0:00:30 > 0:00:33You have this obsession with what happened in Toronto.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45I was standing on cliff, in a sense,
0:00:45 > 0:00:50and I had to somehow come up with 40 million very quickly.
0:00:56 > 0:01:01I was contemplating, for the first time, the possibility of living life as a fugitive.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12It's easy to say you would never cross the line,
0:01:12 > 0:01:17but...the line is presented to very, very few people.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24How many could say for sure that they would never do what I did
0:01:24 > 0:01:26if they had the opportunity
0:01:26 > 0:01:28and thought they wouldn't get caught?
0:01:33 > 0:01:36I knew if I went back to New York without the 40 million,
0:01:36 > 0:01:38all hell would break loose.
0:01:38 > 0:01:42So I came up with the preposterous idea of going up to Toronto
0:01:42 > 0:01:44and trying to impersonate this individual.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52That's when I became completely desperate.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55It was just the last act of a long series of charades
0:01:55 > 0:01:59and it was by far the least clever of all the...
0:02:04 > 0:02:05..of all the acts I did.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16I finally was just completely overwhelmed
0:02:16 > 0:02:19by the whole madness of the charade, and I went into their office...
0:02:19 > 0:02:22- As Marc Dreier? - Yeah, as Marc Dreier.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25Yeah, they knew who I was, the pension fund knew who I was.
0:02:25 > 0:02:29I had dealt with them. So I walked in, yeah, as Marc Dreier, sure.
0:02:29 > 0:02:33And, uh... And they arrested me when I walked into their office.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52- Well, at least the Mets are in first place, Bob.- Seven in a row. Right?
0:02:52 > 0:02:53If I have to go to prison today,
0:02:53 > 0:02:55at least I got them into first place before I left.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59I told my son I wasn't going to prison until the Mets were in first.
0:03:02 > 0:03:04They'll stay there for a while, I imagine.
0:03:05 > 0:03:06They're playing well now.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24Let's talk about exactly what's going to happen this afternoon.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28The judge is required, under a rule of criminal procedure, to ask you
0:03:28 > 0:03:32a whole bunch of questions to make sure that the plea is voluntary.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34You told me that the first question he was going to ask me
0:03:34 > 0:03:36is if I've been drinking in the last 24 hours,
0:03:36 > 0:03:40so even though I was very tempted, I have not been drinking in the last 24 hours.
0:03:40 > 0:03:44Uh, he will spend a fair amount of time, even though you're a lawyer,
0:03:44 > 0:03:47wanting to know if you understand what rights you're giving up.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49Uh, the right to a trial -
0:03:49 > 0:03:51I don't have to go through every detail -
0:03:51 > 0:03:54but by pleading guilty, you're giving up all these rights.
0:03:54 > 0:03:58So, he'll go over, you know, the question of whether you understand...
0:03:58 > 0:04:01- The potential sentence. - ..the potential sentence.
0:04:01 > 0:04:05If you add it all up, you need a calculator, it'll be 145 years.
0:04:05 > 0:04:07It would be a good result if I would walk out the door
0:04:07 > 0:04:09for a few more months until the sentencing.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13Today, obviously, I'd like to be able to come back home.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15If I get remanded,
0:04:15 > 0:04:17you need to call my kids tonight.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20Call Spencer and let him know what happened.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24The news of the day isn't good.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31The era of greed and irresponsibility on Wall Street
0:04:31 > 0:04:33has led us to a perilous moment.
0:04:35 > 0:04:40'There's no more effective acid against trust than fraud,
0:04:40 > 0:04:42'especially fraud by top elites.'
0:04:42 > 0:04:45'Through their greed, through their recklessness, and through
0:04:45 > 0:04:47'their illegal behaviour,'
0:04:47 > 0:04:50the so-called "masters of the universe",
0:04:50 > 0:04:53the best and the brightest, have taken us to the edge.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58'If it hadn't been for Bernie Madoff,
0:04:58 > 0:05:03'the most famous white collar criminal in America right now would probably be Marc Dreier.'
0:05:03 > 0:05:05Christ, it's like a feeding frenzy.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07'Marc Dreier will plead guilty'
0:05:07 > 0:05:09to all charges in the 700 million fraud case against him.
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Authorities are accusing him
0:05:11 > 0:05:13of masterminding a multi-million dollar fraud.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16Prosecutors will ask for 145 years for Marc Dreier
0:05:16 > 0:05:17who defrauded investors...
0:05:17 > 0:05:20He was going to different hedge funds, selling these phoney notes
0:05:20 > 0:05:22that he had concocted.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25The founder of the law firm Dreier LLP sold more than
0:05:25 > 0:05:2885 fake promissory notes from 2004 to 2008.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31Marc Dreier, I mean, that is an incredible story.
0:05:31 > 0:05:33He's accused of literally going into a client's office
0:05:33 > 0:05:38and selling fake securities from their office, as representing them.
0:05:38 > 0:05:40That takes bravado.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46Mr Dreier, anything you want to say to the people who
0:05:46 > 0:05:48think you're getting a soft deal here?
0:05:48 > 0:05:51'I'm calling the case of the United States against Marc Dreier.'
0:05:51 > 0:05:55'Good morning, your honour, John Streeter, for the government.'
0:05:55 > 0:05:57'Gerald Shargel for Mr Dreier.'
0:05:57 > 0:05:59- 'Mr Streeter.' - Thank you, your honour.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01'I don't even think Mr Shargel would dispute
0:06:01 > 0:06:05'that the evidence against his client is overwhelming.
0:06:05 > 0:06:10'Mr Dreier is the Houdini of impersonation and false documents.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14'He is a person of exceptional ingenuity,
0:06:14 > 0:06:16'and exceptional resourcefulness.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19'His life has completely unravelled.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23'He has gone from being an extremely rich man to a person who has
0:06:23 > 0:06:27'absolutely nothing and is facing the rest of his life in jail.'
0:07:10 > 0:07:12Life just overwhelms you, sometimes.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17I just, uh...lost my way.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21And I lost my common sense, my judgment.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28The main advantage I had was that I had the track record of 30 years
0:07:28 > 0:07:32of...being a highly regarded lawyer in New York.
0:07:34 > 0:07:35So, uh, I exploited that.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39I had the opportunity to take a lot of money.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41Foolishly, I didn't think of the consequences,
0:07:41 > 0:07:44so I did it.
0:07:46 > 0:07:48And, er, I'm certainly criminal by reason of having done that.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54I engaged in crimes that hurt a lot of people -
0:07:54 > 0:07:59people that I cared about, which is a very...contemptible thing.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16This is how I'm going to work from now on. Ride this to the office.
0:08:20 > 0:08:23Dreier is a really well-known New York person.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Marc does everything first class. Dreier is responsible for all of this.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Dreier seemingly had it all.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35A Yale college and Harvard Law School education,
0:08:35 > 0:08:40a 250-person law firm with his name alone on the door.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42Marc is an inspiring leader
0:08:42 > 0:08:44and his success truly motivates you as an attorney.
0:08:45 > 0:08:49This is a lawyer who wanted to be around the rich and the famous,
0:08:49 > 0:08:52and started trying to live in that world.
0:08:52 > 0:08:56Flashy practice, hanging around with professional football players...
0:08:56 > 0:08:59Marc Dreier, I think the world of him, I foresee
0:08:59 > 0:09:02wonderful things in the next decade, for, uh,
0:09:02 > 0:09:04for him to do great things, I really do.
0:09:22 > 0:09:24I haven't been here in, like, ten days. How are you doing?
0:09:27 > 0:09:29I think it's ten days. Feels like ten days.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34- I'm been eating all day.- I noticed.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39So let's talk about this letter that you're working on.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42If, at sentencing, the whole idea is for the judge to have as much
0:09:42 > 0:09:44information as he can, about who this person is,
0:09:44 > 0:09:46and why he did what he did, I just explain myself.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49Obviously it was stupid, obviously it was irrational,
0:09:49 > 0:09:51but what makes somebody do something like this?
0:09:51 > 0:09:54I can only tell you this is what I was thinking at the time.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57I'm not defending it, but...this was my state of mind.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00Personally, I think one of the saddest parts of this entire case
0:10:00 > 0:10:04is that there was no-one there to essentially
0:10:04 > 0:10:07- take you by the shoulders and shake you...- I mentioned that.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09..and, and, say, "What the hell are you doing?
0:10:09 > 0:10:13- "What are you doing, here?" You know? - And that's really very true.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16You know, I was going through a divorce. I felt very, very isolated.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20I really didn't have any relationship with anybody, personal or professional...
0:10:20 > 0:10:23that I could, that could sort of give me moral grounding.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27- And, um...- No checks, no balances. - No checks, no balances.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29So...are you frightened?
0:10:29 > 0:10:32Uh, yeah, I'm frightened, um...
0:10:32 > 0:10:34It's hard to...
0:10:34 > 0:10:37you know, I guess, you don't know how frightened you're going to be,
0:10:37 > 0:10:41I guess, until you actually start serving your sentence.
0:10:42 > 0:10:44Uh, being away from my children is frightening to me
0:10:44 > 0:10:48in the sense of not being there for them.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51They won't to be able to come into my room each time something bothers them,
0:10:51 > 0:10:54pick up the phone each time something bothers them,
0:10:54 > 0:10:57and I'm not going to be able to celebrate with them.
0:10:57 > 0:10:59I think even more than not being there when they're upset,
0:10:59 > 0:11:03is not being able to celebrate when good things happen to them.
0:11:03 > 0:11:04That frightens me.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07It's be important to get you to a prison that's close to New York,
0:11:07 > 0:11:09so the kids will be able to visit.
0:11:09 > 0:11:14And, uh, we have to think about what prison we're going to be asking for.
0:11:14 > 0:11:15You know, I think I...
0:11:17 > 0:11:19..can and will deal with it.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22HE LAUGHS
0:11:22 > 0:11:23Be good.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42People don't just engage in crimes because they wake up one day
0:11:42 > 0:11:45and they find that they're prepared to be a criminal.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52I spent 20 years, sort of, as a lawyer at a large firm,
0:11:52 > 0:11:54you know, for the most part pushing around paper.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56That wasn't very gratifying.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07A lot of what you're doing is unrecognised.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09You're getting paid reasonably well,
0:12:09 > 0:12:12but you're certainly not getting paid as well as most clients,
0:12:12 > 0:12:15and you feel that, you know, you're working very hard
0:12:15 > 0:12:19and not achieving the level of financial success that you, you know, deserve.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24That led me to want to create my own law firm.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28For better or worse, I was very fearless.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30I mean, I started the firm with no money,
0:12:30 > 0:12:31and I just had...
0:12:31 > 0:12:34I think it's that I just had a lot of confidence in myself going forward.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40So I went in the fall of 1997 to 499 Park.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45It was obviously a huge leap forward from the suite that I that had.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48I was so enthralled by the space,
0:12:48 > 0:12:51that I thought the space itself would give me real credibility
0:12:51 > 0:12:53and I'd be able to then attract more lawyers.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55I think I had one lawyer at the time.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00I went into the landlord and I said I'd like to take the full floor -
0:13:00 > 0:13:0320th floor - which is about 11,000 square feet.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06I had to tell him I had no clients, I had no money,
0:13:06 > 0:13:10I had no money in the bank, I had no receivables, I had no credit,
0:13:10 > 0:13:13I had no references, I didn't even... I had nothing.
0:13:13 > 0:13:15And he laughed at me.
0:13:15 > 0:13:17And he said no.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20As I was walking out of his office,
0:13:20 > 0:13:25his assistant came in and said, "Marc, what are you doing here?"
0:13:25 > 0:13:26And I hadn't seen...
0:13:26 > 0:13:29This was a woman I had gone to high school with 30 years earlier.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32And she brought me back into the office and she said to her boss,
0:13:32 > 0:13:35she said, "George," she said, "You can't turn away Marc Dreier."
0:13:35 > 0:13:36and he said, "Why not?" and she said,
0:13:36 > 0:13:38"He was 'most likely to succeed' in high school,
0:13:38 > 0:13:40"you can't turn him away."
0:13:40 > 0:13:43And she convinced him to give me the space.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48I thought that I would start a somewhat different business model.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51Since I was going to be the only person putting money into the firm,
0:13:51 > 0:13:55I would also be the person who ran the firm, and then in a sense it would be a dictatorship,
0:13:55 > 0:13:57it would not be a democracy.
0:14:00 > 0:14:02Ironically, that appealed to a lot of lawyers.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05I was able to grow the firm still relatively modestly,
0:14:05 > 0:14:09while still funding the firm through more or less conventional means,
0:14:09 > 0:14:11either banks or lending institutions.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17But there came a point where the only way to achieve real success,
0:14:17 > 0:14:21to really enlarge the firm, was I had to take on more lawyers,
0:14:21 > 0:14:24and I had to take on more space and I had to take on more personnel.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26And if I was going to do that,
0:14:26 > 0:14:28I needed substantially more funding than I had.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38I had grown up thinking
0:14:38 > 0:14:41that I was destined to achieve
0:14:41 > 0:14:43a LOT of success, not modest success,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46so I needed to feed that,
0:14:46 > 0:14:49and that was sort of the...
0:14:49 > 0:14:51er...
0:14:51 > 0:14:56crossing the Rubicon, I guess, where I made the misguided decision
0:14:56 > 0:14:58of funding the firm illegally
0:14:58 > 0:15:01in order to achieve the growth that I wanted.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28PHONE RINGS
0:16:28 > 0:16:30Yeah.
0:16:30 > 0:16:31Did you tell him that?
0:16:31 > 0:16:34Where does it say there's no smoking in the house? Was it in the lease?
0:16:35 > 0:16:38OK, well, you're just not going to do that.
0:16:38 > 0:16:40So, uh, you're just not going to do that.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42And, as you don't do that, you don't cooperate.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44You are not going to do that. You paid for it
0:16:44 > 0:16:45and you are entitled to some privacy.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48Why don't I speak to the broker tomorrow? That'll help.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51This is the usual kind of stuff, don't let him get to you,
0:16:51 > 0:16:52but stand your ground.
0:16:52 > 0:16:56As far as the smoking goes, this is not a public facility, this is a private home.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58You're certainly allowed to smoke... not you, but if your friends
0:16:58 > 0:17:01want to smoke in the house, they can smoke in the house.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03If they open up windows or smoke outside...
0:17:03 > 0:17:05But there was nothing about no smoking in the lease
0:17:05 > 0:17:07and people are allowed to smoke in their homes.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09He can't just come in after the lease is signed
0:17:09 > 0:17:12and establish all kinds of rules that can interfere with you.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14That's not how it's going to work. All right?
0:17:14 > 0:17:16All right, so call me later if he comes by tonight,
0:17:16 > 0:17:20otherwise I will call the broker and/or the owner in the morning
0:17:20 > 0:17:22and see what we can do about it, OK? OK, bye.
0:17:25 > 0:17:26That's my son.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33He has a share house in the Hamptons in the summer.
0:17:33 > 0:17:36This is his first day there so he is experiencing the usual problems
0:17:36 > 0:17:39that everybody, I think, experiences, the first time they take a house in the summer.
0:17:39 > 0:17:41It's what happens in the Hamptons, so...
0:17:41 > 0:17:44so we'll have to take a stand with the owner.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56I don't remember how the idea first occurred to me,
0:17:56 > 0:17:58but it occurred to me that I could, uh...
0:18:02 > 0:18:06I guess my thinking was it would be wonderful...
0:18:06 > 0:18:09to borrow the money but I didn't have the credit to borrow the money,
0:18:09 > 0:18:10so...
0:18:13 > 0:18:15..so I guess the idea occurred to me
0:18:15 > 0:18:17that I would try to borrow money with someone else's credit.
0:18:17 > 0:18:19And it was nothing more imaginative than that.
0:18:24 > 0:18:26Sheldon Solow was somebody
0:18:26 > 0:18:28that I met maybe around 1998.
0:18:28 > 0:18:33And Sheldon is a very successful real estate developer in New York.
0:18:35 > 0:18:39He was an extraordinarily powerful guy in terms of wealth,
0:18:39 > 0:18:41and property and clout,
0:18:41 > 0:18:43and he gave me some work.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47The fees that I obtained from doing work for him
0:18:47 > 0:18:51was essential in launching the firm and growing the firm.
0:18:53 > 0:18:57He never failed to remind me that he had helped me launch my business,
0:18:57 > 0:19:03and that he wanted a lawyer who would be very, very aggressive
0:19:03 > 0:19:06and would accommodate what he wanted.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12We worked on some matters together where I was sanctioned,
0:19:12 > 0:19:14uh, by the court, for being too aggressive on his behalf...
0:19:16 > 0:19:19..and the court actually would levy fees against me or the firm.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23He did not come to my defence,
0:19:23 > 0:19:25he did not foot the bill for these sanctions,
0:19:25 > 0:19:28he did not try to help me in rehabilitating my good name,
0:19:28 > 0:19:30and I guess what I resented most
0:19:30 > 0:19:33is that he absolutely didn't seem to care.
0:19:35 > 0:19:38I think that's...accurate.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45Why I chose to use him as the vehicle was because he was a person
0:19:45 > 0:19:49who was known to have great wealth, he was somebody who was known
0:19:49 > 0:19:54to be private and somebody who was known to be very credit-worthy.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57But I do think, I guess, on a subconscious level
0:19:57 > 0:20:02and a half-conscious level, I guess I did feel that...
0:20:02 > 0:20:04he had betrayed me,
0:20:04 > 0:20:05or he had...
0:20:06 > 0:20:08..disappointed me.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12Obviously, that doesn't justify what I did, but I guess...
0:20:12 > 0:20:16I did not walk around feeling all the time,
0:20:16 > 0:20:17"How could I be doing this to him?"
0:20:19 > 0:20:23Hey, hey, don't go anywhere yet. Marc Dreier's up.
0:20:27 > 0:20:28Come on, Marc.
0:20:28 > 0:20:33Come on, come on! We want the million,
0:20:33 > 0:20:34we want the million!
0:20:34 > 0:20:37People say this is probably one of the best celebrity golf tournaments.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40What do you mean "probably"? What do you mean "one of"?
0:20:40 > 0:20:42Uh, I think people here probably feel we run a great tournament.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45I'm very gratified when people say how much fun they had.
0:20:45 > 0:20:51'My marriage had failed, and uh, I was disappointed in my career.
0:20:51 > 0:20:56'I felt this compulsion to appear to be doing extremely well.
0:20:57 > 0:21:03'I needed more recognition by others that I was doing great things.'
0:21:07 > 0:21:09What's happening now is very surreal.
0:21:13 > 0:21:17Now, I'm certainly viewed as a completely different person.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19I'm seen as, I guess, a pariah.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51I guess they call it a gilded cage.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53But this is certainly an imprisonment.
0:21:55 > 0:22:00The guards are here 24 hours a day. It's all been very civil.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07I don't have the use of any cell phones, or internet,
0:22:07 > 0:22:10or computers, or anything.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12I have a landline that I can use.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16Unfortunately, a typical day is pretty much like every day before and after.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18Thus far, the only money for guards has come from my mother,
0:22:18 > 0:22:20and a small extent from my sister.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23And the only money for food that I've gotten has come from my son,
0:22:23 > 0:22:25from his Bar Mitzvah money. Nobody's given me any money.
0:22:32 > 0:22:37I've been entirely removed from interaction with...with everyone.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42I, uh, I feel very much removed from, from the world.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52Whereas before, almost everything that happened every day in the whole world
0:22:52 > 0:22:55was of interest to me and affected me,
0:22:55 > 0:22:58now, it's like, you know, I read the newspaper
0:22:58 > 0:23:02but almost everything in the world is irrelevant to me.
0:23:06 > 0:23:12I'm living a life now that is so different from anything
0:23:12 > 0:23:13I ever could have imagined.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28What enabled me to do what I did was the climate of...
0:23:29 > 0:23:35..I won't say greed, but the climate of...uh, you know,
0:23:35 > 0:23:37I guess, you know, a...
0:23:37 > 0:23:41a strong appetite by the financial community
0:23:41 > 0:23:44to make money quickly and in large amounts.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47The stock market is in the midst of a powerful rally.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50The Dow Jones industrial average closed at an all-time high.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52They're still buying new homes at a record pace.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55Profits are up, the stock market is up, employment is up.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58The economy roars along at a pace that astonishes economists.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03I, uh, approached a hedge fund with the idea,
0:24:03 > 0:24:07would they want to lend money to a very credit-worthy client
0:24:07 > 0:24:10on a very favourable interest rate.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12A short-term loan, one-year loan.
0:24:14 > 0:24:19I would present Mr Solow's business as the ostensible borrower.
0:24:19 > 0:24:23It wasn't unusual that a real estate developer
0:24:23 > 0:24:25would want to borrow funds,
0:24:25 > 0:24:27so I was able to demonstrate, convince them that he had
0:24:27 > 0:24:30new developments, overseas developments
0:24:30 > 0:24:32that he wanted liquidity for.
0:24:33 > 0:24:34That didn't seem odd.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37But I didn't have his real financial statements,
0:24:37 > 0:24:39so I invented financial statements.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43I knew Mr Solow's accounting firm so I set up the financial statements
0:24:43 > 0:24:46over the letterhead of his accounting firm.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48And I knew enough about his business that
0:24:48 > 0:24:53I could make the statements appear credible at least to an outsider that knew much less than I did.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57I definitely saw it as a one-time misadventure,
0:24:57 > 0:25:02I definitely saw it at the beginning as saying, "OK, if I could just get this money,
0:25:02 > 0:25:04"I'm sure in a relatively short period of time
0:25:04 > 0:25:06"I could invest in the firm,
0:25:06 > 0:25:12"I could generate funds, and I could repay the debt,"
0:25:12 > 0:25:16the so-called debt, and get myself out from under the...
0:25:16 > 0:25:18under the illegality of it.
0:25:28 > 0:25:32The law firm was draining off far more money than I anticipated it would...
0:25:32 > 0:25:33and the debt was mounting.
0:25:36 > 0:25:39If I had to achieve success by theft, certainly logically,
0:25:39 > 0:25:42I should not have felt that good about myself.
0:25:42 > 0:25:47I can't remember spending any time wrestling with that,
0:25:47 > 0:25:50which underscores how desperate I felt.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01It was very hard to talk about this with my family.
0:26:01 > 0:26:06And, um, I don't want to get into any more of the particulars than I have.
0:26:10 > 0:26:13- You know, with your mom... - I'm not going to talk about anybody else in my family.
0:26:13 > 0:26:16- Just, just, in terms of... - I'm not going to talk about it.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18- I'm saying, is... - I'm not going to talk about it.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20Cos we did do this before...
0:26:20 > 0:26:23I'm not going to talk about my mother.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28I love my mother very much and she's been hurt by this
0:26:28 > 0:26:31and I don't want to talk any more about it.
0:26:37 > 0:26:39TV: This is Jeopardy.
0:26:42 > 0:26:43I should've been on Jeopardy.
0:26:43 > 0:26:44The one-day champion.
0:26:44 > 0:26:472200 in one day. That's not good. One of the worst days ever.
0:26:47 > 0:26:48Yep.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51That day was the slower group.
0:26:51 > 0:26:55TV PLAYS
0:26:58 > 0:26:59Stonehenge.
0:26:59 > 0:27:01- 'Stonehenge.'- 'Yes.'
0:27:03 > 0:27:07'If you're plagued by one of these on your back, you've got problems.'
0:27:07 > 0:27:09Monkey!
0:27:09 > 0:27:11I thought maybe a monkey, because, I don't know...
0:27:11 > 0:27:13'On presentation to the Queen,
0:27:13 > 0:27:16'address her formally as Your Majesty and subsequently...'
0:27:16 > 0:27:19- Ma'am. - No, can't be that.
0:27:21 > 0:27:22Told you, ma'am.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26I've met with the Queen many times.
0:27:26 > 0:27:28You've met with the Queen?
0:27:28 > 0:27:31Final jeopardy! I haven't missed a final jeopardy question in ten years.
0:27:34 > 0:27:35Scarlet Letter!
0:27:35 > 0:27:38Scarlet Letter, the Scarlet Letter!
0:27:38 > 0:27:40My streak is intact.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43One million consecutive Double Jeopardies, I've gotten.
0:27:43 > 0:27:47- No. "The end of the novel..." - Scarlet Letter.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51They've got to have harder jeopardies,
0:27:51 > 0:27:53- this is...- Well, they say no-one's done it the last four days.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56- Well, I haven't watched it the last four days.- No, I'm saying,
0:27:56 > 0:27:58- they don't know if you've... - Look at this, I mean...
0:27:58 > 0:28:01INDISTINCT
0:28:01 > 0:28:04I should've... just never practised law,
0:28:04 > 0:28:06I should've just gone on game shows.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09Scarlet Letter....
0:28:09 > 0:28:11She's the only smart one on the show.
0:28:11 > 0:28:15Zero! Either they were stupid or they were chicken.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18There wasn't a person that had brains and courage.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31There have always been schemes like this, for hundreds of years,
0:28:31 > 0:28:32as far as I can tell.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35When times are good, and then they come to light when times are bad
0:28:35 > 0:28:39and there's probably no reason to think that there won't be another round of these
0:28:39 > 0:28:41as soon as there's some measure of financial recovery.
0:28:41 > 0:28:44TV: 'What's wrong with us?
0:28:47 > 0:28:49'I think there's a values crisis.
0:28:49 > 0:28:54'You won't get to economic recovery without a moral recovery, as well.
0:28:54 > 0:28:58'Where there is no moral framework, no ethical sensibility,
0:28:58 > 0:29:03'the market ends up devouring all the other sectors, and then devours itself.'
0:29:05 > 0:29:08Mr Madoff and myself and others who have been caught are only
0:29:08 > 0:29:09a small fraction of those who engaged in this,
0:29:09 > 0:29:11nobody caught any of us
0:29:11 > 0:29:15in terms of policing. It's that the markets could no longer sustain
0:29:15 > 0:29:18the free spending that engendered what we were doing.
0:29:21 > 0:29:26It wasn't so much that I stole money to buy things.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29It was more that I bought things so I could steal money.
0:29:31 > 0:29:35I needed to create the impression that
0:29:35 > 0:29:40I was very successful financially, to allow me to present myself
0:29:40 > 0:29:43as the kind of person that people feel comfortable investing with.
0:30:06 > 0:30:09Certainly I used some of the money that I stole
0:30:09 > 0:30:11to buy extravagant things.
0:30:15 > 0:30:18I purchased several Warhols.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21The collection of Jackie O's which come in a group of four,
0:30:21 > 0:30:23I paid about six million dollars for.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26John Lennons, I paid together, I paid six million dollars for.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29There was a Nureyev portrait that I paid two million dollars for.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32Had a wonderful Rothko, which cost about five, six million dollars.
0:30:32 > 0:30:35I had a Lichtenstein, some pieces by Damien Hirst.
0:30:35 > 0:30:37Nice piece by John Baldessari.
0:30:37 > 0:30:38It's easy to lose discipline
0:30:38 > 0:30:40when you're spending money that's not yours.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49I leveraged these things to the hill.
0:30:49 > 0:30:53The artwork I used to collateralize a loan for about three times
0:30:53 > 0:30:54the value of the artwork.
0:30:54 > 0:30:57I was using these properties to enable me
0:30:57 > 0:31:02in a very direct way, to sustain the fraud.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08And it was the same with the charities.
0:31:08 > 0:31:11What Marc has done over the last few years for the charity
0:31:11 > 0:31:13and for this event, I couldn't think of anybody else
0:31:13 > 0:31:16I could have who would have that kind of commitment.
0:31:16 > 0:31:20So, I am grateful to have Dreier and Marc and his organisation,
0:31:20 > 0:31:24his company behind this event and they've made it what it is.
0:31:24 > 0:31:29I threw charitable events that were all for that same purpose.
0:31:29 > 0:31:33To present myself in a way that I could attract more investors
0:31:33 > 0:31:35to these bogus notes.
0:31:35 > 0:31:39It really was an instrument in the whole scam.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42We're very proud to be associated with these charities,
0:31:42 > 0:31:44and we've had a great event so far.
0:31:44 > 0:31:46Raising some good money for two good causes.
0:32:08 > 0:32:11I don't know how to use this juicer.
0:32:11 > 0:32:14I was trying to get the juice out of here.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27How many people who are condemning what I did,
0:32:27 > 0:32:31would know for sure they would never do anything like what I did
0:32:31 > 0:32:33if they knew they wouldn't get caught?
0:32:33 > 0:32:36Is what holds people back from doing things like this
0:32:36 > 0:32:40their fundamental virtue, or is it the fear of getting caught?
0:32:40 > 0:32:42I think in many people,
0:32:42 > 0:32:44in the case of many people, it is fundamental virtue.
0:32:44 > 0:32:48I applaud those people. But I think in many, many people,
0:32:48 > 0:32:51it's either lack of opportunity, or fear of getting caught.
0:33:00 > 0:33:03I sort of, for lack of a better word,
0:33:03 > 0:33:06experimented with the idea on a smaller level,
0:33:06 > 0:33:08I think for a million dollars.
0:33:08 > 0:33:13I think I was surprised at how easily I was able to pull that off
0:33:13 > 0:33:17and then I invented this 20 million dollar note with a hedge fund.
0:33:17 > 0:33:18And that was in early 2004.
0:33:21 > 0:33:24The key was that I had to hold myself out as the representative
0:33:24 > 0:33:28for Mr Solow, so that any questions would be addressed to me
0:33:28 > 0:33:32and not to his business or him directly.
0:33:34 > 0:33:38I was, for all sense and purposes, a legal representative of Mr Solow,
0:33:38 > 0:33:43so I was able to...
0:33:43 > 0:33:47..convince the fund that I was authorised to do what I did.
0:33:47 > 0:33:52And so they lent the money purportedly to him,
0:33:52 > 0:33:54or to his business for one year.
0:33:54 > 0:34:02A transaction was processed through my law firm's escrow account,
0:34:02 > 0:34:05so money was wired in to my firm, ostensibly,
0:34:05 > 0:34:09then I was passing the funds on to Mr Solow which I wasn't doing.
0:34:11 > 0:34:15I was using those funds and paying the interest off quarterly,
0:34:15 > 0:34:17ostensibly on his behalf.
0:34:17 > 0:34:22Then, of course, that plan was fine until the loan matured.
0:34:22 > 0:34:24As the year went on, it became apparent to me that I wouldn't
0:34:24 > 0:34:27have the money at the end of the year to repay that note.
0:34:27 > 0:34:29So, that led me, of course,
0:34:29 > 0:34:33to duplicate that trick with other funds.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38The domino effect was that I had to keep borrowing new money
0:34:38 > 0:34:40to pay off old money.
0:34:40 > 0:34:43Every week for years, I was involved in this process
0:34:43 > 0:34:48of updating, inventing, sustaining the financial statements.
0:34:48 > 0:34:52As things went along, there were maybe a dozen of these funds
0:34:52 > 0:34:57that I had these transactions with,
0:34:57 > 0:35:01so I was getting inquiries from a dozen different sources.
0:35:01 > 0:35:09So in addition to running the firm and running my cases as a litigator,
0:35:09 > 0:35:16I was almost always preoccupied with sustaining this charade.
0:35:23 > 0:35:24What I did was deplorable
0:35:24 > 0:35:27but, you know, people go to the movies all the time
0:35:27 > 0:35:30and whether it's Ocean's 11 or whether it's Bonnie and Clyde,
0:35:30 > 0:35:35or whether it's dozens and dozens of movies that romanticize
0:35:35 > 0:35:38going in and robbing a bank
0:35:38 > 0:35:41or taking money from some financial institution
0:35:41 > 0:35:43that can so-called afford it,
0:35:43 > 0:35:46the audience basically is cheering for the financial criminal.
0:35:47 > 0:35:54There is some hypocrisy in rooting for people to get away with it.
0:35:54 > 0:35:57And then taking a very different posture
0:35:57 > 0:35:59when it happens in so-called real life.
0:36:03 > 0:36:05My dog had nothing to do with it.
0:36:05 > 0:36:08He was probably the only person talking sense to me every day.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13There he goes.
0:36:13 > 0:36:17He hates the rain, so he'll be charging back in here any moment.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29I got so wrapped up I forgot to feed you.
0:36:31 > 0:36:33I'm going to prison for a very long time,
0:36:33 > 0:36:37so I don't have much, you know.
0:36:37 > 0:36:39I'll obviously be upset no matter what the number is.
0:36:42 > 0:36:47So 10, 12, 15, 20, 25. I mean, who knows how long I'll even live.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51But the real impact of the sentence is if it's a very long sentence,
0:36:51 > 0:36:55you are more likely to go to a harsher prison.
0:36:56 > 0:37:01And so that's at least as much of the equation as the duration.
0:37:08 > 0:37:09Do I sign the book? OK.
0:37:09 > 0:37:13You've dealt with prisoners who've gotten more than 22 years,
0:37:13 > 0:37:16and you've still been able to get them into low security?
0:37:16 > 0:37:18Correct.
0:37:18 > 0:37:21And you're optimistic that'll happen in this case?
0:37:21 > 0:37:26I am optimistic. I think the one hedge to that would be
0:37:26 > 0:37:29if the sentence is greater than 30 to 35 years.
0:37:29 > 0:37:30I guess just generally,
0:37:30 > 0:37:34reading what you wrote about low-security prisons,
0:37:34 > 0:37:40it sounded a little more grim than the impression I had when we spoke.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42Well, I don't want to whitewash it.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45So when you say it's a cubicle, I take it, they're not bars.
0:37:45 > 0:37:49No, it's a dormitory.
0:37:49 > 0:37:51Some are up to 12 men.
0:37:51 > 0:37:54And in that case, the room is going to be a little bigger.
0:37:54 > 0:37:56- Still typically bunk beds? - Correct.
0:37:56 > 0:37:59I just have to figure out a way to sleep.
0:37:59 > 0:38:01My biggest fear is having somebody who snores next to me.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04- It's a chronic problem.- Because that was the worst thing I...
0:38:04 > 0:38:07You'll get earplugs, they're all over the institution.
0:38:07 > 0:38:10How bad is the food? The food at the low security.
0:38:10 > 0:38:12First of all, I thought you get a few choices.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15You get a few choices, and it's cafeteria style.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18- Like there's hotdogs, I can't eat. - From what I understand,
0:38:18 > 0:38:22it's all edible, you can consume a balanced diet.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24It's not like I get there - hotdog, take it or leave it?
0:38:24 > 0:38:27- There is some choice.- You'll recognise it's entirely different.
0:38:27 > 0:38:29You talked about job assignments.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32Everybody has a job?
0:38:32 > 0:38:36- You would absolutely have a job. - Generally, how much of the day is...
0:38:36 > 0:38:38..am I required to work?
0:38:38 > 0:38:39Whatever the job entails.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42You could do something that would last 45 minutes to an hour.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45It could be something very menial.
0:38:45 > 0:38:50What comes to mind for you really is first and foremost the law library.
0:38:50 > 0:38:52- There is a lot of down time. - A few hours a day.
0:38:52 > 0:38:54I don't want to be on my hands and knees eight hours a day,
0:38:54 > 0:38:57if I can avoid it, or in the kitchen eight hours a day.
0:38:57 > 0:39:00They're not going to make you do anything that's physically arduous
0:39:00 > 0:39:03that's going to be a problem.
0:39:03 > 0:39:07You're going to find yourself doing something worthwhile.
0:39:07 > 0:39:09These funds did look into my background,
0:39:09 > 0:39:12they did look into my relationship with Mr Solow,
0:39:12 > 0:39:15they did look into my credibility.
0:39:15 > 0:39:19I wasn't just sort of a salesman who was peddling securities
0:39:19 > 0:39:22or notes to a bunch of funds.
0:39:22 > 0:39:24I sort of made them come to me, I never pushed this,
0:39:24 > 0:39:27my style was to not seem overly interested.
0:39:27 > 0:39:32I was accustomed to carrying myself with a feeling of success
0:39:32 > 0:39:33because I had been successful.
0:39:46 > 0:39:48From a very early age,
0:39:48 > 0:39:52I was just really driven to be successful in school.
0:39:52 > 0:39:55I was always President of the Student Council,
0:39:55 > 0:40:00President of my class, I had a wide circle of friends.
0:40:00 > 0:40:05Best Looking I didn't win, but I did win Most Likely To Succeed, yeah.
0:40:12 > 0:40:15I grew up in a very normal upper middle class home on Long Island.
0:40:17 > 0:40:20My father was an immigrant from Europe.
0:40:20 > 0:40:22Came here during the beginning of World War II.
0:40:22 > 0:40:25I have a sister who is three years older than me
0:40:25 > 0:40:28and a brother who's six years younger than me.
0:40:28 > 0:40:31We had a happy family life.
0:40:39 > 0:40:41My father owned movie theatres
0:40:41 > 0:40:45so I spent most of my childhood in the movie theatres.
0:40:45 > 0:40:47That's where I would go every weekend,
0:40:47 > 0:40:50sit in the front row and watch the movies
0:40:50 > 0:40:53or go up to the projection booth and watch the movie, or sell popcorn.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56I was fortunate that I didn't have to pay for school.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59My parents paid for college and law school.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01I went to college at Yale and law school at Harvard.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04You know, you feel a little bit, when you go to those schools,
0:41:04 > 0:41:06you go around feeling,
0:41:06 > 0:41:08I won't say superior,
0:41:08 > 0:41:10but you feel that maybe you're meant to succeed.
0:41:12 > 0:41:15Like the world could be your oyster if you take advantage of it.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33In '04, 5, 6 and 7, everybody who borrowed was willing to roll over.
0:41:33 > 0:41:36They were one-year notes, so when it became due at the end of the year
0:41:36 > 0:41:38they were willing to not demand the principal back
0:41:38 > 0:41:40but to roll it over at a higher interest rate.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43But starting in '07 and mainly in '08,
0:41:43 > 0:41:45several of the funds, which had lent a lot of money,
0:41:45 > 0:41:48simply weren't willing to roll over and wanted to be paid back.
0:41:48 > 0:41:49- NEWSREADER: - Credit markets are frozen.
0:41:49 > 0:41:53The United States economy is in the midst of a severe downturn.
0:41:53 > 0:41:57Eight million American families are expected to lose their homes.
0:41:57 > 0:41:59The whole process became more difficult as time went on.
0:41:59 > 0:42:04Some of the funds wanted to have contact with representatives
0:42:04 > 0:42:07either of the purported lender or the purported accounting firm.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15And so, on some occasions, I, actually, over the phone,
0:42:15 > 0:42:18would impersonate such people.
0:42:18 > 0:42:21And on a couple of occasions, it was actually done in person.
0:42:27 > 0:42:31At that point it was almost as much as being afraid of going backwards.
0:42:31 > 0:42:33I was hurtling forward and feeling that I just had to sustain.
0:42:33 > 0:42:34I had to grow the firm.
0:42:34 > 0:42:38It was terribly important to me that I have my name on a law firm.
0:42:38 > 0:42:40I couldn't face the idea of it all falling apart on me.
0:42:40 > 0:42:44I couldn't tolerate the idea people that I thought were less talented
0:42:44 > 0:42:48had more status, recognition or more wealth.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51If this didn't succeed, there was nothing left.
0:42:55 > 0:42:58Is he offensive? He gets the weed smoking for the...
0:42:58 > 0:43:00THEY LAUGH
0:43:00 > 0:43:04He failed the marijuana test and now he's hitting home runs every day.
0:43:04 > 0:43:08And marijuana apparently is not against Major League rules.
0:43:08 > 0:43:12And he's hitting home runs every day and he flunked a marijuana test.
0:43:12 > 0:43:15So now the whole team will probably start smoking marijuana now.
0:43:15 > 0:43:17He hardly plays any of the year.
0:43:17 > 0:43:19He's injured for a third of it and suspended for a third of it,
0:43:19 > 0:43:21so only plays a third of the year.
0:43:21 > 0:43:24I checked out, in the prisons I can go to,
0:43:24 > 0:43:27I checked out whether they get Met games.
0:43:27 > 0:43:28And one does and one doesn't,
0:43:28 > 0:43:31so I'm going to try to go to the one that does.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34The federal prison in New Jersey gets Met games.
0:43:34 > 0:43:35Pennsylvania doesn't.
0:43:35 > 0:43:38- What do they get in Pennsylvania? - They get the Philly games.
0:43:38 > 0:43:40And that would be painful to watch Philly games.
0:43:40 > 0:43:42What is going on?
0:43:44 > 0:43:47All the phone calls are monitored.
0:43:49 > 0:43:54If you are on the phone longer than 50 minutes, it's cut off.
0:43:54 > 0:43:56And you only have 300 minutes a month.
0:43:56 > 0:43:58The hard part about phone calls is
0:43:58 > 0:43:59you don't want to use up your minutes.
0:43:59 > 0:44:02If we spend the first nine minutes talking about fantasy baseball,
0:44:02 > 0:44:05there's not much time left and that's what we end up doing.
0:44:05 > 0:44:11In the old days, before email, texting, Twittering, phonebook,
0:44:11 > 0:44:15Facebook, MySpace, texting, yapping, whatever they do,
0:44:15 > 0:44:18people wrote letters.
0:44:19 > 0:44:22- I've written a letter. - When have you written a letter?
0:44:22 > 0:44:25A few months ago I got a letter from myself.
0:44:25 > 0:44:28You got a letter from yourself? That's typical of this age.
0:44:28 > 0:44:30- People write letters to themselves. - No, no.
0:44:30 > 0:44:33In high school, before you graduate they make you write a letter.
0:44:33 > 0:44:36So you did it for homework? I'm talking about at your own volition.
0:44:36 > 0:44:40They have to teach you in high school how to write a letter
0:44:40 > 0:44:43because nobody ever heard of letters.
0:44:43 > 0:44:44You can't send it by email.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46You actually have to write it out,
0:44:46 > 0:44:50put it in an envelope, and a stamp and send it.
0:44:53 > 0:44:54I'll write letters, but...
0:44:54 > 0:44:58We're obviously going to try to see each other as often as we can.
0:44:58 > 0:45:03And speak on the phone and write back and forth to each other
0:45:03 > 0:45:05and do the best we can.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08Obviously it's not good.
0:45:11 > 0:45:13What can you do?
0:45:21 > 0:45:23- He was good last year. - He's been good every year.
0:45:23 > 0:45:25The guy's got a great talent.
0:45:25 > 0:45:29- But he never plays.- But his insanity finally caught up with him.
0:45:36 > 0:45:39'Absolutely every day, I'd ride up in the elevator,
0:45:39 > 0:45:42'and every day, in the 30 seconds it took me to get to my office,
0:45:42 > 0:45:45'I had two very clear mixed feelings.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48'On the one hand, I was, you know, that I was a sham,
0:45:48 > 0:45:52'and that if people only knew what I was doing, it would be horrible,
0:45:52 > 0:45:55'and felt truly very disgusted with myself.
0:45:57 > 0:46:00'But at the same time, I was going to work and I saw there were
0:46:00 > 0:46:05'hundreds of people employed at the firm who seemed very happy.
0:46:05 > 0:46:09'I was supporting financially a lot of people and their families.'
0:46:09 > 0:46:12'I won't say that I felt like, you know, Robin Hood,
0:46:12 > 0:46:16but there was a sense of real gratification
0:46:16 > 0:46:19from at least having the appearance of running a large business
0:46:19 > 0:46:24where people for the most part seemed to be very, very pleased.
0:46:24 > 0:46:27LAUGHTER AND CHATTER
0:46:27 > 0:46:29Sal LaMonica's going to like this.
0:46:29 > 0:46:32When there's a big football hole in the window!
0:46:32 > 0:46:35DREIER LAUGHS
0:46:35 > 0:46:39We agree that 12 years is a rational sentence,
0:46:39 > 0:46:41but the government's asking for 145 years.
0:46:41 > 0:46:44Look, all these cases involve many more victims than me.
0:46:44 > 0:46:47Obviously Madoff did, but even the stock cases did.
0:46:47 > 0:46:50They said I had 26 victims. I'm not minimising the 26 victims.
0:46:50 > 0:46:53I think we should make a great deal more of the fact,
0:46:53 > 0:46:56not only that I only had 26 victims, but that,
0:46:56 > 0:46:59if it's said in the right way, not to minimise these people too,
0:46:59 > 0:47:03but this is not a case where widows and orphans lost their money,
0:47:03 > 0:47:04lost their life savings.
0:47:04 > 0:47:06People were losing their jobs...
0:47:06 > 0:47:08People lost their jobs, I understand yes.
0:47:08 > 0:47:09And we don't minimise that.
0:47:09 > 0:47:12You know what, Marc? To stand before court on the day of sentencing,
0:47:12 > 0:47:15and say "Hey, there were only 26 victims here."
0:47:15 > 0:47:17These are arguments the judge is expecting.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20These are the arguments, "Well, it was only a hedge fund,"
0:47:20 > 0:47:23and we make those arguments that it was only a hedge fund,
0:47:23 > 0:47:27like there weren't real people that invested in the hedge fund.
0:47:27 > 0:47:30There's no right way to say that there were only 26 victims.
0:47:30 > 0:47:34Not in writing, not orally, there's just no right way to say that.
0:47:34 > 0:47:37Jerry and I see the same kind of back-and-forth
0:47:37 > 0:47:40at every sentencing where the defendant tries
0:47:40 > 0:47:43or ends up minimising himself a little bit.
0:47:43 > 0:47:47The government has an opening and they stand up for 10 minutes
0:47:47 > 0:47:51and hammer on bad conduct, minimization, everything,
0:47:51 > 0:47:53I feel like the way we... Jerry wrote it,
0:47:53 > 0:47:55we're kind of pulling this thing. We're saying,
0:47:55 > 0:47:59"Look, everything that you're going to say he did bad, he did bad."
0:47:59 > 0:48:02You're not going to get up and tell the judge anything new,
0:48:02 > 0:48:05John Streeter, that we're not telling him up front.
0:48:05 > 0:48:08- I know.- But here's why... - The weakness in your approach...
0:48:08 > 0:48:10There's no weakness in his approach.
0:48:10 > 0:48:13You are minimising what you're doing, what you've done.
0:48:13 > 0:48:16But you have to. No matter what we say, they're going to go in,
0:48:16 > 0:48:19and the judge is going to agree, that I'm the devil.
0:48:19 > 0:48:21And you're saying we shouldn't counter that.
0:48:21 > 0:48:24- I can't agree with that.- Here's the problem, Here's the problem.
0:48:24 > 0:48:28You know, from at least two appearances in court,
0:48:28 > 0:48:32that Judge Rakoff gratuitously said, uh, it was gratuitous,
0:48:32 > 0:48:35but nevertheless, he said that he viewed this
0:48:35 > 0:48:37as one of the most audacious frauds in history.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40We don't have facts that will change his mind, with all respect.
0:48:40 > 0:48:44Yes, mine is one of the most audacious crimes in history,
0:48:44 > 0:48:46but obviously all those other 400 million,
0:48:46 > 0:48:47by definition, were very audacious.
0:48:47 > 0:48:50I think there are two things, this is reading tea leaves,
0:48:50 > 0:48:53but one reason that led the judge to say that was not the amount of money
0:48:53 > 0:48:55but the manner in which the fraud was committed.
0:49:02 > 0:49:06'In October '08, one of the hedge funds wanted to meet
0:49:06 > 0:49:08'with a representative of Mr Solow's office
0:49:08 > 0:49:12'to be comfortable about the financial statements I had provided.
0:49:14 > 0:49:16'The fund wouldn't release the money
0:49:16 > 0:49:19'unless they got answers to some questions from Mr Solow's people.
0:49:20 > 0:49:25'So I staged a sort of impersonation at Mr Solow's office.
0:49:27 > 0:49:31'I told another person I would pay him a fee to impersonate somebody.'
0:49:31 > 0:49:34We went to Solow's offices and met with people there
0:49:34 > 0:49:36as I did the normal course
0:49:36 > 0:49:39and then I just stayed behind to use the conference room.
0:49:40 > 0:49:44And then had the hedge fund people join me in the conference room.
0:49:44 > 0:49:48We pretended to be answering their questions
0:49:48 > 0:49:51as if we were speaking for Mr Solow.
0:49:51 > 0:49:52The fund was satisfied
0:49:52 > 0:49:56and persuaded that everything was on the up-and-up, I guess.
0:49:58 > 0:50:00The morality of it did bother me but it didn't stop me.
0:50:00 > 0:50:02It's hard to explain that.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13Is the measure of being a bad person how much you stole?
0:50:13 > 0:50:16I think the great majority of us have transgressions,
0:50:16 > 0:50:19financial, moral transgressions all the time.
0:50:19 > 0:50:22So what we're saying is that it's the amount of money you stole
0:50:22 > 0:50:23that defines how bad you are?
0:50:23 > 0:50:25Maybe, but once you make the decision
0:50:25 > 0:50:28you're going to do something dishonest,
0:50:28 > 0:50:29am I so much worse than a shoplifter
0:50:29 > 0:50:31or somebody who cheats on their tax return
0:50:31 > 0:50:34simply because I had the opportunity?
0:50:34 > 0:50:36I don't buy into that entirely.
0:50:36 > 0:50:40I think how much you steal is much more a factor of opportunity
0:50:40 > 0:50:42than by how bad you are.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44So your argument is that you weren't so bad?
0:50:44 > 0:50:48I don't, I don't get it. On one hand you're saying
0:50:48 > 0:50:50you could make that point at the beginning,
0:50:50 > 0:50:52that we're not contesting the facts here
0:50:52 > 0:50:54or that the facts are particularly egregious,
0:50:54 > 0:50:59but what you want to go on to say, after that, is that what you did,
0:50:59 > 0:51:02in the whole spectrum of what others have done ain't that bad.
0:51:02 > 0:51:05And I think if you do that, if you do that, you're going to be...
0:51:05 > 0:51:07- You're not listening. - I'm listening...
0:51:07 > 0:51:09I didn't say it's not that bad,
0:51:09 > 0:51:11you're the one who's emphasising the law.
0:51:11 > 0:51:13You don't have to use words. Bad, good, anything.
0:51:13 > 0:51:16Here are other cases, here are the facts of those cases,
0:51:16 > 0:51:18here are the sentences of those cases, OK?
0:51:18 > 0:51:20Based on those cases we think we fit into 12 years.
0:51:20 > 0:51:23We don't have to say I'm a good guy, I'm a bad guy.
0:51:23 > 0:51:25If you don't tell him anything about
0:51:25 > 0:51:26my background, my case, my motivation,
0:51:26 > 0:51:29the number of my victims, how much people lost,
0:51:29 > 0:51:32and if you don't tell him about other cases, he's going to say,
0:51:32 > 0:51:34"The government stood up and said he's the devil,
0:51:34 > 0:51:36"I've never heard anything else from anybody other than...
0:51:36 > 0:51:38"He gets the worst." I don't understand it.
0:51:38 > 0:51:41This is the first time you're before him on a sentencing,
0:51:41 > 0:51:43and it's not my first time, I've been there,
0:51:43 > 0:51:45I don't want you... I know what you anticipate.
0:51:45 > 0:51:47I anticipate he's going to slaughter me.
0:51:47 > 0:51:51But if you get up there and say it's only 400 million,
0:51:51 > 0:51:54compared to others who have stolen more,
0:51:54 > 0:51:56you're going down a bad road with this judge.
0:51:56 > 0:51:58I'm saying my case is like these others.
0:51:58 > 0:52:01Here's another case of 400 million, he got 12 years.
0:52:01 > 0:52:03He could be a devil. OK, I'm the same devil.
0:52:05 > 0:52:09Well, we could say it in a way like, um,
0:52:09 > 0:52:13the sentence that we're proposing below the guidelines range
0:52:13 > 0:52:16is not unprecedented in cases throughout the country.
0:52:16 > 0:52:18And we could cite a few, something like that.
0:52:18 > 0:52:20Exactly. We don't have to compare myself...
0:52:20 > 0:52:22We can just give a thumbnail sketch of those cases.
0:52:22 > 0:52:23To show them it's not...
0:52:23 > 0:52:25Give a thumbnail sketch of those cases.
0:52:25 > 0:52:26Don't say I'm better than them.
0:52:26 > 0:52:29Say what we're proposing is not that outlandish, not unprecedented.
0:52:29 > 0:52:31You said it better than I did. That's my point.
0:52:31 > 0:52:33You've got to give him some reference point
0:52:33 > 0:52:36to show that what you're asking him to do is not off the wall.
0:52:36 > 0:52:40- We always work these things out. - We always put our heads together...
0:52:40 > 0:52:42We never have to even imply I'm a good guy.
0:52:42 > 0:52:45- I think you're not a bad guy but I'm not sentencing you.- Yeah.
0:52:45 > 0:52:47I'm not trying to hammer you with this.
0:52:47 > 0:52:50I just think that it enhances the argument you're making.
0:52:50 > 0:52:52- Mmm-hmm, OK, we'll do it. - If it's done the right way.
0:52:52 > 0:52:56We usually do it the right way. That's why you're sitting here now.
0:52:56 > 0:52:58Yes.
0:52:58 > 0:53:00Um, all right, uh...
0:53:03 > 0:53:05..as far as we know, Madoff's going ahead on Monday, I guess.
0:53:05 > 0:53:08Yeah, I think that's definite now, it's written in stone.
0:53:08 > 0:53:10There are obviously a number of points
0:53:10 > 0:53:13that distinguish Madoff from your case.
0:53:13 > 0:53:16And, um, I'm looking forward to hearing what Judge Chin,
0:53:16 > 0:53:21the sentencing judge in Madoff's case, has to say on Monday
0:53:21 > 0:53:24because um, he essentially may give us points
0:53:24 > 0:53:27from which you will be favourably compared
0:53:27 > 0:53:28at the time of your sentence.
0:53:28 > 0:53:31Intuitively, I think that, uh,
0:53:31 > 0:53:33we'll gain a benefit from that sentencing proceeding.
0:53:33 > 0:53:35That's why, I always wanted to be sentenced after him,
0:53:35 > 0:53:38we talked about that months ago. That's why it turned out this way.
0:53:38 > 0:53:39We'll see what happens on Monday.
0:53:42 > 0:53:45'In October of '08 I got a call from an attorney who said
0:53:45 > 0:53:48'he was counsel for the accounting firm
0:53:48 > 0:53:52'whose name I had falsified the financial statements for Mr Solow.
0:53:53 > 0:53:56'At the same time he had Mr Solow on the phone himself.'
0:53:59 > 0:54:02There had been one or two occasions in the past
0:54:02 > 0:54:05where a hedge fund had called either Mr Solow's office directly
0:54:05 > 0:54:08or somebody directly, and I had gotten a call from somebody,
0:54:08 > 0:54:13"What's this all about?" And I had been able to finesse it
0:54:13 > 0:54:17because I had...I don't know, I was able to say,
0:54:17 > 0:54:19"I'll get to the bottom of this," and I got back to them
0:54:19 > 0:54:21with some explanation that seemed to satisfy them
0:54:21 > 0:54:24that it was all a misunderstanding and that was the end of it.
0:54:24 > 0:54:27This time was much more...I knew it would be much more difficult
0:54:27 > 0:54:31because several people were involved at the highest level.
0:54:31 > 0:54:33But I said the same thing, I said,
0:54:33 > 0:54:35"I don't know what this is about.
0:54:35 > 0:54:37"I'll look into it and get back to you."
0:54:37 > 0:54:39But I was quite certain that, uh...
0:54:42 > 0:54:44..that there was probably no way out.
0:54:51 > 0:54:56'And at the same time, I had trips scheduled to Dubai
0:54:56 > 0:55:00about the prospect of doing business or even setting up an office.
0:55:00 > 0:55:03So I can remember very clearly in the first week of November
0:55:03 > 0:55:08that I was sitting in Dubai fielding these phone calls.
0:55:08 > 0:55:09And...
0:55:09 > 0:55:11I can remember...
0:55:14 > 0:55:16..contemplating the possibility of staying in Dubai.
0:55:20 > 0:55:23'Dubai is a country with no extradition treaties.
0:55:23 > 0:55:27'I had over 100 million in the bank. Could have stayed in Dubai.'
0:55:32 > 0:55:33So I was a little distracted by that
0:55:33 > 0:55:36while I was having meetings all day with prospective clients
0:55:36 > 0:55:39knowing that...
0:55:39 > 0:55:42I was likely to be arrested when I returned to New York.
0:55:43 > 0:55:47But I decided not to...
0:55:47 > 0:55:49I decided not to stay there,
0:55:49 > 0:55:54I guess, primarily because I decided
0:55:54 > 0:55:57that I just couldn't live a life apart from my kids
0:55:57 > 0:55:59and I guess I still held out the hope
0:55:59 > 0:56:01that somehow some way I could talk my way out of this.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11TV BLARES
0:56:22 > 0:56:23What's that on the table?
0:56:23 > 0:56:28I made you Nova and tuna,
0:56:28 > 0:56:31- like nobody in the world can make it.- That's good.
0:56:31 > 0:56:34The best Nova...
0:56:34 > 0:56:36I don't want to know anything about it.
0:56:36 > 0:56:39In terms of the details, it's not going to serve me anything.
0:56:39 > 0:56:41Basically there was some financial wrongdoing
0:56:41 > 0:56:43and it shouldn't have been done.
0:56:43 > 0:56:47And, uh, that's basically the extent of it.
0:56:51 > 0:56:54I guess you were saying, lessons and learning things,
0:56:54 > 0:56:55I guess that, uh...
0:56:56 > 0:57:01..that uh, even something so good
0:57:01 > 0:57:03like what he was trying to build,
0:57:03 > 0:57:05I guess sometimes the means don't justify the ends.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08And that, uh, you have to look at the bigger picture
0:57:08 > 0:57:10and understand the consequences of what you're doing.
0:57:10 > 0:57:14Instead of muscling it through, if you bring it all the way back,
0:57:14 > 0:57:16and you turn your hips then fly everything open...
0:57:16 > 0:57:19That's what they do, watch. You've got to turn your hips on your serve.
0:57:19 > 0:57:21Mom would probably be good to play with now.
0:57:21 > 0:57:23You should hit some balls with her.
0:57:23 > 0:57:25But you gotta play a little bit.
0:57:25 > 0:57:28I don't think the worst moment has happened yet.
0:57:28 > 0:57:31The worst moment will be, uh, when,
0:57:31 > 0:57:34I guess, when this is all over and done with
0:57:34 > 0:57:36and uh, we have less time together.
0:57:36 > 0:57:38I don't think the worst part has happened yet.
0:57:39 > 0:57:43I've never been to New York for July 4th.
0:57:44 > 0:57:47And every July 4th, they've had fireworks on the East River.
0:57:49 > 0:57:52This is the first year in my life I'll be in New York on July 4th,
0:57:52 > 0:57:54and they moved the fireworks to the Hudson.
0:57:54 > 0:57:56So I would have had a perfect, perfect, perfect view
0:57:56 > 0:57:59of the fireworks on the East River, and now...
0:57:59 > 0:58:02You'll probably still be able to see them down by Chelsea Piers.
0:58:02 > 0:58:04Maybe you can see them.
0:58:08 > 0:58:10You like to pull out the insides of the bagel.
0:58:10 > 0:58:12I don't know, did you put this in the toaster?
0:58:12 > 0:58:15Yeah. It's perfect. It's toasty.
0:58:17 > 0:58:20Well, breakfast at Wimbledon.
0:58:23 > 0:58:25Bob, I gotta get out.
0:58:27 > 0:58:29So call me when you get there, all right?
0:58:29 > 0:58:32Have fun. Have a good time, OK?
0:58:47 > 0:58:49- Have fun.- Yep.
0:58:50 > 0:58:53You got... He's got his phone? You got your phone?
0:58:53 > 0:58:56- Spence?- What? - You have your phone?- Yeah.
0:59:24 > 0:59:28I did this at a time when I was extremely isolated.
0:59:28 > 0:59:31I didn't have a friend or a business colleague
0:59:31 > 0:59:34or anybody that I was sharing this with.
0:59:34 > 0:59:36I wasn't seeing a therapist.
0:59:36 > 0:59:39I think I felt quite desperate to feel better about myself,
0:59:39 > 0:59:40that time was sort of running out,
0:59:40 > 0:59:44that my career had not been what I'd hoped it would be.
0:59:46 > 0:59:5030 years into my career, if this firm was going to fail,
0:59:50 > 0:59:52there was no place for me to go.
0:59:58 > 1:00:00You know, I guess, um...
1:00:00 > 1:00:02if my personal life had been more gratifying
1:00:02 > 1:00:07I probably would have felt less of a need to...
1:00:07 > 1:00:08to um...
1:00:12 > 1:00:15..reach for something else.
1:00:32 > 1:00:34- RADIO:- 'Good morning, everyone.
1:00:34 > 1:00:36'Bernard Madoff has just been sentenced to serve
1:00:36 > 1:00:38'a maximum 150 years in prison.
1:00:38 > 1:00:43'Meanwhile, Madoff's lawyers said 12 years was more appropriate.'
1:00:43 > 1:00:46TV: 'Bernie Madoff, sentenced to life behind bars.'
1:00:46 > 1:00:49'150 years which is what prosecutors were asking.'
1:00:49 > 1:00:53'2009 could go down in history as the year of the Ponzi Scheme.
1:00:53 > 1:00:56'The disgraced Bernie Madoff gets 150 years.
1:00:56 > 1:01:00'Prosecutors will ask for 145 years for Marc Dreier
1:01:00 > 1:01:04'who defrauded investors out of a mere 400 million.
1:01:04 > 1:01:06'Are the feds doing themselves a disservice though,
1:01:06 > 1:01:08'asking for hundreds of years?
1:01:08 > 1:01:11'Or should we throw them all in jail and throw away the key?'
1:01:11 > 1:01:14It's painful for me to talk to you about this,
1:01:14 > 1:01:16and I don't get any relief from talking about this.
1:01:16 > 1:01:19Each time I talk about it, it's a reminder of how much I've hurt my children,
1:01:19 > 1:01:21and how foolish I was, and how could I...
1:01:21 > 1:01:24Just to hear the words sounds like I'm talking about somebody else.
1:01:24 > 1:01:25It doesn't make me feel better.
1:01:25 > 1:01:27It sounds like when I tell you what I did,
1:01:27 > 1:01:30it sounds like I'm talking about somebody else and I'm saying
1:01:30 > 1:01:32"How could anybody, especially me,
1:01:32 > 1:01:34"how could anybody have been this foolish
1:01:34 > 1:01:37"and done this to themselves?"
1:01:48 > 1:01:52Coming back to the US in the middle of November, a second fund,
1:01:52 > 1:01:56a larger fund, it became apparent to me had discovered the fraud.
1:01:56 > 1:01:59Again, by fortuity, they had...
1:02:01 > 1:02:06I had set up one of these phoney email accounts,
1:02:06 > 1:02:09and...apparently...
1:02:09 > 1:02:12if someone sent a message to that account it would actually come to me.
1:02:12 > 1:02:14So I'd be able to deal with it.
1:02:14 > 1:02:18But the guy from the fund evidently punched in the email address
1:02:18 > 1:02:20with one wrong letter.
1:02:20 > 1:02:22And so it bounced back to him.
1:02:22 > 1:02:25So I guess then he called Mr Solow's office directly
1:02:25 > 1:02:27to say is there another email address I can use?
1:02:27 > 1:02:31If he had not punched it in with the wrong letter that probably never would have happened.
1:02:31 > 1:02:32This hedge fund person called me and said
1:02:32 > 1:02:35"We think this whole thing's a fraud, we want our money back.
1:02:35 > 1:02:37And I did give them their money back the next day.
1:02:37 > 1:02:40I said, "It wasn't fraud but if you're unhappy, here's your money."
1:02:40 > 1:02:43I had gone from having 100 million two weeks earlier
1:02:43 > 1:02:47to having not only nothing, but having had to invade
1:02:47 > 1:02:50an escrow account of a client for about 40 million.
1:02:50 > 1:02:53In order to pay off that fund, I had taken the money
1:02:53 > 1:02:56from a client's escrow account at the firm.
1:02:57 > 1:03:02So then I had to pay back that money to the escrow account.
1:03:02 > 1:03:04And that money was becoming due final, final, final day
1:03:04 > 1:03:06first or second day of December.
1:03:06 > 1:03:09And I had to return the money to the escrow account
1:03:09 > 1:03:13because that client was withdrawing the money from the escrow account
1:03:13 > 1:03:14on that day.
1:03:14 > 1:03:18So that's when I became completely desperate and had to somehow borrow
1:03:18 > 1:03:2240 million to restore the money to that escrow account.
1:03:24 > 1:03:27I remember spending Thanksgiving with my family
1:03:27 > 1:03:31knowing that I would likely be arrested shortly after that.
1:03:31 > 1:03:33That was painful. I didn't talk to them about it
1:03:33 > 1:03:36but I think they saw that I was stressed.
1:03:38 > 1:03:42I could've gone to... I had my boat. It's a fast boat.
1:03:42 > 1:03:45I could've gone to Venezuela, I could have gone anywhere.
1:03:45 > 1:03:46But I decided not to.
1:03:46 > 1:03:51I knew that I had to somehow come up with 40 million very quickly.
1:03:51 > 1:03:56I tried to place bogus loans to some of the hedge funds
1:03:56 > 1:03:59that I had done that with before and couldn't do it.
1:03:59 > 1:04:02They didn't want to extend any more credit
1:04:02 > 1:04:04to the same so-called borrower which was Mr Solow.
1:04:04 > 1:04:10So I convinced this fund to do a similar Solow-type loan
1:04:10 > 1:04:12but to use a different entity that I had a relationship with
1:04:12 > 1:04:14as the so-called borrower.
1:04:22 > 1:04:27There was a pension fund in Toronto. Ontario teachers' pension fund.
1:04:27 > 1:04:28It's a very, very large pension fund.
1:04:28 > 1:04:31Probably the largest, maybe in the world.
1:04:31 > 1:04:35And once before when I was unable to use Mr Solow as a credit,
1:04:35 > 1:04:39I had used them as a credit on a smaller scale and it had worked.
1:04:39 > 1:04:42So I tried that again.
1:04:42 > 1:04:43So we did all the paperwork.
1:04:43 > 1:04:47They told me that they would lend the 40 million,
1:04:47 > 1:04:49so there was a period there for a day or two
1:04:49 > 1:04:50at the very end of November
1:04:50 > 1:04:53where I thought that I'd actually be able to do this.
1:04:55 > 1:04:57What actually went wrong in Toronto?
1:04:57 > 1:04:59People are making such a big deal about Toronto.
1:04:59 > 1:05:01The reason I got caught had nothing to do with Toronto.
1:05:01 > 1:05:04I got caught because the hedge fund said that they wanted
1:05:04 > 1:05:06the papers signed in person.
1:05:06 > 1:05:10So I came up with the preposterous idea of going up to Toronto
1:05:10 > 1:05:13and trying to impersonate the person who would be expected
1:05:13 > 1:05:15to sign the document.
1:05:15 > 1:05:17I got into the pension fund because I knew people in the office.
1:05:17 > 1:05:21I got the business card of the fellow whose name I would forge
1:05:21 > 1:05:23and I asked if I could use the conference room
1:05:23 > 1:05:25to make some phone calls.
1:05:25 > 1:05:30And that's where I was going to meet the representative of the hedge fund.
1:05:30 > 1:05:34I guess, the gods wanted to just toy with me a little bit.
1:05:34 > 1:05:37The hedge fund guy was literally three hours late.
1:05:37 > 1:05:39So I was sitting there for three hours thinking
1:05:39 > 1:05:41"This is the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life."
1:05:41 > 1:05:44He would call every hour saying, "I'll be there, I'll be there."
1:05:44 > 1:05:45I knew that something was wrong,
1:05:45 > 1:05:49so I had every opportunity for three hours to leave that office...
1:05:50 > 1:05:53..but I knew that if I went back to New York without the 40 million
1:05:53 > 1:05:55that the...
1:05:55 > 1:05:58all hell would break loose with that client.
1:05:58 > 1:06:01So, you know, just out of a completely irrational
1:06:01 > 1:06:04and desperate act, I waited there, the guy came,
1:06:04 > 1:06:07I forged the signature, I could tell that the guy was very suspicious.
1:06:07 > 1:06:11I left and went to the airport and I got a call on my cellphone
1:06:11 > 1:06:14from the hedge fund that something was wrong,
1:06:14 > 1:06:19that they weren't satisfied with the bona-fide of the signature.
1:06:19 > 1:06:22I guess the fellow from the hedge fund had asked the receptionist
1:06:22 > 1:06:26if I really was the person who I purported to be.
1:06:26 > 1:06:29Even though the receptionist didn't really know what my real name was,
1:06:29 > 1:06:33she knew that I wasn't the person that I purported to be.
1:06:33 > 1:06:37The head of the pension fund, or the head lawyer, I spoke with him on the phone.
1:06:37 > 1:06:39He said, "Look, something's very fishy here."
1:06:39 > 1:06:42And so then again I had the decision of getting on the plane or not...
1:06:47 > 1:06:51..and I made the completely irrational decision, I suppose.
1:06:51 > 1:06:55I went back to the pension fund to try to calm them down.
1:06:57 > 1:07:01I'm saying, you know, "these guys will probably arrest me when I get there."
1:07:04 > 1:07:08But I thought if I went back to the office of the pension fund,
1:07:08 > 1:07:10and tried to explain all this,
1:07:10 > 1:07:12that I could somehow talk my way out of it.
1:07:12 > 1:07:15And they arrested me when I walked into their office.
1:07:15 > 1:07:17And uh...
1:07:18 > 1:07:20..that's the end of my freedom.
1:07:20 > 1:07:22I've never had a day of freedom since.
1:07:22 > 1:07:24That was, I think, December 2nd.
1:07:36 > 1:07:38My parents had always urged me, you know,
1:07:38 > 1:07:41to try and have a proportionate life
1:07:41 > 1:07:45and not to measure success in terms of accomplishments or money.
1:07:45 > 1:07:47They always told me that but I didn't listen.
1:07:47 > 1:07:49My father died three years ago.
1:07:49 > 1:07:53Just a year or two before he died he seemed to realise that I was placing importance on the wrong things
1:07:53 > 1:07:56and he cautioned me to watch myself and I didn't listen.
1:07:56 > 1:07:59And I guess now I'm telling my children.
1:07:59 > 1:08:01Who knows if they'll listen.
1:08:09 > 1:08:11You had asked me earlier whether the judge...
1:08:11 > 1:08:13whether I thought this was a good judge.
1:08:13 > 1:08:17All you can ask for is somebody who is dedicated and smart
1:08:17 > 1:08:19and he has a reputation of being one of the most capable judges
1:08:19 > 1:08:23and he's sort of an independent thinker he makes decisions based on
1:08:23 > 1:08:27what he believes rather than on what other people are telling him
1:08:27 > 1:08:28is the right thing to do.
1:08:28 > 1:08:32Hopefully, he'll give a sentence based on his careful consideration
1:08:32 > 1:08:36of what makes sense, not just following, you know, the guidelines.
1:08:37 > 1:08:40I guess we'll see on Monday.
1:08:40 > 1:08:44But he's a very respected judge, and a very smart judge.
1:08:45 > 1:08:47I hope he's...
1:08:47 > 1:08:51You know, unfortunately, there's a lot with...
1:08:51 > 1:08:54there's a lot of this going on now, you know, I'm not the only case
1:08:54 > 1:08:56and so it's the sentiment...
1:08:56 > 1:09:00And hopefully not but maybe judges can get caught up in the idea
1:09:00 > 1:09:02that there's a lot of this going on
1:09:02 > 1:09:05and everybody should be treated the same.
1:09:05 > 1:09:07I think every case is different
1:09:07 > 1:09:11and hopefully, in my case, there's some factors that would...
1:09:11 > 1:09:16that would result in less of a sentence than otherwise.
1:09:16 > 1:09:20- Well, that's the case, it sounds like.- We'll see.
1:09:27 > 1:09:29- RADIO:- 'It's sentencing day for a prominent lawyer
1:09:29 > 1:09:33'who defrauded hedge funds out of more than 400 million.
1:09:33 > 1:09:37'The attorney, Marc Dreier, faces up to 145 years in prison
1:09:37 > 1:09:40'when he goes up before a judge in Manhattan Federal Court
1:09:40 > 1:09:42'at five o'clock today.'
1:09:43 > 1:09:47Everyone has to be out of the apartment tonight.
1:09:47 > 1:09:49We're moving things out of the apartment today.
1:09:49 > 1:09:53I don't know exactly when it has to be finished but it has to be finished today.
1:10:05 > 1:10:08I'm getting ready to go to jail, that's what I'm doing.
1:10:16 > 1:10:20At 11.30, please listen up, we're going to sell Marc Dreier's office.
1:10:20 > 1:10:23The computers, we've told you, they pulled the hard drives,
1:10:23 > 1:10:27there was sensitive information on them that the Government retained.
1:10:28 > 1:10:30You also have to mark the boxes.
1:10:38 > 1:10:40I did a lot of...
1:10:40 > 1:10:45you know, good things over the course of years
1:10:45 > 1:10:50which are obviously all overshadowed by the crime I engaged in.
1:10:50 > 1:10:55OK, now we have the paper shredder. If this paper shredder could talk!
1:10:55 > 1:10:57How much do I hear for this paper shredder?
1:10:57 > 1:11:0050, you want to bid? 55? 55?
1:11:05 > 1:11:10There's no way to put into words... you know, how much it saddens me
1:11:10 > 1:11:13to have inflicted this on my children.
1:11:13 > 1:11:18This great guilt at not providing for my kids financially.
1:11:19 > 1:11:23And of course there's...
1:11:23 > 1:11:26You know there's...
1:11:26 > 1:11:30They have my name which...
1:11:30 > 1:11:33I went from being a person who had a good name
1:11:33 > 1:11:35to a person who has a bad name.
1:11:35 > 1:11:38And they're saddled with that.
1:11:42 > 1:11:44I don't resist the punishment
1:11:44 > 1:11:51because that's the only way I have of feeling that I'm doing anything
1:11:51 > 1:11:52to atone for what I did.
1:11:54 > 1:11:59Of course, I don't want to spend the rest of my life in prison.
1:12:04 > 1:12:07This was Marc Dreier's desk.
1:12:07 > 1:12:11I hate to tell you what this cost. Over 10,000.
1:12:11 > 1:12:141,000 open it up, start it off at a 500 bid.
1:12:14 > 1:12:18500 bid open it up now. 500 bid.
1:12:18 > 1:12:21Last chance, congratulations, 500!
1:12:26 > 1:12:29I'm confident that the sentence will not be 145 years
1:12:29 > 1:12:31as the government requests.
1:12:31 > 1:12:34I don't think for a moment that it will be anything like that,
1:12:35 > 1:12:39Do I go down there with feelings of trepidation? Absolutely.
1:12:39 > 1:12:42Do I go down there understanding that it could be a disaster?
1:12:42 > 1:12:45Absolutely, but I just hope that reason will prevail.
1:12:48 > 1:12:51This is the saddest thing. I've had this dog for seven years.
1:12:51 > 1:12:53And I have to say goodbye to him today.
1:12:53 > 1:13:00Because him, I'll never see again. So, he's the one... My best friend.
1:13:23 > 1:13:26"Dear Judge Rakoff, please consider this letter in connection
1:13:26 > 1:13:29"with my sentencing on July 13th, 2009.
1:13:31 > 1:13:35"I have requested that my attorneys file this as an open letter
1:13:35 > 1:13:37"in the hope that it may do some good as a warning
1:13:37 > 1:13:39"to others not to follow in my path.
1:13:40 > 1:13:43"I know, of course, that no words can diminish the harm
1:13:43 > 1:13:45"I have caused to so many people.
1:13:45 > 1:13:47"I have betrayed the people I care about most,
1:13:47 > 1:13:53"and I suffer everyday from the shame and regret with which I will always have to live.
1:13:53 > 1:13:55"I expect and deserve a significant prison sentence.
1:13:56 > 1:14:01"I've lost my past and my future. I've lost everything a man can lose.
1:14:10 > 1:14:13"All that I have left in my life is the prospect
1:14:13 > 1:14:16"of still sharing in my children's lives, both while I am in prison
1:14:16 > 1:14:19"and, I pray, for some time thereafter.
1:14:24 > 1:14:26"I don't know what gives some men the strength of character
1:14:26 > 1:14:29"to lead virtuous lives for all of their lives, and what causes others,
1:14:29 > 1:14:31"such as myself, to lose their way.
1:14:40 > 1:14:42"There is no excuse for what I have done.
1:14:42 > 1:14:46"I will try to learn from this and hopefully others will as well."
1:15:20 > 1:15:25- I have nothing further, your honour. - Thank you, Mr Shargel.
1:15:27 > 1:15:30Mr Dreier is not going to get much sympathy from this court.
1:15:30 > 1:15:33This is a huge fraud but he is no Mr Madoff.
1:15:36 > 1:15:40There may be defendants like murderers who are beyond redemption
1:15:40 > 1:15:43but I don't feel that one can say that about Mr Dreier.
1:15:44 > 1:15:48There ought to be the possibility that he could serve his sentence
1:15:48 > 1:15:51and still, albeit as a senior citizen, have some time with his children.
1:15:52 > 1:15:56The defendant is sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment.
1:15:59 > 1:16:01Your honour, one more thing.
1:16:01 > 1:16:03I would ask that you recommend FCI federal prison facility
1:16:03 > 1:16:05at Allenwood.
1:16:05 > 1:16:08It's near New York and it'll give Mr Dreier the opportunity
1:16:08 > 1:16:10to be near his family, his children.
1:16:10 > 1:16:12I will so recommend.
1:16:13 > 1:16:16At this time, the marshals may take Mr Dreier.
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