0:00:02 > 0:00:03I love comedy, I love to laugh,
0:00:03 > 0:00:05I laugh my whole life through.
0:00:05 > 0:00:06CHUCKLING
0:00:06 > 0:00:08It's autumn and, across Britain,
0:00:08 > 0:00:11stand-up comedians are on their pre-Christmas tour.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13I just think it's good to have a laugh.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15For hard-working comics, especially those at the top,
0:00:15 > 0:00:18it can be a lucrative business.
0:00:22 > 0:00:25Michael McIntyre has just played 71 shows,
0:00:25 > 0:00:28ten of them here, at London's 02 Arena.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30You put on Michael McIntyre at the 02.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32It's a bloke with a microphone
0:00:32 > 0:00:34and 12,000 people are paying 30, 40 quid a ticket.
0:00:36 > 0:00:40Peter Kay's last show sold 1.3 million tickets.
0:00:40 > 0:00:44It was the biggest comedy tour in the history of the planet.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46The money is in live.
0:00:46 > 0:00:47No doubt about it.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49This place!
0:00:49 > 0:00:51Look at the bloody size of it!
0:00:51 > 0:00:53For Kay and others like him,
0:00:53 > 0:00:59these 15,000-seater stadiums are now the venues of choice.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03The only thing you could compare Peter's sales to
0:01:03 > 0:01:04were acts like Take That,
0:01:04 > 0:01:08where they've come in and just added show, after show, after show.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11We never thought we'd see that for comedy.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14We've got kind of comedians that are more like rock stars.
0:01:14 > 0:01:15I mean, they look like rock stars.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17I'm a creativist, I like making things
0:01:17 > 0:01:20and I will make as much money as I can to do that.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:01:25 > 0:01:28Big shows also generate money from DVD sales.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33That's if you're not already sick seeing these stand-ups on TV.
0:01:33 > 0:01:35When you stick your hand up and shout, "I'm a comedian!"
0:01:35 > 0:01:37Within five minutes, you've got a gig on TV.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39There's too many comics on telly.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42They'd... I think we need to have a cull, to be honest.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45But funny men didn't always do so well.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47I think for a whole series of Python,
0:01:47 > 0:01:49which was about seven and a half months,
0:01:49 > 0:01:52I think I used to get about £4,000 for everything.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57Frankie Howerd was on a measly 80 guineas for a TV series.
0:01:57 > 0:01:58That's ridiculous.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01Howerd was already a really big star.
0:02:01 > 0:02:02Ooh, missus!
0:02:02 > 0:02:05This is the story of how streetwise managers and agents
0:02:05 > 0:02:08discovered comics working for loose change...
0:02:08 > 0:02:10Can you hear me?
0:02:10 > 0:02:13..and gave them professional careers with an income to match.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15Well, the moment I had an agent,
0:02:15 > 0:02:17my fee...almost doubled.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19Comedy is now a career.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22And it's the agents who make all the moves.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25If you call 20 producers and tell them somebody's good,
0:02:25 > 0:02:26they'll take no notice.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28If they read it in The Guardian that they might be good,
0:02:28 > 0:02:30then, someone might call you.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33Good agents are passionate about their clients,
0:02:33 > 0:02:36they're passionate about the business they work in.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39I do know what people are worth in the marketplace
0:02:39 > 0:02:41and I try and get more than that.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44For comics who make it big,
0:02:44 > 0:02:47there'll always be an agent who can make them bigger.
0:02:49 > 0:02:57This programme contains some strong language.
0:03:13 > 0:03:20You're watching, probably, the world's greatest ever comedian.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23I know, I know.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25It's a sweeping statement.
0:03:25 > 0:03:26AUDIENCE BOOS
0:03:26 > 0:03:28Thank you!
0:03:30 > 0:03:33Are these amateur comedians tomorrow's stars?
0:03:33 > 0:03:35Jo Brand, let's hear it!
0:03:35 > 0:03:37If they are, they'll need to tickle the funny bone
0:03:37 > 0:03:39of a very special someone -
0:03:39 > 0:03:40an agent or manager.
0:03:41 > 0:03:43But what's the difference?
0:03:43 > 0:03:46'Managers are different to agents,'
0:03:46 > 0:03:47but it gets confusing,
0:03:47 > 0:03:50because some agents are managers as well.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53I can tell you are quite excited
0:03:53 > 0:03:56cos I'm a lot thinner and prettier in real life, aren't I?
0:03:56 > 0:03:58LAUGHTER
0:03:58 > 0:04:00Don't panic down there, I'm not going to fall off.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03LAUGHTER
0:04:03 > 0:04:05The difference, to me, seems to be
0:04:05 > 0:04:09that agents are people who sort of protect you legally,
0:04:09 > 0:04:12in the sense that they'll look at your contracts
0:04:12 > 0:04:15and they'll make sure that you're getting A, B and C,
0:04:15 > 0:04:20'whereas, managers will sort of manage your life and your career'
0:04:20 > 0:04:25and that again is dependent on how much you want them to manage you.
0:04:25 > 0:04:26The best piece of advice
0:04:26 > 0:04:27that I had about agenting
0:04:27 > 0:04:30was from the flamboyant figure
0:04:30 > 0:04:32that is Michael Grade.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35He said...he said, "Identify the talent,
0:04:35 > 0:04:38"get hold of the talent, grab their coat-tails and never let go."
0:04:38 > 0:04:39For me the agent,
0:04:39 > 0:04:41the relationship with my agent is massively important.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45I always wanted to join the Navy when I was growing up in Wales.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48I just wanted to go somewhere drier, to be honest!
0:04:48 > 0:04:49LAUGHTER
0:04:49 > 0:04:51'It's an intimate, intimate relationship.'
0:04:51 > 0:04:53It's totally like family.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02A good agent typically gets between ten and 20%
0:05:02 > 0:05:04for negotiating a contract.
0:05:04 > 0:05:09But to get rich in theatres and arenas, they'll need someone else.
0:05:09 > 0:05:10A promoter.
0:05:10 > 0:05:14OK, Nick, so where are we with Mr Eddie Izzard?
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Well, we had a few issues with one of their South African...
0:05:17 > 0:05:20Mick Perrin has promoted stars like Eddie Izzard,
0:05:20 > 0:05:23Lee Evans, Paul Merton and Dylan Moran.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27What's your estimate of the size of crew and number of trucks at this stage or is it too early?
0:05:27 > 0:05:30I can't imagine that it'll be much more smaller than last time round,
0:05:30 > 0:05:32although we do need to be quite careful.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36From intimate clubs to giant arenas,
0:05:36 > 0:05:39Mick can tailor a tour to whatever the artist wants,
0:05:39 > 0:05:41in exchange for a share of the profit,
0:05:41 > 0:05:43and he'll pay for it all upfront.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46It's a very fine dividing line
0:05:46 > 0:05:50between making a profit and not.
0:05:50 > 0:05:52If I start a tour now for next October,
0:05:52 > 0:05:55that means, for the next year, I'm paying out, you know,
0:05:55 > 0:05:58sometimes hundreds of thousands of pounds on something which hasn't happened yet.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01So, essentially, we take the risk and it's tough.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11Ten years ago, Mick Perrin took Eddie Izzard on a world tour.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15In America, tickets worth 35
0:06:15 > 0:06:17were changing hands online for more than 700.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24I mean, I don't think of how much someone's going to make me
0:06:24 > 0:06:26and I know that Eddie kind of feels the same way.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28- It's never money first, we never consider that before we...- But...
0:06:28 > 0:06:32If you see some of the things we've done in the past, you'd understand why that's true.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35But I'd argue you should put money in a close second behind it,
0:06:35 > 0:06:37but your first thing is the project.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40I, I think money is important, you've got to make things pay.
0:06:40 > 0:06:45I am happy to have tried to create my career
0:06:45 > 0:06:49and, obviously, Mick...does...his career as a promoter
0:06:49 > 0:06:51in a way that you do make a profit.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55Making a profit is an essence of life.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58We are here for you, performing at the Edinburgh Fringe 2012.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12Promoters don't always make a profit.
0:07:12 > 0:07:16If an act flops on tour, it's Mick who'll take the hit.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19Undaunted, today, at the Edinburgh Festival,
0:07:19 > 0:07:21Eddie's decided to stick his neck out
0:07:21 > 0:07:24and go into the promoter business himself.
0:07:26 > 0:07:30Their first act is a German stand-up comedian - Michael Mittermeier.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33It is a quiet minefield.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37British is supposed to include Scottish, but some Scottish people don't feel they're British.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39But when I say Britain, is it also Scotland or not?
0:07:39 > 0:07:42Britain is supposed to include Scotland.
0:07:42 > 0:07:43OK.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47Michael Mittermeier!
0:07:47 > 0:07:51Back home in Germany, Michael is bigger than bratwurst.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54But knowing the potential rewards by going global,
0:07:54 > 0:07:56he's testing the market in the UK.
0:07:56 > 0:07:57Guten Abend!
0:07:58 > 0:08:02Please welcome your comedian for tonight, Michael Mittermeier!
0:08:04 > 0:08:06Here in Edinburgh, he is taking it gently,
0:08:06 > 0:08:09playing a series of intimate gigs.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12How can they make it cosy for the German guy?
0:08:12 > 0:08:15How can they make it like I feel like at home?
0:08:15 > 0:08:19So they came up with the idea to build up this bunker.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21LAUGHTER
0:08:21 > 0:08:22Trevor, join us!
0:08:22 > 0:08:26Also in town this month, South African comedian Trevor Noah.
0:08:26 > 0:08:27How are you?
0:08:27 > 0:08:29My mother is a black woman, South African.
0:08:29 > 0:08:31And my father is Swiss, from Switzerland.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Well, you know how the Swiss love chocolate, you know.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36LAUGHTER
0:08:39 > 0:08:42Trevor's also downsized his usual act for Edinburgh.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47Guided again by Mick and Eddie.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52I laugh a lot about his routines, I love his humour,
0:08:52 > 0:08:58so he's a guy I really appreciate when he laughs about my jokes.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00For me, it's amazing to have somebody
0:09:00 > 0:09:01who has gone all over the world
0:09:01 > 0:09:04saying to you, "This is what I found.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06"Please go and watch these guys."
0:09:07 > 0:09:11Can I ask you why you're so excited about these two comics?
0:09:11 > 0:09:12HE LAUGHS
0:09:12 > 0:09:15The word excited is terribly overused.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19Uh... They... They're standing here while I'm saying this.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22Well, I'm very excited about...uh... Tell me your name, quick, quick.
0:09:22 > 0:09:24Which one, the funny one or...?
0:09:24 > 0:09:27And the guy that... The guy from... It's a guy from Belgium
0:09:27 > 0:09:31and a guy from Kenya that have come over here.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34No, well, I don't really want to single out even these two guys,
0:09:34 > 0:09:36cos they will take care of their careers,
0:09:36 > 0:09:38they don't actually need me in this thing.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Michael, he's wanted to come over and do it in English,
0:09:41 > 0:09:45so I said, "Well, you know, I'll back you, I'll encourage that."
0:09:45 > 0:09:48And Trevor, he's one of the few comics in South Africa
0:09:48 > 0:09:49with a mixed black and white audience,
0:09:49 > 0:09:51so I like mixing this thing up,
0:09:51 > 0:09:54cos the melting pot is the only way for the whole world,
0:09:54 > 0:09:55to save the whole world
0:09:55 > 0:09:57and this is me just putting my money where my mouth is.
0:09:57 > 0:09:59- Thanks very much.- Cheers.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01I think there's a quality control there, really.
0:10:01 > 0:10:05And having Eddie's name maybe alongside mine too, to some extent,
0:10:05 > 0:10:07says that there's a certain quality here, so come along and see it.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10Because, otherwise, you're starting cold,
0:10:10 > 0:10:12nobody knows who you are, it'll take a long time.
0:10:12 > 0:10:13We think they're great.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16With Eddie's name on the poster,
0:10:16 > 0:10:18Michael and Trevor
0:10:18 > 0:10:19have two quality backers.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22But to guarantee success here in the UK,
0:10:22 > 0:10:27they might also want to secure a fancy London theatrical agent.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30So who might that be?
0:10:34 > 0:10:36This man was recently voted
0:10:36 > 0:10:39the most influential figure in British comedy.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42You might not recognise the agent Addison Cresswell.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45Addison Cresswell? He is fantastic.
0:10:45 > 0:10:47I have a soft spot for Addison.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50But you will know some of the acts he represents.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52Lee Evans, Jack Dee,
0:10:52 > 0:10:54Michael McIntyre and Alan Carr,
0:10:54 > 0:10:56to name just a few.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59He's a kingmaker and he's good at it.
0:10:59 > 0:11:00Addison's your man.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03Uh... You know... What can I say?
0:11:03 > 0:11:06Addison Cresswell is colourful.
0:11:06 > 0:11:07He's a lovely chap.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10Oh, I love Addison, I'm incredibly fond of him.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12He's incredibly astute.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16- He's good.- His track record speaks for itself.- Yeah.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21At this London theatre, his production company
0:11:21 > 0:11:25regularly puts on one of his biggest successes to date, a TV show.
0:11:27 > 0:11:31For years, stand-up on TV had been either ignored
0:11:31 > 0:11:34or put out in midweek graveyard slots.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36I've been at these meetings
0:11:36 > 0:11:40of the BBC saying that stand-up comedy doesn't work on television.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42Stand-up comedy doesn't work on television,
0:11:42 > 0:11:43doesn't work on television.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46Please welcome your host for tonight,
0:11:46 > 0:11:48Mr Jack Dee!
0:11:50 > 0:11:52In 2004, Live At The Apollo
0:11:52 > 0:11:55started to bring laughter into our front rooms.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58It was less dingy comedy club,
0:11:58 > 0:12:01more shinny floor, Royal Variety Performance.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04Thank you so much! Oh, it's a lovely welcome, thank you very much.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06WOLF WHISTLE
0:12:06 > 0:12:07Ooh, thank you, yeah.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09LAUGHTER
0:12:09 > 0:12:11I remember Addison ringing me and saying,
0:12:11 > 0:12:13"I've just got this commission from the BBC.
0:12:13 > 0:12:17"It's just going to be straight stand-up, exactly what we love,
0:12:17 > 0:12:20"give people a proper platform."
0:12:20 > 0:12:22They kind of ramped up the showbiz element of it,
0:12:22 > 0:12:24'they had bright lights,
0:12:24 > 0:12:28'they had a huge stage, and they had a kind of roaring crowd.'
0:12:29 > 0:12:33They had celebrities kind of down the front who, you know,
0:12:33 > 0:12:35the comics took the piss out of
0:12:35 > 0:12:38and it just moved it up a different level.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40I was told to wear glittery clothes, right,
0:12:40 > 0:12:43cos this is a bit of a showbiz occasion,
0:12:43 > 0:12:45and I just caught sight of myself in the mirror
0:12:45 > 0:12:48and I realised I look like a fairground ride, so...
0:12:48 > 0:12:49LAUGHTER
0:12:49 > 0:12:52Shows like Live At The Apollo
0:12:52 > 0:12:53were really helpful in kind of
0:12:53 > 0:12:55bringing comedy to a generation
0:12:55 > 0:12:58that didn't really realise it was available.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01You know, my personal trainer said if I walk around a bit,
0:13:01 > 0:13:03I'll use up a few calories.
0:13:03 > 0:13:04LAUGHTER
0:13:04 > 0:13:07That proved that there was an appetite from the public for it,
0:13:07 > 0:13:09and I think it was because they'd been starved of it
0:13:09 > 0:13:10for years and years.
0:13:10 > 0:13:11Take care, good night!
0:13:11 > 0:13:15Live At The Apollo was cheap to make and instantly successful.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19The sort of combo that makes TV executives want a spin-off,
0:13:19 > 0:13:21which they got in June 2009.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24'Ladies and gentlemen,
0:13:24 > 0:13:27'please give a big welcome
0:13:27 > 0:13:29'to Michael McIntyre!'
0:13:29 > 0:13:31CHEERING
0:13:31 > 0:13:34The show was named after its star, Michael McIntyre,
0:13:34 > 0:13:38one of the hottest properties in British stand-up today.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40Good evening!
0:13:40 > 0:13:43Michael McIntyre has been writing a joke a day,
0:13:43 > 0:13:47every day since he was a small boy.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49Michael grew up around comedy
0:13:49 > 0:13:50and with comedy,
0:13:50 > 0:13:52it has been his life.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58McIntyre has written of how he struggled in the early days
0:13:58 > 0:13:59to get noticed.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02He's the only person who ever used to say to me,
0:14:02 > 0:14:05"How did you get that, Rhod? How did you get that gig?"
0:14:05 > 0:14:07And at that point, he was simply doing the 20-minute gigs,
0:14:07 > 0:14:09circuit gigs around the country.
0:14:09 > 0:14:15It was very soon after that that he switched, went with Addison and...
0:14:15 > 0:14:17as close as you'll come to overnight success.
0:14:17 > 0:14:18Michael McIntyre!
0:14:18 > 0:14:21CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:14:21 > 0:14:23Not long after changing his agent,
0:14:23 > 0:14:26McIntyre secured his first major TV spot -
0:14:26 > 0:14:29the 2006 Royal Variety Performance.
0:14:29 > 0:14:33Who in their right mind gets stuck in traffic and just goes,
0:14:33 > 0:14:35"Quick! Given me the phone, I must warn the others!"
0:14:35 > 0:14:37LAUGHTER
0:14:37 > 0:14:40"Hello, is that the radio? It's Barry.
0:14:40 > 0:14:41"It's too late for me."
0:14:41 > 0:14:43LAUGHTER
0:14:43 > 0:14:45"Save as many as you can."
0:14:45 > 0:14:47LAUGHTER
0:14:47 > 0:14:49I think there's something forgotten about Michael all the time,
0:14:49 > 0:14:52which is, you know, he gets lots of stick from critics,
0:14:52 > 0:14:55he gets lots of stick from, you know, other comics.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58He is a really hilarious observational comedian.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00He's up there with Jerry Seinfeld
0:15:00 > 0:15:04in terms of his ability to absolutely pinpoint, in a microscopic way,
0:15:04 > 0:15:08generic stuff about ordinary life that you haven't noticed.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11Are you ready for my next guest?
0:15:11 > 0:15:15TV played a big part in Michael McIntyre's rise to stardom.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17And, as agents will tell you,
0:15:17 > 0:15:20it can be a shot in the arm for just about any comic.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22Mr Imran Yusuf!
0:15:22 > 0:15:24'I never thought I'd get on the show, never thought they'd put ME.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27'You know, they'll never put Imran Yusuf'
0:15:27 > 0:15:29on BBC1, on Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31I used to wake up every morning and going,
0:15:31 > 0:15:33"Don't get too excited, it's not happening."
0:15:33 > 0:15:35Hello, guys! My name is Imran Yusuf.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37I've just come back from doing some gigs in America.
0:15:37 > 0:15:39CHEERING
0:15:39 > 0:15:41Fantastic country, loads of fun to travel to,
0:15:41 > 0:15:44especially when you look like me.
0:15:44 > 0:15:45LAUGHTER
0:15:45 > 0:15:49'Being on Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow changed everything for me,
0:15:49 > 0:15:51'practically overnight.'
0:15:53 > 0:15:56I actually went to school in America.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58Completely illegally, but I did go.
0:15:58 > 0:15:59LAUGHTER
0:15:59 > 0:16:03As a comedian, your market value changes after you get a nomination,
0:16:03 > 0:16:06after you've been on Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow.
0:16:06 > 0:16:07It's nice to know that.
0:16:11 > 0:16:13Market value is important to Imran.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16That's because he is aiming high.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19'I want to be bigger than Chris Rock, that's my dream.
0:16:19 > 0:16:21'He's a statement comic, he has something to say.'
0:16:21 > 0:16:23He's more than just a comedian,
0:16:23 > 0:16:25he's like the Malcolm X of stand-up comedy. To me, at least.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27I really love his work.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30Being the next Chris Rock though means working hard.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34Tonight, I'm tripling up, which means I'm doing three gigs in one evening.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37However, right now, we're in a bit of traffic.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41Imran's TV calling card means tonight
0:16:41 > 0:16:45his agent's been able to open three doors for his client.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48'I think a relationship with the agent is very important,
0:16:48 > 0:16:51'because they're handling your business.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54'You've got to build your career with somebody you trust.'
0:16:54 > 0:16:57We've got a plan, we have a business plan.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01And that's what I want to continue working with and take it forward.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08First up, North London,
0:17:08 > 0:17:12where Imran's due to open at The 99 Club, in Islington.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15LAUGHTER
0:17:17 > 0:17:22CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:17:25 > 0:17:27Welcome, welcome. Thank you!
0:17:27 > 0:17:29Well, look at this gorgeous girl band in the front row. Hello!
0:17:29 > 0:17:31LAUGHTER
0:17:31 > 0:17:34'Last year, I think I did 320 gigs.'
0:17:34 > 0:17:39The year before that, 2010, I did 322 gigs
0:17:39 > 0:17:43and the year before that, I did 250 gigs
0:17:43 > 0:17:47and the year before that, I think it was 274 gigs.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50Cos I just put the effort in, I just went out there and gigged as much as I could.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52And that helped me, one, get out there,
0:17:52 > 0:17:54but also develop my craft very, very quickly.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57We saw Jungle Book, you're most definitely in that book, yeah.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59LAUGHTER
0:17:59 > 0:18:01Guys, my name is Imran Yusuf. Peace out, God bless.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:18:03 > 0:18:04After a ten-minute routine,
0:18:04 > 0:18:06the next bit of the business plan.
0:18:08 > 0:18:11Right, done here and to the next one.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14Imran's off to gig number two, at a club in the West End.
0:18:14 > 0:18:18Um... It looks like I'm actually kind of late for my second gig.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21According to these times, I should be at my third gig by now.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24I'm actually closer to the third gig than I am to the second gig.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30Late for this gig, I've got to run.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33Downstairs, at the Big Night Out, they're waiting.
0:18:33 > 0:18:35Please, ladies and gentlemen,
0:18:35 > 0:18:38put your hands together and go crazy for the wonderful Imran Yusuf!
0:18:38 > 0:18:41CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:18:43 > 0:18:46'I've always got to give the audience more than what they've paid for,'
0:18:46 > 0:18:48I've got to give it my best. I have to do that.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50Otherwise, you're ripping people off
0:18:50 > 0:18:54and you're not giving the art form, the craft, any form of respect.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57Guys, my name is Imran Yusuf. Peace out, God bless.
0:18:57 > 0:18:58CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:18:58 > 0:19:03It's now 11pm and the race is on to the final gig,
0:19:03 > 0:19:06at the Comedy Pub, off Leicester Square.
0:19:06 > 0:19:08Imran Yusuf! Here he is!
0:19:08 > 0:19:10CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:19:10 > 0:19:13I want to have kids with really cool, multicultural, double-barrelled names.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15My little son here.
0:19:15 > 0:19:16Mohammed-Dave.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18LAUGHTER
0:19:18 > 0:19:21'You never turn down the opportunity to make money.'
0:19:21 > 0:19:23That's just being lazy.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26My name is Imran Yusuf. Please out, God bless!
0:19:26 > 0:19:28CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:19:40 > 0:19:43Today, the comedy club circuit does big business
0:19:43 > 0:19:46for both comedians and promoters.
0:19:46 > 0:19:47But it wasn't always like that.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58When I think back to '79,
0:19:58 > 0:20:02when there was absolutely nothing in the UK
0:20:02 > 0:20:05that you could say was a comedy club
0:20:05 > 0:20:11and now, 33 years later, there must be at least 500 venues.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13I'm quite pleased and proud of that.
0:20:15 > 0:20:20In 1979, Don Ward was running a strip club in London's West End.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24Then he decided to dabble into comedy.
0:20:26 > 0:20:31We originally started The Comedy Store on £1,000.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34The idea was we'd try it for six weeks.
0:20:34 > 0:20:38If it didn't work, I'd lost £1,000.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41We auditioned on a Saturday morning
0:20:41 > 0:20:44and the first person I auditioned was Alexei Sayle.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47- I'll do you, sunshine.- Any time.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49And I thought, "Thank you, comedy god,
0:20:49 > 0:20:53"this is the first person I've auditioned and this is it."
0:20:53 > 0:20:56They come and put wires in your head, but I don't mind anyway.
0:20:56 > 0:20:57What, me, paranoid?!
0:20:57 > 0:21:01I kicked off my first show and we didn't look back.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04The place was packed.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12LAUGHTER
0:21:12 > 0:21:14I don't like too much applause.
0:21:14 > 0:21:15That's how fascism started.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20Since those early days, Don's moved premises, twice,
0:21:20 > 0:21:22each time to a bigger venue.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27I do have a particular favourite and it's this one,
0:21:27 > 0:21:31which is taken from the door looking out,
0:21:31 > 0:21:36and the queue looks like it goes on for ever into infinity.
0:21:36 > 0:21:37All eager to get in.
0:21:37 > 0:21:43In those days, we held 215 in the Leicester Square Store
0:21:43 > 0:21:47and people would queue up for about three hours
0:21:47 > 0:21:50to be part of that 215.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54Magical days. Great days, great days.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59The great, classic comedians of history.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03You know, people often say to me,
0:22:03 > 0:22:08"Alexei, what is alternative new wave Marxist comedy?"
0:22:08 > 0:22:11And I say, "Sod off, you nosy bastard!"
0:22:12 > 0:22:16In clubs, agents noticed their act
0:22:16 > 0:22:19could only insult an audience 215 at time.
0:22:19 > 0:22:21But there was a place
0:22:21 > 0:22:25where they could insult millions of people all at once - television.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32The comedy club scene was spewing out these new comedians.
0:22:33 > 0:22:36Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, we are the Dangerous Brothers.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39Ha-ha, Dangerous Brothers!
0:22:39 > 0:22:43My name is Richard Dangerous and this is Sir Adrian Dangerous.
0:22:43 > 0:22:47And they put this show on called Friday Night Live,
0:22:47 > 0:22:51which felt very much like a club, but you had turns.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53Good evening.
0:22:53 > 0:22:54These characters became, you know,
0:22:54 > 0:22:58huge figures in the public consciousness.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00Oh, yeah, having a go at myself.
0:23:00 > 0:23:02That shows how socialist I am, all right!
0:23:02 > 0:23:06But television wasn't all good. For the comics and their agents,
0:23:06 > 0:23:10this was a medium that had to be treated with respect.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14The critical caveat you've got to have with television and young talent
0:23:14 > 0:23:17is just to...to take it gently.
0:23:17 > 0:23:21It can burn up people and material very quickly, television.
0:23:21 > 0:23:22Hello, lady, gent, everything.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24A bit like with Saturday Live,
0:23:24 > 0:23:27it allowed people like Harry Enfield to do five minutes of a character
0:23:27 > 0:23:29and make an impression.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31What you don't want
0:23:31 > 0:23:34is suddenly you've got to create six hours of material
0:23:34 > 0:23:37that's going to have to be created in a hurry,
0:23:37 > 0:23:40probably on a budget that is not quite big enough, and then put out there,
0:23:40 > 0:23:44because if it doesn't work, you can crash and burn quite quickly.
0:23:45 > 0:23:49Stand-up on TV also fed back to the club circuit,
0:23:49 > 0:23:53where all kinds of comedians found it easier to get work.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55If you were doing The Comedy Store at the weekend,
0:23:55 > 0:23:57you'd get five gigs.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59So you had one on Thursday, two on Friday, two on Saturday.
0:23:59 > 0:24:02You were getting 200 quid a gig, so that's a grand.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04Then you've got gigs you can slip in in-between,
0:24:04 > 0:24:08so you can get another maybe 100, maybe 150,
0:24:08 > 0:24:11if you've got four gigs in a night.
0:24:11 > 0:24:15So people can make a really good living out of doing that circuit.
0:24:20 > 0:24:23Two up-and-coming comedians making a good living
0:24:23 > 0:24:26were Rob Newman and David Baddiel.
0:24:26 > 0:24:30What was different about us was that we weren't overtly political.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34We were the first generation of "alternative comedians"
0:24:34 > 0:24:38whose interest and attack and voice was not overtly political
0:24:38 > 0:24:43and I think that is probably key to why it grew exponentially
0:24:43 > 0:24:45and commercially at that point.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47Ooo-wee, you bugger.
0:24:48 > 0:24:52On TV, stand-up was now being sold to a hungrier audience.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55In 1990, David Baddiel and Rob Newman,
0:24:55 > 0:25:00together with Steve Punt and Hugh Dennis, got their own series.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03The Mary Whitehouse Experience!
0:25:03 > 0:25:07- FRENCH ACCENT:- Hello, everybody, and welcome, of course, to The Mary Whitehouse Experience.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09Actually, I come from Newcastle-upon-Tyne,
0:25:09 > 0:25:13but one day I took too much amphetamine, et voila, I talk like this.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16And what is more, my arms fell off.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19It was massively important. I think we'd done one series
0:25:19 > 0:25:22and we hadn't even got into the end of that series,
0:25:22 > 0:25:25and me and Rob were booked to do a venue in South London
0:25:25 > 0:25:28and I think it was 900 people. I remember at the time thinking,
0:25:28 > 0:25:30"How are we going to fill a venue with 900 people?"
0:25:30 > 0:25:32And people were queueing round the block for it.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35And that was the first time that I thought, "Oh, it's been a hit,
0:25:35 > 0:25:37"and this is what happens if you have a hit on TV.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39"Blimey. It's brilliant."
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Newman and Baddiel's success was no accident of fate.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49The boys' wider popularity had, to a large degree,
0:25:49 > 0:25:52been orchestrated by their agent.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56I got into managing talent, because
0:25:56 > 0:25:58previous to that I produced plays,
0:25:58 > 0:26:01and the traditional theatre agents would never return phone calls
0:26:01 > 0:26:04to somebody they didn't know. I took a view that basically
0:26:04 > 0:26:06the old school agents really weren't much good,
0:26:06 > 0:26:09there was obviously a gap in the market. I thought you could
0:26:09 > 0:26:12manage comedians like bands and, in fact, in the early '90s,
0:26:12 > 0:26:17the interest from the media was far, far greater than it is now.
0:26:19 > 0:26:21Hoping to exploit this new interest,
0:26:21 > 0:26:24the sharp-suited young Thoday, together with Richard Allen-Turner,
0:26:24 > 0:26:28started managing comedians in the late '80s.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31By 1993, Newman and Baddiel were their biggest act,
0:26:31 > 0:26:36a hit not just on TV but also on the road.
0:26:47 > 0:26:51They became overnight kind of rock stars,
0:26:51 > 0:26:54with teenage girls screaming outside their dressing rooms
0:26:54 > 0:26:56and going to all the gigs
0:26:56 > 0:26:58and screaming and hitchhiking to gigs.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01There was a rather mean story that went around
0:27:01 > 0:27:05that the venues were really pissed off with the bar takings
0:27:05 > 0:27:08because everyone was under 16.
0:27:08 > 0:27:11But the ice cream franchises were always delighted
0:27:11 > 0:27:14because their profits had gone through the roof.
0:27:14 > 0:27:17That was a really popular story on the circuit.
0:27:23 > 0:27:27We blazed a trail, I guess, to some extent,
0:27:27 > 0:27:30financially, because we were touring and filling up big venues
0:27:30 > 0:27:36and selling, initially, videos and then DVDs kind of by the truckload.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38KLAXON
0:27:38 > 0:27:40CHEERING
0:27:45 > 0:27:48I think I've been sold slightly weaker stuff than usual.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51They did five nights at the Apollo and I thought,
0:27:51 > 0:27:54"Hang on a second, you could play Wembley."
0:27:56 > 0:27:59Wembley Arena was built in another era,
0:27:59 > 0:28:02as a swimming pool for the 1934 Empire Games.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07In the '60s and '70s, its 12,500 capacity
0:28:07 > 0:28:10made it the perfect choice for huge rock acts.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15# I'm standing in the rain
0:28:15 > 0:28:18# Can't seem to get along... #
0:28:20 > 0:28:25Now, audaciously, Jon Thoday wanted Newman and Baddiel to fill it.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27I remember Jon Thoday telling me at the time
0:28:27 > 0:28:30that he was going to do this, and we all went, "What?!
0:28:30 > 0:28:33"Baddiel and Newman, Wembley? Are you insane?
0:28:33 > 0:28:37"Wembley? Can you sell it? It won't work. It won't work."
0:28:37 > 0:28:39This is Wembley Arena where tonight
0:28:39 > 0:28:42myself and Robert will perform Britain's largest ever comedy gig.
0:28:42 > 0:28:45It's the culmination of six years of working together,
0:28:45 > 0:28:48from when we were writers on the radio to The Mary Whitehouse Experience
0:28:48 > 0:28:50to the tour we've just done and the TV series,
0:28:50 > 0:28:54and really, I have to say, the whole thing has been a great thing.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56It's been a lot of fun and I've really, really enjoyed it.
0:28:58 > 0:29:00There you go, that wasn't so bad, was it?
0:29:00 > 0:29:02Not too difficult saying all that.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07We were scared that people wouldn't be able to hear
0:29:07 > 0:29:09so we went through a huge amount of rigmarole
0:29:09 > 0:29:11to try and make sure the sound system was OK,
0:29:11 > 0:29:13cos we didn't know whether it was going to work or not.
0:29:13 > 0:29:17And it was very, very terrifying and very exciting.
0:29:17 > 0:29:19CHEERING FROM AUDIENCE
0:29:19 > 0:29:21Seven, six, five, four,
0:29:21 > 0:29:25three, two, one...
0:29:26 > 0:29:30CHEERING
0:29:32 > 0:29:35When they knew, when the audience saw what was about to happen,
0:29:35 > 0:29:38the atmosphere in the room was absolutely electric.
0:29:38 > 0:29:41They were big, big pop stars.
0:29:55 > 0:29:59I went with Sam Mendes. We both went, pretended we were 15-year-olds.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01And it was extraordinary
0:30:01 > 0:30:07because the idea that two young comedians could play Wembley
0:30:07 > 0:30:09just seemed so ludicrous.
0:30:09 > 0:30:12There are too many words for walking.
0:30:12 > 0:30:14Like, sauntering. What's that?
0:30:14 > 0:30:15Is this it?
0:30:19 > 0:30:20Surprising everyone,
0:30:20 > 0:30:23Newman and Baddiel split soon after the Wembley gig.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26But that wasn't the final whistle for Baddiel.
0:30:27 > 0:30:29Abandoning the teenybop market,
0:30:29 > 0:30:32he got interested in the potbellied football market.
0:30:33 > 0:30:36And so did his new partner, Frank Skinner.
0:30:36 > 0:30:40The thing is, I'm not actually that fond of Polish sausage.
0:30:40 > 0:30:41No, but someone will want it.
0:30:41 > 0:30:45Fantasy Football League, the show they made together,
0:30:45 > 0:30:47would be one of the biggest hits of the '90s.
0:30:47 > 0:30:51- Thank you so much for inviting me into your home.- That's all right.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53Good night, everyone.
0:30:53 > 0:30:55'It was in the ether, the whole fanzine thing,'
0:30:55 > 0:30:58and it was the beginning of the rise of the Premier League
0:30:58 > 0:31:00and Sky getting behind football.
0:31:00 > 0:31:04There was a real kind of excitement about football sort of coming back.
0:31:05 > 0:31:09For Perrier Award winner Skinner, things were sparkling.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12The BBC gave him his own chat show.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15Thank you very much indeed for that lovely welcome.
0:31:15 > 0:31:17And then there was this.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20# Three lions on the shirt
0:31:20 > 0:31:25# Jewels remain still gleaming... #
0:31:25 > 0:31:26Together with Baddiel,
0:31:26 > 0:31:30he became Euro '96 cheerleader to the England football team.
0:31:32 > 0:31:36So when it came time to negotiate a new contract,
0:31:36 > 0:31:40it seemed as if Frank, unlike England, couldn't lose.
0:31:42 > 0:31:45On television, if someone can host a show
0:31:45 > 0:31:48and attract audiences to switch on,
0:31:48 > 0:31:52if you're not the BBC, advertisers want to be around your programme,
0:31:52 > 0:31:54it brings money into the channel.
0:31:54 > 0:31:59On the BBC, it's about the sheer volume of people that want to watch the show.
0:31:59 > 0:32:02And competition - it's a free market - there's competition everywhere.
0:32:02 > 0:32:05And I think the agents and the managers said,
0:32:05 > 0:32:08"Well, we don't think our artists are getting paid enough.
0:32:08 > 0:32:12"You're expecting them to host a programme, you're expecting them to write,
0:32:12 > 0:32:15"you're hanging it all on them and we want more money."
0:32:20 > 0:32:24In 1999, it was reported that Skinner's management team
0:32:24 > 0:32:28were discussing a deal worth £20 million.
0:32:31 > 0:32:34I think stars' pay is very kind of emotive to the public.
0:32:34 > 0:32:37In the end, what you have to think about with the star
0:32:37 > 0:32:40is that they are only generally stars for a short period of time,
0:32:40 > 0:32:42and I think that stars are stars for a reason.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46They're very, very special and they can deliver.
0:32:46 > 0:32:50At the BBC, entertainment bosses got wind of the 20 million figure
0:32:50 > 0:32:53and abruptly ended negotiations.
0:32:53 > 0:32:56In this particular case, Jon Thoday was...
0:32:56 > 0:32:58I was not party to the deal, by the way,
0:32:58 > 0:33:02but I presume Jon was asking the BBC to match an offer from ITV
0:33:02 > 0:33:06to make a number of series of Frank Skinner's shows,
0:33:06 > 0:33:09including, I think, a series of Fantasy Football
0:33:09 > 0:33:11and Baddiel and Skinner Unplanned and Frank Skinner's chat show.
0:33:11 > 0:33:14So there was a whole bundle of programmes that he was going to make
0:33:14 > 0:33:17and they were going to cost whatever they were going to cost,
0:33:17 > 0:33:20probably not 20 million. That would have been an exaggeration as well.
0:33:20 > 0:33:23So that's not money going into Frank Skinner's pocket,
0:33:23 > 0:33:25that is programme maker's money.
0:33:25 > 0:33:30And he would been paid well, but certainly nothing like that, for it.
0:33:32 > 0:33:36It seemed, though, that the press had already made their mind up.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39One newspaper voted Skinner the world's greediest man.
0:33:40 > 0:33:44Frank was very, very unfairly dealt with there by the press
0:33:44 > 0:33:48because, in absolute honesty, I don't think I can think of anyone I know
0:33:48 > 0:33:52in the business who is less bothered about money than Frank Skinner.
0:33:52 > 0:33:53Absolutely not bothered about money.
0:33:53 > 0:33:55Jon would have been bothered to get him a good deal
0:33:55 > 0:33:58and Frank would have been interested in making the programmes he wanted to
0:33:58 > 0:34:02make the way he wanted to make them. That quite often involves money.
0:34:02 > 0:34:05The more they invest, the more you think, "They're serious about making the show I want."
0:34:05 > 0:34:08But he would not have been interested in just having loads of money.
0:34:10 > 0:34:14In the end, Skinner walked into the welcoming arms of ITV.
0:34:14 > 0:34:19But the incident caused a lot of soul-searching about the pay of top comedians.
0:34:19 > 0:34:23In a way, I don't think it's the fault of the managers and agents.
0:34:23 > 0:34:29If they ask for it and people are prepared to pay it...
0:34:29 > 0:34:32you know, the end, in a lot of ways.
0:34:32 > 0:34:34I think what you've got to do is you've got to put into perspective
0:34:34 > 0:34:40that when you first start doing stand-up, you work for free.
0:34:40 > 0:34:42Like, nobody gets paid straightaway,
0:34:42 > 0:34:46and if you're very lucky, you'll do your five-minute spot,
0:34:46 > 0:34:51you'll do your ten-minute spot, and you might get paid a couple of quid.
0:34:51 > 0:34:54'And then, what happens is, as soon as you become successful,
0:34:54 > 0:34:56'and people are willing to pay you big money,
0:34:56 > 0:34:59'it's just market forces at work, you know.'
0:34:59 > 0:35:01Good evening, St Albans!
0:35:02 > 0:35:05If people want you, then they'll pay the money,
0:35:05 > 0:35:07and if they don't, they won't.
0:35:11 > 0:35:15The controversy about Frank Skinner's pay blew up in 1999,
0:35:15 > 0:35:18the same year that comedian Ernie Wise died.
0:35:18 > 0:35:20After a lifetime in comedy,
0:35:20 > 0:35:24his will left an estate of just over half a million pounds.
0:35:24 > 0:35:27Compare that to the money today's comics earn
0:35:27 > 0:35:29just from touring and DVD sales.
0:35:29 > 0:35:34In 2011, Peter Kay's estimated take was over 20 million...
0:35:35 > 0:35:38..Lee Evans picked up almost 13 million,
0:35:38 > 0:35:41Alan Carr just under six million.
0:35:41 > 0:35:44And even the then relative newcomer Sarah Millican
0:35:44 > 0:35:47got almost £1.5 million.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57These are certainly big figures and they raise an interesting question.
0:35:57 > 0:36:02Today, comedy historian Oliver Double is hoping to answer it.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05We know that comedians earn an awful lot of money today.
0:36:05 > 0:36:08We know they can earn millions, literally millions of pounds a year.
0:36:08 > 0:36:12But the question is, how does that compare with what people
0:36:12 > 0:36:14used to earn in the past in comedy?
0:36:14 > 0:36:17So what I'm really looking forward to is seeing the actual figures
0:36:17 > 0:36:20and crunching some of those numbers.
0:36:20 > 0:36:23Oliver's hoping to get some of the answers here,
0:36:23 > 0:36:27at the BBC's Written Archives Centre in Berkshire.
0:36:27 > 0:36:31Yes, this is actually it, the BBC's Written Archives Centre.
0:36:31 > 0:36:34Think of it as a TARDIS for historians.
0:36:40 > 0:36:45The archives go back to the very birth of the BBC in 1922.
0:36:45 > 0:36:47Correspondence.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49Contracts.
0:36:49 > 0:36:50Complaints.
0:36:50 > 0:36:52There are plenty of those.
0:36:56 > 0:36:58- This is the box we need.- OK.
0:36:58 > 0:37:01First stop for Oliver, M for Miller.
0:37:01 > 0:37:03Max Miller.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09- That's the file.- Look at that.
0:37:09 > 0:37:11# I'm known as the Cheeky Chappie
0:37:11 > 0:37:12# The things I say are snappy
0:37:12 > 0:37:16# That's why the pretty girls all fall for me... #
0:37:16 > 0:37:18In the 1940s, Max Miller -
0:37:18 > 0:37:20here he is pulling up in his Roller -
0:37:20 > 0:37:23was one of Britain's most popular comedians.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27Miller was said to be hugely wealthy,
0:37:27 > 0:37:29even if he did like to do his own building work.
0:37:33 > 0:37:37Miller was coy about opening his wallet in the pub,
0:37:37 > 0:37:40so Oliver's keen to know just how much was in it.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46There's a really interesting one here.
0:37:46 > 0:37:50What we've got is a telegram dated January 3rd, 1941.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53This is from his agent, Julius Darewski,
0:37:53 > 0:37:55who is in negotiation with the BBC
0:37:55 > 0:37:59for a programme called People's Palace, a radio show,
0:37:59 > 0:38:02and what he's saying is, "In order to do this show,
0:38:02 > 0:38:06"we're going to have to cancel four weeks' work in the theatre."
0:38:06 > 0:38:12His normal salary for appearing in the theatre would be £400 a week,
0:38:12 > 0:38:15which in today's money would be something like £17,000 a week.
0:38:15 > 0:38:16It's quite a lot of money.
0:38:16 > 0:38:21And then just a few days later, on the 8th of January, 1941,
0:38:21 > 0:38:23you find this BBC memo,
0:38:23 > 0:38:27where they talk about how they've negotiated the fee
0:38:27 > 0:38:31and they've got him to negotiate it down to £100 for each engagement,
0:38:31 > 0:38:35which is about £4,400 in today's money.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38They go on to say, "I am assured by his agent
0:38:38 > 0:38:41"that he gets £400 a week on a percentage basis."
0:38:41 > 0:38:44They say, "This figure may be exaggerated
0:38:44 > 0:38:46"but there is no doubt that he earns big money."
0:38:56 > 0:39:00Max Miller did plenty of radio for the BBC,
0:39:00 > 0:39:02but he never really embraced television.
0:39:02 > 0:39:04There were others, though,
0:39:04 > 0:39:07coming out of the music halls of the 1950s,
0:39:07 > 0:39:11who did see that they had a future on TV.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14When did you first discover that you worked well together,
0:39:14 > 0:39:16that there was a kind of chemistry between you?
0:39:16 > 0:39:18When we got married.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21- We realised then.- Yes.
0:39:21 > 0:39:25Er... No, you don't realise you've got a chemistry, it's just...
0:39:25 > 0:39:28You just want suddenly to do this act,
0:39:28 > 0:39:30do this double act, and develop it.
0:39:30 > 0:39:32We lean on each other a lot, you know, that's the thing.
0:39:32 > 0:39:34He's asking some funny questions, isn't he?
0:39:34 > 0:39:38- We're not giving any funny answers, that's the problem. - It's very difficult to answer!
0:39:42 > 0:39:45For their first TV series in 1954,
0:39:45 > 0:39:49Morecambe and Wise were offered 100 guineas per programme -
0:39:49 > 0:39:52in today's money, around £1,200 each.
0:39:55 > 0:40:00Eric and Ernie's agent had demanded 125 guineas.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02But Oliver's found an internal memo
0:40:02 > 0:40:05which shows the BBC just weren't having it.
0:40:08 > 0:40:13They're really not happy with the idea of paying Morecambe and Wise 125 guineas.
0:40:13 > 0:40:15They've justified this
0:40:15 > 0:40:18by looking at what the other acts were getting paid.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20So here we see Jewel and Warriss,
0:40:20 > 0:40:23who were the biggest double act of the day,
0:40:23 > 0:40:26and they were earning 200 guineas for their show,
0:40:26 > 0:40:29which was something like £4,800 in today's money.
0:40:29 > 0:40:32Terry Thomas was on 140 guineas.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35And Frankie Howerd on 80 guineas. That's ridiculous.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37I mean, Howerd was already a really big star.
0:40:37 > 0:40:41It's not a huge amount of money to do a TV series.
0:40:46 > 0:40:50In the end, Morecambe and Wise settled for the 100 guineas
0:40:50 > 0:40:52but the show bombed and for years after,
0:40:52 > 0:40:55the BBC didn't want to know them.
0:40:58 > 0:41:00"Dear Morecambe and Wise,
0:41:00 > 0:41:02"thank you for letting me see the enclosed synopsis.
0:41:02 > 0:41:06"Unfortunately, we just do not have a space available at this moment
0:41:06 > 0:41:08"for this idea, but if an opportunity should arise
0:41:08 > 0:41:10"we will get in touch with you."
0:41:13 > 0:41:16With the future looking bleak, Ernie had an idea.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19What if they changed their agent?
0:41:19 > 0:41:21What they needed was somebody who understood television
0:41:21 > 0:41:24and that man was Billy Marsh.
0:41:24 > 0:41:26He was a very important agent,
0:41:26 > 0:41:29he had a great record in spotting new talent.
0:41:29 > 0:41:31He also worked with Michael Grade,
0:41:31 > 0:41:36who was sort of his apprentice in his early days in show business.
0:41:36 > 0:41:40And within a few months of being with Billy Marsh,
0:41:40 > 0:41:43Morecambe and Wise were all over the TV schedules.
0:41:43 > 0:41:46That included 12 appearances on Sunday Night at the London Palladium
0:41:46 > 0:41:50which was the big show of the time. If you could get onto that, you knew you were getting somewhere.
0:41:57 > 0:42:00Billy Marsh's reinvention of Morecambe and Wise
0:42:00 > 0:42:02was orchestrated to perfection.
0:42:02 > 0:42:05The BBC were now putty in his hands,
0:42:05 > 0:42:10falling over themselves to finally offer the boys a series.
0:42:10 > 0:42:15But it was too late. Marsh was not returning their calls.
0:42:15 > 0:42:20"Dear Billy, I have tried to contact you several times on the telephone without success.
0:42:20 > 0:42:24"Can you please give me an immediate answer as to whether Morecambe and Wise
0:42:24 > 0:42:27"are available to BBC Television to perform in a series of scripts?
0:42:27 > 0:42:28"The matter is now urgent."
0:42:28 > 0:42:31Now, suddenly, they're hot property.
0:42:31 > 0:42:32And that's the power of an agent.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35Billy Marsh made them hot and made the BBC want them.
0:42:39 > 0:42:42Marsh eventually replied a few days later,
0:42:42 > 0:42:46claiming he had no idea the BBC were interested "in these artistes".
0:42:46 > 0:42:51The BBC had blown it and Billy Marsh was well aware of the fact.
0:42:56 > 0:43:00They'd blown it, because Billy Marshall had gone with the opposition,
0:43:00 > 0:43:03in the wily guise of Lew Grade.
0:43:08 > 0:43:12In 1961, Grade gave the boys a second chance
0:43:12 > 0:43:15to make their own series, this time at ATV.
0:43:15 > 0:43:19Their show would play on the commercial channel for seven years,
0:43:19 > 0:43:22before BBC boss Billy Cotton lured them back
0:43:22 > 0:43:25to make programmes for the first time in colour.
0:43:27 > 0:43:31- You'll be telling me next you've heard a voice from the other side.- I have. I have.
0:43:31 > 0:43:33It was Lew Grade, but the money was no good.
0:43:35 > 0:43:39For Eric and Ernie, the 1970s were golden years,
0:43:39 > 0:43:43especially notable for their hugely popular Christmas shows,
0:43:43 > 0:43:45made every year over a six-week period.
0:43:49 > 0:43:52I make the final...basically the final decision on the comedy
0:43:52 > 0:43:56and Ernie is the business part of the act. He does all the business.
0:43:56 > 0:43:59So about the fee tonight, I mean...
0:43:59 > 0:44:04Ten, nine, eight, seven, six...
0:44:05 > 0:44:08Applause, applause, applause.
0:44:08 > 0:44:11APPLAUSE
0:44:19 > 0:44:20Tea, Ern?
0:44:24 > 0:44:26Tea urn!
0:44:26 > 0:44:29That's a belter, that. I haven't done that one for years.
0:44:29 > 0:44:31That's one for the archives, that.
0:44:31 > 0:44:34And that's where it should be - in the archives.
0:44:36 > 0:44:38Oh, look at this. Amazing.
0:44:38 > 0:44:45This is the contract for Morecambe and Wise's 1977 Christmas Show.
0:44:45 > 0:44:48This is an iconic moment in British television comedy.
0:44:48 > 0:44:53It was something like 27 million people tuned in to watch it.
0:44:53 > 0:44:55It's been repeated many times over the years.
0:44:55 > 0:44:59It's known as a sort of high watermark of British light entertainment.
0:44:59 > 0:45:01# Drinks like a dame
0:45:01 > 0:45:04# Ah, ah
0:45:04 > 0:45:06# And nothing thinks like a dame
0:45:06 > 0:45:09# Ah, ah... #
0:45:09 > 0:45:11And... How interesting.
0:45:11 > 0:45:16The engagement fee for that show was £10,000.
0:45:17 > 0:45:21In today's money, that works out at £25,000 each
0:45:21 > 0:45:25for Morecambe and Wise for their 1977 Christmas Show.
0:45:25 > 0:45:27Though if Billy Marsh were around today,
0:45:27 > 0:45:32he'd more than likely be asking for at least twice that price for topline acts.
0:45:33 > 0:45:36You get a much fairer share now as a comedian
0:45:36 > 0:45:38than you used to do 25 years ago.
0:45:38 > 0:45:40And the very reason I got involved
0:45:40 > 0:45:43in setting up an independent production company
0:45:43 > 0:45:44and having some sort of influence
0:45:44 > 0:45:47over how material of clients was exploited
0:45:47 > 0:45:49was to let them have a fair share.
0:45:49 > 0:45:51Having got their fair share,
0:45:51 > 0:45:54Peter Bennett-Jones has also given comedians the chance
0:45:54 > 0:45:56to give something back.
0:45:56 > 0:45:59It's Comic Relief!
0:45:59 > 0:46:04Comic Relief, the charity formed by the comedy business more than 25 years ago,
0:46:04 > 0:46:07has now raised over £800 million.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10The comedy community have been phenomenal in the way they've supported it.
0:46:10 > 0:46:14Nobody gets paid, nobody does it because they think it's going to make them more famous,
0:46:14 > 0:46:17they do it because they want to make the world a better place.
0:46:17 > 0:46:22And so I think it's a phenomenal national achievement, in a way, on all sides.
0:46:22 > 0:46:25It's the comedy business chipping back.
0:46:29 > 0:46:32Remember London's Wembley Arena?
0:46:37 > 0:46:39This is John Drury.
0:46:39 > 0:46:43He was here almost 20 years ago when Newman and Baddiel booked in
0:46:43 > 0:46:45for that first comedy arena gig.
0:46:45 > 0:46:48Fully seated, it's about 10,500.
0:46:49 > 0:46:53Part standing, main capacity is 12,500.
0:46:53 > 0:46:56What was a novelty is now a trend.
0:46:56 > 0:47:00For all arenas, comedy is becoming a key part of the business.
0:47:00 > 0:47:04From 1993 through to 2007,
0:47:04 > 0:47:07I think we averaged one a year.
0:47:07 > 0:47:09But from 2008 to this year,
0:47:09 > 0:47:11we average now eight a year.
0:47:11 > 0:47:16And we see that trend continuing. If anything, it will grow.
0:47:18 > 0:47:22One comic who likes to play here is Michael McIntyre.
0:47:22 > 0:47:25I'll show you the dressing rooms.
0:47:25 > 0:47:30We've got nine down this side of the arena...
0:47:30 > 0:47:33all of varying shapes and sizes.
0:47:33 > 0:47:34Here's a smaller one.
0:47:37 > 0:47:41This was the one that Michael McIntyre used when he came in in 2009.
0:47:41 > 0:47:44It was the first time he'd played the arena. He played six nights.
0:47:44 > 0:47:47The same year, we had Fleetwood Mac playing three nights.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50His version of events was, "I'm doing OK, aren't I?"
0:47:50 > 0:47:53I said, "Yeah, you're double Fleetwood Mac. That's pretty good."
0:47:53 > 0:47:55He liked that very much.
0:47:57 > 0:48:00Playing arenas, though, doesn't just make comics feel good.
0:48:01 > 0:48:05There's not a band, there's not dancers, there's no effects, even.
0:48:05 > 0:48:08It's just a person and a microphone.
0:48:08 > 0:48:12So if you were doing a stadium tour with a person and a microphone,
0:48:12 > 0:48:16then, you know, "We'll put some screens in." It's incredibly cheap.
0:48:16 > 0:48:19So people can make an enormous amount of money very quickly.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25People like Lee Evans, who, in September 2011,
0:48:25 > 0:48:29grossed around £2.5 million over just six nights
0:48:29 > 0:48:32at London's O2 Arena.
0:48:32 > 0:48:34But these gigs aren't for everyone.
0:48:35 > 0:48:40I've done arenas and, for me, that umbilical cord
0:48:40 > 0:48:43that I feel between myself and the audience -
0:48:43 > 0:48:45it might be a weird way of putting it,
0:48:45 > 0:48:48but I feel this massive connection, like a conversation -
0:48:48 > 0:48:51I feel that has gone in an arena.
0:48:51 > 0:48:57I prefer to do more intimate spaces.
0:48:57 > 0:48:59I don't understand why young comics now,
0:48:59 > 0:49:02apart from financial reasons, want to play these huge arenas.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05I kind of feel it's a bit of a pissing contest, you know.
0:49:05 > 0:49:08Because the best of humour is about a kind of intimacy
0:49:08 > 0:49:11and I think you lose that when you have a theatre
0:49:11 > 0:49:13with probably more than about 1,400.
0:49:19 > 0:49:23Another beloved venue for comedians is the Manchester Arena.
0:49:23 > 0:49:25Sarah Hodson is the booker.
0:49:25 > 0:49:27In 2002,
0:49:27 > 0:49:30we had just two sell-out comedy shows.
0:49:30 > 0:49:32In 2011, we had over 30.
0:49:35 > 0:49:38We've had Lee Evans, Russell Howard,
0:49:38 > 0:49:42Frankie Boyle, Michael McIntyre, John Bishop.
0:49:48 > 0:49:50No shortage of acts, then.
0:49:50 > 0:49:52But one man above all owns this place.
0:49:52 > 0:49:54And he's local.
0:49:57 > 0:49:59# When the day is dawning
0:50:00 > 0:50:03# On a Texas Sunday morning... #
0:50:03 > 0:50:06CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:50:06 > 0:50:10Please welcome Peter Kay!
0:50:13 > 0:50:16This was Peter Kay's first appearance in 2005.
0:50:18 > 0:50:22That yellow jacket is a nod to his past life as a steward
0:50:22 > 0:50:26in this very arena, when he'd take home £4 an hour.
0:50:26 > 0:50:29Hello, everybody!
0:50:29 > 0:50:31These seats would have been pushed back,
0:50:31 > 0:50:34so the stage would have been about here.
0:50:34 > 0:50:38So for an arena, and for, you know, 12,000 people,
0:50:38 > 0:50:40the back row is pretty close.
0:50:40 > 0:50:43LAUGHTER
0:50:44 > 0:50:47Me mum's in tonight.
0:50:47 > 0:50:49So I don't have to give her three rings.
0:50:51 > 0:50:54Do ever do that? Give your mum three rings, let her know you're safe?
0:50:54 > 0:50:57After the second ring, she picks it up, so what's the point of that?
0:50:58 > 0:51:02The only thing you could compare Peter's sales to
0:51:02 > 0:51:06were acts like Take That, where they've come in and just added
0:51:06 > 0:51:12show after show after show and people are crazy for tickets.
0:51:12 > 0:51:15We never thought we'd see that for comedy.
0:51:19 > 0:51:21Back on Edinburgh's Royal Mile,
0:51:21 > 0:51:27a thousand wannabes are dreaming of selling out show after show.
0:51:27 > 0:51:29Cynics might say they're headed straight for a job
0:51:29 > 0:51:31at the nearest call centre...
0:51:31 > 0:51:35ALL MOAN
0:51:37 > 0:51:40..but, then, cynics might once have said that about Eddie Izzard.
0:51:40 > 0:51:42My name is Eddie Izzard. It's a rather strange name.
0:51:42 > 0:51:46It's got two Zs in it. It's going on every night.
0:51:46 > 0:51:49I've got a load of details about it. I think it's fun.
0:51:49 > 0:51:51It's an hour and five minutes. It's on tonight.
0:51:51 > 0:51:56Here he is, hustling for business in Edinburgh 22 years ago.
0:51:56 > 0:51:59CROWD: Three, two, one!
0:51:59 > 0:52:01CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:52:04 > 0:52:07- You happy? Ready? - Yeah, I'm fine.- OK.
0:52:07 > 0:52:09Today, Eddie's back in town
0:52:09 > 0:52:11and he doesn't need a monocycle.
0:52:14 > 0:52:17CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:52:19 > 0:52:21CHEERING STOPS
0:52:21 > 0:52:22CHEERING STARTS AND STOPS
0:52:22 > 0:52:28Now a comedy promoter, he's helping two acts new to the UK.
0:52:30 > 0:52:32CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:52:32 > 0:52:35But what does his agent think of him pushing the boundaries
0:52:35 > 0:52:37and doing something different?
0:52:37 > 0:52:39I wouldn't say to somebody,
0:52:39 > 0:52:42"Don't do that, it will be career suicide,"
0:52:42 > 0:52:44unless I really felt it,
0:52:44 > 0:52:48cos their instincts are so good about what they're good at.
0:52:48 > 0:52:50At the beginning, just bed the thing in.
0:52:50 > 0:52:54No problem, don't even think about it.
0:52:54 > 0:52:58It's like you're a test pilot, you're test piloting a new plane.
0:52:58 > 0:53:00'Eddie is his own man.'
0:53:00 > 0:53:03Yes, he has these ambitions. You know,
0:53:03 > 0:53:07he sweeps you up with this incredible enthusiasm, and he'll do it,
0:53:07 > 0:53:09whether or not I put my head in my hands.
0:53:09 > 0:53:11But he's never failed.
0:53:16 > 0:53:20Outside on the unforgiving streets,
0:53:20 > 0:53:24the competition is engaged in a massive poster and leafleting war.
0:53:24 > 0:53:26Improvisational comedy rapper.
0:53:26 > 0:53:28Have you ever heard of him before? No. Go and see him, sir.
0:53:28 > 0:53:30Five-star reviews. Thank you.
0:53:30 > 0:53:34This year at Edinburgh, there were almost 400 comics
0:53:34 > 0:53:37jostling for position, and almost as many agents.
0:53:37 > 0:53:40There's been this explosion of comedy and there's been an explosion of interest
0:53:40 > 0:53:44from the industry, and it has become extremely commercial.
0:53:44 > 0:53:47They've created enough hype around it to make people feel,
0:53:47 > 0:53:49if they're a budding comedian, they have to do Edinburgh.
0:53:49 > 0:53:52A lot of what goes on is not about selling tickets.
0:53:52 > 0:53:56The poster wars are all about making your client get more recognition
0:53:56 > 0:54:00than somebody else's client. And all of that costs money.
0:54:00 > 0:54:03There are phenomenal PR budgets being spent on shows
0:54:03 > 0:54:06that could never be justified by trying to sell the tickets,
0:54:06 > 0:54:08because that's not what they're about.
0:54:08 > 0:54:11They're about trying to position the artist in the industry
0:54:11 > 0:54:13for life beyond Edinburgh.
0:54:23 > 0:54:25Who's next?
0:54:25 > 0:54:30At London's Comedy Store, amateur night is in full swing.
0:54:30 > 0:54:32CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:54:32 > 0:54:36You think the interval's good, wait till you see this. Who's next, Helen?
0:54:36 > 0:54:42This is a bloody contest in which the audience shows little mercy.
0:54:42 > 0:54:43HE SIGHS
0:54:43 > 0:54:47Um... I tried to... I tried to go to the bank the other day.
0:54:47 > 0:54:50So...er...sharks are funny, aren't they?
0:54:50 > 0:54:52One card...
0:54:52 > 0:54:54two cards, three cards.
0:54:58 > 0:55:01'Now everybody's coming here with a plan.
0:55:01 > 0:55:04'They all want to be the next Michael McIntyre.'
0:55:04 > 0:55:06They see this as a career.
0:55:07 > 0:55:08And it is.
0:55:08 > 0:55:10APPLAUSE
0:55:10 > 0:55:11Let me clarify at this point -
0:55:11 > 0:55:13I'm not the guy from The Hangover Part II.
0:55:17 > 0:55:19If I can be on TV, that would be amazing,
0:55:19 > 0:55:22but if I'm literally a paid professional comedian,
0:55:22 > 0:55:24that's all I can ask for, really.
0:55:24 > 0:55:27I really want to just punch through and get to that next level
0:55:27 > 0:55:30where you start making all right money and stuff.
0:55:30 > 0:55:32My main ambition right now with the stand-up
0:55:32 > 0:55:35is to get to the point where I get a set on the Apollo.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38I'd like to achieve that within the next five years.
0:55:38 > 0:55:43As for tonight's winner, Matt Rees, what's his strategy?
0:55:43 > 0:55:49I dropped out of university last year to do comedy full-time,
0:55:49 > 0:55:51so fuck you, Dad.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53LAUGHTER
0:55:53 > 0:55:55CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:55:57 > 0:56:00Britain's comedy boom, especially the boom on TV,
0:56:00 > 0:56:02has clearly inspired these young performers.
0:56:02 > 0:56:06Two cards, three cards.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11But where does that leave the clubs where, over 30 years ago,
0:56:11 > 0:56:13the boom began?
0:56:13 > 0:56:16'There are multimillionaire comedians
0:56:16 > 0:56:20'but, equally, there are more struggling comedians too.'
0:56:20 > 0:56:24I understand, you know, the regular kind of club circuit,
0:56:24 > 0:56:26numbers are slightly down now.
0:56:26 > 0:56:28You know, like, they'll cancel the Thursday,
0:56:28 > 0:56:31whereas, they were doing Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
0:56:31 > 0:56:34We will lose, I think, in the next few years,
0:56:34 > 0:56:38quite a lot of clubs. There will be an awful lot of casualties.
0:56:38 > 0:56:42Now, friends of mine, they say you have to wait months for gigs,
0:56:42 > 0:56:45sometimes you have to pay the venue for an open spot
0:56:45 > 0:56:48and then they still don't pay you for ages and ages and ages
0:56:48 > 0:56:50until, basically, maybe, you've been on the telly
0:56:50 > 0:56:53and then there's some cachet and then they'll start paying you.
0:56:55 > 0:56:59And it's not just the little guy who's noticing the squeeze.
0:56:59 > 0:57:01Four years ago, there were ten,
0:57:01 > 0:57:0415, of us touring.
0:57:04 > 0:57:07I think now...50.
0:57:07 > 0:57:10So I'm totally feeling it. I do a signing after my show,
0:57:10 > 0:57:13I'm surrounded by everyone's posters and I'm looking and thinking,
0:57:13 > 0:57:17"There's no way you'd have been touring two years ago. You're touring? Blimey.
0:57:17 > 0:57:19"I don't even know who you are and you're touring big venues.
0:57:19 > 0:57:22"You're playing the Hammersmith Apollo? I've never heard of you."
0:57:22 > 0:57:24And I'm in the bloody industry.
0:57:25 > 0:57:29One year, my parents got me hide-and-seek for Christmas.
0:57:31 > 0:57:33That's taking the mick, isn't it?
0:57:33 > 0:57:36You can't give somebody hide-and-seek - it's just an idea!
0:57:36 > 0:57:39It's been around for hundreds of years. You can't do that.
0:57:39 > 0:57:41My mum went, "Oh, it's the thought that counts."
0:57:41 > 0:57:42Well, I've got a thought, Mum.
0:57:42 > 0:57:46You're going to a home. How about that?
0:57:46 > 0:57:48There is actually a point where you do explode
0:57:48 > 0:57:53cos it's like comedy has fallen for this capitalist concept of endless growth
0:57:53 > 0:57:57and at some point...it stops.
0:57:57 > 0:58:01At some point, there are...
0:58:01 > 0:58:04too many Michael McIntyre DVDs.
0:58:04 > 0:58:08You'll hear a little pop somewhere in the universe
0:58:08 > 0:58:11as the fabric of reality implodes when that happens.
0:58:13 > 0:58:16# But that joke isn't funny any more
0:58:16 > 0:58:21# It's too close to home and it's too near the bone
0:58:21 > 0:58:25# It's too close to home and it's too near the bone
0:58:25 > 0:58:30# More than you'll ever know... #
0:58:33 > 0:58:36Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd