0:00:04 > 0:00:07BIRD CAWS
0:00:22 > 0:00:24'I need help to prove my innocence.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27'If you look at the evidence, there's
0:00:27 > 0:00:28'no forensics that links me to the case.'
0:00:30 > 0:00:34Have you ever talked explicitly about whether he did it?
0:00:34 > 0:00:35It's just impossible, really.
0:00:35 > 0:00:39It's just not in his nature to do something so awful.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45He's had to walk down here, meet her... Yes.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49Kill her, put her in the boot. Yeah.
0:00:49 > 0:00:50It doesn't seem at all likely to me.
0:00:52 > 0:00:56The 9:30 CCTV in which the police said was your car coming out,
0:00:56 > 0:00:58coming out onto the main road.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00'I can guarantee that that's not my car.'
0:01:01 > 0:01:05There's a big difference in my view between a Shogun and a Range Rover.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09Could this be the defendant's vehicle?
0:01:09 > 0:01:11I really don't know.
0:01:11 > 0:01:16WOMAN: 'I know Paula cos she was my best friend.'
0:01:16 > 0:01:18So what did she tell you about this other man?
0:01:18 > 0:01:21She was definitely worried about something.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Something was wrong and I could feel it.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28I'll just tell you one more time, if there is something which is
0:01:28 > 0:01:30significantly different to what you've told me,
0:01:30 > 0:01:33I would have real difficulty with carrying on with your case.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36'I did not murder Paula.'
0:02:04 > 0:02:06Where are we in the investigation?
0:02:06 > 0:02:10The prosecution say the CCTV evidence put Roger Kearney
0:02:10 > 0:02:12near the scene of the crime.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16There is still, however, an image of an unidentifiable 4x4 car which
0:02:16 > 0:02:21Roger says is his. If true, that could actually support his alibi.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23Secondly, a friend of Paula's,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26a very good long-standing friend of hers,
0:02:26 > 0:02:29is adamant that Paula was having a relationship with somebody
0:02:29 > 0:02:32other than Roger Kearney at the same time.
0:02:32 > 0:02:36And, importantly, that Paula was really scared of this man.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42Now, I don't know how reliable that witness was.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45She didn't say anything like this at the time of the trial and I
0:02:45 > 0:02:48haven't found anyone else who says that Paula was having another
0:02:48 > 0:02:49secret relationship.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54So it's not proof, it's just hearsay.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58What I've got to go and do now, I think,
0:02:58 > 0:03:01is look at some of the other significant evidence in the case.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07I want to look at the way Roger behaved in the days after
0:03:07 > 0:03:08Paula went missing.
0:03:09 > 0:03:13'Mrs Poolton's car was found 11 days after she'd disappeared.'
0:03:13 > 0:03:16REPORTER: 'The court heard there was no forensic evidence, no blood,
0:03:16 > 0:03:19'no hair, no fingerprints linking Mr Kearney with the murder.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22'And nobody saw him murder Mrs Poolton.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25'It wasn't long before police discovered
0:03:25 > 0:03:26'she'd been having an affair.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28'They interviewed Mr Kearney.
0:03:28 > 0:03:30'On several occasions in that interview
0:03:30 > 0:03:32'he referred to her in the past tense.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35'And after she'd disappeared,
0:03:35 > 0:03:37'his calls to her mobile phone soon ended.'
0:03:40 > 0:03:42What's happening today?
0:03:42 > 0:03:43Er, Roger's about to call me.
0:03:43 > 0:03:47I want to ask him, particularly about his contact with Paula
0:03:47 > 0:03:49when she was missing.
0:03:49 > 0:03:54He didn't text her to say, "Where are you? Are you all right?"
0:03:54 > 0:03:56You know, she was missing for 11 days and yet
0:03:56 > 0:03:58no texts from him asking where she was.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01So I want to ask him about that.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04And the second thing I want to ask him about is how
0:04:04 > 0:04:06he referred to Paula during the police interviews,
0:04:06 > 0:04:11because he kept referring to her, um, in the past tense.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14And again, this is at the time before her body was actually
0:04:14 > 0:04:17found, which suggests he knows she's dead already.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19So I want to ask him about that.
0:04:21 > 0:04:23TELEPHONE RINGS
0:04:25 > 0:04:27Hello, Inside Justice.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29'Hello, Louise, it's Roger.'
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Hello, Roger. How are you? 'I'm fine, thank you.'
0:04:32 > 0:04:34When have we got till? 'Till five past, unfortunately.' Oh, OK.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37All right, I shall cut to the chase really quickly, then.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39What I wanted to do was ask you about what happened after
0:04:39 > 0:04:42Paula went missing on the Friday night.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45Can you tell me when you first found out she was missing?
0:04:47 > 0:04:50'Well, she didn't turn up for work on Saturday.' Right.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53'At the football stadium.
0:04:53 > 0:04:58'And then I tried to phone her. Got no response.'
0:04:58 > 0:05:00But she was missing now at this stage.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02Surely, you were worried about her?
0:05:02 > 0:05:04'Not particularly.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06'Not at that stage, no.' Why not?
0:05:06 > 0:05:09'Because I thought she was... out drinking.'
0:05:09 > 0:05:11But for three months, you speak to her on the phone
0:05:11 > 0:05:13pretty much every day. 'Yep.'
0:05:13 > 0:05:17And then she goes missing for, for five days or so, and
0:05:17 > 0:05:21in that time you only send one text and you forward some jokey e-mails.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23No phone calls, nothing saying, "Are you OK?"
0:05:23 > 0:05:26Can you see why that looks suspicious to people? 'Yeah.
0:05:26 > 0:05:31'Well, like I said, I did try to phone her.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34'I don't know whether her phone was not working or...
0:05:34 > 0:05:36'Well, obviously it wasn't working. But I didn't know whether
0:05:36 > 0:05:38'she'd lost her phone or what.'
0:05:38 > 0:05:40But then, why not send her another message?
0:05:40 > 0:05:43You don't call her or send her a message again,
0:05:43 > 0:05:44even after a whole week.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47I mean, she wasn't found for 11 days, was she? 'Yeah, I know.'
0:05:47 > 0:05:49So you were intimate and close with her,
0:05:49 > 0:05:52you say you cared about her and yet even after a week,
0:05:52 > 0:05:55you weren't sending her any messages or trying to make
0:05:55 > 0:05:58any contact, just saying, "Are you all right?
0:05:58 > 0:05:59"Everybody's worried here."
0:06:00 > 0:06:03That is odd. That is very strange.
0:06:03 > 0:06:08'Do you think so? Hmm. Well, I was annoyed with her...
0:06:08 > 0:06:10'..for getting me involved.
0:06:10 > 0:06:12'When the police turned up and said she was missing,
0:06:12 > 0:06:15'I was angry with her. Because, er...
0:06:17 > 0:06:20'Basically having to disclose the fact that we'd
0:06:20 > 0:06:22'been having an...an affair.'
0:06:22 > 0:06:25But when the police interview you, they talk to you about things
0:06:25 > 0:06:29and you keep on giving them past-tense answers. 'Yep.'
0:06:29 > 0:06:32And I've been through all that interview and you keep saying
0:06:32 > 0:06:36things like you say, "I used to see her down the gym.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39"I know she was quite keen on the two of us.
0:06:39 > 0:06:42"I think she wanted me to move in. I did like Paula.
0:06:42 > 0:06:43"I did like Paula a lot."
0:06:43 > 0:06:46You are not saying, "I think she's a great woman, I like her now."
0:06:46 > 0:06:48It's all past tense. Why did you do that?
0:06:48 > 0:06:50Nobody thought she was dead at that stage,
0:06:50 > 0:06:52apart from you in these interviews.
0:06:52 > 0:06:53'Well...
0:06:55 > 0:06:59'Yeah, I'm not sure... what the questions were.'
0:06:59 > 0:07:01I've got the questions. 'Yeah.'
0:07:01 > 0:07:02I thought you would say to me,
0:07:02 > 0:07:04"I don't know what the hell was put to me."
0:07:04 > 0:07:09They say to you, "Tell me about Paula and what you know about her."
0:07:09 > 0:07:11"Tell me everything you know."
0:07:11 > 0:07:13And directly as a response to that,
0:07:13 > 0:07:15you talk about her in the past tense. 'Yeah.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18'And I said to them, because they said that to me,
0:07:18 > 0:07:20'you know, I said yes, because I was angry.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23'As far as I was concerned, the relationship was over.' Right.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27'I'm sorry, but I haven't done nowt.' OK.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30'One thing I wanted to say to you from what you said from the
0:07:30 > 0:07:34'last time we spoke, was the fact that...' Yeah.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37'..you are concerned that if it came out
0:07:37 > 0:07:39'that I actually killed Paula...
0:07:41 > 0:07:44'..sometime in the future, that it would make you look bad.'
0:07:44 > 0:07:47It would. 'Yeah, I understand that.
0:07:47 > 0:07:51'If you actually feel that I possibly could have done,
0:07:51 > 0:07:52'I don't...'
0:07:54 > 0:07:57'I wouldn't blame you if you dropped my case at all.
0:07:57 > 0:07:59'But I assure you...
0:08:01 > 0:08:06'I don't think you'll find any evidence to support the police
0:08:06 > 0:08:09'and I promise you that I did not kill Paula.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12'That's all I can say.' OK.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15You're absolutely... OK, you're not wavering from that at all.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18Are you in any way encouraging to me to drop your case?
0:08:18 > 0:08:20'No. Only if you feel that way.'
0:08:20 > 0:08:23No, I'm asking you what you are saying to me, Roger.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26'I would like you to carry on.' You want me to carry on with the case?
0:08:26 > 0:08:28Are you in... Are you trying to find a way
0:08:28 > 0:08:32to tell me that you were involved in Paula's murder? 'No, no.
0:08:32 > 0:08:34'No, but I'm just saying, if you think that...
0:08:34 > 0:08:37'Look, I must go cos the officer is getting a bit...'
0:08:37 > 0:08:39OK. All right.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42OK, but you're also telling me that you did not kill her?
0:08:42 > 0:08:43'No, I did not.' OK.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46All right, Roger. 'I'm supposed to be banged up at ten past.' OK.
0:08:46 > 0:08:47All right.
0:08:51 > 0:08:56That was a particularly funny end, difficult end.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59Because I thought for one moment that he was going to tell
0:08:59 > 0:09:02me that he had... Actually, he was involved in the murder.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07And then that... But he then immediately he went on to say,
0:09:07 > 0:09:11"No, I did not have anything to do with killing her at all."
0:09:11 > 0:09:14I don't know what to make of what he just said.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16I-I... I don't know.
0:09:16 > 0:09:17I don't know, I don't know.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20"If...if it was to come out that I killed Paula."
0:09:20 > 0:09:24You know, that's an odd phrase isn't it, for someone to use,
0:09:24 > 0:09:26if they're saying they haven't done it?
0:09:26 > 0:09:27Why would he use language like that?
0:09:27 > 0:09:29Why doesn't he just say, "I didn't do it"?
0:09:29 > 0:09:32"I didn't do it, there's never going to be any evidence that I
0:09:32 > 0:09:33"killed Paula because it doesn't exist.
0:09:33 > 0:09:36"Because I didn't kill her, so therefore there can't be evidence."
0:09:36 > 0:09:37That, I'd understand, that, I can relate to.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39That, I'd understand, that, I can relate to.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42That's, you know, a nice, clear way of talking. But he doesn't, does he?
0:09:42 > 0:09:46He sort of dances around things in a way that I find unsettling.
0:09:51 > 0:09:54I think there are lots of unanswered questions about the case.
0:09:56 > 0:10:01I think that there must be evidence of who killed Paula and,
0:10:01 > 0:10:06you know, really good, solid, objective evidence of who
0:10:06 > 0:10:07carried out this horrible murder,
0:10:07 > 0:10:11and that evidence currently hasn't seen the light of day.
0:10:21 > 0:10:22So what are you going to do next?
0:10:22 > 0:10:24Now we're going to go and look at
0:10:24 > 0:10:26some of the forensic elements of the case because,
0:10:26 > 0:10:28for me, there's some aspects to it that just don't add up.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34The prosecution say that he got into the car next to her and
0:10:34 > 0:10:38stabbed her repeatedly while she was sitting in the driver's seat.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41But when I look at the crime-scene photos, there's hardly any
0:10:41 > 0:10:45blood on the front seats, which is where they said she was killed.
0:10:45 > 0:10:48And I just don't understand how you can be stabbed seven times,
0:10:48 > 0:10:51and there'd be no blood, or very little blood left
0:10:51 > 0:10:54in the front of the car. So I need to understand that.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58And in the boot of the car there's a strange thing.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00There's a pool of blood found on a travel rug.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04And that doesn't fit with how her body was found.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08So I think I need some information on what the postmortem report
0:11:08 > 0:11:10can tell us about the murder.
0:11:35 > 0:11:39Most of my cases, over the last 40 years, have been for the police.
0:11:41 > 0:11:44You have to go into a case with an open mind,
0:11:44 > 0:11:47because you have to think of how that person was killed,
0:11:47 > 0:11:50what the circumstances were, will they fit with somebody's
0:11:50 > 0:11:54account of how they were killed, or the number of injuries,
0:11:54 > 0:11:58where they're placed, how deep they are - all that kind of thing
0:11:58 > 0:12:00can tell you a great deal about what has happened.
0:12:02 > 0:12:04A dead body, it can give up a lot of secrets.
0:12:05 > 0:12:10OK, so can we just walk through to begin with, then? OK. Yeah, thanks.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13The prosecution case then was she was in the driver's seat,
0:12:13 > 0:12:17the attacker was sitting next to her. Does that all fit?
0:12:17 > 0:12:18Oh, yes, it does, yeah, yeah.
0:12:19 > 0:12:24Are there any other scenarios that could also fit with the evidence?
0:12:24 > 0:12:27Well, there are other possibilities.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29She has seven stab wounds to the actual torso.
0:12:29 > 0:12:33So they thought this one was the fatal wound, is that right?
0:12:33 > 0:12:37It has gone into the left lung, cut through one of the major
0:12:37 > 0:12:40arteries of the lung, the pulmonary artery.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42So it's done a lot of damage.
0:12:46 > 0:12:47Yeah.
0:12:47 > 0:12:51It was quite wide because it went in at an angle from left to right. OK.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53So how would you be...? That would be...
0:12:53 > 0:12:56That would be about here, like this, this kind of direction. OK.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59And what happened was it went deep into the lung.
0:12:59 > 0:13:00Her breathing would have been laboured,
0:13:00 > 0:13:02she would may well have been coughing.
0:13:02 > 0:13:04There would have been some blood around
0:13:04 > 0:13:06which had come from her mouth.
0:13:07 > 0:13:09I keep being struck by the fact that
0:13:09 > 0:13:11there isn't very much blood in the front at all.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14No, there wasn't blood there, you're absolutely right.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18Nothing particularly that seems to be saying, it's inside the
0:13:18 > 0:13:21front of this car where the attack is actually taking place.
0:13:21 > 0:13:26If we're just basing this purely on the actual injuries,
0:13:26 > 0:13:29there's nothing to say that those injuries could not have been
0:13:29 > 0:13:32done outside the car.
0:13:32 > 0:13:36Most probably in a standing position rather than a sitting position.
0:13:36 > 0:13:37Most probably in a standing position rather than a sitting position.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39Standing outside the car.
0:13:39 > 0:13:41Oh, really? Do the wounds lead you to believe it's more likely
0:13:41 > 0:13:44the person was standing, the victim was standing?
0:13:44 > 0:13:46They would both have had to have been standing, yup.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58The prosecution have always said that he got into her car and
0:13:58 > 0:14:01stabbed her repeatedly while sitting in the front seat.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04But our pathologist said that actually both the attacker
0:14:04 > 0:14:08and the victim might have been standing during the murder.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11That can only happen outside the car.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13It's only a possibility, but if that was the case,
0:14:13 > 0:14:17it seems highly unlikely to me that it happened on that particular road.
0:14:17 > 0:14:19That's a really busy road.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22No-one saw her being attacked there, no-one heard her scream.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28I need to go and talk to a blood-pattern analysis expert.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32She's been working on lots of tests,
0:14:32 > 0:14:35trying to work out whether or not Paula Poolton was definitely
0:14:35 > 0:14:38murdered in the car, that's the key question.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10The pattern of bloodstains allows us to interpret and to define
0:15:10 > 0:15:13how that blood came to be at a crime scene.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18The blood can almost give a narrative as to what went on.
0:15:19 > 0:15:24If I sustain an injury, for example, to my neck, then blood
0:15:24 > 0:15:28may spurt from my body and that will create a very distinctive pattern.
0:15:30 > 0:15:32My role is not to determine whether
0:15:32 > 0:15:35an individual is guilty or not guilty,
0:15:35 > 0:15:39but to be able to present a very sort of balanced view
0:15:39 > 0:15:41on the forensic science.
0:15:41 > 0:15:45It's just over there, look. So that is the same make and model, then?
0:15:45 > 0:15:48It is, yeah. Brilliant. Peugeot 206. Yeah.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53OK.
0:15:53 > 0:15:57The scientist at the time described that the interior of the car
0:15:57 > 0:15:59was examined for blood staining and she says that
0:15:59 > 0:16:02"moderate bloodstain was detected
0:16:02 > 0:16:05"on the inside surface of the window, handle and door
0:16:05 > 0:16:06"of the driver's side.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11"Small areas of blood staining were found on the driver's seat,
0:16:11 > 0:16:14"the indicator, the steering wheel."
0:16:14 > 0:16:17So, it seems to me, looking at the photographs on where blood is,
0:16:17 > 0:16:19there doesn't seem to be an awful lot of it,
0:16:19 > 0:16:21apart from those bits that you've mentioned. That's right.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24Is that surprising? Not to me, really.
0:16:24 > 0:16:29The absence of... of heavy blood staining, let's say,
0:16:29 > 0:16:32doesn't mean that she wasn't attacked here. OK.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34Because she was wearing very heavy clothing,
0:16:34 > 0:16:36she had multiple layers of clothing.
0:16:36 > 0:16:40So it's entirely possible that she could have sustained those
0:16:40 > 0:16:43injuries without enormous bloodshed.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47So do you think she was killed in the front of the car?
0:16:47 > 0:16:52Not necessarily. None of it is described as being spatter.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55Right. So it's indicative really of there being, sort of,
0:16:55 > 0:16:58contact blood staining throughout.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01"Small areas of blood staining were found on the driver's seat,
0:17:01 > 0:17:04"the indicator, the steering wheel,
0:17:04 > 0:17:07"the bottom edge of the gear stick, the dashboard on the
0:17:07 > 0:17:12"passenger side and the outside lower edge of the glove box."
0:17:12 > 0:17:15These are all surfaces that one would naturally touch,
0:17:15 > 0:17:18if kind of moving around in the car.
0:17:18 > 0:17:22Or driving it. Or driving it. Precisely.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25So is the fact that blood was found on the steering wheel
0:17:25 > 0:17:28suggesting that somebody wet with blood has driven the car?
0:17:28 > 0:17:29It could be.
0:17:29 > 0:17:33Is that likely then, do you think, to be the attacker?
0:17:33 > 0:17:34It could very well be.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38It's certainly something that should be considered and it's
0:17:38 > 0:17:40something that we can't entirely exclude.
0:17:44 > 0:17:48What about the blood on the travel rug that's in the boot?
0:17:48 > 0:17:52Have you got any thoughts on that? I've got a photograph.
0:17:52 > 0:17:56So, it will just give us a kind of representation of items
0:17:56 > 0:17:57as they were in the boot.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01And her position was kind of on her left... Yes, laying foetal.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03..in a foetal sort of position in the boot.
0:18:09 > 0:18:14There was heavy blood staining found on the travel rug.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16And there was blood on her face,
0:18:16 > 0:18:19which I've depicted onto this mannequin's head.
0:18:19 > 0:18:22And what we see here is her head has been in contact with
0:18:22 > 0:18:25something heavily soaked with blood. Right.
0:18:25 > 0:18:30And my view is that it fits pretty well with the staining that
0:18:30 > 0:18:33was found on the blanket. Right.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36If I was to put you in the boot and I sort of scooped you up with
0:18:36 > 0:18:41my arms behind your knees and behind your shoulder and put you in,
0:18:41 > 0:18:42you'd obviously be quite heavy.
0:18:42 > 0:18:46But I almost might sort of roll you in. Yes.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49Which would satisfy... That would fit, wouldn't it? ..this position.
0:18:51 > 0:18:53How does she then end up completely flipped over
0:18:53 > 0:18:54in that foetal position?
0:18:54 > 0:19:02All she needs to do is to move or be moved onto her...left side. Right.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04But it could potentially be that the car's
0:19:04 > 0:19:08moved forward and caused her to rock back.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10As the car lurches forward,
0:19:10 > 0:19:14it creates that backward motion and she's tipped across.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16But, again, I can't say with any certainty either one,
0:19:16 > 0:19:18but I'm just trying to express
0:19:18 > 0:19:21that all of these things are possibles. Yes.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Well, the prosecution have always said
0:19:42 > 0:19:47the murder took place here, immediately after she went missing.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50But now that we have two scientists who say that actually things
0:19:50 > 0:19:51could be quite different.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57The pathologist says that she could have been killed while she
0:19:57 > 0:19:59was standing up, outside the car.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08The blood-pattern analysis expert said that the blood on the
0:20:08 > 0:20:12steering wheel and the gear stick might suggest the car was driven by
0:20:12 > 0:20:14the killer after Paula was stabbed.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20So, the question is, does all this forensic evidence mean
0:20:20 > 0:20:22that she was killed somewhere else?
0:20:27 > 0:20:31Did the killer put Paula's body in the boot,
0:20:31 > 0:20:33drive to Duncan Road with bloody hands,
0:20:33 > 0:20:35then dump the car and walk away?
0:20:38 > 0:20:39That's a possibility.
0:20:42 > 0:20:44In fact, that's exactly what people thought
0:20:44 > 0:20:45when she was first discovered.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51REPORTER: Paula Poolton's car was discovered yesterday afternoon by
0:20:51 > 0:20:53a routine police patrol car.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58Paula Poolton went missing on Friday, October 17.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02There have been no other sightings of her or her car until yesterday.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Detectives need to know where Paula's car has been
0:21:05 > 0:21:07since Friday the 17th.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11They also need to know how long it had been parked in Duncan Road.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16The prosecution brought forward witnesses who said that
0:21:16 > 0:21:22they saw Paula's car parked here for every day of the 11 days that
0:21:22 > 0:21:23Paula was missing.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26But then there were other witnesses, they said they were sure
0:21:26 > 0:21:30the street was empty on certain days after she went missing.
0:21:31 > 0:21:35How long the car is at the train station is really key,
0:21:35 > 0:21:39because the entire prosecution case revolves around Paula being
0:21:39 > 0:21:43murdered on this road sometime before ten o'clock
0:21:43 > 0:21:45on the Friday night when she went missing.
0:21:45 > 0:21:46The police agree that after that,
0:21:46 > 0:21:50Roger is either at work or he's not in the area.
0:21:50 > 0:21:51He can't have done the murder.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55Who do you believe?
0:21:55 > 0:21:57Well, the prosecution brought forward another piece of
0:21:57 > 0:21:59evidence at trial.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04And they say it would prove she was killed here and that the car
0:22:04 > 0:22:06never moved after the murder.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12Right...
0:22:13 > 0:22:16So...
0:22:16 > 0:22:20How do we know that the murder happened at the station
0:22:20 > 0:22:22where her body was found in the boot?
0:22:22 > 0:22:25According to the prosecution, she's been murdered in the front
0:22:25 > 0:22:27of the car and she's brought round the back of the car.
0:22:27 > 0:22:31And somewhere down low, she's dropped and then some blood
0:22:31 > 0:22:35came off of her and flicked onto this wheel.
0:22:35 > 0:22:37So there's blood, here.
0:22:37 > 0:22:42And this place here - one, two - points across that wheel.
0:22:42 > 0:22:45And also in the wheel arch, here.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48I'll do a really basic diagram.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52So this is your wheel arch, right, and here's your car tyre.
0:22:52 > 0:22:56So the experts found there was blood here and here and here.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58So that's all in a nice straight line.
0:22:58 > 0:23:03Being like this - all lining up with that fixed wheel arch -
0:23:03 > 0:23:06told the experts that the car had not moved
0:23:06 > 0:23:08since the blood got on the tyre.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11But if you look at the local news footage
0:23:11 > 0:23:12which was filmed at the time,
0:23:12 > 0:23:14I think you can see a problem with that.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22REPORTER: Paula Poolton's black Peugeot car, her body apparently
0:23:22 > 0:23:26discovered in the boot, has been hidden by a white forensic tent.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29Now the black Peugeot is on the point of being taken away.
0:23:29 > 0:23:33Forensic officers have been conducting one last search of
0:23:33 > 0:23:37the immediate area before this road is finally reopened.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42The car had been put on the tow truck
0:23:42 > 0:23:44and once it was up on that tow truck,
0:23:44 > 0:23:49that's when the experts spotted that there was blood on this tyre.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53The recovery truck guy said, "The handbrake was on,
0:23:53 > 0:23:57"the wheels did not turn, they merely slid along the ground."
0:24:00 > 0:24:04I don't think what the recovery truck driver said - about the
0:24:04 > 0:24:06wheels only sliding and not moving - is right.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16Hello, Louisa! Nice to see you. Yes, and you.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18Should I go straight in? Yes.
0:24:18 > 0:24:19Thank you very much, cheers.
0:24:27 > 0:24:31One...one particular area is all to do with whether or not
0:24:31 > 0:24:34Paula was killed at the scene,
0:24:34 > 0:24:36whether it all happened there
0:24:36 > 0:24:39at the station road, as the police have always said and then
0:24:39 > 0:24:42immediately put in the boot and left there for the whole 11 days.
0:24:42 > 0:24:46And that made me, that sort of prompted us to look then at what the
0:24:46 > 0:24:48evidence was like on the wheel of the car.
0:24:48 > 0:24:52Because the blood on the wheel, that totally nails it for everybody.
0:24:52 > 0:24:53Right, OK.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57That's all good evidence and the all fits really well, providing the car
0:24:57 > 0:24:59wheel was in the same position on the road
0:24:59 > 0:25:00as it was on the truck.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03Now, this is going to require some concentration,
0:25:03 > 0:25:04because it is quite hard to see.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09So this is the vehicle being recovered.
0:25:22 > 0:25:23The wheel moved.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27Did I see that or...?
0:25:27 > 0:25:29Definitely moving.
0:25:32 > 0:25:34It's mov...
0:25:36 > 0:25:38Oh, my God!
0:25:45 > 0:25:49Well, the wheel that we can see that's moving is the front wheel.
0:25:49 > 0:25:50Is that the one that had the blood?
0:25:50 > 0:25:53No, the one that had the blood on it is the rear wheel.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55If the rear wheel... Didn't the recovery guys say
0:25:55 > 0:25:57that none of the wheels moved?
0:25:57 > 0:26:01The recovery truck guy says, the wheels - plural -
0:26:01 > 0:26:02weren't turning.
0:26:02 > 0:26:06The wheels - plural - therefore were dragged along the ground and
0:26:06 > 0:26:09they were very certain about that, and they said in their statement
0:26:09 > 0:26:11they talk about how there is no movement whatsoever.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16They're not being dragged. They're moving.
0:26:19 > 0:26:20(Oh, my God.)
0:26:22 > 0:26:23It's a big thing.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29If the wheels moved... In the process of putting it on the
0:26:29 > 0:26:33tow truck... There is no guarantee that it... All lines up.
0:26:33 > 0:26:36The murder could have taken place anywhere. Anywhere.
0:26:40 > 0:26:41Come on, then.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49So this is potentially really important.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52But I've only seen the front wheels moving
0:26:52 > 0:26:55and they said in court that the handbrake was on.
0:26:55 > 0:26:57So I need to go and do some tests.
0:26:57 > 0:26:59I've got to go and find out whether the back wheels would move too.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06I'm trying to find out, on a Peugeot 206,
0:27:06 > 0:27:09what happens when you've got the handbrake on, to the wheels.
0:27:09 > 0:27:13What happens to the front wheels? OK. First of all. Do they turn?
0:27:13 > 0:27:16The front wheels will turn on that particular model, yes, because
0:27:16 > 0:27:19of the handbrake operates the rear wheels and the rear wheels only. OK.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21And for the back wheels, if the handbrake is on?
0:27:21 > 0:27:24If the handbrake's on and if the handbrake's efficient
0:27:24 > 0:27:26and working correctly, then the wheels will lock in
0:27:26 > 0:27:28position and can't move with the handbrake being on. OK.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33What if the back of the vehicle is lifted to go onto
0:27:33 > 0:27:35a recovery vehicle?
0:27:36 > 0:27:39If you watch the vehicle, it will start to lift.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42So we winch her up, what's going to start to happen,
0:27:42 > 0:27:43the vehicle will start to pull up, pull up.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46I don't really want to pull it much further than that. Oh, sorry!
0:27:46 > 0:27:48Can you do that again?
0:27:48 > 0:27:51What I want to know is, does this turn at all?
0:27:54 > 0:27:55We'll start pulling it.
0:27:55 > 0:27:57We start pulling it. You know?
0:27:57 > 0:27:59And then it starts dragging.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01Right, and then it moved a tiny bit there, didn't it?
0:28:01 > 0:28:02And if I drop the suspension down,
0:28:02 > 0:28:04you'll see it will go back to normal.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07So I've not actually rotated the wheel,
0:28:07 > 0:28:08I'm pulling the suspension up.
0:28:08 > 0:28:10But it hasn't gone back exactly.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13Because that started off like that, didn't it? It did drag a little bit.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15It started off straight and then dragged a little bit. Not much.
0:28:15 > 0:28:20Not much. But it did a bit. Yeah. So, I mean, we'll go again.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24So it looks to me as if, now we've done that,
0:28:24 > 0:28:28as if there was some movement with it, then it comes back...
0:28:29 > 0:28:31..pretty close to being in line. Pretty close. Yep.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45Well, that's disappointing.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48That would have been a massive breakthrough for us on the case.
0:28:49 > 0:28:52You know, there's already been a huge police investigation already,
0:28:52 > 0:28:56so to try and come up with something entirely new is really hard.
0:28:58 > 0:29:02But we've just got to keep on going.
0:29:04 > 0:29:06We're going to look for the next piece of evidence
0:29:06 > 0:29:08and we're going to see where it takes us.
0:29:21 > 0:29:22MESSAGE ALERT
0:29:27 > 0:29:28How interesting.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30I've had a text.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37This... So, I've had an anonymous text from somebody
0:29:37 > 0:29:41who says that you can, and I quote it, "attest
0:29:41 > 0:29:45"to Kearney's vile, volcanic and uncontrolled temper.
0:29:45 > 0:29:49"Kearney is an extremely unpleasant individual under the velvet cloak.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53"Try not to be his next female victim - professionally or otherwise!"
0:29:56 > 0:29:57I don't know who this is from.
0:30:06 > 0:30:08TELEPHONE RINGS
0:30:11 > 0:30:13Hello?
0:30:13 > 0:30:15Hello, Louise, it's Roger. Hello, Roger.
0:30:16 > 0:30:19So, I've been receiving texts... Yes.
0:30:19 > 0:30:23..from somebody anonymously, as they can attest "to Kearney's vile,
0:30:23 > 0:30:26"volcanic and uncontrolled temper." Yes.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29This is a very specific thing this texter is telling me. Anything...?
0:30:29 > 0:30:33No. Think hard, cos if I hear it from them and I don't hear it
0:30:33 > 0:30:36from you that's going to, that's going to alarm me.
0:30:36 > 0:30:38Is there anything you think that they might tell me
0:30:38 > 0:30:43about, that would explain why...? I cannot imagine any situation...
0:30:43 > 0:30:46the way that's suggested. OK.
0:30:46 > 0:30:48Are you sure? Yeah.
0:30:49 > 0:30:50Let me tell you the last bit of it.
0:30:50 > 0:30:55"Kearney is an extremely unpleasant individual under the velvet cloak.
0:30:55 > 0:30:59"Try not to be his next female victim - professionally or otherwise."
0:30:59 > 0:31:01ROGER LAUGHS
0:31:01 > 0:31:02INDISTINCT
0:31:02 > 0:31:05What do you think about that? What do I think about that? Yeah.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08I think it's a load of rubbish. The whole lot. It's a load of rubbish.
0:31:08 > 0:31:14Somebody obviously doesn't like me and is obviously trying to, um...
0:31:14 > 0:31:17put a guy.... Kibosh on the investigation.
0:31:17 > 0:31:19Why would they do that?
0:31:19 > 0:31:20Cos they don't like me.
0:31:23 > 0:31:26The one with Paula wasn't the first affair, was it?
0:31:26 > 0:31:30You don't, I don't want you to name names, but you had had
0:31:30 > 0:31:33an affair before that, hadn't you? No. No? No.
0:31:34 > 0:31:38I'm thinking of you having an affair with somebody
0:31:38 > 0:31:40while you were with Kell.
0:31:40 > 0:31:44Not... Only a year or so before you started the affair with Paula.
0:31:44 > 0:31:47Not affair, I haven't, no, I haven't had an affair.
0:31:47 > 0:31:51You said... I was friends with, er...
0:31:51 > 0:31:53with, er...
0:31:53 > 0:31:54women.
0:31:54 > 0:31:56Yeah, no, you told me about that before,
0:31:56 > 0:31:59but not sexual relationships with women...
0:31:59 > 0:32:04Yeah. But... No I've not, I've not had any sexual relationships with any women.
0:32:04 > 0:32:08You told the police you did. Did I? You did. Oh, hang on, yeah.
0:32:08 > 0:32:13Er, yes, I did, sorry. You, but... Er, ooh, what was her name?
0:32:15 > 0:32:18So, are you now saying you did have sex with someone?
0:32:18 > 0:32:20Yes, I did, yes, sorry. Yeah.
0:32:20 > 0:32:24Well, how could you not remember that, Roger? Because, er...
0:32:24 > 0:32:26I don't know, no idea.
0:32:26 > 0:32:28Er, I've forgotten about her.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31Just, like, it obviously didn't happen. But...
0:32:31 > 0:32:33There wasn't a relationship.
0:32:33 > 0:32:37It was like, er, just a couple of times I saw her.
0:32:37 > 0:32:40Yeah, I've forgotten all about her. Blimey.
0:32:40 > 0:32:44Are there any, any issues with, about your,
0:32:44 > 0:32:48about any temper or violence or anything that you are ashamed of
0:32:48 > 0:32:51that I'm going to hear from somebody else? No.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54Are you sure? Because you're answering me very quickly, just like you did
0:32:54 > 0:32:56when you said, "No, I haven't had any other affairs."
0:32:59 > 0:33:02I'm not a brilliant man. I know I had two affairs.
0:33:03 > 0:33:06You might think badly of me for that,
0:33:06 > 0:33:08but I am not a violent person.
0:33:10 > 0:33:13You know, if you'd said to me, no, I haven't had any affairs... Well...
0:33:13 > 0:33:16..and then I hadn't, just let me finish, if you'd said that to
0:33:16 > 0:33:19me, as you just have done, and then I found out from somebody else
0:33:19 > 0:33:23you'd had an affair, I would think, take a very dim view of that. Yes.
0:33:23 > 0:33:26Tell me now if there's anybody that I'm going to hear something
0:33:26 > 0:33:29bad from, and if you think of anything over the next few days
0:33:29 > 0:33:31while you're sitting in your cell on your own,
0:33:31 > 0:33:33then you need to be straight with me, cos I'm going to hear it,
0:33:33 > 0:33:36I'm going to find it, I just need to know it from you, if you want
0:33:36 > 0:33:39me not to have a very bad view of it, whatever it is. Er...
0:33:39 > 0:33:43no, I don't think you're going to find anything. Well, I know you...
0:33:43 > 0:33:44Cos I'm not that sort of person.
0:33:44 > 0:33:47The reasons why people have affairs are none of my business,
0:33:47 > 0:33:50and, you know, I don't need to hear any justification why you did...
0:33:50 > 0:33:52I'm not trying to justify it...
0:33:52 > 0:33:53No, but all I'm interested in
0:33:53 > 0:33:55is whether or not you're being straight with me.
0:33:57 > 0:34:00It's horrible when you push somebody and then the more you,
0:34:00 > 0:34:03then you sort of push a little bit and then you've,
0:34:03 > 0:34:06they finally start giving you something back, that just...
0:34:06 > 0:34:09That really worries me, but I think, to be fair,
0:34:09 > 0:34:14I don't know why on earth he would've lied about that to me,
0:34:14 > 0:34:17knowing that he's already admitted it to the police.
0:34:17 > 0:34:21I mean, come on. He knows I've got the police interviews, so...
0:34:21 > 0:34:24It's just an issue for me in terms of,
0:34:24 > 0:34:29is he trying to be clever about what he's telling me and what he's not?
0:34:29 > 0:34:31And is he trying to dupe me?
0:34:38 > 0:34:40REPORTER: Roger Kearney told the court
0:34:40 > 0:34:43he had an affair with Mrs Poolton because he thought she wanted
0:34:43 > 0:34:46a bit of fun and that he went along with it.
0:34:46 > 0:34:49Nigel Pascoe QC told the jury
0:34:49 > 0:34:53they may find Roger Kearney's conduct unattractive.
0:34:53 > 0:34:56He said, "There's a word sometimes used, 'love rat'."
0:34:56 > 0:35:00But, he added, "There's a world of difference between
0:35:00 > 0:35:02"a court of morals and a court of law,
0:35:02 > 0:35:06"between having an affair with a man's wife and killing."
0:35:14 > 0:35:17Are you worried that Roger might be lying to you?
0:35:17 > 0:35:19Oh, he could well be, absolutely.
0:35:19 > 0:35:24I mean, people have lied in the past and they will again, I'm sure.
0:35:24 > 0:35:27If I find out that somebody has lied,
0:35:27 > 0:35:31then I would just drop the case immediately, that's the golden rule.
0:35:36 > 0:35:38I have said to him right from the very start,
0:35:38 > 0:35:41I'll follow the evidence wherever it goes.
0:35:41 > 0:35:44If that shows that he's innocent, good.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48If it shows that he's completely guilty, then so be it.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50You know, I'll follow the evidence.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52I'll keep going until I get to the truth.
0:35:55 > 0:35:58REPORTER: It's eight months since 40-year-old Paula Poolton was found
0:35:58 > 0:36:01stabbed to death in the boot of her own car.
0:36:03 > 0:36:06Police divers search for clues to catch a killer,
0:36:07 > 0:36:10picking out items as small as cigarette lighters,
0:36:10 > 0:36:14hoping that clues lie hidden beneath these quiet waters.
0:36:14 > 0:36:17In particular, they're looking for Paula's car keys,
0:36:17 > 0:36:20her mobile phone and one of her flip-flops.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27It's strange there's some crucial evidence was never,
0:36:27 > 0:36:28ever found in this case.
0:36:28 > 0:36:30They never found her mobile phone
0:36:30 > 0:36:32and they never even found the murder weapon.
0:36:32 > 0:36:37But the anonymous texter said that I will find out
0:36:37 > 0:36:40that Roger Kearney could've burned evidence.
0:36:40 > 0:36:44He says in the text that it's a bonfire night
0:36:44 > 0:36:48that Roger Kearney went to and the allegation is that Roger Kearney...
0:36:51 > 0:36:56..got rid of evidence in the white- hot braziers at this bonfire night.
0:36:58 > 0:36:59I need to
0:36:59 > 0:37:02find the green space where the bonfire could've been held
0:37:02 > 0:37:04and I need to find Pete The Trees.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09I've absolutely, literally, no idea who Pete The Trees is.
0:37:12 > 0:37:17Can you tell me... I'm looking for somebody called Pete The Trees.
0:37:17 > 0:37:19Come round, I'll find out for you. Will you?
0:37:19 > 0:37:23I don't know if you can help me. This is going to sound a bit odd.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26I'm trying to find somebody who's called Pete The Trees,
0:37:26 > 0:37:30who apparently is somewhere here on Stoneham Lanes?
0:37:30 > 0:37:34Outside Stoneham Lakes is a tree, like. He cuts trees.
0:37:34 > 0:37:37Possibly to do with a fishing club or a diving club...?
0:37:37 > 0:37:39Or you had the Christmas tree man. Right.
0:37:39 > 0:37:41That was my mate down the road, so...
0:37:41 > 0:37:43OK. Well, I'll go and check it out. We fish up there.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46OK. Me and my mate fish up there. OK, all right. All right, thanks.
0:37:46 > 0:37:48Thanks a lot. Cheers.
0:37:53 > 0:37:56So, what are you looking for now? Church.
0:37:57 > 0:37:58Is that it?
0:37:59 > 0:38:03Gosh, I'd never have come down here, would I, if I hadn't spoken to him?
0:38:10 > 0:38:13It's all making, you know, it all fits.
0:38:13 > 0:38:15Oh, here we go.
0:38:15 > 0:38:16"Private."
0:38:16 > 0:38:19"Warning, covert CCTV in operation."
0:38:24 > 0:38:26Private land. Oh, it's all private.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52Go... Oh! Hello!
0:38:52 > 0:38:55Are you by any chance Pete? Yeah.
0:38:55 > 0:38:59Everybody seems to know me as Pete The Tree.
0:38:59 > 0:39:01You know, I just don't know why.
0:39:01 > 0:39:04I'm doing an investigation about a murder case.
0:39:04 > 0:39:08A woman was killed and she was found in the boot of her car. Was it...
0:39:10 > 0:39:13..er, near a railway? Exactly.
0:39:13 > 0:39:16Swanwick. I remember that, yeah. Yeah. I remember that.
0:39:16 > 0:39:19I got an anonymous text who said,
0:39:19 > 0:39:22"You should go and speak to Pete The Trees,
0:39:22 > 0:39:26"to see how easy it might have been to completely incinerate the missing
0:39:26 > 0:39:29"physical evidence in the white-hot braziers
0:39:29 > 0:39:32"of his annual fishing club bonfire..."
0:39:32 > 0:39:35The knife, you know, that was used in the murder...
0:39:35 > 0:39:38Well, I would've found that, wouldn't I, when I clear up?
0:39:38 > 0:39:41I'd have found bits and pieces like that, anything metal.
0:39:41 > 0:39:43It's strange, because there's such a lot of detail in it.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46I can't...I can't see anything going on here,
0:39:46 > 0:39:50cos I'm here from when it starts till when the fire goes out.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53He was called Roger Kearney.
0:39:53 > 0:39:55Roger, Roger. Roger who?
0:39:55 > 0:39:58Kearney, or Keern-ey, Kurn-ey.
0:39:58 > 0:40:00Let me show you. I just need to do two things.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02I need to find a picture of him...
0:40:02 > 0:40:05I might know his face. Here he is.
0:40:09 > 0:40:12I don't recall seeing him at the barbecue.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16Has there ever been anybody acting strangely, suspiciously?
0:40:16 > 0:40:20Has anybody ever spoken about somebody, was a bit odd?
0:40:21 > 0:40:22No.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24All right. Thank you. Goodbye, then...
0:40:24 > 0:40:27I'm so pleased to have met you, thank you. All right.
0:40:27 > 0:40:28Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41Anonymous text has really wasted my time.
0:40:41 > 0:40:44Everything that I've checked out doesn't stand up, doesn't go anywhere at all.
0:40:44 > 0:40:47I think it's just vicious gossip from somebody
0:40:47 > 0:40:50who is trying to be meddling.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53So, that's the end of it.
0:40:56 > 0:40:57So, what now?
0:40:57 > 0:41:01I really don't know whether Roger is innocent or guilty,
0:41:01 > 0:41:05but I do think that after looking again at all of the evidence,
0:41:05 > 0:41:09there are really strong reasons for the judicial system to look at
0:41:09 > 0:41:12this case again, but getting that to happen is not going to be easy.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17The only way you can get back to the Court of Appeal again
0:41:17 > 0:41:22is to go through the Criminal Cases Review Commission, the CCRC.
0:41:22 > 0:41:26You need to try and convince the CCRC that there's merit in the case.
0:41:33 > 0:41:37We've been referred to as a safety net, as the backstop,
0:41:37 > 0:41:40as the last opportunity, as it were,
0:41:40 > 0:41:42to get a case back to the Court of Appeal.
0:41:46 > 0:41:50The CCRC receives about 1,500 cases per year.
0:41:51 > 0:41:57We refer approximately 33 cases for a new appeal.
0:41:57 > 0:42:00The case has of course been through a jury of 12 people,
0:42:00 > 0:42:02who have decided upon guilt,
0:42:02 > 0:42:05so inevitably, coming to the commission,
0:42:05 > 0:42:07there has got to be new material.
0:42:07 > 0:42:11Now, that is a difficult hurdle to cross over.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14It is crucial that occurs.
0:42:14 > 0:42:18The role of organisations such as charities is hugely important.
0:42:18 > 0:42:23However, they've got to present us with logical reasons
0:42:23 > 0:42:26for referring the case to the Court of Appeal.
0:42:26 > 0:42:29Well, if there is nothing new...
0:42:29 > 0:42:32then the Court of Appeal aren't going to change their decision.
0:42:32 > 0:42:34Courts don't like overturning convictions.
0:42:34 > 0:42:36It's difficult for them to do so.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39So you have to find something that's legally new.
0:42:47 > 0:42:50Thank you very much. Thank you very much for being here, everybody.
0:42:50 > 0:42:53So, our advisory panel meeting this afternoon is to look
0:42:53 > 0:42:55specifically at the case of Roger Kearney.
0:43:05 > 0:43:07It would be really great if the main aim today
0:43:07 > 0:43:10is to go through the forensic evidence
0:43:10 > 0:43:12and to see what possibilities there are for us now
0:43:12 > 0:43:14in reviewing this case.
0:43:16 > 0:43:19If you see something on a photograph and you think...
0:43:19 > 0:43:22something occurs to you of what could be done,
0:43:22 > 0:43:24or might be done, can you just let me know?
0:43:26 > 0:43:29Definitely the tapings. I really, really like the tapings.
0:43:29 > 0:43:33I would've thought that it would be worth looking at those.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36This is the picture, by the way, of the tapings, so...
0:43:36 > 0:43:40So, these tapings were taken for the purpose of looking for fibres.
0:43:40 > 0:43:43But obviously if you stick tape onto something and take it off,
0:43:43 > 0:43:45you don't just pick up fibres with it,
0:43:45 > 0:43:48you'll pick up biological material, potentially.
0:43:48 > 0:43:49DNA? Yeah.
0:43:49 > 0:43:53There have been samples recovered from
0:43:53 > 0:43:56the back area of the knees of her trousers,
0:43:56 > 0:43:59under the arms of the coat, which are...
0:43:59 > 0:44:02You know, if I was going to lift somebody into a car,
0:44:02 > 0:44:04I would put my arm behind the knees
0:44:04 > 0:44:07and around the shoulders and try, try and get them in there,
0:44:07 > 0:44:11so that seems to me a very proper place to look.
0:44:11 > 0:44:14So, that DNA from the perpetrator
0:44:14 > 0:44:19is actually still happily sitting on those tapings.
0:44:19 > 0:44:22Whatever that was on there will be...
0:44:22 > 0:44:23On those tapes? Yes. Yes.
0:44:25 > 0:44:27The carrier bag.
0:44:27 > 0:44:30We wanted to have another look at that.
0:44:30 > 0:44:33This is the carrier bag then which was found in the boot
0:44:33 > 0:44:34underneath the victim's body.
0:44:36 > 0:44:39She'd been shopping at Tesco's, we know, just before she disappeared.
0:44:39 > 0:44:41Tracey, can you talk us through...?
0:44:41 > 0:44:44You've done some work on this. Talk us through what you've found.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46It's wet blood deposited on...
0:44:47 > 0:44:49And we think that there's some sort of
0:44:49 > 0:44:51detail in there that's from a male.
0:44:51 > 0:44:53I think it would be worth finding out who that male was.
0:44:53 > 0:44:56Detail in area five, which is the one that you were discussing,
0:44:56 > 0:44:59was formed through a combination of wet blood on the hand
0:44:59 > 0:45:03and hand into wet blood already on the carrier bag,
0:45:03 > 0:45:06so it's a deposition of blood from the hand.
0:45:06 > 0:45:09A bloodstained hand, which is then put onto the surface.
0:45:09 > 0:45:11That's their opinion, yes.
0:45:11 > 0:45:16They were able to say, definitively, not Roger Kearney's.
0:45:16 > 0:45:19There's a finger mark on there that's from somebody else.
0:45:19 > 0:45:22Does that potentially tell us who the person is?
0:45:22 > 0:45:25If it's wet blood on somebody's finger
0:45:25 > 0:45:26and that's been placed on the bag,
0:45:26 > 0:45:29that's somebody that interacted with the bag
0:45:29 > 0:45:30after the victim's been injured.
0:45:30 > 0:45:34I don't suppose any Y-chromosome testing has been done,
0:45:34 > 0:45:38which would be important, to try and pick up any male contact.
0:45:38 > 0:45:41Could that be done in 2008? That's when this...
0:45:41 > 0:45:43Was that being done? No, they weren't doing it.
0:45:43 > 0:45:46They wouldn't have done it.
0:45:46 > 0:45:48They're only just starting to do it now,
0:45:48 > 0:45:50so that would certainly be worth looking at.
0:45:50 > 0:45:52That is a priority.
0:45:52 > 0:45:55Your Tesco carrier bag is number one. Number two... Tapings.
0:45:55 > 0:45:59Tapings, all the body tapings. All those body tapings.
0:46:14 > 0:46:18So there's a partial fingerprint in blood on the carrier bag.
0:46:19 > 0:46:22The carrier bag that was bought by the victim not long before
0:46:22 > 0:46:24the last known minutes of her life.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31So, we could have a murderer with blood on their hands,
0:46:31 > 0:46:33who's touched that bag
0:46:33 > 0:46:37and now we have the technology to identify that person.
0:46:41 > 0:46:44So, what I want to do now is to find out whether Roger wants that
0:46:44 > 0:46:48work done, or if he's going to start coming up with excuses.
0:46:48 > 0:46:50It's a final test, really, for him.
0:46:52 > 0:46:54So, I need to find out whether he's willing to pay
0:46:54 > 0:46:56a lab to do this work.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59Then I'll find out whether or not he wants the truth to come out.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02If he doesn't, for me, that's the end of it.
0:47:06 > 0:47:08TELEPHONE RINGS
0:47:09 > 0:47:12Hello? Hello, it's Roger again.
0:47:12 > 0:47:15Hello, Roger, thank you very much for calling again.
0:47:15 > 0:47:18There is some potentially hopeful news.
0:47:18 > 0:47:21There was a fingerprint that went into blood on that carrier bag
0:47:21 > 0:47:24that was found... Yeah. ..with Paula's body. Yeah.
0:47:24 > 0:47:26So, that's the next step -
0:47:26 > 0:47:29make sure that all the possible forensic work can be done, that is done.
0:47:29 > 0:47:31You want everything done, don't you, Roger? Yes.
0:47:31 > 0:47:33Absolutely. OK.
0:47:34 > 0:47:38Yeah, um... I'm quite happy to help pay towards...
0:47:38 > 0:47:40what I can. Good.
0:47:40 > 0:47:43And what we're always, always doing is just trying to find
0:47:43 > 0:47:46the identity of the killer. I'm not looking for evidence to clear you.
0:47:46 > 0:47:49You know, that's not the way I go at it.
0:47:49 > 0:47:52I go at it looking at, I just want evidence of who has done this.
0:47:52 > 0:47:53Yeah, absolutely. That's what I...
0:47:53 > 0:47:55So, I'm not asking closed questions.
0:47:55 > 0:47:57I'm looking to identify the murderer
0:47:57 > 0:48:00and that's what you're prepared to fund, is it? Yes. Good.
0:48:00 > 0:48:03OK, Roger, all right. So, I didn't do it, so...
0:48:03 > 0:48:06Yes, if I can prove that...
0:48:06 > 0:48:08that somebody else done it...
0:48:08 > 0:48:12even if they don't get somebody else for it,
0:48:12 > 0:48:16but the evidence, proof, you know, shows that I wasn't involved,
0:48:16 > 0:48:19I'm quite happy to fund it. OK.
0:48:31 > 0:48:32Hello, Ann!
0:48:34 > 0:48:37Nice to see you again. Hello. Thank you so much for coming up.
0:48:37 > 0:48:39Not at all, it's a pleasure.
0:48:49 > 0:48:52Oh, thanks very much for, for coming in today, you know,
0:48:52 > 0:48:54coming up to Birmingham for this today. It's a pleasure.
0:48:54 > 0:48:58It's brilliant of you to give your time and expertise to the case.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11Good luck. Yes. Hope you find your answers. Thank you.
0:49:11 > 0:49:12Thanks very much. Bye-bye.
0:49:15 > 0:49:18It is a cold day in Birmingham, but it's an exciting day
0:49:18 > 0:49:22because we've finally got access to the forensic files from the time.
0:49:26 > 0:49:29Is there enough material left to find out categorically
0:49:29 > 0:49:33whether or not Roger Kearney is the murderer or not?
0:49:59 > 0:50:04So, Ann, have you been able to find out any information about
0:50:04 > 0:50:07the one-to-one tapings? They appear to have been destroyed.
0:50:07 > 0:50:09Unfortunately.
0:50:09 > 0:50:11They've been destroyed.
0:50:13 > 0:50:16So those original tapings, the ones that we were sort of
0:50:16 > 0:50:20calling the eyewitness, if you like, the person had actually put...
0:50:20 > 0:50:24They've been destroyed? They seem to have been destroyed, yes.
0:50:26 > 0:50:29Is this, is that categorical? Is that absolutely definite?
0:50:29 > 0:50:32As far as I've been able to establish, yes, it is.
0:50:32 > 0:50:35And that's something you've learnt today? Yes, it is, yes.
0:50:37 > 0:50:39It doesn't look as though we will have access to those.
0:50:39 > 0:50:44In a murder case? They've definitely gone. Who owns those?
0:50:44 > 0:50:46Well, they're police exhibits.
0:50:46 > 0:50:51Maybe the police can give a fuller answer or an explanation.
0:50:51 > 0:50:55I mean, don't the police retain them? I'm afraid I can't answer that.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57Well... But this is a murder case, though.
0:50:57 > 0:50:59Why would exhibits have been destroyed?
0:50:59 > 0:51:04Well, I've no idea what the police policy is on exhibits.
0:51:04 > 0:51:06Do we know what's happened to the carrier bag? No.
0:51:06 > 0:51:10Presumably that would be a police exhibit, too. Yes. Yes.
0:51:10 > 0:51:12As would the clothing, everything.
0:51:12 > 0:51:15The handbag, erm,
0:51:15 > 0:51:16the car tapings...
0:51:17 > 0:51:19..they would all be police exhibits.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24So we could be in a position where all of those key exhibits...
0:51:24 > 0:51:25Are no longer in existence.
0:51:25 > 0:51:29..that would hold the answer to who the murderer is, have been destroyed. Yes, yes.
0:51:44 > 0:51:45Thanks so much for seeing me.
0:51:45 > 0:51:49It's a bit of an emergency. OK. Right.
0:51:49 > 0:51:53So, Ann asked the question, "Where are these tapings now?",
0:51:53 > 0:51:55hoping to do more work,
0:51:55 > 0:51:57and was told they went back to the police
0:51:57 > 0:52:01at the end of the investigation and they've since been destroyed.
0:52:03 > 0:52:07But it doesn't... It doesn't really make any sense
0:52:07 > 0:52:10because you have to retain
0:52:10 > 0:52:14items that are taken as part of a murder enquiry.
0:52:14 > 0:52:17You can't just think, "Oh, well, we've done that, we don't...
0:52:17 > 0:52:20"let's move on." That's certainly not my understanding.
0:52:20 > 0:52:23Obviously, I've never worked for that force, but my potentially
0:52:23 > 0:52:28naive assumption is that it's the same across the board, that
0:52:28 > 0:52:31there's a minimum amount of time we have to keep those things for.
0:52:31 > 0:52:33And I worked previously at the MPS, now I'm with the City...
0:52:33 > 0:52:36Met? At the Met Police.
0:52:36 > 0:52:37That's absolutely...
0:52:37 > 0:52:41The 30-year rule is the thing that leapt to my mind with that.
0:52:41 > 0:52:43"They'll certainly be kept for 30 years." Yeah.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57Everybody I spoke to was really surprised
0:52:57 > 0:52:59that this had been destroyed.
0:52:59 > 0:53:02If it's happened, then somebody must have made a conscious decision.
0:53:02 > 0:53:05Somebody's got to sign a destruction order
0:53:05 > 0:53:08or something or other, and it's not common policy.
0:53:08 > 0:53:11Certainly for the miscarriage of justice cases that we've looked at
0:53:11 > 0:53:14before, there's never been any other case that we've come across
0:53:14 > 0:53:17where they say, "We haven't got them because we got rid of them."
0:53:59 > 0:54:03'In order for the CCRC to effectively carry out a full review,
0:54:03 > 0:54:06'it's clearly very important that material is retained.'
0:54:08 > 0:54:11Somebody convicted of murder in the Crown Court,
0:54:11 > 0:54:14I would expect the material to be around for at least as long
0:54:14 > 0:54:16as that person is in custody.
0:54:17 > 0:54:20Now, if material does not exist, there's nothing we can do.
0:54:20 > 0:54:22We can't invent material.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26We can't come to conclusions not based upon evidence.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29If the material has been destroyed, for whatever reason,
0:54:29 > 0:54:31whether by mistake, deliberate or not, it doesn't matter.
0:54:31 > 0:54:34But if the material simply isn't there,
0:54:34 > 0:54:37then it is impossible to carry out an effective review.
0:55:00 > 0:55:05'We've had some bad news, in terms of the exhibits.'
0:55:09 > 0:55:10OVER PHONE: 'Yes?'
0:55:14 > 0:55:17We know that some evidence was sent back to the police.
0:55:19 > 0:55:23And we know that they've destroyed some things.
0:55:23 > 0:55:25Which is pretty devastating.
0:55:27 > 0:55:28HE EXHALES
0:55:28 > 0:55:30It is.
0:55:31 > 0:55:34There was a guy in Southampton convicted of a murder.
0:55:36 > 0:55:41He did 27 years and then managed to prove that he didn't,
0:55:41 > 0:55:43he could not have killed this woman.
0:55:46 > 0:55:48Can I afford 27 years?
0:55:57 > 0:56:01I'll go to my deathbed...
0:56:01 > 0:56:06saying the same. I did not...murder Paula.
0:56:10 > 0:56:14Um... I will deny ever doing it.
0:56:16 > 0:56:18I didn't do it.
0:57:25 > 0:57:26That's finger marks.
0:57:26 > 0:57:30Why have we got the same four series number for all the tapings
0:57:30 > 0:57:33and things from the car?
0:57:33 > 0:57:34I don't know.
0:57:46 > 0:57:49So, when the carrier bag was examined for fingerprints,
0:57:49 > 0:57:52they took certain precautions during that examination,
0:57:52 > 0:57:54and they recovered samples.
0:57:54 > 0:57:59So, what do we know about where the sample was last known to be?
0:57:59 > 0:58:01Well, our last record of that sample is,
0:58:01 > 0:58:06it was stored in a freezer within the Forensic Science Service.
0:58:06 > 0:58:09And from there, sort of the trail goes cold, really.
0:58:09 > 0:58:14We're really interested in it and it's next to ridge detail
0:58:14 > 0:58:16from a finger mark in blood.
0:58:16 > 0:58:20The sample they took, then, is of the area we're interested in.
0:58:20 > 0:58:25Well, it almost certainly is from the area that we're interested in.
0:58:25 > 0:58:27So we have got a swab? Correct.
0:58:27 > 0:58:31So the only thing left is to find out where it is.
0:58:31 > 0:58:33Establish where it is now.
0:58:33 > 0:58:35Potentially, we've got something
0:58:35 > 0:58:37that, at some point, came from that bag.