0:00:02 > 0:00:04PIANO PLAYS
0:00:10 > 0:00:15I owe everything, and I mean everything, to variety,
0:00:15 > 0:00:19standing on a stage on your own, trying to make people laugh.
0:00:19 > 0:00:20Look at it! There it is over there.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24- It's quick, innit?- No, listen!
0:00:24 > 0:00:26Everybody must have been on the stage.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29Here on Merseyside, we had about 25 theatres.
0:00:29 > 0:00:35So there must have been hundreds and hundreds of theatres doing variety all over Britain.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37'You could tell a variety artist
0:00:37 > 0:00:39'because of the make-up.'
0:00:39 > 0:00:41It was all...
0:00:41 > 0:00:43five and nine in those days.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45'And it never came off fully.'
0:00:47 > 0:00:51They'd have this kind of olive complexion.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57'We were the rogues and vagabonds, really.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00'I think they all looked at us as strange people'
0:01:00 > 0:01:02that come and go in a week.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05But that didn't bother any of us, because we were, anyway!
0:01:10 > 0:01:13- They're terrific, aren't they? - I quite agree. Stupendous.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21- Like that.- You couldn't be in variety and be in an elite company.
0:01:21 > 0:01:27It just wasn't done. But if you became a very big star, you could actually mix with kings and princes.
0:01:47 > 0:01:54Conceived as a more family-friendly and respectable version of music hall, in towns all over the country,
0:01:54 > 0:01:57people caught a variety show at least once a week.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02I fell in love with variety by...
0:02:02 > 0:02:05my dad used to take my mother, Sarah,
0:02:05 > 0:02:07and my brother and sister.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10Once a week, we'd all go somewhere like mostly over the road
0:02:10 > 0:02:13in Fraser Street, called the Shakespeare Theatre.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16The Shakespeare Theatre of Varieties.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18And there, that was it.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23I went to that marvellous, lovely, darkened room you go in,
0:02:23 > 0:02:30and there was a lovely smell of oranges and cigars and a lovely rumpty-tumpty theatre that went...
0:02:30 > 0:02:33HE IMITATES TRUMPETS ..and then the magic box
0:02:33 > 0:02:38on the stage when the curtain went up, all that rosy, cosy glow.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40And then on the stage would come these wonderful people.
0:02:40 > 0:02:45- Can you remember some of the actors? - Yeah. These marvellous people.
0:02:45 > 0:02:49People who would make you laugh. People who sang.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52People who juggled. People who were on trapezes.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55All sorts of marvellous, wonderful people.
0:02:58 > 0:03:0260 years ago, everybody's town had its variety theatre.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05In its heyday, comedians, musicians and jugglers
0:03:05 > 0:03:09and the like trod the boards to packed houses twice nightly.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12This is the world I grew up in.
0:03:12 > 0:03:16My dad Lesley and my uncles Lou and Bernie were variety agents.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19Lou and Bernie had even performed as dance acts around the halls.
0:03:19 > 0:03:25I joined the family business in 1966, in the last days of variety,
0:03:25 > 0:03:30becoming an agent to many of the acts I had revered growing up.
0:03:30 > 0:03:34This is the story of a lost world which may be gone,
0:03:34 > 0:03:36but isn't quite forgotten.
0:03:40 > 0:03:45The first two people I ever remember on there, and this is absolute fact,
0:03:45 > 0:03:52because they looked so good when they walked on, one was Max Miller, because he had the fantastic suit.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55The other was Bud Flanagan, because he had the fur coat
0:03:55 > 0:03:59and the hat on, and it was visual things that you could remember.
0:03:59 > 0:04:06As an agent, my job was not only to book the acts, but also to put together the variety bills.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09My mentor, Billy Marsh, and I would sit in the office in a haze
0:04:09 > 0:04:12of cigarette smoke, planning the running orders,
0:04:12 > 0:04:15and I quickly learnt that there was only one way to do it.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18Put the acts in the wrong order, and you could destroy a show.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22There are lots of black arts in showbusiness. One of them was putting a bill together.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25You'd obviously start with your headliner.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29- If you had a big crooner, a big singer... - Yeah, you're top of the bill.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31That's who was going to get the people in.
0:04:31 > 0:04:37But the audience would expect to see four, five, six, seven, eight different acts.
0:04:37 > 0:04:38How did you put a bill together?
0:04:38 > 0:04:41You'd always have a dance act to open the show.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44Occasionally maybe a fast juggling or acrobatic act.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47But technically speaking, a dance act.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54Then you'd have the second spot - comedian.
0:04:54 > 0:04:59That's the man who welcomes everybody in and gets them in a funny mood, we hope.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03Hello, everybody. First of all, I want to tell you how happy I am to be back here in England again.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06I haven't been anywhere else, but I'm happy I'm back.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10The first comic on many times was Des O'Connor and people of that level.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13They used to call them "light comedians".
0:05:13 > 0:05:16Light - that meant they didn't need a lot of laughs.
0:05:16 > 0:05:22But they could do a bit of singing, a bit of dancing and tell a few jokes. That was a light comedian.
0:05:22 > 0:05:28Heavy comedians were the Frankie Howerds of the world, who just did nothing but heavy comedy.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31It's the hardest job for a comedian.
0:05:31 > 0:05:36They hated it. Some did it all their lives, never progressed.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39Others would give you anything to get out of that.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43Of course, I didn't come out here to tell you jokes, I came here to play the violin.
0:05:43 > 0:05:49As you probably remember, I'm quite a violinist, not just a fiddler of the ordinary tripe - type.
0:05:49 > 0:05:55On a Monday night, in places like Attercliffe, Bilston and Scunthorpe,
0:05:55 > 0:06:00first house, all you had in were landladies
0:06:00 > 0:06:06and people with free passes who displayed the bills for the week.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11And the comics used to die on their arses.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15Unfortunately, I haven't any violin with me, but I'm sure that
0:06:15 > 0:06:21one of you charming boys in the orchestra or somebody around here will be happy to help me out.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24Yes...
0:06:27 > 0:06:29Death takes a holiday.
0:06:29 > 0:06:33Then you'd say "Right, now you do the novelty act there".
0:06:33 > 0:06:35Speciality act.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38- Nice speciality. - Acrobats, jugglers...- That's it.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Then the second half would start again...
0:06:47 > 0:06:53with dancing girls. Same as before, but different music.
0:06:53 > 0:06:54Then you'd have
0:06:54 > 0:06:57the second spot comic again.
0:06:57 > 0:07:02This is a very serious number entitled I Don't Have To Look At The World Through Rose-Coloured Glasses,
0:07:02 > 0:07:04Because My Eyes Are Naturally Bloodshot.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08Then you'd put your big comedy act.
0:07:08 > 0:07:13Then another speciality act, and finally the top of the bill.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18If I don't work fast tonight, please forgive me, I'm very tired.
0:07:18 > 0:07:20I've been shoplifting.
0:07:20 > 0:07:24Some of those shops are very heavy, I tell you.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27The full running time was about two hours.
0:07:27 > 0:07:32It was family entertainment, and if the comics were a little bit
0:07:32 > 0:07:34on the bawdy side, it went over the kids' heads anyway.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37But the parents used to think, "That was a bit near the knuckle".
0:07:37 > 0:07:41The running order, the timesheet was important. There was a tyranny.
0:07:41 > 0:07:44They all had their time, and if you had an act that was
0:07:44 > 0:07:48going over too much, you stopped using them.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52# You've got to hurry, hurry, hurry along
0:07:52 > 0:07:55# We've no time to sing another song
0:07:55 > 0:07:57# The manager is out there watching the clock
0:07:57 > 0:08:00# If we go over time, he'll get a shock... #
0:08:00 > 0:08:02Some of them used to time themselves.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05They used to light a cigarette as they went on, and when they finished
0:08:05 > 0:08:09the cigarette, they knew to go into the song.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12# Hustle, hustle, and don't make a fuss
0:08:12 > 0:08:15# What's the use of glaring at us?
0:08:15 > 0:08:18# Now's the time, now we must know
0:08:18 > 0:08:20# Oh, by gee, half a minute to go... #
0:08:20 > 0:08:24There were acts like Herschel Henlere.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28- Just Jizz.- Just Jizz, piano player. - Crazy man on the piano.
0:08:31 > 0:08:36They said "We're going to drop the curtain down", so he would stand up
0:08:36 > 0:08:40and push the piano down so that the curtain wouldn't drop on him.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43HE SPEAKS GIBBERISH
0:08:45 > 0:08:49And he'd go "Thank you, thank you very much. Want more Jizz?"
0:08:49 > 0:08:51And the audience...
0:08:57 > 0:08:58So he'd go and play.
0:08:58 > 0:09:02Ruined the timing. Stage managers used to say "Please, Herschel,
0:09:02 > 0:09:06"please, we've got to get the first house out and the second house in."
0:09:06 > 0:09:09"Please stick to your time".
0:09:09 > 0:09:11"Sorry, I'll do it". He never did.
0:09:11 > 0:09:17While variety brought glamour and excitement to audiences still recovering from the hardships of
0:09:17 > 0:09:23World War II, life on the road could be pretty grim for those who made their living treading the boards.
0:09:27 > 0:09:31Your history in showbusiness goes back at least one generation.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Can you tell me about the family?
0:09:35 > 0:09:39Yeah, Mum and Dad were in the business, and they were jugglers.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42- What sort of juggling? - Comedy, actually.
0:09:42 > 0:09:44Comedy juggling. They did quite well.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47Well, did well enough to send me to school, let me put it that way.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52I toured every week with them. Different school every week.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55Where was home for you? Did you have a home?
0:09:55 > 0:09:56Never. Never had.
0:09:56 > 0:09:57No house?
0:09:57 > 0:10:01- Never had. In digs all my life. - No fixed abode, literally?
0:10:01 > 0:10:03Absolutely. Absolutely.
0:10:03 > 0:10:05It was just digs.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09So you had to travel. Any toys you had, or clothes...?
0:10:09 > 0:10:13That's right, and pack your own suitcase. That was the trick.
0:10:13 > 0:10:14I'm really good at packing!
0:10:14 > 0:10:18I remember once, we were playing the Tivoli in Aberdeen.
0:10:18 > 0:10:23Would you believe, the next date was at the Palace, Plymouth! Aberdeen to Plymouth.
0:10:23 > 0:10:25You'd travel on Sunday
0:10:25 > 0:10:28and get to wherever you were going, find the digs,
0:10:28 > 0:10:31go in and meet the landlady, who'd show you your room.
0:10:31 > 0:10:33You'd have supper or whatever,
0:10:33 > 0:10:36and then the following morning went to the theatre for band call.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38Put your books down on the stage.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41Top of the bill could always go first if he wanted to.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44And you got to know who else was on the bill for that week,
0:10:44 > 0:10:48and then two houses Monday night and for the rest of the week.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51That's not quite right. Make it nice, bright and bouncy.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58One time, I toured a caravan.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02I was a gypsy on the road. I'd go from gig to gig, theatre to theatre.
0:11:02 > 0:11:09The ideal one would be if the theatre had a car park where they had water facilities.
0:11:09 > 0:11:11- So you travelled in your own digs? - Exactly.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15It took you 18 months to go all the way round England, Scotland,
0:11:15 > 0:11:17Ireland and Wales and everything.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20And then you'd start again. And you were doing the same act.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24Comedians were doing the same act. Singers were singing the same songs.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28It was amazing that people survived on one act for their whole career.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30That's grand.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44What was good about was that you were with a bunch of performers
0:11:44 > 0:11:48and we made friends, but you didn't see them again for maybe two or three years.
0:11:48 > 0:11:52You toured a lot, and it was quite wearying.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55You'd meet pros, and everyone says they all met at Crewe,
0:11:55 > 0:11:59because that was the big interchange of stations, and you did.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04You saw acts with huge great trunks of props and things,
0:12:04 > 0:12:08others that would travel light, and animal acts.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11You could pass trains and wave to your friends.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15- Empire Sunderland going that way? - Yeah.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19Ernie and I, before we got married, would say
0:12:19 > 0:12:22"I think we've got half an hour at Crewe!"
0:12:26 > 0:12:31We all stopped at Crewe, and it was snowing.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33So it was blowing in, as it were.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36And again, one of these wonderful improptu things...
0:12:36 > 0:12:40I won't stand up, but we got out and we were all huddled in the waiting
0:12:40 > 0:12:46room with a terrible little fire on burning nutty slack, awful.
0:12:46 > 0:12:52And another train came in, and Jimmy James came out of the thing.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55And Renee Houston, who knew him forever, she walked up to Jimmy
0:12:55 > 0:13:00and said "Excuse me, could I have this dance?"
0:13:00 > 0:13:02And he said "Well, I don't know, really.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05"I'll have to see", with a fag.
0:13:05 > 0:13:10And they're dancing on the station, these two big stars. Everybody else was just on the floor.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19Sometimes you could be lucky and land with a good landlady.
0:13:19 > 0:13:23But most of the time, the rooms were damp.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27The sheets had been slept in by the previous artists.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30You felt compelled to write something nice in the landlady's book,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33otherwise she would give you rotten breakfasts.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36And it could be pretty dismal.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39It is an enclosed world, yes. We live in our own little realm.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43In fact, we're rather inclined to look down and be sorry for people outside,
0:13:43 > 0:13:47which is a terrible thing to do. But we feel that they don't
0:13:47 > 0:13:50seem to understand, because they look at us as if
0:13:50 > 0:13:53we're something out of the zoo, and they're not far wrong sometimes.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56I'd see a place and think, "That looks quite nice",
0:13:56 > 0:14:00and then the taxi would take you to just one beyond it, you know!
0:14:00 > 0:14:03- Not quite so posh!- Not good at all!
0:14:03 > 0:14:04'I never know the date.
0:14:04 > 0:14:09'I never read a newspaper. The world sort of revolves around theatre.
0:14:09 > 0:14:13- 'We revolve with it.' - There was always a landlady.
0:14:13 > 0:14:15They were all like mother hens to the pros.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18But there were one or two that you wanted to avoid.
0:14:18 > 0:14:22I'm never quite sure how everybody - "Oh, don't stay there".
0:14:22 > 0:14:24There was a code or intelligence system...
0:14:24 > 0:14:28- Yes, in the digs book at the end of the week... - You'd sign a visitors' book.
0:14:28 > 0:14:33You'd sign the visitors' book and say, "Dear Mrs so-and-so, thanks for a most lovely stay".
0:14:33 > 0:14:37But if you put underneath it "Quoth the raven",
0:14:37 > 0:14:40we all knew then - "Don't go there".
0:14:40 > 0:14:43"Don't come back here. You're in for a terrible week".
0:14:43 > 0:14:46Never found out what it meant, but "quoth the raven" was the trick.
0:14:46 > 0:14:52'I charge £2.15 for the land girls, and £3.05
0:14:52 > 0:14:57'for girls on the bill and £3.10 for the gents, full board.'
0:14:57 > 0:14:59Were they rated?
0:14:59 > 0:15:03On what we could afford to pay, there was only one rating - bad.
0:15:03 > 0:15:04That's what you'd expect it to be.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08Really, they should have been paying us to stay there!
0:15:08 > 0:15:10But there were always chorus girls!
0:15:10 > 0:15:15- And we were young guys.- They would always have creaky stairs, so they
0:15:15 > 0:15:19could tell who goes up the stairs to the bedroom and who doesn't!
0:15:19 > 0:15:22They never fixed those creaky stairs.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26One man was caught with a girl on his back, piggy-backing her up
0:15:26 > 0:15:29the stairs, so that there was only one sound of footprints.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32- Did he get away with it?- No.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34They had eyes in the back on their head.
0:15:34 > 0:15:39Or their door to the kitchen or whatever would be slightly ajar.
0:15:39 > 0:15:40HE LAUGHS
0:15:40 > 0:15:43Some of them are very lonely people,
0:15:43 > 0:15:47and if they come into a house where they can get a little bit of...
0:15:47 > 0:15:52you know, comfort, they're very glad of it. I think it's very hard.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54I think it's a very hard life.
0:15:54 > 0:15:59Some landladies were "Variety artists only, no straight people".
0:15:59 > 0:16:02Some landladies wouldn't take dancers.
0:16:02 > 0:16:08"Don't take any dancers here, you know. They tried to bring jugglers home last week".
0:16:11 > 0:16:14And the twain never met.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18In Nottingham, where the Theatre Royal
0:16:18 > 0:16:22and the Empire shared a common wall, one was what
0:16:22 > 0:16:29they called once nightly, which was the legitimate actors and the plays, and the other was variety.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33Twice nightly and once nightly. And in the dining room,
0:16:33 > 0:16:38the actors who were staying in the digs would have tablecloths and cruets.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41And the twice nightly would have no tablecloths,
0:16:41 > 0:16:44and they'd have to go and ask for the sauce from the once nightlys.
0:16:44 > 0:16:49- There was a hierarchy.- Well, there was one of those in Manchester.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52INDISTINCT COMMENT
0:16:53 > 0:16:55It was called Astra House, the digs.
0:16:55 > 0:16:59And it was two little sort of...
0:17:01 > 0:17:07..houses side by side where you went in the front door and there was one hallway for the two front doors.
0:17:07 > 0:17:13And once again, all the actors, Vincent Price would come down that way and I'd come down the other way.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15The crazy gang come the other way!
0:17:15 > 0:17:17Some of them were strict.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21Some of them were quite forward!
0:17:23 > 0:17:26They were what you called crumpet digs!
0:17:30 > 0:17:33Where the landlady was pliable.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42The pianist Semprini - old ones, new ones, neglected ones.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46He was notorious for having women everywhere.
0:17:48 > 0:17:52And he was in digs with Scott Sanders
0:17:52 > 0:17:54one week.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57And Scott Sanders got home...
0:17:57 > 0:18:01quite late at night and went into the kitchen
0:18:01 > 0:18:05to get his supper out of the oven, and...
0:18:06 > 0:18:11..Semprini was having the landlady on the kitchen table.
0:18:12 > 0:18:17And she looked at him and said "Oh, Mr Sanders, what you must think of me!"
0:18:21 > 0:18:25I was playing the Woolwich Empire, and I was staying at 16 Wellington Street.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27I'll never forget it. Mrs Sullivan.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31Big woman. Always had a cigarette in her mouth with a bit of ash on it.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33And...
0:18:34 > 0:18:38..they weren't very clean, you know, but there was nowhere else to stay.
0:18:38 > 0:18:42And she was in the kitchen on this particular day
0:18:42 > 0:18:44and she was mixing up her rice pudding.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47And I walked in and she said, "Oh, hello, son",
0:18:47 > 0:18:51and as she moved her lips, the ash fell off into the rice pudding!
0:18:51 > 0:18:56And she looked down and looked at me and looked back and went "Oh, well.
0:18:56 > 0:19:01"We've all got to eat a bit of muck some time or other", and she mixed the ash into the rice pudding!
0:19:01 > 0:19:07There's a town that I will not mention, or a city, rather, because the woman involved is still around.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10She laid on supper for us every night,
0:19:10 > 0:19:12and the supper, as God is my judge,
0:19:12 > 0:19:16was baked beans every single night!
0:19:17 > 0:19:21Every single night. But she would wait up and do it for us.
0:19:21 > 0:19:26So we get there and it's the dress rehearsal and we're there till about 2 o'clock in the morning.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29We're walking back from the theatre and I said "Oh, Christ".
0:19:29 > 0:19:31It's Christmas Eve, this one.
0:19:31 > 0:19:37I said, "If it's bloody baked beans tonight, I'll shove them up her drawers, I promise you."
0:19:37 > 0:19:41So we get there and she's still awake, the old girl.
0:19:41 > 0:19:47She says hello, and we hear the shuffle of the old carpet slippers coming along the passageway.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50Two plates of baked beans.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53And I started to get the red mist.
0:19:53 > 0:20:00I get the fork and I'm poking about at these baked beans, and there's a chipolata sausage in the middle.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03And I went to the corridor and said "Oi!"
0:20:03 > 0:20:06She said "What?" I said, "I think you've made a mistake.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09"There's a chipolata sausage in my baked beans."
0:20:09 > 0:20:11She said "I know. Merry Christmas!"
0:20:14 > 0:20:17Jesus! That was the worst time.
0:20:21 > 0:20:25There was a hierarchy of theatre circuits, wasn't there?
0:20:25 > 0:20:29Moss Empires was the Crown Jewels. You'd arrived.
0:20:29 > 0:20:35If you got booked by Moss Empires at the Palladium or Hackney Empire,
0:20:35 > 0:20:38- then you had the number two, number three, number four.- Butterworths.
0:20:38 > 0:20:44What were the real dumps that when the agent rang you and said, "I've booked you a week at..."
0:20:44 > 0:20:48somewhere, your heart would sink?
0:20:48 > 0:20:52- Ashton under Lyne. - Ashton under Lyne.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56- What was horrible about it?- Well, you made sure all your stuff
0:20:56 > 0:21:00was hanging up in the dressing room, including your shoes.
0:21:00 > 0:21:04- You put those up, because of the rats.- The rats.
0:21:04 > 0:21:09A number one audience were always good because they'd paid good money and came to be entertained.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13A number three audience was...tough.
0:21:13 > 0:21:20I remember playing Attercliffe Palace, for example, a place long gone. Attercliffe Palace.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24What a strange name that was for the theatre it was. It was a dump.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27On a Monday first night, you would get miners coming up
0:21:27 > 0:21:31from the pit, and they still had coal dust on their face.
0:21:31 > 0:21:36And they'd sit there with their arms folded, and it was "Go on, lad.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38"Make me laugh, I dare you."
0:21:38 > 0:21:43And if you could get past that, if you could get a chuckle out of them,
0:21:43 > 0:21:46it was like winning a gold medal.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48Be honest, how do you like the show so far?
0:21:50 > 0:21:54I can always tell whether an audience is going to be good or bad.
0:21:54 > 0:21:55Good night.
0:21:55 > 0:21:59When I started, I played number threes, which was
0:21:59 > 0:22:04the Royal, Bilston and the Regent Rotherham and the Royalty, Chester.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06That was the circuit I got acquainted with. It was wonderful.
0:22:06 > 0:22:11The Rotherham Regent was near my home in Leeds, so I could get home every night.
0:22:11 > 0:22:14I always remember standing at the side of the stage there,
0:22:14 > 0:22:18and there was a big notice in the wings which you looked at before you went on.
0:22:18 > 0:22:25It said, "Jokes about the size of the audience are not appreciated at this theatre."
0:22:25 > 0:22:29I can remember working in a club in Manchester, and they had
0:22:29 > 0:22:34acts on, and in between each two acts, there was a wrestling bout.
0:22:34 > 0:22:40The ring would go up, and they'd have a tag bout.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44We'd have two fellows from Accrington...and then they'd come out again
0:22:44 > 0:22:48and they'd have a girl go on and sing a song. I mean, follow that.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52"Go on, dear, follow these fellows with the blood all over the floor."
0:22:52 > 0:22:57In between these wrestling bouts, the fellow said "You're on now, son."
0:22:57 > 0:23:03And I had to carry my amplifier in between the ropes and put it on and had a big long wire coming out.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07And I went and did this thing.
0:23:07 > 0:23:09And as soon as I started,
0:23:09 > 0:23:12a voice over the speaker just said,
0:23:12 > 0:23:15"They've arrived."
0:23:15 > 0:23:18And everybody stood up and went out.
0:23:18 > 0:23:24It was the pies in the bar that had just arrived from the people who supplied the food.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28- And I went in, and there was nobody listening to me.- Counter-attraction.
0:23:28 > 0:23:31They were all eating pies and having a beer.
0:23:31 > 0:23:37So I sang to nothing, and came off to nothing and went back to my room again.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40# Isn't it grand to see someone smile?
0:23:40 > 0:23:43# A smile is the thing that makes life worthwhile... #
0:23:43 > 0:23:50One of the flip sides of doing well in England was that they'd send you to Glasgow. It was a great leveller.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53That's right! That shut them up, didn't it?
0:23:53 > 0:23:57- You couldn't say no. If Moss Empires said, "You are going..."- You went.
0:23:57 > 0:24:03Max Miller, the great comedian, his agent said "I've got you a booking at Glasgow Empire."
0:24:03 > 0:24:06He said, "I'm a comedian, not a missionary."
0:24:06 > 0:24:09# When the things you have have somehow gone astray
0:24:09 > 0:24:13# You've got a certain feeling it's not your lucky day... #
0:24:13 > 0:24:17Oh! Everybody died there. It was terrible.
0:24:17 > 0:24:24Terrible. And if they'd had a few wine gums, you know, during the evening, the audience - terrible.
0:24:24 > 0:24:30I went with the only nude revue that was ever booked into Glasgow Empire.
0:24:30 > 0:24:35And they unscrewed the balcony rail and threw the balcony rail!
0:24:35 > 0:24:43The manager came on stage and said, "Who are the comedians?" And three of us stepped forward.
0:24:43 > 0:24:45He said, "No football gags, because we need the seats."
0:24:45 > 0:24:51And my first line to a Glasgow audience was,
0:24:51 > 0:24:55"I suppose you're all wondering why I've sent for you."
0:24:55 > 0:24:59And a man uncoiled himself from the third row with half a bottle of whisky,
0:24:59 > 0:25:03and he looked at me and said, "Cripes, what a horrible sight!"
0:25:05 > 0:25:07And the audience roared, and that was it.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09- I was in.- Did you come back at him?
0:25:09 > 0:25:12No, I wouldn't know what to say.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14They used to get paid extra to go up there.
0:25:14 > 0:25:18We'd go up the latest thing on Monday, and we would leave
0:25:18 > 0:25:23on Saturday night and sleep in a lay-by, anything to get away!
0:25:23 > 0:25:26You really know that you're not really wanted there
0:25:26 > 0:25:28and you're not really getting all the laughs
0:25:28 > 0:25:31you think you could be getting or should be getting.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34To still be able to keep your composure and
0:25:34 > 0:25:39deliver the lines cleanly, you know, that is very good training indeed.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43..Des O'Connor, who was a very good variety act.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46But this was in his youth, just coming up the bill?
0:25:46 > 0:25:51- That's right. So he goes up there to play Glasgow Empire.- For the first time.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54And it was awful. And he was so petrified.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57He'd done a load of his good gags at the front - nothing.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00- He was playing to silence? - Yeah. He pretended to faint.
0:26:00 > 0:26:02He had this song called Mother.
0:26:02 > 0:26:09"M is for the so and so, O is for something else and T is for this," and then he went, "Uhh...!"
0:26:09 > 0:26:11- And fainted? - They pulled him under the curtain.
0:26:11 > 0:26:17# It's a sin to tell a little lie... #
0:26:18 > 0:26:23So they get him off, and the stage manager knows exactly what's going on...
0:26:23 > 0:26:27- Yeah.- ..and ships him off to Glasgow Infirmary.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30And goes with him to Glasgow.
0:26:30 > 0:26:35And Des at this point daren't come round, because he's going to get rumbled.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38And the stage manager's talking to the nurse, saying "Do you really think they'll have to operate?"
0:26:38 > 0:26:42And Des says "I think I'm all right."
0:26:42 > 0:26:45And the stage manager goes "Yes, I know you're all right.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48- "You're going back on in the second house."- Did he send him back on?
0:26:48 > 0:26:49Yeah, he had to go back on.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53# When you say I love you
0:26:53 > 0:26:59# It's a sin to tell a lie. #
0:27:04 > 0:27:10If you were down the bill, did you get treated differently to if you were top of the bill?
0:27:10 > 0:27:15Yes, because the lower you were on the bill, the higher your dressing room was and the more stairs!
0:27:15 > 0:27:17There was a hierarchy.
0:27:17 > 0:27:22They were called principals and not principals.
0:27:22 > 0:27:25I don't know what their word for "not principals" was.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28There was a word for it. I can't remember what it was.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31"You," I think!
0:27:31 > 0:27:36But if you weren't in the top echelon of some kind of star status,
0:27:36 > 0:27:42you were very much down among what they used to call the wines and spirits.
0:27:42 > 0:27:48And that meant that your dressing rooms were way up high in the clouds.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51And if you were a star, you were very near the stage.
0:27:51 > 0:27:57So there was definitely a hierarchy there, and you were meant to observe that.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00Usually on a Monday morning, when you did the band call,
0:28:00 > 0:28:03a jolly top of the bill would come in and say hello to everybody.
0:28:03 > 0:28:05"Want to come back in the dressing room for a drink?"
0:28:05 > 0:28:09And you knew it was going to be a fun week and he'd chat to you all the week.
0:28:09 > 0:28:14But there were some that just didn't talk to anybody, just stayed in the dressing rooms,
0:28:14 > 0:28:18came out, did their act and went back in again, and that was it.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21So, you know, there was no jollification from the top.
0:28:21 > 0:28:23And everything stems from the top, really.
0:28:23 > 0:28:28I was at the Theatre in Cleethorpes. I think it was the Empire, Cleethorpes.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31Me being who I was, I knew I'd either be on the third floor,
0:28:31 > 0:28:35the fourth or the fifth floor, because I was always second bottom of the bill.
0:28:35 > 0:28:39So I looked, "Where is it...oh, in the basement?
0:28:39 > 0:28:40"That's new, in the basement."
0:28:40 > 0:28:43"Bruce Forsyth and Duncan's Collies."
0:28:44 > 0:28:49I'm only bloody dressing with a dog act!
0:28:49 > 0:28:51I couldn't believe this.
0:28:51 > 0:28:57I always remember Benny Lee saying he played the Met, Edgware Road as top of the bill.
0:28:57 > 0:29:01He was in Breakfast With Braden, as a singer, and he said,
0:29:01 > 0:29:05"I got there and had the number one dressing room.
0:29:05 > 0:29:07"I looked in there, and it was diabolical.
0:29:07 > 0:29:12"It smelled, it was filthy, the lino was all curling up. Horrible."
0:29:12 > 0:29:15They said, "Don't worry, we're redoing it tomorrow."
0:29:15 > 0:29:22So he got in the next night and they said, "We have redone it, but you're in the number 2 dressing room."
0:29:22 > 0:29:26He said, "Who's in the number one dressing room?" He said "the chimps."
0:29:26 > 0:29:31"The RSPCA's gone in and said this dressing room isn't fit for chimps.
0:29:31 > 0:29:34"But all right for singers," he said!
0:29:35 > 0:29:39It wasn't only the location of your dressing room you had to worry about.
0:29:39 > 0:29:45What mattered most to a variety artist was the position of their name on the poster.
0:29:45 > 0:29:50- Billing was very important.- Terribly big.- It was more than an ego thing.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53- It was status. - And status meant money.
0:29:53 > 0:29:57If you moved up the bill, you got more money and you could command more money,
0:29:57 > 0:30:00so that was why the billing was important.
0:30:00 > 0:30:06I never got it, but you'd often go to a theatre and there'd be a row on a Monday morning.
0:30:06 > 0:30:11Two of the top of the bill would be arguing about
0:30:11 > 0:30:14why they were first or second or third top.
0:30:14 > 0:30:19You know... I never got that. Bottom of the bill, I could argue with you!
0:30:19 > 0:30:24We always had to carry a ruler with us, because the times
0:30:24 > 0:30:27you would get there and go backstage,
0:30:27 > 0:30:30and one of the acts would say "Mr Peter, can we see you a minute?"
0:30:30 > 0:30:34"Yes, what's wrong?" "Have you seen my billing outside?
0:30:34 > 0:30:39"You see, that box is too small. I should have a bigger box."
0:30:39 > 0:30:42I'd say, "That's the same box you had at the other theatre."
0:30:42 > 0:30:46"No, it isn't." And I would have to go out and stand like this.
0:30:46 > 0:30:49And of course, occasionally it was wrong.
0:30:49 > 0:30:53But if I moved my thumb, it'd be, "No, that's OK."
0:30:53 > 0:31:01My bill matter was so low that the bills outside the theatre, dogs used to pee on my billing.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04It was ridiculous. And I was the first turn on.
0:31:04 > 0:31:06In those pre-television days,
0:31:06 > 0:31:10the only way to let both audiences and producers know what your act was
0:31:10 > 0:31:13would be to slap a description next to your name on the poster.
0:31:13 > 0:31:17These ranged from the functional to the downright baffling.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20Let's have a look at some of them over here.
0:31:20 > 0:31:24"Forsythe, Seamon and Farrell, with a ton of fun."
0:31:24 > 0:31:30Here's a good one. "The two Cossacks. Aristocrats of the skates."
0:31:30 > 0:31:34- What?- There was a marvellous act called Bennett and Williams.
0:31:34 > 0:31:36Two comics.
0:31:36 > 0:31:40Quite good guys. Sorry, I've got an itchy nose.
0:31:40 > 0:31:45Could be worse. They were a double act.
0:31:45 > 0:31:47They played one-string fiddles.
0:31:47 > 0:31:51And their bill matter was very clever -
0:31:51 > 0:31:56It was, "Even their relations think they're funny."
0:31:56 > 0:32:00That is a cardinal rule of show business. You know this.
0:32:00 > 0:32:07You never, never ask a family what they thought of your act, because they'll tell you.
0:32:07 > 0:32:12My bill matter was "He's a laugh."
0:32:12 > 0:32:15And sometimes the printers got it wrong -
0:32:15 > 0:32:16"Here's a laugh."
0:32:16 > 0:32:23And underneath my name under "Here's a laugh," somebody had written "Where??"
0:32:25 > 0:32:28Nobody asked me about bill matter. I didn't know.
0:32:28 > 0:32:33So there I was - "Ken Dodd, the lad of laughter."
0:32:33 > 0:32:37So I changed that to "the unpredictable,"
0:32:37 > 0:32:40partly because it would confuse people
0:32:40 > 0:32:45and also, people wouldn't know what I was going to do, including me.
0:32:45 > 0:32:47What was your bill matter in those days?
0:32:47 > 0:32:51My bill matter was "Bruce Forsyth, the incredible character."
0:32:53 > 0:32:54Best I could think of.
0:32:54 > 0:32:59- The best bill matter ever was Spike Milligan.- Go on.
0:32:59 > 0:33:04Spike Milligan's bill matter was "Spike Milligan," and underneath, "the performing man."
0:33:07 > 0:33:12See, only Spike could think of bill matter like that.
0:33:12 > 0:33:17Bill matter was important, because if you left your card at an agent's office...
0:33:17 > 0:33:22- "Max Miller, the cheeky chappie." - By the way, when I was at the Windmill, doing that, I used to go
0:33:22 > 0:33:29round the agents' offices practically three times a week, leaving my card.
0:33:29 > 0:33:32And nobody came in to see me. Not one.
0:33:32 > 0:33:39Sorry, I know you were in the agency business, but nobody ever bothered to come to see me.
0:33:39 > 0:33:44I love the language and imagination that went into creating bill matter.
0:33:44 > 0:33:49The "Ganjou Brothers and Juanita - portrait in porcelain." Isn't that wonderful?
0:33:49 > 0:33:53The great ones mostly are the speciality acts. There's one here.
0:33:53 > 0:33:57"Mito Trio - novelty equilibrists."
0:33:57 > 0:34:00I think that's a balancing act to you and me.
0:34:00 > 0:34:04Special acts are an important part of a variety bill.
0:34:04 > 0:34:10It's all very well having the icing on the cake, the current singer, comedian, whatever.
0:34:10 > 0:34:17But it has to be underpinned, like building a house, it has to have some really good acts
0:34:17 > 0:34:23- to get the people's interest. - What were the craziest acts that you saw, the most bizarre?
0:34:23 > 0:34:27Of course, there was the great Henry Vadden and Ladies.
0:34:27 > 0:34:33He used to have this sort of Austrian helmet on with a spike on the top,
0:34:33 > 0:34:39and he'd pick up this wooden cartwheel, throw it in the air...
0:34:39 > 0:34:43Up would go the cartwheel, right to where Henry would be standing...
0:34:43 > 0:34:45And he'd catch it on his head.
0:34:45 > 0:34:49It came down and hit him, he'd go "Cripes!"
0:34:49 > 0:34:52You could see his neck go down into his shoulders.
0:34:52 > 0:34:58- Twice nightly, he used to do that? 12 shows a week?- I think it made him round-shouldered eventually.
0:34:58 > 0:35:03I said, "Doesn't that hurt?" He said, "Of course it bleeding hurts!"
0:35:03 > 0:35:07'Karinga is the young Indian girl who's causing a sensation on the Continent
0:35:07 > 0:35:10'by her hypnotic powers over human beings and animals.'
0:35:10 > 0:35:15Do you remember a lady called Karinga?
0:35:15 > 0:35:17The snake lady?
0:35:17 > 0:35:20She had crocodiles and snakes and everything.
0:35:20 > 0:35:24She used to put her head in the mouths of crocodiles.
0:35:24 > 0:35:29And she had this really fuzzy hair and these alligators,
0:35:29 > 0:35:32and she'd lift them and put her head in them.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34Frightening.
0:35:34 > 0:35:39She used to keep the crocodiles in the bath at the digs!
0:35:42 > 0:35:45You'd go in and...they were quiet. She used to drug them.
0:35:45 > 0:35:52'In this already to us dangerously unpleasant position, a 200lb block will be broken across her body.
0:35:52 > 0:35:54'An uncanny demonstration of Karinga's power.'
0:35:57 > 0:36:02We did a matinee, and immediately afterwards, there was an announcement.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05The manager said, "Would everybody
0:36:05 > 0:36:09"assemble on stage, please?" And we all went on to the stage
0:36:09 > 0:36:13and the manager said, "I don't want to alarm you,
0:36:13 > 0:36:15"but I feel I should tell you this.
0:36:15 > 0:36:24"One of Miss Karinga's snakes is missing." We went on to do our act that evening,
0:36:24 > 0:36:27and then one of the lads said to me "Have a look round."
0:36:27 > 0:36:35And I turned round, and the snake was hanging from one of the batten rods across the back of the stage.
0:36:35 > 0:36:41And he was down like that with his head forward, as if he was counting the house, you know!
0:36:41 > 0:36:46And then, next day, onto the stage comes madam, with the cloak.
0:36:46 > 0:36:49She said "Sorry, gentlemen, stop, stop," she said.
0:36:49 > 0:36:53And we went...my song finished,
0:36:53 > 0:36:58and she stood there and said, "I do apologise, gentlemen."
0:36:58 > 0:37:04She put him round her neck a couple of times and had his head facing her, and she told him off.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07She said, "Naughty boy!"
0:37:07 > 0:37:12Can you imagine? You follow that with an impression of the Ink Spots!
0:37:15 > 0:37:20One of the funniest dog acts was Nino, the wonder dog.
0:37:20 > 0:37:22And the dog used to dance around on its back legs.
0:37:22 > 0:37:26I think it was a Czechoslovakian man who had him.
0:37:26 > 0:37:31But the band call in the morning was a bit of a hoot, because the dog wasn't there.
0:37:31 > 0:37:34He didn't bring the dog on for the band call.
0:37:34 > 0:37:38So there would be an empty stage, and this man would be going around
0:37:38 > 0:37:45muttering all kinds of Czechoslovakian curses and making this invisible dog pirouette.
0:37:45 > 0:37:48TALKS GIBBERISH
0:37:51 > 0:37:54And everybody always used to go...
0:37:54 > 0:37:59"Look at him. Well, compared to him, we're sane."
0:37:59 > 0:38:02Of the odd acts that you saw, are there any that you look back at
0:38:02 > 0:38:06and say "How could they think of doing that? How could they make a living doing that?"
0:38:06 > 0:38:08Michael, this is true.
0:38:08 > 0:38:10It sounds ridiculous.
0:38:10 > 0:38:15A fellow comes on in a cowboy outfit, with a bull.
0:38:15 > 0:38:17Right?
0:38:17 > 0:38:20- A live bull?- A live bull.
0:38:20 > 0:38:23And goes, "Right...
0:38:23 > 0:38:25"All right, there?
0:38:25 > 0:38:28"How old's yon bull?
0:38:31 > 0:38:35"Come on, come on. How old's the bull?"
0:38:37 > 0:38:38"Six." "No!"
0:38:38 > 0:38:42"12?" "No."
0:38:42 > 0:38:46Now the audience are getting the needle. 59? 163?
0:38:46 > 0:38:49"No, no. You're all wrong, he's 14."
0:38:49 > 0:38:51And that was the act?
0:38:51 > 0:38:53That was the act!
0:38:53 > 0:38:56God's truth.
0:38:56 > 0:39:01"Kardoma - he fills the stage with flags".
0:39:01 > 0:39:07This man used to have flags that he rolled up and hid all over the place and all over the stage.
0:39:07 > 0:39:14So he'd unswirl a flag of Italy and then take a bow, as though he'd just created it.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17Then he'd unswirl the flag of Belgium
0:39:17 > 0:39:20and they'd play the Belgian national anthem. And it went on.
0:39:20 > 0:39:25Of course during the war, that was wonderful, to see all the nations.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28He never had the swastika, thank goodness.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32In the end, he'd have his great finale,
0:39:32 > 0:39:37which was the backdrop of a huge Union Jack slowly unfolding
0:39:37 > 0:39:40to a drum roll, military drum roll.
0:39:40 > 0:39:42And he would put a hat on.
0:39:42 > 0:39:47He put a kind of sergeant major's hat on and salute as the national anthem played
0:39:47 > 0:39:51and the tabs slowly closed in and that was his act.
0:39:51 > 0:39:53To this day, I don't know what it was all about.
0:39:53 > 0:39:57One of the acts I used to hear on the radio on Workers' Playtime
0:39:57 > 0:40:01and the variety show was Leslie Welch, the Memory Man.
0:40:01 > 0:40:04He was like a one-man Google of sport.
0:40:04 > 0:40:09I'm going to try and entertain you by endeavouring to answer your sporting queries.
0:40:09 > 0:40:15I saw his name on a bill in an old-time musical bill at Chelsea Town Hall. I went with a chum.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18He went "Ask me anything you like about sport".
0:40:18 > 0:40:20Who won the Cup in 1936?
0:40:20 > 0:40:241936 - the Cup was won by the Arsenal.
0:40:24 > 0:40:29My chum and I worked out a question. He said "Yes, the gentleman at the back".
0:40:29 > 0:40:32I said "Aston Villa, 1832.
0:40:32 > 0:40:37"FA Cup semi-final. What was the team and what was the score?"
0:40:37 > 0:40:43And he would go "Aston Villa, 1832, the semi-final of the Cup.
0:40:43 > 0:40:48"Aston Villa won 3-1 and the team was Hopkins, Smith..."
0:40:48 > 0:40:53- Wilson Mayer-Hapgood... - And he'd reel off the names and get to the last one.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55..James and Baskin.
0:40:55 > 0:40:58"And Earl!" He'd say it with a flourish.
0:40:58 > 0:41:02- 1936.- And the audience went, "Wow!"
0:41:02 > 0:41:06And we'd look in the book, and it was nothing like it!
0:41:06 > 0:41:09It was completely different. But it was the way he delivered it.
0:41:09 > 0:41:11He knew that the questioner would be outnumbered.
0:41:11 > 0:41:14Nobody else in the audience would know the answer.
0:41:14 > 0:41:20All sorts of marvellous people, but the one that really took my eye were the ventriloquists.
0:41:20 > 0:41:23I saw wonderful men like Arthur Worsley.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26Just look at this face, eh?
0:41:26 > 0:41:30A mean, miserable, moody,
0:41:30 > 0:41:34melancholic, emotionless misfit.
0:41:34 > 0:41:38LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:41:39 > 0:41:43Arthur Worsley was the greatest ventriloquist I ever saw.
0:41:43 > 0:41:45Not only was he remarkably clever
0:41:45 > 0:41:49and you really did not see his lips moving, he was very funny.
0:41:49 > 0:41:53The idea of switching personalities, where you have a
0:41:53 > 0:41:58ventriloquist who doesn't speak and a dummy that doesn't stop,
0:41:58 > 0:42:00to me is just a funny idea.
0:42:00 > 0:42:02It makes me smile now.
0:42:02 > 0:42:05I think it's monstrous
0:42:05 > 0:42:08that I got him to manipulate me.
0:42:08 > 0:42:12If only I had a real
0:42:12 > 0:42:16master of ventriloquism, a marvellous maestro,
0:42:16 > 0:42:19then I could merely meander
0:42:19 > 0:42:24through a miscellaneous mixture of mirthful material.
0:42:24 > 0:42:26He would play gags.
0:42:26 > 0:42:30I would be standing behind him, because I like to watch everybody.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33- In the wings?- Yes. He would be waiting to go on and I would be
0:42:33 > 0:42:38behind him and suddenly he'd turn the dummy round
0:42:38 > 0:42:39and it would talk to me.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41And I didn't know he knew I was there, Arthur.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44And he would talk to me.
0:42:44 > 0:42:46Very scary, but funny.
0:42:46 > 0:42:49You don't have to make a name for yourself, do you?
0:42:49 > 0:42:53Hey? He's an inventor, you know. Aren't you?
0:42:53 > 0:42:57He's going to make a fortune one of these days. What's your latest, son?
0:42:57 > 0:42:59Tell them your latest.
0:42:59 > 0:43:03He's crossed a cow with an octopus.
0:43:03 > 0:43:05LAUGHTER
0:43:07 > 0:43:10It's true. He has a do-it-yourself cow.
0:43:10 > 0:43:13LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:43:14 > 0:43:17I worked with a young ventriloquist when I was starting.
0:43:17 > 0:43:19I think that was the Royal, Bilston.
0:43:19 > 0:43:21Sorry to place-drop.
0:43:21 > 0:43:23And I shared a dressing room with him.
0:43:23 > 0:43:27And I was fascinated by this guy who was a ventriloquist.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30He talked to his doll all the way down the stairs.
0:43:30 > 0:43:35He talked to the doll and the doll talked back coming back.
0:43:35 > 0:43:37The doll would say "You ruined that show.
0:43:37 > 0:43:38"You really screwed that one up".
0:43:38 > 0:43:44The hours and the years that they spent talking to themselves while rehearsing!
0:43:44 > 0:43:47It's not like a double act where you give feedback - "I think you did that wrong".
0:43:47 > 0:43:50They're talking to each other.
0:43:50 > 0:43:52I know what you're laughing at.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54You're laughing because I have this ear here...
0:43:54 > 0:44:00Dennis Spicer, who was brilliant, we did a show on Tyne Tees Television, Newcastle.
0:44:00 > 0:44:02Ted Ray, the great comedian, was on the show.
0:44:02 > 0:44:06We were hanging about waiting for Dennis, and he suddenly erupted
0:44:06 > 0:44:09into the room with a case and said "Sorry, traffic".
0:44:09 > 0:44:14And he put the case on the table and opened it, and there was a little doll in it.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17And there was a hook on the wall of this room, and he hung this doll
0:44:17 > 0:44:22on the hook and said, "I've got to have a pee and a cup of tea.
0:44:22 > 0:44:24"I'll be back in a minute. Sorry about this". And he left the room.
0:44:24 > 0:44:28And Ted Ray said, "We shouldn't do this, we're professionals.
0:44:28 > 0:44:30"Let's have a look in his case".
0:44:30 > 0:44:32He'd left it off the latch.
0:44:32 > 0:44:38So we looked, and there was a snake with funny rolling round eyes and all sorts of stuff in there.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41And then Ted said, "No, we shouldn't be doing this", and closed the case.
0:44:41 > 0:44:44And Dennis came back in the room with a cup of tea
0:44:44 > 0:44:47and the doll on the wall said, "He's had a look in your case, Dennis".
0:44:47 > 0:44:50It's quite all right, I don't mind at all.
0:44:50 > 0:44:55For every 10 or 20 speciality acts, there could only be one top of the bill.
0:44:55 > 0:44:59For me, one of the greatest of them all was Max Miller.
0:44:59 > 0:45:03My gran absolutely worshipped Max.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07- She thought Max Miller was the greatest.- She was a good judge. - She wasn't bad.
0:45:07 > 0:45:10She dragged me all over London to the different music halls.
0:45:10 > 0:45:16- To see Max.- My aunt used to say to her, "You're not taking him to see that dirty old sod, are you?"
0:45:16 > 0:45:19And she used to say, "He doesn't know what he's talking about.
0:45:19 > 0:45:21"He likes all the colours".
0:45:28 > 0:45:32My mother, who didn't go to variety theatres much,
0:45:32 > 0:45:36but when Max Miller came to Leeds, she took me to see Max Miller.
0:45:36 > 0:45:40And I'm looking at my mother thinking "You're getting off on this, aren't you?
0:45:40 > 0:45:42"He's the naughty boy on the stage, twinkling away".
0:45:42 > 0:45:45I started packing my bag. The wife said "Where are you going?"
0:45:45 > 0:45:48I said I'm going to Paris. She said "What will you use for money?" I said "francs".
0:45:48 > 0:45:51She said "Frank's not going. What are you talking about?"
0:45:51 > 0:45:53What was the magic of Max Miller?
0:45:53 > 0:45:57He was the first one to realise that you can contact the audience,
0:45:57 > 0:46:01put his foot on the footlights and leaned over and talked to them,
0:46:01 > 0:46:04and do the looking off stage all the time.
0:46:04 > 0:46:07He's on the side, sitting in the bath chair with a whip.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10Don't laugh. Haven't I got a nice figure?
0:46:10 > 0:46:11I have, haven't I?
0:46:11 > 0:46:14Not while I'm talking. It's rude to interfere.
0:46:14 > 0:46:18Ain't I nice? I'm all muscle, honest.
0:46:20 > 0:46:23He and I worked together at Golders Green,
0:46:23 > 0:46:26and he used to say to me "Hurry up if you can, Janet, because
0:46:26 > 0:46:29"I want to catch the last train for Brighton".
0:46:29 > 0:46:33So he didn't want you to overrun, because he'd miss his train.
0:46:33 > 0:46:37I had to get on and get off so that he could get on, get his done and get his train.
0:46:37 > 0:46:39That destroys the illusion, doesn't it?
0:46:39 > 0:46:41There you are, I've warmed them up for you.
0:46:41 > 0:46:44You don't have to do better than that, just keep them awake.
0:46:44 > 0:46:50One of the dates I was playing as a single comedy impressionist was the Grand Theatre, Brighton.
0:46:50 > 0:46:55I did my act, it went OK and I was told "Go up to the bar because
0:46:55 > 0:47:00"sometimes there are bookers there and you might get a few more dates".
0:47:00 > 0:47:09And I went up to the bar, and this old man slid up to me and said, "I saw your act, son. Very good.
0:47:09 > 0:47:11"But you talk too fast.
0:47:11 > 0:47:14"And your hand movements, you fiddle.
0:47:14 > 0:47:16"People get irritated when you do that.
0:47:16 > 0:47:20"Slow down. They've paid their money, they like you.
0:47:20 > 0:47:23"You've done well, but slow your act down.
0:47:23 > 0:47:25"Talk a little slower.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28"And stop all that hand stuff".
0:47:28 > 0:47:29So I said, "Thank you very much".
0:47:29 > 0:47:31He said, "Got any money?"
0:47:31 > 0:47:34I said "Yeah". He said, "Buy me a small scotch,
0:47:34 > 0:47:39"and then you'll be able to tell your grandchildren that you bought the great Max Miller a drink."
0:47:39 > 0:47:41He was well known for that.
0:47:41 > 0:47:45They say he's still got the first bob he ever earned.
0:47:45 > 0:47:47One of them said, "Just a minute, you.
0:47:47 > 0:47:48"Aren't you Max Miller?" I said yes.
0:47:48 > 0:47:51He said, "You've got a lot of property in Brighton, haven't you?"
0:47:51 > 0:47:54I said, "Yes, I have one or two hotels and half a dozen houses".
0:47:54 > 0:47:57He said "Do you want to sell one? I'll buy a round of drinks".
0:47:57 > 0:48:02I did a week with a pal of mine at the Finsbury Park Empire, with Max Miller top of the bill.
0:48:02 > 0:48:06I was in the wings every night, watching. And he had a great line at the end of his act.
0:48:06 > 0:48:10He used to say, "When I'm dead and gone, the game's finished."
0:48:10 > 0:48:12And he was absolutely right.
0:48:12 > 0:48:16It was one of his standard phrases towards the end, but it got a big round of applause.
0:48:16 > 0:48:19It was like saying goodbye to variety.
0:48:19 > 0:48:23He was the last great variety comic.
0:48:25 > 0:48:27Max Miller was right.
0:48:27 > 0:48:29The world was changing.
0:48:29 > 0:48:33And the day I think it changed was that day in the early '50s
0:48:33 > 0:48:38when an American recording sensation called Johnny Ray arrived here at the London Palladium.
0:48:40 > 0:48:43It was the first time in the stalls in the audience in the theatre
0:48:43 > 0:48:46that you heard girls screaming, standing up and blowing kisses.
0:48:46 > 0:48:54After the show on opening night, we persuaded Johnny to come out of the stage door and up here
0:48:54 > 0:48:56onto the balcony and to climb up onto the roof
0:48:56 > 0:48:58so that all the fans would get a good view of him.
0:48:58 > 0:49:03And the screaming was hysterical and unprecedented.
0:49:04 > 0:49:06He went out on variety bills.
0:49:06 > 0:49:08You'd get Tommy Steele on a variety bill
0:49:08 > 0:49:11and all the variety acts that we are speaking about underneath him.
0:49:11 > 0:49:13That was the way for a long time.
0:49:13 > 0:49:16Even the Beatles went out on a variety bill with Alma Cogan.
0:49:16 > 0:49:19# The old-time cave dweller lived in a cave
0:49:19 > 0:49:22# Here's what he did when he wanted to rave... #
0:49:22 > 0:49:27The first time I truly remember going to see a variety bill,
0:49:27 > 0:49:30of my own accord, rather than being taken to it,
0:49:30 > 0:49:34was to see Tommy Steele, which would have been in 1956.
0:49:34 > 0:49:36I went to see him at Birmingham Hippodrome.
0:49:36 > 0:49:41Rock'n'roll had just happened, and it was so new and so exciting.
0:49:41 > 0:49:43I couldn't believe the bill.
0:49:43 > 0:49:47I sat and watched Mike and Bernie Winters, the comperes.
0:49:47 > 0:49:49It was an idiot and his friend.
0:49:49 > 0:49:51That's what they looked like.
0:49:51 > 0:49:57And there was this double act, two girls singing, a Singin' In The Rain routine and a juggler.
0:49:57 > 0:50:00And I thought, "This is truly appalling".
0:50:00 > 0:50:07So all of us very politely, because most of us were kids at that age and mainly girls too,
0:50:07 > 0:50:09we sat and watched all of this,
0:50:09 > 0:50:13either in blank amazement or we were very polite, until it got to Tommy.
0:50:13 > 0:50:19And then he came up and he was magnificent with the Steelmen. And the world changed.
0:50:22 > 0:50:29The man I wrote Kenny Everett's shows with, the late Ray Cameron, father of Mike McIntyre,
0:50:29 > 0:50:32how the generations go on,
0:50:32 > 0:50:37Ray Cameron was a stand-up comic when he started, and he went on before the Stones,
0:50:37 > 0:50:39the Rolling Stones.
0:50:39 > 0:50:41You wouldn't wish that on anybody.
0:50:41 > 0:50:46Huge audience had come to see the Stones, and there's a young Canadian comic on the stage.
0:50:46 > 0:50:50Cries of "get off", or words to that effect.
0:50:50 > 0:50:54When rock'n'roll started in the mid-to late '50s,
0:50:54 > 0:50:57everybody thought, "This is the answer to the failure of variety".
0:50:57 > 0:51:01But again, there weren't enough acts to fill 52 weeks a year.
0:51:01 > 0:51:05So what you break is the habit of the people who go every week,
0:51:05 > 0:51:09because your mum would not want to go and see Bill Haley and the Comets.
0:51:09 > 0:51:13And once you break a habit, it's hard to get the habit back.
0:51:13 > 0:51:16My theory is that although in the short term, rock and roll
0:51:16 > 0:51:22filled those theatres because it was the only place kids could go and see those stars,
0:51:22 > 0:51:27eventually they moved on, and when you wanted to go back to Ronnie Ronalde topping the bill
0:51:27 > 0:51:32the next week, the people who were supporting theatre all that time had moved on to something else.
0:51:32 > 0:51:37In a desperate bid to keep afloat, the theatres turned to the one thing that always sells.
0:51:37 > 0:51:41But if your mum didn't want to go and see Bill Haley and the Comets,
0:51:41 > 0:51:43she certainly didn't want to go and see this.
0:51:52 > 0:51:55That was the end of variety, those nude shows.
0:51:55 > 0:51:58- You knew it was dying then. - Gone by then, yeah.
0:52:01 > 0:52:06I always remember the one at Aston. He advertised in the local paper for strippers.
0:52:07 > 0:52:11Striptease and everything killed off the family audience.
0:52:11 > 0:52:14People weren't going to go with their kids to see this.
0:52:14 > 0:52:16And the old variety theatres had a very rough time.
0:52:16 > 0:52:23There were strict censorship rules about a naked woman on the stage.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26Very strict. They just couldn't be naked.
0:52:26 > 0:52:30They had to have pasties on their nipples.
0:52:30 > 0:52:35Now, my job, while the comedian who normally was the MC
0:52:35 > 0:52:39was putting people in the mood of the pose,
0:52:39 > 0:52:42I would be backstage with this girl.
0:52:42 > 0:52:48She would be standing there, and it would be, say, "Autumn".
0:52:48 > 0:52:54And I knew this was my cue to put
0:52:54 > 0:52:58cotton wool balls, like snowballs, little glue,
0:52:58 > 0:53:02on one breast and the other breast, and then one down below.
0:53:02 > 0:53:05The comedian would have said something like,
0:53:05 > 0:53:11"And now we go to the winter wonderland of Switzerland to St Moritz".
0:53:11 > 0:53:18Then his next line would be, "Winter has gone, and spring is here".
0:53:18 > 0:53:21So I'd pick up a little animal that looks like a lamb,
0:53:21 > 0:53:26put it over this side, covering her nipple, and she'd be holding it like that.
0:53:26 > 0:53:31Flowers in this hand, and I'd put a big bouquet here.
0:53:31 > 0:53:33All stuck on.
0:53:33 > 0:53:37This was a wonderful job for a 15-year-old boy.
0:53:37 > 0:53:42However, if the girls weren't very kind to us and nice, I used to put extra glue on.
0:53:42 > 0:53:46So when the pose was over, I used to go pop, pop, pop - "Ow!"
0:53:52 > 0:53:58In 1957, as people began to turn from the theatre to the television sets
0:53:58 > 0:54:02in their living room, the great playwright John Osborne
0:54:02 > 0:54:05delivered this elegy on the death of variety.
0:54:05 > 0:54:08"Some of the heart of England has gone.
0:54:08 > 0:54:14"Something that once belonged to everyone, for this was truly a folk art".
0:54:14 > 0:54:17I don't think it helped itself
0:54:17 > 0:54:21by carrying on doing things on the cheap.
0:54:21 > 0:54:25You can't do things on the cheap, certainly when you're entertaining people.
0:54:25 > 0:54:27Let's get some fresh sea air into here.
0:54:27 > 0:54:30The theatres got shabby.
0:54:30 > 0:54:33Badly needed decoration.
0:54:33 > 0:54:39The orchestras were cut down, and eventually, it became rather sad.
0:54:41 > 0:54:43And that was the decline.
0:54:48 > 0:54:53We were on the bill with Spike Milligan, and the bulldozers
0:54:53 > 0:54:57moved in the week before we were there into the car park.
0:54:57 > 0:55:00It was the last, last variety bill.
0:55:02 > 0:55:07It was really symptomatic of what was happening all around the country, but here they were,
0:55:07 > 0:55:11the bulldozers, ready to knock this theatre down when we had finished playing that week.
0:55:15 > 0:55:19If they're booking me, they book Arthur Leslie and they get Arthur Leslie.
0:55:19 > 0:55:29It was an industry that employed, at its peak, somewhere in the region of 5,000 people.
0:55:29 > 0:55:33Think of the word variety. It means a variety of skills.
0:55:33 > 0:55:36You see men and women
0:55:36 > 0:55:41who have spent a lifetime crafting, polishing one act.
0:55:41 > 0:55:44They have spent their lifetime getting it right.
0:55:46 > 0:55:50You may have seen this done before, but never better.
0:55:51 > 0:55:58All variety shows were little one-man businesses, a bit like greengrocers and hardware salesmen.
0:55:58 > 0:56:01They all had their own little way of doing it.
0:56:01 > 0:56:06If I can go on and get a laugh, then I will be happy.
0:56:08 > 0:56:10Oh, God.
0:56:10 > 0:56:1275 years of hard practice.
0:56:18 > 0:56:24To see the old pros who had worked for years and years doing a single sketch, maybe...
0:56:26 > 0:56:31..to see that their careers were coming to an end, it was very sad to watch.
0:56:31 > 0:56:37Some of these second spot comics, people like Archie Glen,
0:56:37 > 0:56:42they went on for 40, 45 years
0:56:42 > 0:56:44doing the same act.
0:56:44 > 0:56:49When it all finished, what did they do? I remember when they had all closed.
0:56:49 > 0:56:55I was at the Theatre Royal in Brighton with a play.
0:56:55 > 0:56:59I went into the car park to get the car and come back to London,
0:56:59 > 0:57:02and who was the car park attendant?
0:57:02 > 0:57:05Archie Glenn.
0:57:05 > 0:57:11Artists that were booked all-year round were starting to advertise themselves.
0:57:11 > 0:57:12Suddenly vacant.
0:57:12 > 0:57:16Some of them never had a home.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19They just lived in digs all their lives.
0:57:19 > 0:57:23And when all the theatres closed,
0:57:23 > 0:57:25they hadn't got anywhere to live
0:57:25 > 0:57:32because the digs had gone, everything had gone and their work had gone.
0:57:33 > 0:57:38The great variety, which is the key word here, that has gone.
0:57:38 > 0:57:40That is what you miss.
0:57:40 > 0:57:45All these years in our profession, none of us have ever reached the top.
0:57:45 > 0:57:50We just keep struggling along, always hoping. It isn't everyone's luck.
0:57:55 > 0:57:56No, no, no, no.
0:57:59 > 0:58:03I used to look up at these names in big print and say,
0:58:03 > 0:58:06"Some day, my name will be there".
0:58:20 > 0:58:24Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:58:27 > 0:58:31E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk