0:00:02 > 0:00:05I'm Stacey Dooley, and this is Luton, where I was born.
0:00:05 > 0:00:09I went to school here, I even worked at the airport.
0:00:09 > 0:00:13And then I moved away, but now I'm coming home to find out if it's true
0:00:13 > 0:00:16that Muslim extremists are taking over my town.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:20 > 0:00:22Do I look naked?! Do I really?!
0:00:22 > 0:00:25And if it is why the white right wing are on the rise here.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27THEY CHANT: EDL!
0:00:27 > 0:00:30I wanted to find out what's happening in my home town.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33I want to track down the people I grew up with,
0:00:33 > 0:00:35including this man, Stephen Lennon.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37Racist? Tattoo it there!
0:00:37 > 0:00:39I used to know Stephen.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42Now he runs the English Defence League, a right-wing protest group
0:00:42 > 0:00:47- launched in Luton to oppose what he sees as Islamic extremism. - You scum!
0:00:47 > 0:00:51Coming back home, I had no idea what I was letting myself in for.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53You are a naive woman.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Don't you dare speak to me like that!
0:00:55 > 0:00:58No, listen, this is my home town as well.
0:00:58 > 0:00:59Listen! Listen!
0:00:59 > 0:01:01# Feeling the hate! #
0:01:09 > 0:01:12Luton is notorious.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16Every time you hear a story to do with extremism or terrorism,
0:01:16 > 0:01:20Luton's somehow involved.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22When I was growing up, I've been in Luton all my life,
0:01:22 > 0:01:27I never, ever, ever heard the words "extremism", "terrorism".
0:01:27 > 0:01:28It was never an issue for me.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31And now, whenever you say, "I'm from Luton,"
0:01:31 > 0:01:34they're the words that creep up. It's a shame.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37You don't want your home town to be associated with that
0:01:37 > 0:01:43kind of carry-on, but unfortunately, at the moment...it is.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49'Over the last four years, I've been travelling,
0:01:49 > 0:01:53'making films abroad and living away from Luton.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55'Now I'm back, and I want to find out from my old friends
0:01:55 > 0:01:58'why my home town's becoming so divided.'
0:01:58 > 0:01:59I'm back in my roots.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02'And can anything be done about it?'
0:02:02 > 0:02:05I'm going to have to become a bit of a stalker,
0:02:05 > 0:02:08get on the old social networking,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11Facebook, going to have to get on the phone, just ring people
0:02:11 > 0:02:14that I used to go to school with, used to knock about with.
0:02:14 > 0:02:20So I just really want to hassle everyone I know.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22The first person I want to talk to
0:02:22 > 0:02:25is English Defence League leader Stephen Lennon.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28I haven't seen him for six years.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30I grew up in the same area as Stephen.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33And I knew of him and we spoke.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36You know, we weren't pally, but we knew each other.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39I don't ever remember hearing him say things that I thought,
0:02:39 > 0:02:41"Jeez, man, that's racist."
0:02:41 > 0:02:45It's nuts to think that he's the leader of the EDL. It's crazy.
0:02:45 > 0:02:49And I don't know why. It would be interesting to know why.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52'I hear Stephen is in town to do a radio interview.'
0:02:52 > 0:02:56I'm about to make a phone call to BBC Three Counties radio.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58They're the local radio station,
0:02:58 > 0:03:01they're literally just down the road, so the guy, Toby,
0:03:01 > 0:03:03he's having a big discussion, a debate,
0:03:03 > 0:03:05because it's the tenth anniversary for 9/11.
0:03:05 > 0:03:09So I know he's got a couple of people coming in, talking about it -
0:03:09 > 0:03:11how does Luton perceive Muslims now?
0:03:11 > 0:03:13Is it differently before? La, la, la...
0:03:13 > 0:03:16So I'm going to give him a tinkle.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19'We've got a few different people coming on.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21'We've got a guy called Inayat Bunglawala
0:03:21 > 0:03:23'and then we've also got Stephen Lennon,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26'who is the leader of the EDL.'
0:03:26 > 0:03:30I'm made up that I am able to come down and have a listen.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32It sounds great.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37I would be lying if I said, "I don't feel nervous,
0:03:37 > 0:03:42"I don't feel uneasy speaking to Stephen about what he thinks," because I do.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45I know him, and that makes it tricky.
0:03:45 > 0:03:50- INTERCOM:- 'Hello?'- Morning! It's Stacey Dooley. I've come to see Toby.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54- 'Okey-dokey, I'll let you in.' - Lovely, Ta. Thank you.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57'When I get to the radio station, the debate is in full swing.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59'Stephen Lennon hasn't showed up.'
0:03:59 > 0:04:04How do you think Muslims in Luton are viewed by the rest
0:04:04 > 0:04:06of the community, non-Muslim?
0:04:06 > 0:04:09First of all, we have to make clear that
0:04:09 > 0:04:12the whole 9/11 terrorist attacks were designed to polarise community,
0:04:12 > 0:04:17they were designed to entrench the "them and us" mentality.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19The EDL, "We're very proper, we've got a voice,
0:04:19 > 0:04:23"we've got really valid points, we want to tell you them...
0:04:23 > 0:04:25"But we're not going to turn up."
0:04:25 > 0:04:29- Hello! How's things? Toby, thanks for letting me have a listen. - That's all right.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33- No worries.- Hello, how's things? I'm Stacey, lovely to meet you.
0:04:33 > 0:04:34Hello, Jim. You all right?
0:04:34 > 0:04:37I put on Facebook I'm appearing on this and
0:04:37 > 0:04:41I've had numerous groups saying, "Jim, you cannot debate, share
0:04:41 > 0:04:46- "a platform with EDL," but I felt it was an opportunity I could not miss. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:04:46 > 0:04:49They have a democratic right to express themselves.
0:04:49 > 0:04:54Provided they do it within the law, I support that for any group.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56Have you met any of the people in the EDL, Jim?
0:04:56 > 0:05:01Well, I met them from a distance, separated by police lines.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03But I've gone to many demonstrations.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06They're not a nice bunch of people.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08Individually, you can talk with them,
0:05:08 > 0:05:10and they have got certain concerns
0:05:10 > 0:05:14which are general concerns that the general population has.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18- Yeah.- But the way they articulate that as a group is frightening.
0:05:18 > 0:05:23'No EDL at the radio station, so I see Stephen's at work.'
0:05:23 > 0:05:25This is...
0:05:28 > 0:05:30..Stephen's shop.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37It's very flash, isn't it? No-one's in, I don't think. No.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42It's funny, isn't it, when you think of the head of EDL,
0:05:42 > 0:05:47you think of a very man's man and "grrr" and tattoos and a bald head,
0:05:47 > 0:05:50and actually, he owns a tanning shop,
0:05:50 > 0:05:54and he's constantly got a glow, which is quite funny!
0:05:54 > 0:05:57Got to look good if you're in the media all the time!
0:05:59 > 0:06:04I later find out Stephen's been arrested for taking part in a protest.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06I didn't know when he'd be back,
0:06:06 > 0:06:09so I decided to head to the part of town where he's hated most.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14Luton is 30 miles north of London.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17It's most famous for its airport and Vauxhall cars,
0:06:17 > 0:06:20which was the main reason Asian immigrants came here.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25In 2000, however, the factory relocated,
0:06:25 > 0:06:27leaving thousands unemployed.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31- I used to work for Vauxhall myself for eight years.- Wow! Did you?
0:06:31 > 0:06:35- Yes, it was quite nice. It's a shame that the company went down.- Yeah.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38Vauxhall closing down was a real shame for Luton.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40It was a dark time for Luton.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44- Yes, it's a lot of jobs to go, just straightaway.- That's it.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Those Asian immigrants working in the factory started
0:06:47 > 0:06:50moving into one area called Bury Park
0:06:50 > 0:06:54and the nearly 30,000 strong Asian community has remained here
0:06:54 > 0:06:58even after Vauxhall massively scaled down in Luton.
0:06:58 > 0:06:59This is Bury Park.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01It's a famous part of Luton. It's where a lot
0:07:01 > 0:07:06of the Muslim population lives, loads of Asian people live here.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10I've not actually shopped here at all.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13I've literally been here once or twice.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16Drove through it and stuff, and it is really interesting,
0:07:16 > 0:07:19because we are in an English town,
0:07:19 > 0:07:22but you could easily mistake it for not being English.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24Easily.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27There's loads of different mosques in Luton, is that right?
0:07:27 > 0:07:29- It is, yeah.- How many would you say?
0:07:29 > 0:07:34- Roughly, we are looking at least 30 mosques in Luton area.- Wow.
0:07:34 > 0:07:38- That's quite a lot, no? - It's quite a lot.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41It didn't take long to witness first-hand the extremism
0:07:41 > 0:07:42I'd been hearing about.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47VOICE SHOUTS THROUGH MEGAPHONE AND CROWD CHANTS IN REPONSE
0:08:02 > 0:08:04I wasn't sure what they were marching for,
0:08:04 > 0:08:07but tensions were running high.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17It turns out the demo was in response to the arrest
0:08:17 > 0:08:22of local woman Mona Thwany whose husband set off a bomb in Stockholm in 2010.
0:08:22 > 0:08:28I cannot believe this. I've never seen anything on this scale before.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32And it breaks my heart to think that this is happening in my town.
0:08:32 > 0:08:36- Hands off Muslims! - Hands off Muslims!
0:08:36 > 0:08:37Hands off Muslims!
0:08:37 > 0:08:39Everyone's got a right to protest,
0:08:39 > 0:08:44but I found their chanting provocative and extreme.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52Police burn in hell? British police burn in hell?
0:08:54 > 0:08:57No real Muslim wants anyone to burn in hell.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00You can't pick and choose. You can't.
0:09:06 > 0:09:10Do I look naked?! Do I really?! I don't look naked.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15No-one's trying to seduce me. I'm not trying to seduce anyone.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17You shouldn't judge me, how I try not to judge you.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20You've just said, who am I trying to seduce? No-one!
0:09:22 > 0:09:25Well, I don't judge you, because I'm above that.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30Excuse me? Go and put on some clothes?! How you choose to live...
0:09:30 > 0:09:34No. You choose to dress like that. I choose to dress like this.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36Don't start!
0:09:36 > 0:09:38MEN CLAMOUR
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Don't you dare speak to me like that. No!
0:09:41 > 0:09:43This is my home town as well!
0:09:43 > 0:09:48- All right, have a nice day, then. - No, I'm walking. I'm walking.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51- No, I can do what I want. - If I start pointing at you...
0:09:51 > 0:09:54I don't mind! Point away. Point away.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57Because you're not scaring me.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00I try my hardest to sympathise with people who are maybe
0:10:00 > 0:10:04different to me, and there's a tiny minority that play up.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06"Who are you trying to seduce?
0:10:06 > 0:10:09"Go and put some clothes on, you look naked."
0:10:12 > 0:10:13Oh...
0:10:13 > 0:10:17They have been arrested, they have been harassed by the police...
0:10:17 > 0:10:18Such a shame.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20..no evidence whatsoever!
0:10:20 > 0:10:24Do you think it's fair that you say British police need to burn in hell?
0:10:27 > 0:10:31In Islam, doesn't it say you have to respect the law of the land you live in?
0:10:31 > 0:10:33I thought it did.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41One of the saddest things is people have brought their kids along.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45Any extreme group with extreme views should probably try
0:10:45 > 0:10:47and leave their kids out of it
0:10:47 > 0:10:51until they're old enough to make their own decision.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54How are we ever going to get there if they keep involving kids?
0:10:54 > 0:10:58Maybe I could get some sense out of Anjem Choudary
0:10:58 > 0:11:02who I'd seen in the media spouting lots of extreme Islamic ideas.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08Please may you tell me who this group are and why you're out today?
0:11:08 > 0:11:12You find here today a number of people from Luton who are just
0:11:12 > 0:11:15ordinary Muslims from the local community.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17Some of them used to be part of Al-Muhajiroun
0:11:17 > 0:11:19or Muslims Against Crusades.
0:11:19 > 0:11:23We're here today because of the raid of two Muslim women earlier this month
0:11:23 > 0:11:27and they were also strip-searched, so that is a violation of their honour.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30What's the solution? If Muslim people are in the wrong
0:11:30 > 0:11:33and they are committing crimes, no-one's above the law.
0:11:33 > 0:11:36- If the law of the land is Islamic, we respect it.- What if it's not Islamic?
0:11:36 > 0:11:41- Then the law of the land and those who make it can go to hell. - Oh, my God!
0:11:41 > 0:11:44Allah said in the Koran, in chapter 33, verse one, he said,
0:11:44 > 0:11:47"Oh, prophet, fear Allah and do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites."
0:11:47 > 0:11:50Is David Cameron a Muslim or a disbeliever? Guys?
0:11:50 > 0:11:53- I can't speak on Cameron. - A disbeliever. You can't obey him.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56So he can go to hell, as well as all the other leaders.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59Do you think I should go to hell because I'm a nonbeliever?
0:11:59 > 0:12:03- You're on your way to the hellfire because you're a non-Muslim. - You can change course!
0:12:03 > 0:12:06- All non-Muslims are destined for the hellfire.- You really believe that?
0:12:06 > 0:12:10You will be fuel for the hellfire. But you have an opportunity to change.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13That hurts me that you think that, because you don't really know me,
0:12:13 > 0:12:16and you think I am destined for hell, because I'm not a Muslim.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19But you said you're not a Muslim. If you're not a Muslim,
0:12:19 > 0:12:22you're destined for the hellfire unless you change.
0:12:22 > 0:12:27'I find it sad that anyone would preach such a damning message.'
0:12:29 > 0:12:33The only consolation is that of the 30,000 Muslims living in Luton,
0:12:33 > 0:12:36there are less than 100 at this rally.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41I don't even know how to sum up in words,
0:12:41 > 0:12:44even to tell you how I'm feeling right now.
0:12:44 > 0:12:50I feel...completely gutted. Gutted that this is happening.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53SHE SIGHS
0:12:53 > 0:12:56In the end, we will have victory!
0:12:56 > 0:12:59I do feel shocked at this protest, but surely,
0:12:59 > 0:13:04this isn't a true representation of all the Muslims in Luton?
0:13:04 > 0:13:06I need to track down my old Asian pals.
0:13:07 > 0:13:10Time to go back to school.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12You know what? I was literally late every single day.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15My mum would go, "Why do you do it to yourself every morning?!"
0:13:15 > 0:13:20And I'd go, "Mum! Just shut up!"
0:13:21 > 0:13:25'I couldn't believe some of my old teachers were still there."
0:13:25 > 0:13:28- Oh, my God!- Oh, my God!
0:13:28 > 0:13:30- How's things?!- How are you doing?
0:13:30 > 0:13:33'They brought out some embarrassing photos.'
0:13:35 > 0:13:38SHE SHRIEKS WITH LAUGHTER
0:13:38 > 0:13:42This is me! Look at me there!
0:13:42 > 0:13:43There's Melissa.
0:13:43 > 0:13:47- Oh, wow. Alicia here. - Are you in touch with any of them?
0:13:47 > 0:13:52I m still pally with Alicia, I still speak to Alicia, but not so much.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55'Sadly, my teachers didn't have any contact numbers for
0:13:55 > 0:13:56'my old friends friends.'
0:13:56 > 0:13:59Of course, hear the kids are all pally,
0:13:59 > 0:14:02they are all very mixed - black lads, white lads, Asian lads,
0:14:02 > 0:14:05they go about together, and that's nice, and I hope that continues
0:14:05 > 0:14:09in their adult life, because it's not what happened with me.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12Maybe it's because, you know, when I was 17, 18,
0:14:12 > 0:14:14I was going out on the town, boozing,
0:14:14 > 0:14:18I was a bit of a free spirit, and maybe my Asian girlfriends, well,
0:14:18 > 0:14:21they didn't come out to town with me, they didn't drink.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23They were very focused, very steady.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26I tried to contact my old schoolmates.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29VOICEMAIL: 'Please try again later.'
0:14:29 > 0:14:31Even one friend who had converted to Islam.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33How's things? It's Stacey Dooley.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36I was getting nowhere until one old pal did agree to meet me.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38Thanks ever so much! Bye now!
0:14:41 > 0:14:45Right now, I'm on my way to meet a girl called Ammaarah.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48We went to school together, same junior, same high school.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51She is what I would class as a moderate Muslim.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54She takes her faith very seriously
0:14:54 > 0:14:56and she's quite into her religion,
0:14:56 > 0:14:59so I think she'll be really in the know.
0:14:59 > 0:15:04- Ammaarah!- Hi! How are you? How's things?- It's been so long.
0:15:04 > 0:15:09- Oh, my God, you look beautiful!- So do you.- You look totally happening.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11Hello, love! God, Ammaarah, how's things?
0:15:11 > 0:15:15- I haven't seen you in eight years. - Yeah.- What's been going on?
0:15:15 > 0:15:18- Work, work, work.- I know that feeling.- And you're all over TV.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20I know! What's that all about?!
0:15:20 > 0:15:24- I've got something to show you. - What is it?- A picture.
0:15:25 > 0:15:28- Oh, God, Ammaarah, you're killing me!- I look horrible.
0:15:28 > 0:15:32- You haven't got your scarf on there. - I didn't used to have one.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34When did you start wearing your headscarf?
0:15:34 > 0:15:37- Did you wear it at school? - No, halfway through college.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40Don't worry, I didn't get forced!
0:15:40 > 0:15:43No-one will force you to do anything, Ammaarah.
0:15:43 > 0:15:47I don't know how much you know about why I'm back in Luton.
0:15:47 > 0:15:51You know in the press, sometimes Islam gets a rough old time,
0:15:51 > 0:15:55and me, myself, I know that there's really amazing Muslim people
0:15:55 > 0:15:57in this town, and I know you're totally cool, Ammaarah,
0:15:57 > 0:16:01you're such a nice girl. You do take your faith seriously.
0:16:01 > 0:16:05- Yeah, I do.- Quite strict, aren't you, about your praying?- I'm not strict.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07I would say I'm moderate.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11What is the difference between moderate and strict?
0:16:11 > 0:16:14Strict, I would still, strict people, I would say,
0:16:14 > 0:16:18they don't really freely mixed with guys and they wouldn't talk to
0:16:18 > 0:16:21boys they're not related to, whereas I go out with my cousins,
0:16:21 > 0:16:24I have guys that I talk to, not because I am flirting or anything,
0:16:24 > 0:16:26but I talk to them on a daily basis.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28At work, you're talking to people all the time.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32'After recently coming across Islamic extremists,
0:16:32 > 0:16:36'I wanted to know from Ammaarah whether this was the norm for Luton.'
0:16:36 > 0:16:39For Luton to be seen as a place of extremism,
0:16:39 > 0:16:40I think that's ridiculous.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43Every single town has a few bad people or, not bad people,
0:16:43 > 0:16:45but people with different views.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48There's a couple of people who actually preach on the streets.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51In Bury Park, there is a table and they have leaflets,
0:16:51 > 0:16:53and those people get focused on.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56But I've not actually stopped to see what they're about.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59They're just sharing out leaflets and talking to people,
0:16:59 > 0:17:03but those are the only two or three people who want to share the message.
0:17:03 > 0:17:08But it's like, whoever shouts the loudest seems to get heard the most.
0:17:08 > 0:17:10I don't think a lot of people know what Islam's about.
0:17:10 > 0:17:15They know Islam because of what the TV says, what the media says,
0:17:15 > 0:17:18and they believe it without questioning it.
0:17:18 > 0:17:19It was great to see Ammaarah.
0:17:19 > 0:17:22Her observation about those who shout the loudest reminded me
0:17:22 > 0:17:26of another extreme group in Luton, the English Defence League.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31In 2009, soldiers from a Luton regiment returning
0:17:31 > 0:17:35from Afghanistan were spat on and shouted at by 12 radical Muslims.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38In retaliation, non-Muslims fought back.
0:17:39 > 0:17:41You scum!
0:17:44 > 0:17:45And out of this came the EDL...
0:17:48 > 0:17:51..a group that steadily gained support across Britain
0:17:51 > 0:17:55for its campaign against the Islamic movement, but many believe they are
0:17:55 > 0:17:59a racist, violent organisation that recruit from football terraces.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03So far, I hadn't managed to speak to its leader, Stephen Lennon,
0:18:03 > 0:18:07who I used to know, but he's agreed to meet me at Stockwood Park Golf club.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13While I'm waiting, other golfers are keen to give their opinion.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16- The trouble with Luton is, we've lost the town.- Do you feel like that?
0:18:16 > 0:18:18- Every big city has gone in this country.- Really?
0:18:18 > 0:18:21I really do. People who don't live in big cities
0:18:21 > 0:18:22don't realise what is going on.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25- Right.- That's not being racist, that's being factual.- No!
0:18:25 > 0:18:28These people come in, if they want to be in our country,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31they should live like we do, live through our rules.
0:18:31 > 0:18:32If you went to Mecca
0:18:32 > 0:18:35and wanted to put a Catholic church there, you couldn't.
0:18:35 > 0:18:36- It's tricky, isn't it?- Hm.
0:18:36 > 0:18:39I think I've been stood up.
0:18:39 > 0:18:44I've been stood up and blown out. Again! I have that effect on men.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48Just keep my fingers crossed.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51Yet again, Stephen Lennon has failed to show,
0:18:51 > 0:18:55but at least this time his number two Kev Carroll has turned up.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59Some say the EDL are very aggressive so I wanted to hear
0:18:59 > 0:19:02his take on that march that seemed to polarise my home town.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05And we saw the placards. We ran up there
0:19:05 > 0:19:08and it turned out to be the Muslim extremists.
0:19:08 > 0:19:09None of them were searched.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12They let them get so close to our soldiers.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15They could have had C-4. One of them could have pushed the button
0:19:15 > 0:19:18and took out half of that regiment. That's a joke.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20Was there violence? Was there fighting?
0:19:20 > 0:19:24People were trying to get them. Them Muslim extremists scum that did needed
0:19:24 > 0:19:28a punch on the bloody nose or a punch on the nose to make it bloody.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31Do you feel you had no alternative but to form?
0:19:31 > 0:19:33That was the straw that broke the camel's back.
0:19:33 > 0:19:39That was just like, you are now taking the piss.
0:19:39 > 0:19:40We get demonised by the press.
0:19:40 > 0:19:44Me particularly, because people think, "Oh, he seems a bit aggressive."
0:19:44 > 0:19:47I'm not aggressive! I'm just passionate, you know.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50Are you genuinely just standing up against militant Islam,
0:19:50 > 0:19:52or are you standing up against Islam?
0:19:52 > 0:19:55Islam has failed to integrate into this nation.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57That is what the problem is.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00Black, white, Chinese, Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist -
0:20:00 > 0:20:02everybody gets on like a house on fire
0:20:02 > 0:20:03except for the Islamic community,
0:20:03 > 0:20:06because they do not want to integrate,
0:20:06 > 0:20:10they haven't integrated, and that is a fact. It's the truth!
0:20:10 > 0:20:11They admit that themselves.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14They live in their enclave. There are Muslim children in this town
0:20:14 > 0:20:17that live in Luton town, that live in Bury Park,
0:20:17 > 0:20:19and they do not speak to a non-Muslim.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23You want to live in this country side by side in peace and harmony,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26fine, great, but don't stand on our street corners
0:20:26 > 0:20:29calling for the implementation of Sharia Law,
0:20:29 > 0:20:31which is a backward, retarded,
0:20:31 > 0:20:35seventh-century dogma that wants to murder homosexuals
0:20:35 > 0:20:38and gay men and women, throw them from the cliffs.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41They want stoning of women. It is horrific!
0:20:41 > 0:20:44The EDL seem to think Muslims want to impose primitive rules
0:20:44 > 0:20:46and punishments on Britain,
0:20:46 > 0:20:50so I needed to find out if there was any truth in this.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53I've arranged to meet a guy who I used to work with at the airport,
0:20:53 > 0:20:56and he's completely in the know about Islam and Muslims.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58He's a real hive of knowledge,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01so I need to go and have a chat with him and ask him 1,000 questions.
0:21:04 > 0:21:09- Hey!- All right, how you doing?- How are you?!- Not bad, how you doing?
0:21:09 > 0:21:11- Thank you for seeing me.- That's OK.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13You're super in the know, so I just wondered
0:21:13 > 0:21:17if you could really dumb it down for me, tell me what Sharia Law is.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19Sharia law is a method of living in the world.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22That's what helps you to be a Muslim every day.
0:21:22 > 0:21:27For example, adultery is seen in Sharia Law
0:21:27 > 0:21:30and its penalty is given as something like stoning.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33And that's shocking, but it's almost fictional,
0:21:33 > 0:21:37because in order for the punishment to go through, right,
0:21:37 > 0:21:39one - people need to accuse you.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42two - you need to have four witnesses
0:21:42 > 0:21:46that don't just see a man on top of a woman, that see penetration.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49The point of that is that it shows you the punishments or
0:21:49 > 0:21:54the penalties for crimes are actually just huge deterrents.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57They are spiritual deterrents, if you think about it.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59Is that something that all Muslims want
0:21:59 > 0:22:01that live here, or is it just a myth?
0:22:01 > 0:22:07Well, Sharia Law, all Muslims want sharia, because personal...
0:22:07 > 0:22:10- Inside them.- Inside them, in our personal families,
0:22:10 > 0:22:12we have sharia here whether you like it or not.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16Every day you see somebody pray, that is a type of them acting out sharia.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19So we all have sharia within us, when you're talking about
0:22:19 > 0:22:22the legal system that governs certain countries,
0:22:22 > 0:22:27it doesn't apply here, because you can't just create your own community and say...
0:22:27 > 0:22:30- "We want Sharia Law!"- Exactly. "We're going to create Sharia Law
0:22:30 > 0:22:35"and this person's going to do this and then we're going to give them the punishment for that."
0:22:35 > 0:22:38It doesn't add up. We're not a vigilante system.
0:22:38 > 0:22:40You can't take the law into your own hands.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44If you live in a non-Muslim country, you have to respect that.
0:22:44 > 0:22:49My friend Omar's view of Islam and its laws is much more mainstream than the EDL's.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53So I wanted to find out which version typical
0:22:53 > 0:22:56white families from my old part of Luton believe.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59I'm off to go and meet a lad called Michael, typical Lutonian,
0:22:59 > 0:23:05just to hear his views, really. Does he hang about with Muslim lads?
0:23:05 > 0:23:09Is he familiar with Islam? Does he know anything about it?
0:23:09 > 0:23:13Just to see his views, just to see what him and his family think.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16Yeah, I think I should get quite a lot from it.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19I mean, there are issues in Luton.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23We always get bad press, the EDL boys have got a bad name.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27Do you guys feel that in Luton, as Lutonians?
0:23:27 > 0:23:28I try not to get involved,
0:23:28 > 0:23:31but I know where the EDL are coming from with their views.
0:23:31 > 0:23:36Some of the things they say, people will want to say them,
0:23:36 > 0:23:40but they're thinking of consequences and what's going to happen to them,
0:23:40 > 0:23:44so it's about time someone did stand up and say something.
0:23:44 > 0:23:48I ain't going to stand up and say that, I'll tell you that now.
0:23:48 > 0:23:50I keep things to myself,
0:23:50 > 0:23:54but I take my hat off to some of the things they're saying.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57- Have you guys ever spent any time there?- It feels like you're abroad.
0:23:57 > 0:24:01If you go to Bury Park in the early morning, it feels like you're in Spain.
0:24:01 > 0:24:06You've got bright lights, you've got music on. It's different. Every other area's quiet, peaceful.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09It's not somewhere I would choose to go and walked down,
0:24:09 > 0:24:11- do you know what I mean?- Yeah.
0:24:11 > 0:24:15Just keep myself to myself, keep away from their sort of thing.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18- Have you spent time there, Jade? - I'm too scared to go to Bury Park.
0:24:18 > 0:24:22Do you feel, because you're not Asian, and it is predominantly
0:24:22 > 0:24:25an Asian area, do you think that would make you feel out of sorts?
0:24:25 > 0:24:28Do you think there is cultural divides? What do you guys think?
0:24:28 > 0:24:33None of us could really tell you too much about their religion or what happens.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36I don't think anyone in the room could tell you that,
0:24:36 > 0:24:39we're not clued up about that sort of thing.
0:24:39 > 0:24:45I really wish I knew more about the Asian community, to be honest,
0:24:45 > 0:24:49I don't know enough about them. I'm embarrassed to say I don't.
0:24:49 > 0:24:51I'm pleased I went to see Michael and his family.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54I got quite a lot out of it. He was very honest.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57He was saying there are certain things that Kev says
0:24:57 > 0:24:59and the EDL say that he can sympathise with.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02He gets what they're saying.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04But, you know, on the other hand, he did say,
0:25:04 > 0:25:06"I don't know a lot about Muslims.
0:25:06 > 0:25:08"I know hardly anything about Islam."
0:25:08 > 0:25:11He was the first to say that. The family did go on to say
0:25:11 > 0:25:15perhaps it's worth trying to learn a bit more, and then I thought, ohh!
0:25:15 > 0:25:17That was a nice thing to hear, because I thought,
0:25:17 > 0:25:20maybe, if you were up for learning more and you went out
0:25:20 > 0:25:22and had a chat with Muslim lads,
0:25:22 > 0:25:24maybe you'd come to your own conclusion.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27I'm going back into Bury Park, but this time,
0:25:27 > 0:25:30I want to hear from moderate Muslims who live here
0:25:30 > 0:25:33and find out what they think about the town's extremist reputation
0:25:33 > 0:25:37and if there is any truth in what the EDL say about Islam.
0:25:37 > 0:25:42Where better place to start than Luton's oldest and largest mosque, the Central Mosque?
0:25:42 > 0:25:44This is my first time I'll have ever visited a mosque,
0:25:44 > 0:25:46so I'm really quite up for it.
0:25:46 > 0:25:48The guys have asked me to cover my head,
0:25:48 > 0:25:51so I've just put my scarf around, so I hope it looks OK.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54I hope they don't go, "What have you got on your head?"
0:25:59 > 0:26:02- After you.- Thank you, thank you very much.
0:26:04 > 0:26:09- This is the main prayer hall of the mosque.- Wow. My God.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12I've never been anywhere like this before. It's very pretty.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14It's very glam with all the lights and colour.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18If you have a look over there, you can see one of the names of God.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21That one, that particular one says "Ya Salamu" in Arabic.
0:26:21 > 0:26:23I feel like I've heard that word.
0:26:23 > 0:26:27Do sometimes Muslims say "salam" to each other?
0:26:27 > 0:26:29- That's right, when we greet each other.- Yeah.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32We say "salam" and that also means "peace be upon you".
0:26:32 > 0:26:36- It's a good reminder for this day and age.- Yeah.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39It's a reminder that if you do believe in God, you should be peaceful.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43There were some Muslim lads, weren't there, a handful of Muslim lads
0:26:43 > 0:26:49with posters and banners, when the soldiers were marching through.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51They couldn't have been Muslims,
0:26:51 > 0:26:54because they wouldn't have done that, is that right?
0:26:55 > 0:26:59- No, I would say...- Do you know what I mean? Would they...
0:26:59 > 0:27:02Because if they are going there to kick off and cause trouble,
0:27:02 > 0:27:04that makes them as bad as...
0:27:04 > 0:27:08You have different groups in Islam. We can only speak for ourself.
0:27:08 > 0:27:10OK, so would they be a different group?
0:27:10 > 0:27:13They are most likely a different group to us.
0:27:13 > 0:27:15Oh, I understand. So they wouldn't worship here?
0:27:15 > 0:27:19- No, they wouldn't.- We don't have radical worshippers in this mosque.
0:27:19 > 0:27:23- No. We have nice ones in this mosque.- Yes.- Wow. OK.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26'I wanted to find out more, so the men took the stairs to meet the girls.'
0:27:26 > 0:27:32- Hello, girls.- This is the women's area.- Hi! Oh! I'm with the girls.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35There's no place for terrorism in Islam. It's against Islam.
0:27:35 > 0:27:40If you kill one innocent person, you kill the whole of humanity, so I don't know where they...
0:27:40 > 0:27:43They just get lines from the Koran and they twist it
0:27:43 > 0:27:46and they make their own interpretation out of it,
0:27:46 > 0:27:50so they say, "Oh, jihad, I'm going to go on the train and commit jihad."
0:27:50 > 0:27:53That's not correct. Jihad is only on a battlefield.
0:27:53 > 0:27:569/11, no, that is totally against Islam,
0:27:56 > 0:27:59- because you have killed the whole of humanity.- To quote my cousin,
0:27:59 > 0:28:02she says once you become a terrorist, you are no longer a Muslim,
0:28:02 > 0:28:04because there's nothing in Islam about terrorism.
0:28:04 > 0:28:08Some people that maybe aren't pally with Muslims
0:28:08 > 0:28:11or aren't familiar with Islam look at one Muslim and think,
0:28:11 > 0:28:14"Right, that's how everything single Muslim is in the whole of Luton."
0:28:14 > 0:28:17Does it upset you that people think,
0:28:17 > 0:28:20"Oh, I've got the measure of you, I know what you're like"?
0:28:20 > 0:28:23You see one colour, and you think...
0:28:23 > 0:28:25- "Everyone's the same." - No, we're not the same.
0:28:25 > 0:28:28"They're all the same, they all think the same."
0:28:28 > 0:28:31And I think that is it, isn't it? Do you know the EDL? How you know about them?
0:28:31 > 0:28:35They've always threatened to come to Bury Park - we live in Bury Park -
0:28:35 > 0:28:38- to come and beat the people or something.- Are you scared of the EDL?
0:28:38 > 0:28:43- No.- No.- They're just a bunch of idiots, really.
0:28:43 > 0:28:46I think it's football hooligans who have been banned from going to
0:28:46 > 0:28:49matches and they've just thought of something else
0:28:49 > 0:28:51to hate for no reason.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54I think that's a shame, if people don't take the time to go
0:28:54 > 0:28:56and knock about with different people
0:28:56 > 0:29:00who aren't exactly the same as themselves, that's where issues...
0:29:00 > 0:29:02- Do you know what I mean?- Yeah.
0:29:02 > 0:29:04People are afraid of what they don't know,
0:29:04 > 0:29:09and they are too ignorant to actually go and do something about knowing.
0:29:09 > 0:29:12To me, it seems like quite a peaceful religion,
0:29:12 > 0:29:16which is why it's so frustrating to think that a few Muslims
0:29:16 > 0:29:20ruin it for the rest of the Muslims here in Luton.
0:29:20 > 0:29:21I feel completely overwhelmed.
0:29:21 > 0:29:23I feel like I've learnt loads today
0:29:23 > 0:29:27and I'm made up that I went to the Central Mosque.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30It's so different to everything that I'm used to in Luton.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33It's like being in a different town.
0:29:33 > 0:29:35It's like not being in my town.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37It's shown me how easy it is
0:29:37 > 0:29:40for different crowds to get things mixed up
0:29:40 > 0:29:43and to make assumptions and to say things
0:29:43 > 0:29:47when they're not sure that's even true,
0:29:47 > 0:29:50because it is so complex and it is so complicated.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53I'm starting to understand how things are said
0:29:53 > 0:29:55that maybe aren't accurate.
0:29:55 > 0:29:59The problem with Luton is, although the Central Mosque preaches peace,
0:29:59 > 0:30:02just down the road, it's a very different story.
0:30:08 > 0:30:09OK.
0:30:10 > 0:30:12Thank you.
0:30:14 > 0:30:18I mean, you know, it says here, "Democracy," and then, it's got
0:30:18 > 0:30:22like a sketch of a hand with blood pouring down it, which is quite out there, really.
0:30:22 > 0:30:26And, you know, some of the bullet points are quite extreme.
0:30:26 > 0:30:30You know, "Democracy destroys life. Democracy pollutes the mind."
0:30:30 > 0:30:35They're quite anti-government, quite anti-Britain, you know,
0:30:35 > 0:30:37I think, from this literature,
0:30:37 > 0:30:40they're trying to say the government are corrupting us
0:30:40 > 0:30:44and democracy's a bad thing and everything's awful at the minute.
0:30:44 > 0:30:47It's just so out there, like, "sex objects" -
0:30:47 > 0:30:50that's why people get raped, because of democracy. What?
0:30:50 > 0:30:52'Also on the same high street was Saiful Islam.
0:30:52 > 0:30:55'He used to be a member of Al-Muhajiroun,
0:30:55 > 0:30:59'a now-banned organisation responsible for terrorist atrocities
0:30:59 > 0:31:02'abroad and in the UK. I needed to talk to him.'
0:31:04 > 0:31:07- Are you happy to have a chat, whenever you're ready?- What it is...
0:31:07 > 0:31:10- If you speak to my colleague first, cos I...?- Which one? Sure, yeah.
0:31:10 > 0:31:14- Them guys there.- Which one? - Them two there.- These two?- Yeah.
0:31:14 > 0:31:18- OK. How long until you're free? - I've just got something to sort out. - Like an hour, half an hour?
0:31:18 > 0:31:22I'm not sure, but as soon as I finish, I'll come over.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24OK, thank you.
0:31:24 > 0:31:31- Hi.- Hi.- Saiful's asked me to ask when you're ready to chat.- We could do the interview over there.- Yeah.
0:31:31 > 0:31:35Um, do you think Saiful will chat as well? He said he's busy, but...
0:31:35 > 0:31:38If he's busy, he's busy, innnit. I can't say much about that.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41'I couldn't get Saiful, but maybe I could find out
0:31:41 > 0:31:45'from these two whether they were preaching extreme views.'
0:31:45 > 0:31:48- What's your name?- I'm Albu Farouk. - Albu Farouk.- Abu Abdullah.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51- Nice to meet you.- We do not handshake with opposite gender.
0:31:51 > 0:31:53- In Islam, we have regulations.- OK.
0:31:53 > 0:31:58So we're not going to break these regulations for this society's rules and customs, so obviously,
0:31:58 > 0:32:02we do not dishonour or degrade honour a woman in Islam.
0:32:02 > 0:32:05And, like in this society, woman is treated as a sex object
0:32:05 > 0:32:07and make them uncover and all of that,
0:32:07 > 0:32:11- which is contradictory to Islam altogether.- So, do you...?
0:32:11 > 0:32:14You're saying you think women in this country are degraded?
0:32:14 > 0:32:17Absolutely. The proof of it is your billboards, advertising, buses.
0:32:17 > 0:32:22In order to sell a Snickers bar, you need to strip a woman naked. Sell a car, strip a woman naked.
0:32:22 > 0:32:26- You know, we can see how women are humiliated at the moment.- Yeah.- Wow!
0:32:26 > 0:32:28- That's the reality. - What about fragrances,
0:32:28 > 0:32:31with half-naked men in just a pair of swimming trunks?
0:32:31 > 0:32:36- Do you shake men's hands? - It shows you are both oppressing the men and the women in this society.
0:32:36 > 0:32:40If you believe that I, as a Muslim, believe homosexuality is a sin, then I'm an extremist.
0:32:40 > 0:32:44If you believe that I, as a Muslim, don't believe in the idea of democracy
0:32:44 > 0:32:48or in freedom or secularism, indeed I am an extremist, if you perceive that.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50These are our Islamic core beliefs.
0:32:50 > 0:32:54Islam is the answer to all way... any problem that people are facing.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57Capitalism, your democracy, is a failure in this society.
0:32:57 > 0:33:01Allow me to explain it - that's why we come out to discuss and explain it.
0:33:01 > 0:33:05You look for alternatives, but don't know what. You vilified Islam
0:33:05 > 0:33:08to the level that that is the real solution which you cannot perceive.
0:33:08 > 0:33:11Let me ask you something. I'm not Al-Qaeda?
0:33:11 > 0:33:13I'm not with the camp of the Mujahedeen, OK?
0:33:13 > 0:33:17- You're not with Al-Muhajiroun? - Hang on, if I say to you
0:33:17 > 0:33:20I support or I agree with Al-Qaeda?
0:33:20 > 0:33:24if I say that, if I say that, yeah, would I be arrested?
0:33:24 > 0:33:27- Yes or no?- Are you with Al-Qaeda? - Because it's illegal!
0:33:27 > 0:33:30- You can't do that in this country. - Do you agree with Al-Qaeda?
0:33:30 > 0:33:32It's illegal, you can't do that, do you understand?
0:33:32 > 0:33:34- Cos Al-Qaeda?.. - Why is that? Hang on.
0:33:34 > 0:33:37- You need to understand something, yeah.- OK.
0:33:37 > 0:33:39You can easily point that question to the Muslim,
0:33:39 > 0:33:42but when the Muslim points it back to you, you can't handle it.
0:33:42 > 0:33:47- What do you mean? - When the Muslim says your soldiers have been committing atrocities.
0:33:47 > 0:33:49If you vote for the government sending the troops,
0:33:49 > 0:33:52if you pat your soldiers on the back, you're as guilty as them.
0:33:52 > 0:33:56You're edging them on, continuing telling them, motivating them.
0:33:56 > 0:33:59Muslims will see you motivating your troops to kill us! How dare you!
0:33:59 > 0:34:04- Those soldiers, terrorists, baby killers, butchers, they need to be brought home.- My God!
0:34:04 > 0:34:08- Those rapists need to be brought home.- Tell your butchers of Basra to come home.- Do you know what?
0:34:08 > 0:34:11- < WOMAN: Do you vote? - Tell baby killers to come home.- No.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14Islam is the way for revival. It is just a matter of time for us
0:34:14 > 0:34:16to pass that message out to the people
0:34:16 > 0:34:20and they will wake up and soon, you will find that the sleeping giants,
0:34:20 > 0:34:24which is the Muslim, they will awake and Islam will be dominant.
0:34:24 > 0:34:28- Saddam Hussein? - ..Muslim country, Iraq, Afghanistan and occupation, yes or no?
0:34:28 > 0:34:32- I don't know.- That...- I don't know enough...- You are a naive woman.
0:34:32 > 0:34:36- I'm not naive.- You said... - You are one naive women. - Hang on a second!- That's reality.
0:34:36 > 0:34:39'We are just opposite ends of the spectrum,'
0:34:39 > 0:34:42so that everything they say, and everything I say,
0:34:42 > 0:34:45we're never, ever going to agree and that scares me and makes me sad,
0:34:45 > 0:34:50because that makes me feel like we're always going to have issues in Luton
0:34:50 > 0:34:56and, you know, how is someone like me and someone like them
0:34:56 > 0:35:00ever going to live in harmony? It's never going to happen.
0:35:07 > 0:35:11I don't know if it's extreme people, themselves,
0:35:11 > 0:35:16go as far as you could go...
0:35:16 > 0:35:19you know, sort of terrorism and acts of violence.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22I don't know if they themselves would do it,
0:35:22 > 0:35:29but I suspect them kinds of people would...
0:35:29 > 0:35:33encourage others and applaud others
0:35:33 > 0:35:38that maybe did think about taking that route, you know, pushing that one step further
0:35:38 > 0:35:43and that's when terrorists start coming into the equation and bombs.
0:35:45 > 0:35:49I wanted to find out how influential radical preaching could be.
0:35:49 > 0:35:53I went back to the Central Mosque to speak to teacher Majib,
0:35:53 > 0:35:56who had first-hand experience
0:35:56 > 0:35:59of dealing with the extremist preachers of Bury Park.
0:35:59 > 0:36:03- How far do you think they would go? They seem pretty sort of driven. - The most I've heard is,
0:36:03 > 0:36:09"Go, we'll send you to Iraq to fight the American soldiers and stuff," but it's never happened.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13They wouldn't do it themselves, but would they encourage others to?
0:36:13 > 0:36:17They'd encourage others to do it, but they'd never do themselves, never.
0:36:17 > 0:36:19- That's interesting. - They're too afraid.- So...
0:36:19 > 0:36:23The thing is, when they say that, "There's a holy war out there and you should fight it,"
0:36:23 > 0:36:27- the question is, "Why don't you go?" They've got no answer. - I was just going to say that.
0:36:27 > 0:36:31It's interesting that they're happy to encourage everyone else
0:36:31 > 0:36:35- to go off and do it, but not happy to go themselves.- It's cowardly, like cowardish behaviour.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38But them, themselves, have every excuse to stay.
0:36:38 > 0:36:41At one point, I did say to one of them, "Look, you're speaking to me,"
0:36:41 > 0:36:45and I said to them, "Hold on, you go,
0:36:45 > 0:36:49- "you go to fight and I promise to do what you're doing."- What did he say?
0:36:49 > 0:36:52He goes, "No, brother, I've got a wife and kids at home."
0:36:52 > 0:36:55So it's all right for you to go, but they're not coming?
0:36:55 > 0:36:58'Majib is in no doubt that the message is very dangerous.'
0:36:58 > 0:37:04When they say messages, they say some key points that maybe, as a Muslim, people will think, "They're right."
0:37:04 > 0:37:08- Yeah.- You know, when they said, "Look, stop the war in Iraq,"
0:37:08 > 0:37:10it was as if they're the biggest voice saying that.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13So, obviously, as a Muslim, I don't want there to be
0:37:13 > 0:37:16- a war in Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd say hands up.- Yeah.
0:37:16 > 0:37:19But young kids seeing that on telly made them think,
0:37:19 > 0:37:22"Nobody else is talking. They must be right."
0:37:23 > 0:37:27It saddens me that young, vulnerable Lutonians are being groomed
0:37:27 > 0:37:30by the radicals and I'm keen to find out
0:37:30 > 0:37:33what kinds of person would be attracted to their message.
0:37:35 > 0:37:38I've arranged to go meet a guy called Mugsy. I'm on my way now.
0:37:38 > 0:37:41He is working in a group called Diverse FM,
0:37:41 > 0:37:46who are there, I think, to help kids who could maybe be radicalised or taken into naughty groups.
0:37:46 > 0:37:49'So yeah, really up for it.
0:37:49 > 0:37:54'This group is at the sharp end of helping troubled Lutonian youth,
0:37:54 > 0:37:57'including young Muslims susceptible to extremist views.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00'Mugsy told me about one of his students, Jabed,
0:38:00 > 0:38:04'who has strong unions about British troops abroad.'
0:38:04 > 0:38:08Do you believe, Jabed, that the war is a war on Islam?
0:38:08 > 0:38:12- Do you really believe that? - Yeah, I believe that.- You do? Wow.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15Countries like the USA, the UK and stuff like that,
0:38:15 > 0:38:19they are not letting any other country
0:38:19 > 0:38:22run the way the people of the country want the country to be run.
0:38:22 > 0:38:27- OK.- Instead, they're going there, they're taking over forcefully
0:38:27 > 0:38:31and they're putting their own puppets there to run the country.
0:38:31 > 0:38:37That upsets me that you think that, because I, obviously, can't talk on behalf of the government,
0:38:37 > 0:38:42but I can speak as a white non-Muslim that, um,
0:38:42 > 0:38:45me and many, many, many people I know that aren't Muslims
0:38:45 > 0:38:50would never want Muslims to feel like the war is on Islam.
0:38:50 > 0:38:54My personal view, I think, the war has got to be on terrorism and extremism.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59'His views sounded very similar to those
0:38:59 > 0:39:01'I'd heard on the streets of Bury Park -
0:39:01 > 0:39:04'the message from those ex-members of the Al-Muhajiroun or the AMs.
0:39:04 > 0:39:07'Jabed had found himself drawn to them.'
0:39:07 > 0:39:11Like, the AMs, I felt like close to them.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14I went and thought I'd try to become full-time with them.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17'Jabed's no longer with the AMs, but speaking to him,
0:39:17 > 0:39:20'it became clear the types of people this group target.'
0:39:20 > 0:39:23- My mum passed away when I was 14.- I'm sorry.
0:39:23 > 0:39:29And I've got my dad and I've got six older brothers, two older sisters.
0:39:29 > 0:39:32My elder sister and her two kids, she's living with us,
0:39:32 > 0:39:37- cos her husband's in prison at the moment.- Her husband's in prison?- Yes.
0:39:37 > 0:39:40- What's he in prison for?- Terrorism.
0:39:40 > 0:39:44- Wow! How long's he been inside for? - It's been about a year now.
0:39:44 > 0:39:48RAP: When will there be no enemy and we all be friends?
0:39:48 > 0:39:51When will the streets we walk be full of peace?
0:39:51 > 0:39:56Jabed could've been a prime candidate to head down the road of extremism,
0:39:56 > 0:40:01but Diverse intervened, offering him a new focus with his music.
0:40:01 > 0:40:05'Honest, I hope Jabed gets it together, because...'
0:40:05 > 0:40:13I can honestly, I can just see how he could...go one way or the other.
0:40:13 > 0:40:17And I'd be gutted... I'd be sad if it went the wrong way.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21I feel like Mugsy's spot on, I feel like he was the one
0:40:21 > 0:40:25who grabbed him off Bury Park and brought him into Diverse.
0:40:25 > 0:40:28Thank God we've got people like Mugsy.
0:40:31 > 0:40:35'Mugsy and youth worker Abdul offered to show me around their catchment area
0:40:35 > 0:40:40'and I was instantly reminded how important their work is.'
0:40:40 > 0:40:42This is Argyle Avenue.
0:40:42 > 0:40:47Argyle Avenue has been in the news, it's been in the press loads and loads and loads.
0:40:47 > 0:40:52- That's where the Stockholm bomber and his wife lived?- That's right, they lived on this road.
0:40:52 > 0:40:56- On this road? What one was it, do you know which house it was? - I think it was number 15.
0:40:56 > 0:41:00- That's right.- That would've been the home of the Stockholm bomber and his wife?- Yeah.
0:41:00 > 0:41:05'But the guys reassured me that people like the Stockholm bomber are a misguided few.'
0:41:05 > 0:41:10I think the only issue with Luton is we have got extreme groups.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13- Yes, but that's just a minority.- Yeah.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16They don't really represent the majority of the people in Luton.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19- I'm Stacey.- Nice to meet you. - Really nice to meet you.
0:41:19 > 0:41:22- Nice to meet you.- Pleasure. - So what made you come to this road?
0:41:22 > 0:41:25- Getting myself in trouble following Mugsy.- Great stuff.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28- But no, I haven't spent a great deal of time in Bury Park...- OK.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32- ..which is mad.- I think I've met you somewhere before.- Possibly.
0:41:32 > 0:41:35- Good chat-up line! > - Yeah.- Luton?- Luton?
0:41:35 > 0:41:39- Probably in a club, yeah.- Maybe. - LAUGHTER
0:41:39 > 0:41:42- Are you a Muslim lad?- I'm a Muslim. - What are you doing in a nightclub?
0:41:42 > 0:41:47- Do you know what, I was only joking with you.- Ah!- He knows it all.
0:41:47 > 0:41:49With it being a mosque the other side!
0:41:49 > 0:41:52"All I do is go to the mosque, I don't go to nightclubs and speak to girls."
0:41:52 > 0:41:56- What do you think of Luton so far? - Yes, what do you think?- Basically...
0:41:56 > 0:42:00I've got a call at the moment, I'm really busy, I'll call you back.
0:42:00 > 0:42:03- Are you on the phone to that boy... - Yeah.- ..two metres down the road?
0:42:03 > 0:42:07- Yeah.- Tell me about Luton. - I was born here. Brilliant!
0:42:07 > 0:42:11- Based here?- And I think it's the safest.- Yeah?- Yeah, really.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15- I'm being honest here.- Yeah. - I think Luton is the most like...
0:42:15 > 0:42:19Do you know what? You do get like a few boys in the alleyway smoking their spliff, whatever.
0:42:19 > 0:42:22- Yeah, yeah.- But that's normal! - MOBILE PHONE RINGS
0:42:22 > 0:42:26- But, um, at the end of the day... - Why have you got two phones?
0:42:26 > 0:42:29- Huh?- Why have...?- That's my mum's. - One's for girls, one for family.
0:42:29 > 0:42:33- Tell me about it. That's the one. - SHE LAUGHS
0:42:33 > 0:42:37- Do you have a boyfriend?- I don't. Do you have a girlfriend?- I don't.
0:42:37 > 0:42:41- Do you want to take my number and we could go out?- Yeah, take my number!- I'll take you...
0:42:41 > 0:42:44- Take me to, um... - My mum's looking out the window.
0:42:44 > 0:42:48- Will you be in trouble for speaking to a non-Muslim white girl? - Tell me about it.
0:42:48 > 0:42:53That's why you leave your number to him. When I see him later, I will take it off him.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59'The community vibe is so strong here and I love it,
0:42:59 > 0:43:01'but then, I hear something that reminds me
0:43:01 > 0:43:05'how diverse this part of my town is becoming.'
0:43:05 > 0:43:07CALL TO PRAYER
0:43:07 > 0:43:11- What's that noise?- That's the adhan. That's for the prayer time, the prayers coming in.
0:43:11 > 0:43:15- The third prayer of the day. - My God!- It's the Central Mosque.
0:43:15 > 0:43:20I have never, in the whole time I've lived here, never heard the call to prayer in Luton.
0:43:20 > 0:43:23That's another interesting thing, isn't it? I wonder how
0:43:23 > 0:43:27the old, white working class folk, I wonder how they feel about listening to the call to prayer.
0:43:27 > 0:43:31- No-one has actually complained. - No.- Actually, it's quite good.
0:43:31 > 0:43:36- There's a feeling that you're living like in a Muslim country in a way sort of thing.- Wow.
0:43:36 > 0:43:40That's a big statement, "It's like living in a Muslim country."
0:43:40 > 0:43:44- Do you feel that is like living in a Muslim country in Bury Park?- A bit.
0:43:44 > 0:43:47You've got all the shops and all the Muslims here. Sometimes,
0:43:47 > 0:43:50there are days that I won't see a white person in Bury Park.
0:43:50 > 0:43:53- You won't see a white person? - Yeah, in my day, sort of thing.
0:43:53 > 0:43:56'And just around the corner, I come face-to-face
0:43:56 > 0:44:02'with one of the sides of Islam that most upset people like the EDL.'
0:44:02 > 0:44:04I was walking down this road and met a couple of girls
0:44:04 > 0:44:08in full-on burqa. They were sweet and went, "Stacey, we watch all your programmes!
0:44:08 > 0:44:12"Can we have a picture?" They took their little burqas off
0:44:12 > 0:44:15and it was really sweet and they're coming to speak to us now!
0:44:15 > 0:44:18Nice to see you again! I'm made up I bumped into you,
0:44:18 > 0:44:22because I think there can sometimes be maybe a misconception,
0:44:22 > 0:44:26so it'd be nice to hear what you girls reckon,
0:44:26 > 0:44:29but yeah, we'll go and have a tea. Will we go this way?
0:44:31 > 0:44:37So, talk me through the niqab? Cos I'm obviously totally out of the loop niqab-wise.
0:44:37 > 0:44:40It's part of our religion. Girls aren't supposed to be mixing with boys.
0:44:40 > 0:44:45- OK.- And this is like...- Protection. - ..meant as a protection in a way.
0:44:45 > 0:44:49There are some maybe people in Luton and England,
0:44:49 > 0:44:52"Oh, you know, girls shouldn't wear niqabs or burqas,
0:44:52 > 0:44:56because we can't see their face, can't see their expressions.
0:44:56 > 0:44:58Can you sympathise with what they say?
0:44:58 > 0:45:03Normally, how they see girls in town, they just want it to stay like that, they are not really used to it,
0:45:03 > 0:45:08so I can get them in that case, but then again, it is our choice.
0:45:08 > 0:45:12Do you feel like, sometimes, people who aren't Muslim
0:45:12 > 0:45:15judge you without even talking to you?
0:45:15 > 0:45:18- They just like give you dirty looks. - Does it go that far?
0:45:18 > 0:45:22- Do they give you dirty looks?- Yes. Sometimes they even say stuff.
0:45:22 > 0:45:26When we were in Milton Keynes shopping and another girl was like,
0:45:26 > 0:45:30- "Oh, I don't want to touch her, she's Muslim."- No?!- Yeah.
0:45:30 > 0:45:34'I wanted to experience what living in Luton was like for these girls,
0:45:34 > 0:45:38'so, the next day, they agreed to help me see the town through their eyes.'
0:45:38 > 0:45:41Is there any room at the inn?
0:45:45 > 0:45:49Yeah, I can see like that. I look so different, don't I?!
0:45:51 > 0:45:54'We headed for the town centre.'
0:45:54 > 0:45:58This is my first ever outing in my niqab.
0:46:00 > 0:46:03- 'Oh, my God, I wonder how people are going to act towards me.- I know.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06'I'm quite excited to find out.
0:46:06 > 0:46:10'I better not get any lip, or else I'll be like, "What did you say?"'
0:46:10 > 0:46:14Oh, my gosh, they're looking back at us as well.
0:46:14 > 0:46:17I do feel so different in this, I feel like people...
0:46:17 > 0:46:20- Stare at you more.- They're kind of staring a little bit.
0:46:20 > 0:46:24- Oh, my God, my heart's pounding. - It's all right, don't be scared.
0:46:27 > 0:46:30- That man's just told me to take my mask off.- Yeah?
0:46:30 > 0:46:35- That man over there's just told me to take my mask off.- Oh?- Oh!
0:46:35 > 0:46:41- I would never, ever, ever dream of saying anything like that to anyone, like I genuinely wouldn't.- Yeah.
0:46:41 > 0:46:44Why do people think they can dictate what you wear?
0:46:44 > 0:46:47I mean, how does it make you feel when people say stuff like that?
0:46:47 > 0:46:51- I'm scared of them. - Oh, don't be scared!
0:46:51 > 0:46:54You'll get no lip when you're with me,
0:46:54 > 0:46:57I'll give 'em a knuckle sandwich. It's not good, though.
0:46:57 > 0:47:00It's a shame, it's a shame that he's acted like that.
0:47:00 > 0:47:02'My God. Do you know what?
0:47:02 > 0:47:05'And I'm not just saying this to be dramatic,
0:47:05 > 0:47:07'I actually felt really uncomfy.'
0:47:07 > 0:47:09The thing is, in Bury Park, I feel totally comfy.
0:47:09 > 0:47:13I even forgot I had it on at one point and I stepped out of Bury Park
0:47:13 > 0:47:16and I came down the town and automatically felt really different.
0:47:16 > 0:47:20I knew you'd get a few stares and people aren't evil and racist cos they stare,
0:47:20 > 0:47:24but I didn't think I'd get that kind of nonsense off people.
0:47:24 > 0:47:28"Take your mask off"? It probably would be easier, wouldn't it, to just stay in Bury Park!
0:47:28 > 0:47:34'I was keen to make one last attempt to get hold of the head of the EDL.'
0:47:34 > 0:47:37'When you have finished, hang up or press 1 to change your message.'
0:47:37 > 0:47:40- 'Then, finally, a break.' - TELEPHONE RINGS
0:47:40 > 0:47:45'Stephen has agreed to meet me in a town centre hotel.'
0:47:45 > 0:47:49You love Luton, you're really passionate about it. Do you feel like you're doing Luton proud?
0:47:49 > 0:47:53- I think, yeah...- Do you feel like the EDL is a good thing for Luton?
0:47:53 > 0:47:57I think it is, yeah, because before the EDL, all Luton was known as
0:47:57 > 0:47:59was as the hotbed of militant Islam
0:47:59 > 0:48:02and all these bombers, extremists and terrorist plans.
0:48:02 > 0:48:05Now it's known as the fight back against them.
0:48:05 > 0:48:07Do you feel like your voice is
0:48:07 > 0:48:10representative of white working-class folk?
0:48:10 > 0:48:13Do you think you speak on behalf of a great deal of Lutonians?
0:48:13 > 0:48:18We don't feel part of the fabric that makes this town any more,
0:48:18 > 0:48:19because we've been pushed out.
0:48:19 > 0:48:23I'll be the first, I say it all the time, we have to point out...
0:48:23 > 0:48:26- You have to be balanced. - There are some great Muslims, yeah.
0:48:26 > 0:48:29That's nice to hear, cos I've never heard you say that.
0:48:29 > 0:48:32- I say it in every interview...- I... - ..but they don't play it. You won't.
0:48:32 > 0:48:36No, but we're trying to get to speak to you, cos I do know you
0:48:36 > 0:48:38and I don't think you're this evil moron.
0:48:38 > 0:48:42- You're not an angel by any stretch of the imagination. - And that's what I always say.
0:48:42 > 0:48:45I'm not an angel, I don't claim to be sitting polishing my halo,
0:48:45 > 0:48:49I'm a normal lad who's from Luton and I love Luton
0:48:49 > 0:48:52and I want what's best for Luton and, I'm sorry,
0:48:52 > 0:48:55but the complete spread of Islamism across this town is not good for it.
0:48:55 > 0:49:00Muslims who live in Luton, if they want to live their life
0:49:00 > 0:49:04- by following Sharia Law, then that's their business and right...- No.
0:49:04 > 0:49:08..cos it's their religion. You can't dictate to everyone in Luton,
0:49:08 > 0:49:12- "You should live like this." - So we should allow them to start cutting off hands and limbs?
0:49:12 > 0:49:16- No, I'm not saying that!- So where do you stop, then? Sharia Law?
0:49:16 > 0:49:20No, it's not good for this country. I don't think we need Sharia Law in this country.
0:49:20 > 0:49:26- I'm not for Sharia Law.- What about Muslim women...?- But if they want to live like that, leave them to it.
0:49:26 > 0:49:30If they want Sharia Law, get on a plane to where they've come from and have Sharia Law.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33- What about the ones born here? - Well, why do they want Sharia Law?
0:49:33 > 0:49:36A lot of their parents come here to escape Sharia Law.
0:49:36 > 0:49:39'I've persuaded Stephen to walk through Luton with me.'
0:49:39 > 0:49:42Will I get my head kicked in knocking about with you in town?!
0:49:42 > 0:49:45- I'll get my own head kicked in.- Oh!
0:49:45 > 0:49:47How often do you walk about Luton?
0:49:47 > 0:49:50I walk into town every day. I just don't do it with my missus or kids.
0:49:50 > 0:49:53I haven't done it with my missus or kids for two years.
0:49:53 > 0:49:56I could be driving in my car and have cars full of Muslim young lads
0:49:56 > 0:50:00pulling up and trying to ram me off the road.
0:50:00 > 0:50:05And I've got 13 stitches just walking over there. It ain't been good.
0:50:05 > 0:50:08It hasn't been good for my wife and she disagrees with it.
0:50:08 > 0:50:12She doesn't agree with what the EDL stands for and neither do her family.
0:50:12 > 0:50:16- They certainly don't.- Crazy to think she doesn't agree with the EDL,
0:50:16 > 0:50:18but she's married to the leader of the EDL.
0:50:18 > 0:50:21I wasn't the leader of the EDL when she met me, you know.
0:50:21 > 0:50:25The police told her she must leave Luton for the foreseeable future,
0:50:25 > 0:50:29cos there'd be an immediate attempt on her life. Islam rules with fear and intimidation,
0:50:29 > 0:50:32so if we allow it to intimidate us, then, yeah, I'll stop the EDL
0:50:32 > 0:50:35and close the EDL down, then they get what they want, get a free run.
0:50:35 > 0:50:39- How do you feel about this lady? - It's wrong.
0:50:39 > 0:50:44- That is categorically wrong?- I don't feel anything towards her, she's just a young lady, but that's wrong.
0:50:44 > 0:50:47Imagine every single women wore that,
0:50:47 > 0:50:50like in Saudi? What would your day be like?
0:50:50 > 0:50:54There'd be no communication, no integration. It's just wrong.
0:50:54 > 0:50:58- The burqa and niqab's a tricky situation.- No, just wrong.- It is,
0:50:58 > 0:51:02- cos you have to let people dress how they want to dress.- So I could walk round with a balaclava?
0:51:02 > 0:51:07I'd happily, the same as in France, I would happily even ban balaclavas and burqas.
0:51:07 > 0:51:10Ban everyone from face coverings in public. If you're walking along here,
0:51:10 > 0:51:14you shouldn't be able to cover your face, for security issues.
0:51:14 > 0:51:18But because... Because I'm white and I'm a woman, and I'm not a Muslim.
0:51:18 > 0:51:23- They won't talk to you.- They won't talk to me.- Yeah, but that's how they feel, innit? Look, he stopped.
0:51:23 > 0:51:28- He stopped once he heard you say Muslim.- Are you all right?
0:51:28 > 0:51:29Do you want to speak to us?
0:51:32 > 0:51:36- No, I didn't say that, I said one Muslim.- Now he's having a go at you.
0:51:36 > 0:51:38One Muslim did refuse to speak to me.
0:51:38 > 0:51:42- As I said, don't talk about Islam. - Can I just say...? ..Hang on. No, hang on!
0:51:42 > 0:51:45He don't like you talking about Muslims. That's what he just heard.
0:51:45 > 0:51:51- Let's just talk like adults.- But the problem was you spoke about Muslims.
0:51:51 > 0:51:55- Do you agree with Sharia Law? - Yeah, 100%.- You agree 100%?
0:51:55 > 0:51:59- You agree in cutting off of hands? - Only if absolutely necessary.- OK.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02So you agree in older men sleeping with younger children,
0:52:02 > 0:52:06having sexual intercourse. Nine years old? 10 years old?
0:52:06 > 0:52:10That's the Sharia Law, bruv, 11 years old. That's Sharia Law.
0:52:10 > 0:52:13That's Sharia Law. If the woman is bleeding...
0:52:13 > 0:52:17No, if the woman's bleeding, she's 11, you can have sex with her.
0:52:17 > 0:52:22But is your goal in modern Britain to emulate the Prophet Muhammad?
0:52:22 > 0:52:25Precisely, there you go.
0:52:26 > 0:52:30I want peace, but we haven't got it, bruv! If all Muslims think like you
0:52:30 > 0:52:33and want Sharia Law, this is not going to work.
0:52:37 > 0:52:39You can be a nice bloke and agree.
0:52:39 > 0:52:44- When he wants Sharia Law, for me, that's the end of the conversation. - You can't close your ears!
0:52:44 > 0:52:47- You can't close your ears.- You can. - Where are you going to go?
0:52:47 > 0:52:50It's his belief, but that's never going to work.
0:52:50 > 0:52:53You'd walk away saying, "He was a nice, moderate Muslim."
0:52:53 > 0:52:54- He was!- He still wants Sharia Law!
0:52:54 > 0:52:58- He's not imposing it on anyone... - He will when there's enough of them!
0:53:01 > 0:53:03Why do I, bruv?
0:53:03 > 0:53:05Don't video him.
0:53:05 > 0:53:12- < WOMAN:- Are you coming back now? - I have, bruv. I don't need to read...
0:53:12 > 0:53:15Mate, anyone who cuts off people's hands, I disagree with.
0:53:15 > 0:53:18'Soon, several young men were following us
0:53:18 > 0:53:21'and I was beginning to feel on edge.'
0:53:21 > 0:53:24I'm not doing myself any favours walking round town with you.
0:53:24 > 0:53:27You just tell me if anyone's coming behind me.
0:53:27 > 0:53:32'I was keen to find out what the two young lads really thought of Stephen.'
0:53:32 > 0:53:35- You've got an issue with him, what is that issue?- We've got no issue.
0:53:35 > 0:53:38You can't... If someone does something wrong in the community,
0:53:38 > 0:53:42- you can't blame the whole community. - Yeah, and that's completely correct.
0:53:42 > 0:53:47- He can't turn around and say all Muslims are terrorists...- Yeah. - ..or extremists, blah, blah, blah.
0:53:47 > 0:53:50Bruv, you say Islam teaches extremist,
0:53:50 > 0:53:54Islam teaches this, Islam teaches that. Why don't you...?
0:53:54 > 0:53:57Me and you get into contact, I'll get you an English Koran,
0:53:57 > 0:54:02we'll check together and read through it and you tell me where it says Islam is extremist,
0:54:02 > 0:54:06Islam is this, Islam is that. Bruv, we're a religion of peace.
0:54:06 > 0:54:09A Christian saying fucked-up shit wouldn't be my brother!
0:54:09 > 0:54:13But still, if he's a believer, if he believes in the shahada, he's brother, a Muslim brother.
0:54:13 > 0:54:17'Tensions rise as more and more people want to have their say with Stephen.'
0:54:17 > 0:54:20I'm a pharmacist and also I'm a Muslim as well,
0:54:20 > 0:54:24a liberated woman, so what kind of opinions do you have about Islam?
0:54:24 > 0:54:29- I have no opinions against yourself, all right.- Right, OK.- I've never said anything against Muslims.
0:54:29 > 0:54:32- I have certain problems with certain things in Islam.- OK.
0:54:32 > 0:54:36I've a problem with Al-Muhajiroun, that no-one from Bury Park deals with them.
0:54:36 > 0:54:40- Muslims in general...- Muslims ain't extremists! I said Al-Muhajiroun!
0:54:40 > 0:54:43I have no knowledge about groups, they could be anybody!
0:54:43 > 0:54:46- Muslims actually denied Jesus. - How can you deny...?!
0:54:46 > 0:54:49No, they made him a lesser man. PEOPLE SHOUT
0:54:49 > 0:54:52- Hang on a second!- They did! They made him a lesser man.
0:54:52 > 0:54:55'It was clear it was going to take more than a walk through town
0:54:55 > 0:54:57'to bring the two sides together.'
0:54:57 > 0:55:01As Lutonians, you come into Luton, you start talking about this topic,
0:55:01 > 0:55:03every single person has a strong opinion
0:55:03 > 0:55:08and everyone feels passionate about what they're saying, so that's...
0:55:08 > 0:55:13It's just finding a way of people listening to other people.
0:55:13 > 0:55:16That's what you need to do.
0:55:16 > 0:55:19'Three weeks ago, my journey began in Bury Park,
0:55:19 > 0:55:23'wrestling with Islamic extremists. And since then, I've heard
0:55:23 > 0:55:27'many different opinions, from reasonable to radical.
0:55:27 > 0:55:32'Luton is divided, but I think there is a way we can start to overcome this.'
0:55:32 > 0:55:35If we knock about together, and even think different views,
0:55:35 > 0:55:38if you're willing to try and understand the other point of view,
0:55:38 > 0:55:41I think that's always important, especially in a town like Luton.
0:55:41 > 0:55:44We have got problems, there are issues.
0:55:44 > 0:55:48There are extremists in Luton, but it's a tiny, tiny minority.
0:55:48 > 0:55:51But talking about it and raising the subject
0:55:51 > 0:55:55and realising there's other sides than just yours is worth doing.
0:55:55 > 0:56:00We'll never, ever get anywhere or get closer to solving anything
0:56:00 > 0:56:04unless we all communicate, we all speak to one another
0:56:04 > 0:56:06and ignorance...
0:56:06 > 0:56:09Ignorance is what causes extremism.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12Ignorance is what causes
0:56:12 > 0:56:15so many problems that are here today in Luton.
0:56:35 > 0:56:39Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd