0:00:07 > 0:00:08'My name's Michael Lynch and,
0:00:08 > 0:00:12'after running some of the world's biggest cultural institutions,
0:00:12 > 0:00:16'I think the UK's are among the best.'
0:00:16 > 0:00:19People like going to places like London and Britain
0:00:19 > 0:00:20because they get to see a lot of things
0:00:20 > 0:00:22that they don't have in other places.
0:00:22 > 0:00:26I think the arts really define the Brand of Britain.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32But now, Britain's broke
0:00:32 > 0:00:35and arts organisations are vying with welfare and education
0:00:35 > 0:00:38for their share of the public purse.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40A lot of them will, you know,
0:00:40 > 0:00:43find it much too hard to survive over, you know, this next year.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47'I think that's a real tragedy for, um, for Britain.'
0:00:47 > 0:00:49One of the things you've always had, you know,
0:00:49 > 0:00:52over hundreds of years but, more importantly, you know,
0:00:52 > 0:00:56over the last 20 or 30, is the quality of what you do artistically.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58You know, you pretty much lead the world.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01'After running the Opera House back home in Sydney,
0:01:01 > 0:01:05'I left Australia and came over to the UK ten years ago
0:01:05 > 0:01:07'to overhaul Southbank Centre in London.
0:01:07 > 0:01:11'What I've mostly done is instigate change,'
0:01:11 > 0:01:13and then do the change and then get out.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16'During my time there, I doubled visitor numbers,
0:01:16 > 0:01:19'raised the cash to refurbish Royal Festival Hall
0:01:19 > 0:01:24'and transformed it into the most dynamic arts centre in the world.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27'Now, I'm going to help two unique organisations
0:01:27 > 0:01:30'whose futures are under threat -
0:01:30 > 0:01:32'the UK's only operating Regency theatre.'
0:01:32 > 0:01:35Wow! A brilliant space!
0:01:35 > 0:01:40'And the only classical ballet company in the North of England.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42'They're tackling unprecedented cuts...'
0:01:42 > 0:01:45I am sitting here at the moment with this half a million pounds hole
0:01:45 > 0:01:47in our budget and I've run out of actual options.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49'..Operational issues...'
0:01:49 > 0:01:53- I, I find that the seat I was sitting in pretty uncomfortable.- OK.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56I guess the big challenge, you know, that I'd put to you is -
0:01:56 > 0:01:57what are you going to do about it?
0:01:57 > 0:01:59'..And financial peril.'
0:01:59 > 0:02:02I admire your pluck - I just think the reality is,
0:02:02 > 0:02:07you're heading into another year where you are very much on the edge
0:02:07 > 0:02:09and, unless you've got some magic,
0:02:09 > 0:02:11the challenges are very big.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13'I think change in Britain is quite difficult.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17'I think there is, to some extent, an unquestioning belief
0:02:17 > 0:02:20'that the way we've been doing it
0:02:20 > 0:02:22'is the way that we can keep on doing it.
0:02:22 > 0:02:24'Well, look what happened to your Empire.'
0:02:36 > 0:02:38Bury St Edmunds, in Suffolk,
0:02:38 > 0:02:43is a picture postcard market town at the heart of Middle England.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45Steeped in history,
0:02:45 > 0:02:50the town is home to one of the cultural gems of the Georgian era.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52Welcome to this very august place.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55You are standing on flagstones now
0:02:55 > 0:02:59where the cream of Bury society has gathered.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03Built in 1819, the Theatre Royal was taken back to its original form
0:03:03 > 0:03:09by a £5 million restoration that ran from 2005 to 2007.
0:03:09 > 0:03:14This 350-seater is the only operating Regency theatre left in Britain.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17I love the feeling that we're...
0:03:17 > 0:03:20involved in restoring a,
0:03:20 > 0:03:23a lost piece of culture
0:03:23 > 0:03:24to the public canon.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28But lately, ticket sales are down.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31So you'd like to confirm all 43...
0:03:31 > 0:03:33And, in these tough times, the theatre,
0:03:33 > 0:03:36like many others across the country, is concerned about its future.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40The recession worries me enormously.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42It's a very scary time
0:03:42 > 0:03:44and, quite understandably,
0:03:44 > 0:03:45going out to the theatre
0:03:45 > 0:03:48or going out anywhere is something that has to be low down
0:03:48 > 0:03:51on the priority list at the moment.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I do believe that theatres in, in towns like this in,
0:03:54 > 0:03:55in these sorts of communities
0:03:55 > 0:03:57have a very important part to play.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00If we're talking about, you know a "five-a-day",
0:04:00 > 0:04:02if you like, for, for people's health and wellbeing,
0:04:02 > 0:04:05then the Theatre Royal should be one of those things.
0:04:05 > 0:04:10Unanticipated costs, many arising from the restoration,
0:04:10 > 0:04:14have led to a historical debt of £170,000,
0:04:14 > 0:04:19equivalent to 10% of their annual turnover of £1.7 million.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28The theatre's management have had to take action.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31They've already laid off 17 of around 50 staff,
0:04:31 > 0:04:33and have hired a new chief exec,
0:04:33 > 0:04:36with a brief to deliver financial stability.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43It does feel as if we've got one chance to get this right
0:04:43 > 0:04:48because there's no financial fat in the organisation.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52'We're just about keeping, keeping our heads above water.'
0:04:52 > 0:04:55We have to break even and make surplus,
0:04:55 > 0:04:57and we have to attack that, that deficit.
0:04:57 > 0:05:00'Simon's taking over from Colin Blumenau.'
0:05:00 > 0:05:06Uh, let's just do the one on the boats, uh, where Corinna joins in.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10'After 15 years as joint chief executive and artistic director,
0:05:10 > 0:05:14'Colin will now focus on the creative role,
0:05:14 > 0:05:17'programming more than 200 unique events a year
0:05:17 > 0:05:21'as well as writing and directing some of their in-house production.'
0:05:21 > 0:05:24The organisation is under-capitalised,
0:05:24 > 0:05:27it's under-funded and it's over-ambitious.
0:05:27 > 0:05:31And although those three things I perfectly well understand,
0:05:31 > 0:05:34but will keep pushing for the development of the ambition
0:05:34 > 0:05:36because otherwise, why bother?
0:05:40 > 0:05:45'I started my career running small theatres back in Australia.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48'Regional theatres have thrived in the UK for hundreds of years.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51'It would be a tragedy if any of them were to close.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58'Small theatre's always the birthplace for big theatre.'
0:05:58 > 0:06:00It's hard to find an actor or designer or director
0:06:00 > 0:06:05in the performing arts business who didn't start his or her career
0:06:05 > 0:06:06in a small theatre somewhere.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10'I think the difficulty now is that the landscape
0:06:10 > 0:06:12'is so much more competitive.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14'In the land of the brands the, you know, the small theatre is,'
0:06:14 > 0:06:17you know, potentially another casualty.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24'Reducing staff numbers has given the Theatre Royal a financial buffer,
0:06:24 > 0:06:26'but they also need to find other ways
0:06:26 > 0:06:28'of increasing their annual income.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30'Although they're subsidised,
0:06:30 > 0:06:34'most of their income comes from the box office.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37'Just 8% of their annual income
0:06:37 > 0:06:40'comes from national funding body the Arts Council,
0:06:40 > 0:06:43'with another 12% from local government.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46'12% comes from their in-house fundraising.
0:06:46 > 0:06:51'But the lion's share, a whopping 60%, comes from ticket sales.'
0:06:51 > 0:06:53- Morning, all.- Hello.- Hi.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55- Have a seat.- Nice to be coming to...
0:06:55 > 0:06:57'I'm meeting the senior management team
0:06:57 > 0:07:00'to hear about the challenges for the year ahead.'
0:07:00 > 0:07:04So the biggest funder, erm, are the audiences,
0:07:04 > 0:07:07and in commercial terms, of course,
0:07:07 > 0:07:11that's the most market-sensitive area of all
0:07:11 > 0:07:19Uh, we're seeing audiences at, er, 60, 60...67, 68% of capacity.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22You know, that's a good starting point.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26We, we also perhaps fear that there are audiences out there
0:07:26 > 0:07:28who were perhaps loyal to the organisation who...
0:07:28 > 0:07:30who have drifted for whatever reason.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33Maybe that's related to the refurbishment project or not.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35Because you were closed for 18 months
0:07:35 > 0:07:38and you didn't have work out on the road?
0:07:38 > 0:07:41Some of the older audiences who've been at the building,
0:07:41 > 0:07:43er, in the pre-restoration period
0:07:43 > 0:07:46and sat in the lovely squeaky Victorian seats
0:07:46 > 0:07:47or the loose box chairs
0:07:47 > 0:07:50feel that the new seats are not what they wanted.
0:07:50 > 0:07:55Before its restoration, the theatre had velvet-covered flip-up seats.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58These were replaced by a modern interpretation
0:07:58 > 0:08:00of bench-like Georgian seating.
0:08:00 > 0:08:06The, the fact that the seats are not good, um, is still being...
0:08:06 > 0:08:09that's still being held by our, by audiences who aren't coming.
0:08:09 > 0:08:10You hear it a lot.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13You know, you take a taxi ride, you ask about the seats,
0:08:13 > 0:08:16you ask about the Theatre Royal, sooner or later you'll be told that,
0:08:16 > 0:08:19"Oh, well, I don't go any more because of the seats."
0:08:19 > 0:08:21And a lot of my customers say that.
0:08:21 > 0:08:22Rather than saying,
0:08:22 > 0:08:25"I don't come to the theatre because I'm not a theatre person,"
0:08:25 > 0:08:28they say, "Oh, it's cos the seats are uncomfortable."
0:08:28 > 0:08:31So, they, they, that has become a kind of a little catchphrase.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Even amongst people that don't come.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37The good news is that our audience levels haven't decreased.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40- We've just changed our audience... - Erm, replaced them...
0:08:40 > 0:08:43And coming off the building project, you don't have reserves
0:08:43 > 0:08:45or endowments or any of those other things
0:08:45 > 0:08:48that are going to provide you with a safety cushion.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51No, we don't. The, the organisation has no reserves whatsoever
0:08:51 > 0:08:55- and carries an accumulated deficit. - Yep.
0:08:55 > 0:09:00There is no, there is no security upon which to borrow, and...
0:09:00 > 0:09:03So you're very much dependent on, you know,
0:09:03 > 0:09:07the goodwill of your bankers really, at this point in time?
0:09:07 > 0:09:10We're completely dependent on the goodwill of our punters.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13No, I understand that part.
0:09:13 > 0:09:16Well, because...they're our bank, er...
0:09:16 > 0:09:18And we've done...
0:09:18 > 0:09:20'I'm really interested in working with Theatre Royal
0:09:20 > 0:09:24'because part of their programme is producing their own unique work.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27'Last financial year, they staged six in-house productions
0:09:27 > 0:09:31'but, to save money and minimise the risk of losses,
0:09:31 > 0:09:34'they're doing just three this year.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37'They've chosen the first two and Colin's written both -
0:09:37 > 0:09:41'a musical play about Georgian highwayman Dick Turpin
0:09:41 > 0:09:44'and the pantomime Dick Whittington.
0:09:44 > 0:09:48'Each year, Colin and the team's pantos bring in a profit
0:09:48 > 0:09:53'of around £150,000, crucial to supporting the rest of their work.'
0:09:53 > 0:09:58Clearly this year, you know, Dick Turpin, Dick Whittington
0:09:58 > 0:10:02are absolutely critical to determining
0:10:02 > 0:10:05- where you are going to be next year. - Yup.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07But the, the fact that you're actually taking a piece
0:10:07 > 0:10:11that people do not know, have not seen...
0:10:11 > 0:10:13Yeah, the only thing it's got going for it
0:10:13 > 0:10:16is that it's about somebody they may have heard of.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20But, yeah, it's a new play, written by somebody they've never heard of,
0:10:20 > 0:10:22with music by somebody they've never heard of,
0:10:22 > 0:10:24with a cast they've never heard of,
0:10:24 > 0:10:26directed by somebody they've never heard of.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28Uh, and we're asking them...
0:10:28 > 0:10:31So there's a lot of good faith, but a lot riding on it for,
0:10:31 > 0:10:34for both you and for your partners as we move into the next stage.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36Yep. In terms of both money and reputation.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38Yep, yep. OK, yep.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41The knife-edge economics are, are such that, that all...
0:10:41 > 0:10:45all of our ducklings have to be swans.
0:10:45 > 0:10:48LAUGHTER
0:10:51 > 0:10:54In-house productions take up just 12 and a half weeks
0:10:54 > 0:10:56of the theatre's annual programme.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00The rest is a mixed repertoire of bought-in work,
0:11:00 > 0:11:02from professional touring drama
0:11:02 > 0:11:05to one-offs such as big-name stand-ups and famous singers,
0:11:05 > 0:11:09as well as local amateur dramatics and community productions.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12They also have a dynamic education programme.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15There used to be a door in the middle there...
0:11:15 > 0:11:19This financial year they plan to spend just over £320,000
0:11:19 > 0:11:23on in-house productions and £190,000 on bought-in work.
0:11:23 > 0:11:27Since the restoration, they've staged 26 of their own productions,
0:11:27 > 0:11:30'all without any extra money from the Arts Council,
0:11:30 > 0:11:33'who only contribute towards the work they buy in.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37'They're one of the few small subsidised theatres
0:11:37 > 0:11:42'who continue to produce their own work without Arts Council funding.'
0:11:42 > 0:11:45I can understand why they want to produce work themselves,
0:11:45 > 0:11:48you know, particularly in that circumstance, because, you know,
0:11:48 > 0:11:51you'd want to try and create some connection between what the work is
0:11:51 > 0:11:53and what the theatre is.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56But they've not been funded to create their own work
0:11:56 > 0:11:58and, you know, clearly that's put them under,
0:11:58 > 0:12:01quite significant pressure.
0:12:01 > 0:12:02'And I guess that's a dilemma
0:12:02 > 0:12:05'that the theatre's been facing for a few years.'
0:12:08 > 0:12:11Producing your own work is one of the most expensive ways
0:12:11 > 0:12:13'of putting on shows, so Colin needs
0:12:13 > 0:12:16'to keep a keen eye on the commercial.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20'Since Simon's arrival, Colin's now working three days a week,
0:12:20 > 0:12:22'so I'm going to see him at home.'
0:12:24 > 0:12:25- Colin, Michael Lynch...- Hi!
0:12:25 > 0:12:28'Colin's not just a director and playwright -
0:12:28 > 0:12:30'in the '80s, he spent seven years
0:12:30 > 0:12:33'playing PC Taffy Edwards in The Bill.'
0:12:33 > 0:12:35I started as an actor and then,
0:12:35 > 0:12:38gradually took on, er, writing, directing...
0:12:38 > 0:12:42- So you were writing The Bill... - Yes, I wrote a couple of episodes of The Bill early on.- Oh, OK.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44THEY CHUCKLE
0:12:44 > 0:12:47'Since the restoration, the theatre's developed a specialist strand
0:12:47 > 0:12:51'in resurrecting previously forgotten Georgian plays.'
0:12:51 > 0:12:55Yeah, that's the one we re-opened with in, in 2007.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57That's Black-Eyed Susan.
0:12:57 > 0:12:59But had anyone ever done that before?
0:12:59 > 0:13:02Yeah, no, it was the most popular play of the 19th century,
0:13:02 > 0:13:05without exception. Absolutely the most popular play.
0:13:05 > 0:13:07And it was done right up until the middle of the 20th century
0:13:07 > 0:13:10and then people stopped doing it, because it fell out of favour.
0:13:10 > 0:13:14'The theatre's got an archive of undiscovered Georgian pieces.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18'This will be the first year since 2007 that they're not staging one.'
0:13:18 > 0:13:22What do you see as the prospects for, you know,
0:13:22 > 0:13:25future pieces of, of that repertoire?
0:13:25 > 0:13:30If we start with Black-Eyed Susan as the most successful, which it was,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33it played to 103% capacity or whatever it was...
0:13:33 > 0:13:36it ended up playing to.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39It still lost us tens of thousands of pounds.
0:13:39 > 0:13:40Uh, which we can't afford. Er...
0:13:40 > 0:13:43And why was that? Because of the cast size, the...
0:13:43 > 0:13:47Yeah, it costs a lot of money to put that many people on stage
0:13:47 > 0:13:49in a production of that quality.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53And, consequently, every time we do a piece of Georgian work,
0:13:53 > 0:13:56we have to live up to that quality standard.
0:13:56 > 0:13:59And the, the consequence of that is every time we do it,
0:13:59 > 0:14:01we lose money on it.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05- And you were never intending you would just do Georgian work... - Absolutely not.
0:14:05 > 0:14:10It was, you know, clearly... maintain a balance between produced work by the theatre
0:14:10 > 0:14:14and other work coming in as part of other people's touring circuits.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17And, indeed, we produce far more, and have produced far more,
0:14:17 > 0:14:20non-Georgian work than we have Georgian work.
0:14:20 > 0:14:22And we continue to do that.
0:14:22 > 0:14:26Why this year did you choose to do the, the Dick Turpin piece?
0:14:26 > 0:14:28I think we decided that,
0:14:28 > 0:14:31that what we needed to do was a solid middle-scale piece
0:14:31 > 0:14:35that would attract an audience because they knew, er, the subject matter
0:14:35 > 0:14:40and Dick Turpin most people have heard of.
0:14:40 > 0:14:44The, the sources I've used to inform and write the play,
0:14:44 > 0:14:47have all been Georgian. 18th century.
0:14:47 > 0:14:49'I can only count on a couple of fingers'
0:14:49 > 0:14:50the number of Georgian plays
0:14:50 > 0:14:53that have probably made any money anywhere ever,
0:14:53 > 0:14:54except during the Georgian period.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58'To make a new piece of work work in, you know,
0:14:58 > 0:15:02'the regional context is, I think, incredibly difficult.'
0:15:02 > 0:15:05I think you add a double degree of difficulty
0:15:05 > 0:15:09if you decide to do either Georgian plays that nobody knows
0:15:09 > 0:15:14or that you create, you know, new work you've written yourselves,
0:15:14 > 0:15:17degree of difficulty - about 9.9.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22Now I want to turn my attention
0:15:22 > 0:15:24to the other issue I'm going to focus on.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27I've tackled a few hard sells in my time,
0:15:27 > 0:15:32but here it seems comfort could be the key to getting bums on seats.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36- If I sit too long on a hard seat, I can get cramp in my legs.- Right.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38And so if they did something about the seats,
0:15:38 > 0:15:41- you'd feel much more comfortable? - I'd go back, yeah.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44What are your in principle objections to what it is now?
0:15:44 > 0:15:48I don't think it's such a comfortable place to sit in, apart from anything else.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51I know everybody says that the chairs are so uncomfortable,
0:15:51 > 0:15:55but it is an important part of going to the theatre, comfort, isn't it?
0:15:55 > 0:15:58If you sit on those seats without a cushion, they are not comfortable.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01I think before, you were used to going in, and you were like
0:16:01 > 0:16:04sitting in a cinema in a comfy chair with padding round
0:16:04 > 0:16:07- and tip-up seats and everything. - It's not like that now.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11I have one friend who doesn't go any more
0:16:11 > 0:16:15because when he's been sitting at the theatre for a performance,
0:16:15 > 0:16:18he has backache for ages afterwards.
0:16:18 > 0:16:22- Well, that's not a good look, is it? - No, so he's given up going.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27I'm worried that the seats are still a talking point,
0:16:27 > 0:16:31four years since they were first unveiled.
0:16:31 > 0:16:33Clearly, the problem of the seats
0:16:33 > 0:16:35ain't going to go away, it'll only get worse
0:16:35 > 0:16:39and the longer they let the public perception ride,
0:16:39 > 0:16:41the less attractive it becomes
0:16:41 > 0:16:45for people to want to make that jump into supporting them.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48The restoration was undertaken
0:16:48 > 0:16:52in partnership with both the Heritage Lottery Fund
0:16:52 > 0:16:54and the theatre's leaseholder, the National Trust,
0:16:54 > 0:16:58and given the building's Grade I listed status,
0:16:58 > 0:17:01with input from English Heritage.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04I think the theatre is immeasurably...
0:17:05 > 0:17:08..better for having had the restoration.
0:17:08 > 0:17:13There are things wrong with the restoration, as we all know,
0:17:13 > 0:17:15and when I die and they cut my heart open,
0:17:15 > 0:17:17it'll probably say "seats" on it.
0:17:17 > 0:17:22Dealing with the seats now falls to Simon, as incoming chief exec.
0:17:24 > 0:17:28'He spent 17 years running regional theatres and arts organisations.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31'As well as fielding complaints about comfort,
0:17:31 > 0:17:34'he's got an extra challenge with the folding box seats.'
0:17:34 > 0:17:37- Are you in?- Yeah.- Good.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39So, this looks like a valiant attempt.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42The problem is, it is very complicated.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46You know, it was a neat idea to make it look like a heritage theatre
0:17:46 > 0:17:50but long-term, I don't think it's ever going to work.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52You've got a big problem, haven't you?
0:17:52 > 0:17:55That's tens of thousands of pounds of...
0:17:55 > 0:17:57Even if you just change the box seats,
0:17:57 > 0:18:00- it'll cost a substantial amount of money.- It won't be cheap.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04About twelve months ago, it was before my time,
0:18:04 > 0:18:07an alternative seating proposal was put forward
0:18:07 > 0:18:10and we had a prototype box
0:18:10 > 0:18:15and we invited the audiences to comment on that particular thing
0:18:15 > 0:18:17so there is a little bit of evidence there.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20- And what happened? - It was a positive response.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23I need to look at the detail of that, before moving forward.
0:18:23 > 0:18:29I guess I'd want to know before I invested more money in changing it,
0:18:29 > 0:18:31you know, what are the gripes?
0:18:31 > 0:18:34- You're quite right.- And so I think that needs some systematic analysis
0:18:34 > 0:18:37of who the people are, what are they talking about?
0:18:37 > 0:18:41Is the problem here the same as the problem down there?
0:18:41 > 0:18:43What I want to do about this,
0:18:43 > 0:18:47as the man at the top of this organisation right now,
0:18:47 > 0:18:52is to make an acknowledgement to our audiences and the community
0:18:52 > 0:18:56that we acknowledge that they're not right - for whatever reason,
0:18:56 > 0:18:59they're not right and we need to do something about it.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02'Simon will have to do something big and visible
0:19:02 > 0:19:04'to turn the tide of public perception.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08'It was probably quite brave of Simon to let me come in.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11'I think the first six months in any organisation
0:19:11 > 0:19:13if you're the chief executive
0:19:13 > 0:19:16is the hardest period in being able to stamp some authority on it.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19Clearly that's, in his case, much more difficult,
0:19:19 > 0:19:22when you've got the outgoing chief exec
0:19:22 > 0:19:25already, you know, down the end of the corridor.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33It's June, and three months before Dick Turpin opens,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36Colin's in London for a read-through
0:19:36 > 0:19:38with the play's director, Abigail Anderson.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42Does it feel weird announcing yourself? Like, how does that work?
0:19:42 > 0:19:45It's my first chance to get a glimpse of the work.
0:19:45 > 0:19:49The introductions and the stuff to the audience
0:19:49 > 0:19:53is about, uh, the characters using the audience as jury
0:19:53 > 0:19:57for the ultimate question about whose version is right.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59Turpin was chosen
0:19:59 > 0:20:06because we thought we could maximise our potential income out of it,
0:20:06 > 0:20:09because of the name of Turpin and because it was a musical.
0:20:09 > 0:20:13That's one of the things that we're trying to explore,
0:20:13 > 0:20:16trying to develop a more profitable way,
0:20:16 > 0:20:20or at least a more sustainable way, of creating work.
0:20:20 > 0:20:24To reduce costs, Dick Turpin will have just five actors,
0:20:24 > 0:20:28half as many as the smallest Georgian play.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31As well as playing for two-and-a-half weeks in Bury,
0:20:31 > 0:20:34the production will go on a six-week tour.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37Playing additional venues means more potential revenue
0:20:37 > 0:20:40but it also means an increased wage bill
0:20:40 > 0:20:44that takes the production budget up to £100,000.
0:20:44 > 0:20:48First to the house of the widow Shelley of Loughton!
0:20:48 > 0:20:49Oh...
0:20:49 > 0:20:50Ned Rust!
0:20:50 > 0:20:52Samuel Gregory.
0:20:52 > 0:20:53And Dick Turpin.
0:20:53 > 0:20:57New work is, you know, of its nature, much riskier.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59I'll do it.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01I would have thought in the present circumstances,
0:21:01 > 0:21:04people would be more risk-averse
0:21:04 > 0:21:06about buying a new piece that no-one's seen,
0:21:06 > 0:21:10it hasn't been reviewed, they have no knowledge of it.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15If it's a turkey, it'll sort of be barbecued by Christmas.
0:21:20 > 0:21:22The key strategic decisions for Dick Turpin and the panto
0:21:22 > 0:21:24have already been taken,
0:21:24 > 0:21:28so I want to help with ideas for their next in-house production.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31I'm at The Guardian to see a keen admirer of the theatre,
0:21:31 > 0:21:35one of the country's leading critics, Michael Billington.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38I think it's one of the most beautiful theatres in the British Isles.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40As you know, it's very intimate,
0:21:40 > 0:21:45- it's kept that sort of Georgian... what is it, 1819 framework?- 1819.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48So I think they need lots of different strands to their programme
0:21:48 > 0:21:52and possibly should try to attract name actors,
0:21:52 > 0:21:55starry actors to come and work there because these days,
0:21:55 > 0:21:59audiences will always flock if there's a name they can recognise
0:21:59 > 0:22:02and that part of the world seems to me to be a home, or second home,
0:22:02 > 0:22:04for quite a lot of distinguished actors.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07Bill Nighy, I know, for example, has a base up in Suffolk.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10Why not get him to come and work, do a restoration comedy?
0:22:10 > 0:22:14No, that's a fantastic idea. Your point about the actors, I assume,
0:22:14 > 0:22:18stands for the ability to bring in a name director at some point...
0:22:18 > 0:22:22- Why not?- ..to shape a piece in a very special place?
0:22:22 > 0:22:26- Any theatre these days depends upon vitality.- You've got to shake it up.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28The vitality of the directors.
0:22:28 > 0:22:31I mean, there's a very good example I can give you.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33There's a beautiful theatre in Northampton,
0:22:33 > 0:22:37an old Victorian theatre that was not much paid attention to
0:22:37 > 0:22:40and then a guy called Rupert Goold took it over
0:22:40 > 0:22:43and suddenly started doing these amazing productions,
0:22:43 > 0:22:46and often inviting a few names in as well
0:22:46 > 0:22:50and we all started beetling up the M1 to go to Northampton.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53Now that's one of the major regional theatres.
0:22:53 > 0:22:55And I think we have a stream of very good directors
0:22:55 > 0:22:58and I think that's what Colin should be trying to tap into.
0:23:00 > 0:23:03The likes of Dame Judi Dench and Sir Peter Hall
0:23:03 > 0:23:07supported the theatre's restoration, but the great and the good
0:23:07 > 0:23:10haven't been involved in its in-house productions since then.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14I want to know if star names would pull more locals in.
0:23:14 > 0:23:19What sort of things should they be doing to attract someone like you?
0:23:19 > 0:23:22I'd like to see bigger names come along,
0:23:22 > 0:23:24if they could attract some bigger names.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28- Right, so big names in the shows would make a difference to you?- Yes.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32I mean, if it's a good theatre production of Agatha Christie
0:23:32 > 0:23:37or a detective...whodunnit, then I think that that would be great.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39They've concentrated much more
0:23:39 > 0:23:43on doing what I call older-type drama...
0:23:43 > 0:23:45- The Georgian repertoire...- Yes,
0:23:45 > 0:23:48- which sometimes doesn't always appeal to me.- Right.
0:23:48 > 0:23:53I have to say, I quite like a musical or the ballet.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57- A work that you'd know.- Yes. Gilbert and Sullivan or something like that.
0:23:59 > 0:24:05Audiences in hard times tend to gravitate back to stuff they know
0:24:05 > 0:24:08and are much less willing to engage with new work.
0:24:08 > 0:24:12I think the National Theatre can afford to do that.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14The Royal Court can afford to do that.
0:24:14 > 0:24:18I think it's really hard for the Theatre Royal to be believing
0:24:18 > 0:24:22there's such an adventurous bunch of theatregoers out in Bury St Edmunds
0:24:22 > 0:24:27that are just waiting for the opportunity to see some new work.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36It's July. Every two months,
0:24:36 > 0:24:39Simon needs to update the theatre's board of trustees on his progress.
0:24:39 > 0:24:45The board is made up of some of the area's leading lights from public life
0:24:45 > 0:24:47and is chaired by Brian Stewart, OBE.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51We start with the... I suppose, start with the bad news
0:24:51 > 0:24:54and then we move on to the good news.
0:24:54 > 0:24:59We have previously reported, before my time,
0:24:59 > 0:25:05an expectation of an operating loss for last year,
0:25:05 > 0:25:08and what we're actually reporting now is a set of figures
0:25:08 > 0:25:12which is in line with that level of expectation.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14What that means is that what you're seeing here
0:25:14 > 0:25:18is the impact of errors carried forward over the last two years,
0:25:18 > 0:25:21in terms of the way the accounts have been prepared,
0:25:21 > 0:25:23which is unfortunate, but there we are.
0:25:23 > 0:25:27OK, so we'll move seamlessly on to the management accounts.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30They are, you know, encouraging
0:25:30 > 0:25:34in a way that the same two months of previous years
0:25:34 > 0:25:39have not had that sort of sense of encouragement.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42But Simon, or Colin, have you any idea
0:25:42 > 0:25:45as to why these figures are as healthy as they are?
0:25:45 > 0:25:48The real change in these figures
0:25:48 > 0:25:51is the fact that we've made 17 people redundant.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55That's where you get the security from.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58Discussion moves on to the theatre's next in-house production,
0:25:58 > 0:26:01to be staged in Spring 2012.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04Just to remind you, it's referred to in our minutes
0:26:04 > 0:26:07that we did say we wanted a commercially-safe production
0:26:07 > 0:26:12and hopefully you will keep that in mind when choosing what to do?
0:26:12 > 0:26:14Nah, I think we'll do a...
0:26:14 > 0:26:16Yeah, commercially safe, there is no such thing.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18You know what we had in mind.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20We'll try and do something commercially attractive.
0:26:20 > 0:26:26Colin, I guess in allowing Simon to come in and him to step aside,
0:26:26 > 0:26:31was part of a journey that is probably not great for Colin.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34It must put him in a somewhat uncomfortable situation
0:26:34 > 0:26:37when, you know, if you're raking over the past history,
0:26:37 > 0:26:39you have responsibility for it
0:26:39 > 0:26:42but you're still dependent on the board for your support
0:26:42 > 0:26:47about how much latitude you're given as artistic director.
0:26:47 > 0:26:48It's so interesting, isn't it,
0:26:48 > 0:26:52that when you're still there when people are raking over the coals,
0:26:52 > 0:26:54you have to...
0:26:54 > 0:26:58react in a particular way.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00Never forget that I used to be an actor
0:27:00 > 0:27:02and I can dissemble quite well,
0:27:02 > 0:27:07but if somebody criticises the past, it's like saying your baby's ugly.
0:27:07 > 0:27:11You know, you just, you... die a little bit inside.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17'After yesterday's board meeting,
0:27:17 > 0:27:20'I want the spring production to make a big splash.'
0:27:20 > 0:27:23Did you feel a bit sensitive when they were talking about,
0:27:23 > 0:27:27you know, the back history and the finance issues
0:27:27 > 0:27:29and any of that stuff?
0:27:29 > 0:27:31- Of course, I'm human.- Yeah.
0:27:31 > 0:27:34There's a bit of you inside, going,
0:27:34 > 0:27:36"Well, hold on a minute, that's not quite the case."
0:27:36 > 0:27:40I talked to Michael Billington. He's been very supportive of the company
0:27:40 > 0:27:43- over quite a long time, I think... - Yeah, four or five years.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45He did make a couple of interesting points.
0:27:45 > 0:27:50I just wondered how much you'd given thought about the idea
0:27:50 > 0:27:54of a name cast or a name director or local identity.
0:27:54 > 0:27:58Name casting, uh, is something that I think we should try
0:27:58 > 0:28:00and indeed, in the past,
0:28:00 > 0:28:04we have tried to attract, kind of, that calibre of artist.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07What I don't want to do
0:28:07 > 0:28:12is just put famous names in a well-known piece
0:28:12 > 0:28:16and give it to a big-name director to do what they want with.
0:28:16 > 0:28:20There's bit of me, and I don't think this is surprising at all,
0:28:20 > 0:28:23that says the last five years
0:28:23 > 0:28:26has been about discovering how to do this very specific work
0:28:26 > 0:28:29in this very specific building
0:28:29 > 0:28:32and there are only a couple of us who've done it
0:28:32 > 0:28:36- and...I'm protective of it.- Right.
0:28:36 > 0:28:39What it seems to me to give the theatre
0:28:39 > 0:28:45is an opportunity to reposition the theatre in a loud way
0:28:45 > 0:28:47and then you get your opportunity
0:28:47 > 0:28:50with the other productions later in the year
0:28:50 > 0:28:53and you give yourself a good jumping-off point
0:28:53 > 0:28:55for where you're going to go
0:28:55 > 0:29:01in terms of your plan for 2013 and 2014 and beyond.
0:29:02 > 0:29:04- Well, that's good, then.- Yeah, good.
0:29:04 > 0:29:05Sorted.
0:29:09 > 0:29:14It's really easy to say, "Why don't you cast star names?"
0:29:14 > 0:29:17Really easy, and everybody says it all the time.
0:29:17 > 0:29:21"Oh, wouldn't it be great if we had so-and-so in it?"
0:29:21 > 0:29:25The reality is much harder, much harder.
0:29:27 > 0:29:29Despite his reservations,
0:29:29 > 0:29:32Colin starts planning for a well-known classic
0:29:32 > 0:29:34and is going after some big names.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37Hi, it's Colin at the Theatre Royal in Bury St Edmunds.
0:29:37 > 0:29:41Hello, can I speak to somebody about Donald Sinden?
0:29:41 > 0:29:45Hi, can you tell me who handles Roger Lloyd Pack, please?
0:29:45 > 0:29:47'We do fantastic work'
0:29:47 > 0:29:50but we don't have the profile that attracts those kind of names
0:29:50 > 0:29:52to be able to come and work with us,
0:29:52 > 0:29:55nor, evidently, do we have the money to pay their fees.
0:29:55 > 0:29:58It's Colin from the Theatre Royal in Bury St Edmunds.
0:29:58 > 0:30:00But we should never stop trying.
0:30:00 > 0:30:04Hello, could you tell me who I need to speak to about Lynda Baron?
0:30:04 > 0:30:06Er, Martin Jarvis.
0:30:06 > 0:30:07Tim Brooke-Taylor, please?
0:30:07 > 0:30:09Nigel Havers.
0:30:09 > 0:30:15I hope that we'll be successful and, er, I shall be surprised when we are.
0:30:15 > 0:30:19We should meet and talk before any offer is made, because you may hate me!
0:30:19 > 0:30:23Of course, big names can be expensive and difficult to secure.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26But I think it's worth it to help establish a new blueprint
0:30:26 > 0:30:29for producing at the theatre.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32They're more likely to get national publicity,
0:30:32 > 0:30:35more likely to get critical response.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38And that would apply to trying to sell unknown plays.
0:30:38 > 0:30:41Now I guess that gives them the chance to have a life on tour
0:30:41 > 0:30:43around the rest of the country.
0:30:43 > 0:30:48That's the one thing that 350-seat theatres are quite good at doing,
0:30:48 > 0:30:55is creating a production that, you know, can then go on to other places.
0:30:55 > 0:30:59But it helps if you've got the right starting point.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04He doesn't want to do theatre any more.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07# Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor
0:31:07 > 0:31:10# Rich man, poor man... #
0:31:10 > 0:31:13It's the end of August and Dick Turpin opens in just three weeks.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18Colin and director Abbey are in rehearsals.
0:31:18 > 0:31:21# Butcher, tailor, poacher, stealer
0:31:21 > 0:31:24- # Rich man, poor man, highwayman.- #
0:31:24 > 0:31:30As the play has evolved, it's become an intricate exploration of the Dick Turpin myth.
0:31:30 > 0:31:37The play concerns itself with quite...detailed concepts, quite sophisticated concepts.
0:31:37 > 0:31:40I was quite surprised when I got the script that you gave me,
0:31:40 > 0:31:43because it seemed less to fit in, possibly,
0:31:43 > 0:31:47with the most obvious bums-on-seatsy kind of show.
0:31:47 > 0:31:52Say again what the point of this bit is.
0:31:52 > 0:31:57So we're starting with a very familiar piece of music and words.
0:31:57 > 0:32:03- Then we're going into something a bit coarser in the style of singing. - Yeah.
0:32:03 > 0:32:06Although you have the best intentions when you start to
0:32:06 > 0:32:09write a play, you want to write it about a certain thing,
0:32:09 > 0:32:14in a certain way - er, it quite often develops a life of its own.
0:32:14 > 0:32:18And this, certainly, the central thesis of the play came up, hit me in the face,
0:32:18 > 0:32:22and I thought, "Well, I can't ignore it,", despite the fact
0:32:22 > 0:32:26that the manager in me, or the programmer in me, was going,
0:32:26 > 0:32:29"Don't forget to make it popular, don't forget to make it exciting."
0:32:29 > 0:32:32- Yeah - you've written a real play! - Hurrah!- Well done.
0:32:33 > 0:32:35# ..by his side
0:32:35 > 0:32:41# And his pot in his pocket
0:32:41 > 0:32:44# Oh, rue the day
0:32:44 > 0:32:47# So merry again
0:32:47 > 0:32:52# As the game of all games I told him... #
0:32:54 > 0:32:57It's only 24 hours to opening night.
0:32:57 > 0:33:00# Get to the game... #
0:33:00 > 0:33:03While final dress rehearsals are under way,
0:33:03 > 0:33:05I want to find out how the box office is doing.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07Good morning.
0:33:07 > 0:33:08'Head of External Relations, Chris,
0:33:08 > 0:33:12'is tracking advance sales for the show's run in Bury.'
0:33:12 > 0:33:14So how are things?
0:33:14 > 0:33:16- Scary.- I, I can see that graph!
0:33:16 > 0:33:20My eyes are automatically drawn to any graph.
0:33:20 > 0:33:24Yeah. It's very nerve-racking at the moment. We open tomorrow night.
0:33:24 > 0:33:28We're at a place almost identical to where
0:33:28 > 0:33:31- we were this time last year with London Merchant.- Right.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34The London Merchant finished its run at about £25,000
0:33:34 > 0:33:36and our target is 48,000.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39So you finished 20 grand shy of where you want to be.
0:33:39 > 0:33:41Yeah.
0:33:41 > 0:33:44In terms of audience, we're at around about 29% of capacity.
0:33:44 > 0:33:47We've got to get to between 55-60% of capacity.
0:33:47 > 0:33:49- Right. So you're about halfway. - About halfway.
0:33:49 > 0:33:54It doesn't seem to have kicked forward the way we'd like it to have had done.
0:33:55 > 0:33:59'The advance sales for the run in Bury are worrying, so I want
0:33:59 > 0:34:03'to get a sense of the play's commercial potential for myself.
0:34:03 > 0:34:05'It's opening night.'
0:34:05 > 0:34:08# Rich man, poor man Highway man
0:34:08 > 0:34:09# Thief... #
0:34:12 > 0:34:14'Despite slow advance sales,
0:34:14 > 0:34:17'it's good to see a first-night house that's two-thirds full.
0:34:17 > 0:34:21'It's my first chance to watch one of the theatre's in-house productions
0:34:21 > 0:34:26'in this Georgian gem, and to experience the seats for myself.'
0:34:34 > 0:34:37- Hello.- Hello, I'm Karen. - Hi, Michael Lynch. Good to meet you.
0:34:37 > 0:34:40- I'm Helen. Nice to see you. - Hello. Hi. Good to meet you.
0:34:40 > 0:34:42DRUMMING
0:34:42 > 0:34:44SOLO VIOLIN PLAYS A MELODY
0:34:53 > 0:34:55Unpicking the myth of the highwayman
0:34:55 > 0:34:56and his trusty horse Black Bess,
0:34:56 > 0:34:59the play's a piece with many elements.
0:35:02 > 0:35:03Here, boy!
0:35:04 > 0:35:06# Soldier, sailor
0:35:06 > 0:35:08# Beggar man thief. #
0:35:08 > 0:35:10Is this the Widow Shelley's, Gaffney?
0:35:10 > 0:35:14Aye, Ned, the old blower has seven or eight hundred souls by 'er!
0:35:14 > 0:35:17# Tinker, tailor, soldier, stealer
0:35:17 > 0:35:19# Rich man, poor man, highway man
0:35:19 > 0:35:21# Thief! #
0:35:21 > 0:35:24Stand and deliver! Your money or your life!
0:35:24 > 0:35:25GUNSHOT
0:35:25 > 0:35:27He's wounded in the thigh, again.
0:35:27 > 0:35:28GUNSHOT
0:35:28 > 0:35:34The ball, propelled, flies up, and, smoked-edged and red hot
0:35:34 > 0:35:36lodges itself in Tom's breast.
0:35:41 > 0:35:42It's very good.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45- Very atmospheric.- Yes. Very energetic.
0:35:45 > 0:35:49I think it's brilliant, and the actors are multi-talented,
0:35:49 > 0:35:54the singing, the dancing, impersonating animals - it's all very, very good.
0:35:54 > 0:35:57And the music is really good.
0:35:57 > 0:35:58It's a nice production.
0:35:58 > 0:36:01I think they've done great, in the period of rehearsal.
0:36:01 > 0:36:03I think the, you know,
0:36:03 > 0:36:06director's done a good job to realise the piece.
0:36:06 > 0:36:08I think the actors were good.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13My question mark is probably over the piece itself.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16If you're not interested in Dick Turpin or horses,
0:36:16 > 0:36:21then I think it's probably, er, of limited appeal.
0:36:22 > 0:36:26'If the play itself is going to be a tough sell, two hours
0:36:26 > 0:36:29'in the theatre have got me thinking about my other area of focus.'
0:36:30 > 0:36:31APPLAUSE
0:36:32 > 0:36:36The seats are very uncomfortable, I think,
0:36:36 > 0:36:40and quite complicated when you've got a full box.
0:36:46 > 0:36:49'After my experience last night,
0:36:49 > 0:36:52'I want to turn my attention back to the seats.'
0:36:52 > 0:36:54I just wanted to raise again the issue of the seats
0:36:54 > 0:36:56- Oh, yes.- Yeah.
0:36:56 > 0:36:59Having sat there last night, I find that the seat I was sitting in
0:36:59 > 0:37:04pretty uncomfortable. It becomes quite difficult when you've got
0:37:04 > 0:37:08six people in those boxes, how you move around, how you get out -
0:37:08 > 0:37:13and, you know, it's, they're not, they're not fabulous.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15And I haven't been... That was really
0:37:15 > 0:37:18- the observation from the boxes. - That's a very fair observation,
0:37:18 > 0:37:21exactly what we were getting at when we were talking about that.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24And, you know, audiences have come and they've tried
0:37:24 > 0:37:28to work out this rather challenging configuration of, of how
0:37:28 > 0:37:31the seats work and they've left here feeling negative about it.
0:37:31 > 0:37:35I guess the big challenge that I'd put to you is, what you are going to do about it?
0:37:35 > 0:37:37We need to get to the root of the problem.
0:37:37 > 0:37:41Just to test the waters about what the issues truly are.
0:37:41 > 0:37:43We've not for some time gone out to those people
0:37:43 > 0:37:44and said, "So what is it?
0:37:44 > 0:37:47"Is it about comfort? Is it about this? Is it about that?"
0:37:47 > 0:37:49And just testing those, testing potential...
0:37:49 > 0:37:51So do you think you're going to do that? Is, er...
0:37:51 > 0:37:55I think we, I think we have to take our audiences with us.
0:37:59 > 0:38:02With Dick Turpin on the road, the rest of the autumn programme
0:38:02 > 0:38:05features an array of unique on-stage events.
0:38:05 > 0:38:09# 20 lovesick maidens we... #
0:38:09 > 0:38:13They're also busy hooking in the audiences of tomorrow.
0:38:13 > 0:38:16In any one year, the theatre has 6,500 children and teens
0:38:16 > 0:38:19involved in specialist projects.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23This is where the rabble would sit in 1819,
0:38:23 > 0:38:26to watch a play, and they would squish right up, up here...
0:38:26 > 0:38:27Behind the scenes,
0:38:27 > 0:38:32Simon's just got some new visitor feedback on the seats.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34So just going through the responses,
0:38:34 > 0:38:36"What has effected your enjoyment in a negative way?"
0:38:36 > 0:38:39"Very uncomfortable seats, they must surely be a risk."
0:38:39 > 0:38:41You know, "Take out the seating", it says here.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44Um, there's something here, you know, "What would improve your experience?"
0:38:44 > 0:38:46"New seats."
0:38:46 > 0:38:48You know, "The current arrangements are painful."
0:38:48 > 0:38:51Somebody's written "painful". It's a very emotive term.
0:38:51 > 0:38:55There's quite a trend, I guess it's over 80% have actually expressed
0:38:55 > 0:38:59that, that, their visits are compromised because of the seating.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02So, you know, it's, we can't ignore - look,
0:39:02 > 0:39:07someone's written four times there, "Seats, seats, seats, seats!"
0:39:07 > 0:39:10You know, well, I can't ignore that sort of comment.
0:39:10 > 0:39:13What's important to point out at this stage is that, you know,
0:39:13 > 0:39:15I'm the new boy here, there's no history,
0:39:15 > 0:39:17I have no history with the building,
0:39:17 > 0:39:21I have to respect that history absolutely and in understanding
0:39:21 > 0:39:23those issues, we have to be very solution focused.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27Before Simon can act
0:39:27 > 0:39:30on his research, he needs to get the backing of the board.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33He wants to pick up on last year's replacement trial,
0:39:33 > 0:39:37but has estimated that replacing the box seats alone could cost
0:39:37 > 0:39:41£70,000 - money they don't have in reserve.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44I've been around for six months.
0:39:44 > 0:39:48I'm a newcomer to all of this. I'm making a proposal
0:39:48 > 0:39:50and I'm making a proposal that we agree to
0:39:50 > 0:39:52the principle of doing something here.
0:39:52 > 0:39:54Now, the devil is going to be in the detail.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57It is still a very live issue, so I'm really glad that
0:39:57 > 0:39:59the board is now, we're now looking at it.
0:39:59 > 0:40:01It's an issue we need to look at
0:40:01 > 0:40:04and from a PR perspective, I don't think there's anything wrong
0:40:04 > 0:40:06whatsoever with saying, "We're listening".
0:40:06 > 0:40:09As a new member, you find a paper of this nature on the agenda,
0:40:09 > 0:40:12you think, "Is this some sort of joke?" to be honest.
0:40:12 > 0:40:15The phrase "bums on seats" is well known,
0:40:15 > 0:40:19and sadly is fundamental to what we're doing.
0:40:19 > 0:40:22I think we could have a lot of fun with this as a solution,
0:40:22 > 0:40:27I think we could launch a sort of design-a-chair competition with local schools.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30Not that we'd have to have the children's design come to fruition!
0:40:30 > 0:40:34Don't forget we've already done a replacement trial
0:40:34 > 0:40:39and we did invite the public in and they did respond in their masses
0:40:39 > 0:40:43and what we got was 50-50 opinion, so it's not that simple, yeah?
0:40:43 > 0:40:48There, there's many a slip twixt cup and lip,
0:40:48 > 0:40:52but the actual design of the seat, although it's, kind of, process,
0:40:52 > 0:40:55is really, really difficult.
0:40:55 > 0:40:58But notwithstanding the technical issues. I think we can put that aside.
0:40:58 > 0:41:00Well, you can't...
0:41:00 > 0:41:03You could still, from the PR perspective of saying
0:41:03 > 0:41:06to the people of Bury, go to the Bury Free Press and have, you know,
0:41:06 > 0:41:10front-page news, "Come and help us", you know, do it on a massive scale,
0:41:10 > 0:41:15in a much more, erm, you know, inclusive way, is what I'm saying.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18Have we actually got a solution?
0:41:18 > 0:41:22Have we actually got seats that work, are comfortable,
0:41:22 > 0:41:24that the public like?
0:41:24 > 0:41:28Because, if we haven't, and I know you're, you're, you know, shaking your head,
0:41:28 > 0:41:31then all the talk about audience development and competitions
0:41:31 > 0:41:36are wrong because we could get it wrong twice.
0:41:36 > 0:41:37Yes.
0:41:37 > 0:41:41Um, we have got to proceed with a fundamental care,
0:41:41 > 0:41:45so much care, I am so scared, sitting around this table, and unless
0:41:45 > 0:41:50I've walked into the theatre and sat on the most fantastic seats.
0:41:51 > 0:41:53I agree with you a solution is product
0:41:53 > 0:41:57but actually in this situation I think that
0:41:57 > 0:42:02one of the solutions is the process. That's what we've missed out.
0:42:02 > 0:42:04Actually, that IS one of the solutions.
0:42:04 > 0:42:08But before we go into process I think we need a few products.
0:42:08 > 0:42:12I think we're, we're glad that the issue has been raised
0:42:12 > 0:42:17and I think the process will be absolutely as important as the,
0:42:17 > 0:42:22as the product, but we need a product first.
0:42:22 > 0:42:26So chicken and egg, we need to get that absolutely right,
0:42:26 > 0:42:31and the board will no doubt want to come and try any, any new seats as well.
0:42:31 > 0:42:34Sadly, that's no guarantee of it being successful!
0:42:34 > 0:42:36As we discovered last time.
0:42:36 > 0:42:38Indeed, indeed.
0:42:39 > 0:42:43If Simon needs 70 grand for new seats,
0:42:43 > 0:42:45one way of getting it could be making more money at the box office.
0:42:47 > 0:42:49Perhaps we should catch up.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52After considering a number of options, they've chosen
0:42:52 > 0:42:54their play for next spring,
0:42:54 > 0:42:58to be produced by Colin and trainee Polly Ingham.
0:42:58 > 0:43:02We looked around at what we had available and we went through
0:43:02 > 0:43:06a number of things but have finally lighted on a play called Stagefright,
0:43:06 > 0:43:09which is a very exciting thing to be able to do, because it's
0:43:09 > 0:43:14a world premiere of a brand new play, er, which looks at the relationship
0:43:14 > 0:43:18between a very famous actor of his time, Sir Henry Irving,
0:43:18 > 0:43:23and his assistant, one Bram Stoker, who then went on to write, um, Dracula, of course.
0:43:23 > 0:43:27The new play is written by an established contemporary playwright
0:43:27 > 0:43:30and was signed earlier in the year on the basis that Colin will direct.
0:43:30 > 0:43:34In the current climate, if somebody said to you,
0:43:34 > 0:43:38"Will you produce three new pieces of work one after the other?",
0:43:38 > 0:43:41you'd go, "No, you're mad."
0:43:41 > 0:43:45But, in fact, that's what we will have done by the end of March.
0:43:45 > 0:43:49Er, I'm quietly...
0:43:49 > 0:43:52but very definitely, proud of that.
0:43:52 > 0:43:56Because it's very easy to go over old ground.
0:43:56 > 0:43:58It's much harder and much more challenging,
0:43:58 > 0:44:01but ultimately much more rewarding for the audience,
0:44:01 > 0:44:03as well as for the practitioners,
0:44:03 > 0:44:07to be part of the creation of something brand-new,
0:44:07 > 0:44:11which could be the most exciting thing since sliced bread.
0:44:11 > 0:44:14Clearly, I thought giving him the opportunity
0:44:14 > 0:44:17of getting a name director to do something there,
0:44:17 > 0:44:20to bring in a name cast, was probably the best way to, you know,
0:44:20 > 0:44:23lift the visibility of the theatre
0:44:23 > 0:44:26and, you know, give it a production that might be able to go somewhere.
0:44:26 > 0:44:30He said he was going to do it and then they didn't.
0:44:30 > 0:44:33The new production that they're doing next year is directed by Colin
0:44:33 > 0:44:36and it's an unknown play and it doesn't have,
0:44:36 > 0:44:39at this stage, a name cast, or name anything, in it.
0:44:42 > 0:44:45'Meanwhile, Dick Turpin's on tour
0:44:45 > 0:44:47'to seven different cities and towns in six weeks.'
0:44:47 > 0:44:51# I'll drink to the game of high Toby
0:44:51 > 0:44:52# High Toby! #
0:44:52 > 0:44:55CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:44:55 > 0:44:58'Initial sales are slow.
0:44:58 > 0:45:02'But there are two reviews from leading national critics.'
0:45:02 > 0:45:06The Times' Libby Purves was in to see the show whilst it played here
0:45:06 > 0:45:09and she gave it four stars. She loved it, which is brilliant.
0:45:09 > 0:45:13And then, um, Lyn Gardner was in from The Guardian.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15She's a very careful journalist
0:45:15 > 0:45:18in looking at, at the way a piece comes across,
0:45:18 > 0:45:20but she still calls it "a ripping yarn,"
0:45:20 > 0:45:23and again, she gave it three stars.
0:45:23 > 0:45:25Hopefully that will help kick ticket sales.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34'But good reviews aren't always enough.'
0:45:34 > 0:45:38- What's the smallest we've had? About 25?- Yeah.
0:45:38 > 0:45:4325 people and you're talking three, four hundred-seaters, so...
0:45:44 > 0:45:48- Would you go and see a play about Dick Turpin?- No.
0:45:50 > 0:45:52I don't think we've ever, all of us,
0:45:52 > 0:45:55ever been in a show that has struggled so...
0:45:55 > 0:45:58It's got, it's got to be, I think, a reflection of the times, really.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01There's no spare money around. And if people are going to go to the theatre
0:46:01 > 0:46:05they'll probably go and see Billy Elliot or something like that,
0:46:05 > 0:46:08something that they know what they're getting rather than a new piece.
0:46:13 > 0:46:18'It's November, and the tour's got just a couple more venues to go.
0:46:19 > 0:46:23'I'm meeting Simon and Chris for a Dick Turpin "wash-up",
0:46:23 > 0:46:25'an analysis of the figures.'
0:46:25 > 0:46:28Just wanted to catch up on where you'd got on the ticket front?
0:46:28 > 0:46:31You know, the results for Dick Turpin.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34And, you know, how things are playing out.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37What did you finish up at? What was that percentage-wise?
0:46:37 > 0:46:38- 40...- 40...
0:46:38 > 0:46:42Overall we're looking at just short of 45%.
0:46:42 > 0:46:44- Right.- You know, of capacity.
0:46:44 > 0:46:49And the dream would have been 60, but, er, but it's a tough world.
0:46:49 > 0:46:50What about on the road?
0:46:50 > 0:46:52Audiences on the road were not brilliant
0:46:52 > 0:46:54but they were good in some of the venues as well.
0:46:54 > 0:46:56A couple of venues had very good audiences.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59What sort of impact is it going to have on, you know, the year?
0:46:59 > 0:47:01Well, in terms of...
0:47:01 > 0:47:04the audience have come away cheering it and wanting to see more.
0:47:04 > 0:47:06- No, no, what I...- In terms of...
0:47:06 > 0:47:09I just want to get a handle on...
0:47:09 > 0:47:12We're still on the road, so you can't tell that until...
0:47:12 > 0:47:15We can't tell the figures until we finish. We've got Ipswich...
0:47:15 > 0:47:16Talk to us in a fortnight
0:47:16 > 0:47:19and we'll tell you exactly what that position is.
0:47:19 > 0:47:23What do you think didn't work in terms of it?
0:47:23 > 0:47:27We need to be careful with phrases like "doesn't work,"
0:47:27 > 0:47:28you know, or "didn't work,"
0:47:28 > 0:47:32because artistically and creatively and critically the piece did work.
0:47:32 > 0:47:34Yeah, look, you know, I'm only talking about
0:47:34 > 0:47:38working in terms of, you had a bottom line which, you know,
0:47:38 > 0:47:40from your point of view and from the board's point of view,
0:47:40 > 0:47:43they clearly said, "We need to get this company...
0:47:43 > 0:47:47"We've done some difficult things over the course of the last year.
0:47:47 > 0:47:49"We need to get this company out of trouble".
0:47:49 > 0:47:53I guess the fact that your next new production
0:47:53 > 0:47:55- is Colin's next production. - Stagefright, yeah.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58You don't want the same result for Stagefright
0:47:58 > 0:48:01that you got for Dick Turpin. That would really put you under pressure.
0:48:01 > 0:48:04It's a quality piece, it's a great script.
0:48:04 > 0:48:06It's engaging and captivating
0:48:06 > 0:48:09and it's got all those elements of good entertaining,
0:48:09 > 0:48:11entertaining theatre. It's accessible.
0:48:11 > 0:48:13As a piece, as a piece of theatre,
0:48:13 > 0:48:15it speaks about what this organisation is
0:48:15 > 0:48:18and how it cares about quality drama for its local audiences.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20It ticks all the boxes as far as I'm concerned.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23Just to take a safe programme in line to say,
0:48:23 > 0:48:25"We're going to open for eight months of the year.
0:48:25 > 0:48:26"We're going to do the, sort of,
0:48:26 > 0:48:31"the potboilers, light entertainment stuff." We would lose funding.
0:48:31 > 0:48:35Oh, no, I admire your pluck. I'm like...do...you know,
0:48:35 > 0:48:39I just think the reality is, you know, you're heading into,
0:48:39 > 0:48:43you know, another year where you are very much on the edge,
0:48:43 > 0:48:48and unless you've got some magic and you've got some sure-fire success,
0:48:48 > 0:48:50the challenges are very big.
0:48:50 > 0:48:54Adventurous programming often gets the biggest audience.
0:48:54 > 0:48:57So we know that we have an audience that wants to come out
0:48:57 > 0:49:00and see exciting stuff. Event theatre, whatever it might be.
0:49:00 > 0:49:02So Colin's trying to do that balancing
0:49:02 > 0:49:05between finding things that are exciting
0:49:05 > 0:49:08but also finding things that feel familiar to the audience
0:49:08 > 0:49:11so that they feel they know what they're coming into and that...
0:49:11 > 0:49:13if there was a problem with Dick Turpin,
0:49:13 > 0:49:15people didn't really know what they were coming in to.
0:49:17 > 0:49:20OK. Thanks, guys.
0:49:22 > 0:49:26'A fortnight later, the final result for Dick Turpin ticket sales
0:49:26 > 0:49:31'is £70,000 - a total loss of 30,000.'
0:49:31 > 0:49:33We just called it wrong.
0:49:33 > 0:49:36Turpin isn't the name that we thought it was going to be,
0:49:36 > 0:49:40and I'm quite happy to hold up my hands and say "We got it wrong".
0:49:40 > 0:49:43We're incredibly proud of the piece of work,
0:49:43 > 0:49:48but sadly that pride doesn't get reflected on the balance sheet.
0:49:49 > 0:49:53'One big advantage of Stagefright is it only has two roles,
0:49:53 > 0:49:57'so it'll keep the wage bill down, and is a great opportunity
0:49:57 > 0:50:00'to try and secure named actors without blowing the budget.'
0:50:00 > 0:50:05In my experience as a programmer and a theatre manager,
0:50:05 > 0:50:08good thrillers are always really well-attended.
0:50:08 > 0:50:11This is a good thriller.
0:50:11 > 0:50:14It's about Bram Stoker and Henry Irving.
0:50:14 > 0:50:17Certainly, most people will have heard of Bram Stoker
0:50:17 > 0:50:20as the creator of Dracula.
0:50:20 > 0:50:22And so I think it's got stuff going for it
0:50:22 > 0:50:25that will persuade people to come and see it.
0:50:25 > 0:50:30'Colin and Polly are in London to discuss possible actors
0:50:30 > 0:50:33'with the play's writer, Michael Punter.'
0:50:33 > 0:50:36Like I say to everybody, whenever we talk about famous names,
0:50:36 > 0:50:40I'm out of my depth. I don't really know many people.
0:50:40 > 0:50:44Jason Watkins. Fantastic actor.
0:50:44 > 0:50:47I don't know who he is. Who else have you got?
0:50:47 > 0:50:50Oh, Simon Greenall. Simon Green...
0:50:51 > 0:50:53I don't know him, either.
0:50:53 > 0:50:56My thoughts on this, and I haven't been able to get them out of my head
0:50:56 > 0:51:00- since I thought of them, is Alistair McGowan.- Yeah.
0:51:00 > 0:51:03I realise, the more we talk about name casting,
0:51:03 > 0:51:05the less I know about it.
0:51:05 > 0:51:07I tend not to know very many famous people.
0:51:07 > 0:51:11The person who's quite like that,
0:51:11 > 0:51:15in terms of being a comedian who acts, is Russ Abbott.
0:51:15 > 0:51:17There is a little thing inside me that says,
0:51:17 > 0:51:22"You are a representative of a small regional theatre,
0:51:22 > 0:51:28"going to agents of big national
0:51:28 > 0:51:30"or international celebrities, going,
0:51:30 > 0:51:37'Please come and work with us.'" And however much I convince myself
0:51:37 > 0:51:39that I'm perfectly justified in doing that,
0:51:39 > 0:51:43there's a little bit of me that says, "You've got to be joking".
0:51:43 > 0:51:48This is a conversation held in hope more than expectation.
0:51:50 > 0:51:54'As winter draws in, advance tickets for the spring season go on sale.'
0:51:54 > 0:51:57Stagefright hasn't got friends discount on,
0:51:57 > 0:51:59so they're going to be 16.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02So there's no friends discount because it's a preview night.
0:52:02 > 0:52:05'Hopefully, over the next few weeks,
0:52:05 > 0:52:10'Stagefright will start to do some box office magic.
0:52:10 > 0:52:14'It's my last day in Bury St Edmunds, and before I leave,
0:52:14 > 0:52:17'I'm intrigued to hear how Colin sees the future of the theatre.'
0:52:20 > 0:52:23# No point competing You can get eaten
0:52:23 > 0:52:25# Under the sea... #
0:52:25 > 0:52:28'He's in rehearsals for the panto.
0:52:28 > 0:52:32'He writes and directs the festive box office smash most years,
0:52:32 > 0:52:35'delivering the most significant chunk of annual ticket sales.'
0:52:35 > 0:52:37# Yes, I am the one with the dorsal fin... #
0:52:37 > 0:52:42'But I really hope, that as well as being good for their reputation,
0:52:42 > 0:52:44'Stagefright also brings in a profit.'
0:52:44 > 0:52:46# Right here on the ocean floor
0:52:46 > 0:52:48# Under the sea
0:52:49 > 0:52:51# Under the sea
0:52:52 > 0:52:55# Here in the ocean Such a commotion
0:52:55 > 0:52:57# No time for tea. #
0:52:57 > 0:53:00The first point I wanted to make
0:53:00 > 0:53:03is that there's potentially a problem
0:53:03 > 0:53:06in terms of the nature of, you know, a new play
0:53:06 > 0:53:10off the back of, you know, a number of other new plays,
0:53:10 > 0:53:14that you need to start stacking the dice a little bit in your favour.
0:53:14 > 0:53:16One of the things about the idea
0:53:16 > 0:53:21of being able to cast up, say, Stagefright, with name actors,
0:53:21 > 0:53:25can help make that production into something that gives you
0:53:25 > 0:53:29a great opportunity to kick off some of the disappointments
0:53:29 > 0:53:34and the difficulties. I really do think you should push hard to,
0:53:34 > 0:53:36you know, to try and find those people.
0:53:36 > 0:53:41We will try for as long and as hard as we can to make that work
0:53:41 > 0:53:44but we have to do the production, come what may.
0:53:44 > 0:53:48What do you really like doing? Do you like directing?
0:53:48 > 0:53:51Do you like writing? Do you like running theatre companies?
0:53:51 > 0:53:54I like doing all three.
0:53:54 > 0:53:58Er, I like writing more and more.
0:53:58 > 0:54:01I like managing less and less.
0:54:01 > 0:54:06And directing...I have a love-hate relationship with it.
0:54:06 > 0:54:08I love it when it's going well
0:54:08 > 0:54:12and there's a moment in every production where I go,
0:54:12 > 0:54:14"I never want to do this again".
0:54:14 > 0:54:18My concern, probably, is that, in the decisions that you've made
0:54:18 > 0:54:23in the last year, you know, allowing, you know,
0:54:23 > 0:54:26the choice of, you know, a new chief executive to come in,
0:54:26 > 0:54:31cutting your own team, cutting your own time back,
0:54:31 > 0:54:35that to some extent, I get the feeling that you're in limbo.
0:54:35 > 0:54:40The idea that you are very much the artistic guider of the organisation.
0:54:40 > 0:54:42I think that's hard to do.
0:54:42 > 0:54:45Three days a week alongside all the other things that you're doing.
0:54:45 > 0:54:46I agree with that.
0:54:46 > 0:54:51And so my view would be, probably, you know,
0:54:51 > 0:54:53you said your focus wanted to be writing and directing.
0:54:53 > 0:54:55That's what I'd be doing.
0:54:56 > 0:54:59If I were to walk away now,
0:54:59 > 0:55:05it would cost an awful lot more to replace the functions that I fulfil.
0:55:05 > 0:55:11Because then they'd have to pay for directors, writers,
0:55:11 > 0:55:13artistic directors, programmers.
0:55:13 > 0:55:16They'd have, you know, they'd have to find a different way
0:55:16 > 0:55:23of structuring that, which, er, which would inevitably cost more.
0:55:23 > 0:55:26Yeah, but I don't think that can just motivate, you know,
0:55:26 > 0:55:28your thinking on that.
0:55:28 > 0:55:31From that point of view, they'll have to solve that problem.
0:55:31 > 0:55:35You know, it's one of the problems, the "hit by the bus" syndrome.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38You know, if it happens, you've got to deal with it.
0:55:41 > 0:55:44Isn't there an ABBA song that goes, "Should I stay or should I go?"
0:55:44 > 0:55:48Uh, yeah, no. I mean, those are the things I think about all the time,
0:55:48 > 0:55:52and have done ever since I started, because that's...
0:55:53 > 0:55:54..that's the job.
0:55:54 > 0:55:58You can only stay as long as you're doing...
0:55:58 > 0:56:00..the right sort of thing,
0:56:00 > 0:56:06and so I'm acutely aware that the sell-by date exists.
0:56:06 > 0:56:08The trouble is, I don't when it is.
0:56:11 > 0:56:14FAIRGROUND MUSIC CHIMES
0:56:20 > 0:56:22'There's no doubt that the theatre's team
0:56:22 > 0:56:26'are absolutely dedicated to keeping this small gem going,
0:56:26 > 0:56:27'and I really hope they succeed.
0:56:27 > 0:56:29'But the future for Theatre Royal,
0:56:29 > 0:56:34'and other small theatres like it, remains as uncertain as ever.'
0:56:37 > 0:56:39# Half the population's dead
0:56:39 > 0:56:41# Our lives are filled with constant dread
0:56:41 > 0:56:44# Here on the Highgate Hill we're safe
0:56:44 > 0:56:46# Away from the rats and the smelly sewers... #
0:56:46 > 0:56:51The challenges are still very real and very present for them.
0:56:54 > 0:56:57I fundamentally think it's probably up to Simon,
0:56:57 > 0:57:01what Simon's going to do, what decision Colin's going to make,
0:57:01 > 0:57:06you know, to be able to make sure that they address the challenges
0:57:06 > 0:57:10and get themselves back into a position of some stability.
0:57:12 > 0:57:16If small theatre goes, big theatre's in trouble.
0:57:16 > 0:57:20It's bad for the whole theatre ecology.
0:57:20 > 0:57:23All the people that rely on it for a livelihood.
0:57:23 > 0:57:25And I think that's an incredible waste
0:57:25 > 0:57:29of something you've built up over, you know, hundreds of years.
0:57:31 > 0:57:33These are fragile ecosystems.
0:57:33 > 0:57:36And, you know, if you don't actually look after them
0:57:36 > 0:57:40and you don't support them, they're not going to be there in,
0:57:40 > 0:57:42you know, five or ten years' time.
0:57:42 > 0:57:45CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:58:22 > 0:58:24Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd