0:00:08 > 0:00:11Saira Khan, TV presenter and entrepreneur,
0:00:11 > 0:00:15is best known for her stint on the first series of The Apprentice.
0:00:15 > 0:00:21But despite all their success, Saira and husband Steve Hyde
0:00:21 > 0:00:25long for another baby, the one thing that remains
0:00:25 > 0:00:26beyond their control.
0:00:26 > 0:00:30What do you say after you've finished? What do you say to Mummy?
0:00:30 > 0:00:36If somebody said to me now, "Zach is the only child you're ever going to have"
0:00:36 > 0:00:40that would upset me, and it wouldn't feel right,
0:00:40 > 0:00:42and we'd want to do something about it,
0:00:42 > 0:00:47and that's why I am going to adopt a little baby girl.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49We want to complete our family.
0:00:53 > 0:00:58Four years ago, Saira made a life-changing visit
0:00:58 > 0:01:02to an orphanage in Pakistan that she's never been able to forget.
0:01:02 > 0:01:08There was something that was left behind from that visit that I brought back to England...
0:01:10 > 0:01:13..and it has always stayed with me and in my mind.
0:01:15 > 0:01:19I believe in fate that I was meant to go there for a reason.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Pakistan is one of the most dangerous countries in the world
0:01:24 > 0:01:32but despite that, Steve and Saira are determined to return to the orphanage in search of a baby.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35- Oh, God! - They're desperate, aren't they?
0:01:35 > 0:01:38Before they set off on this journey into the unknown,
0:01:38 > 0:01:42they'll have to be approved through the gruelling adoption process
0:01:42 > 0:01:44here in the UK.
0:01:44 > 0:01:49This whole journey is going to be painful, it's not going to go according to plan,
0:01:49 > 0:01:50people are going to wind me up.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54If we jump in at the deep end, I'll be challenging, I'm afraid.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57I'm going to get crazy.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59Stop saying "regulate"!
0:01:59 > 0:02:04'Steve's going to do my head in, I'm going to do Steve's head in.
0:02:04 > 0:02:06'I can visualise all those points,'
0:02:06 > 0:02:10but the bit that I'm thinking about
0:02:10 > 0:02:13is the day that I get a little baby in my arms.
0:02:26 > 0:02:32Four years ago, Steve and Saira discovered they couldn't conceive naturally,
0:02:32 > 0:02:35and, to have Zach, they had to go through IVF.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37Give Daddy kisses all over his face.
0:02:37 > 0:02:41'The moment that Zach kind of came into the world,'
0:02:41 > 0:02:44it was like somebody had taken another heart and put it into me
0:02:44 > 0:02:49and it gave me a whole new capacity to love something else or love someone else.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52It was just a completely overwhelming experience from that point of view.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55And kiss Daddy's ears.
0:02:55 > 0:03:01They wanted another child, but their second IVF attempt failed.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Saira was nearly 40.
0:03:04 > 0:03:05..then Mummy put you to bed.
0:03:05 > 0:03:10'We were both older parents but, Saira in particular, the clock is ticking.
0:03:10 > 0:03:11'We actually agreed,'
0:03:11 > 0:03:16before Saira went for a second bout of IVF, so this was after we had Zach,
0:03:16 > 0:03:19we actually agreed that we'd give it one go
0:03:19 > 0:03:22and if it didn't work, we'd look to adopt.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28In the UK, so few infants are given up for adoption,
0:03:28 > 0:03:34Saira and Steve know they could be waiting years for the baby they so desperately want.
0:03:34 > 0:03:42We have a higher chance of getting a newborn baby from somewhere like Pakistan
0:03:42 > 0:03:48whereas in England it's very unlikely that, in the timeframe we're looking at, that we'd get a baby.
0:03:50 > 0:03:55And the reason adopting a baby is important to us
0:03:55 > 0:03:58is because we already have a child, and Zach is two,
0:03:58 > 0:04:04and we're thinking about how that would fit in with his life. It's not just about me and Steve,
0:04:04 > 0:04:09it's about bringing a new baby and giving that baby attention and love alongside Zach.
0:04:11 > 0:04:16What's more, Saira has her heart set on bringing home a sister for Zach.
0:04:19 > 0:04:24Babies are abandoned and left to die on the streets of Pakistan every day.
0:04:26 > 0:04:32There are no official records of how many. Most of them are girls.
0:04:35 > 0:04:41The Edhi Foundation Charity took in 240 of these infants last year.
0:04:44 > 0:04:46Some of them were found in special cots,
0:04:46 > 0:04:51where babies can be left at any time of the day or night.
0:04:58 > 0:05:03I know that baby girls are thrown into the skip in Pakistan
0:05:03 > 0:05:05because they're girls, because the women who have them
0:05:05 > 0:05:08are really poor, they can't look after them.
0:05:11 > 0:05:16We also want to be able to give this child an opportunity
0:05:16 > 0:05:21for a fantastic life, to be brought into a really loving family.
0:05:21 > 0:05:25And, for me, that's something to fight for.
0:05:32 > 0:05:38SHE WHISPERS: I love you, I love you, I love you.
0:05:38 > 0:05:40I love you, baby.
0:05:46 > 0:05:51Only 140 children were adopted into the UK from overseas last year.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57PACT, Parents And Children Together,
0:05:57 > 0:06:00deal with inter-country and domestic adoptions
0:06:00 > 0:06:04on behalf of 35 local authorities.
0:06:04 > 0:06:09Hi, I'm returning a call from Liz Chalice. My name's Hannah Penny.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12Even though they're hoping to adopt a child from Pakistan,
0:06:12 > 0:06:20Saira and Steve have to undergo the same rigorous assessment as anyone who adopts within the UK.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23The process that prospective parents have to follow
0:06:23 > 0:06:26is almost identical, so anyone coming to PACT,
0:06:26 > 0:06:29whether they want to adopt in the UK or overseas,
0:06:29 > 0:06:33will need to have the same regulated checks and procedures undertaken,
0:06:33 > 0:06:40the same application process, very similar preparation groups, identical home studies almost.
0:06:41 > 0:06:45Saira and Steve have applied to PACT, and, if they're accepted,
0:06:45 > 0:06:50their already pressurised lives will be placed under close scrutiny.
0:06:50 > 0:06:52OK, so it needs to be seen, does it?
0:06:52 > 0:07:00Steven, the social worker is going to say, "Why have you got the child's toy right at the back of the garden?"
0:07:00 > 0:07:04And I'm going to say, "Oh, it's because my husband doesn't like the lawn to look bad."
0:07:04 > 0:07:09These social workers who have been going round to loads of people's houses, they do it for a living,
0:07:09 > 0:07:11they know what they're looking for,
0:07:11 > 0:07:16and I'm saying, we've got to forget what's perfect and what's right, cos I think you and I,
0:07:16 > 0:07:18what are we going to be like?
0:07:18 > 0:07:20We'll be fine, Saira, but the one thing I'd say,
0:07:20 > 0:07:26I've got no problem with having it but, you know, it needs to go towards the back of the garden. OK?
0:07:28 > 0:07:34An introductory assessment with an experienced PACT social worker
0:07:34 > 0:07:37is the first step on the process.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41We haven't even started and we're stressed out, honest to God.
0:07:41 > 0:07:43Hello, Sarah, I'm Saira, nice to meet you.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45I'm Steve, nice to meet you. How are you?
0:07:45 > 0:07:49Sarah Pepys will examine who they are and how much they understand
0:07:49 > 0:07:54about being an adoptive parent.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56- Religion?- I was born into a Muslim household
0:07:56 > 0:07:59and I am a Muslim.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02I was Christian, so I'm a Christian.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07- So both your parents were Pakistani? - Pakistani, Kashmiri, yep.
0:08:07 > 0:08:13I grew up in a family with a brother and sister, and they're both married.
0:08:13 > 0:08:20My dad died in '98 when he went for the first time in 30 years back to Pakistan with Mum.
0:08:20 > 0:08:25'We have to start from the understanding that adoption is a very difficult thing,
0:08:25 > 0:08:28'and social workers are often accused of being negative about it,
0:08:28 > 0:08:30'"You always say how difficult it will be".'
0:08:30 > 0:08:35Well, it is for some people, and it is for children as well.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39So the whole process is about helping people know themselves,
0:08:39 > 0:08:43and we all go through life managing as well as we can
0:08:43 > 0:08:45and we cover up those bits
0:08:45 > 0:08:48that are uncomfortable or make us vulnerable
0:08:48 > 0:08:53because we're achievers. And part of what the assessment is about
0:08:53 > 0:08:56is to say, "Let's look at the cracks".
0:08:56 > 0:09:01Because it's likely that those cracks are going to show themselves when a child's come.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04How would you envisage it being
0:09:04 > 0:09:08when you bring a little girl home from Pakistan?
0:09:08 > 0:09:11I'd do exactly the same as I did with Zach,
0:09:11 > 0:09:14is take the baby with me wherever I went
0:09:14 > 0:09:17and Zach would probably, by that time, be in a nursery...
0:09:17 > 0:09:22But if you think that from the outset, Zach knew your smell,
0:09:22 > 0:09:26he knew your voice, he quickly learnt how you held him,
0:09:26 > 0:09:33and any baby you pick up from Pakistan will have been held by loads of other people,
0:09:33 > 0:09:36so there's no certainty inside them about what feels safe.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38In fact nothing feels very safe.
0:09:38 > 0:09:43- Yes, of course.- I mean, even tiny babies know that I'll cry and...
0:09:43 > 0:09:45'We're not playing games that this is happy ever after'
0:09:45 > 0:09:50because it isn't always. I mean, life isn't like that, so let's be real
0:09:50 > 0:09:54about what people are going to need to make it as good as possible.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58Saira and Steve will now undergo
0:09:58 > 0:10:01an intensive series of social work home visits,
0:10:01 > 0:10:04each lasting up to three hours.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09- There's an issue of them running the agenda.- Yes.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11You're going to have your agenda
0:10:11 > 0:10:16but they'll also have their agenda, of course, that they want to get through this process that we've got.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20And I'd think it might be useful for you to have some of those...
0:10:20 > 0:10:25- unexpected questions that sort of get underneath what they're expecting.- Yeah.
0:10:25 > 0:10:32'Over the next six months, Hannah Penny will examine their lives, relationship and backgrounds.'
0:10:32 > 0:10:38..particularly, maybe, with Steve cos he's the quieter person, is he, from what you've written?
0:10:38 > 0:10:42Well, if he's quieter, it's because Saira's quite extrovert.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45OK, in an individual session, he won't be quiet.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49At the end of the home study,
0:10:49 > 0:10:52Hannah will present a report to the PACT director
0:10:52 > 0:10:55on their suitability to become adoptive parents.
0:10:57 > 0:11:02The assessment will demand and then test their ability
0:11:02 > 0:11:05to be completely open and honest.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10In their first sessions,
0:11:10 > 0:11:15Hannah wants to talk to Steve and Saira separately.
0:11:15 > 0:11:20..talk a bit about, you know, your kind of personal history and how you are today as a person.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23Thanks for your family tree, that's great.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26If you could talk me through it a bit, cos that's a good way
0:11:26 > 0:11:30- to start understanding your family and where you come from.- Sure.
0:11:30 > 0:11:36My mum and my dad were both born in the same town in Epping in Essex.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40Yeah, and what about your mum and dad's relationship?
0:11:40 > 0:11:44- They had an arranged marriage, I think you said?- Yeah, they had an arranged marriage
0:11:44 > 0:11:49and interestingly enough - which isn't typical - they weren't related to each other.
0:11:49 > 0:11:54I was born at home in Epping in a very, very pleasant family environment.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56I had a brother and sister.
0:11:56 > 0:12:01'When Mum came to this country, she was dumped in the middle of a place called Long Eaton.'
0:12:01 > 0:12:04Bloody hell, look at it, just a complete shit hole!
0:12:04 > 0:12:06'Dad was always at work'
0:12:06 > 0:12:11and he was working in a factory along with lots of other immigrants that went over at that time.
0:12:11 > 0:12:17My mum was very good at getting us to kind of appreciate classical music.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21She'd always invent lots of different stories to classical music
0:12:21 > 0:12:26and we'd end up playing and being whatever it was, dinosaurs to the Rites of Spring.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28Mum was really dependent on my dad
0:12:28 > 0:12:32because my dad was the one that could speak English and he could drive.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36My dad had a really bad temper and it was uncontrollable
0:12:36 > 0:12:40and we saw things that, you know, we'd come home and we'd be watching Grange Hill
0:12:40 > 0:12:43and the TV would be flung out. He didn't want us to watch it.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46We'd spend a Sunday, for example, we'd go off to picnics,
0:12:46 > 0:12:49a stately home, walk in the forest,
0:12:49 > 0:12:52zoos, into London to see the sights.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55I think, like any relationship, they bickered a lot.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57I don't remember my parents arguing.
0:12:57 > 0:13:03Frankly, I'd probably been overly mollycoddled.
0:13:03 > 0:13:09- He's so calm, he's so measured. - Just sort of solid. And Saira's more energetic.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13- In control of his emotions.- Yeah.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16And I guess that's what I found really attractive about him.
0:13:16 > 0:13:22- I don't get angry, um...- You do sports?- Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do.
0:13:22 > 0:13:26You said that you've had no previous relationships before Steve.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28Nothing at all, or just very brief relationships?
0:13:28 > 0:13:32I haven't had anything serious and so my mum
0:13:32 > 0:13:35hasn't met anybody else apart from Steve
0:13:35 > 0:13:39and I've never taken any other man home and said, "Mum, this is my boyfriend."
0:13:39 > 0:13:41- Yeah.- But that's not to say...
0:13:41 > 0:13:49that's not to say that I haven't spent time with other people than Steve.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53- Would you like me to take you to cricket?- Yeah.- It's good fun!
0:13:53 > 0:13:57We raised money for the tsunami and that was Pakistan and England,
0:13:57 > 0:14:00- and I made curry pasties. - I think I came once, too.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03'Steve's parents, Mac and Margaret,
0:14:03 > 0:14:07'and Saira's mum, Hanifa, all support their plan to adopt.'
0:14:07 > 0:14:10- Will you baby-sit for me?- Yeah.
0:14:10 > 0:14:11SHE LAUGHS
0:14:13 > 0:14:17But they're naturally anxious about what will happen in Pakistan.
0:14:17 > 0:14:23If you do get a chance to adopt a child, does that mean they choose the child for you?
0:14:23 > 0:14:27- This is the thing, because babies come in every day.- Every day?
0:14:27 > 0:14:31- Every single day.- What, as newborn babies? - As newborn babies or whatever.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33We'll have no idea who the mother is.
0:14:33 > 0:14:35We'll have no idea.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38These babies are, they come to this orphanage
0:14:38 > 0:14:42and they are just dropped there and that's it.
0:14:42 > 0:14:46I think part of the emotional point would be all the babies that we're leaving.
0:14:46 > 0:14:48- Yeah. - You know, that could be the...
0:14:48 > 0:14:51- That's very true. - You know, I don't think it's...
0:14:51 > 0:14:55- It will be emotional whatever happens.- That's going to be tough.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Really emotional, you'll have to be quite strong.
0:14:58 > 0:15:03One of the first questions a lot of people ask is, "Are you going to be able to chose the baby?"
0:15:03 > 0:15:06And that's, that's something we, we're, we're sort of thinking,
0:15:06 > 0:15:09"Well, I don't, I don't, I don't know how that bit works".
0:15:09 > 0:15:15I really don't know, and I don't whether it's important but, at the moment, sitting here in England,
0:15:15 > 0:15:19thinking about a baby and trying to connect the two, it's a bit weird.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22And so you are thinking, "Well I'd like to be able to choose",
0:15:22 > 0:15:27but then like Steve says, what if you haven't got the choice
0:15:27 > 0:15:30and they say, "Your baby's come in, come and take it"?
0:15:39 > 0:15:42With so many unanswered questions about Karachi,
0:15:42 > 0:15:49Saira has managed to contact a couple who have already been through the experience.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53Sobia and Amjad live close by and have two children,
0:15:53 > 0:15:55both from the Edhi Orphanage.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59What you do, you arrive in Pakistan, you ring Edhi
0:15:59 > 0:16:03and you say to them, "Whenever the next girl comes in, call me."
0:16:03 > 0:16:05We got there on the 23rd in the morning,
0:16:05 > 0:16:08we rang at ten o'clock, they said, "Nobody's come in".
0:16:08 > 0:16:12By six o'clock, a little girl had come in, Sabrina, which we named.
0:16:12 > 0:16:13We went to see her and...
0:16:13 > 0:16:15At 6:30pm.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17At 8:30pm. A few people had seen her before us,
0:16:17 > 0:16:21who were local or something, but didn't take her - she was only three pounds
0:16:21 > 0:16:26and was quite dark. Those people didn't want a dark, skinny little child.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29- And she had a funny-looking head. - Egg-shaped head.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33Yeah, she was quite dehydrated and... If you want me to show you...
0:16:33 > 0:16:36Yeah, she was quite skinny. And so, we just got there
0:16:36 > 0:16:40and we were walking up the steps and when you walk up those steps
0:16:40 > 0:16:44it's probably the most scariest, emotional thing, Amjad was crying,
0:16:44 > 0:16:47I was crying, his mother was crying, it was very emotional.
0:16:47 > 0:16:48I was shaking.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51I thought I was going to faint going up the steps.
0:16:51 > 0:16:53Um, I'll never forget it, and, um...
0:16:53 > 0:16:55Aw, gosh.
0:16:55 > 0:16:56Aww.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58And then we went up, um, they took the child,
0:16:58 > 0:17:02you could hear all these kids making noises and babies crying,
0:17:02 > 0:17:05and this, um, kind of nanny-type lady brought the baby out
0:17:05 > 0:17:08and they sort of said, "Oh, she's very dark..."
0:17:08 > 0:17:11I thought, "They're not selling her well".
0:17:11 > 0:17:14"Would you want to still take her?" Amjad said, "Yep".
0:17:14 > 0:17:17I had on my mind already that I'm going to get this child
0:17:17 > 0:17:22no matter what condition she is. So I decided when I saw her,
0:17:22 > 0:17:25I said, "No, this is my child, this is my baby now,
0:17:25 > 0:17:29"no matter what condition she is, I'm her father".
0:17:29 > 0:17:32I don't think Amjad really saw her, but he just went, "Yep",
0:17:32 > 0:17:35and, and then I held her in the taxi on the way home
0:17:35 > 0:17:37and I just cried all the way.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39Did, did...can I...?
0:17:39 > 0:17:42You know when you saw her,
0:17:42 > 0:17:45did you love her immediately?
0:17:45 > 0:17:49I can't say that loves comes just straight away. I can't say that.
0:17:49 > 0:17:54I don't think it did. Emotion comes, you know, it kind of takes over.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58And I was shaking, I was scared that I might drop her on the way down the stairs.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01I was shaking. Then we just signed a form,
0:18:01 > 0:18:02you give the 25 rupees admin fee,
0:18:02 > 0:18:04and then we had a taxi
0:18:04 > 0:18:06and then we took her back in a taxi and...
0:18:06 > 0:18:10- It's the best thing we've ever done. Without a doubt, both of them.- Yeah.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13And her in particular I have to say, her in particular.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21I was just thankful to Allah that he fulfilled my all, you know...
0:18:21 > 0:18:23because we wanted to have a...
0:18:23 > 0:18:27a family, with a child.
0:18:27 > 0:18:32So he gave us that, you know, that special girl, Sabrina.
0:18:32 > 0:18:36So, I'm always thankful to Allah, and that's it.
0:18:36 > 0:18:42Sobia and Amjad knew nothing about Sabrina's background when they collected her.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44Back in the UK, eight months later,
0:18:44 > 0:18:49they discovered she has the genetic blood disorder, thalassemia.
0:18:49 > 0:18:56She will have to have a blood transfusion every three weeks for the rest of her life.
0:18:56 > 0:19:00Can you also tell me about when you first found out that she had... what was it called?
0:19:00 > 0:19:05- Thalassemia. - Thalassemia. Because I don't know... you see, that for me,
0:19:05 > 0:19:08I don't know how I'd feel if I found...
0:19:08 > 0:19:11Do you see what I mean? That is a concern of mine.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15Yeah, there are...you know, Hepatitis C, AIDS, thalassemia
0:19:15 > 0:19:19and other illnesses, which I said, I've got a whole list of them... They are prominent.
0:19:19 > 0:19:24And obviously, children who are left are coming from deprived areas,
0:19:24 > 0:19:26malnutrition, the mother's had a hard time.
0:19:26 > 0:19:31Cos I, deep down, feel nobody wants to give up their child, that's what I feel.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34So, you know, these mothers are going through a lot,
0:19:34 > 0:19:38they have problems physically, mentally and genetically.
0:19:41 > 0:19:48Sobia and Amjad went on to adopt their son Sharik two years later, also from Edhi.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52But Sabrina's illness means the family now live
0:19:52 > 0:19:54with the legacy of thalassemia.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58See you later, bye-bye.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00If Saira and Steve are given a baby,
0:20:00 > 0:20:05they too will have no idea of its medical history.
0:20:05 > 0:20:10It's a dilemma they'd never dreamt they'd have to face.
0:20:10 > 0:20:13I actually got the impression that when we went to Pakistan
0:20:13 > 0:20:16you'd have about 50 babies, and you'd go round and you'd think, "I want that one".
0:20:16 > 0:20:20When a baby comes in, they phone you and they say,
0:20:20 > 0:20:24"There's a baby coming in, would you like to come and get it?" And they just went along.
0:20:24 > 0:20:28What if we went to see the baby and we think, "Oh, we didn't..."
0:20:28 > 0:20:31I don't think you can judge how you're going to... I don't think...
0:20:31 > 0:20:36- No, that's not the key thing to focus on, is it?- No, no, I don't think you can anticipate that.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39When she said that there's a lot of thalassemia
0:20:39 > 0:20:44and there's lots of babies born with AIDS, I was a bit shocked when she said AIDS, because I...
0:20:44 > 0:20:48For some reason, you never hear the Pakistani community talk about AIDS or anything,
0:20:48 > 0:20:50so you don't think it's a problem.
0:20:50 > 0:20:55But I do agree with you. I think we have to be pragmatic.
0:21:00 > 0:21:05The problems of adopting from Pakistan are becoming a major worry.
0:21:05 > 0:21:07- TV PLAYS - 'Good evening from Islamabad.'
0:21:07 > 0:21:10And now a country already in political turmoil
0:21:10 > 0:21:15suffers its worst natural catastrophe of modern times.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19The floods have left 20 million homeless,
0:21:19 > 0:21:23making the country even more unstable.
0:21:23 > 0:21:28- Oh, God. - They're desperate, aren't they?
0:21:34 > 0:21:37Despite the chaos in Pakistan,
0:21:37 > 0:21:42Saira is still determined to adopt a baby from Edhi.
0:21:42 > 0:21:46But for someone usually in control of her life, this is a step into the unknown.
0:21:51 > 0:21:55She's come to talk things through with her brother Tazz,
0:21:55 > 0:21:59and Sadhi, his Pakistani-born wife.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01But Tazz, what happens if they come back
0:22:01 > 0:22:05and they say the baby's got thalassemia or HIV or AIDS?
0:22:05 > 0:22:09It's not fair on Zach that we're going to have this baby and the attention will be
0:22:09 > 0:22:10focussed on its health issues.
0:22:10 > 0:22:16If it's got a genetic issue that means it's going to affect our life, we can't take that on board.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19But that sounds awful. That's like designer babies, because it's like,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22if we have a child and he's got a disability,
0:22:22 > 0:22:26we can't say to the hospital, "By the way, you can keep him and we'll try again."
0:22:26 > 0:22:30That's what it's like. It's going to be awful.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32Adopting a baby in Pakistan
0:22:32 > 0:22:35means being in Karachi for up to three months.
0:22:35 > 0:22:41Whether to take Zach or leave him in the UK is now a real concern.
0:22:41 > 0:22:42We'll just...
0:22:42 > 0:22:48Steve's not getting worried about Karachi, but it's what we do with Zach.
0:22:48 > 0:22:50Um, are you... Oh, right, OK.
0:22:50 > 0:22:56So, you see, no matter what happens, we have to leave him for quite a while. What would you do?
0:22:56 > 0:22:58Do you think you'd be scared, Sadhi?
0:22:58 > 0:23:00Would you go with your children now?
0:23:00 > 0:23:05It is difficult and it's different now, the situation changes.
0:23:05 > 0:23:07You've got to, haven't you, really?
0:23:07 > 0:23:10That's what I think, I've got to, I'm adopting a kid.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14You know, it's not like we're buying a house.
0:23:14 > 0:23:19We're adopting a child and there's... I don't think, in Pakistan, there'll ever be a right time to go.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22We know Steve, people don't know Steve, they see him as a westerner
0:23:22 > 0:23:24adopting a Muslim child.
0:23:24 > 0:23:29You can... You know, there is, there's, there's fanatics out there,
0:23:29 > 0:23:31there's nutters out there.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34I'm worried about that because it does play on your mind a bit.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36- It does.- Does play on your mind.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42As well as their worries about safety in Pakistan,
0:23:42 > 0:23:46one of the most dangerous countries in the world,
0:23:46 > 0:23:50Saira has to make sure they're registered with the orphanage in Karachi.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00She had thought her visit there four years ago would help make things go smoothly.
0:24:00 > 0:24:04But she's having real problems getting hold of the owner,
0:24:04 > 0:24:05Belquis Edhi.
0:24:09 > 0:24:14I'm trying to phone the orphanage, trying to speak to Belquis, who runs it.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19I've got this lady called Almas, who keeps saying,
0:24:19 > 0:24:24"Oh, um, Saira from England, why are you phoning?"
0:24:24 > 0:24:28I'm like, "I'm phoning because I want to adopt and you've got my file."
0:24:28 > 0:24:29It's so frustrating,
0:24:29 > 0:24:35so I've got to make sure that I don't piss this woman off.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39I've decided that's it, I'm not going to now contact them until I go to Pakistan.
0:24:41 > 0:24:45With no formal process to follow, Saira knows a lot depends on
0:24:45 > 0:24:48making a good impression with Belquis.
0:24:48 > 0:24:54She alone decides who adopts from Edhi and which baby they're given.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57Are you going to play with Sabrina, Zach?
0:24:57 > 0:25:01Saira and Steve need someone to put their case at the orphanage.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04- He's got something for Zach. - Oh, look!
0:25:04 > 0:25:07Amjad's going to Karachi on a family visit,
0:25:07 > 0:25:11and knowing they need help, has agreed to meet Belquis there.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14The other thing I was going to say was, obviously, you're going to Pakistan.
0:25:14 > 0:25:19And what we want to talk to you about is, is there anything that we can do
0:25:19 > 0:25:23to kind of develop a relationship with Belquis, in terms of we have no...
0:25:23 > 0:25:26we don't know what to expect.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30Because it's not face to face, even if they did have email, Saira,
0:25:30 > 0:25:33there's no point, you need to speak to them, you know what it's like.
0:25:33 > 0:25:36I know Pakistan is totally about being...
0:25:36 > 0:25:39Amjad and Sobia have been through the procedure at Edhi twice,
0:25:39 > 0:25:43and they know handling Belquis can be tricky.
0:25:48 > 0:25:51Two weeks later, Amjad returns from Karachi.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56It's not all good news.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59He struggled to convince Belquis to accept Saira and Steve
0:25:59 > 0:26:04onto her waiting list, because of their mixed marriage.
0:26:04 > 0:26:09The thing that Belquis seems to have been very concerned about,
0:26:09 > 0:26:11was the fact that Steve was not a Muslim.
0:26:13 > 0:26:17And that was the point that Amjad, sort of said to Belquis,
0:26:17 > 0:26:22"Look, Belquis, I've met Steve, he's better than a Muslim".
0:26:24 > 0:26:29When they first got together, religion is something the couple never really dealt with.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32When I met Steve, I can honestly tell you,
0:26:32 > 0:26:35I don't think I ever, ever discussed being a Muslim with him.
0:26:35 > 0:26:43He just saw me as Saira, one of the lads, cheeky, fun, let's go and party.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45And that's what he fell in love with.
0:26:49 > 0:26:54Saira's faith only became an issue when they decided to get married.
0:26:56 > 0:27:00And it was... I really... it came up because of my mum.
0:27:00 > 0:27:04One thing, my mum is religious...
0:27:04 > 0:27:07and it means a lot to her.
0:27:07 > 0:27:11So, I said to Steve, "Look, you're going to have to convert to Islam."
0:27:11 > 0:27:15It took a while for it to dawn on me what they were asking me to do,
0:27:15 > 0:27:18because I come from a...you know, come from a background where,
0:27:18 > 0:27:21it's a bit trivial to say, but we don't do religion, really.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26I think I did feel, at the time, compromised.
0:27:26 > 0:27:32In some ways, I guess I felt that I might've lost a part of my identity by going through that.
0:27:33 > 0:27:37You know, it wasn't something that I would have done
0:27:37 > 0:27:42if I had been given a really clear choice in the matter.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18He did it and it made my mum feel really happy.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21But then after, like a year afterwards,
0:28:21 > 0:28:24we did sit my mum down and say, "Mum, just so that you know,
0:28:24 > 0:28:28"Steve said he was a Muslim just to marry me.
0:28:28 > 0:28:32"I'm really sorry that's going to break your heart, but we had to do it.
0:28:32 > 0:28:36"You ain't going to see Steve praying five times a day and doing all of those things."
0:28:39 > 0:28:45In our culture, there's this thing about, you do one thing in private
0:28:45 > 0:28:48and you do another thing for the public.
0:28:51 > 0:28:52And d'you know what?
0:28:52 > 0:28:57I've had to lie for my existence, with my parents, for most of it,
0:28:57 > 0:29:00definitely up until my dad died.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04Everything I did was a lie.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07"Where did you go?" "To a friend's house." I'd been to a party.
0:29:07 > 0:29:09"What were you wearing?" "I wore trousers."
0:29:09 > 0:29:12Took the trousers off and got a short skirt on.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15"How much did that cost?" "Oh, it was only £5."
0:29:15 > 0:29:18£100... You know, to protect them.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25But I just wanted, like, with my mum, to say,
0:29:25 > 0:29:31"Mum, I'm going to a party and I'm wearing this and I'll be back later."
0:29:31 > 0:29:35But I couldn't have that conversation with her, because it just didn't...
0:29:35 > 0:29:37you just don't.
0:29:38 > 0:29:40Are you going to change?
0:29:40 > 0:29:42Hannah's here, you know Hannah's here, don't you?
0:29:42 > 0:29:45- Hannah's here.- Is she?- Yes. - It's absolutely fine.
0:29:45 > 0:29:49- She's flapping around, she's uh, she's been to a photo shoot.- Oh, OK.
0:29:49 > 0:29:54So, she's dressed in the style that her mother wouldn't approve of.
0:29:54 > 0:29:58Saira and Steve are four months into the home study assessment,
0:29:58 > 0:30:03and so far, they've found opening their lives up to Hannah, therapeutic.
0:30:03 > 0:30:05The home study seems to be going well.
0:30:05 > 0:30:09Thanks for your presence, we really appreciated it.
0:30:09 > 0:30:12'Throughout this process, I'm talking about things that I wouldn't,'
0:30:12 > 0:30:14just wouldn't talk about them.
0:30:14 > 0:30:16About my dad, about my mum, about my relationship
0:30:16 > 0:30:19with my brothers and sisters, what does it mean to me?
0:30:19 > 0:30:23And she's laughing cos she... It happens every bloody day.
0:30:23 > 0:30:27'You know, and I actually look forward to Hannah sitting there,
0:30:27 > 0:30:31'every other week saying, "Today we're talking about relationships."
0:30:31 > 0:30:33'"Tell me about your relationship with Steve."'
0:30:33 > 0:30:35Women would understand.
0:30:35 > 0:30:39I have to dig deep and think, you know, yeah, actually,
0:30:39 > 0:30:42regardless of the fact that I bicker and point to him
0:30:42 > 0:30:44and shout and scream, I love him so much.
0:30:47 > 0:30:52'And to be in touch with that and remember that is a really lovely feeling.'
0:30:52 > 0:30:56- All right, Hannah.- OK, take care. - Thank you bye, bye-bye.
0:30:56 > 0:31:01But as part of the process, Hannah has private meetings with referees,
0:31:01 > 0:31:03the couple's close friends and family.
0:31:03 > 0:31:08One of Saira's referees has told her some new information about Saira's past relationships.
0:31:08 > 0:31:15Until now, Saira has only felt able to give an edited version of the truth.
0:31:15 > 0:31:20She's never talked about boyfriends because she wants to protect her mum.
0:31:20 > 0:31:24Having agreed to let the cameras follow the whole adoption process,
0:31:24 > 0:31:27Saira's been caught between wanting to tell Hannah everything,
0:31:27 > 0:31:29and feeling unable to do so
0:31:29 > 0:31:32because of the distress talking publicly could cause her family.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35..Your relationship history, I wanted to talk about that more.
0:31:35 > 0:31:39And obviously, because, you know, that's information that's just about you,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42that's why I've asked Steve to sort of go away, if you like.
0:31:42 > 0:31:46- OK.- So that we can revisit the session, almost.- OK.
0:31:46 > 0:31:51So, um, I think what you said is that you hadn't had any significant partners.
0:31:51 > 0:31:57OK, I've only had really, like, two proper relationships before Steve.
0:31:57 > 0:32:01- Yeah.- One was a boy, who was my very first boyfriend when I was 18
0:32:01 > 0:32:06and we split up when I left university at 21.
0:32:06 > 0:32:08OK and what about Maurizio?
0:32:08 > 0:32:11So, Maurizio, um, I'm just trying to think.
0:32:11 > 0:32:17- I lived with him in Brighton for, I would say for probably two years. - Yeah, OK.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21I am worried because we may need to look at seeking a reference from Maurizio
0:32:21 > 0:32:24- because you did live with him. - I've got his details.
0:32:24 > 0:32:29But I never introduced any of these boys to my mum because
0:32:29 > 0:32:31it's just, culturally, I could never do that.
0:32:31 > 0:32:34I want to protect her. I don't want to say,
0:32:34 > 0:32:38"I slept with Maurizio, but we're not getting married." That would destroy her.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41I can understand where you're coming from with your mum,
0:32:41 > 0:32:46but I'm slightly concerned that that's impacted on what you've told me in the assessment.
0:32:46 > 0:32:48I don't know, I just wonder what you think about that?
0:32:48 > 0:32:52We have been honest about everything and that's something that I perhaps should've...
0:32:52 > 0:32:55I didn't think it was important so I didn't raise it.
0:32:57 > 0:33:01Saira has withheld information to protect her mother and her family.
0:33:01 > 0:33:04That omission, the presence of the TV cameras,
0:33:04 > 0:33:11and cultural differences, have to be weighed up by PACT director, Satwinder Sandhu.
0:33:11 > 0:33:18I spoke to Saira on her own about her individual profile and the gaps that I felt I had.
0:33:18 > 0:33:25And it actually transpires that she has had two significant relationships,
0:33:25 > 0:33:27although she doesn't consider them significant.
0:33:27 > 0:33:33One of them was a university boyfriend and the second one
0:33:33 > 0:33:40was a more significant partner and they did live together for two to three years.
0:33:40 > 0:33:45I explained to Saira that I was concerned that she hadn't considered it necessary
0:33:45 > 0:33:48to mention that partner, particularly on the basis
0:33:48 > 0:33:51that they did live together and she'd been asked.
0:33:51 > 0:33:52- For three years?- Yeah.
0:33:52 > 0:33:56'This assessment process is about minimising the risk to a child.
0:33:56 > 0:34:01'So if an applicant withheld any sort of information in the process,
0:34:01 > 0:34:04'we have to take it seriously.'
0:34:04 > 0:34:10And that very recommendation about approaching partners for independent references
0:34:10 > 0:34:16came out of a case of a child that was killed by an adoptive father.
0:34:16 > 0:34:21And had that local authority at that point gone and verified those references from an ex-partner,
0:34:21 > 0:34:25they would've known this man had psychopathic tendencies,
0:34:25 > 0:34:28because his ex-wife and child would've told them.
0:34:28 > 0:34:33- Previous relationships are discussed at initial interview stage.- Yes.
0:34:33 > 0:34:37- So there's been the initial interview.- Yeah. There's been the...
0:34:37 > 0:34:39- Application form?- Yeah.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42- Her chronology?- Yeah.
0:34:42 > 0:34:46- Cos that again clearly asks for significant relationships.- Yeah.
0:34:46 > 0:34:49Has she done the chronology? Have you seen that? That's not on there.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52You know, it's very hard to sort of assess, you know,
0:34:52 > 0:34:56what the exact reason was, but part of it was to do with the fact that
0:34:56 > 0:35:00her mum doesn't know these partners, these previous partners as partners.
0:35:00 > 0:35:05She didn't really feel able to discuss it at that.
0:35:05 > 0:35:07We do say, right from the word go,
0:35:07 > 0:35:13from our initial information, that the whole process is based on openness.
0:35:13 > 0:35:17And we'll be open and transparent with you and we expect the same in reverse.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19'I think we're all grown up enough and sensible enough
0:35:19 > 0:35:22'to understand that there's always going to be a tier
0:35:22 > 0:35:26'that we're never going to get. And whatever you do, it will always be a snapshot'
0:35:26 > 0:35:29of a moment in time or of the present.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32It's the future we're trying to almost predict.
0:35:32 > 0:35:36What's going to happen when this child joins your family and brings these issues?
0:35:36 > 0:35:38I suppose there's two issues.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42- One, I completely understand the cultural context.- Yeah.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45And the relationship issue between any mother and daughter.
0:35:45 > 0:35:47That still doesn't take away from the fact
0:35:47 > 0:35:49that it raises all these questions for me,
0:35:49 > 0:35:56about how she feels she's perceived by friends, family, whoever it might be.
0:35:56 > 0:35:59- So, in three years' time, you know, she's struggling.- Yeah.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02- She's got two children under the age of five.- Yeah.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05- Things aren't going according to plan.- Yeah.
0:36:05 > 0:36:09- You know, what does she do? Is she going to struggle on and keep it a sort of secret?- Yeah.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13- Or does she come to somebody and ask for support?- Yeah.
0:36:13 > 0:36:17Again, adopting from overseas, particularly in Pakistan, is a completely unknown quantity.
0:36:17 > 0:36:22They don't know the background of the child they're going to be taking, so anything can happen.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28Well, I think we need Harriet to do a second opinion for us, really.
0:36:28 > 0:36:33- And if anyone can thrash it out, she can.- Yeah, yeah.
0:36:38 > 0:36:40- Harriet.- Hello, Steve.
0:36:40 > 0:36:44- I'm Steve, how you doing? Welcome in.- I'm Harriet. - Come on through.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47PACT now asks Saira's ex for a reference
0:36:47 > 0:36:51and senior social worker Harriet prepares a further report.
0:36:51 > 0:36:57We'll get you a cup of tea, or coffee or whatever you like. What would you like?
0:36:57 > 0:36:59- Black tea would be really nice. - Black tea, OK.
0:36:59 > 0:37:05Hello, sorry I'm late. It's one of those days. Hello, Harriet. Lovely to meet you.
0:37:06 > 0:37:09Well, let's start at the beginning, really, which is...
0:37:11 > 0:37:15What do you think I'm going to ask you about?
0:37:15 > 0:37:21I think probably one of the first questions you might want just reassuring is why we're adopting?
0:37:21 > 0:37:25- Why do we think we're suitable? - Yeah, why do we think we're suitable?
0:37:25 > 0:37:29You know, is there anything that we're withholding that you,
0:37:29 > 0:37:32you know, that you, you think you should know about?
0:37:32 > 0:37:36But, I mean, I think we've said to Hannah that there absolutely is not, so...
0:37:36 > 0:37:41There's some of those questions I think will come up.
0:37:41 > 0:37:46I suppose, for me, if we jump in at the deep end
0:37:46 > 0:37:49- and I will be challenging, I'm afraid.- OK, that's OK.
0:37:49 > 0:37:53Um, the first thing that comes up for me is,
0:37:53 > 0:37:55is that you withheld significant information.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00I suppose I'm wondering why that was
0:38:00 > 0:38:02and how you came to the decision
0:38:02 > 0:38:07that you were going to be honest in the process.
0:38:07 > 0:38:10- OK, can I answer this one, because it's relating to me?- Yeah.
0:38:10 > 0:38:17The reason that I didn't mention one previous, um, partner was a cultural thing.
0:38:17 > 0:38:20The repercussions of me saying I've had a previous boyfriend,
0:38:20 > 0:38:24and I was not going to marry him, that is huge.
0:38:24 > 0:38:28It's not a big thing in British, white, Western culture.
0:38:28 > 0:38:31In my culture, that is something very significant.
0:38:31 > 0:38:36And my family would be branded as having a daughter that was a slag and a slut and all that.
0:38:36 > 0:38:38So it, it...
0:38:38 > 0:38:40I imagine that the process was explained
0:38:40 > 0:38:43about the need for being honest and open.
0:38:43 > 0:38:45- Totally.- Yes.
0:38:45 > 0:38:48- Totally.- I genuinely think... - But...- Saira, let me explain.
0:38:48 > 0:38:53I genuinely think Saira didn't consciously lie.
0:38:53 > 0:38:56I mean, I've known Saira for ten years
0:38:56 > 0:39:00and I know with our relationship, she's incredibly honest with me.
0:39:00 > 0:39:05But I do know that she withholds information from her mother.
0:39:05 > 0:39:08I've read the report. There are lots of qualities, lots of strength,
0:39:08 > 0:39:12but the reason for us going on at length
0:39:12 > 0:39:18is that the breakdown of adoptions is quite significant.
0:39:18 > 0:39:22And what we want to do is make sure that you're successful at this,
0:39:22 > 0:39:24that you're as well prepared as you can be.
0:39:24 > 0:39:26- Yeah.- We all make mistakes.
0:39:26 > 0:39:30But I think there is an issue that is of concern,
0:39:30 > 0:39:34which is about being open and honest about the adoption process.
0:39:34 > 0:39:37And if you've understood that, I'm pleased.
0:39:38 > 0:39:40Fucking hell!
0:39:40 > 0:39:42Well...
0:39:42 > 0:39:45Steven, do you know what really annoyed me?
0:39:45 > 0:39:49It fucking annoyed me that that one thing...
0:39:49 > 0:39:51they've just latched onto it,
0:39:51 > 0:39:54I don't know whether they're doing it to catch me out.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56They're not. That's part of the process.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59All right, but the thing is, right, it's about me
0:39:59 > 0:40:05living with Maurizio in a rented house for a year.
0:40:05 > 0:40:09- Yeah.- Yeah? And then, OK, I'm really sorry, I didn't tell you,
0:40:09 > 0:40:12these are the reasons why, this is whatever.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16- He's even sent them a reference. Why can't they put that to bed?- Mm.
0:40:16 > 0:40:22- I'm going to tell my mum about Maurizio.- I think you should.
0:40:22 > 0:40:25Yeah, I am going to tell her, because it's going to be raised at panel.
0:40:25 > 0:40:27I said to her, "What do you want?
0:40:27 > 0:40:31- "Me to cut my heart open and say what..."- OK, calm down now.
0:40:31 > 0:40:34- How can I prove to you...? - Before you tell your mum...
0:40:34 > 0:40:37I'm not going to calm down. This is really important to me.
0:40:37 > 0:40:38It's not like you.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41"Steve's really measured, Steve's really this, really that...
0:40:41 > 0:40:44- I've got to be!- You know why? Cos he's had a fucking great life...
0:40:44 > 0:40:48- Hey, hey, hey, Saira. - No, listen.
0:40:48 > 0:40:51No, but that's what annoys me, Steven. It's like good cop, bad cop
0:40:51 > 0:40:53and I feel like the bad cop.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55Do you know why? Because I am expressive,
0:40:55 > 0:40:59- I am loud - but that's my culture, that's how I am. - I'm making a cup of tea, OK?
0:41:02 > 0:41:03Listen, I've got to tell you.
0:41:03 > 0:41:07You know one of the questions she was asking me was...
0:41:07 > 0:41:11Do you remember my friend, Maurizio? The Italian guy?
0:41:11 > 0:41:14Who came to my wedding, who stayed with us, you really liked him.
0:41:14 > 0:41:19Well, in London, I lived with him because we shared the rent.
0:41:19 > 0:41:21TRANSLATION:
0:41:53 > 0:41:55That is true.
0:42:16 > 0:42:17No, this no lying.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37You can't protect them forever, so it's just, you know...
0:42:37 > 0:42:39So that's all it was, that's why... Mum's fine.
0:42:45 > 0:42:49PACT now have all the information they need to compile the report.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54The final decision whether to approve Saira and Steve
0:42:54 > 0:42:57as adoptive parents will only be made
0:42:57 > 0:43:01when they appear before an independent panel.
0:43:01 > 0:43:03Yogurt, check. Well done, Daddy.
0:43:04 > 0:43:11But in the meantime, the situation in Pakistan continues to intensify.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13"An explosion has all but destroyed a police compound
0:43:13 > 0:43:16"in a high security zone in the Pakistani port city of Karachi,
0:43:16 > 0:43:19"the base for officers investigating militant attacks,
0:43:19 > 0:43:21"and at least 20 people are dead."
0:43:21 > 0:43:24- SIRENS - "Rescue workers..."
0:43:24 > 0:43:27- That's a Edhi ambulance there. - Yeah, I know.
0:43:32 > 0:43:34Oh, my God.
0:43:34 > 0:43:36I mean, there's stuff going on, you know,
0:43:36 > 0:43:39we've just got to keep an eye on it, it's happening all the time.
0:43:39 > 0:43:42It seems to be happening more in Islamabad now, as well.
0:43:45 > 0:43:49Having looked at that report, let's say you had to go next week, would you still go?
0:43:49 > 0:43:52- I would go. - Yeah, that's the thing, I would go.
0:43:52 > 0:43:56It does scare me a little bit now that I'm a mum, because I think about Zach.
0:43:56 > 0:43:58Mm. Like you say, we just have to think,
0:43:58 > 0:44:03we have to be clear, to keep a close eye on what's happening out there
0:44:03 > 0:44:06and at the moment, my mind is firmly made up
0:44:06 > 0:44:09that Zach is not entering the country.
0:44:09 > 0:44:11We've just got to keep an eye on it.
0:44:11 > 0:44:13I think we have got to have some options.
0:44:13 > 0:44:18I think whatever happens, one option that is not available
0:44:18 > 0:44:21is we ain't adopting from anywhere but Pakistan.
0:44:22 > 0:44:25Saira knows if they do get approved,
0:44:25 > 0:44:28it makes sense to leave Zach behind in Oxford with Steve.
0:44:30 > 0:44:33She has no idea how long that might be for.
0:44:33 > 0:44:37You go to pick up the child, you get the abandonment certificate.
0:44:37 > 0:44:39She'll need as much help as she can get
0:44:39 > 0:44:41with the Pakistan side of the process.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43Keep the original, make sure you have lots of copies.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45That goes out everywhere, keep that.
0:44:45 > 0:44:48Then contact a lawyer and we'll give you the lawyer's name.
0:44:48 > 0:44:53But Sobia's experience of being given a seriously ill baby has been playing on her mind.
0:44:53 > 0:44:59Can I ask you a really personal question?
0:44:59 > 0:45:01If you knew that a funny shaped head
0:45:01 > 0:45:05could be a sign of thalassemia, and you saw a baby with a funny shaped...
0:45:05 > 0:45:09- what would you have said, do you think?- I don't know.
0:45:12 > 0:45:14You see, because this is what I think,
0:45:14 > 0:45:17if I saw a sign and I can make those sort of judgments...
0:45:17 > 0:45:21- We all do. - Yeah, if I can make those judgements I may have to say to Belquis,
0:45:21 > 0:45:25"I'm really sorry, but because of the shape of the baby's head,
0:45:25 > 0:45:29"there may be some issues there, so could I have another look at one?"
0:45:29 > 0:45:32Do you have any idea how she would react to me on that?
0:45:32 > 0:45:34I think you've got to play it...
0:45:34 > 0:45:36Just be careful what you say and how you say it.
0:45:36 > 0:45:38How do you say that without...?
0:45:38 > 0:45:41You could possibly say, "Is there another baby you could show me?"
0:45:41 > 0:45:46- She's going to say, "Why?" - Well, I don't know, we haven't...
0:45:46 > 0:45:49We saw two and we brought two home.
0:45:49 > 0:45:52- Yeah, I mean you can't talk for me... - I can't talk for you.
0:45:52 > 0:45:53It's so unpredictable.
0:45:57 > 0:45:58Saira is now feeling the pressure
0:45:58 > 0:46:02of going to Karachi to get a baby on her own.
0:46:02 > 0:46:05- So, you know when I went to see Sobia?- Mm-hm.
0:46:05 > 0:46:08There's quite a lot for me to do when I get over there.
0:46:08 > 0:46:11Well, yeah, let's not get started on it.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14We've got to start on it. I'm not being silly,
0:46:14 > 0:46:17but we've been going through this process for quite a long time.
0:46:17 > 0:46:20We don't really talk about it that much.
0:46:20 > 0:46:22You're always so busy with work.
0:46:22 > 0:46:26I just feel like I understand what I've got to go through
0:46:26 > 0:46:29and you are emotionally detached from that,
0:46:29 > 0:46:34because you haven't sat through those emotional meetings.
0:46:34 > 0:46:38You know, I'm thinking I'm going to be there, in Pakistan, on my own,
0:46:38 > 0:46:39they're going to give me a child.
0:46:39 > 0:46:42I'm thinking, "What is my reaction going to be like?"
0:46:42 > 0:46:45What if the child, you know, doesn't look right?
0:46:45 > 0:46:51How do I say to Belquis, "I don't think the kid looks right"?
0:46:51 > 0:46:55Like, you've sat there with me, with social workers
0:46:55 > 0:46:56and we've been asked 100 questions.
0:46:56 > 0:47:00You sat with me and I feel we've coped with that, that's fine.
0:47:00 > 0:47:05- But this part, I understand... - The most crucial part, I'm not being silly,
0:47:05 > 0:47:07but you've said to me, I've got to go.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10Someone's going to give me this baby and I'm going to make a decision
0:47:10 > 0:47:15about the baby that we have for the rest of my life, you're not going to be there.
0:47:15 > 0:47:19- How does that make you feel? - I don't think it's...
0:47:23 > 0:47:28After eight months of preparation, it's the night before panel.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30They're almost there.
0:47:30 > 0:47:35But there's still no guarantee that Saira and Steve will be approved.
0:47:35 > 0:47:41And what you do is you let me talk about it and you listen and you go, "Mm, yeah."
0:47:41 > 0:47:45But Saira, I've asked, and we've talked about it regularly and constantly, now we...
0:47:45 > 0:47:51Steven, stop saying "regularly"! When have we talked about it regularly and constantly?
0:47:51 > 0:47:57Oh, Saira, it's just like... We are living in different worlds, clearly. Totally different worlds.
0:47:57 > 0:48:00When have you talked about it regularly and constantly?!
0:48:00 > 0:48:03Just about every day, I think, every single day.
0:48:03 > 0:48:08We have talked...? Right, so I'm a nutcase, sitting here?
0:48:08 > 0:48:11We've talked about it every single day for the last six months
0:48:11 > 0:48:14and I'm a nutcase, sitting here saying you don't talk about it?
0:48:14 > 0:48:17Yeah, I think you are a nutcase, to be honest with you.
0:48:17 > 0:48:19I'm going to bed.
0:48:20 > 0:48:22Saira still has hours of work to do tonight
0:48:22 > 0:48:25and there is no-one to care for Zach
0:48:25 > 0:48:30whilst they attend the all-important panel hearing in the morning.
0:48:30 > 0:48:32Did you see Zach before he went to sleep?
0:48:32 > 0:48:35- Yeah. Not before HE went to sleep, no.- Oh.
0:48:36 > 0:48:38I mean, he's...
0:48:38 > 0:48:42Well, there's no way... We can't take Zach there, can we?
0:48:46 > 0:48:50- What time have we got to leave? Did you say eight o'clock?- Yeah.
0:48:50 > 0:48:54We could drop Zach off at half-eight at the nursery on the dot.
0:48:54 > 0:48:56That won't give us enough time, though.
0:49:03 > 0:49:04OK.
0:49:10 > 0:49:11OK.
0:49:11 > 0:49:14All right, have you got to write this article?
0:49:14 > 0:49:16Yeah, I've got to go down and do that then, so...
0:49:16 > 0:49:18- All right.- What time is it?
0:49:18 > 0:49:21- I just said, twenty to midnight. - Yeah, yeah, all right, then.
0:49:21 > 0:49:22OK.
0:49:29 > 0:49:31Saira and Steve will appear
0:49:31 > 0:49:36before a panel of lay people and social workers.
0:49:40 > 0:49:43Thank you. Well, we thought it was a great report,
0:49:43 > 0:49:46we really enjoyed reading it and feel we've got a very good picture
0:49:46 > 0:49:50of Steven and Saira. So you've done lots of hard work, thank you.
0:49:52 > 0:49:56OK, so matters we'd like possibly a bit more discussion about.
0:49:56 > 0:49:59- Kim? - A very successful career lady.
0:49:59 > 0:50:02There may be conflict for her,
0:50:02 > 0:50:07between childcare and pursuing her career.
0:50:07 > 0:50:11And I just wondered whether he's running his own business
0:50:11 > 0:50:13and how much that might impact
0:50:13 > 0:50:17on his willingness to make time for his family.
0:50:17 > 0:50:18Oh, gosh.
0:50:18 > 0:50:21Their little boy is already in nursery seven hours a day,
0:50:21 > 0:50:24every day, and he's only two.
0:50:24 > 0:50:28I think it really seems that we have a consensus
0:50:28 > 0:50:32on the concerns we've all noted, that the little boy is only two
0:50:32 > 0:50:34and he's in nursery full-time.
0:50:34 > 0:50:37Supposing an adoptive child is not...
0:50:37 > 0:50:41that's not appropriate for an adoptive child, how will she cope?
0:50:41 > 0:50:44Which will come first, the career or the child?
0:50:44 > 0:50:47Oh, thank heavens for that.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50I'll just sort that out, do you want to go in and grab Hannah?
0:50:50 > 0:50:51- I just want to say I love you.- Good.
0:51:12 > 0:51:16After an hour of deliberation, the panel take a vote.
0:51:19 > 0:51:23Oh, my God, I'm just going to start crying already.
0:51:23 > 0:51:26Well, you do what you need to do, Saira, if you need to cry.
0:51:28 > 0:51:31The beginning of their journey. Thank you.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34Say good luck to them.
0:51:39 > 0:51:41- Yeah, it was unanimous.- Oh!
0:51:42 > 0:51:46- Congratulations.- Thank you so much. - Good luck.- Thank you so much.
0:51:46 > 0:51:49Now they've been approved to adopt by the UK Social Services,
0:51:49 > 0:51:54Saira will travel to the orphanage in Karachi.
0:51:54 > 0:51:57She will have no idea until she gets to Pakistan
0:51:57 > 0:52:00when, or if, she will come back with a baby.
0:52:03 > 0:52:06People assume the assessment's going to be the tough bit
0:52:06 > 0:52:09and then the waiting and finding the child will be euphoric.
0:52:09 > 0:52:13Each stage can be equally difficult.
0:52:13 > 0:52:17You almost haven't had time for your emotions to catch up
0:52:17 > 0:52:19with the reality of what's happening,
0:52:19 > 0:52:21so it can seem very surreal
0:52:21 > 0:52:25and start to almost feel a bit like a dream.
0:52:25 > 0:52:28Because, actually, even though you know what's coming,
0:52:28 > 0:52:33you haven't quite yet prepared and adjusted emotionally for it.
0:52:34 > 0:52:39And for some people, those emotions and drives will be paralysing.
0:52:39 > 0:52:44And it's not unheard of to have people at that late stage
0:52:44 > 0:52:46just not be able to do it.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49Cos it's all becoming, like, really...
0:52:49 > 0:52:53when we were trying to have a baby and when Zach came along,
0:52:53 > 0:52:56there's a point, you get your three-month check,
0:52:56 > 0:52:59and you get a little bit happier, a bit more optimistic
0:52:59 > 0:53:02and there's little stages through a pregnancy,
0:53:02 > 0:53:04but it's also very visible.
0:53:04 > 0:53:07You've got a bump appearing by about, whatever,
0:53:07 > 0:53:09six or seven months.
0:53:09 > 0:53:12You can feel little kicks happening, you have another scan,
0:53:12 > 0:53:15whereas with this, we're in the final weeks.
0:53:15 > 0:53:17In two weeks' time,
0:53:17 > 0:53:20I could be the proud father of a little baby girl
0:53:20 > 0:53:27but to me, there still feels like a lot that is in the...
0:53:27 > 0:53:28There's a lot of unknowns.
0:53:28 > 0:53:31BABY CRIES
0:53:32 > 0:53:37It's nerve-wracking as well, cos you don't know anything about the baby
0:53:37 > 0:53:39- and you just go. - Have you had any contact?
0:53:39 > 0:53:42No, nothing at all, so I'll just be turning up.
0:53:42 > 0:53:47It just feels a bit weird, buying for a baby that I haven't met
0:53:47 > 0:53:49and I don't know anything about.
0:53:54 > 0:53:57I've bought some baby clothes and they're stunning
0:53:57 > 0:54:01and I thought this might make me feel better but it's making me feel worse,
0:54:01 > 0:54:04because I don't know how big this baby is,
0:54:04 > 0:54:07what this baby's going to look like.
0:54:07 > 0:54:10You know, is she seven pounds? Is she ten pounds?
0:54:10 > 0:54:13Is she three months? Is she two months? I don't know.
0:54:16 > 0:54:19I... You know, if, if I was...
0:54:19 > 0:54:21I remember when I bought Zach's first teddy
0:54:21 > 0:54:28and there was so much warmth and so much connection
0:54:28 > 0:54:30and I thought, "I'm buying this,"
0:54:30 > 0:54:34even though I hadn't seen Zach, obviously he's growing inside you,
0:54:34 > 0:54:38everybody is rooting for you to have that baby safe.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41They want to know, you get cards, people send you cards,
0:54:41 > 0:54:43"Congratulations, you've got pregnant."
0:54:43 > 0:54:46"How's your scan going?" All of those things.
0:54:46 > 0:54:49With adoption, I'm still getting a child at the end of it
0:54:49 > 0:54:52and I know that as soon as that child's brought back,
0:54:52 > 0:54:54my family will come together. Great.
0:54:54 > 0:54:56But I actually need the support right now.
0:55:01 > 0:55:03I haven't been able to talk to Steve about it
0:55:03 > 0:55:05and instead of, you know, perhaps...
0:55:05 > 0:55:08and I'm not blaming Steve for this...
0:55:09 > 0:55:13..because I've been trying to get him to open up a little bit more,
0:55:13 > 0:55:14we've just been arguing.
0:55:14 > 0:55:17I want to attack him, I just want to have a go at him.
0:55:17 > 0:55:20It's like, "Give me some emotion!" Because inside my head,
0:55:20 > 0:55:23there's all these things going on and if I'm feeling it,
0:55:23 > 0:55:25why aren't you feeling it? How can you just go,
0:55:25 > 0:55:28"If that's what you've got to do, it's what you've got to do"?
0:55:28 > 0:55:31He does feel it, but doesn't know how to articulate it.
0:55:31 > 0:55:35You can't just tell me to be instantly emotional about something.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38I tend to talk almost every day about what we're doing
0:55:38 > 0:55:42and sort of say to her, "Are we doing this in the right way?
0:55:42 > 0:55:46"Are we doing the right thing for us as a family?"
0:55:47 > 0:55:50But she's got... It's the old, you know,
0:55:50 > 0:55:53the classic sort of male/female differences
0:55:53 > 0:55:57- about how you talk about stuff. People are different.- Of course.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59I feel like I'm just going out on my own
0:55:59 > 0:56:03and people are just like, "Bring the baby back and you'll be fine."
0:56:03 > 0:56:08OK, I know I'm a tough person and I can handle it,
0:56:08 > 0:56:10but I do feel really scared about that moment.
0:56:10 > 0:56:12And the other thing that I can't get out my head is
0:56:12 > 0:56:16I'll go into the orphanage and they'll give this baby
0:56:16 > 0:56:18and it's not mine until I know that it's OK.
0:56:18 > 0:56:21I've got to go and have pins and needles stuck in it
0:56:21 > 0:56:25and what if there's something wrong with it?
0:56:25 > 0:56:28It might take a week for these results to come back,
0:56:28 > 0:56:31but the orphanage give you the baby
0:56:31 > 0:56:33so what happens if there is something wrong with it
0:56:33 > 0:56:36and I've bought all these little lovely clothes
0:56:36 > 0:56:40and hats and amazing things,
0:56:40 > 0:56:44you know and, and I... You know, what will I do?
0:56:56 > 0:56:58Don't worry.
0:57:02 > 0:57:05- I love you.- I want to go with Mummy.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08- I want to go with Mummy.- I know.
0:57:08 > 0:57:10You go with Daddy.
0:57:10 > 0:57:13Zachy, Mummy's going to go and then you'll come with Daddy another time.
0:57:13 > 0:57:17- Can I have a kiss, please? - No.- Please. I love you.
0:57:17 > 0:57:20- I love you, sweetheart. - I love you too.- Be strong.
0:57:20 > 0:57:23- I love you too.- I love you too.
0:57:23 > 0:57:26- Bye!- Bye!
0:57:28 > 0:57:31Bye, Mama. Bye, Mama.
0:57:35 > 0:57:38- Say goodbye.- Nanny's crying.
0:57:38 > 0:57:41Nanny's crying, that's right. Nanny's crying.
0:57:41 > 0:57:44You'll look after Nanny. Will you look after Nanny?
0:57:44 > 0:57:45- Yes.- Good boy.
0:57:54 > 0:57:55Oh, my God, Steven, quick!
0:57:55 > 0:57:59- Steven?- 'Yeah?'
0:57:59 > 0:58:02Halibi's just come in and apparently there's a little baby girl
0:58:02 > 0:58:05and they want us to come and see her and sort of...
0:58:05 > 0:58:08Oh, I guess... Do you want us to take her away? I don't know.
0:58:08 > 0:58:10Oh, my gosh.
0:58:10 > 0:58:14I think I'll have to take a bit of a... I'll just have to just...
0:58:15 > 0:58:18- Come on.- Oh, no. Hold on, I just feel really weird now.
0:58:18 > 0:58:22You've waited for this moment for so long to happen, I can imagine.
0:58:25 > 0:58:29- Come on, Saira.- I know, but just hold on for two minutes.
0:58:56 > 0:58:59Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:58:59 > 0:59:03E-mail - subtitling@bbc.co.uk