0:00:02 > 0:00:04There's too many people in the country end of story.
0:00:04 > 0:00:05It needs to stop now.
0:00:05 > 0:00:08Immigration's had a great effect on Britain.
0:00:08 > 0:00:10As far as I'm concerned, we're only lodgers now.
0:00:10 > 0:00:13We can't fit everyone in. We are too small a nation.
0:00:14 > 0:00:19The number of immigrants in the UK has hit a record 7.9 million.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21According to a recent survey,
0:00:21 > 0:00:24three quarters of Britons want to reduce the numbers coming in.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27The country has never been so divided.
0:00:27 > 0:00:29Immigration has brought many benefits.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31We can only take a certain amount and I think we've gone beyond that.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34In this experiment, we've come to London,
0:00:34 > 0:00:37which has the highest percentage of immigrants in the country,
0:00:37 > 0:00:40to bring both sides of the debate together.
0:00:40 > 0:00:45Five sets of UK-born citizens will challenge five sets of immigrants
0:00:45 > 0:00:48all living and working legally in the capital.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51'They've come from all over the world.
0:00:51 > 0:00:56'Each will be paired with a Brit who has strong views on immigration.'
0:00:56 > 0:01:00Margaret and I have got THE crunch question.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02'After spending time together,
0:01:02 > 0:01:04'will the UK-born think the immigrants
0:01:04 > 0:01:06'are a gain or a drain on Britain?'
0:01:06 > 0:01:08It's judgment time.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12'Before deciding, they'll judge their impact on work...'
0:01:12 > 0:01:13We was born in this country
0:01:13 > 0:01:16so therefore we should get a look-in first.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19I can't take on someone who doesn't know nothing about the job.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21'How they live.'
0:01:21 > 0:01:24So it's a big house. We are 20 to live here.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27'They'll look at the impact on healthcare...'
0:01:27 > 0:01:30Do you have any idea of the cost of this operation?
0:01:30 > 0:01:31'..and schools.'
0:01:31 > 0:01:35I wouldn't send my children to a school as diverse as this.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38'And they'll take a look at social integration.'
0:01:38 > 0:01:44We just feel we've outgrown this area. We don't belong here any more.
0:02:04 > 0:02:05I'm Nick Hewer.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08And I'm Margaret Mountford.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11We've come to London to explore the impact of immigration
0:02:11 > 0:02:14on the ordinary man in the street.
0:02:14 > 0:02:19In our lifetimes, immigration in Britain has grown dramatically.
0:02:19 > 0:02:23And this rapid rate of growth has ignited a national debate.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27People in our country are concerned about the pressures and the
0:02:27 > 0:02:30amount of immigration in recent years and I share that concern.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33We need to show we can act on people's concerns about immigration.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36All the main political parties now say
0:02:36 > 0:02:37they want to control immigration.
0:02:37 > 0:02:40We've got to control the quantity and the quality
0:02:40 > 0:02:44of who comes to Britain.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47Every day we read about immigration in the papers, don't we?
0:02:47 > 0:02:51But there are very different views about the impact on jobs,
0:02:51 > 0:02:54public services and communities.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57Surely an issue that has sharply divided the country and,
0:02:57 > 0:03:00over the last ten years, massive consistent immigration,
0:03:00 > 0:03:02but what's the truth about that immigration?
0:03:02 > 0:03:05Is it a gain on the country
0:03:05 > 0:03:07or simply a drain?
0:03:11 > 0:03:14'With more immigrants in the UK than ever before,
0:03:14 > 0:03:17'we've come to crunch the numbers with political scientist
0:03:17 > 0:03:19'Dr Scott Blinder.'
0:03:19 > 0:03:23So who are the immigrants in Britain and where are they coming from?
0:03:23 > 0:03:27The leading countries of origin are India still.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Poland now number two.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31And actually, Pakistan.
0:03:31 > 0:03:35About 13% of the population of the UK as a whole was
0:03:35 > 0:03:37born in another country.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40And where have they settled? Where's the sort of spread?
0:03:40 > 0:03:43The vast majority, over 90% are in England.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46So how many migrants are in the UK at the moment?
0:03:46 > 0:03:47It's just under eight million.
0:03:47 > 0:03:52- Most people come for either work or study.- Scott, you're an American.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54What was your intention? How long did you plan to stay?
0:03:54 > 0:03:57Well, I had a four-year fixed-term contract,
0:03:57 > 0:04:00so I planned to stay three to four years.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02And here you are nine years later?
0:04:02 > 0:04:05Yes, I never envisioned staying here for this long.
0:04:05 > 0:04:07- Typical migrant, Margaret.- Yes.
0:04:07 > 0:04:08SHE CHUCKLES
0:04:10 > 0:04:14In the UK, Margaret, one in seven is an immigrant.
0:04:14 > 0:04:15In London it's higher than that.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18There's three million immigrants here. That's one in three.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20- So we're in the right place then? - Certainly are.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23I think we're going to learn a lot in the next few days.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29We've paired five sets of UK-born Brits,
0:04:29 > 0:04:34all highly critical of immigration, with five sets of immigrants.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40In the first part of our experiment our Brits are going to
0:04:40 > 0:04:43look at the impact of immigration on housing,
0:04:43 > 0:04:45what it means to be British
0:04:45 > 0:04:50and jobs like those in the UK's construction and building industry.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53My point of view is the foreign lads are coming in and basically
0:04:53 > 0:04:56taking all our jobs and undercutting us and stuff like that.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59The first Brit is 21-year-old Jamie.
0:04:59 > 0:05:00Since he left school,
0:05:00 > 0:05:04he's been working on short-term contracts in the building industry.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10He lives at home in south-east London with his father, Andy,
0:05:10 > 0:05:12who is also a builder.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16We've got a problem with immigration, haven't we?
0:05:16 > 0:05:20We all know that. The Government's let the floodgates open
0:05:20 > 0:05:25and there's a lot of immigrants in the construction industry.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29The charity starts at home first before letting other foreign
0:05:29 > 0:05:33countries come into this country and take jobs off English people.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42- Hello there.- Hello. Are you Jamie? - I am indeed.- Margaret.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44- Nice to meet you.- Nice to meet you.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47'Jamie has ambitions to specialise in carpentry.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50'He currently does contract work
0:05:50 > 0:05:54'but feels he can't get the training he needs to further his career.'
0:05:54 > 0:05:57So, the building trade. What's it like at the moment?
0:05:57 > 0:06:01Fairly hard because all the foreign lads are basically coming in
0:06:01 > 0:06:06- and taking the jobs, as it were. - The foreign lads?- Yeah.- From where?
0:06:06 > 0:06:10- Eastern Europe.- Why are they getting the jobs rather than you, then?
0:06:10 > 0:06:13Say for instance the rate is £15 an hour,
0:06:13 > 0:06:16they'll drop it to £11 an hour and the company's laughing all day.
0:06:16 > 0:06:18They're making as much money as possible.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20There's quite a few foreign companies out there
0:06:20 > 0:06:25at the moment that basically just employ all foreign force.
0:06:25 > 0:06:27All the Polish lads will stick together.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30You have words with them, get on with them, say hi and hello,
0:06:30 > 0:06:33but they're mainly always talking in their own language.
0:06:33 > 0:06:35You don't understand.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38I-I don't really like it to be honest, no.
0:06:38 > 0:06:44Just have a stab at what the percentage on a building site
0:06:44 > 0:06:47is made up of in terms of migrant workers.
0:06:47 > 0:06:50Maybe 75 to 85.
0:06:50 > 0:06:54So the skills that Jamie and his generation will, in a sense,
0:06:54 > 0:06:57almost die out...
0:06:57 > 0:07:01because there's nowhere for them to work if it's 75%-80% foreign.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05Do you feel there is a real connection between the number
0:07:05 > 0:07:07of foreign workers coming in
0:07:07 > 0:07:11and the fact that you can't get out and get your own flat?
0:07:11 > 0:07:14I basically want to move out with my girlfriend this year, but it's hard.
0:07:14 > 0:07:19They're taking the jobs, they're taking our places in flats
0:07:19 > 0:07:21and rentals, as it were,
0:07:21 > 0:07:24and we just don't get a look-in.
0:07:24 > 0:07:25It's a joke.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31Jamie is going to be paired with 41-year-old carpenter
0:07:31 > 0:07:33and business owner Mariusz,
0:07:33 > 0:07:37one of over half a million Polish-born now living in the UK.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39England was the dream.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43All of my friends and me as well like to come to England
0:07:43 > 0:07:47because there's a better life in England.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51Mariusz came over ten years ago.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55With no English, he started at the bottom as an unskilled labourer.
0:07:57 > 0:08:03From the beginning, working very hard, so our salary was very low.
0:08:03 > 0:08:09Every night I'm thinking that maybe it's a wrong idea coming to England.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12Six years ago, he was joined by his younger brother, Kris,
0:08:12 > 0:08:15who had no skills in building work.
0:08:15 > 0:08:20Everything what I know now of the building, I learn in England, yeah.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24Mariusz is now joint owner of a bespoke carpentry
0:08:24 > 0:08:27and furniture business in south London.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30All four of his employees are from Poland.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35So what will Jamie make of Mariusz?
0:08:35 > 0:08:38He thinks he's losing out on jobs in the building trade, so the
0:08:38 > 0:08:43first thing he wants to know is why Mariusz only employs Polish workers.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46'I've come here today basically to get some answers.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49'I feel very strongly about my point of view from a young
0:08:49 > 0:08:52'construction worker, British-born and trying to get a job.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54'It's very hard out there and obviously
0:08:54 > 0:08:57'I want to see what this fella's got to say for himself really.'
0:08:57 > 0:09:01- You must be Mariusz?- Jamie. - Nice to meet you, fella.- You too.
0:09:01 > 0:09:06- This is Rafa. He's a specialist of the wood.- Specialist.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08Nice to meet you. I'm Jamie, mate.
0:09:08 > 0:09:10So how long you been over here, Rafa, then?
0:09:10 > 0:09:12MARIUSZ TRANSLATES
0:09:12 > 0:09:15- Six month.- You've only been here six months?- Yeah.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17So you're the wood specialist, as it were, yeah?
0:09:17 > 0:09:20MARIUSZ TRANSLATES
0:09:20 > 0:09:21Yes, professional specialist!
0:09:21 > 0:09:23THEY LAUGH
0:09:23 > 0:09:26Are you finding it hard to learn English?
0:09:26 > 0:09:30MARIUSZ TRANSLATES
0:09:30 > 0:09:31Nyet.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34- No.- No?- No, no.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37'He was having Mariusz translate to me, so that says it all.'
0:09:37 > 0:09:40Obviously, to come to this country, you should at least have some
0:09:40 > 0:09:45sort of inkling to understand English or British, you know.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47But obviously it does piss me off.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52I've got one more person to introduce.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55This is my very good friend from Poland.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58- He's the teacher of the spring. - Right.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00'Meeting Mariusz, he's a nice guy and that,
0:10:00 > 0:10:04'but obviously, he's only got Polish workers working for him.'
0:10:04 > 0:10:06From my point of view, that's not good.
0:10:06 > 0:10:10In this country you've got to have some sort of British-born
0:10:10 > 0:10:12working for you
0:10:12 > 0:10:15because it's not fair.
0:10:15 > 0:10:19How comes you haven't employed any English workers, basically?
0:10:19 > 0:10:23For instance, Rafa is a wood specialist.
0:10:23 > 0:10:25How come you had to go all the way home to Poland
0:10:25 > 0:10:27to get a wood specialist?
0:10:27 > 0:10:29Is there not any good wood specialists locally
0:10:29 > 0:10:31or in England, no?
0:10:31 > 0:10:34The job have to be perfect and the finish,
0:10:34 > 0:10:39so I can't take on someone who doesn't know nothing about the job.
0:10:39 > 0:10:43So I take my brother. I take my friends what I know.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46From my point of view, we was born in this country,
0:10:46 > 0:10:48so therefore we should get a look-in first.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50That's what I'm trying to say, cos it annoys me...
0:10:50 > 0:10:53Yes, that is the free market.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56Yeah, obviously I understand that,
0:10:56 > 0:10:58but you've got to see it from the company's point of view.
0:10:58 > 0:11:03If they can get someone for £10 an hour, £5 less than what I'm getting,
0:11:03 > 0:11:07and work like a horse and get spoken to like a piece of crap
0:11:07 > 0:11:10by the foreman, and obviously that makes us look bad.
0:11:10 > 0:11:17When I am starting my carpentry company,
0:11:17 > 0:11:21my salary weekly was 151.97 on the beginning.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24What about you, Kris? Did you...
0:11:24 > 0:11:26I come to England seven years ago.
0:11:26 > 0:11:29I get 5.55 per hour.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33- That was the lowest money you can get.- Minimum wage, yeah.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37What I'm saying is lads come in from Eastern Europe
0:11:37 > 0:11:42and actually undercut us, cos I've been on loads of different jobs,
0:11:42 > 0:11:47different firms, yeah, and undercut us and basically take our jobs.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51'Although Mariusz started off below minimum wage,
0:11:51 > 0:11:53'he now pays his workers the going rate.
0:11:53 > 0:11:57'But, for Jamie, it's not just about the money.'
0:11:57 > 0:12:01I think that's just crap, to be honest, that he can't find
0:12:01 > 0:12:05no-one young and English willing to learn.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07There's loads of people out there.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09I'm one of them
0:12:09 > 0:12:12and I've got loads of mates who are willing to do stuff like that.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16It's just trying to get the opportunity to get it sort of thing.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22'Is Jamie right? Are immigrants taking jobs?'
0:12:22 > 0:12:26What are the big worries for the ordinary guy on the street?
0:12:26 > 0:12:29Partly economics.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Just the straightforward downward pressure on wages.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34It's just economic common sense.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37If you have a million people coming in, as we did after 2004
0:12:37 > 0:12:39when we opened up to Eastern Europe, many of them
0:12:39 > 0:12:42aiming to do quite basic, low-skilled jobs,
0:12:42 > 0:12:43even though many of them
0:12:43 > 0:12:46are quite well qualified, there is some job displacement.
0:12:46 > 0:12:48Obviously, a lot of people who come here,
0:12:48 > 0:12:50create jobs that wouldn't have been created otherwise.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52They complement existing workers.
0:12:52 > 0:12:54It's not all a bad story by any means.
0:12:54 > 0:12:58Are we building up some pressure that's going to cause us
0:12:58 > 0:13:00trouble in the future?
0:13:00 > 0:13:03One of the problems with large-scale immigration
0:13:03 > 0:13:06and the choice that it provides to employers,
0:13:06 > 0:13:08small, medium-sized and large,
0:13:08 > 0:13:13is that it tends to encourage
0:13:13 > 0:13:15some of the worst tendencies in the British economy.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19Short-termism, lack of investment, lack of investment in training.
0:13:19 > 0:13:24You know, why train a difficult school-leaver when you can just
0:13:24 > 0:13:27pluck off the shelf somebody who may already have the qualification?
0:13:27 > 0:13:29You see this in the health service.
0:13:35 > 0:13:3940 miles from London in Southend-on-Sea, ex-Londoner
0:13:39 > 0:13:42and retired court clerk John has had personal
0:13:42 > 0:13:45experience of immigrant health workers in the health service.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48I think overall immigration is a bad thing for this country.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50When my mother was in hospital,
0:13:50 > 0:13:55she had a lot of problems with people who were clearly migrants,
0:13:55 > 0:13:57from all parts of the globe,
0:13:57 > 0:14:01who...had a different approach to care.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05Who sometimes came across as brusque, no understanding
0:14:05 > 0:14:07and, quite apart from the language barrier,
0:14:07 > 0:14:11and she felt like she was in an alien world.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15Filipino Rommel came to London 13 years ago
0:14:15 > 0:14:18when, as part of an ongoing recruitment programme
0:14:18 > 0:14:20between the UK and the Philippines,
0:14:20 > 0:14:25his wife Cherry was employed as a nurse to work for the NHS.
0:14:25 > 0:14:30There was recruitment done in the Philippines for registered nurses,
0:14:30 > 0:14:35so my wife came over and started working in a care home.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39Rommel was able to come to the UK as a dependant on his wife's
0:14:39 > 0:14:41skilled worker's visa.
0:14:41 > 0:14:45I was working for a congressman in the Philippines
0:14:45 > 0:14:51and giving up my job to come to the UK was a risk and it was scary.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53Rommel now works in a home for people with
0:14:53 > 0:14:55epilepsy and special needs,
0:14:55 > 0:15:00one of the 60% of care workers in London who are foreign-born.
0:15:00 > 0:15:05I did not imagine myself to be working in the healthcare sector
0:15:05 > 0:15:10but I would say most of the Filipinos, we are caring by nature.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13What will John make of Rommel?
0:15:13 > 0:15:16Will he think he's a gain or a drain?
0:15:16 > 0:15:20Quite looking forward to meeting this gentleman I'm going to see.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23Don't know what to expect, but I've got a few ideas.
0:15:23 > 0:15:28I mean, I approach a lot of these things in a very generic way,
0:15:28 > 0:15:34which is, mainly because of the media, I suppose, um,
0:15:34 > 0:15:37people are here to take and not to give anything.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43Rommel and his family live in Norbury, south London.
0:15:43 > 0:15:48Clearly it's an area that's got a population of
0:15:48 > 0:15:49very diverse backgrounds.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51Multicultural certainly.
0:15:51 > 0:15:58Services that are for all different religions, backgrounds.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02Obviously, it's not an established English area, if you like.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07Rommel's home is part of a shared ownership scheme
0:16:07 > 0:16:09of which he owns half.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15- Oh, hi, hi, hi. Welcome, welcome, welcome.- Hello.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19So, Cherry, what made you come to England in the first place?
0:16:19 > 0:16:21I love to travel.
0:16:21 > 0:16:27Yeah, and then when this opportunity came I just grabbed it.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30So was there not jobs in the Philippines?
0:16:30 > 0:16:32No, I was working there as a head nurse
0:16:32 > 0:16:35but the salary's not the same as here.
0:16:35 > 0:16:3915 times more. More than 15 times.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43'She communicates very well.'
0:16:43 > 0:16:47If you have people who we rely on, you've got to be able to communicate
0:16:47 > 0:16:51with them and especially if you're in hospital when you're vulnerable.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55Especially if you're dealing with old people who are vulnerable.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58I'm very interested in what you would
0:16:58 > 0:17:00think I think about immigration.
0:17:00 > 0:17:04That migrant is going to take all our jobs, is going
0:17:04 > 0:17:08- to be a burden to the healthcare industry.- Yeah.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11How do you think it is in reality then?
0:17:11 > 0:17:16Talking about, um, migrants getting the jobs.
0:17:16 > 0:17:20We were recruited so that means there was really a shortage here.
0:17:20 > 0:17:26If indigenous British are really keen of doing healthcare,
0:17:26 > 0:17:31you know, hotels, there are jobs there.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34What you're saying is you're taking jobs that people aren't
0:17:34 > 0:17:36prepared to do?
0:17:36 > 0:17:40- Yes.- Yeah. - They don't like dealing with blood.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42They don't like wiping bums.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46They don't like nothing about personal care.
0:17:46 > 0:17:47Well, there is that,
0:17:47 > 0:17:54but my point is that there is a lot of people coming here,
0:17:54 > 0:17:59a LOT of people coming, and we're basically,
0:17:59 > 0:18:01if you put it crudely, we're full up.
0:18:01 > 0:18:05'John is using migrant workers'
0:18:05 > 0:18:10as a scapegoat to what is happening in our society.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15John wants to see what Rommel does at work.
0:18:15 > 0:18:19The care home provides support to enable people with epilepsy
0:18:19 > 0:18:24- and learning difficulties to lead independent lives.- Oh, right, OK.
0:18:24 > 0:18:29- So what are we doing here, Mel? - Cutting garlic bread.- Right, OK.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32Mel lives in Brighton.
0:18:32 > 0:18:37I would say Mel is so proud of it that she is now travel-trained
0:18:37 > 0:18:40to go to Brighton, to travel to Brighton on her own.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44It would take even years just to achieve one goal.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47- Do you like it here?- Yes, I do.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51- Are the people nice?- Yes, thank you.
0:18:51 > 0:18:56- Is that OK if I borrow John for a sec?- Yes.- Yeah?- Thank you.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59Here we are. Jane.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02So how do you find it here? Do you like it here?
0:19:02 > 0:19:06- Very good.- Thank you very much, Jane.
0:19:06 > 0:19:10Rommel is a great member
0:19:10 > 0:19:12who I rely on a lot.
0:19:12 > 0:19:18With the work that we do, we always make sure that, when we're talking
0:19:18 > 0:19:22to our service users, it is done not in a threatening way,
0:19:22 > 0:19:27so we don't do it like that. We are trained as a specialist service.
0:19:27 > 0:19:29It's always eye-to-eye contact,
0:19:29 > 0:19:33- so the service users are able to relate to us.- Yeah.
0:19:33 > 0:19:39'When I see myself that one or two of our service users'
0:19:39 > 0:19:45are living independently because of the work that I did,
0:19:45 > 0:19:51because of the that work migrant workers did, you know,
0:19:51 > 0:19:55I feel like an overwhelming feeling
0:19:55 > 0:19:59I have contributed, you know, to society.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02# Happy birthday to you... #
0:20:02 > 0:20:03For this type of work,
0:20:03 > 0:20:08someone in Rommel's position gets on average £19,000 a year.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11You've come from a different part of the world.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15Did you have precisely the same training that would suit you to this
0:20:15 > 0:20:18work in precisely the same way as somebody
0:20:18 > 0:20:20in the United Kingdom would have had that training?
0:20:20 > 0:20:25One of the reasons why they prefer hiring migrants to come
0:20:25 > 0:20:26and work in the UK is
0:20:26 > 0:20:31because of the skill set that is already available to these people.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33It's really top-notch.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35In my case, for example,
0:20:35 > 0:20:39I have completed my university in the Philippines
0:20:39 > 0:20:44and coming to the UK it's not like I'm going to start from scratch.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47There's another issue here and that is language.
0:20:47 > 0:20:51My mother was in a hospital very seriously ill
0:20:51 > 0:20:56and I had a lot of trouble communicating with the senior
0:20:56 > 0:21:03people in the ward and the nurses who had language problems.
0:21:03 > 0:21:07But worse than that, I saw her medical notes
0:21:07 > 0:21:11and I saw what was written down and I had to get it corrected.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13It would just be the same.
0:21:13 > 0:21:17There would be, you know, you know, indigenous British who would
0:21:17 > 0:21:19make those mistakes.
0:21:19 > 0:21:23People in the UK can not even spell,
0:21:23 > 0:21:26you know, correct English.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31I certainly learned a little bit more about Rommel as a person
0:21:31 > 0:21:35through seeing where he works. Very interesting to see where he works.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38Not an environment I'm particularly familiar with,
0:21:38 > 0:21:42but I have been in similar places with my own relatives,
0:21:42 > 0:21:44parents, grandparents, that sort of thing.
0:21:44 > 0:21:46Um...
0:21:46 > 0:21:50I haven't really changed my views in any way at all.
0:21:56 > 0:22:0022-year-old waitress Marilyn left France a year ago to find
0:22:00 > 0:22:01work in the capital.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05- Here's your portion of chips. - Thank you very much.- You're welcome.
0:22:05 > 0:22:09Marilyn is one of a growing number of immigrants who make up over
0:22:09 > 0:22:12half the workforce in the restaurant and hotel trade in London.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16I leave France because firstly I wanted to learn English
0:22:16 > 0:22:21and learn the culture of English people and English ways.
0:22:21 > 0:22:26As well cos sometimes you need to learn to be independent.
0:22:28 > 0:22:33Marilyn works around 45 hours a week and earns £7 an hour plus tips.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38If you really want to work hard you can find a job like this
0:22:38 > 0:22:44cos there is shop and fast food and bar everywhere.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47I think they need people to work.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52Marilyn will be paired with 24-year-old Michael from Romford,
0:22:52 > 0:22:54east London.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56He's been out of work for two years
0:22:56 > 0:22:59and receives Jobseeker Allowance and Housing Benefit.
0:22:59 > 0:23:04Not being in work is properly boring.
0:23:05 > 0:23:09Searching for a job so much now, it is draining.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12I've tried going for warehouse work.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14There's nothing there.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17I've gone for gardening. I tried going for painting.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19If ever they do get back to you, they say,
0:23:19 > 0:23:21"Oh, sorry, you didn't fit the criteria."
0:23:21 > 0:23:24I do voluntary maintenance.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28I'll just go in there and I'll just look for things to do that
0:23:28 > 0:23:32don't really need doing, just so I'm not bored.
0:23:32 > 0:23:34Then it's the walk home,
0:23:34 > 0:23:38go to bed and then the really boring day starts again.
0:23:41 > 0:23:44I do think immigrants will get a job faster than me
0:23:44 > 0:23:46because of how much they charge.
0:23:46 > 0:23:50I don't know how immigrants can work for such a little wage.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53Michael is also frustrated about the living conditions
0:23:53 > 0:23:56immigrants are prepared to put up with.
0:23:56 > 0:24:01I know, as a fact, immigrants cram themselves into a house.
0:24:01 > 0:24:06There's too many groups taking the properties that should be
0:24:06 > 0:24:09left for the British people for when they want to move out.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14Marilyn lives in a shared house in north-west London
0:24:14 > 0:24:17with 19 other immigrants.
0:24:17 > 0:24:19Yeah, in this kind of sharing house,
0:24:19 > 0:24:24you have to share almost everything here. You have to share the kitchen.
0:24:24 > 0:24:29The kitchen. The living room, where we spend most of the time.
0:24:29 > 0:24:31That's my room.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35To save money, Marilyn shares her bedroom with her best friend Abel.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39For our clothes, only this.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43Yeah, only one wardrobe for two so it's like all my shoes.
0:24:43 > 0:24:48It's half and half. We try and make it practical so we live in two beds.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55And this one on the floor like this. We don't have choice!
0:24:55 > 0:25:01- It was not difficult to find a job. - For you, no.- For me, one week.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04It's like a football match.
0:25:04 > 0:25:06At home.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09And the away team's come here with a fantastic plan,
0:25:09 > 0:25:13and it's just complete and utterly paid off for them.
0:25:14 > 0:25:17That's what it sort of feels like.
0:25:17 > 0:25:21You know, if I can't even win at home, where am I going to win?
0:25:23 > 0:25:28'Michael is one of 334,000 unemployed living in London.'
0:25:28 > 0:25:29Well, thank you.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32'So how did Marilyn find work?'
0:25:32 > 0:25:35- Did you find it easy to get a job when you arrived?- Yeah.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37More or less, yeah.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39I was looking for in my speciality, in the shoes shop.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42My English was not so good for do it here.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Then I went to find a job in, like, a waitress,
0:25:46 > 0:25:50in a tourist place like this, and then I find really quick.
0:25:50 > 0:25:53- But you were flexible, then?- Yeah.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56Because you wanted to work in a shoe shop, you wanted to work in shoes,
0:25:56 > 0:26:00- but when you couldn't find that you tried something else. - I try a waitress.
0:26:00 > 0:26:04It's interesting, isn't it, Marilyn, that you found a job pretty quickly
0:26:04 > 0:26:09and yet there are a lot of young English unemployed people who struggle.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12- Yeah.- Who say they struggle. - There is no...- Why?
0:26:12 > 0:26:16What's the secret of getting a job as quickly as you did?
0:26:16 > 0:26:21I think the secret is, like, really want to work, and...
0:26:21 > 0:26:24If you really want to have a job,
0:26:24 > 0:26:28- you can make sure you will find quick.- Thank you.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31That's the famous Yorkshire pudding.
0:26:31 > 0:26:33'Marilyn's boss has thoughts of his own.'
0:26:33 > 0:26:38English people don't want to work in the catering trade.
0:26:38 > 0:26:39If you go in any hotel,
0:26:39 > 0:26:42any restaurant in central London, I think you...
0:26:42 > 0:26:45Difficult to find someone that's English.
0:26:45 > 0:26:47Do you not get any British applications?
0:26:47 > 0:26:52- I think, in 27 years, maybe 10 people.- That's all?
0:26:52 > 0:26:56- And how many... - How many did I employ?- Yeah.
0:26:56 > 0:26:57Probably three or four.
0:26:57 > 0:26:59What would you say to a young English person
0:26:59 > 0:27:02who said, "Oh, I can't get a job, I've tried and I've tried,"
0:27:02 > 0:27:03what would you say to them?
0:27:03 > 0:27:05Try harder.
0:27:05 > 0:27:07Try harder. Go around,
0:27:07 > 0:27:12go around with CVs, walk in and say, "I need a job,
0:27:12 > 0:27:15"here's my number, here's my address."
0:27:15 > 0:27:17That's what all the others do.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22She's prepared to live in a house sharing with 19 others,
0:27:22 > 0:27:25so it's not exactly a luxury lifestyle, but...
0:27:25 > 0:27:26She's young, Margaret.
0:27:26 > 0:27:30She's young, she's a 22-year-old kid, and all the others
0:27:30 > 0:27:33are youngsters, and actually that's what young people do, that's
0:27:33 > 0:27:38part of the fun and the excitement of living in London, I guess.
0:27:38 > 0:27:39She's not complaining, is she?
0:27:39 > 0:27:43No, she's not complaining, but then why don't we see groups of youngsters
0:27:43 > 0:27:46who are from other parts of the UK coming and doing that?
0:27:46 > 0:27:48Good question.
0:27:49 > 0:27:54With rents in the capital now averaging £1,500 a month,
0:27:54 > 0:27:58Michael wants to know how Marilyn can afford to live in London.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01What I don't understand is how immigrants can come to Great Britain
0:28:01 > 0:28:06and live for less, which is enabling them to work for less.
0:28:06 > 0:28:10So it's a big house, we are 20 to live here.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13And people from all around the world.
0:28:13 > 0:28:16Right now it's quiet cos everybody working.
0:28:16 > 0:28:19Most of the people in the house are waiter,
0:28:19 > 0:28:23are working, like, Pret A Manger...or Pure.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26You know, this kind of shop.
0:28:27 > 0:28:31The first thing he wants to find out is how much rent she pays.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34So how much would one of these rooms sort of cost?
0:28:34 > 0:28:38I live with my best friend so we share the price every week,
0:28:38 > 0:28:41so it's 55 each.
0:28:41 > 0:28:45I have to pay... 180 a week.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48- It's expensive, it's more expensive than...- It's a lot expensive.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52Michael believes many immigrants happily work for less than
0:28:52 > 0:28:56the minimum wage, so next he'll quiz Marilyn about her pay.
0:28:56 > 0:29:00Because your rent is so low, does that enable you to, like,
0:29:00 > 0:29:04- work for less wages?- I work a lot and I get paid normally.
0:29:04 > 0:29:09- So how much would you earn, say, in a week?- 300.
0:29:09 > 0:29:14So on 300-plus a week I could probably live where I'm living
0:29:14 > 0:29:16and still live life as I'd most probably want to.
0:29:16 > 0:29:18Is that the same throughout the house?
0:29:18 > 0:29:22Yeah, all of us starts for the minimum wage.
0:29:22 > 0:29:25Cos I was more or less under the assumption that, you know,
0:29:25 > 0:29:28immigrants come over, they work for less,
0:29:28 > 0:29:30and you automatically think that...
0:29:30 > 0:29:33they might just live for less as well.
0:29:33 > 0:29:38I get a normal pay and... I've got a normal rent here.
0:29:39 > 0:29:42I've got to go, due to a government scheme,
0:29:42 > 0:29:45work programme that I'm on, trying to find work.
0:29:45 > 0:29:49- And me go at work. - And you've got to go to work!
0:29:49 > 0:29:52I was expecting her to either be on minimum wage or just below it,
0:29:52 > 0:29:57but the fact that she's earning money that...
0:29:57 > 0:30:02the same money as jobs that I've applied for,
0:30:02 > 0:30:05you know, the...it's really weird,
0:30:05 > 0:30:07the fact that she can...
0:30:07 > 0:30:10I mean, she must have loads of savings, cos...
0:30:10 > 0:30:13she's only paying like £55 rent a week.
0:30:13 > 0:30:17I mean, I couldn't cram myself into a house
0:30:17 > 0:30:19and then just pay minimal rent.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22That's a little bit wrong, at the end of the day.
0:30:25 > 0:30:28But it's not just jobs and housing that matter,
0:30:28 > 0:30:31it's also the way we live.
0:30:31 > 0:30:33The rapid transformation of communities
0:30:33 > 0:30:38when new groups come in is a huge cause of concern for some people.
0:30:38 > 0:30:39You can see it's difficult for people
0:30:39 > 0:30:43if their area is swamped by immigration, can't you?
0:30:43 > 0:30:47A large group of people from one particular ethnic group come in
0:30:47 > 0:30:52- and the nature of the area and the community changes.- Yeah, absolutely.
0:30:52 > 0:30:54They've grown up there,
0:30:54 > 0:30:58suddenly the neighbours are all actually not mixing with them,
0:30:58 > 0:31:01the shops change, the schools change,
0:31:01 > 0:31:06and they feel sort of dispossessed, and what they always thought
0:31:06 > 0:31:10they would grow up with suddenly changes, sometimes late in life.
0:31:13 > 0:31:16Retired couple Ted and Margaret have lived in Ilford,
0:31:16 > 0:31:20north-east London, for more than 40 years.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22Well, you do wonder what they are, don't you?
0:31:22 > 0:31:25How would you set about cooking those?
0:31:25 > 0:31:28Their borough is the fourth most ethnically diverse
0:31:28 > 0:31:30local authority in the country.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33We've been here 40-odd years.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35It's changed dramatically.
0:31:35 > 0:31:39When we first moved here the road was predominantly
0:31:39 > 0:31:41indigenous white people.
0:31:41 > 0:31:46There was probably five or six, er, immigrant families, and
0:31:46 > 0:31:52since that period the numbers have gone completely the other way round.
0:31:52 > 0:31:56I think we're at saturation point. There's not been enough integration.
0:31:56 > 0:31:59There's no part for us here.
0:31:59 > 0:32:03You eventually come to the decision that you're going to have to
0:32:03 > 0:32:06join the white flight, and move out.
0:32:06 > 0:32:09- Hello.- Hello.- I'm Margaret, you're Ted?- Yes.
0:32:09 > 0:32:11So what does immigration mean to you?
0:32:11 > 0:32:13What do you think about immigration?
0:32:13 > 0:32:16I think it's changed our way of life.
0:32:16 > 0:32:21Used you to feel there was a community here, and has that changed?
0:32:21 > 0:32:23Yes, obviously it has.
0:32:23 > 0:32:26We've got fine neighbours, I mean, we all get on well,
0:32:26 > 0:32:28but it's difficult to hold conversations with them
0:32:28 > 0:32:32because a lot of them don't speak good English,
0:32:32 > 0:32:36other than the pleasantries of "good morning" and "how are you?"
0:32:36 > 0:32:41But what does being part of a community mean to you?
0:32:41 > 0:32:45Well, for instance, I wanted to start singing in a singing group
0:32:45 > 0:32:50and for this part of Ilford there would be nothing for me.
0:32:50 > 0:32:55When we came here there was a dance studio, there were billiard halls.
0:32:55 > 0:33:00I think the billiard hall's gone. Erm...the dance school's gone.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04So in a sense, then, your community's been taken away,
0:33:04 > 0:33:07- strangers in your own land?- Well, you've got nowhere to go to meet...
0:33:07 > 0:33:11- Your neighbours.- ..your friends and your neighbours, yeah.
0:33:14 > 0:33:17It's about age as much as anything else,
0:33:17 > 0:33:20because here they are, in the sort of final chapter of their lives,
0:33:20 > 0:33:23feeling that they don't belong any more
0:33:23 > 0:33:28and that they've got to move into a community like in the old days.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32Ted and Margaret wanted to integrate but they felt they couldn't
0:33:32 > 0:33:36because of language and customs, and they're probably right,
0:33:36 > 0:33:39it probably isn't integrable in the sense that they mean.
0:33:39 > 0:33:43It's not that there is a community that they're excluded from,
0:33:43 > 0:33:45it's just that there's no community.
0:33:48 > 0:33:52The largest migrant population in their local area comes from Pakistan.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56All right, you are behind the cyclist.
0:33:56 > 0:33:59SHE SPEAKS SOUTH ASIAN LANGUAGE
0:33:59 > 0:34:03To further her career in education, Naseem, a former school principal,
0:34:03 > 0:34:10came over from Pakistani in 2009 on a Highly Skilled Migrant visa.
0:34:10 > 0:34:13To this bright, sunny, fabulous...
0:34:13 > 0:34:18This visa allowed husband Rahat to join her three years later.
0:34:18 > 0:34:22Back in Pakistan I was a principal of a school and it was a school
0:34:22 > 0:34:28from primary to GCSE, so there were more than 800 children at that time.
0:34:28 > 0:34:31There were two, three reasons to bring me here.
0:34:31 > 0:34:35Number one, my spouse, my wife was here,
0:34:35 > 0:34:42and she was struggling alone, and in Pakistan there are several problems.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45Politically I'm a person of a peace mind
0:34:45 > 0:34:48and I would like to embark in this country,
0:34:48 > 0:34:51to live and explore it as well,
0:34:51 > 0:34:56so these were the reasons to...brought me here.
0:34:56 > 0:34:58SHE SPEAKS SOUTH ASIAN LANGUAGE
0:34:58 > 0:35:01Now they've invested all their savings into starting up
0:35:01 > 0:35:05a business, running an adult education college
0:35:05 > 0:35:08teaching, among other things, English for speakers of other languages.
0:35:11 > 0:35:15They live and work just a short distance from Ted and Margaret.
0:35:15 > 0:35:18- What number again?- 28 to 42.
0:35:19 > 0:35:21Well, it's interesting,
0:35:21 > 0:35:25because this isn't the only language school down here.
0:35:25 > 0:35:29We're passing one here, there's another one further down.
0:35:30 > 0:35:34Ted and Margaret feel ESOL, or English-language schools,
0:35:34 > 0:35:38just encourage more immigrants to their area.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42Well, we have had mixed reports about language schools.
0:35:42 > 0:35:44Erm, some of them, erm, may...
0:35:44 > 0:35:48Well, I believe they have quite large government grants
0:35:48 > 0:35:52given to them, and some of them aren't all above board,
0:35:52 > 0:35:54and there's been fraudulent dealings going on,
0:35:54 > 0:35:57so we will be interested to see what's happening here.
0:35:58 > 0:36:02First they want to know what exactly is being taught at the school.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05Just reading out the English courses,
0:36:05 > 0:36:09there's Life in UK Course and there's Citizenship Course.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13Well, it seems to me that this is all orientated around
0:36:13 > 0:36:14people coming to stay,
0:36:14 > 0:36:17and I'm not sure that the level of English
0:36:17 > 0:36:20that they're going to teach to
0:36:20 > 0:36:25will be sufficient to integrate into our way of life.
0:36:25 > 0:36:28- Hello.- Hello, hello. Nice to meet you.- Good afternoon. Welcome, sir.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31- I'm Ted. This is Margaret. - Hello. Good afternoon.
0:36:31 > 0:36:35Next, Ted and Margaret want to find out how the school is being funded.
0:36:35 > 0:36:40The students that are here for citizenship knowledge,
0:36:40 > 0:36:42they pay a fee.
0:36:42 > 0:36:45Now, is that self-funded or comes through a government grant?
0:36:45 > 0:36:50No, it's self-paid by the individual who take this test.
0:36:50 > 0:36:56Er, I believe there is no category that they are supported
0:36:56 > 0:36:59by the...public fund or the Government.
0:36:59 > 0:37:03Well, the only source of income is from preparing people
0:37:03 > 0:37:06for their citizenship qualification.
0:37:06 > 0:37:10That's paid for, erm, privately, which I didn't understand,
0:37:10 > 0:37:13I thought that was the Government.
0:37:13 > 0:37:16I will show you my ESOL class. Yes, yes.
0:37:16 > 0:37:17Yes, please.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20Hello.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23Although the majority of classes are paid for by the students...
0:37:23 > 0:37:27So today our topic is My Family.
0:37:27 > 0:37:31..Rahat and Naseem also provide conversational English lessons
0:37:31 > 0:37:36free of charge to immigrants from a variety of countries.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39So we are very interested to know about your family.
0:37:39 > 0:37:44My parents are in Albania, my two brothers are in Albania.
0:37:44 > 0:37:49- Yes, Rubina, introduce yourself. - I came from Saudi Arabia.
0:37:49 > 0:37:54- So why did you move in this country? - After married I'm, er, coming here.
0:37:54 > 0:37:58- To practise my job. - Because of education.
0:37:58 > 0:38:02It's really important to repay your country
0:38:02 > 0:38:05as a contribution as individual.
0:38:05 > 0:38:11Therefore, we have started English classes for those whom you can say
0:38:11 > 0:38:12they can't pay.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15And where is your in-laws live?
0:38:15 > 0:38:18- Er, they lives in... - "They live in..."- ..in UK.
0:38:18 > 0:38:22Well, our main concern is that these establishments,
0:38:22 > 0:38:24these English schools,
0:38:24 > 0:38:29are here predominantly to enable people to stay
0:38:29 > 0:38:35by getting them through the citizenship qualification,
0:38:35 > 0:38:41and this just means that they're compounding the problem that we've already got.
0:38:41 > 0:38:45There's sufficient people here
0:38:45 > 0:38:50without using the system to bring even more in.
0:38:54 > 0:38:57Unemployed Michael thinks immigration
0:38:57 > 0:39:00has made it harder for him to find work.
0:39:00 > 0:39:03It's almost like they've all got to be invited over.
0:39:03 > 0:39:08It's weird, it is like... rolling out a carpet. It's too easy.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14But French waitress Marilyn doesn't think he's trying hard enough.
0:39:15 > 0:39:19For me there is a lot of job in London
0:39:19 > 0:39:24and probably...he's a bit lazy to find a job.
0:39:24 > 0:39:27To prove to Marilyn how tough it is, Michael has invited her
0:39:27 > 0:39:29to Romford where he lives
0:39:29 > 0:39:33to show her just how much effort he's putting in to find work.
0:39:34 > 0:39:38So that's Seetec over there, the big building there.
0:39:38 > 0:39:42Michael does almost all his job searches through Seetec,
0:39:42 > 0:39:46a government-funded welfare-to-work and skills-training programme.
0:39:47 > 0:39:50So which kind of job did you apply for?
0:39:50 > 0:39:53I'm basically sort of just applying for the warehouse.
0:39:53 > 0:39:56So within two weeks you're doing, like, 60 applications.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59You pump yourself up, you think, yeah, let's go,
0:39:59 > 0:40:02I can apply for that. Sounds really good.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06But then, three weeks later, you still haven't heard nothing.
0:40:06 > 0:40:13Why don't you try to apply...another job, be more flexible like me?
0:40:13 > 0:40:17Like, I used to selling shoes and luxury shoes in France
0:40:17 > 0:40:22and I never been waitress. Now it's easy for me.
0:40:22 > 0:40:25I tend to find when I make myself more flexible
0:40:25 > 0:40:27I get more opportunities to come up
0:40:27 > 0:40:31and then...they just sort of never happen.
0:40:31 > 0:40:33You do only online.
0:40:33 > 0:40:35It's better for a shop that you go
0:40:35 > 0:40:40and show this yourself directly with the manager or the boss.
0:40:40 > 0:40:45What do you think, if you try to apply in this kind of shop...
0:40:45 > 0:40:49You know, I don't know nothing about these sort of shops,
0:40:49 > 0:40:52I don't know nothing about these sort of organisations or businesses.
0:40:52 > 0:40:57I don't want to be inside, closed in. You know?
0:40:57 > 0:41:00And I start to understand...why he don't get job,
0:41:00 > 0:41:03it's because he looking only in his...speciality
0:41:03 > 0:41:06and he don't want to get any job anywhere.
0:41:06 > 0:41:10- Did you already try in this one? - Yeah, yeah, let's try that one.
0:41:10 > 0:41:14When Marilyn came to the UK she got her first job through an agency.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17- She wants Michael to try the same thing.- Hi, Michael.
0:41:17 > 0:41:19- WOMAN:- Want to come and take a seat?
0:41:19 > 0:41:21Hi, what can I do for you?
0:41:21 > 0:41:23Erm, my friend Michael looking for a job.
0:41:23 > 0:41:27That's lovely. And what sort of work is it you're actually looking for, Michael?
0:41:27 > 0:41:31- Warehouse work.- Warehouse work? - Yeah.- Have you been to agencies?
0:41:31 > 0:41:34Erm, I used to be on an agency but...it was no good.
0:41:34 > 0:41:35Just one agency?
0:41:35 > 0:41:38You live locally, so one would assume that
0:41:38 > 0:41:41if you're sort of really proactive in looking for work
0:41:41 > 0:41:44you would have registered with all the recruitment companies
0:41:44 > 0:41:47rather than...you said you just registered with one.
0:41:47 > 0:41:50It may be that, you know, you're not being as proactive locally
0:41:50 > 0:41:53as perhaps you could be being.
0:41:53 > 0:41:54You know, like, we're here
0:41:54 > 0:41:57and you've not registered here before today.
0:41:57 > 0:42:01I mean, I've never really noticed this agency, like, the doorway.
0:42:01 > 0:42:03I'm not usually looking up...
0:42:03 > 0:42:09Michael think that...immigrates gets advantage for get a job
0:42:09 > 0:42:11here in London. Is that true?
0:42:11 > 0:42:15With immigrants, they're perhaps, erm...
0:42:15 > 0:42:18more eager and perhaps a bit more flexible.
0:42:18 > 0:42:22I think you can probably learn some stuff from Marilyn and it's a good thing that you've met, I think,
0:42:22 > 0:42:26because, you know, she has had to get off her backside and just do it for herself
0:42:26 > 0:42:29because there is nobody else here to help her to do that.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32I mean, I think you have a bit of a confidence issue, to be fair.
0:42:32 > 0:42:37- I do, yeah. - I think that somebody needs to grab you by the collar and sort you out.
0:42:38 > 0:42:42It was slightly embarrassing just to think, well...
0:42:44 > 0:42:48..if she can do it, why can't I? You know, what am I doing wrong?
0:42:48 > 0:42:51Makes me feel a little bit silly as well in a way.
0:42:56 > 0:42:58Concerns about the pressure on jobs
0:42:58 > 0:43:00isn't the only thing that worries some.
0:43:00 > 0:43:04In south-east London, 21-year-old Jamie thinks immigration is
0:43:04 > 0:43:07also putting the squeeze on housing.
0:43:07 > 0:43:09He's desperate to move out of his dad's
0:43:09 > 0:43:12and into a place of his own with girlfriend Bex.
0:43:12 > 0:43:15That's my bedroom and obviously this is Dad's bedroom,
0:43:15 > 0:43:18and as you can see it's very close together,
0:43:18 > 0:43:20so that can be a factor, obviously,
0:43:20 > 0:43:25why we want to get out of this house and underneath my father's feet.
0:43:25 > 0:43:28With London attracting more immigrants than anywhere else
0:43:28 > 0:43:31in the UK, they feel competition for housing has increased.
0:43:31 > 0:43:33London is overcrowded.
0:43:33 > 0:43:37I think where a lot of people come over to the UK,
0:43:37 > 0:43:39because obviously it is the land of opportunities,
0:43:39 > 0:43:43but that leaves people who are from London in a massive problem,
0:43:43 > 0:43:47because the people who are landlords, and I don't blame them,
0:43:47 > 0:43:50it gives them the right to put up their rent,
0:43:50 > 0:43:53because they know that there's automatic desire to
0:43:53 > 0:43:58live in those areas and they know that they'll get the rent.
0:43:58 > 0:44:00But is Bex right?
0:44:00 > 0:44:02Jamie, who lives out in south-east London, has come
0:44:02 > 0:44:06to upmarket Fulham near the centre of town.
0:44:06 > 0:44:10He wants to check out the flat which Polish carpenter Mariusz
0:44:10 > 0:44:12rents in the area.
0:44:12 > 0:44:14Seems quite posh round here, to be honest.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17Erm, the perception I got on Eastern Europeans
0:44:17 > 0:44:21wouldn't live in such nice areas, I thought they lived in, sort of,
0:44:21 > 0:44:27ghettos, as it were, in... all crammed together and...yeah...
0:44:27 > 0:44:29It seems rather nice round here.
0:44:31 > 0:44:33- This is your...- Have a seat.
0:44:33 > 0:44:38- There's my wife... Barbara.- Hi. Nice to meet you.
0:44:38 > 0:44:40Nice to meet you, I'm Jamie.
0:44:40 > 0:44:43MARGARET: Mariusz, his wife and three-year-old son have lived
0:44:43 > 0:44:46in their one-bedroom flat for three years.
0:44:47 > 0:44:52- This is little...- Jan's... Jan's room. Yes.- It's nice.
0:44:52 > 0:44:55- So this is the kitchen? - This is the kitchen.
0:44:55 > 0:44:58- It is big enough. - So, what do you do for a living?
0:44:58 > 0:45:00If you don't mind me asking?
0:45:00 > 0:45:03Er, I work two days a week.
0:45:03 > 0:45:10- I'm a cleaner so I'm self-employed. I pay the tax and everything.- Yeah.
0:45:10 > 0:45:14No, that's bang on the money, I really think that's a good...
0:45:14 > 0:45:18- good thing. So, obviously, this is your living room?- Yes.
0:45:18 > 0:45:21And you say it's a one-bedroom flat. Is this where you sleep as well?
0:45:21 > 0:45:24Yeah, we sleeping on the sofa. It's very easy.
0:45:24 > 0:45:27Make the bed very quick, like that.
0:45:29 > 0:45:33And that's it, that is the house bed.
0:45:33 > 0:45:36So, how much a month do you pay here, then?
0:45:36 > 0:45:41- It's around £900.- £900. It is expensive then, yeah.
0:45:42 > 0:45:45So, regarding the way Mariusz lives... He's 40
0:45:45 > 0:45:49or 40-plus. He lives in a one-bedroom flat,
0:45:49 > 0:45:52he sleeps in the front room with his wife,
0:45:52 > 0:45:54while, Jan, obviously, has the bedroom
0:45:54 > 0:46:00and they pay...to me, what I think is quite extortionate, £900.
0:46:00 > 0:46:04I wouldn't do it. But, obviously where he's...from another
0:46:04 > 0:46:06country he has to deal with it.
0:46:07 > 0:46:11So, is the readiness of immigrants to pay for whatever accommodation
0:46:11 > 0:46:15they can get to blame for rising rents and housing shortages?
0:46:15 > 0:46:19You've been doing some research into the impact of immigration
0:46:19 > 0:46:22- on housing in the UK, is that right? - Yeah, no, that's right.
0:46:22 > 0:46:24Immigrants come in from Eastern Europe...
0:46:24 > 0:46:26they, obviously, need somewhere to live,
0:46:26 > 0:46:29that demands housing... and you know,
0:46:29 > 0:46:32if you don't increase the supply there's going to be
0:46:32 > 0:46:33pressure from that.
0:46:33 > 0:46:38I mean, the housing situation problem is more acute in London.
0:46:38 > 0:46:42But I think that's being caused primarily not by immigration here,
0:46:42 > 0:46:47it's just been a failure to build enough houses.
0:46:47 > 0:46:54The population of London the last 20 years has increased by 15%.
0:46:54 > 0:46:57But, you know, we've been struggling to build enough housing to
0:46:57 > 0:47:01really keep pace with that so prices keep on spiralling up and,
0:47:01 > 0:47:04you know, everyone finds it a terrible struggle.
0:47:09 > 0:47:13It's Michael's last day of the experiment with Marilyn.
0:47:13 > 0:47:17He wants to experience the work she does before deciding
0:47:17 > 0:47:20if she's a gain or a drain on Britain.
0:47:20 > 0:47:22I will introduce you to my boss.
0:47:22 > 0:47:25First, he's going to meet Marilyn's boss.
0:47:25 > 0:47:29- Mr Boss, this is Michael. - Hello, Michael.- How are you?
0:47:29 > 0:47:33I'm nervous but I'm also really excited about it. Don't want to mess it up.
0:47:33 > 0:47:37Michael, have you ever tried to get a job in McDonald's or
0:47:37 > 0:47:41- Kentucky Fried Chicken?- I've got it into my head if I'm going to
0:47:41 > 0:47:43- McDonald's now...- Yeah...
0:47:43 > 0:47:47I'm so over qualified... I'm worth more than that.
0:47:47 > 0:47:48Don't worry about that.
0:47:48 > 0:47:51I don't think you're over qualified. Because you think you're
0:47:51 > 0:47:54over qualified you'll never get a job cos you'll think you're too
0:47:54 > 0:47:55good to work there
0:47:55 > 0:47:57and I think, some of these girls here,
0:47:57 > 0:48:01they've been here for six months or a year or longer - they've got
0:48:01 > 0:48:04degrees, I've had others here that are trainee doctors so don't...
0:48:04 > 0:48:07I wouldn't say you were over qualified.
0:48:07 > 0:48:12- OK, we've got the machine here... we need to wash by hand first.- Yeah.
0:48:12 > 0:48:15So, you know how to wash, I guess?
0:48:17 > 0:48:22Michael hasn't worked for over two years. He feels he lacks confidence
0:48:22 > 0:48:24and gets nervous when dealing with customers
0:48:24 > 0:48:27so he starts with the basics.
0:48:27 > 0:48:29Don't break anything, please.
0:48:29 > 0:48:32But soon gets promoted to front of house.
0:48:33 > 0:48:36OK, do you want to come with me at the front?
0:48:38 > 0:48:42So, I know you could be nervous to go with customers
0:48:42 > 0:48:44so you can see how I do.
0:48:46 > 0:48:49Hello! You OK?
0:48:49 > 0:48:50Are you ready to order?
0:48:50 > 0:48:54A large coke, sure. A large Fanta.
0:48:55 > 0:48:58- Oh, Coke, right here, thank you very much.- Cheers, mate.
0:48:58 > 0:49:00Would you like...? Yeah, sure.
0:49:04 > 0:49:08We just come here to find a job. We work hard
0:49:08 > 0:49:13and he can work hard like us. He can... Only the confidence problem
0:49:13 > 0:49:18and now he saw himself he can do it.
0:49:18 > 0:49:21Yeah.
0:49:21 > 0:49:25- Sausage and mash?- Yeah.- Is that yours? Sorry about the wait, sir.
0:49:25 > 0:49:28Great.
0:49:28 > 0:49:32In two minutes you get more comfortable with the people
0:49:32 > 0:49:33so that's really nice.
0:49:33 > 0:49:36So, are you proud of yourself? Are you happy or...?
0:49:36 > 0:49:39I'm very proud of myself, yeah.
0:49:39 > 0:49:42I didn't think I was going to be as interactive as I was.
0:49:42 > 0:49:46Definitely going to try and go for it with this sort of work now.
0:49:46 > 0:49:50Go and get changed, Michael, go on, you've done all right.
0:49:50 > 0:49:54I think before, I thought that immigrants were a drain on...
0:49:54 > 0:49:58society, if you like but now I've met Marilyn and I'm
0:49:58 > 0:50:00seeing how she has to live her life
0:50:00 > 0:50:03and the fact that I've learnt more about it...
0:50:03 > 0:50:05I definitely think that it's a gain.
0:50:07 > 0:50:11In all honesty, I don't see any problems with it any more.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13- See you later.- See you later.
0:50:14 > 0:50:17Michael may have changed his views but John continues to think
0:50:17 > 0:50:20immigration is a drain.
0:50:20 > 0:50:22And it's not just the influx if migrants taking jobs
0:50:22 > 0:50:27that concerns him. He thinks it's threatening the British way of life.
0:50:27 > 0:50:30Does it always tastes better when you're having fish and chips
0:50:30 > 0:50:33- on the seaside?- Yeah.- Why is that?
0:50:35 > 0:50:39It's all in the mind. It's all in the mind! It just does!
0:50:39 > 0:50:42John wants to show Rommel what he thinks it means to be British
0:50:42 > 0:50:45so he's invited him to his hometown of Southend.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50With fish and chips it's traditionally...
0:50:50 > 0:50:51English by the seaside.
0:50:51 > 0:50:55The other things you have, you know, a pint of beer.
0:50:55 > 0:50:59Also, funfairs, for us it would be typically English.
0:50:59 > 0:51:00And walking along the front.
0:51:00 > 0:51:03What we say "the promenade".
0:51:03 > 0:51:04I mean, all of this...
0:51:05 > 0:51:10..the pier, the way coming out here. Seeing what we're seeing,
0:51:10 > 0:51:15looking at the old buildings, is a typical English, sort of, scene.
0:51:15 > 0:51:17And it's that sort of thing that I want to preserve
0:51:17 > 0:51:21and you feel that with all the things we've been talking about
0:51:21 > 0:51:24that is under threat, it's going to change
0:51:24 > 0:51:27and I don't, necessarily, feel that that's a good thing.
0:51:27 > 0:51:29You know, we talk about being British...
0:51:29 > 0:51:33I'm just thinking... You know, let's say football.
0:51:33 > 0:51:37We think football is like an English, you know, game
0:51:37 > 0:51:40but it's not. It is a Chinese game that was, you know,
0:51:40 > 0:51:43brought to us in the UK.
0:51:43 > 0:51:46Prince Philip, husband of the Queen of England...
0:51:46 > 0:51:47- Greek.- Greek.
0:51:47 > 0:51:52Well, he wasn't the same as every average citizen coming in.
0:51:52 > 0:51:56- I'm thinking of the tea.- Tea? Yeah, absolutely.- China.
0:51:56 > 0:51:59And all things from all the areas that we were involved with
0:51:59 > 0:52:01all round the world...
0:52:01 > 0:52:04form the society we've got today. That doesn't mean
0:52:04 > 0:52:07- that I think that change is good for change's sake.- Yeah.
0:52:07 > 0:52:09Tea...by itself...
0:52:11 > 0:52:13..coming to Britain, you have no problem with that?
0:52:13 > 0:52:15No, not at all, no, of course not.
0:52:15 > 0:52:19But when we equate tea as Chinese people coming to the UK...
0:52:20 > 0:52:24- ..you won't like it? - Well, I don't mind a few.- Yes, yeah.
0:52:24 > 0:52:27- I don't mind a reasonable number. - Yeah.
0:52:27 > 0:52:32But my objection to it is the scale and the effect it's having.
0:52:32 > 0:52:35When I was still in the Philippines I have friends who have come
0:52:35 > 0:52:37to London.
0:52:37 > 0:52:41When they learned I would be coming to the UK, instantly, you know
0:52:41 > 0:52:42what they said?
0:52:42 > 0:52:46"Don't go there. Why, why go to London, why go to England?
0:52:46 > 0:52:48"It's such a racist country."
0:52:48 > 0:52:51When I came over here that completely changed.
0:52:51 > 0:52:55What I see in Britain is completely embracing, you know,
0:52:55 > 0:52:56multiculturalism.
0:52:56 > 0:52:58Yeah.
0:52:58 > 0:52:59See, this is where...
0:53:00 > 0:53:03..people like myself feel...
0:53:03 > 0:53:06we're not really understood...
0:53:06 > 0:53:09because I don't disagree with...
0:53:10 > 0:53:12..the multicultural influence.
0:53:13 > 0:53:16In fact, you could argue, if you didn't have it,
0:53:16 > 0:53:19what a boring place we would live in.
0:53:19 > 0:53:23Erm, I'm not suggesting we live like we lived in the 1920s, 1930s...
0:53:23 > 0:53:25I'm not saying that.
0:53:25 > 0:53:28What I believe is that we have to...
0:53:28 > 0:53:31make sure things aren't under threat.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34I think it's interesting, Rommel's view...
0:53:34 > 0:53:36about diversity affecting Britain
0:53:36 > 0:53:38and erm...
0:53:38 > 0:53:43He seems to be very keen on change, thinking it's all a good thing
0:53:43 > 0:53:46Well, maybe it's my background and my experience
0:53:46 > 0:53:49but I don't think it is all a good thing and I've said that all along.
0:53:49 > 0:53:52Er, I think that's our main difference, really.
0:53:52 > 0:53:54John is one of...
0:53:55 > 0:53:57..the minority of
0:53:57 > 0:54:02the British-born people who are having these views but
0:54:02 > 0:54:05I am really hopeful that, you know...
0:54:07 > 0:54:11..before we end this, you know, this experiment,
0:54:11 > 0:54:14that John would have changed his views on migrants.
0:54:19 > 0:54:23In Ilford, north-east London, retired couple Ted
0:54:23 > 0:54:25and Margaret are showing Naseem and Rahat
0:54:25 > 0:54:27the changes to their high street.
0:54:29 > 0:54:32This is the last of our English shops.
0:54:32 > 0:54:37- It's been here since we come... about 40 years.- 40 years?
0:54:37 > 0:54:38..they've been here.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41There was bakers, there was
0:54:41 > 0:54:44a couple of baker shops down here, greengrocers.
0:54:44 > 0:54:47Now, this, this selection of vegetables we'd find it
0:54:47 > 0:54:50- very difficult to know what to do with them.- Yeah.
0:54:50 > 0:54:55We don't recognise your vegetables. Most of the vegetables that are
0:54:55 > 0:54:58- sold in the stores... - You don't recognise.
0:54:58 > 0:54:59We wouldn't know how to cook them.
0:54:59 > 0:55:01Yes, some of them I don't even recognise!
0:55:01 > 0:55:03LAUGHTER
0:55:03 > 0:55:05- Have you ever been inside the shop? - No, never.- No.
0:55:05 > 0:55:07No, we wouldn't venture...
0:55:07 > 0:55:10Well, this is the first time I've ever been in a store
0:55:10 > 0:55:11quite like this.
0:55:11 > 0:55:14Really? Did you know all these things? What are they?
0:55:14 > 0:55:16No, we wouldn't recognise any of those and this
0:55:16 > 0:55:17is the problem that we've got
0:55:17 > 0:55:21that we don't feel that there's anything here
0:55:21 > 0:55:24that we recognise.
0:55:24 > 0:55:27Yeah, look, halal meat and fish and poultry.
0:55:27 > 0:55:31Well, we wouldn't choose to buy halal, truly,
0:55:31 > 0:55:34it would be against our principles. That's the only meat
0:55:34 > 0:55:38sold round here so we, we just wouldn't be meat eaters
0:55:38 > 0:55:39so, we just feel...
0:55:41 > 0:55:45..that we've outgrown, this area, we don't belong here any more.
0:55:48 > 0:55:51We would like to integrate and especially
0:55:51 > 0:55:55we would say, that how the Asian shops are here...
0:55:56 > 0:55:59..equally, there should be a few of the shops for...
0:55:59 > 0:56:02the local, native Britons as well.
0:56:02 > 0:56:06But we really understand their concern and we really understand
0:56:06 > 0:56:11their feelings. I think it's really hard for us to listen to this
0:56:11 > 0:56:14type of conversation from the natives.
0:56:17 > 0:56:20We're halfway through this experiment now - we've looked at
0:56:20 > 0:56:24jobs and housing and we've started to explore what it means to be British.
0:56:24 > 0:56:28Yes, and we've seen Michael already change his mind
0:56:28 > 0:56:30on the question of immigrants taking jobs.
0:56:30 > 0:56:33But do you think the others are going to change their minds?
0:56:33 > 0:56:35Jamie and John still seem pretty convinced
0:56:35 > 0:56:37that immigration is a drain on Britain.
0:56:37 > 0:56:40But they've still got to look at schools, NHS
0:56:40 > 0:56:43and the whole question of religion, so it's a long way to go
0:56:43 > 0:56:45before they can take a decision.
0:56:46 > 0:56:49Next time we meet Kiran and Mohammed.
0:56:49 > 0:56:53We won't accept the bad parts of the British culture, we won't take it.
0:56:54 > 0:56:58The Brits investigate the impact of immigration on the NHS.
0:56:59 > 0:57:04The system is all wrong. I can't see how we can keep doing this.
0:57:04 > 0:57:07- They look at schooling. - I wouldn't send my children
0:57:07 > 0:57:10to a school as diverse as this.
0:57:10 > 0:57:13And they delve deeper into what it means to be British.
0:57:13 > 0:57:18I have a big issue with people who teach their children
0:57:18 > 0:57:22- another language as a first language.- I disagree with that.
0:57:22 > 0:57:26In the end, will the Brits think immigration is a gain or a drain?
0:57:26 > 0:57:28It's judgment time.
0:57:28 > 0:57:30THE crunch question...