0:00:02 > 0:00:04Hello and welcome to this very special programme.
0:00:04 > 0:00:05- I'm Ricky.- And I'm Leah.
0:00:05 > 0:00:07Now, we're holding a debate and this is your chance
0:00:07 > 0:00:09to have your say on one of the biggest issues
0:00:09 > 0:00:11that affects your lives - bullying.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15We know it's an issue that lots of you worry about.
0:00:15 > 0:00:17It was something that I struggled with when I was younger,
0:00:17 > 0:00:21so, over the next 15 minutes, we'll be sharing stories
0:00:21 > 0:00:24and asking some big questions.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27This is Bullying - The Newsround Debate.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34APPLAUSE
0:00:35 > 0:00:39A very, very warm welcome to you at home and to everyone here today.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43We've got 100 children with us right now to try and help us
0:00:43 > 0:00:46work out the best way to stop bullying.
0:00:46 > 0:00:51Yes, you have an important job today to vote on some big questions.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53So, let's kick off, then.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56The first question, have you ever been bullied?
0:00:56 > 0:00:58Grab your pads and vote now.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06So, the results are in, let's take a look.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08In this room, out of 100 of you,
0:01:08 > 0:01:1072% of you said
0:01:10 > 0:01:12you had been bullied.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16OK. So, that means 28% of you
0:01:16 > 0:01:20haven't been bullied in this room.
0:01:20 > 0:01:21I'm quite surprised by that.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23It's a big number, isn't it?
0:01:23 > 0:01:26Quite a lot of people in this room are admitting to being bullied.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29OK, but the most important question and why we're here today
0:01:29 > 0:01:34is the vote on, is it more important to punish or help a bully?
0:01:34 > 0:01:38But we'll be voting on that at the end of this debate,
0:01:38 > 0:01:40but to help us find a decision,
0:01:40 > 0:01:42we will be hearing from two girls
0:01:42 > 0:01:45who have dealt with their bullies in a very different way.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47Yeah, let's hear from one of those girls right now.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50Her name is Kia, she's 14 years old
0:01:50 > 0:01:52and she says she wasn't happy
0:01:52 > 0:01:54with the way her bullying was handled.
0:01:54 > 0:01:55Let's hear her story.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59I think bullies should be punished,
0:01:59 > 0:02:02because I was bullied lots at school and it made me feel
0:02:02 > 0:02:03everyone hated me.
0:02:03 > 0:02:0817 girls gathered round me in a big circle.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12She kicked me, she punched me, I was petrified.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14'No-one told her to stop.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16'They just stood there chanting her on.'
0:02:16 > 0:02:18They should have been punished as well,
0:02:18 > 0:02:21because people actually videoed it on their phone.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23I felt so worthless
0:02:23 > 0:02:25'that people was watching me
0:02:25 > 0:02:26'get attacked like I was.
0:02:26 > 0:02:30'The video was on social media, it's gone all over the world.
0:02:30 > 0:02:34'Every time someone put the video up, it made me feel worse and worse.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36'I had to block loads of people.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39'They wasn't backing me up saying, "She should have been punished."
0:02:39 > 0:02:43'It was just, like, "Lol" and, "She got what she deserved."
0:02:44 > 0:02:47'It upsets me that she's still not said sorry.'
0:02:47 > 0:02:51The punishment for my bully was three days' exclusion.
0:02:51 > 0:02:53'The police had been round.'
0:02:53 > 0:02:54I feel like I'm the one that's being punished,
0:02:54 > 0:02:56because I've had to move schools, not her.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59I think if she got expelled, she would have had to move
0:02:59 > 0:03:03'to a different school and I think bullies need to be punished.'
0:03:04 > 0:03:06So that was Kia's story.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09Very brave to share that with us. Kia's here today.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12I know you've got some questions that you want to put to our experts.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15But I'll quickly introduce them to everybody.
0:03:15 > 0:03:16We have David Warburton,
0:03:16 > 0:03:18a politician who looks at bullying
0:03:18 > 0:03:20and then you report that back to the Government
0:03:20 > 0:03:23and advise them how to tackle the issue.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25- You also used to be a teacher. - I did, that's right.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29We're also going to be talking to top policewoman Olivia Pinkney,
0:03:29 > 0:03:31who looks at serious issues that affect children
0:03:31 > 0:03:33and helps with internet safety too.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35Thank you very much for coming in today.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38So, Kia, over to you with your questions.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41Why are bullies allowed to stay at school?
0:03:41 > 0:03:44I think it depends what they've done and, I think, in your case
0:03:44 > 0:03:47having a three-day suspension wasn't really very much at all,
0:03:47 > 0:03:48and am I right in thinking
0:03:48 > 0:03:50that you had to leave the school in the end?
0:03:50 > 0:03:52- Yeah.- Which doesn't seem in any way fair, does it?
0:03:52 > 0:03:55Because you were the victim twice over.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57But I do think that it should be about helping them as well,
0:03:57 > 0:03:59not just about punishing them.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01We've got to see why they did what they did
0:04:01 > 0:04:04and try to persuade them not to do it again.
0:04:04 > 0:04:05Why can't the police get involved
0:04:05 > 0:04:07when bullying happens on school grounds?
0:04:07 > 0:04:10The police are always here to look after people in need,
0:04:10 > 0:04:12but there are also lots of other people who can better help.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14The most important thing is that it stops
0:04:14 > 0:04:18and the most important thing is that the person who's harmed by it
0:04:18 > 0:04:21gets the support and help so that it does stop.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24And sometimes the police are just at the most extreme end of that,
0:04:24 > 0:04:27if you like, and there are many, many better people.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30Sometimes that's someone in school, sometimes that's a parent or carer
0:04:30 > 0:04:32who you know really well who are much better placed
0:04:32 > 0:04:33to help than the police.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35Thank you very much, Olivia and David,
0:04:35 > 0:04:37we'll be coming back to you throughout this show.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39Ricky, over to you.
0:04:39 > 0:04:40Yes, I know the audience here
0:04:40 > 0:04:41have got lots of questions and opinions.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43I'm going to start with you.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45What's your name and how old are you?
0:04:45 > 0:04:46I'm Daniel and I'm 11 years old.
0:04:46 > 0:04:48Daniel, I want to know from you, what do you think,
0:04:48 > 0:04:51do you think bullies should be helped or should they be punished?
0:04:51 > 0:04:54I think they should be punished, because what they're doing is wrong
0:04:54 > 0:04:57and they need to learn that what they're doing
0:04:57 > 0:05:00can have serious consequences on somebody else's life.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02You've got a strong opinion, haven't you?
0:05:02 > 0:05:04And in what way do you think they should be punished?
0:05:04 > 0:05:07I think they should be deprived from going to certain areas
0:05:07 > 0:05:10and have privileges taken away from them.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12And have you been affected by bullying?
0:05:12 > 0:05:15Yes, I've been affected for about three years.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18OK, all right, and, also, I'm going to be talking to Celee now.
0:05:18 > 0:05:21- Tell us how old you are. - I am nine years old.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24Do you think bullies should be helped or should they be punished?
0:05:24 > 0:05:28I think they should be helped and punished, because first they
0:05:28 > 0:05:32need to understand what they've done and how it can hurt the other
0:05:32 > 0:05:35person, how it can make a consequence on someone else's
0:05:35 > 0:05:38life and what the consequences are on them.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41And then if they keep on doing it, then they should be punished.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43Some great opinions, thanks very much, guys.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46Right, now, let's hear from Sundas, who's with me right now,
0:05:46 > 0:05:50she's 15 and found another way to deal with her bullies.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54She believes that they should be helped. Let's find out why.
0:05:56 > 0:06:00I think that the bullies shouldn't be punished, they should be helped,
0:06:00 > 0:06:02'because when I was being bullied,
0:06:02 > 0:06:04'I got really scared.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06'I know how painful it is, but'
0:06:06 > 0:06:08it's the same for the bullies too.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10They might have been doing it for a reason, they
0:06:10 > 0:06:13'said that they didn't like me,'
0:06:13 > 0:06:15they felt stupid when I was in the class with them.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17'I was scared to tell anyone.
0:06:17 > 0:06:22'I thought I could leave my bullies behind, but I was wrong.'
0:06:22 > 0:06:24They found me on social media, they said to me
0:06:24 > 0:06:27that they didn't like me, they didn't want me to come to school,
0:06:27 > 0:06:31they would push me down the stairs, they just wanted to see me unhappy.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34I didn't have any friends, I was alone.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37I was just totally terrified.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43My teacher suggested me that I should go and meet the bullies
0:06:43 > 0:06:47face-to-face, so that I could tell them that they hurt me so much.
0:06:47 > 0:06:51I told them that it's making me upset, don't do it.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54And they said that they were sorry about what they did,
0:06:54 > 0:06:56they were jealous of me, they wanted revenge.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00They were bullied in the past in their primary schools.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03'I felt good that they realised what their mistake was.'
0:07:03 > 0:07:05All of their lives they would regret it,
0:07:05 > 0:07:09so it's better not to punish them, just help them.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13Again, Sundas, thank you very much for sharing your story.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15I suppose it wasn't really easy coming face-to-face
0:07:15 > 0:07:16with your bully.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18I know you've got a couple of questions too.
0:07:18 > 0:07:19Now's your chance.
0:07:19 > 0:07:24Why can't every kid meet their bully face-to-face the way I got to?
0:07:24 > 0:07:26I think that what happened to you was fantastic.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28You must have had a very good teacher there.
0:07:28 > 0:07:29And I wish that could always happen.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32If they can understand that there's somebody there behind, getting hurt,
0:07:32 > 0:07:35then very often you find that they're unhappy or they've been
0:07:35 > 0:07:37bullied in the past and that's why they're doing it,
0:07:37 > 0:07:39so meeting and talking to them can really sort things out.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42Is there not a way of making sure that all schools do this, though?
0:07:42 > 0:07:44I think that we need to start with teacher training.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47They only get a very small amount of time spent on this subject
0:07:47 > 0:07:51out of all their years of training and I think we need to bump that up.
0:07:51 > 0:07:53And that's the kind of thing I'd like to be helping with.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57Should kids like me be told how to block or report bullying online?
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Anything that happens online can feel really painful, can't it?
0:08:00 > 0:08:02It can get right to the heart of your private space.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04And the social media companies do have buttons,
0:08:04 > 0:08:06don't they, for blocking?
0:08:06 > 0:08:09But what I'd always say is always tell an adult that you trust.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12That's where the help can really come and can take away
0:08:12 > 0:08:14- a lot of the power from the bullies. - Thank you very much.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17Time to find out what the audience think. What about you?
0:08:17 > 0:08:19My name is Rebecca, I'm 12.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22And I think the bullies should be helped,
0:08:22 > 0:08:25because most bullies take out their anger on other people
0:08:25 > 0:08:29and their jealousy on other people, which would lead to the bullying.
0:08:29 > 0:08:30When we talk about punish,
0:08:30 > 0:08:32it does sound like such a harsh word,
0:08:32 > 0:08:34what types of things are you thinking about?
0:08:34 > 0:08:36If you tell the child not to do something,
0:08:36 > 0:08:39otherwise they would be punished,
0:08:39 > 0:08:42they won't not do it, because they think it's wrong,
0:08:42 > 0:08:46but they would do it because they're afraid of being punished.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48OK, very interesting stuff there. Anyone else?
0:08:48 > 0:08:49What about you, what's your name?
0:08:49 > 0:08:52My name is Charles and I think bullies should be helped,
0:08:52 > 0:08:55because they may be unhappy at home,
0:08:55 > 0:08:57then they should get help at school.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01But that still doesn't give them a right or an excuse
0:09:01 > 0:09:03to upset other people.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05OK, so really split at the moment, Ricky.
0:09:05 > 0:09:09This is your last chance, everyone, to grill our guests,
0:09:09 > 0:09:10David and Olivia.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12And, Kia, I just want to come back to you,
0:09:12 > 0:09:16because the video of your bullying, it went up online,
0:09:16 > 0:09:20around the world, really fast and I know you have a question.
0:09:20 > 0:09:22Why couldn't the video be taken down sooner?
0:09:22 > 0:09:25A lot of that relies upon the social media companies
0:09:25 > 0:09:28and their pace and speed they're able to do that
0:09:28 > 0:09:29and willing to do that, actually,
0:09:29 > 0:09:32so I think you're right to ask that question and to keep asking it.
0:09:32 > 0:09:33How can we improve that, though?
0:09:33 > 0:09:36I think it's something that if everyone shouts about it
0:09:36 > 0:09:39and that will create the momentum for the companies
0:09:39 > 0:09:40to change their minds.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43There's a huge amount of money in social media companies
0:09:43 > 0:09:45and they do need to know that the public want them to behave
0:09:45 > 0:09:48in a certain way and this is a really great place to start.
0:09:48 > 0:09:52Some of the kids who like these nasty comments or who share
0:09:52 > 0:09:53these bullying videos online,
0:09:53 > 0:09:57does that mean that they are also bullies?
0:09:57 > 0:09:58Daniel, I want to ask you that.
0:09:58 > 0:10:04I know that a lot of people do do that and I think they are like
0:10:04 > 0:10:08bullies, basically, because they're sharing on something that's
0:10:08 > 0:10:12happened in real life and it's not very nice to know that
0:10:12 > 0:10:15everyone around the world might see your issues.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18And, Celee, what do you think about this?
0:10:18 > 0:10:20Yes, I definitely think it makes you a bully,
0:10:20 > 0:10:23because that's basically posting something.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27If you were the one who is actually bullying the person physically
0:10:27 > 0:10:31or recording that, that's basically a different type of bullying,
0:10:31 > 0:10:33which is cyber bullying, and I think that's worse.
0:10:33 > 0:10:35Let's talk about cyber bullying in more detail.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38David, how can we prevent them from doing it in the first place?
0:10:38 > 0:10:41We need to talk to kids when they're very young and we need to say
0:10:41 > 0:10:44to them, "This is wrong behaviour," that there is a victim,
0:10:44 > 0:10:47and that starts with personal and social education at school
0:10:47 > 0:10:49that should cover this regularly, it should cover this much more
0:10:49 > 0:10:51seriously and it doesn't at the moment.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54And I also think we need to put pressure on social media companies
0:10:54 > 0:10:57to say, "You're responsible for what's up there.
0:10:57 > 0:10:58"If somebody's unhappy with it,
0:10:58 > 0:11:01"then you've got to think about taking it down."
0:11:01 > 0:11:04We did ask several social media companies whether they would like
0:11:04 > 0:11:05to take part in today's debate,
0:11:05 > 0:11:08but none of them were able to come.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11OK, Sundas, I know you've got another question.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Why hasn't every school got the same kind of anti-bullying policies?
0:11:14 > 0:11:17Because every city, every school seems to have different
0:11:17 > 0:11:19kind of policies.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22I wish they all had the same kind of policy as your school had,
0:11:22 > 0:11:24but each school, they are independent and they want to have
0:11:24 > 0:11:25their own policies,
0:11:25 > 0:11:28but what we need to do is help them and help the teachers, help the
0:11:28 > 0:11:31head teachers to understand the better ways that they could be doing
0:11:31 > 0:11:34things if they're not already doing them in those ways.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36So it's about educating teachers
0:11:36 > 0:11:37as much as it is educating children.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39So, over in this corner, Olivia,
0:11:39 > 0:11:42I know there's an important question that Charles wants to ask you.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45- Fire away, Charles. - So, why is bullying not a crime?
0:11:45 > 0:11:48- Should cyber bullying be a crime? - Bullying can be a crime.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51But what's important is the behaviour is wrong
0:11:51 > 0:11:53and I don't like that behaviour any more than you do
0:11:53 > 0:11:56and not everything we don't like is a crime.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58So, whether it's a crime or not isn't really the point.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01What does matter is the behaviour and the harm it causes
0:12:01 > 0:12:03and getting that behaviour to stop.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06Now, all week on the Newsround website,
0:12:06 > 0:12:09people have been sending in their comments about this issue.
0:12:09 > 0:12:11Louis in Cornwall thinks that...
0:12:17 > 0:12:19Ben, who's 12, he says...
0:12:23 > 0:12:25Now, though, it's the time we've all been waiting for,
0:12:25 > 0:12:27it's time to vote again.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29We've heard both sides of the story, haven't we?
0:12:29 > 0:12:35So, is it more important to punish or help a bully?
0:12:35 > 0:12:37Vote now.
0:12:42 > 0:12:43And the results are in,
0:12:43 > 0:12:44let's take a look,
0:12:44 > 0:12:46so 30% of you in this room
0:12:46 > 0:12:49think bullies should be punished.
0:12:49 > 0:12:54OK, so that means 70% of you
0:12:54 > 0:12:56think that bullies need help.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01So, only a few of you in here think they should be punished.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03- Interesting nonetheless.- Hm.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05Let's hear from you, Olivia, what do you make of that?
0:13:05 > 0:13:07I think people in this room are very sensible,
0:13:07 > 0:13:09I think they've got a really good grasp
0:13:09 > 0:13:11of what is a really difficult subject.
0:13:11 > 0:13:13What's important if someone's bullied is they get help.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16Often there's something that makes a bully behave as they do,
0:13:16 > 0:13:19so if that can be stopped and they can be given the help they want,
0:13:19 > 0:13:21then they'll stop doing it forever, which would be great.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23So understanding the bully a bit more.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26- David, what about you? - It's a bit of both, isn't it?
0:13:26 > 0:13:27We should punish the people for doing wrong,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30but we should teach them how to do right, and that's what...
0:13:30 > 0:13:32I think that's exactly what the results show.
0:13:32 > 0:13:33Thank you very much, David.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37Now, guys, you were not the only ones taking part in a vote today.
0:13:37 > 0:13:41For the past week, 2,400 children across the country
0:13:41 > 0:13:45were voting on the CBBC website and, I guess,
0:13:45 > 0:13:48it gives us a rough idea of what children across the country
0:13:48 > 0:13:49might be feeling about this,
0:13:49 > 0:13:52and we can tell you that the votes, they're in.
0:13:52 > 0:13:58So, 47% said bullies should be punished.
0:13:58 > 0:14:03OK, so that means that 53% of voters on the CBBC website
0:14:03 > 0:14:05thought that bullies should be helped.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08So, that's very interesting, that's just over half of the people
0:14:08 > 0:14:10who think they should receive help.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12So, let's find out what the audience think.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15Over here, is there anyone...? How about you?
0:14:15 > 0:14:16I think bullies should be helped,
0:14:16 > 0:14:19as they might be having problems of their own at home.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22It might not be their fault, they might just be stressed
0:14:22 > 0:14:24and they want to take it out on someone else.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26But just because they've got problems of their own,
0:14:26 > 0:14:28they shouldn't just be let off the hook,
0:14:28 > 0:14:30I think they should be punished as well, but also helped.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32Thank you so much.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35And, also, thanks to Sundas and Kia for sharing.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38You've been very brave to share your stories
0:14:38 > 0:14:41and everyone here for helping us tackle an issue
0:14:41 > 0:14:44we know that really matters to all of you.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Yes, and we've looked at just some ways to tackle bullying
0:14:47 > 0:14:48in the near future.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51If you're a bully and you've been watching this,
0:14:51 > 0:14:52you might think twice about your actions.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55If you're being bullied, then make sure you speak up,
0:14:55 > 0:14:58because the quicker you speak up, the quicker it can be sorted out.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02Thanks to everyone in this room today and thanks for watching.
0:15:02 > 0:15:04- Thanks for watching. - Goodbye.- Bye-bye.