0:00:15 > 0:00:20Well, when you first come in, it takes you...easy a year.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24To figure this place out, to get used to it.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28To get your mind set for it.
0:00:28 > 0:00:32After that, it's just... time blends together around here.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34You forget what day it is, you forget what date it is,
0:00:34 > 0:00:36and you know, it's...
0:00:37 > 0:00:38That's all it is, is just...
0:00:40 > 0:00:41It's just...
0:00:51 > 0:00:55To start off, my first-ever crime was...
0:00:55 > 0:00:58I think I was about 12.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02I got arrested for stealing a packet of lighters out of Tesco's...
0:01:02 > 0:01:05and then, as we go on, it just got worse and worse every time.
0:01:10 > 0:01:14I was just young and dumb. You know what I mean?
0:01:14 > 0:01:16Everything out of perspective.
0:01:21 > 0:01:26We were just running about the streets, just as kids. Just...
0:01:26 > 0:01:29I don't even know how to explain it, it's...
0:01:29 > 0:01:32It's just, one thing led to another. You know what I mean?
0:01:34 > 0:01:38It started off with assaulting police...
0:01:38 > 0:01:43and then it ended up...me being in here for a life sentence.
0:02:49 > 0:02:51People might say on the outside, "Slap it up you."
0:02:51 > 0:02:52They've got a right to say it.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57We are criminals. We do deserve everything we get.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02We don't deserve anything, any good things.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11You have to keep your mind ticking.
0:03:11 > 0:03:16If you sit and you wallow over your thoughts too much, it can be hard.
0:03:18 > 0:03:20We use drugs to cover it all up.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25That's why we take cocaine, to get rid of the demons in our head.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Before I went and done anything, I'd have took a line of coke.
0:03:29 > 0:03:30To get rid of all the fear.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32This was, mainly, drugs are used for.
0:03:34 > 0:03:35I mean, you're going to do a wee touch
0:03:35 > 0:03:36or you're going to do a wee job,
0:03:36 > 0:03:38you're feeling a wee tingle in your stomach -
0:03:38 > 0:03:39a line of coke.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Couple of lines of pure, that gets rid of it.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50My daddy died before I was born, in a flat fire.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52He was a soldier. My mummy...
0:03:53 > 0:03:56That's the thing about it, Ma was always drinking.
0:03:56 > 0:03:57She was never happy.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Do you know what I mean? It's like...
0:04:00 > 0:04:02We don't drink around Christmas,
0:04:02 > 0:04:04and someone says to me last week,
0:04:04 > 0:04:05"Why do you not drink around Christmas?"
0:04:05 > 0:04:08Cos I always remember waking up on Christmas morning and...
0:04:08 > 0:04:09Not that you don't have many toys,
0:04:09 > 0:04:12but the toys you had, you went to play with them
0:04:12 > 0:04:14and my so-called mother coming our stairs,
0:04:14 > 0:04:16"Argh, keep the noise down, I'm not well!"
0:04:16 > 0:04:18It's not that she wasn't well. She had a hangover.
0:04:20 > 0:04:24So tell me about school, then. What do you recall from that?
0:04:24 > 0:04:27I hated it. Every day I was going in, I was getting...
0:04:27 > 0:04:29getting kicked about the school, I was getting bullied,
0:04:29 > 0:04:31and I was getting this, that and the other -
0:04:31 > 0:04:32and don't get me wrong,
0:04:32 > 0:04:34it's made me the person, the strong person I am now.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36There'll be nobody bullying me now, like...
0:04:36 > 0:04:38but they're all bad memories.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40Even if wasn't it wasn't my own cousins baiting me,
0:04:40 > 0:04:43it was the teachers baiting me, and stuff like that,
0:04:43 > 0:04:45and fairly early went in,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48and I worked on the stalls from a young age.
0:04:48 > 0:04:50Do you know, in Belfast city centre?
0:04:50 > 0:04:52Well, we were always dodging school to go and do something else,
0:04:52 > 0:04:55hanging about with older people and stuff like that.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59And I think that's why I ended up a criminal lifestyle,
0:04:59 > 0:05:01do you know what I mean?
0:05:02 > 0:05:04Get into selling drugs and stuff,
0:05:04 > 0:05:07and that seemed more appealing than going to school
0:05:07 > 0:05:10and getting kicked around the playground was.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13Because running about with older people,
0:05:13 > 0:05:15and you get more respect from them ones, do you know what I mean?
0:05:15 > 0:05:17Maybe it was you only got respect
0:05:17 > 0:05:19because they had you out selling their drugs
0:05:19 > 0:05:21or they had you out stealing, but back then, it didn't matter.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24Just that wee bit of respect meant a hell of a lot.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Relax a wee bit more now, you know what I mean? A wee smoke and stuff.
0:05:48 > 0:05:49So...
0:05:54 > 0:05:56I'll show you my pic... That's my pic...
0:05:56 > 0:05:58That's my pictures of my son up there, you know what I mean?
0:05:58 > 0:06:00That's him up there and stuff.
0:06:00 > 0:06:01Those pictures of my son.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Keeps you happy, you know what I mean?
0:06:07 > 0:06:09A few pictures of your son in the cell.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11It keeps you happy, keeps you preoccupied.
0:06:11 > 0:06:12Know what I mean?
0:06:12 > 0:06:15And then you're you have your TV and stuff, and the hi-fi.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17Know what I mean? Just whenever you get bored of TV,
0:06:17 > 0:06:18just fire on the hi-fi
0:06:18 > 0:06:20and listen to a bit of music, you know what I mean?
0:06:21 > 0:06:24But aye, after a good while, you get used to that there,
0:06:24 > 0:06:27you know what I mean? You do, you get used to being locked.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30So you do.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40Aye, you get used to it.
0:06:40 > 0:06:41Being locked.
0:06:43 > 0:06:44Aye.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51Aye, the family background was good, so it was, yeah.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53My mum and dad, and then...
0:06:53 > 0:06:54they split and stuff, and then...
0:06:54 > 0:06:57You know what I mean? But life was good, you know? It was good.
0:06:57 > 0:06:58Then I started...
0:06:58 > 0:07:00Well, obviously missing school and stuff,
0:07:00 > 0:07:03and that's whenever I started getting into trouble, so it was.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Started from then. So it was.
0:07:05 > 0:07:07I started getting into trouble, and then,
0:07:07 > 0:07:11I ended up going to Hydebank for a fine. So I did.
0:07:11 > 0:07:12So then, from Hydebank on,
0:07:12 > 0:07:15then I started coming in and out of jail, so I did.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17In and out, in and out. You know what I mean?
0:07:19 > 0:07:20No point in lying,
0:07:20 > 0:07:22I was pretty worried, the first time coming to prison.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24Second time, obviously, Maghaberry.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26I went to Maghaberry prison.
0:07:26 > 0:07:31I was a bit worried the second time, nervous, stuff like that,
0:07:31 > 0:07:32you know what I mean? You're going to prison,
0:07:32 > 0:07:35you don't know who you're going to meet in prison...
0:07:35 > 0:07:40and then the...third time, I was getting more comfortable with it.
0:07:40 > 0:07:41I was like, you know, "Hold on, this is...
0:07:41 > 0:07:43"This isn't," do you know what I mean?
0:07:43 > 0:07:46You do, you sort of... You adjust to it, you adjust to prison.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49You adjust to prison life, so you do, you do.
0:08:00 > 0:08:04My record, I would be... theft, drugs, supplying drugs,
0:08:04 > 0:08:10intent to supply class-A and class-B controlled drugs. More theft.
0:08:10 > 0:08:11It's mainly theft and drugs.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14That's what it's been, it's theft and drugs, theft and drugs.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19Which is - theft is like breaking in the old, like, buildings,
0:08:19 > 0:08:21stealing scrap and stuff.
0:08:21 > 0:08:25That would have been all my theft crimes, you know, like.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28Got caught with coke one time, an ounce of coke, so I did.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32That was the same thing. With intent...
0:08:32 > 0:08:36Well, no, it was supplying class-A drugs, so it was.
0:08:39 > 0:08:43It's all been drugs, drugs, drugs. Supplying drugs, supplying drugs.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47That's been the story of my life, you know? Just supplying drugs.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10Been coming in and out of jail 30 years.
0:09:11 > 0:09:12Hasn't been easy.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16It's OK when you're drinking...
0:09:18 > 0:09:21..but then, trouble starts...
0:09:21 > 0:09:24and when trouble starts, I can't handle it.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28So I would get myself into trouble,
0:09:28 > 0:09:30cos I'm out of control with the drink.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35As I lie here for the day, I'm in control.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38I wouldn't harm a hair on your head sober...
0:09:40 > 0:09:43..but I'm not responsible for what I do when I'm drunk.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48I was very angry as a child...
0:09:51 > 0:09:54..and I was very angry as a grown-up...
0:09:56 > 0:09:59..but I'm not angry any more. I'm in control.
0:09:59 > 0:10:02I'm more in control of it,
0:10:02 > 0:10:06where I was out of control until I came in here.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09Why were you angry?
0:10:09 > 0:10:13I was angry at a lot of stuff that had happened in my life...
0:10:13 > 0:10:16and I wouldn't like to go into detail about it.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20And, um...
0:10:20 > 0:10:25Just a lot of stuff, a lot of horrible stuff...
0:10:25 > 0:10:27that happened when I was young...
0:10:29 > 0:10:32..and it led me to be the person that I am today.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45I don't want to be that person I was when I came through these doors.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51I just don't want to be that raving lunatic I was.
0:10:54 > 0:11:00But see this place? It's being used for a mental institution, as well.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03Because there's people in here shouldn't even be here.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06They should be in mental institutions...
0:11:11 > 0:11:14..but at the end of the day, I have to face my demons...
0:11:16 > 0:11:18..and they come up every now and again...
0:11:18 > 0:11:22when the big green door's locked, behind the big green door.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25Your head goes flying off your shoulders
0:11:25 > 0:11:28when you've done the things that I've done.
0:11:29 > 0:11:31Like, I have a record that would...
0:11:33 > 0:11:36My God, it would decorate this room.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38That's how bad it is...
0:11:38 > 0:11:42and that's nothing to be proud of. Nothing.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59We know in Northern Ireland there would be a higher than usual
0:11:59 > 0:12:01incidence of mental health issues.
0:12:01 > 0:12:05And the prison population is really a reflection of what goes on
0:12:05 > 0:12:06in broader society.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14We know from looking at what we understand about the health
0:12:14 > 0:12:18status of individuals coming into custody,
0:12:18 > 0:12:21about one in four people will have a stated mental health issue.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29So that can be people dealing with issues of anxiety up to very
0:12:29 > 0:12:32significant issues in terms of their mental health and whether
0:12:32 > 0:12:36or not they have a diagnosis in terms of mental health provision or,
0:12:36 > 0:12:38indeed, personality disorder.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44Of course, the start point is it's not a problem for prisons.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47It's a problem for the wider community.
0:12:47 > 0:12:49And in the wider community,
0:12:49 > 0:12:53prisons are very much at the end of the queue.
0:12:55 > 0:13:01We are quite successful in the interventions that we do have.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03But there's more work to be...
0:13:03 > 0:13:08That needs to be done for people who are violent and aggressive.
0:13:09 > 0:13:11And that's the challenge.
0:13:11 > 0:13:12But those people,
0:13:12 > 0:13:16those patients, would be a challenge anywhere and in
0:13:16 > 0:13:18a custodial environment,
0:13:18 > 0:13:21it's not a therapeutic place
0:13:21 > 0:13:25and society and the inspectorates
0:13:25 > 0:13:29require us to do the very best
0:13:29 > 0:13:33that we can in difficult
0:13:33 > 0:13:38circumstances and sometimes our best isn't good enough.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01I've actually met a load of my mates in here, so I have,
0:14:01 > 0:14:02over my years in here.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05I was actually speaking to one yesterday.
0:14:05 > 0:14:07He's getting out tomorrow.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10He was actually one of my mates that I run about with outside.
0:14:12 > 0:14:14I haven't seen him in years.
0:14:14 > 0:14:19And then you... This is somewhere where everybody goes to meet.
0:14:24 > 0:14:27I went to a couple of different schools.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30I wasn't too bad in primary school but at secondary school I was
0:14:30 > 0:14:33a bit more of a tearaway, so I was.
0:14:36 > 0:14:37I went to Laurel Hill.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39I just got expelled, so I did,
0:14:39 > 0:14:43And then I went to Lisnagarvey.
0:14:43 > 0:14:47Calmed down a bit and finished off right through to fifth year.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50So I ended up, I actually got through all my years in school.
0:14:50 > 0:14:55Left with a couple of GCSEs and things there but not much.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59Just...messing about a bit too much.
0:15:01 > 0:15:05Just started off with wee stupid things, running about with mates.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09Getting into trouble and as I got older,
0:15:09 > 0:15:14we all started drinking and started getting into more serious trouble.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21So drink has been a big factor in your life?
0:15:23 > 0:15:29Not a big factor in my life but just a big factor in my criminal life.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36No, it's... I'm not really a violent person,
0:15:36 > 0:15:41then... It's a whole load of drinking...
0:15:56 > 0:15:58Background was actually all right.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01I just grew up on a Protestant estate, you know.
0:16:02 > 0:16:06Got off a wee bit with paramilitaries and stuff, you know.
0:16:06 > 0:16:08Family where I was brought up was good, you know.
0:16:08 > 0:16:09I was always looked after.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12Got what I want that way but... once you get involved with
0:16:12 > 0:16:17other boys and you end up starting in the drugs trade and all
0:16:17 > 0:16:20that there and next minute you end up in prison, you know.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24See, I was always all right.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28I think it was when I came into the drugs, it was a big part of it.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31You know, it was all smoking a wee bit of cannabis here and there and stuff
0:16:31 > 0:16:36and then I started taking blues - they were just a nightmare for anybody.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38I ended up going downhill quick on them.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47I was getting up in the morning, going out there and I was
0:16:47 > 0:16:50getting a load of blues, 1,000 of the for very cheap money, you know.
0:16:50 > 0:16:54You were selling them, making a couple of quid back,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57plus the money you were getting was paying for the next bunch.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01Then the next minute, you're sitting with 500, 600 tablets
0:17:01 > 0:17:03and I'd just eat them like Smarties.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06You were getting up ten in the morning
0:17:06 > 0:17:08and two hours later another ten,
0:17:08 > 0:17:09a couple of hours later another ten,
0:17:09 > 0:17:12and you're forgetting you were even eating the first couple.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14You were buying another ten and another ten.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16Just a vicious circle.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21Then the next minute... cos you're selling on the estate
0:17:21 > 0:17:24and doing things wrong, you get involved with paramilitaries
0:17:24 > 0:17:26and getting beatings and getting shot at,
0:17:26 > 0:17:28just things like that there.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32Just walking home one night from my mate's house,
0:17:32 > 0:17:35two cars pulled up and I was just trailed into the car.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37There was nowhere I could go, you know.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40Sitting in the back of the car, all woolly masks on.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43I didn't know who it was or anything
0:17:43 > 0:17:46then took down a lane, a wee place down the side of us.
0:17:46 > 0:17:47All trees and that.
0:17:47 > 0:17:48Trailed down there.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51Told to get on my two knees with my two arms out
0:17:51 > 0:17:53and they had a baseball bat.
0:17:53 > 0:17:55Snapped both elbows, you know.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57Left me down there.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03Sometimes you're walking down and there's maybe six or seven of them
0:18:03 > 0:18:05standing there. You've nowhere to go.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08You have to walk into the middle of them and you're getting digs
0:18:08 > 0:18:09from all over the place,
0:18:09 > 0:18:12boots to the face and they're jumping all over you.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15The next minute, you know, you turn around and they're all gone.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18You're lying there busted open, blood everywhere.
0:18:19 > 0:18:20HE SNIFFS
0:18:22 > 0:18:24- It didn't stop you?- No.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44As far back as I can remember, I've always took drugs from a very,
0:18:44 > 0:18:46very, very young age.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50Sniffing glue and then went from glue to cannabis and...
0:18:50 > 0:18:51oh, it was great.
0:18:51 > 0:18:53It was... Do you know what I mean?
0:18:53 > 0:18:56There was this drug where you smoked it and you just felt amazing.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02Just relaxed and chilled out, and then I started selling them.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05It was always about making money.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08All right, you were ducking and diving the Provies,
0:19:08 > 0:19:09do you know what I mean?
0:19:09 > 0:19:11Because they didn't like drugs in their area but,
0:19:11 > 0:19:14sure, you were always ducking and diving the Provies.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17You were... I was a hood. That's what we were classed as,
0:19:17 > 0:19:20as hoods, because we were out stealing and doing bits and pieces.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28And then once you found coke you grew a set of clinkers,
0:19:28 > 0:19:29as they call it, do you know what I mean?
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Before, it was all about relaxing and forgetting about your problems.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35Take a line of coke and you are ready to take the world on.
0:19:35 > 0:19:37And once you get into it,
0:19:37 > 0:19:39why would you go back to being that scared wee boy
0:19:39 > 0:19:42when you could take a wee line of something and the world's your oyster?
0:19:44 > 0:19:46And then you start taking more and then you realise,
0:19:46 > 0:19:48"Jeez, I could get money for this."
0:19:50 > 0:19:52If I want it, I'll take it - that was my attitude.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58Selling drugs, stealing copper.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00Copper for a good few years for the price of it.
0:20:02 > 0:20:06When the government goes to war, the price of raw materials goes
0:20:06 > 0:20:10through the roof so... You look at... It's marketing skills.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12I know it sounds stupid.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15Some people will be watching this thinking, "What are you talking about?"
0:20:15 > 0:20:17You've got to look at what the value is in.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26This perception people have that you'd just be a drug dealer, you don't.
0:20:26 > 0:20:27You're a salesman.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30You've got to provide for your customers, anything they want.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35And a good salesman, you think about the days when they had a briefcase.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37The didn't have one item, they had 20 items.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42Do you know what I mean? Because you can't... You've got to cover everything.
0:20:42 > 0:20:44And that's... There's days where people let you down.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47You could be selling an ounce of coke to somebody.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50They let you down - how are you paying your supplier?
0:20:50 > 0:20:53Can't just go, "Our kid, I haven't got that."
0:20:53 > 0:20:55If you haven't got that money,
0:20:55 > 0:20:56you're getting shot.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00It's the same in the jail. You hustle in the jail, too.
0:21:00 > 0:21:02I write poems for other prisoners.
0:21:02 > 0:21:04Charge them a tin of tuna.
0:21:04 > 0:21:05Do you know, you do hankies.
0:21:05 > 0:21:06Two tins of tuna.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09It's all about turning a profit.
0:21:10 > 0:21:14You can't be a criminal and just say, "I just sell drugs,"
0:21:14 > 0:21:17or, "I'm just a thief." Anyone who says that is talking shit.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20Do you know what I mean? If you're a criminal, you're out to get money.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23There's only one way you're turning to crime and that's for the money.
0:21:23 > 0:21:24It's all about the money.
0:21:35 > 0:21:37The main drug of choice
0:21:37 > 0:21:41that I would have took a lot would've been coke and grass.
0:21:41 > 0:21:43I would have took a lot of coke and grass.
0:21:46 > 0:21:50And that's just... You're looking out the window all the time,
0:21:50 > 0:21:54always thinking somebody's there, and whenever you have trouble with
0:21:54 > 0:21:58the police, they're stopping you, they're searching you, you know.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00Like, say I walk up through the town. There's the police.
0:22:00 > 0:22:04They fly up behind me and obviously a couple of cars and they're
0:22:04 > 0:22:07jumping out the cars and they're grabbing you. They're searching you,
0:22:07 > 0:22:10seizing your mobile phone, and it's just...
0:22:10 > 0:22:13And obviously you get angry with it, you know.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19You do, you get angry because, like,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22it's not an everyday occurrence with people, is it? Like, walking
0:22:22 > 0:22:25through the town and obviously three or four police cars surrounding them.
0:22:25 > 0:22:29Your house is getting raided as well. That's another thing.
0:22:29 > 0:22:30You have police all over the house
0:22:30 > 0:22:32and you have police sitting out the back.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35You have police sitting down the road. You have police watching you.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39And then, obviously, the more coke you take, the more paranoid you get then.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41Then you don't know if you can trust anybody.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44That's the next thing then. You don't know who you can trust.
0:22:48 > 0:22:49Because I have done a lot of jail...
0:22:51 > 0:22:52..so I have.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55I've done a lot of jail and then there's ones that's just never
0:22:55 > 0:22:56in jail.
0:22:56 > 0:23:00Then you get paranoid with them. You're like, "Hold on,
0:23:00 > 0:23:03"I'm doing all this jail and these ones are never in jail," and then you do,
0:23:03 > 0:23:07you get paranoid and more paranoia kicks in, so it does.
0:23:16 > 0:23:20There's been a lot happened through my life and a lot's built up inside.
0:23:22 > 0:23:23And that does.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26It builds up and it builds up and builds up and builds up, then...
0:23:26 > 0:23:28There's been a lot happened in my life.
0:23:31 > 0:23:32There's been a lot, like.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35You know, and then, you can only take so much.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39And then, obviously, I lashed out.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41Obviously, it all built up.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45And then all that anger came out on your man.
0:23:46 > 0:23:48Which I totally disagree with.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51I shouldn't have... Shouldn't have done it, like, so I shouldn't have.
0:24:09 > 0:24:11I love living here at the minute.
0:24:11 > 0:24:13I have only 12 weeks to go.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15And it'll fly in,
0:24:15 > 0:24:17so it will.
0:24:17 > 0:24:21This place has given me a stability
0:24:21 > 0:24:25to stable myself for getting out.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27And I have children out there to think of,
0:24:27 > 0:24:30and I need to be a granny,
0:24:30 > 0:24:31a proper granny,
0:24:31 > 0:24:36not this granny that walks in and out like Santa Claus.
0:24:36 > 0:24:38That's not happening no more.
0:24:38 > 0:24:40I'm going to be there for them.
0:24:42 > 0:24:46- Thanks.- All right.- OK, Chris?
0:24:46 > 0:24:49This is my class officer for the day.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54When I was 25...
0:24:56 > 0:25:00It's been 31 years
0:25:00 > 0:25:02coming in and out of prison,
0:25:02 > 0:25:05because for the simple reason being,
0:25:05 > 0:25:09when I take a drink, I turn into Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14Shoplifting...
0:25:17 > 0:25:19Prostitution...
0:25:23 > 0:25:25Loads of stuff, loads of stuff
0:25:25 > 0:25:28that was leading me to do.
0:25:30 > 0:25:32And hurting people...
0:25:33 > 0:25:34..cos I was hurting.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37Hurt people, hurt people.
0:25:43 > 0:25:45Me and this so-called friend
0:25:45 > 0:25:47went to a nightclub.
0:25:48 > 0:25:50It was happy hour,
0:25:50 > 0:25:56and we were knocking all sorts of drink into us and stuff.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58And the next thing, it just snowballed.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02I went into a rage,
0:26:02 > 0:26:04and I hit her in the head with an ashtray.
0:26:06 > 0:26:11Then when I hit her in the head with an ashtray, my God,
0:26:11 > 0:26:15it was like a water tap, the blood that was coming out of her head.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18It was awful.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20I never want to witness that again,
0:26:20 > 0:26:22of my own doing.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47Virtually every prisoner will go back into society,
0:26:47 > 0:26:50and I remember having a conversation
0:26:50 > 0:26:54where someone was saying, "Well, they're there to be punished."
0:26:55 > 0:26:58And, you know, if you punish them harder,
0:26:58 > 0:27:00they'll not commit crime.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03Young lads who'd been subject to punishment beatings
0:27:03 > 0:27:05and punishment shootings.
0:27:05 > 0:27:10If shooting them and beating them
0:27:10 > 0:27:13didn't stop them committing or stealing a car...
0:27:14 > 0:27:17..what more could I do?
0:27:17 > 0:27:20Because I couldn't shoot them or beat them.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26So, in terms of running a decent prison...
0:27:29 > 0:27:31..at the end of the day, those individuals,
0:27:31 > 0:27:35if I were to treat them harshly, could view themselves as victims.
0:27:35 > 0:27:37A prisoner is not a victim.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43Seriously?
0:27:43 > 0:27:45Is there no privacy in here at all?
0:27:46 > 0:27:49I've worked in all of the prisons and I was back up in
0:27:49 > 0:27:51Maghaberry Prison a short time ago, and I...
0:27:51 > 0:27:54I met a person in custody
0:27:54 > 0:27:57who I'd first met in Maghaberry in 1988.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00It took me a wee while to realise who they were,
0:28:00 > 0:28:02and I said to them, "How long are you back in?"
0:28:02 > 0:28:04and they were back in serving a fairly long sentence again,
0:28:04 > 0:28:07you know, and they hadn't adapted to society.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12They haven't adapted to society's rules and norms.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14They weren't a career criminal. I wouldn't class them
0:28:14 > 0:28:17as a career criminal, by any class of the imagination,
0:28:17 > 0:28:20but they were back in custody and they were back in serving
0:28:20 > 0:28:22a significant sentence.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24and they accepted that.
0:28:27 > 0:28:30You know, they accepted that they, you know, "I've been in custody,
0:28:30 > 0:28:31"I've been in custody for most of my life,
0:28:31 > 0:28:33"and I'm back in custody again."
0:28:43 > 0:28:46I have experience of young men here
0:28:46 > 0:28:49who I have saw coming back into custody maybe twice or three times,
0:28:49 > 0:28:51and their ambition is to graduate
0:28:51 > 0:28:54to the big house on the hill - to Maghaberry.
0:28:55 > 0:28:58It holds no fear for them, and they say that,
0:28:58 > 0:29:01"Well, if I'm coming back, I'll be over 21 and I'll go to Maghaberry."
0:29:03 > 0:29:05And, where, in many cases,
0:29:05 > 0:29:09they can be a fairly big fish in a small pond at Hydebank Wood,
0:29:09 > 0:29:14they went to Maghaberry into a residential unit of 150 or 170 men
0:29:14 > 0:29:15and found that, all of a sudden,
0:29:15 > 0:29:18they were very small fish in a very large pond.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36People in these houses are more settled.
0:29:36 > 0:29:41But the committal houses will be a bit more unsettled,
0:29:41 > 0:29:43a bit more harder for them to deal with.
0:29:47 > 0:29:49And some people just find it hard to cope with,
0:29:49 > 0:29:53and then throw in a load of family problems on top,
0:29:53 > 0:29:57and...then boys just blow.
0:30:00 > 0:30:04I suppose it could be overwhelming for some people, like, but...
0:30:04 > 0:30:08I don't know, it's one of them ones, you either get used to or you don't.
0:30:20 > 0:30:22I'm in doing 13 years'...
0:30:24 > 0:30:28..life sentence, for...
0:30:29 > 0:30:31A crime that...
0:30:31 > 0:30:35Ah, God, I don't even... Can I stop a wee second?
0:30:36 > 0:30:38Why are you in prison now?
0:30:38 > 0:30:42I'm in doing 13 years for...murder.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45For...
0:30:45 > 0:30:47Seven years into my sentence.
0:30:47 > 0:30:48Er...
0:30:55 > 0:30:58Went out for a night out,
0:30:58 > 0:31:00and a fight broke out, and...
0:31:02 > 0:31:04..as result of that...
0:31:05 > 0:31:07..I got a life sentence for it.
0:31:13 > 0:31:15A fight broke out in a bar.
0:31:16 > 0:31:18And...
0:31:18 > 0:31:20It got split up and all,
0:31:20 > 0:31:22and then we stayed in the bar.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24Then when we went home,
0:31:24 > 0:31:28they started phoning one of my mates.
0:31:29 > 0:31:32Encouraging him up for a fight into Walsh Park.
0:31:33 > 0:31:34We went up our road,
0:31:34 > 0:31:37had a fight with them, got split up,
0:31:37 > 0:31:41and then they came down and started attacking the house.
0:31:42 > 0:31:43And...
0:31:45 > 0:31:46..just...
0:31:48 > 0:31:50It escalated.
0:31:53 > 0:31:55So...
0:31:56 > 0:31:59You guys, then, the fight started again?
0:31:59 > 0:32:01The fight started again at the house.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04Then somebody lost their life.
0:32:06 > 0:32:09- How did that happen, Stephen? - He was stabbed.
0:32:58 > 0:33:01There was, like, about four of us in a room downstairs,
0:33:01 > 0:33:03and it was like a house party.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08We were all down in the bedroom and then he came just...
0:33:08 > 0:33:10He came running in
0:33:10 > 0:33:13and he just started shouting and all, and then...
0:33:15 > 0:33:18I was like, "Calm down." I just kept saying to him, "Calm down."
0:33:21 > 0:33:24And then cos I was obviously intoxicated and obviously,
0:33:24 > 0:33:26drugs then, I carried it further,
0:33:26 > 0:33:29because everything that happened to me through my life,
0:33:29 > 0:33:31it just all came into my head and just...
0:33:31 > 0:33:33just everything bottled up inside me,
0:33:33 > 0:33:35I just lashed out, and then that was it.
0:33:38 > 0:33:40And while I was walking up the hallway,
0:33:40 > 0:33:43I seen a screwdriver and grabbed it. Just not thinking, do you know?
0:33:43 > 0:33:45At the time, we were in a rage, and we were just...
0:33:48 > 0:33:51But, let me tell you, I'll always think now, so I will.
0:33:52 > 0:33:54Just there. Just near there...
0:33:54 > 0:33:56Just there to the neck.
0:33:57 > 0:33:59A stab wound to the neck, so it was.
0:33:59 > 0:34:01Which just...
0:34:02 > 0:34:04I just, right there, just near the...
0:34:04 > 0:34:07Right near the side, started stabbing the neck.
0:34:07 > 0:34:08You know?
0:34:10 > 0:34:12Wasn't great. Definitely not.
0:34:16 > 0:34:19That's what happened. I was intoxicated on drugs and...
0:34:20 > 0:34:23..one thing led to another, and then...
0:34:23 > 0:34:26I'm ashamed of it, if I was being honest.
0:34:26 > 0:34:27Definitely am.
0:34:51 > 0:34:54Tell me, during the bit, why you're in now.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56Tell me what happened.
0:34:57 > 0:34:59Riotous behaviour of a street robbery.
0:35:00 > 0:35:05And the street robbery was just... being an eejit.
0:35:05 > 0:35:09We were full of drugs and looking for an easy couple of quid,
0:35:09 > 0:35:13you know, and getting into hassle and end up in prison, you know.
0:35:15 > 0:35:18You feel sorry, because they were innocent people, you know,
0:35:18 > 0:35:20just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and...
0:35:21 > 0:35:26A couple of us were going short a few quid, and then it led to...
0:35:26 > 0:35:29It was early morning, I think it was about 6.30am.
0:35:29 > 0:35:31There was some people at the hole in the wall,
0:35:31 > 0:35:33in the door and tried to rob them
0:35:33 > 0:35:36and took a few quid and went and got drink straight away.
0:35:36 > 0:35:39It was actually a bank holiday, it was an Easter...
0:35:39 > 0:35:41Easter Monday, and the off sales was closed,
0:35:41 > 0:35:44so we actually went down to Tesco's and filled a full trolley up
0:35:44 > 0:35:47with drink and wheeled that there away too, you know?
0:35:47 > 0:35:49Just... Just mad.
0:35:51 > 0:35:53Who was the... Tell me about...
0:35:53 > 0:35:55At the ATM, just tell me what happened.
0:35:55 > 0:35:57Just a mad one, you know.
0:35:57 > 0:36:01People up getting their money and maybe two or three of us
0:36:01 > 0:36:05bounced out and bounced up, we grabbed the people and said,
0:36:05 > 0:36:06"Listen, get the money out."
0:36:07 > 0:36:10Putting a wee bit of pressure on them, you know,
0:36:10 > 0:36:12giving them a wee bit of scare tactics, you know.
0:36:12 > 0:36:14"If you don't get the money out,
0:36:14 > 0:36:16"we're going to bash you," kind of thing, you know?
0:36:17 > 0:36:19But this woman was assaulted?
0:36:19 > 0:36:21Well, no, it's...
0:36:21 > 0:36:25The bag... There was a bag or two, the bag was took off her,
0:36:25 > 0:36:31stuff like that there, and so there was a bit of wrestling with her bag.
0:36:31 > 0:36:34Apparently she broke one of her wee fingers or something, you know.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38And the fella was there too. He got...
0:36:38 > 0:36:40A couple of digs, you know?
0:36:40 > 0:36:43So it was just a bit loose.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45Looking back on it now, you feel bad for it, you know.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51- So there was violence?- Oh, there was violence in it, like, you know.
0:36:51 > 0:36:53It's not good.
0:37:23 > 0:37:24I've...
0:37:24 > 0:37:27I've a few kids out there that I don't get seeing because of drugs.
0:37:27 > 0:37:29Not just cos of drugs, because of violence too.
0:37:31 > 0:37:33The cocaine takes over.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35You do, you become a violent man.
0:37:36 > 0:37:40I have two kids I haven't seen in over ten years.
0:37:41 > 0:37:43Because of violence and because of drugs.
0:37:43 > 0:37:45They know their daddy as a nasty big monster.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53I still had the same mentality as my mother had.
0:37:53 > 0:37:56All you have to do is put food on the table and pay the bills,
0:37:56 > 0:37:58and put clothes on the kids' backs,
0:37:58 > 0:38:01not that she done much of that, like,
0:38:01 > 0:38:03but I thought that's what it was all about,
0:38:03 > 0:38:05so I kept on with crime, kept selling my drugs,
0:38:05 > 0:38:10kept ducking and diving from paramilitaries, and...
0:38:10 > 0:38:12I lost my family because of it.
0:38:19 > 0:38:20And I still to this day...
0:38:22 > 0:38:24I still don't get to see them.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28And... It kills me. It's...
0:38:28 > 0:38:31I've got five kids now, and a partner,
0:38:31 > 0:38:34and when I play with them, it's.
0:38:34 > 0:38:35It's amazing, do you know?
0:38:35 > 0:38:38And I show them my love, but I'm also filled with guilt.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42And if I could change anything,
0:38:42 > 0:38:44that would be the one thing I would change.
0:38:44 > 0:38:46I would have walked away then,
0:38:46 > 0:38:48instead of waiting until now to walk away.
0:38:50 > 0:38:54That wee girl had a horrible life living with me.
0:38:54 > 0:38:55A horrible life. It was...
0:38:56 > 0:38:59It was soul-destroying.
0:38:59 > 0:39:03The lifestyle, it was just drugs, drugs, crime, violence.
0:39:03 > 0:39:05And on several occasions, I lifted my hand to her.
0:39:07 > 0:39:09And...
0:39:09 > 0:39:12I'm ashamed of myself, but that's...
0:39:12 > 0:39:14That's one thing I've learned on the course now,
0:39:14 > 0:39:17is about getting rid of guilt, but I don't think i can get rid of it.
0:39:19 > 0:39:21Why do you think you were violent in the home?
0:39:23 > 0:39:25I ask myself that millions of times.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28I ask myself, and I think it was about self control.
0:39:28 > 0:39:31I think it was because I felt worthless and she was
0:39:31 > 0:39:35so bright and so happy and so cheerful, and...
0:39:37 > 0:39:40..I think maybe it was bringing her down onto my level,
0:39:40 > 0:39:42and having control over her.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45I don't honestly know, but I think that's... To be truthful,
0:39:45 > 0:39:49I think it was all about me having control of every situation.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51And I didn't have control over her emotions,
0:39:51 > 0:39:53and I think that's where the violence came in.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02I suffer from mental health problems.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06I have to take antidepressants and anti-psychotics,
0:40:06 > 0:40:09- because it just... - HE SCOFFS
0:40:09 > 0:40:13I used to self-harm, and it's hard not to. It's very hard not to.
0:40:13 > 0:40:17For the hurt and the pain that I've caused. You feel guilty.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21You feel like, when you're on these courses, "Why do I deserve it?"
0:40:21 > 0:40:23Especially when you hear prisoners,
0:40:23 > 0:40:26a lot of prisoners have took their lives in here.
0:40:26 > 0:40:29And you think to yourself, like, "That should have been me."
0:40:29 > 0:40:31Kids that are in for nothing.
0:40:31 > 0:40:34You hear kids outside hanging themselves.
0:40:34 > 0:40:36Why is the Lord taking them? Why is he not taking me, for all the
0:40:36 > 0:40:37bad things I've done?
0:40:40 > 0:40:42You know, for all the people we've made suffer.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45Whether it be a small crime or a big crime,
0:40:45 > 0:40:48people do suffer through our actions.
0:40:49 > 0:40:51And that's... It's not easy to live with.
0:41:02 > 0:41:04Ain't happy about this place.
0:41:05 > 0:41:06I've had enough.
0:41:08 > 0:41:10No more.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13Seen enough of this place to last me a lifetime.
0:41:36 > 0:41:41Well, my plans are, for today, just for today,
0:41:41 > 0:41:44is to go and get myself a mobile phone.
0:41:44 > 0:41:50A big D8, and fix my room up, where I'm going.
0:41:51 > 0:41:54And have a Chinese tonight.
0:41:59 > 0:42:03Could you let us out, please? That's the last time I'll be saying that.
0:42:05 > 0:42:08- Could you let us out? - Two seconds, one second, Pat.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15'I used to fly in and out of different countries,
0:42:15 > 0:42:17'and I didn't drink.
0:42:17 > 0:42:22'I took the odd San Miguel when I was in Spain.'
0:42:22 > 0:42:24Bye!
0:42:24 > 0:42:27And I'd have took that, and I'd have probably sat with that for hours.
0:42:28 > 0:42:32But something happened in my life. I was raped.
0:42:34 > 0:42:35And...
0:42:36 > 0:42:38It's neither here nor there at the minute.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42But I became...
0:42:43 > 0:42:44..like...
0:42:46 > 0:42:52..all hurt and closed up, and full of pain, full of emptiness.
0:42:53 > 0:42:56You could have drove a bus through the emptiness.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59And...
0:42:59 > 0:43:01It was bad. It was really bad.
0:43:03 > 0:43:07But I kept drinking the peace in and the peace out,
0:43:07 > 0:43:10to kill this pain and to kill this emptiness.
0:43:13 > 0:43:16# I'm coming home I've done my time... #
0:43:18 > 0:43:20SHE LAUGHS
0:43:20 > 0:43:23'My crime got worse after the rape.'
0:43:27 > 0:43:31But you see, I maintain I should have been in a mental institution.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34I shouldn't have been in prison.
0:43:34 > 0:43:38I should have been getting treated for what was underlying,
0:43:38 > 0:43:41cause of all this violence.
0:43:44 > 0:43:51And having said that, my heart stopped twice two weeks ago.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53I took an overdose.
0:43:55 > 0:43:57Because I couldn't stick any more of this place.
0:44:46 > 0:44:50People come into prisons with all sorts of problems
0:44:50 > 0:44:53and all sorts of complications in their lives,
0:44:53 > 0:44:57and therefore there is a reflection in terms of the challenges
0:44:57 > 0:45:00that there are in the community and the challenges that there are
0:45:00 > 0:45:02in prisons, whether it's through mental health issues or
0:45:02 > 0:45:04whether it's through addictions.
0:45:07 > 0:45:12Around 49% of those who arrive in prison would indicate to us
0:45:12 > 0:45:16that they have addiction problems, but prison should never be seen
0:45:16 > 0:45:19as a dumping ground, out of sight, out of mind.
0:45:21 > 0:45:26Our entire focus ought to be and should be on rehabilitating
0:45:26 > 0:45:31those within our care in order that we can make a difference not just to
0:45:31 > 0:45:34the lives of the individuals, but to the communities that they return to.
0:45:40 > 0:45:45We are very fortunate in this jurisdiction that there is not
0:45:45 > 0:45:47a significant injecting culture.
0:45:47 > 0:45:51There's not a hard drug culture, but certainly,
0:45:51 > 0:45:55there is an overreliance on prescribed medication,
0:45:55 > 0:45:57and that addiction,
0:45:57 > 0:46:01that addiction that starts for most people at quite an early age,
0:46:01 > 0:46:06and that hunger and that craving, and drug seeking behaviour,
0:46:06 > 0:46:08certainly, carries through here.
0:46:14 > 0:46:18However, in custody, when the supply can be erratic on their part,
0:46:18 > 0:46:20then I suppose, in some way,
0:46:20 > 0:46:26it helps to explain why there can be some...serious outcomes where,
0:46:26 > 0:46:29if people get it, then they take a lot of it.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40But sometimes, it's not the ones who are the most obvious,
0:46:40 > 0:46:42it's the ones who are unseen, the ones who, you know,
0:46:42 > 0:46:45we are unaware of, that are users,
0:46:45 > 0:46:49or have managed to get something that puts themselves in the
0:46:49 > 0:46:53most danger and really puts us to the point of understandable
0:46:53 > 0:46:57public criticism, whenever something goes wrong.
0:47:11 > 0:47:15I was brought up, always had money and family.
0:47:15 > 0:47:18They didn't like me taking drugs,
0:47:18 > 0:47:20and they were trying to deal with it at the same time,
0:47:20 > 0:47:23and then my mum and all that being unwell,
0:47:23 > 0:47:25I was putting more pressure on them instead.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28I was arguing with brothers and sisters over it,
0:47:28 > 0:47:30and they're trying to tell you, "What about the family and all?
0:47:30 > 0:47:32"You're not worrying about that there."
0:47:32 > 0:47:35Then it starts more arguments. You're saying to yourself,
0:47:35 > 0:47:37"You are worrying about the family."
0:47:37 > 0:47:39But really, you weren't at the time, it was just,
0:47:39 > 0:47:42"Where am I getting my next hit?" That was the main thing, you know.
0:47:44 > 0:47:48And then, when I started to come off them,
0:47:48 > 0:47:52ended up in Holywell, into a mental hospital
0:47:52 > 0:47:55coming off a load of tablets and all this.
0:47:55 > 0:48:00My head went, and all you can think of is suicide, and then
0:48:00 > 0:48:03when you come to prison, you don't realise how lucky you are outside.
0:48:03 > 0:48:04With the freedom. You think...
0:48:04 > 0:48:07Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to sit here and say prison's hard.
0:48:07 > 0:48:10It's easy enough, but it's the wee stupid things.
0:48:10 > 0:48:13Like a couple of wee nephews being born and stuff like that.
0:48:13 > 0:48:15Just breaks your heart in here, you know?
0:48:25 > 0:48:29To be honest, when I got out last time, the first day I got out,
0:48:29 > 0:48:31I was straight back to what I was doing.
0:48:34 > 0:48:36I think it's just, this time, I'm getting older,
0:48:36 > 0:48:38starting to wise up a wee bit, you know.
0:48:38 > 0:48:41And just certain things family members have said to me, you know,
0:48:41 > 0:48:44like, "You come back out, you do the same thing again, we're not going
0:48:44 > 0:48:47"to stand by you this time. You can do it on your own."
0:48:47 > 0:48:49You don't want to lose family over out getting yourself
0:48:49 > 0:48:52a couple of quid or out getting yourself a hit, you know?
0:48:53 > 0:48:57I'm only 23 and I've spent more or less six years in prison.
0:48:59 > 0:49:02Just shows you, for me, at 17, just been in prison.
0:49:06 > 0:49:09- So, just confirm your name and number for me?- H5009.
0:49:09 > 0:49:12- Right, you're getting licence today. - Yeah.- OK. You've probably heard
0:49:12 > 0:49:15- your licence conditions over the last couple of days.- Yeah.
0:49:15 > 0:49:18- I'll just go back over them now for you.- Yeah, no problem.
0:49:18 > 0:49:21So, under the provisions of Article 17 of the Criminal Justice Order,
0:49:21 > 0:49:26your supervision commences today and expires on 12/12/2018.
0:49:26 > 0:49:28You'll be under the supervision of the same probation officer
0:49:28 > 0:49:31and must comply with the conditions of this licence.
0:49:31 > 0:49:33The objectives of the supervision are to protect the public,
0:49:33 > 0:49:35prevent reoffending and achieve your successful rehabilitation.
0:49:35 > 0:49:39On release, you must report directly to the probation officer,
0:49:39 > 0:49:42and that's at four o'clock today...
0:49:42 > 0:49:43You must submit to drug and alcohol testing
0:49:43 > 0:49:45as agreed with your probation officer.
0:49:46 > 0:49:48In accordance with Article 24...
0:49:48 > 0:49:49Drug... What did you say?
0:49:49 > 0:49:52Drug and alcohol testing is agreed with your probation officer.
0:49:52 > 0:49:54They told me he'd lifted the drug test one.
0:49:54 > 0:49:56It's there at the moment...
0:49:56 > 0:50:02'My dream was... Fancy car, fancy lifestyle. That was the dream.
0:50:02 > 0:50:07'Aye, the fancy lifestyle. That was the dream, you know. Become big.
0:50:07 > 0:50:12'But I never became big. I always went to jail, so I never.
0:50:12 > 0:50:14'I always end up in here, in prison.'
0:50:17 > 0:50:19I was walking down the road with
0:50:19 > 0:50:22my son and he says, "Look, Daddy, when will you back down and see me?"
0:50:22 > 0:50:23And I said, "Look, Daddy has to go to work, son,"
0:50:23 > 0:50:25cos he's only seven and he doesn't really understand.
0:50:25 > 0:50:27I don't want him seeing me in prison and stuff.
0:50:27 > 0:50:29Still, I keep in phone contact with him.
0:50:29 > 0:50:31But...
0:50:31 > 0:50:33I said, "Daddy has to go away to work,"
0:50:33 > 0:50:36and he said, "No, Daddy, I don't want you to go away to work."
0:50:36 > 0:50:38"I don't like it." And to be quite honest,
0:50:38 > 0:50:40I left him off at his mother's house,
0:50:40 > 0:50:43I walked away, and I'm not lying, tears came to my eyes, like, it did.
0:50:43 > 0:50:45You know what I mean? Cos I'm leaving my son,
0:50:45 > 0:50:48and I didn't know what the impact of the case was going to be.
0:50:48 > 0:50:52You know? I didn't know... I was thinking...
0:50:54 > 0:50:56Still think four years is a long time, because,
0:50:56 > 0:50:59that's four years of my life and four years of my son's life.
0:51:00 > 0:51:02But also, I had to think about what I done.
0:51:02 > 0:51:04I shouldn't have done what I done, so I shouldn't have.
0:51:12 > 0:51:16You couldn't give me nothing in all this world to compare to my son.
0:51:16 > 0:51:19He's... I love him to bits, like, you know, but...
0:51:19 > 0:51:21Me coming in and out of here is not right. It's not fair on him.
0:51:21 > 0:51:25It's not fair on myself, but I've only myself to blame, you know?
0:51:25 > 0:51:26So I have, so...
0:51:26 > 0:51:29It's my time now for me to get out now and get a new start,
0:51:29 > 0:51:32get myself a nice wee apartment or a house, do my driving test,
0:51:32 > 0:51:34and it means I can go and take him on days out and stuff.
0:51:34 > 0:51:37It's time to change my life around, so it is. You know?
0:51:39 > 0:51:41It can be done.
0:51:41 > 0:51:44There's no point sitting in saying, "I'll think about doing it."
0:51:44 > 0:51:46You can do it.
0:51:46 > 0:51:49Just getting up and doing it and just staying out of prison,
0:51:49 > 0:51:51that's the way it's going to be.
0:51:51 > 0:51:54I just don't want to come back here no more. I'm actually tired of it.
0:51:54 > 0:51:55I'm sick of it.
0:51:56 > 0:52:00That's me, lads. Thanks very much, all right. No bother. All right?
0:52:01 > 0:52:05Sick of the jail. Sick of the lifestyle.
0:52:05 > 0:52:08You know, I'm sick of it. I am.
0:52:22 > 0:52:24I've grew up a lot in here, you know what I mean?
0:52:26 > 0:52:27I think, outside,
0:52:27 > 0:52:30I was very immature and just didn't think things through,
0:52:30 > 0:52:36and now... Now, yeah, I've definitely grew up a bit in here.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41All I want is my two boys round me now.
0:52:41 > 0:52:45Everything else is just...
0:52:46 > 0:52:47Doesn't matter.
0:52:52 > 0:52:56Well, one of them knows nothing, and one of them knows just a wee bit.
0:52:56 > 0:53:01He asked me about it on a visit and I told him he was too young
0:53:01 > 0:53:05and I would explain to him when he's old enough to deal with it.
0:53:05 > 0:53:07But...
0:53:07 > 0:53:11I don't know why somebody put it into his head to ask,
0:53:11 > 0:53:15because I was a bit taken aback by it.
0:53:15 > 0:53:18I thought he was a bit too young to be asking a question like that.
0:53:20 > 0:53:22You send cards out, but...
0:53:24 > 0:53:27It's all you can do in here, and that, you know, ends.
0:53:27 > 0:53:29It's not like you can be there for them.
0:53:40 > 0:53:43Family life's amazing. I have a wonderful partner.
0:53:43 > 0:53:47I never, ever thought I'd have kids again. I've five amazing kids.
0:53:52 > 0:53:55To be truthful, I'm glad I came to jail.
0:53:55 > 0:53:56I know you might think that's strange,
0:53:56 > 0:53:58"Why would he be glad to come to jail?"
0:53:58 > 0:54:01Because it was breaking point for me. I needed this.
0:54:01 > 0:54:05And... I was still taking drugs up until I came to jail.
0:54:07 > 0:54:10You know, I had everybody convinced I wasn't, but I was.
0:54:10 > 0:54:12It was a lot better lifestyle.
0:54:13 > 0:54:17I wasn't selling, I wasn't doing this, that and the other, but...
0:54:17 > 0:54:21It was a lot better lifestyle than I had with my other kids, and...
0:54:21 > 0:54:24But my kids were amazing. I'm doing this...
0:54:24 > 0:54:28I'm doing this for me, but for my kids. I am changing myself.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31I've tried before to change it for the kids. It doesn't work.
0:54:31 > 0:54:33I need to change it because I want to change.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38Do you worry that your children could be tempted or be lead
0:54:38 > 0:54:40by what they know of your life and follow it?
0:54:40 > 0:54:42Scares the life out of me,
0:54:42 > 0:54:45because when I was involved in drugs,
0:54:45 > 0:54:49I was the sort of person what would pull kids in and get them to
0:54:49 > 0:54:53feel great, and basically picked on the ones that was like me.
0:54:54 > 0:54:57You know, you can see boys like me in the crowd, you make them
0:54:57 > 0:55:01feel loved and then you get them selling drugs, and it does scare me.
0:55:01 > 0:55:04It scares the life out of me that my kids or anybody else's kids
0:55:04 > 0:55:07would ever go through this life. Because it's not a life.
0:55:09 > 0:55:13I'm going to change. Not I am going to change, I have changed.
0:55:15 > 0:55:17With the help of... Thought I'd never say this,
0:55:17 > 0:55:21but with the help of the prison service, my life has changed.
0:55:21 > 0:55:26I'm drug-free. Drug-free. Them two words...
0:55:29 > 0:55:34I always swore when I grew up, I was going to be a good daddy.
0:55:34 > 0:55:37I was the worst daddy than what I could ever imagine.
0:55:37 > 0:55:40Letting the two kids down.
0:55:42 > 0:55:44That's the hardest thing to deal with.
0:55:44 > 0:55:48And then the guilt of the things I've done through crime.
0:55:48 > 0:55:51I think my biggest crime is not being a father to my children.
0:55:53 > 0:55:56And that's... I don't think I'll ever get over that, never.
0:55:59 > 0:56:01And if the kids are watching this, I'm sorry.
0:56:03 > 0:56:04I really am.
0:56:07 > 0:56:08And I will try and change it.
0:56:15 > 0:56:19It's not easy, people think... People think we are just animals.
0:56:20 > 0:56:24People look at us and just go, "Let them rot in there." It's not easy.
0:56:24 > 0:56:26We can't change.
0:56:36 > 0:56:39SHE SHOUTS
0:56:39 > 0:56:40Yahoo!
0:56:43 > 0:56:44All right, Samantha, love?
0:56:46 > 0:56:47Are you well?
0:56:50 > 0:56:52All right, boys?
0:56:58 > 0:57:02Why do you feel...it can be different this time?
0:57:03 > 0:57:07Because I'm different.
0:57:07 > 0:57:12I'm a changed person, so I am.
0:57:12 > 0:57:13I have been rehabilitated.
0:57:16 > 0:57:18Cos I've been here so long.
0:57:20 > 0:57:24Don't get me wrong, I'm not an angel.
0:57:24 > 0:57:28But, the end of the day. I don't want to hurt no-one.
0:57:30 > 0:57:33OK, yes, I'm happy as a pig in shite.
0:57:36 > 0:57:38Yee-ha!
0:57:41 > 0:57:45'It's people, you see, that I have to deal with.'
0:57:50 > 0:57:54'And you get all kinds of people everywhere.'
0:57:56 > 0:58:02It's just that it's me that has to change,
0:58:02 > 0:58:05instead of the world, me trying to change the world.
0:58:07 > 0:58:09I have to change.