0:00:02 > 0:00:03PHONE DIALS
0:00:03 > 0:00:04HEAVY BREATHING
0:00:04 > 0:00:06911, where is your emergency?
0:00:13 > 0:00:14OK.
0:00:34 > 0:00:36OK.
0:00:36 > 0:00:37Er...
0:00:41 > 0:00:42- OK.- Oh, my God.
0:00:51 > 0:00:52Sir, calm down.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27You don't want to believe it was for real.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29That's how horrifying it was.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Just the anger - how can someone have that much hate?
0:01:38 > 0:01:41Imagine how much energy it takes for not one...
0:01:43 > 0:01:45..but 14 separate blows.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55This boy, with that smile...
0:01:56 > 0:01:58..why would he do that? I mean, why?
0:02:05 > 0:02:09It rips at you. You have somebody's life on your hands.
0:02:15 > 0:02:17We serve a god of love.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19We also serve a god of justice.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40I don't think there's any way to really put a word to it...
0:02:40 > 0:02:41what we've lost.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48For me personally, it's...
0:02:48 > 0:02:50not even so much the big occasions,
0:02:50 > 0:02:54like my graduation, my wedding - it's...
0:02:54 > 0:02:56you know, the smaller things
0:02:56 > 0:02:59that everybody takes for granted with their parents.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02It's, you know...
0:03:02 > 0:03:05"Oh, I wonder how to fix this, I should call my dad,"
0:03:05 > 0:03:10or, "I think my mom would like that, I'm going to e-mail it to her."
0:03:10 > 0:03:13We...none of us can do that any more.
0:03:13 > 0:03:14And...
0:03:14 > 0:03:16Nobody, no matter what age they are,
0:03:16 > 0:03:21is ready to really be without their parents,
0:03:21 > 0:03:26and so to have that taken away, um, for me, you know,
0:03:26 > 0:03:31losing the day-to-day, small things has probably been the worst part.
0:03:37 > 0:03:41Even just something like when we go on a trip,
0:03:41 > 0:03:45my friend always has to call and let her family know
0:03:45 > 0:03:47that she made it safely, and...
0:03:47 > 0:03:48just things like knowing
0:03:48 > 0:03:52that there's no-one waiting for that call from me now...
0:03:53 > 0:03:55..has been the hardest part.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03He robbed them of their old age -
0:04:03 > 0:04:09of their chance to live to an old age.
0:04:09 > 0:04:14So, the idea of him living to be an old man...
0:04:14 > 0:04:20just the idea that he might get something that he took from them
0:04:20 > 0:04:23is difficult to handle.
0:04:31 > 0:04:32To begin the broadcast tonight,
0:04:32 > 0:04:36two murders in the small Summit County city of New Franklin.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38And we understand the victims are a husband and wife?
0:04:38 > 0:04:39That's right.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43Attorney Jeffrey Schobert and his wife Margaret
0:04:43 > 0:04:46were found murdered in their home in New Franklin this afternoon.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50County investigators just identified the suspect in that case,
0:04:50 > 0:04:54and the suspect, we understand, was not a stranger to the Schoberts.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56That's right - the suspect, Shawn Ford,
0:04:56 > 0:04:59is actually the boyfriend of the Schoberts' daughter Chelsea.
0:04:59 > 0:05:01He's an Akron resident, 18 years old.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03Police say he used a sledgehammer to kill
0:05:03 > 0:05:07the couple in the bedroom of their New Franklin home on April 2nd.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10Ten days before that, Akron police believe
0:05:10 > 0:05:12he stabbed and beat the couple's daughter -
0:05:12 > 0:05:14and his girlfriend - Chelsea Schobert.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22Peggy and Jeff were so giving,
0:05:22 > 0:05:25and if that's who Chelsea said she was in love with,
0:05:25 > 0:05:27and wanted to be with,
0:05:27 > 0:05:29they were going to do everything to make that work.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32- LAUGHTER - Jeffrey...
0:05:32 > 0:05:35Jeffrey, Jeffrey.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37Oh, that's a good picture of him and Chelsea.
0:05:39 > 0:05:41You know, that's kind of who they were -
0:05:41 > 0:05:46they were very generous people and when they decided to adopt,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48they just went about it like they do everything else -
0:05:48 > 0:05:50who was in most need?
0:05:51 > 0:05:55So, they took Jessica, who was in neo-natal intensive care
0:05:55 > 0:05:56as a 27-week preemie,
0:05:56 > 0:05:58and Chelsea, whose mother was like...
0:05:58 > 0:06:02I think she was 15 - I could be wrong, but I think she was 15.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04Jessica - is that when you did your photoshoot
0:06:04 > 0:06:06for that lady, the artist?
0:06:06 > 0:06:09- This one... - Yeah, isn't that adorable?
0:06:09 > 0:06:12Chelsea, she didn't know where she fit in.
0:06:13 > 0:06:17She really had an issue with the black versus white,
0:06:17 > 0:06:25and so tried really hard to hang out with kids of her colour.
0:06:25 > 0:06:27So, she did - she connected with a bunch of kids.
0:06:27 > 0:06:32How she connected with the likes of Shawn Ford, I'm not sure.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37Him and his stepbrothers were there a lot -
0:06:37 > 0:06:40they were there for every family function we did.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45So, they've been to all of the family homes,
0:06:45 > 0:06:50and it's just...that's what makes it even more bizarre, is they were...
0:06:50 > 0:06:53they could have been a part of this family.
0:06:55 > 0:07:00I didn't know his background, I had no idea about his background.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04I didn't know he had 14 counts of juvenile offences against him.
0:07:04 > 0:07:10I think... I think I would have been a little different had I known that.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13I think I would have had a sit-down with my sister -
0:07:13 > 0:07:16but since we didn't know, you know,
0:07:16 > 0:07:18kind of left you in the dark.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23This boy, with that smile...
0:07:25 > 0:07:29And why would he do that? I mean, why?
0:07:29 > 0:07:31There were so good to him.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35Beautiful. Remember that one?
0:07:35 > 0:07:37I do, yeah.
0:07:37 > 0:07:38Remember that one, Bobby?
0:07:38 > 0:07:41OK, guys, I nominate this for photo of the year...
0:07:41 > 0:07:43of Jeff and Peg.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46'Thank God Jessica was OK.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49'I just thank God she wasn't there too.'
0:07:53 > 0:07:58She said the only thing that will ever scare Shawn
0:07:58 > 0:08:00is the death penalty,
0:08:00 > 0:08:03and she did not want to back down from it.
0:08:04 > 0:08:08She felt like her parents deserved that as justice.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30We've been involved in jury selection for a couple of weeks now,
0:08:30 > 0:08:33and we've pared it down to about 45 folks.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36Some jurors walk in and you know they're going to feel it -
0:08:36 > 0:08:38they'll think about it, and they're going to make...
0:08:38 > 0:08:39they'll do the decision right.
0:08:39 > 0:08:41Other jurors, you'll say,
0:08:41 > 0:08:43"How do you feel about imposing the death penalty?"
0:08:43 > 0:08:45And they'll say, "Well, I couldn't do it right now,
0:08:45 > 0:08:47"but if you give me an hour, I could."
0:08:47 > 0:08:50You know, they're ready to put the needle in themselves.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52So, some people are going to have a real struggle with it,
0:08:52 > 0:08:54and some people...
0:08:54 > 0:08:57they're not going to have any problem at all,
0:08:57 > 0:08:58and go right about their business.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00Those are the ones who are dangerous,
0:09:00 > 0:09:03and those are the ones that I don't want in this jury.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07I mean, if you're going to kill him, at least think about it.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15If our client is convicted, and gets life in prison,
0:09:15 > 0:09:17he's got one quality of life, and if he...
0:09:17 > 0:09:21gets the death penalty, not only will he be executed down the road,
0:09:21 > 0:09:24but the time leading up to that will just be...
0:09:24 > 0:09:26cruel.
0:09:34 > 0:09:38In a case where there's a good deal of evidence against your client,
0:09:38 > 0:09:40where there's a lot of evidence, and there's a likelihood
0:09:40 > 0:09:42that you're going to get past that first phase
0:09:42 > 0:09:44of, "Is he guilty or not guilty?"
0:09:44 > 0:09:46and you're going to be at the second phase of,
0:09:46 > 0:09:47"Do we kill him or not kill him?"
0:09:47 > 0:09:50you gotta really use your head,
0:09:50 > 0:09:52and you can't lose your credibility with the jury.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55Thank you, everyone. Please be seated.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58We've got to try and humanise Shawn
0:09:58 > 0:10:01to the point that jurors can come back and say,
0:10:01 > 0:10:05"I recognise that this was brutal, I recognise that,
0:10:05 > 0:10:07"but I can put that aside,
0:10:07 > 0:10:10"and I can bring back something other than death."
0:10:12 > 0:10:15Just by the fact that you've made it this far
0:10:15 > 0:10:19tells us all that you are qualified to be jurors in this case.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23But we're not just looking for jurors -
0:10:23 > 0:10:25we're looking for good jurors.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28This case is a very, very serious case.
0:10:28 > 0:10:29Two people are dead,
0:10:29 > 0:10:34and a young man is literally on trial for his life.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38Today is the most important day of Shawn's life,
0:10:38 > 0:10:41and you folks are the most important people he's ever going to meet.
0:10:41 > 0:10:43So, we're looking for good jurors.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50You just sit there, and you just hope it goes through quickly,
0:10:50 > 0:10:53and that you're just dismissed
0:10:53 > 0:10:55and you can go home and go on with your life.
0:10:57 > 0:10:59The court is now going to excuse the following jurors.
0:10:59 > 0:11:06Juror number 5, number 15, number 32, number 77...
0:11:06 > 0:11:10Once I got to my seat, I said, "I'm going to be on this jury."
0:11:10 > 0:11:12I had a good feeling that I was there -
0:11:12 > 0:11:15that I was going to be there throughout the whole process
0:11:15 > 0:11:16at that point.
0:11:19 > 0:11:24It was kind of scary. It was like, "I can't believe this is happening.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27"My job is going to kill me!"
0:11:27 > 0:11:31I never thought I would be selected.
0:11:31 > 0:11:35I really thought I wouldn't be a part of that process -
0:11:35 > 0:11:37and I was wrong.
0:11:37 > 0:11:38Ladies and gentlemen,
0:11:38 > 0:11:42the 12 of you will constitute the jury in this case.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45So, if you would all please stand once again
0:11:45 > 0:11:48and raise your right hands, I will administer that oath.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50All right, do you and each of you swear or affirm
0:11:50 > 0:11:54that you will diligently inquire into and carefully deliberate
0:11:54 > 0:11:57all matters between the State of Ohio
0:11:57 > 0:12:00and the defendant, Shawn E Ford Jr?
0:12:00 > 0:12:02Do you swear or affirm that you will do this
0:12:02 > 0:12:05to the best of your skill and understanding,
0:12:05 > 0:12:06without bias or prejudice?
0:12:06 > 0:12:08This you do as you shall answer
0:12:08 > 0:12:11under the pains and penalties of perjury.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14If so, please signify by saying, "I do."
0:12:14 > 0:12:15ALL: I do.
0:12:15 > 0:12:18Thank you very much. You may be seated.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20You know, who am I to judge?
0:12:20 > 0:12:26Would I want my life decided on 12 other people that don't know me?
0:12:27 > 0:12:29Don't have a clue about me?
0:12:41 > 0:12:44I wanted to see the process, I wanted to see how it worked,
0:12:44 > 0:12:47I wanted to see what the crime was,
0:12:47 > 0:12:50I wanted to see it all put together.
0:12:50 > 0:12:51All rise.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56In my heart of hearts, I was thinking, at that time,
0:12:56 > 0:13:02you guys are going to have to have a lot of proof...
0:13:02 > 0:13:06in order for me to make a decision
0:13:06 > 0:13:08to send someone to the death penalty.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12Summit County Court of Common Pleas,
0:13:12 > 0:13:15Honourable Judge Parker presiding.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19You know, nobody likes the thought of having somebody be put to death,
0:13:19 > 0:13:22but you kind of have to separate your feelings from it,
0:13:22 > 0:13:26and just look at the facts and the evidence.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29Are counsel ready to proceed with opening statements?
0:13:29 > 0:13:31- The State is prepared. - We are, Judge.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33Mr Hicks, you may open.
0:13:33 > 0:13:35Thank you, Judge.
0:13:39 > 0:13:41As you recognise,
0:13:41 > 0:13:43this case is about death.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47It is about the deaths
0:13:47 > 0:13:50of Mr and Mrs Schobert,
0:13:50 > 0:13:54and, as you understand, there are specifications
0:13:54 > 0:14:01which may ultimately call upon you to consider the death of Shawn Ford.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05He is a young fellow from a different culture -
0:14:05 > 0:14:08a product of poverty.
0:14:09 > 0:14:13A product of family disharmony -
0:14:13 > 0:14:17of a mother who became a mother at age 15...
0:14:17 > 0:14:23and we ask that you will take a long, encompassing view
0:14:23 > 0:14:26of the circumstances which brought about
0:14:26 > 0:14:30the events for which we are here.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38Mr Gessner and I believe and are confident
0:14:38 > 0:14:40at the end of the day we're going to give you
0:14:40 > 0:14:43more than enough evidence to agree with us
0:14:43 > 0:14:46that Mr Ford is guilty
0:14:46 > 0:14:51of the murders of Jeffrey and Margaret Schobert.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54The two Schoberts decided to have children,
0:14:54 > 0:14:55and they adopted.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59They first adopted Jessica Schobert.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03Later, they made a second adoption,
0:15:03 > 0:15:05which is Chelsea Schobert.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07She, through Facebook...
0:15:09 > 0:15:11..started chatting with
0:15:11 > 0:15:13an individual by the name of Shawn Ford.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17When we are done, you are going to be thoroughly convinced
0:15:17 > 0:15:22Mr Ford attacked Chelsea Schobert, critically injuring her.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25Mr and Mrs Schobert had suspicions
0:15:25 > 0:15:27that Shawn was the one who attacked her,
0:15:27 > 0:15:29but regardless of whether he did it or not,
0:15:29 > 0:15:32they felt that this relationship is not good for Chelsea.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34You will hear through the testimony
0:15:34 > 0:15:36that he was not allowed to visit her,
0:15:36 > 0:15:39and as a result of that, he went to the Schoberts' home
0:15:39 > 0:15:42and bludgeoned Mr Schobert to death,
0:15:42 > 0:15:45striking him 14 times with a sledgehammer,
0:15:45 > 0:15:50waited for Mrs Schobert, hid in the room across the hall,
0:15:50 > 0:15:52waiting for her to come in,
0:15:52 > 0:15:54and when she wasn't ready,
0:15:54 > 0:15:56hit her 19 times...
0:15:58 > 0:15:59..killing her.
0:16:02 > 0:16:03All rise.
0:16:27 > 0:16:34When Chelsea and my son was dating, I met Mrs Schobert.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37Well, she would come and take the kids out to eat,
0:16:37 > 0:16:38it was real nice.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42My stepson used to talk about them all the time.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45All the time, saying how nice they was.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50He'd always say I was the mean mommy.
0:16:50 > 0:16:54He thought I was the mean mommy, because I fussed at him,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57and I told him what's right, you know.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00I didn't sugar-coat anything to him.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02I loved him.
0:17:02 > 0:17:07I think he knew it, but didn't want to believe it all the time,
0:17:07 > 0:17:11because, you know, I didn't let him get away with everything.
0:17:13 > 0:17:18His head will mess with him, you know, inside, emotionally,
0:17:18 > 0:17:19but he won't show it a lot -
0:17:19 > 0:17:23but I just know my child. It's going to hurt him.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27It's going to hurt him - he has yet to feel it.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30And I just hate when he do, cos he's going to be heartbroken.
0:17:32 > 0:17:38He's still my child, I love him. I hate what he's involved in...
0:17:39 > 0:17:42..but I don't want them to kill my son.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54Do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony
0:17:54 > 0:17:57you will give in this matter will be the truth, the whole
0:17:57 > 0:17:59truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
0:17:59 > 0:18:02- Yes, sir.- You may take the witness stand, please.
0:18:02 > 0:18:03Let me direct your attention
0:18:03 > 0:18:08specifically to March 22nd,
0:18:08 > 0:18:1023rd of 2013.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12Were you involved at all, at that point in time,
0:18:12 > 0:18:16in regards to the injuries or assault
0:18:16 > 0:18:18that took place against Chelsea Schobert?
0:18:18 > 0:18:21- Yes, after she'd already gone to the hospital.- All right.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23I'm going to show you a photograph,
0:18:23 > 0:18:25identified as State's exhibit number 52.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27Do you recognise who that is?
0:18:27 > 0:18:29- That's Chelsea.- All right.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32Is that the way she looked to you when you went to the hospital?
0:18:32 > 0:18:34No.
0:18:34 > 0:18:36I'm going to show you what's been previously identified
0:18:36 > 0:18:39as State's exhibit number 55 for identification purposes -
0:18:39 > 0:18:40do you recognise that photo?
0:18:40 > 0:18:43Yes, that's what she looked like at the hospital.
0:18:43 > 0:18:44All right.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52We were there the first nights, and we even got to see her that night.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54And it was bad.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56It was... I mean, it was really bad.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59I don't know if Jeff and Peggy thought, at that point,
0:18:59 > 0:19:02it could have been him that attacked her - I don't know.
0:19:02 > 0:19:03I think, right then, their whole focus
0:19:03 > 0:19:05was to make sure she stayed alive.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10As a detective, and maybe more as a person,
0:19:10 > 0:19:14were you concerned, at that point in time, about her condition?
0:19:14 > 0:19:17- Yes.- Were you also concerned about her safety?
0:19:17 > 0:19:19Yes.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23I would talk to Peggy at least once a day.
0:19:23 > 0:19:28She didn't want anyone to discuss anything about Chelsea's attack,
0:19:28 > 0:19:32because they were led to believe it was gang related,
0:19:32 > 0:19:38because both Chelsea and Shawn had lied about who attacked her.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42If Chelsea just would have told the truth,
0:19:42 > 0:19:44they would be alive, you know,
0:19:44 > 0:19:46but she was afraid of Shawn.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52And I think she still loved Shawn, so she didn't want him
0:19:52 > 0:19:53to be blamed for it.
0:19:55 > 0:19:56Was there some discussion
0:19:56 > 0:19:59regarding whether Mr Ford could come visit her,
0:19:59 > 0:20:02since he was, at that point in time, not a suspect
0:20:02 > 0:20:04and he was, you know, her boyfriend?
0:20:04 > 0:20:08I told them I thought it was still best that he shouldn't visit.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12Because there were still parts of the story I wasn't clear on.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14What is the next thing of significance that
0:20:14 > 0:20:16happens in this investigation?
0:20:16 > 0:20:18When I go to see Chelsea one day,
0:20:18 > 0:20:22security said that Shawn tried to get in to see her.
0:20:22 > 0:20:23And they stopped him
0:20:23 > 0:20:26and they took the letter that he was trying to leave for her.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29Thank you, Your Honour, I have no further questions.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36This letter that went up from Shawn to Chelsea.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40- Shawn's telling Chelsea how much he loves her.- Yes.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42Even when she is in the hospital,
0:20:42 > 0:20:45she is still indicating to you that she is in love with Shawn?
0:20:45 > 0:20:46Yes.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50Thank you, Detective.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58It was a story that just started out almost like a love story.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01And ended up like...
0:21:01 > 0:21:03It was a tragedy.
0:21:05 > 0:21:09I think he just didn't like having what he wanted blockaded.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13He couldn't visit her, he couldn't have her, he loved her,
0:21:13 > 0:21:17and those people were the people that were...
0:21:17 > 0:21:20keeping him away from her.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24And so I think all that anger just built up and up until
0:21:24 > 0:21:29he just figured, "I have to get rid of them in order to have her."
0:21:41 > 0:21:43DOG BARKS IN DISTANCE
0:21:43 > 0:21:46My heart goes out to the Schobert family.
0:21:50 > 0:21:55I don't know if they're mad at me...or whatever, I don't know.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57But I'm not a monster.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00I think about them quite often -
0:22:00 > 0:22:04just as much as I think about my own child, I think about them.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18I still have moments that I just break down thinking about him...
0:22:20 > 0:22:24..thinking about what the decision is going to be.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27Ugh, it is just heartbreaking.
0:22:27 > 0:22:28Because he is so young.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34I think about all of this and I break down all day long.
0:22:37 > 0:22:38All day.
0:22:52 > 0:22:56If this case is like every other capital case, there is going to be
0:22:56 > 0:23:00significant testimony, significant evidence,
0:23:00 > 0:23:01significant photographs,
0:23:01 > 0:23:05and they are going to be held up by a medical examiner or a coroner
0:23:05 > 0:23:09and the jury is going to hear about devastating injuries.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12That is going to be difficult.
0:23:12 > 0:23:17Our goal is to hopefully find a way to save this kid's life.
0:23:21 > 0:23:23Would you raise your right hand, please?
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you give in
0:23:26 > 0:23:28this matter will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing
0:23:28 > 0:23:30but the truth, so help you God?
0:23:30 > 0:23:32- Yes, sir.- You may take the witness stand.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35I'm going to now show you a series of photographs of this room,
0:23:35 > 0:23:39including the victims in this case, all right?
0:23:39 > 0:23:41- Yes.- State's exhibit number 79.
0:23:41 > 0:23:42Do you recognise that?
0:23:42 > 0:23:46That is a photograph of the bedroom outside the doorway.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51I'll use State's exhibit number 91 for identification purposes,
0:23:51 > 0:23:52what is this?
0:23:52 > 0:23:56It's a... It would be the female decedent's hand,
0:23:56 > 0:23:59and there was a plastic wrapper on the floor.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04State's exhibit number 84 for identification purposes.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06In the middle of the bed, there is an item there,
0:24:06 > 0:24:09- can you tell us what that was? - A sledgehammer.
0:24:12 > 0:24:15No-one with a normal mind can imagine doing such a thing.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19You think, "Is this for real? Is this from a movie?
0:24:19 > 0:24:22"Did this really happen?"
0:24:22 > 0:24:24As you can't fathom,
0:24:24 > 0:24:28your brain...my brain can't fathom something like that happening.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32Going to show you, I have marked this
0:24:32 > 0:24:35State's exhibit number 93 for identification purposes.
0:24:35 > 0:24:36Do you recognise that?
0:24:36 > 0:24:40Yes, that is a photograph of the interior of the bedroom,
0:24:40 > 0:24:43showing both decedents in their positions as they were found.
0:24:43 > 0:24:45All right.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54I don't think I will ever get those pictures out of my head.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16I was shocked with the brutality.
0:25:16 > 0:25:22On the sledgehammer, it seemed very barbaric. Up close, personal.
0:25:24 > 0:25:25What Mr Schobert has
0:25:25 > 0:25:28is a cluster of blunt-force injuries.
0:25:28 > 0:25:31Mr Schobert's face is caved in...
0:25:31 > 0:25:34- OK.- ..because the bones that support the face,
0:25:34 > 0:25:36the bones of the face, are broken.
0:25:37 > 0:25:40Would it be fair to say that a significant number
0:25:40 > 0:25:44of his facial bones were crushed?
0:25:44 > 0:25:46- All of them.- All of them? Very good.
0:25:49 > 0:25:55I really hope that after one blow,
0:25:55 > 0:25:59they just weren't aware of anything.
0:25:59 > 0:26:01That is just what I kept praying.
0:26:03 > 0:26:07- How many were the minimum amount of blows to Mrs Schobert?- 19.
0:26:07 > 0:26:09- 19, that's one-nine?- Yes.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14The head was separated from the spine.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16Separating one's head from your spine,
0:26:16 > 0:26:19what type of force would be necessary?
0:26:19 > 0:26:20I can't give you a number on it,
0:26:20 > 0:26:23- but I can say a tremendous amount of force.- All right.
0:26:25 > 0:26:30You look at the family, and at that point, I was like, "This is..."
0:26:30 > 0:26:31You think...
0:26:33 > 0:26:35.."This guy deserves the death penalty."
0:26:47 > 0:26:49# I'm just a rolling stone... #
0:26:49 > 0:26:52Now you're saving these guys that you were...
0:26:52 > 0:26:57I am... In fairness, I have not defended a capital case.
0:26:57 > 0:26:59The difference between John and I is,
0:26:59 > 0:27:01I only represent innocent people.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03THEY LAUGH
0:27:03 > 0:27:05I don't know, when you're a prosecutor,
0:27:05 > 0:27:07everything is black and white, isn't it?
0:27:07 > 0:27:09- You do one case a year. - No, I do more than that.
0:27:09 > 0:27:12When you're a prosecutor, everything's black and white.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16There is a huge difference, because...
0:27:16 > 0:27:19I was raised in a young prosecutor's office,
0:27:19 > 0:27:23or in a prosecutor's office where... it wasn't all about winning.
0:27:23 > 0:27:25It was about doing the right thing.
0:27:27 > 0:27:32The Schobert family, those people are there every day, all day,
0:27:32 > 0:27:36all of them. There's guys from his firm there, they were loved people.
0:27:36 > 0:27:40I mean, you can't say a bad word about them.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43But it's hard sitting there and just...
0:27:44 > 0:27:48..you know, getting pounded for this part of the trial.
0:27:50 > 0:27:54- Not fun.- You knew it going in.- Yep.
0:27:54 > 0:27:56You knew what you had.
0:28:08 > 0:28:13As a community, we have become somewhat immune to violence.
0:28:16 > 0:28:18But this one hit home
0:28:18 > 0:28:21because it happened to people that could be just like us.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27And that is the problem on this jury.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33Folks can very easily
0:28:33 > 0:28:36put themselves in the position of the Schobert family.
0:28:42 > 0:28:46I'm going to show you a series of exhibits.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51- And what are those? - These are text messages
0:28:51 > 0:28:53and text details.
0:28:53 > 0:28:54All right.
0:28:54 > 0:28:57So let's go through the records of what you found.
0:28:58 > 0:29:03This was the type of story, as it continued to unfold,
0:29:03 > 0:29:08it just got deeper and deeper, and more shocking and more shocking.
0:29:08 > 0:29:13It was the details that made this story so horrific.
0:29:13 > 0:29:18April 2nd, 2015 at 5am...Jeffrey Schobert to Margaret Schobert.
0:29:18 > 0:29:20"You still at hospital?"
0:29:20 > 0:29:235.09am. "What time you coming home?"
0:29:25 > 0:29:32I knew that when the text message was sent to Peg,
0:29:32 > 0:29:38that Mr Schobert...had already...
0:29:38 > 0:29:40I mean, he was deceased.
0:29:40 > 0:29:44"I'm about to go to bed, I been up all night
0:29:44 > 0:29:47"but what time you coming?"
0:29:47 > 0:29:51To take Jeffrey's phone and pretend to be him,
0:29:51 > 0:29:54trying to find out when she is coming home, etc,
0:29:54 > 0:29:57it's the type of thing that just gives you chills.
0:29:57 > 0:30:015.25am. "Why do you want to know when I am coming?"
0:30:01 > 0:30:05I just thought that...this is sick.
0:30:05 > 0:30:09I mean, here he is trying to lure Margaret to come home,
0:30:09 > 0:30:12and then waited three-and-a-half hours for her to come home.
0:30:14 > 0:30:21- It's very chilling.- So she goes back home, she steps into that bedroom...
0:30:23 > 0:30:28And she probably only knew for a couple seconds that her husband...
0:30:28 > 0:30:30what happened to her husband.
0:30:36 > 0:30:42And then, after everything was done, the audacity to send
0:30:42 > 0:30:47a text message to the daughter to pretend to be the mother?
0:30:47 > 0:30:51April 2nd 2013, at 9.14am,
0:30:51 > 0:30:54from the phone number associated with Margaret Schobert,
0:30:54 > 0:30:55to Chelsea Schobert...
0:30:57 > 0:31:03"No matter what... I-M-A always love you.
0:31:03 > 0:31:09"I hope Shawn take care of you, I kinda like him now,
0:31:09 > 0:31:12"but just know I love you to death."
0:31:21 > 0:31:23I have no further questions, thank you.
0:31:28 > 0:31:31I mean, he was guilty.
0:31:31 > 0:31:36There was no question, going through the texts, they knew he was guilty.
0:31:36 > 0:31:39They had no defence, they had no witnesses,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42they had nothing to save him. And that just said it all.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45SHE MOUTHS
0:31:46 > 0:31:48When we started to interview Shawn,
0:31:48 > 0:31:52he still denied any involvement in it...at first.
0:31:52 > 0:31:56He changes his story once we start talking about any
0:31:56 > 0:31:58kind of evidence that we would have had from the scene.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00By the time the interview was over,
0:32:00 > 0:32:03he had said the only one that used the sledgehammer was himself.
0:32:08 > 0:32:12She was sitting on a bench all by herself and just sobbing.
0:32:12 > 0:32:16Anyone who is a mother knows... How...?
0:32:16 > 0:32:18How could you cope with that?
0:32:23 > 0:32:30The last thing she needed from us was, um, hate and anger.
0:32:30 > 0:32:34She had absolutely no coping skills to deal with a son
0:32:34 > 0:32:37who would do something like this.
0:32:37 > 0:32:42And, er, I felt sorry... I genuinely ache for them.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46So... It's how it is.
0:32:46 > 0:32:47- TEARFULLY:- She's a mother.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54Members of the jury, thank you for your patience.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57You will be permitted to retire to begin your deliberations.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04Your duty is confined to the determination of whether
0:33:04 > 0:33:06the defendant is guilty or not guilty
0:33:06 > 0:33:09of the crimes that have been charged.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12You must not be influenced by any consideration
0:33:12 > 0:33:14of sympathy or prejudice.
0:33:44 > 0:33:48"On the count number one, indictment for aggravated murder...
0:33:48 > 0:33:52"we, the jury, find the defendant, Shawn Ford Jr,
0:33:52 > 0:33:55"guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of the offence
0:33:55 > 0:33:58"of aggravated murder as charged in count number one.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01"In count two, we, the jury, find the defendant..."
0:34:05 > 0:34:08- REPORTER:- A short while ago, Shawn Ford Jr
0:34:08 > 0:34:09was whisked away in handcuffs
0:34:09 > 0:34:13after having been found guilty on all charges.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16All of the parties involved cannot comment on this case
0:34:16 > 0:34:18until after sentencing.
0:34:18 > 0:34:21Once that sentencing phase begins with a mitigation hearing
0:34:21 > 0:34:26early Monday, it is possible that this jury could recommend
0:34:26 > 0:34:29the death penalty for Shawn Ford Jr.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38It was expected. We knew it was coming.
0:34:40 > 0:34:44Hopefully, it took some of the anger out of people.
0:34:44 > 0:34:48Now we can go into this next phase and focus on Shawn.
0:34:49 > 0:34:51So...
0:34:51 > 0:34:54Really, I have just got this thing about how we're going to
0:34:54 > 0:34:57do this, and there's a couple jurors here that said things,
0:34:57 > 0:34:59some of the African-American jurors,
0:34:59 > 0:35:02a couple jurors that said things about a chance of redemption,
0:35:02 > 0:35:04"I want him to have a chance of being redeemed."
0:35:04 > 0:35:06So I think I want to feed into that a little bit.
0:35:06 > 0:35:08'This isn't about the crime any more,
0:35:08 > 0:35:10'about whether he did or didn't do it.'
0:35:10 > 0:35:13The question is whether or not he's going to get life without parole,
0:35:13 > 0:35:16die in prison, or whether the State is going to kill him.
0:35:16 > 0:35:19If one juror votes for life, death is off the table.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22They are all required then to go back and consider another option.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25The jury needs to understand that life in prison means
0:35:25 > 0:35:27- life in prison.- This is Ohio.
0:35:27 > 0:35:29If he gets life without parole, he will die in there,
0:35:29 > 0:35:31it won't be some legal bullshit that he's walking
0:35:31 > 0:35:34out of the door on a technicality in six months.
0:35:34 > 0:35:37The idea that there is punishment, and there IS punishment,
0:35:37 > 0:35:40- what more punishment can you have as an 18-year-old...- Right.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43..to be in prison with a bunch of ne'er-do-wells
0:35:43 > 0:35:44for the rest of your life?
0:35:44 > 0:35:48They're going to victimise him in prison, he's going to be
0:35:48 > 0:35:52somebody's girl, and he's going to have a horrible...a horrible life.
0:35:54 > 0:35:56We're going to put on people like family members,
0:35:56 > 0:35:59things about abuse that was suffered as a kid.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02We're going to have experts come up...a psychiatrist come up
0:36:02 > 0:36:06that has evaluated our client, and talk about what problems he has had.
0:36:06 > 0:36:08Anywhere you want.
0:36:08 > 0:36:12'Juries have found mitigation in the strangest places.
0:36:12 > 0:36:14'Juries have saved people's life
0:36:14 > 0:36:18'because they didn't want to see someone's mother suffer a loss.'
0:36:18 > 0:36:21They didn't want to put someone to death
0:36:21 > 0:36:25and leave behind a child or a spouse or siblings.
0:36:26 > 0:36:31We're looking at trying to help the jury understand,
0:36:31 > 0:36:36how is it that a person, a human being, could do this?
0:36:36 > 0:36:38If the jury thinks he has been raised right,
0:36:38 > 0:36:40had all the breaks, there is no explanation
0:36:40 > 0:36:44for why he did what he did. He is just a stone-cold killer.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47So we need to put out there he didn't have it so easy.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49This kid is a broken kid.
0:36:49 > 0:36:53We just need one person, we don't need to convince 12 of them.
0:36:53 > 0:36:55Any one of those people can go in there and say,
0:36:55 > 0:36:58"You know what? I ain't doing this, I'm not going to kill this boy."
0:36:58 > 0:37:02And if one does it, the rest of them can't go past that.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05They can't change it, so all we need is one.
0:37:05 > 0:37:07I know there are some killers on that jury,
0:37:07 > 0:37:10- but there were some people crying... - Yeah, I saw that.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13We've got a lot of women, we've got a lot of blacks, we've got
0:37:13 > 0:37:17- one of the better juries you could have on a case like this.- All right.
0:37:19 > 0:37:22So he's got a chance, he really does.
0:37:36 > 0:37:38You come walking into it,
0:37:38 > 0:37:42and you kind of know the story of what it's all about.
0:37:42 > 0:37:44And you come in and you think, "Gosh, this guy is...
0:37:44 > 0:37:48"death, you know, this is an awful story,
0:37:48 > 0:37:51"I can't believe somebody could do this."
0:37:51 > 0:37:54But then it totally changes.
0:37:57 > 0:38:01We hear all the time that folks get 20 years or 30 years and then
0:38:01 > 0:38:04they're out in seven or eight years, at least we think we hear that.
0:38:04 > 0:38:07Is that true in Ohio?
0:38:07 > 0:38:10No, it's not. Under the law today,
0:38:10 > 0:38:13they would serve the whole sentence before they would come
0:38:13 > 0:38:17and see the parole board for their first parole board hearing.
0:38:17 > 0:38:20Life without parole...
0:38:20 > 0:38:22they are staying in prison until the end of their stay?
0:38:22 > 0:38:24Correct.
0:38:24 > 0:38:29- And there are opportunities for both mental health help in prison...- Yes.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32..as well as religious expression?
0:38:32 > 0:38:36- Yes. - Folks can find salvation in prison.
0:38:36 > 0:38:38- It's there if they want to look for it.- Yes.
0:38:41 > 0:38:47- The individual that gets death is going to be executed in Ohio.- Yes.
0:38:50 > 0:38:52The death penalty is not something you're like,
0:38:52 > 0:38:54"OK, this is what I want to do."
0:38:54 > 0:38:57It's got to be something you have to live with, your decision
0:38:57 > 0:39:01is something you have to live with for the rest of your life.
0:39:01 > 0:39:03Is it fair to say that individuals
0:39:03 > 0:39:09in prison, not on death row, can... they can go to church?
0:39:09 > 0:39:11- Yes.- They can go to classes?- Yes.
0:39:11 > 0:39:13- Get education?- Yes.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15- They have exercise?- Yes.
0:39:15 > 0:39:17- They can have TV?- Yes.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19- They are allowed to see their families?- Yes.
0:39:19 > 0:39:21- They can write letters?- Yes.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30Death row. Is it fair to say that death row
0:39:30 > 0:39:32- is limited movement...- Mm-hm.
0:39:32 > 0:39:34- Yes.- ..limited general population...- Right.
0:39:34 > 0:39:37- ..limited access to other people? - Correct.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42It is a very heavy weight.
0:39:42 > 0:39:47Because you know that there is a human life...
0:39:49 > 0:39:52..that is hanging in the balances, and you...
0:39:56 > 0:40:00..tip that scale one way or the other,
0:40:00 > 0:40:03based on the law and the evidence.
0:40:03 > 0:40:05You and I have met, I believe,
0:40:05 > 0:40:10on four occasions to evaluate Shawn, to determine mitigating factors.
0:40:10 > 0:40:15What can you indicate about Shawn's early life?
0:40:15 > 0:40:19Shawn told me, when I met with him,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23that he never really felt loved by his mom.
0:40:23 > 0:40:25He never really felt loved by his family.
0:40:25 > 0:40:28He had a rough relationship with his stepfather,
0:40:28 > 0:40:31and the two of them would get into it physically.
0:40:31 > 0:40:36And there is research that shows that kids who are
0:40:36 > 0:40:39neglected and abused can come
0:40:39 > 0:40:42and later develop disorders or mental illness.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45In my opinion, Shawn has something
0:40:45 > 0:40:47called antisocial personality disorder.
0:40:47 > 0:40:51So somebody with antisocial personality disorder won't be
0:40:51 > 0:40:54able to put themselves in someone else's shoes,
0:40:54 > 0:40:57won't be able to control their impulses or behaviour
0:40:57 > 0:41:01as well as someone who doesn't have this disorder.
0:41:02 > 0:41:08Plenty of people don't have an ideal environment and they grow up
0:41:08 > 0:41:11and they get along without killing anybody.
0:41:13 > 0:41:15I wish I would have heard something from Shawn.
0:41:17 > 0:41:22Not a lot of them had sympathy, but I guess I can see why they didn't.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26I can see why, and I understood it.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32But I did. I will be honest.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34So let's talk about the personality disorder.
0:41:36 > 0:41:39And that's the one where we talk about having...when people say,
0:41:39 > 0:41:41- "He had no conscience."- Mm-hm.
0:41:41 > 0:41:42- Correct?- Yes.
0:41:44 > 0:41:47Malingering is one of the things that is often associated with
0:41:47 > 0:41:49people with this disorder.
0:41:49 > 0:41:51- Yes.- And what is malingering?
0:41:51 > 0:41:56Basically, outright faking or exaggerating problems
0:41:56 > 0:41:59to avoid some kind of responsibility.
0:41:59 > 0:42:01- Such as a double homicide?- Correct.
0:42:03 > 0:42:05- Doctor, thank you for your time. - Thank you.
0:42:07 > 0:42:10We will now recess for the day.
0:42:10 > 0:42:14While you are on break overnight, do not discuss this case with anyone.
0:42:14 > 0:42:15Do not discuss...
0:42:20 > 0:42:23You have definitely got some seriously compassionate people
0:42:23 > 0:42:28on that jury who look at Shawn as a murderer,
0:42:28 > 0:42:30but also look at Shawn as a boy.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37No matter what you want, out of revenge you want,
0:42:37 > 0:42:43out of a crime like this, you, erm...
0:42:43 > 0:42:47As a human being, with human feelings and a soul,
0:42:47 > 0:42:52you do have to take a step back from handing out a death penalty.
0:42:52 > 0:42:55Because it's just not in our nature.
0:42:55 > 0:42:57Normal people, it's not in our nature.
0:42:58 > 0:43:02To me, it doesn't make sense. Violence begets violence.
0:43:02 > 0:43:07The fact that he's so young is a tragedy.
0:43:07 > 0:43:11I feel for his family, because whatever happened in his life,
0:43:11 > 0:43:13he allowed it to destroy him.
0:43:16 > 0:43:19I'll take the stand and testify tomorrow.
0:43:19 > 0:43:22I really don't know how I'm...I'm going to feel until I get up there.
0:43:25 > 0:43:29And maybe I can get...maybe it's another mother sitting on the jury,
0:43:29 > 0:43:32sympathising with me.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36Because in the end, the only thing we can do is raise our children.
0:43:36 > 0:43:39They go they're own separate way once they get 18.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46I just, like I say, there's not a lot I can do,
0:43:46 > 0:43:49I am just trying to save his life.
0:43:49 > 0:43:54We all know that he's never coming home again, you know.
0:43:54 > 0:43:59But I just want to spare his life. I want to be able to go see him.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15Now...
0:44:15 > 0:44:19- ..you recognise this young man right here?- Yes, I do.- Who's that?
0:44:19 > 0:44:21That is my son, Shawn.
0:44:21 > 0:44:23- OK, do you call him Shawn? - No, I call him Man-Man.
0:44:23 > 0:44:27- You call him Man-Man?- Yes. M-A-N, M-A-N?- Yes.
0:44:27 > 0:44:31- How long have you called him Man-Man?- Since the day he was born.
0:44:31 > 0:44:33OK. Well, how did that name come about?
0:44:33 > 0:44:36When the doctors laid him on my chest,
0:44:36 > 0:44:39he was so tiny and cute, I said, "Look here, my little man..."
0:44:39 > 0:44:43- TEARFULLY:- And ever since then I called him Man-Man.
0:44:43 > 0:44:46- And he's been Man-Man since then?- Yes.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52Who's that?
0:44:52 > 0:44:54That is Shawn Sr.
0:44:54 > 0:44:56Describe that relationship when it first starts off.
0:44:56 > 0:45:00In the beginning it was real... It was lovely.
0:45:00 > 0:45:05Then, a couple years later down the line, it changed for the worse.
0:45:05 > 0:45:10- How did it get bad? - He got real controlling and abusive.
0:45:10 > 0:45:12Fighting me all the time.
0:45:12 > 0:45:16Man-Man, he would try and get on his dad's back and he would be saying,
0:45:16 > 0:45:18"Leave my mommy alone."
0:45:18 > 0:45:22- How old was Man-Man when that happened?- I would say about three.
0:45:22 > 0:45:25- You had another child.- Yes, I did.
0:45:25 > 0:45:27You had a little girl named Chanteia.
0:45:27 > 0:45:28Yes, Chanteia Ford.
0:45:29 > 0:45:34- Chanteia, how did she pass? - Sudden infant death syndrome.
0:45:34 > 0:45:36- Did the household change?- Yes.
0:45:36 > 0:45:39- How?- It was like Man-Man stopped talking.
0:45:41 > 0:45:45Did you ever come to recognise that he had some emotional problems?
0:45:47 > 0:45:50- I didn't see it like that. - How did you see it?
0:45:50 > 0:45:54He was a little bad boy, as we would call him,
0:45:54 > 0:45:58who would maybe grow out of all this stuff he was doing.
0:46:02 > 0:46:05He was a little bad boy. What's that mean?
0:46:05 > 0:46:09You know how little boys always doing something.
0:46:09 > 0:46:12That was just how I saw it.
0:46:14 > 0:46:20I didn't see any psychological thing, or anything like that.
0:46:23 > 0:46:26With some of the difficulties they had with him as a child,
0:46:26 > 0:46:30she said, "I just thought he would outgrow it."
0:46:30 > 0:46:32What parent doesn't think that?
0:46:32 > 0:46:37They think that whatever little idiosyncrasies their kid has,
0:46:37 > 0:46:40that they're just going to outgrow it,
0:46:40 > 0:46:42and I could totally imagine that.
0:46:44 > 0:46:48That was definitely... That was the hardest thing for me.
0:46:49 > 0:46:55So it just really contrasted...
0:46:55 > 0:46:59a lot with the...
0:47:00 > 0:47:08..trial itself - who the Schoberts were and who Shawn Ford was, or is.
0:47:08 > 0:47:13It really contrasted, and you saw two different worlds.
0:47:13 > 0:47:16What do you want this jury to know about your son before
0:47:16 > 0:47:19they make a decision about him?
0:47:21 > 0:47:24I don't want you guys to...
0:47:24 > 0:47:26to kill my baby.
0:47:34 > 0:47:37Do you have any explanation for what happened?
0:47:42 > 0:47:45Is there anything you think this jury needs to know
0:47:45 > 0:47:47about Shawn or you, anything you want them to know
0:47:47 > 0:47:49before they make this most important decision?
0:47:51 > 0:47:53Yes.
0:47:53 > 0:47:57I want them to know that, you know,
0:47:57 > 0:48:02he went and got involved in a bad situation.
0:48:02 > 0:48:04We can't change it.
0:48:06 > 0:48:08But I don't think killing him is the answer.
0:48:10 > 0:48:16I buried a child 17 years ago. I can't bury another one.
0:48:21 > 0:48:23Thank you, Miss Ford.
0:48:34 > 0:48:40The State of Ohio...wants you to put this young man to death.
0:48:41 > 0:48:47I say we're better than that. I say we can do better than that.
0:48:47 > 0:48:50Do you think I didn't feel bad when Mrs Ford got up there
0:48:50 > 0:48:53and asked you to save her son's life?
0:48:53 > 0:48:56Are you kidding me? There wasn't a dry eye in here.
0:48:57 > 0:49:02How odd is it and ironic is it that the reason she's in here
0:49:02 > 0:49:08crying for you, begging to you to save her son's life...
0:49:08 > 0:49:12is because of what he did? What he did to the Schoberts...
0:49:12 > 0:49:15that made her do this.
0:49:15 > 0:49:18Something broke this young man. He's a broken kid.
0:49:20 > 0:49:22And the prosecutor would have you...
0:49:25 > 0:49:28..give up on him. Wash your hands. Kill him.
0:49:28 > 0:49:30He would have you kill him.
0:49:31 > 0:49:34But we're better than that.
0:49:34 > 0:49:39Ladies and gentlemen, this is the aggravated circumstance.
0:49:39 > 0:49:41Attempting to kill...
0:49:41 > 0:49:44Killing or attempting to kill two or more people.
0:49:44 > 0:49:50How much does what they have put in front of you lessen...
0:49:50 > 0:49:52this?
0:49:52 > 0:49:56I don't know what it is, but we've got a problem
0:49:56 > 0:50:02in this country...where we create broken young men.
0:50:02 > 0:50:05And when they get to a point where they are so broken,
0:50:05 > 0:50:06we wash our hands of them.
0:50:07 > 0:50:09And we stick a needle in their arm.
0:50:11 > 0:50:15Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to you that we are better than that.
0:50:27 > 0:50:29When we actually went to deliberations,
0:50:29 > 0:50:31many of us were on the fence.
0:50:31 > 0:50:34There where a couple that had already made their mind up,
0:50:34 > 0:50:39but most of us were on the fence.
0:50:39 > 0:50:43So I don't think there was a lot of tension the first night,
0:50:43 > 0:50:46but there was... Definitely the tension got pretty big the next day.
0:50:49 > 0:50:56There is pressure. The pressure starts to mount a little bit,
0:50:56 > 0:51:01because, um, there's that continual dialogue
0:51:01 > 0:51:07and continual conversation of why they have their position
0:51:07 > 0:51:12versus why you have your position, and trying to close that gap.
0:51:15 > 0:51:17You had those people that,
0:51:17 > 0:51:23"I'm not leaving this room unless the death penalty one is signed",
0:51:23 > 0:51:27those people wanted death, they just wanted him dead.
0:51:30 > 0:51:35I'm surprised that I didn't want him to die. You know?
0:51:35 > 0:51:39I thought this was going to be easy, this was going to be an easy one.
0:51:40 > 0:51:43Uh-uh, it wasn't at all, far from it.
0:51:45 > 0:51:48You just have to think about what happened to the Schoberts.
0:51:48 > 0:51:53And all those swings of a sledgehammer, all that calculating,
0:51:53 > 0:51:59and all those other things just don't carry that much weight.
0:51:59 > 0:52:01I mean, for me, at that point,
0:52:01 > 0:52:05it just was obvious that it had to be death.
0:52:06 > 0:52:09I remember at one point sitting there thinking,
0:52:09 > 0:52:13"What do these ten people see that I don't see?"
0:52:16 > 0:52:21Because I am hanging on to the mitigating evidence of this
0:52:21 > 0:52:26antisocial personality disorder, that there is mental illness here.
0:52:26 > 0:52:28The death penalty is appropriate.
0:52:28 > 0:52:32Besides the crime that he committed...
0:52:32 > 0:52:37I mean, if he could do that to them, just think, what would be next?
0:52:39 > 0:52:42I can't even think of anything more horrifying.
0:52:42 > 0:52:44There's a lot of pressure in there.
0:52:46 > 0:52:50People thinking that I'm crazy for not wanting him to die.
0:52:50 > 0:52:54That was said a lot, like, "What's wrong with you?
0:52:54 > 0:52:58"Why wouldn't she want him to die? He took two innocent lives.
0:52:58 > 0:53:02"He deserves to have his life taken away from him."
0:53:02 > 0:53:05Those were their thoughts.
0:53:07 > 0:53:11I just kind of broke down and said,
0:53:11 > 0:53:15"Would anybody be offended
0:53:15 > 0:53:20"if we all just prayed right now, together?"
0:53:25 > 0:53:29We prayed for the Schoberts' family
0:53:29 > 0:53:32and we prayed for Shawn's family,
0:53:32 > 0:53:36and we prayed for Shawn.
0:53:37 > 0:53:42Then we prayed for wisdom, because, you know, it is just such
0:53:42 > 0:53:46a big responsibility, and you don't want to do the wrong thing.
0:53:54 > 0:53:56Hey, Greg, it's Tom,
0:53:56 > 0:53:58I'm just calling to let you know that there is a verdict
0:53:58 > 0:54:02coming in and they are going to take it as soon as the family gets here.
0:54:07 > 0:54:11It all comes down to this. This is it. It all comes down to this.
0:54:13 > 0:54:15- How are you feeling?- Nervous.
0:54:17 > 0:54:20Um... Terrified. I'm going to go throw up.
0:54:23 > 0:54:25If you think I'm scared, imagine what he's feeling.
0:54:44 > 0:54:46Please be seated, everyone.
0:54:51 > 0:54:53Ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
0:54:53 > 0:54:56would you please provide the verdict forms to my bailiff?
0:55:14 > 0:55:17The court has been furnished with two verdict forms,
0:55:17 > 0:55:22each of which has been signed in ink by all 12 members of the jury.
0:55:22 > 0:55:24The verdict form reads,
0:55:24 > 0:55:27"We, the jury, being duly empanelled and sworn,
0:55:27 > 0:55:30"do hereby find that the aggravating circumstances that
0:55:30 > 0:55:33"the defendant was found guilty of committing DO outweigh
0:55:33 > 0:55:36"the mitigating factors presented in this case
0:55:36 > 0:55:39"by proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
0:55:39 > 0:55:42"We therefore unanimously find that the sentence of death..."
0:55:42 > 0:55:43SOBBING
0:55:43 > 0:55:46"..should be imposed upon Shawn E Ford Jr."
0:56:04 > 0:56:09After we made the final decision for the death penalty,
0:56:09 > 0:56:13one of the jurors was like, "I don't want to pray."
0:56:17 > 0:56:19And I was OK with it.
0:56:19 > 0:56:21- TEARFULLY:- I didn't either.
0:56:24 > 0:56:25(I didn't either.)
0:56:29 > 0:56:31We had did the right thing, and we knew it.
0:56:41 > 0:56:45They were not leaving that room unless the death penalty was signed.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53And so, I guess that is why I caved and I knew that they weren't.
0:56:53 > 0:56:57Was it the right thing to do? No, I don't think it was, but I did it.
0:57:02 > 0:57:06It's something that I have to live with for the rest of my life.
0:57:12 > 0:57:17I think I was probably shocked at the verdict,
0:57:17 > 0:57:19although I shouldn't have been.
0:57:19 > 0:57:23I think I let myself believe in the hope that we had
0:57:23 > 0:57:26that we could save Shawn's life at that time.
0:57:26 > 0:57:31And when it came back the way it came back,
0:57:31 > 0:57:34it knocked me back a good deal.
0:57:34 > 0:57:37Right now, I don't want to do this work any more.
0:57:37 > 0:57:39I will do this work some more, but right now,
0:57:39 > 0:57:42I don't want to do this work any more.
0:57:49 > 0:57:52It's sad. Such a sad process to be a part of.
0:57:56 > 0:57:59From my perspective, the government taking
0:57:59 > 0:58:04the life of one of its citizens is so inherently wrong...
0:58:04 > 0:58:06that when I was involved in the process,
0:58:06 > 0:58:08I feel like I'm fighting that.
0:58:08 > 0:58:12But when the process is over, I just feel dirty, like I'm a part of it.
0:58:12 > 0:58:15And, er, I don't like being a part of it.
0:58:15 > 0:58:20But someone's got to do it, so we'll keep fighting.