0:00:02 > 0:00:03# America... #
0:00:03 > 0:00:06- The United States of America... - # We love you... #
0:00:06 > 0:00:09..leaders of the free world and home to all sorts of products,
0:00:09 > 0:00:12brands and trends that we love.
0:00:13 > 0:00:17But there's one export from the USA that hasn't gone down so well.
0:00:18 > 0:00:20An advert suggesting gay people can be cured
0:00:20 > 0:00:23through therapy has been banned by Transport For London.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25TFL says the adverts
0:00:25 > 0:00:28"don't reflect a tolerant and inclusive London."
0:00:30 > 0:00:32'I'm heading to America to find out more'
0:00:32 > 0:00:36about the controversial world of gay conversion therapy.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38If a parent comes to me and says,
0:00:38 > 0:00:40"We would like to increase
0:00:40 > 0:00:42"the probability of his being heterosexual,"
0:00:42 > 0:00:44that's not homophobia.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46It's not just, "Oh, I don't want you to be gay."
0:00:46 > 0:00:50I mean, it would be like me trying to decide if I would be OK with him being a terrorist.
0:00:50 > 0:00:54I'll be getting to know the guys going through it...
0:00:54 > 0:00:57There's a big part of me that just wants to start liking boobies NOW!
0:00:57 > 0:00:59..and the women married into it.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03'Sure, it makes me sad that he struggles with this and that'
0:01:03 > 0:01:06he doesn't see other girls as attractive, but he can perform with me,
0:01:06 > 0:01:08so I must have what it takes!
0:01:08 > 0:01:11And so a healthy hug would just be full contact.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13And I'll be trying to find out
0:01:13 > 0:01:16if it really is possible to make yourself straight.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18This is non-sexual.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20Nobody's sexualising this with you.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23I'm a man and I have emotional needs.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25And I'm not gay.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34# I'm beautiful in my way Cos God makes no mistakes
0:01:34 > 0:01:38# I'm on the right track, baby I was born this way... #
0:01:38 > 0:01:41I've come to Los Angeles to spend the day
0:01:41 > 0:01:43at one of the world's biggest gay pride events.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48Over 400,000 people have come out to celebrate being gay
0:01:48 > 0:01:51and their right to be who they want to be.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53Thank you, Ma'am! Happy Pride.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55Happy Pride!
0:01:55 > 0:01:58- Have fun!- Have fun!
0:01:58 > 0:02:02But not all Americans are as proud of their sexuality.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04There's a subculture of homosexual men
0:02:04 > 0:02:06having a controversial type of therapy
0:02:06 > 0:02:08to turn themselves straight.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14A campaign group who oppose this gay conversion therapy
0:02:14 > 0:02:16are canvassing here.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21For me, coming from England, it certainly doesn't seem...
0:02:21 > 0:02:24I mean, we've heard of it and there's rumours that it's
0:02:24 > 0:02:26going to start, sort of, seeping through.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29But here, it seems like a well-known thing
0:02:29 > 0:02:30that lots of people talk about.
0:02:30 > 0:02:35In general, Californians have a hard time believing that there is
0:02:35 > 0:02:38such a strong homophobic opposition.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41It's something that, living in a place like Los Angeles,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44living in a place like San Francisco, San Diego, an urban centre,
0:02:44 > 0:02:48you sort of assume everybody's educated and accepting
0:02:48 > 0:02:50and essentially tolerant.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53But you go to places like the Inland Empire, where I grew up,
0:02:53 > 0:02:55the Riverside, the Fontana areas,
0:02:55 > 0:02:58you go to the Fresnos and the Bakersfields and, you know,
0:02:58 > 0:03:01you find church after church, community after community,
0:03:01 > 0:03:05that engages in really unfortunate gay bashing,
0:03:05 > 0:03:06if you want to look at it that way.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12'Despite opposition from major mental health organisations,'
0:03:12 > 0:03:15there are licensed therapists currently offering
0:03:15 > 0:03:17gay conversion therapy across America.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21'One of these therapists is Floyd Godfrey.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24'He runs a clinic in Gilbert, Arizona.'
0:03:26 > 0:03:27Hello, there.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30- Hello, how are you? - Good, Stacey. Nice to meet you.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33- Nice to meet you, Floyd. Thank you for having me.- Come on in. You bet.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36- Really appreciate it.- You're straight back here, number two.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Thank you.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41Floyd, you wouldn't describe the clients that come to see you
0:03:41 > 0:03:42as gay men, homosexual men?
0:03:42 > 0:03:46We would use a term called same-sex attraction,
0:03:46 > 0:03:48that they're attracted, that it's more of a condition,
0:03:48 > 0:03:51a variation, of orientation.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54So we're not working with gay men who identify themselves as
0:03:54 > 0:03:57they feel like they were born that way or that's who they are.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01We're working with people who don't feel like that's who they are
0:04:01 > 0:04:05and that those attractions have come from other issues in their life.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09'Floyd has agreed to introduce me to a 19-year-old client
0:04:09 > 0:04:12'who he has been helping to overcome his attraction to men.'
0:04:12 > 0:04:14Hi. How are you?
0:04:14 > 0:04:17- Hello, how are you?- Good.- I'm Stacey.- I'm TJ. Nice to meet you.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20Real pleasure to meet you and thanks ever so much for letting me sit in.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23- I'm very grateful. - Oh, no worries.- Thank you.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25- I'll be as quiet as a mouse... - Whatever! No worries.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27..when I'm here.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29So, I'm glad you came in, TJ.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32We haven't... It's been a little while since I've seen you.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36You've been doing good work and accomplishing a lot of your goals.
0:04:36 > 0:04:37Just give me a little check-in.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40Tell me where you're at and where things are at.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42Well, I've even noticed, I'll experience
0:04:42 > 0:04:46a severe diminishing of the SSA feelings,
0:04:46 > 0:04:49but that's not necessarily true of the addiction to pornography...
0:04:49 > 0:04:51- OK, good.- ..where I'll still be struggling with
0:04:51 > 0:04:55the pornography issue, but I'm not going through my day,
0:04:55 > 0:04:57I'm not been triggered by guys that I'm seeing,
0:04:57 > 0:04:59I'm not feeling the needs.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02But I'm still struggling with the pornography.
0:05:02 > 0:05:07So I've really seen that distinction grow over the last couple of months.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10Do you feel like that's been one of the harder parts of all the therapy?
0:05:10 > 0:05:11Yeah.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13Getting those behaviours under control?
0:05:13 > 0:05:15- Absolutely.- Yeah.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18'According to Floyd, if TJ's to make
0:05:18 > 0:05:22'himself straight, it's important he stops using gay porn.'
0:05:22 > 0:05:26The frequency of my acting out with gay pornography did diminish,
0:05:26 > 0:05:28but it was still going on, you know,
0:05:28 > 0:05:30maybe once a week, once or twice a week.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32Greatly diminished from where it had been, you know,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35- two, three times a day to... - Really?!
0:05:35 > 0:05:37Yeah. It was bad.
0:05:37 > 0:05:38Lots of tissues?
0:05:38 > 0:05:39HE LAUGHS
0:05:39 > 0:05:42- Yes.- That's a lot, isn't it? Two or three times a DAY?- Yeah.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45- And it was always gay, it was never straight porn?- Always, always.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47I tried straight porn and it just didn't...
0:05:47 > 0:05:49Thought it was kind of gross.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52TJ, what are you hoping for? Ideal scenario.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55Find a girl who's opposite,
0:05:55 > 0:05:58she just completes me, I guess.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01She's pretty, she's not much taller than me.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04I really want her to be my best friend. I'd love to marry my best friend.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07And then to see that develop into...
0:06:07 > 0:06:11You know, obviously, there's a sexual aspect to a marriage,
0:06:11 > 0:06:14and then I'd love to have kids and grow old with her.
0:06:16 > 0:06:20It's a really odd one, because TJ will stand and tell me that
0:06:20 > 0:06:25he absolutely doesn't feel sexually attracted to men anymore.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28When he sees a lad crossing the street that's quite handsome,
0:06:28 > 0:06:30doesn't do anything for him. The feelings have gone.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33They've diminished because of Floyd.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36Then, in the same breath, he'll say,
0:06:36 > 0:06:38'"I am still watching gay porn
0:06:38 > 0:06:41'"and I'm masturbating to gay porn."'
0:06:41 > 0:06:46I know I'm not a genius, by any stretch of anyone's imagination,
0:06:46 > 0:06:48but if you're mad keen on gay porn
0:06:48 > 0:06:51and straight porn isn't doing it for you,
0:06:51 > 0:06:54maybe there are still gay elements of you.
0:06:57 > 0:07:01'TJ's decision to fight against what comes naturally to him
0:07:01 > 0:07:04'is baffling, and I'd like to know more about
0:07:04 > 0:07:06'why he's chosen to do this.
0:07:08 > 0:07:12'He's invited me to spend the day with him at his family home.'
0:07:12 > 0:07:13Hello, TJ. How are you?
0:07:13 > 0:07:16- Good. How are you, Stacey? - Nice to see you.- Nice to see you.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19- What a nice house! - Come on in. Thank you.
0:07:19 > 0:07:20So, your mum's in?
0:07:20 > 0:07:23- Yeah, my mum and my brother are both in.- Oh, brilliant.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25- Your younger brother? - My younger brother, Curtis.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28He's just two-and-a-half years younger than me.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32- Hello, Mum! Hello! How's things? - Hi!- Lovely to meet you.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35- Thank you for having me.- It's nice to meet you...- Stacey.- Stacey. Yes.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39- And this is Curtis. - Hello, Curtis.- Hi, how you? - God, you're alike, aren't you?
0:07:39 > 0:07:41- Oh, my God! You look so alike!- Yeah.
0:07:41 > 0:07:43- People used to think we were twins. - I can see that!
0:07:43 > 0:07:45'I want to know if TJ's little brother, Curtis,
0:07:45 > 0:07:48'supports his therapy.'
0:07:48 > 0:07:52So, at 12, you find out that your brother likes guys?
0:07:52 > 0:07:53Yeah.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56Cos there was always... I mean, the way acted before,
0:07:56 > 0:07:58it just, kind of, made sense.
0:07:58 > 0:08:03But to actually know, like, for a fact that, like, he's,
0:08:03 > 0:08:07you know, he has that problem, you know, that's just kind of...
0:08:07 > 0:08:12It made me look at him like he was, you know, way different than me.
0:08:12 > 0:08:14It almost made things awkward for a little while.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18Just like being around Curtis was just a little...
0:08:18 > 0:08:22Just awkward. That's a good word. It was just weird for a while.
0:08:22 > 0:08:28You know, he's my brother and, you know, I love him and everything,
0:08:28 > 0:08:31but, like, I don't know if I would be, you know,
0:08:31 > 0:08:34supportive of him choosing to be gay.
0:08:34 > 0:08:39And Mum, when you and your husband thought, you know, this...
0:08:39 > 0:08:44"We may well have to accept the fact that TJ is going to live a gay lifestyle",
0:08:44 > 0:08:45what did that mean to you?
0:08:45 > 0:08:48- How did that make you feel? - I love TJ. He's my son.
0:08:48 > 0:08:49He will always be my son.
0:08:50 > 0:08:54But I was well aware that, if he chose that,
0:08:54 > 0:08:57there would be a barrier between us.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59Not that I would purposefully do that,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02but I think just any kid that is doing something that they know
0:09:02 > 0:09:07their parents don't agree with or don't want for them,
0:09:07 > 0:09:10I think that puts a barrier there, no matter how loving the relationship is.
0:09:10 > 0:09:15I really thought TJ was going to be a great husband and daddy.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19This isn't what I pictured for our family.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21This isn't the brotherly relationship...
0:09:21 > 0:09:24I mean, you start grieving all those things that you don't even realise
0:09:24 > 0:09:26were expectations that you had, until you
0:09:26 > 0:09:29are at a point where you're risking not having that.
0:09:29 > 0:09:33So it's not just, "Oh, I don't want you to be gay."
0:09:33 > 0:09:37I mean, it's just so much bigger than that, you know?
0:09:37 > 0:09:39I mean, it would be like me trying to decide
0:09:39 > 0:09:41if I would be OK with him being a terrorist.
0:09:41 > 0:09:45You know, I mean, it's just anything that would be like, "What?!"
0:09:46 > 0:09:49It's just bigger than just that.
0:09:49 > 0:09:51'I'm starting to understand why TJ might feel
0:09:51 > 0:09:53'that he HAS to change himself.'
0:09:53 > 0:09:57Well, I told my parents my 8th grade year.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00I got the first D that I'd ever had in a class,
0:10:00 > 0:10:04and my mum pulled me aside and said, "What on Earth are you doing?
0:10:04 > 0:10:06"What's going on?"
0:10:06 > 0:10:08And it just came all gushing out. My poor mother!
0:10:08 > 0:10:10I just like vomited all of this at her, you know.
0:10:10 > 0:10:12"I'm watching gay porn and I think I'm gay!"
0:10:12 > 0:10:15And just all of this just came pouring out at her.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18I was crying, cos I have finally gotten all this stuff out
0:10:18 > 0:10:20and my mum was just bawling.
0:10:21 > 0:10:25And then Dad came home and he was furious.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28'Although they reacted badly at first,
0:10:28 > 0:10:32'TJ still appears to have a good relationship with his parents.'
0:10:32 > 0:10:33This is Dad.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36This is Curtis, and then that's me and Dad.
0:10:37 > 0:10:40- You know, he's still there...- Yeah.
0:10:40 > 0:10:44- ..despite going completely crazy when he found out.- Yeah.
0:10:44 > 0:10:48I think what I would have done in that situation. I don't know that I would've done it any differently.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51- Really?- I just... I mean, it was just so out of the blue.
0:10:51 > 0:10:55I just, literally, dropped an atom bomb on their life.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59I mean, he loved me. He just wanted to give me the help that I needed.
0:10:59 > 0:11:03Do you feel the pressure of having to keep up with your therapy
0:11:03 > 0:11:07and make sure that the same-sex attraction feelings never
0:11:07 > 0:11:11creep back in, for your folks, for your parents and your family?
0:11:11 > 0:11:14It's... I guess it's just kind of like anything else, like weight loss.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18Floyd uses that analogy a lot. Somebody who weighs a lot.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22And, at first, it's an effort to control what they eat
0:11:22 > 0:11:25and to count calories and do all that kind of stuff.
0:11:25 > 0:11:26But as time goes on, it becomes routine.
0:11:26 > 0:11:32It's the same way with the lifestyle of recovery that I'm living.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35At first, it was very... I had to make time with friends.
0:11:35 > 0:11:39Yeah, it took a lot of effort to try and make all this work.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44But now, it's just kind... It's how I live, you know.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47This is just who I am now.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50You know, I want, my heart desires, to have a wife and kids,
0:11:50 > 0:11:55and for that, you know, I feel the pressure of...
0:11:55 > 0:11:59I'm devoting myself to this lifestyle of recovery for her, whoever she is,
0:11:59 > 0:12:05out there, because I care, because I want that badly enough
0:12:05 > 0:12:09that I'm going to sacrifice now for the gains later.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15'I've come to a small town in Utah to meet another man
0:12:15 > 0:12:18'who has gone through conversion therapy
0:12:18 > 0:12:20'and is willing to talk to me.'
0:12:20 > 0:12:22Hello!
0:12:22 > 0:12:24- Who is that?- Hello. How are you?
0:12:24 > 0:12:26- Good.- I'm Stacey. - Hi, nice to meet you.
0:12:26 > 0:12:30'Danny lives with his wife Erin and their two small children.'
0:12:30 > 0:12:31- This is Jude.- Hello, little 'un!
0:12:31 > 0:12:34Oh my God, you're lovely!
0:12:34 > 0:12:37- And Jude is named after the Beatles' song, isn't he?- Yeah.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39- So brilliant!- And so is Desmond.
0:12:39 > 0:12:43- From Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da. - That's fantastic!
0:12:43 > 0:12:45So, here's our retro kitchen.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47Who does the house? It's lovely.
0:12:47 > 0:12:51- Danny totally does. - Do you, Danny?- I do.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54He picks the colours on the walls and he organises.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57I'll say, "Danny, I want a side table."
0:12:57 > 0:13:00And he'll just... Takes some time, trying to find exactly what kind,
0:13:00 > 0:13:02- and then he'll...- Make it happen.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05- Look at you go!- He's sensitive!
0:13:05 > 0:13:06THEY LAUGH
0:13:06 > 0:13:07Is that one of the positives,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10- being married to a guy with same-sex attraction?- Yeah!
0:13:10 > 0:13:11Look how nice my house is!
0:13:11 > 0:13:12SHE LAUGHS
0:13:12 > 0:13:17'Danny and Erin got engaged after a two-month whirlwind romance,
0:13:17 > 0:13:20'and have been married for five years.'
0:13:20 > 0:13:23Well, Danny had dated a couple of girls prior, and they dated for years.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26So I feel like it's a compliment that, like,
0:13:26 > 0:13:29six weeks in and he was like, "She's the one!" You know?
0:13:29 > 0:13:31- What is it about Erin? - I don't know. It's just her...
0:13:31 > 0:13:34personality and how fun she is,
0:13:34 > 0:13:39but also just how I can really talk with her about anything.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43- We're best friends.- I had never... All those girls who I dated forever,
0:13:43 > 0:13:46I had never told them about my same-sex attraction.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48Erin, I told her, how long after?
0:13:48 > 0:13:49It was before we were engaged,
0:13:49 > 0:13:53so within that first two months sometime I told her!
0:13:53 > 0:13:57So Erin, were you in love with Danny when Danny told you,
0:13:57 > 0:13:59"I've got these feelings, I've got gay feelings"?
0:13:59 > 0:14:02I think so and I remember...
0:14:02 > 0:14:05You know, at first, kind of being like, "Oh, crap!"
0:14:05 > 0:14:08"I'm going to have to maybe end this," or, "What does this mean?"
0:14:08 > 0:14:10And I prayed about it and I did some deep meditation
0:14:10 > 0:14:14and soul-searching, and it just wasn't an issue.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16You know, we're all imperfect. My dad has a phrase.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19He says, "We're all dealt cards.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21"It's just a matter of how you play it," you know?
0:14:21 > 0:14:24And so he was dealt with this card and how's he going to play it?
0:14:24 > 0:14:27He wants to play it this way. So I'm on board.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31We got married cos I love Erin, but there was a part of me
0:14:31 > 0:14:34that wondered, is this going to go away once I'm married?
0:14:34 > 0:14:37And hoped that it would. And it didn't.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40And that's when I started researching and trying to find help.
0:14:40 > 0:14:43Have you ever been...
0:14:43 > 0:14:47When Danny says that to you, do you get nervous and start thinking
0:14:47 > 0:14:52is he going to start fancying guys, am I going to have to watch him around other men?
0:14:52 > 0:14:55I really feel like Danny could...
0:14:56 > 0:15:01He checks out guys, some guys check out girls. You know, I just...
0:15:01 > 0:15:05I know that he checks out me, so...you know!
0:15:05 > 0:15:10Since I've been married, I don't think there's been a huge question, is this what I really want?
0:15:10 > 0:15:13We all have trials that we face in this life and there was a time
0:15:13 > 0:15:16when I was being told
0:15:16 > 0:15:18if you're gay, you're gay, that's just who you are.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21That was devastating for me, because I had these goals to have
0:15:21 > 0:15:25a family, I had these religious beliefs and it didn't fit together.
0:15:25 > 0:15:28But when I started realising that change was possible,
0:15:28 > 0:15:34and I started finding those resources, it was a relief for me.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37This is my trial. I'm not exempt from them
0:15:37 > 0:15:40and I need to learn to work through it the best I can.
0:15:41 > 0:15:45You can't play the "what if" game, all you can do is just...
0:15:45 > 0:15:47go from now.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51'The men who go through conversion therapy
0:15:51 > 0:15:54'are told that emotional wounds in childhood
0:15:54 > 0:15:56'have led to their homosexuality,
0:15:56 > 0:15:59'so they think for a boy to grow up straight,
0:15:59 > 0:16:01'it's important that he feels close to his father.'
0:16:01 > 0:16:03So Danny, I know you believe that
0:16:03 > 0:16:07the reason you felt homosexual feelings
0:16:07 > 0:16:11was because of the way you were raised, your environment,
0:16:11 > 0:16:13that kind of thing.
0:16:13 > 0:16:15Does that mean you make a real effort to...
0:16:16 > 0:16:21..raise your boys in a way that they don't have the same feelings?
0:16:21 > 0:16:27I try to make sure that I'm conscious of them, their feelings.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29Jude was always more independent.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Desmond wants to be helped by Mom all the time.
0:16:31 > 0:16:35Desmond's a little bit quieter and kinda reminds me
0:16:35 > 0:16:37of me a little bit.
0:16:37 > 0:16:41So, with him, I may have to make more of a conscious effort.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43It's all about our perception,
0:16:43 > 0:16:46and Desmond might perceive that Danny doesn't like...
0:16:46 > 0:16:48That a connection never forms.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51So, if that happens, that's fine.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54But we're going to do everything we can to try to prevent it.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56If Desmond was gay...
0:16:56 > 0:16:59or you're going to have more kids, if any of them turns out
0:16:59 > 0:17:03to want to be a gay man, that wouldn't be an issue?
0:17:03 > 0:17:06I would have to take a good look at myself and see,
0:17:06 > 0:17:08what did I do, where did I mess up?
0:17:08 > 0:17:11I just... I understand,
0:17:11 > 0:17:14and I've experienced some of the hardships
0:17:14 > 0:17:18that can come from that life,
0:17:18 > 0:17:21and so I wouldn't want that path for them.
0:17:24 > 0:17:28'Danny thinks his attraction to men is due to a bad relationship with his own father'
0:17:28 > 0:17:31and over the years, he has struggled to tell him what he was going through.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34Mom has known... probably five years ago.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37But my dad, I just told him about maybe a year and a half ago.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40I wanted the support of somebody,
0:17:40 > 0:17:42- but I wasn't sure how he would respond, so...- Right.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48'Raised in a strict religious household,
0:17:48 > 0:17:51'Danny was brought up as a Mormon, a conservative branch
0:17:51 > 0:17:54'of Christianity that won't accept openly gay men.'
0:17:56 > 0:17:58Stacey, do you want to use Jude's glove?
0:17:58 > 0:17:59SHE LAUGHS
0:17:59 > 0:18:03Yes! I think that's probably the level I'm at, to be honest.
0:18:03 > 0:18:08'He's brought me over to his parents' house for some softball practice with his dad.'
0:18:08 > 0:18:09Good!
0:18:09 > 0:18:13So Bruce, you only found out fairly recently?
0:18:13 > 0:18:16- Yeah.- Talk me through that, Bruce. What happened?
0:18:16 > 0:18:18Erm...
0:18:18 > 0:18:21It was...
0:18:21 > 0:18:23kind of a shock -
0:18:23 > 0:18:26not that
0:18:26 > 0:18:29he has this attraction...
0:18:29 > 0:18:32but when he explained to me
0:18:32 > 0:18:35the whole philosophy of the role
0:18:35 > 0:18:39that I may have played, unknowingly, that was hard.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42I raised my kids the way my dad raised me.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44So, I was a travelling salesman,
0:18:44 > 0:18:47I was gone one week out of every three weeks.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51And part of the rejected feelings that he felt
0:18:51 > 0:18:53came in part from my being gone so much.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56And so I was doing what I thought was right,
0:18:56 > 0:19:00making it possible for his mother to stay home from work,
0:19:00 > 0:19:03and spend time with the kids and raise them...
0:19:03 > 0:19:07and it turns out that was part of the problem.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10But initially, it was devastating.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13Maybe more so than the fact that he told me
0:19:13 > 0:19:18he was having these same-sex attraction kinds of feelings.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20You know, we could deal with that, but all of a sudden
0:19:20 > 0:19:24it was something I had done that I had to deal with, and that was difficult.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26Isn't that the arguments to be had, Danny,
0:19:26 > 0:19:30that every single kid on planet Earth
0:19:30 > 0:19:33feels distant and angry
0:19:33 > 0:19:36and frustrated with their parents at one time or another?
0:19:36 > 0:19:39But I think there's a difference between being upset with the parents
0:19:39 > 0:19:43and feeling a disconnect from the parents.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45And like I said, I think a lot of problems kind of stem
0:19:45 > 0:19:48from some of the same things, that disconnect from the parents.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52Some kids turn to drugs, some kids turn to criminal behaviours.
0:19:52 > 0:19:54And it's something that starts very young.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56Usually, this disconnect happens
0:19:56 > 0:20:00sometime between the ages of one and a half and three to four years old.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04So it's more than just, "I'm upset with my parents",
0:20:04 > 0:20:07it's the disconnect.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11The thing about tackling this kind of topic,
0:20:11 > 0:20:15you know, trying to learn about gay conversion therapy
0:20:15 > 0:20:19and trying to understand lots of different people's perspective,
0:20:19 > 0:20:23it's really hard, because I have had a look online and I have researched,
0:20:23 > 0:20:28and there's no hard actual statistic
0:20:28 > 0:20:32scientific evidence on whether it works or whether it doesn't
0:20:32 > 0:20:35or how many have "been cured" and how many haven't.
0:20:35 > 0:20:40So it's almost difficult to have a tangible conversation, because
0:20:40 > 0:20:43sometimes you think one thing, they think another.
0:20:45 > 0:20:47And you're often going round and round in circles.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56'According to the therapy, it's not just relationships with fathers
0:20:56 > 0:20:58'that need to be worked on.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01'It's important that guys who want to make themselves straight
0:21:01 > 0:21:04'build strong friendships with other men.'
0:21:04 > 0:21:06- This is us?- This is us!
0:21:06 > 0:21:07'I'm back in Arizona, with TJ,
0:21:07 > 0:21:11'who relies on one of these friends to help him fight the urge to use gay porn.'
0:21:14 > 0:21:18He calls me every night and just asks me what my plan is for the night.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22Because he knows that I've struggled with an addiction to pornography,
0:21:22 > 0:21:26and so every night he calls me about the time that he knows I go to bed,
0:21:26 > 0:21:30and just asks me how I'm doing.
0:21:30 > 0:21:35And it has been immensely helpful to have somebody to talk to in the moment.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38And I know that, if I'm ever really struggling, I can shoot him
0:21:38 > 0:21:42a text or call him and just say "Hey, I need to talk to you.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45"I'm lonely" or whatever, "I need somebody to talk to."
0:21:45 > 0:21:47And he's just always there for me.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50Does he have homosexual feelings?
0:21:50 > 0:21:54- Yes.- Really?- He struggles also.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57- That's really interesting. - It really is,
0:21:57 > 0:22:00and it's kind of crazy, because we've worked a lot to make sure
0:22:00 > 0:22:04that the basis of our relationship is not that commonality.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07Because we both share the feeling that
0:22:07 > 0:22:11if the only reason we're friends is because we both struggle,
0:22:11 > 0:22:14then at some point, either we're going to have a massive falling-out
0:22:14 > 0:22:17or we're going to cause each other to stumble.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19And that's not what we're looking for.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22- And have you been able to manage that, so far?- We have.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25We've even got to the point where I spent the night
0:22:25 > 0:22:28over at his apartment the other night and we were just
0:22:28 > 0:22:30kind of wrestling around and just...
0:22:30 > 0:22:34being boys, and there was no attraction
0:22:34 > 0:22:35on either side.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39I mean, our friendship is just so based on camaraderie
0:22:39 > 0:22:41and just being men together,
0:22:41 > 0:22:45that there's just not even an issue with the fact that we both struggle.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51'TJ's supportive friend Casey lives in nearby Phoenix.'
0:22:53 > 0:22:55Hello.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58- How's life?- Good.- Good.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01'The boys first met at a group for men trying to change their sexuality.'
0:23:03 > 0:23:08So, Casey, tell me how you and TJ have become friends.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11We met in January, but didn't actually hang out until March.
0:23:11 > 0:23:15And then... So we just grabbed lunch
0:23:15 > 0:23:17and I asked him his story,
0:23:17 > 0:23:19I told him mine.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22I had never actually been friends with someone else that struggled.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25So it was new and interesting for me
0:23:25 > 0:23:28because I had never actually talked to someone.
0:23:28 > 0:23:30- That's really cool. - It is, it's really nice.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34And TJ has told me that you will text him, literally, every night,
0:23:34 > 0:23:37like, you're the most loyal friend, saying, "Hey, how are you doing?"
0:23:37 > 0:23:40Obviously, pornography is an issue for both and so...
0:23:40 > 0:23:44"All right, let's... You're having a bad day, let me know." Vice versa.
0:23:44 > 0:23:48"How you doing? What's going on? How's today been? You doing good?"
0:23:48 > 0:23:50And just, you know...
0:23:50 > 0:23:54Isolation is where this is going to breed and so...
0:23:54 > 0:23:56Yeah, I'm going to do it as much as I...
0:23:56 > 0:24:00Every night when I think about it. "How are you? What's going on?"
0:24:00 > 0:24:02So, I know you and TJ are really good friends.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04Was that always the idea from the get-go?
0:24:04 > 0:24:08It never was, like, one of us trying to get a date or a friend.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10It was...
0:24:10 > 0:24:13We're both Christians, we both believe very strongly about that
0:24:13 > 0:24:16and this is a struggle in our lives, and so...
0:24:16 > 0:24:19You have a Christian brother that understands beyond just
0:24:19 > 0:24:22what he's been told, but through experience, understands.
0:24:22 > 0:24:26And so, no, it never has been anything more than...
0:24:26 > 0:24:28We're just good friends.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30Mm-hm.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38'TJ's therapist Floyd organises weekend camping trips
0:24:38 > 0:24:41'as part of the therapy.
0:24:41 > 0:24:44'And today, everyone's meeting up at his family home.'
0:24:46 > 0:24:50- Hello! How's things?- Good morning. - Nice to see you again, Floyd.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53Nice house! Look at this.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55- Are you excited for today? - I am, come on in.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58- We're ready to go, getting ready. - Hello.
0:24:58 > 0:25:02- This is my wife.- Lovely to meet you. - That's my son Austin...
0:25:02 > 0:25:04- What's your name?- Kayleen. - Nice to meet you.
0:25:04 > 0:25:09'Floyd has first-hand experience of what his clients are going through,
0:25:09 > 0:25:13'having fought against his own homosexuality.'
0:25:13 > 0:25:15So how long have you been married?
0:25:15 > 0:25:17We just celebrated 20 years.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20- Wow! Congratulations.- Yeah.
0:25:20 > 0:25:22It's been, um...
0:25:22 > 0:25:24an interesting 20 years!
0:25:24 > 0:25:27- Right.- Yeah. It's been great.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30Would you change any of it?
0:25:30 > 0:25:33I think that we've learned a lot.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35But I don't know that you'd change that,
0:25:35 > 0:25:41- because that's... You go through the bad to learn the good.- Yeah.
0:25:41 > 0:25:45'Those who have been on the weekends before are made staff members
0:25:45 > 0:25:48'and given special responsibilities.'
0:25:48 > 0:25:52- Danny! Look at you! Representing England.- Yup.- Kicking off.
0:25:52 > 0:25:55- So what's your role? - I'm the captain.- Oh.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58That means I'm basically in charge of making sure everything
0:25:58 > 0:26:00runs smoothly, that we're staying on time...
0:26:00 > 0:26:04Just kind of overseeing the organisation of everything.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06I'm on the booster crew,
0:26:06 > 0:26:10so it's my job to help maintain a real boyish attitude.
0:26:10 > 0:26:13Because if we're not careful, it can get kind of sombre
0:26:13 > 0:26:15and solemn with the therapy aspect,
0:26:15 > 0:26:18so if that starts to happen,
0:26:18 > 0:26:22we'll just, like, pick up a game of football or tag or something -
0:26:22 > 0:26:24just ridiculous little fun games
0:26:24 > 0:26:29just to kind of get the energy back up. So, that's my job.
0:26:29 > 0:26:31- My God, is that all your stuff?! - That's my stuff.
0:26:31 > 0:26:33- That's quite heavy, TJ. - I'm quite strong.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35Let me see that.
0:26:35 > 0:26:37Oh, my gosh!
0:26:37 > 0:26:40Jeez Louise.
0:26:40 > 0:26:43Floyd will be leading a 20-strong group of men into the northern
0:26:43 > 0:26:47Arizona wilderness, to set up camp for a weekend of male bonding.
0:26:50 > 0:26:54For the men and boys who are trying to work on their self-esteem
0:26:54 > 0:26:57and their sense of confidence, the men who have successfully
0:26:57 > 0:27:01changed their orientation are doing these kinds of things.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03Why is self-esteem so important?
0:27:03 > 0:27:07Well, for these guys particularly, they often grew up feeling like
0:27:07 > 0:27:10they couldn't measure up to the other guys, they didn't feel as good as the other guys.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13Comparing themselves to the other guys didn't feel...
0:27:13 > 0:27:17Like, their gender confidence - they weren't "guy" enough.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19So that's why we do it,
0:27:19 > 0:27:23to kind of fill the need they've had, that's been so empty for them.
0:27:25 > 0:27:26Bye!
0:27:26 > 0:27:29Bye! Love you.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32'This unusual technique for trying to change a man's sexuality
0:27:32 > 0:27:37'is something Floyd would like to bring to the UK.'
0:27:37 > 0:27:39Some of my associates have gone over
0:27:39 > 0:27:42and they've done some weekends similar to this.
0:27:42 > 0:27:44And they've been very well received.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47We've also had people from the United Kingdom fly to America
0:27:47 > 0:27:52to do some of the programmes, and I believe that their perception
0:27:52 > 0:27:54was that they couldn't get that kind of help over there.
0:27:54 > 0:27:57Even more so than in America, they feel very underground -
0:27:57 > 0:28:00don't feel like they can say they want to change,
0:28:00 > 0:28:04almost as though they feel like they're not allowed
0:28:04 > 0:28:06to have that desire to change.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08It's such a hot topic right now.
0:28:08 > 0:28:12A couple of weeks before I came out here to look at this exact thing,
0:28:12 > 0:28:16slogans were meant to go up on our London double-decker buses
0:28:16 > 0:28:18advertising this kind of work,
0:28:18 > 0:28:21and the Mayor pulled them, he was like, "No way.
0:28:21 > 0:28:25"I'm not promoting intolerance in a tolerant city."
0:28:25 > 0:28:26Interesting when you say tolerance.
0:28:26 > 0:28:29There seems to be tolerance for blind acceptance,
0:28:29 > 0:28:32but not tolerance for those who would like help.
0:28:32 > 0:28:36We would like the respect from the gay community,
0:28:36 > 0:28:38that if this is what we feel,
0:28:38 > 0:28:41that they would be willing to respect that.
0:28:41 > 0:28:45We want to put billboards on the buses as much as they want to.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48And I don't think that that's fair.
0:28:50 > 0:28:52Some of the guys coming on this retreat
0:28:52 > 0:28:54have travelled hundreds of miles to take part.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59- Where you guys coming in from? - San Diego.- San Diego, all right.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04Each one has to come with a heterosexual companion,
0:29:04 > 0:29:07who is usually a close friend or family member,
0:29:07 > 0:29:12and ages range from men in their 30s down to 17-year-olds.
0:29:12 > 0:29:13Hello.
0:29:13 > 0:29:15- How are you?- Good, how are you?
0:29:15 > 0:29:18- What's your name? - Skyler.- Skyler, I'm Stacey.
0:29:18 > 0:29:20Nice to meet you.
0:29:20 > 0:29:21- What's going on?- Nothing.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25- Just got here?- Yeah. - What are you expecting?
0:29:25 > 0:29:28- I don't know, I'm really nervous. - A bit nervous?- Little bit.
0:29:28 > 0:29:29How are you feeling?
0:29:29 > 0:29:32Good, ready to hike. Go down there and...
0:29:32 > 0:29:35I've never been here, so I'm excited to see the terrain.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38A good weekend to spend some time together, so we're looking forward to it.
0:29:38 > 0:29:40It will be wicked.
0:29:40 > 0:29:42And what are you hoping to get from the weekend, Dad?
0:29:42 > 0:29:44Uh...
0:29:44 > 0:29:47- Whatever they've got to teach. We're here to...- Learn.
0:29:47 > 0:29:51Yeah, learn and see where to improve.
0:29:51 > 0:29:53To ensure the men are able to bond,
0:29:53 > 0:29:58Floyd absolutely forbids any females from attending camp.
0:29:58 > 0:30:00But I'm allowed to come back on Sunday, right?
0:30:00 > 0:30:03- Yes, we'll have you back on Sunday. - What time?- Around noon.
0:30:03 > 0:30:05You guys are going to be absolutely shattered!
0:30:05 > 0:30:07I'll be fresh as you like.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10I'll be showered, my teeth will be done, yeah.
0:30:10 > 0:30:13- Wicked. I'll see you Sunday, then. - Very good. Very good.
0:30:13 > 0:30:15Ta, Floyd, thank you.
0:30:15 > 0:30:18I've got to go, I'm going to leave you guys to it.
0:30:18 > 0:30:20- See you!- Bye!- Bye!
0:30:20 > 0:30:26Floyd does allow the all-male camera crew to stay while I'm away.
0:30:26 > 0:30:28And, as the day draws to a close,
0:30:28 > 0:30:31the guys pair off with their straight buddies...
0:30:31 > 0:30:33It should push through this hole!
0:30:33 > 0:30:38..in the hope that this weekend might deliver the change they're looking for.
0:30:46 > 0:30:50Over the next couple of days, the guys take part in team-building
0:30:50 > 0:30:54tasks designed to strengthen male friendship.
0:30:54 > 0:30:56So, a healthy hug would just be full contact.
0:30:56 > 0:30:59That's OK, you can pat, but then just hold on.
0:30:59 > 0:31:02They're taught how to enjoy non-sexual male touch.
0:31:02 > 0:31:04- Do you feel safe?- Yes.
0:31:05 > 0:31:12And to come to terms with their body issues, the group strip off for sports.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18But it's not all fun and games.
0:31:18 > 0:31:22An important part of the camp is a group therapy session
0:31:22 > 0:31:25in which the men are encouraged to talk about their father issues.
0:31:25 > 0:31:28I still don't have a very good relationship with him.
0:31:28 > 0:31:33He connected a lot more with my brother than with me.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35He liked sports, he liked hunting,
0:31:35 > 0:31:39he liked all the masculine stuff and I hated that stuff.
0:31:39 > 0:31:41And so, he didn't know what to do with me,
0:31:41 > 0:31:44so I just really didn't attach with him.
0:31:44 > 0:31:46OK, thank you.
0:31:46 > 0:31:47Thanks for sharing.
0:31:48 > 0:31:53Skyler's dad has been told that his poor relationship with his son
0:31:53 > 0:31:55may have contributed to Skyler's attraction to men.
0:31:57 > 0:31:59Skyler, I love you more than...
0:31:59 > 0:32:01than life itself.
0:32:06 > 0:32:08All I ever wanted is to...
0:32:13 > 0:32:15..to protect...
0:32:22 > 0:32:23To be there for him.
0:32:23 > 0:32:25To be there for you.
0:32:27 > 0:32:29To not have you hurt.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33To have you know that you've got somebody
0:32:33 > 0:32:35that cares about you and loves you.
0:32:36 > 0:32:38It's OK if you cry.
0:32:38 > 0:32:39Just look at your dad.
0:32:41 > 0:32:42Tell him what that was like for you.
0:32:42 > 0:32:43I haven't...
0:32:45 > 0:32:46..had to deal with that, I guess.
0:32:46 > 0:32:48I don't know how it...
0:32:51 > 0:32:53I don't know what I'm trying to say.
0:32:56 > 0:33:00For me, it's always been, you were there to provide and everything,
0:33:00 > 0:33:02but I never got to see you.
0:33:03 > 0:33:07At least, I thought your work was more important.
0:33:07 > 0:33:08And that...
0:33:11 > 0:33:13I don't know, I just wasn't, you know,
0:33:13 > 0:33:15growing up to be what you wanted me to be.
0:33:17 > 0:33:21Watching fathers and their sons having the opportunity to bond
0:33:21 > 0:33:23hits some members of the group hard.
0:33:23 > 0:33:27Aaron is 35 and still hasn't come out to his parents.
0:33:28 > 0:33:30I've been on a lot of weekends in the last few months
0:33:30 > 0:33:33and I've done a lot of emotional work.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36This is the first one that's just focused on SSA.
0:33:36 > 0:33:42I come in, and like that reflex that wants to compare just goes wild
0:33:42 > 0:33:45and it's like, oh gosh, these guys are starting out at a really young age,
0:33:45 > 0:33:46that's awesome, I wish I had that.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49And, like, these guys are married and they're working on it,
0:33:49 > 0:33:52I wish I'd gotten married years ago, you know?
0:33:52 > 0:33:54And these guys are going through it and they've gotten help
0:33:54 > 0:33:58and they're staffing events and they're like ten years younger than me or whatever,
0:33:58 > 0:34:01and I'm thinking, like, for all those years, I was like,
0:34:01 > 0:34:03just show me the door and I'll run through it.
0:34:06 > 0:34:10- So I guess...- You're out the door, buddy, right now.
0:34:11 > 0:34:13An important part of the therapy
0:34:13 > 0:34:16is learning how to feel accepted by other men
0:34:16 > 0:34:19and to have the confidence to ask for a hug when you need one.
0:34:21 > 0:34:23Everybody, pull in, everybody.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35This is non-sexual.
0:34:36 > 0:34:42Nobody's sexualising this with you, this is just healthy buddies.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45You don't have to have sex with a guy to feel loved
0:34:45 > 0:34:48or to get a healthy touch.
0:34:50 > 0:34:51Tell me what you're feeling, Aaron.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55I'm a man, I have emotional needs and I have same-sex needs
0:34:55 > 0:34:58and I need those to be met, and I'm not gay.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05We'll love on you as long as you need.
0:35:05 > 0:35:07HE LAUGHS
0:35:08 > 0:35:12This feels really good right now, thanks, guys.
0:35:12 > 0:35:13You're welcome.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19While the guys are on their camping weekend,
0:35:19 > 0:35:23I'm taking the opportunity to visit Danny's wife, Erin,
0:35:23 > 0:35:26to find out more about their marriage and how honest
0:35:26 > 0:35:28she's able to be with friends and family.
0:35:29 > 0:35:31There we go.
0:35:31 > 0:35:33So, I know you know a lot of your neighbours,
0:35:33 > 0:35:37but they don't necessarily know why I'm here.
0:35:37 > 0:35:39- For sure. - What do we say, if they ask?
0:35:39 > 0:35:44So, I don't have any problems talking about Danny's therapy,
0:35:44 > 0:35:47so I would just say, "They're just here to document Danny's therapy."
0:35:47 > 0:35:49- OK.- But in regards to his aspect of it being SSA,
0:35:49 > 0:35:53- I'd probably keep that out. - OK. No, that's completely cool.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59'An online support group is Erin's only chance to be completely
0:35:59 > 0:36:02'open about her relationship.'
0:36:02 > 0:36:05And why is it important that you guys keep it to yourself?
0:36:05 > 0:36:08I feel like this is something sacred between us, and it's...
0:36:08 > 0:36:10I don't want people to judge.
0:36:10 > 0:36:12You know, I don't want to give people reasons to judge.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15Maybe that's my own insecurities and pride and stuff like that,
0:36:15 > 0:36:18but I don't feel like it's any of their business.
0:36:18 > 0:36:23I've got my secret that I don't like to disclose to everyone, so...
0:36:23 > 0:36:27- I placed a baby for adoption when I was 21.- Wow.
0:36:27 > 0:36:29Yeah, so that's something I don't go around saying, "Guess what?"
0:36:29 > 0:36:33You know, it's part of me and part of my past,
0:36:33 > 0:36:36and just like with this, with Danny, it's a part of him,
0:36:36 > 0:36:40and even though he is working on it presently and I have worked on mine
0:36:40 > 0:36:42in the past, it's something that's just not...
0:36:42 > 0:36:45I had my scarlet letter, he doesn't have a scarlet letter.
0:36:45 > 0:36:49I had to talk about it sometimes - "What are you doing knocked up?" you know.
0:36:49 > 0:36:51But with Danny, it's just private.
0:36:51 > 0:36:55Yeah. And was that baby with Danny?
0:36:55 > 0:36:56Uh-uh, it was with another guy,
0:36:56 > 0:36:59who treated me like... When me and my sister talk about
0:36:59 > 0:37:03how good Danny treats me, this guy was not.
0:37:03 > 0:37:04He was...
0:37:04 > 0:37:06He didn't love me and I loved him,
0:37:06 > 0:37:09and so he didn't treat me with respect, you know?
0:37:09 > 0:37:12So I gave him my all and he didn't give it in return.
0:37:12 > 0:37:17Do you think that makes it easier for you to accept Danny how he is?
0:37:17 > 0:37:18For sure, for sure, yeah.
0:37:20 > 0:37:21I, um...
0:37:21 > 0:37:23BABY CRIES
0:37:23 > 0:37:25Oh, no! What's wrong?
0:37:25 > 0:37:26I was a little bit hesitant to tell you,
0:37:26 > 0:37:29just because I don't want it to seem like I settled for Danny
0:37:29 > 0:37:32because of my past, and that's not it at all.
0:37:32 > 0:37:36If anything, you know, he settled for me, you know?
0:37:37 > 0:37:39We all have our past, so...
0:37:40 > 0:37:43And it does make me so that I'm more accepting of Danny,
0:37:43 > 0:37:46and I'm so much more...
0:37:46 > 0:37:50He really treats me so amazing, and I've...
0:37:50 > 0:37:53I know, because I've been there before in bad situations.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55Yeah, it makes a real difference, I think,
0:37:55 > 0:37:57when you've been with a bit of a wrong 'un
0:37:57 > 0:38:00and when you've been with someone who doesn't treat you very nicely,
0:38:00 > 0:38:03then you meet someone who does treat you lovely...
0:38:03 > 0:38:06- "Oh, this is really nice!" - Yeah, yeah.
0:38:16 > 0:38:18Man, I miss my bed.
0:38:18 > 0:38:21'It's the final morning of camp
0:38:21 > 0:38:25'and I've come back to find out how the guys have got on.'
0:38:25 > 0:38:28Before coming on the trip, TJ felt his sexual attraction to men
0:38:28 > 0:38:31had already been reduced to a very low level and I'm curious
0:38:31 > 0:38:34to find out if the weekend has changed anything for him.
0:38:36 > 0:38:37How was yesterday?
0:38:37 > 0:38:39It was good, I really enjoyed it.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42It was just really cool to watch a lot of the dads
0:38:42 > 0:38:44just, kind of, breakdown, right down in front of their sons.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47It was just a really cool...moment.
0:38:47 > 0:38:49- How are you feeling in you? - Good, you know.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52Being out here and being in the woods, away from the city
0:38:52 > 0:38:55and being with a bunch of guys, it's just...
0:38:55 > 0:38:58It's refreshing, you know? It kind of reminds me why I'm fighting.
0:38:58 > 0:39:00Do you feel stronger?
0:39:00 > 0:39:04Do you feel like the homosexual feelings have gone down?
0:39:04 > 0:39:07I haven't noticed, you know, any more of a drop,
0:39:07 > 0:39:10just me feeling stronger in my own masculinity,
0:39:10 > 0:39:12me feeling more confident about myself.
0:39:12 > 0:39:15- So there's no change with women? - Not much.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18I am kind of just noticing them more
0:39:18 > 0:39:21and maybe that's where it starts,
0:39:21 > 0:39:25but there's not any big, like, "Oh my goodness!" you know?
0:39:25 > 0:39:27Are you anxious, TJ, that they just won't ever come -
0:39:27 > 0:39:30- those feelings aren't meant for you? - No.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33I know it is just going to take time.
0:39:33 > 0:39:38And there's a big part of me that just wants to start liking boobies now!
0:39:38 > 0:39:41- "Can you just hurry up and let me like boobs, please?"- Exactly!
0:39:41 > 0:39:44- What will be, will be, TJ. - Yeah, and it will take time.
0:39:45 > 0:39:47The weekend has come to an end,
0:39:47 > 0:39:50but there's one final piece of camp business to be done.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53We're going to take each team, you're going to come
0:39:53 > 0:39:56and stand in the middle, and we are going to have you
0:39:56 > 0:39:58tell the other person the gold that you see in them.
0:40:00 > 0:40:03Aaron, the gold I see in you is a compassion for people.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08The weakness that you see is the strength that I see.
0:40:08 > 0:40:10'I'm moved to see that the camp
0:40:10 > 0:40:13'has brought fathers and sons closer together.'
0:40:13 > 0:40:16Skyler, the gold I see in you is the ability to...
0:40:19 > 0:40:21..love others unconditionally.
0:40:21 > 0:40:23To accept them for who they are...
0:40:26 > 0:40:30..and to give up yourself... for the good of others.
0:40:31 > 0:40:33I love you.
0:40:33 > 0:40:36'The guys have been able to be more open about their homosexuality,
0:40:36 > 0:40:38'something they usually have to hide.
0:40:38 > 0:40:42'But I'm also aware that boys as young as 17 are being told
0:40:42 > 0:40:46'that their natural attractions are a fault that can be fixed.'
0:40:47 > 0:40:50What's been the best part of the weekend for you?
0:40:50 > 0:40:55Me and my dad came together, and, for me, a big...
0:40:55 > 0:41:00Like, the core of all my problems was the horrible relationship I had with my dad.
0:41:00 > 0:41:04And a problem that's been, like, 17 years in the making
0:41:04 > 0:41:07has been almost fixed within a day.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10- I cried for the first time, like, ever.- Yeah?
0:41:10 > 0:41:12I don't cry, that never happens.
0:41:12 > 0:41:16Usually, in the past, I would try to, like,
0:41:16 > 0:41:20cover up my emotional pain through physical pain.
0:41:20 > 0:41:23I would cut myself or I would do something just to distract myself
0:41:23 > 0:41:26from the emotional pain, just so that it was less,
0:41:26 > 0:41:28cos I hated feeling the way that I did.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32I know my dad, and I know that he can handle almost anything,
0:41:32 > 0:41:33except...
0:41:33 > 0:41:37This was the one thing he wouldn't tolerate, I guess.
0:41:37 > 0:41:40Now he understands. This weekend has been a good thing for both of us,
0:41:40 > 0:41:42because now he knows, you know,
0:41:42 > 0:41:45just because you have same-sex attraction doesn't mean you're gay
0:41:45 > 0:41:49and it doesn't mean that you like everyone, every guy you see.
0:41:49 > 0:41:52It's not something like that, it's, you know...
0:41:52 > 0:41:55It's unwanted, at least for me, so that give him some hope that,
0:41:55 > 0:41:57you know, we can change and everything.
0:41:59 > 0:42:00You can do this.
0:42:03 > 0:42:07People that are pro-conversion therapy will argue and say,
0:42:07 > 0:42:1117-year-olds should have absolutely as much choice as everyone else.
0:42:11 > 0:42:13It should be open for all.
0:42:14 > 0:42:16But then you have to think,
0:42:16 > 0:42:19has the 17-year-old really been given a choice?
0:42:19 > 0:42:22Has the 17-year old been sat down and told that being a gay man
0:42:22 > 0:42:25is on a par with being a straight man, that they're both equally OK?
0:42:25 > 0:42:29You know, whatever you choose, they're both the same?
0:42:29 > 0:42:30I don't think they have.
0:42:30 > 0:42:34You're not allowed to have a beer over here until you're 21,
0:42:34 > 0:42:37but you're allowed to go to a camp and be moulded
0:42:37 > 0:42:40and be taught different ways to change yourself.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42It just doesn't sit comfy with me.
0:42:45 > 0:42:47There are no exact figures,
0:42:47 > 0:42:50but Floyd claims that around a third of those going through
0:42:50 > 0:42:53his type of therapy will get the result they want.
0:42:54 > 0:42:58'I've come to Long Beach, California, to meet a gay man
0:42:58 > 0:43:01'who tried various conversion programmes,
0:43:01 > 0:43:04'but in the end realised they were never going to work for him.'
0:43:05 > 0:43:08- Hello!- Hello. - Are you David?- Yes, I am.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11- I'm Stacey, thank you for having me. - Nice to meet you.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13Stacey, this is my boyfriend, my partner, Angel.
0:43:13 > 0:43:15Hello, how's things? Nice to meet you.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18- Nice to meet you, how are you? - I'm Stacey.- Angel.
0:43:18 > 0:43:19My God, what a handsome couple you are!
0:43:19 > 0:43:23- Look at the pair of you! Ding-ding-ding!- Oh, stop!
0:43:23 > 0:43:28Yeah, "Stop it, don't do it, don't say how handsome we look."
0:43:29 > 0:43:33'David is 26 years old and has known he's gay since childhood
0:43:33 > 0:43:35'but struggled to come to terms with it.'
0:43:37 > 0:43:39So, would you mind talking me through what these camps,
0:43:39 > 0:43:44conferences, all these things that you tried, what were they like?
0:43:44 > 0:43:46It wasn't all bad for me.
0:43:46 > 0:43:49In fact, at first, I was very grateful for that community,
0:43:49 > 0:43:53because I found, um...
0:43:53 > 0:43:57friends, I found people going through what I was going through.
0:43:57 > 0:44:03So, I found Christian men of all ages, and many of my own age,
0:44:03 > 0:44:07who were experiencing an attraction to men and didn't want to be gay.
0:44:07 > 0:44:10And I thought, "Oh, this is great," you know?
0:44:10 > 0:44:11"I'm home."
0:44:11 > 0:44:15It's just so interesting for me to sit here and listen to your story,
0:44:15 > 0:44:20because I've been spending time with young lads who are 17,
0:44:20 > 0:44:2419, 21, and they're going through the conversion therapy
0:44:24 > 0:44:29and they're going to similar things that you describe.
0:44:29 > 0:44:33It truly breaks my heart and it really frustrates me that...
0:44:34 > 0:44:39..parents would let their kids do that and that it's available.
0:44:39 > 0:44:45Suicidality is still high in young, gay teens.
0:44:46 > 0:44:48Teenagers shouldn't be exposed to it.
0:44:48 > 0:44:52They shouldn't be subjected, or it shouldn't be an option for them.
0:44:54 > 0:44:56'After quitting the conversion courses,
0:44:56 > 0:45:01'David accepted his homosexuality and is now able to live
0:45:01 > 0:45:02'as an openly gay man.'
0:45:02 > 0:45:05- Is your Angel here? - I think I see them.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08'Although none of his friends have tried to change,
0:45:08 > 0:45:10'they do know how hard it can be to come out.'
0:45:12 > 0:45:15Why does this therapy even exist in this day and age?
0:45:15 > 0:45:18Do you think there's any place for it?
0:45:18 > 0:45:21A lot of people who pursue conversion therapy, I imagine,
0:45:21 > 0:45:26do so because they can't reconcile homosexuality with Scripture.
0:45:26 > 0:45:30But then, there's also a lot of internalised homophobia,
0:45:30 > 0:45:34and the need to want to feel accepted in society at large.
0:45:34 > 0:45:39Sometimes people will go to great lengths to feel accepted
0:45:39 > 0:45:41and the unfortunate thing is that
0:45:41 > 0:45:45the person who you need the most acceptance from is yourself.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48Coming out is a lot like a death in the family,
0:45:48 > 0:45:52because the person that everybody sort of pictured you as,
0:45:52 > 0:45:55this box that they put you in, is dead and gone
0:45:55 > 0:45:58and they have to sort of recognise this real person -
0:45:58 > 0:46:02who's really been there all along - is the real you.
0:46:02 > 0:46:05I would imagine the pressure going in the other direction
0:46:05 > 0:46:08is what drives a lot of people to try to change themselves,
0:46:08 > 0:46:11cos it's experienced like a death by others.
0:46:11 > 0:46:15It is my hope and I do believe that less and less people
0:46:15 > 0:46:21will pursue conversion therapy, as society continues moving
0:46:21 > 0:46:25in the direction of accepting homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality.
0:46:25 > 0:46:30Less and less people will feel the need to try to "fix" themselves.
0:46:38 > 0:46:40'It's been a few days since camp and I've come
0:46:40 > 0:46:45'to Skyler's family home in Arizona to see how he's getting on.
0:46:47 > 0:46:50'When I last saw him, he had high hopes that the therapy
0:46:50 > 0:46:53'was going to help him overcome his gay feelings.'
0:46:54 > 0:46:57What do you think you got from the camp, what's changed?
0:46:57 > 0:46:58Definitely the relationship with my dad.
0:46:58 > 0:47:02Obviously, that was a main concern of mine going into the weekend,
0:47:02 > 0:47:06but because of that, I don't know, we kind of bonded and connected
0:47:06 > 0:47:09on an emotional level we've never seen before.
0:47:09 > 0:47:11- And you've got a girlfriend, haven't you?- Yeah.
0:47:11 > 0:47:13How long have you been with your girlfriend?
0:47:13 > 0:47:16- It's only been like a month. But...- Oh!
0:47:16 > 0:47:17It's been very recent.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20- And does she know about any of this? - No.
0:47:20 > 0:47:23I mean, I have like my core group of people that know,
0:47:23 > 0:47:25and I feel like, as long as I have them
0:47:25 > 0:47:28and I can get through it, then it doesn't need to be shared.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30For me, personally, it's like,
0:47:30 > 0:47:34I like girls, but then again, there's this attraction to guys.
0:47:34 > 0:47:37- It's been like 60% girls, 40% guys...- OK.
0:47:37 > 0:47:39..if that makes sense.
0:47:39 > 0:47:41- What does she look like? - Do you want a picture?
0:47:41 > 0:47:42Have you got a picture?!
0:47:42 > 0:47:45- I do.- Genius!- She's gorgeous.
0:47:45 > 0:47:46- She's gorgeous, is she?- Yeah.
0:47:48 > 0:47:50All right, Skyler!
0:47:50 > 0:47:54- She's lovely!- I think so.
0:47:54 > 0:47:57"I hope this is for real, because I've definitely fallen for you."
0:47:57 > 0:48:00And then you've put, "You don't have to hope,
0:48:00 > 0:48:03"it is real and I've fallen..."
0:48:03 > 0:48:06You two are killing me! "..and I have fallen so hard for you, too."
0:48:06 > 0:48:08She's put, "Finally, how was it?"
0:48:08 > 0:48:11- "It was fun," that was camp.- Yeah.
0:48:11 > 0:48:12"But I definitely missed you."
0:48:12 > 0:48:15"I missed you. too. What did you guys do?"
0:48:15 > 0:48:20"We camped, swam in a river, ate disgusting food and had a good time."
0:48:20 > 0:48:24Oh, so you've put, "My dad and some of his co-workers."
0:48:24 > 0:48:27I tried to keep it as contained and minimal as possible
0:48:27 > 0:48:29with what I said.
0:48:29 > 0:48:33And when she came over after camp, did your dad have to pretend
0:48:33 > 0:48:37that you guys had gone on camp with co-workers, as well?
0:48:38 > 0:48:41We planned the whole story in the car ride home,
0:48:41 > 0:48:44so we had it set in stone, in case we ever had to say anything.
0:48:44 > 0:48:45Really?
0:48:45 > 0:48:47Is it going to be hard work?
0:48:47 > 0:48:50It sounds like you are having to change yourself and make yourself
0:48:50 > 0:48:53do things that you wouldn't necessarily have done before.
0:48:53 > 0:48:55Is it worth it, is it right?
0:48:55 > 0:48:59Yeah, I've been through a lot already,
0:48:59 > 0:49:02and I kind of feel like it's just good to have to continue,
0:49:02 > 0:49:07in order for me to come out as stronger.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10Like, I'm totally willing to go through it,
0:49:10 > 0:49:12if it means I'm going to be changed and everything.
0:49:12 > 0:49:13It's...
0:49:14 > 0:49:19It's not what I want. It almost kind of disgusts me a little bit.
0:49:19 > 0:49:23Cos I don't want that, but I have those attractions, at the same time,
0:49:23 > 0:49:24so it's just...
0:49:24 > 0:49:28Yeah, it blows my mind that my mind could want one thing
0:49:28 > 0:49:30and my heart another.
0:49:32 > 0:49:37So, yeah, that's not the lifestyle I want to live. you know.
0:49:38 > 0:49:41Are you all right? Cuddle.
0:49:44 > 0:49:46It's just a bit confusing, isn't it?
0:49:46 > 0:49:48- So confusing.- You'll be all right.
0:49:51 > 0:49:52Yeah, eventually.
0:49:52 > 0:49:55You have to be proud of who you are and what you are.
0:49:55 > 0:49:57- You're really cool.- Thanks.
0:49:57 > 0:50:00You're a really nice young lad. You just...
0:50:00 > 0:50:04You have to let yourself be what you want to be and you will get there.
0:50:04 > 0:50:06Those are my goals, yeah.
0:50:07 > 0:50:10It must be so confusing, I can't even imagine.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13Yeah, it's not as fun as it's cracked up to be.
0:50:17 > 0:50:20'Skyler's dad found camp very emotional
0:50:20 > 0:50:23'and I'm curious to know how his mum feels about the therapy.'
0:50:24 > 0:50:27How have the last couple of weeks...?
0:50:27 > 0:50:29I know you haven't known for very long.
0:50:29 > 0:50:31Did you ever think that Skyler could be gay?
0:50:31 > 0:50:34You know, there were little comments made that sometimes I'd go,
0:50:34 > 0:50:38"That might be something someone would say if they were",
0:50:38 > 0:50:42but at the same time, I would never have known that was a struggle.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44You don't want your kids to hurt.
0:50:44 > 0:50:47You want to fix their problems, you want to be like giving them
0:50:47 > 0:50:51a Band-Aid or an ice cream cone or something that makes them happy,
0:50:51 > 0:50:55so it's hard to watch, as they are older, to hurt.
0:50:55 > 0:51:00That's really what the reaction is for me, "OK, now what?"
0:51:01 > 0:51:03I can handle anything but him being gay.
0:51:03 > 0:51:05I mean, if he's gay, that's going to be tough.
0:51:06 > 0:51:12It's just the thought, for me, personally, is quite repulsive.
0:51:13 > 0:51:17To try and think of having any kind of sexual relations
0:51:17 > 0:51:21with a man instead of a woman just is unnatural and doesn't make sense to me.
0:51:21 > 0:51:27There's a lot of controversy around gay conversion therapy.
0:51:27 > 0:51:30Do you worry that Skyler's too young to deal with all of this?
0:51:30 > 0:51:34I don't know, I don't think it's wrong for him to have it this early.
0:51:34 > 0:51:39- I think it's wrong to not. - Do you?- Absolutely.
0:51:39 > 0:51:40And to not provide...
0:51:40 > 0:51:45Why not give somebody some clarity or some education, you know,
0:51:45 > 0:51:48to make an educated decision,
0:51:48 > 0:51:51rather than an emotional decision?
0:51:52 > 0:51:54I'm thankful for it.
0:51:54 > 0:51:57I think that, if not, I'd be worried about a son
0:51:57 > 0:51:59that put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.
0:51:59 > 0:52:04I mean, he's already attempted suicide once before, so,
0:52:04 > 0:52:07rather than getting him help, that's the answer?
0:52:07 > 0:52:10Let him kill himself?
0:52:10 > 0:52:13I think, from my understanding, from what I sort of took from
0:52:13 > 0:52:16speaking to Floyd and other people involved in conversion therapy,
0:52:16 > 0:52:20is there are lots of good things about the therapy - you know,
0:52:20 > 0:52:22being able to speak to someone and open up
0:52:22 > 0:52:25and tell them what's going on - that can only be a good thing,
0:52:25 > 0:52:28I think, especially for someone like Skyler.
0:52:28 > 0:52:33But the underlying feeling is that homosexuality can be...
0:52:34 > 0:52:38..cured, it can be repaired, as if it's...
0:52:39 > 0:52:42..something that needs to be repaired.
0:52:42 > 0:52:48None of us would be around today if God intended it to be man with man.
0:52:48 > 0:52:52Pure and simple. It wasn't Adam and Steve, it's Adam and Eve.
0:52:52 > 0:52:54SHE LAUGHS
0:52:54 > 0:52:59So, when God created man and woman, he didn't create two men,
0:52:59 > 0:53:01and, you know, they're not made to birth.
0:53:04 > 0:53:07'Skyler's parents' attitude to homosexuality is rooted
0:53:07 > 0:53:12'in their conservative religious beliefs and I can't help feeling
0:53:12 > 0:53:15'concerned about the pressure this may put on him.'
0:53:16 > 0:53:20It's certainly very important that this issue,
0:53:20 > 0:53:23with giving this kind of therapy to minors,
0:53:23 > 0:53:26is seriously, seriously looked at, because...
0:53:28 > 0:53:31..I think Skyler's so desperate to turn himself straight,
0:53:31 > 0:53:38so desperate to get rid of these feelings that he says disgusts him,
0:53:38 > 0:53:42if it doesn't work, like it doesn't for so many people,
0:53:42 > 0:53:44that would worry me, that would make me...
0:53:47 > 0:53:51..panic about the kind of state that Skyler could get himself into.
0:54:07 > 0:54:09'My time here is coming to an end,
0:54:09 > 0:54:12'but there is one more visit I need to make.
0:54:12 > 0:54:15'I've come to LA to meet Joseph Nicolosi,
0:54:15 > 0:54:17'a founder of gay conversion therapy.
0:54:19 > 0:54:21'His books on the subject have been sold around the world
0:54:21 > 0:54:24'and it was his teachings that Floyd turned to
0:54:24 > 0:54:27'when he couldn't accept his own homosexuality.'
0:54:28 > 0:54:31In your opinion, why are people gay?
0:54:31 > 0:54:34We believe that people have same-sex attractions
0:54:34 > 0:54:38because of childhood trauma, particularly attachment trauma.
0:54:38 > 0:54:42The male homosexual is not bonded with the father,
0:54:42 > 0:54:45the lesbian is not bonded with the mother
0:54:45 > 0:54:51and they are seeking the same-sex activity as a way of connecting.
0:54:51 > 0:54:53And what about gay people that will tell you,
0:54:53 > 0:54:56"I've got a perfect relationship with my parents.
0:54:56 > 0:55:00"My dad was spot-on, mum was great, everything ticked along nicely"?
0:55:00 > 0:55:04I will tell you very clearly, over the many years of work
0:55:04 > 0:55:09I've been doing, thousands of men, I have never met a homosexual
0:55:09 > 0:55:12who had a loving, respectful relationship with his father.
0:55:12 > 0:55:15- Really?- Yes.
0:55:15 > 0:55:17As much as you say there's no evidence to suggest there's
0:55:17 > 0:55:20a gay gene or it's biological, you're born that way,
0:55:20 > 0:55:24there's certainly no evidence to suggest what you're saying.
0:55:24 > 0:55:28There is no gay gene. They have not discovered a gay gene.
0:55:28 > 0:55:32- And so the evidence points to early childhood experiences.- Some evidence.
0:55:32 > 0:55:35There's evidence for both arguments.
0:55:35 > 0:55:36Let me give you an example.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39I met this young guy, 17, he's incredibly young,
0:55:39 > 0:55:43he's got these feelings, he's so confused by them,
0:55:43 > 0:55:47and he comes from a family and a background
0:55:47 > 0:55:50that have always installed some level of homophobia,
0:55:50 > 0:55:55whether they've done it blatantly or it's been kind of just trickling through.
0:55:55 > 0:55:59I think that if you say heterosexuality is more normal
0:55:59 > 0:56:03and natural, that it's more in fitting with nature,
0:56:03 > 0:56:07that man is designed to be heterosexual,
0:56:07 > 0:56:10that is not homophobia.
0:56:10 > 0:56:14If a parent comes to me and says, "My son is showing indications
0:56:14 > 0:56:19"of homosexuality, we would like whatever therapy is available
0:56:19 > 0:56:22"to increase the probability of his being heterosexual",
0:56:22 > 0:56:24that's not homophobia.
0:56:30 > 0:56:33'I set out to discover whether it's possible to choose
0:56:33 > 0:56:37'your sexuality and make yourself straight.
0:56:37 > 0:56:41'I have my doubts, but along the way I've met people who believe
0:56:41 > 0:56:45'that gay conversion therapy has helped them to live the life they want
0:56:45 > 0:56:47'and are happy with the choice they've made.
0:56:47 > 0:56:51'But what about the majority who don't get the result they want?
0:56:51 > 0:56:56'I hate the thought that they could be left believing there is something wrong with them,
0:56:56 > 0:56:59'something broken, that really can't be fixed.
0:56:59 > 0:57:01'In the end, can they learn to just accept themselves
0:57:01 > 0:57:04'and be proud of who they are?'
0:57:19 > 0:57:22Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd