0:00:02 > 0:00:10This programme contains some strong language
0:00:10 > 0:00:18This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find disturbing
0:01:50 > 0:01:52Cyntoia is a complex child.
0:01:55 > 0:02:00She is the little girl that everyone would love to have.
0:02:00 > 0:02:06This is a kid who had some horrible life experiences,
0:02:06 > 0:02:08many, many bad things happened to her
0:02:08 > 0:02:10and it wasn't just an isolated bad thing,
0:02:10 > 0:02:12but it was a pattern of bad things.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16And this shaped...
0:02:18 > 0:02:21..the way she related to people.
0:02:21 > 0:02:26She would step out of bad situations and then she would find herself another bad situation to get into.
0:02:26 > 0:02:32She allowed herself to get involved with one more bad situation.
0:02:34 > 0:02:35All right.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39We are here this afternoon, I believe,
0:02:39 > 0:02:41in the matter of Cyntoia Brown.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50And it's my understanding that this is set as a transfer hearing, is that correct?
0:02:50 > 0:02:52- Yes, your honour.- All right? - Yes, ma'am.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55- So are we ready to proceed? - Yes, ma'am.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57All right.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59- You are Cyntoia Brown? - Yes, ma'am.
0:02:59 > 0:03:05I have your date of birth listed as January 29th, 1988.
0:03:05 > 0:03:06- Is that correct?- Yes, ma'am.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09- That makes you 15 now?- 16.
0:03:09 > 0:03:13- Do you understand why you're here?- Yes, ma'am.
0:03:13 > 0:03:20This is not a hearing to determine if you're guilty or innocent of the charges against you.
0:03:20 > 0:03:25The only purpose of today's hearing is to determine where your case should be tried.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29Whether it should be heard here in the juvenile court...
0:03:29 > 0:03:34If she stays in juvenile court, she'll undoubtedly go to some sort of juvenile detention facility,
0:03:34 > 0:03:37but only until she's 19.
0:03:37 > 0:03:41If she were to be tried as an adult,
0:03:41 > 0:03:44she might get many, many years in prison.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50- State your name, please. - My name is Cyntoia Brown.
0:03:50 > 0:03:56The night of August 6th, 2004, where did you begin that evening around 7 o'clock?
0:03:56 > 0:03:59I was in the hotel room.
0:03:59 > 0:04:04And what were you doing with Kut at the Inn Town Suites?
0:04:04 > 0:04:08We were either getting high or having sex, that's all we ever did.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11He said that I was slipping and that I was starting to become a slouch,
0:04:11 > 0:04:15that I needed to get out and get on my grind and get some money.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19When I left I was looking for a ride, so I could go out to East Nashville.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21Who were you going to see in East Nashville?
0:04:21 > 0:04:24Well, I wasn't going to go to see particularly anyone,
0:04:24 > 0:04:27I was going to an area that I knew was very...
0:04:27 > 0:04:31I don't know, it's... A lot of people go there and prostitute.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35OK. And how were you going to get there?
0:04:35 > 0:04:37I was going to get a ride from someone.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41And when you walked up to the Sonic, who approached you?
0:04:41 > 0:04:44A man in a white truck.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48- And is this the person that has been referred to throughout this hearing, Mr Allen?- Yes.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52The question came up, was I up for any action?
0:04:52 > 0:04:57And the action, I guess you should know, that it was insinuating sexual.
0:04:57 > 0:05:02He asked me how much and I told him 200 and he said, "No, 100."
0:05:02 > 0:05:05And we decided finally on 150.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09Who made the suggestion of going to his house?
0:05:09 > 0:05:12He did. I had actually suggested the hotel we was right there at,
0:05:12 > 0:05:15but he didn't want to go to the hotel.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18He said he wanted to go to his house, because there was no one there.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22- Did he tell you who he lived with, or anything like that? - He said he lived by himself.
0:05:22 > 0:05:26That time he was just finished telling me about his accomplishments
0:05:26 > 0:05:32and saying how he used to be in the army and, cos I mentioned I was from Fort Campbell,
0:05:32 > 0:05:36and so he related to how he was also in the army before
0:05:36 > 0:05:39and he was a sharpshooter in the army.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43And then he had told me how a lot of women want him for his money
0:05:43 > 0:05:46and that he wanted someone to make love with him with desire.
0:05:46 > 0:05:50OK. Did you see any guns in the house?
0:05:50 > 0:05:55Yes, I'd seen two shotguns downstairs and he showed me a chrome gun with a black handle.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57Where were you when he showed you that?
0:05:57 > 0:06:00I was sitting at a table, eating my food.
0:06:00 > 0:06:02- Do you tend to be a nervous person? - Yeah.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04Was there anything that made you especially nervous that night?
0:06:04 > 0:06:08Just, how he was acting, just how he talked.
0:06:08 > 0:06:13It's like, the way he talked, how he was just so important and stuff
0:06:13 > 0:06:17and then me - I look at myself, "Who am I? Who am I to him?"
0:06:17 > 0:06:19It's like...
0:06:19 > 0:06:21Then he talks about the guns and stuff.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25If he does something to me, I'm sitting here thinking, "What can I do?"
0:06:25 > 0:06:27I'm in his house, ain't nobody gonna know where I'm at.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30My mom and them, they don't know where I'm at.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33The people I stay with, Chico and them, they don't know where I'm at.
0:06:33 > 0:06:34Nobody's gonna know what happens to me.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38Kut, he doesn't care. He doesn't even know who I left with.
0:06:38 > 0:06:42And all this is just running through my mind, and I'm just a nervous wreck.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46Mr Allen was asleep and facing away from you when you shot him.
0:06:46 > 0:06:47No, sir.
0:06:47 > 0:06:51What I want you to do is explain to the courtroom how -
0:06:51 > 0:06:55- you have a gun in your purse on the nightstand, correct? - Correct.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58You don't want to do this, you don't want to be here.
0:06:58 > 0:07:04- So you felt like if you tried to leave, he would harm you?- Right.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06And your belief in that is based on the fact
0:07:06 > 0:07:09that he told you he had some guns and he's a sharpshooter.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12Not only that, but the way he was acting.
0:07:12 > 0:07:16Well, all I know about his activities is what you've told us,
0:07:16 > 0:07:19- and that's really all we'll ever know, Miss Brown.- Right.
0:07:19 > 0:07:21Since you killed him.
0:07:21 > 0:07:26The only thing we know is that he took you to Sonic, he bought you food, he took you home,
0:07:26 > 0:07:30you used his bathroom - you felt comfortable doing that.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32You ate with him - you felt comfortable doing that.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35You sat on the couch and watched TV with him - you felt comfortable doing that.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39You got in the bed and at least one time went to sleep while he was there -
0:07:39 > 0:07:42- you felt comfortable doing that. - I never went to sleep.
0:07:45 > 0:07:47What happened next?
0:07:47 > 0:07:50At first he was just stroking me, but then
0:07:50 > 0:07:53he just grabbed me, like, in between my legs,
0:07:53 > 0:07:55he just grabbed it real hard
0:07:55 > 0:07:59and he just gave me this look, it was, like, a very fierce look.
0:07:59 > 0:08:03And it just sent these chills up my spine.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05I'm thinking, "He's gonna hit me or do something like that."
0:08:05 > 0:08:10But then he rolls over and reaches, like, he's reaching to the side of the bed or something.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13So I'm thinking, "He's not gonna hit me, he's gonna get a gun."
0:08:13 > 0:08:17- And what did you do at that time? - I just grabbed the gun and I shot him.
0:08:20 > 0:08:23How did you become involved with the case of Cyntoia Brown?
0:08:23 > 0:08:30You contacted me and you asked me if I could do a pre-trial forensic psychiatric evaluation.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34Usually we do both a psychiatric part,
0:08:34 > 0:08:35which is a psychiatric interview,
0:08:35 > 0:08:38and we also have psychological testing done.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44Let's start with adopted family.
0:08:44 > 0:08:49Yeah, Mom - Ellenette Brown. And then my dad, Thomas Brown.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53- What's her name, Ellenette? - E-L-L-E-N-E-T-T-E.
0:08:55 > 0:08:59- OK. What kind of work does she do? - She's a teacher.
0:09:02 > 0:09:06- And then father is Thomas? - Mm-hmm.
0:09:06 > 0:09:10- What does he do?- He's a truck driver. Yep, you already know.
0:09:10 > 0:09:15And I know that you have two sisters in this family.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17No, I have a sister and a brother.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21Tell me about your, I guess your biological family, who are they?
0:09:21 > 0:09:24Just, I just know Gina.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28- Gina? Is this your biological mother? - Yeah.
0:09:28 > 0:09:32- Gina as in Gina? - Georgina Mitchell.
0:09:32 > 0:09:38- OK. How old is she, do you think? - Ah, she's probably 32.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40Yeah, do you know how to tell?
0:09:40 > 0:09:43She had me when she was about 16 and I'm 16.
0:09:43 > 0:09:50Right. That's right. Does that seem sort of funny to you that your mom was 16 and now you're 16?
0:09:50 > 0:09:54- I guess. - Does that seem sort of strange?
0:09:54 > 0:09:56I don't know. I guess.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58Tell me about these people, your adoptive mom and dad,
0:09:58 > 0:10:04- what are they like?- My mom, she nags a lot, but she's a good person,
0:10:04 > 0:10:08but she wants me to be "perfect" and like, "her daughter".
0:10:09 > 0:10:13And my dad's an asshole. That's the only word you need to describe him.
0:10:15 > 0:10:17Like it, and saying I like it and stuff like that.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49Well, I'm going to talk to Kathy Evans.
0:11:49 > 0:11:56And then we're going to try to do something that might help you out when you go to court.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59- OK?- Thank you.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02I said, "Let's talk about...
0:12:02 > 0:12:07"there are people...there are times you really like somebody
0:12:07 > 0:12:10"and then something happens, and then you don't like 'em."
0:12:10 > 0:12:14And she says, "Yeah, yeah, that's me, that's what I do".
0:12:14 > 0:12:20That people will be nice to you and then they'll be bad to you, I mean that's the way people are.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24In other words her perception of life is that everybody's like that.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29In other words, she doesn't see that she's the one who's...
0:12:29 > 0:12:32casting people in these roles.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35As far as she can tell, that's the way people are.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39Now, how did this manifest itself
0:12:39 > 0:12:42when this guy Johnny was killed?
0:12:42 > 0:12:47See, I think some of these characteristics affected the behaviour,
0:12:47 > 0:12:51specifically her affective instability.
0:12:51 > 0:12:56In other words, becoming suddenly frightened about the situation she was in.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01And her paranoia, which is part of this condition.
0:13:08 > 0:13:10So I think it's possible to say
0:13:10 > 0:13:15that the criminal act was related to
0:13:15 > 0:13:18her personality disorder.
0:13:26 > 0:13:31Were you able to establish a rapport and were you able to get additional information from Cyntoia?
0:13:31 > 0:13:33Yes, I had a good meeting with her.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36We met for two hours and she talked a great deal
0:13:36 > 0:13:39about her life and about the offence.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42Her biological mother's side of the family
0:13:42 > 0:13:47is extremely heavily loaded with psychiatric disorders.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53Bipolar, personality disorder, suicidal, manic depressive,
0:13:53 > 0:13:55which is unguarded condition.
0:13:57 > 0:14:02At times I've had homicidal thoughts for people that have hurt me.
0:14:04 > 0:14:05For...
0:14:05 > 0:14:11I've been raped, and I've always wanted to do things to them for hurting me.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18Let me ask you this, you've actually attempted suicide in the past?
0:14:18 > 0:14:20Yes, ma'am.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24- What does this tattoo on your arm say?- Suicide.
0:14:24 > 0:14:28Dr Bernet will address, but is there a history of suicide throughout your family? Actual suicides?
0:14:28 > 0:14:33Yeah, my mom shot herself in front of me when I was in second grade.
0:14:33 > 0:14:38Her sister, which is my aunt, just killed herself with a shotgun.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41My grandpa, he shot himself in the head.
0:14:43 > 0:14:48My aunt Shirley, she's tried to kill herself God knows how many times.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51So that's the half having to do with genetics.
0:14:51 > 0:14:58The half having to do with early development is, I guess is interesting in a sense that,
0:14:58 > 0:15:04the basic theory is people have trouble during achieving these first two stages of life.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08And that's ages zero to three, or four.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12And that's exactly the point in Cyntoia's life
0:15:12 > 0:15:14that was...
0:15:14 > 0:15:18just totally messed up.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20First of all, she lived with a number of different people.
0:15:20 > 0:15:24I was trying to keep track of the different caretakers,
0:15:24 > 0:15:27but there were six or seven different people
0:15:27 > 0:15:32who took care of Cyntoia, and this meant comings and goings and separations.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35At one point, she was kidnapped by a family member
0:15:35 > 0:15:39and she felt like she had been abandoned by the other mother.
0:15:39 > 0:15:45This is exactly the kinds of problems that would create a failure
0:15:45 > 0:15:50to achieve the attachment and then the healthy separation.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54We started to see really, really bizarre behaviours as far as...
0:15:56 > 0:15:57..very manipulative...
0:16:02 > 0:16:07..controlling the situation, you know, very possessive.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11How was she possessive, what types of things?
0:16:11 > 0:16:15Well, I can only speak like, she was very possessive
0:16:15 > 0:16:20when it came to her and I, as far as our relationship goes, you know?
0:16:22 > 0:16:25Whenever she thought I was getting too close to someone,
0:16:25 > 0:16:29or someone was getting too close to me - then she would act out.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31I mean, you know, pouting,
0:16:31 > 0:16:35stubborn behaviour, jealousy, that sort of thing.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37I think that's exactly what happened here,
0:16:37 > 0:16:39is that she was born with a vulnerability
0:16:39 > 0:16:43and then during this critical period up to age three,
0:16:43 > 0:16:47she ends up with all these wrong separation experiences
0:16:47 > 0:16:51and she ends up with this personality disorder.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59I'm not actually sure even how this even happened.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02I'm under the impression that it was kind of an informal arrangement
0:17:02 > 0:17:10by which the mother let the Browns raise Cyntoia.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14But we need to find out how that happened.
0:17:16 > 0:17:22Today, we're going to have an opportunity to talk to her adoptive mother,
0:17:22 > 0:17:25with whom she's lived since about age two,
0:17:25 > 0:17:28and also with her biological mother.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33It's a little bit unusual to be able to talk to her biological mother,
0:17:33 > 0:17:38because she really has been out of the picture now for many years in Cyntoia's life.
0:17:40 > 0:17:41Trashcan?
0:17:43 > 0:17:49Ms Mitchell, I'll tell you what I would find helpful to get up to date,
0:17:49 > 0:17:52is how things went yesterday when you saw Cyntoia. How'd that go?
0:17:52 > 0:17:54I was just so glad to see her,
0:17:54 > 0:17:59um, you know, for the first time since she was little.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03And...I mean, she's very beautiful.
0:18:04 > 0:18:10And...she just reminds me so much of me when I was that age.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12- Oh really?- Yeah.
0:18:12 > 0:18:14Like, can you give us an example?
0:18:14 > 0:18:16A twin.
0:18:17 > 0:18:19Um...
0:18:19 > 0:18:23The ups and downs, um...
0:18:25 > 0:18:29Angry one minute, happy the next.
0:18:29 > 0:18:34You know, she wanted to know about our side of the family,
0:18:34 > 0:18:37and, you know, how I was doing.
0:18:38 > 0:18:42And how, you know, the way I used to be,
0:18:42 > 0:18:46how I changed my life around, how I rehabilitated myself.
0:18:51 > 0:18:56When I met Cyntoia's mother, Georgina,
0:18:56 > 0:19:00she was pregnant with Cyntoia.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Of course, at the time, I didn't know that,
0:19:02 > 0:19:05because all of the kids wore the big jerseys,
0:19:05 > 0:19:09you know, with the numbers on them, my older daughter included.
0:19:12 > 0:19:16She came to my house like most teenagers did,
0:19:16 > 0:19:21during the time, my house was the house where all the teenagers hung out.
0:19:21 > 0:19:27My son said to me, "Mom, can we go to see Gina at the hospital?"
0:19:27 > 0:19:31Of course, my first reaction was, "Why? What's wrong with her?"
0:19:31 > 0:19:34And my son said, "Well, Mom, she had a baby."
0:19:35 > 0:19:37I said, "She had a baby?!"
0:19:37 > 0:19:40He said, "Yes, Ma'am". I said, "Well, is it yours?"
0:19:40 > 0:19:43He said, "No, Ma'am, she was pregnant when we met her."
0:19:43 > 0:19:46It really didn't sink in that I was really pregnant,
0:19:46 > 0:19:49you know, until my stomach got big,
0:19:49 > 0:19:52but I'd psyched my mind out, you know, "This is not true."
0:19:52 > 0:19:55It couldn't be real. I didn't understand it.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57Until the baby came.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07When I got pregnant I was drinking,
0:20:07 > 0:20:11and even after my pregnancy I still drank, on a daily basis.
0:20:11 > 0:20:16Having a newborn, and I was a child myself,
0:20:16 > 0:20:19I couldn't handle it, so I would escape to the bottle.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23I drank for about...
0:20:25 > 0:20:29..eight months of her life, and the eighth month,
0:20:29 > 0:20:32that's when I was introduced to crack cocaine.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40So when I got introduced to crack cocaine,
0:20:40 > 0:20:44I also got introduced to the easy money on how to get it,
0:20:44 > 0:20:47which was prostituting.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52So during this time when I was... when I started smoking,
0:20:52 > 0:20:56I liked that I could escape all my problems.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58All my responsibilities.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02Because I didn't even know the responsibility of taking care of a child.
0:21:02 > 0:21:08You know, I couldn't keep putting her, a child,
0:21:08 > 0:21:10into that type of lifestyle that I was in,
0:21:10 > 0:21:13because I never knew where I was.
0:21:13 > 0:21:18She came to my son and asked my son, Chico,
0:21:18 > 0:21:21if he would take the child, because she was in trouble.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25And at the time I didn't know what kind of trouble.
0:21:25 > 0:21:31But we soon found out later, and of course she was in serious trouble.
0:21:31 > 0:21:33She had gone to jail,
0:21:33 > 0:21:38and it was just several incidents after that with the police.
0:21:38 > 0:21:44So we took her, the first time I think, she was six months old,
0:21:44 > 0:21:50and had her until she was eighteen months.
0:21:50 > 0:21:54They had always told me Gina never tried to get in contact with me,
0:21:54 > 0:21:57that she didn't want me, and it used to hurt my feelings.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59I used to wonder why would she not want me?
0:21:59 > 0:22:01Why would she not try to write me and stuff?
0:22:01 > 0:22:05And I found a whole lot of letters, like 20 letters from Gina,
0:22:05 > 0:22:07from when she wrote me when I was a baby.
0:22:07 > 0:22:11And there was all kinds of pretty pictures drawn on the envelopes and stuff.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13And it was written from jail.
0:22:13 > 0:22:17And it just made me mad, cos they should've given that to me
0:22:17 > 0:22:19as soon as I was able to read, you know?
0:22:19 > 0:22:22But they didn't.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26And she was telling me how she loved me and stuff.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34Yeah, we're going to see my mom.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39If I don't say too much around here, it's best.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43Cos if she gets started,
0:22:43 > 0:22:46it's just going to send me into a whirlwind.
0:22:46 > 0:22:49I'm gonna go berserk, I already know it.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51She knows how to push my buttons.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54She knows which ones to touch.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57And it doesn't take very long, because we usually can't stay
0:22:57 > 0:22:59around each other no more than five or 10 minutes.
0:23:06 > 0:23:11Sometimes it's better to adopt a child than it is to keep it.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14What about in this case?
0:23:14 > 0:23:17I can't say, Gina, because you were so young.
0:23:17 > 0:23:18You were so young.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20I'm saying look at then and now.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23Was adoption the right thing for her, you think?
0:23:23 > 0:23:25The way her life ended up?
0:23:25 > 0:23:29- Adoption...- But we can't blame that on adoption.
0:23:29 > 0:23:32- Oh my God. - I don't think.
0:23:32 > 0:23:34Unless he knows more than I do, and there're things that...
0:23:34 > 0:23:38What about unwilling adoption? I didn't want adopt Toia.
0:23:38 > 0:23:41- Oh, unwilling adoption? - Yeah.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43It was done against my will.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45How were you going to feed this child?
0:23:45 > 0:23:47How were you going to take care of this child?
0:23:47 > 0:23:51- That's what they have systems for. - I did see you try.
0:23:51 > 0:23:56Now she did have an apartment, and had just gotten it, I think,
0:23:56 > 0:23:59and was going to beauty school.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01- And working. - And working.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04But sometimes the load gets too heavy,
0:24:04 > 0:24:06and some people aren't strong enough to carry it.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09Yeah, it had to be heavy on a 17-year-old with a baby,
0:24:09 > 0:24:10goin' to school and workin'.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13And that's the point right there. That's the point.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18All I wanted was somebody to help me, show me something.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21Linda had to show me how to make a bottle.
0:24:21 > 0:24:23I didn't even know how to make a bottle.
0:24:23 > 0:24:26That's why children should not have children.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29That's exactly why they should not have children.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32That's why parents intervene.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35But I don't think because you couldn't make a bottle
0:24:35 > 0:24:37is why Toia has turned out such as she has.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39That's a start right there.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42If you can't feed 'em, how the hell can you raise 'em?
0:24:55 > 0:24:57I think Cyntoia was abused as a child.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59She was physically abused,
0:24:59 > 0:25:03and it sounds like she was sexually abused over a period of time.
0:25:07 > 0:25:10Sexual abuse is a really, really big problem.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13In a way, our society has gotten much, much better
0:25:13 > 0:25:16at identifying these children.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19Now unfortunately, we don't always, and I think Cyntoia's case...
0:25:21 > 0:25:25..her sexual abuse went on unrecognised, for, I guess,
0:25:25 > 0:25:27a considerable period of time.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30And it does affect a person later.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49All right, you're ready to stand up.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54Go get the other ones. I can't move in them.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57What do you mean, "In these"?
0:25:57 > 0:25:59They're like this. The other ones are on the side.
0:25:59 > 0:26:03Go get the other ones, where the handcuffs are on the side.
0:26:03 > 0:26:04I can move.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08Did you hear me? Stand up.
0:26:08 > 0:26:11Winston's got 'em on the girl who went to court.
0:26:11 > 0:26:13There's more than one. You're lying.
0:26:13 > 0:26:15- They're all like this. - No, they're not.
0:26:15 > 0:26:16- The other four are like this. - They're not.
0:26:16 > 0:26:21How is that when me, Crystal, and Miss Caroline had one last time we went to court?
0:26:21 > 0:26:22I'll check.
0:26:23 > 0:26:26You need to do that too.
0:26:29 > 0:26:31- 24, 25, 26... - What are these?
0:26:31 > 0:26:33Memories. There's just a whole lot of memories.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35Are they good memories or bad memories,
0:26:35 > 0:26:37or just memories in general?
0:26:37 > 0:26:39Uh, mostly bad.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41Oh, this is my sex list,
0:26:41 > 0:26:43and you know what that means, don't you?
0:26:43 > 0:26:46- Sex list? People you had sex with? - Yeah.
0:26:46 > 0:26:51That person, I was asleep, I woke up and he was fucking me in my ass.
0:26:51 > 0:26:52Him, he tricked me into it.
0:26:52 > 0:26:54He was his best friend.
0:26:54 > 0:26:56And he got me.
0:26:56 > 0:26:58I just watched the pornos, and seen when men came up to girls,
0:26:58 > 0:27:01and started taking off the girl's clothes,
0:27:01 > 0:27:04the girl just lays there and does whatever.
0:27:04 > 0:27:07Screams, and all that stuff.
0:27:07 > 0:27:09And that's what I figured was supposed to happen,
0:27:09 > 0:27:12so anybody, anytime wanted to have sex with me, I just did it.
0:27:12 > 0:27:15I felt like obligated, like that's what I was supposed to do.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17You know what I mean?
0:27:17 > 0:27:21I had sex with 21 people out of 36, where I felt I just had to do it,
0:27:21 > 0:27:23it was what I was supposed to do.
0:27:23 > 0:27:28And 22 people out of the 36 people were hardly or not known.
0:27:28 > 0:27:32And 28 people are connected with a bad experience.
0:27:35 > 0:27:37And Esau raped you at gunpoint?
0:27:37 > 0:27:41Well, he didn't sit there and fuck me with the gun to my head,
0:27:41 > 0:27:43but when I tried to leave, that's when he pulled the gun out.
0:27:43 > 0:27:47And I started to walk off, and he just grabbed me by my arm,
0:27:47 > 0:27:49and he had a gun in his hand.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51He's like "Naw, you're not leaving."
0:27:53 > 0:27:54"Oh."
0:27:54 > 0:27:57And he pushed the gun, and he pulled it up or whatever,
0:27:57 > 0:27:59and he said "Take these off."
0:27:59 > 0:28:01And then he did it, like that, on my shirt.
0:28:01 > 0:28:02So I took my clothes off.
0:28:02 > 0:28:05I just got on the bed and I just lay there.
0:28:05 > 0:28:06I just cried.
0:28:06 > 0:28:11You know, where was I when all of this was happening?
0:28:11 > 0:28:12Where was I?
0:28:12 > 0:28:15I mean, could you not come to me and talk,
0:28:15 > 0:28:17to let me know how you was feeling?
0:28:20 > 0:28:22And it's just - I don't know.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24I'm thinking at that age -
0:28:24 > 0:28:29I won't say most children, or even all children,
0:28:29 > 0:28:32but Cyntoia...
0:28:34 > 0:28:38..I don't think she was very trusting of me.
0:28:38 > 0:28:44Maybe she thought that anything she confided to me about,
0:28:44 > 0:28:46that it wouldn't be just to me.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49Maybe she thought that I would share that with someone else.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51I don't know, because we have a good relationship.
0:28:51 > 0:28:57I don't understand why she felt she couldn't come to me and talk to me.
0:28:57 > 0:28:58No matter what it was.
0:28:58 > 0:29:02If I tried to tell her, she wouldn't listen.
0:29:02 > 0:29:07She'd probably just tell me "OK, sweetie, go play."
0:29:07 > 0:29:09That's what she used to always say.
0:29:09 > 0:29:14No parent wants to think that their, their young daughter, you know,
0:29:14 > 0:29:18is experiencing sex, especially at such a young age.
0:29:18 > 0:29:22And then to find out that there's been many,
0:29:22 > 0:29:26you know, several boys and men.
0:29:29 > 0:29:31But...
0:29:31 > 0:29:34it does not change how I feel.
0:29:34 > 0:29:38That is my daughter. She's always gonna be my daughter,
0:29:38 > 0:29:42no matter what she does, or have done.
0:29:42 > 0:29:46That isn't gonna change how I feel about her.
0:29:46 > 0:29:50I didn't want people to know I was dumb, so I didn't say anything.
0:29:50 > 0:29:55I didn't say anything about this, that Miss Kathy says could help me,
0:29:55 > 0:29:57because I don't want people to know how dumb I was,
0:29:57 > 0:29:59and all the dumb stuff I did.
0:30:03 > 0:30:05Especially this. This is dumb.
0:30:05 > 0:30:08For some girl to have sex with 36 people, OK.
0:30:09 > 0:30:1211 of those people, it was not statutory rape.
0:30:12 > 0:30:16There were three people out of 36 people that were relatives.
0:30:16 > 0:30:21There were four people out of 36 people that I actually liked or lusted for.
0:30:21 > 0:30:26There are nine people out of 36 people, that it was protected sex.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29There was five people out of 36 people that were girls.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32And there was four people out of 36 people
0:30:32 > 0:30:34(that were prostitution.)
0:30:36 > 0:30:39Lots of girls experience some degree of sexual abuse
0:30:39 > 0:30:45and it's estimated like 30, 35% have some...
0:30:45 > 0:30:51sexual abuse in the broad sense of some unwanted sexual activity,
0:30:51 > 0:30:55or exposure to sexual activity as a child.
0:30:55 > 0:30:58Part of what happens is that the more severe the abuse,
0:30:58 > 0:31:03the more likely it is to have psychological affects later in life.
0:31:03 > 0:31:08Depression, suicidality, uh, anxiety problems,
0:31:08 > 0:31:12substance abuse problems, um...
0:31:13 > 0:31:16..in some cases, behaviour problems.
0:31:23 > 0:31:27I was, I was very well put together.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30I got married when I was 19.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33I married David, who was a very poor provider.
0:31:33 > 0:31:37I would find myself cringing when he would come towards me
0:31:37 > 0:31:41with any sexual manner, or any way like that.
0:31:41 > 0:31:43I mean, I would just cry.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45And I knew I had to get away.
0:31:48 > 0:31:50Tommy came to my house.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53I was doing dishes and he came up behind me.
0:31:54 > 0:31:57And I really wasn't expecting that by no means.
0:31:57 > 0:32:00Cos I never been around folks like that.
0:32:00 > 0:32:06And then he started slapping me, and he said,
0:32:06 > 0:32:08"You're gonna get what you deserve."
0:32:08 > 0:32:11And he grabbed me and snatched me
0:32:11 > 0:32:16and started beating me and dragged me to the bedroom.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21I got pregnant from that particular rape.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25How did I cope with it? I went from this, to where I am now.
0:32:25 > 0:32:30But you know you can use the word "rape" in many ways
0:32:30 > 0:32:33because I feel like all of us has been raped of our life
0:32:33 > 0:32:35when this incident happened to me.
0:32:35 > 0:32:39There's Tommy, there's Gina, and then there's Toia.
0:32:40 > 0:32:42The genetics are strong.
0:32:45 > 0:32:46And the genetics should stop.
0:32:50 > 0:32:51DOOR OPENS
0:32:52 > 0:32:54So what happened to your hair?
0:32:54 > 0:32:56You know, I cut my hair.
0:32:56 > 0:32:57Why'd you do that?
0:32:57 > 0:32:59Cos I don't wanna be pretty no more.
0:33:01 > 0:33:02Why not?
0:33:02 > 0:33:05Cos it don't do nothin' but cause you trouble.
0:33:08 > 0:33:10'Think of what got me into this mess.'
0:33:12 > 0:33:14'Yeah? What got you into....'
0:33:14 > 0:33:17'Being attractive. And what do you attract?
0:33:17 > 0:33:18'Crazy people.'
0:33:21 > 0:33:25So, what do you see as similarities between all the different men
0:33:25 > 0:33:27who have been in your life?
0:33:27 > 0:33:28Besides the fact that they're men.
0:33:30 > 0:33:32How are they similar, how are they different?
0:33:34 > 0:33:38Selfish. That's how they're similar, they're all selfish.
0:33:40 > 0:33:42They do whatever to get what they want.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45Makes them happy. They don't think about others' happiness.
0:33:45 > 0:33:47And everything they do, they feel they're justified.
0:33:50 > 0:33:52They don't ever accept fault, that's what my dad said.
0:33:52 > 0:33:56He said, in his letter, he goes home and sleeps at night knowing that he did his best.
0:33:56 > 0:33:57Bullshit!
0:33:59 > 0:34:00What did Johnny want from you?
0:34:00 > 0:34:02Sex, for money.
0:34:07 > 0:34:09No.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15They all wanted acceptance and admiration.
0:34:15 > 0:34:18Hell, yeah. That's what they wanted.
0:34:18 > 0:34:22My dad wanted to be admired because of the hard work he put in,
0:34:22 > 0:34:24driving trucks and making that money,
0:34:24 > 0:34:27and supplying us with the life we lived.
0:34:27 > 0:34:31Mmm, Kut-throat, he wanted to be admired by everyone else in the street,
0:34:31 > 0:34:35because I remember that one time when he said, I was going to work
0:34:35 > 0:34:39and get him this truck, it was a suburban, on some 26s.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42He wanted admiration, he wanted somebody to respect him.
0:34:42 > 0:34:46He wanted people to admire him. That's... Oh my God, fuck.
0:34:46 > 0:34:50Then, you got Johnny. What did he say?
0:34:50 > 0:34:52"I want a woman to make love with me with desire."
0:34:52 > 0:34:55Remember I told you that part? Desire.
0:34:55 > 0:34:56He wants to be accepted.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01Hell, yeah. And those are my fucking problems.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05How are they your fucking problems?
0:35:05 > 0:35:07Cos I always wanna be accepted.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12For 18 fucking years.
0:35:15 > 0:35:17- Can we go?- Yes, of course.
0:35:19 > 0:35:20- How's it going?- Good.
0:35:41 > 0:35:45..number is 04-45...
0:35:45 > 0:35:51..436. Today's date is August the 8th of 2004.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57Tag-along watch is 03.28 hours.
0:35:59 > 0:36:01You know the whole thing about when you make a statement,
0:36:01 > 0:36:04that they read you your rights and stuff like that?
0:36:18 > 0:36:20That's what we're going to talk about now.
0:36:33 > 0:36:36'After I read each sentence to you,'
0:36:36 > 0:36:38I will read three other sentences
0:36:38 > 0:36:42that mean the same thing, or not the same thing,
0:36:42 > 0:36:44as the sentence you'll be seeing at the top of the page.
0:36:46 > 0:36:48So the sentence at the top says,
0:36:48 > 0:36:51"You do not have to make a statement,
0:36:51 > 0:36:54"and have the right to remain silent."
0:36:54 > 0:36:57Well, the first one says, "You should not say anything
0:36:57 > 0:36:59"until the police ask you questions." Does that mean...
0:36:59 > 0:37:01Same.
0:37:03 > 0:37:07"If you won't talk to the police, then that will be used against you in court."
0:37:07 > 0:37:09Same.
0:37:09 > 0:37:13"If you tell the police anything, it can be repeated in court."
0:37:13 > 0:37:14Same.
0:37:32 > 0:37:35These questions I was asking, tell me how they fit into your situation.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37They, uh, I don't know.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40See, right now I see it and I understand 'em,
0:37:40 > 0:37:43but then I didn't understand. I was high and tired, kinda everything.
0:37:43 > 0:37:45So what kind of deal did they give you?
0:37:45 > 0:37:47They didn't give me none.
0:37:47 > 0:37:49But what did they say about the deal?
0:37:49 > 0:37:52They just said they'd give me a deal. They promised they could give me a deal.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55And when he was reading the rights it said, "No promises have been made."
0:37:55 > 0:37:57And I said, "Yes, promises was made."
0:37:57 > 0:37:59And, uh, it's on the tape that I said that.
0:37:59 > 0:38:01What kind of promises did they give you?
0:38:01 > 0:38:03He promised me that he was going to give me a deal.
0:38:03 > 0:38:06But what... What was he talking about? What kind of deal?
0:38:06 > 0:38:08About time.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18What does that mean when he says, "I'll talk to the DA"?
0:38:18 > 0:38:20I don't know.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22"I talk to him, I talk to him..."
0:38:22 > 0:38:25Well, he might talk to him every day, about the weather, the football game.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28Yeah, but he meant that he'd talk to him about giving me a deal.
0:38:28 > 0:38:32But what would the deal be? What kind of deal?
0:38:32 > 0:38:34Like, less time... to serve.
0:38:35 > 0:38:39Cos if I didn't, he said nine times out of ten I was going to do life.
0:38:40 > 0:38:41So, did he say...
0:38:41 > 0:38:45And they screwed me because I might be doin' life anyways!
0:38:45 > 0:38:47Did he say, that, um...
0:38:50 > 0:38:53- Did he actually say that?- Mm-hmm. - That he would give you less time?
0:38:53 > 0:38:55- Mm-hmm.- He actually use that word?
0:38:55 > 0:38:57No, he said, "I can promise that we can get you a lighter,
0:38:57 > 0:38:59"a lighter sentence."
0:39:03 > 0:39:07I think they need to look at, she's a real person,
0:39:07 > 0:39:10and she's, she's a kid.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14She's, umm, a kid who is basically adrift
0:39:14 > 0:39:16and she ends up in a bad situation.
0:39:16 > 0:39:18And that's really different, in my mind,
0:39:18 > 0:39:21than a person who's committing first-degree pre-meditated murder.
0:39:23 > 0:39:27First-degree murder, for an adult, you can get the death penalty.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30Now, she's not eligible for that because she was a minor
0:39:30 > 0:39:31when this happened.
0:39:31 > 0:39:36But, when you think of first-degree murder,
0:39:36 > 0:39:38it's a really serious event.
0:39:40 > 0:39:44First-degree murder is what our society feels the response
0:39:44 > 0:39:47should be the death penalty, should be life in prison.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53And, in my mind, it doesn't fit...
0:39:56 > 0:40:01..an action by a 15-year-old in a bad situation.
0:40:01 > 0:40:05In a bad, impossible, gruesome situation.
0:40:05 > 0:40:11To me, what our society means by first-degree murder is not what happened that night.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41You know what I fear most? Words, you know what words?
0:40:41 > 0:40:43No, what?
0:40:46 > 0:40:48"When it comes to the charge of first-degree murder,
0:40:48 > 0:40:52"we, the jury, find Cyntoia Brown guilty.
0:40:52 > 0:40:55"When it comes to the charge of felony murder, we, the jury,
0:40:55 > 0:40:58"find Cyntoia Brown guilty.
0:40:58 > 0:41:01"When it comes to the charge of special aggravated robbery,
0:41:01 > 0:41:03"we, the jury, find Cyntoia Brown guilty."
0:41:03 > 0:41:07Those are the words I fear most. More than anything else in life.
0:41:16 > 0:41:18And we need to add, probably self defence,
0:41:18 > 0:41:20in the jury instructions.
0:41:20 > 0:41:22That's going to come out.
0:41:26 > 0:41:31This defendant shot Johnny Allen in the head, in his bed,
0:41:31 > 0:41:33in his home,
0:41:33 > 0:41:3627-28 Milestone Drive.
0:41:39 > 0:41:41When you walked in the door,
0:41:41 > 0:41:45the closest items to the door were his silk underwear
0:41:45 > 0:41:48- and these socks on the floor, right? - I believe so.
0:41:49 > 0:41:51- They weren't hidden.- No.
0:41:51 > 0:41:58Likewise, this is 4B, again the hardwood floor and the shirt.
0:41:58 > 0:41:59Yes, sir.
0:42:01 > 0:42:02It was after him getting
0:42:02 > 0:42:06into the bed, this 43-year-old man, naked, touching her,
0:42:06 > 0:42:09she's moving away, that she said she reached for the weapon
0:42:09 > 0:42:12- and fired one time. Correct?- Yes.
0:42:13 > 0:42:17Medical examiner's opinion was he was in this position when he was shot. And that wasn't challenged.
0:42:17 > 0:42:20"I killed a man,"
0:42:20 > 0:42:22which is not sufficiently descriptive.
0:42:22 > 0:42:24"I executed him".
0:42:24 > 0:42:26You spoke with Cyntoia numerous times
0:42:26 > 0:42:30- in the last two years since she's been in jail, right?- Yes, I have.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33- And you've visited her just about every weekend, correct?- Yes.
0:42:33 > 0:42:38And when you visited her, you have spoken with her about her situation.
0:42:38 > 0:42:39Yes.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41And every single time when you visited
0:42:41 > 0:42:43that you talked about her situation,
0:42:43 > 0:42:45Cyntoia told you that she shot Mr Allen
0:42:45 > 0:42:48- because she was fearful of him, didn't she?- Yes.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51So when you had this phone conversation,
0:42:51 > 0:42:54the jury's heard the whole call to put it in context,
0:42:54 > 0:42:57and she said the words, "I killed a man, I executed him, Mommy,"
0:42:57 > 0:43:00did you think that was some sudden change
0:43:00 > 0:43:02of her confessing to you what happened?
0:43:02 > 0:43:06No. Um, Cyntoia has a way of...
0:43:06 > 0:43:08taking things out of context.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11Um, you know, she may say one thing
0:43:11 > 0:43:13but actually mean something different.
0:43:13 > 0:43:15And, uh, she does that a lot.
0:43:15 > 0:43:19But the conversation was that
0:43:19 > 0:43:22not so much as her trying to confess to me,
0:43:22 > 0:43:26she was at a point in her life that she was feeling very...
0:43:28 > 0:43:29..helpless.
0:43:29 > 0:43:31Um...
0:43:31 > 0:43:35she was in essence trying to tell me
0:43:35 > 0:43:36to go on with my life.
0:43:36 > 0:43:39Don't waste my life, you know,
0:43:39 > 0:43:41trying to wait for her.
0:43:41 > 0:43:47She felt that she had embarrassed herself,
0:43:47 > 0:43:50but mainly she had embarrassed me.
0:43:50 > 0:43:53At that point, I could tell because I'm her mother,
0:43:53 > 0:43:55all she wanted was
0:43:55 > 0:43:56saying...
0:44:01 > 0:44:04"I know what my outcome is
0:44:04 > 0:44:06"so you go on, and you do what you have to do.
0:44:06 > 0:44:08"Don't waste it on me."
0:44:09 > 0:44:12And I guess she did find herself trapped in this way.
0:44:12 > 0:44:14She found herself trapped
0:44:14 > 0:44:19between what she knew the detective knew and could easily prove
0:44:19 > 0:44:24and her need, her dire need to make up a story about this.
0:44:24 > 0:44:27She knew she was had. What else can she say?
0:44:30 > 0:44:32What else can she say?
0:44:32 > 0:44:35She's taken care of the one person
0:44:35 > 0:44:36who could really counter
0:44:36 > 0:44:41this preposterous and ridiculous self-defence opt.
0:44:41 > 0:44:44She knows he can't say anything.
0:44:45 > 0:44:48Because this is what she did to him...
0:44:48 > 0:44:49'You and your partner
0:44:49 > 0:44:53'are using all the experience and training that you have,'
0:44:53 > 0:44:57using every technique you've been taught,
0:44:57 > 0:44:59to get a statement from her.
0:44:59 > 0:45:01- Correct?- That's correct.
0:45:01 > 0:45:05And at the very beginning of that entire process,
0:45:05 > 0:45:10your partner and you said, "All we want is the truth".
0:45:10 > 0:45:14- That's correct.- And you said, "If you tell me the truth,
0:45:14 > 0:45:17"then we're going to go to the District Attorney's office."
0:45:17 > 0:45:19- Right?- That's right.
0:45:20 > 0:45:23Because you had to make certain
0:45:23 > 0:45:26that Ms Brown understood that this is serious business.
0:45:26 > 0:45:27Yes.
0:45:27 > 0:45:33You were going to question her about a very serious situation.
0:45:33 > 0:45:35- Right?- Right.
0:45:35 > 0:45:37And you know from your training
0:45:37 > 0:45:39that you've got to start it out
0:45:39 > 0:45:42by saying, "You have the right to remain silent"
0:45:42 > 0:45:46because if she says "I'm not going to talk to you," that's the end of it.
0:45:46 > 0:45:48- Right.- But she chose to talk to you.
0:45:48 > 0:45:51- Correct.- You and your partner.- Yes.
0:45:51 > 0:45:5422 years of police experience
0:45:54 > 0:45:57and a 16-year-old young lady.
0:45:57 > 0:45:59- Right.- OK.
0:45:59 > 0:46:02Didn't you say to Ms Brown,
0:46:02 > 0:46:05"We will do everything we can to help you"?
0:46:05 > 0:46:08- Where is that in the transcript? - Page 5, line 1.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12- I'd like to look at that.- Help her - I explained what I meant by that is,
0:46:12 > 0:46:14"We talk to the District Attorney's office
0:46:14 > 0:46:16"and tell them you're co-operating."
0:46:16 > 0:46:19Johnny Allen was trolling Murfreesboro road.
0:46:19 > 0:46:22That's what he was doing and we all know it.
0:46:22 > 0:46:24And we know what he intended to do.
0:46:24 > 0:46:26If she acts in self-defence
0:46:26 > 0:46:31from an honest, even though mistaken conviction
0:46:31 > 0:46:33as to the extent of the danger,
0:46:33 > 0:46:37she will not be held criminally liable for her action.
0:46:37 > 0:46:42I'm not trying to tell you Cyntoia Brown is an angel. We never have.
0:46:42 > 0:46:44We've told you from the beginning
0:46:44 > 0:46:48that she was a 16-year-old runaway doing the best she could
0:46:48 > 0:46:50and on August the 6th, she thought
0:46:50 > 0:46:53she was going to have a night where she would be safe.
0:46:55 > 0:46:56She was wrong.
0:46:58 > 0:47:01She exercised the only right
0:47:01 > 0:47:05that is available to anyone in that situation.
0:47:05 > 0:47:08As to these charges of murder, not guilty.
0:47:08 > 0:47:11As to this charge of especially aggravated robbery,
0:47:11 > 0:47:13not guilty.
0:47:13 > 0:47:14Not guilty.
0:47:14 > 0:47:15Not guilty!
0:47:15 > 0:47:18That was not her intent when she shot him and you know it.
0:47:18 > 0:47:20And you know it.
0:47:20 > 0:47:22Thank you.
0:47:24 > 0:47:27Has the jury found a verdict?
0:47:27 > 0:47:28Yes, sir. We have.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31Please stand and tell the court what that verdict is.
0:47:31 > 0:47:35We the jury find the defendant, Cyntoia Denise Brown...
0:47:37 > 0:47:39Count one,
0:47:39 > 0:47:41guilty of first-degree murder.
0:47:41 > 0:47:44Count two,
0:47:44 > 0:47:47guilty of felony murder.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50Count three,
0:47:50 > 0:47:53guilty of especially aggravated robbery.
0:47:54 > 0:47:59This is our verdict this 25th day of August, 2006.
0:47:59 > 0:48:02Thank you. You can have a seat.
0:48:02 > 0:48:03Hey, Mommy.
0:48:06 > 0:48:08Yeah. It's over with now.
0:48:12 > 0:48:13Well, I got life.
0:48:15 > 0:48:16Yep.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20Momma, don't stress yourself out.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23I don't want you having a stroke or a heart attack or nothing.
0:48:23 > 0:48:28Cos that's the only thing that would get to me.
0:48:28 > 0:48:29You or Uncle Frank.
0:48:32 > 0:48:35And don't let it affect your job either.
0:48:35 > 0:48:38I love you too. Tell Uncle Frank I love him.
0:48:38 > 0:48:42And tell him we still have things that we can do.
0:48:45 > 0:48:47Yes, ma'am.
0:48:47 > 0:48:49L... Love you too.
0:48:49 > 0:48:51OK.
0:48:51 > 0:48:53Right.
0:48:53 > 0:48:56Bye, Mommy. I love you too.
0:48:59 > 0:49:00I think I might cry
0:49:00 > 0:49:02when I go back up to my room.
0:49:03 > 0:49:06Yeah. When I start listening to the radio,
0:49:06 > 0:49:08then it's going to kick in.
0:49:12 > 0:49:13What can we do?
0:49:13 > 0:49:15What's the right thing to do
0:49:15 > 0:49:19when teenagers get into this kind of trouble?
0:49:19 > 0:49:21I don't think it's right...
0:49:21 > 0:49:25I don't think it makes sense just to throw them away.
0:49:25 > 0:49:27I don't think it makes sense
0:49:27 > 0:49:31to give a life sentence to a teenager who has committed a crime.
0:49:31 > 0:49:34To me...to me it seems wasteful.
0:49:34 > 0:49:38It seems wasteful to take a life, you know, that's just starting
0:49:38 > 0:49:40and to say it's worth nothing,
0:49:40 > 0:49:43that nothing is ever going to come of it.
0:49:43 > 0:49:45To me, that's not the right thing to do.
0:49:45 > 0:49:47It's hard to find young people like that.
0:49:47 > 0:49:50See, I get my commissary tonight.
0:49:50 > 0:49:54We'll see you in the morning, young lady.
0:49:54 > 0:49:56- See you in the morning. - Don't be in no trouble.
0:49:56 > 0:49:58I'm not saying that we should
0:49:58 > 0:50:02just slap people on the wrists when they commit crimes like this.
0:50:02 > 0:50:06I think that we need to have a way to deal with it.
0:50:06 > 0:50:08But, um, I think we should find a way
0:50:08 > 0:50:12that does not involve throwing away the next 51 years.
0:50:19 > 0:50:22It is depressing, but there are juveniles
0:50:22 > 0:50:26from whom society, and this community, has to be protected.
0:50:28 > 0:50:32We all have our own opinions, I think, of where that line is drawn,
0:50:32 > 0:50:35where we stop trying to treat and rehabilitate this child
0:50:35 > 0:50:38and start imprisoning this child.
0:50:38 > 0:50:40Where's that line to be drawn?
0:50:40 > 0:50:42Sometimes it's a tough call.
0:50:51 > 0:50:55You have this little girl that's been in this adult life
0:50:55 > 0:50:57for a year or so
0:50:57 > 0:51:01and now she's there permanently
0:51:01 > 0:51:03because whatever happens to her,
0:51:03 > 0:51:06she can't just say, "Well, you know, Mommy will take care of this"
0:51:06 > 0:51:09because Mommy can't take care of that.
0:51:09 > 0:51:10She has to fend for herself.
0:51:14 > 0:51:18We all have choices, you know, and as an adult,
0:51:18 > 0:51:23you can pretty well think beyond what's happening right now.
0:51:23 > 0:51:25But with a child,
0:51:25 > 0:51:29you know, they're going to always think like a child, regardless.
0:51:29 > 0:51:31Regardless.
0:51:34 > 0:51:36I think the 15 and 16-year-olds of the world
0:51:36 > 0:51:41are in this wonderful stage
0:51:41 > 0:51:43between childhood and adulthood.
0:51:43 > 0:51:45And, uh...
0:51:45 > 0:51:47there are so many different things,
0:51:47 > 0:51:50there are so many different pathways through that stage,
0:51:50 > 0:51:52I think the more that we know
0:51:52 > 0:51:55about how genetic influences, environmental influence
0:51:55 > 0:51:59and brain development all interact to create certain kinds of behaviour,
0:51:59 > 0:52:01I think the more we know about that,
0:52:01 > 0:52:05the more we'll discover interventions and what to do about them.
0:52:08 > 0:52:12There's not a day that goes by that I don't hate myself
0:52:12 > 0:52:14for the way that she's ended up.
0:52:16 > 0:52:20I say it begins with me. It's ultimately my fault.
0:52:20 > 0:52:23From the beginning, it's my fault.
0:52:23 > 0:52:25I didn't do what I was supposed to do.
0:52:35 > 0:52:36I feel sad.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41Because to think
0:52:41 > 0:52:43after all this time...
0:52:44 > 0:52:45Um...
0:52:49 > 0:52:53Cyntoia feels that, you know, she can talk to me,
0:52:53 > 0:52:55she can be open with me,
0:52:55 > 0:52:58and the horrible realisation
0:52:58 > 0:53:01that there's a possibility
0:53:01 > 0:53:04that outside of the glass
0:53:04 > 0:53:09and the barbed wire and the bars,
0:53:09 > 0:53:13that we may never actually be...
0:53:15 > 0:53:18..like a mother and a daughter should be.
0:53:18 > 0:53:22It breaks my heart to think
0:53:22 > 0:53:24that we've come this far...
0:53:26 > 0:53:30..and we may never, never...
0:53:32 > 0:53:37..have the type of contact...
0:53:40 > 0:53:43..that we so deserve to have.
0:53:45 > 0:53:48MUSIC: "Ready for Love" by India.Arie
0:53:48 > 0:53:51# I am ready for love
0:53:51 > 0:53:55# Why are you hiding from me?
0:53:58 > 0:54:03# I'd quickly give my freedom
0:54:07 > 0:54:11# To be held in your captivity... #
0:56:07 > 0:56:12# I am ready for love
0:56:14 > 0:56:19# Here with an offering of
0:56:22 > 0:56:26# My voice, my eyes
0:56:26 > 0:56:30# My soul, my mind
0:56:30 > 0:56:35# Tell me what is enough
0:56:35 > 0:56:41# To prove I am ready for love? #
0:56:49 > 0:56:52Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd