0:00:02 > 0:00:05This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.
0:00:05 > 0:00:09It wasn't secret, it was shame.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11- Wasn't it?- What? - You were ashamed of it.
0:00:15 > 0:00:19It went through my mind, should I tell my wife?
0:00:19 > 0:00:23- Do you know what happened to Kevin? - Not completely, no.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25You think you've got the marriage, you've got the friendship,
0:00:25 > 0:00:27you've got the closeness, you've got it all.
0:00:27 > 0:00:28Then all of a sudden,
0:00:28 > 0:00:32there's this great big "woah"... that you didn't know about.
0:00:32 > 0:00:37For decades, there was a secret at the heart of British life.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39I don't think I told you for years, did I?
0:00:39 > 0:00:41You didn't, you didn't.
0:00:41 > 0:00:43And even then, you still haven't told me fully.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47I don't want to have that in my head.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50It lay hidden in our biggest institutions...
0:00:54 > 0:00:55..and within ordinary families.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00She told me not to tell anybody.
0:01:02 > 0:01:06I wiped it, wiped it from my memory entirely.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10For how long?
0:01:10 > 0:01:1146 years.
0:01:14 > 0:01:18But when the truth about one man was revealed,
0:01:18 > 0:01:21a nation was forced to examine its past.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23And the secret was out.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29It was like releasing the pressure on a slow cooker.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33It felt good, because now everything was out there.
0:01:33 > 0:01:38It was a huge release. A great weight had been lifted from her
0:01:38 > 0:01:41because she could talk about it without feeling worried,
0:01:41 > 0:01:42without feeling ashamed.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44I'm not ashamed.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48This is my face. This is what I look like.
0:01:48 > 0:01:49I have done nothing wrong.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56These are the people who broke their silence...
0:01:58 > 0:01:59..and changed a nation.
0:02:26 > 0:02:31"'She's gone', Tia whispered, her heart thumping so hard
0:02:31 > 0:02:35"it almost hurt, 'someone's taken her!'
0:02:35 > 0:02:38"But she wasn't going to wait around and find out."
0:02:38 > 0:02:40Oh, there's a picture.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44- Can you see that? - Yeah.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47This is starting to sound quite sad, isn't it?
0:02:47 > 0:02:50Yeah, I know what's happened...
0:02:50 > 0:02:54Just thinking about what Katy has to do, and give evidence,
0:02:54 > 0:02:56someone's going to cross-examine her
0:02:56 > 0:02:59and try and pick fault in everything.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02As somebody who loves Katy and wants to protect her,
0:03:02 > 0:03:06watching her do that and having to stand back and watch it,
0:03:06 > 0:03:08it really hurts.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16Sorry to compare it to this, but it's like getting married.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19You know, that nervousness.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21- You're shaking. - I know!
0:03:23 > 0:03:26Yeah, I am. Oh, jeez.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Today, Katy will face the man
0:03:29 > 0:03:32she claims abused her and her friend when she was nine.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39After 24 years of waiting, she's going to court for his trial.
0:03:41 > 0:03:45It's today where I, er, say to the court what happened,
0:03:45 > 0:03:48the day that I thought would never happen.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51And it will be over, it will be over.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53And in that sense, yeah, it will be a relief,
0:03:53 > 0:03:58because this has hanging over my family for too long.
0:03:58 > 0:04:00I want it out of my life.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03I want the verdict to be guilty
0:04:03 > 0:04:06so that he can be on the register
0:04:06 > 0:04:08and so that children can be protected.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12Are we going in the back?
0:04:18 > 0:04:21I only want to take one because they'll make me drowsy.
0:04:21 > 0:04:25But I think I'll need it to give the evidence
0:04:25 > 0:04:28without me panicking and throwing up.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32It's my aim not to throw up.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34SHE EXHALES
0:04:42 > 0:04:45Oh, we're here, I didn't realise we were here.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47There's Nicky.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49I'm just going to get the stuff out the boot, OK?
0:04:49 > 0:04:51All right, yeah, no worries.
0:04:53 > 0:04:55- You can't leave the car there. - It'll be fine, it'll be fine.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02Katy is one of an ever-growing number of people seeking justice
0:05:02 > 0:05:05for abuse they say happened when they were children.
0:05:07 > 0:05:09In the last four years,
0:05:09 > 0:05:13the police have seen a 60% increase in reports of child abuse.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17That rise can be traced back to events
0:05:17 > 0:05:20that began unfolding in 2011.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31- NEWSREADER: - Sir Jimmy Savile's funeral cortege
0:05:31 > 0:05:34today took him on one final trip round his home city.
0:05:38 > 0:05:43He said he had done it all, seen it all, got it all,
0:05:43 > 0:05:45and if I might add, given it all.
0:05:50 > 0:05:55On his headstone will be the epitaph he wrote for himself.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57It reads "It was good while it lasted."
0:06:02 > 0:06:05I remember the funeral, just not watching it.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09Which was bizarre,
0:06:09 > 0:06:13cos you sort of think, oh, I should be relieved that he was dead.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16But at that time, I didn't realise
0:06:16 > 0:06:19that what he'd done to me he'd done to other people.
0:06:19 > 0:06:24Well, actually, I was sort of cross that, you know,
0:06:24 > 0:06:27I couldn't, like, give him a slap round the face.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32It was very sad that he died before he was found out.
0:06:32 > 0:06:36It was all Savile, here, there, all the time
0:06:36 > 0:06:39and you thought, "When's this man going to go off?"
0:06:39 > 0:06:42Avoid it, that was what we did.
0:06:42 > 0:06:43Avoid, avoid, avoid.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45I couldn't watch it.
0:06:45 > 0:06:47I just spent the whole time, "Why is...?"
0:06:47 > 0:06:50I can't listen to what anybody is saying
0:06:50 > 0:06:53because that face is there and there and there again.
0:06:53 > 0:06:58I hate him and I wish he was alive so he could be punished.
0:06:58 > 0:06:59I wish he hadn't died.
0:07:01 > 0:07:06The legacy of what he did bothers me every day.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08I need to share now.
0:07:08 > 0:07:10And I need to talk now.
0:07:10 > 0:07:17Back then, it never occurred to me to say anything.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19Who was going to believe me?
0:07:19 > 0:07:21Who would believe me?
0:07:24 > 0:07:29Karin Ward was one of those watching Savile's funeral at home.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31She had been writing an online account
0:07:31 > 0:07:34of years of physical and sexual abuse.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37I just wrote an autobiography
0:07:37 > 0:07:41from the very earliest that I could remember,
0:07:41 > 0:07:43just wrote down what had happened.
0:07:43 > 0:07:48I never had the remotest clue that anyone could download it.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51But Meirion found it, read it.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55That's what started the ball rolling.
0:07:58 > 0:08:00When I moved to BBC Television in the mid-'90s,
0:08:00 > 0:08:04there were people there who would tell you stories about Savile.
0:08:04 > 0:08:05Now, I would try and track it down.
0:08:05 > 0:08:07I never found a victim or a witness,
0:08:07 > 0:08:09but the stories were everywhere.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14For years, journalists had investigated rumours
0:08:14 > 0:08:16that Savile was a paedophile.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19But no victim had ever gone public.
0:08:19 > 0:08:23I come across Karin Ward's autobiography online,
0:08:23 > 0:08:26one of these do-it-yourself writing sites.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31What she revealed was the abuse by "JS".
0:08:31 > 0:08:33And immediately, it's obvious who it is.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39Karin described "JS" as a cigar-smoking celebrity
0:08:39 > 0:08:43who sexually abused her and her school friends.
0:08:43 > 0:08:45This is a fantastic memoir,
0:08:45 > 0:08:48she's absolutely caught everything that's going on.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51Now he was dead, I thought we could get her to do an interview,
0:08:51 > 0:08:53perhaps, if I could persuade her.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55So I rang up Karin.
0:08:56 > 0:09:00And he said, "This JS that you mention, would I be right
0:09:00 > 0:09:03"in assuming that's Jimmy Savile?"
0:09:03 > 0:09:05And I said, "Yes, yes, it is."
0:09:13 > 0:09:17The Savile thing was only a paragraph or two,
0:09:17 > 0:09:19where I was describing Duncroft.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26Home Office-approved school
0:09:26 > 0:09:30for intelligent but emotionally-disturbed girls.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34Until Jimmy Savile came along,
0:09:34 > 0:09:37it was the safest place I'd ever been.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43We used to laugh and giggle
0:09:43 > 0:09:46about whoever had been out in his car,
0:09:46 > 0:09:50you know, the things that he did, and made us do.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52We would say, "He's a dirty old man!"
0:09:52 > 0:09:55And we'd go off into screams of laughter.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59We'd tell each other what had happened that day.
0:10:04 > 0:10:07And then, of course, Meirion rang me.
0:10:08 > 0:10:10He was...pleasant,
0:10:10 > 0:10:12but very persistent.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20Meirion took a team from the BBC's Newsnight programme to meet Karin.
0:10:20 > 0:10:24It was just five days after Savile was buried.
0:10:24 > 0:10:26Part of the reason she did the interview
0:10:26 > 0:10:29was that she was going into hospital for a very serious operation,
0:10:29 > 0:10:31and she thought she might not survive it.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34So there was an element of that death-bed confession.
0:10:34 > 0:10:35What have I got to lose?
0:10:37 > 0:10:41It doesn't matter if nobody believes me, cos I'll be dead.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45This footage is the first known filmed interview
0:10:45 > 0:10:48with one of Savile's victims.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51He promised me that if I gave him oral sex,
0:10:51 > 0:10:54that he would arrange for me and my friends
0:10:54 > 0:10:57to go to Television Centre and be on his television show.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03Going into the story, I'd been,
0:11:03 > 0:11:05not exactly sceptical,
0:11:05 > 0:11:07I could believe anything was true,
0:11:07 > 0:11:10but I didn't know that it was true.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12So I was there to be convinced and persuaded.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15And I hadn't spoken to her before the interview -
0:11:15 > 0:11:18I'd read her accounts of what had happened,
0:11:18 > 0:11:23but it was meeting her and talking to her that...
0:11:23 > 0:11:25That was it, then.
0:11:25 > 0:11:29I absolutely knew that she was telling the truth.
0:11:29 > 0:11:30As they left...
0:11:32 > 0:11:34..at the front door, I said to them,
0:11:34 > 0:11:36"Look, it's rife,
0:11:36 > 0:11:41"it's bigger than you can possibly imagine.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43"And I don't know how I know that,
0:11:43 > 0:11:46"I think I've forgotten, mercifully,
0:11:46 > 0:11:48"an awful lot more than I remember,
0:11:48 > 0:11:52"but you won't be allowed to go ahead with this."
0:11:52 > 0:11:53"Oh, yes, we will."
0:11:53 > 0:11:56I said, "You will not be allowed to go ahead with this,
0:11:56 > 0:11:58"it won't happen."
0:12:00 > 0:12:02When we left Karin's house,
0:12:02 > 0:12:04the first thing we said was,
0:12:04 > 0:12:05"What did you think?"
0:12:05 > 0:12:09And we all thought, yes, she was telling us the truth.
0:12:09 > 0:12:13And it wasn't long after that we were driving to the railway station
0:12:13 > 0:12:16and we put the radio on and suddenly it was announced
0:12:16 > 0:12:19there were to be tribute programmes to Jimmy Savile
0:12:19 > 0:12:20for the Christmas schedules.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23The timing was amazing and we all started giggling,
0:12:23 > 0:12:25like, nervously,
0:12:25 > 0:12:27"Oh, goodness, they're going to have to pull
0:12:27 > 0:12:29"those tribute programmes."
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Can we fix it? Yes, we can.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34# Get together with your own heroes
0:12:34 > 0:12:36# Jim'll fix it. #
0:12:37 > 0:12:42Weeks later, the BBC ran two Christmas tributes to Savile.
0:12:42 > 0:12:46Karin's interview was shelved when the boss of Newsnight
0:12:46 > 0:12:50took the editorial decision to drop the investigation.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53For a long time, I didn't believe they could possibly pull it.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55Apart from anything else,
0:12:55 > 0:12:59it was obvious that it would come out anyhow
0:12:59 > 0:13:00and that when it did come out,
0:13:00 > 0:13:03the story then would not be Jimmy Savile was a paedophile,
0:13:03 > 0:13:07it would be, BBC covered up Jimmy Savile being a paedophile.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14With the Newsnight investigation dropped,
0:13:14 > 0:13:17a former detective who worked on the piece,
0:13:17 > 0:13:18Mark Williams-Thomas,
0:13:18 > 0:13:20took the story to ITV
0:13:20 > 0:13:23and began working on his own documentary.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39We heard that ITV had this documentary
0:13:39 > 0:13:45that was going to make claims about Jimmy Savile,
0:13:45 > 0:13:48and they had spoken to some of the women
0:13:48 > 0:13:50who were making claims about him.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54Straightaway, we knew that this was going to be big.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58And in the Sunday papers, it got a lot of coverage.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02Somebody in the newsroom came over and said,
0:14:02 > 0:14:05"We've had an e-mail from a woman
0:14:05 > 0:14:10"who wants to speak to a journalist about Jimmy Savile."
0:14:13 > 0:14:16That woman was Dee Coles.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19She became the first person to appear on television
0:14:19 > 0:14:22accusing Savile of being a paedophile.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25Dee, can tell me what happened to you with Jimmy Savile?
0:14:25 > 0:14:28It was just before I was 15, so I was 14,
0:14:28 > 0:14:31on holiday with my mum in Jersey.
0:14:31 > 0:14:32And the hotel we were staying in,
0:14:32 > 0:14:36they had a camper van, quite a large camper van...
0:14:36 > 0:14:38I was glad I'd spoken out.
0:14:38 > 0:14:42I was really not glad that I'd taken the beta-blockers.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44I couldn't have done it without,
0:14:44 > 0:14:46but I felt, when I looked at it,
0:14:46 > 0:14:50I felt I was just so detached from it,
0:14:50 > 0:14:51"it" being...
0:14:52 > 0:14:56Talking... "It" being the sexual assault,
0:14:56 > 0:14:58that I was all quite sort of...
0:15:00 > 0:15:01..matter of fact.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05And it wasn't matter of fact at all, it really wasn't.
0:15:05 > 0:15:10And that's why I was determined not to take beta-blockers today.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15Because it is messy and I am a bit of a mess about it.
0:15:16 > 0:15:18That's how it is.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37My mum and I were dead close.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40We would do lots of silly things together.
0:15:40 > 0:15:43She was, like, 40 when she had me
0:15:43 > 0:15:46and she really, really wanted the best for me,
0:15:46 > 0:15:49so she sent me to private school.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53She'd given up a lot for me to be able to do that.
0:15:53 > 0:15:54The path was set then,
0:15:54 > 0:15:57that I was going to go on to college, go to uni.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01I was definitely going to be a teacher,
0:16:01 > 0:16:03done really well in my exams.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06And she said, "You and I are going away for a week.
0:16:06 > 0:16:07"Where do you want to go?"
0:16:12 > 0:16:16I suppose it's quite indicative of the fact that it was the '70s,
0:16:16 > 0:16:19like, Jersey was abroad, and exciting.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22Yeah, and I chose the hotel.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24God.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30We were at our table, my mum and I.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34People had dressed for dinner, definitely, at this hotel,
0:16:34 > 0:16:38and he just wandered in, in, like, gold shorts and a vest,
0:16:38 > 0:16:41and so immediately you look.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44And the cigar.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48He sort of worked the room, circulated and speaking to everyone,
0:16:48 > 0:16:50and he came to our table.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53I thought it was exciting.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56My mum thought it was incredibly exciting.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59She really did get, you know...
0:17:00 > 0:17:02She was really star-struck.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08It was the next day that the assault happened, the next morning.
0:17:10 > 0:17:12There was one other girl about my age,
0:17:12 > 0:17:15staying with her mum and dad and brother,
0:17:15 > 0:17:17so we sort of hooked up.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21It had a back door through the car park
0:17:21 > 0:17:23to take you to the beach
0:17:23 > 0:17:26and that's where Savile was staying,
0:17:26 > 0:17:28in his motorhome in the car park,
0:17:28 > 0:17:30so he wasn't actually staying in the hotel.
0:17:32 > 0:17:34He came out and...
0:17:38 > 0:17:43..got this girl to take some photos of me and him.
0:17:46 > 0:17:51The first two he's really pulling me into him,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54sort of thrusting his leg between my legs. And it's...
0:17:54 > 0:17:58I can tell when I look at the expression on my face I'm not...
0:17:59 > 0:18:01I'm not comfortable with it.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04And then the third one I do remember.
0:18:04 > 0:18:09Cos he took his vest off and got me to stand behind him,
0:18:09 > 0:18:10so I was more relaxed in that one
0:18:10 > 0:18:12because he wasn't, like, pushing into me.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17And then we got invited in to see the van.
0:18:17 > 0:18:19And...
0:18:21 > 0:18:26It was as different, as night is from day.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28Just totally, totally changed.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33Locked the door and pulled me towards him.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40You know, I think sometimes when people read about abuse,
0:18:40 > 0:18:47they just think, oh, it's the same as adults having sex,
0:18:47 > 0:18:50but it's...with a minor.
0:18:52 > 0:18:53And it really isn't.
0:18:56 > 0:18:57It really wasn't.
0:19:03 > 0:19:06I didn't tell my mum what had happened.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09But I couldn't stand the fact
0:19:09 > 0:19:12that she was still sort of chatting with Savile,
0:19:12 > 0:19:14he was still in the hotel
0:19:14 > 0:19:16and she was still talking to him,
0:19:16 > 0:19:19and I thought, "You must know there's something wrong with me,
0:19:19 > 0:19:21"you must see that."
0:19:21 > 0:19:23And...
0:19:26 > 0:19:28I don't know.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30I just really hated her in that moment.
0:19:32 > 0:19:34It's her job to take care of me
0:19:34 > 0:19:37and that hadn't happened.
0:19:39 > 0:19:43I couldn't tell her. Oh, God, I couldn't tell her.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45And, you know, it's only because she's dead
0:19:45 > 0:19:49that I was able to come forward when I did,
0:19:49 > 0:19:51speak out when I did.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54I wouldn't want...
0:19:54 > 0:19:57I wouldn't want her to have that image.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05SHE WEEPS
0:20:05 > 0:20:07It's almost like...
0:20:09 > 0:20:11Oh, God, this is dramatic but...
0:20:13 > 0:20:18It's almost like, it broke my heart, so why should I break hers with it?
0:20:21 > 0:20:25I sort of think once was... One heart was enough.
0:20:28 > 0:20:34Given that you had such a horrendous experience in a caravan by the sea,
0:20:34 > 0:20:36does it ever strike you as odd
0:20:36 > 0:20:39that you have now chosen to live in a caravan by the sea?
0:20:39 > 0:20:42I never thought of that, that's really funny!
0:20:42 > 0:20:45Erm, no. Cos this is total freedom.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50It's really friendly. And I feel really safe.
0:20:51 > 0:20:56I've always known since I moved here, this is it,
0:20:56 > 0:20:58nothing else is going to happen.
0:21:07 > 0:21:13Dee's interview with ITV News was broadcast on 2nd October 2012.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19Her claims, and further newspaper allegations
0:21:19 > 0:21:22triggered an immediate public response.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27- RADIO PRESENTER: - 'Hazel in Frome in Somerset says,
0:21:27 > 0:21:30'"I'm disgusted that everyone is trying to shoot Jimmy Savile down.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32'"Jimmy spent his whole life helping other people.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34'"He did so much good work. Leave him alone."'
0:21:34 > 0:21:38'All it's doing is maligning a man who over so many years
0:21:38 > 0:21:41'had raised well over £40 million for charity.'
0:21:41 > 0:21:45'I'm just surprised that they waited so long to say it.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48'If this is true why didn't they report it to someone beforehand?'
0:21:48 > 0:21:50And then it just grew and grew.
0:21:53 > 0:21:56And with that growing, I guess lots of things come up,
0:21:56 > 0:21:59with people having opinions,
0:21:59 > 0:22:00and not everyone being...
0:22:02 > 0:22:04..understanding.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07'One more caller. Jinky is in Burton upon Trent, and says,
0:22:07 > 0:22:10'"Young girls have always thrown themselves at DJs and pop stars."'
0:22:10 > 0:22:13'These people absolutely disgust me.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16'They need to really get their facts right.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18'All this is, is sensationalising...'
0:22:18 > 0:22:22I was absolutely raging, because all I was seeing
0:22:22 > 0:22:27in the press at the time was "star-stuck teenagers",
0:22:27 > 0:22:30and that totally, it got to me.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32I had this image...
0:22:34 > 0:22:36..that I would be blamed,
0:22:36 > 0:22:40that somehow what happened to me wasn't real,
0:22:40 > 0:22:42I was making it all up,
0:22:42 > 0:22:46I don't know why I thought that, but I was making it all up,
0:22:46 > 0:22:48it wasn't real, and...
0:22:49 > 0:22:52..I wouldn't be believed at all.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08It's the second day of Katy's trial.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16Her alleged abuser is now in his 40s.
0:23:18 > 0:23:22Katy and a friend claim that he sexually abused them
0:23:22 > 0:23:25when they were 9, and he was 19.
0:23:29 > 0:23:33Today, Katy's father is being called as a witness
0:23:33 > 0:23:35to tell the jury what he saw.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40It was a summer evening,
0:23:40 > 0:23:43I would say around about 8:00 to 8:30 time,
0:23:43 > 0:23:47a really hot summer's night.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50I went out to look for Katy, shouting her,
0:23:50 > 0:23:54she'd not heard me, so I walked to one end,
0:23:54 > 0:23:57walked up part of the way, then came back, and thought
0:23:57 > 0:24:01they might be down at the pond, they were all making dens.
0:24:01 > 0:24:03The kids have been making dens.
0:24:05 > 0:24:11And I saw Katy and her friend from the village, in the den,
0:24:11 > 0:24:16and on the outside of the den but looking into it,
0:24:16 > 0:24:21there was another guy there as well.
0:24:21 > 0:24:23But I never thought anything at the time
0:24:23 > 0:24:27because I didn't have any reason to think anything.
0:24:27 > 0:24:32So I just shouted, "Kate, it's time to come in." "OK."
0:24:32 > 0:24:34And then I set off walking back.
0:24:38 > 0:24:40There was me,
0:24:40 > 0:24:42and another girl,
0:24:42 > 0:24:46erm, and...him.
0:24:51 > 0:24:58He must have known that we had a den...
0:24:59 > 0:25:04..and he said, "I've got some sweets. Shall we all go up there?"
0:25:07 > 0:25:11I can hear him, I can hear his voice.
0:25:11 > 0:25:13He kept saying, "Will...
0:25:15 > 0:25:18"..will you let me touch your fanny?"
0:25:18 > 0:25:21And I hate that word to this day. I absolutely hate it.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27And then he...
0:25:27 > 0:25:30He started hurting me.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37We could always talk to each other
0:25:37 > 0:25:42and I can't understand, even now, why it took her until she were 15
0:25:42 > 0:25:43to be able to tell me.
0:25:46 > 0:25:48If I'd have known, that...
0:25:49 > 0:25:52It would have been a really different situation.
0:25:52 > 0:25:55There's no way I'd have walked away from that.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58I'd have dragged him by the scruff of his neck
0:25:58 > 0:26:00back to our house, and got the police,
0:26:00 > 0:26:03after I'd give him a good kicking,
0:26:03 > 0:26:08but I didn't get a chance of that cos I didn't know at the time.
0:26:08 > 0:26:12But even now I'm so mad inside me,
0:26:12 > 0:26:16that I feel as though I've failed me daughter.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19I think to myself, "You should have known.
0:26:21 > 0:26:25"You should have known, you should have done something." But I didn't.
0:26:25 > 0:26:29And she said, "It weren't your fault, Dad, and don't..."
0:26:30 > 0:26:33- HE SOBS - Oh, God.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40"Don't blame yourself."
0:26:40 > 0:26:43But, God, saying it...
0:26:43 > 0:26:45But I still do.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49I says, "Right, I'll have a word with your mum."
0:26:49 > 0:26:51"No, I don't want you to tell my mum.
0:26:51 > 0:26:54"She'll not be able to take this."
0:26:56 > 0:27:00So I had to bottle that up inside me
0:27:00 > 0:27:04for like 15, 16 years, I've had that inside me.
0:27:04 > 0:27:08What's this like for you, Pat, to hear?
0:27:08 > 0:27:11Quite upsetting actually.
0:27:12 > 0:27:15Cos you've not really spoke to me, have you?
0:27:16 > 0:27:19Even now I can't because...
0:27:19 > 0:27:23I've tried to talk to you, didn't I?
0:27:23 > 0:27:25After the police.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28But he wouldn't speak, he would just walk out.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30He wouldn't...
0:27:30 > 0:27:33I've got a lot of anger inside me.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35He's been angry with me.
0:27:35 > 0:27:39A lot of anger's been taken out on me.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41It probably has, yeah.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45Yeah, I mean, all these families
0:27:45 > 0:27:48who've had to go through what we've been through.
0:27:48 > 0:27:52People on the outside, looking in,
0:27:52 > 0:27:56they might think they understand it.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58But they don't.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01They don't know.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08Let's go then.
0:28:08 > 0:28:13In total, the accused man faces ten charges.
0:28:13 > 0:28:17Katy and her friend corroborate one another on five.
0:28:17 > 0:28:21The others will be Katy's word against his.
0:28:31 > 0:28:36The day after Dee Coles appeared on the news,
0:28:36 > 0:28:41ITV ran its documentary, The Other Side Of Jimmy Savile.
0:28:44 > 0:28:48So you were 16, you were in the back of his caravan, he was touching you.
0:28:48 > 0:28:50There comes a point where you say to him,
0:28:50 > 0:28:53"You're not going the whole way."
0:28:53 > 0:28:55What was his response to that?
0:28:55 > 0:28:58The documentary featured the testimony of five women
0:28:58 > 0:29:02detailing their sexual abuse at the hands of Jimmy Savile.
0:29:02 > 0:29:06Before I knew what had happened, he'd stuck his tongue into my mouth,
0:29:06 > 0:29:10it didn't seem to bother him that people could have seen...
0:29:10 > 0:29:12Looking back now, as an adult, I realise he'd been grooming me
0:29:12 > 0:29:14by calling me at home...
0:29:14 > 0:29:19He was trying to take advantage of a 14-year-old child...
0:29:20 > 0:29:22PHONE RINGS
0:29:22 > 0:29:26- RADIO:- 'I watched the documentary and I cried all the way through it,
0:29:26 > 0:29:31'because I was physically and sexually abused as a child.'
0:29:31 > 0:29:34PHONE RINGS
0:29:34 > 0:29:37As the documentary was going out,
0:29:37 > 0:29:39helplines were deluged with calls,
0:29:39 > 0:29:45some revealing details of abuse kept secret for decades.
0:29:45 > 0:29:48Do you want to tell me what's prompted your call,
0:29:48 > 0:29:50is it something that's happened to you as a child
0:29:50 > 0:29:51that you want to talk about?
0:29:51 > 0:29:54Yeah, if it's something you've never spoken about,
0:29:54 > 0:29:57then of course, it's going to feel a bit odd for you.
0:29:57 > 0:30:00Our calls doubled and then tripled,
0:30:00 > 0:30:02and for the first time,
0:30:02 > 0:30:05at the end of the month of October we had 5,000 contacts.
0:30:05 > 0:30:08I'm sorry I can't go into it in greater depth today
0:30:08 > 0:30:11but we do have to limit our call times.
0:30:11 > 0:30:14Cos we've got a lot of calls coming in.
0:30:14 > 0:30:16Lots of people calling through were really angry.
0:30:16 > 0:30:19They wanted to defy the cynics out there.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22They wanted to show them that this was true.
0:30:22 > 0:30:24They wanted their story to be heard.
0:30:24 > 0:30:28It's all right, it's all right. OK...
0:30:28 > 0:30:31This documentary going out, had for them, just ripped something open.
0:30:31 > 0:30:35Yeah, we're getting lots of phone calls from people like you
0:30:35 > 0:30:39who haven't spoken to anyone about it before...
0:30:39 > 0:30:41It started to bring those triggers and those memories back up,
0:30:41 > 0:30:42of their own abuse.
0:30:49 > 0:30:55When you're sat in your front room, and his face is on the telly a lot,
0:30:55 > 0:30:57and in the papers a lot,
0:30:57 > 0:30:58you have got nowhere to hide.
0:30:58 > 0:31:05You can't ever tuck stuff away, then, because it's real.
0:31:05 > 0:31:07It's there. It's there.
0:31:11 > 0:31:16CHORAL SINGING
0:31:18 > 0:31:23Stoke Mandeville Hospital's got a chapel
0:31:23 > 0:31:25that we used to attend every Saturday evening.
0:31:25 > 0:31:28The times when Savile came, there used to be a little room
0:31:28 > 0:31:32and it was my job to go in there, get the collection plate.
0:31:32 > 0:31:36When I went in to them rooms, he would start touching,
0:31:36 > 0:31:39pushing his fingers inside me,
0:31:39 > 0:31:43doing whatever he wanted to do in that little five-minute space.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48Why do you think he singled you out?
0:31:48 > 0:31:53Because he knew, he knew what I was.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56He knew that I was...
0:31:56 > 0:32:01He knew I'd been abused for years.
0:32:01 > 0:32:05You know, we have our own little gang.
0:32:05 > 0:32:07Your eyes go down to the floor,
0:32:07 > 0:32:09your body language of how you hold yourself,
0:32:09 > 0:32:11you're quite tense and you...
0:32:11 > 0:32:13They know that.
0:32:13 > 0:32:19It's there, for people who, that's what they get off on, They know.
0:32:19 > 0:32:21They know who you are.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24They know you've been primed and you've been touched,
0:32:24 > 0:32:27because straightaway, we know who they are.
0:32:27 > 0:32:31I knew who he was, I knew what he was.
0:32:33 > 0:32:38To me, it's what most people of importance did then.
0:32:43 > 0:32:46My grandfather was a policeman, in Met Police,
0:32:46 > 0:32:52and a very powerful, big person.
0:32:56 > 0:33:03Cos my abuse started very young, a toddler, I was very inward.
0:33:03 > 0:33:05So I didn't talk a lot.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08I was a very good, quiet child, so therefore, nobody noticed me.
0:33:10 > 0:33:13I was just a good little kid.
0:33:16 > 0:33:18My grandad was my saviour.
0:33:18 > 0:33:22He was my abuser and he was my saviour.
0:33:22 > 0:33:23That gets really confusing,
0:33:23 > 0:33:28because you've got somebody who's coming to fight your corner,
0:33:28 > 0:33:30all the time.
0:33:30 > 0:33:32But that same person that's fighting your corner
0:33:32 > 0:33:35is also doing what they want to do to you.
0:33:35 > 0:33:39So that causes a mess.
0:33:42 > 0:33:46My communion pictures, I must have been seven.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48And I hated communion,
0:33:48 > 0:33:52cos my granddad told me that, you see, I was marrying God.
0:33:52 > 0:33:55So when you marry God, you have to have sex.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58So I knew on my confirmation and my holy communion
0:33:58 > 0:34:00that he would rape me afterwards.
0:34:01 > 0:34:05When I went to the door of the church,
0:34:05 > 0:34:07I really didn't want to go in.
0:34:08 > 0:34:10I kicked up such a fuss.
0:34:10 > 0:34:14And my mum was, you know, she was so mad.
0:34:14 > 0:34:17Cos of course, everybody else was happily going in there,
0:34:17 > 0:34:19and all the parents were excited,
0:34:19 > 0:34:21and all the kids were excited.
0:34:21 > 0:34:24Where I just... Oh, I was so mortified.
0:34:24 > 0:34:26And I look at the picture of that little girl,
0:34:26 > 0:34:29she looks so blatantly sad.
0:34:29 > 0:34:32She looks so sad.
0:34:32 > 0:34:34What was I?
0:34:34 > 0:34:38I was just a little kid, whose life just got took.
0:34:38 > 0:34:41I felt like everything had let me down,
0:34:41 > 0:34:44everybody had let me down,
0:34:44 > 0:34:46any adult had let me down.
0:34:47 > 0:34:50And I was just on such a massive self-destruct
0:34:50 > 0:34:53that I didn't care about anybody.
0:34:56 > 0:35:01I was drunk, I slept with somebody, not a boyfriend.
0:35:01 > 0:35:05And I went to our little chemist, and I took a pregnancy test there,
0:35:05 > 0:35:07and it said I was pregnant.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10I have never been so happy in my entire life,
0:35:10 > 0:35:12cos I had my little baby.
0:35:12 > 0:35:17I would look after them and keep them safe.
0:35:17 > 0:35:21I knew that I would love my own baby,
0:35:21 > 0:35:25I'd feel, to feel inside, cos I could...
0:35:25 > 0:35:31This baby's done nothing to nobody, not hurt anybody,
0:35:31 > 0:35:36not let nobody down, will love me regardless of, you know,
0:35:36 > 0:35:41that I'm dirty, that I'm used, that nobody really loves me.
0:35:41 > 0:35:45This baby will love me and I will love this baby.
0:35:45 > 0:35:47And from that second I must have been...
0:35:47 > 0:35:50Because I had Gemma a couple of months after my 16th birthday,
0:35:50 > 0:35:54from that second on, I...wanted life.
0:35:54 > 0:35:57I wanted life with every bit of me.
0:35:57 > 0:36:01INDISTINCT CONVERSATION
0:36:20 > 0:36:23Not a minute goes past that I don't...
0:36:23 > 0:36:26I'm like, "Cheers, girl."
0:36:26 > 0:36:29You know. She done the job.
0:36:34 > 0:36:38I only loved my daughter then.
0:36:38 > 0:36:42I didn't expect ever to love a man, not in my whole life.
0:36:48 > 0:36:51Yeah, I definitely had a game plan.
0:36:51 > 0:36:53And what was that?
0:36:53 > 0:36:55Just to give Gemma a good dad,
0:36:55 > 0:37:00and a steady, safe environment.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05I think that's what done it in the end.
0:37:05 > 0:37:08I didn't feel like he asked for anything from me.
0:37:08 > 0:37:10Is that right, Jim?
0:37:10 > 0:37:12Yeah.
0:37:13 > 0:37:17I know what it's done, do you know what I mean?
0:37:17 > 0:37:18I just know what it's done.
0:37:18 > 0:37:21So I don't need to know the ins and outs of it all.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24I don't think I want to know the ins and outs of it all,
0:37:24 > 0:37:26if I'm totally honest.
0:37:26 > 0:37:28But you've never had a conversation about that?
0:37:30 > 0:37:33I don't want to have that in my head.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35Do know what I mean? I don't want that.
0:37:35 > 0:37:38And I know you've got it in your head, but I don't want it in mine.
0:37:38 > 0:37:43So I think I've got the best end of the deal here.
0:37:45 > 0:37:47- SHE SLAPS HIM LIGHTLY - Don't be soapy, come on.
0:37:47 > 0:37:49I know, I know, but it's true.
0:37:49 > 0:37:53I don't want that in my head. I can't take that in my head.
0:38:10 > 0:38:13Nothing prepared us for what was unleashed
0:38:13 > 0:38:15after the story broke.
0:38:16 > 0:38:21That first weekend, we had about 35 victims come forward.
0:38:21 > 0:38:25The scale of this was going to outstrip our policing structures.
0:38:27 > 0:38:31The Savile revelations led the Metropolitan Police
0:38:31 > 0:38:34to launch a major enquiry - Operation Yewtree.
0:38:34 > 0:38:40Its commander, Peter Spindler, was thrust into the spotlight.
0:38:40 > 0:38:45It's quite clear that he has perpetrated four decades of abuse.
0:38:45 > 0:38:49And it's vital that those that have been victims of that
0:38:49 > 0:38:51actually get the recognition,
0:38:51 > 0:38:54acknowledgment, and support that they deserve.
0:38:54 > 0:38:59I don't think we could have done what we did with a live suspect.
0:38:59 > 0:39:01We would have kept very quiet,
0:39:01 > 0:39:03we would have come up with press lines
0:39:03 > 0:39:06that were, "this is an ongoing criminal investigation
0:39:06 > 0:39:08"and we're not prepared to discuss."
0:39:08 > 0:39:10The difference with Savile...
0:39:10 > 0:39:13was I was prepared to take the risk
0:39:13 > 0:39:16that, OK, what's going to happen - are family members going to sue me?
0:39:16 > 0:39:18I don't think you can defame a dead person.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21Now, I wasn't getting legal advice as we were doing this.
0:39:21 > 0:39:25And you have no doubts now about Jimmy Savile?
0:39:26 > 0:39:31At this stage, it's quite clear from what women are telling us
0:39:31 > 0:39:35that Savile was a predatory sex offender.
0:39:35 > 0:39:36As I stepped away from the camera,
0:39:36 > 0:39:39my press officer said to me, whispers in my ear,
0:39:39 > 0:39:41"Do you realise what you've just said?
0:39:41 > 0:39:44"You've just said Savile's a predatory sex offender."
0:39:44 > 0:39:45I said, "Yeah, I'm fine with that."
0:39:47 > 0:39:50And, of course, it is the lead news story,
0:39:50 > 0:39:52and on the front covers of the next day.
0:39:52 > 0:39:54- NEWSREADER: - 'Scotland Yard has said
0:39:54 > 0:39:57'that Jimmy Savile was a predatory sex offender who carried out...
0:39:57 > 0:40:00'..fear that Savile was a predatory sex offender
0:40:00 > 0:40:03'who could have abused up to 30 victims over 40 years.'
0:40:04 > 0:40:07Now THAT was a turning point for the enquiry,
0:40:07 > 0:40:13because the most important thing for victims is about being believed.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16And the fact that we were seen to be taking it seriously,
0:40:16 > 0:40:19and someone senior is standing in front of a camera
0:40:19 > 0:40:23saying, essentially, "I believe you, tell us about what's happened",
0:40:23 > 0:40:24that just unleashed
0:40:24 > 0:40:28what was ultimately an exponential rise in reporting.
0:40:28 > 0:40:31Tonight at Ten, police are now pursuing
0:40:31 > 0:40:35more than 100 lines of enquiry about Jimmy Savile.
0:40:36 > 0:40:39In the days following the Met's announcement,
0:40:39 > 0:40:41scores more victims came forward.
0:40:43 > 0:40:45Some went directly to the press.
0:40:47 > 0:40:50Among them, one of Savile's youngest victims,
0:40:50 > 0:40:52abused as a nine-year-old boy.
0:40:54 > 0:40:59I wasn't to blame, so I thought that I'd tell the press.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04Sharon didn't want me to do it, but I just went out,
0:41:04 > 0:41:07phoned the press, made an appointment
0:41:07 > 0:41:09and then we just done it.
0:41:09 > 0:41:11Did you know that Kevin was going to call the Sun?
0:41:11 > 0:41:13No idea. If I'd known then,
0:41:13 > 0:41:15I would never ever, ever have let him done it.
0:41:15 > 0:41:17Never ever in a million years.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21But it's easier for me to speak to strangers.
0:41:21 > 0:41:23I tell them everything.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26But none of my close family, couldn't do it,
0:41:26 > 0:41:29couldn't tell Sharon it, couldn't tell my brother it.
0:41:29 > 0:41:31How can...? You know?
0:41:31 > 0:41:36- Do you know what happened to Kevin? - Not completely, no.
0:41:36 > 0:41:39Just bits and pieces, really, isn't it?
0:41:39 > 0:41:43I've not read anything, I've not really heard anything as such,
0:41:43 > 0:41:45it's just what I've sort of picked up,
0:41:45 > 0:41:48overhearing your conversations, isn't it?
0:41:48 > 0:41:51- Hiding in other rooms, and whatever. - Really?- Yeah.
0:41:51 > 0:41:53It sounds like you don't want to know.
0:41:53 > 0:41:55I don't need to know unless Kevin wants me to know.
0:41:55 > 0:41:58I don't feel the need that I have to know.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01Really, I wish it had never happened,
0:42:01 > 0:42:02so by not knowing everything,
0:42:02 > 0:42:05I suppose in my mind, it makes it easier for me to deal with.
0:42:22 > 0:42:25The cub leader wrote a letter with his idea
0:42:25 > 0:42:29which was the milk float race around Brands Hatch.
0:42:30 > 0:42:32ENGINES REV
0:42:36 > 0:42:37I got picked out.
0:42:37 > 0:42:41I was pretending to eat out of this horse bag with oats in it,
0:42:41 > 0:42:43but I actually ate them.
0:42:43 > 0:42:44It was just great fun.
0:42:46 > 0:42:49Even now, if I'm thinking about that day,
0:42:49 > 0:42:52it was just, you know, exciting, it was really, really good.
0:42:52 > 0:42:55And that was part of my childhood.
0:43:02 > 0:43:06We just assumed that the eight of us would get our own badge,
0:43:06 > 0:43:09which was iconic in itself.
0:43:09 > 0:43:12Then we found out we was just going to get one badge
0:43:12 > 0:43:15but it was going to have a big ribbon,
0:43:15 > 0:43:18and they was going to put it around the whole group.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20Then we was, you know, a bit disappointed.
0:43:24 > 0:43:26Savile approached me,
0:43:26 > 0:43:31and asked me if I wanted my own badge for myself.
0:43:31 > 0:43:33Yeah, just jumped at it.
0:43:33 > 0:43:39I was led off the stage, through some big double doors,
0:43:39 > 0:43:43and then into a little room.
0:43:43 > 0:43:48I was fine, just thought I was getting my badge.
0:43:48 > 0:43:54And he sat me down and then he just unbuttoned my shorts.
0:43:56 > 0:43:58There was a knock at the door.
0:43:59 > 0:44:03A man walked in to the room, came over,
0:44:03 > 0:44:08watched for literally seconds, and then took part.
0:44:10 > 0:44:13He was like an animal.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15Savile actually stopped him.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19Then he issued a warning to me, and a threat.
0:44:19 > 0:44:21What did he say?
0:44:21 > 0:44:25Um... He said to me, "Don't you dare tell anyone.
0:44:25 > 0:44:28"No-one will believe you.
0:44:28 > 0:44:33"I'm...", and he called himself "King Jimmy,"
0:44:33 > 0:44:35and he said, "We know where you live."
0:44:38 > 0:44:41- HE SIGHS HEAVILY - I just had to hide it.
0:44:45 > 0:44:49How can someone keep such a big secret for so long?
0:44:49 > 0:44:53And sort of live your life normally, what you think is normal,
0:44:53 > 0:44:54was that normal?
0:44:54 > 0:44:56It just makes everything...
0:44:56 > 0:44:58You question everything, don't it, really?
0:44:59 > 0:45:02You know, you've got the marriage, you've got the friendship,
0:45:02 > 0:45:05you've got the closeness, you've got it all then all of a sudden
0:45:05 > 0:45:07there's this great big "Woah"... that you didn't know about.
0:45:07 > 0:45:09And it makes everything like,
0:45:09 > 0:45:11"If he can keep that from me, what else has he kept from me?"
0:45:11 > 0:45:14It does make you self-doubt, doesn't it, really?
0:45:14 > 0:45:17I suppose, cos, obviously, it's a big secret to take, to carry around.
0:45:17 > 0:45:21And where are you both at with that now?
0:45:23 > 0:45:25Plodding along.
0:45:25 > 0:45:29Yeah, that's probably right, plodding along.
0:45:29 > 0:45:30For better, for worse.
0:45:30 > 0:45:34For richer, for poorer.
0:45:34 > 0:45:36Yeah.
0:45:36 > 0:45:38That's it.
0:45:47 > 0:45:51- ESTHER RANTZEN:- 'Why did Savile never have to face these allegations
0:45:51 > 0:45:54'and pay for his crimes during his lifetime?'
0:45:54 > 0:45:57- NICK CLEGG: - 'I just cannot understand
0:45:57 > 0:46:01'how this remained hidden for so long.'
0:46:01 > 0:46:05With so many victims coming forward since Savile had died,
0:46:05 > 0:46:09the question now was how he'd escaped justice when he was alive.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14One organisation had the answer.
0:46:17 > 0:46:20I said, "Have we ever had a Jimmy Savile allegation file
0:46:20 > 0:46:23"on our desk? If so, when and where?"
0:46:23 > 0:46:27"And I want to have those looked at again."
0:46:27 > 0:46:31And initially there was a trawl and a search,
0:46:31 > 0:46:36and a number of files were found.
0:46:36 > 0:46:41And I asked my principal legal advisor, then Alison Levitt QC,
0:46:41 > 0:46:44for those decisions to be looked at.
0:46:45 > 0:46:47There were four allegations.
0:46:47 > 0:46:51They were... They all had the hallmarks
0:46:51 > 0:46:53of credibility about them.
0:46:53 > 0:46:57When you heard what the complainants were saying, there was nothing
0:46:57 > 0:47:00about it that you thought, "Well, that doesn't sound right."
0:47:00 > 0:47:01So why were the complainants saying
0:47:01 > 0:47:04that they didn't want to go ahead with them?
0:47:05 > 0:47:09Four women had separately reported Savile to the police
0:47:09 > 0:47:10while he was alive.
0:47:13 > 0:47:17Savile was interviewed, but denied everything.
0:47:25 > 0:47:30The first woman to make an allegation was known as Miss C.
0:47:30 > 0:47:31She was interviewed by detectives.
0:47:33 > 0:47:35What they said to her was,
0:47:35 > 0:47:38"If you want, if you really want this pursued,
0:47:38 > 0:47:40"we will do so, and we believe you,
0:47:40 > 0:47:43"and we think that you're telling the truth.
0:47:43 > 0:47:47"But we do need to warn you about what is likely to happen,
0:47:47 > 0:47:53"because Jimmy Savile is a very rich, powerful and famous man.
0:47:53 > 0:47:55"Chances are nobody will believe you.
0:47:55 > 0:47:57"He will have the best lawyers,
0:47:57 > 0:48:00"it will all take place at a big court in London,
0:48:00 > 0:48:04"you will be cross-examined, and you will be made to look like a liar,
0:48:04 > 0:48:08"and your name will be plastered all over the newspapers."
0:48:14 > 0:48:18The worst moment of it was when she said to the officers,
0:48:18 > 0:48:22"If it's just about me, I don't want to take this any further."
0:48:22 > 0:48:25And I knew this wasn't just about her,
0:48:25 > 0:48:28and I could see she hadn't been told that.
0:48:28 > 0:48:31And so this immediately raised the question of,
0:48:31 > 0:48:33if she had been told,
0:48:33 > 0:48:36would she have seen it differently?
0:48:36 > 0:48:40In fact, I went to see four of the victims,
0:48:40 > 0:48:42and each of them volunteered to me,
0:48:42 > 0:48:44"If I'd known there were others,
0:48:44 > 0:48:46"I would have been prepared to come forward."
0:48:46 > 0:48:50- How did you feel about that? - Really sad, sad for them.
0:48:51 > 0:48:56Alison Levitt's report into the handling of the Savile allegations
0:48:56 > 0:48:59led to an overhaul of how the CPS and the police
0:48:59 > 0:49:02dealt with cases of child sexual abuse.
0:49:02 > 0:49:07What was obvious to me was that these were not isolated examples,
0:49:07 > 0:49:12these were widespread difficulties and problems
0:49:12 > 0:49:15in the functioning of our criminal justice system
0:49:15 > 0:49:16and the approach that we'd taken.
0:49:18 > 0:49:22We owed it to those whose cases may not have proceeded,
0:49:22 > 0:49:24to look again at their cases.
0:49:24 > 0:49:27And we set up a victims' right to review scheme,
0:49:27 > 0:49:31where any victim whose case does not proceed
0:49:31 > 0:49:33can say to the prosecuting team,
0:49:33 > 0:49:35"I want you to look again."
0:49:35 > 0:49:38And the significance of that scheme
0:49:38 > 0:49:40is the victim doesn't have to say
0:49:40 > 0:49:43why they think the decision is wrong,
0:49:43 > 0:49:45they don't need a lawyer.
0:49:45 > 0:49:47All they have to say is, "I'm unhappy with the decision,
0:49:47 > 0:49:49"will you look at it again?"
0:49:57 > 0:50:01- Right, what shall I do?- Erm...- I kinda want to do something normal.
0:50:01 > 0:50:03I could wash that...
0:50:03 > 0:50:04Katy was one of the first people
0:50:04 > 0:50:07to benefit from that right to review.
0:50:08 > 0:50:12The CPS originally turned down her case, but changed its mind
0:50:12 > 0:50:15after she requested they look at it again.
0:50:15 > 0:50:17Oh, it's Joseph!
0:50:17 > 0:50:20Because I was getting stuff for court, I just randomly
0:50:20 > 0:50:23bought myself a shirt, which I quite like.
0:50:23 > 0:50:25- Are you OK?- Oh, yeah.
0:50:25 > 0:50:27Katy's husband, Joe,
0:50:27 > 0:50:31will be the next person to be cross-examined in the trial.
0:50:31 > 0:50:33With no forensic evidence,
0:50:33 > 0:50:36Joe's account of the effect the alleged abuse
0:50:36 > 0:50:39has had on their relationship will be key.
0:50:39 > 0:50:42When we got together, we were charging around the countryside,
0:50:42 > 0:50:46- walking, climbing, camping...- Just spending ridiculous amounts of...
0:50:46 > 0:50:49Spending awesome time and money together, it were awesome.
0:50:49 > 0:50:51And then it was a case of, well,
0:50:51 > 0:50:54Katy felt she needed to say this
0:50:54 > 0:50:57before we embarked on a serious relationship.
0:50:57 > 0:50:59So that's when you told me.
0:50:59 > 0:51:02Yeah, that's when I first told you.
0:51:02 > 0:51:04What did she tell you, Joe?
0:51:06 > 0:51:09She told me she'd been abused,
0:51:09 > 0:51:12and it was just like, "OK, what next?"
0:51:12 > 0:51:15It didn't really mean anything.
0:51:15 > 0:51:19You just think, "Oh, that's awful, I'm sorry about that, carry on."
0:51:19 > 0:51:25I didn't imagine what it would mean, or what it meant.
0:51:27 > 0:51:29When did you first recognise it as a problem?
0:51:29 > 0:51:32When we went on honeymoon.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34That was awful.
0:51:34 > 0:51:36Katy passed out on the plane,
0:51:36 > 0:51:39cos she was so scared of having sex with me.
0:51:39 > 0:51:41Were you aware why she passed out?
0:51:41 > 0:51:43No, I was watching a film, on the plane!
0:51:43 > 0:51:47- I was watching, what was, it Dukes of Hazzard?- Starsky and Hutch.
0:51:47 > 0:51:49Starsky and Hutch or something.
0:51:49 > 0:51:51And I was in the toilet for nearly the entire film.
0:51:51 > 0:51:55I think I knew before you, obviously, that there was a real...
0:51:55 > 0:51:57Well, you had all these fears inside.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00I had all these wild expectations,
0:52:00 > 0:52:01and Katy had all these wild fears.
0:52:01 > 0:52:04- And it just, like, collided. - Yeah, it did. That's exactly it.
0:52:04 > 0:52:06Like some kind of explosion.
0:52:06 > 0:52:09I can't shake off...
0:52:09 > 0:52:11feeling...
0:52:11 > 0:52:14filthy and dirty,
0:52:14 > 0:52:20and also I'm just being bombarded by sensations of then.
0:52:20 > 0:52:24I know it's an incredible loss for Joe.
0:52:24 > 0:52:26I know that.
0:52:28 > 0:52:32It's an incredible loss for you as well,
0:52:32 > 0:52:35that you can't feel about it how I feel about it.
0:52:35 > 0:52:36You've been...
0:52:36 > 0:52:39Something's been taken from you that will never get back.
0:52:39 > 0:52:43And now we'll never properly share what we could have done.
0:52:43 > 0:52:49And the whole thing is just incredibly, incredibly sad.
0:52:52 > 0:52:54And I can't do anything about it.
0:53:08 > 0:53:10With the police and Crown Prosecution Service
0:53:10 > 0:53:12forced to investigate Savile's crimes,
0:53:12 > 0:53:16it was the turn of another British institution
0:53:16 > 0:53:19to become the story - the BBC.
0:53:19 > 0:53:22Not only had Savile abused children on BBC premises,
0:53:22 > 0:53:27but almost a year before his crimes were revealed, it had filmed,
0:53:27 > 0:53:30but never shown, this interview with Karin Ward.
0:53:31 > 0:53:33He promised me that if I gave him oral sex
0:53:33 > 0:53:36that he would arrange for me and my friends
0:53:36 > 0:53:40to go to Television Centre and be on his television show.
0:53:42 > 0:53:46The BBC stood accused of a cover-up.
0:53:46 > 0:53:48The allegations and what seems to have happened
0:53:48 > 0:53:50are completely appalling,
0:53:50 > 0:53:52and I think are shocking the entire country.
0:53:52 > 0:53:55And these allegations do leave many institutions,
0:53:55 > 0:53:58perhaps particularly the BBC, with serious questions to answer.
0:54:01 > 0:54:03It was an inconvenient story,
0:54:03 > 0:54:05a very inconvenient story for the BBC.
0:54:05 > 0:54:07You look at how much damage it could do.
0:54:07 > 0:54:12It could damage other BBC presenters and entertainers.
0:54:12 > 0:54:16The BBC could be sued for damages.
0:54:17 > 0:54:21The whole culture of the BBC would come under scrutiny
0:54:21 > 0:54:25at a time when the BBC is in a vulnerable position.
0:54:25 > 0:54:27I've been asked not to do interviews, but, yes,
0:54:27 > 0:54:30obviously I'm happy that our story is out there.
0:54:34 > 0:54:36The ensuing crisis marked the beginning of the end
0:54:36 > 0:54:40for the BBC's Director General, George Entwistle.
0:54:42 > 0:54:47In the inquiries that followed, no evidence was found of a cover-up.
0:54:48 > 0:54:51But the BBC was heavily criticised
0:54:51 > 0:54:53for a culture that had allowed Savile's abuse
0:54:53 > 0:54:55to go undetected for decades.
0:54:58 > 0:55:01There was a degree of internal knowledge
0:55:01 > 0:55:03about Jimmy Savile,
0:55:03 > 0:55:07and I think a lot of how the BBC behaved
0:55:07 > 0:55:09was as other institutions behaved.
0:55:09 > 0:55:13The people making the complaints are sidelined,
0:55:13 > 0:55:15they are disbelieved,
0:55:15 > 0:55:17they are seen as not credible
0:55:17 > 0:55:24and often blamed for something that they weren't at all responsible for.
0:55:24 > 0:55:26And in that way, actually,
0:55:26 > 0:55:32I think the BBC behaved exactly as other institutions did.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39Attention then turned to another institution -
0:55:39 > 0:55:42the NHS.
0:55:44 > 0:55:47Investigations were launched into Savile's activities
0:55:47 > 0:55:49at 13 hospitals and a hospice.
0:55:51 > 0:55:56One of the biggest took place in Savile's home town of Leeds.
0:56:02 > 0:56:06It was led by former detective, Ray Galloway.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11I thought as a result of my career in the police service,
0:56:11 > 0:56:14in which I saw some pretty harrowing sights,
0:56:14 > 0:56:16and dealt with some really nasty people,
0:56:16 > 0:56:20that...Savile would be quite straightforward.
0:56:20 > 0:56:22He wasn't.
0:56:22 > 0:56:24I didn't think I'd need support,
0:56:24 > 0:56:27I had that traditional view of,
0:56:27 > 0:56:29"I've got no problem,
0:56:29 > 0:56:31"I've seen this all before." I hadn't.
0:56:33 > 0:56:37We put screen savers on all of the organisational computers,
0:56:37 > 0:56:40posters all around the hospital,
0:56:40 > 0:56:41and the message was out,
0:56:41 > 0:56:45and over a period of time, it started to gather momentum.
0:56:48 > 0:56:51Savile's victims at Leeds
0:56:51 > 0:56:55ranged from 5 to 75.
0:56:55 > 0:56:58They were patients, they were visitors,
0:56:58 > 0:57:01they were staff, they were people who worked with him.
0:57:04 > 0:57:08I saw a poster about speaking out,
0:57:08 > 0:57:11and I had to think about it for a long time...
0:57:12 > 0:57:14How long did you think about it for?
0:57:14 > 0:57:16- Months.- Really?- Mm-hm.
0:57:16 > 0:57:18It was just towards,
0:57:18 > 0:57:22they were closing up doing all the interviews, that I went.
0:57:23 > 0:57:25I think I wanted to believed
0:57:25 > 0:57:28and I thought, "This is my one chance.
0:57:28 > 0:57:31"If I don't do it now, I'm not going to,
0:57:31 > 0:57:34"I'm going to go to my grave with it."
0:57:34 > 0:57:37She came in.
0:57:37 > 0:57:42You'd think from her appearance that she would be a confident lady.
0:57:42 > 0:57:43She was anything but.
0:57:43 > 0:57:47She was a shell, she was shaking, she was tearful,
0:57:47 > 0:57:51and...she just wanted to tell her story.
0:57:57 > 0:58:00I had to go the head porter.
0:58:00 > 0:58:02There was Jimmy Savile,
0:58:02 > 0:58:06sat there, laid in the chair in his office.
0:58:06 > 0:58:09And he came up to me and said,
0:58:09 > 0:58:11"Would you like to go for a cup of tea?
0:58:11 > 0:58:13"I've got to go to my mother's house
0:58:13 > 0:58:16"and we could have a cup of tea there."
0:58:16 > 0:58:19And...sort of being a bit star-struck
0:58:19 > 0:58:22and a bit curious, I thought,
0:58:22 > 0:58:25"Oh, OK. Yeah, why not?"
0:58:27 > 0:58:30Off we went, in his white Rolls-Royce.
0:58:34 > 0:58:38He pushed me back, undressed.
0:58:38 > 0:58:40I think he might have seen the look
0:58:40 > 0:58:43of sheer horror and shock on my face.
0:58:43 > 0:58:45He said, "Don't worry, I've had a vasectomy."
0:58:48 > 0:58:50And I just froze.
0:58:53 > 0:58:56I did actually say, "Stop this, I don't want it."
0:58:59 > 0:59:04And...he didn't.
0:59:04 > 0:59:06It was very...cruel.
0:59:13 > 0:59:18I thought I...somehow asked for it.
0:59:18 > 0:59:20How long did you feel that?
0:59:20 > 0:59:22Until about two or three years ago.
0:59:24 > 0:59:28I would get so depressed.
0:59:28 > 0:59:31I had anorexia as well.
0:59:31 > 0:59:35I had absolutely no confidence in myself,
0:59:35 > 0:59:38I hated myself.
0:59:38 > 0:59:40I just felt I was branded.
0:59:43 > 0:59:47The only person I ever told was my husband,
0:59:47 > 0:59:50before we got married.
0:59:51 > 0:59:55She told you, you sort of became complicit in that secrecy.
0:59:55 > 0:59:58It wasn't secret, it was shame.
1:00:00 > 1:00:02- Wasn't it?- What? - You were ashamed of it.
1:00:02 > 1:00:04No, but how did you...?
1:00:04 > 1:00:07- I wasn't ashamed of it. - Oh.- Your shame...
1:00:07 > 1:00:09I wasn't complicit in your secrecy,
1:00:09 > 1:00:13I was complicit in keeping your shame away from other people,
1:00:13 > 1:00:15- so it didn't affect you.- Yes.
1:00:15 > 1:00:17I was trying to protect you on that basis...
1:00:17 > 1:00:20It had a great deal of effect on my husband,
1:00:20 > 1:00:21cos he had to cope.
1:00:21 > 1:00:24cos I was in hospital quite a few times.
1:00:26 > 1:00:28Anorexia was the physical manifestation,
1:00:28 > 1:00:31which was frightening, very frightening.
1:00:31 > 1:00:34You nearly copped it a couple of times, didn't you?
1:00:34 > 1:00:36I couldn't...
1:00:37 > 1:00:41I had to watch Pauline eat. I used to panic if she didn't.
1:00:41 > 1:00:44I used to say, "Have something." "Don't want anything."
1:00:44 > 1:00:47"Have a little. Have some milk in your coffee.
1:00:47 > 1:00:49"Have some breakfast, have some tea, have a bit of lunch,
1:00:49 > 1:00:51"have this, that and the other",
1:00:51 > 1:00:55to the point where I was becoming really, really boring
1:00:55 > 1:00:59because I was petrified that she was going to sink back
1:00:59 > 1:01:01into this awful illness,
1:01:01 > 1:01:04this anorexia, which is a killer.
1:01:04 > 1:01:07I thought, "One more time, she ain't going to survive."
1:01:07 > 1:01:09And that frightened me.
1:01:09 > 1:01:12I couldn't get the mental problem.
1:01:12 > 1:01:15It never occurred to me until afterwards
1:01:15 > 1:01:19that the root of it, the very, very root of it,
1:01:19 > 1:01:22was right back down there at the LGI.
1:01:24 > 1:01:29She was taken into the interview room and we had a chat with her,
1:01:29 > 1:01:33and it was clear that she had not consented in any way with Savile.
1:01:34 > 1:01:37He'd taken advantage of her, he'd forced himself on her.
1:01:37 > 1:01:42And I don't think she really knew what had happened to her.
1:01:42 > 1:01:47It wasn't until Ray explained, when I told him the details,
1:01:47 > 1:01:50that he said, "That is rape."
1:01:54 > 1:01:57He gave me the actual definition.
1:01:57 > 1:02:02He said, "This is what happened to you."
1:02:02 > 1:02:04So I said, "Do you believe me?" He said, "Yes."
1:02:07 > 1:02:08What was that like?
1:02:10 > 1:02:12I was so relived.
1:02:12 > 1:02:16And then it was as though a great weight had been lifted from her,
1:02:16 > 1:02:18because she could talk about it without feeling worried,
1:02:18 > 1:02:20without feeling ashamed,
1:02:20 > 1:02:21without feeling disgusted with herself.
1:02:21 > 1:02:26And all of a sudden, she was Pauline, properly Pauline.
1:02:26 > 1:02:30She was there, and I always knew she was under there somewhere.
1:02:30 > 1:02:34And I thought, "Oh, good, this is what I've been waiting for!"
1:02:34 > 1:02:38- We got there in the end.- Yeah. - THEY LAUGH
1:02:38 > 1:02:39Sorry, darling,
1:02:39 > 1:02:42- to have caused you so much hassle over the years.- It's all right.
1:03:07 > 1:03:09Right...
1:03:09 > 1:03:12I parked down there.
1:03:12 > 1:03:15'I've just hit that wave of anxiety.'
1:03:15 > 1:03:17I don't even know what I'm doing.
1:03:17 > 1:03:19- Following me. - Yeah, probably a good idea...
1:03:22 > 1:03:24'I will be giving evidence.
1:03:24 > 1:03:27'Well, being cross-examined, actually.
1:03:28 > 1:03:31'It's going to be scary.'
1:03:32 > 1:03:35...almost have a car crash and it's a near-miss
1:03:35 > 1:03:37and your legs go like jelly, you feel sick.
1:03:37 > 1:03:40- Yeah, it's like that. - It's a bit like that.
1:03:41 > 1:03:45I hate being perceived as weak. I hate it.
1:03:45 > 1:03:48Um...and that's my whole thing
1:03:48 > 1:03:51about being a vulnerable victim, sort of thing.
1:03:51 > 1:03:53I can't stand it.
1:03:57 > 1:04:00Katy's case came to us four-and-a-half years ago.
1:04:02 > 1:04:04Although you could see she was vulnerable,
1:04:04 > 1:04:07you could also see she was quite strong as well.
1:04:07 > 1:04:10If you could tell me, then, what it is you want us to know...
1:04:16 > 1:04:18'You could see it was very difficult for her
1:04:18 > 1:04:21'to verbalise the things that had happened to her.
1:04:23 > 1:04:28'She was unable to say certain parts of the anatomy.
1:04:28 > 1:04:30'But she was articulate.'
1:04:30 > 1:04:34And on the path, there was this little...a bit like a bridleway,
1:04:34 > 1:04:36we'd made a den...
1:04:36 > 1:04:38'She gave a good and clear and concise account.'
1:04:43 > 1:04:46Nearly five years since first going to the police,
1:04:46 > 1:04:49Katy is going to be cross-examined by the defence,
1:04:49 > 1:04:52who'll challenge her version of events.
1:04:52 > 1:04:55I don't think anybody would relish or enjoy
1:04:55 > 1:04:58somebody questioning their reliability.
1:04:58 > 1:05:02They're going to try and say that the witness is telling lies.
1:05:02 > 1:05:04- Right, gotta go, bye. - Bye-bye.
1:05:04 > 1:05:07Good luck, darling, good luck. We all love you.
1:05:07 > 1:05:09- We'll be in the gallery. - OK.
1:05:09 > 1:05:13We love you. See you shortly. See you very soon, babe.
1:05:13 > 1:05:15- Oh, my God.- I love you.
1:05:15 > 1:05:17'It's the fear that they've had all their lives,
1:05:17 > 1:05:18'that nobody will believe them.'
1:05:21 > 1:05:23It's playing to their biggest fears.
1:05:24 > 1:05:27You're going to be fine. You're going to be fine.
1:05:43 > 1:05:45- Kate, is it left here?- Yes.
1:05:45 > 1:05:49You were amazing. I...
1:05:49 > 1:05:51Yeah.
1:05:52 > 1:05:57- She said that you grew ten feet. - You did, you grew ten feet.
1:06:00 > 1:06:03What do victims say it's like?
1:06:03 > 1:06:07More often than not, they'll say, "I would never do that again".
1:06:07 > 1:06:09Yeah.
1:06:29 > 1:06:33The jury will deliver its verdict tomorrow.
1:06:42 > 1:06:45More than 500 men and women came forward,
1:06:45 > 1:06:48saying they were victims of Savile.
1:06:48 > 1:06:50But because he was dead,
1:06:50 > 1:06:53they would never have their day in a criminal court.
1:06:53 > 1:06:55Many turned to the civil courts
1:06:55 > 1:06:59for recognition that they had been abused.
1:06:59 > 1:07:02I think the word "compensation" is a horrible word.
1:07:02 > 1:07:06I get very cross with people who portray me
1:07:06 > 1:07:10as someone who is only doing this for compensation.
1:07:10 > 1:07:13It's not.
1:07:13 > 1:07:16It is a...a recognition. It's...
1:07:16 > 1:07:18And in Savile,
1:07:18 > 1:07:21that was all that they were able to achieve.
1:07:21 > 1:07:23Savile was now dead,
1:07:23 > 1:07:26so the only remedy they had
1:07:26 > 1:07:30was to pursue an action against his estate.
1:07:32 > 1:07:35But the effects on you have obviously been very, very serious.
1:07:35 > 1:07:38It happened to you at a very early age,
1:07:38 > 1:07:40when you were extremely impressionable...
1:07:40 > 1:07:42'We knew that there wasn't going to be enough
1:07:42 > 1:07:45'in the Savile estate to go round,
1:07:45 > 1:07:48'because of the quantity of the victims.
1:07:48 > 1:07:53'But what's important is that no-one is above the law.'
1:07:53 > 1:07:56There were other allegations against him, weren't there?
1:07:56 > 1:08:03'Since Savile, people have felt empowered to try and seek justice.
1:08:03 > 1:08:07People now feel, "I'm not going to sit on this for evermore.
1:08:07 > 1:08:09"I have to do something now,
1:08:09 > 1:08:12"I have to do something in my lifetime
1:08:12 > 1:08:15"while someone can be prosecuted, or I'm going to regret it".
1:08:17 > 1:08:21That need for justice led Operation Yewtree
1:08:21 > 1:08:23to take a dramatic turn.
1:08:24 > 1:08:26- REPORTER:- 'Hundreds of other people have come forward
1:08:26 > 1:08:29'to complain about people other than Jimmy Savile.
1:08:29 > 1:08:32'They believe this will be a watershed moment
1:08:32 > 1:08:34'in the prosecution of sexual offences.'
1:08:37 > 1:08:39OK, ladies and gents. Good morning
1:08:39 > 1:08:44and welcome to the Gold Group for Operation Yewtree.
1:08:44 > 1:08:47There will be living suspects who need to be dealt with.
1:08:47 > 1:08:51Those suspects may well provide a threat to children today,
1:08:51 > 1:08:53and I think we all need to be prepared
1:08:53 > 1:08:55for the profile and the publicity.
1:08:58 > 1:09:04'We knew fairly quickly that there were going to be live suspects
1:09:04 > 1:09:06'that we were going to have to deal with.'
1:09:06 > 1:09:10I knew that these cases had to be investigated.
1:09:10 > 1:09:12Doesn't matter how old the offending was,
1:09:12 > 1:09:14it is still live for those victims.
1:09:14 > 1:09:17So, again...
1:09:17 > 1:09:21The most prolific living offender investigated by Yewtree
1:09:21 > 1:09:23was former DJ Chris Denning.
1:09:25 > 1:09:28He was charged with 41 sexual offences
1:09:28 > 1:09:32against boys as young as nine.
1:09:32 > 1:09:3726 men were willing to testify against him.
1:09:37 > 1:09:39One of them was Dave.
1:09:41 > 1:09:44Why would you like to be anonymous for this interview?
1:09:48 > 1:09:49I...
1:09:52 > 1:09:56I never want my mum to know that she...
1:09:59 > 1:10:01..wasn't there to stop this.
1:10:04 > 1:10:06It'd kill her.
1:10:10 > 1:10:15What effect do you think meeting Chris Denning has had on you?
1:10:16 > 1:10:19I think it's stopped me loving.
1:10:23 > 1:10:25I've got this new, annoying thing that I do.
1:10:25 > 1:10:28HE GASPS
1:10:28 > 1:10:31- So when I feel something, it's... - HE GASPS AGAIN
1:10:31 > 1:10:34It's, liking, pushing down on it. Don't let it out.
1:10:36 > 1:10:38I suppose if you can think
1:10:38 > 1:10:44of taking every emotion you've ever had in your life and boxing it up,
1:10:44 > 1:10:50that's what sits inside me, ready to...explode.
1:10:50 > 1:10:54And occasionally, it explodes.
1:10:54 > 1:10:58And when that explosion goes on, people don't see it coming.
1:10:58 > 1:11:00They don't think they've done anything,
1:11:00 > 1:11:03but somewhere inside, that pressure has just gone "pfff".
1:11:06 > 1:11:08I was sort of, sitting there,
1:11:08 > 1:11:12pondering life, as you do, or as I do,
1:11:12 > 1:11:16um...and, sort of, Chris popped into my head.
1:11:18 > 1:11:24So I decided to google the effects of child abuse.
1:11:24 > 1:11:28How does it manifest itself as an adult?
1:11:28 > 1:11:31And so I googled it,
1:11:31 > 1:11:35and there was this list of ten things.
1:11:37 > 1:11:40Yeah, I'm sure I got seven or eight out of ten.
1:11:40 > 1:11:45Cutting yourself off, anger,
1:11:45 > 1:11:50risk takers, lack of emotion...
1:11:50 > 1:11:55It was, for me, the saddest thing I'd ever read.
1:11:55 > 1:12:01You think, "God, if it wasn't for all this, I would still be..."
1:12:01 > 1:12:03HE GASPS
1:12:03 > 1:12:05You wouldn't have all the regret.
1:12:08 > 1:12:10All the people you've...
1:12:15 > 1:12:19..loved and pushed away.
1:12:23 > 1:12:25How did you meet?
1:12:25 > 1:12:28- We met online. - Which one?
1:12:28 > 1:12:30Plenty Of Fish!
1:12:32 > 1:12:34I explained what had happened to me.
1:12:34 > 1:12:40So she was the first person I'd ever told about it.
1:12:43 > 1:12:45What was it like, to tell someone?
1:12:47 > 1:12:48Horrible.
1:12:53 > 1:12:55Makes it real.
1:12:57 > 1:12:59I was absolutely out of my depth,
1:12:59 > 1:13:03but I just wanted to try and encourage him,
1:13:03 > 1:13:05you know, to get counselling.
1:13:06 > 1:13:10- Did you want to go for counselling, Dave?- No.
1:13:10 > 1:13:12That means telling people.
1:13:12 > 1:13:14He hated it!
1:13:14 > 1:13:18She would be trying to make me feel this stuff
1:13:18 > 1:13:20and I would do anything not to.
1:13:20 > 1:13:22So, she would bring something up
1:13:22 > 1:13:24and I'd just change the subject or move away from it.
1:13:24 > 1:13:28I want show you feelings, and how I felt, just no-one else.
1:13:35 > 1:13:39Dave was able to testify at Chris Denning's trial,
1:13:39 > 1:13:44and his evidence was key in securing a conviction.
1:13:44 > 1:13:49The DJ was sentenced to 13 years in prison.
1:13:49 > 1:13:53It was Operation Yewtree's first successful prosecution.
1:13:57 > 1:14:01But by now, police forces across the country were being
1:14:01 > 1:14:05overwhelmed by hundreds of new cases of historical abuse.
1:14:05 > 1:14:08I've got Rosemary. Who else, Cathy?
1:14:08 > 1:14:12In Manchester, three women had come forward
1:14:12 > 1:14:16with allegations about a local DJ, Ray Teret.
1:14:16 > 1:14:18OK, Ray, you're currently under arrest
1:14:18 > 1:14:20on suspicion of the following.
1:14:20 > 1:14:24- The rape of- BLEEP- in 1962.
1:14:24 > 1:14:27The rape and unlawful sexual intercourse and sexual assault
1:14:27 > 1:14:30of Cathy Landsborough in 1972 and 1973.
1:14:30 > 1:14:34- I've no idea who they are.- OK.
1:14:34 > 1:14:38I was one of the first three to come forward.
1:14:38 > 1:14:43I decided, I'll give evidence against Teret.
1:14:43 > 1:14:44Would they believe me?
1:14:44 > 1:14:47Would anyone believe me over him?
1:14:49 > 1:14:51Ray Teret, who is 72, was given bail
1:14:51 > 1:14:55and told to appear at the Crown Court next month.
1:14:55 > 1:14:57And then when it went out on the news,
1:14:57 > 1:15:01that was when everyone started to come forward.
1:15:01 > 1:15:04And it's like, "Bring them on, because I know you're there."
1:15:09 > 1:15:12It was just by luck that I had the television on that day.
1:15:15 > 1:15:17Ray Teret was coming out of court,
1:15:17 > 1:15:21denying the charges that were brought against him.
1:15:23 > 1:15:26And he was smiling and waving.
1:15:26 > 1:15:28And that did something to me.
1:15:29 > 1:15:30It changed me.
1:15:33 > 1:15:36And I knew I had to do something.
1:15:36 > 1:15:38I rang the three children,
1:15:38 > 1:15:43and told them to be here on the Monday night at 7:00.
1:15:45 > 1:15:48She just didn't sound like herself.
1:15:48 > 1:15:52She said, "What I'm going to tell you, I never wanted to tell you."
1:15:52 > 1:15:59I said, "In 1960 I was raped by Jimmy Savile and Ray Teret."
1:16:01 > 1:16:05To see the kids, they were crying and they were hugging me,
1:16:05 > 1:16:09and the hurt that I'd caused them by telling them, you know.
1:16:10 > 1:16:13My mum said, "It's over now."
1:16:13 > 1:16:15And I got angry.
1:16:15 > 1:16:17"What do you mean, it's over?"
1:16:17 > 1:16:21She said, "I never even wanted to tell you and upset you,
1:16:21 > 1:16:23"it's angered me that I've had to do this.
1:16:23 > 1:16:25"But now it's over, we forget it."
1:16:25 > 1:16:27I said, "I can't forget this."
1:16:27 > 1:16:30And she went home, found out who he was
1:16:30 > 1:16:32and rang the police the next day.
1:16:35 > 1:16:37So really, without her,
1:16:37 > 1:16:41none of this would have happened, really.
1:16:41 > 1:16:44I never dreamed of the trial and everything like that.
1:16:48 > 1:16:51By the time Teret's trial began,
1:16:51 > 1:16:5517 women had come forward to testify against him.
1:16:56 > 1:17:01Ray Teret in court, when he was questioned, that was nice.
1:17:01 > 1:17:05It was nice to see him lying in court, lie, lie, lie.
1:17:05 > 1:17:08Cos that's all he did, lie.
1:17:09 > 1:17:12It sounds like part of you really enjoyed it.
1:17:12 > 1:17:15I did enjoy the cross-examination.
1:17:15 > 1:17:17Because I got my story across.
1:17:17 > 1:17:21When I did it and come back and she saw my face...
1:17:21 > 1:17:23It was like a different woman.
1:17:23 > 1:17:27All the lines had gone and the age had gone...
1:17:27 > 1:17:32It was like I'd gone back to the '60s and I was...
1:17:32 > 1:17:34Nothing had happened.
1:17:34 > 1:17:36It had all come out of me.
1:17:36 > 1:17:40The judge just wiped the floor with him.
1:17:40 > 1:17:45He sentenced him to 25 years.
1:17:47 > 1:17:49Which...
1:17:49 > 1:17:52I couldn't believe it.
1:17:52 > 1:17:55And everybody clapped.
1:17:56 > 1:18:00And when he came up for the verdict,
1:18:00 > 1:18:03he had his head down,
1:18:03 > 1:18:05he never looked at nobody.
1:18:07 > 1:18:10And the same when he went down.
1:18:10 > 1:18:15He was just an old, evil, broken man.
1:18:18 > 1:18:21- And how did you feel about that? - Good.
1:18:33 > 1:18:36I always start getting nervous when I get ready.
1:18:38 > 1:18:42Preparation, important, the prep.
1:18:42 > 1:18:44It is for me, anyway.
1:18:49 > 1:18:53I want to be smart, I want to feel like me.
1:18:56 > 1:18:58And hoping...
1:18:58 > 1:19:00God knows what it will be like today.
1:19:04 > 1:19:10The jury delivers its verdict today.
1:19:10 > 1:19:13There are ten sex offence charges
1:19:13 > 1:19:17alleged to have been carried out on Katy or her friend 24 years ago,
1:19:17 > 1:19:20just yards from Katy's family home.
1:19:20 > 1:19:24I think it's broke us a bit as a family, and it really has,
1:19:24 > 1:19:27because we used to be so happy.
1:19:27 > 1:19:32Even when I go to bed at night, I can be...
1:19:32 > 1:19:33You wake up, don't you?
1:19:33 > 1:19:37I wake up in early hours of the morning, and I've been dreaming.
1:19:37 > 1:19:39It's about the court case.
1:19:41 > 1:19:45And I've not been a witness for the prosecution.
1:19:47 > 1:19:51I were in the defendant's box,
1:19:51 > 1:19:54and I were in there,
1:19:54 > 1:19:57and I can remember the judge saying,
1:19:57 > 1:20:00"You're guilty, take him down."
1:20:00 > 1:20:04And I'm thinking, "I haven't done anything wrong."
1:20:04 > 1:20:08But somewhere in my head, I have.
1:20:11 > 1:20:12Let's do this then.
1:20:16 > 1:20:20Something happened that wasn't right.
1:20:21 > 1:20:27I want a formal acknowledgement of what happened to me.
1:20:29 > 1:20:35Believed, being believed, is important.
1:20:35 > 1:20:37It is important.
1:20:57 > 1:21:01The accused has been found guilty of five of the ten charges,
1:21:01 > 1:21:05four indecent assaults, and one act of gross indecency,
1:21:05 > 1:21:08where Katy and her friend were both present.
1:21:12 > 1:21:15The jury didn't find him guilty of the charges
1:21:15 > 1:21:17where it was Katy's word against his.
1:21:25 > 1:21:28Why don't they believe me?
1:21:28 > 1:21:32SHE SCREAMS
1:21:38 > 1:21:41SHE SOBS
1:22:29 > 1:22:36They don't believe...me.
1:22:36 > 1:22:39They believe him.
1:22:41 > 1:22:44I don't think it's a case of belief.
1:22:44 > 1:22:46It's not a personal verdict.
1:22:46 > 1:22:49It's not personal against her.
1:22:49 > 1:22:52It's against the evidence.
1:22:52 > 1:22:55I'm happy that we got the guilty verdict for the five that we did,
1:22:55 > 1:22:58and we've safeguarded every child
1:22:58 > 1:23:01that comes into contact with him
1:23:01 > 1:23:03for the remainder of his life.
1:23:03 > 1:23:05So it's a good verdict.
1:23:19 > 1:23:21It's probably the most hardest thing I've ever had to do
1:23:21 > 1:23:23in my whole entire life.
1:23:26 > 1:23:29And I don't deal with it very well sometimes.
1:23:32 > 1:23:34But it's almost like a road
1:23:34 > 1:23:37that was always going to be travelled down anyway.
1:23:37 > 1:23:40Even if it made our relationship worse,
1:23:40 > 1:23:42I think we were always going to do this.
1:23:43 > 1:23:46We don't know if it will make our relationship worse.
1:23:46 > 1:23:48In another six months' time,
1:23:48 > 1:23:51we might find we're really struggling with something
1:23:51 > 1:23:52because of this.
1:23:52 > 1:23:55And then we'll look back and go, "Was it worth it for that?"
1:23:55 > 1:23:57I don't know.
1:23:57 > 1:24:00And as I said, the road was always going to be taken.
1:24:00 > 1:24:04So, we'll just live with the outcome of it, really.
1:24:05 > 1:24:07Mmm.
1:24:13 > 1:24:15Katy!
1:24:16 > 1:24:18Tree line on the right, yeah?
1:24:18 > 1:24:20That's what you want to be aiming for.
1:24:20 > 1:24:22I'll go on the other side of you. All right?
1:24:24 > 1:24:26I just started swimming.
1:24:31 > 1:24:34It's just an amazing feeling, being in the middle of a lake.
1:24:37 > 1:24:39Kind of become a part of it.
1:24:41 > 1:24:43It's a place where I put my anger,
1:24:43 > 1:24:47knowing that I can swim the length of it,
1:24:47 > 1:24:50knowing that I'm not weak, not vulnerable.
1:24:53 > 1:24:54I've got to keep swimming.
1:25:11 > 1:25:13Yewtree has now run its course.
1:25:13 > 1:25:16It's been almost three years. It's synonymous with Savile.
1:25:16 > 1:25:18He's dead.
1:25:18 > 1:25:21The reality is it's actually just the beginning.
1:25:21 > 1:25:26Because we look at what has been termed the Yewtree effect,
1:25:26 > 1:25:29and the consequences of what was uncovered.
1:25:29 > 1:25:31That leads to what is going to be
1:25:31 > 1:25:37Britain's biggest ever public enquiry into child sexual abuse.
1:25:44 > 1:25:50I think as a society we have some real issues to confront.
1:25:50 > 1:25:53Yewtree is just the end of the beginning.
1:26:04 > 1:26:05The relief.
1:26:05 > 1:26:08I haven't kept it a secret.
1:26:11 > 1:26:13It's pure and utter relief,
1:26:13 > 1:26:15and for some reason that has allowed me
1:26:15 > 1:26:17to start to be who I am and want to be.
1:26:19 > 1:26:23All the people that matter have believed me.
1:26:23 > 1:26:28So, yeah, that's a great big thing for me.
1:26:28 > 1:26:32That's the most important thing.
1:26:32 > 1:26:38Good people, good people who listened but didn't hear before,
1:26:38 > 1:26:42are really listening now, and they are hearing.
1:26:42 > 1:26:44This isn't just a product of the '70s,
1:26:44 > 1:26:46and this isn't just something...
1:26:50 > 1:26:53..that happened to hundreds of us then.
1:26:53 > 1:26:55It's still happening.