0:00:02 > 0:00:04The British justice system is the envy of the world.
0:00:05 > 0:00:08But in the past, mistakes have been made.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11Between the year 1900 and the year 1964,
0:00:11 > 0:00:14approximately 800 people were hanged in the United Kingdom.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19Many of those desperately protested their innocence.
0:00:19 > 0:00:22Some of these long-standing convictions
0:00:22 > 0:00:24could be a miscarriage of justice.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27She's received most of the blows in this position,
0:00:27 > 0:00:29once she's already bleeding.
0:00:29 > 0:00:30In this series, a living relative
0:00:30 > 0:00:32will attempt to clear their family name.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35If the barristers identified a miscarriage of justice...?
0:00:35 > 0:00:37That would make my day.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39Searching for new evidence...
0:00:39 > 0:00:42I can make the 32 fire both calibres.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49..with help from two of the UK's leading barristers,
0:00:49 > 0:00:50one for the defence...
0:00:50 > 0:00:52This is a very worrying case.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55I think the evidence is very suspect.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57..and one for the prosecution.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01I'm still of the view that this was a cogent case of murder
0:01:01 > 0:01:04committed during the course of a robbery.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06They are on a mission to solve the mystery...
0:01:08 > 0:01:10..submitting their findings to a Crown Court judge.
0:01:10 > 0:01:15There is a real risk that there has been a miscarriage of justice here.
0:01:15 > 0:01:19I will look again at the evidence in the light of the arguments
0:01:19 > 0:01:21that you both have put before me.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25Can this modern investigation rewrite history?
0:01:33 > 0:01:35On the 22nd of December 1935,
0:01:35 > 0:01:38Frederick Bryant became ill after supper,
0:01:38 > 0:01:40complaining of severe stomach pains.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44Fred was brought to the nearest hospital in Sherborne,
0:01:44 > 0:01:45but it was too late.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47He died within hours.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51It looked like a simple case of gastroenteritis,
0:01:51 > 0:01:53but it was discovered that Fred's body
0:01:53 > 0:01:54contained high levels of arsenic.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58It seemed Fred had been poisoned.
0:02:00 > 0:02:04Suspicion immediately fell on Fred's wife, Charlotte.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08On the 10th of February 1936,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11Charlotte was arrested, and charged with the murder of her husband.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16By May, she was facing a judge and a jury of 12 men.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20She was found guilty, and sentenced to death.
0:02:23 > 0:02:28Charlotte Bryant was executed on Wednesday the 15th of July 1936
0:02:28 > 0:02:30at Exeter jail.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32Now, 80 years later,
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Charlotte's son, William, and her grandson, David,
0:02:34 > 0:02:38are desperate to learn the truth.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41Charlotte Bryant was my grandmother.
0:02:41 > 0:02:46I didn't know who my grandmother was until I was in my mid 30s.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49- Do you remember when you first told me?- Yeah.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Father's Day, driving along.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54- That's right. - All of the family in the car.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58And I ended up doing a skid, I think, when you told me.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01It was only when Mum prompted me, she said, "You've got to tell them."
0:03:01 > 0:03:03Mmm.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06With their father murdered and their mother hanged,
0:03:06 > 0:03:09the five Bryant children were put into an orphanage,
0:03:09 > 0:03:11and told nothing of the crime.
0:03:11 > 0:03:17The first I knew was when I read it in the paper in 1964.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20Up until then, I knew nothing whatsoever.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22It was completely out of the blue.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25I couldn't really believe what I was reading.
0:03:25 > 0:03:31How do you feel about going through all of the case with this, Dad?
0:03:31 > 0:03:34Just a bit nervous about it all.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37It'll be a fantastic result if the barristers actually...
0:03:37 > 0:03:38Oh, absolutely.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41- ..identify that there's been a miscarriage of justice.- Yeah.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44That would make my day, that would. Yeah.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47Although I never knew Mother at all,
0:03:47 > 0:03:51I would like to think she was innocent.
0:03:51 > 0:03:52That would be a nice...
0:03:54 > 0:03:56..well, fairy-tale ending.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01The case built against Charlotte was a salacious one,
0:04:01 > 0:04:04based on stories of lust and jealousy,
0:04:04 > 0:04:07but was it a miscarriage of justice?
0:04:07 > 0:04:09The two things that really struck me
0:04:09 > 0:04:13was the lack of what I would call real hard evidence.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17It just seems to be very circumstantial, and she was,
0:04:17 > 0:04:21I guess, an easy target, because she was illiterate,
0:04:21 > 0:04:22cos she was an outsider.
0:04:22 > 0:04:27It just looks like it was an easy fix to hang it on my grandmother.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30Charlotte went to her death claiming her innocence,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33but can a modern legal team discover the truth?
0:04:34 > 0:04:38Jeremy Dein QC has been a defence barrister for over 30 years,
0:04:38 > 0:04:40specialising in serious crime.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45Examining this case for the prosecution is Sasha Wass,
0:04:45 > 0:04:46who has a particular interest
0:04:46 > 0:04:50in cases based on medical or scientific evidence.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53David has travelled to London to meet the barristers
0:04:53 > 0:04:56who will be reinvestigating his grandmother's case.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58I'm very nervous with meeting the barristers.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01I'm worried cos there could be even more weight
0:05:01 > 0:05:02to the fact that she's guilty.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04- My name's Jeremy.- Hello, Jeremy. Very pleased to meet you.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07- Hello, David. Sasha.- Hello, Sasha. - Hi, hi.- Hello, there.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12My role is to look at your grandmother's case
0:05:12 > 0:05:16from the point of view of a defence lawyer,
0:05:16 > 0:05:19and hopefully to identify new grounds
0:05:19 > 0:05:21on which to reopen the case.
0:05:21 > 0:05:26I'm looking at this case from the prosecution perspective,
0:05:26 > 0:05:28but that doesn't mean I am approaching this
0:05:28 > 0:05:33in order to uphold these convictions at all costs - quite the opposite.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37If new material comes to light that throws doubt onto the conviction
0:05:37 > 0:05:41of your grandmother, I will put that forward before the judge
0:05:41 > 0:05:44in order that the right conclusion is reached.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47Just picking up on that, why is it important to you now to establish,
0:05:47 > 0:05:49if it wasn't her, that that's the case?
0:05:49 > 0:05:52I think it would be closure for the family.
0:05:52 > 0:05:54My father - it's turned his life upside down,
0:05:54 > 0:05:56as it did his brothers and sisters,
0:05:56 > 0:06:01and I think it would be good for the family to know and understand it
0:06:01 > 0:06:03so that we can move on.
0:06:03 > 0:06:04Let's say the case got stronger.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07You're ready for that turn of events?
0:06:07 > 0:06:09Certainly we've talked through that with my father,
0:06:09 > 0:06:11and I've talked to him long and hard about...
0:06:11 > 0:06:15"Well, Dad, once they actually start looking at this,
0:06:15 > 0:06:18"it may be that, you know, it's easy for them to say,
0:06:18 > 0:06:20"No, I'm really sorry, but..."
0:06:20 > 0:06:22- "She did it." - That she did it, yeah.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26- Yeah.- But...I think the chance is worth taking for us.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28So we will let you know how we get on.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31- Excellent. Thank you very much.- OK.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35They seem very professional barristers.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37I do genuinely feel that they will look
0:06:37 > 0:06:38at any new evidence that they can,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41they will look at the existing evidence, and see if there's a way
0:06:41 > 0:06:43that it could've been viewed in a different way,
0:06:43 > 0:06:45and they will come to the right conclusion.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52David's grandmother, Charlotte, was born in 1903.
0:06:54 > 0:06:57She met Frederick Bryant while he was on a tour of duty
0:06:57 > 0:06:59in her homeland of Northern Ireland,
0:06:59 > 0:07:01and she accompanied him when he returned to England.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05The couple married in Somerset in 1922.
0:07:07 > 0:07:09As an outsider in a tight-knit farming community
0:07:09 > 0:07:10in Sherborne, Dorset,
0:07:10 > 0:07:14where they settled, Charlotte was viewed with suspicion.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18Rumours began to circulate that the young Irishwoman
0:07:18 > 0:07:20was entertaining local men for money.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Fred Bryant had suffered from stomach complaints
0:07:25 > 0:07:28on several occasions in the months leading up to his death.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33The labourer often handled arsenic in his work on the farm,
0:07:33 > 0:07:35but it was alleged that his death
0:07:35 > 0:07:38was the result of deliberate poisoning.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41- This is not a strong case.- Mmm.
0:07:41 > 0:07:45She was hanged for the murder of her husband
0:07:45 > 0:07:49on what can only be described as highly circumstantial evidence.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51The starting point for me
0:07:51 > 0:07:55is that her character played a major part in the trial.
0:07:55 > 0:08:01She was portrayed as a low-life, someone without any morals.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04By way of starting point, that is a really dangerous platform...
0:08:04 > 0:08:07- It is.- ..for the case to proceed on.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10This case was very thin indeed.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13I'm concerned about the cause of death.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17Was Fred poisoned, or did he die of gastric problems
0:08:17 > 0:08:20which had besieged him for some time?
0:08:20 > 0:08:23What was the motive in this case?
0:08:23 > 0:08:29Effectively, the prosecution relied largely on a vilification
0:08:29 > 0:08:33of her character, and wouldn't be allowed nowadays.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36Whether Charlotte was responsible for his death,
0:08:36 > 0:08:39or he accidentally consumed arsenic,
0:08:39 > 0:08:42Fred Bryant died in tragic circumstances,
0:08:42 > 0:08:44leaving his family destitute.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48- WILLIAM:- He was just, you know, like, laying there.
0:08:48 > 0:08:52Fred was buried in an unmarked grave in Sherborne Cemetery,
0:08:52 > 0:08:55and his son and grandson have come to pay their respects.
0:08:57 > 0:09:05I found out where my grandfather was buried, and also understood
0:09:05 > 0:09:10that he died a pauper, so therefore, he's not in a particular grave -
0:09:10 > 0:09:12it's just in an area of land.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17And I'm sure that's the urn - I can remember.
0:09:18 > 0:09:20- I'm sure that's it.- OK.
0:09:20 > 0:09:21Absolutely.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24So that's where my grandfather is, then?
0:09:24 > 0:09:26Yep, yep.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28Dear Dad, you're down there...
0:09:32 > 0:09:34..but you're always in our thoughts.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38God bless you.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42People can talk about family tragedies that happened a long,
0:09:42 > 0:09:47long time ago, but this, for me, is my grandfather, and he's actually
0:09:47 > 0:09:52very close, but going on this journey is helping me
0:09:52 > 0:09:54fill in some of the blanks.
0:09:54 > 0:09:56I wish I'd brought some flowers now, to be honest.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00I think my father wanted to see it,
0:10:00 > 0:10:02but I'm not sure he was looking forward to it.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04- Are you all right, Dad?- Yeah.
0:10:04 > 0:10:08The fact that we were together and that we were able to experience it
0:10:08 > 0:10:10together, I think helped him.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20What motive could Charlotte have had for killing her husband?
0:10:20 > 0:10:23The prosecution suggested that it was Charlotte's affection
0:10:23 > 0:10:25for her lodger, Leonard Parsons.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30This is not a love triangle in the way that one might imagine it.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34Certainly Charlotte had had an affair with Leonard Parsons
0:10:34 > 0:10:38under the nose of her husband, who didn't seem to care at all.
0:10:38 > 0:10:44That was over well before December 1935,
0:10:44 > 0:10:46and Charlotte made it plain in court
0:10:46 > 0:10:49she was not interested in having a life with him.
0:10:49 > 0:10:50She wanted to stay with her husband.
0:10:50 > 0:10:55He provided her with a roof over her head, he looked after the children,
0:10:55 > 0:10:59so I don't see the motive which was put forward by the prosecution
0:10:59 > 0:11:01as being viable.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03Yeah, it's not just the absence of motive -
0:11:03 > 0:11:07she knew she'd be much worse off by killing him.
0:11:07 > 0:11:11She'd have lost her house and ended up in the workhouse, so, in fact,
0:11:11 > 0:11:13the evidence militates in the opposite direction.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16That's a matter of real concern, isn't it?
0:11:16 > 0:11:17Yes, I agree, I agree.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21The barristers have already thrown doubt
0:11:21 > 0:11:23on Charlotte's potential motive.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26The verdict in 1936, however, had a devastating impact
0:11:26 > 0:11:31on the five Bryant children, as William is all too aware.
0:11:31 > 0:11:34He and David have returned to the orphanage he called home.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37Which was your bedroom?
0:11:37 > 0:11:40I was in this end first - this is the junior end.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44We were... I can't remember whether it was there or that,
0:11:44 > 0:11:47but that whole dormitory up there.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50- Right.- And there would've been at least 50 boys in there.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52Yeah.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54This photograph would have been you
0:11:54 > 0:11:58- on the day that you got brought in, Dad.- Yeah.- That's you.
0:11:58 > 0:12:03- That's me.- Yeah.- That's Uncle Eric. - Yeah.- That's Sam, as I knew him.
0:12:04 > 0:12:05Auntie Mary, as I knew her...
0:12:06 > 0:12:08- ..and Uncle George.- Right.
0:12:08 > 0:12:10And that was Bobby.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13- Right.- I call those names, cos that's how I knew them.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15- Yeah, yeah.- Nothing else, you know?
0:12:15 > 0:12:17Whatever the truth about the murder,
0:12:17 > 0:12:21the Bryant siblings' lives were catastrophically changed forever.
0:12:21 > 0:12:27Because Mary and Eric were older, so they were put into the senior girls,
0:12:27 > 0:12:29senior boys, but Bobby went over that side,
0:12:29 > 0:12:32- cos the nursery was that side. - Right, OK.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36But me being my age, I was put in the juniors,
0:12:36 > 0:12:38and from that time on...
0:12:39 > 0:12:42- ..I really never saw them again. - No.- No.- No.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46William and his siblings were never adopted,
0:12:46 > 0:12:49and spent their entire childhoods in the orphanage.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53William met his future wife, Margaret, at the home,
0:12:53 > 0:12:57and they were married soon after leaving Muller's as teenagers.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01The first recollection I had of Mum was, er...
0:13:01 > 0:13:04we were out playing in the fields.
0:13:04 > 0:13:08I was climbing up this tree, and she shouted to me,
0:13:08 > 0:13:12"You're being silly, you're going to fall any minute."
0:13:12 > 0:13:14HE CHUCKLES
0:13:14 > 0:13:16I remember those words now.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18So I came down, sat down,
0:13:18 > 0:13:20and that was the first time I ever met Mum and had a good chat to her.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23- Right.- Yeah.
0:13:23 > 0:13:28It's nice for me to see my father opening up about the good things
0:13:28 > 0:13:32that happened, but clearly, the reason he was here -
0:13:32 > 0:13:35their father being murdered, and then their mother hanging -
0:13:35 > 0:13:39it absolutely ripped the family apart.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43But I think what this is doing is allowing us to talk about
0:13:43 > 0:13:46the good things that have come out of his time here,
0:13:46 > 0:13:49as opposed to just focusing on the bad things.
0:13:49 > 0:13:54The luck of meeting Margaret, as I knew her, then - Mum -
0:13:54 > 0:13:58- was, to me now, heaven on earth. - Yeah.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05Medical experts at the time were convinced that Fred's illnesses
0:14:05 > 0:14:08had been caused by deliberate arsenic poisoning.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11The Bryant property was searched...
0:14:12 > 0:14:15..and a selection of old tins and bottles were found,
0:14:15 > 0:14:19including a burnt-out tin that would become very significant
0:14:19 > 0:14:21to the investigation.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23Jeremy, the next thing we really ought to look at
0:14:23 > 0:14:25is the cause of death,
0:14:25 > 0:14:31because the pathologist found arsenic in Fred Bryant's body,
0:14:31 > 0:14:36and the prosecution case was not that this was accidental,
0:14:36 > 0:14:41but that Charlotte deliberately administered poison.
0:14:41 > 0:14:47Now, the only person who said that Charlotte had anything to do
0:14:47 > 0:14:51with arsenic was Lucy Ostler, a friend,
0:14:51 > 0:14:54and she said that there was a tin of weedkiller,
0:14:54 > 0:14:59and after Fred had died, Charlotte said, "I must get rid of it."
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Now, in order to bolster up Lucy's account,
0:15:02 > 0:15:05the prosecution retrieved a tin.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09It's the middle tin that was retrieved from the fireplace.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12The prosecution tried to say, "Well, it matches weedkiller -
0:15:12 > 0:15:13"we really need to look at that."
0:15:13 > 0:15:16The thing is, all of this is highly technical,
0:15:16 > 0:15:19so it's very important that we look at all of these questions
0:15:19 > 0:15:21very thoroughly.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24It may be that that's the way we can take the case forward.
0:15:24 > 0:15:29What I suggest we do, is find an expert to explain to us
0:15:29 > 0:15:32what quantities of arsenic are involved in this case,
0:15:32 > 0:15:35and whether this item
0:15:35 > 0:15:39really is as incriminating as the prosecution tried to suggest.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45David and his father, William, are visiting the farmhouse in Dorset
0:15:45 > 0:15:49where Charlotte and Frederick lived with their five young children.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53William has not set foot inside the house in over 80 years.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56Look, see there? The chimney's still there, look.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58- Still the same chimney.- Yeah, yeah.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01Can you remember anything about this area when you were small?
0:16:01 > 0:16:03Cos you are only, what, four, when you were here.
0:16:03 > 0:16:07Four, yeah. Just a vague memory of, er...
0:16:07 > 0:16:09being outside, and, er...
0:16:09 > 0:16:11and Dad was with me.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14He told me to be good and stay that side of the gate
0:16:14 > 0:16:19cos he was getting the cattle in.
0:16:19 > 0:16:24I obviously climbed over, and the next minute, I saw this cow,
0:16:24 > 0:16:28bull or whatever it was, charging at me, and Dad just picked me up,
0:16:28 > 0:16:30and threw me back over again.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33Coming back to the house.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36I can't remember very much about it.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39There were seven of us living there, mother and father, five children,
0:16:39 > 0:16:42so there must have been quite a squash with only two bedrooms.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46Despite the limited living space,
0:16:46 > 0:16:49Charlotte and Fred took in guests on occasion.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Leonard Parsons lodged with the family until November 1935,
0:16:52 > 0:16:55and Lucy Ostler, Charlotte's close friend,
0:16:55 > 0:16:58stayed at the cottage on the night before Fred died.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00Here's a photograph of the kitchen, Dad.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04And that...
0:17:06 > 0:17:09..that cupboard there is that one there.
0:17:10 > 0:17:14Even though I didn't realise it, it's a very important site
0:17:14 > 0:17:20in my family's history, because the fact that an incident happened here,
0:17:20 > 0:17:23whether it was natural causes or whether it was a murder,
0:17:23 > 0:17:29it put my father, and all of his brothers and sister,
0:17:29 > 0:17:32into the Muller Orphanage,
0:17:32 > 0:17:36and it then started a completely different life
0:17:36 > 0:17:38than they ever thought they were going to have.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44One of the key witnesses who helped to link Charlotte to the possession
0:17:44 > 0:17:48of arsenic was her best friend, Lucy Ostler,
0:17:48 > 0:17:52but Jeremy has some doubts about the truth of her statements.
0:17:52 > 0:17:58Lucy Ostler gave some very, very damaging evidence.
0:17:58 > 0:18:02She said that Charlotte went to the cupboard and on the bottom shelf,
0:18:02 > 0:18:04she saw a large tin marked "Weedkiller."
0:18:04 > 0:18:08She said that Charlotte picked it up, and said, quote,
0:18:08 > 0:18:09"I must get rid of this."
0:18:09 > 0:18:14Why did Lucy Ostler give this evidence,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17and what reason might she have had for lying?
0:18:17 > 0:18:21Well, I can help you, cos looking at the transcript
0:18:21 > 0:18:23of her evidence at trial,
0:18:23 > 0:18:25it was put to her that she was frightened
0:18:25 > 0:18:27when she spoke to the police,
0:18:27 > 0:18:29and what Charlotte's counsel said is that,
0:18:29 > 0:18:32"The police were questioning you, were they not?
0:18:32 > 0:18:35"Erm, yes," said Lucy.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38"Did you know they were digging around your husband's grave?"
0:18:38 > 0:18:40"No."
0:18:40 > 0:18:42She's then asked about her husband,
0:18:42 > 0:18:44who had died some four years previously,
0:18:44 > 0:18:49and that there was some sort of suggestion that the police
0:18:49 > 0:18:52were pressurising Lucy, and threatening her
0:18:52 > 0:18:56with looking into her husband's premature death.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59And it was a result of that pressure
0:18:59 > 0:19:03that Lucy came up with this account about that tin.
0:19:03 > 0:19:04On the basis of that information,
0:19:04 > 0:19:10Lucy Ostler clearly had a motive for lying about Charlotte Bryant,
0:19:10 > 0:19:14so this is potentially a very important area for us to focus on.
0:19:14 > 0:19:19Yes, I think so, because other than Lucy Ostler,
0:19:19 > 0:19:23there is no connection between Charlotte Bryant and any arsenic.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30At the Dorset History Centre,
0:19:30 > 0:19:33David is joined by local journalist, Roger Gutteridge,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36who has an insight into Charlotte's conviction
0:19:36 > 0:19:38in the form of a flamboyant and wealthy eccentric
0:19:38 > 0:19:40who championed her cause.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45There were people at the time who had serious doubts about it
0:19:45 > 0:19:48as a conviction - are you aware of that?
0:19:48 > 0:19:49Erm, no, I wasn't.
0:19:50 > 0:19:52He has some information to share
0:19:52 > 0:19:57about one of Charlotte's fiercest defenders, Violet Van der Elst.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00Violet Van der Elst was the leading campaigner
0:20:00 > 0:20:01against capital punishment.
0:20:01 > 0:20:05- Yes.- And she seems to have taken this case under her wing
0:20:05 > 0:20:07in quite a big way.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10Born to a washerwoman and a coal porter,
0:20:10 > 0:20:13Violet Van der Elst made her fortune by inventing Shavex,
0:20:13 > 0:20:15the world's first brushless shaving cream.
0:20:18 > 0:20:22She travelled to Exeter, spoke in public in the streets...
0:20:22 > 0:20:26- Right.- ..campaigning for Charlotte's reprieve,
0:20:26 > 0:20:28claimed there was evidence that she was innocent,
0:20:28 > 0:20:32and saying slogans like, "Don't take two lives for one."
0:20:34 > 0:20:37The prolific campaigner would rally support outside prisons
0:20:37 > 0:20:41up and down the country, calling for the abolition of the death penalty.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45She would hire a brass band to play the death march,
0:20:45 > 0:20:48and planes would fly overhead trailing black flags.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52On the morning of the execution at Exeter Prison,
0:20:52 > 0:20:55there were 4,000 people gathered outside,
0:20:55 > 0:20:59and she arrived driving her Rolls-Royce
0:20:59 > 0:21:01with her chauffeur sitting beside her.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04Obviously she didn't entrust this task to him,
0:21:04 > 0:21:07and there was a police cordon with a rope,
0:21:07 > 0:21:10and she drove straight through it - straight through the rope.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13The policemen scattered, and she was arrested,
0:21:13 > 0:21:18- and ended up in court herself, and was fined £5.- Right!
0:21:18 > 0:21:22Violet Van der Elst died almost penniless in 1966,
0:21:22 > 0:21:26one year after her goal was realised and capital punishment was outlawed.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32Roger's research has also unearthed some personal documents
0:21:32 > 0:21:34from Charlotte's time in prison,
0:21:34 > 0:21:36where she learned to read and write for the first time.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41Here is that letter with Charlotte's signature,
0:21:41 > 0:21:43so maybe you can have a look at that.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47So this is the letter that my grandmother dictated?
0:21:47 > 0:21:49Yes, and then signed.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52- And was... - And it's got her name at the bottom.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54HE GASPS
0:21:54 > 0:21:56Wow!
0:21:56 > 0:21:59It's quite moving, I think, that the last thing she wrote,
0:21:59 > 0:22:01and almost the first thing she wrote,
0:22:01 > 0:22:04was actually her plea for mercy.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09It's actually really difficult for me to read it.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12- Do you want me to read it? - Yes. Thank you.- Mmm.
0:22:12 > 0:22:18She says, "Sir, may I respectfully beg for your mercy in my case?
0:22:18 > 0:22:23"The date of my execution has been fixed for Wednesday next,
0:22:23 > 0:22:24"July the 15th...
0:22:25 > 0:22:29"..and I am not guilty of the offence I am charged with.
0:22:29 > 0:22:33"I humbly beg for the sake of my little children to spare my life.
0:22:33 > 0:22:37"I remain yours respectfully, Charlotte Bryant."
0:22:37 > 0:22:42And that is thought to be the last time she wrote her name...
0:22:42 > 0:22:44- Wow.- ..because she'd only just learned to write.
0:22:46 > 0:22:47Very emotional.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51I didn't think I would feel like this, but certainly,
0:22:51 > 0:22:57seeing the letters that had been written on my grandmother's behalf,
0:22:57 > 0:23:02and still maintaining her innocence, and also seeing her letter
0:23:02 > 0:23:04that was hand-signed by her -
0:23:04 > 0:23:08it's a very difficult part of the journey, I have to say.
0:23:08 > 0:23:12I was aware that a letter had been dictated,
0:23:12 > 0:23:15but I never thought that I'd ever see it.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22Can modern forensic science sift through the evidence
0:23:22 > 0:23:24to dispute Charlotte's guilty verdict?
0:23:26 > 0:23:29Jeremy and Sasha enlist medical historian, Sandra Hempel,
0:23:29 > 0:23:32to look at the use of poison in this era,
0:23:32 > 0:23:35and its infamy as a woman's weapon of choice in murder.
0:23:38 > 0:23:42We hear a lot of accounts of arsenic being used as a poison
0:23:42 > 0:23:48in the late 19th and first half of the 20th century, but not nowadays.
0:23:48 > 0:23:52- Why is that?- There just isn't arsenic around nowadays.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55It's not easily obtainable in the way that it was.
0:23:55 > 0:24:00I mean, it was all really people had as something to control rats
0:24:00 > 0:24:04and mice, as a pesticide, as an insecticide,
0:24:04 > 0:24:09so it was used very, very widely in homes and on the land.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12And what did it look like? What sort of form would it be in?
0:24:12 > 0:24:15Well, when they talk about arsenic as a poison,
0:24:15 > 0:24:18they actually mean arsenic trioxide,
0:24:18 > 0:24:21and that's a very harmless-looking white powder.
0:24:21 > 0:24:26Can you taste it? I mean, if you accidentally have some arsenic
0:24:26 > 0:24:28in a spoonful of sugar, would you know that?
0:24:28 > 0:24:30No. No, you really wouldn't.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34And not only is it tasteless - it dissolves, or rather disperses,
0:24:34 > 0:24:37very easily in warm food and drink.
0:24:37 > 0:24:42And how easy is it, would it be, for someone to be poisoned accidentally?
0:24:42 > 0:24:48Might he have over the years absorbed or consumed so much arsenic
0:24:48 > 0:24:50as to die of arsenic poisoning
0:24:50 > 0:24:52without any deliberate effort to kill him?
0:24:52 > 0:24:55In theory, he could. I think it's very, very unlikely,
0:24:55 > 0:24:59because it's very unlikely that he would be the only person...
0:24:59 > 0:25:04Have you come across cases of accidental death by arsenic?
0:25:04 > 0:25:08Not from the environment, in that very long, slow, drawn-out process,
0:25:08 > 0:25:10- which is what it would be.- Right.
0:25:10 > 0:25:15And why do you think it's known as the woman's weapon of choice?
0:25:15 > 0:25:19Well, poison generally was known as the woman's weapon of choice,
0:25:19 > 0:25:24because it seemed to be rather duplicitous and sneaky,
0:25:24 > 0:25:27and there was a perception in the 19th century
0:25:27 > 0:25:29that that's what women were like,
0:25:29 > 0:25:33and then there was the question of, women were always in charge
0:25:33 > 0:25:37of the sick room and the kitchen, so, you know, they would have access
0:25:37 > 0:25:40to people's food and people's medicine.
0:25:40 > 0:25:45So someone like Charlotte Bryant, whose character was vilified,
0:25:45 > 0:25:48she'd also have to battle in a trial against the prejudice
0:25:48 > 0:25:50that women like her might be more liable
0:25:50 > 0:25:52to poison their husband than a man.
0:25:52 > 0:25:56- Absolutely.- Would you agree with that?- No, absolutely, absolutely.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00Fred suffered repeated incidents of vomiting and diarrhoea
0:26:00 > 0:26:02along with muscle cramps -
0:26:02 > 0:26:05all classic symptoms of exposure to arsenic.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09Now that they know that it's unlikely that Fred's work
0:26:09 > 0:26:11as a farm hand would have been the cause
0:26:11 > 0:26:13of his fatal arsenic consumption,
0:26:13 > 0:26:16Jeremy and Sasha have asked toxicologist, David Osselton,
0:26:16 > 0:26:19to assist them in analysing the cause of Fred's death.
0:26:21 > 0:26:24You've seen the postmortem report.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27What are your feelings about the conclusions drawn in that report?
0:26:27 > 0:26:31Arsenic was detected in a number of the tissues,
0:26:31 > 0:26:35and put together with all of the case circumstances,
0:26:35 > 0:26:37the analyst at the time...
0:26:38 > 0:26:41..Dr Rush Lynch, came up with the conclusion
0:26:41 > 0:26:44that this was death by arsenic poisoning.
0:26:44 > 0:26:45Do you agree with that?
0:26:46 > 0:26:50The...certainly, the presence of high concentrations of arsenic,
0:26:50 > 0:26:54and some of the signs and symptoms that were observed
0:26:54 > 0:26:56would fit that diagnosis, yes.
0:26:56 > 0:27:01We know from the pathologist's report that four grains of arsenic,
0:27:01 > 0:27:05as it's been described, was recovered from Fred's body.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09In terms of modern weights and measures, what is a grain?
0:27:09 > 0:27:11A grain is approximately 65mg.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14Right, and in terms of what it looks like,
0:27:14 > 0:27:16would it be more than a teaspoon, less than a teaspoon...?
0:27:16 > 0:27:20Four grains would be... probably about a teaspoonful.
0:27:20 > 0:27:23So not something that could be ingested just by maybe
0:27:23 > 0:27:28having contact with the surface, and then putting it in your mouth?
0:27:28 > 0:27:31Oh, no, it would definitely be a quantity
0:27:31 > 0:27:33- that was introduced into the body. - Yes.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35Following on from that,
0:27:35 > 0:27:39the tin that I think we have photographed here,
0:27:39 > 0:27:44are you able to say whether it is more likely than not
0:27:44 > 0:27:47to have contained arsenic, from the testing that's been done?
0:27:47 > 0:27:53But there was a test undertaken on scrapings that came out of the tin.
0:27:53 > 0:27:54The inside of the tin.
0:27:54 > 0:27:57From the inside of the tin, and that was shown to contain
0:27:57 > 0:28:00a very significant concentration of arsenic.
0:28:00 > 0:28:02So what does that tell you?
0:28:02 > 0:28:05Well, it would indicate that the tin had contained arsenic.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07Rather than golden syrup?
0:28:07 > 0:28:10- Rather than golden syrup, absolutely, yes.- Right.
0:28:10 > 0:28:14Can I just ask one other question?
0:28:14 > 0:28:16We know that arsenic can be detected,
0:28:16 > 0:28:21if it's been ingested in the body, in a person's fingernails.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24Is that something that was present in this case, or not?
0:28:24 > 0:28:28Fingernails were analysed and arsenic was detected in them.
0:28:28 > 0:28:33That's an interesting point, because fingernails grow quite slowly.
0:28:33 > 0:28:36It's about a third of a centimetre a month,
0:28:36 > 0:28:40so that could potentially be from earlier doses.
0:28:40 > 0:28:45So the fingernail arsenic, if I can call it that, suggested what?
0:28:45 > 0:28:47It suggests that arsenic had been ingested
0:28:47 > 0:28:49perhaps sometime beforehand.
0:28:49 > 0:28:50Thank you very much.
0:28:51 > 0:28:55I was concerned originally about the cause of death in this case.
0:28:55 > 0:28:57Having spoken to the toxicologist,
0:28:57 > 0:29:02it seems quite clear that this was a deliberate poisoning -
0:29:02 > 0:29:04the poison in question being arsenic -
0:29:04 > 0:29:07so cause of death has pretty much been locked down.
0:29:08 > 0:29:13I'm also interested in previous attempts at poisoning,
0:29:13 > 0:29:16which are suggested from the fingernail evidence,
0:29:16 > 0:29:21and although this is not conclusive, it dovetails with the previous bouts
0:29:21 > 0:29:25of what was considered at the time to be gastroenteritis,
0:29:25 > 0:29:28which now may well be attempts at poisoning.
0:29:30 > 0:29:34The tin evidence is much stronger than I originally thought.
0:29:34 > 0:29:38It's now clear that it contains large amounts of arsenic,
0:29:38 > 0:29:42so all in all, the toxicological evidence leads me to suggest
0:29:42 > 0:29:43that the prosecution case
0:29:43 > 0:29:47is stronger than I originally considered it to be.
0:29:48 > 0:29:50I was particularly interested in what Sandra,
0:29:50 > 0:29:56the medical historian, had to say about the concept of poison being
0:29:56 > 0:29:58regarded as a woman's weapon,
0:29:58 > 0:30:02and the prejudice that would have resulted
0:30:02 > 0:30:04in the direction of Charlotte Bryant as a consequence,
0:30:04 > 0:30:06so that was very useful.
0:30:06 > 0:30:11On the question of the toxicologist, I have to accept, as things stand,
0:30:11 > 0:30:15that aspect of his evidence reinforced the probability
0:30:15 > 0:30:20that this was a deliberate case of poisoning, but of course,
0:30:20 > 0:30:22that doesn't rule out Lucy Ostler, or anybody else.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29As David and William come to the end of their exploration
0:30:29 > 0:30:30of their family's story,
0:30:30 > 0:30:34they visit Charlotte's final resting place, Exeter Prison.
0:30:36 > 0:30:42This is where my grandmother hung back in July 1936.
0:30:43 > 0:30:47She was also buried here in unconsecrated ground,
0:30:47 > 0:30:50and I think for me, this is going to be the most difficult part
0:30:50 > 0:30:51of the journey,
0:30:51 > 0:30:53and I'm absolutely sure it's going to be
0:30:53 > 0:30:55the most difficult part of the journey for my father.
0:30:56 > 0:30:58There you are, Mum.
0:30:58 > 0:31:01I never knew you, love, but you'll always be with me...
0:31:03 > 0:31:05..in my heart forever.
0:31:05 > 0:31:07I'll never forget you.
0:31:08 > 0:31:10It's more emotional than I thought it was going to be.
0:31:10 > 0:31:16It's putting into context how times have changed in every respect,
0:31:16 > 0:31:20whether it be for five children that were left parentless,
0:31:20 > 0:31:26whether it was circumstantial evidence that was put together
0:31:26 > 0:31:29for a conviction, and then a hanging,
0:31:29 > 0:31:34and a burial in unconsecrated ground within the grounds of a prison -
0:31:34 > 0:31:38it's all a massive journey.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41How do you say goodbye to somebody you never knew?
0:31:41 > 0:31:42But...
0:31:42 > 0:31:47you know, just...hold it in your heart, and live with it.
0:31:47 > 0:31:51Although they were his mother and father, he never knew them,
0:31:51 > 0:31:55so the bond that you get with someone when you actually know them,
0:31:55 > 0:31:59and you can see them and touch them and talk to them, you develop,
0:31:59 > 0:32:01whereas if you haven't really known them,
0:32:01 > 0:32:06there's a massive piece of the jigsaw that's missing.
0:32:06 > 0:32:07I love you, Mum.
0:32:11 > 0:32:12I didn't have much time with you.
0:32:14 > 0:32:19I think he's suppressed lots of feelings for a very long time.
0:32:20 > 0:32:22Give a kiss to Mum.
0:32:26 > 0:32:27HE SNIFFS
0:32:30 > 0:32:33It's something that has been in our family
0:32:33 > 0:32:36that hasn't really been talked about,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39and let's hope that the findings come out
0:32:39 > 0:32:41that Charlotte was innocent,
0:32:41 > 0:32:44and actually, none of this needed to have happened.
0:32:51 > 0:32:53With judgment day fast approaching,
0:32:53 > 0:32:55Jeremy has made a startling discovery -
0:32:55 > 0:32:57a detailed police report that shows
0:32:57 > 0:33:00that Lucy Ostler was interviewed at least half a dozen times,
0:33:00 > 0:33:04and that her statement changed significantly over time.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07Well, Sasha, my concern is this -
0:33:07 > 0:33:09that I've seen a police report,
0:33:09 > 0:33:12and what that police report tells us is, quote,
0:33:12 > 0:33:17"From the commencement, Mrs Ostler was regarded with suspicion.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20"By the 19th of January, it was still plain
0:33:20 > 0:33:22"that she was holding something back,
0:33:22 > 0:33:25"and I spent about eight hours with her,
0:33:25 > 0:33:29"and subsequently her demeanour changed..."
0:33:29 > 0:33:34and her statement became, he says, "Spontaneous and convincing."
0:33:34 > 0:33:36There's a stench about this -
0:33:36 > 0:33:39probably wouldn't even be admissible in the modern time,
0:33:39 > 0:33:41- as you well know. - Oh, absolutely not.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43It wouldn't even see the light of day.
0:33:43 > 0:33:45So I don't agree that the jury were in a position
0:33:45 > 0:33:46to assess her evidence.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48In fact, they were in no position to assess her evidence,
0:33:48 > 0:33:52cos they didn't know about this scenario, it seems.
0:33:52 > 0:33:57My feeling about Charlotte Bryant's case is that it was a weak case -
0:33:57 > 0:34:00that she was the obvious suspect.
0:34:00 > 0:34:03She was illiterate, vulnerable,
0:34:03 > 0:34:06so she was ripe to be wrongly convicted.
0:34:08 > 0:34:11At first blush, I thought this was quite a thin case
0:34:11 > 0:34:15where the prosecution evidence was not very substantial.
0:34:15 > 0:34:20We've now interviewed experts, and I have to say, my view has changed.
0:34:20 > 0:34:25We now know with some certainty that Fred Bryant died
0:34:25 > 0:34:28as a result of deliberate arsenic poisoning.
0:34:28 > 0:34:33We also know arsenic found under the nails would give support to the fact
0:34:33 > 0:34:38that the previous incidents were attempts at poisoning him.
0:34:38 > 0:34:41And, of course, we know that the burnt-out tin
0:34:41 > 0:34:43did indeed contain arsenic.
0:34:43 > 0:34:48I still am of the view that this was a circumstantial case,
0:34:48 > 0:34:51but I'm not sure from what I've seen
0:34:51 > 0:34:55that this is a miscarriage of justice.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01Sasha and Jeremy have opposing arguments to put before
0:35:01 > 0:35:03Judge David Radford, who will give his view
0:35:03 > 0:35:06as to whether the original verdict was safe or unsafe.
0:35:07 > 0:35:08For William and David, however,
0:35:08 > 0:35:12today marks the end of a very personal look
0:35:12 > 0:35:14into their family's tragic past.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17I was 35 when I first found out about this,
0:35:17 > 0:35:22so I'm really looking forward to hearing if there's anything new,
0:35:22 > 0:35:25and it would be a fantastic situation
0:35:25 > 0:35:28if we find out that Charlotte was innocent.
0:35:31 > 0:35:35They can't overturn what's gone on before.
0:35:35 > 0:35:36I'll have to accept that.
0:35:38 > 0:35:41And I'm just hoping...hoping...
0:35:42 > 0:35:46..that the outcome will be a little different.
0:35:46 > 0:35:49Obviously we're going to both be putting forward the arguments
0:35:49 > 0:35:50to the judge.
0:35:50 > 0:35:53Neither of us know how the judge will rule -
0:35:53 > 0:35:56it's a complete mystery to us, as it is to you.
0:35:56 > 0:35:59Do you feel able to deal with the process?
0:35:59 > 0:36:01Oh, yes, I think so.
0:36:01 > 0:36:03Yes, I mean, it's bound to be stressful.
0:36:03 > 0:36:07- I've gathered myself together again, so...- All right.
0:36:07 > 0:36:11Judge David Radford will treat Jeremy and Sasha's submissions
0:36:11 > 0:36:13as he would a real case,
0:36:13 > 0:36:16and he will give his expert opinion based on the evidence.
0:36:18 > 0:36:22We are here today so that I can consider
0:36:22 > 0:36:29the safety of the conviction of Mrs Bryant for murder of her husband.
0:36:30 > 0:36:38It's going to be my task now to hear the submissions of learned counsel
0:36:38 > 0:36:43as to whether or not that conviction is arguably unsafe.
0:36:43 > 0:36:47Mr Dein, on behalf of the defence, do you wish to make submission...?
0:36:47 > 0:36:48Yes, your honour, please.
0:36:50 > 0:36:53What has emerged in the course of this inquiry
0:36:53 > 0:36:56is a 54-page police report.
0:36:56 > 0:37:03Now, it's my submission that this material, evidently not available
0:37:03 > 0:37:07to the defence, shows that all of Lucy Ostler's statements
0:37:07 > 0:37:12were the product of unrecorded police questioning.
0:37:12 > 0:37:17Therefore, one will never know how her statements came about.
0:37:17 > 0:37:22Secondly, the vital weedkiller tin statement on the 19th of January
0:37:22 > 0:37:25was the direct product of a whole day
0:37:25 > 0:37:28of unrecorded discussion with police.
0:37:28 > 0:37:30That's eight hours.
0:37:30 > 0:37:34Thirdly, how is it in the course of that eight-hour period,
0:37:34 > 0:37:37Lucy Ostler's statement changed completely?
0:37:37 > 0:37:42So, in conclusion, had this material been available to the jury,
0:37:42 > 0:37:45the jury's verdict might have been different.
0:37:45 > 0:37:48My submission is that there is a real risk
0:37:48 > 0:37:51that there has been a miscarriage of justice here.
0:37:51 > 0:37:53Thank you very much, Mr Dein.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55And Miss Wass, you wish to respond?
0:37:55 > 0:38:01Yes. Your Honour, may I take you back to the scientific evidence
0:38:01 > 0:38:06in this case, because we had the opportunity of taking advice
0:38:06 > 0:38:12from a toxicologist, and what has emerged is the following.
0:38:12 > 0:38:16Firstly, that the deceased died
0:38:16 > 0:38:22as a result of a deliberate ingestion of arsenic.
0:38:22 > 0:38:26Secondly, the tin that was so controversial
0:38:26 > 0:38:30did indeed contain quite large traces of arsenic.
0:38:30 > 0:38:34And the third point that David Osselton made
0:38:34 > 0:38:36which is highly significant
0:38:36 > 0:38:40is that the deceased's fingernails indicated
0:38:40 > 0:38:45that there had been previous episodes of arsenic poisoning.
0:38:45 > 0:38:50And most importantly, the jury saw Mrs Ostler -
0:38:50 > 0:38:53they were able to assess her credibility -
0:38:53 > 0:38:56and contrary to what Mr Dein has submitted,
0:38:56 > 0:38:59this was not cursory cross-examination -
0:38:59 > 0:39:01this was very forceful.
0:39:01 > 0:39:05So, for those reasons and with regret,
0:39:05 > 0:39:11we fundamentally disagree with the submissions made by Mr Dein.
0:39:11 > 0:39:12Thank you, Miss Wass.
0:39:12 > 0:39:17Well, I shall take time now to evaluate those submissions,
0:39:17 > 0:39:22and then shortly will give my judgment about the matter.
0:39:24 > 0:39:26David and William are hoping the judge will agree
0:39:26 > 0:39:30with Jeremy's submission that Charlotte's conviction was unsafe.
0:39:31 > 0:39:35Did someone deliberately poison Fred Bryant?
0:39:35 > 0:39:38Was his wife the only suspect considered by police?
0:39:39 > 0:39:43Did the prosecution's key witness change her story under pressure?
0:39:46 > 0:39:49The judge is now ready to give his verdict.
0:39:51 > 0:39:56I have now had an opportunity of considering the helpful submissions
0:39:56 > 0:39:58made by both leading counsel.
0:39:58 > 0:40:02It is now my duty to make clear my view of this matter.
0:40:03 > 0:40:06One has to look at the disclosure,
0:40:06 > 0:40:13which was not made, in the context of the report itself.
0:40:13 > 0:40:17In the report, and the passage referring to Mrs Ostler
0:40:17 > 0:40:21"holding something back," that was, of course,
0:40:21 > 0:40:26an opinion expressed by a police officer at one point in time.
0:40:26 > 0:40:31It's also to be noted that the suspicion harboured by the police
0:40:31 > 0:40:34at the commencement in relation to Mrs Ostler,
0:40:34 > 0:40:39the report itself goes on to say, was lessened as time went on,
0:40:39 > 0:40:45because the information she did supply was capable of corroboration,
0:40:45 > 0:40:52and that her statement that she made was spontaneous and convincing.
0:40:52 > 0:40:57Of course, eight hours is a long time for a statement to be taken,
0:40:57 > 0:41:02but there is no evidence here of any lack of integrity by the police.
0:41:02 > 0:41:07So I have concluded that the disclosure really would not
0:41:07 > 0:41:12have assisted the defence in any proper and real way.
0:41:12 > 0:41:18Overall, this was undoubtedly a very strong case, in my view,
0:41:18 > 0:41:20against the defendant.
0:41:20 > 0:41:23It was, as it always is, a matter for the jury
0:41:23 > 0:41:25to determine where the truth lay,
0:41:25 > 0:41:29and whether they were satisfied of the accused's guilt.
0:41:29 > 0:41:33They were so satisfied, and in my judgment,
0:41:33 > 0:41:35there is nothing now which properly,
0:41:35 > 0:41:43legally, could recommend to me to reinvestigate this conviction.
0:41:46 > 0:41:47I shall rise.
0:41:52 > 0:41:54- DAVID:- Mixed emotions, really,
0:41:54 > 0:41:58because either the evidence was going to be sound or not sound,
0:41:58 > 0:42:01and either way, there was going to be awkward feelings,
0:42:01 > 0:42:06because if she was not guilty, then her life was taken in vain.
0:42:06 > 0:42:12If she is guilty, then, you know, we've got a murderer in the family,
0:42:12 > 0:42:14and either way, it was going to be very difficult.
0:42:14 > 0:42:15Thank you, Sasha.
0:42:15 > 0:42:18- Bye-bye, bye-bye, nice to meet you. - Yep, nice to meet you both.
0:42:18 > 0:42:22It was a very different disclosure regime in the 1930s,
0:42:22 > 0:42:24but the judge took the view that even if the defence
0:42:24 > 0:42:28had been provided with that report,
0:42:28 > 0:42:30it actually wouldn't have helped them,
0:42:30 > 0:42:33and wouldn't have made any difference to the case,
0:42:33 > 0:42:37so I'm not altogether surprised by the verdict of the judge.
0:42:39 > 0:42:42I think as it started, it seemed to be going our way,
0:42:42 > 0:42:44in actual fact, but...
0:42:46 > 0:42:49..halfway through, the tide turned, I'm afraid,
0:42:49 > 0:42:54and I began to accept the fact that what went on before...
0:42:55 > 0:42:57Well, I suppose, was the truth.