0:00:02 > 0:00:08This programme contains some strong language and some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11'My name's Natalie Atkinson. On the surface, I seem like any other 24-year-old,
0:00:11 > 0:00:14'but there's something a lot of people don't know about me.'
0:00:14 > 0:00:16It's a list of your criminal convictions.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19Battery, damage, theft, assaulting a police officer.
0:00:20 > 0:00:25'Throughout my teenage years, I was a persistent offender, constantly
0:00:25 > 0:00:29'in and out of police cells, and, once I turned 18, prison.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32Looking back now and thinking about the time that I spent in here,
0:00:32 > 0:00:36it's just mad. It's like... It was my life.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39I'm just thankful it's not still going on now.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41'I really regret my past behaviour,
0:00:41 > 0:00:44'and wish I hadn't done the things I did.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48'But repeated short sentences didn't rehabilitate me.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50'Prison made me worse.'
0:00:50 > 0:00:52I think the whole point of prison is about punishment,
0:00:52 > 0:00:54but it's also about rehabilitation.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57I wasn't rehabilitated. Not a chance. I was just punished.
0:00:57 > 0:00:59I was contained. I was held.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01And then let out. End of.
0:01:04 > 0:01:09'I'm not alone. Nearly 60% of adults serving short sentences
0:01:09 > 0:01:11'will reoffend within a year of release.'
0:01:11 > 0:01:13I'll probably end up in prison again,
0:01:13 > 0:01:15and I don't want to go back to prison.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17'I want to find out why so many of us are coming out...'
0:01:17 > 0:01:19Hello! You all right?
0:01:19 > 0:01:21'..only to go straight back in.'
0:01:22 > 0:01:25I don't want to go back to jail. I don't want to commit another crime.
0:01:25 > 0:01:27But I maybe might.
0:01:27 > 0:01:30If I don't have support, I know I'm going to reoffend.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41Oh, it's freezing!
0:01:41 > 0:01:45'I've moved on a lot since my offending days, and, get this,
0:01:45 > 0:01:49'I'm even studying a policing, investigation and criminology degree
0:01:49 > 0:01:51'in Carlisle.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55'And this is the house I share with three of my uni friends.
0:01:55 > 0:01:58'Growing up, I thought I'd never have a settled home.'
0:01:58 > 0:02:01I just like things nice and tidy.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05'As a troubled 12-year-old in Lancaster, I was taken into care
0:02:05 > 0:02:07'and moved constantly between children's homes,
0:02:07 > 0:02:11'foster placements and secure units.'
0:02:11 > 0:02:15Byron Road Children's Home, Slyne Road, Rydell House...
0:02:15 > 0:02:18I'm 24 now, and I'd say from about the age of 13,
0:02:18 > 0:02:22I've lived in about 25 different addresses, easy.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26'Over a quarter of kids in care end up in custody,
0:02:26 > 0:02:27'and I was one of them.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31'I started hanging round Lancaster town centre
0:02:31 > 0:02:35'and getting into trouble with the police.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39'Not long after my 14th birthday, I was sent to a secure unit -
0:02:39 > 0:02:42'a place where children go instead of prison.'
0:02:42 > 0:02:44You can feel lonely, afraid...
0:02:44 > 0:02:46With me, I got used to it
0:02:46 > 0:02:48after so many times. I just got
0:02:48 > 0:02:49used to it and just accepted it.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55'Locking me up didn't stop me offending when I got out.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59'I ended up serving repeated short sentences in prison.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03'I want to find out how being locked up affects other young adults,
0:03:03 > 0:03:07and speak to those in charge to see what they think of the system.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12'But there's something I need to do first.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19'Until now, I've kept my background a secret,
0:03:19 > 0:03:22'especially from classmates on my criminology course.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27'But it's time for me to come clean.'
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Telling people that I've got a criminal record is one of
0:03:29 > 0:03:32the hardest things ever. You don't know how they'll react.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35A lot of the people on our course actually want to be police officers,
0:03:35 > 0:03:37some are special constables already...
0:03:38 > 0:03:41SHE BREATHES DEEPLY
0:03:41 > 0:03:44I actually feel sick to my stomach.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51So if I hand over to Natalie...
0:03:51 > 0:03:54Come down here, Natalie, and then it's easier to...
0:03:55 > 0:03:56'It's now or never.'
0:03:58 > 0:04:00This isn't awkward(!)
0:04:01 > 0:04:05So, a bit of background about me. I went into care at about 12,13.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08I eventually escalated into the youth justice system.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10Within four months, I was a persistent young offender.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13I've got 100-and-something offences.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16A lot are for police assaults.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18It's time for me to admit who I am.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21I'm not ashamed of who I am, who I've grown up to be.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24I want to use my past in order to, like, help people
0:04:24 > 0:04:26that are currently experiencing what I used to experience.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30People that are still in the system, a lot of people think that they're no-hopers,
0:04:30 > 0:04:32that they're not going to achieve in life,
0:04:32 > 0:04:34so I want to stand as an example that, "Yeah, I have been
0:04:34 > 0:04:37"heavily involved in the criminal justice system,
0:04:37 > 0:04:40"but I'm still a human being, I've still got emotions,
0:04:40 > 0:04:42"so I can do something to change."
0:04:45 > 0:04:49'I've hid this from them for two years and I don't know how they'll react.'
0:04:52 > 0:04:56Why do you think that you, like, assaulted police officers a lot?
0:04:56 > 0:04:59Because, when I went into care,
0:04:59 > 0:05:02my family lost the right to, like, tell me what to do.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04They had no authority over me at that point.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06Obviously, police are authority figures.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09The minute I connected with a police officer, I thought,
0:05:09 > 0:05:11"You're not going to control me in any way."
0:05:11 > 0:05:13I have a perspective on that.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15I'm an ex-police officer.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19I don't appreciate people assaulting my ex-colleagues.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22I didn't appreciate being assaulted myself when I was a police officer,
0:05:22 > 0:05:26but everyone's got a responsibility to say, "OK, people can change,
0:05:26 > 0:05:29"people can bring their lives around."
0:05:29 > 0:05:31For me to sit here and say I was a bit shocked
0:05:31 > 0:05:35is a bit of an understatement, but I think for you to do this,
0:05:35 > 0:05:38and for you to... It shows your character.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41I think you've been really strong and I think you've handled it
0:05:41 > 0:05:43- really well.- Ah, thank you. - I think we should all applaud her.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46APPLAUSE
0:05:46 > 0:05:49'Ashley's been my tutor since I started university,
0:05:49 > 0:05:52'and he's supported me through thick and thin.'
0:05:53 > 0:05:56I think you were very brave, doing that.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58I know it wasn't easy for you to do,
0:05:58 > 0:06:03but I think with your experience, you are in such a much better position
0:06:03 > 0:06:07to help people, young offenders, to overcome the problems and recognise
0:06:07 > 0:06:10- there is actually a way out of the offending cycle.- Oh, yeah.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14And I know that I'll end up with a job in the criminal justice system.
0:06:14 > 0:06:19I still think that the Natalie I know,
0:06:19 > 0:06:22the Natalie who's been working hard at university,
0:06:22 > 0:06:24- would make a good police officer.- Mm.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27I know it's not going to happen. It can't happen, and you don't want
0:06:27 > 0:06:30- it to happen...- No.- But I...- Do you want to know something?- Go on.
0:06:31 > 0:06:32Growing up, I would have said,
0:06:32 > 0:06:34if someone had asked me what job I would have been,
0:06:34 > 0:06:36I would have been a police officer.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40- But then, that trust between you... - Oh, yeah.- ..and the police
0:06:40 > 0:06:42- was destroyed.- Mm.
0:06:42 > 0:06:47- And, we have to acknowledge, through YOUR behaviour.- Oh, yeah.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57'A large part of my criminal convictions involve police officers,
0:06:57 > 0:06:59'assaulting police officers.'
0:07:00 > 0:07:04I feel really guilty now that I was the way that I used to be,
0:07:04 > 0:07:06but there was no controlling me, there was no telling me.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10'I've come to see my old police community support officer,
0:07:10 > 0:07:12'John Millar.
0:07:12 > 0:07:13'The last time we saw each other,
0:07:13 > 0:07:17'I was scrapping with him in the street in Lancaster town centre.'
0:07:18 > 0:07:20Oh, fucking hell.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23What do I say?
0:07:23 > 0:07:25"Hi, nice to see you?"
0:07:25 > 0:07:26Fucking hell.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28It's not awkward at all(!)
0:07:33 > 0:07:36- Hello.- Hiya, Natalie. How are you doing?- All right, are you?
0:07:36 > 0:07:39- You're looking really good.- Nice to see you.- Good to see you again.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42- What have you been up to?- Not a lot. - No? Keeping out of trouble?- Yeah.
0:07:42 > 0:07:44Yeah? Well done.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47I don't even recognise you now. Do you know what I mean?
0:07:47 > 0:07:50- Crazy.- Totally different, aren't you?- No more trackies!
0:07:50 > 0:07:52No more track... Yeah, no more trackies!
0:07:52 > 0:07:54Right, what I'll do is I'll take you...
0:07:54 > 0:07:57- Walk around where you would have been...- Yeah.- ..when you were in...
0:07:57 > 0:07:59Way, way back. You know, them kind of days.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02- I used to think I was ten men. - Yeah, tell me about it!
0:08:02 > 0:08:04You used to fight like ten men as well!
0:08:06 > 0:08:09'It's mad to think the last time I saw John I ended up in handcuffs.'
0:08:11 > 0:08:12Do you remember that night?
0:08:12 > 0:08:15- Bottles started flying.- Yeah. - Do you remember that?
0:08:15 > 0:08:16- Yeah.- Do you know what I mean?
0:08:16 > 0:08:19Bottles started flying towards me, and you were off that way.
0:08:19 > 0:08:23- But obviously you weren't fast enough.- I was never fast enough!
0:08:27 > 0:08:29Could you picture yourself with your bottle of cider?
0:08:29 > 0:08:33No. I try not to! No, I can.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37- Cider, trackies...- Aye, trackies. Always trackies, wasn't it?
0:08:37 > 0:08:39INDISTINCT SHOUTING
0:08:39 > 0:08:40Hey, behave!
0:08:40 > 0:08:43'Some things round here never change.'
0:08:43 > 0:08:46Do one, come on. Don't be silly.
0:08:47 > 0:08:51- Bet that brought back some memories. - I know!- That attitude.
0:08:51 > 0:08:56It's weird cos it's like totally different, being on that other side
0:08:56 > 0:08:59where I'm the actual person getting the abuse!
0:09:05 > 0:09:08'My nights out in Lancaster would often end up here,
0:09:08 > 0:09:10'at the police station.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13'Coming back's bringing some bad memories.'
0:09:17 > 0:09:21- Have a look in.- You go in first! - No, you go in first! - THEY LAUGH
0:09:21 > 0:09:24- I'll walk in first.- OK. You shut the door!
0:09:24 > 0:09:27And this is where you probably woke up a few times.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29Yeah.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31- Not good, are they?- No.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34I actually don't know how I spent that much of my time in here.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37It's crazy, thinking about it now.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40You had a vision, do you know what I mean? You just wanted to be
0:09:40 > 0:09:43a rebellious type of person, where...
0:09:43 > 0:09:46- Rebuke authority, basically. - Oh, yeah.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49- Bet you regret that now, though, don't you?- I do regret it,
0:09:49 > 0:09:53but I chose... I can't blame anyone else for the situation I've been in.
0:09:53 > 0:09:55You'd know you were going to get arrested...
0:09:55 > 0:09:58- So you...- I wasn't bothered. - Yeah.- The thing was, it's scary that
0:09:58 > 0:10:00- I used to actually want to go to secure units.- Yeah.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04It's sad, but at 13, we used to want to go back because it's the only
0:10:04 > 0:10:07place where you feel settled, safe, not have to worry...
0:10:07 > 0:10:10- And like you said, I'd thrive in that environment...- Mm.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14- ..come out perfectly happy, or this...- Yeah, for a couple of days,
0:10:14 > 0:10:17- and then...- And then straight... - ..straight back on it.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21But then, there was... I don't know, there was just something about you
0:10:21 > 0:10:26that told me that you were better and you would, one day,
0:10:26 > 0:10:28- realise exactly where you were going.- Oh, yeah.
0:10:28 > 0:10:29Because...
0:10:29 > 0:10:32As I keep saying, you had the brains, you had the willpower,
0:10:32 > 0:10:36you had the common sense, you had the intelligence,
0:10:36 > 0:10:38- but for some reason... - I just didn't use it!
0:10:38 > 0:10:40At that time you didn't use it, but look at you now.
0:10:40 > 0:10:44- I know.- I'm really chuffed for you. I'm really, really proud.- Thanks.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50'I can see now John did actually care what happened to me.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53'I used to think the police were just out to lock me up.'
0:10:53 > 0:10:57It has made me realise that they was more concerned about my young age,
0:10:57 > 0:11:01my vulnerability, the welfare side of things, and they was trying to,
0:11:01 > 0:11:04like, steer me away from the criminal justice system.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10'Despite John's efforts, I was constantly in and out
0:11:10 > 0:11:14'of secure units, but at least I felt safe there.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17'That all changed on my 18th birthday.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20'While my friends made the most of their new-found freedoms,
0:11:20 > 0:11:23'I graduated to the adult criminal justice system,
0:11:23 > 0:11:27'and a week after I turned 18, I was locked up in HMP Styal.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33'I want to visit my old prison, but they won't let me in.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37'It's crazy that the one time I want to come back, I'm not allowed.'
0:11:39 > 0:11:44I can see some of the houses that prisoners are held on.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48There's obviously the main gates, where you go in, in the prison van,
0:11:48 > 0:11:52and then you go through, but you can't see the wing, cos the wing's at the other side.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59'My history of assaults meant I was high-risk, and put on the wing with
0:11:59 > 0:12:03'the most serious adult offenders. It was a whole different world.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07'There was violence, fighting, aggression.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11'I learnt more about drugs than I'd ever known,
0:12:11 > 0:12:13'and got addicted to Subutex - a heroin substitute.
0:12:16 > 0:12:18'Many inmates had mental-health problems,
0:12:18 > 0:12:21'and one woman took her own life because she couldn't cope.
0:12:23 > 0:12:26'I got depressed, started self-harming and became
0:12:26 > 0:12:29'so aggressive they put me on strong medication.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34'At the end of my sentence, I was released at the gate,
0:12:34 > 0:12:37'with no help to find a house or a job.'
0:12:37 > 0:12:39I think the whole point of prison is about punishment,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41but it's also about rehabilitation.
0:12:41 > 0:12:43I wasn't rehabilitated in Styal. Not a chance.
0:12:43 > 0:12:48I was just punished. I was contained, I was held...
0:12:48 > 0:12:50and then let out. End of.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59I eventually changed my life through help on the outside.
0:13:02 > 0:13:07Wendy was my youth offending team worker only until I turned 18,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10but she carried on supporting me after that,
0:13:10 > 0:13:12until I stopped offending.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14Wendy's been more than a youth offending team worker.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17She's always gone above and beyond.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20She's a massive part of my life. I class Wendy like my family.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23- All right?- You're freezing.- I know.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29- Do you want a cup of tea? - Yes, please. Coffee.- Thank you.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32- You don't have milk in that, do you? - No.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35'When I was at my lowest ebb in HMP Styal,
0:13:35 > 0:13:36'It was Wendy who I wrote to.'
0:13:36 > 0:13:38Thank you.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40Now, that's December '07.
0:13:41 > 0:13:43Can you read your writing?
0:13:43 > 0:13:44Yeah.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48"Hiya, Wendy. It's Nat here. How are you?"
0:13:48 > 0:13:50I always used to say that - "How are you?"!
0:13:50 > 0:13:54"Good, I hope. Well, I'm fine now. My head was gone the other day.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58"It still is, but I'm more settled now.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01"I can't believe I'm locked up again."
0:14:01 > 0:14:03- SHAKY VOICE:- I can't even read it.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08This was a long time ago, isn't it? Seven years.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14When you went to prison, I think that made it worse for you.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16You had a big audience to play up to.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19You never had that in secure units,
0:14:19 > 0:14:22so then that just fuelled you completely,
0:14:22 > 0:14:25and made you want to act out.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28I do feel guilty for my behaviour while I was there.
0:14:28 > 0:14:30I do. And the way I was acting.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33And in the end, I think being in and out of prison,
0:14:33 > 0:14:37and just growing up in general, is what worked for you.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40I think if I had got out of prison and hadn't had the same workers,
0:14:40 > 0:14:41I'd have ended up back in prison, and I think
0:14:41 > 0:14:43it would have just been that never-ending cycle,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46if I hadn't had that consistent support.
0:14:46 > 0:14:50Because we'd always been there for you, and watched you fail,
0:14:50 > 0:14:53and come back up again, then drop down, and come back up again.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55That's why we're so proud of you now! Do you know what I mean?
0:14:55 > 0:14:57Because you've done so well.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00Just like a little girl, she's like a daughter now, she is.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04I've set you off again now, don't you start.
0:15:05 > 0:15:08You know that, and I've always told you that, so...
0:15:10 > 0:15:14Innit? CHUCKLING: You're supposed to be happy now!
0:15:15 > 0:15:19- I think they're happy tears. - You don't look very happy!
0:15:19 > 0:15:22Depressed! No, I am happy, I could have been so...
0:15:22 > 0:15:25- I could have been in a different place now.- Mmm.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33When I first came out the prison gate at 18, all I had
0:15:33 > 0:15:36was £46.50 - the standard discharge grant -
0:15:36 > 0:15:39and the clothes I came in with.
0:15:39 > 0:15:42I had nowhere permanent to live,
0:15:42 > 0:15:45and felt like everyone could tell I'd just come out of prison.
0:15:48 > 0:15:49Without friends like Wendy taking me in,
0:15:49 > 0:15:51I don't know what I would have done.
0:15:54 > 0:15:56You're often released homeless
0:15:56 > 0:15:59and I would have been if it wasn't for them.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02I'd have had nobody. I'd have ended up in a hostel if I was lucky,
0:16:02 > 0:16:04if I'd have got a space.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07And I'd have been back to prison in a couple of weeks.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11Nearly 40% of offenders leave prison needing help
0:16:11 > 0:16:13finding somewhere to live,
0:16:13 > 0:16:15yet a large proportion don't even have anyone
0:16:15 > 0:16:16to meet them at the gate.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25My experience has made me want to help others
0:16:25 > 0:16:26in the same situation.
0:16:28 > 0:16:30Alongside my studies, I work in a hostel
0:16:30 > 0:16:33which houses young adult offenders with nowhere else to go.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39- Hello, Natalie.- You all right? - Yes, fine.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42'Martin's 24 and has been inside prison seven times.'
0:16:42 > 0:16:46I want to know if I can bid on free houses while I'm here.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49Yeah, of course you can.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51'This time, he really wants to turn his life around,
0:16:51 > 0:16:54'starting with a permanent place to live.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58'But his criminal record means he's been put to the back of the queue.'
0:16:58 > 0:17:00They asked me on my form I filled in, did I have
0:17:00 > 0:17:03any criminal convictions, and I thought, "I'll be honest."
0:17:03 > 0:17:04You've got to be honest.
0:17:04 > 0:17:08"I'll put it down on the form, it's not going to go bad for me,"
0:17:08 > 0:17:12but because of my recent criminal history, they put me in band E.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16It's sad, that, especially for young people, whether it's education,
0:17:16 > 0:17:21employment, housing, you never get rid of it really, do you?
0:17:21 > 0:17:24- What support did you have when you was released?- None.
0:17:24 > 0:17:25So you was just released?
0:17:25 > 0:17:28Basically, turn you out at the gate and say, "There's £46.50,
0:17:28 > 0:17:31"discharge grant from the Government till you get
0:17:31 > 0:17:33"your benefit sorted out, goodbye and ta-ra."
0:17:33 > 0:17:35And then you present yourself as homeless.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38Yeah. To me, a jail shouldn't be able to release you
0:17:38 > 0:17:40onto a street, they should have to find you accommodation
0:17:40 > 0:17:42before you are released.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45Do you think that's a big problem as to why people reoffend then?
0:17:45 > 0:17:48- Yeah, definitely.- No housing, you've got no prospects.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51It's just easier sometimes, instead of all this carry-on all the time,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54to commit another offence, go back to jail.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57I pay 50p a week for a television licence...and that's it.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00I don't want to go back to jail,
0:18:00 > 0:18:04I don't want to commit another crime, but...I maybe might.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08'I know how Martin feels.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11'Many young adults see going back to prison
0:18:11 > 0:18:14'as easier than struggling to make ends meet on the outside.'
0:18:17 > 0:18:19For me, getting a job with my criminal record
0:18:19 > 0:18:20was really tough.
0:18:22 > 0:18:24I used to hate telling interviewers, and seeing
0:18:24 > 0:18:26the look of horror on their face.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31But the sad truth is that without a job and the money
0:18:31 > 0:18:33that goes with it, you're much more likely to reoffend.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38I've come to Preston to see Elliot.
0:18:41 > 0:18:42Thank you.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45'Elliot served 13 months in prison for a burglary committed
0:18:45 > 0:18:50'to feed his drug habit. Six months on, he's now clean and needs work,
0:18:50 > 0:18:53'but in the current job climate, with a criminal record AND
0:18:53 > 0:18:56'a history of drug addiction, he's finding it impossible.'
0:18:57 > 0:19:01It's just pretty soul-destroying when you don't get any replies,
0:19:01 > 0:19:05responses, even acknowledgements from a lot of employers.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08It just makes you feel...just crap.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15'I'm accompanying Elliot on his daily visit to the Job Centre.'
0:19:15 > 0:19:18We've got leaflet distributor,
0:19:18 > 0:19:22direct sales adviser, industrial cleaner
0:19:22 > 0:19:24and a distributor...
0:19:25 > 0:19:28So how many jobs do you think you've actually applied for?
0:19:28 > 0:19:32At least 15 a week, because that's what I have to do to make
0:19:32 > 0:19:36the Job Centre happy. And in that time, I've not had one response.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39- That's disheartening, isn't it? - Yeah, definitely.
0:19:39 > 0:19:41I'm not confident any more, I...
0:19:43 > 0:19:47I've got bad teeth from using drugs, I'm conscious about smiling
0:19:47 > 0:19:51when I see employers, so that will probably give me a bad vibe.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54I can understand, totally relate to you, that you do feel
0:19:54 > 0:19:57under-confident. I did, I don't like my teeth. I feel so self-conscious,
0:19:57 > 0:20:00but you've just got to feel a bit more confident,
0:20:00 > 0:20:02and I think you need to give yourself a bit more credit
0:20:02 > 0:20:04and think, "I am trying."
0:20:07 > 0:20:08'To increase his chances,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11'I've suggested Elliot tries volunteering.'
0:20:11 > 0:20:15- Get back into a normal working life. - Yeah.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17When you've got nowt to get up for,
0:20:17 > 0:20:20you've got nowt to get up for, have you?
0:20:20 > 0:20:22'First step is the YMCA, where I got
0:20:22 > 0:20:24'my first chance of work after prison.'
0:20:26 > 0:20:29I am with probation, I have got a criminal record.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33Does it affect any aspect of volunteering with YMCA?
0:20:34 > 0:20:39- It would massively depend on what your crime was.- Burglary.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41- Was it aggravated?- No, no, no.
0:20:41 > 0:20:46Just burglary. We would not have a problem with that, OK?
0:20:46 > 0:20:47Right, great.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52I'll follow these up today,
0:20:52 > 0:20:54and if it's positive, like I said, we'll start Monday!
0:20:54 > 0:20:57- Nice one, Mandy, thank you. - Nice to meet you.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59OK, you're welcome, no problem.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04- So you're happy then? - Yeah, that was really good.
0:21:04 > 0:21:06Something to focus on.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08That would be great if I could start on Monday, that would be
0:21:08 > 0:21:12absolutely perfect, like. Thank you for suggesting it!
0:21:12 > 0:21:15He seems, like, really excited that he's been given that chance
0:21:15 > 0:21:16and that glimmer of hope.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19I just really hope his references come back OK
0:21:19 > 0:21:21and that he is able to start.
0:21:22 > 0:21:26'I really felt for Elliot. I know that spending a long time
0:21:26 > 0:21:28'locked up can destroy your confidence.'
0:21:31 > 0:21:34In HMP Styal, I felt like I was just a number, not a person.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39It got so bad I developed depression and started to self-harm.
0:21:41 > 0:21:43Almost half of women and nearly a quarter of men in prison
0:21:43 > 0:21:45suffer from anxiety and depression.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50And these problems can carry on after release.
0:21:53 > 0:21:57'24-year-old Sephton's been in and out of prison for years,
0:21:57 > 0:22:00'and really struggles with anxiety on the outside.'
0:22:00 > 0:22:02This is where I'm from.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05Not just here, obviously when you run away from home,
0:22:05 > 0:22:09you are from wherever you can stay, wherever you can live,
0:22:09 > 0:22:15but, yeah, I grew up around here, my barber shop's just there.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21'Sephton's problems started as a child.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23'He ran away from home at 12,
0:22:23 > 0:22:27'became involved in gangs and got in trouble with the police.'
0:22:27 > 0:22:31I've known Sephton for probably 20 years now, I've seen him grow,
0:22:31 > 0:22:34seen him turn into a man. All he knew was getting up to no good,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37selling drugs, doing this, doing that,
0:22:37 > 0:22:38and before you know it - he went to jail.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43That's one thing you can get in the hood though, a good haircut.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45Are you going to do mine now?
0:22:46 > 0:22:48SIREN WAILS
0:22:48 > 0:22:49'Sephton really regrets his crimes
0:22:49 > 0:22:51'and wants to change his life.'
0:22:51 > 0:22:52Thanks.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55'But his experience on the streets and in prison
0:22:55 > 0:22:57'has left him feeling mentally scarred.'
0:22:57 > 0:23:00So, how do you think prison's failed you?
0:23:00 > 0:23:04It's meant to be a punishment, but also to rehabilitate you.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08Rehabilitating is not the thing, even fighting and bullying - wow!
0:23:08 > 0:23:11You see it every day.
0:23:11 > 0:23:17I've had fights, I've been beat up by, say, two, three people.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19Sometimes you wake up and there's a guy
0:23:19 > 0:23:23getting kicked in his head next to your door.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27It's like being in the army.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30Somebody in the army, when they're out in the trenches,
0:23:30 > 0:23:33when they're out in war, they're constantly looking around,
0:23:33 > 0:23:36bombs are going off and shots are being fired
0:23:36 > 0:23:39and it's really hectic for them.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42So then when they come back to society,
0:23:42 > 0:23:48mentally, he has been programmed in such a way that he can't help
0:23:48 > 0:23:52but react, and that is the same with people on the street and in prison.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55So how has prison affected your day-to-day life now?
0:23:55 > 0:23:58In jail, everything is basically done for you.
0:23:58 > 0:24:03So I can't even use a washing machine.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06I can't cook me a meal,
0:24:06 > 0:24:09even making a cup of tea, like,
0:24:09 > 0:24:13I can do it, but through the frustration,
0:24:13 > 0:24:15through the mental breakdown of being trapped in a cell
0:24:15 > 0:24:21for so long, some things become...
0:24:21 > 0:24:22like an impossible task.
0:24:24 > 0:24:27It's a year since Sephton left prison.
0:24:29 > 0:24:31GOSPEL MUSIC AND SINGING
0:24:32 > 0:24:35Attending his local church four times a week
0:24:35 > 0:24:37is helping him deal with his anxiety
0:24:37 > 0:24:38and keep him out of trouble.
0:24:58 > 0:25:03So happy, it's a happy environment, like really nice.
0:25:03 > 0:25:09That's what's basically got me. It's the positiveness, it's everything.
0:25:10 > 0:25:12Yeah, it's really powerful.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16I can see how it's helped you and the support that it's given,
0:25:16 > 0:25:17- 100%, definitely.- Yeah.
0:25:20 > 0:25:24'But Sephton's church can only do so much, and when he's not there,
0:25:24 > 0:25:27'he's still struggling with everyday life on the outside.'
0:25:28 > 0:25:31It was really good, she got to see what's helping me change.
0:25:31 > 0:25:36But...if I don't have support, I KNOW I'm going to reoffend.
0:25:36 > 0:25:37It's going to happen.
0:25:37 > 0:25:40There's no way that I can stay out here,
0:25:40 > 0:25:44in the state that I'm in, and not reoffend without support.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48Sephton's at an important turning point in his life,
0:25:48 > 0:25:51and I really want to help him make a go of things.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58I know how hard it is to move on after prison.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02It's been over three years since I was last released,
0:26:02 > 0:26:05but I'm faced with my past every time I look in the mirror.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09I just hate the front tooth, it's, like, black.
0:26:09 > 0:26:13It just reminds me of being an ex-offender.
0:26:13 > 0:26:17I've had it punched out, I've been hit in the face with stuff,
0:26:17 > 0:26:19I was actually running from the police
0:26:19 > 0:26:22and I had a WKD bottle in my hand,
0:26:22 > 0:26:24and obviously it was wet and I slipped,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27and it's obviously knocked it out.
0:26:29 > 0:26:33I'm going for a consultation to see if I can get my teeth fixed.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38- Hello, Natalie.- Hello! - Welcome, you all right?
0:26:38 > 0:26:40What can I do for you?
0:26:40 > 0:26:44- I'd like a nice, brighter, whiter smile.- Yeah, I understand.
0:26:44 > 0:26:48When I got into offending ways, I stopped looking after my teeth
0:26:48 > 0:26:49and never went to a dentist.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52So it was big step even going to one a couple of years ago.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55I am happy, but I always look miserable
0:26:55 > 0:26:59because I've got my mouth shut!
0:26:59 > 0:27:01Give me a smile! Go on, that's good.
0:27:01 > 0:27:06That's brilliant, thank you very much.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09That's a lovely smile there, that's great.
0:27:09 > 0:27:12First, we'd try and lighten that tooth,
0:27:12 > 0:27:15- and then we'd put a veneer over the tooth.- Yeah.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19- I'm thinking it's the start now. - Yeah, absolutely.
0:27:21 > 0:27:23It went really good, I feel really relaxed now
0:27:23 > 0:27:26and I actually CANNOT WAIT to start getting something done to my teeth!
0:27:32 > 0:27:35It's not just your appearance that can be affected by prison.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42While I was at Styal, I became addicted to Subutex,
0:27:42 > 0:27:45a heroin substitute. And I'm thankful
0:27:45 > 0:27:46that I haven't got an addiction now.
0:27:48 > 0:27:52According to one survey, around a third of those in prison use drugs.
0:27:55 > 0:27:57Over the years, Elliot's struggled with the drug addiction
0:27:57 > 0:27:59which landed him in prison in the first place.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03'So I'm visiting his parents to find out
0:28:03 > 0:28:05'if they think being locked up helped.'
0:28:06 > 0:28:08- Hello! - Hello, Natalie, nice to meet you.
0:28:08 > 0:28:10- Nice to meet you. - Pleased to meet you.- You too.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13Oh, look at him there!
0:28:15 > 0:28:20He was about 11 here, I think. 10 or 11.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23Happy. It's like you've got no worries in life there.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25Definitely!
0:28:27 > 0:28:30He was very bubbly, very happy. Wasn't he?
0:28:30 > 0:28:32He was happy, yeah.
0:28:32 > 0:28:34He used to drive the teachers mad.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37You used to get away with it, you used to drive them mad,
0:28:37 > 0:28:40but you had a smile at the end of it, like.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43I got away with everything, I thought I'd never go to prison.
0:28:45 > 0:28:47So what do you think about Elliot going to prison,
0:28:47 > 0:28:49do you think it was the right punishment?
0:28:49 > 0:28:51Do you think prison works?
0:28:51 > 0:28:54Did they really help you at all? I don't know.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56I think it did help me, just going to prison,
0:28:56 > 0:28:59I think the experience of prison helped me.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02Well, perhaps its something we've never really discussed.
0:29:02 > 0:29:04It's something that I know I don't want to go back to.
0:29:04 > 0:29:06There's more incentive on me staying clean
0:29:06 > 0:29:09and not relapsing, because if I relapsed again,
0:29:09 > 0:29:12and got back onto the drugs again and went down that route again,
0:29:12 > 0:29:14then I'd probably end up in prison again,
0:29:14 > 0:29:16and I don't want to go back to prison.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19'Elliot's positive about his prison experience,
0:29:19 > 0:29:21'but there's something he hasn't told me.'
0:29:22 > 0:29:25You came straight out of prison and used, love.
0:29:25 > 0:29:28- Did you use on your release from...? - The day.
0:29:28 > 0:29:29- The day.- The day I got out.
0:29:29 > 0:29:32So obviously prison didn't stop you using drugs then?
0:29:32 > 0:29:33It was the day I got out,
0:29:33 > 0:29:36the guys I was released with, he bumped into someone,
0:29:36 > 0:29:39he bumped into one of his mates, and he had gear and crack on him,
0:29:39 > 0:29:42and yeah...it was the first time I came across it,
0:29:42 > 0:29:43and I was like, "Yeah, I want it."
0:29:43 > 0:29:46You've come out of prison and you're not that
0:29:46 > 0:29:48further forward, Elliot, than what you were
0:29:48 > 0:29:51before you went in, in respect to getting your life together.
0:29:51 > 0:29:54No, I wasn't any further forward, in exactly the same place.
0:29:54 > 0:29:57You're exactly the same, you're not getting your life together.
0:29:57 > 0:29:59You know, we said by the time you're 30, you're going to
0:29:59 > 0:30:03turn your life around, get on that bandwagon, I'm going to do this.
0:30:03 > 0:30:07You're 31. I just don't think you are... You're no further forward.
0:30:09 > 0:30:12How do you think prison failed Elliot?
0:30:13 > 0:30:19I think ultimately it was the lack... the lack of rehabilitation.
0:30:19 > 0:30:23It was punishment, but not rehabilitation.
0:30:24 > 0:30:26I just hope you don't go back.
0:30:26 > 0:30:32But I would like to say I KNOW you won't go back, but I can't.
0:30:32 > 0:30:35I've had enough of talking about me.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38I've had enough of talking about me now. I've had enough.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45In another... I don't know. By the time he's 35,
0:30:45 > 0:30:47he'll have sorted himself out
0:30:47 > 0:30:51and got himself a lovely little life and, you know, he's happy.
0:30:51 > 0:30:55That's all you ever want your kids to be, is happy, isn't it?
0:31:02 > 0:31:05'It's clear Elliot's addiction and time in prison
0:31:05 > 0:31:07'has been a massive strain on his parents.'
0:31:08 > 0:31:12To be honest, I'm a bit more nervous now about Elliot's future.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15He's said, in a way, that prison worked for him
0:31:15 > 0:31:18because it brought him off the drugs, but obviously it didn't
0:31:18 > 0:31:21because he's gone and scored within 24 hours of being released.
0:31:25 > 0:31:28'Sephton's also finding life on the outside tough.
0:31:28 > 0:31:30'His mental state meant
0:31:30 > 0:31:33'he didn't make the most of opportunities inside prison
0:31:33 > 0:31:36'and it's left him unable to cope on the outside.
0:31:36 > 0:31:38'I've come to see if I can help.'
0:31:39 > 0:31:40He feels bad enough as it is
0:31:40 > 0:31:44and embarrassed about the situation he's in -
0:31:44 > 0:31:4724 years old, struggles with the basics,
0:31:47 > 0:31:50making food, making a drink, doing his washing...
0:31:50 > 0:31:51Hiya!
0:31:51 > 0:31:54'I think Sephton could be dreading today.'
0:31:54 > 0:31:57When was the last time you cooked something for yourself?
0:31:57 > 0:31:58Em...
0:31:58 > 0:32:01I've never really cooked anything for myself.
0:32:01 > 0:32:02Shall we go and have a look?
0:32:02 > 0:32:03Yeah.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08Right, what are we going to make?
0:32:08 > 0:32:09I don't know.
0:32:13 > 0:32:15So, what's that?
0:32:15 > 0:32:20That's like a stir-fry, if you do chicken and noodles and some veg.
0:32:20 > 0:32:22Would that be all right, do you think?
0:32:22 > 0:32:24Do you like sweet and sour?
0:32:24 > 0:32:27- Yeah, sweet and sour. - Sweet and sour.
0:32:27 > 0:32:31'I've been locked away in a cell for so long, and then'
0:32:31 > 0:32:34my people skills is not very well, then paranoia,
0:32:34 > 0:32:40so to do something like this, there will be some sort of panic inside me,
0:32:40 > 0:32:42yeah, because I can feel it now.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46- But hopefully now... - I can change that.- Yeah.
0:32:46 > 0:32:48It's never too late, is it?
0:32:48 > 0:32:51You could be on MasterChef in a couple of years, Sephton,
0:32:51 > 0:32:53you never know!
0:32:55 > 0:32:58Sephton seemed really nervous while we was in the shop.
0:33:00 > 0:33:01'It's such a big thing for him.
0:33:01 > 0:33:04'You can tell on his face he's actually thinking,'
0:33:04 > 0:33:06' "How are we actually going to do this?" '
0:33:09 > 0:33:11How are you feeling, then?
0:33:11 > 0:33:14- Anxiety.- Yeah?
0:33:14 > 0:33:16Do you want me to chop the veg?
0:33:17 > 0:33:19Yeah? Shall we start, then?
0:33:26 > 0:33:28It's something there, I can't breathe properly.
0:33:37 > 0:33:40Em, I don't know if I can do this, you know.
0:33:40 > 0:33:43'I never expected him to react like this.'
0:33:45 > 0:33:48Is it like a fear or...?
0:33:48 > 0:33:50Yeah, it's fear,
0:33:50 > 0:33:53not amounting to what I'm supposed to be,
0:33:53 > 0:33:57or something like that. I don't know. It's like a mental block.
0:33:58 > 0:34:02- That sort of like stops you in your track?- Yeah.
0:34:02 > 0:34:06'I'm just going to carry on, take it step by step,
0:34:06 > 0:34:08'and see if he comes around.'
0:34:11 > 0:34:12Don't they need to be chopped up more?
0:34:12 > 0:34:15If you want them chopped up more, chop them up more.
0:34:15 > 0:34:18- Smaller bits! Hide them a bit! - SHE LAUGHS
0:34:19 > 0:34:21I think I could get the hang of this.
0:34:21 > 0:34:23You are doing ace.
0:34:23 > 0:34:25Do you want to put it in?
0:34:26 > 0:34:28I can see why some people like cooking!
0:34:32 > 0:34:34You're actually making that, aren't you?
0:34:34 > 0:34:37- Bet you didn't think that this morning?- No.
0:34:37 > 0:34:40When we went to the shop and got the ingredients,
0:34:40 > 0:34:41I thought you was going to run a mile,
0:34:41 > 0:34:46then for you to come over and start helping chop the peppers and stuff,
0:34:46 > 0:34:51it was just ace. I thought, "Go on, he's done it!"
0:34:53 > 0:34:54It's like a piece of art!
0:34:57 > 0:35:00It's amazing, I feel even different in myself,
0:35:00 > 0:35:02the fact that I know now
0:35:02 > 0:35:05there's one less thing that I have to worry about.
0:35:05 > 0:35:08- Do you feel proud?- Definitely.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12'Today I've witnessed, with Sephton, that the prison system
0:35:12 > 0:35:14'hasn't done nothing for him.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17'It hasn't guided him, it hasn't helped him.'
0:35:17 > 0:35:18It's not effective,
0:35:18 > 0:35:19it's not rehabilitating him.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22It's going to be like that never-ending cycle,
0:35:22 > 0:35:23the revolving door, that keeps happening.
0:35:23 > 0:35:25He's going to come out, commit the crime
0:35:25 > 0:35:28and go back if he doesn't get the support.
0:35:30 > 0:35:35'Sephton's not the only one needing help to live on the outside.
0:35:35 > 0:35:38'Many young adult offenders are from difficult backgrounds
0:35:38 > 0:35:41'and have complex problems.
0:35:41 > 0:35:44'But from my own experience and what I've witnessed with others,
0:35:44 > 0:35:47'the prison system isn't geared up to deal with us.
0:35:49 > 0:35:51I've tracked down one of my old governors
0:35:51 > 0:35:54'at HMP Styal, Clive Chatterton,
0:35:54 > 0:35:56'who has over 40 years' experience
0:35:56 > 0:35:59'working in both male and female prisons.'
0:35:59 > 0:36:00- Hello.- Hello.
0:36:00 > 0:36:03'I want to hear what he has to say
0:36:03 > 0:36:07'about putting young, vulnerable adults behind bars.'
0:36:08 > 0:36:12What's the overall lasting impression of Styal, then, for you?
0:36:12 > 0:36:14If I was to remember Styal,
0:36:14 > 0:36:16I would just remember Styal as being
0:36:16 > 0:36:20fighting, anger, aggression.
0:36:20 > 0:36:21I was 18.
0:36:21 > 0:36:26There was, like, rapists, murderers. Someone took their own life
0:36:26 > 0:36:29within the first couple of days of me actually going into the prison.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32I wasn't new to the youth justice system, criminal justice system,
0:36:32 > 0:36:36I'd been involved since being 13, 14 and I just found it shocking.
0:36:38 > 0:36:39I can't sit here and say
0:36:39 > 0:36:43I think prison should be a pleasant experience,
0:36:43 > 0:36:46but the main aim of prison,
0:36:46 > 0:36:50and this has been the same since I've ever been involved in it,
0:36:50 > 0:36:54is always to keep people in custody. Right behind that,
0:36:54 > 0:36:58we are expected, quite rightly, to do something with the individuals
0:36:58 > 0:37:02while they are in prison to reduce the likelihood of them reoffending.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05What if prison makes the person worse, then,
0:37:05 > 0:37:07because prison made me worse?
0:37:07 > 0:37:13OK. I think, in all my time, meeting thousands and thousands of prisoners,
0:37:13 > 0:37:16there's less than a handful that I think you could say
0:37:16 > 0:37:18that prison or something has made them worse.
0:37:18 > 0:37:23One thing I always say to everyone, whether they're an offender or not,
0:37:23 > 0:37:27is that we have all got control of our own lives,
0:37:27 > 0:37:29we are all responsible for our own actions
0:37:29 > 0:37:32and I sometimes think people can look for excuses
0:37:32 > 0:37:37or want to blame others or some part of the system.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40There's a bit of me sat here,
0:37:40 > 0:37:44thinks, "Actually, prison has worked for Natalie,"
0:37:44 > 0:37:48because of this fine, young individual I see in front of me.
0:37:48 > 0:37:50I'm not trying to put a glossy spin on it.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53No, I can understand where you're coming from in that aspect.
0:37:53 > 0:37:56If I hadn't had that experience, I wouldn't be who I am today
0:37:56 > 0:37:59and I wouldn't be. I totally agree on that point,
0:37:59 > 0:38:01but prison did not help me
0:38:01 > 0:38:04and I see it with other young adults and it breaks my heart
0:38:04 > 0:38:07that people aren't strong enough to get through it
0:38:07 > 0:38:09and it's just broken.
0:38:11 > 0:38:14'I might not agree with everything Clive said,
0:38:14 > 0:38:18'but I do take his point that it's not ALL down to flaws in the system.
0:38:18 > 0:38:21'When I think about it, it wasn't until
0:38:21 > 0:38:23'I took responsibility for my own actions
0:38:23 > 0:38:27'and fully accepted I'd done wrong that I started to change.
0:38:29 > 0:38:31'I want to see what other young adult offenders
0:38:31 > 0:38:33'think about their crimes,
0:38:33 > 0:38:37'so I've come to HMP Manchester to meet 26-year-old Billy
0:38:37 > 0:38:40'who's being released after serving two months,
0:38:40 > 0:38:42'the latest of several short sentences.'
0:38:43 > 0:38:46Hello! You all right? I'm Natalie, nice to meet you.
0:38:46 > 0:38:48So you're the ex-con?
0:38:48 > 0:38:51Ex-con. Is that what we call us?!
0:38:51 > 0:38:52Are you pleased to be out?
0:38:52 > 0:38:55Yeah, obviously. I just spent two months in that shit-hole.
0:38:55 > 0:38:57So, what was you in there for?
0:38:57 > 0:38:59ABH. My brother and a copper.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02I didn't hit the copper. I dislocated his shoulder struggling
0:39:02 > 0:39:05because he was ramming my arm up my back like a prick.
0:39:05 > 0:39:06What were your other charges for?
0:39:06 > 0:39:09- Assaults.- Assaults? - And robbing cars, TWOC.
0:39:11 > 0:39:13Good old days! Only joking.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15- Were they good?- No.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18Never good when you get caught, is it?
0:39:18 > 0:39:20So, how do you feel about your offence?
0:39:20 > 0:39:22Do you feel remorseful for that?
0:39:22 > 0:39:24Do I fuck, man!
0:39:24 > 0:39:26- No.- No!- Why?
0:39:26 > 0:39:28Brother's fine, if it was someone else, I would have done.
0:39:28 > 0:39:31- What about the police officer? - Fuck him, he gets paid for it!
0:39:31 > 0:39:34Shouldn't have rammed my arm up my back, it was his own fault.
0:39:39 > 0:39:41'Billy's totally justified assaulting a police officer,
0:39:41 > 0:39:43'he's justified assaulting his brother,'
0:39:43 > 0:39:45he's not bothered about it.
0:39:48 > 0:39:51His whole attitude, he's not bothered.
0:39:51 > 0:39:53- So, where are we going now? - Probation now.
0:39:53 > 0:39:58- Probation?- Probably dive in the pub for a pint as well.
0:39:58 > 0:40:00You're dying for a pint, aren't you?
0:40:01 > 0:40:04It means you're free, when you have a pint in your hand!
0:40:14 > 0:40:18Did you get your teeth done in jail? Yeah.
0:40:18 > 0:40:19I was going around for years without teeth.
0:40:21 > 0:40:23How did you lose your teeth?
0:40:23 > 0:40:24- Drunken fight.- Yeah.
0:40:29 > 0:40:30So, how did that go?
0:40:30 > 0:40:32All right, just got to see him next Tuesday.
0:40:32 > 0:40:36- Will they get you a gym membership? - Yeah, should do.
0:40:36 > 0:40:40- Yeah. Something to keep you busy then.- Yeah.
0:40:43 > 0:40:47'Billy's short sentence doesn't seem to have done him a lot of good
0:40:47 > 0:40:50'and I want to know whether the opportunities for change
0:40:50 > 0:40:54'haven't been available or whether he just hasn't taken them.'
0:40:54 > 0:40:57What amount of your offences are assaults, then?
0:40:57 > 0:41:0120 assaults or something, about eight ABHs or something like that.
0:41:01 > 0:41:05So, have you had any help or anger management or anything?
0:41:05 > 0:41:07- No, no.- Has probation not offered you that?
0:41:07 > 0:41:10I've been offered it loads of times, but I've refused it.
0:41:10 > 0:41:12You just haven't taken it. So you have been offered that support?
0:41:12 > 0:41:13I've just refused.
0:41:15 > 0:41:17Can I go for my pint?
0:41:19 > 0:41:20'One side of it is about'
0:41:20 > 0:41:23the failures, or the system not working correctly, yeah,
0:41:23 > 0:41:26but at the end of the day, it's about the individual as well.
0:41:26 > 0:41:29If that individual is not ready to make change,
0:41:29 > 0:41:32no matter how much support is put in place,
0:41:32 > 0:41:35they're not going to change until they want to.
0:41:38 > 0:41:40'Not all prisons are the same
0:41:40 > 0:41:43'and training and employment opportunities vary.
0:41:43 > 0:41:46'On the wing at HMP Styal,
0:41:46 > 0:41:49'although I got an NVQ in painting and decorating,
0:41:49 > 0:41:51'I felt the priority was to keep me locked up.
0:41:54 > 0:41:58'But not everyone's experience is the same as mine.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01'I've come to Drake Hall, a female prison near Stafford
0:42:01 > 0:42:02'that puts a big emphasis on
0:42:02 > 0:42:05'preparing prisoners for life after release.'
0:42:05 > 0:42:08Will you just show some ID at the gate when you come in?
0:42:08 > 0:42:09All right, thank you.
0:42:09 > 0:42:12'And this time I've been let in.'
0:42:14 > 0:42:18Drake Hall houses over 300 women aged 18 and over
0:42:18 > 0:42:21and Lisa Garnett is in charge of their rehabilitation.
0:42:21 > 0:42:24I'm going to take you around and I'm going to show you
0:42:24 > 0:42:27the ethos of Drake Hall,
0:42:27 > 0:42:29which is very much resettlement focused.
0:42:29 > 0:42:31We don't particularly have cells,
0:42:31 > 0:42:34it is about women taking personal responsibility for themselves.
0:42:35 > 0:42:37Thank you.
0:42:37 > 0:42:40This is a typical house unit.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42We have a communal association room,
0:42:42 > 0:42:45a laundry area and a kitchenette.
0:42:45 > 0:42:48Do they actually have their own keys for the doors?
0:42:48 > 0:42:52Yes, here, their key is their personal key.
0:42:53 > 0:42:57- Hi, I'm Natalie.- Hi, Natalie. - Nice to meet you.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59It's nice and homely, isn't it?
0:42:59 > 0:43:02Yeah, we try and make it as homely as possible.
0:43:02 > 0:43:05'Sian's serving four and a half years for a drug-related offence
0:43:05 > 0:43:08'and has been at Drake Hall for over a year.'
0:43:08 > 0:43:13The places before I come here, you are literally locked up all the time
0:43:13 > 0:43:17unless you're working, like cleaning landings or things like that.
0:43:17 > 0:43:21Here, you have got responsibility to get yourself up and off to work
0:43:21 > 0:43:23and you don't have someone to escort you,
0:43:23 > 0:43:25- you have to go on your own. - More freedom.
0:43:25 > 0:43:29A lot more freedom, and I've been working at a dog kennel.
0:43:29 > 0:43:31I go there every week as well,
0:43:31 > 0:43:34looking after rescue dogs and things like that.
0:43:34 > 0:43:35So you actually go out?
0:43:35 > 0:43:39Yeah, I go out already, me. I've been doing it for nearly three months now.
0:43:39 > 0:43:41- Excellent.- It's good.
0:43:41 > 0:43:46So, what's the likelihood of you being released and reoffending?
0:43:46 > 0:43:48Em... No.
0:43:48 > 0:43:51Never say never, but no.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53Touch wood.
0:43:53 > 0:43:54Touch wood, touch wood! But no.
0:43:58 > 0:44:01'Drake Hall has its own hairdressing and beauty salon
0:44:01 > 0:44:05'where women can gain NVQs to help them get a job on the outside.
0:44:05 > 0:44:09'Katie's 24 and is serving seven years for drug trafficking.'
0:44:09 > 0:44:11Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Natalie.
0:44:11 > 0:44:13I would shake your hand, but I'm covered in hair.
0:44:13 > 0:44:16She's currently working towards her Level 2 NVQ.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19'Katie's just over a year away from her release
0:44:19 > 0:44:22'and ultimately wants to open her own hairdresser's.'
0:44:22 > 0:44:25It's like working in a proper salon outside.
0:44:25 > 0:44:29We have client after client after client all day. It's stressful but...
0:44:29 > 0:44:33- It's normal, though, isn't it? - Yeah, it's a bit of normality.
0:44:33 > 0:44:37They do nails and stuff, so it is good here.
0:44:37 > 0:44:39- I've got an obsession with nails. - And me!
0:44:39 > 0:44:41Yours are a lot better than mine!
0:44:41 > 0:44:43Mine are quite plain today. I've toned them down!
0:44:44 > 0:44:48Do you think, because you've been given that option here,
0:44:48 > 0:44:51to do your courses and actually focus on something,
0:44:51 > 0:44:55how much of a part has that actually played in your rehabilitation?
0:44:55 > 0:44:59A big part, definitely. I think being able to focus on something
0:44:59 > 0:45:03and know that by the end of doing this I'm going to get something out of it.
0:45:03 > 0:45:05It gives you that lifeline, really, where you actually
0:45:05 > 0:45:08- feel that you can go about and live a normal life.- Yeah.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11Cos I don't want to be just like a typical prison bird, you know -
0:45:11 > 0:45:16in and out, in and out, in and out, trapped in the system sort of thing.
0:45:16 > 0:45:22Do you think you would have had a different view if you had received a shorter sentence, under a year?
0:45:22 > 0:45:26I think, yeah. Cos I think the staff haven't really got enough time to work with you
0:45:26 > 0:45:29when you're only doing a shorter sentence.
0:45:29 > 0:45:33'It's good to see that Katie's used her long sentence productively
0:45:33 > 0:45:36'and is looking forward to life after prison.'
0:45:36 > 0:45:39I think the biggest difference I'm seeing is about support,
0:45:39 > 0:45:43and the emphasis is really on rehabilitation.
0:45:43 > 0:45:47They are getting the skills inside ready for when they're released.
0:45:47 > 0:45:49And that's one of the biggest differences.
0:45:49 > 0:45:53They're not being set up to fail, they're being set up to actually achieve.
0:45:53 > 0:45:57'I want to know whether the focus on training and employment
0:45:57 > 0:45:59'at Drake Hall has helped other women on release.'
0:45:59 > 0:46:04So generally, then, what are the reoffending rates like from Drake Hall?
0:46:04 > 0:46:10We have recently done a survey and it would appear that generally
0:46:10 > 0:46:15- we have quite a high success rate with the over-12-months.- Right.
0:46:15 > 0:46:18- The highest success rate is with anybody who serves over four years. - Right.
0:46:18 > 0:46:21There's a very low reoffending rate on that,
0:46:21 > 0:46:24but our biggest issue is with those serving under 12 months.
0:46:24 > 0:46:27That's where we have the least success rate, and again,
0:46:27 > 0:46:30that's potentially in relation to the length of time
0:46:30 > 0:46:35and the availability of the kind of courses to be done in such a short period of time.
0:46:38 > 0:46:42'It's good to know that prison can rehabilitate those on longer sentences.
0:46:45 > 0:46:48'But I want to know what the Government is doing to
0:46:48 > 0:46:53'reduce the high rate of reoffending for those on short sentences.
0:46:53 > 0:46:58'I've heard about some controversial new legislation being introduced by the Ministry of Justice.'
0:46:58 > 0:47:01'Madame Deputy Speaker, for too long the most prolific offenders
0:47:01 > 0:47:04'have historically received the least support.
0:47:04 > 0:47:06'This bill will change that.'
0:47:07 > 0:47:11'The new plans mean nearly everyone on a short sentence will have to
0:47:11 > 0:47:15'fulfil a strict 12-month supervision order on release.
0:47:15 > 0:47:18'And if they don't comply, there will be consequences.'
0:47:18 > 0:47:22- Hi, it's Natalie. I'm here to see Frances.- OK.- Thank you. - DOOR ENTRY BUZZES
0:47:22 > 0:47:24'Government critics say it's a backwards step,
0:47:24 > 0:47:28'and I've come to the Howard League for Penal Reform to find out why.'
0:47:28 > 0:47:29- Hi, Frances.- Hi, Natalie.
0:47:29 > 0:47:34'CEO Frances Crook campaigns on criminal justice policy.'
0:47:34 > 0:47:38Do you think the current bills are actually going to have an affect on the reoffending rates?
0:47:38 > 0:47:45Well, in the past, if you got a few weeks in prison, you got a few weeks in prison and then you were released.
0:47:45 > 0:47:48What the Government is going to do now is insist that
0:47:48 > 0:47:52if you get a few weeks in prison, you will, in addition to that,
0:47:52 > 0:47:54get a whole year's supervision,
0:47:54 > 0:47:57and if you don't do as you're told during that year,
0:47:57 > 0:48:04you can be breached and you can be sent to prison again afterwards, and again and again.
0:48:04 > 0:48:08So it's like several punishments for one offence.
0:48:08 > 0:48:13And it will certainly affect young people who often live quite chaotic lives, sofa surfing,
0:48:13 > 0:48:17and maybe they haven't got jobs, maybe they've got mental health problems.
0:48:17 > 0:48:21So, to do exactly as you're told and to be exactly where you're meant to be every time
0:48:21 > 0:48:24is a tall order for young people.
0:48:24 > 0:48:28So many of them will end up back in prison for several times.
0:48:28 > 0:48:33Why do you think they don't seem to class young adults as a vulnerable group?
0:48:33 > 0:48:38I don't know why there isn't a proper protection for adults.
0:48:38 > 0:48:42We protect children up to the age of 18, and that's international law.
0:48:42 > 0:48:47There's a recognised agreement that anyone under 18 is a child and needs
0:48:47 > 0:48:55special protection. But increasingly, science is showing us that 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23-year-olds,
0:48:55 > 0:49:00they haven't developed fully and they do need extra protection,
0:49:00 > 0:49:03and I hope the Government will recognise that.
0:49:05 > 0:49:10It seems to me the Government's plans could be a challenge for young adult offenders.
0:49:14 > 0:49:19'I've managed to get a meeting with the Minister for Prisons and Rehabilitation, Jeremy Wright,
0:49:19 > 0:49:22'to find out why the Government thinks the new reforms will work.'
0:49:24 > 0:49:26I'm quite nervous, to be honest, about meeting the minister,
0:49:26 > 0:49:30but I want to know how he proposes that the current legislation
0:49:30 > 0:49:33is going to reduce the high reoffending rates.
0:49:33 > 0:49:38- Jeremy Wright, nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you. - Come and have a seat.- Thank you.
0:49:38 > 0:49:42So, do you think the current legislation, then, is going to be really effective for young adults?
0:49:42 > 0:49:46What we want to do is make sure that people get some support in
0:49:46 > 0:49:48the closing stages of their prison sentence,
0:49:48 > 0:49:51and we want that support to cover the problems they've got,
0:49:51 > 0:49:56whether that's a drug addiction, whether it's problems of education, whether it's problems of training.
0:49:56 > 0:50:00We want that support to continue through that process of leaving prison
0:50:00 > 0:50:03and for at least 12 months thereafter for all adults,
0:50:03 > 0:50:08and we've changed the law just this year in order to make sure that that can happen.
0:50:08 > 0:50:12Isn't it quite risky, though, extending the 12-month supervision?
0:50:12 > 0:50:15Because obviously young adults do get a lot of short sentences.
0:50:15 > 0:50:19- They've got nearly 60% reoffending rates just of short sentences... - That's right.
0:50:19 > 0:50:22..within the first year. Isn't it risky, though, telling them
0:50:22 > 0:50:25they've got to be supervised for the year?
0:50:25 > 0:50:27Won't that have a chance of increasing reoffending rates?
0:50:27 > 0:50:32I think it's risky not to. Because, as you say, for the group of offenders that we're talking about,
0:50:32 > 0:50:34those who get sentences of 12 months or less,
0:50:34 > 0:50:37it's 60% of them reoffending within a year.
0:50:37 > 0:50:40We do need, I'm afraid, to take in hand these people.
0:50:40 > 0:50:42We need to say to those people, "Look, here's the deal.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45"We will make rehabilitation available to you,
0:50:45 > 0:50:49"but your job is to change your life yourself, you've got to do your bit.
0:50:49 > 0:50:51"You've got to engage with this process.
0:50:51 > 0:50:54"And if you don't, there will be consequences."
0:50:54 > 0:50:58- And back to prison you go. - And one of those consequences might be that you go back to custody.
0:50:58 > 0:51:02It's good, all these suggestions of positive changes, but...
0:51:02 > 0:51:06They're not just suggestions, it's what we intend to do.
0:51:06 > 0:51:11So, for 18s and over, we think it's important that somebody takes control
0:51:11 > 0:51:13of your supervision and your rehabilitation,
0:51:13 > 0:51:17so that you are supported through that difficult period of coming out of prison,
0:51:17 > 0:51:21and you're supported, as I said, for at least 12 months thereafter.
0:51:24 > 0:51:29'I understand the Government are trying to support young adults both inside prison and on release,
0:51:29 > 0:51:34'but I think some of the people I've met may struggle with this new regime.
0:51:36 > 0:51:39'I've come to south London to see Sephton.
0:51:39 > 0:51:43'In the past, he's been too anxious to attend referrals to the Oxley Centre,
0:51:43 > 0:51:47'a clinic that specialises in prisoners' mental health.
0:51:47 > 0:51:53'So I'm accompanying him to his first appointment to see psychologist Jackie Craissati.'
0:51:53 > 0:51:58- So what does it look like, then? Does it remind you of anything? - THEY CHUCKLE
0:51:58 > 0:52:03- Yeah, it reminds me of prison. - But at least you know you're coming out.- Yeah.
0:52:05 > 0:52:08'Even being in the waiting room a couple of minutes
0:52:08 > 0:52:11'is bringing back bad memories for Sephton.'
0:52:11 > 0:52:14A waiting room normally in jail is the place where
0:52:14 > 0:52:17- a lot of convicts are all together at once.- Yeah.
0:52:17 > 0:52:21- And one split second, we're fighting. - Yeah.
0:52:21 > 0:52:25And then the guy's punching the guy in the head, like, constantly.
0:52:25 > 0:52:28Sephton. Hi, I'm Jackie. Come and have a seat, Sephton.
0:52:28 > 0:52:31Natalie, if you'd like to sit there.
0:52:31 > 0:52:34I think it's some sort of anxiety.
0:52:34 > 0:52:37I get this weird thing where I kind of spaz.
0:52:37 > 0:52:41- Like, I kind of shut down. I get scared.- Yeah.
0:52:41 > 0:52:47It's like you've stepped into a battlefield, constantly on defence.
0:52:47 > 0:52:53Looking around - who's going to be negative? Who's going to...? Who's trouble? That kind of idea?
0:52:53 > 0:52:56Yeah. Who's going to get me? Who wants to hurt me?
0:52:56 > 0:52:58It pressures me. It puts too much pressure.
0:52:58 > 0:53:01It's like blowing a fuse, isn't it? What you're describing to me
0:53:01 > 0:53:05is that you're so...vigilant, that's the word we'd use,
0:53:05 > 0:53:08you're so, kind of, on red alert, di-di-di-di, all the time,
0:53:08 > 0:53:15that actually you kind of blow a fuse and you don't move.
0:53:15 > 0:53:19Ah, this makes so much sense. This is the first... Wow.
0:53:19 > 0:53:21Oh, my days! Thank you.
0:53:21 > 0:53:24My mind's moving too fast, doing so much,
0:53:24 > 0:53:28that eventually it just, kind of...
0:53:28 > 0:53:32- The body can't take it, kind of thing.- Yeah.
0:53:32 > 0:53:37How much do you think prison has to do with, like, my mental health problems?
0:53:37 > 0:53:43It's relevant, definitely. When you come out, the loss of that structure
0:53:43 > 0:53:46leads to a lot of problems in everyday life.
0:53:46 > 0:53:50If you saw some kind of psychological therapist for a little while,
0:53:50 > 0:53:53helping you with that and getting better at that...
0:53:53 > 0:53:56I think I'd be able to deal with my problems so much better
0:53:56 > 0:53:58than the way I've been dealing with them.
0:54:01 > 0:54:03So how did that half an hour help you?
0:54:03 > 0:54:07I'm not even the same person that walked in.
0:54:07 > 0:54:13- It's proper given me insight into...my life.- Mmm.
0:54:14 > 0:54:20A light bulb just come to my head. It was like, "Wow, I've got the answer, I know what it is now."
0:54:20 > 0:54:21That was amazing.
0:54:27 > 0:54:29'I've had some good news about Elliot.
0:54:29 > 0:54:34'He got his volunteer job at the YMCA, and today's his first day.'
0:54:34 > 0:54:40- Hello!- You all right? - Yeah, are you?- I'm fine, thank you. Priced by my fair hand.
0:54:40 > 0:54:44Ooh! Very good! You'll be a pro on clothes, soon.
0:54:44 > 0:54:46Yeah, well, I had a few problems today.
0:54:46 > 0:54:48I thought one of the arms was missing, right?
0:54:48 > 0:54:54- And it turned out to be a halter neck. It's very confusing. - We're complicated!
0:54:54 > 0:54:55So, has Elliot done OK, then?
0:54:55 > 0:54:57Yeah, absolutely brilliant. He's been great.
0:54:57 > 0:55:01Most people are quite nervous with it, but he's got stuck straight in.
0:55:01 > 0:55:06- Brill!- He'll be running the place soon.- I don't know about that! - Getting promoted, definitely!
0:55:06 > 0:55:08Start of things to come, definitely.
0:55:08 > 0:55:10Yeah, if it leads to something else, that's great.
0:55:10 > 0:55:13But for the time being, I'm just happy to be doing something.
0:55:13 > 0:55:15It just feels good to be doing something.
0:55:18 > 0:55:22'Sephton and Elliot are moving forward, and so am I.
0:55:22 > 0:55:25'Today's the day I get one of the last treatments for my teeth,
0:55:25 > 0:55:27'and I can't wait for my new smile.'
0:55:29 > 0:55:30No way!
0:55:31 > 0:55:34That's really good, isn't it?
0:55:34 > 0:55:38My teeth played a big part in the way I was feeling.
0:55:38 > 0:55:41Definitely. Now I can smile and I can be happy.
0:55:41 > 0:55:44I don't feel like an ex-offender. I'm just Natalie, now.
0:55:57 > 0:56:00'It's not easy moving on with your life after prison,
0:56:00 > 0:56:06'but one thing I have realised is that you can't use your past as an excuse.'
0:56:07 > 0:56:11The system isn't perfect, and we're never going to have a perfect system,
0:56:11 > 0:56:13but at the end of the day, it's also about individuals
0:56:13 > 0:56:16taking responsibility for their own actions.
0:56:16 > 0:56:21No-one can blame the system fully for the situation that they're in.
0:56:21 > 0:56:26I think my message I would have for professionals, people involved in support,
0:56:26 > 0:56:29never give up on someone and never label someone
0:56:29 > 0:56:31as a no-hoper and they're not going to achieve,
0:56:31 > 0:56:34cos no matter how much they're involved in the youth justice system,
0:56:34 > 0:56:37in the criminal justice system, change is possible.