:00:09. > :00:14.Has there ever been a worse time for London's police force? Scotland Yard
:00:15. > :00:17.has been robbed by scandal... There's to be a public enquhry in to
:00:18. > :00:21.the work of undercover officers I'm still having to fight for something
:00:22. > :00:31.that should have happened over 0 years ago. After scandal? HTW
:00:32. > :00:35.EDWARDS: a Metropolitan Polhce officer who lied about witndssing a
:00:36. > :00:38.row between police and a Cabinet Minister Downing Street has been
:00:39. > :00:44.sentenced to 12 months in prison. After scandal. They would often
:00:45. > :00:51.spend years undercover and dven strike up dramatic relationships
:00:52. > :00:55.with their targets. London hs a city of unique challenges. And ydt the
:00:56. > :01:01.figures suggest that crime hn London is actually falling, down bx about
:01:02. > :01:06.10% in the last year. Gun crime is down, burglary is down and when you
:01:07. > :01:10.ask the public whether they trust the police, polls say that they
:01:11. > :01:15.mainly do. Although one third of us still believe that their police are
:01:16. > :01:21.institutionally racist. And all of this when there is a huge spueeze on
:01:22. > :01:28.money, too. Police stations are being closed and The Met's budget is
:01:29. > :01:33.being cut by around half ?1 billion. And the man who has to leavd the
:01:34. > :01:36.force through these difficult times is Sir Bernard Hogan`Howe, `
:01:37. > :01:41.Yorkshireman who joined as ` young man on the beat at 22 and rose
:01:42. > :01:47.through the ranks of the top list `` to the toughest job in policing I
:01:48. > :01:54.will make sure that we get to the bottom of what is a terribld set of
:01:55. > :01:59.events. Tonight, he is facing the people who pay his wages. Londoners.
:02:00. > :02:05.They come from across the c`pital to ask hard questions of the m`n at the
:02:06. > :02:11.top. So, we have The Met commisshoner,
:02:12. > :02:15.Sir Bernard Hogan`Howe and our group was specially invited Londoners to
:02:16. > :02:19.ask questions. If you want to join us on Twitter, the hashtag hs police
:02:20. > :02:27.trust. Let's start with Jason Nwansi. Hello. Can you look me in
:02:28. > :02:33.the eye and assure me that there is no corruption in the Mets today
:02:34. > :02:38.No, I cannot do that entirely. What I can say is that we have a lot of
:02:39. > :02:43.integrity. It has got better than it has been in the past. But when I
:02:44. > :02:48.people, but I say everyone of them people, but I say everyone of them
:02:49. > :02:53.is a saint, they are not. Btt I m very proud of them. I think the vast
:02:54. > :02:57.majority of them do a fantastic job. There will be people who let us down
:02:58. > :03:01.and we should all be shocked and disgusted. But the vast majority do
:03:02. > :03:07.a great job and we should not lose sight of the fact that everx day, on
:03:08. > :03:11.our behalf, those people take incredible risks. But when they let
:03:12. > :03:19.us down, I feel as discussed it as you do. You had a hard time over the
:03:20. > :03:25.shredding of documents from MPs and you could not even tell us when they
:03:26. > :03:30.were traded. That is not entirely true. `` when they were shrddded.
:03:31. > :03:34.That is not entirely true. The broad point is that we are trying to get
:03:35. > :03:41.to the bottom of something that happened a long time ago. The broad
:03:42. > :03:44.allegation is that some of the documents were shredded. We need to
:03:45. > :03:50.know the motive, exactly wh`t happened and we can speculate all
:03:51. > :03:56.day. You were in the human resources part at that time, did you see any
:03:57. > :04:03.shredding then? No, I did not. The date that we were given was 200 the
:04:04. > :04:07.trouble is, if you ask someone in the audience tonight, can you
:04:08. > :04:12.remember what you were doing 12 years ago. But people understand
:04:13. > :04:19.that. We are carefully and methodically getting to the facts of
:04:20. > :04:24.what happened. But on the broad point, when you were in The Met in
:04:25. > :04:31.2002, you were not aware of corruption? These are two dhfferent
:04:32. > :04:39.questions. Was I aware of any shredding? No. But was I aw`re of
:04:40. > :04:47.corruption, there is always corruption going on. When wd are
:04:48. > :04:50.aware of it we deal with it. It is really important that we explained
:04:51. > :04:54.that we have people whose only job is to go and investigate police
:04:55. > :05:03.officers. Operation Tiberius was buried. Let him come back in.
:05:04. > :05:10.Operation Tiberius was buridd. That was quite scary. I was readhng in
:05:11. > :05:14.the Independent Online and the stuff that some of the police werd alleged
:05:15. > :05:22.to have been doing, your own internal report says, rape, drug
:05:23. > :05:31.distribution and serious crhminal activity. That is quite scary.
:05:32. > :05:33.Before he comes in, I will bring in somebody else. James Maddan, is the
:05:34. > :05:41.whole corruption critique overstated? I think so, yes. As the
:05:42. > :05:46.Commissioner has rightly sahd, there is always going to be one or two. I
:05:47. > :05:49.would be very surprised if the commissioner had been able to say
:05:50. > :05:57.that there was no corruption in the Metropolitan Police. Let's love on
:05:58. > :06:04.to trust about your crime fhgures. Looking at your screen, you will
:06:05. > :06:07.know this man's face. He is a whistle`blower. PC James Patrick. He
:06:08. > :06:12.said that we cannot trust the crime figures. There is all kinds of
:06:13. > :06:18.fiddling going on. Even things like rape and child abuse are not being
:06:19. > :06:24.recorded as crimes. You said there was truth in it. Can we not trust
:06:25. > :06:28.your figures? It is almost impossible to try and explahn the
:06:29. > :06:32.complexity of crime recording. I will not even try. There has always
:06:33. > :06:40.been some problems with these crimes recording. The public do not always
:06:41. > :06:45.tell us about the crime. So we know in terms of sexual offences, 85 of
:06:46. > :06:51.people who are attacked nevdr tell us. So the recording is alrdady a
:06:52. > :06:55.problem. Sometimes, we miss record. The sins that the system soletimes
:06:56. > :07:04.drives police officers to ptt in the wrong `` to put things in the wrong
:07:05. > :07:07.category. I invited Her Majdsty s inspector is `` inspector to come
:07:08. > :07:13.along and see if there's a problem. We will know soon. He has already
:07:14. > :07:17.said that he thinks he will find stuff in there that he will find
:07:18. > :07:21.worrying. We found that surprise in. We thought he would have a look
:07:22. > :07:26.before you came to that conclusion. But the boys are made in thd
:07:27. > :07:32.beginning is that we try our best to rely on facts. In this case, if you
:07:33. > :07:39.looked at things like crime recording, the crime statistics
:07:40. > :07:43.never tell as all the truth. It is about fiddling, that is what it is
:07:44. > :07:50.about. The British Crime Survey an anonymous survey, which does not
:07:51. > :07:54.include young people, says broadly the same thing, crime is coling
:07:55. > :07:59.down. If you looked at murddr, murder is coming down by about a
:08:00. > :08:05.quarter and young people by a third. If anybody thinks we are Miss
:08:06. > :08:11.recording murder, they are wrong. Anyone else leave that people are
:08:12. > :08:19.giving you the right story? Figures are being massaged. In some areas
:08:20. > :08:23.you get high numbers. In Barnet where I live, we had a masshve
:08:24. > :08:31.increase in burglaries. So coming down from a high is not really a
:08:32. > :08:35.reduction. And my concern is that a reduction in budget means a
:08:36. > :08:39.reduction in resources which means a reduction in effective policing I
:08:40. > :08:43.live in the largest borough in London was one of the highest
:08:44. > :08:48.populations. And yet historhcally, we have been starved of resources.
:08:49. > :08:53.Previous borough commanders have almost pleaded for officers and with
:08:54. > :08:58.little result. We have police stations closed and we are having to
:08:59. > :09:01.run outside `` we are having to bring in outside officers and
:09:02. > :09:07.although burglary has come down it was at the most horrendous time Can
:09:08. > :09:12.I take one point, which I do agree with you. If a crime goes through
:09:13. > :09:18.the roof, then the following year, we see a reduction. One exalple
:09:19. > :09:24.theft of mobile phones. In the last couple of years, and in manx big
:09:25. > :09:31.capitals, mobile phone theft went through the roof. This year, we have
:09:32. > :09:35.reduced it by 30%. 30% of a large number, so in that sense, I agree
:09:36. > :09:40.with you. Let's talk about the reality of crime and whether you
:09:41. > :09:48.feel safer way you live as ` result of Sir Bernard's work.
:09:49. > :09:53.With the police, all year is the bad things they do, never the good. I
:09:54. > :09:59.think what the police have to deal with, they are amazing. Thex are
:10:00. > :10:03.human. They are not all good. You get a few nasty ones, but on the
:10:04. > :10:11.whole, they are doing an am`zing job. There is a load of thel outside
:10:12. > :10:15.the block at 1am. Give me the details, and I will sort it out I
:10:16. > :10:23.think the police are easier to approach than they were before. Now
:10:24. > :10:31.they are encouraged to commtnicate with the community and say hello.
:10:32. > :10:36.The importance of a police station in the local community is htge. Not
:10:37. > :10:41.everybody is able to get on a bus or travel to their nearest polhce
:10:42. > :10:45.station. Communities need access to the police. Closing police stations
:10:46. > :10:48.will not help. They need to be able to go whenever they need it.
:10:49. > :10:53.And Silla is in our audiencd here, in the front row. Sir Bernard, can
:10:54. > :10:56.you look her in the eye and say that these police station closurds are
:10:57. > :11:00.not going to hurt her neighbourhood? I can't guarantee it, Silla. I mean,
:11:01. > :11:04.one of the things I agree is that to have a police station as part of the
:11:05. > :11:08.community is very important. As with the Post Office. It's huge, really.
:11:09. > :11:13.All the different reasons why people find a police station a good idea
:11:14. > :11:18.that a good idea. But there are two issues that we have to deal with. It
:11:19. > :11:21.is the money that the public spending and that ?600 millhon I
:11:22. > :11:25.refer to is that we are havhng to save, we have only got so m`ny
:11:26. > :11:30.options. We can have less police but I think having as many police as we
:11:31. > :11:36.have is a good idea. But thd majority of people who want us ring
:11:37. > :11:41.us. In the two and a half ydars I have been you, five and a h`lf
:11:42. > :11:45.million people ring us. If xou want us, we will come. There is no
:11:46. > :11:53.screening. Whatever the crile, however minor, `` however mhnor we
:11:54. > :11:56.will come. We have kept open our big buildings that some buildings have
:11:57. > :12:00.been in places that people did not go any more. And when you h`ve only
:12:01. > :12:07.so much money, you have onlx so many choices. Seller, were that the OK?
:12:08. > :12:12.We don't have any choice, bdcause this is down to the governmdnt, they
:12:13. > :12:18.are stopping your money. I `gree with Seller, the bedrock of what
:12:19. > :12:25.policing is about is having a relationship with the community
:12:26. > :12:30.Especially with our youngstdrs! But the way that `` the money wd are
:12:31. > :12:37.saving, we will get 2600 more officers into officers and 0000 ``
:12:38. > :12:42.into stations, and 1000 mord into response. But some of the officers
:12:43. > :12:49.have drifted into non`jobs. Cynthia? I think she is right about
:12:50. > :12:55.something that police are doing are not coming out. We have dond so much
:12:56. > :13:00.work in engaging police. We have 600 city safe havens, a police `` a
:13:01. > :13:07.place where police `` a place where people can go for the warrant
:13:08. > :13:12.immediate danger. Not enough of that is mentioned. We as the comlunity
:13:13. > :13:15.have also something to do. We have to work with them and they're
:13:16. > :13:21.working with us, it is a two`way thing. Let's talk about detdction
:13:22. > :13:25.rates. Sir Bernard, you said you were not happy with detection rates
:13:26. > :13:28.as they currently are. The audience, what percentage of
:13:29. > :13:37.robberies in audience are solved? Let's see a percentage. 20%, you
:13:38. > :13:42.say? 30%? You are bidding slightly higher, but you are in the
:13:43. > :13:48.ballpark. The ex`policeman hs closest, 15%. The percentagd chance
:13:49. > :13:58.of a thief being caught if xour car is stolen tonight while you are in
:13:59. > :14:05.here? Anyone? 5% 2%? You know where we are going with this. 8%. We only
:14:06. > :14:12.solve a percent of car thefts. How many crimes in London are solved,
:14:13. > :14:17.22%. Not enough. You didn't mention murder, Jeremy. Form either it is
:14:18. > :14:24.85%. That is different, these murderer is known to the victim I
:14:25. > :14:36.have said already, I'm not happy with these percentages. But the
:14:37. > :14:39.murder solving rate is nearly 9 %. I think you're being disingentous with
:14:40. > :14:42.the figures. "Lies damned lhes and statistics," a quote from Bdnjamin
:14:43. > :14:45.Disraeli, but the fact is that when you have a murder, it's horrific.
:14:46. > :14:48.You throw everything at it. You throw your major commands at it You
:14:49. > :14:52.throw your most experienced detectives at it. You throw all your
:14:53. > :14:55.computer systems that you h`ve and all the intelligence that you have
:14:56. > :14:59.and you are to be congratul`ted I don't want to patronize you. You are
:15:00. > :15:02.to be congratulated on the very very high rate you have in detection
:15:03. > :15:06.and conviction when it comes to murders. The fact is that mtrder in
:15:07. > :15:08.this capital city of ours, thankfully, is relatively lhttle, is
:15:09. > :15:11.relatively low. People don't experience murder in their family,
:15:12. > :15:14.thankfully, very often. What they do experience is that their car's being
:15:15. > :15:17.nicked and their home's being burgled and their kids are being
:15:18. > :15:20.mugged for their phones and their ipods and their androids and that's
:15:21. > :15:24.the important thing. I understand what you're saying but my rdason for
:15:25. > :15:27.mentioning it is because in Jeremy's list he didn't include the lurder
:15:28. > :15:29.figures because that was a good news story. So, therefore, as
:15:30. > :15:33.representing my organisation, I m going to talk about that because if
:15:34. > :15:37.I don't, who will? Why not talk about what...? I'm going to come
:15:38. > :15:40.back to that, I was just trxing to put a bit of balance into your
:15:41. > :15:44.unbalanced account, Jeremy. All right. In terms of the general, you
:15:45. > :15:47.know, the general point abott volume crime, I agree entirely, thdse are
:15:48. > :15:50.the crimes people experiencd most. Only three ways to detect crime You
:15:51. > :15:54.catch them doing it. We catch about 18% of burglars, who we catch, we
:15:55. > :15:57.catch them actually at the scene. Forensics, or someone tells us who
:15:58. > :16:00.did it, which is why communhty policing is so important because
:16:01. > :16:04.generally people know who commits crime. Challenge in London, and I
:16:05. > :16:07.don't accept it as a defencd but as a challenge, we've got a very big
:16:08. > :16:10.transient population and many of our population has actually arrhved
:16:11. > :16:14.quite recently and some of the intelligence that we have of people
:16:15. > :16:16.who've been here for 20, 30 years aren't in the same position.
:16:17. > :16:20.Frankly, some of the communhties don't tell us things and I challenge
:16:21. > :16:23.myself about that. They shotld trust us enough to tell us who is
:16:24. > :16:27.committing crime but not evdryone does. So there are reasons hn this
:16:28. > :16:30.city which are different, btt no excuse, so my challenge... For me,
:16:31. > :16:34.I've said to our force, this coming year I want it to be the ye`r of
:16:35. > :16:37.detection. Get out there and detect, don't just record it. I don't want
:16:38. > :16:42.people who are administrators. I want people who are going to stop
:16:43. > :16:46.the crime, and one of the bdst ways to stop crime is to catch the person
:16:47. > :16:49.who did it and for me, I acknowledge, we don't do enough of
:16:50. > :16:53.it. Let's? And yet there's just one final thing which is a positive in
:16:54. > :16:57.this city, and some people `rgue against it, but it's CCTV. We may
:16:58. > :16:59.not be the North of Wales where they have, you know, small communities,
:17:00. > :17:03.they notice unusual things, very high detection rates. We do have
:17:04. > :17:07.opportunities here and I thhnk we need to make more of them. Let's
:17:08. > :17:10.move on to another area that is fraught with difficulties for the
:17:11. > :17:14.Met. I think the first time I got stopped was probably when I was
:17:15. > :17:17.about 12 on my estate where I live, Gypsy Hill. They say what they
:17:18. > :17:21.always say, you know, like, "You fit the description." That's prdtty much
:17:22. > :17:25.all you ever hear. I thought, and still do think in a lot of ways the
:17:26. > :17:29.police are very hypocritical cos they don't represent what they're
:17:30. > :17:33.meant to stand for. They sax they're meant to stand for justice but I
:17:34. > :17:40.think they are very unjust hn a lot of ways. I'm not a criminal, I don't
:17:41. > :17:46.have a criminal record and they make me feel as if I am a crimin`l. A lot
:17:47. > :17:52.of young, black youths get stopped and are stereotyped. I belidve that,
:17:53. > :17:57.in certain areas, police can make a difference. If people know the
:17:58. > :18:01.police are around, they're not likely to carry out a crime. But if
:18:02. > :18:05.you are in the wrong place `t the wrong time you will get stopped and
:18:06. > :18:11.searched. In a lot of situations, they won't come down on you lightly.
:18:12. > :18:16.I used to get angry about it but I'm so used to it, and I don't think
:18:17. > :18:21.it's ever going to stop. Well, Carl is here. How manx times
:18:22. > :18:24.was it? 50, 51? Over, I couldn't honestly keep count of how lany
:18:25. > :18:29.times I've been stopped and searched. On what basis, I don't
:18:30. > :18:32.particularly know. Erm, I think a lot of the figures, as we mdntioned
:18:33. > :18:36.earlier, are incorrect, due to the fact that I don't think you liase
:18:37. > :18:42.with young people. I saw th`t 8 % of people think the police, yot know,
:18:43. > :18:45.are...do trust the police. H think that figure is also incorrect. Do
:18:46. > :18:54.those figures include young people, for one? For two, I don't think ..
:18:55. > :18:57.You say that, erm, police, for example people like contacthng the
:18:58. > :19:01.police. I think police lack communicating with services in the
:19:02. > :19:04.community in general, for example... You watched that, Sir Bernard. It's
:19:05. > :19:08.concerning that film, isn't it, when Carl hasn't committed a crile ever?
:19:09. > :19:11.Yeah, I mean I apologise, C`rl, if what you just described is xour
:19:12. > :19:16.experience. I don't think it's very good. One of the things I fhnd as I
:19:17. > :19:20.came back to the Met two and a half years ago, your story I heard too
:19:21. > :19:23.many of, so I've done something about it. It's not perfect, as
:19:24. > :19:26.you've described, but, I me`n, before the riots, 2010, 2010, we
:19:27. > :19:31.were stop searching about 840,0 0 people a year and stop and
:19:32. > :19:35.accounting about another 350,00 . That's 1.2 million people. Can I
:19:36. > :19:38.just make this point, Carl, because it's really important for md? That's
:19:39. > :19:41.a lot of people even out of 8.4 million people. Of course it's, as
:19:42. > :19:45.your experience, sometimes people are stopped more than once, in your
:19:46. > :19:49.terms, in your case, a lot of times. And then this type of meeting I have
:19:50. > :19:53.in a borough, different borough of London every four weeks, so we get
:19:54. > :19:56.probably 50, 200 people togdther and your story I heard from too many
:19:57. > :20:00.parents who are sick and tired of their kids being stopped. Ndver been
:20:01. > :20:04.in trouble like you've described and probably never would be. And so I
:20:05. > :20:07.didn't like it and I looked at the statistics as well, but, as you
:20:08. > :20:11.know, as you said, the stats don't tell you everything. So we have done
:20:12. > :20:14.something about it. We've rdduced those stop searches to a thhrd of
:20:15. > :20:17.what they were. We've reducdd the disproportionality, whether someone
:20:18. > :20:20.is black or white and what percentage of the population they
:20:21. > :20:24.are. So you're now as likelx to be stopped if you're Asian as hf you're
:20:25. > :20:27.white. That wasn't the case after 9/11. It went hugely the other way,
:20:28. > :20:31.and if you're a black guy, then you're 2.4 times more likelx, so
:20:32. > :20:35.that's still got some way to go but it's a lot better than it w`s and
:20:36. > :20:38.we've halved the number of complaints. Can I just...? This is
:20:39. > :20:41.the final thing from me. Thhs is such a contentious thing for the
:20:42. > :20:44.reasons you've described, I've actually contemplated, should we
:20:45. > :20:47.stop it and everybody I've talked to, we'll see what this audhence
:20:48. > :20:51.says tonight, they've said, "Don't stop it but that you've got to do it
:20:52. > :20:54.properly, to the right people in the right way," and that's we'vd spent
:20:55. > :20:58.two years trying to improve. Jamal, you're a friend of Carl's. Have you
:20:59. > :21:01.seen any change since these policies were altered? No, not reallx. Even
:21:02. > :21:05.the day they were doing the filming, the two young youths who live in the
:21:06. > :21:08.area approached me and said they just got stopped. Just got stopped.
:21:09. > :21:13.You know, it's a regular occurrence, and when I was a young man, it was
:21:14. > :21:17.SUS, as you pointed out where the... We were sussed when we was coming
:21:18. > :21:21.up, so I don't think it will change. I think there's a problem whth it.
:21:22. > :21:25.Jamal, I think this city has had three, at least three levels of SUS.
:21:26. > :21:28.It had the SUS of the '60s. A law for those who are too young to
:21:29. > :21:31.remember which meant that on suspicion people could be stopped.
:21:32. > :21:35.After 9/11, Section 44 of the Terrorism Act meant it was random
:21:36. > :21:38.stop search, right across London. A piece of law that was never intended
:21:39. > :21:42.for random stop search, it was intended for very small are`s, but
:21:43. > :21:45.was put in place right across London and finally, this is import`nt. One
:21:46. > :21:49.of the things I discovered when I came back in 2011 was that section
:21:50. > :21:53.60, which is a power a senior officer can put in place in a small
:21:54. > :21:59.area, say there's been a gang fight, for a short period of time, was like
:22:00. > :22:03.confetti all over the place. We ve reduced those by 95% and in those
:22:04. > :22:07.areas it was random stop se`rch And yet you have... So I think what I
:22:08. > :22:11.can show is, I'm not going to try and argue that we don't makd bad
:22:12. > :22:15.stop searches, I'm not going to try and argue that we have everxbody's
:22:16. > :22:18.perfect to the police officdr, but I know I can show that we've done far
:22:19. > :22:22.less and we're still seeing less woundings, less shootings and I
:22:23. > :22:26.think what we're showing we can do less of it and do better. You do
:22:27. > :22:28.have this problem where a third of people think the Met is
:22:29. > :22:32.institutionally racist. Adal Cooper, do you think it is? Well, if we look
:22:33. > :22:36.at statistics at every juncture of the criminal justice system, black
:22:37. > :22:39.people are only more likely to be stopped and searched, they're more
:22:40. > :22:42.likely to be charged, they're more likely to be arrested. In f`ct at
:22:43. > :22:44.every single juncture, black people are disproportionately affected He
:22:45. > :22:48.says he's changing that. He's changing it. Well, the figures came
:22:49. > :22:51.out last year and they appe`r to be quite consistent. So the problem
:22:52. > :22:55.isn't just stop and search, it's at every juncture of the criminal
:22:56. > :22:58.justice system. So what do xou think that tells us about institutional
:22:59. > :23:01.racism? Well, I'm not sure. I think you're accepting... Well, I don t
:23:02. > :23:04.know whether you are accepthng but I think you're accepting to some
:23:05. > :23:08.extent, stop and search has changed. If you believe our stats and I think
:23:09. > :23:11.there's a truth in there th`t I think we should at least
:23:12. > :23:14.acknowledge. Less of it. Less disproportionate and it's more
:23:15. > :23:18.effective. So we're doing otr best and I think it will still kdep on
:23:19. > :23:21.coming down. So I think that's true. I can't entirely explain all the
:23:22. > :23:23.things you've just explained too. The education system, you do see
:23:24. > :23:26.disproportionality. There are very many ways in which society hs
:23:27. > :23:31.unfair. I can't entirely explain that, nor can I account for it. But
:23:32. > :23:35.I admit it. I acknowledge it. I m in control of what I do and I'll do my
:23:36. > :23:39.best to make sure that we'rd fair but I can't change society hn the
:23:40. > :23:42.way that probably we need to. Bring in some other voices here on whether
:23:43. > :23:46.the Met is institutionally racist. Would you join the police, Jason?
:23:47. > :23:50.No, I wouldn't. I would join but the only way I would join is at a senior
:23:51. > :23:54.rank, for the reason being, I reckon the root and branch of officers have
:23:55. > :23:58.good nature and they want to do the right thing. I reckon where the
:23:59. > :24:01.problem is, is at the top end. Where you look at ACPOL and we're talking
:24:02. > :24:05.about accountability to the general public, I reckon there is too much
:24:06. > :24:09.managers, too many chiefs and for the people who are doing thd job on
:24:10. > :24:11.the ground floor, African, Caribbean liaison officers, safe
:24:12. > :24:14.neighbourhood, I think they do a magnificent job but I think the
:24:15. > :24:17.problem is, is the direction that they've given and the senior
:24:18. > :24:21.officers aren't out on the streets. A former senior officer in here Roy
:24:22. > :24:24.Ram, who hasn't spoken yet. Roy what do you think of that? H
:24:25. > :24:27.actually think that the, thhs phrase of institutional racism has been
:24:28. > :24:31.immensely damaging and immensely unhelpful. I was in the Met when it
:24:32. > :24:34.was, when it was coined. Thdre were racists in the Met and therd have
:24:35. > :24:37.been racists in other organhsations I've worked in subsequently but the
:24:38. > :24:39.idea that the institution is fostering racist policies and
:24:40. > :24:43.procedures was complete nonsense. Adam disagrees with you herd for
:24:44. > :24:45.sure. Yeah, the fact that the statistics cannot be explained in
:24:46. > :24:49.any other way than through institutional racism is all of the
:24:50. > :24:52.evidence that we need in order to prove that the police are
:24:53. > :24:54.institutionally racist. If we cannot explain it any other way th`n
:24:55. > :24:57.through institutional racisl, then institutional racism is the only
:24:58. > :25:00.explanation that we have. And particularly if you are victimised
:25:01. > :25:04.by the institutional racism is why you care about it and why you
:25:05. > :25:07.articulate it and why we all not stop talking about it until it's
:25:08. > :25:10.sorted out. Anyone else? Anxone else want to say whether they wotld or
:25:11. > :25:14.wouldn't join the police. R`shan, would you join? Yes, absolutely I
:25:15. > :25:17.would join the police because the role itself is about serving and
:25:18. > :25:20.protecting society and when an officer is an officer of thd law,
:25:21. > :25:25.they have that sort of pridd and that's what I would bring to it if I
:25:26. > :25:28.was a police officer. But I'd also, as well as my role policing the
:25:29. > :25:31.community and, you know, cutting down on crime, I'd want to build
:25:32. > :25:35.relations with the communitx. I believe that's what all polhce
:25:36. > :25:38.officers should do when thex go in to it. Fulfil their role but also
:25:39. > :25:42.don't forget the community `s well. What more can you do to convince
:25:43. > :25:45.that half of London that isn't white that it's their police forcd too?
:25:46. > :25:49.Well, the first thing is, wd've got a great opportunity because we are
:25:50. > :25:52.recruiting 5,000 people, to get more people from all communities. But I
:25:53. > :25:56.have to put the challenge b`ck, which is that if people takd that
:25:57. > :25:59.view and say, I'm prepared to help, we will change. And if people say,
:26:00. > :26:02.well, I'm not prepared to hdlp because I don't like it, it will
:26:03. > :26:06.never change. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not thinking
:26:07. > :26:10.it's too negative, but I thhnk it's a general view. I wouldn't join the
:26:11. > :26:13.force as it stands now. I understand that but we'll never get to that new
:26:14. > :26:17.place if everyone takes that view. Yeah, but you have to changd first.
:26:18. > :26:22.Well, we may never get therd. I think it's got to be a mix of the
:26:23. > :26:24.two because I think one of the things... Why would I enter
:26:25. > :26:27.something that's not welcomhng to me? At the moment it's not
:26:28. > :26:30.welcoming. You guys don't even support whistle`blowers. Th`t's why
:26:31. > :26:33.I say it's a bit of both. Whistle`blowers within your own
:26:34. > :26:36.organisation are often ostr`cized by you know, yourselves. So how can we
:26:37. > :26:40.support you? I wouldn't feel comfortable. The only thing I would
:26:41. > :26:44.say is that you know, you m`de the point about somebody joining at a
:26:45. > :26:47.senior level. The Met is ond of only I think it's a couple of forces in
:26:48. > :26:52.the country where that's gohng to happen this year. So I support it. I
:26:53. > :26:56.have to tell you that all mx senior colleagues do. Many people, and Roy
:26:57. > :26:59.Ram may be one of them, I don't know, he'll have to speak for
:27:00. > :27:03.himself, think that to be a senior police officer, you have to start at
:27:04. > :27:07.the bottom and work your wax up I think, generally, that's bedn very
:27:08. > :27:10.powerful for us. I do think we need to have some talent coming hn and
:27:11. > :27:13.more representation at a senior level quicker. Now, when thdse
:27:14. > :27:17.people come in, we'll not t`ke 00, we may take five or ten this year
:27:18. > :27:20.but they will come in at a superintendent level, they lay
:27:21. > :27:24.have... I don't care what they've done before, they've got to have
:27:25. > :27:27.talent and they've got to bd able to lead people and they've got to be
:27:28. > :27:31.able to communicate. Well, thank you. We've still got questions
:27:32. > :27:34.coming in here but we're out of time and I have to say thank you very
:27:35. > :27:37.much to Sir Bernard Hogan`Howe for coming, the Met Commissioner, thank
:27:38. > :27:40.you to our invited audience of Londoners. Thanks to you, vdry much
:27:41. > :27:44.indeed, for watching this programme and goodnight. APPLAUSE. I've got a
:27:45. > :27:49.lot of faith in him. He has got a humongous task in front of him. A
:27:50. > :27:52.lot of things were unanswerdd. In terms of the organisation of the
:27:53. > :28:00.police, there are a lot of things still answer dash`mac an answer for.
:28:01. > :28:03.Very helpful. I believe the guy I think he is sincere. I think he
:28:04. > :28:11.really wants to make changes for the better. As communities we all so
:28:12. > :28:19.have a duty. I think we can do it. Nobody is doing it. Unless he is
:28:20. > :28:26.going to go in there and do what the police did in the 1960s, a lassive
:28:27. > :28:30.culling of officers, he is not going to succeed. I do believe he is a
:28:31. > :29:10.distant man dash`mac decent man Hello, I'm Riz Lateef with xour 90
:29:11. > :29:14.second update. Objects ` including this ond ` have
:29:15. > :29:19.been spotted during the hunt for the missing plane. It comes aftdr the
:29:20. > :29:23.search was shifted to a new area. But it is not yet known if the
:29:24. > :29:26.debris is from flight 370. Hundreds of thousands of chhldren `
:29:27. > :29:29.some as young as six ` are watching porn on the internet. So saxs the
:29:30. > :29:34.video`on`demand regulator. Ht wants the government to make sure all
:29:35. > :29:39.adult sites have age checks. Two people in Britain have caught
:29:40. > :29:45.tuberculosis from a pet cat. They are the first known cases of cat to
:29:46. > :29:49.human transmission in the world But experts say the risk to owndrs is
:29:50. > :29:53.very small. Would you go to a gay wedding? From
:29:54. > :29:56.midnight, same`sex marriage is legal in England and Wales. A BBC poll
:29:57. > :29:59.suggests around one in five adults would turn down an invite.
:30:00. > :30:02.This is the moving moment a Gateshead woman ` deaf from birth `
:30:03. > :30:05.heard for the very first tile. Joanne Milne had just had e`r
:30:06. > :30:07.implants switched on. She s`ys it was overwhelming.
:30:08. > :30:10.Hello, I'm Alice Bhandhukravi with the latest from London.
:30:11. > :30:11.If you live in