0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains strong language and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing
0:00:06 > 0:00:09RADIO: 'The witnesses are entering the witness room.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12'The condemned has declined to make a last statement.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15'Perspiration is now being wiped from the forehead of the condemned.'
0:00:17 > 0:00:22'On my count of three? One, two, three.'
0:00:22 > 0:00:23CLUNKING
0:00:25 > 0:00:27'The execution is now in progress.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30'He is sitting there with clenched fists.'
0:00:33 > 0:00:35'He's slowly relaxing at this time.'
0:00:40 > 0:00:46- 'Death did occur at 12:24. That completes it.- Smooth job.'
0:00:46 > 0:00:49'OK, we appreciate it. Get us another one.'
0:01:05 > 0:01:10The numbers went from one, two, three, four and it kept climbing.
0:01:17 > 0:01:19OVER PHONE: 'How many people are there? Your dad...?'
0:01:19 > 0:01:23- 'My whole family's dead'.- 'OK'. - 'I don't know what to do, man'.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28The only person who had the opportunity and the intent
0:01:28 > 0:01:30and the motive was that man sitting right there.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36"It'll be all right, Grandma," is what he says.
0:01:58 > 0:01:59Well, I'm 22.
0:02:02 > 0:02:06I've not gone through as many life experiences as the others.
0:02:07 > 0:02:09Juror number three.
0:02:09 > 0:02:13I've been in the service, I've been in the military
0:02:13 > 0:02:15and I've worked in all these big industries,
0:02:15 > 0:02:18mechanical and electrical engineer.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20So, you know, I've been all over the place
0:02:20 > 0:02:22and been in a lot of things.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26So it takes all that to know a little something
0:02:26 > 0:02:28about the world besides one little place.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31Juror 32.
0:02:32 > 0:02:36- We are deciding someone's fate. - Deciding someone's fate.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38I've never been in this situation before,
0:02:38 > 0:02:41so I don't know what to think of it, and also why.
0:02:41 > 0:02:47Who am I to be... Yeah, you know? I just don't know anything about it.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51I don't know why they needed me so bad, you know?
0:02:51 > 0:02:52Juror number four.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57I'm a very religious person.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59If I'm strong enough to stand behind my faith,
0:02:59 > 0:03:01then I'm probably strong enough to stand up
0:03:01 > 0:03:04to anything that may happen in a deliberation room.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07I've never been picked for a jury before. Never even been...
0:03:07 > 0:03:10It all happened so fast.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13When they called my name out the first day
0:03:13 > 0:03:15of the jury selection process,
0:03:15 > 0:03:17I can just remember my heart racing
0:03:17 > 0:03:19and realising that "You're in it now.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22"This is a part of it. This is going to be your life
0:03:22 > 0:03:24"for at least the next week or so,
0:03:24 > 0:03:26"and you're really going to have to make a decision here".
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Juror number eight.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32Juror number 11 in the Guy Heinze Jr trial.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37We have some breaking news tonight
0:03:37 > 0:03:39out of the coastal town of Brunswick, Georgia.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Police responding to a 911 call have found seven people dead
0:03:42 > 0:03:44inside a mobile home.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46Police aren't saying much
0:03:46 > 0:03:49about what happened inside this mobile home,
0:03:49 > 0:03:52except to say it's where people were found murdered.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55Here's the latest from the chief of police.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57Should people be worried?
0:03:57 > 0:03:59We all need to be worried. I mean, why wouldn't you?
0:03:59 > 0:04:02Until this is solved, of course we need to be worried.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05You have to understand, this is a highly unusual event.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08This one is not what you'd call a typical homicide.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12A very violent death.
0:04:13 > 0:04:14Very violent.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19My impression when I first looked at it
0:04:19 > 0:04:21was that whoever did this...
0:04:22 > 0:04:24..had a lot of rage.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28The most heinous crime we've ever had in the community,
0:04:28 > 0:04:32and I think we all know that, and I think that speaks for itself.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36Police say each of them was beaten with a blunt object.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38I try and stay in, I lock my car.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40It's making me wonder, you know,
0:04:40 > 0:04:43who's walking around who's capable of actually doing this?
0:04:44 > 0:04:48Breaking news out of Georgia where tonight a man is under arrest
0:04:48 > 0:04:49charged with killing eight people.
0:04:49 > 0:04:53This is the suspect, 22-year-old Guy Heinze Jr,
0:04:53 > 0:04:55who now faces eight counts of murder.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58Seven of those victims are related to him.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02'I am absolutely certain, 100%, what happened.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04'I'm absolutely certain how it happened.'
0:05:18 > 0:05:22MUSIC: "Demon Host" by Timber Timbre
0:05:31 > 0:05:33The trial will be starting Tuesday.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41My grandson is accused of mass murder,
0:05:41 > 0:05:45of supposedly killing eight people.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05He has never been a confrontational person.
0:06:05 > 0:06:06I spent a lot of time with him.
0:06:06 > 0:06:08I babysat him while he was little
0:06:08 > 0:06:10while his momma went to nursing school.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14So we were kind of attached. Um...
0:06:16 > 0:06:18I've dated all this.
0:06:18 > 0:06:23I think it shows that they focused on him in the very beginning.
0:06:23 > 0:06:28I think from day one, which this indicates that they arrested him,
0:06:28 > 0:06:30they didn't look any further.
0:06:30 > 0:06:32Most normal, intelligent people would realise
0:06:32 > 0:06:36one person could not possibly beat eight people to death
0:06:36 > 0:06:38and not have marks on him.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40Somebody would have gotten out of there,
0:06:40 > 0:06:42somebody would have attacked him.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44It makes absolutely no sense to me.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50- So have you got clothes to go to court in?- Mm-hmm.
0:06:50 > 0:06:52What have you got?
0:06:52 > 0:06:54Some button-down shirts and some pants.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00Not very talented at this clothes sorting thing.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05- How many of those will you have, Tyler?- How many what?
0:07:05 > 0:07:07Things with your clothes in?
0:07:07 > 0:07:08I'm going to have this blue thing,
0:07:08 > 0:07:11this trash bag, and that should be it.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16I'm 20 years old. I live with my grandma.
0:07:16 > 0:07:20I'm the brother, the younger brother of Guy Heinze Jr.
0:07:27 > 0:07:31'Basically, this crazy murder trial going on.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33'My dad and my uncle and my cousins got killed
0:07:33 > 0:07:35'and they got my brother in jail for doing it.'
0:07:35 > 0:07:38POLICE OFFICER: What's your name?
0:07:38 > 0:07:40- Guy.- G-U-Y?
0:07:40 > 0:07:44'Other people have their crazy stories. This is my crazy story.'
0:07:44 > 0:07:49I am packing stuff in the truck to go to Georgia.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54Um, my brother's trial is about to start,
0:07:54 > 0:07:58and I have to be there with my grandmother,
0:07:58 > 0:08:02so we're going to Georgia for the trial, basically.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04You don't fold clothes very much.
0:08:04 > 0:08:06You certainly couldn't get a job doing that.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08It's got to get stuff in here.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11Just going to have to dewrinkle these in Georgia.
0:08:13 > 0:08:18Basically, I am all they have left, because both parents are dead.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22Guy was 17 when their mom died and Tyler was 11.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24'It was a drug overdose.'
0:08:24 > 0:08:26Wait.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33'Tyler was devastated. I mean, he went everywhere with his mom.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35'He was his momma's pet.'
0:08:35 > 0:08:38It would be smart to hold it by the side
0:08:38 > 0:08:41instead of tearing the plastic with a split in it.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43You know smart's not my forte.
0:08:43 > 0:08:45Well, it's time you got a little bit.
0:08:47 > 0:08:52'I mean, I've already been at the rock bottom place. I can only go up.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54'I mean, I feel like if my brother gets out of jail,
0:08:54 > 0:08:57'that's going to be a boost for me right there
0:08:57 > 0:09:00'and I feel like I can hold him steady and he can hold me steady.'
0:09:05 > 0:09:07I took a lot of pictures.
0:09:09 > 0:09:10This is Guy.
0:09:10 > 0:09:14I like the expression on his face better than anything.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20Looks like he's just gazing up at the heavens.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25I think most of them, Jean took.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28- That's his mom.- Really?- Yeah.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31Oh, they look like her. That's Tyler?
0:09:31 > 0:09:33- That's Tyler and Guy.- Yeah.- Oh!
0:09:33 > 0:09:38That's Tyler and Guy. Look, that is funny.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42I mean, there's no doubt that they're brothers.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45We have to... I mean, the jury has to see these.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47Yeah. Especially that one.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49Look at this.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52- Cute. That's Guy?- Yeah.
0:09:54 > 0:09:56'Just the association humanises them,
0:09:56 > 0:09:58'you realise they have hopes, fears, dreams.
0:09:59 > 0:10:03'That's what you want the jury to see. They're real people.
0:10:03 > 0:10:05'Makes it harder to kill them.'
0:10:06 > 0:10:08I'm nervous.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11You know, it's very stressful representing someone
0:10:11 > 0:10:16that you believe did not commit the crime for which they are charged.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20And it's even more stressful knowing that, you know,
0:10:20 > 0:10:24their fate is literally in your hands and the hands of a jury.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29'His entire family has been murdered,
0:10:29 > 0:10:33'and then the State is saying not only
0:10:33 > 0:10:36' "You're the one that killed your entire family",
0:10:36 > 0:10:40' but "We're going to kill you for killing your entire family."
0:10:40 > 0:10:43'I think it was decided by law enforcement'
0:10:43 > 0:10:49within the hour that Guy was the chief and only suspect.
0:10:49 > 0:10:54I know you've been through a hell of a lot in the last hour, OK?
0:10:54 > 0:10:57Unfortunately, you're going to have to go through it again,
0:10:57 > 0:11:00because we've got to find the people that done this.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02You were one of the first ones there.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04You're going to be the person that's going to help us
0:11:04 > 0:11:06figure out what happened, OK?
0:11:13 > 0:11:15I believe I was at home when I got the call.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20The lieutenant who called me, a watch commander,
0:11:20 > 0:11:26they had a homicide case and he said they had multiple victims.
0:11:27 > 0:11:29But he didn't know how many.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57We have four in here.
0:11:57 > 0:12:03'And the numbers went from one, two, three, four and it kept climbing,
0:12:03 > 0:12:06'and he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call you back".'
0:12:10 > 0:12:14So I got dressed. Told the wife, as I usually do with these things,
0:12:14 > 0:12:18"Honey, I got to go to work, don't know when I'll see you again."
0:12:23 > 0:12:25The biggest challenge was
0:12:25 > 0:12:30OK, if one person did this, how can we prove that?
0:12:31 > 0:12:35I realise you was pretty messed up that night.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51Guy, is it possible, with you being high like you were,
0:12:51 > 0:12:55- that you could have done this? - No, no.- OK.
0:12:58 > 0:12:59All right.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05'We were convinced he did it and he was alone.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08'I'm still confident of that.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12'But the jury has to make that determination.'
0:13:12 > 0:13:14So there's always a degree of worry,
0:13:14 > 0:13:19because you know that, how a person looks at something,
0:13:19 > 0:13:21they may look at it differently than you.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28Jean, I want you to come up here, if you would, please.
0:13:32 > 0:13:36They've got everything set, they're going to start the trial.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39We need to remember them in prayer.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45Pray...for wisdom...
0:13:46 > 0:13:48..justice,
0:13:48 > 0:13:50and God's will.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54God's the only one that knows the whole story.
0:13:55 > 0:13:59We'll just encircle these families, we'll close in prayer.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04Father, I'll be the first one to tell you
0:14:04 > 0:14:07we don't understand all that goes on.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12But, Lord, I know that you understand.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15And, Father, I just pray this morning,
0:14:15 > 0:14:18for Jean, for Guy, for Tyler.
0:14:18 > 0:14:20Lord, we're praying for truth. We're praying for answers.
0:14:22 > 0:14:24We're praying for your will to be done.
0:14:24 > 0:14:28To your glory, we ask in Jesus' name, Amen.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34I want to thank everybody for their prayers.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36It means a lot.
0:14:43 > 0:14:45Good to see you.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50I hope everything turns out for you.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02I actually am seven and a half hours away from South Georgia.
0:15:04 > 0:15:05How do you two get on?
0:15:05 > 0:15:07- Get along?- You can't tell?
0:15:07 > 0:15:10SHE LAUGHS
0:15:10 > 0:15:13For the most part, we get along pretty well.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17- He thinks I'm 30 years behind the times.- Nobody's ever said that.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20Those words have never came out of my mouth.
0:15:20 > 0:15:25You are sitting there, telling a bald-faced black lie.
0:15:25 > 0:15:27You told me I was 30 years behind the times
0:15:27 > 0:15:31when I was trying to tell you how to act like a civilised young man.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38How are you both feeling about the trial at the moment?
0:15:38 > 0:15:40I feel good about it, but still,
0:15:40 > 0:15:44there's always that little niggling doubt, you know, that little...
0:15:44 > 0:15:46Unsettled, not doubt. Unsettled.
0:15:46 > 0:15:48I'm glad for Guy, cos I know
0:15:48 > 0:15:50he's ready to get back out into the world.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54I couldn't imagine what it would be like being in jail for four years
0:15:54 > 0:15:58and not being able to hug anyone or have any friendships.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13RADIO: 'A local man accused of slaughtering his family
0:16:13 > 0:16:16'is finally going on trial four years after the killings.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18'This is a death penalty case.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25'Lawyers have selected the jury panel.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29'Superior Court Judge Stephen Scarlett has ordered all of them
0:16:29 > 0:16:31'to be sequestered throughout the trial,
0:16:31 > 0:16:33'which is expected to last at least two weeks'.
0:16:33 > 0:16:35This is our whole case file.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37This is everything that we've compiled.
0:16:37 > 0:16:42This represents four years of work by the Capital Defender Office
0:16:42 > 0:16:44and a bunch of attorneys and investigators.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49In here and in everybody's head, you know,
0:16:49 > 0:16:53we have what we think we need to be able to save his life.
0:16:55 > 0:16:56Hey, Sam, am I the lead?
0:16:57 > 0:17:00OK, sorry. I wasn't clear, sorry.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02All right.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04'The train is on the track.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07'This is one of the biggest cases ever to occur'
0:17:07 > 0:17:08in the State of Georgia.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11We don't have a whole lot of mass murder situations.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15Unbelievable! Bludgeoned to death. Police say he acted alone.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18Straight after my fantastic expert panel,
0:17:18 > 0:17:21Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and author of And Justice For Some.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24They have no doubt they got the right guy. I think it's silly
0:17:24 > 0:17:28that his lawyer is saying he wasn't involved. Please!
0:17:28 > 0:17:30Psychologist Belisa Vranich.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33It goes back possibly even generations.
0:17:33 > 0:17:36There must something there that has been bothering him
0:17:36 > 0:17:41and has been brewing, maybe 10, 20, 22 years.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44Forensic pathologist Dr Bill Manion.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46I agree with all the speculation.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator.
0:17:48 > 0:17:53This was fuelled more than likely by drugs, by money,
0:17:53 > 0:17:56by being spurred by a family member, and some sort of event
0:17:56 > 0:18:00occurred in his life that caused that man to go under extreme rage.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02I think there's no question he was enraged.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05You know, duh! All those dead people.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08- This isn't a gun, where you go... - SHE IMITATES GUNFIRE
0:18:08 > 0:18:12You have to go in, whack, whack, kill, go to the other room,
0:18:12 > 0:18:16- do the same thing. That rage is not just festering.- Got to wrap it up.
0:18:16 > 0:18:18Thank you to my fantastic panel.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20A call to arms in Puerto Rico,
0:18:20 > 0:18:23a new proposal to breed monkeys for testing and experimentation.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26This is a barbaric ritual in my opinion,
0:18:26 > 0:18:27and we're going to talk about it...
0:18:31 > 0:18:33We want the case concluded.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37Obviously, we want a guilty verdict, but juries make that decision,
0:18:37 > 0:18:38and we deal with it.
0:18:39 > 0:18:45'My first death penalty murder case was a murder by two young men.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48'And I actually went to those two executions.'
0:18:49 > 0:18:52It is an ultimate sentence.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54It ends a person's life,
0:18:54 > 0:18:58and I think if you're there and you see what you do,
0:18:58 > 0:19:00the result of what you've done,
0:19:00 > 0:19:04then that gives you the ability to approach those cases,
0:19:04 > 0:19:06I think, a lot more seriously.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11'I don't keep track of wins and losses.'
0:19:12 > 0:19:17'I have not lost a death penalty case but, at this point,'
0:19:17 > 0:19:20I can't tell you figures. I just don't keep up with them.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31'You know, Guy in the morning, he's going to wake up
0:19:31 > 0:19:33'in Glynn County Detention Center.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36'He's going to wake up in his orange jumpsuit.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39'Then they're going to let him change into his suit
0:19:39 > 0:19:42'and the tie and the jacket.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45'Then they're going to bring him out into the courtroom
0:19:45 > 0:19:48'before the jury's in there, then they'll sit him at the table.'
0:20:00 > 0:20:03They wanted him to wear a suit,
0:20:03 > 0:20:08so I have bought him some suits to wear.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11First men's suits I've ever bought in my entire life.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16First time he ever wore a suit, as a matter of fact.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31All rise for the jury, please.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47They didn't really tell us what might happen
0:20:47 > 0:20:49or what we were going to do.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52They just kind of threw us in there.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58The first impression I had about him was clean cut.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02Person you could walk next to at a grocery store and think nothing of.
0:21:02 > 0:21:06It could be my brother. It could be, you know, my best friend.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10I have a son about his age,
0:21:10 > 0:21:16so it was kind of, that kind of stuff just made it hard for me.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19I wanted to believe that he was innocent, you know.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22I couldn't believe that somebody could do that,
0:21:22 > 0:21:28so just in my, like, heart, you know, I thought "Surely he's innocent".
0:21:28 > 0:21:30What was your first impression of him?
0:21:30 > 0:21:33In my opinion, Guy Heinze Jr
0:21:33 > 0:21:38has a stoned, kind of hollow face.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42No remorse, no feelings.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47He was just for him, you know, and that's what struck me.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54Good afternoon, ladies and gentleman. As the judge said,
0:21:54 > 0:21:57I'm John Johnson. I am a special assistant district attorney,
0:21:57 > 0:22:01I work for...the district attorney, Jackie Johnson.
0:22:01 > 0:22:06The defendant in this case is charged with eight counts of mass murder.
0:22:06 > 0:22:10This evidence is circumstantial evidence and by that I mean
0:22:10 > 0:22:13there is no video tape of what happened inside that trailer.
0:22:14 > 0:22:17'It's like a parent going into a kitchen'
0:22:17 > 0:22:21and seeing cookie crumbs on the counter and the cookie jar's been opened into,
0:22:21 > 0:22:24they didn't witness the crime, there's no evidence,
0:22:24 > 0:22:27no video tape of it and then they see their child, you know,
0:22:27 > 0:22:30in another room standing there with cookie crumbs all over his face.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34That's circumstantial evidence that that child took the cookies
0:22:34 > 0:22:37and ate them and so, you have to prove those individual facts
0:22:37 > 0:22:41to lead you, to lead a jury to the one conclusion
0:22:41 > 0:22:44'that this defendant is the only person who could have done it.'
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Not one person in Glynn County,
0:22:47 > 0:22:50not one person in McIntosh County,
0:22:50 > 0:22:53not one person in Pierce County, Brantley, Charlton,
0:22:53 > 0:22:57not one person's DNA was in that house that the police confirmed,
0:22:57 > 0:23:00except this defendant.
0:23:00 > 0:23:02This defendant,
0:23:02 > 0:23:05in a period of time over two hours, three hours...
0:23:07 > 0:23:10..beat members of his family to death with the barrel end of a shotgun,
0:23:10 > 0:23:14you'd be able to conclude that from the evidence in this case.
0:23:14 > 0:23:18This case actually starts in the middle, because that's when the
0:23:18 > 0:23:24police officers first get called out to Lot 147, New Hope Trailer Park.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33'You have to drive into the New Hope Trailer Park,
0:23:33 > 0:23:36'you go down a little ways and then, there's a little two-path road
0:23:36 > 0:23:40'that goes off to the right and you cut off between some beautiful
0:23:40 > 0:23:43'oak trees and you come to Lot 147,
0:23:43 > 0:23:45'which is a trailer in that park.'
0:23:51 > 0:23:55At about 8.18, eight o'clock in the morning, Margaret Orlinski was up
0:23:55 > 0:24:00and she sees the defendant in this case drive up through her window,
0:24:00 > 0:24:04drive up to 147, it's about eight o'clock in the morning,
0:24:04 > 0:24:06a little after eight o'clock.
0:24:06 > 0:24:11..the evidence that you give to the court shall be the truth,
0:24:11 > 0:24:14- the whole truth and nothing but the truth?- I do.- Take your seat.
0:24:21 > 0:24:23What do you recall?
0:24:23 > 0:24:26I went outside and Guy was out there screaming and yelling,
0:24:26 > 0:24:29saying, "My whole family's dead, my whole family's dead,
0:24:29 > 0:24:31"you've got to call the police, call the police."
0:24:31 > 0:24:34- Did you call 911?- Yes.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37- And is that you on that call?- Yes.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39DIALLING TONE
0:24:39 > 0:24:41'What's going on, ma'am?
0:24:41 > 0:24:45'There's ah, Guy has just came home and his whole family is dead,
0:24:45 > 0:24:47'he's pretty hysterical, I can't understand...
0:24:47 > 0:24:49- 'I haven't gone over there yet. - OK.
0:24:49 > 0:24:51'This is, this is Guy, I don't know what his last name is,
0:24:51 > 0:24:53'he, he's freaking out.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56- 'Here, here. Talk to this.- I just got home and my whole family's dead.
0:24:56 > 0:24:58'OK, tell me what's going on, sir.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01'I got, I just got home just now and everybody's dead.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03- 'Who?- My daddy's dead...
0:25:03 > 0:25:05'How many people are there? Your dad, who else is there?
0:25:05 > 0:25:10'My dad, my, my, my uncle and my cousins.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13- 'OK.- It looks like they've been beaten to death, I don't know.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16'I don't know what to do, man.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20'OK. Just stay on the line with me, OK?
0:25:20 > 0:25:23'I got to call my brother, I got to call my brother.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25'OK, well, you need to stay on the phone with us.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28'I got to tell him his dad's dead, his dad's dead.
0:25:28 > 0:25:30'All right, well, calm down because we've got
0:25:30 > 0:25:32'to figure out what's going on, OK?
0:25:32 > 0:25:34- 'Yes, yes.- You've got to move, buddy.'
0:25:36 > 0:25:38'I didn't like it.'
0:25:38 > 0:25:43I felt uncomfortable listening to it. It was heartbreaking almost.
0:25:43 > 0:25:45'Where is my dad?'
0:25:48 > 0:25:51'It felt like it was genuine, I felt there was a lot of grief,'
0:25:51 > 0:25:56I felt like, "Wow, this guy has just found his family murdered,"
0:25:56 > 0:26:00so I felt, er, I felt that was very strong in his favour.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03'When you came in the house, what did the house look like?
0:26:03 > 0:26:07'It looks like a fucking murder scene!'
0:26:07 > 0:26:12He was kind of, a, kind of smart aleck...
0:26:12 > 0:26:17towards the operator, who was obviously trying to figure out
0:26:17 > 0:26:21what was going on and he was, he snapped back.
0:26:48 > 0:26:51When I made my way through the house,
0:26:51 > 0:26:56it appeared that everyone had been shot, erm...
0:26:56 > 0:27:00that was my first take on it when I checked on everyone inside.
0:27:08 > 0:27:10So what did you ask him?
0:27:10 > 0:27:14Er, if there was any guns in the house, not sure if whoever had
0:27:14 > 0:27:18done this had found them, had used one of them or anything like that.
0:27:18 > 0:27:21And what was his response to you at that time?
0:27:21 > 0:27:24Er, he told me about two shotguns that were inside the house.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26What did he say?
0:27:26 > 0:27:31Er, there's a 20-gauge pump shotgun and a 16-gauge single-shot shotgun.
0:27:33 > 0:27:38He told me that the 16-gauge was in the trunk of his Mercury Coupe.
0:27:38 > 0:27:40Where did he say he had gotten that from?
0:27:40 > 0:27:42Er, the bedroom.
0:27:42 > 0:27:43And did he tell you why he did that?
0:27:43 > 0:27:48His words were that it was hot, meaning stolen.
0:27:59 > 0:28:03Did you know where the 16-gauge shotgun is?
0:28:04 > 0:28:07There was supposed to be two weapons.
0:28:08 > 0:28:11The butt that of the 20-gauge shotgun
0:28:11 > 0:28:14is at the head of Russell Toler Senior,
0:28:14 > 0:28:15the barrel is missing.
0:28:17 > 0:28:23The long cylinder, blunt object is not anywhere in the house
0:28:23 > 0:28:25or has not otherwise been found.
0:28:27 > 0:28:30'The weapon that was found missing a barrel, that missing
0:28:30 > 0:28:33'barrel was used to kill everybody, you can at least argue that.
0:28:33 > 0:28:36'And the autopsy doctor is the only person
0:28:36 > 0:28:39'who can present that information.
0:28:39 > 0:28:44'Doctor Donaghue was the person who did all eight autopsies.
0:28:44 > 0:28:48'This is a death penalty case so you have to show er, that the,
0:28:48 > 0:28:51'that really this was an outrageous type killing.'
0:28:51 > 0:28:53Do you have a preference as to where we start?
0:28:53 > 0:28:55I have no preference.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59'Going into the trial, I felt that there would probably be
0:28:59 > 0:29:02'some things that I might see or I might hear
0:29:02 > 0:29:05'that could be a little bit disturbing.'
0:29:05 > 0:29:08It was definitely extremely graphic erm,
0:29:08 > 0:29:11I'll tell you what I tried to do during that time is
0:29:11 > 0:29:16try to think of the pictures that I was seeing as not real people
0:29:16 > 0:29:19and I know that sounds strange, because they are real people.
0:29:19 > 0:29:22Who all lived in that trailer?
0:29:22 > 0:29:26OK, there's me, my dad,
0:29:26 > 0:29:28my uncle,
0:29:28 > 0:29:30my cousin Michael,
0:29:30 > 0:29:33my cousin Russell Junior,
0:29:33 > 0:29:35my cousin Michelle,
0:29:35 > 0:29:37my cousin Chrissie,
0:29:37 > 0:29:44her boyfriend Joe and Brenda, my aunt Brenda.
0:29:44 > 0:29:46- Brenda's your aunt?- Yeah.
0:29:46 > 0:29:49Did you have an occasion to perform
0:29:49 > 0:29:51an autopsy on Brenda Falagan?
0:29:51 > 0:29:53Yes, I did.
0:29:53 > 0:29:5738 evidences of external injury.
0:29:57 > 0:29:59- Sorry, how many?- 38.
0:29:59 > 0:30:02Can we have these lights turned off, please?
0:30:06 > 0:30:08On the left margin of the tongue,
0:30:08 > 0:30:10there was a laceration with haemorrhage,
0:30:10 > 0:30:13this is frequently due to blows to the jaw
0:30:13 > 0:30:15that trapped the tongue between the teeth.
0:30:17 > 0:30:21Pretty gruesome, very gruesome, very gruesome.
0:30:21 > 0:30:24And I've seen, that's worse than what I've seen them
0:30:24 > 0:30:26even in the military.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29On the thenar eminence of the palm of the left hand,
0:30:29 > 0:30:33there was a slanting laceration, these injuries on the hands maybe
0:30:33 > 0:30:35her raising her hand to defend herself.
0:30:37 > 0:30:42'It showed maybe too much of a person, but you had to show it'
0:30:42 > 0:30:46to realise what happened, you know, what went on.
0:30:46 > 0:30:49Er, there were 48 injuries on the external
0:30:49 > 0:30:52surface of the body of Michelle Toler.
0:30:52 > 0:30:54Sir, could you detail those for us, please?
0:30:54 > 0:30:59The body was that of a young white female weighing 115 pounds and
0:30:59 > 0:31:03appeared the stated age of 15 years.
0:31:03 > 0:31:07On the proximal phalanx of the anterior right index finger,
0:31:07 > 0:31:11there is erm...a laceration, zero point two inches,
0:31:11 > 0:31:17the fourth and fifth left metacarpal bones of the hand this area,
0:31:17 > 0:31:21the underlying bones were fractured, the metacarpal bones.
0:31:21 > 0:31:24As far as her mouth and teeth are concerned,
0:31:24 > 0:31:27can you describe what you observed?
0:31:27 > 0:31:30Many, many interior teeth are fractured and loose.
0:31:32 > 0:31:38We couldn't turn this off or just change the channel if we were scared
0:31:38 > 0:31:42of something we were seeing, we had to sit there and face our fear
0:31:42 > 0:31:48and actually see the actual pictures and the what, this was real life,
0:31:48 > 0:31:50this had, you know, it happened down the street
0:31:50 > 0:31:53from where my, my grandparents live.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56Let's talk about the injuries to Mr Toler's head and face.
0:31:56 > 0:31:59All right, in this case, there were 36 evidences of injury.
0:31:59 > 0:32:03There are multiple comminuted skull fractures.
0:32:03 > 0:32:06Again, the skull is broken into multiple pieces.
0:32:06 > 0:32:09- On each different victim...- They were similar.
0:32:09 > 0:32:11..they were all very similar injuries.
0:32:11 > 0:32:16'And to have to listen to it over and over and over for...'
0:32:16 > 0:32:17through eight of them.
0:32:19 > 0:32:21I think it took two days to listen to all of it.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24Yeah, it did take two days to listen to all the injuries.
0:32:24 > 0:32:28Mr Toler Senior died of cranial cerebral injuries,
0:32:28 > 0:32:31injuries to the skull and brain due to blunt trauma.
0:32:31 > 0:32:36Mr Toler Junior died of cranial cerebral injuries to the skull.
0:32:36 > 0:32:39Chrissy Toler died of cranial cerebral injuries
0:32:39 > 0:32:40due to blunt trauma.
0:32:40 > 0:32:45Did you have an occasion to perform an autopsy on Guy Heinze Senior?
0:32:45 > 0:32:46Er, yes, I did.
0:32:48 > 0:32:51There were 22 evidences of external injury.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54There were 17 internal injuries,
0:32:54 > 0:32:56there was extensive fractures
0:32:56 > 0:32:59of the right side of the skull from the front...
0:32:59 > 0:33:03'Most of the time, when there were pictures around his father,'
0:33:03 > 0:33:07Mr Heinze would look down erm, he couldn't look at things er,
0:33:07 > 0:33:10they obviously affected him emotionally and,
0:33:10 > 0:33:12and you could see that emotion on him.
0:33:12 > 0:33:16'He was without a father, er...I felt compassion for, for Mr Heinze.'
0:33:16 > 0:33:19There were multiple basal skull fractures.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22This is significant because these take a tremendous
0:33:22 > 0:33:26amount of force to create and the skull becomes deformed.
0:33:26 > 0:33:28Because you usually only see these kinds of injuries
0:33:28 > 0:33:32in an automobile accidents or when people fall out of buildings.
0:33:33 > 0:33:38I kept watching him and he wasn't looking up,
0:33:38 > 0:33:42he looked down, so I felt like, "Well, he's avoiding looking at it
0:33:42 > 0:33:45"and that way he's not going to show any emotion."
0:33:45 > 0:33:49I just wish he would have at least paid attention or watched.
0:33:49 > 0:33:51A matter of fact, he just hang his head down
0:33:51 > 0:33:55and grinned a little bit, you know it's, he didn't say nothing.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58I just thought that maybe it was like because it happened
0:33:58 > 0:34:01- so long ago maybe he just kind of... - Had coped with it.
0:34:01 > 0:34:04Yeah, he, that's how he learned to cope and maybe he had already
0:34:04 > 0:34:09got out his anger or hurt or frustration, you know, whatever out.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15Are you able to say whether or not the injuries as to
0:34:15 > 0:34:19each of these eight people are consistent one with the other?
0:34:19 > 0:34:21Yes, they are.
0:34:21 > 0:34:24Are they consistent with the barrel of a gun?
0:34:24 > 0:34:28The barrel, the barrel of the gun is...certainly fits the pattern here.
0:34:28 > 0:34:32Are you aware of a situation where one person has killed eight or nine people?
0:34:32 > 0:34:35Yes. I, in 1887, a man by the name
0:34:35 > 0:34:39of Tom Woolfolk killed his entire family,
0:34:39 > 0:34:45his father, his stepmother, six siblings and an aunt...with an axe.
0:34:45 > 0:34:47Thank you. Your witness.
0:34:47 > 0:34:52If I had to ask you if you know of an incident that's comparable
0:34:52 > 0:34:56to the killing of eight people in a single mobile home
0:34:56 > 0:34:59with nobody tied up,
0:34:59 > 0:35:02with four people in one bedroom, two in another, two in the den,
0:35:02 > 0:35:06your answer would be no, you know of no comparable case.
0:35:06 > 0:35:07That's correct.
0:35:07 > 0:35:09OK. I just wanted to be clear.
0:35:09 > 0:35:13- You're released, Doctor, thank you so much.- Thank you.- Have a good day.
0:35:23 > 0:35:26You didn't even eat your sandwich.
0:35:26 > 0:35:29Looking at them autopsy photos and I thought about my dad
0:35:29 > 0:35:31and my uncle in them,
0:35:31 > 0:35:34in a million years I would never expected that would be their legacy.
0:35:34 > 0:35:37That's how people will remember them, people will remember them
0:35:37 > 0:35:39as the people who got killed in that trailer in New Hope.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42They won't remember any of the good things they've done in their life,
0:35:42 > 0:35:45all they will remember is those are the people that got beat to death
0:35:45 > 0:35:49in that trailer in New Hope and that's their legacy, that's their life story.
0:35:49 > 0:35:51That's the stamp that's been placed on their life.
0:35:51 > 0:35:53I don't want that to be my stamp.
0:35:53 > 0:35:58I don't want this to be, "Aw, that's that kid whose brother "got accused of killing his family."
0:35:58 > 0:36:00I don't want that to be my stamp.
0:36:00 > 0:36:03I want my stamp on life to mean something more than that.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16'Prosecution said that an angry Heinze spent two to three
0:36:16 > 0:36:21'hours beating his family one at a time with the barrel of a shot gun,
0:36:21 > 0:36:24'but his defence says that's just not the case.
0:36:24 > 0:36:26'Testimony continues tomorrow.'
0:36:29 > 0:36:33This is not a case where we're arguing something we don't believe.
0:36:36 > 0:36:40You know, the evidence just isn't there and we're going to point
0:36:40 > 0:36:43that out to the jury and we're going to try to get them to understand
0:36:43 > 0:36:47the reason evidence is not there is because Guy didn't do it.
0:36:50 > 0:36:53Nothing compares to this crime scene.
0:36:55 > 0:36:59'And we want the jury to be thinking - how in the heck,
0:36:59 > 0:37:02'could one person have done this?'
0:37:11 > 0:37:13Could you state your name for the record, please?
0:37:13 > 0:37:15My name is Michael Knox.
0:37:15 > 0:37:18I'm actually a forensic consultant,
0:37:18 > 0:37:21I have my own business where I er, consult about crime scenes
0:37:21 > 0:37:24and traffic accidents and things like that.
0:37:24 > 0:37:28'From a stand point of physical evidence this is, there's none,'
0:37:28 > 0:37:31there's not that there's not much or there's only a little,
0:37:31 > 0:37:33there's nothing that,
0:37:33 > 0:37:36that puts him in that scene at the time of the murders that happened,
0:37:36 > 0:37:38so you have really no physical evidence at all
0:37:38 > 0:37:42to tie him to these crimes.
0:37:42 > 0:37:47I think we got this case what, January 2012, and it took us a good
0:37:47 > 0:37:51four or five months before we really understood what was occurring here.
0:37:51 > 0:37:54What we find with a lot of police departments is that they're actually
0:37:54 > 0:37:56just almost sightseers,
0:37:56 > 0:37:59they're coming in here and they're picking up
0:37:59 > 0:38:02what they can see but they're not really searching for that hidden evidence
0:38:02 > 0:38:05and there's a lot of hidden evidence here that was overlooked.
0:38:05 > 0:38:07One of the biggest things that we saw out of this was the fact
0:38:07 > 0:38:11that it was very clear that this was not carried out by one person alone.
0:38:13 > 0:38:18This is where er...Russell Toler Senior came to final rest,
0:38:18 > 0:38:20this is where he was finally killed.
0:38:21 > 0:38:26Russell Toler Senior, he resisted quite a bit and moved around through
0:38:26 > 0:38:30that bedroom a significant amount and there's blood splatter
0:38:30 > 0:38:34there that shows him getting attacked from two different sides.
0:38:34 > 0:38:38There's directions of force here that are different,
0:38:38 > 0:38:42this spatter indicates that he's being beaten pretty much
0:38:42 > 0:38:44straight down over his head,
0:38:44 > 0:38:46but we have spatter from this side
0:38:46 > 0:38:49that has a directional force coming this way.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53So either the one person that's attacking him
0:38:53 > 0:38:56is running around and getting him from different sides
0:38:56 > 0:39:00or the more likely answer is you have at least two people there.
0:39:00 > 0:39:03This is, er, the middle bedroom where Brenda Falagan was killed.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08She was killed in bed as she's sleeping,
0:39:08 > 0:39:11but you notice that there's no blood spatter, there's no impact
0:39:11 > 0:39:16spatter on this wall to her left side or on the wall above her head.
0:39:16 > 0:39:21The reason for that is that this pillow was over her face while
0:39:21 > 0:39:25she's beaten, which of course, requires that you're striking
0:39:25 > 0:39:29her with one hand while holding the pillow with your other hand,
0:39:29 > 0:39:35but she also has transfer blood on her left arm.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38If you look here, at her left wrist,
0:39:38 > 0:39:42you can clearly see transfer blood in the shape of fingers,
0:39:42 > 0:39:46so now you have a scenario where a person has to be trying
0:39:46 > 0:39:48to hold her arm down,
0:39:48 > 0:39:53cover her face and inflict injuries, all at the same time.
0:39:55 > 0:39:58'I don't know much about that kind of field'
0:39:58 > 0:40:02and so, it was almost like he was like a teacher.
0:40:02 > 0:40:05Russell Toler Junior, there's evidence of him
0:40:05 > 0:40:09being grabbed by his ankles, you can see a handprint in blood,
0:40:09 > 0:40:12somebody's got him by the legs, pulling on his legs,
0:40:12 > 0:40:15this is occurring, he's also getting beaten, er, which is again
0:40:15 > 0:40:19indicators that this is multiple people doing this, not one person.
0:40:19 > 0:40:23It's definitely difficult to see that many people beat
0:40:23 > 0:40:28in the situation that they were and think that one person could do it.
0:40:28 > 0:40:33How many perpetrators in total would have been involved in the murders?
0:40:33 > 0:40:38I would say that you're looking at probably a number around five
0:40:38 > 0:40:40that would have taken in order to carry this out.
0:40:40 > 0:40:43That, that's your analysis, that's your opinion, right?
0:40:43 > 0:40:45- Yes, yes...- Based on your...?
0:40:45 > 0:40:49Based upon all my knowledge, experience and training education in this area, yes.
0:40:49 > 0:40:53'This is the crime scene of your career, this is not the kind of
0:40:53 > 0:40:56'crime scene that you do the best you can do on, this is the one where you
0:40:56 > 0:40:59'get the very best crime scene people you can find wherever you have
0:40:59 > 0:41:00'to get them from'
0:41:00 > 0:41:04in order to manage this crime scene, erm, and instead,
0:41:04 > 0:41:08there's just so much stuff that was done wrong, evidence that's missed.
0:41:08 > 0:41:11All of these bodies should have been processed for finger prints
0:41:11 > 0:41:14and they weren't, so that evidence is lost forever.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19There is some clothing in, in one of the bathrooms
0:41:19 > 0:41:22that had dripped blood on it
0:41:22 > 0:41:24that they photographed.
0:41:24 > 0:41:26But they never collected any of it
0:41:26 > 0:41:30and the fact is that none of the victims were ever in that bathroom.
0:41:30 > 0:41:35If it's not Guy Heinze's DNA, then there's somebody else out there
0:41:35 > 0:41:38that's involved in this crime and that was never even looked at,
0:41:38 > 0:41:42they never even collected it, much less tested any of it.
0:41:42 > 0:41:47If I decide a theory and I say this is my theory of what happened and
0:41:47 > 0:41:51I've got that theory planted in my mind when I get started, my tendency
0:41:51 > 0:41:57is going to be to seek out evidence that tends to prove my theory.
0:41:57 > 0:41:58And it's going to tend,
0:41:58 > 0:42:01I'm going to look for things that tend to establish that I'm right
0:42:01 > 0:42:05and I'm going to tend to ignore thing that...which show that I'm wrong.
0:42:05 > 0:42:06So basically, what you're saying is
0:42:06 > 0:42:09that the Glynn County Police Department have,
0:42:09 > 0:42:10hasn't got enough sense to handle...
0:42:10 > 0:42:14No, it's, you're, it's not about having sense to do it, it's about
0:42:14 > 0:42:17having experience, I mean it'll be like you standing up here and
0:42:17 > 0:42:20trying this case, if you were a brand-new attorney and never tried a case
0:42:20 > 0:42:24before, you wouldn't be standing here trying a case of this magnitude.
0:42:25 > 0:42:28I guess it depends on how good I am.
0:42:30 > 0:42:32Ladies and gentleman, that's it for today.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35We'll see you at 8.15 in the morning.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44I think the case is already falling apart and they know it,
0:42:44 > 0:42:46they know it.
0:42:46 > 0:42:48Well, Mike you have done a fantastic job so far.
0:42:48 > 0:42:50I mean I don't know.
0:42:50 > 0:42:54That's how I'm reading the jury right now is that we've got them
0:42:54 > 0:42:57on the police fucked up this investigation and don't give
0:42:57 > 0:43:01a shit about Guy's rights and they're disgusted with Glynn County.
0:43:07 > 0:43:08Come up!
0:43:10 > 0:43:13'Heinze is accused of committing one of the worst mass
0:43:13 > 0:43:15'murders in state history.
0:43:15 > 0:43:17'Heinze faces the death penalty if convicted.
0:43:17 > 0:43:20'Testimony resumes in the morning.'
0:43:22 > 0:43:24Come on here!
0:43:30 > 0:43:32'Where's Tyler been staying?
0:43:32 > 0:43:36'He's been staying with his friend across town,
0:43:36 > 0:43:40'sort of, I guess my direction might be a little off.'
0:43:40 > 0:43:42He's been OK except for yesterday,
0:43:42 > 0:43:47he got upset when they was discussing his dad and his,
0:43:47 > 0:43:51the expert witness was discussing how he was beat.
0:43:59 > 0:44:02You've got to just be strong, you know, I mean my grandma...
0:44:02 > 0:44:05I have to be strong for my grandma because she,
0:44:05 > 0:44:10she puts on a hard face and a smile, but there's a lot of emotion
0:44:10 > 0:44:14in there and she's, she's easily brought to an emotional state.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17I mean, we've had downs and we have ups, but no matter what,
0:44:17 > 0:44:21we have to keep that relationship for the rest of her life or my life.
0:44:21 > 0:44:23And I mean, I'm just going to have to do what I have to do
0:44:23 > 0:44:25to make that possible.
0:44:25 > 0:44:29Just being mature around her and prove to her that
0:44:29 > 0:44:34I am capable of growing up and doing better than what she knows me to do.
0:44:35 > 0:44:38He has no family left, I think all he has left is his grandma
0:44:38 > 0:44:41and his brother, you know, and if his brother gets convicted,
0:44:41 > 0:44:43he don't have his brother any more.
0:44:43 > 0:44:46He's had a tough life, I believe he,
0:44:46 > 0:44:48he has some good coming his way soon.
0:44:48 > 0:44:52Hopefully, it's his brother, it starts with his brother.
0:44:56 > 0:44:59'It's Monday October 21st, good morning, everyone,
0:44:59 > 0:45:02- 'I'm Kim Getsby.- And I'm Dave Kartun and we're set to begin week
0:45:02 > 0:45:06'two of the Guy Heinze murder trial this morning in Glynn County.
0:45:10 > 0:45:14'Let's talk motive. Days before he was murdered, the suspect's dad
0:45:14 > 0:45:18'told his family he had just won a 25,000 settlement,
0:45:18 > 0:45:22'my feeling is when you have that level of rage directed
0:45:22 > 0:45:25'at family members, that's personal. Everybody debate the issue,
0:45:25 > 0:45:27'I want to know what you think.
0:45:27 > 0:45:29'There is something going on there
0:45:29 > 0:45:32'and I'm going to say this as a complete guess.
0:45:32 > 0:45:34'I bet that either he owes them money or they owe him money
0:45:34 > 0:45:37'for whatever drug dealing was going on there and either they...'
0:45:37 > 0:45:39'No clear motive was ever established
0:45:39 > 0:45:41'but the prosecutor suggested that drugs...'
0:45:41 > 0:45:44'A clear motive has yet to have been identified,
0:45:44 > 0:45:48'Heinze has of course pleaded not guilty to all charges.'
0:45:48 > 0:45:52Do you have occasions to discuss with Guy Heinze Junior
0:45:52 > 0:45:58any issues that he might have had with his father having money
0:45:58 > 0:46:00and not spending it the way he wanted it spent?
0:46:00 > 0:46:02- Yes.- Tell us about that.
0:46:02 > 0:46:06He came to me and he was talking about the money thing,
0:46:06 > 0:46:09he said that, erm, his daddy was going to give money
0:46:09 > 0:46:15to Joe for a swimming pool and Rusty for a trailer
0:46:15 > 0:46:19and he said, "Man, my daddy ain't never done nothing for me and my brother,
0:46:19 > 0:46:21"man, I'm going to kill him, I'm going to kill them all."
0:46:21 > 0:46:24I said, "Hey, man, you can't be doing that, man."
0:46:24 > 0:46:28You know, there are people who will say, "Oh, I'm just going to kill them people," and, and it means nothing,
0:46:28 > 0:46:31- was that the way it was said in this case?- No, er...
0:46:34 > 0:46:37- If you want proceed with cross examination, Mr Hamilton.- Thank you.
0:46:37 > 0:46:41Mr Parker, if I understand, it was June, July or August
0:46:41 > 0:46:47when Mr Heinze started telling you about killing his family, right?
0:46:47 > 0:46:49He told me twice.
0:46:49 > 0:46:51- During that time frame?- Right.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54- August 2009, correct?- Right.
0:46:55 > 0:46:57Would it surprise you
0:46:57 > 0:47:05if I told you that his last day of employment was in September of 2008?
0:47:08 > 0:47:09Maybe, I don't know.
0:47:09 > 0:47:15Why did you wait for a year to call law enforcement?
0:47:15 > 0:47:17No, no, no, no, no.
0:47:17 > 0:47:21The truth of the matter is as you did hear about this crime,
0:47:21 > 0:47:23you saw it on TV and you read it in the paper, right?
0:47:23 > 0:47:26Everybody seen it on the news and read it in the paper...
0:47:26 > 0:47:28Including you.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31It was a sensational crime and you saw an opportunity to sit in
0:47:31 > 0:47:34that witness stand and grab your 15 minutes of fame, isn't that right?
0:47:34 > 0:47:37I don't need fame, buddy, I'm a minister
0:47:37 > 0:47:38so therefore, I don't need that.
0:47:38 > 0:47:40Where are you a minister, sir?
0:47:40 > 0:47:44I travel. I speak down in Florida,
0:47:44 > 0:47:46southern North Georgia.
0:47:46 > 0:47:49- So you represent yourself as a man of God?- Yes, I do.
0:47:49 > 0:47:52What do you think about taking the oath, sir,
0:47:52 > 0:47:55- and raising your right hand? - At this point, I'm going to object.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58He's being argumentative with this witness, he's saying things
0:47:58 > 0:48:01that are improper and unprofessional to say in this court room and...
0:48:01 > 0:48:02Withdrawn, Your Honour.
0:48:02 > 0:48:06I object to him stating a fact.
0:48:09 > 0:48:12'The attorney had kind of gone at him to get him flustered.'
0:48:12 > 0:48:15I kind of thought it was a good tactic.
0:48:15 > 0:48:17And he got the witness flustered.
0:48:17 > 0:48:19Yeah, and got me flustered.
0:48:19 > 0:48:21Yeah.
0:48:21 > 0:48:22Right, sir, you can stand down.
0:48:35 > 0:48:38'The witness said Guy wanted to kill his whole family
0:48:38 > 0:48:40'and it's just a figure of speech,'
0:48:40 > 0:48:42people say that all the time
0:48:42 > 0:48:45but now everything he's ever done in his life is being scrutinised,
0:48:45 > 0:48:49every comment he ever made when he was frustrated or angry
0:48:49 > 0:48:52and all that takes on like this totally new meaning.
0:48:52 > 0:48:55I mean, I was mad at the DA the other day
0:48:55 > 0:48:58and I said I was going to stab him in the face with my pen
0:48:58 > 0:49:01and I thought, "OK, I guess I'm going to be charged with murder now."
0:49:01 > 0:49:03Um...
0:49:04 > 0:49:08I know my life wouldn't stand up to that kind of scrutiny.
0:49:15 > 0:49:20- I do believe he's guilty. - What makes you think he's guilty?
0:49:20 > 0:49:23Cos he's a crackhead. That's what crackheads do.
0:49:23 > 0:49:27I heard he killed his whole family. He was on drugs.
0:49:27 > 0:49:31It's a far-fetched story. The police didn't do the right work,
0:49:31 > 0:49:33so far, what they say on the news, anyway.
0:49:33 > 0:49:36Personally, I think they've got the right man.
0:49:36 > 0:49:38I think it's pretty...
0:49:38 > 0:49:41pretty clear cut.
0:49:46 > 0:49:48'How important is an alibi?
0:49:48 > 0:49:51'Extremely important I, I feel in a case.'
0:49:51 > 0:49:55I was waiting for some type of reason of why he wouldn't have done it.
0:50:10 > 0:50:12OK, to Barrington Park?
0:50:12 > 0:50:14Yeah, Barrington Park.
0:50:34 > 0:50:35Right.
0:50:44 > 0:50:45Can you tell us your name, please?
0:50:45 > 0:50:46Thomas L Williams.
0:50:46 > 0:50:50Night of the 28th, morning of the 29th 2009,
0:50:50 > 0:50:52where were you living at the time?
0:50:52 > 0:50:55I was living at Barrington Park.
0:50:55 > 0:50:59Down on the Old Mahole River on McIntosh County side.
0:50:59 > 0:51:00Who was living there with you?
0:51:00 > 0:51:02My wife.
0:51:02 > 0:51:03OK. And what were you all living in?
0:51:03 > 0:51:07- A camper.- OK, and how many roads are there into Barrington Park?
0:51:07 > 0:51:10I think, but one road.
0:51:10 > 0:51:12- OK, dirt road?- Yes, ma'am.
0:51:12 > 0:51:15OK. And where was your camper?
0:51:15 > 0:51:18Behind some trash cans right there, right when you come in the park.
0:51:18 > 0:51:21OK. So if a person's coming in on the one road in,
0:51:21 > 0:51:23- would they see your camper? - Yes, ma'am.
0:51:29 > 0:51:32And you didn't see no other vehicles there or anything?
0:51:36 > 0:51:41'He had gone to Barrington Park, he had stayed there for several hours.
0:51:41 > 0:51:44'The defendant says he had seen no-one there.'
0:51:44 > 0:51:47Was there anybody else at the park that night?
0:51:47 > 0:51:50Yes, ma'am, there was some people camping about here,
0:51:50 > 0:51:53some people camped out here and some people camped out here,
0:51:53 > 0:51:55at that end of the park.
0:51:55 > 0:51:59Was that the time frame in which he was killing his family erm,
0:51:59 > 0:52:01or arguing with them or, or doing whatever he did?
0:52:01 > 0:52:04That park is approximately eight acres.
0:52:04 > 0:52:06Yeah. Somebody could get out and hide.
0:52:06 > 0:52:10But that's as far as looking across the park,
0:52:10 > 0:52:12you can see everything in the park.
0:52:12 > 0:52:15You're certainly not in a position to say
0:52:15 > 0:52:18what somebody saw or did not see that night, are you?
0:52:18 > 0:52:20No.
0:52:20 > 0:52:22They are drilling it into our heads this one way,
0:52:22 > 0:52:25and the other side is drilling it into our heads this way.
0:52:25 > 0:52:28- Constantly, all day long... - Just like a whirlwind.
0:52:28 > 0:52:29..entered through here,
0:52:29 > 0:52:34we passed by the first victim right here.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38You want to fall asleep, being so tired.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41This is like... You start early that morning, getting up
0:52:41 > 0:52:46at five o'clock - we do - and we take a shower, get into the van
0:52:46 > 0:52:49and escorted.
0:52:49 > 0:52:52And then could leave there eight o'clock at night,
0:52:52 > 0:52:54go get something to eat and back to bed.
0:52:54 > 0:52:56That's for two weeks.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59This is Michelle.
0:52:59 > 0:53:02You're dealing with a lot of emotions and stress that
0:53:02 > 0:53:04you're not used to dealing with in your life.
0:53:04 > 0:53:06Unless you've been on a jury,
0:53:06 > 0:53:08I don't think you can ever imagine
0:53:08 > 0:53:10the stress that is there.
0:53:10 > 0:53:12When we got back to the hotel,
0:53:12 > 0:53:14which was late, every night about 9.30,
0:53:14 > 0:53:19I would read a book just to take my mind off of everything.
0:53:19 > 0:53:22That's the only way I slept.
0:53:22 > 0:53:26There's many nights that I just sat there and stared.
0:53:28 > 0:53:31'Today, jurors will hear final evidence in the trial
0:53:31 > 0:53:33'of a South Georgia man accused of killing...'
0:53:33 > 0:53:37'Guy Heinze Jr could be sentenced to death if he's found guilty...'
0:53:39 > 0:53:41All right. Er...what are those?
0:53:41 > 0:53:46Erm, these are a pair of khaki shorts, I've describe them, um...
0:53:46 > 0:53:50'When we get to the crime scene, he's wearing those shorts.
0:53:52 > 0:53:57'Underneath, he was wearing silver and black gym shorts what was found
0:53:57 > 0:54:01'was the blood of three different people from that house.
0:54:01 > 0:54:04'There was a big stain from one of the girls,'
0:54:04 > 0:54:08so you know, how does that blood get there, is an argument you can make.
0:54:08 > 0:54:10If he's not there when the killings are,
0:54:10 > 0:54:13have occurred, how does the blood from one of the girls get on there
0:54:13 > 0:54:18when he's wearing pants over those clothes when the police get there?
0:54:18 > 0:54:19Here's the blood.
0:54:21 > 0:54:23Chrissy Toler's blood.
0:54:25 > 0:54:29He wears these all day long, all night long,
0:54:29 > 0:54:33this is his underwear, everything else gets changed but this.
0:54:50 > 0:54:51OK.
0:54:53 > 0:54:54OK.
0:54:59 > 0:55:02The testimony and showing the blood on the shorts
0:55:02 > 0:55:06was the state's strongest piece of evidence
0:55:06 > 0:55:09that supported their theory that he
0:55:09 > 0:55:12killed the family, disposed of all these other bloody clothes
0:55:12 > 0:55:15he would have had to have been wearing,
0:55:15 > 0:55:18he cleaned himself up, but he had forgotten to get rid of this
0:55:18 > 0:55:22one pair of shorts that still had blood on them.
0:55:22 > 0:55:25I think the state wanted the shorts to be their smoking gun evidence,
0:55:25 > 0:55:31I don't think it, it rose to that level, I think it cast a suspicion.
0:55:34 > 0:55:38All of us wanted to be able to just put this nice little puzzle
0:55:38 > 0:55:42together and piece it together and say, "OK, this is exactly how it happened," but you couldn't.
0:55:42 > 0:55:44That's a perfect world.
0:55:44 > 0:55:46If they fit together like a puzzle so perfect,
0:55:46 > 0:55:48they wouldn't have needed us as a jury.
0:55:48 > 0:55:50The evidence is closed,
0:55:50 > 0:55:54we are now ready to proceed with closing arguments.
0:55:54 > 0:55:58It's their job to convince me during the closing arguments.
0:55:58 > 0:56:01They're lawyers, their job is to convince, for the defence,
0:56:01 > 0:56:05they just want to convince me just a one little smidgen that it,
0:56:05 > 0:56:08that he might not be guilty, could it be possible that he's not guilty?
0:56:08 > 0:56:11And that's all they've got do, that's all they've got to prove to me.
0:56:11 > 0:56:14On the other side, the prosecution has to convince me
0:56:14 > 0:56:19and has to make me 100% sure that there is no, no other way
0:56:19 > 0:56:22than for him to be involved in this crime.
0:56:22 > 0:56:26He's hollering that his family has been beaten to death,
0:56:26 > 0:56:30police officers, they went in the house and thought that they had been shot.
0:56:32 > 0:56:35Out of his mouth.
0:56:35 > 0:56:38He was hollering it over the telephone to the 911 operator.
0:56:38 > 0:56:42'Can you tell what, how they were, how they were killed?
0:56:42 > 0:56:45- 'It looks like they've been beaten to death, I don't know, man.- OK.'
0:56:45 > 0:56:49"My family's been beaten to death."
0:56:49 > 0:56:50Don't presume anything.
0:56:52 > 0:56:56You heard his voice on that 911 tape,
0:56:56 > 0:57:01you heard how he sounded, you heard the desperation in his voice.
0:57:01 > 0:57:03'How many people are there? Your dad, who else is there?
0:57:03 > 0:57:06'My dad, my, my, my uncle,
0:57:06 > 0:57:12- 'my cousins, I don't know what to do, man!- OK.'
0:57:12 > 0:57:16He was so traumatised, defence wants you to believe,
0:57:16 > 0:57:21and yet he had enough in his mind to go in the house,
0:57:21 > 0:57:27go in the master bedroom, step across Russell Toler Senior
0:57:27 > 0:57:32and all this blood, get a shotgun out of the closet
0:57:32 > 0:57:36and put it in the trunk of his car, why is it in the trunk?
0:57:36 > 0:57:39He says it was stolen.
0:57:44 > 0:57:46We have this.
0:57:46 > 0:57:49Official document registered, we know that a family member
0:57:49 > 0:57:53in that household owned that gun.
0:57:53 > 0:57:57It wasn't stolen, it was not stolen.
0:58:02 > 0:58:06God gave me a gift and that gift is to be able to take a case
0:58:06 > 0:58:10and go to court and try it erm, at one point of time in my life,
0:58:10 > 0:58:14I was going to be a Baptist preacher erm,
0:58:14 > 0:58:16the Vietnam War interfered with that
0:58:16 > 0:58:19and now, I consider myself to have been directed by God to this line
0:58:19 > 0:58:25of work and, and to basically do my preaching in front of 12 jurors.
0:58:25 > 0:58:31They have the gall to come in here and accuse the police officers
0:58:31 > 0:58:36in this case of a criminal conspiracy against this defendant.
0:58:36 > 0:58:38That's what they do,
0:58:38 > 0:58:41because they can't fight the evidence in this case.
0:58:43 > 0:58:46The state is not looking for the truth,
0:58:46 > 0:58:49they are continuing to perpetuate this fraud
0:58:49 > 0:58:53that Glynn County Law Enforcement has committed on this community
0:58:53 > 0:58:57by rushing to judgment, by arresting this man,
0:58:57 > 0:58:58by failing to collect evidence
0:58:58 > 0:59:02and failing to diligently investigate this case.
0:59:04 > 0:59:07'It's an adversarial system,
0:59:07 > 0:59:10'you're looking for the weakness to exploit and then you see it and you
0:59:10 > 0:59:15'run with it and you exploit and you milk it for everything it is worth.'
0:59:19 > 0:59:23We have not come close to proving beyond reasonable doubt
0:59:23 > 0:59:26that Guy killed his family.
0:59:30 > 0:59:32People testify to what they see.
0:59:34 > 0:59:37Mr Parker testified about what he heard, what was said.
0:59:37 > 0:59:40He said, "Man, I'm going to kill them, I'll kill them all."
0:59:40 > 0:59:43Did he get it wrong? Well, he was a year off.
0:59:46 > 0:59:49There are some things that you hear that you go, "Oh, wow! OK, good,
0:59:49 > 0:59:52"there's no way he could have done this!", and then you know,
0:59:52 > 0:59:55it could be as early as five minutes later, you know,
0:59:55 > 0:59:57when the rebuttal comes up, you go,
0:59:57 > 1:00:01"Oh, man. OK, well, that, that poked a hole in that whole theory."
1:00:01 > 1:00:03It was very confusing.
1:00:03 > 1:00:06I was confused probably the majority of the time.
1:00:08 > 1:00:11One argues for and one argues against,
1:00:11 > 1:00:13and that's the way you weigh it.
1:00:17 > 1:00:20The death penalty is very simply retribution,
1:00:20 > 1:00:24it's Old Testament justice.
1:00:24 > 1:00:28Help Mr Heinze, don't let them do this to him.
1:00:28 > 1:00:33Do what's right because that's the definition of justice.
1:00:35 > 1:00:37Do your duty.
1:00:37 > 1:00:40Do justice, then you would have done the right thing.
1:00:40 > 1:00:41Your Honour.
1:00:48 > 1:00:50Ladies and gentleman, whatever your verdict is,
1:00:50 > 1:00:56it must be unanimous as to each count, that is agreed to by all.
1:01:04 > 1:01:07All the 12 of you can now retire to the deliberation room.
1:01:07 > 1:01:09All rise for the jury, please.
1:01:27 > 1:01:29'Until you get into that deliberation room,
1:01:29 > 1:01:32'you really don't feel the pressure.
1:01:32 > 1:01:36'Our first thing we were charged with was to select a foreman.'
1:01:36 > 1:01:39I end up being the foreman of the jury,
1:01:39 > 1:01:42definitely something that I took very seriously.
1:01:42 > 1:01:45'There were some very strong personalities on that jury,
1:01:45 > 1:01:47'so we knew going in there,
1:01:47 > 1:01:50'at least I did, we were never going to have 12 people that the first
1:01:50 > 1:01:54'time we took a vote that we'd all raise our hands and be in unison.'
1:01:55 > 1:01:57You go through so much, a lot of tension
1:01:57 > 1:02:02and, you know, and you've got every person that's got their own opinion,
1:02:02 > 1:02:05which is good, you know, that's real good.
1:02:09 > 1:02:12'We started deliberations that first afternoon
1:02:12 > 1:02:15'and then towards the evening, we decided that's when we were going
1:02:15 > 1:02:17'to take our first vote, after we'd had a chance to hear'
1:02:17 > 1:02:20what everyone said and at that time, we were nine-three.
1:02:24 > 1:02:27'We talked through it a little bit that night,'
1:02:27 > 1:02:30I think I even said, "Of the nine, is there anybody here that is
1:02:30 > 1:02:35"so strong on there that no matter what's laid in front of you,
1:02:35 > 1:02:39"you cannot change your opinion?", and there was one person that said
1:02:39 > 1:02:42"Yeah, that they were OK." Then, when we went, then I said,
1:02:42 > 1:02:47"Of you three, is there anybody here that no matter what is presented
1:02:47 > 1:02:50"in front of you, you cannot change your opinion?"
1:02:50 > 1:02:52And one person said yes on that end.
1:02:52 > 1:02:55So at that point, I said, "We've got a problem."
1:02:57 > 1:02:59Not much else we can do this morning.
1:03:01 > 1:03:06We are waiting for the jury to tell us our client's fate.
1:03:06 > 1:03:09The jury gets to decide how long they want to stay
1:03:09 > 1:03:12and then, they can come back tomorrow morning at whatever time
1:03:12 > 1:03:15they get ready to come back at and start again
1:03:15 > 1:03:20and it's really in their hands at this point erm, or at their mercy.
1:03:20 > 1:03:23'After 17 hours of deliberations,'
1:03:23 > 1:03:25the jury was split on a verdict,
1:03:25 > 1:03:31nine to three, and now deliberations will continue later this morning.
1:03:31 > 1:03:34'It's going to be another long day here at the Glynn County Courthouse,'
1:03:34 > 1:03:38as deliberations in the Guy Heinze Junior trial must start anew.
1:03:43 > 1:03:45- Good morning!- Good morning.
1:03:45 > 1:03:47Well, the jury has come back this morning
1:03:47 > 1:03:50and we're waiting to see if they will reach a verdict today.
1:03:50 > 1:03:53Usually, they come back and convict our clients in like an hour,
1:03:53 > 1:03:55so this is good.
1:03:55 > 1:03:58This is a good sign, we're all...
1:03:58 > 1:04:03I think it probably means that we have a jury who cares
1:04:03 > 1:04:07and who wants to make the decision that's right for them.
1:04:09 > 1:04:14'It was a very emotional deliberation room, there was a lot of stress.'
1:04:14 > 1:04:16There were definitely people
1:04:16 > 1:04:18that were, that were struggling just with the magnitude of,
1:04:18 > 1:04:21of the decision that was... that was at hand.
1:04:21 > 1:04:26We were all just emotionally, physically drained,
1:04:26 > 1:04:31and when we started erm, kind of arguing that's when I kind
1:04:31 > 1:04:36of broke down and I was just wishing that we, erm, could just get along.
1:04:36 > 1:04:39I just don't know what it is that they are fighting
1:04:39 > 1:04:40with each other about at this point.
1:04:40 > 1:04:42- Yeah, they haven't even voted again.- Right.
1:04:42 > 1:04:45I mean as far as we know it's still nine-three and we don't
1:04:45 > 1:04:48know who the nine are, we don't know who the three are and we don't know
1:04:48 > 1:04:52what the dispute is that they're having back in the jury room.
1:04:52 > 1:04:56I wonder if it's nine to 3 to acquit.
1:04:56 > 1:05:00I'm just having a hard time believing nine people think he's guilty.
1:05:00 > 1:05:01I just can't buy that.
1:05:01 > 1:05:03Yeah, I completely agree, Jerry.
1:05:03 > 1:05:07But it's disturbing that we have a couple of jurors crying, erm.
1:05:07 > 1:05:11There has been this total breakdown in their group, you know,
1:05:11 > 1:05:13and they don't have anybody getting through this except
1:05:13 > 1:05:17for each other, it's like you know, when families start falling apart.
1:05:19 > 1:05:22'Some notes started coming out from the jury room'
1:05:22 > 1:05:26about a lot of disagreement and argument among the jurors,
1:05:26 > 1:05:31it was particularly aimed at one juror, number 152 who was
1:05:31 > 1:05:34very contentious with some of the other jurors, we knew that
1:05:34 > 1:05:38at times, erm, some of the jurors had been seen crying and upset.
1:05:38 > 1:05:41So we don't know what the hell they're doing.
1:05:41 > 1:05:44It was becoming more and more likely they would never reach a verdict.
1:05:47 > 1:05:50Several possible outcomes here, a death penalty, also an acquittal
1:05:50 > 1:05:54could set Guy Heinze free, they're also looking at the possibility of
1:05:54 > 1:05:57a hung jury which means both sides would have to start all over again.
1:05:57 > 1:05:59In the meantime the jury...
1:06:02 > 1:06:05What we were worried about is if we had to have another
1:06:05 > 1:06:09trial that the state would have the opportunity to fix all
1:06:09 > 1:06:13the mistakes that they had made in this trial, more than likely
1:06:13 > 1:06:16they probably wouldn't put Ronald Parker back up to testify, more than
1:06:16 > 1:06:19likely they would have responses to a lot of the things that we
1:06:19 > 1:06:23had raised about criticising the investigation that had been done.
1:06:26 > 1:06:29There came a point where it appeared to all of us I think
1:06:29 > 1:06:33that a hung jury was probably going to be the outcome.
1:06:33 > 1:06:36They hadn't reached a unanimous verdict which it has to be
1:06:36 > 1:06:39and so you have to make some decisions at that point.
1:06:50 > 1:06:54In a surprise move this morning, the judge dismissed a juror,
1:06:54 > 1:06:56brought an alternate back in and ruled that they start
1:06:56 > 1:06:58the deliberations over again.
1:07:00 > 1:07:03So we basically started back from scratch....
1:07:03 > 1:07:06We actually pulled out evidence again -
1:07:06 > 1:07:08not only did we go through everyone's thought
1:07:08 > 1:07:12process again but we pulled through evidence, we read the charge again.
1:07:12 > 1:07:17We reached a point - I think Jim said did we want to, erm...
1:07:17 > 1:07:22take a vote now and everybody just kind of looked around,
1:07:22 > 1:07:26we looked at her and said, "How do you feel being the new person
1:07:26 > 1:07:30"coming in?" She said, "Erm, you know pretty good,"
1:07:30 > 1:07:33and so we just all took a vote.
1:07:33 > 1:07:35And we were all together.
1:07:35 > 1:07:37We were all together at that point and we were like...
1:07:37 > 1:07:38We were kind of pleased.
1:07:38 > 1:07:41We all kind of looked at each other like, well, now what do
1:07:41 > 1:07:44we do? You know, wow, we're done, we're here.
1:07:44 > 1:07:47When they all went up it was something else, I can't
1:07:47 > 1:07:53explain what kind of feeling it was but, yeah, I guess something else.
1:07:55 > 1:08:00Total emotion, there was total emotion, when we had that
1:08:00 > 1:08:03final erm, verdict, I think everyone just let loose, everyone
1:08:03 > 1:08:10just, the...the sense of... "Oh, my goodness, erm, it's done! Oh. my
1:08:10 > 1:08:13"goodness we, we've reached a verdict."
1:08:13 > 1:08:15We actually were at a point where we had a...
1:08:15 > 1:08:18We've got to turn something in, we've done this.
1:08:25 > 1:08:28I need to know whether I'm going to have to go the rest of my life
1:08:28 > 1:08:30without my brother or with my brother cos
1:08:30 > 1:08:32I mean I've lost my mum and I've lost my dad and I've
1:08:32 > 1:08:36lost my uncle and I've lost my cousins, I've lost a lot of friends.
1:08:36 > 1:08:40I mean, so I need to know who I've got in my corner.
1:08:40 > 1:08:42I got all my rocks in a bag of not guilty,
1:08:42 > 1:08:45that's where my rocks are at you know, that's where my heart's at,
1:08:45 > 1:08:49that's where I've got planned and my plan's all involve Guy being
1:08:49 > 1:08:53out of jail. So if he's guilty it's like, everything that I've
1:08:53 > 1:08:57thought up until this point is wrong, everything that I had
1:08:57 > 1:09:01planned, everything that I want to do, wrong. I have to start all over.
1:09:03 > 1:09:06And I, I mean I don't think I can do it. I don't know, I'm not saying
1:09:06 > 1:09:10I'm going to go kill myself, but if Guy gets found guilty, I don't expect
1:09:10 > 1:09:14great things for myself I really don't. I know it's bad to say but...
1:09:16 > 1:09:19Just going to be hard for me to turn it around.
1:09:19 > 1:09:21I've been holding it together good after mamma died, and I've
1:09:21 > 1:09:24been holding it together good after they got killed, I haven't really
1:09:24 > 1:09:28had a major breakdown and today could be the day that I fall off.
1:09:28 > 1:09:30CAR RADIO PLAYS
1:09:33 > 1:09:37# Death she must have been your will
1:09:39 > 1:09:42# A bone beneath the reaper's veil...
1:09:44 > 1:09:48# With your voice my belly sunk... #
1:09:49 > 1:09:51Juror number 3.
1:09:54 > 1:09:57Verdict. Jury said come on in.
1:10:02 > 1:10:05I was juror number 4 in the Guy Heinze trial.
1:10:05 > 1:10:11MUSIC: "Demon Host" By Timber Timbre
1:10:24 > 1:10:28I am juror number 32 of the Guy Heinze trial.
1:10:31 > 1:10:33Are you able to cut the 6.30 package for 6?
1:10:33 > 1:10:35Three, two, one.
1:10:35 > 1:10:37Juror number 8.
1:10:48 > 1:10:53I was juror number 11 in the Guy Heinze Jr trial.
1:11:16 > 1:11:18All rise for jury, please.
1:11:27 > 1:11:29Foreman, have you reached a verdict?
1:11:29 > 1:11:31Yes, sir.
1:11:31 > 1:11:32Is that verdict unanimous?
1:11:32 > 1:11:36Yes, sir.
1:11:54 > 1:11:57In the state of Georgia versus Guy William Heinze,
1:11:57 > 1:12:00we the jury find as follows.
1:12:00 > 1:12:03Count one on the charge of malice murder as alleged
1:12:03 > 1:12:07and count one of the indictment, we find the defendant guilty.
1:12:07 > 1:12:11Count two of the charge of malice murder as alleged
1:12:11 > 1:12:15and count two of the indictment we find the defendant guilty.
1:12:15 > 1:12:19Count three on the charge of malice murder as alleged
1:12:19 > 1:12:23and count three of the indictment, we find the defendant guilty.
1:12:24 > 1:12:28Count four on the charge of malice murder as alleged
1:12:28 > 1:12:31and count four of the indictment we find the defendant guilty.
1:12:33 > 1:12:36Count five on the charge of malice murder as alleged
1:12:36 > 1:12:40and count five of the indictment we find the defendant guilty.
1:12:41 > 1:12:45Count six on the charge of malice murder as alleged
1:12:45 > 1:12:49and count six of the indictment we find the defendant guilty.
1:12:50 > 1:12:51Fuck.
1:12:52 > 1:12:57Count seven on the charge of malice murder we find the defendant guilty.
1:12:58 > 1:13:01Count eight on the charge of malice murder
1:13:01 > 1:13:04we find the defendant guilty, so say we all on this
1:13:04 > 1:13:09the 25th day of October 2013 signed by foreperson.
1:13:09 > 1:13:12This is a burning place, man, it's a burning place, dude,
1:13:12 > 1:13:14what goes around comes around.
1:13:14 > 1:13:17Tyler tell me what you think right now, are you mad?
1:13:17 > 1:13:19Are you mad?
1:13:19 > 1:13:22Man, this ain't justice, this ain't right. Everybody sat in that
1:13:22 > 1:13:26court, you all sat through the same trial I sat through.
1:13:26 > 1:13:29All of you all sat there and heard what you all heard.
1:13:29 > 1:13:33- I didn't see it coming.- You never know what the jury is going to do right.
1:13:34 > 1:13:36Unbelievable.
1:13:50 > 1:13:53There wasn't one thing that I said that's it, that you can't get past
1:13:53 > 1:13:56this, there wasn't one thing that did that but there were multiple
1:13:56 > 1:14:00things. I was really disappointed that there was not a good alibi.
1:14:00 > 1:14:05Someone would have seen him come or go at some point.
1:14:05 > 1:14:07The 911 call.
1:14:07 > 1:14:10When he was screaming on the phone that my family had been
1:14:10 > 1:14:12beaten to death.
1:14:12 > 1:14:15You can't take it back, how do you know they were beaten to death?
1:14:15 > 1:14:19First people that came in there - police - they thought they were shot.
1:14:21 > 1:14:24I think the gun was another big thing cos
1:14:24 > 1:14:27he said that the gun was stolen, it really wasn't stolen.
1:14:27 > 1:14:30For him to lie to say it was stolen.
1:14:30 > 1:14:34There was lots of holes and lies and things that didn't add up.
1:14:34 > 1:14:38We all said walking into the deliberation - if we're deciding
1:14:38 > 1:14:40whether the police department made mistakes it's an open
1:14:40 > 1:14:42and shut case but that's not what we're here to decide.
1:14:42 > 1:14:45There were too many things that I just couldn't answer.
1:14:45 > 1:14:48I think the blood on the clothing was one thing our jury
1:14:48 > 1:14:51couldn't really get past and that was...
1:14:51 > 1:14:56That was the main thing to me... was he had on gym shorts,
1:14:56 > 1:14:59he didn't get the blood stains that morning when he showed
1:14:59 > 1:15:05up to the scene, that he had to have been there beforehand at some point.
1:15:09 > 1:15:13At that point, the sentencing phase, you were ready to do it, were you?
1:15:13 > 1:15:16We were definitely ready for, erm, myself included were
1:15:16 > 1:15:19definitely ready to, to go to the next phase.
1:15:21 > 1:15:23I definitely prepared myself through prayer,
1:15:23 > 1:15:26I'm a very religious person you know,
1:15:26 > 1:15:30I ultimately feel that...that we have an ultimate judge and we will
1:15:30 > 1:15:34have to answer to him one day, but we are also required to abide by
1:15:34 > 1:15:38the laws of the land and the laws of the state of Georgia, erm, obviously
1:15:38 > 1:15:42you know, the death penalty is something that is on the table.
1:15:47 > 1:15:51Ladies and gentleman prior to your deliberation this morning,
1:15:51 > 1:15:53parties, that is both sides entered into an agreement.
1:15:53 > 1:15:56That agreement was the,
1:15:56 > 1:16:01the dismissal of one of your fellow jurors and the agreement that
1:16:01 > 1:16:05the state's removal of the death penalty as an option of punishment.
1:16:25 > 1:16:28It's almost a, a sense of relief, a sense of relief that,
1:16:28 > 1:16:31that we, that we weren't going to have to make that
1:16:31 > 1:16:34decision about the man's life, that it was taken out,
1:16:34 > 1:16:36that part of it at least was taken out of our hands.
1:16:36 > 1:16:39I felt like I was, erm...
1:16:39 > 1:16:42Something you know, was took from us
1:16:42 > 1:16:44that to finish up what we were doing.
1:16:44 > 1:16:47I mean we'd done all this through two weeks,
1:16:47 > 1:16:50we should make our own mind up about what he would be sentenced to.
1:16:50 > 1:16:52They won't be able to kill him...
1:16:58 > 1:17:01That's what we've done, we've insulated him from death.
1:17:08 > 1:17:13That's my big brother, in my heart of hearts I thought
1:17:13 > 1:17:16when I left Georgia, I thought Guy was coming home with us.
1:17:19 > 1:17:23He was going to get to be there for Christmas, Thanksgiving...
1:17:23 > 1:17:29and I had that in my mind you know, I had that set like, it was
1:17:29 > 1:17:31there, like that's going to happen, I know it's going to happen
1:17:31 > 1:17:33and it's not happening.
1:17:34 > 1:17:36I was wrong.
1:17:52 > 1:17:54Welcome to Death Penalty Clinic
1:17:54 > 1:17:56at the University of Houston Law Centre.
1:17:56 > 1:17:59You will be working on real life cases.
1:17:59 > 1:18:02Police are searching for a prison guard's killer.
1:18:02 > 1:18:05I don't think I deserve to die for something I didn't do.
1:18:05 > 1:18:07If he found a way to weasel his way out of the death penalty,
1:18:07 > 1:18:09that would not be right.
1:18:09 > 1:18:12You are their last and only hope.
1:18:12 > 1:18:14I really want to save his life, if it's possible.