0:00:00 > 0:00:02- Good evening. Your name, please. - Good evening.
0:00:02 > 0:00:05The first heat your chosen subject was answering questions
0:00:05 > 0:00:06before they were asked.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09This time you have chosen to answer the question before last each time.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12- Is that correct?- Charlie Smithers.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15They just lifted off the page.
0:00:15 > 0:00:16And flung itself at you.
0:00:16 > 0:00:18Stephen Hawking. I ain't bothered.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21People think that making people laugh is easy.
0:00:21 > 0:00:23And if everyone had to get up and make people laugh,
0:00:23 > 0:00:28they would realise it is actually quite difficult sometimes.
0:00:28 > 0:00:33# We like trucking If you don't like trucking... #
0:00:33 > 0:00:38They're a crucial part in the sort of shape and history of comedy.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41Know what I mean? Oh-ho-ho. Really.
0:00:45 > 0:00:47We would say, "Oh, here's a punchline coming."
0:00:47 > 0:00:49Or we'd stand around and sort of say, "There's no punchline,
0:00:49 > 0:00:52"who's got the punchline?" And silly things like that.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55It's just so depressing. All right, so other men have got larger...
0:00:55 > 0:00:58Plums?
0:00:58 > 0:01:01Really without meaning to, we just lucked into television.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04It just happened for us. And it was sketch comedy that did it.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26Hello, good evening and welcome.
0:01:26 > 0:01:30The first sketch show I ever saw was soon after the war
0:01:30 > 0:01:34and it was performed by a concert party called the Fol De Rols
0:01:34 > 0:01:37who toured the smaller south coast resorts.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41Which in turn, underlines the fact that for over 60 years,
0:01:41 > 0:01:45the sketch show has been at the heart of British comedy.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48Countless stars made their debuts in sketches and skits
0:01:48 > 0:01:51before moving on to greater things.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54And many of the nation's favourite comedy shows
0:01:54 > 0:01:57started life as short sketches.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01The Two Ronnies, Morecambe and Wise, French and Saunders - all of them
0:02:01 > 0:02:06built comedy careers which sprang from the sketch show format.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08But over the years,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11sketch shows have both waxed and waned in popularity.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13And over the next hour,
0:02:13 > 0:02:16we will be asking if in the era of the stand-up,
0:02:16 > 0:02:21the sketch show can once again regain its special place
0:02:21 > 0:02:24in the pantheon of British comedy.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27The sketch show has been with us since the earliest days
0:02:27 > 0:02:32of television but it was not invented by TV producers.
0:02:32 > 0:02:36It was invented by the Victorian music hall.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39The London Palladium was a place where Michael Grade
0:02:39 > 0:02:42got his first taste of top-flight entertainment.
0:02:44 > 0:02:48How old were you when you were first aware of theatres
0:02:48 > 0:02:51and attending theatres and maybe glimpsing a sketch or something?
0:02:51 > 0:02:54Well, I used to come to this very place
0:02:54 > 0:02:57and sit just along there from where you are
0:02:57 > 0:03:00from about the age of six or seven.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04There was an opening night every week and I used to love the comedians,
0:03:04 > 0:03:07the laughter, you know, the packed theatre.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10The laughter rolling down here was amazing.
0:03:10 > 0:03:16And sketches originated in the theatre really, then radio,
0:03:16 > 0:03:19then television. It all began with the theatre, didn't it?
0:03:19 > 0:03:24The business of sketches were a staple of the variety theatre
0:03:24 > 0:03:28and if you got a great sketch, you could make a living just doing
0:03:28 > 0:03:32that sketch 12 times a week, round and round the country forever,
0:03:32 > 0:03:34which people like Rob Wilton did,
0:03:34 > 0:03:37Lucan and McShane, Old Mother Riley, they had a sketch
0:03:37 > 0:03:41and they played all over the country for 20 years doing that sketch.
0:03:41 > 0:03:45The key thing was it was not used up or consumed by television
0:03:45 > 0:03:47- when everybody saw it. - Certainly not.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50- They could go on doing that sketch.- Yes.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52During the Second World War,
0:03:52 > 0:03:55performers moved from stage to microphone.
0:03:55 > 0:03:58'Ladies and gentlemen, take your seats, please.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01'I know who put that there.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03'Yes, it is that man again!'
0:04:03 > 0:04:07As BBC radio sketch shows were called into action to cheer up
0:04:07 > 0:04:09a war-weary Britain.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13But BBC TV shunned sketches as too lowbrow.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17It took the launch of the independent television in 1955
0:04:17 > 0:04:20to put variety on TV.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23Michael Grade's uncle, Lew Grade, was very much a part of this
0:04:23 > 0:04:28transformation. One of his first signings was Arthur Haynes.
0:04:28 > 0:04:34The key figure in the transition from the music hall to television
0:04:34 > 0:04:37- sketches, in my view, was Arthur Haynes.- Why?
0:04:37 > 0:04:39He was a real product of the music hall.
0:04:39 > 0:04:44He did sketches and he did songs and jokes, a classically great
0:04:44 > 0:04:49music hall performer, great face for TV and he adapted to television
0:04:49 > 0:04:52and the Arthur Haynes Show which ran for years with Nicholas Parsons as
0:04:52 > 0:04:56his stooge, that was the first time
0:04:56 > 0:04:59that sketch shows really hit it very big on television.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05LAUGHTER
0:05:16 > 0:05:18SHE SCREAMS
0:05:18 > 0:05:21RAUCOUS LAUGHTER
0:05:21 > 0:05:23We came from different social backgrounds but we spoke the
0:05:23 > 0:05:28same professional language and we had an intuitive professional rapport
0:05:28 > 0:05:32It starts with a writer, Johnny Speight had some wonderful inventive
0:05:32 > 0:05:34and creative sketches,
0:05:34 > 0:05:38then you have a team that is in tune with the material
0:05:38 > 0:05:41and in tune with each other and a producer who is in tune with
0:05:41 > 0:05:44everybody and that is where the success comes from.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46LAUGHTER
0:05:46 > 0:05:49I say, would you sooner have cheese?
0:05:49 > 0:05:52LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:05:52 > 0:05:55It was a sort of mini variety format.
0:05:55 > 0:05:59Arthur had his start in variety and that is what he liked.
0:05:59 > 0:06:04A quickie sketch, then a guest, a longer sketch, second-half another
0:06:04 > 0:06:07quickie sketch and then another guest and then a major sketch.
0:06:07 > 0:06:12- I say, a lovely fresh morning, isn't it?- Very nice morning, yes.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14Well, good morning.
0:06:14 > 0:06:19Videotape had not even started until mid '60 and it came in
0:06:19 > 0:06:22and then at the wrong time they could not edited so it was all live.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24There will be a few broken legs and a few...
0:06:24 > 0:06:26HE SCREAMS
0:06:26 > 0:06:29Arthur would regularly dry up because he didn't learn the lines properly.
0:06:29 > 0:06:30And we would ad-lib
0:06:30 > 0:06:34and improvise our way out of it, which the audience loved.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38- I thought you wanted a shave. - I changed my mind.- Have you?
0:06:38 > 0:06:41- Yes.- What? I must go...
0:06:41 > 0:06:44I must go...
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Arthur Haynes was a huge hit.
0:06:47 > 0:06:51ITV had arrived with a bang and its mass appeal variety style
0:06:51 > 0:06:55entertainment was stealing millions of viewers from the BBC.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59But in 1960, BBC appointed a new director-general,
0:06:59 > 0:07:03Sir Hugh Carleton Greene. He wanted to go on the offensive.
0:07:03 > 0:07:07One of his decisions was to greenlight a new show that would use
0:07:07 > 0:07:12songs and satirical sketches to hold public figures to account.
0:07:12 > 0:07:17That Was The Week That Was was the first satirical sketch show.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27# That Was The Week That Was
0:07:27 > 0:07:31# The bunnies are here no doubt... #
0:07:31 > 0:07:35Your policy, Henry Brooke, has been
0:07:35 > 0:07:39one of trial and error. Their trials... your errors!
0:07:39 > 0:07:41LAUGHTER
0:07:41 > 0:07:44On behalf of us all, Henry Brooke,
0:07:44 > 0:07:49and particularly of Dr Soblein and Chief Anaharo...
0:07:49 > 0:07:51This Is Your Life.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54And WAS theirs.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57It just shows, if you're Home Secretary,
0:07:57 > 0:07:59you can get away with murder.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02APPLAUSE
0:08:02 > 0:08:04# That Was The Week That Was
0:08:04 > 0:08:06# It's over, let it go... #
0:08:06 > 0:08:10The incredibly versatile Millicent Martin,
0:08:10 > 0:08:14who opened each TW three with a song, but that was not all.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18Audiences loved her virtuoso jazz performances and the programme
0:08:18 > 0:08:21showed off her comic timing
0:08:21 > 0:08:24and helped launch women into sketch shows.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33- 'Ere, Jimmy.- What?
0:08:33 > 0:08:37- Inch a bit close.- What for?
0:08:37 > 0:08:39Inch a bit close. I want to whisper something.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42You don't have to whisper.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45No, I don't want no-one to hear.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47Nobody will hear. Nobody's listening.
0:08:47 > 0:08:51- I don't want to say it out loud. - Don't be daft.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53- No, I don't want to!- Come on, just say it out loud.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56- No, I don't want to. - Say it out loud.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00Your flies are open!
0:09:00 > 0:09:03But the show was always controversial
0:09:03 > 0:09:06and after two series and with a general election looming,
0:09:06 > 0:09:09the BBC decided it was too hot to handle.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13But satire was soon back on the air with
0:09:13 > 0:09:17Not So Much A Programme and The Frost Report which explored social
0:09:17 > 0:09:20attitudes rather than politics.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23Each programme was a series of sketches around a theme.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26- It was live of course.- Yes, it was.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30That was... it didn't worry me so much, or Ron,
0:09:30 > 0:09:31because we'd been used to it,
0:09:31 > 0:09:35but poor old John used to suffer with... and no autocue or anything,
0:09:35 > 0:09:38and you had autocue because it was all last minute.
0:09:38 > 0:09:43- Continuing and developing. - Monologue.- Yes.- CDM!
0:09:44 > 0:09:49One sketch in particular became a comedy and satire classic.
0:09:49 > 0:09:53I look down on him because I am upper-class.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57I look up to him because he is upper-class.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00But I look down on him because he is lower class.
0:10:02 > 0:10:03I am middle-class.
0:10:06 > 0:10:08I know my place!
0:10:10 > 0:10:12I look up to them both.
0:10:12 > 0:10:17But I don't look up to him as much as I look up to him!
0:10:17 > 0:10:20Because he has got innate breeding.
0:10:20 > 0:10:24I have got innate breeding but I have not got any money.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28So sometimes I look up to him.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31I still look up to him,
0:10:31 > 0:10:33because although I have money, I am vulgar.
0:10:35 > 0:10:39But I'm not as vulgar as him. So I still look down on him.
0:10:42 > 0:10:44I know my place!
0:10:44 > 0:10:47I look up to them both.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51But while I am poor, I am industrious, honest and trustworthy.
0:10:51 > 0:10:53Had I the inclination,
0:10:53 > 0:10:55I could look down on them.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57But I do not.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02We all know our place, but what do we get out of it?
0:11:02 > 0:11:05I get a feeling of superiority over them.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08I get a feeling of inferiority from him.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11But a feeling of superiority over him.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15I get a pain in the back of my neck!
0:11:15 > 0:11:17LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:11:20 > 0:11:23With the success of The Frost Report, the BBC saw
0:11:23 > 0:11:27the power of the sketch show and they looked for duos to front them.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32You were really very much involved in getting
0:11:32 > 0:11:34Morecambe and Wise their first break.
0:11:34 > 0:11:39Well, Eric and Ernie had done a television series for the BBC
0:11:39 > 0:11:40when they were very young
0:11:40 > 0:11:44and Eric used to carry the review around in his pocket.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46He said the critic in The Daily Express,
0:11:46 > 0:11:49"Is that a television I see in the corner of my living room?
0:11:49 > 0:11:52"No, it is the box the BBC buried Morecambe and Wise in last night."
0:11:52 > 0:11:54And he used to carry that. And they swore off television,
0:11:54 > 0:11:57said they would never do television again. It was an absolute disaster.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00They changed agents and Billy Marsh, my mentor,
0:12:00 > 0:12:03the great agent who discovered Eric and Ernie and Bruce Forsyth
0:12:03 > 0:12:06and Norman Wisdom, he said you have got to do television
0:12:06 > 0:12:08and he persuaded them to have one more go.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11And he persuaded my uncle Lew at ATV to give them a shot.
0:12:11 > 0:12:17And I was instrumental in moving them from my uncle Lew to the BBC.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21I did that deal with Bill Cotton at the BBC.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35APPLAUSE
0:12:39 > 0:12:46Eric and Ernie had such a sketch shaped a bit in their show
0:12:46 > 0:12:49but not in the way that Ron and I did definite little
0:12:49 > 0:12:53sketches for the start and the beginning with that kind of tag.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57Eric and Ernie worked together and of course they had guests on.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00It was distinctly sketchy-feeling moments with certain people
0:13:00 > 0:13:02like Andre Previn.
0:13:02 > 0:13:07That was a sketch, but Ron and I, as you say, specialised in sketches,
0:13:07 > 0:13:11- which we started, of course, with The Frost Report.- Absolutely.
0:13:11 > 0:13:15- And natural chemistry which flowed from that.- Yes.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18This is one of the first sketches together from The Frost Report
0:13:18 > 0:13:20in 1966.
0:13:20 > 0:13:21Well, when I say frigid,
0:13:21 > 0:13:25- I mean in the same way that I find your sister frigid.- 30-40.
0:13:25 > 0:13:27LAUGHTER
0:13:27 > 0:13:30- Have you seen Margaret at all recently?- Well...
0:13:30 > 0:13:33- Very nice flat she's got. - Oh, very nice flat.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37- Very nice sofa.- Deuce!
0:13:37 > 0:13:39Talking of that sofa,
0:13:39 > 0:13:42you didn't happen to find a pair of shoes of mine, did you?
0:13:42 > 0:13:44First service.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48They wouldn't be a pair of light mauve chukka boots, would they?
0:13:48 > 0:13:50Yes, those are they, yes.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54I think Margaret said something about throwing them in the garbage.
0:13:54 > 0:13:55Advantage, Corbett.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00- So you have seen Margaret recently? - Yes, last week.
0:14:00 > 0:14:06- Well yesterday, actually, for tea. Very good tea.- Very good tea.
0:14:06 > 0:14:07Damned good cedar cake.
0:14:07 > 0:14:11- Damn good cedar cake. - Damn good scones.
0:14:11 > 0:14:16- Damn good scones.- You get a damn good tea.- Damn good tea.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20- Bloody awful breakfast though. - Game, set and match to Corbett.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23- Chemistry is a very important part of sketches.- Yes.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26And the chemistry between you and Ronnie Barker
0:14:26 > 0:14:28was instantly obvious, was instantly there.
0:14:28 > 0:14:31- I don't know what it is, but...- No.
0:14:31 > 0:14:35What was the quality that made you hit it off so well together?
0:14:35 > 0:14:42Well, I suppose, very similar attitudes to material
0:14:42 > 0:14:49and the quality of material and the way it is written and a fondness for
0:14:49 > 0:14:52that kind of writing style
0:14:52 > 0:14:56and both being able to character act a bit.
0:14:56 > 0:15:00I mean, Ron was a really rich character actor.
0:15:00 > 0:15:04I could sort of pretend to be somebody for a minute or two
0:15:04 > 0:15:07but he was, you know, enriching.
0:15:09 > 0:15:13As well as great rapport, the Ronnies had great writers.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16My name is Algernon Crust. Do you write limericks, I trust?
0:15:16 > 0:15:20No, I'm only here for the beer. Just a joke. Just a rhyme and a joke.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22I can't help it. I'm that sort of bloke.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25Just a joke and a rhyme and a jolly good time.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29- What I really came for was a... - Smoke?- No, I won't.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31Please, don't think that I'm rude.
0:15:31 > 0:15:34Smoking is fine if you're in the right mood. I smoke with my food.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37My wife smokes in the nude. As long as it doesn't intrude.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40Have you noticed that little blond tart?
0:15:40 > 0:15:44- Oh, how pretty she is, bless her Aunt.- She's a right little goer.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48- How well do you know her?- Well, she is not a real blonde for a start.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53Just as in the old music halls, The Two Ronnies and
0:15:53 > 0:15:58Morecambe and Wise still had variety acts between their sketches.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02There is a direct line, I think, between The Two Ronnies
0:16:02 > 0:16:06and Eric and Ernie, back to the music hall, really.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10I think Ronnie Corbett and Ronnie Barker might dispute that
0:16:10 > 0:16:13but there is no question in my mind
0:16:13 > 0:16:16that songs and sketches was a staple of the music hall.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19The difference for television, you had to have a new set of material
0:16:19 > 0:16:23every week, whereas in the music hall you have a lifetime career.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25Your sketch was your pension.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28With those looks, I don't think I'd quibble.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32Sketch shows needed a constant supply of funny scripts
0:16:32 > 0:16:37and that meant finding and developing new and talented writers.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40Like Michael Palin and Terry Jones who wrote for The Frost Report
0:16:40 > 0:16:43and then moved on to The Two Ronnies.
0:16:44 > 0:16:49I remember the Hendon sketch that Terry and I wrote, about the party.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52It was one of The Two Ronnies' party sketches and the man saying,
0:16:52 > 0:16:54"Oh, where are you from?"
0:16:54 > 0:16:59I live in a converted monastery in the Outer Hebrides.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02I live in Hendon.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04And it went on like this
0:17:04 > 0:17:08and it was just this man couldn't get past this guy, Hendon,
0:17:08 > 0:17:11"Oh, yes, we've had an exhibition of those in Hendon library."
0:17:11 > 0:17:16And in the end the man gets really fed up and says, "Look, I'll tell you a thing..."
0:17:16 > 0:17:19- Have you seen one of these before? - No, I haven't.
0:17:19 > 0:17:24- Do you know what it is?- No, I don't. - It is a Tibetan prayer shawl.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27- Do you know how I got hold of it? - No, I don't.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31It was given to me by the chief slave girl
0:17:31 > 0:17:34of the high commander of the Tibetan army.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38She was a ravishing beauty with dark hair like a raven's wings.
0:17:38 > 0:17:43During the feast of Rams Itarsi, the all-powerful God of love,
0:17:43 > 0:17:48to whom they sacrifice 10,000 bullocks on the mountainside,
0:17:48 > 0:17:53she crept into my tent, she filled it with a delicious fragrance,
0:17:53 > 0:17:56her tribal rope slipped from her shoulder
0:17:56 > 0:18:00and her dark hair cascaded over her pale skin
0:18:00 > 0:18:02and she climbed into my bed.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04Really?
0:18:06 > 0:18:09She came from Hendon.
0:18:11 > 0:18:15Having gained confidence writing for others, Palin and Jones
0:18:15 > 0:18:19teamed up with John Cleese and his writing partner Graham Chapman.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23Together with Eric Idle and animator Terry Gilliam,
0:18:23 > 0:18:26they decided to do something completely different.
0:18:28 > 0:18:29Monty Python's Flying Circus.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32MUSIC: "The Liberty Bell" by John Philip Sousa
0:18:39 > 0:18:42Was there one moment when you really made a decision you were going
0:18:42 > 0:18:46to go for something that maybe wasn't yet called Monty Python?
0:18:46 > 0:18:50A lot of you had known each other, worked together...
0:18:50 > 0:18:53As you know, because we had all got to know each other
0:18:53 > 0:18:56- on The Frost Report.- That's right.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59Which was a terrific recruiting vehicle for us all.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03John said, "Why don't we get together and do a new kind of show?"
0:19:03 > 0:19:06I don't think we had got
0:19:06 > 0:19:11the actual shape or ethos of the show worked out.
0:19:11 > 0:19:14It's just we all liked each other's sense of humour.
0:19:14 > 0:19:18It was a great gamble - "Why don't we all come together? "Would it work?"
0:19:18 > 0:19:21And we stayed very carefully in our writing partnerships -
0:19:21 > 0:19:24Terry Jones and myself and John and Graham.
0:19:24 > 0:19:29And it evolved over the first few writing sessions that we wouldn't...
0:19:29 > 0:19:31We tried to do something that was different
0:19:31 > 0:19:35so we wouldn't have a musical act in the middle, we wouldn't have
0:19:35 > 0:19:38a guest star or have all these things that a lot of sketch shows...
0:19:38 > 0:19:41That was a convention of sketch shows.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45We'd just have bits and pieces and if sketches didn't work completely,
0:19:45 > 0:19:48let's cut in the middle and go to something else.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55Hello again. Now, here's a little sketch by two boys from London town.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58They've been writing for three years and come up with a little number.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01Here it is. It's called Restaurant Sketch.
0:20:03 > 0:20:09- Aaargh!- No, Mungo! Mungo, never kill a customer.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12Solving the problem of a lack of punch line was
0:20:12 > 0:20:17one of the things that you were given great credit for really
0:20:17 > 0:20:21and it was years before people dared to do punch lines again.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24Yes, I never thought of it like that.
0:20:24 > 0:20:29Certainly we capitalised on our inability to finish a sketch.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32Which was great because a few years before,
0:20:32 > 0:20:34a sketch had to be finished and that was, you know,
0:20:34 > 0:20:37what people remembered - The Two Ronnies' sketches
0:20:37 > 0:20:40and all that had to really round themselves off.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44And they were very skilfully done. You had to tell a little story
0:20:44 > 0:20:46and it had to have a climax to the story.
0:20:46 > 0:20:49But I remember Barry Cryer saying, you know, what did he call it?
0:20:49 > 0:20:53PBTNT. Which was the stock ending at the end of a sketch.
0:20:53 > 0:20:58- Pull back to reveal he has no trousers.- That was it.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00That was PBTRNT. I remember that.
0:21:00 > 0:21:02SCREAMING
0:21:06 > 0:21:10Lucky we didn't say anything about the dirty knife.
0:21:10 > 0:21:11GROANING AND BOOING
0:21:11 > 0:21:13No, no, no!
0:21:13 > 0:21:16Well, there we are then. That was Restaurant Sketch.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20A nice little number. A bit vicious in parts, but a lot of fun.
0:21:20 > 0:21:21But how about that punch line, eh?
0:21:21 > 0:21:25It's interesting that you were still working in pairs,
0:21:25 > 0:21:28- you and Terry and...- Yes. Yeah.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31That was quite important because you felt that you had found
0:21:31 > 0:21:35one other person who you could write with. It was kind of...
0:21:35 > 0:21:38That was a rather delicate, rather special relationship.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40You didn't know whether it would work with anybody else.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42I mean, we did work with each other.
0:21:42 > 0:21:44On Python I wrote with John a bit and all that
0:21:44 > 0:21:47but I found it very different from writing with Terry.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51A bit like going off in the afternoon and cheating on your wife, you know.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54"I'm seeing another writer."
0:21:54 > 0:21:57Oh, you know what I mean? Oh-ho-ho. Really.
0:22:01 > 0:22:06In many ways, the beloved Pythons had reinvented sketch comedy
0:22:06 > 0:22:09but in doing so they almost deconstructed it.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12By mocking the key elements of any sketch -
0:22:12 > 0:22:15the punch line, the catch phrase, even a natural conclusion -
0:22:15 > 0:22:19they left behind a reduced comedy landscape which made
0:22:19 > 0:22:23the later 1970s one of the lows for the sketch show.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27It looked like sketch comedy was fading
0:22:27 > 0:22:30but then a young radio producer
0:22:30 > 0:22:35and a clutch of new talent were about to give it the kiss of life.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45It was a definite idea that things had got a bit predictable, if you like.
0:22:45 > 0:22:48I know you had a lot to do with The Two Ronnies which,
0:22:48 > 0:22:51again, as a young person I adulated and still do.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55It's still one of the great shows, isn't it, the great sketch shows?
0:22:55 > 0:22:58But, you know, The Two Ronnies represented a world which
0:22:58 > 0:23:02people as we were in Not The Nine O'Clock News in our mid-20s
0:23:02 > 0:23:04just simply didn't recognise.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08You know, it was yokels in smocks with three Xs,
0:23:08 > 0:23:12leaning on farm gates, it was people playing shove ha'penny in the pub
0:23:12 > 0:23:15and guys in cravats and blazers at drinks parties.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17None of us lived in that world.
0:23:17 > 0:23:21We lived in the world where people wee-weed in the telephone boxes.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24You know, where if you went to the pub,
0:23:24 > 0:23:27you played Asteroids or Space Invaders, you know.
0:23:27 > 0:23:29And as often in television,
0:23:29 > 0:23:33television often falls behind what is actually happening in the street
0:23:33 > 0:23:36and in popular culture and there was a definite...
0:23:36 > 0:23:39It's one of the great things the BBC used to do -
0:23:39 > 0:23:44it examined its own output and thought, "We can do better than this.
0:23:44 > 0:23:45"We need a jump forward."
0:23:45 > 0:23:48I used to hate Not The Nine O'Clock News
0:23:48 > 0:23:52while I watched it because there was always 17 dodgy minutes
0:23:52 > 0:23:55and maybe 10 good minutes and it was really interesting to me
0:23:55 > 0:23:58cos all I would notice was the 17 dreadful minutes
0:23:58 > 0:24:02and all anyone would talk about the next day were the three good sketches.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06And so it is quite an interesting form in that you can get away
0:24:06 > 0:24:10with a low percentage of excellence and still be thought excellent.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16# I like trucking, I like trucking
0:24:16 > 0:24:20# I like trucking and I like to truck
0:24:20 > 0:24:23# I like trucking, I like trucking
0:24:23 > 0:24:27# If you don't like trucking Tough luck
0:24:27 > 0:24:29# On the road
0:24:29 > 0:24:31# You must be brave and tireless
0:24:31 > 0:24:32# On the road
0:24:32 > 0:24:35# You can listen to the wireless
0:24:35 > 0:24:36# On the road
0:24:36 > 0:24:40# You eat cafe food with pride
0:24:40 > 0:24:43# You can throw it up outside... #
0:24:43 > 0:24:47We put out the first Not The Nine O'Clock News in '79
0:24:47 > 0:24:50and Jimmy Gilbert called me into the office and he said,
0:24:50 > 0:24:54"John, you jammed the BBC switchboard last night.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57"It's a disgrace," he said, "30 telephone complaints.
0:24:57 > 0:25:00"30 telephone complaints. Call yourself a satirist?
0:25:00 > 0:25:02"It should have been 60. Get out!"
0:25:02 > 0:25:06And that was the attitude, you know, which was, you know,
0:25:06 > 0:25:08"We want something cutting edge."
0:25:08 > 0:25:12It was a definite idea that things had got a bit
0:25:12 > 0:25:15sort of predictable, if you like.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18# I like trucking, I like trucking
0:25:18 > 0:25:22# I like trucking and I like to truck
0:25:22 > 0:25:25# I like trucking, I like trucking
0:25:25 > 0:25:30# If you don't like trucking Tough luck... #
0:25:30 > 0:25:35Not The Nine O'Clock News was a very profligate show in terms
0:25:35 > 0:25:40of writers cos it was dominated by the producers not by the writers.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43Python was dominated by the five guys who wrote it
0:25:43 > 0:25:47but Not The Nine O'clock News, hundreds of people wrote.
0:25:47 > 0:25:50To the top of that rose a bunch of people who consistently
0:25:50 > 0:25:52wrote sketches and most of them
0:25:52 > 0:25:55have gone on to produce other work that you know.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58So Andy Hamilton did Outnumbered or David Renwick
0:25:58 > 0:26:01did Jonathan Creek or I did Blackadder.
0:26:01 > 0:26:06So it was a place where people got confident about their ability
0:26:06 > 0:26:10to produce comedy and got known to people who could do comedy.
0:26:10 > 0:26:11# We like trucking
0:26:11 > 0:26:14# If you don't like trucking Tough luck. #
0:26:16 > 0:26:22The '80s became a boom time for alternative comedy and sketch shows.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25Smith and Jones, French and Saunders
0:26:25 > 0:26:28and a couple of Cambridge students
0:26:28 > 0:26:33whose Footlights Revue had gone down a storm at the Edinburgh Festival.
0:26:33 > 0:26:36We did a pilot for Fry And Laurie, I think. We may have just done...
0:26:36 > 0:26:40No, we did do a one-off Christmas special which started it
0:26:40 > 0:26:41and this was 40 minutes, I think,
0:26:41 > 0:26:43which included a parody of Neighbours,
0:26:43 > 0:26:46which no-one had ever done before, cos Neighbours was just started.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50- So you were in there first?- We were in there first and it was largely
0:26:50 > 0:26:53because we had been touring around England,
0:26:53 > 0:26:57and living the life on tour is such that you watch daytime television.
0:26:57 > 0:26:59We had been playing universities
0:26:59 > 0:27:02and we had this kind of big encore which we couldn't film
0:27:02 > 0:27:05which had gone surprisingly well with the audiences
0:27:05 > 0:27:07and they where going, "More, more."
0:27:07 > 0:27:10We were going, "We haven't got any more that's any good."
0:27:10 > 0:27:14So one afternoon we just wrote this Neighbours sketch
0:27:14 > 0:27:18and it went fantastically well because students, of course,
0:27:18 > 0:27:21like us, watched television during the day.
0:27:21 > 0:27:23They were the only people who did and they were astonished.
0:27:23 > 0:27:27We just started by singing the theme tune and the place erupted.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30It's a moment you can never recapture. Such a strange thing.
0:27:30 > 0:27:32That is a strange thing.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36I've been having an affair with you for some time now.
0:27:36 > 0:27:39- What?- It's true.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41You bastard.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43Look, mate, you had to find out sooner or later
0:27:43 > 0:27:46and I'd just rather it came from me, that's all.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49You mean we have been sleeping together all this time
0:27:49 > 0:27:51behind my back?
0:27:54 > 0:27:56I said I'm sorry. I don't know what else I can say.
0:27:56 > 0:28:00The fact is that I was vulnerable and you were there.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03- You leave me out of this. - I said I'm sorry.
0:28:03 > 0:28:06I just don't know what else I can say, mate.
0:28:06 > 0:28:10- Why am I always the last one to know? - It won't happen again, I promise.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13I just wish that if you were going to sleep with me,
0:28:13 > 0:28:15you could at least have done it to my face.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18I'll bear that in mind for next time.
0:28:18 > 0:28:22The truth is, mate, I was confused and slightly bewildered.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27- I'd just discovered that Dernick isn't my real father.- He isn't?
0:28:27 > 0:28:31- Well, then, who is?- I am.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35- Then that must mean that you must be...- Exactly.
0:28:35 > 0:28:39Devlin's half-sister's wife's doctor's cousin's niece.
0:28:39 > 0:28:41Well, then, who the hell am I?!
0:28:41 > 0:28:45I don't know, mate - but it's your round!
0:28:50 > 0:28:52The pilot was a success.
0:28:52 > 0:28:55And a year later, they had their own series.
0:28:55 > 0:28:58A Bit Of Fry & Laurie.
0:29:01 > 0:29:05There were certain things that we thought needed satirising.
0:29:05 > 0:29:06Not politicians in particular.
0:29:06 > 0:29:09You see, there's this idea that topical comedy is satire.
0:29:09 > 0:29:11I don't think it is. I think...
0:29:11 > 0:29:16John Cleese once said that he'd had lunch with an old school friend
0:29:16 > 0:29:18who was an accountant and, embarrassingly,
0:29:18 > 0:29:22the day before he had lunch with him, the Monty Python
0:29:22 > 0:29:25chartered accountant sketch was on air and he thought,
0:29:25 > 0:29:28"Oh, hell, he'll be so annoyed." So he had lunch and the fellow said,
0:29:28 > 0:29:32"I'm loving this Wilfred Peabody Flying Circus thing,
0:29:32 > 0:29:36"it's marvellous." And John said, "Thank you very much.
0:29:36 > 0:29:39"You saw it last night?" He said, "Yes, yes, hilarious."
0:29:39 > 0:29:42He said, "Oh, I thought you might be a bit offended."
0:29:42 > 0:29:43"Offended, why?"
0:29:43 > 0:29:46"Well, going on about how boring it is to be a chartered accountant,
0:29:46 > 0:29:49"how chartered accountant is the most boring, tedious, wearisome
0:29:49 > 0:29:53"thing in the world." And the friend said, "Oh, a misunderstanding.
0:29:53 > 0:29:56"I'm not a chartered accountant, I'm a certified accountant!"
0:29:56 > 0:30:00And as Cleese said, unless you write someone's name, address
0:30:00 > 0:30:03and postcode on the screen, it's always them
0:30:03 > 0:30:06who are being satired, never you, you know?
0:30:06 > 0:30:08Do you like it straight up?
0:30:10 > 0:30:12- What?- Or with ice? - Ice.- Right-o.
0:30:13 > 0:30:15- Cocktail onion?- No, thanks.
0:30:16 > 0:30:20She takes no interest in my friends. She laughs at my...
0:30:20 > 0:30:22- Peanuts?- ..hobbies.
0:30:24 > 0:30:26She doesn't even value my...
0:30:26 > 0:30:28Crinkle-cut cheesy Wotsits?
0:30:28 > 0:30:32..career. You know, it was just so depressing.
0:30:32 > 0:30:36- All right, so other men have got larger...- Plums?
0:30:37 > 0:30:40There's an advantage if you're writing sketches
0:30:40 > 0:30:44for the two of you, two of you writing sketches for the two of you.
0:30:44 > 0:30:48Like with writing for yourself, writing for the twosome
0:30:48 > 0:30:51equally was potent and really worked in that case, with you and Hugh.
0:30:51 > 0:30:56Yes. I mean, if we had said, "We are funny people, please write us
0:30:56 > 0:30:58"some sketches," why would anybody want to do that?
0:30:58 > 0:31:02You'd have to be as good as Rowan Atkinson to get someone
0:31:02 > 0:31:05to write for you, and I never felt I was good as Rowan Atkinson.
0:31:05 > 0:31:07I'll never feel that. But I knew what I could do.
0:31:07 > 0:31:10I knew my limits and I could write for them.
0:31:10 > 0:31:14And Hugh's limits are wider than mine because he can
0:31:14 > 0:31:16sing and move and do all kinds of other things I can't do.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19But nonetheless, that's the huge advantage of writing for yourself.
0:31:19 > 0:31:21I don't know why I bother with women.
0:31:21 > 0:31:24- I'd be better off being a...- Fruit?
0:31:24 > 0:31:27..monk or a hermit or something.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30- At least if I was a...- Fag?
0:31:30 > 0:31:34At least if I was a monk, I wouldn't have two put up with women
0:31:34 > 0:31:37going on and on, they can talk the hind leg off a...
0:31:37 > 0:31:42- Camel?- ..donkey. Trouble is, I couldn't live without women.
0:31:42 > 0:31:44In a monastery, the best you can hope for is a bit of...
0:31:44 > 0:31:46Chocolate Hobnob?
0:31:48 > 0:31:50..peace and spirituality.
0:31:50 > 0:31:54Let's face it, we haven't slept together for years.
0:31:54 > 0:31:55The best I can hope for is a bit of...
0:31:55 > 0:31:57Savoury finger?
0:31:58 > 0:32:01But one of the things that Python discovered,
0:32:01 > 0:32:04and this was from you, you were the influence here, I think,
0:32:04 > 0:32:08and the Two Ronnies, who also flowed out of your talent stream -
0:32:08 > 0:32:11your talent pond, your spawning pond -
0:32:11 > 0:32:15is that, when you have a flow of disconnected sketches,
0:32:15 > 0:32:18you need a desk. You need an anchor.
0:32:18 > 0:32:23You were anchor for TW3 and, funnily enough, in sketch comedy,
0:32:23 > 0:32:26there's something goes wrong if you just have a stream of sketches
0:32:26 > 0:32:30without some regular place to return to, and the Python's first joke
0:32:30 > 0:32:35of that was they would have a desk, but they had the desk on a beach,
0:32:35 > 0:32:36in which Cleese would say,
0:32:36 > 0:32:38"And now for something completely different..."
0:32:38 > 0:32:42They would actually take the metaphor of the desk and make it
0:32:42 > 0:32:45real and put it somewhere surreal, which was a very Python thing to do.
0:32:45 > 0:32:48And that's one of the things we missed - we didn't have a desk.
0:32:48 > 0:32:51In the last series, we kind of had one,
0:32:51 > 0:32:54we had a little sort of conversation lounge where we'd sit.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57So we did these vox pops instead where Hugh and I would dress up
0:32:57 > 0:32:59as members of the street and say,
0:32:59 > 0:33:01as if being interviewed about certain things,
0:33:01 > 0:33:04rather like the people Esther Rantzen interviewed...
0:33:04 > 0:33:06And naturally, she won't let me give her so much as a...
0:33:06 > 0:33:09Good juicy tongue in the back passage.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14..a peck on the cheek.
0:33:15 > 0:33:17I tell you, I tell you...
0:33:17 > 0:33:20The trouble with that woman is that she's a...
0:33:20 > 0:33:24Rather disgusting looking tart that should've been disposed of ages ago?
0:33:24 > 0:33:28Writing is the most agonising thing in the world to do,
0:33:28 > 0:33:31in sketch comedy, is - it's just awful.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34You just want to stab yourself, you meet every day, you try
0:33:34 > 0:33:37and cheer yourselves up, end up watching some horseracing then go,
0:33:37 > 0:33:40"Oh," and you start and you say, "I started something,"
0:33:40 > 0:33:42and Hugh will have a look at it and go, "I'll add it...
0:33:42 > 0:33:45"Look what I've started, it's terrible." And you just...
0:33:45 > 0:33:48"Oh!" But you have to keep at it.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51It sounds awfully complaining, but it is really difficult.
0:33:51 > 0:33:55So the answer to that is to develop a series of characters
0:33:55 > 0:33:57that you can repeat.
0:33:57 > 0:34:01The 1990s saw a series of shows use the technique that Stephen
0:34:01 > 0:34:03just mentioned there.
0:34:03 > 0:34:07To devastating effect, what's more. Both Harry Enfield
0:34:07 > 0:34:12and then The Fast Show had the same cast of characters each week.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15And, of course, each character had their own catchphrase.
0:34:15 > 0:34:20In particular, in The Fast Show, you essentially got nothing new,
0:34:20 > 0:34:23the same characters, which were brilliant.
0:34:23 > 0:34:26The coughing guy, who just couldn't help coughing.
0:34:26 > 0:34:30The country gent who was in love with his farmer.
0:34:30 > 0:34:32And the guy who opened his shed and said,
0:34:32 > 0:34:35"This day, I've been mostly..." - something or other silly.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38And they were just... the same running gag every week.
0:34:38 > 0:34:40This was nothing new, though.
0:34:40 > 0:34:44The catchphrase had dominated radio shows during and after the war.
0:34:44 > 0:34:48There was Rob Wilson's "The day war work broke out,"
0:34:48 > 0:34:51and Ken Platt with, "Daft as a brush!"
0:34:51 > 0:34:55and Al Read with, "I thought right, monkey."
0:34:55 > 0:34:59But coming up with a successful catchphrase is not as easy
0:34:59 > 0:35:00as it might seem.
0:35:00 > 0:35:04The thing about a catchphrase, which Bruce Forsyth will tell you,
0:35:04 > 0:35:05is you don't know you've said it.
0:35:05 > 0:35:10- It's the public that decide what is a catchphrase...- Absolutely.
0:35:10 > 0:35:14And "I'm in charge," which was Bruce's Sunday Night At The Palladium
0:35:14 > 0:35:18catchphrase, it came out of his mouth - he had no idea what he'd said
0:35:18 > 0:35:23and his postbag the next week, there was sacks of mail delivered to
0:35:23 > 0:35:27Bruce "I'm in charge" Forsyth and he realised he had a catchphrase.
0:35:27 > 0:35:30I was always astonished when "Hello, good evening
0:35:30 > 0:35:32"and welcome" became a catchphrase, because it was the sort of thing
0:35:32 > 0:35:35you'd say when you walk into a room, normally, you know?
0:35:35 > 0:35:38- But once you've said it, no-one else can say it.- That's right.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40I don't think you can sit down and write a catchphrase.
0:35:40 > 0:35:44I think you can try and, I guess from a marketing point of view,
0:35:44 > 0:35:49people do, in terms of commercials and stuff. But no, the only...
0:35:49 > 0:35:55time I thought about the "Am I bovvered?" was, I was doing it...
0:35:55 > 0:35:57Before we filmed the sketches,
0:35:57 > 0:36:03once they'd all been written, um, before I filmed them,
0:36:03 > 0:36:05I used to try them out in small theatres like the Soho Theatre or
0:36:05 > 0:36:08the Latchmere and places like that
0:36:08 > 0:36:11and I'm pretty sure it was at the Latchmere Theatre with, you know,
0:36:11 > 0:36:14in front of about 30 people, nobody knew who I was at all...
0:36:14 > 0:36:17And I started doing this "Am I bovvered?" thing
0:36:17 > 0:36:19and said it the first time, that was it,
0:36:19 > 0:36:22and then... I hadn't written it in the sketch, it wasn't
0:36:22 > 0:36:25a repetition thing, it wasn't a riff thing and the riff thing came
0:36:25 > 0:36:28by trying it out in front of an audience because I heard them
0:36:28 > 0:36:31sort of pick up on it and I thought in the moment,
0:36:31 > 0:36:33"Oh, shall I push that a little bit?" And I did.
0:36:33 > 0:36:36And then they picked up on it again
0:36:36 > 0:36:41and it really came quite organically out of the audience's reaction.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44- That's absolutely true, absolutely vital, isn't it?- Yeah.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47You can't create catchphrases, they are created for you by the audience.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51Absolutely. And, as they were going out, we heard a few people say,
0:36:51 > 0:36:54"Am I bovvered, am I bovvered?" And you thought, "Oh...
0:36:54 > 0:36:56"Maybe that will... Maybe we should...
0:36:56 > 0:36:59"Maybe I should do that in the actual TV show."
0:36:59 > 0:37:01But it absolutely wasn't my intention.
0:37:01 > 0:37:02We get sent a lot of stuff...
0:37:02 > 0:37:05A couple of weeks after a programme is transmitted, people think,
0:37:05 > 0:37:07"I think I'll sit down and write something."
0:37:07 > 0:37:10And as Little Britain was on the air,
0:37:10 > 0:37:12I used to get lots of sketches sent to me
0:37:12 > 0:37:16by the public with the most extraordinary catchphrases like,
0:37:16 > 0:37:19"Are you going out?" Now, obviously somebody thought,
0:37:19 > 0:37:21"Are you going out?" is a great catchphrase,
0:37:21 > 0:37:25people will say that left, right and centre, they're going to go
0:37:25 > 0:37:27down the shops and people are going to fall over with laughter.
0:37:27 > 0:37:29Well, it's not the phrase itself.
0:37:29 > 0:37:32It's where the phrase comes from and how it's said
0:37:32 > 0:37:34and when it's said.
0:37:34 > 0:37:36During this catchphrase mania,
0:37:36 > 0:37:40one group of women stood out at the very end of the 1990s.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43As the world knows,
0:37:43 > 0:37:47Smack The Pony was of course an all-women enterprise.
0:37:47 > 0:37:52How did that change things from when you had done things
0:37:52 > 0:37:54before that - The Mary Whitehouse Experience, and so on -
0:37:54 > 0:37:56that were not different?
0:37:56 > 0:37:59We decided, when we got together,
0:37:59 > 0:38:01to sort of write it
0:38:01 > 0:38:06and collate material, that we weren't going to do anything about
0:38:06 > 0:38:13diets, sexual politics, periods, or anything to do with women's issues.
0:38:13 > 0:38:15We were just going to do women being funny.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18We just strayed into a different sort of material.
0:38:18 > 0:38:21Because we didn't repeat characters, like normal sketch shows would have,
0:38:21 > 0:38:24and gone, "Oh, I want to see those two,"
0:38:24 > 0:38:28we had no repeat characters, which made material incredibly hard to keep
0:38:28 > 0:38:31fresh and keep writing because we just came up with different people
0:38:31 > 0:38:33all the time.
0:38:33 > 0:38:38Smack The Pony stood out from the crowd in more ways than one
0:38:38 > 0:38:43when it picked up Emmys for the first two series.
0:38:43 > 0:38:48- I'm glad I waxed my bikini line. - Ha! I don't need to bother.- I do.
0:38:48 > 0:38:52Right... Ooh!
0:38:55 > 0:38:58They loved the fact that we were like sassy women.
0:38:58 > 0:39:04They liked the fact that we were strong...women who didn't care...
0:39:04 > 0:39:10I mean, they showed the sketch of me with the enormous merkin,
0:39:10 > 0:39:13bikini, hair coming out of my bikini line, swimming pool sketch,
0:39:13 > 0:39:15to complete silence in the American audience.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21You are actually quite, quite hairy down there, aren't you?
0:39:21 > 0:39:24- What?- A little bit hairy down there.
0:39:24 > 0:39:27I don't think anyone's going to notice a few little wisps.
0:39:27 > 0:39:29'I received the award'
0:39:29 > 0:39:31and said something like,
0:39:31 > 0:39:35"You'll be pleased to know I have shaved tonight," and not a single...
0:39:35 > 0:39:40And I think they found us quite outrageous and bold
0:39:40 > 0:39:43because they hadn't seen women do... Now you've got Bridesmaids
0:39:43 > 0:39:48and women going further with more sort of slapstick and toilet humour.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50But I think we were...
0:39:50 > 0:39:54pretty progressive in our days and they liked the fact that...
0:39:54 > 0:39:56I think the fact that we just looked like normal women.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02But soon, characters
0:40:02 > 0:40:05and catchphrases were back with a bang, with shows like
0:40:05 > 0:40:08Little Britain and Catherine Tate.
0:40:08 > 0:40:12Catherine had earlier appeared in a number of sketch shows,
0:40:12 > 0:40:15but only as a straight man or woman.
0:40:18 > 0:40:22In 2001, my agent said,
0:40:22 > 0:40:26"I think you need to step out of the shadow a little bit and do
0:40:26 > 0:40:31"your own stuff." And I had absolutely no interest
0:40:31 > 0:40:36- in doing that whatsoever. - Really?- No! No, no. Because I...
0:40:36 > 0:40:40I'd trained as an actor, and I hadn't intended to
0:40:40 > 0:40:42particularly do comedy. You know...
0:40:42 > 0:40:46I mean, I loved doing comedy, but I certainly hadn't intended
0:40:46 > 0:40:52to write my own or perform sketches or particularly anything like that.
0:40:52 > 0:40:55'94, I think, I left drama college because I just thought I'd go in
0:40:55 > 0:40:59and get jobs doing theatre work, but all the reps had gone, that was it.
0:40:59 > 0:41:03Anyway, in 2001, I wrote my own Edinburgh show,
0:41:03 > 0:41:05- doing characters.- Several characters?
0:41:05 > 0:41:10Several characters - a couple of them went on to the TV show.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13But because I didn't want to do monologues,
0:41:13 > 0:41:16and this is the difference, I don't particularly like doing monologues.
0:41:16 > 0:41:18I think monologues is hard for...
0:41:18 > 0:41:22They're hard for the performer, very hard on an audience, though.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25There's a lot of pressure on an audience when a character,
0:41:25 > 0:41:27when one person comes out and starts speaking, you know.
0:41:27 > 0:41:33So I thought... But actually, all I had was sort of monologues, really,
0:41:33 > 0:41:35I had these ideas for characters.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38But I thought, "What I'll do, I'll make them scenes
0:41:38 > 0:41:42"and I'll get somebody else to be in the show with me.
0:41:42 > 0:41:47And that's when I started, I suppose, writing sketches.
0:41:47 > 0:41:51Because it was almost like that thing, the venue had been booked,
0:41:51 > 0:41:52the poster had been printed.
0:41:52 > 0:41:56You know, the advert had gone out in the Fringe brochure.
0:41:56 > 0:41:57I had to do this show.
0:41:57 > 0:42:02- And I then found I very much liked it.- Oh, really?
0:42:02 > 0:42:05- Instant?- Yes, I did find it very...
0:42:05 > 0:42:10Because, you know, perfect sketches which give you such great enjoyment
0:42:10 > 0:42:14are like a mini play, you know, even if they are only 30 seconds long,
0:42:14 > 0:42:17they've got a beginning, a middle and an end.
0:42:17 > 0:42:21And there's a tiny little narrative and, um, if you can get
0:42:21 > 0:42:24something people can engage with, brilliant,
0:42:24 > 0:42:25and a big laugh at the end.
0:42:25 > 0:42:30- It's... Really, what's not to like? - Yes, absolutely.
0:42:30 > 0:42:31- Are you Stephen Hawking?- No.
0:42:31 > 0:42:33- Are you Stephen Hawking, sir?- No.
0:42:33 > 0:42:36- Do you wish you were Stephen Hawking?- No.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39When you are at home, right, when you're at home,
0:42:39 > 0:42:41- do you pretend to be Stephen Hawking?- No.
0:42:41 > 0:42:43- Have you got a funny little voice box?- No.
0:42:43 > 0:42:46- Do you bowl about in a little wheelchair?- That is unacceptable.
0:42:46 > 0:42:51- Stop doing it, then. - That... That is enough.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54What I love about sketches, if you go to see a sketch show,
0:42:54 > 0:42:57if you don't like the one you are watching,
0:42:57 > 0:43:00- pretty soon, there will be another one coming up.- Exactly.
0:43:00 > 0:43:02That's the great thing about sketches.
0:43:02 > 0:43:06That is why they always talk about the hit-and-miss ratio.
0:43:06 > 0:43:11Obviously, there are fewer women starring in review
0:43:11 > 0:43:14or sketches, all of that, than men.
0:43:14 > 0:43:17- Is that an advantage? - I think I found it was...
0:43:17 > 0:43:20- of benefit to me.- Right.
0:43:20 > 0:43:24I don't necessarily say it was easier, but I think it's probably...
0:43:24 > 0:43:28you are more noticeable if there are less of you, for sure.
0:43:28 > 0:43:31But on the other side of the coin,
0:43:31 > 0:43:35you can get that label of being funny "for a woman".
0:43:35 > 0:43:39- Yes. - As if comedy is gender specific.
0:43:39 > 0:43:43So you are funny for a woman, which is a terrible thing.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46Having said that, of course, to balance it up, I think
0:43:46 > 0:43:50it was a great advantage to me that there hadn't been
0:43:50 > 0:43:52dozens and dozens of female comics.
0:43:52 > 0:43:55You're lucky I am one of the more reasonable teachers in the school,
0:43:55 > 0:43:57otherwise you would be in a lot of trouble.
0:43:57 > 0:43:59As it is, I'll give you a second chance.
0:43:59 > 0:44:02- F.- Face.- No.- Bothered?
0:44:02 > 0:44:05I ain't even bothered. Look at my face.
0:44:05 > 0:44:08- Look...- I ain't even bothered. Look at my face, periodic table,
0:44:08 > 0:44:11I ain't even bothered. Are you looking at my face? Look, bothered?
0:44:11 > 0:44:14- Bunsen burner, I ain't even bothered.- I am trying...
0:44:14 > 0:44:16Albert Einstein, ain't even bothered.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19Stephen Hawking, "I...ain't...bothered."
0:44:19 > 0:44:23Am I bothered? Look, face, bothered? Bunsen burner.
0:44:23 > 0:44:26Do you go hiking? I ain't...bothered!
0:44:28 > 0:44:32I would stand by my show, my sketch show, as the thing I'm most proud of,
0:44:32 > 0:44:37because it's...you know, it's the thing I most love.
0:44:37 > 0:44:39And it was fantastic to do.
0:44:39 > 0:44:41And also, to get out on stage and make people laugh
0:44:41 > 0:44:45is...intoxicatingly wonderful.
0:44:45 > 0:44:47As you know.
0:44:47 > 0:44:52The downside of it is that sometimes, it's considered...
0:44:52 > 0:44:55It's considered very lowbrow.
0:44:55 > 0:44:59Making people laugh is not considered in any way an artform.
0:44:59 > 0:45:01It's not considered intellectual.
0:45:01 > 0:45:05Because you're making someone laugh, people think it's easy.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08I think people think making people laugh is easy.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11And if everyone had to go off and make people laugh,
0:45:11 > 0:45:15they'd realise it's actually quite difficult sometimes!
0:45:15 > 0:45:17Two hit sketch series -
0:45:17 > 0:45:21Little Britain and The Catherine Tate Show -
0:45:21 > 0:45:26signed off back in 2006 and 2007, respectively.
0:45:26 > 0:45:29And most of the performers and writers we've talked to
0:45:29 > 0:45:34felt there's been a dearth of big-impact sketch shows since then.
0:45:34 > 0:45:39Time to reflect perhaps on what makes a great sketch?
0:45:39 > 0:45:40The thing about sketch comedy is,
0:45:40 > 0:45:42it has to make its mark in three minutes.
0:45:42 > 0:45:46You have to tell the story, you have to set up who it is, you have
0:45:46 > 0:45:48to have a few jokes in the middle
0:45:48 > 0:45:50and at some point very near, you have to signal the fact
0:45:50 > 0:45:52that you're coming to the end of the sketch.
0:45:52 > 0:45:54Of course, as we know, somebody once said,
0:45:54 > 0:45:57"No sketch should last more than 3.5 minutes."
0:45:57 > 0:45:59So in that 3.5 minutes,
0:45:59 > 0:46:03you had to create the whole of the idea about that sketch.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06What is the key to the success of a good sketch?
0:46:06 > 0:46:10- Well, it's...- It's got to be funny, I suppose.
0:46:13 > 0:46:18Yes, like so much comedy, the best comedy is based on character.
0:46:18 > 0:46:22- What is palaeontology? - Yes, absolutely correct.
0:46:23 > 0:46:26What's the name of the directory that lists members of the peerage?
0:46:26 > 0:46:29A Study Of Old Fossils.
0:46:29 > 0:46:30Correct.
0:46:30 > 0:46:34Can you tell when you read a sketch whether it is going to work?
0:46:34 > 0:46:36Yes, the stand-out ones.
0:46:36 > 0:46:39I was looking for some this morning, you know.
0:46:44 > 0:46:47Ronnie sitting at a desk,
0:46:47 > 0:46:51with a notice on the wall saying The Hearing Aid Centre.
0:46:53 > 0:46:56- Is this The Hearing Aid Centre? - Pardon?
0:46:58 > 0:47:02I said, "Is this the hearing aid centre?" "Yes, that's right."
0:47:02 > 0:47:05- I've come to be fitted for a hearing aid.- Pardon?
0:47:05 > 0:47:12Oh, it's immediately funny. I said, "I've come for a hearing aid."
0:47:12 > 0:47:16"Oh, right, do sit down. I'll just take a few details."
0:47:16 > 0:47:19- Name?- Pardon?- Name?
0:47:19 > 0:47:22- Crampton.- Pardon?- Crampton.
0:47:22 > 0:47:25- Oh, Crampton.- Pardon? - I said Crampton.- Yes.
0:47:28 > 0:47:32- A hearing aid, why don't you try one? - No, I've got one.- Pardon?- Pardon?
0:47:32 > 0:47:34- I said pardon. - No, I said pardon.
0:47:34 > 0:47:38Oh, forget it, I'll get a set of new teeth.
0:47:39 > 0:47:42And I walk out! It's a good tag.
0:47:42 > 0:47:45- That's a good tag. That would work. - That's right.
0:47:47 > 0:47:49SHOP BELL RINGS
0:47:49 > 0:47:52Fork handles.
0:47:52 > 0:47:54Four candles.
0:47:54 > 0:47:58If you look at the construction of something like Four Candles,
0:47:58 > 0:48:01which is the classic Two Ronnies sketch, you have a bit of business
0:48:01 > 0:48:05at the beginning, establishing exactly who the characters are.
0:48:05 > 0:48:08The rest of the sketch is playing around with the words,
0:48:08 > 0:48:10and then very clearly, the end is signalled.
0:48:10 > 0:48:12So it's the perfect structure of a sketch.
0:48:15 > 0:48:17Here you are, four candles.
0:48:17 > 0:48:19No, fork handles.
0:48:19 > 0:48:22Well, there you are, four candles.
0:48:22 > 0:48:26No, fork handles. Handles for forks.
0:48:26 > 0:48:29LAUGHTER
0:48:29 > 0:48:34Of course, Four Candles is historically memorable.
0:48:34 > 0:48:39- And who wrote that?- That is Gerald Wiley.- Was it, really?- Yes.
0:48:39 > 0:48:45And, um...he had a letter from a hardware man
0:48:45 > 0:48:47because the first part of the joke
0:48:47 > 0:48:50actually happened to the hardware man.
0:48:50 > 0:48:54A man came in and said he wanted four candles. Handles for forks.
0:48:54 > 0:48:56And that's where it started.
0:48:56 > 0:49:02And from that one chance error, Ronnie developed the whole sketch.
0:49:05 > 0:49:06No, Os.
0:49:09 > 0:49:11Hose? Well, that's...
0:49:11 > 0:49:15Oh, you mean pantyhose? Pantyhose.
0:49:15 > 0:49:20No, no, Os, Os for the gate, Mon Repose. Os.
0:49:22 > 0:49:24- Letter Os.- Letter Os.
0:49:24 > 0:49:29LAUGHTER
0:49:33 > 0:49:37Some belters from the past. But what of the future?
0:49:37 > 0:49:40Why aren't there more sketch shows around at the moment?
0:49:40 > 0:49:42Will the sketch show, for instance,
0:49:42 > 0:49:45be deemed by nervous programme commissioners
0:49:45 > 0:49:48to be too risky?
0:49:48 > 0:49:51You dress somebody up, you build a set for them,
0:49:51 > 0:49:55you go to a location for something that lasts 3.5 minutes
0:49:55 > 0:50:01and the sketch show has possibly ten of those kind of situations.
0:50:01 > 0:50:05So inevitably, they are one of the most expensive areas of television.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09Nowadays, people expect, for example, prosthetics on their characters.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12It's not enough to have a little moustache,
0:50:12 > 0:50:16you have to build a whole face, you have to build a whole body.
0:50:16 > 0:50:20I'm pretty sure that they are not extinct. I'm sure they are not.
0:50:20 > 0:50:24I do think things come in and out of fashion, unfortunately.
0:50:24 > 0:50:27I just think that's the way it is.
0:50:27 > 0:50:29I think there will be a life expectancy, though,
0:50:29 > 0:50:32if people don't stick to what they believe is funny
0:50:32 > 0:50:35and believe is true and believe the audiences will like.
0:50:35 > 0:50:39Because if you keep trying to find a new thing, I think
0:50:39 > 0:50:41that's where we all run into trouble.
0:50:41 > 0:50:43Trying to be too different from something else,
0:50:43 > 0:50:46we don't want to be the same as someone else.
0:50:46 > 0:50:50If you are funny, you are funny, and people, I'm sure, will come to you.
0:50:50 > 0:50:55People do seem to think sketch comedy has come to a sort of end.
0:50:55 > 0:50:58- I'm sure it's not an end. - No, it may...- A lacuna.
0:50:58 > 0:51:02A lacuna. A turning, perhaps, a bend in the river.
0:51:02 > 0:51:06It's a young person's game, comedy,
0:51:06 > 0:51:11and I think more people are drawn to stand-up than they are to review.
0:51:11 > 0:51:13But even as I speak, there will be
0:51:13 > 0:51:16a group of people who've met at university or college,
0:51:16 > 0:51:18somewhere, who'll be planning to go to Edinburgh this year
0:51:18 > 0:51:22who will be noticed, get an award and maybe get, you know,
0:51:22 > 0:51:26like The League Of Gentlemen, there have been so many others,
0:51:26 > 0:51:28Mitchell And Webb. A lot of them double acts
0:51:28 > 0:51:30more specifically, but that's still sketch comedy.
0:51:30 > 0:51:34The trend today is stand-up. That's the new rock 'n' roll.
0:51:34 > 0:51:38People are filling the O2, single comedians standing there
0:51:38 > 0:51:42with a microphone filling the O2 Stadium is extraordinary.
0:51:42 > 0:51:45It's a shame, I really miss sketches.
0:51:45 > 0:51:47There is a hunger for a new sketch show,
0:51:47 > 0:51:51but it does need performers who have that all-round ability
0:51:51 > 0:51:54to act totally different characters one after another,
0:51:54 > 0:51:57make it believable and make it funny.
0:51:57 > 0:51:58The sketch show is vital, really.
0:51:58 > 0:52:00I think the sketch show
0:52:00 > 0:52:03is at the heart of the culture in a very important way,
0:52:03 > 0:52:07much more important than just having a few laughs on a Friday night.
0:52:07 > 0:52:10And it is this, and I have been fortunate enough to be
0:52:10 > 0:52:13involved in two of these kind of shows.
0:52:13 > 0:52:18There needs to be a comedy show that tells 15-year-old boys
0:52:18 > 0:52:21and girls what to think.
0:52:21 > 0:52:23You did it with TW3, I think.
0:52:23 > 0:52:24There is a whole generation of people
0:52:24 > 0:52:27who learned about politics through Spitting Image.
0:52:27 > 0:52:29If you look at Jon Stewart and the Daily Show,
0:52:29 > 0:52:32Stephen Colbert in the States, it's the same thing.
0:52:32 > 0:52:35American kids get their politics from a comedy show.
0:52:35 > 0:52:38They get it accurate, they get it perceptive and they get it funny.
0:52:38 > 0:52:42And that's the thing, that's the sketch show that's really missing,
0:52:42 > 0:52:43the kind of stuff you and I used to do.
0:52:43 > 0:52:45One of the things that really is happening
0:52:45 > 0:52:48is that kids are starting to watch sketches online.
0:52:48 > 0:52:52I do find that. Basically, my 11-year-old and my nine-year-old are
0:52:52 > 0:52:56always dragging me in the direction of something they found online.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59Often, it's a cat fighting a dog.
0:52:59 > 0:53:03But sometimes, it is a, you know,
0:53:03 > 0:53:07funny little sketch from an American and suddenly, they'll find a sketch
0:53:07 > 0:53:11about an American having an argument about some milk in a fridge
0:53:11 > 0:53:14and then they'll find out that guy's done ten sketches,
0:53:14 > 0:53:16then show me his best sketches,
0:53:16 > 0:53:19and the next thing you know, that person has become famous.
0:53:19 > 0:53:23So I've got a feeling that because sketches are the same
0:53:23 > 0:53:27length as pop songs, they may fit perfectly into the Internet.
0:53:27 > 0:53:29- Comedy goes in sort of fashion.- Yes.
0:53:29 > 0:53:32And I think there's a big fashion for mockumentaries now.
0:53:32 > 0:53:35Some of the funniest things I've seen recently have been
0:53:35 > 0:53:38The Thick Of It and 2012, things like that,
0:53:38 > 0:53:42which are marvellously done, but they are acute observation of real life.
0:53:42 > 0:53:44And I think probably there will come a time
0:53:44 > 0:53:47when people get bored of that and will want something else.
0:53:47 > 0:53:50You think the sketch show will come back eventually?
0:53:50 > 0:53:53- It hasn't been that far away. - There's a rhythm in all things.
0:53:53 > 0:53:56People often talk about the golden age of comedy
0:53:56 > 0:53:58and then you go back there and realise
0:53:58 > 0:54:00there were only two good shows at that time
0:54:00 > 0:54:03and then there were two good shows three years later, and later.
0:54:03 > 0:54:07Monty Python was a reaction to That Was The Week That Was, which was
0:54:07 > 0:54:11very intelligent, very satirical, very based in the real world.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14Then Python did something which was
0:54:14 > 0:54:16completely surreal and stupid and chaotic.
0:54:16 > 0:54:19Then, when we came to Not The Nine O'Clock News,
0:54:19 > 0:54:23we did that extremely realistically, based on news, a parody
0:54:23 > 0:54:28of television, because no-one wanted to go down the Monty Python route.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31So I think there's a kind of rhythm to things.
0:54:31 > 0:54:34Somebody will do a really good satirical show soon,
0:54:34 > 0:54:38and then that'll be followed by a big stupid show with
0:54:38 > 0:54:41lots of people dressed as bananas.
0:54:41 > 0:54:45Well, whatever the shape or form they take, I think most of us
0:54:45 > 0:54:48would agree that sketch shows
0:54:48 > 0:54:52are too valuable a form of TV to disappear.
0:54:52 > 0:54:57We need them. And the new talent needs them to cut their teeth on.
0:54:58 > 0:55:02At that point, it's goodnight from me and it's goodnight from them.
0:55:02 > 0:55:06- What do people kneel on in church? - The Right Reverend Robert Runcie.
0:55:06 > 0:55:11- Correct. What do tarantulas prey on? - Hassocks.
0:55:11 > 0:55:15Correct. What would you use a ripcord to pull open?
0:55:16 > 0:55:19- Large flies.- Correct.
0:55:19 > 0:55:23- What sort of a person lived in Bedlam?- A parachute.
0:55:23 > 0:55:26- Correct. What is a jock strap? - A nutcase.
0:55:34 > 0:55:39For what purpose would a decorator use methylene chlorides?
0:55:39 > 0:55:41- A form of athletic sport.- Correct.
0:55:41 > 0:55:44What did Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec do?
0:55:44 > 0:55:46Paint strippers.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49Correct. Who is Dean Martin?
0:55:49 > 0:55:50He's a kind of artist.
0:55:50 > 0:55:55- Yes, what sort of artist?- Um...
0:55:55 > 0:55:58- Pass.- That's near enough.
0:56:00 > 0:56:04- What make of vehicle is the standard London bus?- A singer.
0:56:04 > 0:56:06Correct.
0:56:06 > 0:56:09In 1892, Brandon Thomas wrote a famous long-running English farce,
0:56:09 > 0:56:12- what was it?- British Leyland.
0:56:13 > 0:56:16Correct. Complete the following quotation...
0:56:16 > 0:56:18- BUZZER - I've started, so I'll finish.
0:56:18 > 0:56:21..about Mrs Thatcher, "Her heart may be in the right place, but her..."
0:56:21 > 0:56:25- Charlie's aunt.- Correct...