0:00:02 > 0:00:04This film contains some strong language
0:00:04 > 0:00:06MUSIC: "Sugar Man" by Rodriguez
0:00:08 > 0:00:12# Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
0:00:13 > 0:00:17# Cos I'm tired of these scenes
0:00:18 > 0:00:22# For a blue coin won't you bring back
0:00:23 > 0:00:27# All those colours to my dreams?
0:00:29 > 0:00:34# Silver magic ships, you carry
0:00:34 > 0:00:38# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
0:00:41 > 0:00:43# Sugar Man... #
0:00:43 > 0:00:46I got my nickname from this song.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50When I was in the Army they used to mispronounce Segerman as Sugar Man.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52And then they just started calling me Sugar
0:00:52 > 0:00:53and that became my nickname.
0:00:54 > 0:00:56It's 40 years
0:00:56 > 0:01:00since this LP called Cold Fact by Rodriguez was released.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03And in South Africa it was a very popular album.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06It was one of the biggest albums of the day.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09But the thing was, we didn't know who this guy was.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12All our other rock stars, we had all the information we needed.
0:01:12 > 0:01:14But this guy? There was nothing.
0:01:14 > 0:01:17And then we found out that he had committed suicide.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20He set himself alight on stage
0:01:20 > 0:01:23and burnt to death in front of the audience.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26It was the most incredible thing. It wasn't just a suicide.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29It was probably the most grotesque suicide in rock history.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12THUNDER CRASHES
0:03:36 > 0:03:41The first time that I remember actually recognising him
0:03:41 > 0:03:43is Mike Theodore called me on the phone one day and said,
0:03:43 > 0:03:46"I have this artist I want you to come see with me.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48"This guy's name is Rodriguez,
0:03:48 > 0:03:50"he's working down by the Detroit River.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52"There's a bar down there,
0:03:52 > 0:03:54"down by the wharf riverside district.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57"Let's go see him tonight. I think you'll really like him."
0:03:57 > 0:04:01So that night, I remember, we pull up...
0:04:01 > 0:04:04away in this kinda isolated part of Detroit
0:04:04 > 0:04:07right on the side of the Detroit River,
0:04:07 > 0:04:08and you could see the mist in the air
0:04:08 > 0:04:10coming off the river. We could feel it.
0:04:10 > 0:04:14And we went inside there and, as we walked in the door,
0:04:14 > 0:04:17we could hear behind us the sound of the freighters
0:04:17 > 0:04:18as they're going down the river,
0:04:18 > 0:04:22and so it's like you're walking out of a Sherlock Holmes novel.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25You walk out of the mist and you go into this place,
0:04:25 > 0:04:27and inside the place it's all full of smoke,
0:04:27 > 0:04:29so there's a mist inside there.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Boom, hey, you know, it's a wall of smoke.
0:04:33 > 0:04:37Beer all over the place. Peanut shells. It was just a mess.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41And then you hear this strumming sound.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43Strumming and batting the guitar.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45HE MIMICS GUITAR
0:04:46 > 0:04:49And then you hear this voice.
0:04:49 > 0:04:50Strange voice.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52Finally, we walked through the smoke and I looked
0:04:52 > 0:04:55and there in the far corner I saw...
0:04:55 > 0:04:58I could see the shadow of a man and I couldn't see his face.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01I said, "What's the deal?" So we got a little closer.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07And you see this guy with his back to you.
0:05:07 > 0:05:12So all you see is his back and he's in a corner, singing.
0:05:12 > 0:05:16It was an ethereal scene, if you will.
0:05:16 > 0:05:21Foggy night, foghorns, smoke so thick you couldn't see through it.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24And here's this voice.
0:05:24 > 0:05:26Maybe it forced you to listen to the lyrics
0:05:26 > 0:05:28cos you couldn't see the guy's face.
0:05:28 > 0:05:29That's when we talked to him
0:05:29 > 0:05:31and figured we needed to do an album on him.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35The only writer that I had heard of, of that time period,
0:05:35 > 0:05:39was maybe Bob Dylan, that was writing that well.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43MUSIC: "Crucify Your Mind" by Rodriguez
0:06:01 > 0:06:04# Was it a huntsman or a player
0:06:04 > 0:06:06# That made you pay the cost
0:06:06 > 0:06:09# That now assumes relaxed positions
0:06:09 > 0:06:12# And prostitutes your loss?
0:06:12 > 0:06:15# Were you tortured by your own thirst
0:06:15 > 0:06:17# In those pleasures that you seek
0:06:17 > 0:06:20# That made you Tom the Curious
0:06:20 > 0:06:23# That makes you James the Weak?
0:06:32 > 0:06:37# And you claim you got something going
0:06:39 > 0:06:42# Something you call unique
0:06:45 > 0:06:48# But I've seen your self-pity showing
0:06:50 > 0:06:53# As the tears roll down your cheeks. #
0:06:55 > 0:06:59He was this wandering spirit around the city.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02And, uh, sometimes I might catch him in the corner.
0:07:02 > 0:07:06You know, Detroit's got its share of, uh, burned-out, desolate areas
0:07:06 > 0:07:10and I would occasionally see him, um,
0:07:10 > 0:07:12far away from The Brewery, and I wondered...
0:07:12 > 0:07:15and it just added to this mythology of him.
0:07:15 > 0:07:19Like, what is he doing? What is he doing? What does he do?
0:07:19 > 0:07:23I heard he did a little roofing, some construction work.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26Um, I think that's how he got his money at the time.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29He just was, you know... And I say this with love,
0:07:29 > 0:07:31I say this with respect, but,
0:07:31 > 0:07:34I thought he was just a...
0:07:34 > 0:07:38just not much more than a kind of a homeless person, you know?
0:07:38 > 0:07:41He just was a drifter. He was just... Um...
0:07:42 > 0:07:44I didn't know if he HAD a home, you know?
0:07:44 > 0:07:48He'd look like maybe he'd go from shelter to shelter or something.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56Detroit in the '70s was a hard place.
0:07:56 > 0:07:58Well, it's still a hard place.
0:07:58 > 0:08:03Lot of decay, lots of ruined houses. Real poverty exists in this city.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06And those streets were Rodriguez's natural habitat.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09Any time we met him to talk about what we were doing,
0:08:09 > 0:08:13he would always meet us on a corner somewhere in his neighbourhood.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15Most of the time he wasn't coming to my house.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18He'd say, "Meet me on the corner of this street and that street,"
0:08:18 > 0:08:20and we would be there.
0:08:20 > 0:08:23Uh, Mike and I would get out of our cars and park our cars,
0:08:23 > 0:08:24so we'd be standing on the corner,
0:08:24 > 0:08:26and we'd look round and he'd be there all of a sudden.
0:08:26 > 0:08:27He'd just show up.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30We thought he was like the inner city poet.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34You know? Putting his poems to music of what he saw.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37And it was definitely a very gritty look
0:08:37 > 0:08:39at what he saw on the streets of Detroit.
0:08:39 > 0:08:41What he saw in his neighbourhood.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43Who was walking around the streets.
0:08:43 > 0:08:45And the way he presented it in a song,
0:08:45 > 0:08:48I thought was very, very interesting.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51We were working at Tera-Shirma recording studio.
0:08:51 > 0:08:56When he opened up and sang, you went, "Whoa, this guy's got it."
0:08:56 > 0:09:01Rodriguez, at that time, had all the machinery in place.
0:09:02 > 0:09:06Big names, big money behind it. Circumstances were right.
0:09:06 > 0:09:07Why didn't it make it?
0:09:07 > 0:09:10That's the big question that today still haunts me.
0:09:10 > 0:09:15Did he get enough promotion? Did he do enough performances?
0:09:15 > 0:09:16Was he too political?
0:09:18 > 0:09:20Was there this or was there that?
0:09:20 > 0:09:22Should it have been green instead of orange?
0:09:22 > 0:09:25Should it have been a violin instead of an oboe?
0:09:25 > 0:09:28On and on you can go.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31But the end of the day is, if you listen to the stuff now, you'd say,
0:09:31 > 0:09:34"I don't understand it, he's right-on."
0:09:37 > 0:09:38I only heard him play once,
0:09:38 > 0:09:43and one of the songs that he had on his album, it was called...
0:09:44 > 0:09:46..The Sugar Man? Was it Sugar Man?
0:09:46 > 0:09:47Is that the name of the song?
0:09:47 > 0:09:50Um, I knew that guy, the Sugar Man.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54And his name was Volkswagen Cha... Volkswagen Frank!
0:09:54 > 0:09:55And he lived right around the corner
0:09:55 > 0:09:57and you used to go over to Volkswagen Frank's.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00You'd go in and get a little "sugar," if you know what I mean.
0:10:00 > 0:10:06# Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
0:10:06 > 0:10:10# Cos I'm tired of these scenes
0:10:10 > 0:10:15# For a blue coin won't you bring back
0:10:16 > 0:10:20# All those colours to my dreams?
0:10:21 > 0:10:26# Silver magic ships, you carry
0:10:26 > 0:10:31# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
0:10:33 > 0:10:36# Sugar Man
0:10:36 > 0:10:39# Met a false friend
0:10:39 > 0:10:43# On a lonely, dusty road
0:10:43 > 0:10:45# Lost my heart... #
0:10:46 > 0:10:49I got some photos here that I'd like to show you
0:10:49 > 0:10:55that I've kept since my days in England with Rodriguez.
0:10:55 > 0:10:56Let me see.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00Possibly it's in this book, I don't know where.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04These are all my photos from when I was acting.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08That's me, and that's Jimmy Dean. That was in 1955.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12Hang on, I think I've found them. Think they're in here.
0:11:14 > 0:11:16Yeah, here they are.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20Wow. Good Lord, here they are.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24You know, I haven't seen these pictures in almost 35 years.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30He's my most memorable artist.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33You know, I've produced a lot of great ones, but...
0:11:35 > 0:11:37..he's my most memorable.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39It's not just a talent.
0:11:41 > 0:11:42He's like...
0:11:42 > 0:11:45He's like a wise man, a prophet.
0:11:45 > 0:11:50He's way beyond just being a musical artist.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52And he probably could have done fantastically well
0:11:52 > 0:11:54if he had have continued.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57When I met him, they said, "Rodriguez, this is Steve Rowland.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00"He really likes your album". And Rodriguez said to me,
0:12:00 > 0:12:03"Well, did you like Cold Facts?"
0:12:03 > 0:12:06I said, "Man, I thought it was absolutely brilliant.
0:12:06 > 0:12:07"Absolutely brilliant.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11"I can't believe that this album didn't do anything.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14"It's just a fantastic album".
0:12:14 > 0:12:17So he played me what his next album was on...
0:12:17 > 0:12:19In those days you had cassettes.
0:12:19 > 0:12:21He had demos of this next album
0:12:21 > 0:12:24that he was going to call Coming From Reality.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29And I said, "Wow, man, this has got to be a smash.
0:12:29 > 0:12:30"These are great songs.
0:12:30 > 0:12:34"Little bit...little bit different from the others," I said.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36"But great songs".
0:12:36 > 0:12:39I said, "And a couple of them were so sad". You know.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42There's one in there that's absolutely a killer.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44It's one of the saddest songs that...
0:12:44 > 0:12:48I'm laughing, but it's one of the saddest songs
0:12:48 > 0:12:49that I've ever heard.
0:12:49 > 0:12:50And it's a very simple song.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52Hang on, I want to play this. Hang on.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55OK, listen to these words.
0:12:55 > 0:12:56MUSIC: "Cos" by Rodriguez
0:13:07 > 0:13:09# Cos I lost my job
0:13:12 > 0:13:15# Two weeks before Christmas... #
0:13:15 > 0:13:17Oh, man.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23# And I talked to Jesus at The Sewer
0:13:25 > 0:13:28# And the Pope said it was none of his goddamn business
0:13:33 > 0:13:36# While the rain drank champagne
0:13:38 > 0:13:41# My Estonian Archangel came and got me wasted
0:13:46 > 0:13:49# Cos the sweetest kiss I ever got
0:13:50 > 0:13:54# Is the one I've never tasted... #
0:13:57 > 0:14:00And it really makes me sad, because...
0:14:00 > 0:14:03that was the last song that we recorded.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06And that was the last song that Rodriguez ever recorded.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12And what makes it even sadder
0:14:12 > 0:14:16was the album was released in November of 1971,
0:14:16 > 0:14:20and we expected big things. And it did absolutely nothing.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25And then, two weeks before Christmas...
0:14:27 > 0:14:30..Sussex dropped him off the label.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34And the very first line in the song, as if premonition,
0:14:34 > 0:14:38was, "I lost my job two weeks before Christmas".
0:14:40 > 0:14:43Oh, man. I just think about that.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48This guy deserves recognition.
0:14:48 > 0:14:52Nobody in America had even heard of him.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55Nobody...
0:14:57 > 0:15:00Nobody even was interested in listening to him.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07How can that be? How can that be? Guy that writes like this.
0:15:08 > 0:15:09I mean...
0:15:11 > 0:15:14# Cos they told me everybody's got to pay their dues
0:15:16 > 0:15:19# And I explained that I had overpaid them
0:15:24 > 0:15:26# Cos the smell of her perfume
0:15:29 > 0:15:33# Echoes in my head still. #
0:16:01 > 0:16:03MUSIC: "Wonder" by Rodriguez
0:16:15 > 0:16:19# I wonder how many times you've been had
0:16:19 > 0:16:23# And I wonder how many plans have gone bad
0:16:23 > 0:16:27# I wonder how many times you had sex
0:16:27 > 0:16:32# And I wonder, do you know who'll be next? #
0:16:33 > 0:16:35It's still a bit of a mystery how the first copy of Cold Fact
0:16:35 > 0:16:38actually came to South Africa. But one of the stories I've heard
0:16:38 > 0:16:41is that there was an American girl and she came to South Africa
0:16:41 > 0:16:44to visit her boyfriend and brought a copy of the record with her.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47And her and him and all their friends really liked it
0:16:47 > 0:16:50and went out to try and buy it but you couldn't buy it.
0:16:50 > 0:16:52So they started taping copies and passing copies along.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55However it got here, however it germinated here,
0:16:55 > 0:16:59once it got here, it spread very quickly.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01# How much goin' have you got
0:17:01 > 0:17:06# And I wonder about your friends that are not
0:17:06 > 0:17:07# I wonder
0:17:08 > 0:17:10# I wonder
0:17:13 > 0:17:16# Wonder I do. #
0:17:16 > 0:17:20I remember I was in high school
0:17:20 > 0:17:24and we heard this song, "I wonder how many times you've had sex?"
0:17:24 > 0:17:26And at that time South Africa was very conservative.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29It was the height of apartheid,
0:17:29 > 0:17:32and there wasn't television here.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35That's how conservative it was, cos television was communist.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38It was really... You wouldn't believe.
0:17:39 > 0:17:40Everything was restricted,
0:17:40 > 0:17:42everything was censored. Everything was...
0:17:42 > 0:17:44And here's this guy singing this song.
0:17:44 > 0:17:47"Who's that?" Said, "That's Rodriguez".
0:17:47 > 0:17:51And he became something of a rebel sort of icon.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54But the strange thing was that we all bought his records.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57Everybody I knew had his records. I Wonder,
0:17:57 > 0:17:59that was the big song that everybody was singing
0:17:59 > 0:18:01and we all bought the record.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04And there he was on the cover, sort of a hippy with shades.
0:18:04 > 0:18:07But nobody knew anything about him. He was a mystery.
0:18:07 > 0:18:11Unlike other artists that you could read about from America,
0:18:11 > 0:18:14get to know something about them, there was zilch.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16Nobody knew anything.
0:18:16 > 0:18:20It was a mystery. We only had his picture on the cover of the record.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22MUSIC: "Jane S Piddy" by Rodriguez
0:18:22 > 0:18:23# Now you sit there thinking
0:18:23 > 0:18:26# Feeling insecure
0:18:26 > 0:18:28# The mocking court jester
0:18:28 > 0:18:31# Claims there is no proven cure
0:18:31 > 0:18:34# Go back to your chamber
0:18:34 > 0:18:36# Your eyes upon the wall
0:18:36 > 0:18:39# Cos you got no-one to listen
0:18:39 > 0:18:42# You got no-one to call
0:18:44 > 0:18:46# And you think I'm curious. #
0:18:46 > 0:18:49The album was exceptionally popular. To many of us South Africans,
0:18:49 > 0:18:51he was the soundtrack to our lives.
0:18:51 > 0:18:53In the mid-70s, if you walked into a random
0:18:53 > 0:18:55white, liberal, middle-class household
0:18:55 > 0:18:58that had a turntable and a pile of pop records
0:18:58 > 0:19:00and if you flipped through the records you would always see
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Abbey Road by The Beatles.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04You would always see Bridge Over Troubled Water
0:19:04 > 0:19:06by Simon and Garfunkel.
0:19:06 > 0:19:08And you would always see Cold Fact by Rodriguez.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12To us, it was one of the most famous records of all time.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15The message it had was: "Be anti-establishment".
0:19:15 > 0:19:17One song's called Anti-Establishment Blues.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19We didn't know what the word "anti-establishment" was
0:19:19 > 0:19:22until it cropped up on a Rodriguez song and then we found out
0:19:22 > 0:19:25it's OK to protest against your society,
0:19:25 > 0:19:28to be angry with your society.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31Because we lived in a society
0:19:31 > 0:19:35where every means was used to prevent apartheid from,
0:19:35 > 0:19:37you know, coming to an end...
0:19:38 > 0:19:41..this album somehow had in it...
0:19:41 > 0:19:47lyrics that almost set us free as oppressed peoples.
0:19:49 > 0:19:51Any revolution needs an anthem
0:19:51 > 0:19:53and, in South Africa, Cold Fact was the album
0:19:53 > 0:19:56that gave people permission
0:19:56 > 0:19:59to free their minds and to start thinking differently.
0:19:59 > 0:20:01MUSIC: "The Establishment Blues" by Rodriguez
0:20:01 > 0:20:05# The mayor hides the crime rate Council woman hesitates
0:20:05 > 0:20:09# Public gets irate But forgets the vote date
0:20:09 > 0:20:13# This system's going to fall soon To an angry young tune
0:20:13 > 0:20:16# And that's a concrete cold fact... #
0:20:16 > 0:20:19It may seem strange that South African record companies
0:20:19 > 0:20:21didn't do more to try and track down Rodriguez,
0:20:21 > 0:20:23but, actually, if you look back at the time
0:20:23 > 0:20:26we were in the middle of apartheid, the height of apartheid.
0:20:26 > 0:20:27South Africa was under sanctions
0:20:27 > 0:20:29from countries from all over the world.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31South African musicians were not allowed to play overseas.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34No foreign acts were allowed to visit South Africa.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36It was a closed-door situation
0:20:36 > 0:20:38between South Africa and the rest of the world.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42# Woke up this morning with an ache in my head
0:20:42 > 0:20:46# I splashed on my clothes as I spilled out of bed
0:20:46 > 0:20:50# I opened the window to listen to the news
0:20:50 > 0:20:54# But all I heard was the establishment's blues... #
0:20:54 > 0:20:57The countries around the world were saying horrible things
0:20:57 > 0:20:58about the apartheid government
0:20:58 > 0:21:01but we didn't know because they controlled the news.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04The majority of the population had been marginalized
0:21:04 > 0:21:08and forced out of commerce and areas.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10It was what had happened in Nazi Germany.
0:21:10 > 0:21:12It was a spin-off from Nazi Germany,
0:21:12 > 0:21:14but if a newspaper published it, they'd get prosecuted.
0:21:14 > 0:21:15So, because of that,
0:21:15 > 0:21:18South Africa had achieved a pariah status in the world.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21There were cultural boycotts. There were sporting boycotts.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24It was a very isolated society. So we were cut off.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27We all knew apartheid was wrong, but, living in South Africa,
0:21:27 > 0:21:30there wasn't much, as a white person, you could do about it,
0:21:30 > 0:21:32cos the government was very strict.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34It was a military state, to a large degree.
0:21:34 > 0:21:35If you spoke out against apartheid,
0:21:35 > 0:21:38you could be thrown into prison for three years.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40So although a lot of whites were part of the struggle,
0:21:40 > 0:21:42the majority of whites were not.
0:21:42 > 0:21:46You were watched. There were spies. It was scary and people were scared.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49But out of the Afrikaans community emerged
0:21:49 > 0:21:52a group of Afrikaans musicians, songwriters,
0:21:52 > 0:21:55and, for them, when they heard Rodriguez,
0:21:55 > 0:21:56it was like a voice spoke to them
0:21:56 > 0:22:00and said, "Guys, there's a way out. There's a way out.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03"You can write music. You can write imagery.
0:22:03 > 0:22:05"You can sing, you can perform".
0:22:05 > 0:22:08And that was where, really, the first opposition to apartheid
0:22:08 > 0:22:11came from inside the Afrikaans community.
0:22:11 > 0:22:14It was these young Afrikaans guys and, to a man,
0:22:14 > 0:22:17they'll tell you they were influenced by Rodriguez.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19Koos Kombuis. Willem Moller.
0:22:19 > 0:22:21The late Johannes Kerkorrel.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23The guys who were regarded
0:22:23 > 0:22:26as the icons of the Afrikaans music revolution
0:22:26 > 0:22:29will all tell you, "Rodriguez was our guy".
0:22:29 > 0:22:30THEY SING
0:22:32 > 0:22:34We call it the Voelvry movement
0:22:34 > 0:22:37of Afrikaans artists singing against apartheid.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39All of us listened to Rodriguez at some point. All of us.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41It had an enormous impact.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44It made you just think that there's another way.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48What's presented to you by the establishment isn't all theirs.
0:22:48 > 0:22:53- # Set if off, set if off - Set if off, set if off
0:22:53 > 0:22:56- # Set if off, set it off - Set if off... #
0:22:56 > 0:22:59The biggest hit was a song called Set It Off
0:22:59 > 0:23:02which was when PW Botha was the president then.
0:23:02 > 0:23:06The real bad guy. When he came on TV, he used to talk like that.
0:23:07 > 0:23:10And this song said, "Switch it off, just switch off the TV."
0:23:18 > 0:23:21So what lines do you think were the lines they had problem with?
0:23:21 > 0:23:23Ah, gee whiz, it's all of them.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26"Sugar Man, won't you hurry Cos I'm tired of these scenes
0:23:26 > 0:23:30"For a blue coin, won't you bring back all those colours to my dreams?"
0:23:30 > 0:23:32The most difficult ones is probably
0:23:32 > 0:23:36"Silver magic ships, you carry Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane".
0:23:36 > 0:23:38And what is that?
0:23:38 > 0:23:40Uh...
0:23:40 > 0:23:41I'm going to leave that to you.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43THEY CHUCKLE
0:23:43 > 0:23:45- But it's drugs? - It's certainly drugs.
0:23:45 > 0:23:49During the apartheid years, it was just impossible to play it.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51And what happened if you did play it?
0:23:51 > 0:23:54Well, you couldn't. I'd like to show you why.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01Right, here we have the album, the vinyl.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05At the back of the sleeve you'll see a sticker that says "Avoid".
0:24:05 > 0:24:09But when you open the album and take it out from its sleeve...
0:24:09 > 0:24:13you would see that they have scratched that particular song
0:24:13 > 0:24:16with a sharp tool to make sure that it would not go out on air.
0:24:16 > 0:24:21And that's the way that they banned the music which, in my mind,
0:24:21 > 0:24:23was quite a brutal way of ensuring the song
0:24:23 > 0:24:25would never be heard on the air.
0:24:25 > 0:24:30Most of those tracks were on the banned list at SABC
0:24:30 > 0:24:33and they ran the broadcast industry completely.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36There weren't any independent radio stations or TV stations.
0:24:36 > 0:24:38Obviously, when that word got out,
0:24:38 > 0:24:42it just made the record more desirable.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44You know, it's like having something banned.
0:24:44 > 0:24:47You're 16, 17 years old and you've got something that's banned.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49It was absolutely perfect.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52MUSIC: "Can't Get Away" by Rodriguez
0:25:09 > 0:25:11# Born in the troubled city
0:25:12 > 0:25:15# In rock'n'roll, USA
0:25:15 > 0:25:19# In the shadow of the tallest building
0:25:19 > 0:25:22# I vowed I would break away
0:25:23 > 0:25:27# Listened to the Sunday actors
0:25:27 > 0:25:29# But all they would ever say
0:25:29 > 0:25:33# That you can't get away from it
0:25:33 > 0:25:36# No, you can't get away... #
0:25:36 > 0:25:39Cold Fact was just one of the albums we had in our collections,
0:25:39 > 0:25:44and for 10, 20 years, it was just a record we listened to and enjoyed.
0:25:44 > 0:25:47But then a pivotal event happened that changed everything for me.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49We were down in Camps Bay beach.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52We were sitting around on the beach and a friend of mine,
0:25:52 > 0:25:54a woman, who was from South Africa,
0:25:54 > 0:25:58but she had got married and emigrated to Los Angeles,
0:25:58 > 0:26:03she said to me, "Where can I buy Cold Fact in South Africa?"
0:26:03 > 0:26:06And I turned round and I pointed to a store across the road
0:26:06 > 0:26:10that sold CDs and I said, "You can buy it at that store".
0:26:10 > 0:26:13She said, "Really? Because, you know, you can't buy it anywhere in America.
0:26:13 > 0:26:15"I've asked everywhere in America, no-one's even heard of it".
0:26:15 > 0:26:18And that was a pivotal moment, cos I didn't know that.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20I thought everybody knew Rodriguez,
0:26:20 > 0:26:22especially in America cos he was American.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25So my next thought was, "Ah, Rodriguez, that's interesting".
0:26:25 > 0:26:27I came back home and I took out my Rodriguez records
0:26:27 > 0:26:30and that's when I realised there was nothing on the record
0:26:30 > 0:26:32to tell us who he was or where he was from.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34On Cold Fact, there are four names.
0:26:34 > 0:26:37On the front cover it just says "Rodriguez".
0:26:37 > 0:26:40But if we take the record out and examine the sleeve,
0:26:40 > 0:26:42the artist's name is Sixto Rodriguez.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44But if you look at the tracks,
0:26:44 > 0:26:46six of these tracks
0:26:46 > 0:26:48are credited to Jesus Rodriguez,
0:26:48 > 0:26:52and four of these tracks are credited to Sixth Prince.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55So who actually wrote these songs and who are all these people?
0:26:55 > 0:26:58We didn't have any more information than a record
0:26:58 > 0:27:01with him sitting on the cover with a hat and sunglasses on.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04We didn't know how tall he was cos he was sitting cross-legged.
0:27:04 > 0:27:06So how do you solve a mystery?
0:27:06 > 0:27:08You use whatever information's available.
0:27:08 > 0:27:10What did we have? A record cover with lyrics.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13So we started looking quite deeply at the lyrics
0:27:13 > 0:27:14and seeing what they said,
0:27:14 > 0:27:17and some of them, very few of them, had geographical references.
0:27:17 > 0:27:20The one, You Can't Get Away, starts off,
0:27:20 > 0:27:24"Born in the troubled city In Rock and Roll, USA".
0:27:24 > 0:27:25Born in which troubled city?
0:27:25 > 0:27:27Seems all the cities were troubled in the late '60s.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30"In the shadow of the tallest building".
0:27:30 > 0:27:32The tallest building, as far as we knew, was in New York.
0:27:32 > 0:27:34And at the bottom of the song this verse says,
0:27:34 > 0:27:36"In a hotel room in Amsterdam".
0:27:36 > 0:27:40Then it says, "Going down a dusty Georgian side road I wander".
0:27:40 > 0:27:42Georgia? So we've had Amsterdam,
0:27:42 > 0:27:45we've had Georgia, we've had the world's tallest building.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47Not much to go on.
0:27:55 > 0:27:57Well, what I heard, and the story differs a lot,
0:27:57 > 0:28:00and a lot of people have different versions of the story,
0:28:00 > 0:28:04but what I heard, he hadn't played a concert in a very long time.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07And a promoter got him to play a concert,
0:28:07 > 0:28:10and he was hoping this was going to be a great show.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13Of course, the show didn't work out that way. It started out...
0:28:13 > 0:28:17The sound wasn't good. The venue wasn't good.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20A lot of the factors surrounding the show wasn't good.
0:28:20 > 0:28:22And as the show went on and on,
0:28:22 > 0:28:26it started going downhill from there. People started ridiculing him.
0:28:26 > 0:28:31People started whistling or making mention of the fact that,
0:28:31 > 0:28:34you know, the show wasn't going as planned.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37And it got to a point where, just very quietly, very gently,
0:28:37 > 0:28:39he just sang his last song.
0:28:39 > 0:28:41"But thanks for your time Then you can thank me for mine
0:28:41 > 0:28:43"And after that's said forget it".
0:28:43 > 0:28:48And he reached down and pulled up a gun and pulled the trigger.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51And that was the dramatic, very dramatic ending,
0:28:51 > 0:28:54to what was actually a non-career.
0:29:23 > 0:29:27In 1996, the South African record label
0:29:27 > 0:29:31released Rodriguez's second album, Coming From Reality,
0:29:31 > 0:29:34on CD for the first time in South Africa.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37And because they thought I knew a lot about him,
0:29:37 > 0:29:40they asked if I wanted to co-write the liner notes for the booklet,
0:29:40 > 0:29:41which I did.
0:29:41 > 0:29:45And I'll read some of it to you. They start off by saying,
0:29:45 > 0:29:48"If ever there is an air of intrigue and mystery around a pop artist,
0:29:48 > 0:29:51"it is around the artist known as Rodriguez.
0:29:51 > 0:29:53"There's no air of intrigue and mystery around him
0:29:53 > 0:29:56"anywhere else in the world because his two albums,
0:29:56 > 0:29:58"Coming From Reality and Cold Fact,
0:29:58 > 0:30:00"were monumental flops everywhere else".
0:30:00 > 0:30:02And this is the important part.
0:30:02 > 0:30:06"There were no concrete cold facts about the artist known as Rodriguez.
0:30:06 > 0:30:08"Any musicologist detectives out there?"
0:30:08 > 0:30:12And that, that's the line that changed everything.
0:30:12 > 0:30:14I started searching for Rodriguez
0:30:14 > 0:30:16when a few of us were sitting around in the Army
0:30:16 > 0:30:19and somebody said, "How did Rodriguez die?"
0:30:19 > 0:30:21And just coincidence, at the time I was looking
0:30:21 > 0:30:23for subject matter to write an article.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26I remember having, like, five points on a piece of paper.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29And number four, or something, was "Find out how Rodriguez died".
0:30:29 > 0:30:31I thought it would make a good story.
0:30:31 > 0:30:34So that was in the back of my mind for many years
0:30:34 > 0:30:38and then, many years later, I came across this, um,
0:30:38 > 0:30:43re-release of Coming From Reality and inside, the liner notes said,
0:30:43 > 0:30:46"There were no concrete cold facts about the artist known as Rodriguez.
0:30:46 > 0:30:51"Any musicologist detectives out there?" Um, was the question,
0:30:51 > 0:30:53and I think that to me, was like an invitation.
0:30:53 > 0:30:55I thought, "Well, maybe it's me".
0:30:57 > 0:31:01The first way I tried to find him was to just follow the money.
0:31:01 > 0:31:02Normally, you follow the money.
0:31:02 > 0:31:04That's how you get to the bottom of anything.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07But where do dead men's money go?
0:31:07 > 0:31:09I was astounded that no-one knew anything about him.
0:31:09 > 0:31:14I guess it was reminiscent of how bad the music industry was.
0:31:14 > 0:31:15They were renowned for ripping people off.
0:31:15 > 0:31:19And it is one thing, if they'd said to me, "Oh, yeah,
0:31:19 > 0:31:24"we send the money to X place or Y," or whatever,
0:31:24 > 0:31:26but they just kept on being very vague.
0:31:26 > 0:31:28And, in fact, when I put some pressure on somebody,
0:31:28 > 0:31:30I did get an address, and I called and,
0:31:30 > 0:31:34I can't remember if I spoke to someone or left a message,
0:31:34 > 0:31:37but when I called the next day, the number had been changed.
0:31:37 > 0:31:38And that to me was...
0:31:38 > 0:31:42I mean, that's a gift for anyone who wants to be a detective,
0:31:42 > 0:31:46is an obstacle, because an obstacle is an inspiration.
0:31:46 > 0:31:48If you just find things easily, they're not inspiring,
0:31:48 > 0:31:51and this was a great obstacle that somebody had changed their number.
0:31:51 > 0:31:56I just smelt a dirty money story somewhere there.
0:31:56 > 0:31:59So, if you compare to other artists, how big was it actually?
0:31:59 > 0:32:01Every month it just sold.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04And every party you went to and every place you went to,
0:32:04 > 0:32:06you'd hear that album at least once.
0:32:06 > 0:32:11I don't think I could even think of how many albums he's sold here
0:32:11 > 0:32:13cos it's a long period of time.
0:32:13 > 0:32:15What could be probable?
0:32:17 > 0:32:19HE SIGHS
0:32:19 > 0:32:22I'd have to guess maybe half a million copies
0:32:22 > 0:32:23over that period of time.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27It's a lot of records, especially for a small country.
0:32:27 > 0:32:29Gold record, ten times over.
0:32:29 > 0:32:32Rodriguez never got to know that he was big in South Africa.
0:32:32 > 0:32:33How could that be?
0:32:33 > 0:32:37Don't know. I mean, everything would have been...
0:32:37 > 0:32:38I find that strange.
0:32:38 > 0:32:40I have no idea.
0:32:40 > 0:32:42But you must have sent royalties somewhere?
0:32:42 > 0:32:45Of course we sent royalties. We sent royalties to A&M Records.
0:32:45 > 0:32:48I remember the label. It was A&M Sussex. Whether they
0:32:48 > 0:32:50had a partnership, whatever they had, I don't... You know.
0:32:50 > 0:32:55So, my suggestion is, if you can find out whoever the person was
0:32:55 > 0:32:57who owned Sussex Records,
0:32:57 > 0:33:00then you will find out what happened to the money.
0:33:00 > 0:33:03Because it's weird, isn't it?
0:33:03 > 0:33:06It's very strange. Very strange.
0:33:06 > 0:33:08How popular was the album? Was he as famous as,
0:33:08 > 0:33:10you know, the Rolling Stones and the Doors?
0:33:10 > 0:33:12Oh, it was much bigger than Rolling Stones.
0:33:12 > 0:33:13Absolutely, at the time, yeah.
0:33:13 > 0:33:17When you released the record, did you try to contact him?
0:33:17 > 0:33:20No, not at all. You know? Because... Because, at the time,
0:33:20 > 0:33:23the legend... The legend was...
0:33:23 > 0:33:26here was an artist. This was like Jimi Hendrix.
0:33:26 > 0:33:29With Jimi Hendrix catalogues, you've got to understand,
0:33:29 > 0:33:31if you just got Jimi Hendrix
0:33:31 > 0:33:34and you'd got the licence for this territory,
0:33:34 > 0:33:35you're obviously not going to go
0:33:35 > 0:33:37try get hold of Jimi Hendrix, because he's dead.
0:33:37 > 0:33:40- But who did you pay royalties to?- To Sussex Music.
0:33:40 > 0:33:42To Clarence?
0:33:42 > 0:33:45Yes. Well, to Sussex Music which is his company, yeah.
0:33:45 > 0:33:47So, I decided to make a diagram.
0:33:47 > 0:33:50Write down the whole path and trail that I was trying to work out.
0:33:50 > 0:33:53All the various touch points, all the record companies,
0:33:53 > 0:33:54all the people that had dealings
0:33:54 > 0:33:56with Rodriguez and his album at some point.
0:33:56 > 0:33:58I made this whole document.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01So I found out there were three record companies in South Africa
0:34:01 > 0:34:03that had released Rodriguez's records.
0:34:03 > 0:34:07Finally discovering that led to a record company in America -
0:34:07 > 0:34:09it was a company that had been signing Rodriguez
0:34:09 > 0:34:12and creating his first album - called Sussex.
0:34:12 > 0:34:14I then did my research on Sussex.
0:34:14 > 0:34:16That led me to discovering
0:34:16 > 0:34:21who the owner of Sussex Records was - Clarence Avant.
0:34:21 > 0:34:23Clarence Avant, he'd been the head of Motown,
0:34:23 > 0:34:25one of the most prestigious jobs to have
0:34:25 > 0:34:26in the record company industry.
0:34:26 > 0:34:27So I did my research.
0:34:27 > 0:34:30I tried everything to get hold of Clarence Avant,
0:34:30 > 0:34:33but I just got to a lot of closed doors. I could not get hold of him.
0:34:45 > 0:34:48I don't know if you've ever seen this picture.
0:34:48 > 0:34:51HE CHUCKLES That's him.
0:34:53 > 0:34:55That's Rodriguez.
0:34:56 > 0:34:58I don't know when this was made. I have absolutely no idea.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01- That's 1970, I think. - Yeah.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05This is my man.
0:35:09 > 0:35:12Man, don't get me emotional again. Shit.
0:35:12 > 0:35:13You made me emotional once.
0:35:13 > 0:35:17I ain't getting emotional no more sitting here talking to you, man.
0:35:18 > 0:35:22If I had to name ten artists that I have ever been involved with,
0:35:22 > 0:35:25Rodriguez would be in the top five, simple as that.
0:35:25 > 0:35:28There's nothing... You never heard anything like him.
0:35:28 > 0:35:30People would say, "Well, Bob Dylan". I said, "No, no".
0:35:30 > 0:35:35Bob Dylan was mild to this guy. Did it make any money?
0:35:35 > 0:35:37We judge singing here in America...
0:35:37 > 0:35:40If you say, "Is it... Was it the top hundred?
0:35:40 > 0:35:44"Was it... was it number... Did it get on the charts as number 12?
0:35:44 > 0:35:48"Was there a lot of radio play?" The answer's, "No, man".
0:35:49 > 0:35:51Nobody didn't... "Rodriguez?"
0:35:52 > 0:35:55You know, that name didn't register.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59Although he looked like he was a white guy but, even still, Rodriguez,
0:35:59 > 0:36:01everybody knew Rodriguez, that's a Spanish name.
0:36:01 > 0:36:04A Latin name. Latin music was not happening then.
0:36:04 > 0:36:06How many records do you think he sold in America?
0:36:06 > 0:36:09In America? Six.
0:36:09 > 0:36:11Maybe my wife bought it, maybe my daughter bought...
0:36:11 > 0:36:14She couldn't buy it, but maybe Neil Bogart, maybe Dennis and Mike.
0:36:14 > 0:36:19Hey, look, man, you know, it didn't sell here.
0:36:19 > 0:36:22There was some excitement about him.
0:36:22 > 0:36:26Couple of agents heard him and wanted to bring him to California
0:36:26 > 0:36:29and, you know, when he came to California he was nervous,
0:36:29 > 0:36:31and he turned his back to the audience
0:36:31 > 0:36:33and everybody said, "Well, what the hell is this?"
0:36:33 > 0:36:35But the thing is that the guy sold
0:36:35 > 0:36:38hundreds of thousands of records in another country.
0:36:38 > 0:36:39I'm going to South Africa
0:36:39 > 0:36:41to try to chase somebody who's selling records? Shit, no, man.
0:36:41 > 0:36:43But did you know that he was big in South Africa?
0:36:43 > 0:36:49Rodriguez, young man, never happened insofar as I'm concerned.
0:36:49 > 0:36:50Period.
0:36:50 > 0:36:53But if I'm really going to try to track down the money,
0:36:53 > 0:36:54how should I do it?
0:36:54 > 0:36:57Well, is that important, the money? Or is Rod...
0:36:57 > 0:37:02Which is important? Rodriguez's story or you worrying about the money?
0:37:02 > 0:37:04How many people in South Africa?
0:37:04 > 0:37:0640 million? 40,000? 40 million people? How many people?
0:37:06 > 0:37:0940 million people live in South Africa.
0:37:09 > 0:37:12Well, so they've been freed for how long? Three hours?
0:37:12 > 0:37:14So what the fuck's that supposed to mean? You told me at lunch,
0:37:14 > 0:37:17they scratch records because they wouldn't let the lyrics...
0:37:17 > 0:37:21So the underground movement, how big was it? How big was it?
0:37:21 > 0:37:23He sold half a million records in South Africa.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26Well, so he sold half a million records. So what?
0:37:26 > 0:37:27I don't know who he sold them to.
0:37:27 > 0:37:29How many distributors did he have? I have no idea.
0:37:29 > 0:37:31There are three record labels.
0:37:31 > 0:37:33- I spoke to all the record label... - Well, great.
0:37:33 > 0:37:37..bosses in South Africa who has released his records.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40- It was...- Go back to 'em and tell 'em to send me an account.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42You think it's something they're going to worry about,
0:37:42 > 0:37:45a 1970 contract? If you do, you're outta your goddamn mind.
0:37:45 > 0:37:49Buddha Records out of business. I'm out of business.
0:37:50 > 0:37:54So you think they give a shit about that? I know I wouldn't.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00I've been looking for information about Rodriguez for a long time.
0:38:00 > 0:38:03I've even set-up a web page called The Great Rodriguez Hunt
0:38:03 > 0:38:06in the hope that someone out there in cyberspace
0:38:06 > 0:38:07would post a message on the forum
0:38:07 > 0:38:11giving us any information about Rodriguez.
0:38:11 > 0:38:12But there was nothing.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15At that stage I met Craig,
0:38:15 > 0:38:18who was the musicologist detective who had read my liner notes
0:38:18 > 0:38:20and who was also searching for Rodriguez.
0:38:20 > 0:38:23And he flew down to Cape Town and we met in a coffee shop.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26And we exchanged all the information we had.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29But unfortunately we had very little.
0:38:29 > 0:38:30And at that stage I remember we felt
0:38:30 > 0:38:33it was probably best if we just stopped.
0:38:33 > 0:38:36So basically I was lost. I'd come to a dead end. I couldn't find him.
0:38:36 > 0:38:37I didn't know where to look any more.
0:38:37 > 0:38:40I'd even visited the places that he sang about.
0:38:40 > 0:38:42I'd been to London. Nothing.
0:38:42 > 0:38:46I'd been to Amsterdam. He sings about Amsterdam. Nothing.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49And one day I'd basically given up. I thought, "Well, this is it".
0:38:49 > 0:38:52And one day, just by accident, I was listening to the album in the car
0:38:52 > 0:38:54and I heard the song Inner City Blues.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56Great song. And the line came up.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59"I met a girl in Dearborn, early six o'clock this morn.
0:38:59 > 0:39:01"A cold fact".
0:39:01 > 0:39:04Then I thought, "Hang on a minute". I'd never checked out Dearborn.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06I didn't even know if it WAS a city but then I thought,
0:39:06 > 0:39:08"Actually, that sounds like a town or a city".
0:39:08 > 0:39:11And I thought, "Hang on, let me check it out in an atlas".
0:39:11 > 0:39:16So I went through to my old atlas and pulled it out.
0:39:16 > 0:39:19I thought, "Let me see what I could find here.
0:39:19 > 0:39:22"Let me see if I could find Dearborn".
0:39:22 > 0:39:24Um... Dear...
0:39:24 > 0:39:28Then I found it. Dearborn, Wayne, Michigan. F7.
0:39:32 > 0:39:34F... 7.
0:39:34 > 0:39:39Dearborn. Part of Detroit. That was a huge breakthrough in my mind.
0:39:39 > 0:39:44Detroit, home of Motown, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder,
0:39:44 > 0:39:47and, eventually, Mike Theodore, the producer of the album.
0:39:52 > 0:39:56I was sifting in my condo, just having a cup of coffee.
0:39:56 > 0:40:00I was looking out the window watching the ocean. Phone rings.
0:40:01 > 0:40:04It's a long-distance call from South Africa...
0:40:05 > 0:40:09..from a writer whose name's Craig Bartholomew,
0:40:09 > 0:40:14and he starts telling me this amazing story.
0:40:15 > 0:40:17So he said, "Do you know that Rodriguez
0:40:17 > 0:40:20"has been selling in South Africa for 25 years?
0:40:20 > 0:40:22"His albums are selling millions".
0:40:22 > 0:40:24I said, "What?!"
0:40:24 > 0:40:26Then he's sitting there and he wants...
0:40:26 > 0:40:28He starts telling me some stories.
0:40:28 > 0:40:30He said, "How did Rodriguez die?"
0:40:30 > 0:40:34And he's telling me information that he had that Rodriguez had...
0:40:35 > 0:40:37..blown his brains out on stage,
0:40:37 > 0:40:40or set himself on fire and killed himself.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42I had 100 questions I wanted to ask.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45I was just hoping I could get all my questions in, you know.
0:40:45 > 0:40:48"Why did he write this lyric? Why did he write that lyric?
0:40:48 > 0:40:52"Where did he record this album? Where did he record that album?"
0:40:52 > 0:40:56And we got talking and I asked him a lot of questions and it was amazing.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59It was a roller coaster ride of questions and answers,
0:40:59 > 0:41:02and it was a euphoric moment of just having finally broken through
0:41:02 > 0:41:03and discovered something.
0:41:03 > 0:41:07And finally I got to the one question I wanted to know the answer of, was,
0:41:07 > 0:41:11"How did Rodriguez die? Did he blow himself up on stage? Or...
0:41:11 > 0:41:14"What is this dramatic story?
0:41:14 > 0:41:18"Let's open up the lid on this right away, and find out what happened".
0:41:18 > 0:41:21And Mike Theodore said,
0:41:21 > 0:41:23"What do you mean dead? He's not dead."
0:41:25 > 0:41:27"Sixto is alive. He's alive and kicking.
0:41:27 > 0:41:31"The principal artist known as Sixto Rodriguez
0:41:31 > 0:41:34"is alive and kicking and living in Detroit".
0:41:38 > 0:41:41I... I can't remember who called me and said, "They've found him".
0:41:41 > 0:41:45I said, "No. You're shitting me. This isn't... No".
0:41:45 > 0:41:46HE LAUGHS
0:41:46 > 0:41:51At first I thought it was a hoax. I thought somebody was faking it.
0:41:52 > 0:41:55You know, it's like going into Tutankhamen's tomb
0:41:55 > 0:41:58and finding the mummy. You know, it was like, "Wow, he lives".
0:41:58 > 0:42:02I remember dancing on the spot when I was staying on the phone.
0:42:02 > 0:42:04And Craig and I were jumping up and down saying,
0:42:04 > 0:42:05"We found him, we found him".
0:42:05 > 0:42:08It was the most exciting thing. We'd actually done it.
0:42:08 > 0:42:10MUSIC "I Think of You" by Rodriguez
0:42:10 > 0:42:15# Just a song we shared out here
0:42:16 > 0:42:20# Brings memories back when you were here
0:42:22 > 0:42:27# Of your smile, your easy laughter
0:42:27 > 0:42:32# Of your kiss, those moments after
0:42:32 > 0:42:35# I think of you
0:42:38 > 0:42:39So that was it.
0:42:39 > 0:42:42I'd come to the point, it was the end of the story.
0:42:42 > 0:42:46I was searching for a dead man. One morning I discovered a living man.
0:42:46 > 0:42:49And to me that was the end of the story. I wrote my article,
0:42:49 > 0:42:51I called it "Looking for Jesus".
0:42:51 > 0:42:54I faxed it to many individuals, many people involved,
0:42:54 > 0:42:59but somehow this article made its way across the Atlantic
0:42:59 > 0:43:01and into the hands of someone in America.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04And what I thought was the end of story
0:43:04 > 0:43:06was actually just the beginning of another story,
0:43:06 > 0:43:09and the best part was still to come.
0:43:11 > 0:43:14Cos I don't know where it is. It might take a while.
0:43:14 > 0:43:15They do have the dates.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18"Three-year search for dead singer". Yes.
0:43:18 > 0:43:22August '97. I was in Kansas.
0:43:22 > 0:43:25I got a copy of it to me at work. I was on, like, a 24-hour shift.
0:43:25 > 0:43:28And then, I went online
0:43:28 > 0:43:32and that's when I discovered the website.
0:43:32 > 0:43:36When I went online there was this milk carton with a picture.
0:43:36 > 0:43:41And it said, "Wanted" and "Have you seen this man?"
0:43:41 > 0:43:45I was like, "Matter of fact, I have seen him before".
0:43:46 > 0:43:50I replied, "Rodriguez is my father. I'm serious.
0:43:50 > 0:43:53"Do you really want to know about my father?
0:43:53 > 0:43:57"Sometimes the fantasy is better left alive".
0:43:57 > 0:43:59I don't know why I said that, but anyway I did.
0:43:59 > 0:44:03And then I gave them e-mail address, phone numbers,
0:44:03 > 0:44:06anything that they wanted to contact me. And he phoned me.
0:44:11 > 0:44:13Well, we'd found out that Rodriguez was alive.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15I'd spoken to Craig.
0:44:15 > 0:44:16I came to work and Alex McCrindle,
0:44:16 > 0:44:19who was the guy I worked on the website with said,
0:44:19 > 0:44:23"You're not going to believe what's on the website".
0:44:23 > 0:44:26And on the website was a forum where people could post messages,
0:44:26 > 0:44:28and there was a message that said,
0:44:28 > 0:44:31"My name's Eva. I'm Rodriguez's daughter". She'd left a phone number
0:44:31 > 0:44:34and she said, "I'd like to speak to someone in connection with this".
0:44:34 > 0:44:37So that night I phoned her.
0:44:37 > 0:44:39I said, "Hi, I'm Sugar," and she said, "I'm Eva,"
0:44:39 > 0:44:42and we had the most amazing conversation.
0:44:42 > 0:44:44She explained to me who her father was,
0:44:44 > 0:44:46what he had done, where he had been.
0:44:46 > 0:44:49She asked me who I was and I explained why my name was Sugar
0:44:49 > 0:44:52and how I was involved with the website.
0:44:52 > 0:44:54And then at the end I said to her,
0:44:54 > 0:44:56"This has been the most amazing thing for me,
0:44:56 > 0:44:57"and what would be really great
0:44:57 > 0:45:00"is if I could, at some point, speak to your dad.
0:45:00 > 0:45:01"I'd love it if I could just say hello to him".
0:45:01 > 0:45:04Because, for me, this was sort of the end of the search
0:45:04 > 0:45:06and I just wanted to speak to this man.
0:45:06 > 0:45:08And then I went to bed.
0:45:08 > 0:45:12And 1:00 in the morning that night, the phone rang.
0:45:12 > 0:45:15And my wife answers it cos it was her side of the bed.
0:45:15 > 0:45:20And I remember she picked up the phone and her face just changed.
0:45:20 > 0:45:24She had this look of awe. She said, "It's him".
0:45:24 > 0:45:26And I was in shock. I'd been sleeping
0:45:26 > 0:45:29and I ran into the other room, into my study,
0:45:29 > 0:45:31and I picked up the phone and she put hers down.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34And I said, "Hello?" and a voice said...
0:45:34 > 0:45:36RODRIGUEZ'S VOICE ON PHONE: 'Hello, is that Sugar?'
0:45:36 > 0:45:39And I knew, I just knew, because I knew that voice.
0:45:39 > 0:45:43I'd heard that voice so many times on the records, I knew it was him.
0:45:43 > 0:45:45I was talking to Rodriguez.
0:45:45 > 0:45:49That, for me, was one of the greatest moments of my life.
0:45:49 > 0:45:52MUSIC: "Sandrevan Lullaby" by Rodriguez
0:46:55 > 0:46:59- Whenever you're ready. - OK.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01Is this all right? Should I be doing something though?
0:47:01 > 0:47:04Should I have a glass of water or something? Is that right?
0:47:04 > 0:47:07- Do you want? - Yeah. I like that.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10Yeah, this is... I'm supposed to be comfortable.
0:47:20 > 0:47:24So run the question to me again. Just so I can hear it in my head.
0:47:25 > 0:47:29In the '70s and '80s, did you ever get any contact from South Africa?
0:47:29 > 0:47:31Uh... No, I didn't.
0:47:33 > 0:47:36Maybe they didn't have a contact number or something
0:47:36 > 0:47:37but, no, I didn't.
0:47:37 > 0:47:40How does that feel? You weren't aware of something
0:47:40 > 0:47:42that would have changed your life completely.
0:47:42 > 0:47:44I mean, probably for the better.
0:47:44 > 0:47:47Well, I don't know if it would have been for the better,
0:47:47 > 0:47:51but it's certainly a thought, you know.
0:47:51 > 0:47:55But wouldn't it have been nice to know that you were a superstar?
0:47:55 > 0:47:56Uh, well...
0:48:01 > 0:48:03I don't know how to respond to that.
0:48:03 > 0:48:07After Coming From Reality, did you want to continue making albums?
0:48:07 > 0:48:11I would have liked to have continued but nothing beats Reality.
0:48:11 > 0:48:14So I pretty much went back to work.
0:48:14 > 0:48:16What did you do?
0:48:16 > 0:48:19I... Well, I'd do hired labour.
0:48:19 > 0:48:23Demolition, renovation of buildings,
0:48:23 > 0:48:27of homes, you know. Restoration.
0:48:28 > 0:48:30Did you enjoy that?
0:48:30 > 0:48:35I do. It keeps the blood circulating, keeps you fit, yeah.
0:48:35 > 0:48:37But it's quite far away from music.
0:48:37 > 0:48:41Uh... Yeah, quite a bit, quite a different contrast, yeah.
0:48:41 > 0:48:43Did you continue making music on your own?
0:48:43 > 0:48:47I do, I play guitar. I love playing guitar.
0:48:47 > 0:48:51But I do love to listen. I like to go see the shows and things.
0:48:51 > 0:48:53But I do get about.
0:48:53 > 0:48:56MUSIC: "Street Boy" by Rodriguez
0:49:11 > 0:49:16# Street boy You've been out too long
0:49:16 > 0:49:21# Street boy Makes kind of sense to go home
0:49:21 > 0:49:25# Street boy You're going to end up alone
0:49:25 > 0:49:28# You need some love and understanding
0:49:28 > 0:49:30# Not that dead-end life you're planning
0:49:30 > 0:49:32# Street boy
0:49:40 > 0:49:44# You go home but you can't stay
0:49:44 > 0:49:49# Because something's always pulling you away
0:49:49 > 0:49:53# You're fast hellos And quick goodbyes
0:49:53 > 0:49:58# You're just a street boy with the street lights in your eyes
0:49:58 > 0:50:00# You'd better get yourself together
0:50:00 > 0:50:03# Look for something better. #
0:50:03 > 0:50:06He never said anything about being disappointed.
0:50:06 > 0:50:09He would just move on, continue to survive
0:50:09 > 0:50:11because you can't just give up.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13What did he do instead?
0:50:13 > 0:50:14He read a lot.
0:50:14 > 0:50:18He was involved in politics. He was involved in the community.
0:50:18 > 0:50:20He would attend protests and rallies,
0:50:20 > 0:50:24if those were causes that he believed in. He would take us along.
0:50:24 > 0:50:28He was always a proponent of working for the people
0:50:28 > 0:50:30that maybe didn't always have a voice,
0:50:30 > 0:50:35or didn't have a chance to speak up, the working class, the working poor.
0:50:36 > 0:50:41He had a lot of experience in that area.
0:50:42 > 0:50:46He approached the work from a different place than most people do.
0:50:46 > 0:50:47He took it very, very seriously.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50Sort of like a sacrament, you know?
0:50:50 > 0:50:54He was going to do this dirty, dirty work for eight or ten hours, OK?
0:50:54 > 0:50:56But he was dressed in a tuxedo.
0:50:56 > 0:50:58HE CHUCKLES
0:50:58 > 0:51:01He had this kind of magical quality
0:51:01 > 0:51:04that all genuine poets and artists have
0:51:04 > 0:51:09to elevate things. To get above the mundane, the prosaic.
0:51:09 > 0:51:13All the bullshit. All the mediocrity that's everywhere.
0:51:13 > 0:51:17The artist, the artist is the pioneer.
0:51:17 > 0:51:23Even if his musical hopes were dashed, the spirit remained.
0:51:23 > 0:51:27And he just had to keep finding a place, refining the process
0:51:27 > 0:51:29of how to apply himself.
0:51:29 > 0:51:31He knew that there was something more.
0:51:31 > 0:51:34It was in the early '80s. He wanted to do something,
0:51:34 > 0:51:36do something righteous, make a difference.
0:51:36 > 0:51:40- So, lo and behold... - HE CHUCKLES
0:51:40 > 0:51:42..he told me that he was going to run for mayor,
0:51:42 > 0:51:45and I thought, "Well, God bless you, Rodriguez.
0:51:45 > 0:51:47"You know, if you can become Mayor of Detroit,
0:51:47 > 0:51:49"then anything is possible".
0:51:49 > 0:51:51MUSIC: "Inner City Blues" by Rodriguez)
0:51:51 > 0:51:54# Met a girl from Dearborn Early six o'clock this morn
0:51:54 > 0:51:55# A cold fact
0:51:58 > 0:52:02# Asked about her bag Suburbia's such a drag
0:52:02 > 0:52:03# Won't go back
0:52:06 > 0:52:11# Cos papa don't allow no new ideas here... #
0:52:14 > 0:52:16Some old items from Rodriguez.
0:52:18 > 0:52:21This is his bumper sticker,
0:52:21 > 0:52:24from the first time he ran for city council.
0:52:26 > 0:52:29And I think this is a copy of the ballot.
0:52:29 > 0:52:32He didn't win an election, ever.
0:52:32 > 0:52:38139. There were 169 candidates. Nine get elected.
0:52:38 > 0:52:40They spelled his name wrong.
0:52:48 > 0:52:53My relatives on my mother's side of the family
0:52:53 > 0:52:56are European and Native American.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59And my father's family is Mexican.
0:52:59 > 0:53:01My grandfather came from Mexico.
0:53:01 > 0:53:05The Mexican came to Detroit to work in the auto factories,
0:53:05 > 0:53:11so we were working-class people, blue-collar workers, hard labour.
0:53:11 > 0:53:14Um, we lived in 26 different homes
0:53:14 > 0:53:17and some houses didn't have bedrooms.
0:53:17 > 0:53:19Some houses didn't have bathrooms.
0:53:19 > 0:53:24And they weren't homes. They were just places that we lived.
0:53:24 > 0:53:28But just because people are poor or have little
0:53:28 > 0:53:31doesn't mean that, you know, their dreams aren't big
0:53:31 > 0:53:35and their soul isn't rich, you know,
0:53:35 > 0:53:39and that's where the classes and the prejudice come from
0:53:39 > 0:53:41is that there is a difference between you and me,
0:53:41 > 0:53:43and there's a difference between them and us.
0:53:43 > 0:53:45MUSIC: "A Most Disgusting Song" by Rodriguez)
0:53:45 > 0:53:49# I've played every kind of gig there is to play now
0:53:51 > 0:53:55# I've played faggot bars, hooker bars, motorcycle funerals
0:53:56 > 0:54:00# In opera houses, concert halls, halfway houses
0:54:06 > 0:54:10# Well, I found that in all these places that I've played
0:54:12 > 0:54:15# All the people that I've played for are the same people
0:54:17 > 0:54:20# So if you'll listen, maybe you'll see someone you know in this song
0:54:22 > 0:54:24# A most disgusting song... #
0:54:26 > 0:54:29He wasn't just doing your average carpentry. You know,
0:54:29 > 0:54:31he was really cleaning out the house.
0:54:31 > 0:54:35I mean, doing work that no-one else wanted to do.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38Really, no-one else wanted to do that work.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41He would come home, he would be covered in dust
0:54:41 > 0:54:47and dirt, paint chips, from his day's work. Long days.
0:54:47 > 0:54:52I saw him take refrigerators down on his back, downstairs.
0:54:52 > 0:54:54It was just a day at work for him,
0:54:54 > 0:54:56but I knew he was a harder worker
0:54:56 > 0:54:59than a lot of other fathers that I knew of.
0:55:00 > 0:55:02It's a city that tells you not to dream big,
0:55:02 > 0:55:05not to expect anything more.
0:55:05 > 0:55:07But he always took me to places
0:55:07 > 0:55:11that only certain elite people would be able to go, so...
0:55:11 > 0:55:14he kind of instilled in me that I can go anywhere I want,
0:55:14 > 0:55:19regardless of what my bank statement says, and I'm going, you know.
0:55:19 > 0:55:24So, that's kinda how he was. He showed me the top floors of places.
0:55:24 > 0:55:27I said, "I'm just as good as they are," you know.
0:55:27 > 0:55:30He majored in philosophy in university.
0:55:30 > 0:55:34My dad gave us a lot of exposure to the arts.
0:55:34 > 0:55:37He would let us go into the libraries
0:55:37 > 0:55:40and the museums and the science centres,
0:55:40 > 0:55:42and where that was our day care, and we...
0:55:44 > 0:55:48..toured the halls of the museum and saw Diego Rivera
0:55:48 > 0:55:52and, you know, all Picasso and Delacroix and...
0:55:52 > 0:55:56We began to learn of life outside of the city,
0:55:56 > 0:55:59and that's in books and paintings and in music.
0:55:59 > 0:56:00MUSIC: "Lifestyles" by Rodriguez
0:56:00 > 0:56:03# The judges with meter-maid hearts
0:56:03 > 0:56:06# Or their supermarket justice starts
0:56:07 > 0:56:10# Frozen children inner city
0:56:12 > 0:56:14# Walkers in the paper rain
0:56:14 > 0:56:17# Waiting for those knights that never came
0:56:19 > 0:56:22# The hijacked trying so hard to be pretty
0:56:24 > 0:56:28# Night rains tap at my window
0:56:30 > 0:56:34# Winds of my thoughts passing by
0:56:36 > 0:56:40# She laughed when I tried to tell her
0:56:42 > 0:56:46# Hello only ends in goodbye. #
0:57:08 > 0:57:10Well, I started playing when I was 16,
0:57:10 > 0:57:13and the thing is, it was a family guitar,
0:57:13 > 0:57:16and I played a lot of bars in the city
0:57:16 > 0:57:18and clubs in the city, small rooms.
0:57:20 > 0:57:23And I met Mike Theodore and Dennis Coffey
0:57:23 > 0:57:25and they came to the club to see me play.
0:57:25 > 0:57:29I had a gig at a place called The Sewer,
0:57:29 > 0:57:31right out by the Detroit River,
0:57:31 > 0:57:35and then we got a record deal from Clarence Avant,
0:57:35 > 0:57:37so that's how it started.
0:57:37 > 0:57:41But all those early years were, you know...a lot of work.
0:57:41 > 0:57:45I was at a Chrysler plant called Dodge Maine,
0:57:45 > 0:57:48and I also worked at Eldon and Lynch Road in Detroit.
0:57:48 > 0:57:51Worked in the heat treat department. Stuff like that.
0:57:51 > 0:57:53A lot of heavy labour.
0:57:53 > 0:57:57But it was a good year for me. This Cold Fact thing.
0:57:58 > 0:58:02I had achieved what I was trying to do, is to get a product, you know.
0:58:02 > 0:58:04And it was going very well, I thought, you know.
0:58:04 > 0:58:10How did it feel? A great feeling of accomplishment. Actualization.
0:58:10 > 0:58:12Did you believe that it was a good album?
0:58:12 > 0:58:14Um...
0:58:14 > 0:58:16I did my best with it.
0:58:18 > 0:58:21The reviews were good on it, and...
0:58:21 > 0:58:23Yeah, I thought it was good.
0:58:25 > 0:58:28I'm not the one to ask that, though. HE CHUCKLES
0:58:28 > 0:58:30Ask that question to.
0:58:30 > 0:58:32But you go ahead, yeah.
0:58:32 > 0:58:33Were you surprised that it didn't sell?
0:58:33 > 0:58:35Um...
0:58:36 > 0:58:38Was I surprised?
0:58:38 > 0:58:42It's the music business so there's no guarantees, you know?
0:58:47 > 0:58:50So I told him, "You're bigger than Elvis,"
0:58:50 > 0:58:51and he said, "What do you mean?"
0:58:51 > 0:58:55I said, "In South Africa you are more popular than Elvis Presley".
0:58:55 > 0:58:56And there was this pause,
0:58:56 > 0:58:58and I sensed he thought it was a crank call
0:58:58 > 0:59:00and he was going to hang up.
0:59:00 > 0:59:03So I said, "Listen, wait. Listen, listen to me, wait.
0:59:03 > 0:59:05"I promise you, just come here. You won't be disappointed".
0:59:05 > 0:59:09He's working his ass off in Woodbridge.
0:59:09 > 0:59:12One day, be brought this picture of himself on a milk carton.
0:59:12 > 0:59:14HE CHUCKLES
0:59:14 > 0:59:17And he'd say, "Emmerson, look at this.
0:59:17 > 0:59:19"You know, they're looking for me".
0:59:20 > 0:59:24I said, "Really? Why is that, Rodriguez?"
0:59:24 > 0:59:28Next day he says, "Emmerson, I got to go on tour".
0:59:28 > 0:59:31I said, "Come on, Rodriguez, are you serious?"
0:59:31 > 0:59:32Because I'm a journalist, I doubted it.
0:59:32 > 0:59:35That sort of thing does not happen in the rational universe.
0:59:35 > 0:59:38It does not happen. It's against the laws of God and nature.
0:59:38 > 0:59:41This guy is coming to tour here, he must be an imposter.
0:59:41 > 0:59:43It's a clever public relations scam.
0:59:43 > 0:59:45Actually, not even a clever public relations scam.
0:59:45 > 0:59:49It's a stupid public relations scam cos it so obviously can't be true.
0:59:49 > 0:59:51Only idiots would believe it. They...
0:59:53 > 0:59:55But I was wrong.
1:00:03 > 1:00:05We were always anxious, of course, to get off the plane.
1:00:05 > 1:00:08That was a long flight. But we got off the plane
1:00:08 > 1:00:12and we put our bags on our backs and, you know, they were heavy
1:00:12 > 1:00:15and we just kept moving towards the airport.
1:00:16 > 1:00:19And suddenly, three, two limousines pulled up and...
1:00:21 > 1:00:23..we were sure that they weren't for us.
1:00:23 > 1:00:26We were like kind of walking around them.
1:00:26 > 1:00:28Like, "Oh, we better get out of these people's way
1:00:28 > 1:00:31"cos they're important people in limos".
1:00:31 > 1:00:34But they were for us. And that's when it began.
1:00:34 > 1:00:38It was all another world. It was another world.
1:00:38 > 1:00:43Just like you would see people... over Madonna or...
1:00:43 > 1:00:48Like stepping out into the wind and the paparazzi and all the...
1:00:48 > 1:00:51you know, the production assistants
1:00:51 > 1:00:54and everybody are there to welcome him
1:00:54 > 1:00:57and take us into the VIP suite.
1:00:57 > 1:01:01The white carpeting. You know, that was something that
1:01:01 > 1:01:05never would we ever even dream of walking on white carpeting,
1:01:05 > 1:01:08- especially in your shoes. - SHE LAUGHS
1:01:08 > 1:01:11They put him in a limo and they drove him into the city.
1:01:11 > 1:01:13And along the way, on all the lamp posts,
1:01:13 > 1:01:15were placards advertising the concert.
1:01:15 > 1:01:18And he saw his face on every lamp post as it sped by
1:01:18 > 1:01:21and he'd go, "There I am, there I am, there I am".
1:01:21 > 1:01:24So we came and we got to meet all the people.
1:01:24 > 1:01:27We got to meet Craig Bartholomew and their family and their kids
1:01:27 > 1:01:29and Stephen Segerman.
1:01:29 > 1:01:33And everybody was just so happy. Everybody was thrilled.
1:01:33 > 1:01:34We were even happier.
1:01:34 > 1:01:38Stephen phoned me. He said, "You will never believe this...
1:01:39 > 1:01:42.."but Rodriguez is coming to South Africa
1:01:42 > 1:01:43"and we can be the opening band.
1:01:43 > 1:01:46"Do you want to do it?" I said, "Of course we want to do it".
1:01:48 > 1:01:51"Why? Where is he?" "Now they found him.
1:01:51 > 1:01:52"They found him, he's alive,
1:01:52 > 1:01:55"he's going to come and tour in South Africa".
1:01:55 > 1:01:59Are we going to be the opening band. So I couldn't really believe this.
1:02:00 > 1:02:02And then I got all the information -
1:02:02 > 1:02:04he's living in Detroit and everything.
1:02:04 > 1:02:06And then a little while later he said,
1:02:06 > 1:02:09"Look, it turns out he hasn't got a band.
1:02:09 > 1:02:12"Could we be the support band?" I mean his band.
1:02:12 > 1:02:17I remember, even then, we were sort of...
1:02:18 > 1:02:20"Is this really going to be Rodriguez?"
1:02:20 > 1:02:22We'll only know if he can actually sing these songs.
1:02:22 > 1:02:24I mean, we don't know.
1:02:24 > 1:02:26- What if it's just some guy? - HE CHUCKLES
1:02:26 > 1:02:28It was just like one day we heard about it
1:02:28 > 1:02:31and the next day we were there...
1:02:32 > 1:02:33..trying to believe our eyes,
1:02:33 > 1:02:37thinking it was just all very shocking.
1:02:37 > 1:02:39I don't know, he took to it really easy.
1:02:39 > 1:02:41He just walked in and did his thing
1:02:41 > 1:02:44and I was amazed that he did so well.
1:02:44 > 1:02:47But he's not all "head in the clouds" kinda guy.
1:02:47 > 1:02:50He's a little bit too much grounded.
1:02:50 > 1:02:54He didn't take advantage of all the amenities and stuff.
1:02:54 > 1:02:57He didn't sleep in the big double king size bed.
1:02:57 > 1:03:00He kinda curled up on the love seat and I found him there and...
1:03:00 > 1:03:04Yeah, he just didn't think somebody should have to make another bed
1:03:04 > 1:03:06because he messed it up or...
1:03:06 > 1:03:09There was a time where I stayed in the house we were at
1:03:09 > 1:03:12and everyone else had gone out.
1:03:12 > 1:03:15The phone rang and it kept ringing, so I decided to answer it.
1:03:15 > 1:03:19And it was a reporter looking to speak with Rodriguez
1:03:19 > 1:03:22and set up time for an interview.
1:03:22 > 1:03:27And then, before she hung up, after I told her to call back later
1:03:27 > 1:03:29to talk to someone cos I couldn't help her,
1:03:29 > 1:03:34she told me that she wanted to know, between she and I,
1:03:34 > 1:03:36if it was the real Rodriguez.
1:03:36 > 1:03:38INDISTINCT CHATTER
1:03:38 > 1:03:40'We were rehearsing with a CD
1:03:40 > 1:03:44'of the songs that we've got in the studio here in Cape Town,'
1:03:44 > 1:03:47on the day that he came from the airport, when he arrived,
1:03:47 > 1:03:51and we were actually in the middle of a song when he walked in
1:03:51 > 1:03:53and just took over the microphone and finished the song.
1:03:53 > 1:03:57We switched off the CD player and it was, like,
1:03:57 > 1:04:00completely seamless. Completely seamless.
1:04:00 > 1:04:02I mean, "OK, this is the guy".
1:04:02 > 1:04:04I think we all knew this is
1:04:04 > 1:04:06going to be something really special.
1:04:23 > 1:04:26Thank you, Cape Town. Thank you.
1:04:27 > 1:04:30When we, uh... initially got on a plane,
1:04:30 > 1:04:32I thought maybe there'd be, hopefully,
1:04:32 > 1:04:3420 people in the audience.
1:04:34 > 1:04:37- Hopefully. - SHE LAUGHS
1:04:37 > 1:04:40But it turned out really, really different than that.
1:04:40 > 1:04:42And there's old people and young people
1:04:42 > 1:04:45and they're coming to see the show.
1:04:45 > 1:04:49I stepped out on the stage before he went on stage,
1:04:49 > 1:04:51cos I wanted to take a picture of the audience,
1:04:51 > 1:04:54since "nobody's going to believe this!"
1:04:54 > 1:04:55You must remember, this guy,
1:04:55 > 1:04:57it's like seeing someone like Elvis come back from the dead.
1:04:57 > 1:05:00People in the audience still don't believe it. They're standing there.
1:05:00 > 1:05:03They're at the concert. They've paid their money.
1:05:03 > 1:05:05They still don't believe that Rodriguez
1:05:05 > 1:05:06is actually going to walk on that stage.
1:05:06 > 1:05:09CHEERING
1:05:32 > 1:05:35Are you ready?
1:05:35 > 1:05:37CHEERING
1:05:37 > 1:05:39Please welcome...
1:05:39 > 1:05:41Rodriguez!
1:05:41 > 1:05:43MUSIC: "I Wonder" by Rodriguez
1:06:08 > 1:06:10CHEERING
1:06:18 > 1:06:20It was almost as if he didn't even have to play.
1:06:20 > 1:06:22They were just happy to see him.
1:06:22 > 1:06:26So, for a time, I think, they wanted to meet.
1:06:26 > 1:06:28It was a reunion.
1:06:29 > 1:06:31It was something completely different.
1:06:31 > 1:06:33It was for everybody there, I'm sure,
1:06:33 > 1:06:35the most exciting concert they'd ever been to.
1:06:35 > 1:06:37Because it was unique.
1:06:37 > 1:06:39We'd never seen Rodriguez. And all you heard
1:06:39 > 1:06:41was the bass player just playing...
1:06:41 > 1:06:43HE MIMICS BASS
1:06:46 > 1:06:48And Rodriguez wandered out to the front of the stage
1:06:48 > 1:06:51and the bass player actually just stopped playing. And it took a while.
1:06:51 > 1:06:55There was about five or ten minutes of just people screaming at him.
1:06:55 > 1:06:57CHEERING
1:07:16 > 1:07:19Thanks for keeping me alive.
1:07:24 > 1:07:26INTRO CONTINUES
1:07:46 > 1:07:50# I wonder How many times you've been had
1:07:50 > 1:07:54# And I wonder How many plans have gone bad
1:07:54 > 1:07:58# I wonder how many times you had sex
1:07:58 > 1:08:02# And I wonder Do you know who'll be next?
1:08:02 > 1:08:04# I wonder
1:08:04 > 1:08:06# I wonder
1:08:10 > 1:08:13# Wonder I do... #
1:08:15 > 1:08:19I think to go from being the outcast
1:08:19 > 1:08:24to being, uh, who he really was.
1:08:24 > 1:08:29Because it was as though it was him again... And that was who he was,
1:08:29 > 1:08:32a musician on stage, playing for his fans.
1:08:32 > 1:08:36MUSIC: "Forget It" by Rodriguez
1:08:36 > 1:08:40# It didn't work out But don't ever doubt how I felt
1:08:40 > 1:08:42# About you
1:08:46 > 1:08:49# But thanks for your time... #
1:08:53 > 1:08:55BARTHOLOMEW-STRYDOM: 'I thought that I would see him
1:08:55 > 1:08:59'being bewildered at all these people staring up at him.
1:08:59 > 1:09:02'I saw the opposite. I saw this absolute tranquillity.
1:09:02 > 1:09:06'There was absolute serenity on his face. Total.
1:09:06 > 1:09:10'It's like he had arrived at that thing, at that place
1:09:10 > 1:09:12'he'd tried to find his whole life.'
1:09:12 > 1:09:15'Home is acceptance.
1:09:15 > 1:09:17'Here's a guy who'd lived somewhere else,
1:09:17 > 1:09:18'on the other side of the earth,
1:09:18 > 1:09:21'and it was almost as if he had found his home.'
1:09:21 > 1:09:23'And I looked around at all these people
1:09:23 > 1:09:27'and I thought, "This is a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
1:09:27 > 1:09:30' "This is never going to happen again". '
1:10:02 > 1:10:04INAUDIBLE
1:10:18 > 1:10:21Well, isn't this all our great fate?
1:10:21 > 1:10:26Your dreams of yourself, the higher forms of yourself is that one day
1:10:26 > 1:10:30you will be recognised and that your talents and everything else,
1:10:30 > 1:10:33will suddenly become visible to the world.
1:10:33 > 1:10:38I mean, most of us die without coming anywhere close
1:10:38 > 1:10:41to that sort of magic.
1:10:41 > 1:10:44I tried to get him to talk about that when I interviewed him,
1:10:44 > 1:10:47about how strange it was, and I got absolutely nothing back.
1:10:47 > 1:10:49Absolutely nothing back.
1:10:49 > 1:10:50And I couldn't tell whether
1:10:50 > 1:10:52he was just like sort of cripplingly shy
1:10:52 > 1:10:54or whether I was asking the wrong questions
1:10:54 > 1:10:57or there was a language barrier or whatever.
1:10:57 > 1:11:02Maybe that was OK as well because he preserved his mystery.
1:11:02 > 1:11:04I walked away from that interview saying,
1:11:04 > 1:11:07"This is all too strange to be true".
1:11:07 > 1:11:09It remains too strange to be true.
1:11:09 > 1:11:12"These are the days of miracles and wonder".
1:11:12 > 1:11:14CHEERING
1:11:34 > 1:11:36RODRIGUEZ: 'Oh, they were so sweet.
1:11:36 > 1:11:38'I didn't believe it.
1:11:38 > 1:11:41'And I still don't, but the thing is...'
1:11:41 > 1:11:46So when I went on stage 5,000 seats all set up,
1:11:46 > 1:11:49white seats, and the thing is...
1:11:49 > 1:11:52And I said, "This is..."
1:11:52 > 1:11:54So when I played a show,
1:11:54 > 1:11:57they jumped out of their seats and rushed the stage.
1:11:59 > 1:12:03South Africa made me feel like more than a prince.
1:12:03 > 1:12:06- EVA:- And then signing the autographs for, like, a couple of hours.
1:12:06 > 1:12:10I mean, just the line of people bringing their guitars to be signed,
1:12:10 > 1:12:12bringing their CDs and...
1:12:12 > 1:12:14- REGAN:- The most amazing thing I'd seen
1:12:14 > 1:12:17was the man with his tattoo of the Cold Fact.
1:12:17 > 1:12:21He was a Rodriguez impersonator. That just stoked my fire.
1:12:21 > 1:12:24I was like, "Man, that is just too crazy".
1:12:26 > 1:12:29I have with me here, presented to Rodriguez
1:12:29 > 1:12:31for sales of the album Cold Fact.
1:12:31 > 1:12:33CHEERING
1:12:36 > 1:12:38Now just tell the States that, OK, will you?
1:12:38 > 1:12:40LAUGHTER
1:12:40 > 1:12:44American singer Rodriguez is certainly alive and well
1:12:44 > 1:12:46and with us in the Front Row tonight. Welcome.
1:12:46 > 1:12:48Very kind. How are you?
1:12:48 > 1:12:50I've heard some really riveting tales about your "death".
1:12:50 > 1:12:53I mean, they range from you pouring petrol all over yourself on stage
1:12:53 > 1:12:58and committing suicide to taking a drug overdose and dying in prison...
1:13:08 > 1:13:15- EVA:- Yeah, it was a beautiful, beautiful dream. And then...
1:13:15 > 1:13:18- then you got to go back. - SHE LAUGHS
1:13:18 > 1:13:21My dad said he's got two lives.
1:13:22 > 1:13:26The carriage turns into the pumpkin bus or something. It's like...
1:13:26 > 1:13:28Did people in Detroit believe you
1:13:28 > 1:13:31when you came back and told them what had happened?
1:13:31 > 1:13:35You know, people in Detroit need to hear something good.
1:13:35 > 1:13:38I'm not sure how much of it they believed
1:13:38 > 1:13:40because it is a grandiose story.
1:13:40 > 1:13:43It sounds like something you would make up
1:13:43 > 1:13:46if you were bragging on some dream or something.
1:13:46 > 1:13:49- FERRETTI:- He was really quite famous.
1:13:49 > 1:13:53He'd be, you know, tearing down this old shack
1:13:53 > 1:13:56or he'd be sweeping up filth or dirt
1:13:56 > 1:13:59and he started to show me one day, and I didn't believe him,
1:13:59 > 1:14:03about the album and how it got to be so popular.
1:14:03 > 1:14:04Somebody had a bootleg copy of this thing
1:14:04 > 1:14:06and it spread around and everyone...
1:14:06 > 1:14:11It got to be so popular that children could recite it
1:14:11 > 1:14:15and sing the song word for word... ALL of the songs word for word.
1:14:15 > 1:14:17And I had never heard of the album
1:14:17 > 1:14:18and I said, "Can you get me an album?"
1:14:18 > 1:14:20And he couldn't even get me one.
1:14:20 > 1:14:23I mean, that's how obscure of a thing it was.
1:14:23 > 1:14:27But he had all these photos and stuff, with these giant crowds,
1:14:27 > 1:14:3020,000 people, like Woodstock or something.
1:14:30 > 1:14:32Like, "Are you kidding me? That's you?"
1:14:32 > 1:14:36I thought it was Photoshopped or something. I didn't believe him.
1:14:36 > 1:14:40But he had all these giant crowds and he was quite content
1:14:40 > 1:14:43to just go and sweep up people's lawns
1:14:43 > 1:14:47or clean up and do manual labour. He stayed.
1:14:48 > 1:14:53He lives a very, very, very modest life.
1:14:55 > 1:14:57Definitely.
1:14:57 > 1:14:59There's definitely no excess...
1:15:01 > 1:15:06..and he definitely still works hard in order to make ends meet.
1:15:06 > 1:15:12And there's no glamour to his life in that sense.
1:15:12 > 1:15:14But he must be a rich man today?
1:15:14 > 1:15:16No.
1:15:16 > 1:15:21Rich in a lot of things but perhaps not material things.
1:15:21 > 1:15:23I guess it just never got to that.
1:15:23 > 1:15:26But he's sold hundreds of thousands of records in South Africa.
1:15:26 > 1:15:27Well, yes.
1:15:28 > 1:15:32But I believe there's a great deal of perhaps bootlegging...
1:15:33 > 1:15:36..piracy, suchlike that. Perhaps...
1:15:37 > 1:15:39Perhaps other people are rich.
1:15:44 > 1:15:47MUSIC: "I'll Slip Away" by Rodriguez
1:15:57 > 1:16:02# And I forget about the girl that said no
1:16:02 > 1:16:07# Then I'll tell who I want where to go
1:16:07 > 1:16:12# And I'll forget about your lies and deceit
1:16:12 > 1:16:16# And your attempts to be so discreet
1:16:16 > 1:16:21# Maybe today Yeah
1:16:21 > 1:16:23# I'll slip away
1:16:25 > 1:16:30# And you can keep your symbols of success
1:16:30 > 1:16:35# Then I'll pursue my own happiness
1:16:35 > 1:16:38# And you can keep your clocks and routines... #
1:16:38 > 1:16:40You know, when I think about that night
1:16:40 > 1:16:41when I spoke to Eva on the telephone,
1:16:41 > 1:16:45we could not have imagined how much our lives were going to change
1:16:45 > 1:16:47after that phone call.
1:16:47 > 1:16:48Eva came on tour with Rodriguez
1:16:48 > 1:16:51and the organizers arranged a chaperone bodyguard
1:16:51 > 1:16:54to drive them around and they fell in love.
1:16:54 > 1:16:55And they have a child.
1:16:55 > 1:16:58So Rodriguez has a South African grandson,
1:16:58 > 1:17:00a South African grandchild.
1:17:00 > 1:17:03For me, I used to be a jeweller in Johannesburg.
1:17:03 > 1:17:05I now live in Cape Town and have a music store.
1:17:05 > 1:17:08Things changed so much for us.
1:17:08 > 1:17:11But, except for one person, and that's Rodriguez.
1:17:11 > 1:17:13For him, nothing has changed.
1:17:13 > 1:17:16The life that he was living is still the life that he's living now.
1:17:16 > 1:17:20What he's demonstrated very clearly is that you have a choice.
1:17:20 > 1:17:23He took all that torment, all that agony,
1:17:23 > 1:17:25all that confusion and pain,
1:17:25 > 1:17:29and he transformed it into something beautiful.
1:17:29 > 1:17:31He's like the silk worm, you know?
1:17:31 > 1:17:36You take this raw material and you transform it.
1:17:36 > 1:17:39And you come out with something that wasn't there before.
1:17:39 > 1:17:41Something beautiful.
1:17:41 > 1:17:44Something perhaps transcendent. Something perhaps eternal.
1:17:44 > 1:17:46Insofar as he does that,
1:17:46 > 1:17:51I think he's representative of the human spirit, of what's possible.
1:17:51 > 1:17:55That you have a choice. "And this has been my choice,
1:17:55 > 1:17:59"to give you Sugar Man". Now, have you done that? Ask yourself.
1:17:59 > 1:18:02MUSIC: "Crucify Your Mind" by Rodriguez
1:18:02 > 1:18:06# Was it a huntsman or a player That made you pay the cost
1:18:06 > 1:18:09# That now assumes relaxed positions
1:18:09 > 1:18:12# And prostitutes your loss?
1:18:12 > 1:18:14# Were you tortured by your own thirst
1:18:14 > 1:18:17# In those pleasures that you seek
1:18:17 > 1:18:20# That made you Tom the Curious
1:18:20 > 1:18:22# That makes you James the Weak?
1:18:33 > 1:18:37# But you claim you've got something going
1:18:39 > 1:18:42# Something you call unique
1:18:45 > 1:18:48# But I've seen your self-pity showing
1:18:50 > 1:18:54# As the tears roll down your cheeks
1:19:04 > 1:19:06# Soon you know I'll leave you
1:19:06 > 1:19:09# And I'll never look behind
1:19:09 > 1:19:12# Cos I was born for the purpose
1:19:12 > 1:19:14# That crucifies your mind
1:19:14 > 1:19:17# So con, convince your mirror
1:19:17 > 1:19:20# As you've always done before
1:19:20 > 1:19:22# Giving substance to shadows
1:19:22 > 1:19:25# Giving substance ever more
1:19:35 > 1:19:39# And you assume you got something to offer
1:19:42 > 1:19:44# Secrets shiny and new
1:19:47 > 1:19:50# But how much of you is repetition
1:19:53 > 1:19:55# That you didn't whisper to him too. #