0:00:02 > 0:00:04Every day, we're bombarded with conflicting information
0:00:04 > 0:00:06about our favourite foods.
0:00:09 > 0:00:13One minute we're told something's good for us. The next, it's not.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16And we're left feeling guilty about what we're eating.
0:00:19 > 0:00:22So we've been wading through the confusion
0:00:22 > 0:00:24to separate the scare stories from the truth
0:00:24 > 0:00:27so that you can choose your food with confidence.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35Hello, and welcome to the programme that's here to stop us
0:00:35 > 0:00:37being hoodwinked by the headlines when it comes to our food.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40"Headlines" is the word, because I read the papers every day
0:00:40 > 0:00:42and I have to say, I am confused,
0:00:42 > 0:00:44because if you swallow everything you read
0:00:44 > 0:00:45about what is or isn't good for us -
0:00:45 > 0:00:49well, there wouldn't be much left you'd feel confident about eating.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52If your head's spinning trying to figure out which advice is correct
0:00:52 > 0:00:54and what you should be eating,
0:00:54 > 0:00:57we'll be bringing some much-needed clarity to the table
0:00:57 > 0:01:00as we discover how much of what we thought we knew
0:01:00 > 0:01:02turns out to be wrong.
0:01:02 > 0:01:04Coming up on the programme today -
0:01:04 > 0:01:07we have reassuring news about red meat,
0:01:07 > 0:01:09after particularly scary reports
0:01:09 > 0:01:11threatened to butcher businesses like this one.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14It was all a bit devastating, really.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16You know, as the papers got hold of it,
0:01:16 > 0:01:18and then, of course, it was broadcast on the news everywhere.
0:01:18 > 0:01:23And at first, you know, people are scared witless, really.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27For decades we were told fat caused heart disease,
0:01:27 > 0:01:30but as reports suggest, some old-fashioned fats
0:01:30 > 0:01:32are back in favour.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34You really get the flavour of the dripping.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36It really goes a long way, doesn't it?
0:01:36 > 0:01:38It's absolutely marvellous.
0:01:38 > 0:01:41And which bread is best - white or brown?
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Why an old favourite may not be so bad as we're often told.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52Now, if you're a committed carnivore like me,
0:01:52 > 0:01:54you'll have been horrified by the news late last year
0:01:54 > 0:01:56that eating too much processed red meat
0:01:56 > 0:01:59like sausages or bacon can cause cancer.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01Bad news for me. I have to admit, I still love a good fry-up.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03Not every day, though. I couldn't do that.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07Look at some of these headlines - Killer In The Kitchen, Banger Out Of Order.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10- They're certainly not sitting on the fence with this, are they?- No.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12- What about you? Do you still eat meat?- I do indeed.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14My wife's vegetarian, but I'm not going to lie -
0:02:14 > 0:02:17it was going to take more than these headlines to separate me
0:02:17 > 0:02:20from a bacon butty, or at least until I knew for sure
0:02:20 > 0:02:22what the risk is. So I set off to find out.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26We're a nation that loves our red meat -
0:02:26 > 0:02:29so much, in fact, that on average those of us who eat it
0:02:29 > 0:02:33get through the equivalent of three steaks every week.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36But last October, there were some particularly worrying headlines
0:02:36 > 0:02:39linking red meat and processed meat
0:02:39 > 0:02:42like bacon, ham and sausages with cancer.
0:02:42 > 0:02:43My husband says to me,
0:02:43 > 0:02:47"See? I told you we shouldn't eat bacon every day."
0:02:47 > 0:02:51And then you turn around and think, "Well, they're the experts."
0:02:51 > 0:02:53The report that sparked the headlines
0:02:53 > 0:02:54from the World Health Organization
0:02:54 > 0:02:58said processed meat in particular is a serious risk to our health.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02Each additional daily serving of processed red meat,
0:03:02 > 0:03:05the equivalent of one hot dog or two rashers of bacon,
0:03:05 > 0:03:07raises the chances of dying by a fifth.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12In the two weeks after the news broke,
0:03:12 > 0:03:15British supermarkets saw sales of sausages and bacon
0:03:15 > 0:03:17plummet by £3 million.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20And butchers like this one in Twickenham saw their sales
0:03:20 > 0:03:23of red meat drop by 10% overnight.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25- How are you?- I'm very well, mate, yeah. Yourself?
0:03:25 > 0:03:27Yeah, not too bad.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Those headlines couldn't have come at a worse time
0:03:29 > 0:03:32for Lou and his team, as they were preparing for a special event
0:03:32 > 0:03:36that was supposed to supersize sausage sales - not slaughter them.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39It was Great British Sausage Week.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41We were all geared up for a massive campaign
0:03:41 > 0:03:43on sausages that weekend.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46We'd got all sorts of brochures, posters.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49We were going to do a big barbecue out the front of the shop.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51So it was all a bit devastating, really.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54You know, as the papers got hold of it, and then, of course,
0:03:54 > 0:03:56it was broadcast on the news everywhere.
0:03:56 > 0:04:01And at first, you know, people are scared witless, really.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03We have our own pig farm as well,
0:04:03 > 0:04:08- so we run about 150 to 200 pigs at a time.- Right.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11So if the supply chain here sort of dries up,
0:04:11 > 0:04:13we've got a ruined business.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18I visited the shop a few weeks after those first headlines,
0:04:18 > 0:04:20and I wanted to see if, now the dust had settled,
0:04:20 > 0:04:23Lou's loyal customers had been put off red meat for good.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26So do you mind if I get stuck in and talk to a few of your customers
0:04:26 > 0:04:29about the concerns they have about red and processed meat?
0:04:29 > 0:04:31- No, no problem at all.- Brilliant. - Let's get you kitted up!
0:04:31 > 0:04:34Fantastic. Put on the famous red-and-white apron, huh?
0:04:34 > 0:04:36Sales of sausages and bacon nationally,
0:04:36 > 0:04:38already slowly declining,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41dropped rapidly in the months following the new report.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43But there's little sign of that here.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46There were recent health scares - the World Health Organization
0:04:46 > 0:04:48said that processed meat was very bad for you,
0:04:48 > 0:04:51increased risk of cancer - what do you think about that?
0:04:53 > 0:04:55There's always a scare, isn't there, about something or other?
0:04:55 > 0:04:57I would imagine that it's complete tosh.
0:04:57 > 0:04:59THEY LAUGH
0:04:59 > 0:05:00No. You only live here once.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03Enjoy your meat while you're here, while you can still eat it
0:05:03 > 0:05:05and while your teeth are still in your mouth.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08So enjoy it. Forget all the other scares. Move on.
0:05:08 > 0:05:10Where's my ham?
0:05:10 > 0:05:12- So you're not worried?- No, I'm not.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15If you buy good quality from a reputable source,
0:05:15 > 0:05:18then I think you're fine. You're absolutely fine.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23In fact, all the customers I met had taken the news
0:05:23 > 0:05:24with a hefty pinch of salt.
0:05:25 > 0:05:27It's good news for Lou -
0:05:27 > 0:05:29in his shop, at least, sales are back to normal.
0:05:29 > 0:05:33It certainly has recovered right back to where we were before,
0:05:33 > 0:05:37so it's not killed it dead in the water. Definitely not.
0:05:37 > 0:05:39After speaking to a few people this morning, it seems that
0:05:39 > 0:05:42although they may have been a little bit concerned initially,
0:05:42 > 0:05:44after a fairly short period of time,
0:05:44 > 0:05:46they've got back into their old routines,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48and what they are doing is putting their trust
0:05:48 > 0:05:52in the great British butcher to provide them with good-quality meat.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55So we might not have fallen out of love
0:05:55 > 0:05:56with red or processed meat entirely,
0:05:56 > 0:05:59but those headlines WERE pretty scary.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02The World Health Organization said that 50g of processed meat
0:06:02 > 0:06:05every day - that's about two rashers of bacon -
0:06:05 > 0:06:09could increase the risk of some types of cancer by up to 18%.
0:06:09 > 0:06:13And as someone who's particularly partial to a good sausage sandwich,
0:06:13 > 0:06:14that had worried me.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18So, to make sense of it all, I've come to King's College in London
0:06:18 > 0:06:19to ask Prof David Phillips
0:06:19 > 0:06:22whether I should bin the bangers for good.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26So, David, what is it in red meat that's dangerous to us?
0:06:26 > 0:06:28Well, first of all, we have to distinguish
0:06:28 > 0:06:30between red meat and processed meat.
0:06:30 > 0:06:32So red meat, over here,
0:06:32 > 0:06:36is fresh meat - be it lamb, pork or beef.
0:06:36 > 0:06:40And then you have processed meat, which is food of similar origin
0:06:40 > 0:06:42- but which has been preserved in some way.- OK.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46So there's the sausages, bacon, ham, salami, pepperoni.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49It's had preservatives added to it in order to prolong its life,
0:06:49 > 0:06:51and that also altered its flavour,
0:06:51 > 0:06:53and these are the things that we're familiar with.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55OK, so we've got mince here.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58Should mince be on the plate with the processed meats?
0:06:58 > 0:07:00No, mince is still fresh meat.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02It hasn't been preserved in any way.
0:07:02 > 0:07:04It's been processed in the sense it's been mashed up,
0:07:04 > 0:07:07but no preservatives have been added to it.
0:07:07 > 0:07:09But the mince doesn't get off scot-free.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12The World Health Organization's report said that processed meat
0:07:12 > 0:07:15like bacon, packed ham and sausages carry the highest risk,
0:07:15 > 0:07:18thanks to the carcinogens released when the meat is cured,
0:07:18 > 0:07:20smoked or processed.
0:07:20 > 0:07:24But the report also said that eating too much unprocessed red meat
0:07:24 > 0:07:26carries a risk too.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30But what is it about all of these meats that are dangerous to us?
0:07:30 > 0:07:33Well, in the case of the red meat first,
0:07:33 > 0:07:38this contains high amounts of a substance called haem.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41Haem contains iron, and we need iron in our diets,
0:07:41 > 0:07:44but also, haem can be broken down in the gut
0:07:44 > 0:07:47to harmful chemicals, and we think it's possible
0:07:47 > 0:07:50that some of these chemicals might be able to trigger cancer.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53OK, and haem - that's blood, isn't it?
0:07:53 > 0:07:55Haem is in blood. That's what makes blood red.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58It carries the oxygen around our body.
0:07:58 > 0:08:00Well, that sounds like a good thing.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02So what is it about this that's dangerous for us?
0:08:02 > 0:08:06Well, if we eat a lot of haem in our diet,
0:08:06 > 0:08:08then that gets into the gut
0:08:08 > 0:08:11and there it can get broken down into harmful chemicals
0:08:11 > 0:08:14which could cause bowel cancer.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17But the report also made clear that all processed meat,
0:08:17 > 0:08:20whether it's red or white, carries an additional risk.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24The chemicals that are generated
0:08:24 > 0:08:28during the processing of the meat or in the cooking of the meat
0:08:28 > 0:08:32can additionally cause damage to the cells in our bowels,
0:08:32 > 0:08:35and that makes an additional risk of cancer.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39As a result, the official NHS advice is not to eat more
0:08:39 > 0:08:42than 70g of either processed or red meat a day.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44That's about the same as two to three rashers of bacon
0:08:44 > 0:08:47or two small slices of roast beef.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50So should we be concerned about eating red and processed meat?
0:08:50 > 0:08:52Not if we don't eat too much of it.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55But it's fair to say that of the many cases of cancer
0:08:55 > 0:08:59that occur in the UK, a small proportion of them
0:08:59 > 0:09:02will be due to eating too much red meat.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04A very small proportion, in fact.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06In a group of 1,000 people
0:09:06 > 0:09:09who ate a small amount of processed meat each week,
0:09:09 > 0:09:1056 would develop bowel cancer.
0:09:10 > 0:09:14But in a group of 1,000 people who ate a lot of processed meat,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17only ten more, 66, would develop it.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21So while statistically there IS a higher risk, it's not as high
0:09:21 > 0:09:23as some of those headlines might have led you to believe.
0:09:23 > 0:09:27In fact, it's thought that just 34,000 cases of bowel cancer
0:09:27 > 0:09:30worldwide are caused by eating processed meat.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33So no-one's saying that processed meat or red meat
0:09:33 > 0:09:35will definitely give you cancer -
0:09:35 > 0:09:38it's just that your risk of developing it is slightly higher
0:09:38 > 0:09:39if you eat too much.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41So should I feel worried or guilty
0:09:41 > 0:09:44the next time I want to tuck into a bacon sandwich?
0:09:44 > 0:09:46Absolutely not. I think you should think about
0:09:46 > 0:09:49how many times you are tucking into a bacon sandwich,
0:09:49 > 0:09:51rather than whether you tuck into one or not.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53So despite those terrifying headlines,
0:09:53 > 0:09:57there's no need to take red meat off the menu entirely,
0:09:57 > 0:10:00not least because, in moderation, it can be really good for us.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04And nutritionist Priya Tew can explain why.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06So we've got lots of different cuts of red meat here,
0:10:06 > 0:10:08which all look very appetising,
0:10:08 > 0:10:11but apart from taste and flavour, do they offer us anything?
0:10:11 > 0:10:14Absolutely. It's a brilliant source of protein,
0:10:14 > 0:10:17it's leaner in fat than most people would think,
0:10:17 > 0:10:21it contains B vitamins, some vitamin D and selenium
0:10:21 > 0:10:23as well as iron and zinc.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26And that iron in particular is an especially useful nutrient
0:10:26 > 0:10:28for many of us.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30We know that, worldwide,
0:10:30 > 0:10:34population figures are that 30% of people are anaemic,
0:10:34 > 0:10:36so they have low levels of iron.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39When we look at the UK population, it's not necessarily that
0:10:39 > 0:10:42everybody's going to have a problem with their iron,
0:10:42 > 0:10:45but teenage girls, for example, pregnant women
0:10:45 > 0:10:49are people who are more susceptible to having low iron levels,
0:10:49 > 0:10:51so we definitely want to be encouraging them
0:10:51 > 0:10:53to be eating red meat regularly.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56You're saying that actually these can offer
0:10:56 > 0:10:58a lot of nutritional value and goodness as well?
0:10:58 > 0:11:03Yes, I am. So if you were having 70g of red meat a day,
0:11:03 > 0:11:04that's perfectly safe.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08So that could be equivalent to you having your 4oz steak
0:11:08 > 0:11:10a couple of times a week, for example,
0:11:10 > 0:11:14making sure you are having some meat-free days as well.
0:11:14 > 0:11:16So there is nothing wrong with having red meat
0:11:16 > 0:11:18and even processed meat a few times a week
0:11:18 > 0:11:20as part of a healthy, balanced diet.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23That's music to my ears. And on that note,
0:11:23 > 0:11:26I'm off to tuck into a juicy quarter-pounder, guilt free.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31If the news about the link between processed red meat and cancer
0:11:31 > 0:11:34has prompted you to cut back on the amount of red meat you eat,
0:11:34 > 0:11:38visit bbc.co.uk/food for quick and easy recipes
0:11:38 > 0:11:41that swap processed and red meat for healthier alternatives.
0:11:46 > 0:11:48It was a huge relief to me to find
0:11:48 > 0:11:51that I can still enjoy the odd bacon butty as long as it's not every day.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54I have to admit, I took the report really seriously
0:11:54 > 0:11:56because we've got cancer in our family,
0:11:56 > 0:11:58though I have not cut back completely.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01I still have a little bit of it, because I think in the end,
0:12:01 > 0:12:03people go for moderation, don't they?
0:12:03 > 0:12:06But it's not just the case that health messages can change
0:12:06 > 0:12:09to make something that one day is supposedly good for you
0:12:09 > 0:12:11turn out to be bad for you the next.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13It happens, actually, the other way around.
0:12:13 > 0:12:17Now, take saturated fats - found, of course, in things like
0:12:17 > 0:12:19full-fat milk, butter and lard.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22For years we were told that they raised our cholesterol levels
0:12:22 > 0:12:24and were linked to heart disease.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29The link now between saturated fat and heart disease is being debunked.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31So have a look at this headline, for example -
0:12:31 > 0:12:33Eating Fat Is Good For You.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36After 40 years of warnings, the doctors say it's now healthy.
0:12:36 > 0:12:38- That caught a lot of us by surprise, didn't it?- Yeah.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40Because for years we were thinking about the fat.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43The question is, to know which fats are fine
0:12:43 > 0:12:44to go back on the menu.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51Once upon a time, Britain's dinner tables groaned under the weight
0:12:51 > 0:12:55of meals that we'd now consider terrifyingly unhealthy.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58But in the '80s and '90s, a healthy eating revolution
0:12:58 > 0:13:01swept the nation, turning lots of us into calorie obsessives
0:13:01 > 0:13:05fearful of one thing more than anything else - fat.
0:13:05 > 0:13:07And a host of new products appeared
0:13:07 > 0:13:10with the promise that they were better for us.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12# No artificial ingredients
0:13:12 > 0:13:14# Nothing artificial
0:13:14 > 0:13:17# That's the best feeling from Blue Band Margarine
0:13:17 > 0:13:19# It couldn't be better. #
0:13:20 > 0:13:22St Ivel Gold.
0:13:22 > 0:13:23Half the fat of any margarine.
0:13:25 > 0:13:26And it tastes...
0:13:26 > 0:13:28smashing.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34We swapped butter for margarine, lard for vegetable oil,
0:13:34 > 0:13:36full-cream milk for skimmed.
0:13:36 > 0:13:38We'd all got the message that saturated fat,
0:13:38 > 0:13:41found in animal fats like lard and butter,
0:13:41 > 0:13:44was clogging our arteries and putting a strain on our hearts.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48So instead, we turned to products that were low in saturated fats
0:13:48 > 0:13:52that we were advised were much less likely to cause heart disease.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55And that way of thinking stuck with us for decades
0:13:55 > 0:13:58until a clutch of recent reports seemed to suggest
0:13:58 > 0:14:00that we should forget all of that.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04An international study has discovered little evidence
0:14:04 > 0:14:06that polyunsaturated fats,
0:14:06 > 0:14:09which are found in olive oil, nuts and fish,
0:14:09 > 0:14:12offer better protection from heart disease than saturated fats.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16Suddenly, it seemed the fats that for years we'd been told
0:14:16 > 0:14:18were bad for our hearts might not be.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21And the ones we'd replaced them with weren't necessarily
0:14:21 > 0:14:23any better for us after all.
0:14:23 > 0:14:24So, what to believe?
0:14:25 > 0:14:28Some people have said that you can't eat butter,
0:14:28 > 0:14:29that's got a lot of fat in it,
0:14:29 > 0:14:31and then other people say you can eat butter.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34I know that there are good fats and there are bad fats,
0:14:34 > 0:14:36but I couldn't tell you the difference.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38Your good fats are things like
0:14:38 > 0:14:42- natural olive oils, that sort of thing.- Omega.- Yeah.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44Your bad fats are the animal fats.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46I must admit, I really do like butter,
0:14:46 > 0:14:48so I'm actually going onto butter
0:14:48 > 0:14:51away from so-called healthy margarines.
0:14:54 > 0:14:57I have to admit that the idea that butter
0:14:57 > 0:14:59needn't be one of my guilty pleasures is great.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02But what has changed? I've come to meet Prof Bruce Griffin
0:15:02 > 0:15:04at the University of Surrey
0:15:04 > 0:15:07to try to get a clear answer on this once and for all.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12Saturated fats, processed fats - we all get very confused,
0:15:12 > 0:15:14so just explain the difference between them.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17The main two categories of fats are saturated fat
0:15:17 > 0:15:18and polyunsaturated fats.
0:15:18 > 0:15:22Now, classically, saturated fats come from animal sources,
0:15:22 > 0:15:25and polyunsaturates come from plant sources.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29Classically, butter contains about 50% saturated fat,
0:15:29 > 0:15:34and this spread would contain large amounts of polyunsaturated fats.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37Saturated fats tends to be solid at room temperature,
0:15:37 > 0:15:39like the fat we have here.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43And polyunsaturated fats tend to be liquids at room temperature.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48It's those solid saturated fats that had long been linked
0:15:48 > 0:15:51to heart disease, which is why we were all encouraged
0:15:51 > 0:15:55to reduce the amount of animal fats we ate, like butter and lard.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58Meanwhile, polyunsaturated fats
0:15:58 > 0:16:00were thought to actually protect the heart.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03But the reports published in 2015
0:16:03 > 0:16:05poured cold water on all of that.
0:16:05 > 0:16:09They compared dozens of studies that took place over decades
0:16:09 > 0:16:12and concluded there was simply no proof that saturated fat
0:16:12 > 0:16:17caused heart disease, or indeed that polyunsaturated fats didn't.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21There have been some very large studies called meta-analyses,
0:16:21 > 0:16:24which have tried to demonstrate a relationship
0:16:24 > 0:16:27between the intake of saturated fat and cardiovascular disease,
0:16:27 > 0:16:29and they haven't been able to do it.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31They've shown no relationship between the intake
0:16:31 > 0:16:34of saturated fat and cardiovascular disease.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37And this has led to people believing
0:16:37 > 0:16:40that our recommendations are maybe incorrect
0:16:40 > 0:16:43that we should be reducing our intake of saturated fat.
0:16:43 > 0:16:46My immediate reaction on reading the latest headlines,
0:16:46 > 0:16:48and maybe your thoughts as well,
0:16:48 > 0:16:51was that if they were right, perhaps it was time to start
0:16:51 > 0:16:53rethinking our relationship with fats.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56Now, for years, I've used low-fat spreads and oils
0:16:56 > 0:16:59in place of the butter I'd much rather be using,
0:16:59 > 0:17:02all because I'd been worried about that link with heart disease.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05And maybe the apparent change in the advice explains
0:17:05 > 0:17:09why some long-forgotten fats are now coming back on the menu.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12Shaun Searley is head chef at this restaurant in London,
0:17:12 > 0:17:16where he serves my mum's good old favourite - dripping.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19For years firmly out of fashion, it's now the latest fad.
0:17:19 > 0:17:22James Martin, for example, says it's the secret to fruit cake,
0:17:22 > 0:17:25and Heston Blumenthal to roast potatoes.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28Shaun, thank you very much for letting me come into your kitchen.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Way, way back, my mum would have had dripping and also lard.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33But maybe we could have the definition
0:17:33 > 0:17:35of the difference between lard and dripping?
0:17:35 > 0:17:39Yeah. I mean, it's simple, really - lard would be pork fat,
0:17:39 > 0:17:41and dripping would come from beef.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46But unlike my mum, Shaun's using his dripping very sparingly.
0:17:46 > 0:17:50Its potent taste means that you don't need much at all.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53And all it will do is add layer upon layer of flavour.
0:17:53 > 0:17:55You talk about the flavour being everything
0:17:55 > 0:17:57for this particular dish - do you find that
0:17:57 > 0:18:00because it is so flavoursome that you actually use less?
0:18:00 > 0:18:04Absolutely. I mean, the richness will go a lot further
0:18:04 > 0:18:07than, say, a butter, which has quite a neutral flavour.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Especially something that you've bought, sort of a generic style.
0:18:10 > 0:18:11This beef fat is going to be...
0:18:11 > 0:18:16It's going to last you double, probably, the butter.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20Beef dripping, into the pan, your toast goes in.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22'The dripping's distinctive aroma
0:18:22 > 0:18:24'really does take me back to my youth...'
0:18:24 > 0:18:26Bit on the side.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28'..but will it taste as good as I remember?'
0:18:28 > 0:18:30Can't wait to try this.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33Mmm.
0:18:33 > 0:18:35You really get the flavour of the dripping.
0:18:35 > 0:18:37It really goes a long way, doesn't it?
0:18:37 > 0:18:39And I think when you've fried it with that sourdough,
0:18:39 > 0:18:43you get these kind of sweet, nutty flavours from the beef fat.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45It's absolutely marvellous.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49When my mum was cooking with dripping or butter,
0:18:49 > 0:18:52our national diet was very different.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54In the late '50s we ate - wait for this -
0:18:54 > 0:18:56129g of butter a day.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59That's more than half a pack each.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02But since then, encouraged by the message that saturated fats
0:19:02 > 0:19:05were especially bad, we've reduced our butter habit
0:19:05 > 0:19:07to just 40g a day.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11And we also slashed the total amount of saturated fat we ate
0:19:11 > 0:19:15from 111g a day each in 1975
0:19:15 > 0:19:18to 81g a day each in 2012.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22And that's no bad thing, because although we do need some fats
0:19:22 > 0:19:25in our diet to help absorb vital vitamins, amongst other things,
0:19:25 > 0:19:29back at the university, it turns out that what's really behind
0:19:29 > 0:19:32all those headlines isn't quite as simple as it might have appeared.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37The implication of some of these reports in the papers
0:19:37 > 0:19:39is that you can have as much saturated fat as you want
0:19:39 > 0:19:42- and it's not affecting your heart. - No, that's not true.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45These very large studies haven't necessarily come up with
0:19:45 > 0:19:50the right answer, because the relationship between saturated fat
0:19:50 > 0:19:53and cardiovascular disease is more complex
0:19:53 > 0:19:56than we have understood in the past.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59The truth is, putting together all the research
0:19:59 > 0:20:01hasn't been able to prove a link
0:20:01 > 0:20:03between saturated fats and heart disease.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06It doesn't mean for sure that there isn't one,
0:20:06 > 0:20:09or, indeed, that you can suddenly eat as much butter as you like.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12Which is why the NHS advice on this hasn't changed.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15But the new research does mean if you gave up these fats
0:20:15 > 0:20:18purely because it seemed there was a definite, proven risk
0:20:18 > 0:20:22with heart disease - well, I'm afraid that wasn't the case.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25I'd love to take some advice about keeping your heart healthy.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28What would your professional advice be there?
0:20:28 > 0:20:30Well, overall, I think what we've got to do
0:20:30 > 0:20:35is move away from focusing on single nutrients,
0:20:35 > 0:20:38like certain types of fat, and look at whole diets.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40Because it's whole diets and dietary patterns,
0:20:40 > 0:20:43changing the dietary pattern, that we know has a benefit
0:20:43 > 0:20:45of protecting us from cardiovascular disease.
0:20:45 > 0:20:49The best evidence we have is the effects of the Mediterranean diet,
0:20:49 > 0:20:53which is low in saturated fat and high in unsaturated fats.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56It's one diet that we know actually works
0:20:56 > 0:20:58in preventing cardiovascular disease.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01It's altering our overall dietary pattern that's important.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06And while it's good news that saturated fats need no longer
0:21:06 > 0:21:09be demonised as a particular cause of heart disease,
0:21:09 > 0:21:12eating too much of any kind of fat can lead to obesity,
0:21:12 > 0:21:14which does damage your heart.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18So the message is still, put simply, don't eat too much.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22For a man, the limit should be 30g of saturated fat a day,
0:21:22 > 0:21:24and for a woman, it's 20g a day.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28But at least you don't have to avoid it altogether.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31Well, seeing as I'm partial to a bit of butter,
0:21:31 > 0:21:33what should I actually be putting on my toast every day?
0:21:33 > 0:21:36Should I feel guilty about having it?
0:21:36 > 0:21:38I don't think so, as long as you're aware
0:21:38 > 0:21:41that that's providing about a quarter
0:21:41 > 0:21:44of the recommended level of intake of saturated fat in your diet,
0:21:44 > 0:21:47and you impose some control
0:21:47 > 0:21:50over the rest of the day and what you eat.
0:21:50 > 0:21:53I think common sense and eating these foods in moderation
0:21:53 > 0:21:56is very important. Not just for saturated fat intake,
0:21:56 > 0:21:59but also for the energy intake to maintain your body weight,
0:21:59 > 0:22:02- I think is critical. - So moderation is your phrase?
0:22:02 > 0:22:03Moderation, yeah.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07So, much as I really enjoyed it,
0:22:07 > 0:22:11I won't be putting dripping on the menu in my house too often.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17Still to come - how the original superfood
0:22:17 > 0:22:19was banished from our plates for 20 years
0:22:19 > 0:22:22thanks to science that simply doesn't stand up.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24In the '80s, we had all sorts of scares -
0:22:24 > 0:22:28cholesterol in eggs was bad for you. Then Edwina did her bit,
0:22:28 > 0:22:30and we saw the bottom of the market then, I guess.
0:22:36 > 0:22:38The food we eat has amazing powers
0:22:38 > 0:22:43and can help our bodies conquer all sorts of common conditions.
0:22:43 > 0:22:47Every day, GP Dr Rangan Chatterjee sees patients
0:22:47 > 0:22:51whose problems could be helped or even solved by changing their diet.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54So we asked him to share some of his secrets.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58Today, it's the digestive system - the group of organs
0:22:58 > 0:23:02that convert food into energy that fuels the entire body.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05When it comes to problems with the digestive system,
0:23:05 > 0:23:09there's nothing more important than what you eat.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13One in three of us suffers some kind of digestive discomfort,
0:23:13 > 0:23:17with the biggest complaint simply the pains we call indigestion.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20Typically, when people get indigestion,
0:23:20 > 0:23:24they get pain in their upper abdomen or behind their breastbone.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27Often a result of eating too fast or too much,
0:23:27 > 0:23:30indigestion is caused by acids that break down the food inside us,
0:23:30 > 0:23:32irritating the lining of our stomach.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36The foods that typically can cause us symptoms
0:23:36 > 0:23:38are fried, fatty foods -
0:23:38 > 0:23:41sometimes sausages, sometimes bacon -
0:23:41 > 0:23:42fatty foods such as cream.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44If you cut these out,
0:23:44 > 0:23:47often people find an improvement in their symptoms.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50Other common triggers for indigestion can be curries,
0:23:50 > 0:23:54cucumbers, citrus fruits and carbonated drinks.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57Now, you may know that if you put a penny in a glass
0:23:57 > 0:24:01and you pour cola in, it will clean it overnight,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04and that's because of the kind of acid that's in the cola.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06It's corrosive, and it's called phosphoric acid.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09And that could precipitate acid reflux
0:24:09 > 0:24:11and more indigestion symptoms.
0:24:11 > 0:24:14That's why, if you do have indigestion, I'd certainly say
0:24:14 > 0:24:18you should cut down on fizzy drinks or even eliminate them if you can.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20Instead of the fizz, reach for a tea -
0:24:20 > 0:24:22but not one made with mint.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25We may have used mint to aid digestion for generations,
0:24:25 > 0:24:28but in some cases it's been found to actually make heartburn worse.
0:24:28 > 0:24:32So you'd be better choosing one made with ginger to settle your stomach.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35Or you could reach for the so-called friendly bacteria
0:24:35 > 0:24:39found in probiotic tablets, which might help balance the stomach.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43Probiotics might also be beneficial for sufferers of another
0:24:43 > 0:24:47common digestive condition - irritable bowel syndrome.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50IBS is estimated to affect up to one in five of us
0:24:50 > 0:24:52at some point in our lives.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56Irritable bowel syndrome is the name we give to a collection of symptoms
0:24:56 > 0:24:59that include tummy ache, diarrhoea, constipation as well as bloating.
0:24:59 > 0:25:03The abdominal swelling we call bloating can be extremely painful,
0:25:03 > 0:25:07so if you're prone, steer clear of such wind-inducing foods
0:25:07 > 0:25:09as not just the notorious baked bean
0:25:09 > 0:25:12but cabbage, cauliflower and even some fruits.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16Now, the fruits that can cause this are things like apples and plums.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19And instead of apples and plums, you might want to have
0:25:19 > 0:25:20fruits such as bananas and oranges.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23Those same uncomfortable symptoms can occur
0:25:23 > 0:25:25if you have an intolerance to dairy.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28Milk contains a sugar called lactose.
0:25:28 > 0:25:30Lactose can be very difficult to break down
0:25:30 > 0:25:31for a lot of IBS sufferers.
0:25:31 > 0:25:35Stopping having lactose and actually having milks without lactose,
0:25:35 > 0:25:38such as lactose-free milk or soya milk,
0:25:38 > 0:25:39can often help with your symptoms.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42As we'll see later, another everyday food
0:25:42 > 0:25:47that is often much maligned can also worsen wind and abdominal cramps
0:25:47 > 0:25:49if you've got a sensitivity to gluten.
0:25:49 > 0:25:51Bread which contains wheat
0:25:51 > 0:25:53can often be difficult for the gut to break down,
0:25:53 > 0:25:55so instead of these,
0:25:55 > 0:25:58you may want to go for some wheat-free substitutes instead.
0:25:58 > 0:26:00IBS sufferers who are sensitive to wheat
0:26:00 > 0:26:03can get that vital fibre instead from nuts,
0:26:03 > 0:26:06leafy green veg like kale and spinach,
0:26:06 > 0:26:11and best of all, ground flaxseed, easy to sprinkle on top of a yogurt.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14And the good doctor has another tip we can all take on board,
0:26:14 > 0:26:17whether we have digestive problems or not.
0:26:17 > 0:26:19It's not just changing what you eat, but when you eat.
0:26:19 > 0:26:23Try not to eat anything three hours before you go to bed.
0:26:23 > 0:26:26Going to bed with a full stomach is going to increase the risk that
0:26:26 > 0:26:30you push stomach acid out of your stomach and into your oesophagus.
0:26:30 > 0:26:32Add to that the advice your mother used to say -
0:26:32 > 0:26:35don't wolf your dinner down - and you should be able to enjoy
0:26:35 > 0:26:38eating good food without the bad effects.
0:26:45 > 0:26:46Next, our daily bread!
0:26:46 > 0:26:49So, Chris, what would it be for you? Would it be ordinary white bread
0:26:49 > 0:26:51or would it be big, fat, chunky wholemeal?
0:26:51 > 0:26:55Do you know what? I don't mind either, actually, but for some things it has to be white bread.
0:26:55 > 0:26:57So if I was having a bacon sandwich, it would have to be
0:26:57 > 0:27:01- on a sliced white.- Nothing else would do?- I don't think it would taste the same.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04The nation, apparently, is falling out of love with bread,
0:27:04 > 0:27:06because a lot of the headlines say that it makes you fat.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10And I have to admit, I have cut back as much as I can on bread -
0:27:10 > 0:27:12and she pulls her stomach in! HE LAUGHS
0:27:12 > 0:27:14So, should we be avoiding it?
0:27:14 > 0:27:17Or do you think there's more to the humble loaf than meets the eye?
0:27:17 > 0:27:20Well, there's definitely more to some loaves than meets the eye.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22And there's one type in particular that you may well
0:27:22 > 0:27:25change your mind about after watching this.
0:27:26 > 0:27:30We used to love these conveniently packaged loaves so much
0:27:30 > 0:27:33that we judged everything else against them,
0:27:33 > 0:27:35describing the most impressive new ideas
0:27:35 > 0:27:37as "the best thing since sliced bread".
0:27:37 > 0:27:39But things have changed.
0:27:39 > 0:27:44In 2015, we spent almost £100 million less on sliced bread
0:27:44 > 0:27:46than we did just a year earlier.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49And while many of us do still love our daily bread,
0:27:49 > 0:27:52the decline in popularity of some of our best-known varieties
0:27:52 > 0:27:56reflects growing concerns that bread is just not good for us.
0:27:56 > 0:27:59- I love bread. I absolutely do. - SHE LAUGHS
0:27:59 > 0:28:01Unfortunately for my waistline, yeah, I like bread.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03I'd eat it every day if I could.
0:28:03 > 0:28:05Bread's one of those things everybody eats.
0:28:05 > 0:28:08And if you want to grab something quick, it's a sandwich,
0:28:08 > 0:28:10it's generally a bread type of product.
0:28:10 > 0:28:14I think, like, I try and be healthier
0:28:14 > 0:28:16by choosing brown over white,
0:28:16 > 0:28:20but really, is that any healthier?
0:28:21 > 0:28:23Well, now, there's a question.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25Because while we're buying less bread across the board,
0:28:25 > 0:28:29we still buy twice as much sliced white bread than brown,
0:28:29 > 0:28:32even though white bread is considered less healthy.
0:28:32 > 0:28:36But is white really the nutritional poor relation we often think it is?
0:28:36 > 0:28:39Well, I've set up my own bread stall in a Cambridge market,
0:28:39 > 0:28:42and I'm asking passing shoppers which type
0:28:42 > 0:28:45is most likely to end up in their basket.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48So, out of this, which bread would you buy?
0:28:51 > 0:28:53So I have four different sliced loaves -
0:28:53 > 0:28:54a value sliced white,
0:28:54 > 0:28:56a medium-priced white toastie,
0:28:56 > 0:28:59a mid-priced loaf of sliced wholemeal,
0:28:59 > 0:29:01and a premium seeded loaf.
0:29:01 > 0:29:03Which bread do you buy, out of this table?
0:29:03 > 0:29:07I have to buy two, cos my children don't like wholemeal,
0:29:07 > 0:29:09so I have white and wholemeal.
0:29:09 > 0:29:11And what do you think is the difference between the two?
0:29:11 > 0:29:14I mean, apart from the fact that one's brown and one's white!
0:29:14 > 0:29:16Well, this has more taste, obviously.
0:29:16 > 0:29:18This is healthier for you, really.
0:29:18 > 0:29:21Out of all these slices of bread, which one would you buy?
0:29:21 > 0:29:24- Ooh. This one.- This one?- Yeah, I would go for that one as well.
0:29:24 > 0:29:27- You both would buy the white. - Yeah.- Why's that?
0:29:27 > 0:29:29I like white bread a lot more, personally.
0:29:29 > 0:29:34I'd probably be buying the wholemeal of these, most likely.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36And do you ever buy white?
0:29:36 > 0:29:38- Yes, I do occasionally buy white. - Why's that?
0:29:40 > 0:29:41I think white tastes better.
0:29:41 > 0:29:44Do you think there's much difference, really,
0:29:44 > 0:29:46between the brown and the white?
0:29:46 > 0:29:48I know there's more fibre in the brown.
0:29:48 > 0:29:51But generally, bread is bread.
0:29:51 > 0:29:54It's carbohydrates - it's not necessary good for us
0:29:54 > 0:29:56in large quantities, whatever we choose.
0:29:58 > 0:30:01It's interesting - while most chose the wholemeal loaf,
0:30:01 > 0:30:03because they thought it would be better for them,
0:30:03 > 0:30:07they said they actually preferred the taste of the white.
0:30:07 > 0:30:09And it's true that wholemeal and seeded loaves
0:30:09 > 0:30:10are the healthier choice,
0:30:10 > 0:30:14but white is not exactly a nutritional no-go.
0:30:14 > 0:30:17It does contain more salt and sugar than other loaves,
0:30:17 > 0:30:20but it has less fat and calories than the brown.
0:30:20 > 0:30:23Well, this one actually is higher in calories than the white.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26- Really?- Yes.- Wow! - Does that surprise you?
0:30:26 > 0:30:29Yes, I would've thought, if anything, they were very similar.
0:30:29 > 0:30:33- This one has a few more calories in it than the white.- My word!
0:30:33 > 0:30:36So you really don't know what you're eating nowadays, do you?
0:30:36 > 0:30:38I'm so took back with that. That's mad.
0:30:38 > 0:30:43Those higher calories come from good fats and fibre, thanks to the seeds
0:30:43 > 0:30:47and wholemeal flour, something that the white simply can't compete on.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49But it puts up a better fight on other fronts.
0:30:49 > 0:30:53Looking back, white bread has been made to be good for us
0:30:53 > 0:30:54ever since the Second World War,
0:30:54 > 0:30:57when the Government started fortifying the typical loaf
0:30:57 > 0:30:59with added vitamins and minerals.
0:30:59 > 0:31:04Even today, white bread is fortified with calcium, iron and B vitamins,
0:31:04 > 0:31:09and in some cases can contain more calcium than its wholemeal cousins.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12That's just one of the reasons Linia Patel, who's a nutritionist,
0:31:12 > 0:31:15believes that bread of whatever colour can be good for us.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18So, very commonly, people come to me and they say
0:31:18 > 0:31:20they're not eating bread because bread is fattening.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22I think it's just a myth.
0:31:22 > 0:31:25I think we associate bread being a carbohydrate
0:31:25 > 0:31:28and we associate carbohydrates being fattening for us.
0:31:28 > 0:31:30Actually, that's not the case.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33Bread can definitely be healthy and it's got key ingredients,
0:31:33 > 0:31:35so it's a good source of fibre.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38Also, if you're going for a higher-fibre bread,
0:31:38 > 0:31:42you're going to get B vitamins, minerals like iron and magnesium.
0:31:42 > 0:31:47While white bread does contain fibre, whole-wheat can contain three
0:31:47 > 0:31:51or four times as much, something we don't eat enough of in the UK.
0:31:51 > 0:31:55That may be why, in an attempt to tackle declining sales,
0:31:55 > 0:31:58M&S recently announced it would be adding fibre to all its white bread
0:31:58 > 0:32:01and rolls to make them more nutritious.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04The store says it's "bread with benefits" is being introduced
0:32:04 > 0:32:08because the days of the traditional white loaf are numbered.
0:32:08 > 0:32:12But while it's true that we're now spoilt for alternatives,
0:32:12 > 0:32:15there's no escaping white bread is still the UK's favourite.
0:32:15 > 0:32:17And because we no longer buy it every day,
0:32:17 > 0:32:20we expect it to last longer than it used to.
0:32:20 > 0:32:24Morris Bakers in Chorley turns out tens of thousands of rolls
0:32:24 > 0:32:26and loaves every single week.
0:32:26 > 0:32:30That kind of mass production relies on speed, so this bread is made
0:32:30 > 0:32:33very differently to the traditional methods.
0:32:33 > 0:32:35The demand for a soft white loaf
0:32:35 > 0:32:38or the soft sandwich rolls, et cetera,
0:32:38 > 0:32:42is still massive, so to fulfil that demand
0:32:42 > 0:32:46we need to make it in a manner that puts out the big-time elements.
0:32:46 > 0:32:50Traditionally, bread dough needs to be left for anything up to
0:32:50 > 0:32:53three hours to let the yeast ferment and the bread to rise.
0:32:53 > 0:32:55But modern baking methods
0:32:55 > 0:32:57have cut that fermentation process right down,
0:32:57 > 0:33:00thanks to the use of additives
0:33:00 > 0:33:02that do the job in a fraction of the time.
0:33:02 > 0:33:07We need to add emulsifiers, fats and sugars and ascorbic acid,
0:33:07 > 0:33:12which help the dough to mature in a short period of time.
0:33:12 > 0:33:16The modern process not only cuts down the time it takes to produce
0:33:16 > 0:33:19one loaf from anything up to five hours to less than three,
0:33:19 > 0:33:23but it also means that bread has a longer shelf life.
0:33:23 > 0:33:27The major benefit of making bread this way is that the consumer
0:33:27 > 0:33:29gets a loaf, as long as they keep it wrapped up,
0:33:29 > 0:33:32they can keep it for a number of days
0:33:32 > 0:33:34and they are having little waste.
0:33:35 > 0:33:37Many of the natural nutrients are lost
0:33:37 > 0:33:41when flour is milled for white bread, but because it's the law that
0:33:41 > 0:33:45our white loaves must have all that extra calcium, iron and B vitamins,
0:33:45 > 0:33:49on balance, experts say there's no significant difference between
0:33:49 > 0:33:52the nutritional content of a traditional loaf and a modern one.
0:33:52 > 0:33:56But whether it's white, wholemeal, gluten free or rye,
0:33:56 > 0:34:01the bread Linia crowns best of all is the kind you make yourself.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03Go home and try bake your own bread
0:34:03 > 0:34:07or if you can't do that, just go to your local baker,
0:34:07 > 0:34:10because what you're going to get is you're going to get bread
0:34:10 > 0:34:12that just has five basic ingredients.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15Your flour, your yeast, your oil, your salt and your water.
0:34:16 > 0:34:18And if that's not practical,
0:34:18 > 0:34:21one reason why sales of mass-produced sliced bread
0:34:21 > 0:34:23have been declining is
0:34:23 > 0:34:25because more people have switched to buying bread from a part of
0:34:25 > 0:34:29the supermarket where you'll find a simpler, fresher loaf.
0:34:29 > 0:34:32If you go to the supermarket's bakery
0:34:32 > 0:34:35and get one of the loaves that's freshly baked,
0:34:35 > 0:34:39that's going to be better for you than actually buying a loaf of bread
0:34:39 > 0:34:42that are going to be pre-packed in the supermarket.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45Of course that goes for all loaves, not just white,
0:34:45 > 0:34:48and whilst it seems that the white-sliced loaf isn't quite
0:34:48 > 0:34:51the nutritional no-go area it's often thought to be,
0:34:51 > 0:34:53Linia's own choice would always be something
0:34:53 > 0:34:55that's little bit more wholesome.
0:34:55 > 0:34:57Go for something wholegrain and seeded
0:34:57 > 0:35:00because what we get in the wholegrain and seeded is fibre.
0:35:00 > 0:35:02Now, fibre is a really important nutrient
0:35:02 > 0:35:03that helps our guts work better,
0:35:03 > 0:35:05but it also helps balance our blood sugar levels
0:35:05 > 0:35:08and control our appetite, which is essential
0:35:08 > 0:35:11if we're managing our weight or if you just want to be healthier.
0:35:18 > 0:35:22Now, earlier I found out how 30 years of health advice
0:35:22 > 0:35:24telling us not to eat certain fats
0:35:24 > 0:35:28because they'd cause heart disease has now been disproven, meaning
0:35:28 > 0:35:31we shouldn't worry about putting some good old-fashioned fats
0:35:31 > 0:35:32back on the menu.
0:35:32 > 0:35:36The same thing happened with eggs and the health message this time,
0:35:36 > 0:35:40though again has been disproven, has been a very tough one to shake.
0:35:41 > 0:35:45When I was growing up, eggs were the original superfood,
0:35:45 > 0:35:47before the term had even been coined.
0:35:47 > 0:35:51Eggs is cheap, full of proteins,
0:35:51 > 0:35:54and what's more, they helps you to face up to the day.
0:35:54 > 0:35:56And to face up to her, I need 'em.
0:35:56 > 0:36:00Ah, yes, there's a lot more goodness in eggs than people realise.
0:36:01 > 0:36:06Marvellous. In the 1960s, we ate up to five eggs a week each.
0:36:06 > 0:36:10But less that 20 years later, the mighty egg fell from grace.
0:36:10 > 0:36:15In 1988, the then Health Secretary Edwina Currie announced that most of
0:36:15 > 0:36:17the egg production in the country at the time
0:36:17 > 0:36:19was affected with salmonella.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21The advice is not to eat raw eggs
0:36:21 > 0:36:24or uncooked food containing raw eggs.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27To be absolutely safe, they should be hard boiled...
0:36:27 > 0:36:29despite consumer resistance.
0:36:30 > 0:36:34Egg sales fell 60% overnight and didn't recover
0:36:34 > 0:36:37because shortly after came more bad news.
0:36:37 > 0:36:40We were told that eggs were packed with cholesterol,
0:36:40 > 0:36:43which caused heart disease, so we should limit how many we ate.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45And as recently as 2012,
0:36:45 > 0:36:47one headline even declared eggs
0:36:47 > 0:36:49that were as bad for you as smoking.
0:36:49 > 0:36:51The yolk is what they're saying
0:36:51 > 0:36:54is bad for you, in terms of eggs now, from what I've been reading.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57The white is what everyone is going crazy about.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00Well, I think we've reached a point that you're actually frightened
0:37:00 > 0:37:03to know what you can eat any more, cos of all the headlines,
0:37:03 > 0:37:06you think, "Oh, my God, today I can't eat bacon,
0:37:06 > 0:37:09- "tomorrow I can't eat gluten." - Eggs or dairy.
0:37:09 > 0:37:13So I think everybody is really quite confused about what to eat.
0:37:13 > 0:37:17It's a similar scare story to the one we heard about earlier,
0:37:17 > 0:37:20which turned us away from saturated fats.
0:37:20 > 0:37:22But in this case it was worse
0:37:22 > 0:37:24because while eating too many saturated fats,
0:37:24 > 0:37:27or indeed any fats, still isn't a good idea,
0:37:27 > 0:37:30when it comes to eggs, it now seems that all
0:37:30 > 0:37:34the time they were as healthy as we'd been told in the first place.
0:37:34 > 0:37:36So to find out if one of my favourite foods
0:37:36 > 0:37:38is all it's cracked up to be, I've come back to see
0:37:38 > 0:37:42Prof Bruce Griffin at the University of Surrey.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45Professor, for many years now we've heard the controversy,
0:37:45 > 0:37:47too many eggs are not good.
0:37:47 > 0:37:50Where do you stand on the mechanics of all that?
0:37:50 > 0:37:53Well, for many years, there was this popular misunderstanding that
0:37:53 > 0:37:55the cholesterol in eggs,
0:37:55 > 0:37:57which is actually contained in the egg yolk,
0:37:57 > 0:38:00is the same as cholesterol that gets into our arteries
0:38:00 > 0:38:03and causes heart disease, and they're really not the same thing.
0:38:03 > 0:38:07When scientists began to study the link between cholesterol
0:38:07 > 0:38:09and heart disease in the '70s,
0:38:09 > 0:38:12any foods high in cholesterol became suspect.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15And with one egg containing two-thirds of your recommended
0:38:15 > 0:38:18daily amount, it's no surprise that they very quickly found themselves
0:38:18 > 0:38:20off the breakfast table.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22But the science simply wasn't sound.
0:38:22 > 0:38:25There was no evidence to suggest that the cholesterol in eggs
0:38:25 > 0:38:30was leading to increased coronary disease and coronary heart disease.
0:38:30 > 0:38:33We've now found out that the amount of saturated fat
0:38:33 > 0:38:36has a much greater effect on your blood cholesterol than
0:38:36 > 0:38:41the relatively small amounts of cholesterol in food like eggs.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44And that's what's behind the change in advice.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47It had previously been assumed that eggs and saturated fats
0:38:47 > 0:38:51both had a similar effect on the level of cholesterol in your blood.
0:38:51 > 0:38:52But that's not the case.
0:38:52 > 0:38:56And it's now accepted that saturated fats have a much bigger impact.
0:38:56 > 0:39:00So eggs, which result in far less cholesterol remaining in your blood,
0:39:00 > 0:39:02are off the hook.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06And yet, in the '80s and '90s, we were giving up eggs in our droves
0:39:06 > 0:39:09because we were told that more than three or four eggs a week
0:39:09 > 0:39:10would be bad for us.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14That had a devastating impact on egg farmers like David Brass.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17In the mid to late '80s, we had all sorts of scares -
0:39:17 > 0:39:20cholesterol in eggs was bad for you, eggs are bad for you,
0:39:20 > 0:39:23because there's fats in them, and Edwina did her bit
0:39:23 > 0:39:27and we saw the bottom of the market then, I guess. Then the market was
0:39:27 > 0:39:30very stable. It didn't grow much at all for years and years and years.
0:39:30 > 0:39:32It took until 2009
0:39:32 > 0:39:33for business to improve,
0:39:33 > 0:39:35after headlines like these
0:39:35 > 0:39:36proclaimed not only that
0:39:36 > 0:39:38eggs could now go back on the menu,
0:39:38 > 0:39:41but even that it was safe to eat them every day.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44And ever since, the good news has kept coming.
0:39:44 > 0:39:48It was a massive change in advice, and it seems extraordinary now
0:39:48 > 0:39:51that we'd been so put off of food that does us so much good.
0:39:51 > 0:39:55Eggs are designed to support life, so they contain a very
0:39:55 > 0:39:57broad profile of micronutrients
0:39:57 > 0:40:01and a very high grade of protein as well.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03If there was to be a superfood,
0:40:03 > 0:40:07an egg has to be the superfood because of its nutrient composition.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10So I could have as many eggs as I want per week, give or take?
0:40:10 > 0:40:13Well, it's perfectly safe to have up to seven eggs a week
0:40:13 > 0:40:15or an egg a day, as we used to say.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18"Go to work on an egg" used to be a famous slogan
0:40:18 > 0:40:20and that certainly isn't going to cause us any harm,
0:40:20 > 0:40:23but we don't want to eat anything in excess.
0:40:23 > 0:40:27I have to say, that old slogan "go to work on an egg", actually,
0:40:27 > 0:40:31I genuinely find that I work well on eggs. How good are they for you?
0:40:31 > 0:40:34Well, they are an excellent source of dietary protein,
0:40:34 > 0:40:38and we've just completed some studies to show that
0:40:38 > 0:40:43the dietary protein can actually suppress your appetite throughout
0:40:43 > 0:40:47the day and increase that feeling of fullness, so you tend to snack less.
0:40:47 > 0:40:49And what's it better than?
0:40:49 > 0:40:52Well, the protein in an egg, for example,
0:40:52 > 0:40:54is more bio available to us than
0:40:54 > 0:40:57the protein you get from fillet steak, for example.
0:40:57 > 0:40:59Better than a fillet steak?
0:40:59 > 0:41:02Better than a fillet steak, with respect to protein.
0:41:02 > 0:41:06Well, well. I've long been a fan of eggs,
0:41:06 > 0:41:09but that comparison with steak I'd never heard before.
0:41:09 > 0:41:12And I must say, I've been sharing it with people ever since I heard it.
0:41:12 > 0:41:15But off the back of that much more positive health message,
0:41:15 > 0:41:18sales of eggs have been rising, and as a nation we now bake,
0:41:18 > 0:41:22boil, scramble and poach almost a billion of them every month.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25That's great news for producers such as David.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28The market has grown almost exponentially in the
0:41:28 > 0:41:30last couple of years, it's a wonderful place to be.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33The last 12 months has been almost like a perfect storm,
0:41:33 > 0:41:36more and more good news about eggs, so we sell more because of that.
0:41:36 > 0:41:38You just can't get the eggs.
0:41:38 > 0:41:39The stores are empty all the time,
0:41:39 > 0:41:42double-digit growth month after month after month.
0:41:42 > 0:41:44The egg industry is booming again.
0:41:44 > 0:41:47But of course when advice on an issue like this
0:41:47 > 0:41:50changes in such a dramatic way, it can cause real confusion.
0:41:50 > 0:41:52I'm old enough to have been through, "It was good for you,
0:41:52 > 0:41:54"now it's bad for you, now it's good for you,"
0:41:54 > 0:41:58so I just don't take any notice, I just don't listen to them.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01Thing is, they do a big issue on, like,
0:42:01 > 0:42:05"Don't eat eggs. Don't do this, don't do that, don't do the other."
0:42:05 > 0:42:07So everybody doesn't do it,
0:42:07 > 0:42:11but 12 months down the line, when you've given up something
0:42:11 > 0:42:14that you quite like, then they say,
0:42:14 > 0:42:17- "We're sorry, we got it wrong." - "Eggs are all right."
0:42:17 > 0:42:19"Eggs are all right to eat."
0:42:19 > 0:42:22I think, in another study a few years ago, it said,
0:42:22 > 0:42:25"Too many eggs will cause you cholesterol,"
0:42:25 > 0:42:27but now it's, "Eggs are fine."
0:42:27 > 0:42:33Again, it's just that flip-flop media sensationalism.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37The reality is that science just doesn't stand still.
0:42:37 > 0:42:40And when new information is discovered or released,
0:42:40 > 0:42:44the coverage it gets can sometimes end up muddying the real message.
0:42:44 > 0:42:47Do you find it as frustrating as the general public,
0:42:47 > 0:42:50the way the studies sort of change their mind all the time?
0:42:50 > 0:42:52It's not really new information.
0:42:52 > 0:42:55It's just looking at old studies and re-examining old data
0:42:55 > 0:42:58and finding that when you remove the effects of saturated fat
0:42:58 > 0:43:01and you look at dietary cholesterol in isolation,
0:43:01 > 0:43:03it has a relatively small effect.
0:43:03 > 0:43:06Eggs is full of proteins, very economical and...
0:43:06 > 0:43:08Full of nourishment and wonderful value for money.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11'We may not yet be eating quite as many eggs as we did in
0:43:11 > 0:43:12'Tony Hancock's day,
0:43:12 > 0:43:15'but maybe it's time to wheel out those old ads once again.'
0:43:15 > 0:43:18Look, six eggs and only five soldiers.
0:43:24 > 0:43:27It can be extremely frustrating not to mention confusing
0:43:27 > 0:43:30when new reports pop up out of the blue saying the complete opposite
0:43:30 > 0:43:33of things we've long believed to be true.
0:43:33 > 0:43:35Now, the tricky thing of course can be knowing
0:43:35 > 0:43:38which new advice to follow and which to take with a dose of salt.
0:43:38 > 0:43:41And while hopefully we've helped you a little bit with that today,
0:43:41 > 0:43:44if in doubt, take a common-sense approach before
0:43:44 > 0:43:47- cutting something out of your diet entirely.- Absolutely.
0:43:47 > 0:43:50If you only eat the food that's suddenly bad every now and then,
0:43:50 > 0:43:53well, that's usually going to be fine to carry on doing so.
0:43:53 > 0:43:56But just remember, you'll find more on some of the topics
0:43:56 > 0:44:00we're discussing throughout this series at bbc.co.uk/food
0:44:00 > 0:44:02But I'm afraid that's all from us now.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05- Until the next time, goodbye. - Thank you for your company, bye-bye.