0:00:02 > 0:00:05There's a lot we don't know about the food on our plates
0:00:05 > 0:00:08and the shops and the labels don't always tell you the whole story.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12I think they encourage you to buy more than you need.
0:00:12 > 0:00:14And that causes a lot of waste.
0:00:14 > 0:00:18Whether you're staying in or going out,
0:00:18 > 0:00:21you've told us that you can feel ripped off by the promises made
0:00:21 > 0:00:25for what you eat - and what you pay for it.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27It makes my blood boil,
0:00:27 > 0:00:30because I feel like they are tricking people.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33From claims that just don't stack up
0:00:33 > 0:00:34to the secrets behind the packaging,
0:00:34 > 0:00:37we uncover the truth about Britain's food
0:00:37 > 0:00:40so that you can be sure you're getting what you expect
0:00:40 > 0:00:43at the right price. Your food - your money.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46This is Rip-Off Britain.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50Hello and welcome to Rip Off Britain,
0:00:50 > 0:00:54investigating today some very meaty problems to do with our food.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57It's not too long ago, of course, that the news was dominated
0:00:57 > 0:01:01by the horsemeat scandal, which we all remember,
0:01:01 > 0:01:04which revealed that the meat in some of our bestselling products
0:01:04 > 0:01:07just was not what we thought it was.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10I think that's really what people objected to most.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12Because we paid for one thing and got another.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16And it's reckoned that since then, up to a quarter of us
0:01:16 > 0:01:18have cut back on the amount of meat we eat.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20And there's no doubt that, rightly or wrongly, many of us
0:01:20 > 0:01:22remain wary of cheaper meats
0:01:22 > 0:01:24that perhaps we consider poorer quality,
0:01:24 > 0:01:27or we're not sure where it's come from.
0:01:27 > 0:01:30Exactly. So we'll be taking a closer look at meat content,
0:01:30 > 0:01:33and revealing some of the unexpected problems
0:01:33 > 0:01:36that might be lurking inside.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38Because whilst the issue with horsemeat
0:01:38 > 0:01:40essentially boiled down to labelling,
0:01:40 > 0:01:43it's clear that all too often the meat we buy
0:01:43 > 0:01:46leads to consequences
0:01:46 > 0:01:49that are a lot more serious than just that.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Coming up, the nasty food poisoning bug
0:01:52 > 0:01:55striking half a million people a year.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59So why is there still so much of it in our supermarket chicken?
0:01:59 > 0:02:02I just can't believe that these products are being
0:02:02 > 0:02:06put on our shelves and putting people's lives in danger.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09A year after horsemeat, a test to prove
0:02:09 > 0:02:13if your meat's what it's supposed to be.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17And that will allow us to be able to show whether the beef was beef
0:02:17 > 0:02:18or if it was something else.
0:02:18 > 0:02:22And TB in beef and hepatitis in sausages.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25We've the truth behind the latest scare stories,
0:02:25 > 0:02:28and advice to make sure your meat is safe.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30Do you use the thermometer every time?
0:02:30 > 0:02:33I do actually for meats, yes.
0:02:33 > 0:02:35- Do you? Oh, my goodness! - How else do you know?
0:02:35 > 0:02:37When we buy our food,
0:02:37 > 0:02:41if there's one thing we take for granted it's that it should be safe.
0:02:41 > 0:02:43But is that always the case?
0:02:43 > 0:02:47One million of us are struck down by food poisoning every year,
0:02:47 > 0:02:49and it's a problem that's getting worse.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52For most, the result of that is a nasty tummy bug,
0:02:52 > 0:02:55but for hundreds of others, it can be fatal.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58We know that most cases come from meat,
0:02:58 > 0:03:01but there's one particular type of food poisoning which,
0:03:01 > 0:03:05according to some, is reaching epidemic proportions.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12What kind of food poisoning have you ever heard of?
0:03:12 > 0:03:16- Um...- Like what bugs have you ever heard of?
0:03:16 > 0:03:19Well, E. coli...
0:03:19 > 0:03:21- Salmonella...- Yeah.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24I don't know!
0:03:24 > 0:03:27Erm, probably Staphylococcus I think is one of them?
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Yeah - anything else?
0:03:29 > 0:03:32I know there's three others but I can't really remember them.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37There's one food poisoning bug that affects more of us
0:03:37 > 0:03:39in this country than any other.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42In fact, in any one year some half a million of us
0:03:42 > 0:03:45are likely to be affected by it, and it's generally accepted that we'll
0:03:45 > 0:03:49probably pick it up from chicken, which is Britain's favourite meat.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52The question is, do you know the name of the bug?
0:03:57 > 0:03:59Have you ever heard of this? Could you say that for me?
0:04:00 > 0:04:02Campylobacter.
0:04:02 > 0:04:03Not bad!
0:04:06 > 0:04:08- Have you ever heard of that? - No, I haven't.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11- It will give you a nasty case of food poisoning.- Oh, my goodness.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16Campylobacter is a bug naturally found in the guts of chickens.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20Although it doesn't make the animal ill, it's highly infectious,
0:04:20 > 0:04:23so a whole flock of chickens can easily be affected.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27Cooking meat thoroughly usually kills the bacteria.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30But one person who knows just how nasty it can be
0:04:30 > 0:04:34when that doesn't happen is Sue Ballantyne.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37She fell ill in the run-up to Christmas 2012 -
0:04:37 > 0:04:40but at first had no idea what was wrong with her.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42I was sick initially.
0:04:42 > 0:04:47I then started with diarrhoea and I was shaking uncontrollably,
0:04:47 > 0:04:52very high temperature, and just generally very unwell.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54My husband was very concerned about me -
0:04:54 > 0:04:56he actually rang the emergency doctor
0:04:56 > 0:04:58because the symptoms were so severe.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01And as the days progressed, it didn't get any better.
0:05:01 > 0:05:06I continued to have stomach cramps, I was aching from head to toe.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09Spiking high temperatures.
0:05:09 > 0:05:13We realised that it couldn't be just a sickness bug,
0:05:13 > 0:05:16and it was at this point I consulted the doctor.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19It was very worrying because I felt extremely unwell.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23And I really didn't know what was causing my symptoms.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27If it had been a sickness bug I would have been over it in 24 hours
0:05:27 > 0:05:32but the symptoms just continued to be really bad.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36It was only when Sue's doctor sent off samples to the lab
0:05:36 > 0:05:39that campylobacter was identified as the cause.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42I had never heard of it before.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45We hear about food poisoning like salmonella but I had never heard
0:05:45 > 0:05:51of campylobacter before so I was really unsure of what it involved.
0:05:51 > 0:05:53Er...
0:05:53 > 0:05:57I was told it would have to be reported to the Public Health Agency
0:05:57 > 0:05:59because it is a public health risk.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02Sue's campylobacter was traced back
0:06:02 > 0:06:04to a chicken liver parfait she'd eaten
0:06:04 > 0:06:09at a restaurant where several other customers had also been infected.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12She was treated with antibiotics, but as many of those
0:06:12 > 0:06:16hit by campylobacter know, recovery can be slow.
0:06:16 > 0:06:22I was two weeks before I could tolerate food going into my body
0:06:22 > 0:06:26and I lost over a stone in weight in those two weeks.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30Sarah O'Brien is a Professor of Public Health who dismisses
0:06:30 > 0:06:34any idea that food poisoning is in any way a mild or trivial illness.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38Anybody who has actually had campylobacter infection,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41they can have really, really bad stomach pain.
0:06:41 > 0:06:45For some people the consequences can be even more severe.
0:06:45 > 0:06:48And in my practising lifetime I have seen a patient
0:06:48 > 0:06:52who became paralysed after having campylobacter infection.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54Like many of her fellow doctors,
0:06:54 > 0:06:59Sarah is worried about just how prevalent campylobacter has become.
0:06:59 > 0:07:03We have seen a relentless increase in the cases of campylobacter
0:07:03 > 0:07:05since it was first discovered in 1977.
0:07:05 > 0:07:09It means there is more campylobacter in the environment around us.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13Now, it might be on any kind of farm holding.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16It might be in your own kitchen
0:07:16 > 0:07:18if you are not very good at cleaning surfaces.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21And one of the things we are learning about campylobacter
0:07:21 > 0:07:24is that it is a much more robust organism
0:07:24 > 0:07:27than we had previously believed it to be.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30We do know that the most common cause
0:07:30 > 0:07:33is related to eating contaminated poultry.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36And we eat a lot of chicken in this country.
0:07:36 > 0:07:39The last time the Food Standards Agency checked,
0:07:39 > 0:07:43they discovered that some two-thirds of the raw chicken
0:07:43 > 0:07:46that's sold in the UK is infected by campylobacter.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50And at the same time, more and more of us are falling ill
0:07:50 > 0:07:52as a result of these bugs.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55The fact that the bacteria is present in so many of our chickens
0:07:55 > 0:07:59is something that makes people who've had the illness livid.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04It makes me feel very upset and angry, that food is being
0:08:04 > 0:08:09put on our supermarket shelves that contains this bacteria.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12I was severely ill from campylobacter poisoning
0:08:12 > 0:08:18but I know people can have even worse effects than what I did.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23And especially in the old and the young, symptoms can be really bad,
0:08:23 > 0:08:27so I just can't believe that these products are being
0:08:27 > 0:08:32put on our shelves and putting people's lives in danger.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35With so many people falling ill, should the poultry industry
0:08:35 > 0:08:38that supplies the nation's chickens
0:08:38 > 0:08:41be doing much more to tackle campylobacter?
0:08:41 > 0:08:43Later in the programme, we'll be asking them just that.
0:08:43 > 0:08:47So it's to worrying proportions now with very little concrete evidence
0:08:47 > 0:08:52coming through in terms of stopping it or controlling it,
0:08:52 > 0:08:53so what are you doing?
0:08:53 > 0:08:56And we'll reveal what you can do at home
0:08:56 > 0:08:59to keep Britain's nastiest food poisoning bug at bay.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07I'm at a top-class butcher's,
0:09:07 > 0:09:11but scandals about the type of meat we may inadvertently be eating
0:09:11 > 0:09:15pale into insignificance when compared to the dire consequences
0:09:15 > 0:09:16of eating more familiar meats
0:09:16 > 0:09:19that some recent headlines have warned us about.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22Hepatitis in sausages, cows infected with TB.
0:09:22 > 0:09:26In fact, if you were to believe all the reports of the deadly diseases
0:09:26 > 0:09:28infecting our steaks and burgers,
0:09:28 > 0:09:31you might say you'd never so much as sniff a sausage again.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34So how worried should we be?
0:09:34 > 0:09:36And should we be saying bye to our bangers
0:09:36 > 0:09:38or just being a bit more careful
0:09:38 > 0:09:41about how we treat and cook our meat?
0:09:44 > 0:09:48Headlines predicting infection, illness or even possible death
0:09:48 > 0:09:51from the meat that we buy are hard to miss.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56Whether it's deadly sausages, toxic steaks or killer beef burgers,
0:09:56 > 0:10:00it would seem from the papers that most of our favourite meals
0:10:00 > 0:10:01come with a terrifying risk.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05So how worried do scare stories like these make you feel
0:10:05 > 0:10:09about what's in the meat you put on your plate?
0:10:09 > 0:10:13One in ten sausages may carry the hepatitis virus.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Cows with TB have entered the human food chain.
0:10:16 > 0:10:18TB beef ends up on our tables.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21Now, does that bother you about meat?
0:10:21 > 0:10:24It does shock me, to think that people are selling it, basically,
0:10:24 > 0:10:28and that we don't really know as a customer that it's in it.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31How do you react to headlines like these?
0:10:31 > 0:10:34Alarmingly! Really badly.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37I'm not being snobbish, but I wouldn't buy the cheaper end of meat
0:10:37 > 0:10:40because I am worried, especially burgers.
0:10:40 > 0:10:42I make my own beef burgers.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46So if it's good quality meat, then surely it doesn't matter
0:10:46 > 0:10:48if it's a little bit pink in the middle.
0:10:48 > 0:10:52But if it's bought things, I do tend to cook them.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55What's your reaction to those headlines?
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Er...I wish all of them were untrue.
0:10:58 > 0:11:01It's very hard to know whether to believe
0:11:01 > 0:11:04everything you read in the papers these days.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07The question is, what's the truth?
0:11:07 > 0:11:11Should we avoid meat altogether, or should we just be more careful?
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Sometimes it can be very difficult to pick your way through information
0:11:14 > 0:11:17that appears to be conflicting.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19On the one hand, for example,
0:11:19 > 0:11:23the Government department responsible for vetting such things,
0:11:23 > 0:11:26the Food Standards Agency, does allow beef from cows
0:11:26 > 0:11:28that they know have been infected with TB
0:11:28 > 0:11:30onto the supermarket shelves.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33But on the other hand, although it would be perfectly legal
0:11:33 > 0:11:36to sell it, some of the supermarkets we spoke to
0:11:36 > 0:11:38said that they won't accept this meat
0:11:38 > 0:11:42even if the FSA has deemed it safe.
0:11:42 > 0:11:44It may not be clear who to believe,
0:11:44 > 0:11:48but one thing everyone does seem to agree on is how to destroy
0:11:48 > 0:11:52whatever nasties might be nestling within our meats.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55In other words, cooking them properly. Which sounds easy.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58But unfortunately, as microbiologist Dr Lisa Ackerley explains,
0:11:58 > 0:12:01it's not something we always get right.
0:12:01 > 0:12:05So we've got some beef burgers, some steak and some sausages.
0:12:05 > 0:12:06Lisa's going to show me
0:12:06 > 0:12:10how thoroughly everything needs to be cooked.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12And first on the menu, beef burgers.
0:12:12 > 0:12:18In 2012, more than 1,000 people contracted E. coli in the UK.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21So how can you avoid becoming one of the statistics?
0:12:21 > 0:12:26What we're trying to do here is cook it all the way through.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29We are keeping this flicking all the time
0:12:29 > 0:12:31to make sure it is cooked through correctly.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33That's right - it keeps it juicy as well, apparently.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37Obviously I don't just want it to be safe, I want it to be tasty!
0:12:37 > 0:12:40- So you tell me when you think this burger might be cooked.- OK.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43'But it turns out that just looking at the burger
0:12:43 > 0:12:45'and guessing when it might be ready to eat
0:12:45 > 0:12:47'doesn't mean it's safe to do so.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50'This one may look done, but it's not.'
0:12:50 > 0:12:52So I think my hamburger is done now.
0:12:52 > 0:12:54Well, we only know by checking the temperature.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56Do you use the thermometer every time?
0:12:56 > 0:12:58I do, actually, for meats, yes.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01- Do you? Oh, my goodness. - How else do you know?
0:13:01 > 0:13:04- So what are we looking for here? - We're looking for 75.
0:13:04 > 0:13:0775. Is that the average cooking temperature?
0:13:07 > 0:13:1175 is the temperature that would actually kill the bacteria
0:13:11 > 0:13:12in the centre of the burger.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17So that is 68 at the moment.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19- So that wouldn't be enough. - So not enough.- No.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22'Another couple of minutes in the frying pan
0:13:22 > 0:13:25'and the beef burger is at 75 degrees -
0:13:25 > 0:13:28'enough to kill any harmful bacteria that might be lurking around.'
0:13:28 > 0:13:30- It's now cooked.- It's now cooked.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33'Next, it's the good old British banger.
0:13:33 > 0:13:35'With recent reports suggesting that one in ten
0:13:35 > 0:13:38'could be carrying Hepatitis E,
0:13:38 > 0:13:40'should we now be avoiding those as well?'
0:13:40 > 0:13:44With sausages I do think they are hard to cook all the way through
0:13:44 > 0:13:47- unless you are doing them very, very slowly.- Yeah.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51I think slow is the key because if you brown them very quickly
0:13:51 > 0:13:53on the outside they may not be cooked in the middle.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56'Recent advice is that sausages need to be cooked
0:13:56 > 0:14:00'to at least 70 degrees throughout, for at least two minutes.'
0:14:02 > 0:14:04- It's cooked.- It's cooked.
0:14:06 > 0:14:08And finally - beef.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12The headlines would have us believe that TB has infected our meat,
0:14:12 > 0:14:16but nonetheless, we're still buying it and taking it home.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19But here again cooking it right should do the trick.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23The thing with the steak is that it doesn't really matter what
0:14:23 > 0:14:27the temperature is of that, because as long as it's seared all over...
0:14:27 > 0:14:29Any bacteria that might be on the outside will be killed it,
0:14:29 > 0:14:31- is that the theory? - Yeah, that's right.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33Basically, you're looking at using the temperature of the oil
0:14:33 > 0:14:36- to kill any bacteria on the outside. - Yeah.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41Well, I suppose it is reassuring to know that any bacteria on the meat
0:14:41 > 0:14:44can be so effectively dealt with, although I must admit
0:14:44 > 0:14:47I hadn't realised quite how thoroughly some meats
0:14:47 > 0:14:49need to be cooked to make sure that they don't do us any harm.
0:14:51 > 0:14:56How do you react to the accusation that meat that's likely to have TB
0:14:56 > 0:14:59or E. coli or something in it,
0:14:59 > 0:15:03gets as far as the home, or hospitals or schools or anywhere?
0:15:03 > 0:15:05In an ideal world it wouldn't.
0:15:05 > 0:15:08At the moment we haven't been able to control it further down
0:15:08 > 0:15:12the food chain. We're sort of accepting that it's going to get
0:15:12 > 0:15:15mucky in the abattoir and that the end product is dirty.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17But I do know that an awful lot of work is being done
0:15:17 > 0:15:22by the Food Standards Agency to try to investigate ways of reducing
0:15:22 > 0:15:25the risk of contamination further down the chain,
0:15:25 > 0:15:27so that we end up with a cleaner product at this end.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33Of course all of this does beg the question - why is meat that carries
0:15:33 > 0:15:37any potential health risk whatsoever making it through to schools,
0:15:37 > 0:15:41restaurants, hospitals, and indeed our own homes?
0:15:41 > 0:15:45Well, that's exactly the question we put to the Food Standards Agency.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49We are confident that health risks from bovine TB in meat
0:15:49 > 0:15:52in the UK are low. Our inspectors are there on hand and they
0:15:52 > 0:15:56inspect all animals before they're slaughtered and inspect carcasses
0:15:56 > 0:16:01at the end of the process to make sure that they have been produced
0:16:01 > 0:16:03in a hygienic way, that they're fit for human consumption,
0:16:03 > 0:16:07and only then do they apply the health mark which says
0:16:07 > 0:16:09that carcass is fit for consumption.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13But should we be concerned that some supermarkets don't sell
0:16:13 > 0:16:15certain meats cleared for the food chain?
0:16:17 > 0:16:20It's a commercial decision for any of the supermarkets
0:16:20 > 0:16:24or other retailers to decide what they will and won't carry.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28That might be about things like whether the meat
0:16:28 > 0:16:31is from TB reactors, whether it's sourced from Britain or Ireland
0:16:31 > 0:16:33or from other countries, and those are just essentially
0:16:33 > 0:16:34commercial decisions.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38What we're very clear about is that there's a very low health risk
0:16:38 > 0:16:41from bovine TB from meat in the UK.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46However low, the risk of catching serious bugs from our meat
0:16:46 > 0:16:49remains a very real one, so the Food standards agency has
0:16:49 > 0:16:53some clear advice on how to treat your meat when you get it home.
0:16:54 > 0:16:59We're very active in reminding people about the four C's of hygiene
0:16:59 > 0:17:02in the home, so around not just cooking things properly
0:17:02 > 0:17:06but chilling and keeping food cool where it's meant to be cool,
0:17:06 > 0:17:10cleaning, washing your hands before and after preparing food,
0:17:10 > 0:17:13and making sure you clean knives and chopping boards and other utensils
0:17:13 > 0:17:18in very hot water. And also avoiding cross contamination
0:17:18 > 0:17:22by simple methods like not washing your poultry before you cook it.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26There always will be bugs on and in meat,
0:17:26 > 0:17:29and that's why it's important to treat food with some respect,
0:17:29 > 0:17:31and enjoy it when you've cooked it.
0:17:38 > 0:17:40Still to come on Rip Off Britain...
0:17:40 > 0:17:43With the horsemeat scandal a thing of the past,
0:17:43 > 0:17:45how has it changed the way we shop?
0:17:46 > 0:17:49I changed whether I was buying processed meat,
0:17:49 > 0:17:50I tend to buy fresh meat now.
0:17:52 > 0:17:56Now earlier in the programme we investigated the UK's biggest cause
0:17:56 > 0:17:58of food poisoning - campylobacter.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01The number of infections is at an all-time high
0:18:01 > 0:18:04with 22,000 people ending up in hospital every year,
0:18:04 > 0:18:07and it does seem that in almost all of those cases the bug
0:18:07 > 0:18:10has come from the raw chicken that we get in the shops.
0:18:10 > 0:18:14So why is it there? And shouldn't there be a way of getting rid of it
0:18:14 > 0:18:15before we buy it?
0:18:20 > 0:18:23When it comes to food, there are plenty of people who've
0:18:23 > 0:18:26handled it even before it hits the shop shelves.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30But when the majority of chicken for sale is likely to be infected
0:18:30 > 0:18:35with a nasty food poisoning bug, then that's a bit more unsettling.
0:18:35 > 0:18:39So who - in the chain from farm to fork - is to blame?
0:18:40 > 0:18:43Campylobacter in chicken starts on the farm,
0:18:43 > 0:18:47which makes the poultry industry the first place to come for answers.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50Are they doing enough to get rid of it?
0:18:50 > 0:18:53We spend millions of pounds on different initiatives
0:18:53 > 0:18:55to reduce the level of campylobacter.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58It's something that our members are absolutely committed to
0:18:58 > 0:19:01dealing with and we are looking forward to making some good progress
0:19:01 > 0:19:04in the near future on the reduction of those campylobacter levels.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06The problem is that progress is not being made.
0:19:06 > 0:19:10I mean nearly half a million people had the infection last year,
0:19:10 > 0:19:14so it's to worrying proportions now with very little concrete evidence
0:19:14 > 0:19:18coming through in terms of stopping it or controlling it,
0:19:18 > 0:19:20so what are you doing?
0:19:20 > 0:19:23Well, there's a lot of initiatives taking place right the way
0:19:23 > 0:19:27across the whole food supply chain, from the farm transport networks,
0:19:27 > 0:19:30food processing sites, retailers and packaging,
0:19:30 > 0:19:33and ultimately, also, that involves the consumer,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36because everybody has a responsibility for safe food.
0:19:36 > 0:19:38And there are clear consumer instructions on all
0:19:38 > 0:19:42poultry products, like safe handling about making sure the product
0:19:42 > 0:19:43is cooked thoroughly.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45But then it's the cart and the horse, isn't it?
0:19:45 > 0:19:47You're shoving that onto the consumer and saying,
0:19:47 > 0:19:49"Well, the consumer can deal with that."
0:19:49 > 0:19:52I mean, surely you should be dealing with this at source,
0:19:52 > 0:19:54at poultry farms to try and eliminate it.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57Absolutely. And we're absolutely committed to doing that.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59We're looking at on farm biosecurity.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02Campylobacter is a naturally occurring bacteria,
0:20:02 > 0:20:03it is everywhere in the environment.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06But we're doing everything we can on-farm with bio security,
0:20:06 > 0:20:11we're looking at how poultry is transported, we're looking at how
0:20:11 > 0:20:14it is processed, and at every stage we're exploring initiatives
0:20:14 > 0:20:17to reduce the level of campylobacter before it reaches the retailer.
0:20:17 > 0:20:19But are you frustrated by it that you're not making any headway?
0:20:19 > 0:20:21I think we're all frustrated about it.
0:20:21 > 0:20:23I think, unlike other bacteria,
0:20:23 > 0:20:25campylobacter is a very complex organism.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29It's extremely successful in mutating and changing
0:20:29 > 0:20:31and working in the natural environment.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35There's not going to be a silver bullet that sorts this problem out.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41And that silver bullet has proved elusive for the scientists
0:20:41 > 0:20:44who are battling with the bug in the lab.
0:20:44 > 0:20:48Campylobacter is a big challenge in public health terms.
0:20:48 > 0:20:52One of the ways of controlling campylobacter is trying to keep it
0:20:52 > 0:20:56out of chicken sheds in the first place, but that's no mean feat.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59It's a difficult thing to do.
0:20:59 > 0:21:04I think industry is trying very hard. Nobody wants to be selling
0:21:04 > 0:21:06a product that might make people ill.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08I think they're trying very hard to control it.
0:21:08 > 0:21:12I think what they're looking for is the scientist to be able to
0:21:12 > 0:21:14tell them what to do.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16So the scientists are scratching their heads,
0:21:16 > 0:21:18and the poultry industry say that
0:21:18 > 0:21:20they're doing everything they possibly can.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23And yet still there seems to be no change in the numbers
0:21:23 > 0:21:26of people that are affected by campylobacter.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28Now, the Food Standards Agency,
0:21:28 > 0:21:32which is funded by the taxpayer, is responsible for food safety
0:21:32 > 0:21:34and hygiene right across the UK.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36And so you'd assume that they would have the power
0:21:36 > 0:21:39to be able to bang a few heads together.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42But even they seem stuck on where to go.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47In the year 2000 when the Food Standards Agency was set up,
0:21:47 > 0:21:51it made a specific pledge to tackle campylobacter.
0:21:51 > 0:21:55Then in 2003 they published a strategy to deal with it.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58And two years later there was yet another target
0:21:58 > 0:22:00aiming for a 50% reduction.
0:22:02 > 0:22:06But then, in 2010, the FSA found campylobacter was present
0:22:06 > 0:22:10in around 65% of raw shop-bought chicken.
0:22:10 > 0:22:14So none of the FSA's strategies have worked.
0:22:14 > 0:22:15I would say you're not doing enough,
0:22:15 > 0:22:18that you've actually failed to control this or even to
0:22:18 > 0:22:20help control it.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23We've been trying very hard, but we haven't found the solution yet
0:22:23 > 0:22:27and we're continuing, we're renewing our strategy for controlling
0:22:27 > 0:22:30campylobacter, but it's something which people around the world
0:22:30 > 0:22:32have been working very hard on,
0:22:32 > 0:22:34and our own industry is working on it with us.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36But it's proving to be very difficult.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39You see, to me it all sounds like talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,
0:22:39 > 0:22:43you know? You're admitting in your reports that half a million people
0:22:43 > 0:22:44have it every year almost.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47I mean, surely there has to be more clamping down,
0:22:47 > 0:22:49faster and stronger on the industry?
0:22:49 > 0:22:52The industry is a very cost sensitive one,
0:22:52 > 0:22:56and so there are many things that we could do that would make them change
0:22:56 > 0:22:57and do certain things.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00But that would add cost to the cost of the chicken,
0:23:00 > 0:23:02which would add to the cost for consumers.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05But should the poultry industry not be sharing some of the cost?
0:23:05 > 0:23:07I mean, why should the cost either be at your end or my end?
0:23:07 > 0:23:08Why don't they bear the cost?
0:23:08 > 0:23:10Well, our chief executive's been very clear
0:23:10 > 0:23:13that the responsibility for fixing this is with the industry.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15They are the people that are producing it,
0:23:15 > 0:23:17they're marketing it, they're selling it,
0:23:17 > 0:23:19and so we're looking for them to take the initiative
0:23:19 > 0:23:20to make this happen.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24Is there any suggestion at all that you might force the industry,
0:23:24 > 0:23:26or indeed the retailer,
0:23:26 > 0:23:30to actually declare that this is prevalent in chicken?
0:23:30 > 0:23:33It's something we're constantly thinking about,
0:23:33 > 0:23:37but there's a very fine line between asking people to put information on
0:23:37 > 0:23:40their packaging and the impact that will have on consumers.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43We don't want to dent people's confidence in food
0:23:43 > 0:23:45or in the retail system.
0:23:45 > 0:23:48No-one that we spoke to could put their finger on a solution
0:23:48 > 0:23:50to the levels of infection.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53But they were all agreed on one thing, and that is
0:23:53 > 0:23:57that it's down to us as consumers to tackle it ourselves.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59Observe scrupulous kitchen hygiene.
0:23:59 > 0:24:00Clean as you go along.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03Wash our hands after we've handled raw poultry.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05Make sure you cook your chicken properly,
0:24:05 > 0:24:07because cooking your chicken thoroughly
0:24:07 > 0:24:08kills campylobacter completely.
0:24:08 > 0:24:12So in the absence of a solution further up the food chain,
0:24:12 > 0:24:17here are some golden rules on how to handle that potentially dangerous
0:24:17 > 0:24:19chicken when it hits your kitchen counter.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22Practising good hygiene in the kitchen is absolutely essential
0:24:22 > 0:24:25when you're preparing any kind of food, but particularly with chicken
0:24:25 > 0:24:29if you really do want to avoid any kind of food poisoning.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32When you're unpacking chicken,
0:24:32 > 0:24:34you don't actually have to wash it, because if you do that
0:24:34 > 0:24:37you're likely to spread any possible germs around.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39So once you have actually prepared it and put it in a pot,
0:24:39 > 0:24:41or in a pan or wherever,
0:24:41 > 0:24:43then what is essential if that you wash your hands
0:24:43 > 0:24:46with hot soapy water, you wash the chopping board.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49And finally treat your chicken with respect.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53Cook it really well. You don't want any pink meat in the middle.
0:24:53 > 0:24:58When you skewer the flesh, the juices should run absolutely clear.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01And make sure you serve it piping hot.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03So for now, proper cooking
0:25:03 > 0:25:07and good food hygiene are the only way to beat campylobacter.
0:25:07 > 0:25:11But let's hope that it isn't too long before someone finds a way
0:25:11 > 0:25:14to stop it being in our meat in the first place.
0:25:17 > 0:25:18When you're out shopping
0:25:18 > 0:25:22and you see the packaging on your favourite brand declares that
0:25:22 > 0:25:24it's bigger and better than ever,
0:25:24 > 0:25:27should you immediately reach for your wallet?
0:25:27 > 0:25:31Well, not necessarily so according to PR expert Jonathan Gabay,
0:25:31 > 0:25:34because it could be nothing more than a very clever marketing ploy
0:25:34 > 0:25:38to ensure that that particular product grabs your attention.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42There's more to the design than may first meet the eye.
0:25:42 > 0:25:48Copywriters, art directors, marketers spend a lot of time,
0:25:48 > 0:25:52money and imagination getting it just right
0:25:52 > 0:25:56so that packaging is going to be just enough to tip you over the edge
0:25:56 > 0:25:58and actually buy the product.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01They go so far with this that they also look at stuff like
0:26:01 > 0:26:05tactile packaging. How does the product feel?
0:26:05 > 0:26:07If it's going to be something for a fresh food
0:26:07 > 0:26:09or maybe even a frozen food,
0:26:09 > 0:26:13you get a tantalising glimpse into the food within the cardboard.
0:26:13 > 0:26:19It's all there to help them ensure that you are not just willing,
0:26:19 > 0:26:24but you are absolutely chomping on the bits to actually
0:26:24 > 0:26:26part with your cash.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29Jonathan says the carefully chosen words on the packaging
0:26:29 > 0:26:31may not mean what you think.
0:26:32 > 0:26:35Let's take the word "bigger."
0:26:35 > 0:26:38Now, if I was to trying to sell you a packet of my cornflakes
0:26:38 > 0:26:42and I put on it "bigger," what would you think?
0:26:42 > 0:26:44Take this particular cornflake.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47Is it bigger? Is it more dense? Is it thicker?
0:26:47 > 0:26:48And so on and so forth.
0:26:48 > 0:26:53Or am I referring to the packaging alone,
0:26:53 > 0:26:57that you're going to get more cornflakes within the packaging?
0:26:57 > 0:26:59When it comes to food, things aren't always as straightforward
0:26:59 > 0:27:02as they seem. But if you've bought a product
0:27:02 > 0:27:05and you feel short-changed by a promise that turns out not to be
0:27:05 > 0:27:08what you think, there are no fixed rules on all this,
0:27:08 > 0:27:10so it isn't easy to argue that you've been misled.
0:27:13 > 0:27:18It boils down to this - you, the consumer have got to substantiate
0:27:18 > 0:27:22why you feel that you would have been misled,
0:27:22 > 0:27:27and myself as the brand, I've got to show how I did substantiate
0:27:27 > 0:27:30what I meant by the word "bigger."
0:27:30 > 0:27:34After all, the devil is always in the small details.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37You can find more savvy shopping tips on our website...
0:27:44 > 0:27:48A year's now gone by since we all woke up to headlines alerting us
0:27:48 > 0:27:51to the fact that horsemeat had made its way into a number of products
0:27:51 > 0:27:53on the shelves of some of the big supermarkets,
0:27:53 > 0:27:55including a Tesco beef burger
0:27:55 > 0:27:58which turned out to be nearly a third horse.
0:27:58 > 0:28:00So, 12 months on, what's changed,
0:28:00 > 0:28:04and has enough REALLY been done to stop the same thing happening again?
0:28:05 > 0:28:09- GEORGE ALAGIAH:- Horsemeat found in burgers sold in British and Irish supermarkets,
0:28:09 > 0:28:13Tesco, Iceland and several others are taking products off the shelves.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18It was the scandal that rocked Europe...
0:28:18 > 0:28:21- NEWSREADER:- 16 countries including Britain have been warned...
0:28:22 > 0:28:25..disgraced some of the biggest names in the food business...
0:28:25 > 0:28:29We want to apologise to our customers,
0:28:29 > 0:28:31we are as sorry as they are.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34..and changed how some of us shopped.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37We look twice now, and we are avoiding places
0:28:37 > 0:28:40which we think will have it.
0:28:40 > 0:28:42The Food Standards Agency has ordered all companies
0:28:42 > 0:28:44to test their beef products...
0:28:44 > 0:28:48..after horsemeat was found in its beef burgers in Britain and Ireland.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51In January 2013, the Food Safety Authority of Ireland
0:28:51 > 0:28:56discovered horsemeat in beef burgers supplied to supermarkets including
0:28:56 > 0:28:59Tesco, Iceland, ALDI, Dunnes Stores and Lidl.
0:29:03 > 0:29:05Within days, ten million beef burgers
0:29:05 > 0:29:08had been taken off supermarket shelves around the UK.
0:29:08 > 0:29:10And over the coming weeks,
0:29:10 > 0:29:14the scandal spread, as horse DNA was found in ready meals too.
0:29:15 > 0:29:19Some Findus lasagnes are found to contain 100% horsemeat.
0:29:19 > 0:29:22- Traces of horsemeat... - They contained horsemeat...
0:29:22 > 0:29:24Scandal over horsemeat being passed off as beef...
0:29:24 > 0:29:27We'll have all the very latest developments
0:29:27 > 0:29:28on this from our correspondents.
0:29:30 > 0:29:32The horsemeat scandal had an immediate impact,
0:29:32 > 0:29:37making many people reassess where and how they bought their meat.
0:29:37 > 0:29:39And more and more of us are turning back
0:29:39 > 0:29:42to our local, small independent butcher.
0:29:42 > 0:29:45Definitely got some rabbits, yeah.
0:29:45 > 0:29:48Danny Lidgate is the fifth generation of Lidgates
0:29:48 > 0:29:50to run his family's butcher shop.
0:29:51 > 0:29:55So, Danny, what difference did the horsemeat scandal
0:29:55 > 0:29:56have on your trade?
0:29:56 > 0:29:58Initially we noticed a big boom in sales,
0:29:58 > 0:30:01but we did find a lot of new customers coming to the shop
0:30:01 > 0:30:05and expressing how horrified and angry they were at supermarkets,
0:30:05 > 0:30:07and they felt like they had been let down.
0:30:07 > 0:30:11When they came to you, they were reacting against the horsemeat thing
0:30:11 > 0:30:14in supermarkets, but have they stayed with you as customers?
0:30:14 > 0:30:17Yes, we think they have, we seem to see a lot of, our pie sales
0:30:17 > 0:30:20are still very strong, all through the summertime we were selling
0:30:20 > 0:30:24a lot of burgers and sausages, so we think they have stayed with us.
0:30:25 > 0:30:29A lot of the horsemeat problems were budget problems, where people
0:30:29 > 0:30:33wouldn't be able to have a budget to buy the best possible products
0:30:33 > 0:30:36they could afford, so we've done some cheaper cuts of meat,
0:30:36 > 0:30:40we've also changed our sausages and done some supplying for schools
0:30:40 > 0:30:46and other outlets who want a really good product but maybe not
0:30:46 > 0:30:49quite as high specification as our standard products.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52Obviously everyone's got different budgets,
0:30:52 > 0:30:53but we want to serve everybody.
0:30:53 > 0:30:57It wasn't just high-end butchers like Danny whose businesses
0:30:57 > 0:31:00were boosted by the horsemeat scandal. In the first month
0:31:00 > 0:31:03after the discovery was made, butchers right across the board
0:31:03 > 0:31:09saw a 20% boost in business and a 30% increase in sales of burgers.
0:31:10 > 0:31:14This change in shopping habits was tracked by consumer group Which.
0:31:15 > 0:31:19The horsemeat saga had a huge impact on consumer confidence.
0:31:19 > 0:31:22We found that confidence in the food industry dropped by a quarter
0:31:22 > 0:31:24immediately after the scare. People expect
0:31:24 > 0:31:26to be able to rely on the labels,
0:31:26 > 0:31:29but two-thirds of people said that they didn't feel that the government
0:31:29 > 0:31:33was doing enough to ensure that the information on food labels is true.
0:31:34 > 0:31:3660% of people Which surveyed in the month
0:31:36 > 0:31:40after the scandal said they had changed the meat they buy.
0:31:40 > 0:31:42We found that people were generally trying
0:31:42 > 0:31:45to buy higher quality products.
0:31:45 > 0:31:49Three in ten said they were no longer eating processed meat.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51Some people were buying more meat from butchers,
0:31:51 > 0:31:54or eating more food that didn't contain meat.
0:31:54 > 0:31:58So overall it highlighted that people had lost confidence
0:31:58 > 0:32:01in the industry's ability to make sure that they could
0:32:01 > 0:32:05trust food labels and be sure they knew exactly what they were getting.
0:32:06 > 0:32:08In the aftermath of the scandal,
0:32:08 > 0:32:11the government summoned retailers and meat distributors to
0:32:11 > 0:32:15explain how horsemeat had got into products that were labelled as beef.
0:32:16 > 0:32:19They also ordered widespread testing of meat products
0:32:19 > 0:32:23from across Europe, and launched two enquiries into what had gone wrong.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27The biggest enquiry won't report until the summer,
0:32:27 > 0:32:31and for the meantime at least, horsemeat is out of the news.
0:32:31 > 0:32:34So now the dust has settled, have we gone back to our old ways?
0:32:36 > 0:32:38To find out, we asked some Manchester shoppers
0:32:38 > 0:32:41if they've changed how and where they buy their meat.
0:32:43 > 0:32:46Bit cautious with my meat, so I changed.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49It didn't really bother me too much, to be honest.
0:32:49 > 0:32:54Most of the time we buy meat from a butchers anyway, that we trust.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57Our team stopped 65 people in the centre of Manchester
0:32:57 > 0:33:01and asked them firstly if they'd changed the types of meat
0:33:01 > 0:33:05they bought immediately after the horsemeat affair, and secondly,
0:33:05 > 0:33:07if they had stuck with that change for good.
0:33:09 > 0:33:13Of the 65 people we asked, only a third - 21 people -
0:33:13 > 0:33:14said that they changed
0:33:14 > 0:33:15how they shopped last year.
0:33:15 > 0:33:18That's quite a contrast to the higher figures
0:33:18 > 0:33:22sometimes bandied about, although ours aren't in any way scientific,
0:33:22 > 0:33:24and are just what you told us on the streets.
0:33:25 > 0:33:2814 people - 1 in 5 of our shoppers -
0:33:28 > 0:33:31said they had started buying less processed food.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33Ten people said they bought more
0:33:33 > 0:33:34fresh meat from butchers.
0:33:35 > 0:33:38And five people said they stopped shopping in supermarkets
0:33:38 > 0:33:40linked to the scandal altogether.
0:33:41 > 0:33:44But a year on from the horsemeat scare, have the shoppers
0:33:44 > 0:33:47we surveyed continued to buy from their butcher?
0:33:49 > 0:33:52Yeah. I do buy my meat from the supermarket as well,
0:33:52 > 0:33:54but obviously I'm cautious where I buy it from.
0:33:54 > 0:33:57I changed whether I was buying processed meat,
0:33:57 > 0:33:59I tend to buy fresh meat now.
0:33:59 > 0:34:02When we asked the 21 people who'd changed their shopping habits
0:34:02 > 0:34:05whether they'd kept it up, ten of them - almost half -
0:34:05 > 0:34:09said that, one year on, they still buy less processed food.
0:34:10 > 0:34:13Which probably isn't good news for the supermarkets
0:34:13 > 0:34:16and meat processors affected by the scandal,
0:34:16 > 0:34:20who've invested millions in auditing their suppliers and testing meat
0:34:20 > 0:34:23so that the food chain can't be affected like this again.
0:34:26 > 0:34:29Testing meat can be an expensive and drawn-out business.
0:34:29 > 0:34:33But this company reckons it's found a way to get results quicker
0:34:33 > 0:34:36AND slash the cost of the tests, so that manufacturers
0:34:36 > 0:34:38and supermarkets can spot the difference
0:34:38 > 0:34:41between horse and beef in seconds.
0:34:42 > 0:34:44So what we're trying to do this morning is make sure that the
0:34:44 > 0:34:48beef we bought today is actually beef.
0:34:48 > 0:34:52After the horsemeat scandal broke, technology firm Oxford Instruments
0:34:52 > 0:34:55joined forces with the Institute of Food Research
0:34:55 > 0:34:58to find a more effective and efficient way to test meat.
0:35:00 > 0:35:03The technique used is the same as used in an MRI scan,
0:35:03 > 0:35:06only compact and on the bench.
0:35:06 > 0:35:08This system will allow us to be able to
0:35:08 > 0:35:11identify different types of meat very quickly.
0:35:11 > 0:35:13In up to two minutes.
0:35:13 > 0:35:15Instead of testing the DNA in meat,
0:35:15 > 0:35:19this instrument analyses the fat inside it.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22Each individual meat has a different fat content and this will
0:35:22 > 0:35:26therefore allow us to identify which meat we are looking at.
0:35:26 > 0:35:29It's effectively a fingerprint, and that will allow us
0:35:29 > 0:35:33to be able to show whether the beef was beef or something else.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36The technique is still in development,
0:35:36 > 0:35:40so it can't yet identify rogue meats in processed foods,
0:35:40 > 0:35:44but the team here believe it's just a matter of time before they can.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48And you'll see on this screen that the system has
0:35:48 > 0:35:50very quickly picked up that that sample was indeed beef.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55Currently, DNA testing costs hundreds of pounds a time,
0:35:55 > 0:35:58but this technique could cost a fraction of that.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02And if it means more meat can easily be tested more quickly,
0:36:02 > 0:36:05it's hoped that will lessen the chances of something that we
0:36:05 > 0:36:07don't expect making it onto our plates.
0:36:09 > 0:36:14We believe the Pulsar will allow the consumers to have
0:36:14 > 0:36:17more confidence in the food that they purchase,
0:36:17 > 0:36:22and also allow the users in the food industry to be able to verify
0:36:22 > 0:36:26the meat content and therefore allow them to increase their confidence.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29That should be music to the ears of the shoppers
0:36:29 > 0:36:30we spoke to in Manchester.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33When we asked which was more important to them -
0:36:33 > 0:36:36the price of their meat or knowing where it came from,
0:36:36 > 0:36:39two-thirds chose provenance over price.
0:36:39 > 0:36:42The product is more important than the price.
0:36:42 > 0:36:44Yeah, I'd prefer to buy from in this country.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47Definitely, I'd pay a premium to know where it's come from.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49Price is definitely more important.
0:36:49 > 0:36:51Well, I think I would pay a premium
0:36:51 > 0:36:53if I knew where it was coming from and that.
0:36:53 > 0:36:57There is an attempt at European level to help consumers
0:36:57 > 0:36:58know just that.
0:36:58 > 0:37:01France and a handful of other EU countries want tough regulations
0:37:01 > 0:37:06which would force manufacturers of ready meals to state on the packet
0:37:06 > 0:37:10EXACTLY what meat was inside, and crucially, where it came from.
0:37:10 > 0:37:14But French ministers have accused the Brits of dragging their feet,
0:37:14 > 0:37:18reportedly saying the UK is "being difficult, as always."
0:37:18 > 0:37:21The UK government insists it does want to give consumers
0:37:21 > 0:37:23more information, but is worried about the burden on
0:37:23 > 0:37:26food businesses of additional labelling laws.
0:37:26 > 0:37:29But maybe there is another lesson from the French we should be taking.
0:37:29 > 0:37:33On the other side of the Channel, horsemeat clearly sold as such
0:37:33 > 0:37:36is a regular buy for many shoppers like these.
0:37:36 > 0:37:40Over here, one of Britain's most prominent horse lovers has suggested
0:37:40 > 0:37:42maybe we too should think again.
0:37:42 > 0:37:47Should we be considering a real market for horsemeat
0:37:47 > 0:37:49and would that reduce the number of welfare cases?
0:37:49 > 0:37:52If there was a real value in the horsemeat sector.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55I chuck that out for what it's worth,
0:37:55 > 0:37:57because I think it needs a debate.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00Farmers here on Dartmoor despair what to do with horses that
0:38:00 > 0:38:04nobody will buy at auction. Selling them for meat would provide,
0:38:04 > 0:38:06they say, a humane solution.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09General public won't buy the meat which is the
0:38:09 > 0:38:12healthiest in the country because the supermarkets
0:38:12 > 0:38:15won't put it on the shelves. There is a market out there.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18Even the RSPCA doesn't object.
0:38:18 > 0:38:21The RSPCA is not against in principle the eating of horses,
0:38:21 > 0:38:26however, it has to be done according to good welfare principles.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29But is there any chance we might give horsemeat a go
0:38:29 > 0:38:32if - unlike those lasagnes last year - we knew exactly what
0:38:32 > 0:38:36we were getting and it might actually help care for horses?
0:38:36 > 0:38:39No, but if I didn't know I'd probably enjoy it,
0:38:39 > 0:38:41but I wouldn't consider eating it, no.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44I would consider eating horsemeat, yeah.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47There's less fat in it, as far as I can remember,
0:38:47 > 0:38:50cos it's a long time since I've had it!
0:38:50 > 0:38:54They're pets. I don't consider them a food source.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56We've been to France many times,
0:38:56 > 0:38:59we spend quite a lot of time there, it's common culture there,
0:38:59 > 0:39:01so, yeah, I think you've got to
0:39:01 > 0:39:03look at how the animals are cared for
0:39:03 > 0:39:04and what the provenance of them is,
0:39:04 > 0:39:08but if you treat it as we treat beef, I don't see a problem.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12We've just been to Australia and eaten kangaroo,
0:39:12 > 0:39:15so why not horsemeat?
0:39:15 > 0:39:19Whilst some still feel eating horse is a step too far, it does seem
0:39:19 > 0:39:21last year's headlines have caused all of us
0:39:21 > 0:39:24to think about our meat more carefully, especially when
0:39:24 > 0:39:27it comes to what it is and where it has come from.
0:39:35 > 0:39:37Here at Rip Off Britain, we're always ready to investigate
0:39:37 > 0:39:42more of your stories, and not just about food.
0:39:42 > 0:39:44Are you confused over your bills,
0:39:44 > 0:39:48or just trying to wade your way through never-ending small print?
0:39:48 > 0:39:51When they sit you down to sign up for things they don't really give
0:39:51 > 0:39:54you the chance or the time to read through all of that small print.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57Maybe you're unsure what to do when you discover that you've
0:39:57 > 0:40:01lost out, and that great deal has ended up costing you money.
0:40:01 > 0:40:07These people have ripped me off well and truly.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10Or you might have a cautionary tale of your own,
0:40:10 > 0:40:13and want to share the mistakes you made with us.
0:40:13 > 0:40:15You can always write to us at...
0:40:22 > 0:40:24Or you can send us an e-mail to...
0:40:28 > 0:40:30The Rip Off team is ready,
0:40:30 > 0:40:33willing and waiting to investigate your stories.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37We eat an serious amount of meat in the UK,
0:40:37 > 0:40:39which is probably why scare stories
0:40:39 > 0:40:41about what's in it or where it's from
0:40:41 > 0:40:43continue to pop up in the news so often,
0:40:43 > 0:40:47and why it's really important that we know as much as we possibly can
0:40:47 > 0:40:49about the quality of what we're eating.
0:40:49 > 0:40:52And not just the quality, but also the safety!
0:40:52 > 0:40:55But for all the controversies about meat
0:40:55 > 0:40:57that fill the papers and airwaves,
0:40:57 > 0:40:59there are also a lot of misconceptions.
0:40:59 > 0:41:03And with all the scrutiny and regulation around today,
0:41:03 > 0:41:06it's probably fair to say that, provided no-one cuts corners,
0:41:06 > 0:41:08the overall standard of what we're eating
0:41:08 > 0:41:10is generally a lot higher than ever.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13I'd go along with that actually. And that positive note
0:41:13 > 0:41:16feels like a good spot to leave the programme for today.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19We hope we've given you food for thought
0:41:19 > 0:41:21when it comes to making choices about what you buy and eat.
0:41:21 > 0:41:25And we'll be back to investigate more of your stories very soon.
0:41:25 > 0:41:29- So until then, may I just say - good shopping.- And enjoy your cooking.
0:41:29 > 0:41:31- From all of us on the team, bye-bye.- Bye-bye.