0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting
0:00:06 > 0:00:10Three women who claim they have been held slaves in a home in London
0:00:10 > 0:00:13for at least 30 years have been rescued by the police.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16They are described as a 69-year-old Malaysian woman,
0:00:16 > 0:00:18a 57-year-old Irish...
0:00:18 > 0:00:21A 69-year-old from Malaysia,
0:00:21 > 0:00:22a 57-year-old from Ireland,
0:00:22 > 0:00:26and a 30-year old British woman were all rescued.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29All three women were highly traumatised
0:00:29 > 0:00:33and were taken to a place of safety, where they remain.
0:00:33 > 0:00:38We have seen some cases where people have been held for up to ten years,
0:00:38 > 0:00:40but we've never seen anything of this magnitude before.
0:00:40 > 0:00:41Thank you.
0:00:47 > 0:00:51It's, you know, it's kind of impossible to...
0:00:51 > 0:00:54believe that something like that could happen.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59Well, I didn't know nothing about until I read in the papers that
0:00:59 > 0:01:03he was, like, keeping them as slaves or brainwashing them or what.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05You know, but I didn't know nothing about it.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12When I first heard this strange and intriguing story,
0:01:12 > 0:01:17I wanted to discover how this could have happened right under our noses
0:01:17 > 0:01:18in the heart of London.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24It's only now,
0:01:24 > 0:01:28three years after the women emerged from captivity, that I've been able
0:01:28 > 0:01:31to piece together a full account of this extraordinary story.
0:01:36 > 0:01:37He's God.
0:01:39 > 0:01:40He rules the world.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42He's immortal.
0:01:42 > 0:01:48And...he's our leader and teacher and we just have to obey him,
0:01:48 > 0:01:50otherwise we will die.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09The first contact with the women was made by a charity
0:02:09 > 0:02:12who rescued them from a flat in Brixton in south London.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16We got there about 11:05
0:02:16 > 0:02:18because there was a window of opportunity
0:02:18 > 0:02:21when people weren't in the house.
0:02:21 > 0:02:26Sure enough, these women all came out at exactly 11:15 sharp.
0:02:28 > 0:02:29Coming up in the car,
0:02:29 > 0:02:31somebody wanted to know why
0:02:31 > 0:02:33the cars coming towards us had white lights...
0:02:33 > 0:02:35- That was Aisha.- ..and the cars in front of us had red lights
0:02:35 > 0:02:37Do you want to know why that was?
0:02:42 > 0:02:43In the immediate aftermath,
0:02:43 > 0:02:47none of the agencies involved knew what they were dealing with,
0:02:47 > 0:02:50so the women were spirited away to Leeds
0:02:50 > 0:02:54where they could be protected from the press and the public.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02Yvonne Hall and Gerard Stocks run an organisation helping people
0:03:02 > 0:03:04who've been trafficked and enslaved.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10They took the three women under their own roof,
0:03:10 > 0:03:14and were the first to realise the full extent of what had taken place.
0:03:19 > 0:03:24The 69-year-old Malaysian woman, seen here on the left, is Aisha.
0:03:24 > 0:03:29The 57-year-old Irish woman on the right is Josie,
0:03:29 > 0:03:32and the 30-year-old is Katy.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38When she first came, yes, she was 30 years old in the way we measure age,
0:03:38 > 0:03:40but she wasn't. She was much probably nearer to ten
0:03:40 > 0:03:43or 11 or something like that. Again, I'm not a psychologist,
0:03:43 > 0:03:46but I think that would be accurate from what other people...
0:03:46 > 0:03:47I would even go even further.
0:03:47 > 0:03:52I would say she was ten or 11 in her ability to communicate verbally,
0:03:52 > 0:03:57but in her ability to actually do practical daily tasks,
0:03:57 > 0:04:00I would probably drop it back down to maybe six/seven.
0:04:02 > 0:04:07It became clear that Katy had been born in captivity
0:04:07 > 0:04:09and had never known any other life.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17She had never been to school and had only rarely left the house.
0:04:21 > 0:04:23After much delicate discussion,
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Katy finally agreed to an interview.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Did you ever go to the dentist or the doctor?
0:04:32 > 0:04:34No, not a lot.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38And why was...
0:04:38 > 0:04:39Why was that?
0:04:41 > 0:04:43I guess it...
0:04:43 > 0:04:46I guess he didn't want anybody to know of my existence,
0:04:46 > 0:04:48that was part of it,
0:04:48 > 0:04:50but he also used to say that, used to say,
0:04:50 > 0:04:52"NHS means 'Never Helps Self.'"
0:04:52 > 0:04:56So we should...if we get ill,
0:04:56 > 0:05:01we have to focus on him, then we will get better as if by magic.
0:05:03 > 0:05:05BBC NEWS OPENING THEME
0:05:08 > 0:05:11Good evening and welcome to the BBC's News At Six.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14The couple suspected of holding three women as slaves
0:05:14 > 0:05:18for more than 30 years have been named as Aravindan Balakrishnan
0:05:18 > 0:05:21and his wife, Chanda. The BBC understands that both
0:05:21 > 0:05:24were leading figures in a far left Communist faction
0:05:24 > 0:05:27based on Brixton in South London in the 1970s.
0:05:29 > 0:05:33Up in Leeds, the women began to talk about life in what they termed
0:05:33 > 0:05:34The Collective.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40They referred to Balakrishnan as Comrade Bala, or AB,
0:05:40 > 0:05:45and revealed that he had had control over every aspect of their lives.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50He had threatened and terrified them,
0:05:50 > 0:05:53claiming to have an invisible, all-powerful machine
0:05:53 > 0:05:57at his disposal, which he called Jackie.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03Tell me about Jackie. What does Jackie stand for?
0:06:04 > 0:06:10Jehovah, Allah, Christ, Krishna and Immortal Easwaran.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14And what was Jackie?
0:06:14 > 0:06:17His...Bala's mind control machine...
0:06:19 > 0:06:23..who controls everything in nature and everything in the world.
0:06:24 > 0:06:28And what would he say that Jackie would do to you
0:06:28 > 0:06:31if you did the wrong thing or stood up to him or...?
0:06:31 > 0:06:33Kill you.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36Or cause you terrible harm.
0:06:47 > 0:06:52Jackie came up a lot, with all three people, and even now,
0:06:52 > 0:06:57I would suggest that two of the three absolutely are definitely very
0:06:57 > 0:07:00scared of Jackie, that Jackie's going to take revenge at some point.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12Are they leaflets about Comrade Bala, yeah?
0:07:14 > 0:07:17Despite having voluntarily left the collective,
0:07:17 > 0:07:22Josie Herivel has spent the last three years on an one-woman mission
0:07:22 > 0:07:24to clear Balakrishnan's name.
0:07:24 > 0:07:25Thank you very much.
0:07:28 > 0:07:30Are you and others also fighting?
0:07:30 > 0:07:33Are you part of a campaign with other people as well?
0:07:33 > 0:07:38Absolutely. We are in solidarity with all the people
0:07:38 > 0:07:41who are suffering under the British state, you know,
0:07:41 > 0:07:44US-led British state.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47It is a slave of America, Britain is a slave of America.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52- And how is Comrade Bala? - No, I'm not being interviewed, OK?
0:07:52 > 0:07:54- I don't want to be interviewed.- OK.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57She declined to take part in this film,
0:07:57 > 0:08:01declaring the BBC a tool of the British fascist state.
0:08:03 > 0:08:08In the one interview she gave to Channel 4 News in 2015,
0:08:08 > 0:08:10she gave HER view of Jackie.
0:08:10 > 0:08:15What I understand about it is it's a...
0:08:15 > 0:08:17machine, you know.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21Electronic machine which helps people to do good, you know.
0:08:21 > 0:08:26But he has talked about people dying as a result of that machine.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28- Yes.- Do you believe that?
0:08:28 > 0:08:30I do, yes.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32That he had the power to make somebody die?
0:08:34 > 0:08:35Yes.
0:08:40 > 0:08:44With Jackie's help, Balakrishnan controlled the world
0:08:44 > 0:08:46from inside the flat.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49He took credit for all global events
0:08:49 > 0:08:52including wars and natural disasters.
0:08:54 > 0:08:58Everything that happened outside, like earthquakes and hurricanes,
0:08:58 > 0:09:02he claimed was a consequence of a lack of discipline
0:09:02 > 0:09:05or misbehaviour by his followers inside.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10The Space Shuttle Challenger,
0:09:10 > 0:09:14it was meant to have blown up when he said that
0:09:14 > 0:09:17people were challenging him in the house.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23And the shape was like a Y,
0:09:23 > 0:09:26when the shuttle blew up, it was like a Y,
0:09:26 > 0:09:29so he used to say it is because people are vying with him,
0:09:29 > 0:09:33so there's a Y there like that in the sky.
0:09:41 > 0:09:45The Collective lived at numerous addresses in south London
0:09:45 > 0:09:47over the 40 years of its existence.
0:09:48 > 0:09:53At one address, a pizza delivery boy rang their bell by mistake.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59So Bala said that this was the fascist state trying to provoke him.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01By bringing the pizza?
0:10:01 > 0:10:05Yes, by bringing the pizza and disturbing him
0:10:05 > 0:10:07and disturbing what he was doing.
0:10:07 > 0:10:14So that then the same day there was an earthquake in Kobe in Japan.
0:10:17 > 0:10:22Which meant... Kobe means "God's door", that's what he said.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25So he said, when there was a knock on God's door...
0:10:25 > 0:10:28SHE GIGGLES
0:10:34 > 0:10:38..sounds crazy but, yes.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41Go on, finish that thought. So when there was a knock on God's door...
0:10:41 > 0:10:45Then there was this huge earthquake in Kobe to punish the fascist state
0:10:45 > 0:10:51for the fact that the pizza delivery man came to God's door.
0:10:51 > 0:10:53- Bala's door?- Bala's door.
0:10:59 > 0:11:04When I was asking her about some of the strange theories...
0:11:04 > 0:11:08- She would have laughed, she would have laughed.- ..she laughed.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10Yeah, she would have done. It's not cos she thinks it's funny,
0:11:10 > 0:11:13it's because she's really embarrassed or really pressured.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15And it's a really important thing to know,
0:11:15 > 0:11:18- if you're asking her questions. - Yeah.- It is, isn't it, really?
0:11:18 > 0:11:20There's a lot of people will see the laugh and think,
0:11:20 > 0:11:23"Oh," you know, "she thinks it's funny,"
0:11:23 > 0:11:26whereas really she is in distress at that point.
0:11:27 > 0:11:31Using Jackie as his tool, what was his plan?
0:11:31 > 0:11:33To become the ruler of the world?
0:11:33 > 0:11:36Yes, or he used to say to become the overt ruler of the world.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39He used to say he was already the ruler of the world
0:11:39 > 0:11:42but then it has to become overt, that's what he used to say.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45So he was the COVERT ruler of the world at this point?
0:11:45 > 0:11:47- Yes.- Inside the flat?- Yeah.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51- And he was going to become the overt ruler?- Yes.
0:11:51 > 0:11:55And how was that going to happen? What was going to happen
0:11:55 > 0:11:58that suddenly would mean that the whole world would obey him?
0:12:00 > 0:12:02He never exactly said.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07- GERARD STOCK:- He was going to take over the universe after the world,
0:12:07 > 0:12:10and to see if she could eventually take over the world,
0:12:10 > 0:12:12I believe the country that were mentioned were Brazil.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14She were going to get Brazil as a starter,
0:12:14 > 0:12:18to see if she could control that OK. So... I know.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23So she was being primed for ruler of Brazil?
0:12:23 > 0:12:25- Yes.- Yes.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28Why Brazil, I've absolutely no idea.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31Does she know... Had she been... Does she know much about Brazil?
0:12:31 > 0:12:33- I don't know. - I don't think so.
0:12:36 > 0:12:41MUSIC: Together We Are Beautiful by Fern Kinney
0:12:42 > 0:12:45# He walked into my life
0:12:47 > 0:12:50# And now he's taking over
0:12:52 > 0:12:55# And it's beautiful
0:12:56 > 0:12:58# Yes, it's beautiful... #
0:12:58 > 0:13:01It all began in 1976
0:13:01 > 0:13:04when Balakrishnan founded his Maoist Collective.
0:13:05 > 0:13:09The Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought
0:13:09 > 0:13:12was on Acre Lane in Brixton in South London.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16# I think we're beautiful...#
0:13:17 > 0:13:21His group included his Tanzanian wife, Chanda,
0:13:21 > 0:13:26her disabled sister and about 15 core followers,
0:13:26 > 0:13:29most of whom, like him, were students from Asia.
0:13:32 > 0:13:37One of them, Aisha Wahab, has never spoken to the media before.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41She had come from Malaysia at the age of 24
0:13:41 > 0:13:43to study quantity surveying.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50I was really inspired by him, you know.
0:13:50 > 0:13:53And I thought he...
0:13:53 > 0:13:55he was great, you know, to have...
0:13:56 > 0:14:00..been able to clarify our minds
0:14:00 > 0:14:03as to what to do with our lives, really.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09Were you happy living in The Collective, Aisha?
0:14:11 > 0:14:13Yes, I thought every...
0:14:14 > 0:14:18..day was very interesting.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21I was never, ever bored.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24There is always something new to learn,
0:14:24 > 0:14:27there's something new to do.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30I mean, everything was...
0:14:31 > 0:14:34I just can't imagine I would have...
0:14:35 > 0:14:38..had a better life than that.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48Also in the group were two middle-class British women -
0:14:48 > 0:14:52Josie, who was studying music when she met Balakrishnan,
0:14:52 > 0:14:54and Sian Davies,
0:14:54 > 0:14:57a postgraduate student at the London School of Economics.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02I was particularly intrigued by Sian's story.
0:15:04 > 0:15:06How did you know Sian?
0:15:06 > 0:15:08I was at school with her.
0:15:08 > 0:15:11- And what school was it? - It was Cheltenham Ladies College.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19She was academic. I think she was quite profoundly academic
0:15:19 > 0:15:22in a funny way. It wasn't necessarily the type of academia
0:15:22 > 0:15:25that passed exams at a very high level at that stage,
0:15:25 > 0:15:27but she was a deep thinker.
0:15:40 > 0:15:43- THROUGH MEGAPHONE:- The Labour Party, the Tory Party,
0:15:43 > 0:15:46and the Liberals are all enemies of the working class...
0:15:46 > 0:15:49We used to see them down in the marketplace.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52We used to have our paper sales there and other groups did as well.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55It was a bit of a crowded market.
0:15:55 > 0:15:56And these guys would turn up.
0:15:56 > 0:16:01They didn't have a paper to sell but they used to hand out leaflets
0:16:01 > 0:16:03and we used to collect them,
0:16:03 > 0:16:05because they were sort of like the comic relief.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09And we popped down the pub afterwards for a pint and we'd just
0:16:09 > 0:16:14roar with laughter at what the Workers Institute had to say.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19"The Communist Party of China and Chairman Mao are on the verge
0:16:19 > 0:16:22"of launching a final offensive this year
0:16:22 > 0:16:25"to dismantle the old world of colonialism,
0:16:25 > 0:16:30"imperialism and a hegemonism and build the new world of socialism."
0:16:32 > 0:16:34"And then," in emphasis,
0:16:34 > 0:16:38"eternal glory to our great leader and teacher, Chairman Mao Tse-tung.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41"Uphold proletarian internationalism."
0:16:41 > 0:16:43There we are.
0:16:49 > 0:16:53I have one specific memory of her...
0:16:55 > 0:16:58..which is probably the last time I saw her.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01I can't be sure of that, but I think it probably was,
0:17:01 > 0:17:02when she invited me for dinner.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05She had her boyfriend, Martin, there.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08And she was dressed in...
0:17:08 > 0:17:12dressed like a Maoist with all, you know, the blue and the collar,
0:17:12 > 0:17:19and the whole dinner we had the Chinese Communist radio playing
0:17:19 > 0:17:21and she talked to me...
0:17:24 > 0:17:27Well, the way she talked to me I didn't know who she was.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30She had become a Communist in the way she was talking to me.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32She, she...
0:17:32 > 0:17:35There was nothing of her coming through at all by this stage,
0:17:35 > 0:17:38that's what I would say. It was quite scary.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42I didn't like being there, it was too late, I had to stay the night.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45She didn't want to give me a bed because I wasn't a Communist.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47But I got a mattress eventually
0:17:47 > 0:17:50and I'm afraid the next morning I just ran away.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07One of the things that's interesting is that the Workers Institute
0:18:07 > 0:18:10was probably unique among the groups of the far left,
0:18:10 > 0:18:14in that they didn't see themselves as being in the business
0:18:14 > 0:18:17of creating a revolution. They saw their role
0:18:17 > 0:18:22as preparing the population in the "imperialist heartlands",
0:18:22 > 0:18:25as they referred to Brixton, London, Britain,
0:18:25 > 0:18:27for liberation by the Chinese.
0:18:34 > 0:18:38Did they set a date when the Chinese Liberation Army were going to do this?
0:18:38 > 0:18:40End of 1977.
0:18:40 > 0:18:45And so, very early in 1978,
0:18:45 > 0:18:49I had a conversation with several of the members at the time,
0:18:49 > 0:18:53expressed my disappointment that I had not been liberated from
0:18:53 > 0:18:56capitalist oppression as they had predicted.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02And they said that the computer satellites got so good that
0:19:02 > 0:19:07actually the Chinese do already control everything in the world,
0:19:07 > 0:19:10but they realise that you can't hand people socialism on a plate,
0:19:10 > 0:19:13they need to learn to struggle for themselves.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16So they have actually taken over everything but they're leaving
0:19:16 > 0:19:19the appearance of capitalism in place, so that people
0:19:19 > 0:19:23can actually have this experience of liberating themselves.
0:19:28 > 0:19:34The idea was that the Chinese Red Army would come
0:19:34 > 0:19:37and liberate the UK within a year.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40That's what Bala expected.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43- Yes.- Remember that?- Yes.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45So you're waiting for that to happen?
0:19:45 > 0:19:47Yes, I suppose.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50- It didn't happen. - It didn't happen, did it?
0:20:02 > 0:20:08I came across Aravindan Balakrishnan in the mid-70s.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11It was my formative years as a police officer,
0:20:11 > 0:20:14I was a uniformed police officer in Brixton.
0:20:18 > 0:20:22And it really was an age of lots happening.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26There was anti-capitalist marches.
0:20:28 > 0:20:33The whole environment was like a cauldron of demonstration.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37And in amongst all of that,
0:20:37 > 0:20:41appeared in these premises here in Acre Lane
0:20:41 > 0:20:45what was called the Chairman Mao Memorial Centre.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50And this was quite intriguing even for those days,
0:20:50 > 0:20:53and I decided to pay them a visit one day.
0:20:53 > 0:20:57And I said to Balakrishnan, "I'm going to be watching you.
0:20:57 > 0:21:01"And I'll be looking out every time I come by,
0:21:01 > 0:21:04"what you're doing in here."
0:21:09 > 0:21:12The Workers Institute were raided.
0:21:12 > 0:21:14That was very, very rare. We were all surprised,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17considering these guys had no presence anywhere
0:21:17 > 0:21:20and were only just like a nuisance to the authorities,
0:21:20 > 0:21:22of a non-political nature.
0:21:23 > 0:21:28We, the police, got a warrant, and it's very telling
0:21:28 > 0:21:32we got that warrant under the misuse of drugs act because, you know,
0:21:32 > 0:21:37our belief was that these people were on some form of drugs,
0:21:37 > 0:21:42and the place was raided by police and no drugs were found,
0:21:42 > 0:21:46and it was boarded up and closed down.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50And while their view is going to be,
0:21:50 > 0:21:53"Yes, this is the capitalist state closing us down",
0:21:53 > 0:21:57well, I'm sorry, sometimes it needs a hard hand.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00Well, we called it a trumped-up charge.
0:22:00 > 0:22:02You see, the charge was about
0:22:02 > 0:22:07having...drugs.
0:22:07 > 0:22:12Having and holding drugs and consuming drugs as well.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15So none of us even smoked cigarettes,
0:22:15 > 0:22:18so we don't know anything about drugs.
0:22:21 > 0:22:25This was seen as persecution and as I understand it,
0:22:25 > 0:22:29that's when Balakrishnan then withdrew
0:22:29 > 0:22:34into a much more almost a hermetic kind of environment
0:22:34 > 0:22:39with just the very, very small group of mostly female acolytes.
0:22:42 > 0:22:43People would say every so often,
0:22:43 > 0:22:46"Whatever happened to The Workers Institute?"
0:22:46 > 0:22:48Cos they'd suddenly disappeared,
0:22:48 > 0:22:51cos they'd always be there on the corner at Brixton.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53And then they suddenly disappeared.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56And now we know what happened, they went underground,
0:22:56 > 0:22:58or what was left of them.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07By 1980, The Collective was living in hiding
0:23:07 > 0:23:11and consisted of Balakrishnan, his wife and her sister,
0:23:11 > 0:23:15and seven other women, including Sian, Josie and Aisha.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19# I wanna be immortal
0:23:19 > 0:23:22# Like a God in the sky... #
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Exploiting their isolation from the world,
0:23:26 > 0:23:31Balakrishnan indoctrinated them with increasingly strange ideas.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40Was it your understanding that he was immortal?
0:23:41 > 0:23:44Well, he did say that,
0:23:44 > 0:23:48and he did repeat it again and again.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52And...
0:23:52 > 0:23:56he also showed how...
0:23:56 > 0:23:59it was possible for him to be immortal.
0:24:01 > 0:24:03How did he show that?
0:24:03 > 0:24:05Well...
0:24:07 > 0:24:10..you know, different things.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14For example, he never believes in going to the dentist
0:24:14 > 0:24:18because he say we should let the teeth drop naturally.
0:24:20 > 0:24:21- Hello again.- Hello.
0:24:21 > 0:24:25'And then by the time you're 100 years, the teeth will re-grow.'
0:24:25 > 0:24:28Hi, I'm Dr Hare. Pleased to meet you. Would you like to have a seat?
0:24:28 > 0:24:32And then you have another set of teeth
0:24:32 > 0:24:35and then when those drop, you re-grow again.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38I just want to have a talk with you about your teeth.
0:24:38 > 0:24:42You see, you've lost quite a number of teeth, over the years.
0:24:42 > 0:24:47We lost teeth, we wait until the tooth has grown again.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50- Yes.- Until the tooth grows on its own?
0:24:50 > 0:24:55Yes. It will grow on its own when we are 100 or over years.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59- It will grow back on its own?- Yes. - Have you ever heard of that?
0:24:59 > 0:25:01- Have you ever heard of teeth growing back?- No.
0:25:03 > 0:25:05Well, I've heard of it.
0:25:05 > 0:25:09It does happen, but I don't know if I'm going to be even 100 years old.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11Yeah, yeah,
0:25:11 > 0:25:14- you see sometimes it's better to keep what you have...- Yes.
0:25:14 > 0:25:16..rather than wait for...
0:25:16 > 0:25:19No, no, I don't lose my teeth on purpose.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21No, no, I know.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25What I was told is that let the teeth fall by itself,
0:25:25 > 0:25:27and that it will grow up again.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29Who said this to you?
0:25:29 > 0:25:32- Somebody I know. - Somebody you know. Right.
0:25:33 > 0:25:36I suppose, again, you know, from the outside,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39it does sound like you were brainwashed.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41What's your response to that, Aisha?
0:25:42 > 0:25:45I think a question of brainwashed, I quite agree.
0:25:45 > 0:25:50I think the line that we were given
0:25:50 > 0:25:53is that we do need to be...
0:25:53 > 0:25:55Our brains did need to be washed.
0:25:57 > 0:25:59Because it was,
0:25:59 > 0:26:00you know it was...
0:26:02 > 0:26:06..dirty, you know, mucky or whatever.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08Had to be washed of all ideas.
0:26:09 > 0:26:13When you bring...want to build a new world
0:26:13 > 0:26:18you can't bring the old, you know, into it.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21So we had to chip away the old
0:26:21 > 0:26:24and in place you can't leave it blank,
0:26:24 > 0:26:25you have to fill the void.
0:26:30 > 0:26:32In 1983,
0:26:32 > 0:26:37Balakrishnan's socialist programme took a new and sinister direction.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42He began an experiment which he called Project Prem.
0:26:44 > 0:26:50When Katy was born, did you know who the father of the baby was?
0:26:50 > 0:26:51No.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56I did ask Sian.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59I said, because at first when she was pregnant
0:26:59 > 0:27:02we didn't know she was pregnant. Well, I didn't, anyway.
0:27:02 > 0:27:05So I said, "Sian," you know, "are you pregnant?"
0:27:07 > 0:27:09Because her tummy was going bigger.
0:27:09 > 0:27:11She said, "No, it's not."
0:27:11 > 0:27:14I said, "Why is your body like this?"
0:27:14 > 0:27:18So she said, you know, "Some people do have it like this.
0:27:18 > 0:27:22"That's gas in the body and, you know, it gets bigger and bigger."
0:27:24 > 0:27:29So that's it. And when Katy was born I was really shocked.
0:27:29 > 0:27:31Do you think Sian believed that?
0:27:31 > 0:27:33Did she know she was pregnant?
0:27:33 > 0:27:35Maybe she didn't, I don't know.
0:27:35 > 0:27:37Maybe she didn't either, you know.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40So that must have been a real surprise.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43- Yes.- So she had a big tummy for whatever strange reason,
0:27:43 > 0:27:47- and then suddenly a baby arrived. - That's right, yes.
0:27:55 > 0:27:59I think he used to say that I was brought out of electronic warfare.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04His mind control machine, Jackie, was meant to have...
0:28:06 > 0:28:09..got Sian pregnant I suppose.
0:28:12 > 0:28:15Tell me what name you were given at birth, Katy.
0:28:15 > 0:28:17Prem Maopinduzi.
0:28:19 > 0:28:24The first name, Prem, is in ancient language, it is meant to mean love,
0:28:24 > 0:28:27and the second name is,
0:28:27 > 0:28:31I think it is from Swahili, it means revolution.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37So it meant love revolution,
0:28:37 > 0:28:39and...
0:28:39 > 0:28:41I hated that.
0:28:42 > 0:28:45- Because your name was actually an instruction.- Yes.
0:28:45 > 0:28:47- It was like "You must love revolution"?- Yes.
0:28:50 > 0:28:54And he thought that when he rules the world that I'm meant to be like
0:28:54 > 0:28:57a soldier for him or his mouthpiece.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04Project Prem was an experiment in child-rearing,
0:29:04 > 0:29:07intended to eliminate the nuclear family.
0:29:10 > 0:29:13Comrade Prem, as Katy was known,
0:29:13 > 0:29:15was dressed in genderless clothing,
0:29:15 > 0:29:18was never told who her parents were
0:29:18 > 0:29:20and was raised collectively by the group.
0:29:29 > 0:29:35- AISHA:- It is a new way of looking after a baby, it is not done before.
0:29:37 > 0:29:41I'm so used to babies being held and cuddled
0:29:41 > 0:29:43and carried and things like that.
0:29:43 > 0:29:47We were discouraged from doing those things because...
0:29:49 > 0:29:52..I wasn't really
0:29:52 > 0:29:54clear exactly what
0:29:54 > 0:29:59the correct lines were, but
0:29:59 > 0:30:00it meant to, um...
0:30:02 > 0:30:06..you see, the baby meant to be solid
0:30:06 > 0:30:10without any encumbrances from anywhere else, you see.
0:30:10 > 0:30:13So you just meant to stand by him...herself.
0:30:14 > 0:30:17I suppose that was the idea, you know,
0:30:17 > 0:30:20that when you hold somebody or caress somebody
0:30:20 > 0:30:23there's a bonding going on, you know,
0:30:23 > 0:30:26there's a bond between baby and mother.
0:30:27 > 0:30:33But that wasn't that encouraged in Katy.
0:30:36 > 0:30:39He was the only one who was meant to cuddle me
0:30:39 > 0:30:41and no-one else was meant to, because
0:30:41 > 0:30:44if I was to cuddle other people,
0:30:44 > 0:30:47he used to say that that's being,
0:30:47 > 0:30:50like being a lesbian to cuddle other women.
0:30:52 > 0:30:56When Katy was born there were plenty of things I had to question...
0:30:57 > 0:30:59..and this was one of them,
0:30:59 > 0:31:03about treatment of Katy, disciplining of her.
0:31:05 > 0:31:07And there was a discipline on me as well.
0:31:07 > 0:31:11There was once when Katy wet herself
0:31:11 > 0:31:14and she was only four and...
0:31:14 > 0:31:17you know, she was denounced
0:31:17 > 0:31:20and I was denounced as well for letting her wet her...
0:31:20 > 0:31:24And I was so angry about it, I really felt
0:31:24 > 0:31:28like running out the house at that time, but I didn't.
0:31:28 > 0:31:31I tried hard not to because
0:31:31 > 0:31:35then I could see that if I had gone out, I had nobody outside.
0:31:35 > 0:31:37I'd lost contact with my family.
0:31:37 > 0:31:40I had no money, I had no job...
0:31:41 > 0:31:43..and I might have been deported.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49They were strange.
0:31:49 > 0:31:53If you see them on the street, even shopping, they never say hello.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56They just go straight in, out. Yeah.
0:31:56 > 0:31:58If I'm in the garden, they're upstairs,
0:31:58 > 0:32:01if they see anyone out, if you look up,
0:32:01 > 0:32:05they close the curtain so you don't actually see who's looking.
0:32:05 > 0:32:07What did you think, they were unusual neighbours?
0:32:07 > 0:32:11I just thought were refugees that lived there.
0:32:11 > 0:32:14I thought they were hiding from somebody, never speak.
0:32:14 > 0:32:18But one looked like, she looked like English.
0:32:20 > 0:32:24But the others looked like Chinese or Filipino, whatever.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28But one, she's tall and the rest short.
0:32:30 > 0:32:32The garden was overgrown, it must have been three/four foot
0:32:32 > 0:32:35all the time since them people left. And it was the same with
0:32:35 > 0:32:37the front of the house, he would never cut anything.
0:32:37 > 0:32:40He would always tie the stuff back just enough to get a wheelchair
0:32:40 > 0:32:42in and out, and the whole garden was covered in weeds.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46Curtains were never opened at any time at all, front or back of house.
0:32:46 > 0:32:48The only time you'd see them was sometimes at the back when
0:32:48 > 0:32:50the little girl would turn round and
0:32:50 > 0:32:52pop the head up, pop back down again.
0:32:57 > 0:32:59So is it disturbing to you, Peter,
0:32:59 > 0:33:02to think that there was a child being held captive next door?
0:33:02 > 0:33:04I mean, as I'm talking to yourself now,
0:33:04 > 0:33:06it's actually bringing a lump to the throat.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21What aspect of it is upsetting for you, Peter?
0:33:22 > 0:33:24It's just the thought of what that child has gone through,
0:33:24 > 0:33:26at the time I just didn't do anything about it.
0:33:26 > 0:33:28I mean, I'm so sorry that I didn't.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32Again, I didn't know what was happening but if I did,
0:33:32 > 0:33:34I definitely would have done something about it.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48- KATY:- One night, 1996,
0:33:48 > 0:33:52there was screaming in the middle of the night, and subsequently
0:33:52 > 0:33:57I learned that Sian had tried to stab herself with a knife.
0:34:00 > 0:34:02And then...
0:34:02 > 0:34:05on the early morning of Christmas Eve,
0:34:05 > 0:34:08again there was screaming and shouting in the middle of the night
0:34:08 > 0:34:11so I went downstairs with Aisha,
0:34:11 > 0:34:13who I was sleeping with and found...
0:34:16 > 0:34:17Sian's...
0:34:17 > 0:34:21Sian was lying on the floor and she had been tied up.
0:34:21 > 0:34:25Her hands and legs were tied and she was gagged.
0:34:28 > 0:34:31And she had this piece of cloth in her mouth.
0:34:31 > 0:34:35I don't know if it was a sock or something, I don't know.
0:34:35 > 0:34:39And Oh and Josie were both holding her down on the floor
0:34:39 > 0:34:41and they had tied her up
0:34:41 > 0:34:44and Bala and Chanda were both shouting at her.
0:34:48 > 0:34:52She had tried to run out, that's why she was tied up.
0:34:52 > 0:34:55So you think she was trying to leave, or trying to escape?
0:34:55 > 0:34:57Yeah, she was trying to escape.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01And then because she couldn't escape that way, that's why she...
0:35:01 > 0:35:04she went out through the window, thinking she could escape that way.
0:35:04 > 0:35:06She had lost her mind by that time.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14AB said that,
0:35:14 > 0:35:16you know, that she fell.
0:35:16 > 0:35:21He started from the beginning to say that she fell,
0:35:21 > 0:35:24you know, because of the nature of the bathroom.
0:35:25 > 0:35:28So I just stuck to that.
0:35:35 > 0:35:37Having fallen from the bathroom window,
0:35:37 > 0:35:41Sian was taken to hospital where she fell into a coma
0:35:41 > 0:35:43and died seven months later.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48There was an inquest after Sian's death
0:35:48 > 0:35:51and at that inquest you were asked whether she had any children.
0:35:51 > 0:35:53- Yes.- And you said no.
0:35:53 > 0:35:55No. Yes.
0:35:55 > 0:35:57Why was that your response?
0:35:57 > 0:35:59Because AB said to do so.
0:36:01 > 0:36:06Because we definitely didn't want Katy to be taken away
0:36:06 > 0:36:09and then live a life as of old, you know.
0:36:10 > 0:36:15And not participate to build a new...society.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27At the time of the inquest,
0:36:27 > 0:36:32a journalist visited The Collective and had an exchange on the doorstep
0:36:32 > 0:36:35with Josie, Aisha, and a third woman,
0:36:35 > 0:36:37Oh Kareng, who was also from Malaysia.
0:36:37 > 0:36:40You have come when you come, when the milkman comes,
0:36:40 > 0:36:42you're part of the fascist state.
0:36:42 > 0:36:44Could we speak to Comrade Bala, please?
0:36:44 > 0:36:47You're part of the fascist state and if you don't stop harassing us
0:36:47 > 0:36:49we'll call the open fascist state on you.
0:36:49 > 0:36:51Could we speak to Comrade Bala, please?
0:36:51 > 0:36:53We don't want to talk to you.
0:36:53 > 0:36:55Are you higher than the Coroner's Court?
0:36:55 > 0:36:58Everything has to be sorted out there.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00I'd just like to ask you very simple questions.
0:37:00 > 0:37:01Why won't you speak to us?
0:37:01 > 0:37:03You are showing that you're a part of the fascist state.
0:37:03 > 0:37:05Josephine, why won't you speak to us, please?
0:37:05 > 0:37:07You are showing us that. We don't want to talk to you.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10Please. Could we speak to Comrade Bala, please?
0:37:10 > 0:37:11We don't want to talk to you.
0:37:14 > 0:37:17Sian died when Katy was only 14.
0:37:19 > 0:37:24After she died, did life get better or worse for you?
0:37:24 > 0:37:26Life got better for me in a funny way.
0:37:26 > 0:37:28I mean, because she was
0:37:28 > 0:37:30one of the worst,
0:37:30 > 0:37:33like, servants
0:37:33 > 0:37:35of...of Bala.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40So it was such a relief with her not there.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43Because his sort of worst kind of enforcer had gone?
0:37:43 > 0:37:46Yes, his worse enforcer had gone, yes.
0:37:55 > 0:37:57Life may have improved
0:37:57 > 0:38:01but the unbearable tyranny of Project Prem continued.
0:38:11 > 0:38:16He used to say that everything would go against me if I had
0:38:16 > 0:38:20done wrong,
0:38:20 > 0:38:22so like...
0:38:24 > 0:38:26..possibly the, like the light shouldn't work
0:38:26 > 0:38:28or the tap shouldn't work
0:38:28 > 0:38:31because everything is controlled by him,
0:38:31 > 0:38:34by Jackie, his mind control machine.
0:38:34 > 0:38:36So, like,
0:38:36 > 0:38:39I went to the bathroom and turned the tap on,
0:38:39 > 0:38:42it shouldn't work because I had done wrong.
0:38:42 > 0:38:46But then when I went to the bathroom and the tap did work
0:38:46 > 0:38:50I thought, "Oh, the tap, you're on my side, thank you,"
0:38:50 > 0:38:52and I kissed the tap
0:38:52 > 0:38:55and hugged the toilet when the flush worked.
0:39:09 > 0:39:12I used to look forward to the clocks changing,
0:39:12 > 0:39:15when they used to go forward in March or go backwards in October,
0:39:15 > 0:39:19because that made things a bit different.
0:39:19 > 0:39:22Get darker or lighter in the evenings.
0:39:33 > 0:39:36In 2004, Comrade Oh,
0:39:36 > 0:39:38who had been with Balakrishnan since the '70s
0:39:38 > 0:39:41had an accident in the kitchen.
0:39:44 > 0:39:46I think she banged her head...
0:39:47 > 0:39:51..and she collapsed
0:39:51 > 0:39:55and she was shouting, "Call the doctor."
0:39:56 > 0:40:02Bala and Chanda kept harassing her as she was collapsing
0:40:02 > 0:40:04and she was ill and kept saying,
0:40:04 > 0:40:08talking, talking, talking to her and trying to force to answer questions,
0:40:08 > 0:40:12and she couldn't answer because she was,
0:40:12 > 0:40:16she was dying, really, and then they started saying to her,
0:40:16 > 0:40:17"Stop throwing a tantrum.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21"Nobody bangs their head and refuses to talk," and things like that,
0:40:21 > 0:40:23but she was actually...
0:40:25 > 0:40:28..unable to,
0:40:28 > 0:40:31to talk because she was...
0:40:31 > 0:40:33She had a stroke.
0:40:33 > 0:40:35And then the next day she died.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45By now, two comrades had died
0:40:45 > 0:40:49and three other women who had been with the group since the 1970s
0:40:49 > 0:40:50had chosen to leave.
0:40:52 > 0:40:55The Collective had dwindled to just six.
0:40:55 > 0:40:57Balakrishnan, his wife, Chanda,
0:40:57 > 0:40:59her sister and Katy,
0:40:59 > 0:41:03and only two remaining followers, Josie and Aisha.
0:41:06 > 0:41:09Josie and Aisha were required to do all the housework.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14And The Collective depended financially
0:41:14 > 0:41:16on Chanda's Carer's Allowance
0:41:16 > 0:41:19and her sister's disability benefit.
0:41:22 > 0:41:26Balakrishnan continued to frighten the few remaining members
0:41:26 > 0:41:28of the household into staying.
0:41:31 > 0:41:34He also used to say that if I defied him,
0:41:34 > 0:41:38and just wanted to go out on my own then...
0:41:39 > 0:41:41..either there will be...
0:41:41 > 0:41:43Lightning will strike me dead or...
0:41:44 > 0:41:47..blow up, as it's called, spontaneous human combustion.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53- So that you would spontaneously combust?- Yes.
0:41:55 > 0:41:57- Or explode?- Mm.
0:42:00 > 0:42:05To me, that idea that someone would spontaneously combust
0:42:05 > 0:42:08if they left their flat is complete nonsense,
0:42:08 > 0:42:10to me, with my worldview.
0:42:12 > 0:42:15Now that you're out and living your own life,
0:42:15 > 0:42:18can you see that that sounds like nonsense?
0:42:18 > 0:42:21Well, it...
0:42:21 > 0:42:25I can see that it can be nonsensical but...
0:42:26 > 0:42:31..there is such a thing as spontaneous human combustion.
0:42:32 > 0:42:37I've read about it in two or three different places,
0:42:37 > 0:42:40so I have an open mind about that.
0:42:45 > 0:42:50But as to whether, if he can induce it as and when he wants,
0:42:50 > 0:42:52that's the different issue.
0:42:54 > 0:42:56# I have a dream
0:42:58 > 0:43:00# A song to sing
0:43:02 > 0:43:05# To help me cope
0:43:07 > 0:43:09# With anything...#
0:43:09 > 0:43:12In 2005, at the age of 22,
0:43:12 > 0:43:15having never gone outside on her own
0:43:15 > 0:43:19and despite believing she could be killed by Jackie,
0:43:19 > 0:43:23Katy decided to take the risk and made a break for it.
0:43:25 > 0:43:27How did you get out of the house?
0:43:28 > 0:43:31By the back door.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36And then just carrying lots of bags and things.
0:43:37 > 0:43:40And somebody saw me and said,
0:43:40 > 0:43:44"Do you need any help with your bags?"
0:43:44 > 0:43:47So I said, "No, but I've run away from home."
0:43:47 > 0:43:48So they said...
0:43:50 > 0:43:52So I said, "What do I do?"
0:43:52 > 0:43:54So they said, go to the police station.
0:43:54 > 0:43:56So I did.
0:44:00 > 0:44:04Tell me what happened when you went into the police station?
0:44:04 > 0:44:05So they persuaded...
0:44:07 > 0:44:09..me to let them call,
0:44:09 > 0:44:13call Bala, so then he came.
0:44:15 > 0:44:19Balakrishnan reassured the police that all was well
0:44:19 > 0:44:22and took Katy back to The Collective,
0:44:22 > 0:44:25where she remained in captivity for another eight years.
0:44:30 > 0:44:37AB did say that he liked to discuss things and query things,
0:44:37 > 0:44:40why things are done like this or like that.
0:44:42 > 0:44:49But he said that if it's gone more than two or three times
0:44:49 > 0:44:54then he resorts to, you know, slapping you or, you know...
0:44:55 > 0:44:59..on the face, you see. And something...
0:44:59 > 0:45:01Sometimes other parts as well.
0:45:01 > 0:45:04So, yes, it did happen.
0:45:04 > 0:45:07- It did take place. - So you were beaten?
0:45:07 > 0:45:09I was, yes.
0:45:09 > 0:45:10Was everybody beaten?
0:45:12 > 0:45:15I would have thought so, yes.
0:45:15 > 0:45:17These are outrageous allegations, it didn't happen.
0:45:17 > 0:45:20- Did you ever see him hit anybody? - No.
0:45:20 > 0:45:23- Or humiliate anybody? - No, I didn't.- Shout at anybody?
0:45:23 > 0:45:27- He didn't do that to me. No.- You never saw anything like that?
0:45:27 > 0:45:29No, I didn't.
0:45:36 > 0:45:39Every aspect of life in The Collective was neatly timetabled
0:45:39 > 0:45:42and logged in handwritten rotas,
0:45:42 > 0:45:45including Balakrishnan's baths and meals.
0:45:54 > 0:45:58But over time, the daily schedule evolved.
0:45:58 > 0:46:02Previously, only Balakrishnan and his wife had had access
0:46:02 > 0:46:04to the television,
0:46:04 > 0:46:08but now all the comrades were allowed to watch selected programmes
0:46:08 > 0:46:10including the Six O'Clock News.
0:46:12 > 0:46:13Would you discuss the news with him?
0:46:13 > 0:46:16Would you discuss world events with him?
0:46:16 > 0:46:18He would discuss with us.
0:46:18 > 0:46:20- So he would talk and you would listen.- Mm.
0:46:20 > 0:46:24It sounds like there wasn't much discussion, actually,
0:46:24 > 0:46:26cos discussion means people exchanging ideas.
0:46:26 > 0:46:29- That's right.- But actually he talked and you listened.
0:46:29 > 0:46:33- That's right.- So there's no discussion, in fact.- No.
0:46:41 > 0:46:46In her late twenties, Katy, suffering from undiagnosed diabetes,
0:46:46 > 0:46:49began to rapidly lose weight.
0:46:49 > 0:46:53Terrified that a third member of The Collective might die,
0:46:53 > 0:46:57Josie committed to memory a helpline number she had seen on the news.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02If you or someone you know is affected by forced marriage,
0:47:02 > 0:47:04call the BBC Action Line to hear recorded information.
0:47:04 > 0:47:06That's on 0800...
0:47:06 > 0:47:09Josie saved money in secret,
0:47:09 > 0:47:11smuggled a mobile phone into the flat
0:47:11 > 0:47:14and in protracted discussions with the helpline,
0:47:14 > 0:47:16put together an escape plan.
0:47:18 > 0:47:21It was arranged that Katy and Josie would leave
0:47:21 > 0:47:24when Balakrishnan and Chanda were out shopping.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31So at 11:15 sharp we left,
0:47:31 > 0:47:35Josie and me, with our trolleys.
0:47:37 > 0:47:41I had absolutely no intention of leaving, you know.
0:47:41 > 0:47:44In fact leaving The Collective for me was really sort of like
0:47:44 > 0:47:46breaking my heart, really. But...
0:47:48 > 0:47:51I could see that she needed help, so, you know.
0:47:51 > 0:47:55She asked me to go with her, so I agreed to do it.
0:47:56 > 0:47:59I regret it very much now but at that time...
0:48:00 > 0:48:02..I didn't think that...
0:48:04 > 0:48:06..it would all blow up like this.
0:48:10 > 0:48:13As Katy and Josie made their way to freedom,
0:48:13 > 0:48:16Aisha chose to stay in The Collective and was there
0:48:16 > 0:48:19when Balakrishnan and Chanda came back.
0:48:25 > 0:48:29He was denouncing Katy and Josie...
0:48:31 > 0:48:37..and saying that now they have joined the British fascist state
0:48:37 > 0:48:39and all those things.
0:48:39 > 0:48:43So, it was time for lunch so I said, I'll cook lunch.
0:48:43 > 0:48:49So we were just sitting down to have lunch when the police came.
0:48:50 > 0:48:52I told the police I'd come with them.
0:48:54 > 0:48:59But as I was coming out I saw Chanda there and Bala there,
0:48:59 > 0:49:02I went and hugged them.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05Whatever I, you know, my misgivings...
0:49:07 > 0:49:09..I hugged them anyway.
0:49:12 > 0:49:14Was that the last time you saw them, Aisha?
0:49:14 > 0:49:18- Mm-hmm.- And that's sad... That memory is very sad for you?
0:49:18 > 0:49:22- Sorry?- Is that very sad for you when you remember that?
0:49:23 > 0:49:25You look upset about that.
0:49:25 > 0:49:27Yes, I am upset.
0:49:27 > 0:49:30Because you'd been with them for 40 years or so?
0:49:30 > 0:49:33And they were like family, really, to you?
0:49:57 > 0:50:00In the course of the police investigation,
0:50:00 > 0:50:04all charges against Balakrishnan's wife, Chanda, were dropped,
0:50:04 > 0:50:08but new charges were brought against Balakrishnan himself.
0:50:08 > 0:50:12It emerged that as well as having had sex with Sian,
0:50:12 > 0:50:17Balakrishnan has sexually abused two other women over a period of years,
0:50:17 > 0:50:21both of whom had fled The Collective by the early '90s.
0:50:23 > 0:50:28The first incident with Ms A
0:50:28 > 0:50:31was when she was
0:50:31 > 0:50:34called into Mr Balakrishnan's bedroom.
0:50:34 > 0:50:37It had never happened before. She didn't know why.
0:50:38 > 0:50:44And without warning, he kissed her.
0:50:45 > 0:50:51Mr Balakrishnan then began to summon Ms A to his bedroom,
0:50:51 > 0:50:57and where the sexual abuse that had begun with a kiss
0:50:57 > 0:51:01then became more extreme in nature.
0:51:01 > 0:51:02And became...
0:51:04 > 0:51:08..sexual abuse involving oral sex,
0:51:08 > 0:51:12forcing her to perform oral sex upon him
0:51:12 > 0:51:16and thereafter of sexual intercourse, rape.
0:51:17 > 0:51:20The serious sexual abuse of that type continued...
0:51:21 > 0:51:24..and involved in addition...
0:51:25 > 0:51:29..the defendant ordering her to lick his anus.
0:51:30 > 0:51:32She did as she was ordered,
0:51:32 > 0:51:37notwithstanding the distress that plainly she was exhibiting.
0:51:42 > 0:51:45One of the women who testified in court
0:51:45 > 0:51:47said that when she tried to leave,
0:51:47 > 0:51:50it says Woman A, was how she was called in court,
0:51:50 > 0:51:54when she tried to leave she said that
0:51:54 > 0:51:58Sian and Oh and Josie and you
0:51:58 > 0:52:02all held her down whilst Bala beat her.
0:52:02 > 0:52:04Is that true?
0:52:05 > 0:52:07God.
0:52:09 > 0:52:11I don't think I was there.
0:52:11 > 0:52:14I mean, I might have been there but not holding her down like that
0:52:14 > 0:52:16for AB to beat her.
0:52:20 > 0:52:23- Let me put it another way, if that was true, Aisha...- Mmm.
0:52:25 > 0:52:27..would you feel able to tell me?
0:52:27 > 0:52:29Or would it be too shameful?
0:52:31 > 0:52:34I would tell you if I had done it, you know.
0:52:34 > 0:52:37I would also be able to tell you why I did it,
0:52:37 > 0:52:40but it was against me to do it.
0:52:40 > 0:52:43It was against my instinct to do it, you know.
0:52:43 > 0:52:46So does that mean she's lying?
0:52:47 > 0:52:49She might have...
0:52:49 > 0:52:53..she might have thought I was there because all three of them,
0:52:53 > 0:52:58you know, if it's Sian, Josie and Oh was holding her down
0:52:58 > 0:53:03and I was there she might have thought I was also putting her down.
0:53:04 > 0:53:06I doubt there's even three of them,
0:53:06 > 0:53:09you don't need three people to...
0:53:09 > 0:53:12You know, maybe just Sian was holding her down.
0:53:12 > 0:53:15Cos AB doesn't need anybody to...
0:53:16 > 0:53:19..to be holding anybody for him to
0:53:19 > 0:53:22give you a smack on the face.
0:53:29 > 0:53:32A second woman, Woman B,
0:53:32 > 0:53:35testified to a similar pattern of sexual abuse.
0:53:36 > 0:53:39Balakrishnan was found guilty
0:53:39 > 0:53:42and was sentenced to 23 years in prison for crimes
0:53:42 > 0:53:45including rape, sexual assault,
0:53:45 > 0:53:49child cruelty and the false imprisonment of his daughter.
0:53:51 > 0:53:53This is a miscarriage of justice.
0:53:53 > 0:53:55It's the state taking their revenge
0:53:55 > 0:53:58because we were flourishing in Brixton,
0:53:58 > 0:54:00where we had our centre.
0:54:00 > 0:54:01Sorry to interrupt,
0:54:01 > 0:54:03but that's just nonsense.
0:54:03 > 0:54:07I mean, the judge found your husband
0:54:07 > 0:54:12and your guru to be a narcissistic, violent rapist.
0:54:12 > 0:54:16- He's completely wrong.- He's not. - He's completely wrong.
0:54:16 > 0:54:20I was living in the same house, he's completely wrong.
0:54:20 > 0:54:23I'm sad for Josie but that's her choice,
0:54:23 > 0:54:26so I have to respect her choice.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29And why are you sad for her? What are you sad about?
0:54:31 > 0:54:33I'm sad that she can't...
0:54:33 > 0:54:36can't free her mind from the spell of...
0:54:37 > 0:54:39..of the cult.
0:54:56 > 0:55:00Aisha is now 72, and is living in sheltered housing.
0:55:04 > 0:55:07Was any aspect of Bala's political experiment,
0:55:07 > 0:55:11was any aspect of that a success, would you say?
0:55:12 > 0:55:15I think the issue about...
0:55:17 > 0:55:21..loving somebody who is not your own,
0:55:21 > 0:55:24I think that is a success.
0:55:28 > 0:55:30That every child
0:55:30 > 0:55:34has the right to live properly, to be loved, to be cared.
0:55:37 > 0:55:39Do you see there's a contradiction there, Aisha,
0:55:39 > 0:55:42because Bala's has gone to prison for abusing Katy?
0:55:44 > 0:55:46Yes, but
0:55:46 > 0:55:47I mean...
0:55:49 > 0:55:55..we now know how Katy felt about it, and in the future,
0:55:55 > 0:55:57we know not to do that.
0:56:03 > 0:56:09If you can't find a new way then we carry on with the old, I suppose,
0:56:09 > 0:56:11but surely the old hasn't worked,
0:56:11 > 0:56:14so we still have to find what is better.
0:56:25 > 0:56:29Katy is doing her best to leave the indoctrination of her past behind.
0:56:29 > 0:56:33She's attending college and has recently moved
0:56:33 > 0:56:36out of supported accommodation into a flat of her own.
0:56:39 > 0:56:42When she first came, yes, she was 30 years old
0:56:42 > 0:56:44in the way that we measure age, but she wasn't.
0:56:44 > 0:56:48She was much probably nearer to ten or 11 or something like that.
0:56:48 > 0:56:51But we've almost seen this journey through the ages, I think,
0:56:51 > 0:56:55and I think she's getting very close to her numerical age now.
0:56:55 > 0:56:58- Yes.- I think she's in her 20s now.- Yes.
0:57:01 > 0:57:04- What about Bala, do you hate him?- No.
0:57:06 > 0:57:09Why don't you hate him, Katy? He stole 30 years of your life.
0:57:09 > 0:57:12Yes, I know.
0:57:12 > 0:57:17I did used to hate him because I had no other...
0:57:17 > 0:57:23I just felt completely powerless, so I did used to hate him then.
0:57:23 > 0:57:26But life is also very short.
0:57:26 > 0:57:28There's no time to be spent on
0:57:28 > 0:57:31hatred and anger towards other people.
0:57:31 > 0:57:34And also, when Nelson Mandela said that...
0:57:36 > 0:57:39..you are still in prison if you hold on to your anger,
0:57:39 > 0:57:41hatred and bitterness.
0:57:42 > 0:57:44So...
0:57:44 > 0:57:47I would like to reconcile with him in the future, yes.
0:57:49 > 0:57:51If he wants that,
0:57:51 > 0:57:54but you can't clap with one hand, so...
0:57:57 > 0:58:00# He walked into my life
0:58:02 > 0:58:04# And now he's taking over
0:58:06 > 0:58:09# And it's beautiful
0:58:11 > 0:58:14# Yes, it's beautiful
0:58:14 > 0:58:17# I've gone with better looking guys
0:58:19 > 0:58:22# He's gone with prettier looking girls
0:58:24 > 0:58:26# But now we're beautiful... #