Deadline: The New York Times

0:00:02 > 0:00:09This programme contains very strong language

0:00:53 > 0:00:57It's hardly breaking news that the newspaper business is in deep trouble.

0:00:57 > 0:01:00The Rocky Mountain News, which has been around for 150 years,

0:01:00 > 0:01:03is publishing its last edition today.

0:01:03 > 0:01:04A great newspaper is dead.

0:01:04 > 0:01:07Denver can't support two newspapers any longer.

0:01:07 > 0:01:09It's a grim race to see who goes under first.

0:01:09 > 0:01:12The Philadelphia Daily News and Minneapolis Star Tribune

0:01:12 > 0:01:14are both in bankruptcy.

0:01:14 > 0:01:16The Boston Globe and San Francisco Chronicle have been losing...

0:01:16 > 0:01:21The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, the largest daily newspaper yet to go out of business.

0:01:21 > 0:01:25Tribune Company, owner of the LA Times and Chicago Tribune filed for bankruptcy.

0:01:25 > 0:01:26The Gannett Company is faltering.

0:01:26 > 0:01:29All the news fit to print for 88 years...

0:01:29 > 0:01:33After 146 years, the print edition is now a thing of the past.

0:01:33 > 0:01:38New York Times stock is off more than 75%.

0:01:38 > 0:01:41The New York Times? Are you kidding me?!

0:01:41 > 0:01:46The obituary column these days is full of the death notices of American daily newspapers.

0:02:10 > 0:02:12There's been a death watch on New York Times

0:02:12 > 0:02:14as long as I've been in media.

0:02:14 > 0:02:17People are sort of fascinated with what's going to be

0:02:17 > 0:02:19the demise of this great institution.

0:02:19 > 0:02:21And it hasn't come, and it hasn't come,

0:02:21 > 0:02:25but that doesn't lessen people's certainty that it will come.

0:02:40 > 0:02:43OK, I see this as a big story.

0:02:43 > 0:02:46I can probably get significant space.

0:02:46 > 0:02:50What do you think the story is that I should tell?

0:02:50 > 0:02:52'Lately when I finish an interview,

0:02:52 > 0:02:54'subjects have a question of their own.

0:02:54 > 0:02:56'What's going to happen at The New York Times?'

0:03:03 > 0:03:06'Even casual followers of the newspaper industry

0:03:06 > 0:03:09'could rattle off the doomsday tick tock.'

0:03:12 > 0:03:13Bruce Headlam.

0:03:13 > 0:03:17'As much as we flatter ourselves, it's still an old school business.'

0:03:17 > 0:03:18I'm the Media Editor.

0:03:18 > 0:03:22'Trees are still cut and papers are still delivered.'

0:03:22 > 0:03:26- I just think that helps us sort of be in the mix. - Yeah, yeah.- OK.

0:03:26 > 0:03:28'Not to worry, suggest new media prophets.

0:03:28 > 0:03:32'The end of The New York Times wouldn't be a big deal, they say,

0:03:32 > 0:03:35'because Tweets, blogs and news aggregators could create

0:03:35 > 0:03:37'a new apparatus of accountability.'

0:03:37 > 0:03:39Say again?

0:03:41 > 0:03:43'But some stories are beyond the database.

0:03:43 > 0:03:45'Sometimes people have to make calls,

0:03:45 > 0:03:50'hit the streets and walk past the conventional wisdom.'

0:03:53 > 0:03:55Well, trust me, if your numbers are better

0:03:55 > 0:03:57than anybody else's, I will write that.

0:03:57 > 0:04:00I'm just always sceptical when everybody tells me

0:04:00 > 0:04:03that the numbers don't mean what they appear to mean, you know.

0:04:03 > 0:04:07Everybody gives me that line, so I don't accept it from anybody.

0:04:07 > 0:04:11The collapse in advertising happened

0:04:11 > 0:04:14faster than anybody anticipated.

0:04:14 > 0:04:15This year in 2009,

0:04:15 > 0:04:19there's been about a 30% decline in advertising revenue,

0:04:19 > 0:04:21on top of about a 17% decline last year,

0:04:21 > 0:04:24and nobody knows where that ends.

0:04:24 > 0:04:27It might just be that something very permanent has changed.

0:04:27 > 0:04:32Two things have happened to The Times, I think, most of all.

0:04:32 > 0:04:35The first thing is the advertising market has turned upside down.

0:04:35 > 0:04:38So at the same time as the revenue takes a hit,

0:04:38 > 0:04:40suddenly publishing has gone from being

0:04:40 > 0:04:44something done by a specialty class to being something that literally

0:04:44 > 0:04:47every connected citizen has access to.

0:04:47 > 0:04:51So the authoritative tone with which The Times has always spoken,

0:04:51 > 0:04:55is now one of many, many voices in a marketplace.

0:04:55 > 0:04:57The reduction in advertising revenue

0:04:57 > 0:05:01coupled with the competition for attention both at the same time

0:05:01 > 0:05:03has turned this from a transition into a revolution.

0:05:15 > 0:05:17This is about WikiLeaks, a website

0:05:17 > 0:05:20which calls itself an intelligence agency for the people.

0:05:20 > 0:05:24And yesterday they posted this video of a US attack,

0:05:24 > 0:05:26an aerial attack, where there were 12 people killed.

0:05:26 > 0:05:29The government claimed these were insurgents,

0:05:29 > 0:05:31but turns out there were two Reuters employees

0:05:31 > 0:05:33and then some other unknown people.

0:05:33 > 0:05:36WikiLeaks somehow from an anonymous source gets the video

0:05:36 > 0:05:37and puts it on YouTube.

0:05:37 > 0:05:41It felt like a possible front page story to Bruce and I.

0:05:41 > 0:05:44Now the assignment for the rest of the day

0:05:44 > 0:05:46is to keep the story interesting to editors.

0:05:46 > 0:05:49We're trying to do a front page story on what this means,

0:05:49 > 0:05:51and what this means for journalism.

0:05:51 > 0:05:55It's great for journalists in some ways, because it's out there,

0:05:55 > 0:05:57but it's this collision of two worlds.

0:05:57 > 0:06:00This closed old world of expertise

0:06:00 > 0:06:02and classification and information and privacy

0:06:02 > 0:06:05and this new world that wants to crack it all open.

0:06:05 > 0:06:08You know, we see it ourselves. We're a perfect example

0:06:08 > 0:06:11of a culture that's having what we do completely ripped open.

0:06:11 > 0:06:13PHONE RINGS

0:06:13 > 0:06:16Hey, did you send it?

0:06:16 > 0:06:18OK, yeah, I got it. Thanks. Bye.

0:06:18 > 0:06:22This is watching people get killed in an incredibly graphic way in a war

0:06:22 > 0:06:25and hearing the reactions of the soldiers.

0:06:49 > 0:06:52I didn't see the van flip over. I didn't notice it last time.

0:06:52 > 0:06:54What a fucking terrible story.

0:06:54 > 0:06:56"The release of the Iraq video

0:06:56 > 0:06:58"is heaping attention on the once obscure website,

0:06:58 > 0:07:01"which takes advantage of the global internet

0:07:01 > 0:07:04"to give hidden information on governments and corporations."

0:07:04 > 0:07:08They didn't have to drop this off at NBC News or The New York Times.

0:07:08 > 0:07:11They dropped it on YouTube and waited for everybody to find it.

0:07:11 > 0:07:13Even with The Pentagon Papers,

0:07:13 > 0:07:16they had to be delivered by hand and they can stop the presses.

0:07:16 > 0:07:20This, they're just putting it up there where everybody can see it.

0:07:23 > 0:07:25- Hello.- Yes, sir.

0:07:25 > 0:07:27Hi, Al, anything new on your front today?

0:07:27 > 0:07:31Very significant, this goddamn New York Times expose

0:07:31 > 0:07:35of the most highly classified documents of the war.

0:07:35 > 0:07:37Goddamn it, I'm not going to have it.

0:07:37 > 0:07:38Could The Times be prosecuted?

0:07:38 > 0:07:41As far as The Times is concerned, they're our enemies.

0:07:41 > 0:07:43I think we just ought to do it

0:07:43 > 0:07:46and anyway, nobody from New York Times is to be talked to.

0:07:46 > 0:07:49The decision to publish The Pentagon Papers

0:07:49 > 0:07:51was the moment when the American news media

0:07:51 > 0:07:55stood up and said, "We are independent of the presidency

0:07:55 > 0:07:58"and we are going to do what we think is the right thing to do."

0:07:58 > 0:08:02Mr Sulzberger, do you feel national security is endangered, as charged by the administration?

0:08:02 > 0:08:05I certainly do not.

0:08:05 > 0:08:09These papers, I think, as our editorial said this morning,

0:08:09 > 0:08:12were really a part of a part of history

0:08:12 > 0:08:16that should have been made available considerably longer ago.

0:08:16 > 0:08:21I just didn't feel there was any breach of national security

0:08:21 > 0:08:24in the sense that we were giving secrets to the enemy.

0:08:24 > 0:08:26Julian Assange, editor for WikiLeaks,

0:08:26 > 0:08:29denies that the site has put troops in danger.

0:08:29 > 0:08:31Assange is clearly an advocate and opponent of the war.

0:08:31 > 0:08:34Assange made a name for himself as a hacker,

0:08:34 > 0:08:36and was arrested for computer crimes

0:08:36 > 0:08:39before starting his whistleblower website.

0:08:39 > 0:08:42We would like to see the revelations this material gives

0:08:42 > 0:08:45investigated by governments,

0:08:45 > 0:08:47and new policies

0:08:47 > 0:08:51put in place as a result, if not prosecutions.

0:08:51 > 0:08:53I've got to try Julian again,

0:08:53 > 0:08:56cos I have not heard back from him at all.

0:08:56 > 0:08:58Hello.

0:08:58 > 0:09:00Hi, it's Brian Stelter calling from The Times.

0:09:00 > 0:09:04There's a traditional definition of journalism that is objective,

0:09:04 > 0:09:08totally legal, never breaking the law to obtain content.

0:09:08 > 0:09:12Do you view yourself as trying to achieve that definition,

0:09:12 > 0:09:15or is your definition of journalism broader?

0:09:20 > 0:09:23And tell me what the goal is. Tell me what the goal is.

0:09:26 > 0:09:29I don't know if what he's doing is good or bad.

0:09:29 > 0:09:34Clearly, you know, in an open society, information is important.

0:09:34 > 0:09:36It's vital for people to make decisions.

0:09:36 > 0:09:39On the other hand, there are things to get people in trouble.

0:09:39 > 0:09:43The video was edited in a way that did not show the full story.

0:09:43 > 0:09:48It was presented as journalism, but it had, you know, an agenda.

0:09:48 > 0:09:51Is "journalist" a word you attach to yourself?

0:09:54 > 0:09:56OK.

0:10:11 > 0:10:13The video has been edited to the extent

0:10:13 > 0:10:16that you have a hard time knowing the greater context.

0:10:17 > 0:10:18There is, there is.

0:10:18 > 0:10:20- So they have both, right? - They did do both.

0:10:20 > 0:10:24But the unedited version clearly shows a guy carrying an RPG.

0:10:24 > 0:10:27They're shifting from being a clearing house to being an advocacy.

0:10:27 > 0:10:32- It's a big decision to suddenly edit a 30-minute thing.- Are you writing separately on this?- We are.- OK.

0:10:32 > 0:10:35I certainly had not heard of WikiLeaks before that moment.

0:10:35 > 0:10:39And I think probably a lot of my colleagues hadn't, either.

0:10:39 > 0:10:43That was the time it kind of burst out into broader public view.

0:10:46 > 0:10:49Hey, hey, did you send it?

0:10:49 > 0:10:53Oh, I saw a... There was a note in there I didn't see from you. I'm going to open it up.

0:10:53 > 0:10:57He's lying. Oh, he didn't send it. I knew he didn't send it.

0:10:59 > 0:11:05There's two A1 meetings, the 10.30 where we discuss the stories of the day, what we're going to offer.

0:11:05 > 0:11:07And a 4.00, when the top editors make that decision.

0:11:10 > 0:11:14It's all the desk heads, or somebody from each desk. You make pitches, they ask questions.

0:11:14 > 0:11:18They decide what they want to put in the paper the next day. It's kind of a competition.

0:11:18 > 0:11:24You go in there and lots of people want stories and we fight to get on A1. But it's constructive fighting.

0:11:24 > 0:11:28OK, folks, we're still waiting for a few people but I think we can get started. First, Bruce.

0:11:28 > 0:11:32This is our follow on the video that was released yesterday on the web.

0:11:32 > 0:11:35We're looking at WikiLeaks, the organisation that leaked it.

0:11:35 > 0:11:40It's a very interesting moment. They've been gaining notoriety because of the Baghdad video.

0:11:40 > 0:11:43They've put up the raw footage, which is 38 minutes.

0:11:43 > 0:11:47They've also put up an edited version, which is what many people are seeing,

0:11:47 > 0:11:50and there are already people in the Army and elsewhere

0:11:50 > 0:11:53saying that this distorts what actually happened there.

0:12:04 > 0:12:06And when they went to get the bodies,

0:12:06 > 0:12:07they found a guy with the RPG,

0:12:07 > 0:12:11so as Bruce was saying, it's become advocacy. Now...

0:12:16 > 0:12:20- Somebody's...yeah.- They probably belong in the same place.- I'm sorry?

0:12:20 > 0:12:23- They probably belong in one kind of coherent whole, right?- Sure.

0:12:23 > 0:12:25Yeah, right, right.

0:12:25 > 0:12:27'In the Page One meeting, the most senior editors

0:12:27 > 0:12:32'look at the summary of the story and say, "Have you framed it correctly? Does this seem loaded?

0:12:32 > 0:12:34'"Do you have enough facts to back this up?"'

0:12:34 > 0:12:38And then ultimately people present their arguments and build the sides.

0:12:47 > 0:12:49Oh, the West Bank story.

0:12:51 > 0:12:52Hm.

0:12:52 > 0:12:57I don't think the whole country is interested in Sharpe James.

0:12:57 > 0:12:58No.

0:12:58 > 0:13:00Swing Sharpe and West Bank?

0:13:00 > 0:13:03West Bank's going to have a big readership here.

0:13:03 > 0:13:04Yeah, I wouldn't swing that.

0:13:04 > 0:13:06Swing it with WikiLeaks?

0:13:06 > 0:13:08- Uh-huh.- OK, swing it with WikiLeaks.

0:13:08 > 0:13:11Let's leave the West Bank story.

0:13:11 > 0:13:14It's going to swing, so in New York it will go inside,

0:13:14 > 0:13:17but for the rest of the country it will go on the front page.

0:13:17 > 0:13:22You know, you look for that moment where you can really tell people, "Here's how the world's changing."

0:13:22 > 0:13:25When I gave The Pentagon Papers to The Times,

0:13:25 > 0:13:27there was a 22-month period

0:13:27 > 0:13:30from the start of my copying to it finally coming out.

0:13:30 > 0:13:32Had the internet existed then,

0:13:32 > 0:13:35I would have bought a scanner, sent it out to all the blogs.

0:13:35 > 0:13:38It's not certain that that would have had as good an effect,

0:13:38 > 0:13:40but at least it would have been out.

0:13:40 > 0:13:45The bottom line is WikiLeaks doesn't need us.

0:13:45 > 0:13:47Daniel Ellsberg did.

0:13:48 > 0:13:51The old newspaper model is dying.

0:13:51 > 0:13:53Period. Done.

0:13:53 > 0:13:58News is not dying. News is much cheaper to produce now because we can gather and share in new ways,

0:13:58 > 0:14:02operate on cheap platforms, in networks. There's incredible new ways to do news.

0:14:02 > 0:14:06There is still an enormous amount of information out there,

0:14:06 > 0:14:10but these papers have the great capacity of a newsroom.

0:14:10 > 0:14:13And if you think of the history of these institutions...

0:14:13 > 0:14:17Watergate, Abu Ghraib, the Walter Reed scandal,

0:14:17 > 0:14:21it is these institutions bringing to bear newsrooms of experienced journalists.

0:14:21 > 0:14:24I think we're at a dangerous moment in American journalism.

0:14:24 > 0:14:28The question really is whether it's too late for some institutions

0:14:28 > 0:14:31to take advantage of that change and change as much as they have to.

0:14:31 > 0:14:34So along comes David Carr, the most human of humans,

0:14:34 > 0:14:38talking about how media operates within The New York Times.

0:14:38 > 0:14:41Please welcome David Carr!

0:14:46 > 0:14:50You were... You are a former crack addict

0:14:50 > 0:14:54and you are a reporter for The New York Times.

0:14:54 > 0:14:57Which of these two do you think is more damaging to society?

0:15:01 > 0:15:04'If you write about the media long enough,

0:15:04 > 0:15:09'eventually you'll type your way to your own doorstep.

0:15:10 > 0:15:15'I arrived at The New York Times late in my professional life,

0:15:15 > 0:15:18'and I have an immigrant's love of the place.

0:15:18 > 0:15:21'The chip that was implanted in me when I arrived,

0:15:21 > 0:15:23'let's just call it New York Times exceptionalism,

0:15:23 > 0:15:27'leads me to conclude that of course we will survive.'

0:15:27 > 0:15:29You're so nice!

0:15:29 > 0:15:34'Then again, having suffered through drug addiction in my 20s and 30s,

0:15:34 > 0:15:36'landing in jail for cocaine possession,

0:15:36 > 0:15:38'raising two children as a single parent,

0:15:38 > 0:15:41'and eventually ending up at The New York Times,

0:15:41 > 0:15:45'I know what it's like to come out the other side when the odds are stacked against you.'

0:15:58 > 0:16:00Hi, I'm looking for Alex.

0:16:00 > 0:16:02Sure, you can go have a seat on the couch.

0:16:02 > 0:16:05- Huh?- He'll be right back.- OK.

0:16:05 > 0:16:10- Hi.- This is David Carr from The New York Times.- Don't keep saying I'm from The New York Times.

0:16:10 > 0:16:13- That sucks. I'm just...it's just me. - It's nice to meet you.

0:16:13 > 0:16:16- Nice to meet you. - Hi, pleased to meet you. How are you?

0:16:16 > 0:16:22We wanted to get everyone together to do a company-wide update.

0:16:22 > 0:16:25The media landscape is changing in dramatic ways in just six months.

0:16:25 > 0:16:30So print as an industry and a medium continues to nosedive.

0:16:30 > 0:16:34Publications like Newsweek and Times are going down fast.

0:16:34 > 0:16:38We like to say that we're perfectly positioned.

0:16:38 > 0:16:42Not only are the sort of biggest media companies willing to come talk to us,

0:16:42 > 0:16:45but the biggest brands want to come talk to us and give us money.

0:16:45 > 0:16:47And what we have to do is we have to figure out

0:16:47 > 0:16:51how we can be meaner and faster and more dynamic than everybody out there.

0:16:51 > 0:16:54We don't want to get hot and die. We want to get hotter.

0:16:54 > 0:16:58You asked the question is there a business model that, like...

0:16:58 > 0:16:59- Just a sec, though.- Yeah.

0:16:59 > 0:17:03I want you to fill me on this. I don't do corporate portraiture.

0:17:03 > 0:17:07What the fuck is going on that you're doing business with CNN?

0:17:07 > 0:17:12We know how to speak to young people. They're listening to us. We're a trusted brand for them.

0:17:12 > 0:17:16The first thing that CNN said when they walked into the meeting last summer was,

0:17:16 > 0:17:19"49-year-olds are watching CNN right now, and we're fucked.

0:17:19 > 0:17:24"Can you please help us develop a new, young audience for the future?

0:17:24 > 0:17:29"They like the way you tell stories. They like your hosts. They like where you go."

0:17:29 > 0:17:31That's really what they came looking for.

0:17:36 > 0:17:38So what kind of war is this - guerrilla?

0:17:40 > 0:17:44I don't know Liberia. I don't know what's going on.

0:17:44 > 0:17:47I'm not going there for a news thing.

0:17:47 > 0:17:51I'm not there to solve the problems of the world. I'm just a regular guy.

0:17:51 > 0:17:55I didn't get flown in on a thing. I don't have security. I've been to places, just fucking insane.

0:18:04 > 0:18:10If you're a CNN viewer and you go, "Hm, I'm looking at human shit on the beach."

0:18:10 > 0:18:14I'm a regular guy and I go to these places and I go,

0:18:14 > 0:18:18"OK, everyone talked to me about cannibalism, right?"

0:18:18 > 0:18:22I'm getting a lot of shit for saying the word "cannibalism" and stuff, whatever.

0:18:22 > 0:18:24Everyone talked to me about cannibalism!

0:18:29 > 0:18:33- So you'd kill the child?- Yes. - And then drink the blood?- Yeah.

0:18:36 > 0:18:41That's fucking crazy. So our audience goes, "That's fucking insane. Like, that's nuts."

0:18:41 > 0:18:44And The New York Times meanwhile is writing about surfing.

0:18:44 > 0:18:47I'm sitting there going, "I'm not going to talk about surfing.

0:18:47 > 0:18:52- "I'm going to talk about cannibalism because that fucks me up." - Just a sec. Time out.

0:18:52 > 0:18:57Before you ever went there, we've had reporters there reporting on genocide after genocide.

0:18:57 > 0:19:01And just because you put on a fucking safari helmet

0:19:01 > 0:19:05- and went and looked at some poop doesn't give you the right to insult what we do.- True.

0:19:05 > 0:19:08- So continue, continue.- Sorry.

0:19:08 > 0:19:11I'm just saying that I'm not a journalist. I'm not there to report.

0:19:11 > 0:19:14- Obviously. Go ahead.- I'm sorry.

0:19:14 > 0:19:17I'm just talking about, you know, look what I saw there.

0:19:23 > 0:19:25What's up?

0:19:25 > 0:19:27Dressed like a big Page One guy.

0:19:27 > 0:19:30- How are you?- Boy, what a day.

0:19:30 > 0:19:32The Times was really where I wanted to work

0:19:32 > 0:19:34from when I was very young.

0:19:34 > 0:19:39I had this idea of the place as this magisterial place where great things happened and were done.

0:19:39 > 0:19:41And there was this idea in the past

0:19:41 > 0:19:45where getting to The Times was almost like getting tenure.

0:19:45 > 0:19:48And you could have this great long 30-year, 40-year career

0:19:48 > 0:19:51where you go cover politics, you cover some foreign, write a book.

0:19:51 > 0:19:54And that's not the track now.

0:19:54 > 0:19:57Ladies and gentlemen, we are now on West 43rd Street

0:19:57 > 0:20:01in Midtown Manhattan in the central office of The New York Times.

0:20:01 > 0:20:03They are this minute busy getting ready.

0:20:03 > 0:20:07This is the beehive, the central office, the city room.

0:20:07 > 0:20:12Here an avalanche of news is shaped into Monday morning's newspaper.

0:20:12 > 0:20:14Well, here we are, boys.

0:20:14 > 0:20:17That is Turner Catledge, the managing editor.

0:20:17 > 0:20:19I just heard from the circulation department

0:20:19 > 0:20:22that we had the largest distribution of papers today

0:20:22 > 0:20:24in the history of The New York Times.

0:20:24 > 0:20:28Hard news was a phrase The Times almost owned.

0:20:28 > 0:20:31NBC, CBS, ABC, the first thing they'd do in the morning,

0:20:31 > 0:20:33the directors would look at The New York Times.

0:20:33 > 0:20:37If "The New York Times" had a story about such and such in a faraway place,

0:20:37 > 0:20:40the networks would think, "Ah, we'll send Walter Cronkite there."

0:20:40 > 0:20:44When I was growing up, I read The Times every morning.

0:20:44 > 0:20:47Then I read this book by Gay Talese, The Kingdom And The Power,

0:20:47 > 0:20:50and it went inside this imperial institution.

0:20:50 > 0:20:52And he just, you know, thrilled me.

0:20:52 > 0:20:54I mean, there was nothing else I wanted to do.

0:20:54 > 0:20:57The Times was a very human institution,

0:20:57 > 0:21:01run by flawed figures, men who saw things as they could see them.

0:21:01 > 0:21:05But it was equally true that The Times nearly always tried to be fair.

0:21:05 > 0:21:08And each day, barring labour strikes or hydrogen bombs,

0:21:08 > 0:21:13it would appear in 11,464 cities around the nation and in all the capitals of the world,

0:21:13 > 0:21:1550 copies going to the White House,

0:21:15 > 0:21:1939 copies to Moscow, a few smuggled into Beijing,

0:21:19 > 0:21:22and a thick Sunday edition to the foreign minister in Taiwan,

0:21:22 > 0:21:27because he required The Times as necessary proof of the Earth's existence,

0:21:27 > 0:21:32a barometer of its pressure, an assessor of its sanity.

0:21:32 > 0:21:34If the world did indeed still exist,

0:21:34 > 0:21:38he knew it would be duly recorded each day in The Times.

0:21:38 > 0:21:42There's actually something called The New York Times effect.

0:21:42 > 0:21:46In the world of analogue newspapers, there was an observable effect.

0:21:46 > 0:21:49If on day one, The New York Times ran a piece on a particular story,

0:21:49 > 0:21:51a political or business issue,

0:21:51 > 0:21:55on day two, the tier-two newspapers would all essentially imitate the story.

0:21:55 > 0:21:58Like everything else in the newspaper business,

0:21:58 > 0:22:01we didn't realise that The New York Times effect

0:22:01 > 0:22:05actually depended on the structure of analogue newspaper distribution.

0:22:05 > 0:22:10The Times still, I think to a remarkable degree, sets the agenda.

0:22:10 > 0:22:13You really can trace almost any major story these days

0:22:13 > 0:22:16back to something that originally appeared in The Times.

0:22:16 > 0:22:20The problem is, is that once it reaches the public,

0:22:20 > 0:22:23they may not even know it came from The Times.

0:22:24 > 0:22:28OK, so at 6.00am the release goes out. Is that right?

0:22:28 > 0:22:34For two, three months now, I think end of September, the story leaked that Comcast was going to buy NBC.

0:22:34 > 0:22:37It seems like finally it will be announced.

0:22:37 > 0:22:40So the challenge is this piece I'm working on with Sorkin,

0:22:40 > 0:22:44what we call a tick-tock, which is the fun details behind the scenes of how the deal came together.

0:22:44 > 0:22:50I'm just waiting for Andrew to come up so we can sort that out, and we'll get that in the paper tomorrow.

0:22:50 > 0:22:54- By the way, how's the tick-tock coming?- Sorkin, I'm waiting for him.

0:22:54 > 0:22:57- Has he filed anything?- No.- So that means he hasn't written a word.

0:22:57 > 0:23:02- At 11.00, he said, "I'll have something in an hour."- I'll look like a chump if I don't hit that.

0:23:02 > 0:23:06Our deal was he was going to write what he had and I was going to write into it.

0:23:06 > 0:23:08Do you want me to go to him and say Bruce needs to talk?

0:23:08 > 0:23:11- Just say Bruce needs it in 15 minutes.- OK.

0:23:12 > 0:23:15It's another reshaping of the media industry.

0:23:15 > 0:23:17Comcast, which is the biggest cable company,

0:23:17 > 0:23:22look at the future and see what's going on in media, and worry about if young people are watching TV online,

0:23:22 > 0:23:24will they need to keep paying their cable bills?

0:23:24 > 0:23:29So they feel like, if they can own as much of the television shows and the movies,

0:23:29 > 0:23:32they can play a bigger part in that future.

0:23:35 > 0:23:39I want to talk to you. Can I wait?

0:23:39 > 0:23:40You'll come up?

0:23:40 > 0:23:43He's going to come up.

0:23:45 > 0:23:49All right, here's the lead. "The secret meeting..." Secret.

0:23:49 > 0:23:53"The secret meeting was set for 1.00pm the second week of July

0:23:53 > 0:23:58"in an out-of-the-way condominium along the ninth hole of the golf course in Sun Valley, Idaho.

0:23:58 > 0:24:00"Jeffrey Immelt got to the condo first,

0:24:00 > 0:24:04"trying desperately to avoid being spotted by Jeff Zucker,

0:24:04 > 0:24:08"the chief executive of NBC Universal who was mingling with executives by the duck pond

0:24:08 > 0:24:11"a couple hundred yards away and had no idea what was happening."

0:24:11 > 0:24:14OK, anyway, here's the story. I'm calling GE now.

0:24:14 > 0:24:16OK.

0:24:16 > 0:24:20- So I'm hoping you can like... - Sort of maybe tie it together. - ..tie it together.

0:24:20 > 0:24:24It's basically just all these little weird stories. I tried to tie it and leave little places to...

0:24:24 > 0:24:28It works out for Comcast if the thing becomes worth a lot of money in the future.

0:24:28 > 0:24:31- OK.- That's basically the concept.

0:24:31 > 0:24:35All right. How many words do you think we have for this? It's very long.

0:24:35 > 0:24:36- Can you do it in 1,500?- Yeah.

0:24:39 > 0:24:42- Is it looking good? Are you happy? - Yeah.- Some of this may be too much detail.

0:24:42 > 0:24:46- I went a little overboard. - Yeah, no, I'm tightening it up.

0:24:46 > 0:24:49- He said we have 1,500 words. - This thing's like 1,500 words now.

0:24:49 > 0:24:51No, no, he said we could have 1,500.

0:24:51 > 0:24:54I'll check. I've gotta make sure we got the space.

0:24:54 > 0:24:56Did Sorkin have a look?

0:24:56 > 0:25:00Sorkin just emailed me and said file away, but said don't put it on the web yet,

0:25:00 > 0:25:03because he still needs to confirm something.

0:25:03 > 0:25:06Once we could pare it down and tighten it up, I think it read well.

0:25:06 > 0:25:12It tried to tell a tale rather than get bogged down in the financials and the numbers.

0:25:24 > 0:25:27Here was this kid, 21-year-old Brian Stelter, who started a blog,

0:25:27 > 0:25:31who did it anonymously so no-one would out him, until The Times outed him as a kid.

0:25:31 > 0:25:34He made his brand and his reputation by getting out there blogging.

0:25:34 > 0:25:38He became this must-read for the Brian Williamses of the world.

0:25:38 > 0:25:41The Times had the idea, "Why don't we hire this guy?"

0:25:41 > 0:25:43A week after that story was published,

0:25:43 > 0:25:45The Times contacted me and asked me to come up

0:25:45 > 0:25:50and do these series of interviews back to back to back with editors, seeing if you're Times material.

0:25:50 > 0:25:55You see him at his desk and he's got two laptops and TVs open and he's Twittering,

0:25:55 > 0:25:58and he just embodies everything about new media.

0:25:58 > 0:26:01I don't know why anybody who's a reporter isn't on Twitter.

0:26:01 > 0:26:04I berate my colleagues who aren't on it.

0:26:04 > 0:26:09It drives me nuts when I'll hear my colleagues talking about a story at noon,

0:26:09 > 0:26:11and I read it on Twitter at midnight.

0:26:11 > 0:26:15I'm thinking, "Why is that allowed? "Why are we not on top of the news?" It's 2010.

0:26:15 > 0:26:20I still can't get over the feeling that Brian Stelter was a robot

0:26:20 > 0:26:24assembled in the basement of The New York Times to come and destroy me.

0:26:29 > 0:26:32I'm putting the expensive beer on the top.

0:26:34 > 0:26:40'Welcome to Austin, the city where, for the time being, everybody is famous,

0:26:40 > 0:26:45'the economy is rocking and the grid is groaning under an influx of the digitally interested.'

0:26:45 > 0:26:49- I might have to put you on ban. - No, I agree, I agree.

0:26:49 > 0:26:51I might have to put you on ban.

0:26:54 > 0:26:59You're both going to end up with your devices over the fence.

0:26:59 > 0:27:02'Twitter entered the lexicon two years ago here,

0:27:02 > 0:27:05'when it was the darling of the conference.

0:27:05 > 0:27:08'Why talk when you can tweet?'

0:27:08 > 0:27:12You're reading an article. If you want to tweet about it, you can do it right there.

0:27:12 > 0:27:14Headlines can be sent out via Twitter.

0:27:14 > 0:27:17It's about finding out what's happening in the world.

0:27:17 > 0:27:20'Really, what could anyone possibly find useful

0:27:20 > 0:27:25'in this cacophony of short-burst communication?

0:27:25 > 0:27:30'But at 52, I succumbed, partly out of professional necessity.

0:27:30 > 0:27:35'Now nearly a year later, has Twitter turned my brain to mush? No.'

0:27:35 > 0:27:37It's hard to convince someone to use Twitter

0:27:37 > 0:27:40until they use it for 10 days and they're, like,

0:27:40 > 0:27:42"This is why it's interesting."

0:27:42 > 0:27:46'I'm a narrative on more things at a given moment than I ever thought possible.

0:27:46 > 0:27:52'I get a sense of today's news and how people are reacting to it in the time it takes to wait for coffee.

0:27:52 > 0:27:57'Nearly a year in, I've come to understand that the real value of the service

0:27:57 > 0:28:01'is listening to a wired, collective voice.

0:28:01 > 0:28:05'The medium's not the message. The messages are the media.'

0:28:13 > 0:28:14Bruce?

0:28:14 > 0:28:20We're always looking for ways to show how cutbacks across the media business has affected coverage.

0:28:20 > 0:28:25Brian Stelter has come up with an unlikely one - coverage of the President of the United States.

0:28:25 > 0:28:29When Obama travels to Buffalo today, there won't be a charter plane travelling with him.

0:28:29 > 0:28:33Many of the networks have simply opted out of taking that very expensive ride,

0:28:33 > 0:28:35and the reason is simply cost.

0:28:36 > 0:28:39Uh, we'll call it "press".

0:28:39 > 0:28:43Oh, good, my sources are starting to come out.

0:28:43 > 0:28:45They're starting to wake up.

0:28:45 > 0:28:50It's job number one for every DC bureau to follow the President and to travel with him on trips.

0:28:50 > 0:28:56Lately there's been fewer and fewer of these White House planes that go with President Obama to events.

0:28:56 > 0:29:00These guys are trying every day to save every dollar they can.

0:29:00 > 0:29:05It's a demonstration of networks trying to do more with less. Or accepting you can only do less.

0:29:05 > 0:29:08Sometimes that's the answer, is just doing less.

0:29:08 > 0:29:12Is it 1,500 people on staff right now? 1,400.

0:29:12 > 0:29:16Are you confirming that 300 and 400 number that's out there?

0:29:16 > 0:29:18ABC's laying off 400 people.

0:29:18 > 0:29:22CBS laid off 90 a few weeks ago. God, that is stunning.

0:29:22 > 0:29:2720 to 25% of the staff they're trying to cut.

0:29:27 > 0:29:31They're not just there to make sure the President doesn't choke on a chicken bone.

0:29:31 > 0:29:34They're also there to corner people for interviews.

0:29:34 > 0:29:36I think the other thing you have to do is nod

0:29:36 > 0:29:40to what this is going to mean for coverage in the next few campaigns.

0:29:40 > 0:29:44In the last election, because they couldn't afford to send out regular reporters,

0:29:44 > 0:29:48they were sending out 24-year-olds with video cameras.

0:29:48 > 0:29:51Somebody fell asleep and it never would have been caught

0:29:51 > 0:29:54if they didn't have some kid with a video camera filming everything.

0:29:54 > 0:29:56He's not going to make news today, no.

0:29:56 > 0:30:00No, the last president who made news in Buffalo got shot.

0:30:00 > 0:30:01Wasn't it McKinley?

0:30:01 > 0:30:04Let's not put that one in the paper.

0:30:04 > 0:30:08This is what is it. How do you cover the President on the cheap?

0:30:10 > 0:30:15We've looked at every, I think, conceivable model

0:30:15 > 0:30:19all the way from, you know, philanthropic, you know,

0:30:19 > 0:30:25could you find a generous foundation that wants to underwrite The New York Times,

0:30:25 > 0:30:27to memberships.

0:30:27 > 0:30:28That's an extraordinary thing.

0:30:28 > 0:30:32I mean, it used to be that newspapers almost gave themselves away.

0:30:32 > 0:30:35They charged far less than the cost of printing the newspaper,

0:30:35 > 0:30:38and they made up the difference in advertising.

0:30:38 > 0:30:41The newspaper industry didn't see Monster.com taking the jobs portion away.

0:30:41 > 0:30:45They didn't see Craigslist taking the classifieds portion away.

0:30:45 > 0:30:47They didn't see Ford and GM making their own websites

0:30:47 > 0:30:50to take automotive advertising away for ever.

0:30:50 > 0:30:55We are now in the middle of a really unsettling time.

0:30:55 > 0:30:58The question is whether newspaper advertising will return

0:30:58 > 0:30:59at the same level.

0:30:59 > 0:31:01Like a lot of companies in the industry,

0:31:01 > 0:31:05this one found itself scrambling for its cash position.

0:31:05 > 0:31:08The company borrowed 250 million from Carlos Slim

0:31:08 > 0:31:13and executed a sale-leaseback of the building, which is like mortgaging the building.

0:31:13 > 0:31:14Nobody wanted to make any predictions,

0:31:14 > 0:31:18because the predictions they had been making had been so wrong.

0:31:18 > 0:31:19Nobody was pessimistic enough.

0:31:19 > 0:31:27There was just this sort of decades of organisational hubris

0:31:27 > 0:31:33about, you know, our own excellence and our own dominance.

0:31:33 > 0:31:38And then in a matter of, like, 18 months,

0:31:38 > 0:31:41all of a sudden there was the air ionised the situation,

0:31:41 > 0:31:44and everybody started, like, asking,

0:31:44 > 0:31:48could The New York Times, like, go out of business?

0:31:48 > 0:31:50It's trading for three bucks,

0:31:50 > 0:31:54a Sunday paper costs more than a share of New York Times stock.

0:31:54 > 0:31:57There has been, since the famous Atlantic, you know, Monthly story,

0:31:57 > 0:32:00there has been open talk of, "What if The Times were to go away?"

0:32:00 > 0:32:04You know, I don't pretend to be a seasoned business reporter,

0:32:04 > 0:32:06but certainly looking at the numbers,

0:32:06 > 0:32:10it did seem as if they were in some peril and that there certainly was a scenario

0:32:10 > 0:32:14in which if they didn't act fast, that The Times could go into bankruptcy.

0:32:14 > 0:32:16And so that's what I wrote.

0:32:16 > 0:32:19I thought, "You horse's ass." I thought, you know,

0:32:19 > 0:32:22"You don't know what you're talking about. You really don't."

0:32:22 > 0:32:25I thought that that kind of article, for that to appear in The Atlantic,

0:32:25 > 0:32:27that was just so stupid of The Atlantic.

0:32:27 > 0:32:31I was actually pretty stunned at the reaction that piece had.

0:32:31 > 0:32:34I just... I genuinely didn't expect

0:32:34 > 0:32:36that people would be so shocked by it,

0:32:36 > 0:32:38because it felt obvious to me.

0:32:38 > 0:32:41Please. I mean, this is The New York Times we're talking about,

0:32:41 > 0:32:46and I think that that kind of an article was both... I found it just dumb.

0:32:46 > 0:32:52There's a collective denial about what is going on, and that newspapers are somehow special

0:32:52 > 0:32:57and somehow they're public trusts and that they shouldn't fail,

0:32:57 > 0:33:00and so therefore they won't fail.

0:33:00 > 0:33:03And I think the disconnect between "shouldn't fail" and "can't fail"

0:33:03 > 0:33:06is the thing that I'm trying to, like, blow up.

0:33:20 > 0:33:22End Times is good. It's great.

0:33:22 > 0:33:28People have been arguing that The New York Times should be put out of business ever since there was one.

0:33:28 > 0:33:35So it's an old question, but one that has a great deal of salience for people. They like it.

0:33:35 > 0:33:38I don't think it's an argument that will be very easily made,

0:33:38 > 0:33:41and if it is, I'll vaporise whoever's making it.

0:33:41 > 0:33:43I'd like to note that none of us are economists.

0:33:43 > 0:33:47We're here not to talk about whether The Times is a viable institution or not,

0:33:47 > 0:33:51talk about CPMs or prices on advertising.

0:33:51 > 0:33:55We're here to talk about what would happen if The New York Times disappeared.

0:33:55 > 0:33:58How many of you would be happy if The Times disappeared?

0:33:58 > 0:34:00OK, so we have a sprinkling of hands.

0:34:00 > 0:34:03We have probably 10 people voted for that.

0:34:03 > 0:34:05And then how many of you would be disappointed or upset?

0:34:05 > 0:34:07OK, wow. So...

0:34:09 > 0:34:11Markos, I'm going to go to you first.

0:34:11 > 0:34:15If The Times ceased to exist, how would you feel about it?

0:34:15 > 0:34:17I think there's a perception

0:34:17 > 0:34:20that a lot of people like me who are writing online

0:34:20 > 0:34:24cheer the demise of traditional media outlets like The New York Times.

0:34:24 > 0:34:28But people like me just want traditional media outlets to do their jobs,

0:34:28 > 0:34:30to do what they're supposed to do.

0:34:30 > 0:34:34The New York Times helped cheerlead our way into the war in Iraq with Judith Miller.

0:34:34 > 0:34:37I think a lot of the decline in these media outlets

0:34:37 > 0:34:42is because people have lost faith that those publications don't have ulterior motives or agendas.

0:34:42 > 0:34:46People like me, I have an agenda, and I'm very clear about it.

0:34:46 > 0:34:50But The New York Times, they try to be something better than that.

0:34:50 > 0:34:52That's great, but here's the thing.

0:34:52 > 0:34:56When you're making an argument about how we're always falling down on the job,

0:34:56 > 0:35:02you're reaching back through five years of really important, good, hard reporting.

0:35:02 > 0:35:06- We're on the ground in Afghanistan, Iraq.- I'm not implying it's bad work.

0:35:06 > 0:35:10I'm saying that to claim that because you're with The Times you have to be taken seriously,

0:35:10 > 0:35:12I think that's dangerous.

0:35:12 > 0:35:15It's that sort of implied credibility that The New York Times brings,

0:35:15 > 0:35:18and that's how Judith Miller got away with her war,

0:35:18 > 0:35:20pre-war coverage that helped get us into this war.

0:35:20 > 0:35:24It's because, well, she works for The New York Times, so she has to be credible.

0:35:24 > 0:35:26Judy Miller reported, quote...

0:35:28 > 0:35:32The New York Times carried the unsubstantiated claims of those, including...

0:35:32 > 0:35:35On the front page of the nation's paper of record,

0:35:35 > 0:35:36The Times reported that

0:35:36 > 0:35:40Saddam Hussein had launched a...

0:35:40 > 0:35:44Weapons of mass destruction. Weapons of mass destruction.

0:35:44 > 0:35:47The Times had reporters who were very much vulnerable.

0:35:47 > 0:35:50There's a story in The New York Times this morning...

0:35:50 > 0:35:54We read in The New York Times today a story that says that Saddam Hussein is closer...

0:35:54 > 0:35:59They were trying to acquire certain high quality...

0:35:59 > 0:36:02The Bush administration was helped by The New York Times.

0:36:02 > 0:36:07If The New York Times thinks Saddam is on the precipice of mushroom clouds,

0:36:07 > 0:36:09then there is really no debate.

0:36:09 > 0:36:11Judy Miller was someone who was let loose on this story,

0:36:11 > 0:36:14and there were not people there

0:36:14 > 0:36:16who were given the power to rein her in,

0:36:16 > 0:36:19and she clearly needed to be reined in.

0:36:19 > 0:36:23Do you accept that your reporting was wrong?

0:36:23 > 0:36:25Absolutely.

0:36:25 > 0:36:28The handful of stories, about six or seven of them

0:36:28 > 0:36:33that I did before the war were wrong,

0:36:33 > 0:36:38and the intelligence information that I was accurately reporting was wrong.

0:36:39 > 0:36:43I guess if your sources are wrong, you're going to be wrong.

0:36:43 > 0:36:46But to say you got it wrong when your sources were wrong,

0:36:46 > 0:36:50that, as your colleagues at The New York Times have said,

0:36:50 > 0:36:52reduces your role as a journalist to no more than a stenographer.

0:36:52 > 0:36:56No, on the contrary, I really reject that criticism.

0:36:56 > 0:37:00We made errors in our coverage of the weapons of mass destruction.

0:37:00 > 0:37:03We made them at the reporting level and at the editing level.

0:37:03 > 0:37:05Does she tell the truth?

0:37:05 > 0:37:07HE SWALLOWS

0:37:07 > 0:37:09The New York Times can't have a reporter?

0:37:09 > 0:37:11And we don't.

0:37:14 > 0:37:17Anytime The Times fails on a serious scale

0:37:17 > 0:37:20on a particular story, a big story...

0:37:20 > 0:37:24there's a cost, there's a price to pay,

0:37:24 > 0:37:27and certainly in recent years, you've heard people say,

0:37:27 > 0:37:30"Well, I no longer need The Times. I can no longer trust The Times."

0:37:30 > 0:37:33One more Jayson Blair or one more Judy Miller

0:37:33 > 0:37:35and you're chipping away at this institution

0:37:35 > 0:37:37that everyone is, sort of, desperate to protect.

0:37:37 > 0:37:40I think, kind of, until Jayson Blair,

0:37:40 > 0:37:42they were, kind of, impervious. They were Teflon.

0:37:42 > 0:37:45The Jayson Blair incident was a real scandalous occasion.

0:37:45 > 0:37:47The reporter was found to be reporting stories

0:37:47 > 0:37:50at places where he was not actually there,

0:37:50 > 0:37:53though the dateline would give indication that he was there,

0:37:53 > 0:37:55taking stories and not even rewriting them,

0:37:55 > 0:37:57written by other people at other newspapers.

0:37:57 > 0:37:58He eventually got caught

0:37:58 > 0:38:00because he plagiarised a story from someone

0:38:00 > 0:38:04who had previously been a colleague of his at The Times.

0:38:04 > 0:38:08Not only does he take and wind a rope around his neck

0:38:08 > 0:38:12and, like, go jumping off a cliff, you know, right in plain sight,

0:38:12 > 0:38:15but he ties it to our feet and tries to pull us off the cliff with him.

0:38:15 > 0:38:18The minute they put it on the front page in that little box,

0:38:18 > 0:38:19I still remember the day it came out,

0:38:19 > 0:38:21Raines' reign was over.

0:38:21 > 0:38:25This system is not set up to catch someone who sets out to lie

0:38:25 > 0:38:28and to use every means at his or her disposal

0:38:28 > 0:38:31to put false information into the paper.

0:38:31 > 0:38:35You went from having Howell being the most successful editor,

0:38:35 > 0:38:38not just in the history of The Times, in the history of newspapering,

0:38:38 > 0:38:40to his being fired.

0:38:40 > 0:38:42I'm delighted to announce Bill Keller

0:38:42 > 0:38:44as our next executive editor.

0:38:46 > 0:38:49I'm aiming to raise our ambitions higher than they've ever been.

0:38:49 > 0:38:56When Bill came in, he was all about restoring trust after Howell Raines.

0:38:56 > 0:39:00He was supposed to, sort of, get the ship back on course.

0:39:00 > 0:39:02It just wasn't in the conversation that,

0:39:02 > 0:39:06you know, there was going to be an economic crisis in journalism

0:39:06 > 0:39:08and that's been the dominant event,

0:39:08 > 0:39:11I think, if you asked him, on his watch.

0:39:11 > 0:39:13'Darker times are ahead for the Gray Lady.

0:39:13 > 0:39:14'The Times will resort to layoffs.

0:39:14 > 0:39:17'The paper is looking to cut 100 jobs from its news staff

0:39:17 > 0:39:18'by the end of the week.'

0:39:27 > 0:39:29We're hearing that the layoffs are beginning today.

0:39:32 > 0:39:37We now know how many people have opted to go voluntarily,

0:39:37 > 0:39:40which means we know how many people we have to layoff.

0:39:40 > 0:39:44In the immediate moment, we're in the middle of cutting 100 people

0:39:44 > 0:39:46out of a staff of roughly 1,250.

0:39:46 > 0:39:51We've spent a lot of time in the last couple of weeks going over lists,

0:39:51 > 0:39:55trying to prioritise based on skills we can afford to lose.

0:39:55 > 0:39:58We are not a specialised newspaper, we're a general interest newspaper

0:39:58 > 0:40:01and we try to be excellent at everything from foreign coverage,

0:40:01 > 0:40:04to education coverage, to arts, to sports.

0:40:04 > 0:40:07You know, we're large, but there's not a lot of slack in the system.

0:40:07 > 0:40:10I feel some days that, you know,

0:40:10 > 0:40:14we should be symbolically wearing, you know, bloody butchers' smocks,

0:40:14 > 0:40:16or something, around the newsroom.

0:40:16 > 0:40:17It's such a...

0:40:17 > 0:40:19kind of...

0:40:19 > 0:40:22grim...undertaking.

0:40:23 > 0:40:27'I was hired in 1977.'

0:40:27 > 0:40:28When I was trying to get this job,

0:40:28 > 0:40:33a job getting focus group asked me to write my own obituary

0:40:33 > 0:40:38and since then, I've been the deputy editor of obituaries.

0:40:38 > 0:40:41Hey, it's Claiborne Ray, the departing retiring person.

0:40:41 > 0:40:44Should I come down through the freight elevator

0:40:44 > 0:40:46or through the regular passenger elevator?

0:40:46 > 0:40:51I came with the high hopes of staying for one year.

0:40:51 > 0:40:54I've overstayed that by 20 years.

0:40:57 > 0:41:00'We have to dump bodies overboard.'

0:41:00 > 0:41:02They don't really have any choice.

0:41:02 > 0:41:05We all got the packets in the mail.

0:41:05 > 0:41:09There's something obviously dispiriting about getting a packet in the mail

0:41:09 > 0:41:11that invites you to leave your job.

0:41:11 > 0:41:14I almost feel like I don't know of everything that's going on

0:41:14 > 0:41:17and I almost feel like I don't have a clear grasp

0:41:17 > 0:41:20on the enormity of the situation.

0:41:20 > 0:41:22'I decided not to press my luck.'

0:41:22 > 0:41:26Nobody knows if there'll be a paper on paper in another five years.

0:41:26 > 0:41:31Everybody is unbelievably pressured to do more than people are really humanly able to do.

0:41:33 > 0:41:36I'm sorry to leave The Times.

0:41:36 > 0:41:38There are a lot of unemployed people out there,

0:41:38 > 0:41:41a lot of underemployed people and a lot of scared people

0:41:41 > 0:41:44and I have to remind myself every day that I'm one of the lucky ones.

0:41:44 > 0:41:49The main effect is just this insecurity that pervades the newspaper business.

0:41:49 > 0:41:50The mood is so funereal.

0:41:54 > 0:41:56For those of us who work in media,

0:41:56 > 0:41:59life is a drumbeat of goodbye speeches

0:41:59 > 0:42:02with sheet cakes and cheap sparkling wine.

0:42:02 > 0:42:06That carnage has left behind an island of misfit toys,

0:42:06 > 0:42:11like model trains whose cabooses have square wheels.

0:42:11 > 0:42:13Sure, I've been fired in my day,

0:42:13 > 0:42:17but always after I'd failed to show up at work like a normal person.

0:42:17 > 0:42:20"Go to treatment," my editor at the magazine in Minneapolis would tell me,

0:42:20 > 0:42:23"There's a bed waiting for you."

0:42:23 > 0:42:24But at the tender age of 31,

0:42:24 > 0:42:27I still had a year left before hitting rock bottom,

0:42:27 > 0:42:31a year left of being that guy, the violent drug-snorting thug,

0:42:31 > 0:42:33before I found my way to this guy,

0:42:33 > 0:42:36the one with a family and a job at The New York Times.

0:42:36 > 0:42:40One day I came over from The Twin Cities Reader, where I worked,

0:42:40 > 0:42:45came over here to the Skyway Lounge and met my friend Phil.

0:42:45 > 0:42:49Phil gave me a film canister full of coke and I was going to get a gram.

0:42:49 > 0:42:51I went into the bathroom,

0:42:51 > 0:42:54the cop hit the stall door that I was in

0:42:54 > 0:42:57and said, "You roll a noisy joint, pal."

0:42:57 > 0:43:00And he immediately put me up against the wall

0:43:00 > 0:43:03and then walked me down the street this way

0:43:03 > 0:43:07and up the block toward Nicollet Mall where his car was parked.

0:43:07 > 0:43:12The interesting thing about that is that my father worked right in City Centre,

0:43:12 > 0:43:17so I was being crab-walked in handcuffs past the shopping,

0:43:17 > 0:43:20downtown shopping centre where my father worked.

0:43:20 > 0:43:23It was another life.

0:43:23 > 0:43:24It was another guy.

0:43:26 > 0:43:27It's that guy.

0:43:37 > 0:43:39Not very.

0:43:42 > 0:43:43Look...

0:43:43 > 0:43:46I'm afraid of guns...

0:43:46 > 0:43:49and I'm afraid of bats.

0:43:49 > 0:43:51I'm really not afraid of anything else.

0:43:51 > 0:43:54It's an advantage of having lived a textured life.

0:43:54 > 0:43:58I've been a single parent on welfare. This is nothing.

0:43:58 > 0:44:00I was talking to John Hume and he said,

0:44:00 > 0:44:02"Look, you didn't go to Afghanistan,

0:44:02 > 0:44:05"you didn't turn into the great city hall columnist

0:44:05 > 0:44:10"and you didn't set out to be a media reporter, but you are.

0:44:10 > 0:44:13"And your story has arrived...

0:44:13 > 0:44:17"and it behooves you to man up...

0:44:17 > 0:44:19"show some sack...

0:44:19 > 0:44:21"and cover it until it's done."

0:44:21 > 0:44:24And I thought, "You know what? That's what I'm going to do."

0:44:26 > 0:44:29Welcome, everyone, to another debate from Intelligence Squared.

0:44:29 > 0:44:31We'll be debating this motion:

0:44:34 > 0:44:36There will be winners and losers tonight

0:44:36 > 0:44:37and you, the audience, will be our judges.

0:44:37 > 0:44:40I work at The New York Times.

0:44:40 > 0:44:43We have 17 million people that come to our website,

0:44:43 > 0:44:47we put out 100 videos every month, we have 80 blogs -

0:44:47 > 0:44:49we are fully engaged in the revolution.

0:44:49 > 0:44:53The New York Times has dozens of bureaus all over the world

0:44:53 > 0:44:56and we're going to toss that out, which IS the proposition,

0:44:56 > 0:45:00toss that out...and kick back and see what Facebook turns up.

0:45:00 > 0:45:02LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

0:45:02 > 0:45:04I don't think so.

0:45:04 > 0:45:07What you're going to hear tonight

0:45:07 > 0:45:11is that the media is necessary for the commonweal.

0:45:11 > 0:45:16An informed citizenry is what this nation is about.

0:45:16 > 0:45:19That is self-serving crap.

0:45:20 > 0:45:25The New York Times is a good newspaper - sometimes.

0:45:25 > 0:45:28The Washington Post is a good newspaper.

0:45:28 > 0:45:31The LA Times, before it became a bad newspaper, was a good newspaper,

0:45:31 > 0:45:34but after that, it's off the cliff.

0:45:34 > 0:45:35It's oblivion.

0:45:35 > 0:45:40The news business in this country is nothing to be proud of.

0:45:40 > 0:45:43The media is a technology business.

0:45:43 > 0:45:46That's what is. That's what it has always been.

0:45:46 > 0:45:49Technology changes, the media changes.

0:45:49 > 0:45:54Over time, the audience has switched to the web.

0:45:54 > 0:45:57The audience that's worth a buck in print

0:45:57 > 0:46:01is worth a dime and sometimes a penny on the web

0:46:01 > 0:46:05because we end up competing oftentimes

0:46:05 > 0:46:07against our own work aggregated.

0:46:07 > 0:46:11Newser is a great-looking site and you might want to check it out.

0:46:11 > 0:46:15Aggregates all manner of content.

0:46:15 > 0:46:17But I wonder if Michael's really thought through,

0:46:17 > 0:46:20"Get rid of mainstream media content."

0:46:20 > 0:46:21OK.

0:46:21 > 0:46:22LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

0:46:22 > 0:46:24Go ahead.

0:46:31 > 0:46:33'There are a lot of websites,'

0:46:33 > 0:46:38the core of their being very often, not all of them, but some,

0:46:38 > 0:46:41is repurposed pieces by The Times...

0:46:41 > 0:46:44with a sexier headline or a bigger picture

0:46:44 > 0:46:48or bouncing off of Times reporting, commenting on Times reporting.

0:46:48 > 0:46:49Places like Gawker,

0:46:49 > 0:46:54they're going for what will feed that Googlebeast algorithm.

0:46:54 > 0:46:56They'll go to feed the hits.

0:46:56 > 0:47:00And how we build a really rich media environment

0:47:00 > 0:47:03where you don't lose coverage of statehouses,

0:47:03 > 0:47:05of Congress is a question.

0:47:17 > 0:47:21The big board is anathema to anyone at The Times

0:47:21 > 0:47:24or any other traditional daily newspaper.

0:47:24 > 0:47:27It's a list of 10 stories from our sites

0:47:27 > 0:47:29on a big television screen,

0:47:29 > 0:47:33which are at that very moment getting the most buzz,

0:47:33 > 0:47:36being distributed and passed around on the web.

0:47:36 > 0:47:39It's our equivalent of the front page.

0:47:39 > 0:47:41It's the most visible manifestation of a writer's success.

0:47:41 > 0:47:46We've always been very much focused on stories that our readers want.

0:47:46 > 0:47:47We're not trying to force-feed them,

0:47:47 > 0:47:49we're trying to give them what they want.

0:47:49 > 0:47:54I have a friend who's at the Albany bureau of The Times.

0:47:54 > 0:47:58I told him about the big board, sent him a picture of it

0:47:58 > 0:48:00and, "How do you like our new innovation?"

0:48:00 > 0:48:02He was terrified.

0:48:02 > 0:48:03Albany corruption stories

0:48:03 > 0:48:07they may be important to cover, but no-one really wants to read them.

0:48:07 > 0:48:09The future is to be found elsewhere.

0:48:09 > 0:48:14It's a linked economy, it's search engines, it's online advertising,

0:48:14 > 0:48:15it's citizen journalism,

0:48:15 > 0:48:17and if you can't find your way to that,

0:48:17 > 0:48:20then you just can't find your way.

0:48:20 > 0:48:22There's nobody covering the cop shop,

0:48:22 > 0:48:24nobody covering the zoning board.

0:48:24 > 0:48:26The day I run into a Huffington Post reporter

0:48:26 > 0:48:29at a Baltimore zoning board hearing is the day that I will...

0:48:29 > 0:48:32I was not around when the printing press was invented,

0:48:32 > 0:48:37but if I were around I would imagine that the people dealing with stone tablets

0:48:37 > 0:48:39would be making a similar argument.

0:48:39 > 0:48:43There's no way that I can think of that you can have a BUSINESS MODEL,

0:48:43 > 0:48:47you know, one that makes a profit for investigative reporting.

0:48:52 > 0:48:55'ProPublica, a very interesting model.'

0:48:55 > 0:48:58Part of its formula is pairing with legacy media

0:48:58 > 0:49:02to get its information out in the most effective way.

0:49:02 > 0:49:04Everything we do goes on our website,

0:49:04 > 0:49:08but for our biggest stories, we get a CNN, a 60 Minutes,

0:49:08 > 0:49:11a New York Times to work with us.

0:49:12 > 0:49:15You know, I was 25, 26 years at The Journal,

0:49:15 > 0:49:18we were absolutely rolling in money.

0:49:18 > 0:49:21Why should you open yourself to some story

0:49:21 > 0:49:23that you didn't know where it had been?

0:49:23 > 0:49:25Who knows what kind of germs that had gotten on it?

0:49:25 > 0:49:28People are open to new ways of working

0:49:28 > 0:49:30because the world has changed.

0:49:30 > 0:49:32There's a hybrid model here

0:49:32 > 0:49:34and I do think journalism is a public good

0:49:34 > 0:49:39and if it's a public good, then that requires a whole new mindset

0:49:39 > 0:49:42about how you support journalism.

0:49:42 > 0:49:461,000 bloggers all talking to each other

0:49:46 > 0:49:49doesn't get you a report from a war zone.

0:49:49 > 0:49:50Somebody's gotta take a real risk.

0:49:50 > 0:49:53There's gotta be some infrastructure and some pay,

0:49:53 > 0:49:57and they've gotta go and gather that news originally.

0:49:59 > 0:50:02A lot of the people in the Baghdad bureau were moving to Kabul

0:50:02 > 0:50:06and they asked if there was anybody who wanted to volunteer for Baghdad,

0:50:06 > 0:50:08and so I'm going to Iraq.

0:50:10 > 0:50:12He's done all these stories on media companies

0:50:12 > 0:50:15and, you know, capital cases and death row

0:50:15 > 0:50:18and Tim is just one of the guys who wants answers to really basic questions

0:50:18 > 0:50:22and I think once you've got that you're curious about all kinds of things.

0:50:22 > 0:50:25Iraq is kind of off people's radar screens here,

0:50:25 > 0:50:29but we still have 120,000 soldiers there and it's a real crucial point

0:50:29 > 0:50:34in terms of seeing what the last chapter is for our country there.

0:50:39 > 0:50:40The locals who have worked for us,

0:50:40 > 0:50:42some have been killed and kidnapped and,

0:50:42 > 0:50:45and, yeah, I worry about that.

0:50:45 > 0:50:48But that's something he wants to do and...

0:50:49 > 0:50:51You know...

0:50:51 > 0:50:53kind of just hope he'll be OK.

0:50:59 > 0:51:02Cheers, to your good health.

0:51:02 > 0:51:04Did they tell you what they want you to do?

0:51:04 > 0:51:09I mean, there's no beats, it's just do the day's stories and...

0:51:09 > 0:51:12settle in with the Iraqi staff and write stories, you know.

0:51:12 > 0:51:14For the beginning, it's going to be the election.

0:51:14 > 0:51:16You had covered a bunch of other conflicts, right?

0:51:16 > 0:51:18Civil wars and conflicts in Africa.

0:51:18 > 0:51:20Somalia, a lot of time in Somalia.

0:51:20 > 0:51:23I did a tour in Yugoslavia when all that was going on.

0:51:23 > 0:51:24Oh, really?

0:51:24 > 0:51:26The only advice they give is just fall into this well-run machine

0:51:26 > 0:51:29that's been going on for seven years and you'll figure it out.

0:51:29 > 0:51:33As you may well know, I expect you to be on TV in a week,

0:51:33 > 0:51:35"Those of us who have been covering this for a while."

0:51:35 > 0:51:39"Those of us who have been here for two days think..."

0:52:00 > 0:52:03Been a privilege to work with you. Come back real soon.

0:52:03 > 0:52:06- Thanks for the kind words. - Cheers!- Stay safe.

0:52:23 > 0:52:27It is a history, it is an enormous compendium of material

0:52:27 > 0:52:31that will affect many different people in different ways.

0:52:31 > 0:52:32There has been a massive leak.

0:52:32 > 0:52:36There are so many pages of military secrets now public.

0:52:36 > 0:52:41Some of the documents rip the cover off the US-led war effort in Afghanistan.

0:52:41 > 0:52:44Unexplained American deaths, questionable battlefield tactics

0:52:44 > 0:52:47and a mission just not going that well.

0:52:47 > 0:52:51'WikiLeaks released 91,000 raw military documents online,

0:52:51 > 0:52:54'but this time also to three traditional news organisations

0:52:54 > 0:52:57'including The New York Times, which vetted the material,

0:52:57 > 0:53:00'it said, eliminating information that could put lives at risk.'

0:53:00 > 0:53:02Well, I think it was an important moment

0:53:02 > 0:53:05that WikiLeaks chose to go through the Guardian, Der Spiegel

0:53:05 > 0:53:07and The New York Times.

0:53:07 > 0:53:10In a sense they were detoxifying the information that they had,

0:53:10 > 0:53:14and they were giving it a little more veracity.

0:53:14 > 0:53:16What Julian Assange realised

0:53:16 > 0:53:20is that going through The Times, and Spiegel, and the Guardian

0:53:20 > 0:53:23would actually have a greater impact. He was right.

0:53:23 > 0:53:26We, as a journalistic group,

0:53:26 > 0:53:28the four media groups who worked on this,

0:53:28 > 0:53:30have really only just scratched the surface.

0:53:36 > 0:53:39We've treated them as an advocacy organisation,

0:53:39 > 0:53:42but we're partnered with them.

0:53:42 > 0:53:43Are we partnered?

0:53:43 > 0:53:45I think they're a source.

0:53:45 > 0:53:47But they're a publisher.

0:53:47 > 0:53:50I think they're more like a source than, well, you're right.

0:53:50 > 0:53:52He's not our media partner. He's not our collaborator.

0:53:52 > 0:53:56He's a source like any other source giving us access to documents.

0:53:56 > 0:53:58They can be a source when they're a publisher.

0:53:58 > 0:53:59I think that's very clear.

0:53:59 > 0:54:02- We're all in this together.- But you wonder about the negotiations,

0:54:02 > 0:54:04when they come and say, "You can have this,

0:54:04 > 0:54:08"but we're going to give it to other papers, and you guys are all going to hold hands."

0:54:08 > 0:54:12Where we say, "But we are The New York Times," and they say,

0:54:12 > 0:54:15"But we have all this and we are dictating terms."

0:54:15 > 0:54:17You can say that and then can you turn around and say,

0:54:17 > 0:54:20"By the way, The New York Times never should have done this"?

0:54:20 > 0:54:24I really am appalled by the leak, condemn the leak.

0:54:24 > 0:54:28There is potential there to put American lives at risk.

0:54:28 > 0:54:31Do you believe there should be an investigation into whether The New York Times broke laws?

0:54:31 > 0:54:35I'm not calling for prosecution of The Times,

0:54:35 > 0:54:38but I think they're guilty of bad citizenship.

0:54:38 > 0:54:42The basic calculus that you try to do in your head

0:54:42 > 0:54:45is the trade-off between the obligation, really,

0:54:45 > 0:54:48to give people information about how they're being governed

0:54:48 > 0:54:50and on the other hand, the...

0:54:50 > 0:54:54government's legitimate need for secrecy.

0:54:54 > 0:54:57I've had a dozen of these instances

0:54:57 > 0:54:59where we had classified information

0:54:59 > 0:55:02and had to decide whether or not to publish it

0:55:02 > 0:55:05or publish it with some parts of it withheld.

0:55:05 > 0:55:09Officials at the White House asked us to communicate to WikiLeaks

0:55:09 > 0:55:13their strong exhortation that WikiLeaks redact the documents

0:55:13 > 0:55:17and take out the names of people who might be identified and put in danger.

0:55:17 > 0:55:19And we passed that along.

0:55:19 > 0:55:22The oddest thing in the story, you saw, was that The Times said

0:55:22 > 0:55:25that the White House asked them to lobby WikiLeaks not to print things.

0:55:25 > 0:55:28- Yes.- Which is really odd. - Like, "You're the White House, can't you call WikiLeaks?"

0:55:28 > 0:55:30But also we're The New York Times...

0:55:30 > 0:55:32"It's 1,800 WikiLeaks."

0:55:41 > 0:55:44'The supposedly private cables detail everything,

0:55:44 > 0:55:47'from security threats to diplomatic dirty laundry.

0:55:47 > 0:55:50'There are unflattering views of key allies...'

0:55:50 > 0:55:53'It's the largest release of diplomatic correspondence ever...'

0:55:53 > 0:55:56'From highly encrypted telegrams to email messages,

0:55:56 > 0:56:00'to raw, unfiltered analysis from embassies and consulates...'

0:56:01 > 0:56:06I'm still getting messages from people who think that I'm a treasonous son of a bitch

0:56:06 > 0:56:08and I'm getting some from people

0:56:08 > 0:56:11who think that Julian Assange is the messiah

0:56:11 > 0:56:14and why did I not treat him as such?

0:56:14 > 0:56:18Many of the media outlets who had been partnered with WikiLeaks

0:56:18 > 0:56:21now find themselves trying to figure out

0:56:21 > 0:56:26whether this guy is a villain or a hero.

0:56:26 > 0:56:29It would be great if people got past the debate over WikiLeaks

0:56:29 > 0:56:31and the disclosures, and looked closely at what these are,

0:56:31 > 0:56:37which is a real-time history of the US relationship with some very important countries.

0:56:37 > 0:56:39It is one of the biggest journalistic scoops

0:56:39 > 0:56:40in the past 30 years

0:56:40 > 0:56:43and the fact that The Times made it their front page for weeks

0:56:43 > 0:56:48shows that, even as all these papers are becoming a shadow of their former selves,

0:56:48 > 0:56:51The Times is still in the game

0:56:51 > 0:56:53and very much leading the game at this point.

0:56:53 > 0:56:57'Maybe newspapers are going to have to supplement using WikiLeaks to get their news.

0:56:57 > 0:56:59'It's unclear what the model is,'

0:56:59 > 0:57:02but I think it's a sign though of openness at the paper

0:57:02 > 0:57:04that there are many more sources.

0:57:04 > 0:57:06In a lot of ways it's a very positive step,

0:57:06 > 0:57:10even though it definitely is coming at the cost of a contracting traditional newsroom.

0:57:10 > 0:57:12Like the Chinese say, it's a very interesting time.

0:57:12 > 0:57:14It's kind of a curse, but it's also a blessing.

0:57:14 > 0:57:16Especially if you're a journalist,

0:57:16 > 0:57:18you should want there to be interesting things going on,

0:57:18 > 0:57:21even if it is also a curse.

0:57:23 > 0:57:25New York Times.

0:57:25 > 0:57:27Get your New York Times!

0:57:27 > 0:57:29Come on, check it out. Check it out.

0:57:29 > 0:57:31Good morning, New York Times?

0:57:31 > 0:57:34New York Times, 2.

0:57:34 > 0:57:38The New York Times announced today that it's going to start charging for access to its website.

0:57:38 > 0:57:40The system they're going to adopt says

0:57:40 > 0:57:43anybody who comes to the site who's not a paying subscriber

0:57:43 > 0:57:45can look at X number of articles free

0:57:45 > 0:57:48and then when you reach X+1 you'll get a message saying

0:57:48 > 0:57:50if you want to keep going, you've got to pay.

0:57:50 > 0:57:55The design of The Times pay wall comes THIS close to the NPR model,

0:57:55 > 0:57:57which is to go to the people who care most about The Times

0:57:57 > 0:58:01and say, "You and us, we're partners. We're keeping this thing afloat."

0:58:01 > 0:58:03"As of today you've lost a daily reader.

0:58:03 > 0:58:07"If they start charging, I'll change this away from my homepage."

0:58:07 > 0:58:09This was a college friend of mine.

0:58:09 > 0:58:11"I want to pay, but I'm not willing to pay

0:58:11 > 0:58:13"for information I can easily find elsewhere.

0:58:13 > 0:58:16"Sorry, New York Times, freedom of information."

0:58:16 > 0:58:19I worry about people like that who have grown up...

0:58:19 > 0:58:21in that era where everything was free,

0:58:21 > 0:58:25or everything SEEMED free. It's never free, but...

0:58:25 > 0:58:27The economics of this business have always been that

0:58:27 > 0:58:31it required both advertising and payment from the reader

0:58:31 > 0:58:33and for the last 15 years on the internet,

0:58:33 > 0:58:36we've sort of pretended that that wasn't true.

0:58:36 > 0:58:37This is the end of pretending.

0:58:37 > 0:58:40They find it through you, they click through, through you,

0:58:40 > 0:58:44they come up with the story, which is currently free.

0:58:44 > 0:58:46So they're still not getting paid for it.

0:58:46 > 0:58:49There's usually advertisements on the page when they land there.

0:58:49 > 0:58:53In many cases, I don't think they're getting that advertising revenue

0:58:53 > 0:58:57and it certainly isn't covering the cost of doing business.

0:58:57 > 0:59:00My view is that it's still very early and that...

0:59:00 > 0:59:04When you say it's early, it's not early for The Denver Post or The Seattle Intelligencer,

0:59:04 > 0:59:06or a bunch of folks who are facing bankruptcy today.

0:59:06 > 0:59:09Information historically was not free.

0:59:09 > 0:59:11You had to pay for it in one way or another.

0:59:11 > 0:59:13I think what The Times says,

0:59:13 > 0:59:18"This is what it's worth to read our newspaper every month,"

0:59:18 > 0:59:21will go a long way to establishing what people feel they can charge,

0:59:21 > 0:59:22or maybe what they can't charge.

0:59:22 > 0:59:25It's actually kind of a big day in the newspaper business

0:59:25 > 0:59:27and some people may date this,

0:59:27 > 0:59:31you know, this is the day the whole thing died. We'll find out.

0:59:31 > 0:59:32People who make prescriptions,

0:59:32 > 0:59:34"They should go do a pay wall, not do a pay wall,

0:59:34 > 0:59:37"put it all on iPad, kill the paper product," they're being naive.

0:59:37 > 0:59:39They have no idea about

0:59:39 > 0:59:42the economics of running a legacy print newspaper business

0:59:42 > 0:59:44and trying to build an online news business.

0:59:44 > 0:59:48You better hope they figure it out because you got like 40 years to go.

0:59:48 > 0:59:52Whereas if we got our heads chopped off...

0:59:52 > 0:59:56we only have to figure out, what, 15 more years?

0:59:56 > 0:59:57Well, fuck that!

0:59:57 > 0:59:58THEY LAUGH

0:59:58 > 1:00:02I think I got a lot longer to go than that.

1:00:02 > 1:00:04- Really?!- My working life or my life or my life life?

1:00:04 > 1:00:07- How old are you?- 46.

1:00:08 > 1:00:12Somebody's going to tap you on the shoulder here at 62, 63,

1:00:12 > 1:00:15and say, "That was great.

1:00:15 > 1:00:17"Thanks a lot. Your sheet cake's over there."

1:00:17 > 1:00:21- "Turn in your tablet." - Turn in your tablet.

1:00:21 > 1:00:23We call it...

1:00:23 > 1:00:24the iPad.

1:00:24 > 1:00:26APPLAUSE

1:00:28 > 1:00:30I got a glimpse of the future

1:00:30 > 1:00:33this last weekend with the iPad.

1:00:33 > 1:00:38It may well be, you know, the saving of the newspaper industry.

1:00:38 > 1:00:40Even if the cost is the end of newspapers as we know it?

1:00:40 > 1:00:44Well, it's better than them going out of business altogether.

1:00:44 > 1:00:46Why are media companies so excited about a tablet?

1:00:46 > 1:00:49Well, they see it as this, they see it as that.

1:00:49 > 1:00:51And then the question becomes, well,

1:00:51 > 1:00:53lots of people think Apple saved the music business.

1:00:53 > 1:00:56But they didn't save it on the music business's terms.

1:00:56 > 1:01:00Lots of people in the music business say it's punishing dealing with those guys.

1:01:00 > 1:01:04Like, "Yeah, they're my best friend. See this? It's a leash."

1:01:04 > 1:01:07What makes anybody think it'll be different for publishers?

1:01:07 > 1:01:10That's why I wonder if we'll end up screwing ourselves.

1:01:11 > 1:01:14CROWD: ..Six, five, four, three,

1:01:14 > 1:01:15two, one.

1:01:15 > 1:01:18CHEERING

1:01:26 > 1:01:30It's amazing to be able to cover this, cos I think in five years,

1:01:30 > 1:01:33this could be, like, how computers are.

1:01:33 > 1:01:38But it's a little bit scary down there, actually. I'm walking out and people are like, "Congratulations!"

1:01:38 > 1:01:41It's like I just had a kid or I just had twins or something.

1:01:41 > 1:01:45You know, I just bought a... I just bought a computer.

1:01:45 > 1:01:47Is that a bridge to the future?

1:01:47 > 1:01:50Or...oh, wait, it's a gallows!

1:01:50 > 1:01:51Ow!

1:01:53 > 1:01:56Right there's the dream come true.

1:02:00 > 1:02:02Let's see you navigate. Mm, sweet.

1:02:02 > 1:02:05That is a great reading experience right there.

1:02:05 > 1:02:09- You know what it reminds me of? - What?- A newspaper.

1:02:09 > 1:02:13People including me are probably silly to think, you know,

1:02:13 > 1:02:15Steve Jobs is riding over the hill like cavalry

1:02:15 > 1:02:18to save the media industry.

1:02:18 > 1:02:20He's driving Apple's stock price.

1:02:20 > 1:02:23And we may have business in common.

1:02:23 > 1:02:27And that Venn diagram of interests is their interests versus our interests.

1:02:27 > 1:02:29That's sort of where the story is.

1:02:45 > 1:02:48I have a lot of great background conversations,

1:02:48 > 1:02:50but I've got to move people onto the record.

1:02:50 > 1:02:52Think of what you might be able to say to me.

1:02:52 > 1:02:55All right, man. Thanks. Bye-bye.

1:03:01 > 1:03:04You know, you could say being at The New York Times

1:03:04 > 1:03:06is a big advantage.

1:03:06 > 1:03:09You know, it kinda scares people when you call them.

1:03:10 > 1:03:14And I also think I sound sort of weird on the phone.

1:03:14 > 1:03:17And it's like...

1:03:17 > 1:03:19Well, do you have time to talk to me?

1:03:20 > 1:03:22Great.

1:03:22 > 1:03:25Um, how long did you work at the Trib?

1:03:27 > 1:03:29It's a big story that hasn't really been told

1:03:29 > 1:03:31in this kind of comprehensive way.

1:03:31 > 1:03:34The biggest media bankruptcy in history,

1:03:34 > 1:03:37billions and billions of dollars just evaporated,

1:03:37 > 1:03:38a lot of people lost their jobs.

1:03:38 > 1:03:42The people there are still doing, you know, excellent work,

1:03:42 > 1:03:45but it's under very difficult circumstances

1:03:45 > 1:03:49from people who manifestly do not respect what they do.

1:03:52 > 1:03:55Sam Zell, when he came in, was somebody

1:03:55 > 1:03:58with no experience running a company like this.

1:03:58 > 1:04:00No news experience. In fact, a fair bit of contempt

1:04:00 > 1:04:03for sort of traditional ideas of journalism.

1:04:05 > 1:04:07My attitude on journalism is very simple.

1:04:07 > 1:04:10I want to make enough money so I can afford you.

1:04:10 > 1:04:15It's really that simple, OK? You need to in effect help me

1:04:15 > 1:04:19by being a journalist that focuses on what our readers want.

1:04:24 > 1:04:25I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

1:04:25 > 1:04:29I can't, you know, you're giving me the classic

1:04:29 > 1:04:32what I would call journalistic arrogance.

1:04:32 > 1:04:34You know, people inside just get dispirited

1:04:34 > 1:04:37because the company's being run by these people

1:04:37 > 1:04:39who just don't share their values.

1:04:39 > 1:04:41Hopefully we get to the point where our revenue

1:04:41 > 1:04:45is so significant that we can do puppies and Iraq, OK?

1:04:45 > 1:04:48APPLAUSE

1:04:49 > 1:04:52Sam Zell wanted to put Randy Michaels, whom he knew

1:04:52 > 1:04:55from the radio business, in charge of Tribune Company.

1:04:55 > 1:04:58Michaels came in, and one of the first things he worked on

1:04:58 > 1:05:00was rewriting the company's ethics policy

1:05:00 > 1:05:04to basically say, "We're going to be in a much more permissive atmosphere,

1:05:04 > 1:05:08"and it's going to be creative and there'll be things that offend you."

1:05:08 > 1:05:11You know what's important to those who buy advertising?

1:05:11 > 1:05:14Not the agencies, but the people who write the cheques.

1:05:14 > 1:05:17They want to move product. They want the cash register to ring.

1:05:17 > 1:05:18They want butts in seats.

1:05:18 > 1:05:21Some people are like, "We need something,

1:05:21 > 1:05:23"so this could be as good as any."

1:05:23 > 1:05:24I mean, it's a kind of...

1:05:24 > 1:05:27you know, it's a sort of crazy Hail Mary pass.

1:05:27 > 1:05:29So these guys come in, bought the company.

1:05:29 > 1:05:32This is how they behaved. This is the result.

1:05:32 > 1:05:35This company, they drove it into bankruptcy.

1:05:35 > 1:05:38Randy Michaels and a handpicked crew of 20 people

1:05:38 > 1:05:41who he's known a long, long time, have extracted

1:05:41 > 1:05:43something like 100 million in bonuses.

1:05:43 > 1:05:47You could call that incentives or you could call that looting,

1:05:47 > 1:05:49depending on your perspective.

1:05:50 > 1:05:52Yeah, let's just quit typing altogether

1:05:52 > 1:05:55and just talk us girls for a minute.

1:05:55 > 1:05:58I have certain memos about behaviour of the executives there,

1:05:58 > 1:06:00and I just want to make sure that they're true.

1:06:00 > 1:06:04In this memo that was sent to the board,

1:06:04 > 1:06:07there's an incident described where Randy Michaels

1:06:07 > 1:06:12"talked openly and loudly about other women's breasts, sex toys...

1:06:12 > 1:06:15"not just in closed rooms with other executives, but openly..."

1:06:15 > 1:06:18"He wrote the employee handbook so that kind of talk

1:06:18 > 1:06:23"wasn't against the rules." Does that all sound right?

1:06:23 > 1:06:25I was mostly doing the bankruptcy stuff,

1:06:25 > 1:06:27and then I saw those poker pictures

1:06:27 > 1:06:31and I thought "It seems more like a radio station in the 1970s

1:06:31 > 1:06:33"than a great big media company."

1:06:36 > 1:06:38LAUGHTER

1:06:38 > 1:06:40Don't you think that would sell?

1:06:41 > 1:06:43So I cold-called a person from Trib Co,

1:06:43 > 1:06:46and he lays them out flat -

1:06:46 > 1:06:50who they were, what they did, etc, all on the record. My first of that.

1:06:50 > 1:06:54- Yeah.- I'm doing two more weeks of reporting, and then I'm going to take a week

1:06:54 > 1:06:55to write it and show it to you.

1:07:06 > 1:07:10Tonight at 6.30, NBC will be driving in the convoy

1:07:10 > 1:07:13with the last combat troops as they cross back into Kuwait.

1:07:13 > 1:07:15I don't think we know much about it.

1:07:15 > 1:07:18We're not on the embed, partly because we think it's a PR stunt.

1:07:18 > 1:07:20What do you make of the notion

1:07:20 > 1:07:22that they're trying to choreograph an exit here?

1:07:22 > 1:07:25In my mind, it'd be easy just to fly these trucks out.

1:07:25 > 1:07:27They've been flying trucks out for months.

1:07:27 > 1:07:30But the fact that they want to drive across the desert

1:07:30 > 1:07:33and bring reporters with them, what does that indicate to you?

1:07:52 > 1:07:54That's perfect.

1:07:58 > 1:08:02So let's get started, please, with media.

1:08:02 > 1:08:04The final fighting brigade

1:08:04 > 1:08:06in the war is going to be crossing the border

1:08:06 > 1:08:08into Kuwait, as I understand it,

1:08:08 > 1:08:11and there's embeds with The Washington Post there,

1:08:11 > 1:08:16the LA Times, NBC. We're watching to see if this is some sort of end of the war as we know it.

1:08:17 > 1:08:19But it's complicated.

1:08:19 > 1:08:21If this is just some photo op,

1:08:21 > 1:08:24I get no sense that this is coming from the administration

1:08:24 > 1:08:27or that it's coming from, you know, the military.

1:08:27 > 1:08:31It just seems to be...so far, I get the sense it's only coming from NBC

1:08:31 > 1:08:34and the other embeds.

1:08:46 > 1:08:49What we won't be able to predict, obviously, is what the Post

1:08:49 > 1:08:52- and the LA Times will be doing with it.- Right.

1:08:52 > 1:08:55Is anybody - is the White House, is the military -

1:08:55 > 1:08:58who is saying this is the end of combat troops in Iraq?

1:08:58 > 1:09:02NBC is saying that the military will say that.

1:09:02 > 1:09:04They are saying, NBC is saying they will declare it.

1:09:04 > 1:09:08In other words, NBC will declare it tonight.

1:09:08 > 1:09:12- As far as I know, NBC isn't actually at war in the Middle East.- I know.

1:09:12 > 1:09:13But how come...

1:09:13 > 1:09:18- That's why the White House sent their email.- Have I seen this anywhere?- No, it's under embargo.

1:09:18 > 1:09:21It's secret. We're not allowed to talk about it.

1:09:21 > 1:09:23- When does the embargo break? - Hopefully 6.30.

1:09:23 > 1:09:25OK, guys, thank you very much.

1:09:25 > 1:09:28OK, bye-bye.

1:09:35 > 1:09:40Good evening. It's gone on longer than the Civil War, longer than World War II.

1:09:40 > 1:09:43Tonight, US combat troops are pulling out of Iraq.

1:09:43 > 1:09:46Richard, I understand that your reporting of this

1:09:46 > 1:09:48at this hour tonight constitutes

1:09:48 > 1:09:50the official Pentagon announcement, correct?

1:09:50 > 1:09:55Yes, it is. Right now, we are with the last American combat troops.

1:09:55 > 1:09:56We are with the...

1:09:59 > 1:10:03- Did you watch NBC?- Yeah. - I thought it was hallucinatory.

1:10:03 > 1:10:07Brian Williams says to Richard Engel "Your report here from the field

1:10:07 > 1:10:10"amounts to the official Pentagon announcement

1:10:10 > 1:10:12"of the end of combat troops in Iraq."

1:10:12 > 1:10:15And there is no Pentagon announcement.

1:10:15 > 1:10:18I mean, I'm going over territory you already know.

1:10:18 > 1:10:21But let me back up. We're trying to figure out if...

1:10:21 > 1:10:24I don't know that there was... I'm not trying to be difficult.

1:10:24 > 1:10:26Was there some sort of official...?

1:10:26 > 1:10:29Thom Shanker in Washington is right now calling the Pentagon again.

1:10:29 > 1:10:32If I weren't thinking about this every day,

1:10:32 > 1:10:35I would look at this and think, "What just happened?"

1:10:35 > 1:10:38- I mean...- You would think, "Is the war over and I missed it?"- Yeah.

1:10:38 > 1:10:43We heard from Shanker, who talked to the Pentagon, and he said there was no official anything today.

1:10:43 > 1:10:46- What's going on?- If you were watching NBC Nightly News,

1:10:46 > 1:10:48you'd have thought there was a big ceremony

1:10:48 > 1:10:51of some kind to commemorate the final end of combat operations.

1:10:51 > 1:10:52PHONE RINGS

1:10:52 > 1:10:55- That's news to the Pentagon. - Hi, it's Ian.

1:10:55 > 1:10:59Did Thom specifically ask the Pentagon guy, "Did you see NBC?"

1:10:59 > 1:11:02This is making everyone here completely insane.

1:11:02 > 1:11:05Look, I mean we could do the "there was a made for TV" moment.

1:11:05 > 1:11:09I don't know whether we even need to... I'll leave that to you.

1:11:09 > 1:11:12But I'm not sure it even wants to turn the knife a little bit.

1:11:12 > 1:11:16The Pentagon or somebody's calling this mission, that is the mission

1:11:16 > 1:11:19to drive across the border, "The Last Patrol".

1:11:19 > 1:11:20So there's something going on.

1:11:24 > 1:11:27The White House has been fucking saying it's at the end of the month.

1:11:27 > 1:11:32"The White House spokesman immediately sent an email saying it's at the end of the month."

1:11:32 > 1:11:35How do you cover the end of a war that's not ending?

1:11:35 > 1:11:37- Right, exactly. - I mean, even wars that end badly

1:11:37 > 1:11:40end up with, like, helicopters leaving the Saigon roof.

1:11:40 > 1:11:42This isn't even going to be that.

1:11:42 > 1:11:45I think that story should be written. I do. I think you're right.

1:11:45 > 1:11:47I don't think tonight is the night to write it.

1:11:47 > 1:11:49Let me start to get something ready,

1:11:49 > 1:11:51and let's talk again in half an hour.

1:11:53 > 1:11:57So I think we're all standing around trying to figure out

1:11:57 > 1:11:59whether this is a real story or a media story,

1:11:59 > 1:12:02which isn't very flattering to media reporters, is it?

1:12:02 > 1:12:05"Stand down, we think it's actually something happening."

1:12:05 > 1:12:08No, we're not going to write anything.

1:12:08 > 1:12:10There's still 56,000 in Iraq,

1:12:10 > 1:12:14and the AP notes correctly that all of them are combat troops

1:12:14 > 1:12:16until they're redesignated otherwise,

1:12:16 > 1:12:18which hasn't actually happened.

1:12:18 > 1:12:20I'm only wondering if...

1:12:20 > 1:12:24are our betters going to come in tomorrow and say,

1:12:24 > 1:12:26"Gee, everybody covered this but us"?

1:12:26 > 1:12:28Uh, there appears to be no indication that way.

1:12:28 > 1:12:30All right. Good.

1:12:30 > 1:12:32So I think we're all right.

1:12:32 > 1:12:36I'm going to wear my combat helmet just in case.

1:12:36 > 1:12:42The function of reporting and the press is the best obtainable version of the truth.

1:12:42 > 1:12:44We're not out there

1:12:44 > 1:12:47to bring down governments. We're not out there to be prosecutors.

1:12:47 > 1:12:50We're out there to be judicious, not judicial.

1:12:50 > 1:12:54And that's really what happened in Watergate.

1:12:54 > 1:12:58In recent months, members of my administration

1:12:58 > 1:13:00have been charged with involvement

1:13:00 > 1:13:03in what has come to be known as the Watergate Affair.

1:13:03 > 1:13:05We began covering the Watergate story

1:13:05 > 1:13:08the day after there was a break-in at Democratic headquarters,

1:13:08 > 1:13:11and we continued to cover it for more than two years.

1:13:11 > 1:13:13In the first year,

1:13:13 > 1:13:16we wrote more than 100 stories.

1:13:16 > 1:13:18The story was not one dam breaking.

1:13:18 > 1:13:20It was story after story after story, and it was

1:13:20 > 1:13:23pretty much owned by The Washington Post.

1:13:23 > 1:13:25REPORTER: In the House of Representatives,

1:13:25 > 1:13:29there is no member left who thinks the President won't be impeached.

1:13:29 > 1:13:32It really pains me to say it. I grew up with The Washington Post,

1:13:32 > 1:13:38and you can't say that the diminishment of that paper,

1:13:38 > 1:13:40in terms of its scale of its staff

1:13:40 > 1:13:42and its ambitions, haven't affected it.

1:13:42 > 1:13:46You'd be kidding yourself to say it's just trimmed some fat.

1:13:46 > 1:13:49No, economic circumstances have made it a lesser paper.

1:13:49 > 1:13:52If that were to happen to The New York Times,

1:13:52 > 1:13:55that would be a terrible tragedy.

1:13:59 > 1:14:01You know, I get the Twitter feeds

1:14:01 > 1:14:03and read the blogs about how media

1:14:03 > 1:14:07will or won't fare in the digital age.

1:14:07 > 1:14:10But sometimes they seem to have it all boiled down to an aphorism.

1:14:10 > 1:14:14I'm not sure that I can boil it all down to a sort of "a-ha".

1:14:15 > 1:14:16But I do think

1:14:16 > 1:14:18there's a growing sense

1:14:18 > 1:14:21of how much it would matter if The Times weren't here.

1:14:21 > 1:14:24News organisations that deploy resources

1:14:24 > 1:14:26to really gather information are essential

1:14:26 > 1:14:28to a functioning democracy.

1:14:28 > 1:14:31It just...it just doesn't work if people don't know.

1:14:33 > 1:14:36When you read The New York Times today,

1:14:36 > 1:14:38in the business section, you will see

1:14:38 > 1:14:41the obituary of the newspaper industry.

1:14:41 > 1:14:44Jesus, what a bunch of pussies!

1:14:44 > 1:14:45I'm not a newspaper guy.

1:14:46 > 1:14:48I'm a businessman.

1:14:54 > 1:14:56It's really important to remember

1:14:56 > 1:15:00that the consequences of this bankruptcy did not just fall

1:15:00 > 1:15:03on the employees at the Tribune Company.

1:15:03 > 1:15:07In Los Angeles, in Chicago, in Hartford, in Baltimore,

1:15:07 > 1:15:11the diminution of those newspapers crippled or destroyed

1:15:11 > 1:15:14important community civic assets.

1:15:15 > 1:15:19Well, it's going to be a pretty rugged story

1:15:19 > 1:15:21and I want it to be fair,

1:15:21 > 1:15:25which is why I'm calling you. I mean,

1:15:25 > 1:15:28if you want me to characterise the overall story, what I would say

1:15:28 > 1:15:31is that this was an overleveraged company

1:15:31 > 1:15:33that Mr Zell operated into bankruptcy,

1:15:33 > 1:15:37handed this kind of flaming baton off to Mr Michaels.

1:15:37 > 1:15:39Michaels brought in

1:15:39 > 1:15:43guys from his career in radio to help them out.

1:15:43 > 1:15:46Overall, a lot of people lost a lot of money.

1:15:46 > 1:15:49Employees are out of contributions.

1:15:49 > 1:15:52'This sounds like it's going to be a top to bottom hatchet job.'

1:15:52 > 1:15:56Where is the hatchet? I don't...

1:15:56 > 1:16:01if there's a counter-narrative, um, I'm happy to talk about it.

1:16:01 > 1:16:05If there's a heroic narrative, I'm happy to talk about it.

1:16:05 > 1:16:09We haven't even gotten into the cultural issues,

1:16:09 > 1:16:11which I'm sure are not going to please you much at all.

1:16:11 > 1:16:14Let's cut to something a little more hard and fast.

1:16:14 > 1:16:16On December 11th, 2008,

1:16:16 > 1:16:20your board received a letter, it was anonymous,

1:16:20 > 1:16:23alleging a broad pattern of sexual harassment.

1:16:23 > 1:16:28- BLEEP- had received oral sex on the 22nd floor balcony.

1:16:28 > 1:16:32- She also added that in a meeting, - BLEEP- suggested

1:16:32 > 1:16:36that her assistant come in and perform a sexual act on him

1:16:36 > 1:16:38to cheer him up.

1:16:38 > 1:16:44This is not 1977. This is 2010, and those kinds of things

1:16:44 > 1:16:47are material for the people that work there.

1:16:47 > 1:16:50It created a work environment that people say

1:16:50 > 1:16:54is closer to a frat house than a frontline media company.

1:16:54 > 1:16:56So that's in there.

1:16:56 > 1:16:585,459.

1:16:58 > 1:17:01Well, that's not going to happen.

1:17:01 > 1:17:04He's got probably 6,000 words of good stuff.

1:17:04 > 1:17:07Every editor and writer thinks they've good stuff,

1:17:07 > 1:17:09but he really does have good stuff.

1:17:09 > 1:17:11It's well written, very sharply reported.

1:17:11 > 1:17:14It sticks to the facts, fantastic quotes from people.

1:17:14 > 1:17:18Your board looked into these matters,

1:17:18 > 1:17:20had their law firm make calls.

1:17:20 > 1:17:22What did they conclude?

1:17:22 > 1:17:26'I'm trying to figure out why that is important.'

1:17:26 > 1:17:30Well, because there's people who are out billions of dollars in debt,

1:17:30 > 1:17:33who are going to decide whether

1:17:33 > 1:17:36the current management is going to stay in place.

1:17:36 > 1:17:38There's judges that are going to decide

1:17:38 > 1:17:42whether they're worthy of bonuses that are on the table.

1:17:42 > 1:17:44'I'll see what I can find out and we'll get back to you.'

1:17:44 > 1:17:46OK, you have both my numbers, so let me know.

1:17:55 > 1:17:58What should I know before I listen to my messages?

1:17:58 > 1:18:01He was willing to start friendly.

1:18:01 > 1:18:05I brought up widespread sexual harassment.

1:18:05 > 1:18:08So when he calls and says, "I can't get this shit together"...

1:18:08 > 1:18:11I should probably get this.

1:18:11 > 1:18:12Yeah.

1:18:12 > 1:18:15All right, you shouldn't be here.

1:18:15 > 1:18:17Bruce Headlam.

1:18:17 > 1:18:18How are you?

1:18:18 > 1:18:20You've a couple things going for you.

1:18:20 > 1:18:23He's one of the most fair-minded people I know.

1:18:23 > 1:18:25That's one thing.

1:18:25 > 1:18:27He's a very diligent reporter.

1:18:27 > 1:18:29We don't do hit jobs.

1:18:29 > 1:18:31That's not the business we're in.

1:18:31 > 1:18:34The story we were led to, we were led to by the reporting.

1:18:34 > 1:18:37Let me talk to my bosses, see what they're thinking.

1:18:37 > 1:18:40You talk to your bosses, see what they're thinking.

1:18:40 > 1:18:43And maybe we can look at it a little more dispassionately

1:18:43 > 1:18:46in the morning. Fair enough?

1:18:46 > 1:18:49You guys have negotiated this issue to the exclusion

1:18:49 > 1:18:51of everything else.

1:18:51 > 1:18:53And now you want to broaden out the discussion

1:18:53 > 1:18:55four hours before we close?

1:18:55 > 1:18:58We're interested in getting responses from you.

1:19:03 > 1:19:06They're sending a letter from the law firm.

1:19:06 > 1:19:08It'll be staking out a position.

1:19:08 > 1:19:10If we say we're going to go with that,

1:19:10 > 1:19:13then another letter will come from the law firm,

1:19:13 > 1:19:14and that will be...

1:19:16 > 1:19:19..contain threats of legal action.

1:19:19 > 1:19:22They're worried this is a hatchet job,

1:19:22 > 1:19:25Worried where the reporting started, all that kind of thing.

1:19:25 > 1:19:27The muscles of the institution

1:19:27 > 1:19:30are going to kick in here at some point.

1:19:30 > 1:19:32It's not really up to me.

1:19:54 > 1:19:58We need institutions that have the ability,

1:19:58 > 1:20:04both financially and culturally, to bring news

1:20:04 > 1:20:07that other institutions and individuals cannot.

1:20:14 > 1:20:18I think part of what goes on with conferences now

1:20:18 > 1:20:21is it's sort of lonely and scary out there.

1:20:21 > 1:20:24It's a way to gather around a campfire

1:20:24 > 1:20:26and say, "We're all right.

1:20:26 > 1:20:27"Aren't we?

1:20:27 > 1:20:28"Are we OK?

1:20:29 > 1:20:30"We're fine.

1:20:31 > 1:20:33"We must be, we have badges on."

1:20:40 > 1:20:42What are you doing for supper tonight?

1:20:42 > 1:20:46I'm going to eat with the AA guys.

1:20:46 > 1:20:47Oh, yeah?

1:20:47 > 1:20:48Are you skinny?

1:20:50 > 1:20:51How skinny are you?

1:20:52 > 1:20:54You're short now, too.

1:20:54 > 1:20:57You used to be like six feet tall.

1:20:57 > 1:20:58I was at least.

1:20:58 > 1:21:00Is that going to happen to me?

1:21:00 > 1:21:02My neck is already bent over.

1:21:09 > 1:21:11Thank you so much.

1:21:11 > 1:21:13Please welcome David Carr.

1:21:20 > 1:21:25You've lived through the worst cyclical, secular recession,

1:21:25 > 1:21:29the publishing business has ever seen in modern times.

1:21:29 > 1:21:31Look around you, you're still here.

1:21:31 > 1:21:34Don't think about the people that are gone.

1:21:34 > 1:21:36Think about the people that made it.

1:21:36 > 1:21:38It's a really big deal.

1:21:38 > 1:21:40It's demonstrates, number one,

1:21:40 > 1:21:45that you're a bunch of tenacious motherfuckers, I'll tell you that.

1:21:45 > 1:21:47You have proven you cannot be killed!

1:21:59 > 1:22:02I've always thought it was a little bit of a caper

1:22:02 > 1:22:04that I ended up working at The New York Times.

1:22:04 > 1:22:07I don't think I was destined

1:22:07 > 1:22:09to be the best Times man there ever was.

1:22:09 > 1:22:12I just didn't want to screw it up.

1:22:12 > 1:22:15I would find it unspeakable if The New York Times

1:22:15 > 1:22:17ended up in a diminished place,

1:22:17 > 1:22:22but The New York Times does not need to be a monolith to survive.

1:22:28 > 1:22:30Welcome, everybody.

1:22:30 > 1:22:32We're here to take note of the fact

1:22:32 > 1:22:35that journalism is alive and well and feisty,

1:22:35 > 1:22:37especially at The New York Times.

1:22:50 > 1:22:55# Just like a paper tiger

1:22:55 > 1:23:02# Torn apart by idle hands. #

1:23:07 > 1:23:10We'll see you in a little while.

1:23:10 > 1:23:12# Fix yourself while you still can

1:23:16 > 1:23:20# The deserts down below us... #

1:23:21 > 1:23:25I find French posters of American films funny.

1:23:25 > 1:23:27Orson Welles has a size 28 waist.

1:23:27 > 1:23:29He's not like any newspaper man I know,

1:23:29 > 1:23:33or anybody up in the cafeteria, even though we have a salad bar.

1:23:35 > 1:23:40# Like a paper tiger

1:23:40 > 1:23:41# In the sun

1:23:41 > 1:23:47# Looking through a broken diamond

1:23:47 > 1:23:52# To make the past what it should be

1:23:54 > 1:24:00# Through the ruins and the weather

1:24:01 > 1:24:07# Capsized boats in the sea

1:24:08 > 1:24:14# The deserts down below us

1:24:14 > 1:24:20# And the storms up above

1:24:20 > 1:24:26# Like a stray dog gone defective

1:24:26 > 1:24:31# Like a paper tiger

1:24:31 > 1:24:34# In the sun. #

1:24:34 > 1:24:36Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd

1:24:36 > 1:24:38Email subtitling@bbc.co.uk