0:00:02 > 0:00:06'There are people who are so rabidly homophobic, and I just find that fascinating.'
0:00:06 > 0:00:10CONTAINS SOME SCENES WHICH SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND UPSETTING
0:00:10 > 0:00:13It's as if you met someone who was absolutely...
0:00:13 > 0:00:18spent all their life trying to get rid of red telephones.
0:00:18 > 0:00:20You'd go, "What? Wh-What..."
0:00:20 > 0:00:23It... You know... You just would not understand it.
0:00:24 > 0:00:28'Why would someone bother to attack a group of people
0:00:28 > 0:00:30'who mean and do them no harm?
0:00:30 > 0:00:34'This is a series about gay people,
0:00:34 > 0:00:37'and the trouble people have accepting them.'
0:00:37 > 0:00:40I'm good too. How do you do? 'Over the last two years,
0:00:40 > 0:00:45'when time allowed, I travelled to meet some of the most notorious homophobes on the planet'...
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Senor Deputado. Stephen Fry.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52..'to challenge their prejudice and to find out where their hatred comes from.'
0:00:52 > 0:00:56Gay people... Most of them are lying about their problems.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59You're really not making any sense, Deputy. You really aren't.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Homosexuality is fantastic. You should try it.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04I will arrest you. I will arrest you!
0:01:04 > 0:01:06But when your penis is terrorising someone -
0:01:06 > 0:01:09My penis isn't! My penis doesn't do that.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12'I also had a chance to meet some of the people
0:01:12 > 0:01:14'who are victims of this prejudice,
0:01:14 > 0:01:18'as well as those fighting against it.'
0:01:18 > 0:01:24I never feel to sleep with a woman, say, "Yack." I'm born a queen!
0:01:24 > 0:01:26SHE SPEAKS PORTUGUESE
0:01:31 > 0:01:35'Of course, this matters to me because I'm gay.
0:01:35 > 0:01:39'But homophobia impacts on all of us.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41'It diminishes our humanity,
0:01:41 > 0:01:44and you can find it all around the world.'
0:01:54 > 0:02:00Quite simply, this is about love, commitment and mutual respect.
0:02:03 > 0:02:09'It's extraordinary to think that, after 200,000 years on the planet,
0:02:09 > 0:02:13'humankind is still struggling with how some of us love.
0:02:15 > 0:02:17'Even here in Britain,
0:02:17 > 0:02:21'gay love and marriage still give rise to some very heated debate.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26'I've already visited parts of Africa
0:02:26 > 0:02:30'where the solution put forward about gay people is to kill us.
0:02:30 > 0:02:34'And I've been to America, where some think we can be cured.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40'In this film, I want to know about the future,
0:02:40 > 0:02:43'and what the countries that will be the powerhouses of tomorrow
0:02:43 > 0:02:48'have in mind for the next generation of gays.'
0:03:04 > 0:03:07I'm heading south to Brazil,
0:03:07 > 0:03:09a country that in just 25 years
0:03:09 > 0:03:13has gone from widespread discrimination against gays
0:03:13 > 0:03:17to full legal equality with its straight citizens.
0:03:19 > 0:03:24The city of Sao Paulo hosts the world's biggest Gay Pride parade.
0:03:30 > 0:03:34'Four million people, gay and straight,
0:03:34 > 0:03:38'joined in celebration of rights that were once unimaginable.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44'The future for the next generation of gay Brazilians
0:03:44 > 0:03:46'looks dazzlingly bright,
0:03:46 > 0:03:49'thanks to the likes of Joao Silverio Trevisan,
0:03:49 > 0:03:53'who was amongst the first to stand up and fight.'
0:03:53 > 0:03:53Imagine you are 20 years old,
0:03:53 > 0:03:56and I was to put you in a time machine and take you to this event.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03You would not believe it, would you?
0:04:04 > 0:04:06I could not believe. I mean, it makes me cry.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10When I stood on the float and I saw all the people...
0:04:10 > 0:04:13It makes me cry now. I cry. And they were jumping up and down...
0:04:13 > 0:04:15I always cry. And I see...
0:04:15 > 0:04:19It just makes me so proud and so happy.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23So happy. I'm very happy too. Yeah. I'm very, very happy.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27It's really beautiful. I fought all my life
0:04:27 > 0:04:29for my right of loving,
0:04:29 > 0:04:35and when I see these, I feel like part of each one. Yeah.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37It's fantastic. It's truly fantastic.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41You're a hero. You're a real hero, and I admire you so much.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44Me too. Me too, me too. So much.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50If there is anybody on the planet who hates pop music played loudly,
0:04:50 > 0:04:53people gathered together in damp, unpleasant conditions
0:04:53 > 0:04:56and being physically tactile, it's me.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59I would rather have my liver sucked out through my nose
0:04:59 > 0:05:01than go to Glastonbury, and an event like this
0:05:01 > 0:05:04is usually the kind of thing I would most hate.
0:05:04 > 0:05:08But it's not just my own gay pride that makes me love this.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12There is something quite remarkable, there's an atmosphere...
0:05:12 > 0:05:15I don't think a camera or a microphone can capture it,
0:05:15 > 0:05:20but I do think that the future lies in people coming together like this,
0:05:20 > 0:05:23not to protest but to celebrate.
0:05:26 > 0:05:32But the Pride parade conceals a darker side to gay life in Brazil.
0:05:34 > 0:05:40The sheer speed of progress here has given rise to an anti-gay backlash
0:05:40 > 0:05:44where a gay person is murdered every 36 hours.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51'Before the evening's parties begin,
0:05:51 > 0:05:54'I'm dropping in on Brazil's most glamorous drag queen,
0:05:54 > 0:05:56'Renata Peron...
0:05:58 > 0:06:02..'who's paid her share of the price of progress.'
0:06:04 > 0:06:09One day you were crossing the Praca Republica,
0:06:09 > 0:06:12and a terrible thing happened. Can you tell me about that?
0:06:12 > 0:06:14HE SPEAKS PORTUGUESE
0:06:52 > 0:06:56Many people would never go out alone again.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00They would retire into a small... like a snail into a shell.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04But you've done the opposite. You've come out like a butterfly.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36This is your answer to the violence and the homophobia
0:07:36 > 0:07:39that you were the victim of. Si!
0:07:44 > 0:07:46Right.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59Wow. Beautiful! HE LAUGHS
0:07:59 > 0:08:01HE APPLAUDS
0:08:09 > 0:08:12Oh, thank you! You're too kind.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15See, my trouble is, I'm too lazy to be a drag queen,
0:08:15 > 0:08:17as well as too ugly.
0:08:22 > 0:08:25THEY LAUGH STEPHEN CLAPS
0:08:25 > 0:08:29I've always loved drag queens. If you like surprising things,
0:08:29 > 0:08:33to some, it's that those who are the most femme,
0:08:33 > 0:08:36those who glam themselves up and are more than camp,
0:08:36 > 0:08:39they're actually feminine in their dress and their attire,
0:08:39 > 0:08:44um, are probably the most courageous of all the gay community.
0:08:44 > 0:08:49Historically, it was the drag queens who fought the police at Stonewall
0:08:49 > 0:08:52that began, kick-started really, the gay-liberation movement.
0:08:52 > 0:08:57It's, um, I suppose, the daily act of walking down the street in drag
0:08:57 > 0:09:00makes them often be at the very forefront
0:09:00 > 0:09:05of the strongest and most angry reactions against homophobia.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08Stephen? It's bound to happen. Are you ready? Pronto?
0:09:08 > 0:09:12OK. Let's go and do the final bit of zhuzh-ing.
0:09:12 > 0:09:14I'm coming, my darling.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16Right. Just do you up? Si, por favor.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19STEPHEN LAUGHS RENATA PROTESTS IN PORTUGUESE
0:09:19 > 0:09:22Oh! Whoo! Oh, my goodness. Is that for me?
0:09:22 > 0:09:26Si. Colado! Thank you. It goes with my Norwich-stroke-Brazil top.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31Oh, my God! You think? RENATA LAUGHS
0:09:31 > 0:09:34I look like Sideshow Bob from The Simpsons.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36Mind your heels.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39'After all its triumphs, the fight for gay rights
0:09:39 > 0:09:43'has once again stepped into the political arena,
0:09:43 > 0:09:47'and this time Brazil's children are at the centre of the debate.'
0:09:52 > 0:09:56'A fierce battle has broken out over a new law
0:09:56 > 0:10:00'which proposes to outlaw homophobia
0:10:00 > 0:10:04'and to educate teenagers about the damage it causes.'
0:10:04 > 0:10:09# Your own personal Jesus
0:10:11 > 0:10:13# Someone to hear your prayers...
0:10:13 > 0:10:17'I've come to Rio to meet Congressman Jair Bolsonaro
0:10:17 > 0:10:22'who's determined to block this law, and along with his supporters
0:10:22 > 0:10:24'in the religious and conservative right,
0:10:24 > 0:10:28'bring an end to the advances of the gay-rights movement.'
0:10:28 > 0:10:31# Someone to hear your prayers, someone who's there...
0:10:31 > 0:10:36'This at a time when anti-gay crime is on the rise in the city.'
0:10:38 > 0:10:42# Reach out and touch faith...
0:10:42 > 0:10:44'A year ago,
0:10:44 > 0:10:46'on the streets of this Rio suburb,
0:10:46 > 0:10:51'a 14-year-old boy called Alexandre Ivo was abducted by skinheads
0:10:51 > 0:10:55'as he returned home alone from a party.'
0:10:55 > 0:10:59# Reach out and touch faith #
0:11:01 > 0:11:06'What followed was a hate crime that shook the entire country,
0:11:06 > 0:11:10'and changed his mother's life forever.'
0:11:10 > 0:11:12SIRENS WAILING IN DISTANCE
0:11:12 > 0:11:14Angelica?
0:11:14 > 0:11:16Stephen.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18Prazer. Prazer. Prazer.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22Hey...
0:11:26 > 0:11:29SHE INHALES
0:11:30 > 0:11:34You can... You can smell him? He's still here?
0:12:06 > 0:12:11Alexandre was out with gay friends when the gang first spotted him.
0:12:11 > 0:12:16Angelica believes they targeted him simply because he looked gay.
0:12:44 > 0:12:51And... And then, one terrible night almost a year ago,
0:12:51 > 0:12:54he...he was taken?
0:12:54 > 0:12:57He was taken away?
0:14:33 > 0:14:34Oh!
0:14:34 > 0:14:36Yes.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39Oh, so young. So very young.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41HE SIGHS
0:14:42 > 0:14:48'The three men accused of murdering Alexandre were never prosecuted.
0:14:48 > 0:14:52'Had anti-homophobia laws been in place,
0:14:52 > 0:14:55'things may have been different.'
0:14:55 > 0:14:58What do you say to people like the politician...
0:14:58 > 0:15:02um, Jair Bolsonaro, you know?
0:15:02 > 0:15:06He thinks that gay people should shut up
0:15:06 > 0:15:11and he doesn't believe homophobic crime is a serious matter.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31Yes.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34Thank you for opening your heart
0:15:34 > 0:15:37and the life of your son and your home for us.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40It means a great deal to me. Thank you.
0:15:55 > 0:16:02'My last stop in Brazil is to meet Rio congressman Jair Bolsonaro,
0:16:02 > 0:16:06'the politician who is blocking the proposed anti-homophobia law
0:16:06 > 0:16:08'and education programme.'
0:16:08 > 0:16:11Senor Deputado. Stephen Fry. Si. Nice to meet you.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15'A number of right-wing Christian groups support him in this,
0:16:15 > 0:16:18'including some neo-Nazi groups.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20'Though it may be a struggle,
0:16:20 > 0:16:23'I'm determined to keep my cool with him
0:16:23 > 0:16:25'so I can try to get to the bottom
0:16:25 > 0:16:29'of why he feels so threatened by homosexuality.'
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Whoa! Fantastico!
0:16:32 > 0:16:34Wonderful. Lindo, si. Wonderful, yes.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38I'm sure you remember the case of Alexandre, who was killed.
0:16:38 > 0:16:43He was 14, 15 years old, and he was tortured.
0:16:43 > 0:16:47And the police and everybody involved in the case believes
0:16:47 > 0:16:50it was a case of a homophobic attack.
0:16:50 > 0:16:55Seems to me there is something deeply wrong in Brazilian society,
0:16:55 > 0:16:58that such hatred... Every other day, apparently,
0:16:58 > 0:17:01there's a homophobic killing in Brazil.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24Well...
0:17:59 > 0:18:01It's interesting you use the word "normal".
0:18:01 > 0:18:03I have a great interest in zoology.
0:18:03 > 0:18:08There are 480 species of animal that exhibit homosexual behaviour,
0:18:08 > 0:18:12but only one species of animal on Earth
0:18:12 > 0:18:16that exhibits homophobic behaviour. So which is normal?
0:18:24 > 0:18:26Well, I...
0:18:28 > 0:18:30If the child is happy.
0:18:30 > 0:18:35You see, it...it... The only reason they may be unhappy
0:18:35 > 0:18:38is because they know there's homophobia in society
0:18:38 > 0:18:42and therefore their child may be bullied.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45But if the world is not homophobic, then, why should a parent worry?
0:19:04 > 0:19:09I have never, ever wanted anybody to be gay who is not gay. Ever!
0:19:09 > 0:19:13I think that's the most absurd idea. I also happen to be English.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17I don't want people to be English. "Phobos" is the Greek for "fear".
0:19:17 > 0:19:21Homophobia is fear of gay people.
0:19:21 > 0:19:26I wondered how, in a society, why people should be afraid of gays.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32No. No.
0:19:32 > 0:19:34Fear...
0:19:57 > 0:20:00Yes! You should. You should.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02I agree. Absolutely.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05No! I should be invited.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07HE LAUGHS No. I should be invited.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11BOLSONARO LAUGHS MANIACALLY
0:20:13 > 0:20:15BOLSONARO'S LAUGHTER ECHOING
0:20:18 > 0:20:21'That must rank amongst the strangest
0:20:21 > 0:20:27'and most chilling encounters I've ever experienced.'
0:20:30 > 0:20:35'Bolsonaro is typical of homophobes I've met all over the world,
0:20:35 > 0:20:39'with their mantra that gays are out to take over society,
0:20:39 > 0:20:43'recruit children or abuse them.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46'Even in a progressive country like Brazil,
0:20:46 > 0:20:50'their lies create hysteria amongst the uneducated,
0:20:50 > 0:20:54'from which violence can grow
0:20:54 > 0:20:59'that can end in brutal attacks like the one that killed Alexandre Ivo.'
0:20:59 > 0:21:03One can clearly see that it WAS a homophobic crime,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06which makes the politician's shrug of the shoulders
0:21:06 > 0:21:08all the more appalling to me.
0:21:08 > 0:21:12Because, while it's true that there are always going to be murders,
0:21:12 > 0:21:15there are some sorts of murder that you can deal with.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19You can get rid of hate crimes, and you do it by education,
0:21:19 > 0:21:22by just showing people.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25It's quite simply much easier to be gay
0:21:25 > 0:21:30if you live in an area of a city that is full of educated people,
0:21:30 > 0:21:33because educated people aren't filled with hatred towards gay people.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36It's as simple as that. You only hate when you're ignorant
0:21:36 > 0:21:38and you're afraid.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41And ignorance and fear is fostered by a lot of things.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45Poverty is one. I'm afraid I'm going to have to come out and say,
0:21:45 > 0:21:47I think evangelical Christianity is another.
0:21:47 > 0:21:52I think fundamental religion, it's very much part of its agenda
0:21:52 > 0:21:57to encourage ignorance and a very narrow education
0:21:57 > 0:22:01which has often very unpleasant things to say about gay people.
0:22:01 > 0:22:06I hope, if these films do anything,
0:22:06 > 0:22:12it is, they reinforce the fact that behind every statistic
0:22:12 > 0:22:14there is a beating human heart.
0:22:18 > 0:22:22'While Brazil should certainly celebrate her progress,
0:22:22 > 0:22:25'she should also be vigilant.'
0:22:27 > 0:22:29'Because if history has taught us anything,
0:22:29 > 0:22:33'it's that progress can be reversed.'
0:22:40 > 0:22:45'Russia decriminalised homosexuality back in 1993,
0:22:45 > 0:22:47'at the end of the Soviet era.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51'But now it appears to be regressing.'
0:22:51 > 0:22:54'The government is becoming increasingly conservative,
0:22:54 > 0:22:57'while the Russian Orthodox Church
0:22:57 > 0:23:01'has become the most powerful institution in the country.
0:23:01 > 0:23:06'So it's no surprise that homophobia is rife.'
0:23:09 > 0:23:12THEY CHANT IN RUSSIAN
0:23:16 > 0:23:19Nationalist and religious extremists are thriving.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27And, in a recent poll, 50 percent of Russians
0:23:27 > 0:23:31said they feel disgusted by homosexuals.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37'Now even the law is beginning to target gays,
0:23:37 > 0:23:40'beginning here in St Petersburg.'
0:23:41 > 0:23:45Well, St Petersburg always used to have the reputation
0:23:45 > 0:23:49of being the most liberal and advanced city in Russia.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53Tchaikovsky, Diaghilev, were amongst its most famous citizens,
0:23:53 > 0:23:57both of whom were gay. And then, just a few years ago,
0:23:57 > 0:23:59a law was enacted
0:23:59 > 0:24:03which made it illegal to promote homosexuality to minors,
0:24:03 > 0:24:07which is an almost impossible thing to control as a law.
0:24:07 > 0:24:12Everybody agrees that forcing people under the age of consent
0:24:12 > 0:24:15to try and go one way sexually or another,
0:24:15 > 0:24:18or indeed to groom them for sexuality,
0:24:18 > 0:24:20is a completely separate and absolutely correct crime,
0:24:20 > 0:24:25but not to educate the young in the possibilities of sexuality,
0:24:25 > 0:24:29especially those growing up with a feeling they might be gay,
0:24:29 > 0:24:32is to store up terrible trouble.
0:24:32 > 0:24:34SIREN WAILING IN DISTANCE
0:24:44 > 0:24:48The man behind the new law is the deputy of St Petersburg,
0:24:48 > 0:24:51Vitaly Millinov.
0:24:54 > 0:24:59'He believes he can prevent a new generation of Russians
0:24:59 > 0:25:04'from becoming gay by banning so-called gay propaganda.
0:25:05 > 0:25:09'It's created an impossible situation for gay parents here,
0:25:09 > 0:25:14'who could now be accused of promoting their homosexuality to their own children.'
0:25:14 > 0:25:16It's just right here.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19Oh! Oh! Slippery.
0:25:19 > 0:25:23Russian winter. You always need to be careful.
0:25:23 > 0:25:27'Olga, a local activist, has arranged for me to meet
0:25:27 > 0:25:31'some of those living with the fallout from the law.'
0:25:32 > 0:25:34Hello. Hello. Hi.
0:25:34 > 0:25:38Whoa, nice and warm. I shall take my hat off.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42'Irena and Olga have been together for 12 years,
0:25:42 > 0:25:45'and each have one child from previous relationships,
0:25:45 > 0:25:48'20-year-old Daniel, and Christina,
0:25:48 > 0:25:52'who, at 16, is still considered a minor.'
0:25:53 > 0:25:55According to this new law,
0:25:55 > 0:25:58every day you are breaking the law
0:25:58 > 0:26:01by promoting homosexuality to Christina.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27Does it actually seriously worry you that the day may come
0:26:27 > 0:26:32when you as a family are threatened by this new law?
0:26:55 > 0:27:01'Living as children of gay parents has affected Daniel and Christina,
0:27:01 > 0:27:04'though not in the way some of you might expect.
0:27:04 > 0:27:08'They are both happy, and they are both straight.
0:27:08 > 0:27:11'So much for "gay propaganda".'
0:27:42 > 0:27:45STEPHEN LAUGHS Yes. It's absurd.
0:27:50 > 0:27:52'Absurd as it is,
0:27:52 > 0:27:56'the impact of this law shouldn't be underestimated.
0:27:56 > 0:28:01'One in every four gay teens here has attempted suicide,
0:28:01 > 0:28:06'yet it's now illegal to offer them information or support.'
0:28:08 > 0:28:11'I'm dropping in on a group called Coming Out,
0:28:11 > 0:28:13'which was set up to do just that.'
0:28:13 > 0:28:15Aha!
0:28:15 > 0:28:18'But now its days could be numbered.'
0:28:18 > 0:28:20Hello, everybody. Hi! Good evening.
0:28:20 > 0:28:25Hello, Olga. I would like you to meet Daria and Maxim.
0:28:25 > 0:28:28Daria, hello. Max. Maxim, hello.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32Do you find life difficult at your age, being gay?
0:28:32 > 0:28:36Have you had a bad experience of it, each of you?
0:29:52 > 0:29:56Did you try and ask for the police to catch these people?
0:29:56 > 0:30:00Were the police interested, or were they just as homophobic,
0:30:00 > 0:30:02in a sense, as the gang?
0:30:18 > 0:30:22I just wondered if you were, in a sense, ashamed of your country,
0:30:22 > 0:30:25if you have a leader who talks about people like you
0:30:25 > 0:30:28as if you were freaks and have no rights,
0:30:28 > 0:30:30um, in the 21st century.
0:30:30 > 0:30:33Does this make you angry and ashamed?
0:31:05 > 0:31:09'I'm sure there isn't a gay person in the world
0:31:09 > 0:31:12'who doesn't know what it feels like to be threatened
0:31:12 > 0:31:15'because of your sexuality, but it makes my blood boil
0:31:15 > 0:31:19'to think that, in a modern city like St Petersburg,
0:31:19 > 0:31:22'the police will do nothing to protect you -
0:31:22 > 0:31:27'while Deputy Millinov, who's also training to be a priest,
0:31:27 > 0:31:29'sanctions their behaviour.'
0:31:29 > 0:31:32It makes me respect Daria and Maxim and other kids like that
0:31:32 > 0:31:36for their bravery and their courage in coming out
0:31:36 > 0:31:38and helping others come out,
0:31:38 > 0:31:42because they live in perpetual fear of getting beaten up,
0:31:42 > 0:31:45of getting physically threatened.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48It's a real fear, and it's one that's endorsed by politicians.
0:31:48 > 0:31:53It's just very, very sad that such a beautiful and extraordinary culture
0:31:53 > 0:31:58should be in the hands of that mixture of nationalists
0:31:58 > 0:32:00whose knuckles graze the ground
0:32:00 > 0:32:05and hypocritical priests who dare to presume to tell the world how to act
0:32:05 > 0:32:08on the basis of what? No extra knowledge, no extra insight,
0:32:08 > 0:32:11just, um, authority that they take on themselves.
0:32:16 > 0:32:20'I've just learned that Millinov is willing to meet me,
0:32:20 > 0:32:24'maybe flushed by the news that his anti-gay propaganda law
0:32:24 > 0:32:26'is about to be rolled out across all Russia,
0:32:26 > 0:32:29'a country I happen to be rather famous in.'
0:32:29 > 0:32:30Hello!
0:32:30 > 0:32:32'And, perhaps sensing an almighty row,
0:32:32 > 0:32:35'the media is out in force.'
0:32:35 > 0:32:39I'm very happy to talk to you, but after I've spoken to Deputy Millinov, if you don't mind.
0:32:39 > 0:32:42Are you all right there? I have an appointment,
0:32:42 > 0:32:45and I don't want to keep him waiting.
0:32:45 > 0:32:49That's really not the most convenient time, but I'm happy to.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52Look at Putin, look at Dobby, the house elf,
0:32:52 > 0:32:54and remember that's all he is. He's a little house elf.
0:32:54 > 0:32:56Wish me luck! Thank you.
0:32:59 > 0:33:05Hello! Now, you mustn't make me late for Deputy Millinov.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08I'm following... Who am I following? Through here?
0:33:10 > 0:33:13Hello. Hello.
0:33:13 > 0:33:15Yeah. And through here?
0:33:15 > 0:33:19Deputy Millinov. Good day. Very good to see you.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22Thank you for giving me your time. I wondered, Deputy,
0:33:22 > 0:33:26if the first thing you could do is just explain to me,
0:33:26 > 0:33:30because these things get complicated when people report them
0:33:30 > 0:33:33and then report them again, exactly what it is
0:33:33 > 0:33:36that you have made a law here in St Petersburg.
0:33:36 > 0:33:40Wh-What is now illegal that used to be legal?
0:33:40 > 0:33:44What is illegal is entering uncontrolled public statement
0:33:44 > 0:33:49forming the incorrect impression about social equality,
0:33:49 > 0:33:53all for single, of same-sex and traditional families.
0:33:53 > 0:33:58We also can't speak about some historical figures.
0:33:58 > 0:34:00So you're not allowed to say that, say,
0:34:00 > 0:34:04Tchaikovsky's sexuality was anything to do with his talent?
0:34:04 > 0:34:06That would be breaking the law? No.
0:34:06 > 0:34:10Even if the fact that Tchaikovsky was unhappy about being gay,
0:34:10 > 0:34:14and it gave him the conflict that is in his music?
0:34:14 > 0:34:16It's a crime to tell kids
0:34:16 > 0:34:21that only this way of living made him so talented.
0:34:21 > 0:34:24Nobody would say that. But what they might say, Deputy,
0:34:24 > 0:34:28they might say is, "Look, you're a 15, 16 year old."
0:34:28 > 0:34:30"You're being bullied. But don't worry."
0:34:30 > 0:34:34"There were some great men who achieved great things
0:34:34 > 0:34:36who had the same sexuality as you."
0:34:36 > 0:34:42We would be quite unhappy, in case some inadequate individual
0:34:42 > 0:34:44would invade kindergarten,
0:34:44 > 0:34:48trying to explain to minors
0:34:48 > 0:34:51that they should identify their sexual identity.
0:34:51 > 0:34:54They don't invade kindergartens
0:34:54 > 0:34:57and tell children to have their sexual identity.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01That is absolute nonsense. You're inventing a ridiculous enemy
0:35:01 > 0:35:05to get support, so that ignorant people will imagine
0:35:05 > 0:35:08there is this terrible threat to children.
0:35:08 > 0:35:13The real threat to children is, as it always was, ignorance, lies.
0:35:13 > 0:35:16Because they will grow up to find out they've been lied to,
0:35:16 > 0:35:18and they won't thank you for it. I spoke to a girl yesterday.
0:35:18 > 0:35:23They tried to rape her, to "cure" her of her homosexuality.
0:35:23 > 0:35:26She goes to the police. As soon as they find she's a lesbian -
0:35:26 > 0:35:29"Go away." The police don't respect...
0:35:29 > 0:35:32It's a fairytale. It's a fairytale. Oh, she was lying, was she?
0:35:32 > 0:35:37Gay people, most of them are lying about their problems, because...
0:35:37 > 0:35:40Wow! ..most of them would like to be...
0:35:40 > 0:35:43HE LAUGHS ..to be favoured and famous,
0:35:43 > 0:35:48because they are victims of Russian medieval behaviour.
0:35:48 > 0:35:51You're living in a fantasy world.
0:35:51 > 0:35:53The problem is that she became lesbian,
0:35:53 > 0:35:58not because her, er, her... um, genetic defect.
0:35:58 > 0:36:02Not because her mutation. You really ought to stop,
0:36:02 > 0:36:04because you're making a great fool of yourself on camera.
0:36:04 > 0:36:07This is going to be shown around the world,
0:36:07 > 0:36:09and if people hear you speaking like this,
0:36:09 > 0:36:11they're going to think so little of Russia.
0:36:11 > 0:36:15They'll think, "Is this man allowed to use the street and the telephone,
0:36:15 > 0:36:20let alone be a politician?" These values that you proclaim as modern
0:36:20 > 0:36:23and tolerant, is the values that were created
0:36:23 > 0:36:27from the first hour of having this world,
0:36:27 > 0:36:31when the most talented angel felled,
0:36:31 > 0:36:35because he thought that he was greater than God.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38This is quite... You're really not making any sense, Deputy.
0:36:38 > 0:36:40You really aren't. You're half a politician,
0:36:40 > 0:36:43half a semi-educated religious person.
0:36:43 > 0:36:47Whom do you represent? I'm not here to attack Russia. I love Russia,
0:36:47 > 0:36:50and it's better than you are. In your generation... Yes?
0:36:50 > 0:36:53..the number of homosexual people were much less.
0:36:53 > 0:36:56A number? How do you know this?
0:36:56 > 0:36:59Because I know that... Tell me how you know it.
0:36:59 > 0:37:01Scientific figures. Published by whom?
0:37:01 > 0:37:04Published by scientists. But name them!
0:37:04 > 0:37:07Where will I find these figures? I'm not going on and on and on
0:37:07 > 0:37:10about the dreadful things you've said. Say what you like,
0:37:10 > 0:37:13but don't make it a law that causes people to commit suicide.
0:37:13 > 0:37:16You have more young Russians killing themselves
0:37:16 > 0:37:20of this land of - Because... Oh, the Liberals make them do it?
0:37:20 > 0:37:22Yes. I just don't know how you sleep at night.
0:37:22 > 0:37:24I can sleep after I pray.
0:37:24 > 0:37:28Anyway, I have to go and speak to these nice people out here.
0:37:28 > 0:37:31'I fear I've failed to sway Millinov,
0:37:31 > 0:37:34'but it seems a shame to waste the media attention
0:37:34 > 0:37:37'when others out there might see sense on this issue.'
0:37:37 > 0:37:40I think everything should just calm down about this.
0:37:40 > 0:37:45It's not a big issue. All it's about is tolerance and acceptance.
0:37:45 > 0:37:48And it may be that most Russians, if asked in a poll,
0:37:48 > 0:37:52would say they disapproved of homosexuality,
0:37:52 > 0:37:55they didn't think it was traditional Russian - well, fine.
0:37:55 > 0:37:58But there are so many other things for the world to worry about!
0:37:58 > 0:38:01Concentrating on making gay people a kind of scapegoat,
0:38:01 > 0:38:06like the Jews were in the 1930s, seems to me a very dangerous sign.
0:38:06 > 0:38:10I do wish every lonely teenager out there,
0:38:10 > 0:38:12I wish them all the love in the world,
0:38:12 > 0:38:14because it's the richer...
0:38:14 > 0:38:18the group of young people who are unusual you have in a country,
0:38:18 > 0:38:22then, the greater the culture. So, thank you all very much.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24Sorry. Bye-bye. Thank you.
0:38:28 > 0:38:31It was like trying to nail a jelly to the wall, to be honest.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34just to get him to express his point of view.
0:38:34 > 0:38:36Maybe he felt the same about me.
0:38:36 > 0:38:39It's clear he doesn't like anything that he considers liberal.
0:38:39 > 0:38:41It's the biggest insult in the world.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44He didn't understand my point of view.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47It might be arrogant of me to say so, but I think I understood his,
0:38:47 > 0:38:50um, but just didn't feel it was a point of view
0:38:50 > 0:38:52that could be, should be, enshrined into statute,
0:38:52 > 0:38:55not try to interfere with the traditions of...
0:38:55 > 0:38:59That's the word you come across all the time. "Tradition".
0:38:59 > 0:39:03It's just...what? The tradition is torture, inquisition,
0:39:03 > 0:39:07um, illiteracy, disease...
0:39:07 > 0:39:10Those are traditions, if you want to go back 400 years.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14The other tradition is progress, is trying to get things right,
0:39:14 > 0:39:17slowly, painfully, often making mistakes,
0:39:17 > 0:39:20but with the best will that you can muster.
0:39:20 > 0:39:23SIREN WAILING IN DISTANCE
0:39:24 > 0:39:28Some of the mistakes that us Brits have made in the name of progress
0:39:28 > 0:39:31can take centuries can undo.
0:39:40 > 0:39:44'India is on its way to becoming a global superpower,
0:39:44 > 0:39:47'and is shaking off the last vestiges
0:39:47 > 0:39:50'of 200 years of British rule.'
0:39:53 > 0:39:55HORNS BLARE
0:39:55 > 0:39:59'It's recently overturned the Victorian law
0:39:59 > 0:40:01'that criminalised homosexuality,
0:40:01 > 0:40:04'and now, embracing its Hindu traditions,
0:40:04 > 0:40:10'is forging its own way forward with respect to gay rights.'
0:40:10 > 0:40:12I've come to India because, around the world,
0:40:12 > 0:40:16the experience of being gay can be looked at in tyrannical countries,
0:40:16 > 0:40:20in democracies, in countries that are going through transition.
0:40:20 > 0:40:24But India is the largest democracy in the world,
0:40:24 > 0:40:28and it's so notable for its incredible insistence on family.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32I wonder how much gay life is... even exists here,
0:40:32 > 0:40:34because the culture is so different.
0:40:38 > 0:40:42'I've been invited to meet the Iyer family,
0:40:42 > 0:40:44'whose 33-year-old son Harish
0:40:44 > 0:40:48'is one of the first to speak openly about being gay in India.'
0:40:48 > 0:40:50Hello!
0:40:50 > 0:40:52How are you? Nice to see you.
0:40:54 > 0:40:57Nice to meet you. He is my father, and that's my professor.
0:40:57 > 0:40:59Oh, hello! Hello!
0:40:59 > 0:41:02And this is my grandmum, and this is my mother.
0:41:02 > 0:41:05Pleased to meet you. Hello. Lovely to meet you.
0:41:05 > 0:41:09Gay men usually end up living with their families,
0:41:09 > 0:41:12because in Indian culture, you end up looking after your parents.
0:41:12 > 0:41:16Does that make it difficult for you to have a relationship? Can you bring a partner home?
0:41:16 > 0:41:21Um, now I can. My grandmum is pretty conservative, though.
0:41:21 > 0:41:23She was OK with me getting a partner home,
0:41:23 > 0:41:27but she wanted the partner to not be a Christian, to not be a Muslim,
0:41:27 > 0:41:31to be a Brahmin... Right. So you're high caste.
0:41:31 > 0:41:33So, yeah. It's absolutely fine for her.
0:41:33 > 0:41:36It didn't really matter to her whether it was a boy or a girl.
0:41:36 > 0:41:38That's very, very interesting.
0:41:39 > 0:41:43Can you remember when Harish told you that he was gay?
0:41:43 > 0:41:45Yeah. A little bit it was a shock.
0:41:45 > 0:41:48He is a family man as such. He loves family.
0:41:48 > 0:41:51He loves people around him. In fact he wanted to get married
0:41:51 > 0:41:54and have children. He is very fond of children.
0:41:54 > 0:41:56So that made me a bit sad.
0:41:56 > 0:42:00How are you with your neighbours and everyone else? Do they...
0:42:00 > 0:42:04It's like I don't go broadcasting that my son is gay.
0:42:04 > 0:42:06But when they ask me... When the son goes broadcasting...
0:42:06 > 0:42:10THEY LAUGH Literally broadcasting, on TV.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13Your neighbours must know, you think?
0:42:13 > 0:42:15But they just don't talk about it. They don't.
0:42:15 > 0:42:20To me they haven't spoken so far. Yeah. But someone ought to!
0:42:20 > 0:42:23And you're comfortable with your son's...
0:42:23 > 0:42:26HE SPEAKS ACCENTED ENGLISH
0:42:27 > 0:42:32That's true. The most important thing, you would think, like a parent, is for him to be happy.
0:42:32 > 0:42:34You want him to be happy, yes. Yeah.
0:42:34 > 0:42:37And that's a thing that people have in India.
0:42:37 > 0:42:41"In the end, he's happy this way." My mother accepts.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44My father, he's not accepting per se,
0:42:44 > 0:42:46but he doesn't mind my sexuality,
0:42:46 > 0:42:52so I feel both, in a way, is very important.
0:42:59 > 0:43:02Family is absolutely central to the nature of India,
0:43:02 > 0:43:05and the identity of it as a country.
0:43:05 > 0:43:07Everything is expressible through the family
0:43:07 > 0:43:10and understandable only through understanding the family.
0:43:10 > 0:43:12So to see a gay man living with his family,
0:43:12 > 0:43:16not having been rejected by them, not having been shown the door,
0:43:16 > 0:43:19but being accepted, is really impressive,
0:43:19 > 0:43:21and I think it shows that everything's come a long way.
0:43:21 > 0:43:24It's rather terrific.
0:43:36 > 0:43:39You can see the remnants of the old Raj still,
0:43:39 > 0:43:41even in a city like Bombay,
0:43:41 > 0:43:45and, in fact, the sexuality laws of India
0:43:45 > 0:43:49were also dominated by the Raj, right up until 2009
0:43:49 > 0:43:52when the co-... That's rather bizarre.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54I think I've just seen a... That is a rainbow flag.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57I don't know if it means the same here.
0:43:57 > 0:44:00It can't be. It says D'kloset.
0:44:00 > 0:44:02Hang on.
0:44:06 > 0:44:08Hi! Hello! Hi. Are you a gay shop?
0:44:08 > 0:44:12Yes. Oh, fantastic! I'm Stephen. I'm Inder.
0:44:12 > 0:44:14Hello. Hi. How nice to meet you!
0:44:14 > 0:44:17It's like Soho in London. Yes. It's like London.
0:44:17 > 0:44:20That's fantastic. Are you successful?
0:44:20 > 0:44:23Yes, yes. Have a look around. I will do! Thank you!
0:44:23 > 0:44:26Oh, yes, all the really good gay stuff.
0:44:26 > 0:44:29Are you here as a customer? Yeah. Are you gay, then?
0:44:29 > 0:44:33Yes, I'm queer. And just girls? Are you a lesbian, or...
0:44:33 > 0:44:36I'm bisexual, but I have a partner right now.
0:44:36 > 0:44:39A male partner or a female partner? A female partner. Right.
0:44:40 > 0:44:42In some sense it does feel very alien,
0:44:42 > 0:44:46this concept of identifying as for my sexuality.
0:44:46 > 0:44:48Our culture, we have a lot of stress on marriage. Yes.
0:44:48 > 0:44:52And, er, men can afford to not get married,
0:44:52 > 0:44:56or, you know, somehow the stress on marriage is slightly less
0:44:56 > 0:45:01or not entirely, but on women the stress for marriage is a lot.
0:45:01 > 0:45:04Women can't really speak about their sexuality as openly,
0:45:04 > 0:45:07so as a woman, having to not only say that I'm bisexual,
0:45:07 > 0:45:09queer as well as bisexual,
0:45:09 > 0:45:13means in some sense I'm implying that I have these desires,
0:45:13 > 0:45:17and speaking about desire itself in India is a little...you know?
0:45:17 > 0:45:20And yet the weird thing is, it was the British
0:45:20 > 0:45:23who brought in the law that said being gay was a crime.
0:45:23 > 0:45:26They didn't use the word "gay". They used "unnatural", "buggery",
0:45:26 > 0:45:29or whatever word they used, "sodomy" or something.
0:45:29 > 0:45:34So the idea that it's not natural to India was never put into laws
0:45:34 > 0:45:37before the British, before the Raj. Actually, India has a culture,
0:45:37 > 0:45:41I mean, for people who actually study it, which was very inclusive.
0:45:41 > 0:45:44The Kama Sutra speaks about gay sex as well,
0:45:44 > 0:45:46but people don't want to really see that. It's very funny,
0:45:46 > 0:45:50because they don't realise they are following the British in some sense.
0:45:50 > 0:45:53Just before you leave, I want to give you a thank-you
0:45:53 > 0:45:56for dropping into my store. You look very nice in this.
0:45:56 > 0:45:58Thank you! You're so kind!
0:45:58 > 0:46:01It's just the right size, I have to confess.
0:46:01 > 0:46:05There you are. I'll give you a gay hug. A friendly hug.
0:46:05 > 0:46:07Thank you very much indeed.
0:46:16 > 0:46:20'While Mumbai's fledgling gay culture shows promise,
0:46:20 > 0:46:25'part of the LGBT community has thrived here for centuries.
0:46:30 > 0:46:36The Hijras are India's ancient male- to-female transgender community.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40They were once celebrated in Indian society,
0:46:40 > 0:46:43and believed to have a connection with the gods.
0:46:43 > 0:46:49Some even held prominent positions in royal households and government.
0:46:49 > 0:46:54But then the British arrived and ostracised them.
0:46:54 > 0:46:57Today the Hijras live in slums,
0:46:57 > 0:47:00where many scrape a living in sex work
0:47:00 > 0:47:03and have been hit hard by the AIDS virus.
0:47:03 > 0:47:06'But accessing proper health care has been difficult,
0:47:06 > 0:47:12'because the government is only beginning to recognise their gender identity.
0:47:12 > 0:47:15'Shunned by society, they've relied on each other,
0:47:15 > 0:47:18'and I've been invited to meet Gauri,
0:47:18 > 0:47:21'who's opened her home as a respite centre.'
0:47:21 > 0:47:23Hello!
0:47:23 > 0:47:25You must be Gauri.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28Oh, is that for me? Oh, that is for a welcome.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31It is very traditional to welcome. How lovely!
0:47:31 > 0:47:33So, you're the guest for my house,
0:47:33 > 0:47:38so, please, I just want to...gather. Please come. Wonderful. Thank you.
0:47:38 > 0:47:41Thank you.
0:47:42 > 0:47:44Oh, this is gorgeous!
0:47:46 > 0:47:51So, this is our community centre, where we work with Hijras.
0:47:51 > 0:47:53They can stay for three, four days over here,
0:47:53 > 0:47:56and once they get OK, they can go back to the place.
0:47:56 > 0:47:59I understand a particular problem with the Hijras
0:47:59 > 0:48:04is that they are now more rejected than they have ever been,
0:48:04 > 0:48:07partly because of the high infection rates.
0:48:07 > 0:48:10I've read that it's as much as 49 percent.
0:48:10 > 0:48:14Yes, it's 49 percent. Amazing! But there's nothing you can do
0:48:14 > 0:48:16about the fact that society has changed so much
0:48:16 > 0:48:20since the early days, the very early days of Hijras,
0:48:20 > 0:48:23which was much more open and frank about sex, joyful about sex.
0:48:23 > 0:48:27I totally agree with you, because what happened when the British came
0:48:27 > 0:48:30and didn't want it, because, see...
0:48:30 > 0:48:32SHE CONTINUES IN ACCENTED ENGLISH
0:48:33 > 0:48:36But I say it is natural!
0:48:36 > 0:48:39I never feel to sleep with a woman, say, "Yack."
0:48:39 > 0:48:42I'm born a queen.
0:48:42 > 0:48:45I'm born a Hijra. I love to be what I am,
0:48:45 > 0:48:49and who the hell to God will decide, "This is final."
0:48:49 > 0:48:52So you set your heart on actually having the surgery
0:48:52 > 0:48:57to...to complete gender reassignation?
0:48:57 > 0:49:00It used to be pretty tough. No anaesthesia, nothing.
0:49:00 > 0:49:03And the pieces were discarded. Oh, my goodness!
0:49:03 > 0:49:06But now it is different, because you can have it properly done - No!
0:49:06 > 0:49:09I will tell you now, still, in India...
0:49:12 > 0:49:15..and they do this castration. So, it's quite painful.
0:49:15 > 0:49:20Sometimes they cut the urethra, so you can't control your urine.
0:49:20 > 0:49:23Oh, that's awful. But the desire is, "I just want to remove it."
0:49:23 > 0:49:25"I just want to remove it."
0:49:25 > 0:49:28There is a procedure called vaginoplasty, as well,
0:49:28 > 0:49:32where you can replace what was the penis with a... It is very costly.
0:49:32 > 0:49:36It is not to go and just - You've not undergone this?
0:49:38 > 0:49:42I just wanted to leave my vagina. I will tell you the funny thing.
0:49:42 > 0:49:44When my operation did it, and then the sister came,
0:49:44 > 0:49:47and she say, "Your operation is done."
0:49:47 > 0:49:50So I say, "That is proper now? You have made proper now?" Wonderful!
0:49:57 > 0:50:01The first one you ever saw was your own! My first was...
0:50:07 > 0:50:09"Look at yours." She gave me a mirror.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12She wouldn't let you see hers? She was very open and friendly.
0:50:12 > 0:50:15And I saw the mirror, said, "Yack. What you have done?"
0:50:15 > 0:50:18HE LAUGHS
0:50:18 > 0:50:21See, I am not ashamed at what I have done with myself.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24I am very much proud, because I have not cheated any woman.
0:50:24 > 0:50:26I have not cheated myself.
0:50:26 > 0:50:31But, then, also, I don't have guts to come and stand in front of my dad.
0:50:31 > 0:50:34"OK, look. Your son."
0:50:35 > 0:50:38Not even after 20 years. I don't know.
0:50:38 > 0:50:43I know that he would never accept me. He... They will never. I know that.
0:50:46 > 0:50:49Living alone, once we have to leave the family,
0:50:49 > 0:50:53biological family, we again here come, and we made a family.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57When you've been thrown out of your own family,
0:50:57 > 0:51:00the next best thing is to make your family yourself.
0:51:00 > 0:51:04These are my family. Julie's just 19 years. Really? Oh!
0:51:04 > 0:51:08She's just 19 years, and before five months, she have castration. Yeah.
0:51:23 > 0:51:26Because they know if I will tease a Hijra, no-one will ask me.
0:51:26 > 0:51:31But on the street, anyone will come and just ditch you and go.
0:51:37 > 0:51:40Mwah! Bye! Bye-bye! Thank you.
0:52:03 > 0:52:08'It's upsetting to hear how rejected the Hijras have become.
0:52:08 > 0:52:11'But it's made me realise that,
0:52:11 > 0:52:14'even amongst my own gay community back home,
0:52:14 > 0:52:19'transgenders are often the least accepted and understood.
0:52:19 > 0:52:21'As India's gay community gets organised,
0:52:21 > 0:52:26'it's showing signs of reaching out to its more vulnerable members,
0:52:26 > 0:52:29'and there could be a lesson in that for all of us.'
0:52:30 > 0:52:34Nice to see you! You are... I am Pallav. You are Pallav.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38Lovely to meet you. This is where the Humsafar Trust has its home?
0:52:38 > 0:52:41This is the reception area of the Humsafar Trust,
0:52:41 > 0:52:43where we receive people who come in for HIV testing
0:52:43 > 0:52:45or receiving further surgery.
0:52:45 > 0:52:48BOLLYWOOD-STYLE MUSIC
0:52:48 > 0:52:52'Abheena Aher is trying to offer an alternative to sex work
0:52:52 > 0:52:54'for her community,
0:52:54 > 0:52:58'and has set up the country's first transgender dance troupe,
0:52:58 > 0:53:01'The Dancing Queens.'
0:53:04 > 0:53:06SHE SPEAKS ACCENTED ENGLISH
0:53:16 > 0:53:19This is how society is. And it is very funny,
0:53:19 > 0:53:22because you worship Lord Shiva, the Ardhanarishvara,
0:53:22 > 0:53:26which is a combination, half body of a man and half body of a woman,
0:53:26 > 0:53:29but you are not willing to accept a transgender in a society.
0:53:29 > 0:53:32BOLLYWOOD-STYLE MUSIC
0:53:35 > 0:53:37When you talk about Hijras, people always presume
0:53:37 > 0:53:41that they belong to a lower class of society.
0:53:59 > 0:54:02No. It's terrible, isn't it?
0:54:05 > 0:54:08It is all about giving that first chance. Absolutely.
0:54:08 > 0:54:12And it will happen, I'm sure. It'll be too slow for anybody's patience,
0:54:12 > 0:54:15but it will happen.
0:54:17 > 0:54:19Oh!
0:54:20 > 0:54:22Brava!
0:54:37 > 0:54:40Before I bid a fond farewell to India,
0:54:40 > 0:54:44I've been invited to say a few words at a club
0:54:44 > 0:54:47popular on Mumbai's up-and-coming gay scene.
0:54:47 > 0:54:50Whoa! ALL SHOUT AND CHATTER
0:54:50 > 0:54:52Excuse me. SHE GASPS
0:54:52 > 0:54:54Oh, my God!
0:54:55 > 0:54:58CHEERING Thank you very much. Thank you.
0:54:58 > 0:55:01It's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much for welcoming me.
0:55:01 > 0:55:05I am here because it's part of a documentary I'm making
0:55:05 > 0:55:09about being gay around the world.
0:55:09 > 0:55:12THEY CHEER
0:55:12 > 0:55:17Now, what, you may think, have I concluded about India?
0:55:17 > 0:55:20What am I taking away tonight, in fact,
0:55:20 > 0:55:23which is my flight back home, sadly.
0:55:23 > 0:55:26I shall carry you in my heart forever.
0:55:26 > 0:55:28ALL: Ahhh!
0:55:28 > 0:55:30HE LAUGHS That's all right.
0:55:30 > 0:55:33You are such an easy lay! THEY LAUGH
0:55:33 > 0:55:36Um... It's a very extraordinary thing.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39Everybody has told me how important family is here,
0:55:39 > 0:55:42how difficult it is to come out,
0:55:42 > 0:55:45not because your parents are disgusted by homosexuality,
0:55:45 > 0:55:50but because they're slightly embarrassed about what they're going to tell Mrs Patel next door, and...
0:55:50 > 0:55:52THEY LAUGH Just, um...
0:55:52 > 0:55:55But once they get over that, they're more interested,
0:55:55 > 0:55:58if you're going to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend,
0:55:58 > 0:56:01that they are a doctor or they've got a really good job,
0:56:01 > 0:56:04and if they have, then it's fine,
0:56:04 > 0:56:07and that is the most balanced and sane response that I've come across.
0:56:07 > 0:56:12It seems apparent to me that this is one of the most comfortable countries in which to be gay,
0:56:12 > 0:56:15especially, of course - and this is your duty -
0:56:15 > 0:56:19especially if you are educated, English-speaking, middle class...
0:56:19 > 0:56:21Let's be honest, it is easier for you
0:56:21 > 0:56:25than it is for the Hijra in the slum. Yeah!
0:56:25 > 0:56:28APPLAUSE And therefore, I should imagine
0:56:28 > 0:56:32that you are all as excited, er, in the years to come,
0:56:32 > 0:56:36in pushing that out into the suburbs, into the rural areas,
0:56:36 > 0:56:40to make it really count. Wouldn't that be exciting?
0:56:40 > 0:56:42THEY CHEER AND APPLAUD
0:56:51 > 0:56:55'In the two and a half years I've been making this series,
0:56:55 > 0:57:00'the gay issue has continued to be debated at home.'
0:57:00 > 0:57:03Many years ago, I had the great good fortune to meet someone.
0:57:03 > 0:57:05She and I have loved each other since...
0:57:05 > 0:57:11This bill weakens what exists and replaces it with a less good option.
0:57:11 > 0:57:17It is as foolish to condemn those who have homosexual proclivities
0:57:17 > 0:57:20as it is to condemn them for having red hair,
0:57:20 > 0:57:23and I have lived with that all my life.
0:57:23 > 0:57:28'And now one of the most dramatic steps ever taken for gay equality
0:57:28 > 0:57:30'has come to pass.'
0:57:30 > 0:57:32Well, it's wonderful to come back to a Britain
0:57:32 > 0:57:35where we are celebrating the news
0:57:35 > 0:57:38that a House of Commons and even a House of Lords
0:57:38 > 0:57:40has passed into law a gay-marriage bill
0:57:40 > 0:57:43which could soon be enacted
0:57:43 > 0:57:47such that people really will be able to marry people of their own gender.
0:57:47 > 0:57:51That's... Not that anyone would have me, but it's still fantastic news.
0:57:51 > 0:57:54But it's not enough for laws to change. Attitudes have to change.
0:57:54 > 0:57:57It was here, after all, in Trafalgar Square itself,
0:57:57 > 0:58:00the very centre of London, one of the safest cities
0:58:00 > 0:58:02in which to be gay in the world,
0:58:02 > 0:58:06where Ian Baynham, only a few years ago, was savagely kicked to death.
0:58:06 > 0:58:10So homophobia is still a world problem.
0:58:10 > 0:58:12Homosexuality isn't, and never has been.
0:58:12 > 0:58:16Homosexuals are not interested in making other people homosexual.
0:58:16 > 0:58:20Homophobics ARE interested in making other people homophobic.
0:58:20 > 0:58:23I think we just have to take stock of ourselves
0:58:23 > 0:58:26very honestly and independently,
0:58:26 > 0:58:28and simply to, er...to love.
0:58:28 > 0:58:31Um... Er...
0:58:31 > 0:58:35It's really that simple. It's all about love.
0:58:36 > 0:58:39SONG: "Fever To The Form" by Nick Mulvey
0:58:53 > 0:58:57# Cos the very thing you're afraid
0:58:57 > 0:58:59# Afraid of
0:58:59 > 0:59:03# That keeps you clean but unclear
0:59:03 > 0:59:05# Clean but unclear
0:59:05 > 0:59:10# Is the dirt that you're made
0:59:10 > 0:59:12# Made of
0:59:12 > 0:59:15Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd