:00:00. > :00:14.Fraud is the UK's national disgrace. A staggering ?20 billion stolen from
:00:15. > :00:22.the state last year - more than the government spends on all our police.
:00:23. > :00:27.I'm Richard Bilton. In this series I'm on the front line with the
:00:28. > :00:32.investigators fighting fraud. Get the car clamped or removed? Let's
:00:33. > :00:37.remove it. Tonight, Blue Badge wars - the people who see disabled bays
:00:38. > :00:41.as free parking. How can I calm down when my car was towed? Cos you had
:00:42. > :00:46.taken a disabled space from somebody who needs the bay. The con man on
:00:47. > :00:52.benefits with a string of businesses, properties and a secret
:00:53. > :00:59.life. This is the latest manifestation of my mid-life crisis,
:01:00. > :01:01.which seems to be going on for ever. And the seemingly respectable
:01:02. > :01:15.businessmen who see VAT as a profitable scam. Can we cut the
:01:16. > :01:20.filming please? Andrea Cordery's job is to track down con men. She thinks
:01:21. > :01:28.she's found one, and she's on her way to deliver a summons. This is
:01:29. > :01:31.not just some lone parent doing an extra cleaning job or something to
:01:32. > :01:37.feed her starving children or his starving children. This has been
:01:38. > :01:48.quite, um, deceitful, to say the least. Andrea works for Croydon
:01:49. > :02:02.Council, and this has been a difficult case. Good morning. Is
:02:03. > :02:11.that Mr Sussams? Yeah. Hi, I've got something for you. If I could just
:02:12. > :02:15.leave that for you. Thank you very much. I've managed to serve him with
:02:16. > :02:19.the summons, I'm just going to make a note of it. We'll hopefully see
:02:20. > :02:23.him in court next week. Good. Happy, yes! Andrea's target is a man
:02:24. > :02:26.accused of stealing ?32,000. Stephen Sussams had been getting benefits to
:02:27. > :02:31.care for his sick friend, Keith Dickenson. When he died he should
:02:32. > :02:37.have told the council. They say he didn't - he just kept taking the
:02:38. > :02:40.cash. The person who was in charge of Keith Dickenson's affairs,
:02:41. > :02:45.according to our records, was his partner, Stephen Sussams. The day
:02:46. > :02:49.after his partner passed away he'd actually gone in and started taking
:02:50. > :02:53.money out of the account. The account was not closed, it kept on
:02:54. > :03:00.running, so the council kept on paying into... For care for a dead
:03:01. > :03:04.man? For care for a dead man. The council say Mr Sussams cleared more
:03:05. > :03:10.than ?17,000 from his dead friend's bank account. We needed to get that
:03:11. > :03:15.money back, so we wrote to him in 2009 asking him to give us a refund
:03:16. > :03:19.of this money. He did not want to take responsibility for that. That
:03:20. > :03:23.led to us having to have a closer look at his affairs, and then it
:03:24. > :03:33.just opened up a whole can of worms for him. I've been looking at this
:03:34. > :03:40.case for two years. The more I dug, the more extraordinary it became. It
:03:41. > :03:47.began in one of the smartest parts of Devon. We'd heard that Mr Sussams
:03:48. > :03:53.had been spotted at the Royal Dart pub. It's a historic building on the
:03:54. > :03:56.waterfront - next to a beautiful marina - and Mr Sussams seemed to be
:03:57. > :03:58.in charge. Our undercover reporter caught him as he was getting out of
:03:59. > :04:33.his Bentley. So, for all that time Stephen
:04:34. > :04:38.Sussams seemed to be living a double life. Croydon Council gave him a
:04:39. > :04:42.flat and reduced council tax because they thought he was struggling. But,
:04:43. > :04:59.in reality, he was living the high life on the English Riviera.
:05:00. > :05:05.There were two things wrong with what he was doing. You can't have a
:05:06. > :05:08.council flat if you don't live in it, and you can't get benefits if
:05:09. > :05:15.you're earning a decent living from your own business. Mr Sussams? I'm
:05:16. > :05:18.Richard Bilton from BBC Panorama. I was wondering how you could get
:05:19. > :05:23.benefits and a council house when you've got a pub down in Devon? As
:05:24. > :05:26.you know... The case is under investigation by the council. I've
:05:27. > :05:32.no intention of being involved in trial by television. This is your
:05:33. > :05:37.right to reply, because this is a very nice car, you've got a lovely
:05:38. > :05:44.pub... Well, Mr Sussams has now got a real trial on his hands. So, yeah,
:05:45. > :05:49.we're... It's sooner than we thought but, yeah... Let's get it to court
:05:50. > :05:52.and let's get a decision on it. Andrea is off to a pre-trial hearing
:05:53. > :06:00.to see how Stephen Sussams will plead. At this point, what would be
:06:01. > :06:05.good is if he just entered a guilty plea and then we won't need to waste
:06:06. > :06:08.any more of the tax payers' money. The stakes are high. Croydon has
:06:09. > :06:10.spent thousands investigating this case. But Mr Sussams says he'll
:06:11. > :06:38.fight to clear his name. This is Mark. He's one of our...one
:06:39. > :06:43.of our best investigators on the team. I like to use him as my junior
:06:44. > :06:49.as much as possible. Thank you. I'll pay you later! Try to teach him the
:06:50. > :06:52.ropes. Marcin and Mark are out on Blue Badge patrol in one of the
:06:53. > :06:56.smartest parts of London - Kensington Chelsea. Their job is
:06:57. > :07:00.to make sure the disabled parking spaces are only used by those
:07:01. > :07:09.registered as disabled. Not anyone using a badge for a bit of free
:07:10. > :07:15.parking. So where's this lady? Somewhere here. Somewhere here?
:07:16. > :07:19.Yeah. Can you be more specific? We're going on holidays and they're
:07:20. > :07:26.shopping. OK. So where are you going to meet her?. Here. What time? When
:07:27. > :07:30.they've finished they'll call me. So when do you think that will be?
:07:31. > :07:33.Couple of hours, three hours? OK. It's actually an offence to park in
:07:34. > :07:37.a disabled bay and use a disabled badge that doesn't belong to you and
:07:38. > :07:41.the person isn't in the vehicle. Yeah, but I'm having to drop them in
:07:42. > :07:44.the shop. What I'm going to have to do is caution you. Yeah. 'It's
:07:45. > :07:47.usually just everyday normal people' that wouldn't think about doing
:07:48. > :07:51.anything more serious, but they are quite happy to do this and they
:07:52. > :07:55.don't often think that there's a victim to this. They don't see it as
:07:56. > :07:59.a crime sometimes. Yeah. If they see an opportunity to save a bit of
:08:00. > :08:02.money, they think that the benefits outweigh the risks and they have a
:08:03. > :08:06.go. Are you disabled? No, I'm not. So you should have parked in a pay
:08:07. > :08:11.and display bay and paid for parking. I got out to go to my...
:08:12. > :08:14.This, I want to use my boot. I haven't parked here yet. I'm going
:08:15. > :08:18.to pick up my mum now, I'm just picking up money... But this is for
:08:19. > :08:21.people with a disability so they can park... But I'm the registered...
:08:22. > :08:25.All right, OK, but I... You've stopped in a disabled bay. The badge
:08:26. > :08:29.is on display on the screen. But I wasn't parking. Listen I'm sorry,
:08:30. > :08:34.but I believe an offence has been committed, Can I have my badges
:08:35. > :08:38.back? No, you can't. They're not your disabled badges. No-one told me
:08:39. > :08:43.that I can't use them while my mum's not in the car. I won't use them,
:08:44. > :08:46.I'll go and move the car and you can write your report. We will report
:08:47. > :08:50.that. You can report it, I know you will. Fine. Have a good day. Yeah,
:08:51. > :08:54.same to you. He's just basically got himself into court. We might have
:08:55. > :08:57.just given him a caution, but now he's definitely going to court so...
:08:58. > :09:00.And Marcin and Mark's work is appreciated by those who need he
:09:01. > :09:03.spaces. Why, what's going on? We're just making sure people are using
:09:04. > :09:07.their badges correctly. Oh, right, OK. So, thank you very much. No
:09:08. > :09:10.problem at all. 'I rarely come around here because there's only
:09:11. > :09:13.just two slots' and if the wrong person gets it it's not fair. Cos
:09:14. > :09:17.people with disabilities do really need to get out and most of the time
:09:18. > :09:21.you can't. So I'm grateful that they're out. I'll be obliged to show
:09:22. > :09:26.them my pass and with a smile, as well. Blue Badge abuse is a small
:09:27. > :09:30.crime, but it's carried out by a lot of people. It costs us all ?46
:09:31. > :09:36.million a year in lost revenue - money that could go on schools and
:09:37. > :09:47.hospitals. And all for a bit of free parking. Now we wait. We wait. Look
:09:48. > :09:54.at that, straight down a No Entry. And another. Oh, here we go, is he
:09:55. > :09:59.parking? I think we've got one. Is she going into the bay? I don't know
:10:00. > :10:06.if she's actually displayed the badge just yet. Yep, there we go.
:10:07. > :10:20.She's just placed it now. Is it OK if I see the badge? Yeah, sure.
:10:21. > :10:28.Thank you. If you want to see the details... Thank you very much. It's
:10:29. > :10:32.the same surname. That's OK. She said that she's just picking her
:10:33. > :10:36.mother up now. OK. So how long do you reckon you'll going to be? Half
:10:37. > :10:40.an hour, an hour? I'm not sure. I need to help her shopping in.
:10:41. > :10:47.Whereabouts is she? Inside Harrods. Have you just dropped her off? No,
:10:48. > :10:54.I'm picking her up. OK. All right. All right? OK. And I'd like you not
:10:55. > :10:58.to take any pictures of me. OK. We'll give you half-an-hour. And we
:10:59. > :11:02.need to see... And I want to see any documents of you, that you're, er...
:11:03. > :11:06.Yeah, I just showed you my ID. ID of what? That's my Kensington Chelsea
:11:07. > :11:10.badge, it's got my name on it. But you're not a traffic warden, are
:11:11. > :11:13.you? The woman heads off to Harrods, but Marcin has his suspicions. He
:11:14. > :11:16.calls the office. We've just stopped a lady who's using a Barnet Blue
:11:17. > :11:21.Badge. I was just wondering would you be able to call her at home and
:11:22. > :11:25.see if she's at home or if she's out and about? Yeah? RADIO: 'Yeah, two
:11:26. > :11:27.seconds. Stay on the line.' All right brilliant. Yeah, great.
:11:28. > :11:39.They'll soon know whether she's telling the truth. SIREN Finally,
:11:40. > :11:42.one that's got caught! In Croydon, the council has got a fight on its
:11:43. > :11:45.hands. Stephen Sussams is accused of stealing housing benefit, council
:11:46. > :11:59.tax benefit, and of clearing ?17,000 of benefits out of his dead friend's
:12:00. > :12:02.bank account. He's denied it all. We're pleading not guilty to
:12:03. > :12:06.everything. I've spoken to my barrister, they're quite happy that
:12:07. > :12:09.we should plead not guilty, I think we have to plead not guilty because
:12:10. > :12:17.I don't believe I've done anything wrong. Nothing really surprises me
:12:18. > :12:21.in this job. At the end of the day, he's the person who is being put on
:12:22. > :12:25.trial and he has a right to plead not guilty if he feels he's
:12:26. > :12:28.innocent. You know, if my defence barrister can put everything across
:12:29. > :12:33.correctly, which I'm hoping he will be able to...er... ..then I see no
:12:34. > :12:40.reason why I should be found guilty of anything. It is my life that I'm
:12:41. > :12:45.fighting for. It's my freedom, it's my reputation. It's everything
:12:46. > :12:54.you've worked for over the last 40 years. The case will be judged on
:12:55. > :13:00.the evidence that is put forward. Hopefully, I've got a good enough
:13:01. > :13:04.case. But anything can happen in court. It all depends on what
:13:05. > :13:13.happens on the day, really. Andrea has a tense wait before the trial
:13:14. > :13:17.begins for real. She is at home? RADIO: 'She is at home, she does
:13:18. > :13:20.have a badge.' OK. Back outside Harrods, Marcin and Mark have heard
:13:21. > :13:26.back from the office. The woman in the 4x4 can't be picking up her
:13:27. > :13:30.mother-in-law. The badge holder is definitely at home in Barnet. The
:13:31. > :13:36.mother-in-law is 12 miles away. Marcin and Mark were told a lie.
:13:37. > :13:44.Shall we get the car clamped or removed? Let's remove it. They have
:13:45. > :13:52.the car ticketed so it can be towed if she doesn't come back first. We
:13:53. > :13:58.don't know where we stand with Marcin pulling out and stopping the
:13:59. > :14:03.car! Let's try it and see what happens. THEY LAUGH This is high
:14:04. > :14:14.level fraud we're dealing with here. Oh, she's there! She's there! No,
:14:15. > :14:23.you're not taking pictures. Why are you... Excuse me, madam. My
:14:24. > :14:31.mother-in-law is inside the building. Do you know that? Marcin
:14:32. > :14:35.tries to explain to the woman that he knows her mother-in-law is not in
:14:36. > :14:44.Harrods but at home. It's her last chance. Sorry, can you come and
:14:45. > :14:48.speak to us? One second, one second, David. One second, somebody wants to
:14:49. > :15:00.speak to me. One second. No, I don't want to speak to you. It's less
:15:01. > :15:04.about the badge and the offence that she's done and more about how angry
:15:05. > :15:09.she is in the situation and how we need to calm her down and just let
:15:10. > :15:12.her go and get on with it. It's annoying, because you know you've
:15:13. > :15:15.done something wrong, so just hold your hands up. Take your punishment.
:15:16. > :15:20.Take your punishment, basically for trying to commit a fraud and saving
:15:21. > :15:22.yourself, what, ?5? She didn't look like she needed to save an extra ?5,
:15:23. > :15:55.did she? You know? The woman will now have to head to
:15:56. > :15:59.the pound to get her car back. As a nation, we're not good at stopping
:16:00. > :16:05.fraud, and tax fraud is ten times as big as benefit fraud. ?14 billion is
:16:06. > :16:11.lost to people who don't pay their fair share. Teams from Her Majesty's
:16:12. > :16:19.Revenue Customs have the job of clawing that money back. I would
:16:20. > :16:22.like to welcome you all to the briefing for operation Go-Kart. I'm
:16:23. > :16:25.the case manager and silver command for tomorrow. Gold for the day is
:16:26. > :16:27.Andrew McKie, who is also the officer in charge of the
:16:28. > :16:31.investigation. Our communications strategy will be by radio only. I
:16:32. > :16:35.want you to ensure that the two suspects in this case are removed
:16:36. > :16:45.and put into custody as soon as possible. Their targets are two
:16:46. > :16:49.respectable-looking businessmen. Julian Stone runs a string of
:16:50. > :16:55.drycleaners and Nicholas Harris is a builder who's done work for Stone in
:16:56. > :17:00.the past. This all started off with seven invoices coming into local
:17:01. > :17:03.compliance. The invoices we suspect are false, and they're being used by
:17:04. > :17:08.one of the suspects to reduce his liability by about ?435,000. The
:17:09. > :17:11.second suspect has potentially under-declared VAT of nearly
:17:12. > :17:20.?200,000, so we're talking about in excess of ?600,000 for this fraud.
:17:21. > :17:24.Next morning, and it's an early start for the teams. They plan to
:17:25. > :17:31.arrest both of the suspects at the same time. Because these are almost
:17:32. > :17:38.all undercover officers, we've had to disguise most of their
:17:39. > :17:45.identities. Derek Chisholm is used to this kind of work but he still
:17:46. > :17:49.gets tense. In the team that I'm located in we have these probably
:17:50. > :17:53.once a week. There will always be adrenalin. If there's not then it
:17:54. > :17:55.can't be good. You're always nervous, cos you don't know what's
:17:56. > :18:10.going to happen. Confirm address, number 19. Derek's
:18:11. > :18:32.team is looking for the builder, Nicholas Harris. Not sure if the
:18:33. > :18:38.bell's working. Mr Harris? Yeah. Morning, Derek Chisholm, Revenue
:18:39. > :18:43.Customs. I'll just show you my ID. I'm actually here today to arrest
:18:44. > :18:47.you. Why? I will go through that, but do you want to possibly go round
:18:48. > :18:52.the corner here so you're out of sight of everybody? OK, the reason
:18:53. > :18:57.you are being arrested today is on suspicion of fraud. It relates to
:18:58. > :19:00.suspected fraudulent invoices used in the evasion of VAT and
:19:01. > :19:02.Corporation Tax. We'd like to transport you to the police station,
:19:03. > :19:11.please. We pulled out some documents and
:19:12. > :19:16.paperwork relating to Mr Harris and his companies. We've also bought out
:19:17. > :19:23.a laptop that will be examined by forensic analysts at a later date to
:19:24. > :19:27.see if it's of evidential value. That went quite well. Initially it
:19:28. > :19:32.was a bit of a problem in that he wasn't at home. We were lucky to a
:19:33. > :19:36.point just asking questions in the neighbourhood to find out his
:19:37. > :19:40.location. We got him back. Demeanour - calm, therefore my decision was
:19:41. > :19:43.not to handcuff him. We'll take him now down to custody, get him
:19:44. > :19:54.detained, legal advice and, hopefully, the interview under
:19:55. > :20:02.caution. A few miles away, the other team is at Julian Stone's business.
:20:03. > :20:09.I've got a warrant to search the premises from the Magistrates' Court
:20:10. > :20:13.at City of London... Yep. ..which is to search the premises here and any
:20:14. > :20:18.computers, as well. Word of their arrival has spread. Yes, just for
:20:19. > :20:21.your information his accountant has just telephoned the officer manager.
:20:22. > :20:28.She was enquiring how many officers were on the premises and she's on
:20:29. > :20:32.her way, too. To me that would indicate how many people... She's
:20:33. > :20:36.probably teeing up his lawyers. I think one of our guys tried to speak
:20:37. > :20:42.to the accountant, but she hung up before we could speak to her so...
:20:43. > :20:47.Unusual. And it's not long before Mr Stone turns up. I don't want to be
:20:48. > :20:51.filmed. Can we cut the filming, please? HMRC suspect the two are
:20:52. > :20:57.working together - that Nicholas Harris has been sending false
:20:58. > :21:03.invoices to Julian Stone. Well, I did... Yeah, no, I fully appreciate
:21:04. > :21:06.that, Sir, I fully appreciate that. These operations are important. The
:21:07. > :21:09.gap between what is owed and what is collected is huge and adding to the
:21:10. > :21:22.country's growing mountain of debt. For Marcin and Mark, it's round two
:21:23. > :21:26.with the Blue Badge cheat. Tila Feiner, who parked illegally outside
:21:27. > :21:37.Harrods, has turned up at the pound with her mother-in-law. Hiya. Hello.
:21:38. > :21:43.I am fuming! Really? Fuming. She was with me in the store! I said to you
:21:44. > :21:46.I am picking her up. When I came... "She's in Harrods, I'm picking her
:21:47. > :21:50.up," you said. No, I made up, because we've got a wedding. Oh, you
:21:51. > :21:55.made that up? Are you...? Is that what you just said? No, I said I
:21:56. > :21:59.made up with her to pick her up from Harrods. Do you understand what it
:22:00. > :22:03.means? Make up? Make up? To make up is to make an appointment to meet
:22:04. > :22:06.somebody. OK. So, at the time you told us... Yes. ..that she's in
:22:07. > :22:10.Harrods, "I've come to pick her up, I'll be ten minutes." I was in
:22:11. > :22:14.Harrods, I nearly fell down the escalators just now. She was at home
:22:15. > :22:18.- how are you picking her up from Harrods if she's at home? Because I
:22:19. > :22:22.don't know what time she's going to be in Harrods. She might decide to
:22:23. > :22:26.be half-an-hour or an hour later. I don't know what time she decided.
:22:27. > :22:29.You said you came to pick her up. Correct. She is inside Harrods. I
:22:30. > :22:32.didn't say she's inside Harrods. You said, "She's inside, I can bring her
:22:33. > :22:36.here in ten minutes." I made arrangements to meet her. Can you
:22:37. > :22:40.calm down? How can I calm down when my car, my car was towed away...? It
:22:41. > :22:44.was towed because your mother-in-law was at home in Barnet. That's the
:22:45. > :22:46.reason. Do you want to sit down? I'm going to go with your
:22:47. > :22:50.daughter-in-law to the vehicle and we're going to get the disabled
:22:51. > :22:54.badge, OK? Have you got the keys? Yeah. Have you paid yet? No, I'm not
:22:55. > :22:58.going to pay. You're not? No, you're going to release the car. Why should
:22:59. > :23:02.I pay for something that just wasn't right? Why should you do that? No,
:23:03. > :23:05.we're not going to release the car. Why? Simple as that. Because an
:23:06. > :23:08.offence has been committed. We towed it because you had taken a disabled
:23:09. > :23:12.space from somebody who needs the bay. Not you, somebody who needs it.
:23:13. > :23:16.She needs it. She didn't need it, she was at home. We're going to
:23:17. > :23:20.stand out ground. We know that the law is on our side. You can scream
:23:21. > :23:24.and shout all day long or we can sort this out quickly. She finally
:23:25. > :23:28.agrees to pay up. What do I need now? She'll get her car back, but
:23:29. > :23:34.it's not finished. She'll now be charged. Can she come with me? Yeah,
:23:35. > :23:47.I think so. Thank you. Good doing business with you. The moral of the
:23:48. > :23:49.story is don't try and fight the law when the law is called Mitchey and
:23:50. > :24:01.Marcin. First day of the trial, how are you
:24:02. > :24:07.feeling? Yeah, good. It's the start of the Stephen Sussams trial.
:24:08. > :24:12.Confident? I'm a bit breathless at the moment you'll have to wait. He
:24:13. > :24:17.faces charges of fraud amounting to ?32,000, but he's come out fighting.
:24:18. > :24:21.Well, I'm just going to go in there and ask for a little bit more time.
:24:22. > :24:25.We're a little bit stressed. The defendant has pulled a few surprises
:24:26. > :24:33.out the bag, so we've been rushing around quite a lot in the last few
:24:34. > :24:40.days. Stephen Sussams thinks the council's case is flawed. This here,
:24:41. > :24:47.that needs to come out. What the letter? Yep. Right. OK. Because the
:24:48. > :24:50.defence are arguing that the jury shouldn't even be told that he was
:24:51. > :24:55.invited to interview and failed to attend. But he was invited to attend
:24:56. > :24:58.interviews. Yeah. As a professional fraudster you would have an answer
:24:59. > :25:07.to everything, you would try to, um... Get out of taking
:25:08. > :25:10.responsibility for your actions. I'm hoping that they can see this case
:25:11. > :25:20.for what it is. That they're dealing with a professional fraudster.
:25:21. > :25:26.Simple. Will you send me copies? If you'd like, Sir. Sorry? If you'd
:25:27. > :25:29.like, yeah. The case is getting a lot of attention, but he isn't
:25:30. > :25:37.cracking under the pressure. Come in. Stephen Sussams is confident
:25:38. > :25:41.he's innocent and has agreed to speak to us. It's a vindictive
:25:42. > :25:45.prosecution, trying to make an example of someone. I don't think I
:25:46. > :25:51.did anything wrong, or knowingly did anything wrong. "Knowingly" is the
:25:52. > :25:54.key. He says he didn't know that the money he took out of Keith
:25:55. > :26:03.Dickenson's account had come from Croydon Council. It makes you sound
:26:04. > :26:07.like a grave robber, but in point of fact, I mean - I'd quite happily
:26:08. > :26:13.show you the will - I was his sole beneficiary. He was a soul mate, and
:26:14. > :26:18.we'd had so many good times and so much fun over so many years. You
:26:19. > :26:22.know, I can see no real reason why that money shouldn't have been
:26:23. > :26:26.withdrawn and the fact that it was withdrawn after his death... Well,
:26:27. > :26:34.let me tell you, you know, from the moment he died, the bills started
:26:35. > :26:37.coming in. He says he thought the money in the account was Keith's
:26:38. > :26:41.pension, not his benefits, and he blames the council for the mistake.
:26:42. > :26:45.You can see from the papers here, Croydon Council were aware of
:26:46. > :26:54.Keith's death. I told them to stop paying his benefits, and they had
:26:55. > :26:58.stopped paying some of his benefits. And then there's receiving benefits
:26:59. > :27:03.while he ran a posh pub. He thought an employment agency had told the
:27:04. > :27:09.council. I notified the agency that I no longer needed benefits. They
:27:10. > :27:13.told me that they would then deal with it and that all the benefits I
:27:14. > :27:21.was receiving would stop. Um, that didn't happen. The council's case is
:27:22. > :27:32.straightforward. He moved to Devon, but kept the flat and the payments
:27:33. > :27:36.they were giving him. That's cheeky isn't it? Mr Sussams smiling. You
:27:37. > :27:40.think the matter is in court, it's something quite serious. Fighting
:27:41. > :27:48.Stephen Sussams is starting to get to Andrea. It's been an exhausting
:27:49. > :27:52.day. I've been in the witness box for quite a long time and hammering
:27:53. > :27:56.of questions, but right now what I'd like to do is just go home to my
:27:57. > :28:02.family and curl up. End of a day, yeah. Working behind a till at
:28:03. > :28:07.Tesco's doesn't seem so bad right now. And with both sides convinced
:28:08. > :28:21.they're right, things won't get any easier.
:28:22. > :28:27.HMRC have businessman Julian Stone, and builder Nicholas Harris in
:28:28. > :28:36.custody. They're suspected of using fake invoices to dodge ?600,000
:28:37. > :28:40.worth of tax. Nicholas Harris has started to talk and he's denying
:28:41. > :28:48.helping Stone to fake invoices. He's been shown the invoices and he says
:28:49. > :28:51.they're not his. They don't look like anything he would produce. He's
:28:52. > :28:55.admitted that he has done some work for our second guy but they've been
:28:56. > :28:58.really small, it's been really small value stuff and he doesn't recognize
:28:59. > :29:03.any of the values we're talking about on those invoices. So it looks
:29:04. > :29:07.as if we could have been right. But that's pretty much where we're at
:29:08. > :29:12.the moment. OK, well if you let me know what happens with the second
:29:13. > :29:15.set of interviews. Yeah. And then we can decide what decisions we want to
:29:16. > :29:19.make about bailing? All right, as soon as I get any updates, I'll let
:29:20. > :29:24.you know, yeah? OK, that's fine. See you later. It takes a lot of work,
:29:25. > :29:28.but in the end the documents show what both men have been up to. Steve
:29:29. > :29:35.Ferguson and his boss are getting the evidence ready for court. Stone
:29:36. > :29:38.has used these invoices, which we suspect are fake, to reduce the
:29:39. > :29:41.amount of VAT which he should have paid us by about 160k, and his
:29:42. > :29:50.company tax liability by about ?270,000, so we're talking, in
:29:51. > :29:53.essence, of about a ?400,000 fraud. ?400,000 sloshing around his
:29:54. > :29:57.business accounts because of his suspected criminal activity - he's
:29:58. > :30:04.got to get rid of that somehow. If I can show you an example here... The
:30:05. > :30:10.documents suggest Stone has been paying Harris, but the cheques tell
:30:11. > :30:13.a different story. According to these cheque stubs, Stone has paid
:30:14. > :30:22.138 cheques to Harris, but when we looked at the cheques you can see
:30:23. > :30:25.it's made out to Stone's mother. So what he's done is laundered the
:30:26. > :30:31.proceeds of his criminal activity through members of his family. Stone
:30:32. > :30:35.and Harris may not have been working together to dodge VAT, but it turns
:30:36. > :30:38.out they were both at it on their own. Harris has been earning
:30:39. > :30:47.hundreds of thousands of pounds and hiding it from the taxman. Mr Harris
:30:48. > :30:51.has not told us about any of this money coming into his business. He's
:30:52. > :30:55.been generating vast amounts of profit for himself by charging his
:30:56. > :31:01.other customers - including Mr Stone - VAT, and then basically putting it
:31:02. > :31:12.in his pocket. They have enough evidence. Stone and Harris will now
:31:13. > :31:20.be charged. This is the latest manifestation of my mid-life crisis,
:31:21. > :31:22.which seems to be going on forever. Stephen Sussams hasn't been letting
:31:23. > :31:27.the trial get him down, and he's found a cheaper replacement for the
:31:28. > :31:31.Bentley. I bought myself a sports car, and it takes me longer to get
:31:32. > :31:39.in and out than it does to do most journeys. But he's been preparing
:31:40. > :31:42.himself for the worst. What is going to happen is going to happen, so you
:31:43. > :31:46.might just as well... Yeah, all right, you give it your best shot,
:31:47. > :31:50.and you put forward how you feel about different things, but that's
:31:51. > :31:56.as much as you can do. You know, you can't do anymore. Today he'll learn
:31:57. > :32:05.if the jury finds him innocent or guilty. It's a big day for all
:32:06. > :32:08.involved. To date, I haven't lost any cases, I've always... I've got a
:32:09. > :32:13.good, um, prosecution success record. But, at the end of the day,
:32:14. > :32:25.it is up to the jury. What will be will be. That makes me panic! THEY
:32:26. > :32:37.LAUGH I hope this isn't the case you lose. It takes the jury six hours to
:32:38. > :32:43.reach a unanimous verdict. Result! I know! Result, my people, result! I
:32:44. > :32:50.know, I know, I know! He's found guilty on all counts and jailed for
:32:51. > :32:56.a year. The judge wasn't having any of it, was he? Absolutely not. He
:32:57. > :32:59.was not having any of it at all. And he's got a previous conviction, so
:33:00. > :33:03.that's all been... Yeah. For dishonesty, as well. Anyway, my
:33:04. > :33:07.part's done - on to the next case. Over to you! Yes, well, I'll add
:33:08. > :33:12.this to my very large case load. How many years has this taken you? Two
:33:13. > :33:17.years? Two and a half years? This case has taken me two and a half
:33:18. > :33:21.years to bring to this point. It just shows how long these cases can
:33:22. > :33:29.take, there's a lot to it. Zoe Neale now gets involved. It's her job to
:33:30. > :33:33.get the stolen money back. Yeah, but I've got a lot of bits in the
:33:34. > :33:37.background, and I am aware of things that I don't think Mr Sussams knows
:33:38. > :33:41.that I know about. The biggest problem is going to be getting some
:33:42. > :33:45.stuff out of Spain. Yeah. That's the big issue. Well, as you can see,
:33:46. > :33:55.Miss Marple is back on to the next case. See you later. Bye. Stephen
:33:56. > :34:00.Sussams is in jail, and Croydon wants to get back the money he
:34:01. > :34:03.stole. There's not much left in England - the pub and Bentley are
:34:04. > :34:07.long gone. But there's a tip-off that Stephen Sussams had another
:34:08. > :34:11.secret life before he went to Devon. I want to find out what was he doing
:34:12. > :34:22.in Spain, and if there's anything there for the council to claim. Is
:34:23. > :34:27.that really the kind of car to transport a disabled person in? I
:34:28. > :34:33.suppose it's ideal, cos its very low to the ground, easy to get in and
:34:34. > :34:39.out of... It's not what you usually see in a disabled bay - a super car
:34:40. > :34:44.with a Blue Badge in the window. There's not much room for a
:34:45. > :34:50.wheelchair, but... No, no. ..enough room for a walking stick. For a
:34:51. > :34:54.walking stick, exactly. I'm just going to go and have a look at that
:34:55. > :35:00.Badge on display. They reckon the Blue Badge is either fake or stolen.
:35:01. > :35:06.When you see Ferraris parked in disabled bays, it does raise
:35:07. > :35:14.suspicion. Time for a quick call to the council. That badge was actually
:35:15. > :35:19.stolen. So now we need to try and figure out a way of trying to get
:35:20. > :35:25.that Badge back. We need to devise a plan as to how to catch him or her.
:35:26. > :35:30.I think our best bet is to find out who the owner of the car is... Ah,
:35:31. > :35:34.there's two policemen. Excuse me! I work for Kensington Chelsea
:35:35. > :35:39.council. That car there's got a stolen Blue Badge. You can do DVLA
:35:40. > :35:46.checks can't you? Find out who the owner is? We're just trying to see
:35:47. > :35:52.what other information we can get. OK, just bear with me a sec. Thank
:35:53. > :35:57.you. The DVLA say the car belongs to a man called Feroz Gadit. The
:35:58. > :36:01.owners' surname matches up to what the number plate is, as well, it's a
:36:02. > :36:05.private plate on it, so... If we stand here he isn't going to come
:36:06. > :36:09.back to his car. No. They need another tow. We'll call in into the
:36:10. > :36:15.pound, but by the time they get someone down to put a ticket on it
:36:16. > :36:17.he may well have come back and gone. They just hope the tow truck gets
:36:18. > :36:38.here first. I'm in Spain because its seems that
:36:39. > :36:40.Stephen Sussams had a secret life here, and I've come to find out what
:36:41. > :36:51.he was doing. Croydon Council lost ?32,000 to
:36:52. > :37:01.Stephen Sussams' fraud, and now they want it back. They'll try to seize
:37:02. > :37:05.any assets they can find. Now, we've been told that he may have lived in
:37:06. > :37:12.the far south of Spain. We got a journalist who lives here to do some
:37:13. > :37:20.digging. Hi. It's Richard, how's things? Fine, thanks, how are you?
:37:21. > :37:24.Yep, I'm all right, thank you very much. So, you've been busy? What
:37:25. > :37:29.have you managed to find out? I managed to find out he did live
:37:30. > :37:32.here. He did have a life here. Some people knew him - not very many. Not
:37:33. > :37:55.many people actually want to talk about other people, they're quite
:37:56. > :38:05.private here. So how serious was he? The Town Hall can tell me if
:38:06. > :38:11.Sussams' life here was official. So this is living here, this is not
:38:12. > :38:14.casual? No, no, no. This is living here. To go to a hospital here, a
:38:15. > :38:19.social security hospital owned by the state, you need to have this. So
:38:20. > :38:25.this is key to a life here, in this town? Si. So this is really
:38:26. > :38:28.important, because this piece of paper proves that Stephen Sussams
:38:29. > :38:31.had a double life. And, actually, the dates are really important
:38:32. > :38:38.because he applied here in Spain three months after he applied for
:38:39. > :38:47.housing benefit back in the UK. So this is the place? This is it, yeah.
:38:48. > :38:54.But Sussams didn't just live here, he had a business. So this was
:38:55. > :38:59.Stephen Sussams' bar. It was, yes. He ran this place. Yes, he did, and
:39:00. > :39:06.according to people he worked here, he was behind the bar. How long was
:39:07. > :39:18.he here then? I think it was about ten months. He was here from May
:39:19. > :39:21.2008 to February 2009. Whilst he's having that life here, he's got this
:39:22. > :39:24.separate life back in the UK. A house, benefits, different friends.
:39:25. > :39:29.Today this bar is owned by someone else. There's nothing here for
:39:30. > :39:35.Croydon Council to seize. Right, where now? Follow the road around.
:39:36. > :39:42.We track down the people who sold him the bar, Sandra Sharpe and John
:39:43. > :39:49.Patemen. Everything looked... Right and correct. Everything down to his
:39:50. > :39:57.Patek Philippe watch, his Mercedes Benz red top, you know. He went to
:39:58. > :40:03.the bank with you, didn't he? Yeah. Drew out the cash. It was all in
:40:04. > :40:10.hard cash and he gave it you and... So we thought well, that's... That's
:40:11. > :40:13.good. 'But this was deal that quickly ran into trouble.' When did
:40:14. > :40:17.things change then? When it was time and we were getting towards when he
:40:18. > :40:21.had to pay his final amount. He said, "I'm not paying you." I went,
:40:22. > :40:26."Well, OK then, "you're not paying me the money then this is still my
:40:27. > :40:31.bar." Well, basically, in the end, he said no, didn't he? He turned
:40:32. > :40:35.round and said I've worked it out that you owe me money now. So you
:40:36. > :40:38.painted a picture at the beginning when you first met him of Stephen
:40:39. > :40:46.Sussams as a kind of smooth operator. What do you think about
:40:47. > :40:49.him now? Con man. Yeah. Yeah, a professional con man, actually. He
:40:50. > :40:54.is a confidence trickster. And he's good at it. And he's good at it. Con
:40:55. > :41:00.Man. 'The deal became increasingly messy. 'Whatever the truth, the
:41:01. > :41:03.bottom line is Stephen Sussams 'was in business here in Spain while
:41:04. > :41:09.claiming benefits in Croydon.' So, we know about his business, but
:41:10. > :41:33.where did he live? This little track here? Mm-hmm. Up here? Yeah. This is
:41:34. > :41:35.the road? Yeah. You wouldn't even see this, would you? Without
:41:36. > :41:39.somebody helping you, you'd just pass this by? Sussams' secret home
:41:40. > :41:56.is hard to find. We need to get up here. You see this opposite? So this
:41:57. > :42:06.is it here? That's it. So what is this then? Well, this was his house.
:42:07. > :42:10.Did he buy this then? He bought it between the end of 2006 and the
:42:11. > :42:19.beginning of 2007. He'd lived here for between two and a half and three
:42:20. > :42:24.years. But it was trashed recently. 180,000 Euros for a house on a
:42:25. > :42:35.mountain. A council tenant from Croydon with a double life in the
:42:36. > :42:39.Sun. You can see that this was a really beautiful place. The pool is
:42:40. > :42:45.lovely, there's the barbecue area. It's all done to a pretty good
:42:46. > :42:50.standard. 'His neighbours thought he was a wealthy man. What kind of
:42:51. > :42:54.place is this? It's a lovely place to come, cos you can be away from
:42:55. > :42:58.everybody, nobody can see you, you can mix or not mix. So everybody out
:42:59. > :43:04.here, really, came here because you can just be yourself and be in your
:43:05. > :43:08.own little space. 'And everyone here knew Stephen Sussams.' What sort of
:43:09. > :43:13.background did he seem to have? He's bought his own villa, opened up a
:43:14. > :43:17.business, what was his background? I don't know about his background, but
:43:18. > :43:20.I thought he was quite well-to-do. I mean, he had a Mercedes convertible,
:43:21. > :43:24.which was a bit incongruous in the rambla, you know, but I thought he
:43:25. > :43:29.was a man with money who's trying to do something in the town. And if I
:43:30. > :43:33.told you that during that period he was actually having a kind of double
:43:34. > :43:39.life, in the UK he was claiming benefits? That doesn't go with the
:43:40. > :43:44.Mercedes, does it? Not really, I wouldn't have thought that. He
:43:45. > :43:47.didn't look the type that would be. Yeah, he was, he was claiming
:43:48. > :43:53.incapacity benefit, housing benefit... I'm quite surprised that
:43:54. > :43:57.you've said that, actually. Why? Well, I would have thought from the
:43:58. > :44:00.way he dressed and carried himself and everything else he was a man of
:44:01. > :44:04.means. Obviously somebody else's means! There's no doubt that this
:44:05. > :44:10.was Sussams' house. But something clearly went very wrong. I think
:44:11. > :44:13.when he left it, he left virtually everything in there, according to
:44:14. > :44:16.neighbours. And then, somehow or other, somebody got in there and
:44:17. > :44:23.took everything, trashed the whole place But to go and just leave
:44:24. > :44:27.everything in there was a bit weird. This place has now been seized by a
:44:28. > :44:28.Spanish bank. We found his secret mountain hideaway, but there's
:44:29. > :45:01.nothing left for Croydon to recover. Let's go shopping. Yeah, ?75,000...
:45:02. > :45:06.Marcin and Mark have been checking out fast cars, and they've found the
:45:07. > :45:15.make with the stolen Blue Badge. 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, 199 mph. That's
:45:16. > :45:19.all I'm going to say. They got the car, but they didn't get the Blue
:45:20. > :45:24.Badge. The owner spotted what was going on and took drastic action.
:45:25. > :45:30.The removals truck arrived just after 1800 hours. The owner or
:45:31. > :45:33.driver of the vehicle then came back to the vehicle at 1825 hours and
:45:34. > :45:37.jumped up on to the truck, opened the car and removed the stolen
:45:38. > :45:40.disabled badge. It appears to me that he got flustered, got a bit
:45:41. > :45:48.worried, thought, "There's stolen badge on display. "I'll then get rid
:45:49. > :45:53.of that so there's no evidence." Of course, we've got loads of pictures
:45:54. > :45:58.of it on display. And there's something else in those pictures
:45:59. > :46:02.that makes them suspicious. The vehicle did have a zero cost road
:46:03. > :46:05.tax license. Either him or somebody else is getting free road fund
:46:06. > :46:12.license because of a disability. How is he able to jump up on to the back
:46:13. > :46:21.of a removals truck... Exactly. ..if he's so disabled that he can barely
:46:22. > :46:25.walk? Yeah. Mark and Marcin have seen enough. It's down to the police
:46:26. > :46:29.to confront the owner of the car - Feroz Gadit. But when he turns up at
:46:30. > :46:38.the car pound, he manages to talk his way out of being arrested. The
:46:39. > :46:42.sergeant can't believe his nerve. We were waiting for him to arrive, and
:46:43. > :46:44.he arrived there with his mother and another disabled badge which he
:46:45. > :46:49.showed the authorities down there, and as a result of that he managed
:46:50. > :46:52.to convince the staff that that was the badge that should have been in
:46:53. > :46:56.the car. The badge that was displayed was one he actually had
:46:57. > :46:59.found, and in fact it was all a legitimate mistake. So because of
:47:00. > :47:04.all the evidence he may have fooled them with, he was able to get away
:47:05. > :47:09.with it on that occasion. Sergeant Plummer thinks it's time for another
:47:10. > :47:16.chat with Feroz Gadit. Right we've all got our Met vests and things,
:47:17. > :47:19.have we? Brilliant, brilliant. For him to be using this badge when he
:47:20. > :47:23.can quite clearly afford to be paying his way when he parks his
:47:24. > :47:27.car, I think it's a kick in the face, really, for people that want
:47:28. > :47:30.to use that for their legitimate purposes where they are disabled.
:47:31. > :47:35.The best case scenario is going to be that he is there, cos I'd like to
:47:36. > :47:39.see the look on his face when we do knock on his door, and we do go in,
:47:40. > :47:43.and we do search his home. And hopefully he'll realise that this
:47:44. > :47:50.sort of thing is going to have an impact on him and his family. Do you
:47:51. > :47:59.live here at all? I do. You do? What's your name, Sir? Feroz Gadit.
:48:00. > :48:03.Feroz Gadit? Correct. OK. Officers are going to need to speak to you,
:48:04. > :48:07.Feroz, in a few moment, OK? Regarding? What it concerns is a
:48:08. > :48:11.disabled badge that you had in your car. OK. A few months ago, so when
:48:12. > :48:14.the officer comes out he'll speak to you about that and ask you a few
:48:15. > :48:17.questions around that, as well. You're going to be arrested for
:48:18. > :48:21.handling stolen goods, you're also going to be arrested for fraud and
:48:22. > :48:24.misrepresentation OK? You don't have to say anything, but it may harm
:48:25. > :48:27.your defence if you do not mention something when questioned something
:48:28. > :48:31.you later rely on in court, anything you do say may be given in evidence.
:48:32. > :48:34.OK, do you understand? I explained to them the whole scenario, I
:48:35. > :48:37.explained exactly what happened and I explained to them, you know, the,
:48:38. > :48:41.the circumstances in which I actually... I got that er that
:48:42. > :48:45.badge. I'm now going to tell you what's gong to happen next. We've
:48:46. > :48:48.got a warrant here to search your house, so we're going to be
:48:49. > :48:51.searching your premises and the cars. Having a nicked Blue Badge
:48:52. > :49:00.counts as handling stolen goods. It's a serious offence. They think
:49:01. > :49:07.the badge is most likely to be in the Audi on the drive. Got the keys
:49:08. > :49:10.at work, I believe, so I'll have to get keys sent down here, so someone
:49:11. > :49:15.can wait here and wait until the keys come over. How can the car be
:49:16. > :49:23.driven back here if the keys aren't here? So they look for the keys to
:49:24. > :49:31.the Audi, and it doesn't take long. Where's your spare set? Is that a
:49:32. > :49:37.spare set? Yeah. Mr Gadit changes his story. I have got it, that
:49:38. > :49:49.badge. Oh, where is it? I've got it, it's in the car. That's a Badge
:49:50. > :49:52.that's valid until 2014, so that would have been an extra couple of
:49:53. > :49:56.years, practically, of him parking for free We had another look inside
:49:57. > :50:08.it and we found the original one we was looking for, but we've also
:50:09. > :50:12.found another one. OK, right. I'm going to further arrest you now, OK?
:50:13. > :50:15.For being in possession of this, I'm going to further arrest you for
:50:16. > :50:21.handling stolen goods and false representation. And who is this
:50:22. > :50:25.turning up in the Bentley now? He's turning up at speed, he's just
:50:26. > :50:27.pulled up and I believe he may be another member of the family. That's
:50:28. > :50:32.four cars they've got. Your brother's been arrested for being in
:50:33. > :50:39.possession of stolen property. What property? The disabled badge. What
:50:40. > :50:45.disabled badge? He can discuss that with you later. Where is he? He's on
:50:46. > :50:50.his way to the police station. I'm, not going to have any more further
:50:51. > :50:53.to say to you about that for the moment. If you'd like to go and
:50:54. > :51:01.speak to your mother, cos she was quite upset. Why are you filming me?
:51:02. > :51:05.Feroz Gadit is shipped off to the station. I feel very, very pleased
:51:06. > :51:09.with how its gone. Totally, totally pleased. To turn up there and find
:51:10. > :51:13.that badge that he said had gone, to discover a second disabled badge, as
:51:14. > :51:16.well... This man's got no excuse at all, absolutely no excuse. It's very
:51:17. > :51:21.pleasing to have the result that we've got today. Gadit was fined
:51:22. > :51:24.?515 for handling stolen goods, but not charged with possession of the
:51:25. > :51:27.second Blue Badge. Julian Stone was convicted of ?130,000 of tax fraud,
:51:28. > :51:35.and sentenced to 16 months, suspended. Nicholas Harris was found
:51:36. > :51:43.to have fiddled ?59,000 and sentenced to six months. Both men
:51:44. > :51:49.were ordered to repay the cash. My mother-in-law's inside the building,
:51:50. > :51:54.do you know that? Tila Feiner was convicted of misusing a Blue Badge
:51:55. > :52:05.and was fined ?300. But what about Stephen Sussams? He's served six
:52:06. > :52:09.months, and now he's out. Well, this feels a little bit weird, cos the
:52:10. > :52:13.last time I was here I was chasing Stephen Sussams across this car park
:52:14. > :52:17.to try and grab a word with him and talk about the benefits he was
:52:18. > :52:21.claiming. That was a year ago, he's been to jail since then, and now he
:52:22. > :52:26.wants to have a word with me and have a proper sit down chat. So it
:52:27. > :52:36.feels odd, but I'm going to go and meet him. Mr Sussams? Come in, yes.
:52:37. > :52:43.Hi, I'm Richard Bilton, pleased to meet you, how are you? I'm good,
:52:44. > :52:47.come in. Thanks for agreeing to see me This is what happens when you do
:52:48. > :52:52.things properly. Well, in fairness, Mr Sussams, we did try and talk to
:52:53. > :52:56.you properly before, didn't we? No, you didn't. I bear you absolutely no
:52:57. > :52:59.malice or bad feeling whatsoever. In fact when you've finished the
:53:00. > :53:04.interview I'll even make you a cup of coffee. Great, that's very kind
:53:05. > :53:08.of you. Could do with one. I suppose what the viewer might think is you
:53:09. > :53:10.got send down for stealing 20-odd thousand pounds from the public
:53:11. > :53:15.purse, and you were claiming benefits that you weren't entitled
:53:16. > :53:20.to. Do you regret any of that? Do I regret it? Be more specific. Well,
:53:21. > :53:24.you were claiming money that you oughtn't to have had - that's why
:53:25. > :53:28.you went to jail. Yeah, I was claiming money that I shouldn't have
:53:29. > :53:31.had but I wasn't doing it knowingly. Was it my intention to deliberately
:53:32. > :53:34.take money from the public purse, as you say? And the answer to that is,
:53:35. > :53:38.categorically, no. Categorically, no, I did not. The fact that I
:53:39. > :53:42.received monies from the public purse which were paid incorrectly...
:53:43. > :53:48.Did I do that? Yes I did. Did I spend those monies? Yes, I
:53:49. > :53:51.redistributed them, yes, I did. You're an intelligent man. I can't
:53:52. > :53:56.believe that you didn't know that money was a benefit. That's just my
:53:57. > :54:01.opinion, and think that's probably what the jury thought, as well,
:54:02. > :54:04.but... I can have no complaints, because I've said on many occasions,
:54:05. > :54:14.ignorance is no defence... And that's what it was. How come you had
:54:15. > :54:18.this other life in Spain? Well, it wasn't another life, was it? Well,
:54:19. > :54:24.you bought a business, you bought a house. This did overlap with some of
:54:25. > :54:27.your benefit claims. No it doesn't. Your incapacity benefit claim
:54:28. > :54:32.mirrors the time that you had the lease on the bar. It's about the
:54:33. > :54:36.same time. Look, you're talking about something which is five years
:54:37. > :54:39.ago, since when I've had a heart attack, two heart operations and I'm
:54:40. > :54:45.waiting for a third. I can't give you dates. It never seems to be your
:54:46. > :54:49.fault. It wasn't your fault when you were taking from the public purse,
:54:50. > :54:53.it wasn't even your fault when you went to jail. One of the summaries
:54:54. > :54:57.was that you are a smooth talker, you can talk your way out of lots
:54:58. > :55:00.and lots of situations. What would you say to people watching this?
:55:01. > :55:04.What would they understand about you? What should they understand
:55:05. > :55:11.about me? I mean... I would let them make their own mind up. You and I
:55:12. > :55:14.have met now for the first time, we've had another frank exchange but
:55:15. > :55:19.at least we've got to talk properly. If all that you say is true, then
:55:20. > :55:24.you must be feel a very maligned character. Richard, it doesn't
:55:25. > :55:29.matter. Well, it does matter a bit, you went to jail... But hang on a
:55:30. > :55:33.second. Look, you're talking about the past again. The important people
:55:34. > :55:37.in my life, they know me well enough and they know the sort of person
:55:38. > :55:53.that I am. But I can only tell you what I know and as I understand it.
:55:54. > :55:57.Right, thank you. Right, sugar? Well, that was very odd, cos he
:55:58. > :56:00.makes a good case, you know. He a plausible guy, he's articulate. I'm
:56:01. > :56:04.still not sure I believe him, and I think he can't explain Spain away.
:56:05. > :56:07.So I think things are complicated, they're always complicated, but I
:56:08. > :56:11.think at the end of the day Stephen Sussams is a clever bloke and I
:56:12. > :56:18.think he knows what he's doing. And Croydon Council doesn't believe
:56:19. > :56:24.Sussams, either. His conviction for fraud was a breach of his tenancy
:56:25. > :56:25.agreement. They want his flat back. Crime has not paid for Stephen
:56:26. > :56:45.Sussams. Next time in On The Fiddle, how
:56:46. > :56:56.fraudsters exploit a weak system to make benefit claims across Europe...
:56:57. > :56:59.You want to pay it back? Yes, OK. ..and the smugglers who use fake
:57:00. > :57:04.boarding passes to buy millions of duty free fags. They want to ban me
:57:05. > :57:06.from telephone boxes for five years. They must think I'm Micky Bin Laden,
:57:07. > :57:11.not Micky Pitt.