?'- Upset the apple cart.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42Well, why would I want to do nice paintings which is going to make
0:23:42 > 0:23:47people feel happy and reaffirm their sense of everything being nice?
0:23:47 > 0:23:51I mean, I'm not into that, I'm more into sort of being,
0:23:51 > 0:23:56creating a disturbance in what I do.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59I'm more interested in making somebody feel...
0:24:00 > 0:24:02..either empathise or uncomfortable.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04I don't...
0:24:04 > 0:24:06It's not my problem. I just do what I do.
0:24:09 > 0:24:11And I think artists are often shaman, in a way,
0:24:11 > 0:24:15they deal with things that other people shy away from.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19But you turn pain or tragedy
0:24:19 > 0:24:21or experience or suffering
0:24:21 > 0:24:24or something like that into something creative.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31It's a fantastic thing to be able to paint, really.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33I mean, I love it.
0:24:33 > 0:24:35I really love painting.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39I really love coming in here, and I feel very edgy
0:24:39 > 0:24:41when I'm not painting.
0:24:41 > 0:24:46I'm not a very good person to live with when I'm not painting.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48I was a good mother because I had my painting.
0:24:48 > 0:24:53Because I fulfilled myself and my kids never felt that
0:24:53 > 0:24:55I was frustrated because I had to look after them.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57I've always felt that...
0:24:58 > 0:25:00..it's extremely important as a human being
0:25:00 > 0:25:02to fulfil yourself, man or woman.
0:25:05 > 0:25:06Is it raining?
0:25:06 > 0:25:09Oh, can I just put my raincoat over my head?
0:25:09 > 0:25:11If you don't mind.
0:25:13 > 0:25:14It's a bit wet.
0:25:34 > 0:25:36- Glass of wine?- Go on, then.
0:25:36 > 0:25:38Shall we have a glass of wine? Why not?
0:25:50 > 0:25:52Cheers.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57I went over there and mixed a whole lot of black, thinking
0:25:57 > 0:26:00I was going to do the circles, and I ended up doing a figure.
0:26:00 > 0:26:04I think it's interesting that the flowers have disappeared for a bit.
0:26:08 > 0:26:10That's good.
0:26:12 > 0:26:16So the exhibition, put in your diary - 15th November is
0:26:16 > 0:26:19the opening of the exhibition in Aberystwyth.
0:26:19 > 0:26:22Yup.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24No. I know.
0:26:24 > 0:26:28I know. Anyway, Mum, I'll talk another time.
0:26:28 > 0:26:29Maybe the weekend -
0:26:29 > 0:26:32come over for a nice roast dinner or something on Sunday?
0:26:32 > 0:26:34OK. God bless, Mum.
0:26:34 > 0:26:36Lots of love to Nev.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42You've got a big streak of red across your...trousers.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44Where'd I get that from?
0:26:44 > 0:26:46Can't think!
0:26:46 > 0:26:47Can't think.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53I'm just going to have a look at my painting, I think.
0:26:53 > 0:26:54Oh, this door's stuck.
0:27:00 > 0:27:01'Why do you paint?'
0:27:04 > 0:27:05Make sense of the world.
0:27:05 > 0:27:07Um...
0:27:07 > 0:27:10It's just something I do, really.
0:27:10 > 0:27:11I've done it so long now,
0:27:11 > 0:27:14I can't remember why I did it in the first place.
0:27:14 > 0:27:17Um...
0:27:17 > 0:27:21It's just my form of expression, you know.
0:27:47 > 0:27:49Mm.
0:28:11 > 0:28:12Think I'll leave it now.
0:28:37 > 0:28:39Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd