0:00:02 > 0:00:03This is Hilary Devey's empire -
0:00:03 > 0:00:08an international haulage network with £100 million a year turnover.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11I built this business in the most male-dominated sector
0:00:11 > 0:00:14you could ever imagine.
0:00:14 > 0:00:18I did not let being a woman stand in my way.
0:00:19 > 0:00:22If I can do it, why can't every woman do it?
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Today, women make up half of Britain's workforce,
0:00:27 > 0:00:31but fewer than one in five of the most senior roles.
0:00:31 > 0:00:36I see it every day - businesses are dominated by men in grey suits.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38It's time for a change.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41Last time, Hilary witnessed the exodus of women
0:00:41 > 0:00:43from the management pyramid,
0:00:43 > 0:00:45leaving only a few to make it to the top.
0:00:45 > 0:00:47It's a shocking waste of talent.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49It's bad for the women and for our economy.
0:00:49 > 0:00:53And she discovered how mixed-gender teams can mean more profit.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56It's better for us as a business to have gender balance,
0:00:56 > 0:00:59because we get five percent better business results.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Now, Hilary is seeking solutions
0:01:01 > 0:01:03to transform the prospects of working women.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07She'll be investigating ways to bring women into key roles...
0:01:07 > 0:01:10We need to smash - that is the right word -
0:01:10 > 0:01:12what is an all-male society.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17..asking what companies can do to keep climbing the career ladder...
0:01:17 > 0:01:20I do have guilt, but I don't have it constantly
0:01:20 > 0:01:24and I don't spend every day making very difficult choices.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28..and transforming her own business from the shop floor up.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31The more I think about it, the better it'll be,
0:01:31 > 0:01:34because it's the perfect job for a woman.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37I want to find solutions whether they come from government,
0:01:37 > 0:01:40from men, from women, from company bosses.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44I want solutions that will deliver the goods.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57Hilary Devey has been finding out
0:01:57 > 0:02:00what's stopping women from getting to the top.
0:02:00 > 0:02:05What she's discovered has challenged some of her own deeply-held beliefs.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09When I started on this journey, I tended to think that...
0:02:09 > 0:02:11if women really wanted it,
0:02:11 > 0:02:15why can't they go out and get it? Because I did.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20But the more I've looked into it, there are things that husbands,
0:02:20 > 0:02:24boyfriends, whatever can do to help, things that companies can do to help.
0:02:24 > 0:02:30To develop solutions, Hilary opened up her logistics company, Pall-Ex,
0:02:30 > 0:02:31to a gender expert.
0:02:31 > 0:02:36She discovered a lack of women in key areas of the business,
0:02:36 > 0:02:38including the Board of Directors.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41- A pretty male-dominated leadership team.- Yeah.
0:02:41 > 0:02:42Why, do you think?
0:02:42 > 0:02:47I think it's about people who present themselves for interview.
0:02:47 > 0:02:53Ten men sit on the Pall-Ex board and only one woman - Hilary herself.
0:02:53 > 0:02:57This gender imbalance could be affecting the bottom line.
0:02:57 > 0:03:01Today, companies that are more gender-balanced simply deliver
0:03:01 > 0:03:03better financial results than those that aren't.
0:03:03 > 0:03:07It was like a bolt of lightning after meeting with Avivah.
0:03:07 > 0:03:12Because I then started to look at the profit per department,
0:03:12 > 0:03:16and what I actually discovered is that the most profitable department
0:03:16 > 0:03:21that we have has got a gender balance of 50-50.
0:03:21 > 0:03:26Mixed gender departments do produce more profit.
0:03:26 > 0:03:27It is absolutely fact.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31Now, Hilary is heading to Pall-Ex
0:03:31 > 0:03:34to discuss the lack of women on her board.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37Together with her managing director, Adrian Russell,
0:03:37 > 0:03:41she decides to raise the issue with the other senior company directors.
0:03:41 > 0:03:46So I think that we put it on our agenda for the next board meeting.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48I mean, this won't happen overnight.
0:03:48 > 0:03:49It's going to be transitional
0:03:49 > 0:03:53and it might be a have a five-year timescale,
0:03:53 > 0:03:57but we ought to try and focus to get more females on our main board.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00You're right. I think the whole board needs to engage with that
0:04:00 > 0:04:03and see the challenges and opportunities presented.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06What we can't do is actually say to our directors,
0:04:06 > 0:04:08"Well, we're now going to replace you with women,"
0:04:08 > 0:04:10and we wouldn't want to do that anyway,
0:04:10 > 0:04:13but we ought to start thinking ahead to the future,
0:04:13 > 0:04:17or, if we do see a board position becoming vacant,
0:04:17 > 0:04:20then try to get more of a mixed gender on it.
0:04:20 > 0:04:25- It's basically to look again at our succession planning.- Yeah.- OK.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29I'd love more of a gender-mixed board at Pall-Ex.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Most definitely.
0:04:31 > 0:04:33But that's a longer-term issue to address,
0:04:33 > 0:04:37because I can't suddenly say to all of our male board members,
0:04:37 > 0:04:39"Sorry, there's no place for you on our board any more,
0:04:39 > 0:04:41"as I need to replace you with females."
0:04:41 > 0:04:45So it's not going to happen overnight
0:04:45 > 0:04:48and I don't believe we're an unusual company in that respect.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52But at least I can honestly say my eyes are open to it
0:04:52 > 0:04:56and I will be addressing it for succession planning in the future.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00The lack of women on the board isn't just a problem facing Pall-Ex.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03Women hold fewer than one in five boardroom jobs
0:05:03 > 0:05:05in Britain's biggest companies.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07While businesses look for their own solutions,
0:05:07 > 0:05:12one idea promises to break up the male monopoly overnight -
0:05:12 > 0:05:13female quotas.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17To learn more,
0:05:17 > 0:05:20Hilary is embarking on a foreign fact-finding mission.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23I'm just putting a few things into the case now,
0:05:23 > 0:05:26just something formal for a meeting and something very warm,
0:05:26 > 0:05:30because I think it's going to be very, very cold.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33Hilary is heading to Norway.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36Controversially, the country has adopted a quota law,
0:05:36 > 0:05:40forcing all major companies to have at least 40% women on their boards.
0:05:40 > 0:05:42DOG YAPS
0:05:42 > 0:05:47Hilary wants to know if quotas are the right solution for the UK.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49I'm looking forward to going to Norway,
0:05:49 > 0:05:52because I want to find out more about the quota legislation.
0:05:52 > 0:05:56I don't necessarily agree, at this moment in time,
0:05:56 > 0:05:58with mandatory quota legislation
0:05:58 > 0:06:02but I'm going to go, I'm going to look,
0:06:02 > 0:06:04I'm going to hear, I'm going to use both ears
0:06:04 > 0:06:08and very little of my mouth, because what I want to do is learn.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17With a population of five million people,
0:06:17 > 0:06:20Norway has grown rich on male-dominated industries
0:06:20 > 0:06:23like oil exploration and fishing.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25But this rugged land of fjords and forests
0:06:25 > 0:06:29has also embraced its feminine side.
0:06:29 > 0:06:33Mothers benefit from almost a year's maternity leave at full pay,
0:06:33 > 0:06:37state-funded nurseries and, thanks to its quota law,
0:06:37 > 0:06:42women account for 44% of the boards of public companies.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44However, as a successful entrepreneur,
0:06:44 > 0:06:48Hilary is sceptical about quota legislation.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51Personally, as a commercial businesswoman,
0:06:51 > 0:06:56I would hate the thought of quotas being imposed,
0:06:56 > 0:07:01because there's a certain ring of tokenism to it.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07Hilary is heading to the place where the quota started -
0:07:07 > 0:07:09the Norwegian Parliament.
0:07:12 > 0:07:14# Come on, baby, light my fire... #
0:07:15 > 0:07:19She's meeting the person who pioneered the law,
0:07:19 > 0:07:23not just a conservative politician, but also a man.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28Hilary wants to know how he became a champion of the women's cause.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31So, Ansgar, are you a feminist?
0:07:31 > 0:07:33No, I've never been a feminist
0:07:33 > 0:07:38and I'm not a feminist. That was not the main reason why I did it.
0:07:38 > 0:07:44If the quota legislation was not about feminism, what was it about?
0:07:44 > 0:07:48We had a debate in the middle of the '90s about women in the boards.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53The fact was that only six percent of the member of the boards
0:07:53 > 0:07:55in public companies were women.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58The government and the Parliament had used billions and billions
0:07:58 > 0:08:02to educate our daughters over the last 30 years
0:08:02 > 0:08:08and they were kept out of a very, very important arena,
0:08:08 > 0:08:13so, for me, it was very much, "Let us use the whole population
0:08:13 > 0:08:16"to the most important thing in the society."
0:08:16 > 0:08:20In 2002, Trade Minister Gabrielsen announced in a newspaper interview
0:08:20 > 0:08:23he was introducing the boardroom quota.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27Incredibly, he hadn't consulted his government colleagues.
0:08:27 > 0:08:29No-one knew about it.
0:08:29 > 0:08:32I had not been talking with the Prime Minister,
0:08:32 > 0:08:35not with any in the party leadership.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38How did you do that? How can you...?
0:08:38 > 0:08:42Well, I had been in politics for more than 25 years
0:08:42 > 0:08:44at that time, in 2002,
0:08:44 > 0:08:47and I had always been a good liar.
0:08:47 > 0:08:53Now, I had the idea to do a revolution
0:08:53 > 0:08:57and if you want to do a revolution, you do it the revolution way.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59# Come on, baby, light my fire... #
0:08:59 > 0:09:03The quota law hasn't just sparked a revolution in Norway.
0:09:03 > 0:09:07Countries like Spain and France have adopted the same approach
0:09:07 > 0:09:09and the EU is now considering imposing a quota
0:09:09 > 0:09:12across the whole of Europe, including Britain.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15You know that, for myself,
0:09:15 > 0:09:17I made it always very clear.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20I am not fond of quotas.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24But I very much like what quotas do
0:09:24 > 0:09:28and maybe it's necessary to do what quotas do.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31With a quota law looming on the horizon,
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Hilary wants to find out how it's benefited Norwegian business.
0:09:35 > 0:09:40She's meeting a woman who sits on the board of four public companies.
0:09:40 > 0:09:45In your opinion, how do women operate differently from men
0:09:45 > 0:09:46in a boardroom environment?
0:09:46 > 0:09:52In my experience, they are more brave to ask questions,
0:09:52 > 0:09:55maybe the difficult questions, maybe the stupid questions
0:09:55 > 0:09:59and they are coming also from another angle into business
0:09:59 > 0:10:01and I think that is very healthy.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04But what is most important, in my view,
0:10:04 > 0:10:08is to balance the different experiences and the different views.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12It is of utmost importance in the boardroom.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15Norway's boardrooms may be more balanced,
0:10:15 > 0:10:17but the people who run the companies day-to-day -
0:10:17 > 0:10:21the chief executives - are mostly male.
0:10:21 > 0:10:25So, from your perspective, you feel the quota has worked,
0:10:25 > 0:10:28and it's worked successfully for Norway?
0:10:28 > 0:10:31Yes, I do think it works.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34But only 2% of CEOs...
0:10:35 > 0:10:37..are female.
0:10:37 > 0:10:38Yeah, that's true.
0:10:38 > 0:10:43So the quota legislation has not helped them get to the top, has it?
0:10:43 > 0:10:48- But it will. It will. - When?- It takes some years.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51We will see more women in top positions
0:10:51 > 0:10:55but this is also a kind of way of encouraging this
0:10:55 > 0:10:57and I think it's necessary.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00Despite Norway's boardroom revolution,
0:11:00 > 0:11:04some argue that quotas won't solve the lack of women in senior roles.
0:11:04 > 0:11:09The most relevant criticism of the quota is that it has failed,
0:11:09 > 0:11:13to some degree - at least failed to radically increase
0:11:13 > 0:11:15the number of female senior executives.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17There is some movement, but it's slow
0:11:17 > 0:11:19and I believe the reason for that
0:11:19 > 0:11:22is that you can't solve that challenge, top-down.
0:11:22 > 0:11:24You have to change it, bottom-up.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28That's where childcare and sharing parental leave, etc, comes in.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31I believe those measures are more effective.
0:11:33 > 0:11:36In Norway, they're not just focusing at the top,
0:11:36 > 0:11:40they're also developing solutions to help every woman with a career.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44One idea is shared parental leave after the birth of a child.
0:11:44 > 0:11:48In many countries, parental leave is geared towards mothers.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51Long periods off work can disrupt their careers
0:11:51 > 0:11:54and create prejudice among employees.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56In Norway, mums and dads
0:11:56 > 0:11:59are encouraged to share the leave equally.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03Sinna Dokka took seven months leave after the birth of her daughter.
0:12:03 > 0:12:07Now she's gone back to work, passing the childcare to her partner.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09I think I have always had the idea that
0:12:09 > 0:12:11I would want to combine a family and a career.
0:12:11 > 0:12:12But now, having a family,
0:12:12 > 0:12:16I wouldn't say it's impossible but it's demanding.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19In that perspective, it's important to have a partner who is supportive
0:12:19 > 0:12:22and actually interested in sharing the responsibility.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25'My partner had her plans for her career,'
0:12:25 > 0:12:29and they were as important for her as my plans are for me
0:12:29 > 0:12:33and, in that sense, it feels quite natural for both of us to share responsibilities.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37Norwegian dads are encouraged to take at least three months parental leave
0:12:37 > 0:12:41but this can be extended to ten months at full pay.
0:12:41 > 0:12:46Trygve, who's a doctor, is taking nearly five months off from his job.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50'When I first said that I was going to be a dad for the first time,
0:12:50 > 0:12:52'I was congratulated by my boss
0:12:52 > 0:12:55'and a few weeks later, we had a discussion
0:12:55 > 0:12:58'about how we were going to organise the leave at work.'
0:12:58 > 0:13:00And, fortunately for me, all the people -
0:13:00 > 0:13:02both my colleagues and my boss -
0:13:02 > 0:13:06were all happy about a dad wanting to stay at home a bit longer.
0:13:07 > 0:13:09# The night we met
0:13:09 > 0:13:11# I knew I
0:13:11 > 0:13:13# I needed you so... #
0:13:16 > 0:13:18Sharing parental leave
0:13:18 > 0:13:21means women take less time out from the workplace,
0:13:21 > 0:13:24while the men master the fine arts of childcare.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26# Be my
0:13:26 > 0:13:27# Be my baby
0:13:27 > 0:13:29# Be my little baby
0:13:31 > 0:13:33# Be my baby love
0:13:35 > 0:13:37# Be my baby now... #
0:13:37 > 0:13:39In Norway, 90% of men
0:13:39 > 0:13:42now take at least three months parental leave.
0:13:42 > 0:13:48In the UK, only 40% of men take their two-week entitlement.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50For this new generation of Nordic men,
0:13:50 > 0:13:53sharing the childcare is part of creating a more equal society.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56Sure, it makes the total period of time you're off work
0:13:56 > 0:13:59more acceptable for both employers,
0:13:59 > 0:14:00both for the man and the woman.
0:14:00 > 0:14:02It's going to be down to less than half a year.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05It's not a question of hurting one career, or the other,
0:14:05 > 0:14:07it's going to be acceptable on both sides.
0:14:07 > 0:14:12Some believe that shared parental leave, rather than boardroom quotas,
0:14:12 > 0:14:16is a better solution to helping women in their careers.
0:14:16 > 0:14:17May be the biggest effect
0:14:17 > 0:14:19is that it's become very acceptable for men
0:14:19 > 0:14:22to also be away from the workforce and when you employ somebody,
0:14:22 > 0:14:24it's not automatic that you look at a woman
0:14:24 > 0:14:29and think, "She'll be gone twice in the next few years for a year's time
0:14:29 > 0:14:32"and this man I could hire, he won't."
0:14:32 > 0:14:35You have a more equal expectation of that now, which is a good thing.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39Back in Britain, the government is now considering plans
0:14:39 > 0:14:44to introduce Scandinavian-style system of shared parental leave.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47At the moment, paternity leave is very, very limited indeed.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50The coalition government is committed to setting up
0:14:50 > 0:14:51a system in this Parliament,
0:14:51 > 0:14:53which will move us much more
0:14:53 > 0:14:56in what you call the Norwegian direction.
0:14:56 > 0:15:02The new proposals could mean fathers being entitled to nine months parental leave
0:15:02 > 0:15:04after the birth of a child.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07In order to make that happen, we have to match them to employers,
0:15:07 > 0:15:10we have to get this fully computerised.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13This is complicated, but what we're doing at the moment
0:15:13 > 0:15:17is creating a legal framework within which this can happen.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22Some business leaders think such a system could have a big impact
0:15:22 > 0:15:26on Britain's 4.5 million small companies.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29It seems to me there are some pluses for the children of these parents
0:15:29 > 0:15:32but clearly, if you're running a small or medium-sized enterprise,
0:15:32 > 0:15:35it is more difficult because you have to recognise
0:15:35 > 0:15:37these companies may only employ 10 or 15 people.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40If, at any one time, two or three of them are not there,
0:15:40 > 0:15:41that's 30% of the workforce.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43That will add cost, therefore, to the business
0:15:43 > 0:15:45and they will lose experience as well.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48You know, if I were a small business owner, I'd be worried.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53Following her trip to Norway, Hilary has been reflecting
0:15:53 > 0:15:56on the Scandinavian model of shared parental leave.
0:15:56 > 0:16:00Bye, bye.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04She's also worried about the impact it could have on British business.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08Small to medium enterprises, that are generally privately-owned companies,
0:16:08 > 0:16:11just would not function. It would see the demise of them.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15As they make up 86% of our economy,
0:16:15 > 0:16:19I think it would be a rather silly decision to make.
0:16:19 > 0:16:21Instead of changing parental leave,
0:16:21 > 0:16:25Hilary wants to focus on the problems facing women
0:16:25 > 0:16:27when they return to their careers.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31She thinks it's time for businesses to develop solutions.
0:16:31 > 0:16:37Two, three, or even four-year sabbatical for a tour of motherhood
0:16:37 > 0:16:41is a very short period in a woman's working life.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45Most women now will be working until they are 60, 65.
0:16:45 > 0:16:50Two to four years is a fraction of their working life
0:16:50 > 0:16:52and I think employers should think more laterally
0:16:52 > 0:16:54and think more like that.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57Because, if they create the right environment,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59those women will want to return.
0:17:01 > 0:17:05Ruby McGregor-Smith is one of the most successful businesswomen in Britain.
0:17:05 > 0:17:09She agrees that companies play a vital role in helping women
0:17:09 > 0:17:11balance their careers with motherhood.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13Today, Ruby is at an event
0:17:13 > 0:17:16to inspire the next generation of business leaders.
0:17:16 > 0:17:20Our next speaker has worked her way all the way up to the top.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23Ruby McGregor-Smith.
0:17:23 > 0:17:24APPLAUSE
0:17:24 > 0:17:28So a little bit about me, I grew up in North London.
0:17:28 > 0:17:30My parents came here when I was one...
0:17:30 > 0:17:33As the boss of MITIE, an outsourcing company
0:17:33 > 0:17:35that employs more than 60,000 people,
0:17:35 > 0:17:40Ruby is one of only ten female chief executives in the FTSE 250.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42What young people today need to hear
0:17:42 > 0:17:45is that you can achieve and you can do well.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48You need confidence sometimes and it's important hear from people like me
0:17:48 > 0:17:52that it is possible, if you work really hard, to do well.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54Ruby may have reached the top,
0:17:54 > 0:17:56but she knows all about the challenge of balancing work
0:17:56 > 0:17:58with raising a young family.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00After the birth of her second child,
0:18:00 > 0:18:04she took a two-year break from her high-flying career.
0:18:04 > 0:18:05It gave me some time,
0:18:05 > 0:18:07it gave me some space that meant I wasn't so tired.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09Sleepless nights are never great,
0:18:09 > 0:18:12it's never great to combine sleepless nights with a big career
0:18:12 > 0:18:16and once all that had settled down, you know, that was really good.
0:18:16 > 0:18:19When Ruby decided to relaunch her career,
0:18:19 > 0:18:22she knew finding an understanding employer was vital.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25I had a very supportive employer when I joined MITIE.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27My chief executive was hugely supportive
0:18:27 > 0:18:28of the fact that I had a young family.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31That really made a huge difference.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34I think, for women that do want to have both a career
0:18:34 > 0:18:37and bring up a family, they absolutely need the right support
0:18:37 > 0:18:41and they absolutely need not just the right support at home,
0:18:41 > 0:18:43they need the right support in the workplace.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45I think more mentors, more support
0:18:45 > 0:18:47and more understanding in the workplace
0:18:47 > 0:18:50will definitely get more of them to consider coming back
0:18:50 > 0:18:53and having a career, because they believe they will be supported to do both.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55That really does matter.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59Some of the UK's biggest companies are trying to find solutions
0:18:59 > 0:19:02to help women balance their careers with childcare.
0:19:02 > 0:19:08The Ford Motor Company hasn't always had the easiest relationship with its female workers.
0:19:08 > 0:19:09What are you striking about?
0:19:09 > 0:19:13At the moment, we're B grade, which is a labourer
0:19:13 > 0:19:17and we think we should have C grade, which is skilled labour.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22In the 1960s,
0:19:22 > 0:19:26the company tried to cut the pay of women working at its Dagenham plant.
0:19:26 > 0:19:30The resulting walkout brought production to a halt.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33Today, Ford has certainly moved on.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36It's trying to address a problem facing many working mothers -
0:19:36 > 0:19:40finding affordable childcare facilities.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43For Hilary, it's one of the biggest issues women face
0:19:43 > 0:19:45when restarting their careers.
0:19:45 > 0:19:49What we've got to try and do, as a country, as employers,
0:19:49 > 0:19:54as the government of the country, is try and make them returning back
0:19:54 > 0:19:57into the working environment as easy as possible
0:19:57 > 0:20:00and the biggest stumbling block to get women back into the workplace
0:20:00 > 0:20:04is childcare and the cost of childcare.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08Ford's research centre in Dunton, Essex,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11has its own dedicated creche facility.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15Thanks to her employer, engineer Wendy Graham's morning routine
0:20:15 > 0:20:17is a well-oiled machine.
0:20:17 > 0:20:21Well, my morning alarm sometimes is a little girl coming in at 5:30,
0:20:21 > 0:20:24before the alarm goes off, so I have my shower, I get dressed.
0:20:24 > 0:20:29We have some porridge and we leave the house by 6:45.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31Good girl.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33After the birth of her daughter, Amelie,
0:20:33 > 0:20:36Wendy took 12 months maternity leave.
0:20:36 > 0:20:37Time to go.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40But she was keen to return full-time to her job
0:20:40 > 0:20:42as an engineering manager.
0:20:45 > 0:20:51I work in a very male-dominated engineering environment.
0:20:51 > 0:20:55I was the only female manager in my organisation
0:20:55 > 0:21:00and I felt that it was important that I returned to work
0:21:00 > 0:21:02without any compromises.
0:21:02 > 0:21:04Amelie goes to nursery five days a week.
0:21:04 > 0:21:08Nursery opens at 7:15 and we're normally one of the first there.
0:21:08 > 0:21:13And by 7:30, latest, I'm at my desk.
0:21:13 > 0:21:17For many parents, the morning rush-hour means shuttling between nursery and the office
0:21:17 > 0:21:20but Wendy's mornings are stress-free,
0:21:20 > 0:21:22because she only needs to make one trip.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25OK, here we go. Where are we?
0:21:25 > 0:21:26- Nearly.- Nearly.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30Wendy still has to pay to use the in-house creche,
0:21:30 > 0:21:33but as the running costs and site are subsidised by Ford,
0:21:33 > 0:21:36it's cheaper than a private facility.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38Here we are!
0:21:38 > 0:21:39Get your bag.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42Even more valuable for time-poor parents
0:21:42 > 0:21:45is the convenience of having their children nearby.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47I don't worry about my childcare.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51From the minute I leave the nursery, I'm in work mode.
0:21:51 > 0:21:52- Morning, Christine.- Morning!
0:21:52 > 0:21:56I can drop Amelie off, I can be at my desk in five minutes.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59Likewise, at the end of the day, I can be up here in five minutes.
0:21:59 > 0:22:04So the challenges of motherhood and having a career
0:22:04 > 0:22:08are really minimised by having the on-site provision.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11Who are you going to play with today, Amelie?
0:22:11 > 0:22:13Ford says there are good commercial reasons
0:22:13 > 0:22:16for providing subsidised childcare.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19Because we have a variety of different provisions for our working parents,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22this translates into higher levels of engagement,
0:22:22 > 0:22:23higher levels of satisfaction
0:22:23 > 0:22:25and a more positive working atmosphere.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28This is something that is good for business,
0:22:28 > 0:22:31this is good for us to provide as a favourable employer.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35Wendy shares the drop-off and picking-up duties
0:22:35 > 0:22:37with her husband, who also works at Ford.
0:22:37 > 0:22:41It means she can fit in last-minute meetings, or work trips.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45I have been able to combine family life with working life,
0:22:45 > 0:22:48with minimal stress and it means that
0:22:48 > 0:22:53I am overall equal to a working employee
0:22:53 > 0:22:55that doesn't have children.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58- CHRIS EVANS ON THE RADIO:- '7:31, it's going to be quite nice today.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01'We played this last week and people loved it,
0:23:01 > 0:23:04'so we're going to play it again. And perhaps every Tuesday.'
0:23:04 > 0:23:06# How do you like your eggs in the morning? #
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Another problem facing career women
0:23:08 > 0:23:10is not having enough hours in the day
0:23:10 > 0:23:12to meet both family and work commitments.
0:23:12 > 0:23:17One company that's trying to help is one of Britain's biggest, BT.
0:23:17 > 0:23:21Its 70,000 staff can choose from a range of flexible work patterns.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24Married mother of four Karren Bonnet
0:23:24 > 0:23:26is a channel director at BT.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30She's a full-time employee and she works flexi hours from home,
0:23:30 > 0:23:32so she can fit her job around her life.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35Because I don't have to rush to go anywhere,
0:23:35 > 0:23:39because they're the only thing I need to focus on, it is quite calm.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43Whereas, if you're working in an office, you've got to get ready,
0:23:43 > 0:23:47make sure you've got everything, etc, etc.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50So it takes some of the pressure off.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53- How long do I have to do it for, again?- 20 seconds.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57Karren is normally at her PC by six in the morning,
0:23:57 > 0:24:00so she's already done an hour's work before the school run.
0:24:00 > 0:24:04- What you have to do for the medieval feast?- Dance.
0:24:04 > 0:24:07- You've got to dance?- Yeah.- No way!
0:24:08 > 0:24:11Nobody would ever ask me how my working day was structured,
0:24:11 > 0:24:13except to put an appointment in.
0:24:13 > 0:24:17I would never be asked about the school run,
0:24:17 > 0:24:19am I available, whatever time.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21Everything is within my control
0:24:21 > 0:24:25and people accept that there may need to be some flexibility around calls
0:24:25 > 0:24:28you put in the diary at the beginning or end of the day.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30How I work now is absolutely the norm.
0:24:32 > 0:24:36Half an hour after dropping the kids off, Karren is back home and at her desk.
0:24:36 > 0:24:40So here we are, what does my day look like today?
0:24:40 > 0:24:46From nine o'clock onwards, a series of calls through until 12:30,
0:24:46 > 0:24:48where I'll have a short break for lunch.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51Then I come back to the office for further calls
0:24:51 > 0:24:52throughout the afternoon.
0:24:52 > 0:24:57BT says that flexible working helps retain valued employees.
0:24:57 > 0:25:01More than 90% of women return to the company after maternity leave,
0:25:01 > 0:25:03more than double the industry average.
0:25:03 > 0:25:07Quite a few women work from home occasionally
0:25:07 > 0:25:10because that makes it easier for them to take their share
0:25:10 > 0:25:12of the picking up and dropping off.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15Another popular form with women is term-time working
0:25:15 > 0:25:19so they can be there for kids when they're needed most.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21Also, from a family perspective,
0:25:21 > 0:25:27it cuts down on the costs of childcare for the whole family.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29After catching up with e-mails,
0:25:29 > 0:25:32it's time for Karren to call her boss, Gary.
0:25:33 > 0:25:37He also works from home, 130 miles away in rural Suffolk.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39PHONE RINGS
0:25:42 > 0:25:45- Gary Norgate speaking, good afternoon.- Hi Gary, it's Karren.
0:25:45 > 0:25:47Oh, hello, Karren, how are you?
0:25:47 > 0:25:51From his home HQ, Gary directs around 500 people,
0:25:51 > 0:25:53around half of whom work flexibly.
0:25:53 > 0:25:57BT says each home worker saves them £6,000,
0:25:57 > 0:25:59a total of around 70 million per year.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02It also saves hundreds of millions a year
0:26:02 > 0:26:04through having less office space.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07I've got people on four-day weeks,
0:26:07 > 0:26:09three-day weeks,
0:26:09 > 0:26:12just about any combination you could imagine.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14It's every sort of flexibility.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17But the common thing is they know what they've got to do,
0:26:17 > 0:26:19they know when they've got to do it
0:26:19 > 0:26:22and they know that their principal objective
0:26:22 > 0:26:24is to make sure that doesn't slip.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27Other than that, flexible as you like.
0:26:27 > 0:26:31Like Karren, Gary can choose when to be at his desk,
0:26:31 > 0:26:34or when to be with his wife and seven-year-old daughter, Alice.
0:26:34 > 0:26:35Hello, darling.
0:26:35 > 0:26:40'It's just so nice to be able to be there in the evening,'
0:26:40 > 0:26:42see how she's got on at school, read her a story,
0:26:42 > 0:26:45be there when she gets up. Not every morning, it's not going to work that way
0:26:45 > 0:26:47but two or three days a week,
0:26:47 > 0:26:49it's fantastic, it feels like you're being part of it.
0:26:49 > 0:26:54You're contributing something, rather than just being the money earner. I just plain enjoy it.
0:26:54 > 0:26:59Flexible working has also allowed Karren to see more of her family,
0:26:59 > 0:27:02but it hasn't held her back in her career.
0:27:02 > 0:27:05Over the last six years, she has been promoted three times,
0:27:05 > 0:27:08rising through the ranks from sales to senior management.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13I can honestly say that flexible working
0:27:13 > 0:27:16has not held me back in any way, shape or form
0:27:16 > 0:27:17and I have no doubt in my mind
0:27:17 > 0:27:20it's ensured that not only have I stayed in the workplace
0:27:20 > 0:27:25but I've managed to progress up the career ladder in BT.
0:27:26 > 0:27:29After lunch, Karren is ready for her next appointment,
0:27:29 > 0:27:32helping to organise a medieval feast at her boys' school.
0:27:36 > 0:27:40Flexible working means she doesn't have to justify the juggling act.
0:27:40 > 0:27:45The greatest benefit is I don't have the constant guilt.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47I do have guilt, but I don't have it constantly,
0:27:47 > 0:27:51and they don't spend every day making very difficult choices,
0:27:51 > 0:27:54ie work, children.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58Back at home, Karren finishes her work for the day
0:27:58 > 0:28:00before changing for her evening event.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03Very busy day but it's amazing to be here, it looks fantastic
0:28:03 > 0:28:06and to see the children enjoying themselves
0:28:06 > 0:28:08is just everything you could hope for.
0:28:15 > 0:28:20Flexible working may be a solution for women employed by big companies
0:28:20 > 0:28:23but what about smaller enterprises?
0:28:25 > 0:28:28Hilary is on her way to Derbyshire
0:28:28 > 0:28:31to visit a family business that's embraced the flexible approach.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34I've actually talked to large corporates
0:28:34 > 0:28:38who manage very, very well within their structure
0:28:38 > 0:28:41but then they have a huge pool of human resource.
0:28:41 > 0:28:48So it's very easy for them to accommodate flexible working time.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52But I want to understand fully the implications of small businesses.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56The company Hilary's visiting may be small,
0:28:56 > 0:28:59but they've pulled off something she's yet to accomplish -
0:28:59 > 0:29:01balancing work with family life.
0:29:01 > 0:29:05I built my own business from nothing and I still do not have it all.
0:29:05 > 0:29:07I wholeheartedly admit that.
0:29:07 > 0:29:12If I'm absolutely honest, I don't have a work/life balance.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16Scott and Hayley Bradshaw own an accountancy practice in Matlock,
0:29:16 > 0:29:17employing nine people.
0:29:17 > 0:29:21They've built their work routine around caring for their three children.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25They even bring their youngest, George, into the office.
0:29:25 > 0:29:27We've got some of George's toys on the floor.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30George is my little boy, he's eight months old now
0:29:30 > 0:29:32but he does come into the office, every now and again,
0:29:32 > 0:29:33to spend a morning with us
0:29:33 > 0:29:36or a full day, sometimes, which is good fun for all of us.
0:29:36 > 0:29:38Over the last seven years,
0:29:38 > 0:29:41Hayley has taken three periods of maternity leave.
0:29:41 > 0:29:45She now works part-time, but some clients have been frustrated
0:29:45 > 0:29:47by her absence from the office.
0:29:47 > 0:29:49We've got a family as well as a business.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53Sometimes the family comes with us, sometimes the business goes home
0:29:53 > 0:29:58and if they can see it, yes, we can gain clients from it as well.
0:29:58 > 0:30:00So people that are happy
0:30:00 > 0:30:04to have their e-mails answered at ten o'clock, midnight, or whatever,
0:30:04 > 0:30:08after the kids have gone to bed, they're happy with that.
0:30:08 > 0:30:11As well as juggling their own childcare, Scott and Hayley
0:30:11 > 0:30:14have had to adjust to four members of staff
0:30:14 > 0:30:16taking time off for maternity leave.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18Hilary wants to know how they've coped
0:30:18 > 0:30:20with losing key members of their team
0:30:20 > 0:30:23and balanced business with family life.
0:30:23 > 0:30:27We usually arrive about ten o'clock and we'll have a nice full day here, which is great.
0:30:27 > 0:30:28We'll leave about five o'clock
0:30:28 > 0:30:31and then, Tuesday, you'll stay at home all day, won't you?
0:30:31 > 0:30:35Yeah, really nice to spend that time at home, just me and baby.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38Wednesdays, Hayley's at home with Molly and George,
0:30:38 > 0:30:41then, Thursday and Friday, it's the same as Monday - nursery day.
0:30:41 > 0:30:45Crikey, you've seem to have achieved the perfect...
0:30:45 > 0:30:49absolute idyllic work/life balance.
0:30:49 > 0:30:53Did you ever consider, Hayley, that you should stop work totally
0:30:53 > 0:30:56and just stay at home and look after the children?
0:30:56 > 0:30:58Because three children is a tall order.
0:30:58 > 0:31:01Yeah. You know, the thought never actually entered my mind,
0:31:01 > 0:31:03"Shall I stop working?"
0:31:03 > 0:31:05I've always wanted my own business so I've had this ideal,
0:31:05 > 0:31:08which was there and that's what I was aiming towards.
0:31:08 > 0:31:12Scott and Hayley's flexible approach to work may be family-friendly,
0:31:12 > 0:31:17but Hilary wants to know how they've coped with multiple periods of maternity leave.
0:31:17 > 0:31:22What would you say has been the cost to the business for the ladies
0:31:22 > 0:31:25that have left for maternity leave?
0:31:25 > 0:31:30I think the most difficult aspect is in the occasions
0:31:30 > 0:31:33where they've not come back into the exact same working pattern.
0:31:33 > 0:31:36We have had occasions where people wanted to spend more time
0:31:36 > 0:31:38working from home rather than in the office.
0:31:38 > 0:31:40When it's a senior, client-facing role,
0:31:40 > 0:31:44and clients are expecting you to answer the phone when they ring up,
0:31:44 > 0:31:46- it can be difficult. - What was the solution?
0:31:46 > 0:31:48The solution was we just told clients what was going on,
0:31:48 > 0:31:50just being transparent,
0:31:50 > 0:31:52with not only clients but also team-mates
0:31:52 > 0:31:55and, if everybody knows what the score is, you all survive.
0:31:55 > 0:31:58You didn't lose any clients by doing it?
0:31:58 > 0:32:02Certainly we had a few difficult conversations but you get through.
0:32:02 > 0:32:06Because certainly I would, if I had have been your client,
0:32:06 > 0:32:08I would not have liked that at all.
0:32:08 > 0:32:11I'd have thought, "I'll find myself another accountant."
0:32:11 > 0:32:15No, a few clients didn't like it and they probably did have
0:32:15 > 0:32:18the conversation with us, "I'm thinking of changing accountant,"
0:32:18 > 0:32:20but we find ways of explaining to them
0:32:20 > 0:32:21that they're better off with us.
0:32:22 > 0:32:26For Scott and Hayley, balancing work with family
0:32:26 > 0:32:28has led to some compromises,
0:32:28 > 0:32:32including closing their second office.
0:32:32 > 0:32:34Something had to give, really and it was just a natural time.
0:32:34 > 0:32:36We knew that the situation
0:32:36 > 0:32:38was only just going to get more difficult when George came along,
0:32:38 > 0:32:42so we quickly took the decision to sell one of our offices
0:32:42 > 0:32:46and we've now got a much smaller - but much tighter - team,
0:32:46 > 0:32:50all enjoying the same kind of culture that we've always envisaged,
0:32:50 > 0:32:53but we're growing at the rate that we want to grow again.
0:32:53 > 0:32:57After meeting Scott and Hayley, Hilary thinks small companies
0:32:57 > 0:33:00can also be flexible towards their working mums.
0:33:00 > 0:33:05A business of their scale and size can achieve flexi working time
0:33:05 > 0:33:06and they've achieved it well.
0:33:06 > 0:33:10Obviously growth has been one of the sacrifices they've had to pay
0:33:10 > 0:33:13because, you know, for a business that's seven years in,
0:33:13 > 0:33:16there's not been any substantial growth.
0:33:16 > 0:33:18Having said that,
0:33:18 > 0:33:21they've actually catered for a very happy team of people.
0:33:21 > 0:33:24They're obviously a profitable little business
0:33:24 > 0:33:28and they've achieved a perfect work/life balance.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33Spurred on by what she's seen,
0:33:33 > 0:33:37it's time for Hilary to find solutions closer to home.
0:33:45 > 0:33:47Hilary is looking for flexible options
0:33:47 > 0:33:49to help working mothers at her own company.
0:33:52 > 0:33:54As well as helping women,
0:33:54 > 0:33:58Hilary hopes this will redress the company's gender balance.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01Undoubtedly, what this journey has led me to believe
0:34:01 > 0:34:04is that mixed gender in the workplace
0:34:04 > 0:34:07is more profitable and more beneficial to the business.
0:34:07 > 0:34:12So I've got to now put my thoughts into action
0:34:12 > 0:34:13and prove that I mean them.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16At middle-management level,
0:34:16 > 0:34:18Pall-Ex has an equal ratio of men to women
0:34:18 > 0:34:22but there's one key area that remains resolutely masculine -
0:34:22 > 0:34:24the warehouse floor.
0:34:26 > 0:34:29Hundreds of trucks use Hilary's hub every day,
0:34:29 > 0:34:33loading and unloading pallets from across the land.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35Key to the smooth running of the operation,
0:34:35 > 0:34:37the fork-lift truck drivers.
0:34:37 > 0:34:39It's a job where every second counts,
0:34:39 > 0:34:42requiring skill and concentration
0:34:42 > 0:34:45and Hilary wants women to play a bigger part.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55She's called a meeting with key members of her operational team
0:34:55 > 0:34:56to come up with a plan.
0:34:56 > 0:34:59I do think mixed-gender teams work better
0:34:59 > 0:35:02but I want to have a serious discussion
0:35:02 > 0:35:07with how feasible it would be to have women fork-lift drivers,
0:35:07 > 0:35:09or women management on the floor.
0:35:09 > 0:35:12One of the issues we have here with women working in the warehouse
0:35:12 > 0:35:16is not just the fact that it's a male-dominated environment.
0:35:16 > 0:35:19I think you've also got the night-time issue as well,
0:35:19 > 0:35:22especially women who've got children already,
0:35:22 > 0:35:25are not going to want to be away from the child.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27How do you think the blokes would react to it?
0:35:27 > 0:35:29I don't think they'd react badly.
0:35:29 > 0:35:31As long as the person can do the job
0:35:31 > 0:35:34that's being tasked to them, I don't think they'd have an issue.
0:35:34 > 0:35:37The one thing I think that women find difficult to return to work,
0:35:37 > 0:35:42after having children, is that childcare is so expensive.
0:35:42 > 0:35:46- The cost of childcare.- Yeah, and they can't afford to return to work.
0:35:46 > 0:35:49- I think a lot of them do want to return to work.- Absolutely.
0:35:49 > 0:35:53In whatever capacity, they want to work.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56They don't always want to come back full time, do they?
0:35:56 > 0:35:58That is a really interesting point,
0:35:58 > 0:36:01but using the warehouse as an experiment
0:36:01 > 0:36:05in part-time employment for women that have had children
0:36:05 > 0:36:09that perhaps just want a few hours a day here, a bit of extra money there.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13Let's try it, because we might find a happier working environment.
0:36:13 > 0:36:18Certainly, I can see a job like that suiting a woman, having had a child,
0:36:18 > 0:36:21who wants to return to work for a few hours a day.
0:36:21 > 0:36:24Between the hours of 9:30 and 2:30,
0:36:24 > 0:36:27there's an area there where the child's at school already.
0:36:27 > 0:36:30- We'll set a workflow analysis.- Yeah.
0:36:31 > 0:36:34Yeah, let's do that.
0:36:34 > 0:36:38And let's try it this year at our peak time.
0:36:38 > 0:36:40And, before that,
0:36:40 > 0:36:44we'll do some sort of a marketing recruitment campaign
0:36:44 > 0:36:47to say we want to become more female-friendly.
0:36:47 > 0:36:50- Definitely.- Yeah.
0:36:50 > 0:36:52The more I think about it, the better it'll be,
0:36:52 > 0:36:55because it's a perfect job for a woman.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03Combining work with family commitments
0:37:03 > 0:37:05isn't the only challenge facing career women.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09For many, a lack of confidence can also be a problem.
0:37:12 > 0:37:16Heather Jackson from Yorkshire thinks she's found the solution.
0:37:16 > 0:37:20She set up a support group, called Pearls,
0:37:20 > 0:37:23that holds regular networking events across the UK.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26There's three things that women get out of it -
0:37:26 > 0:37:27confidence and self belief,
0:37:27 > 0:37:30recognition of their capabilities and an understanding
0:37:30 > 0:37:33of the development and importance of networks and contacts
0:37:33 > 0:37:34to give them, ultimately,
0:37:34 > 0:37:37control and choice in where they're wanting to go.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40Companies like ASDA, RBS and Morrisons
0:37:40 > 0:37:42have signed up to the Pearls programme.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45Their rising stars can enrol in the scheme,
0:37:45 > 0:37:48gaining access to networking events and an online forum.
0:37:49 > 0:37:51It's important for me
0:37:51 > 0:37:55because, in my everyday work, I'm not always comfortable...
0:37:56 > 0:37:58..drawing attention to the fact
0:37:58 > 0:38:01that, you know, I'm a mum and I'm rushing about.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04You want to focus on just doing your job.
0:38:04 > 0:38:07And that's fine, but sometimes it's important that you know
0:38:07 > 0:38:10you're not on your own and you can share those experiences
0:38:10 > 0:38:14and let your guard down a bit and just be yourself a bit more.
0:38:14 > 0:38:15Let's be honest,
0:38:15 > 0:38:19men have had an unbelievable network for generations now.
0:38:19 > 0:38:21I haven't got a problem with the old boys' network.
0:38:21 > 0:38:24What we need to do is join the old boys' network
0:38:24 > 0:38:26with the new girls' network.
0:38:27 > 0:38:29As an entrepreneur who's made it on her own,
0:38:29 > 0:38:31Hilary is sceptical
0:38:31 > 0:38:35about the need for women's support networks like Pearls.
0:38:35 > 0:38:39I've been involved in a lot of these women's networking.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42There's lots and lots and lots of them out there.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45To be honest, I've always steered clear from them,
0:38:45 > 0:38:48because life is tough in business
0:38:48 > 0:38:51and I've just put my head down, forged ahead
0:38:51 > 0:38:55and knocked every barrier out of my way and got where I am that way.
0:38:57 > 0:38:59Hilary is meeting some of the Pearls
0:38:59 > 0:39:02to hear how they benefit from support networks.
0:39:02 > 0:39:05What the Pearls has done is really enabled me to network
0:39:05 > 0:39:06outside of the banking sector
0:39:06 > 0:39:09and make connections with women in different sectors
0:39:09 > 0:39:13and really understand how we can help and support each other
0:39:13 > 0:39:17in actually progressing with our own hurdles and barriers.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20Every event that I've been to, we've had really inspirational speakers
0:39:20 > 0:39:23that have made me think about me and have that little bit of time
0:39:23 > 0:39:25to focus on Mel as a person,
0:39:25 > 0:39:27Mel who wants a career,
0:39:27 > 0:39:30not Mel as the mum and I've come away from them thinking
0:39:30 > 0:39:31that I can do more.
0:39:31 > 0:39:35But you have a number of networks that have been established
0:39:35 > 0:39:36for at least 15 years.
0:39:36 > 0:39:39There are lots of women's networks out there.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42Many are set up by women, many are set up by businesses
0:39:42 > 0:39:43and I think what we've got here is both.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46People think women's networks are just full of women
0:39:46 > 0:39:51are actually it's been interesting involving men in that as well.
0:39:51 > 0:39:53- It's fabulous, do I need to join?- Yeah.
0:39:53 > 0:39:54THEY ALL LAUGH
0:39:58 > 0:40:01From flexible hours to support networks,
0:40:01 > 0:40:03Hilary's heard some of the solutions
0:40:03 > 0:40:05aimed at helping women in the workplace,
0:40:05 > 0:40:08but she's still investigating one radical idea
0:40:08 > 0:40:10that's looming on the horizon -
0:40:10 > 0:40:12boardroom quotas.
0:40:16 > 0:40:19With the EU considering whether to impose quotas across Europe,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23Hilary wants to know what impact they could have in Britain.
0:40:23 > 0:40:28'The EU Commissioner of late has spoken quite vociferously'
0:40:28 > 0:40:32about the possibility of imposing quota legislation,
0:40:32 > 0:40:34both in the UK and throughout Europe.
0:40:34 > 0:40:37So it is a threat that our country and companies
0:40:37 > 0:40:39ought to be knowing more about.
0:40:41 > 0:40:44To see how quotas might work in Britain,
0:40:44 > 0:40:48Hilary's heading for the ultimate gentleman's club - Westminster.
0:40:51 > 0:40:55The mother of Parliaments is still a male-dominated world.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59Today, women account for one in five MPs
0:40:59 > 0:41:03but, in the 1990s, it was less than one in ten.
0:41:03 > 0:41:06Labour activist, Barbara Follett, set out to discover
0:41:06 > 0:41:08why so few women standing for election
0:41:08 > 0:41:10were getting into Parliament.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13We'd looked at, "Why don't they come through?"
0:41:13 > 0:41:17And they don't come through because the best seats have been reserved
0:41:17 > 0:41:22by this unspoken coalition of males.
0:41:22 > 0:41:26Generally, what happens is that Buggins, who is almost always male,
0:41:26 > 0:41:30has fixed up the safe seat for himself
0:41:30 > 0:41:33and the unsafe seat for the woman.
0:41:34 > 0:41:37The Labour Party's answer was to adopt a quota system.
0:41:37 > 0:41:40Local parties were forced to choose parliamentary candidates
0:41:40 > 0:41:42from all-female shortlist.
0:41:42 > 0:41:44The results were dramatic.
0:41:44 > 0:41:50At the 1997 general election, over 100 Labour women entered Parliament.
0:41:50 > 0:41:54The new MPs, including Barbara Follett, were dubbed Blair's Babes.
0:41:54 > 0:41:59I didn't mind being called a babe, I was 52 - good to be called a babe!
0:41:59 > 0:42:05But what I was very pleased to see were 101 Labour women in Parliament.
0:42:05 > 0:42:09Quotas may have helped more women into Westminster,
0:42:09 > 0:42:13but Hilary wants to know if such a system would work for business.
0:42:13 > 0:42:16If we impose a quota situation,
0:42:16 > 0:42:20how do we convince the commercial world
0:42:20 > 0:42:24that we will still get the best person for the role?
0:42:25 > 0:42:30I think if you look at places like the House of Commons,
0:42:30 > 0:42:36where you've got many men who came through on the old system,
0:42:36 > 0:42:38you'll realise that the old system
0:42:38 > 0:42:41is just as flawed as any quota system
0:42:41 > 0:42:45and a quota system actually tends to give you
0:42:45 > 0:42:49more examination of the person who's coming through.
0:42:49 > 0:42:53They haven't just slid in thanks to the old boys' network
0:42:53 > 0:42:57and I think that if we want progress
0:42:57 > 0:43:00we need to put in some positive action...
0:43:01 > 0:43:05..and to say this is a short-term measure
0:43:05 > 0:43:08to correct a long-term imbalance.
0:43:10 > 0:43:12Hilary's meeting with Barbara Follett
0:43:12 > 0:43:13has given her food for thought
0:43:13 > 0:43:18but she's still worried how gender quotas will impact on companies.
0:43:18 > 0:43:21'I think positive action that the Labour Party took
0:43:21 > 0:43:25'to entice more females into politics was good.'
0:43:25 > 0:43:27Unless that had happened.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30they wouldn't necessarily have even bothered to apply.
0:43:30 > 0:43:32However, I'm not so sure it will work in business
0:43:32 > 0:43:37and I think to impose quota legislation on businesses,
0:43:37 > 0:43:41whether it be the FTSE 350, the FTSE 500,
0:43:41 > 0:43:44would have a significant impact on our economy
0:43:44 > 0:43:46and not necessarily for the good.
0:43:47 > 0:43:50Hilary's not the only woman who is sceptical about quotas.
0:43:50 > 0:43:54Nicola Horlick is no ordinary fund manager, she's 35 years old,
0:43:54 > 0:43:58is reckoned to earn a million pounds a year and has five children.
0:43:58 > 0:44:00Former "Superwoman" Nicola Horlick
0:44:00 > 0:44:03thinks they would be bad for women's careers.
0:44:03 > 0:44:05'The problem with quotas, as we know,'
0:44:05 > 0:44:10it is that if you have people being selected because they are a woman
0:44:10 > 0:44:11then people can always say,
0:44:11 > 0:44:15"Oh, she was only there because she was a woman," and that's awful.
0:44:15 > 0:44:18And, you know, so I would much rather that we just,
0:44:18 > 0:44:21everybody got together and said, "Right, we've got to have a real go
0:44:21 > 0:44:24"at trying to increase female representation on boards,"
0:44:24 > 0:44:27rather than forcing them to do it through a quota system.
0:44:29 > 0:44:32Determined to seek an alternative to quotas,
0:44:32 > 0:44:37Hilary is meeting someone who says he's found another way of getting more women into the boardroom.
0:44:37 > 0:44:41I'm on my way to meet a very interesting gentleman,
0:44:41 > 0:44:44Lord Davies, who was commissioned by the government
0:44:44 > 0:44:49to do some actual research in promoting females into the boardroom,
0:44:49 > 0:44:51breaking down the barriers.
0:44:51 > 0:44:52So, I'm quite interested
0:44:52 > 0:44:56to hear what he's got to say about quota legislation
0:44:56 > 0:44:58and about what his experiences have been.
0:44:58 > 0:45:01The boardrooms of Britain's biggest companies
0:45:01 > 0:45:06represent the pinnacle of UK PLC but it's still a man's world.
0:45:08 > 0:45:12Women make up only a small proportion of their boards.
0:45:12 > 0:45:14Lord Davies was asked by the government
0:45:14 > 0:45:17to find a way of breaking up the old boys' network.
0:45:18 > 0:45:25So, Mervyn, you must have been one of the most unpopular men in business
0:45:25 > 0:45:28when you began working on the Davies Report?
0:45:28 > 0:45:31I was. The reaction of some of the chairman to me
0:45:31 > 0:45:34when I launched the steering group was,
0:45:34 > 0:45:37one or two of them were pretty hostile.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40I would have argued that this was a male club
0:45:40 > 0:45:45and the fact that 92% of the FTSE 350 appointments were male,
0:45:45 > 0:45:48that is just not equality, it's not meritocracy,
0:45:48 > 0:45:49it's not the right system.
0:45:49 > 0:45:53We needed to smash - that is the right word -
0:45:53 > 0:45:55what is an all-male society.
0:45:55 > 0:46:00Despite the tough language, Davies's solution stopped short of quotas.
0:46:00 > 0:46:04He thinks the answer is targets for women on boards.
0:46:04 > 0:46:09So what we've done is we've set out a target of 25% of the board by 2015
0:46:09 > 0:46:12and then what we've said to companies is publish,
0:46:12 > 0:46:14you know, how many women employees you've got
0:46:14 > 0:46:17and then how many are getting to the top,
0:46:17 > 0:46:19to the executive committee and the board.
0:46:19 > 0:46:26Why 25%, when France are going for 40%, Norway is 40%?
0:46:26 > 0:46:30I think 40 in a lot of countries is a quota.
0:46:30 > 0:46:33Women do not want quotas.
0:46:33 > 0:46:37I think the best way to do this is to self-regulate, get it fixed.
0:46:37 > 0:46:41If they don't fix it in the next couple of years, bring in quotas,
0:46:41 > 0:46:44because it means we've failed.
0:46:44 > 0:46:46I think we will succeed.
0:46:46 > 0:46:51Having met Lord Davies, Hilary believes targets rather than quotas
0:46:51 > 0:46:54are the best way of getting more women onto boards.
0:46:54 > 0:47:00I think that Lord Davies's approach is absolutely right for the UK.
0:47:00 > 0:47:03He's allowing time for adjustment.
0:47:03 > 0:47:07Let the businesses do this themselves,
0:47:07 > 0:47:10allow them the time to culturally believe in it.
0:47:10 > 0:47:13It's important that these board members themselves
0:47:13 > 0:47:17believe that a mixed-gender board will be for the benefit,
0:47:17 > 0:47:22not just of society, but also for businesses in the future.
0:47:27 > 0:47:29Since the publication of the Davies report,
0:47:29 > 0:47:35one in four companies in the FTSE 100 have reached his 25% target
0:47:35 > 0:47:37for women on their boards.
0:47:37 > 0:47:40To keep the pressure on, Lord Davies has asked Amanda Mackenzie
0:47:40 > 0:47:42to keep an eye on progress.
0:47:42 > 0:47:46In her day job she's chief marketing officer of insurance giant Aviva.
0:47:46 > 0:47:49She thinks getting more women into the boardroom
0:47:49 > 0:47:52would provide vital role models.
0:47:52 > 0:47:55If you have more women on your board,
0:47:55 > 0:48:00they're going to look for more women through the company.
0:48:00 > 0:48:02'The more you see more women on a board,
0:48:02 > 0:48:04'the more it's attractive as a potential place to go and work.'
0:48:04 > 0:48:07As a woman you go, "They're role modelling, I get that,
0:48:07 > 0:48:08"that's a good place to want to join."
0:48:09 > 0:48:12Amanda is fast becoming a role model herself -
0:48:12 > 0:48:16last year she was appointed to the board of Mothercare.
0:48:16 > 0:48:18As a non-executive director,
0:48:18 > 0:48:21she's one of five people from outside the company
0:48:21 > 0:48:24who help oversee the big decisions.
0:48:24 > 0:48:26So this is the Mothercare boardroom
0:48:26 > 0:48:29and when we meet in Watford, this is where we meet.
0:48:29 > 0:48:32It's a relatively small board, there's seven directors,
0:48:32 > 0:48:36two are executive directors and five non-exec directors.
0:48:36 > 0:48:38The chairman would probably sit in the middle.
0:48:38 > 0:48:41With sales of more than £800 million a year
0:48:41 > 0:48:44a seat on the Mothercare board
0:48:44 > 0:48:46brings with it a heavy responsibility.
0:48:46 > 0:48:48In this past year,
0:48:48 > 0:48:51we've collectively appointed a new chairman,
0:48:51 > 0:48:52so that's a very key role
0:48:52 > 0:48:54and incredibly important in the next phase of Mothercare.
0:48:54 > 0:48:58The decisions that we tend to make are around strategy of the business
0:48:58 > 0:49:01and then the governance of the business and how it's being run
0:49:01 > 0:49:03rather than deciding what the web page looks like
0:49:03 > 0:49:05or what a new advert should be about.
0:49:05 > 0:49:07As the only woman on the board,
0:49:07 > 0:49:10Amanda brings a different perspective to the top table.
0:49:10 > 0:49:14I think it's very significant that I'm the woman and that I am a mother
0:49:14 > 0:49:16but, at the end of the day, I have shopped in Mothercare
0:49:16 > 0:49:19when I was pregnant or, you know, with young children
0:49:19 > 0:49:20and I know what that feels like.
0:49:20 > 0:49:22But I also think it's also the collective
0:49:22 > 0:49:24of the experiences you have through your life,
0:49:24 > 0:49:27sort of, mixed in with what you're born with, if you like,
0:49:27 > 0:49:29that then means you can come at things
0:49:29 > 0:49:30from quite a different perspective.
0:49:34 > 0:49:36Helena Morrissey is another role model
0:49:36 > 0:49:39who's breaking down the door of the boardroom.
0:49:39 > 0:49:44Not content with running an investment fund worth around £50 billion,
0:49:44 > 0:49:46she's the mother of nine children.
0:49:51 > 0:49:54'Inevitably, since I have a lot of children, I have very early start.
0:49:54 > 0:49:57'So, normally, I get up about five o'clock
0:49:57 > 0:49:58'and wake the children around 6.30.'
0:49:58 > 0:50:01So, in between, I try to orchestrate, you know,
0:50:01 > 0:50:03we have this infamous whiteboard
0:50:03 > 0:50:05where we put everybody's plans for the day on it
0:50:05 > 0:50:07and check that someone's going to collect everybody.
0:50:07 > 0:50:11In her spare time, Helena has set up an organisation
0:50:11 > 0:50:16challenging companies to aim for 30% female representation on the boards.
0:50:16 > 0:50:18Welcome, everybody, and thank you for coming.
0:50:18 > 0:50:20This meeting, obviously, is a bit unusual -
0:50:20 > 0:50:22we're going to be just focusing on the EU submission...
0:50:22 > 0:50:26'The whole 30% Club idea was set up because of the belief,
0:50:26 > 0:50:30'very strong belief, that having better gender balance in boardroom'
0:50:30 > 0:50:32is better the business and better for everybody.
0:50:32 > 0:50:34Better for the economy, better for shareholders,
0:50:34 > 0:50:38as well as better the women in terms of creating more opportunities.
0:50:38 > 0:50:41Companies like Sainsbury's and M&S
0:50:41 > 0:50:44have been persuaded by Helena's voluntary target
0:50:44 > 0:50:46but there's steel behind her soft approach.
0:50:46 > 0:50:49She's exerting pressure on businesses through their shareholders.
0:50:49 > 0:50:51I think that's a good point. If we started with,
0:50:51 > 0:50:54"Over the past 18 months, since the launch of the 30% Club,
0:50:54 > 0:50:57"followed by the publication of Lord Davies review..."
0:50:57 > 0:51:01'Ultimately, if investors, on any issue, not just this one,
0:51:01 > 0:51:02'don't like what they see,
0:51:02 > 0:51:07'then they can vote against the election of the chairman'
0:51:07 > 0:51:09or individual members of the board -
0:51:09 > 0:51:11and chairmen come up for election annually.
0:51:11 > 0:51:15So this is something that, in theory, investors,
0:51:15 > 0:51:18if we group together, could make an impact in a very pointed way.
0:51:22 > 0:51:24The pressure on companies seems to be paying off.
0:51:24 > 0:51:28Over the last year, the number of women entering the boardroom
0:51:28 > 0:51:30has risen sharply.
0:51:30 > 0:51:33Hilary thinks the voluntary approach is the right solution
0:51:33 > 0:51:36to helping women reach the top.
0:51:36 > 0:51:40I'm delighted to be able to say that, in the FTSE 100,
0:51:40 > 0:51:46a quarter of the appointments in the last 12 months have gone to females.
0:51:46 > 0:51:50So I think that demonstrates very admirably
0:51:50 > 0:51:52that the Lord Davies approach
0:51:52 > 0:51:57of voluntary bringing women onto the board
0:51:57 > 0:52:01does work far better than a quota legislation.
0:52:02 > 0:52:07With big businesses under pressure to appoint more women at the top,
0:52:07 > 0:52:09the race is on to find new female talent.
0:52:13 > 0:52:18Today, around 50 women are gathering at an event in the City of London.
0:52:18 > 0:52:22The aim of the organisers is to connect senior company chairman
0:52:22 > 0:52:24with aspiring board-ready women.
0:52:24 > 0:52:27Something extraordinary we think has happened in the last two months.
0:52:27 > 0:52:3148% of new appointments to FTSE 100 boards were women -
0:52:31 > 0:52:33that's nearly half.
0:52:33 > 0:52:36'I believe very strongly that the contribution'
0:52:36 > 0:52:38that women can make to boards is extremely important
0:52:38 > 0:52:40and everything that big business can do
0:52:40 > 0:52:42to get more able women onto boards
0:52:42 > 0:52:46will help prosperity and that'll help everybody in the country.
0:52:46 > 0:52:48The women behind today's event believe there are
0:52:48 > 0:52:50plenty of experienced women waiting in the wings.
0:52:50 > 0:52:53'There is absolutely no problem with supply,'
0:52:53 > 0:52:55I think the problem is with a visible talent pool of women
0:52:55 > 0:52:56and that's where we come in.
0:52:56 > 0:52:58We see our role as identifying women
0:52:58 > 0:53:01who could be great directors in the future and making them visible,
0:53:01 > 0:53:04making sure that chairman and head-hunters,
0:53:04 > 0:53:06and others who influence board appointments
0:53:06 > 0:53:08know where they are and can connect to them.
0:53:08 > 0:53:12The focus of the afternoon is a simulated board meeting.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14It's not just a chance to see
0:53:14 > 0:53:17how experienced chairman handle big decisions, it's also an audition.
0:53:17 > 0:53:21'Women are not particularly good at self-promotion
0:53:21 > 0:53:24'and I think that's why we have the simulated board meeting.'
0:53:24 > 0:53:27It is designed to give women the chance to excel
0:53:27 > 0:53:32and we avoid putting them in a chit-chatty, self-promotional role
0:53:32 > 0:53:34because they're not very good at it.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37We give a woman a task and she will excel.
0:53:37 > 0:53:41One women at the event has recently accepted her first boardroom job.
0:53:41 > 0:53:43For those with the right experience,
0:53:43 > 0:53:45there are more opportunities than ever
0:53:45 > 0:53:47for women who want to get to the top.
0:53:47 > 0:53:51I literally started only a few months ago, looking,
0:53:51 > 0:53:54and was quite surprised at how quickly it happened, actually.
0:53:54 > 0:53:57So, I think it's, my advice would be to aspiring women NEDs
0:53:57 > 0:54:02just go for it because it's probably not quite so complicated
0:54:02 > 0:54:04as, perhaps, people think it is.
0:54:04 > 0:54:06You just have to make the decision
0:54:06 > 0:54:10and then to be clear about what kind of NED-ship you want
0:54:10 > 0:54:12and then, obviously, approach the head-hunters,
0:54:12 > 0:54:14and make it, make yourself known.
0:54:18 > 0:54:21Britain's boardrooms may be more female focused
0:54:21 > 0:54:24but Hilary is still looking for solutions
0:54:24 > 0:54:26that will help other working women.
0:54:26 > 0:54:30'The boardroom is not the be-all and end-all of business.'
0:54:30 > 0:54:34A lot of decisions are made from junior management level,
0:54:34 > 0:54:36middle management level.
0:54:36 > 0:54:40What I'd like to see is less talk about women in the boardroom
0:54:40 > 0:54:44and more talk, and more action, about women in business per se.
0:54:47 > 0:54:51Hilary's hit on a plan to help women at her own company.
0:54:51 > 0:54:55She wants to offer flexible hours in the Pall-Ex warehouse,
0:54:55 > 0:54:58helping mothers who want to return to work.
0:54:59 > 0:55:01'BBC Radio Leicester.'
0:55:01 > 0:55:04This is BBC Radio Leicester, good afternoon.
0:55:04 > 0:55:08Sally Pepper with you through till three o'clock this afternoon.
0:55:08 > 0:55:10Hello.
0:55:10 > 0:55:12By recruiting female fork-lift drivers,
0:55:12 > 0:55:15Hilary also hopes to kick-start a more equal gender balance
0:55:15 > 0:55:18throughout her organisation.
0:55:18 > 0:55:20To encourage women to come forward,
0:55:20 > 0:55:23Hilary's decided to go on a publicity drive.
0:55:23 > 0:55:25Now, Leicestershire entrepreneur Hilary Devey
0:55:25 > 0:55:29has been investigating the business case for women
0:55:29 > 0:55:34and discovered that gender-diverse teams perform better.
0:55:34 > 0:55:39At Hilary's company, Pall-Ex, her physical shop floor is 98% male.
0:55:39 > 0:55:42Hilary has now decided to recruit more women into these roles
0:55:42 > 0:55:47but this begs the question, would a woman want to do this kind of job?
0:55:47 > 0:55:49- Good afternoon, Hilary. - Good afternoon, Sally.
0:55:49 > 0:55:51You're wanting to recruit
0:55:51 > 0:55:54to get women to be doing these fork-lift truck driving positions?
0:55:54 > 0:55:58Yeah, I definitely do and I have done my own investigations
0:55:58 > 0:56:01with my own business along this journey,
0:56:01 > 0:56:05and I have found, most positively, that gender diversity
0:56:05 > 0:56:09is definitely more productive and more profitable.
0:56:09 > 0:56:11It's very easy for a woman to drive a fork truck
0:56:11 > 0:56:13as it is for a woman to drive a car
0:56:13 > 0:56:16and what I'm trying to do is do flexi hours
0:56:16 > 0:56:19so that they can come in for two or three hours a day
0:56:19 > 0:56:22and then they can gain the work/life balance,
0:56:22 > 0:56:25work around collecting the children from school,
0:56:25 > 0:56:27so we end up with a more equal gender split.
0:56:27 > 0:56:28To be honest, Hilary,
0:56:28 > 0:56:31I'd love to drive a fork-lift truck but do you think...?
0:56:31 > 0:56:33It's very easy, I've done it myself!
0:56:33 > 0:56:37- We could have races and everything, couldn't we?- Absolutely! It's good fun.
0:56:37 > 0:56:40- Do you think many women would want to have that as a job?- Yeah, I do.
0:56:40 > 0:56:42I mean, I can empathise with any woman
0:56:42 > 0:56:45who wants to be there for her child
0:56:45 > 0:56:48when he or she returns home from school
0:56:48 > 0:56:51so if I can offer some flexible working hours locally,
0:56:51 > 0:56:54in Leicestershire, then, you know, I'm happy to do so
0:56:54 > 0:56:58and I really, really want to encourage ladies to come forward for this.
0:57:00 > 0:57:03Hilary Devey there, talking about why there are so few women
0:57:03 > 0:57:05in the top British business roles.
0:57:07 > 0:57:12Well, I hope it was loud enough and I hope enough females heard it.
0:57:12 > 0:57:17This is not just about transforming the business at the shop floor,
0:57:17 > 0:57:22this is about filtration upwards into other areas of the business
0:57:22 > 0:57:25and hopefully retain that skill set within the business.
0:57:27 > 0:57:30With her recruitment drive in motion,
0:57:30 > 0:57:35Hilary is determined to see a better gender mix at all levels of Pall-Ex.
0:57:35 > 0:57:39She thinks other companies can do more to help those women
0:57:39 > 0:57:41who want to pursue a career.
0:57:41 > 0:57:45'What I would say to any business in this country today
0:57:45 > 0:57:49'is try to retain your female talent,'
0:57:49 > 0:57:52try to recruit female talent
0:57:52 > 0:57:54and try to promote female talent.
0:57:54 > 0:57:58We cannot afford, as an economy and as a country,
0:57:58 > 0:58:00to let this female talent go.
0:58:00 > 0:58:03Hilary made it to the top on her own,
0:58:03 > 0:58:06now she thinks it's time to reach out to the women
0:58:06 > 0:58:09who have yet to reach the summit.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12Part of me says that if it's in you you'll do it.
0:58:12 > 0:58:19I believe that ambition transcends education, gender, culture, etc.
0:58:19 > 0:58:22But if we can give females a helping hand along the way, then we should.
0:58:24 > 0:58:27I would say to every woman out there,
0:58:27 > 0:58:30- "You- have- got what it takes to get the top.
0:58:30 > 0:58:32"You may have a few sleepless nights
0:58:32 > 0:58:35"and you may shed a few tears along the way,
0:58:35 > 0:58:38"and you may shed them in sheer and utter frustration
0:58:38 > 0:58:43- "but shrug it off and keep climbing because you- can- get there."
0:58:44 > 0:58:47What are your chances of reaching the top of the career ladder?
0:58:47 > 0:58:51How does your profile compare with a range of boardroom hopefuls?
0:58:51 > 0:58:52To find out go to...
0:58:55 > 0:58:57..and follow the links to the Open University.
0:59:11 > 0:59:14Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd