Exposed: Magicians, Psychics and Frauds

0:00:04 > 0:00:08Some people cannot believe that a magician can fool them

0:00:08 > 0:00:10in such a way that they can't figure it out.

0:00:13 > 0:00:16But magicians can and magicians do.

0:00:18 > 0:00:21Swindlers do, conmen do all the time.

0:00:22 > 0:00:26They're not magicians, they're fakes.

0:00:26 > 0:00:29They are lying to us, they're deceiving us.

0:00:31 > 0:00:35It's OK to fool people, as long as you're doing that

0:00:35 > 0:00:38to teach them a lesson which will better their knowledge

0:00:38 > 0:00:40of how the real world works.

0:00:42 > 0:00:45No matter how smart or well-educated you are,

0:00:45 > 0:00:47you can be deceived.

0:01:04 > 0:01:05Hello, how are you doing today?

0:01:05 > 0:01:07Very well, thank you.

0:01:07 > 0:01:09Can I bring you something to...? Coffee!

0:01:09 > 0:01:12Oh, yes, please. For me, coffee.

0:01:12 > 0:01:14I'll get you coffee in a minute, OK? OK.

0:01:18 > 0:01:22Oh, my heart just started again, that's good. Always a good sign.

0:01:23 > 0:01:27See, I've always had my battle with the psychics, the so-called -

0:01:27 > 0:01:31and I use that word in quotations all the time, remember that!

0:01:33 > 0:01:35People who are stealing money from the public,

0:01:35 > 0:01:39cheating them and misinforming them.

0:01:39 > 0:01:42That's the kind of thing that I've been fighting all my life.

0:01:42 > 0:01:44Magicians are the most honest people in the world,

0:01:44 > 0:01:47they tell you they are going to fool you, and then they do it.

0:01:47 > 0:01:51Wait a minute, I have to worship here.

0:01:51 > 0:01:52OK.

0:01:52 > 0:01:55APPLAUSE James Randi is the author of The Faith Healers

0:01:55 > 0:01:57and he's best known as an investigator of psychic

0:01:57 > 0:01:59and miraculous claims.

0:01:59 > 0:02:02Would you welcome, please, The Amazing Randi.

0:02:02 > 0:02:05Here he is! The Amazing Randi! HE SNORES

0:02:05 > 0:02:09What did you...would you tell us who you are? The Amazing Randi. Ta-da!

0:02:09 > 0:02:11I was born at an early age in a log cabin I helped my father build.

0:02:11 > 0:02:14By the time I was seven I was eleven. I grew up very fast.

0:02:14 > 0:02:16I am a magician, I always have been a magician...

0:02:16 > 0:02:19A conjurer, prestidigitator, legerdemainist...liar, cheat,

0:02:19 > 0:02:21charlatan and fake. LAUGHTER

0:02:21 > 0:02:23You're a master magician.

0:02:23 > 0:02:27Some people have said that you're about the greatest escape artist since Houdini.

0:02:27 > 0:02:31Randi has a real deep natural affection

0:02:31 > 0:02:35for magic and this love of deception.

0:02:35 > 0:02:38A good magician needs to be a little bit of a conman, I think.

0:02:38 > 0:02:40He needs to be sort of a criminal type,

0:02:40 > 0:02:43but not have enough guts to actually rob banks.

0:02:43 > 0:02:47He loves magic. He spent his whole life as a performer, as a magician.

0:02:47 > 0:02:52So he really resents anyone applying the techniques of magic

0:02:52 > 0:02:55for any purpose other than entertainment.

0:02:55 > 0:02:57Especially to convince people that

0:02:57 > 0:03:02there is something psychic going on here, he thinks that an abomination.

0:03:02 > 0:03:04Tonight on this stage you are going to meet a man

0:03:04 > 0:03:08who claims he can move physical objects using the powers of his mind.

0:03:09 > 0:03:11APPLAUSE

0:03:15 > 0:03:17Now, you have been touring our country,

0:03:17 > 0:03:19debunking psychics, haven't you? I have indeed.

0:03:19 > 0:03:22And I think that the solution is rather simple.

0:03:22 > 0:03:25Now, what I have here is particles of a white plastic

0:03:25 > 0:03:28which will rather conclusively show that Mr Hydrick

0:03:28 > 0:03:31is merely blowing on both the page and on the pencil.

0:03:31 > 0:03:33James? Ready.

0:03:37 > 0:03:41Randi says the public is being fleeced via trickery.

0:03:41 > 0:03:44"I am going to tell you what's happening and more to the point,

0:03:44 > 0:03:46"this is going to be a crusade to try and change the world."

0:03:46 > 0:03:49If there is something to the paranormal,

0:03:49 > 0:03:51let's find out what it is, if anything.

0:03:51 > 0:03:54And on the other hand let's not be taken in by the claptrap

0:03:54 > 0:03:57that is being offered us, and at our expense.

0:03:57 > 0:04:03I just ingested six-and-a-half-days' worth of homeopathic sleeping pills.

0:04:03 > 0:04:05Why don't they affect me? LAUGHTER

0:04:05 > 0:04:07People say, what's the harm? Why do you care about this?

0:04:07 > 0:04:09Then I saw Randi's answer, which was,

0:04:09 > 0:04:12bad ideas can cause you serious damage or death.

0:04:12 > 0:04:15The psychic surgeons, they operate with their bare hands

0:04:15 > 0:04:17and profess to remove tumours,

0:04:17 > 0:04:19malignant tissue, without any marks at all.

0:04:19 > 0:04:21And believe me, the gimmick is so simple

0:04:21 > 0:04:23you can buy it for 75 cents in a magic shop.

0:04:23 > 0:04:26Now, what you're about to see is a bare-handed operation...

0:04:26 > 0:04:29His point isn't to tell you that something isn't true.

0:04:29 > 0:04:34His point is to widen your scope of vision so that you will question

0:04:34 > 0:04:36the things that happen in front of you.

0:04:36 > 0:04:38Oh, no, that doesn't come out. LAUGHTER

0:04:40 > 0:04:43Some people think that he's very dogmatic.

0:04:43 > 0:04:46It's always some tired person in a shack someplace in Idaho or Iowa

0:04:46 > 0:04:48or some place like that

0:04:48 > 0:04:50who gets picked up by extraterrestrials

0:04:50 > 0:04:53and they have their genitals examined in great detail

0:04:53 > 0:04:55and they can't wait to get on Oprah to describe it.

0:04:55 > 0:04:59I'll bet you don't believe in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus either. I'm looking into Santa Claus.

0:04:59 > 0:05:03He's a great storyteller and like all good storytellers, well,

0:05:03 > 0:05:05there's probably some information and detail in there

0:05:05 > 0:05:08that may not be appearing in his version of events.

0:05:08 > 0:05:10It is, I will say, interesting that a man

0:05:10 > 0:05:13who has devoted his whole life to using the tools of deception

0:05:13 > 0:05:15to uncover real deception has,

0:05:15 > 0:05:20at the centre of his life, a deception.

0:05:20 > 0:05:22APPLAUSE And welcome to To Tell The Truth.

0:05:22 > 0:05:25Let's meet our next team of challengers.

0:05:27 > 0:05:31One of these three men pretended to be possessed by an ancient spirit.

0:05:31 > 0:05:34Number one, what is your name, please?

0:05:34 > 0:05:37My name is Jose Alvarez.

0:05:37 > 0:05:40Number two. My name is Jose Alvarez.

0:05:40 > 0:05:43Number three. My name is Jose Alvarez.

0:05:43 > 0:05:46Only one of these people is the real Jose Alvarez,

0:05:46 > 0:05:51and is the only one sworn To Tell The Truth.

0:05:51 > 0:05:53APPLAUSE

0:06:01 > 0:06:07'I first met Jose Alvarez in the Fort Lauderdale public library.'

0:06:07 > 0:06:09I offered to explain something

0:06:09 > 0:06:12about one of the photographs he was looking at.

0:06:12 > 0:06:15This is the actual flower here for the cactus.

0:06:15 > 0:06:18Yes. The little ones. And look at this, if this...

0:06:18 > 0:06:20Yeah, this is fantastic, look at that.

0:06:20 > 0:06:23Yeah, we need to spread that around. See, this is the one I cut for the...

0:06:23 > 0:06:26'We end up spending the whole afternoon'

0:06:26 > 0:06:31talking about our mutual interest about space exploration.

0:06:31 > 0:06:34I remember we looked at books on telescopes and I told him I had

0:06:34 > 0:06:37such a telescope at home, the Questar.

0:06:37 > 0:06:39I went back to my friends and I said,

0:06:39 > 0:06:43"I just met this extraordinary man, and I would like to meet him again."

0:06:43 > 0:06:46We were able to go out at night with a tripod

0:06:46 > 0:06:49and see the moons of Jupiter and all kinds of good things like that,

0:06:49 > 0:06:52which is always very exciting to show somebody,

0:06:52 > 0:06:54certainly if it's for the first time.

0:06:54 > 0:06:58'I just got very excited and I said, I need to...'

0:06:58 > 0:07:00I need to be with him more! HE LAUGHS

0:07:02 > 0:07:05'When I first met Randi, I wasn't aware of who he was.'

0:07:05 > 0:07:08OK, tomorrow, don't tell me about tomorrow...

0:07:08 > 0:07:10And I was there when he won the MacArthur Award.

0:07:10 > 0:07:12The gentleman announced, we are calling from the MacArthur Committee

0:07:12 > 0:07:14and told me that I had won the prize,

0:07:14 > 0:07:18and I answered in my most intelligible way... HE BABBLES INCOHERENTLY

0:07:18 > 0:07:20'Then I got a real feel

0:07:20 > 0:07:24'of the kind of impact he was having culturally.

0:07:24 > 0:07:27'And little by little, I started getting more and more involved

0:07:27 > 0:07:32'in the investigation of paranormal activities that Randi was doing.

0:07:32 > 0:07:35'And then he asked me to play the character of a fake channeller

0:07:35 > 0:07:38'in a project that we end up working together.'

0:07:44 > 0:07:46This woman is JZ Knight.

0:07:46 > 0:07:50She's also the one they call Ramtha, a mystical male spirit,

0:07:50 > 0:07:5335,000 years old, who claims to be divine.

0:07:53 > 0:07:55Now, you must understand that the so-called channellers

0:07:55 > 0:07:58were claiming that they could contact long-dead spirits.

0:07:58 > 0:08:01Now, not a few hundred years back, no, no.

0:08:01 > 0:08:04They were more ambitious than that. Tens of thousands of years ago.

0:08:04 > 0:08:05Indeed!

0:08:05 > 0:08:07And they would speak in funny voices like this!

0:08:07 > 0:08:10God bless you, Doctor!

0:08:10 > 0:08:14All right, I'll say, how are you this day of your time as you create time to exist.

0:08:14 > 0:08:16They were very popular. They gave talks,

0:08:16 > 0:08:17HUGE prices for the seats.

0:08:17 > 0:08:21There are often so many people, the Ramtha Organisation can earn

0:08:21 > 0:08:24up to $200,000 for a single appearance.

0:08:24 > 0:08:27And you're my first 35,000-year-old guest.

0:08:27 > 0:08:29It was such nonsense.

0:08:30 > 0:08:34I can't think of that technical term... Oh, yes - bullshit.

0:08:34 > 0:08:38What she definitely is is part of what is being called the New Age movement.

0:08:38 > 0:08:41Lots of people believe this is something genuine

0:08:41 > 0:08:43because they see something on television and think,

0:08:43 > 0:08:46"My goodness, surely this journalist would have checked this stuff out."

0:08:46 > 0:08:48Trauma from a past life

0:08:48 > 0:08:51sometimes seems to spill over into the present.

0:08:51 > 0:08:54We are conditioned to believe that things that look like

0:08:54 > 0:08:57documentaries, but are not factual, must essentially be true

0:08:57 > 0:08:59or it wouldn't be presented as if it were factual.

0:08:59 > 0:09:01Hello?

0:09:01 > 0:09:02The Carlos Hoax started

0:09:02 > 0:09:05when 60 Minutes Australia

0:09:05 > 0:09:10called Randi because they wanted to prove that channellers were a hoax.

0:09:10 > 0:09:12On that phone call, Randi told them

0:09:12 > 0:09:16that you couldn't prove that someone who said that they are inhabited

0:09:16 > 0:09:20by a spirit 40,000 years old is a false claim.

0:09:20 > 0:09:24What he said to them was, "What we need to do is to create one."

0:09:24 > 0:09:27His name is Carlos and you've probably seen him on television

0:09:27 > 0:09:28or mentioned in the press.

0:09:28 > 0:09:32Carlos is involved in the mystical field of channelling.

0:09:32 > 0:09:33Carlos, if you believe him,

0:09:33 > 0:09:37is a spiritual messenger who occupies the body of this

0:09:37 > 0:09:4019-year-old Puerto Rican artist, Jose Alvarez.

0:09:40 > 0:09:44The Carlos Hoax was to show that the media would fall for

0:09:44 > 0:09:47most of these stunts if they sounded attractive enough,

0:09:47 > 0:09:50and they wouldn't really investigate too carefully.

0:09:50 > 0:09:53So, one of the very first things we did to introduce Carlos to the

0:09:53 > 0:09:56public, we made up the press package

0:09:56 > 0:09:59that we presented to the Australian press.

0:09:59 > 0:10:00'What trash this is!'

0:10:00 > 0:10:03We even invented newspapers and magazines

0:10:03 > 0:10:05that never existed. Theatrical magazines particularly,

0:10:05 > 0:10:08announcing the appearance of the Great Carlos

0:10:08 > 0:10:10at such-and-such a theatre that didn't exist.

0:10:10 > 0:10:16But no-one in the media bothered to check up on one of these details.

0:10:16 > 0:10:19They could have picked up the phone and just checked

0:10:19 > 0:10:22and they would have found out that they were being deceived.

0:10:22 > 0:10:25'Hello?' It didn't happen.

0:10:25 > 0:10:28One man who's been making a name for himself here in the United States

0:10:28 > 0:10:30is now doing the same in Australia.

0:10:30 > 0:10:33Jose Luis Alvarez is a 19-year-old channeller.

0:10:33 > 0:10:36By 60 hours after we had arrived,

0:10:36 > 0:10:41we had eight major TV appearances, headlines in newspapers.

0:10:41 > 0:10:46Everyone in Australia pretty well knew that Carlos was there.

0:10:46 > 0:10:47HE SHRIEKS

0:10:47 > 0:10:51It will be astronomical...in nature!

0:10:51 > 0:10:54Frankly, I was just doing it without thinking.

0:10:54 > 0:10:57Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to do it.

0:10:57 > 0:10:59Last Sunday, the Opera House Drama Theatre

0:10:59 > 0:11:01was packed with a near-capacity crowd of 500,

0:11:01 > 0:11:05there to listen to Carlos and to have their questions passed

0:11:05 > 0:11:07on to him by his disciples.

0:11:07 > 0:11:10Crystals are fossils...of long ago!

0:11:10 > 0:11:13I know he's definitely psychic.

0:11:13 > 0:11:16It's something that I can feel coming from him.

0:11:16 > 0:11:19I thought it was great. Very sincere, I thought.

0:11:19 > 0:11:21Do you believe him? Yeah, I do, actually.

0:11:21 > 0:11:25The following Sunday, 60 Minutes Australia revealed the whole hoax.

0:11:25 > 0:11:28He billed himself as a man of the supernatural,

0:11:28 > 0:11:31a man who could do amazing things. And thousands believed him,

0:11:31 > 0:11:33making him a celebrity.

0:11:33 > 0:11:35But it was all an elaborate hoax.

0:11:35 > 0:11:40The most basic fact about Carlos was that he simply doesn't exist.

0:11:40 > 0:11:42That's the real teaching of Carlos.

0:11:44 > 0:11:47But this doesn't even scratch the surface

0:11:47 > 0:11:49of just what a phoney Carlos is.

0:11:49 > 0:11:50I am Carlos!

0:11:50 > 0:11:55Though I had, just a year or so before this Australian event,

0:11:55 > 0:11:58actually met Jose Alvarez,

0:11:58 > 0:12:01I was very pleased at what it did for our relationship

0:12:01 > 0:12:03because it really cemented it pretty well.

0:12:03 > 0:12:06We decided after that that we sort of belong together.

0:12:15 > 0:12:17I recognised, I guess, at a very early age

0:12:17 > 0:12:20that my feelings were different from those around me.

0:12:20 > 0:12:25And it was pretty evident to me that that was heavily frowned upon.

0:12:26 > 0:12:30I perhaps felt like a bit of an outsider.

0:12:30 > 0:12:34My father only really spoke to me twice in my whole life.

0:12:34 > 0:12:36Calling me aside, sitting me down

0:12:36 > 0:12:38and having a discussion.

0:12:38 > 0:12:43We did that twice during my life, I was surprised both times.

0:12:43 > 0:12:48I was pretty well educated on my own. The local education system

0:12:48 > 0:12:52in Toronto, Canada, actually allowed me to stay out of grade school,

0:12:52 > 0:12:56only going in there to take the tests.

0:12:56 > 0:12:57I was free to wander

0:12:57 > 0:13:02around Toronto and I found the Casino Theatre on Queen Street.

0:13:02 > 0:13:05I saw The Great Blackstone advertised.

0:13:05 > 0:13:08I had never seen a magician before in my whole life.

0:13:10 > 0:13:12Harry Blackstone walked out on stage

0:13:12 > 0:13:17and did wonderful things that I had never dreamed could be done.

0:13:17 > 0:13:21He had this young lady walk out from the side of the stage

0:13:21 > 0:13:24and he cast her into a trance. And he said,

0:13:24 > 0:13:25"Princess Astra...

0:13:26 > 0:13:28"..rise!"

0:13:28 > 0:13:31She floated up into the air.

0:13:31 > 0:13:32And I looked very carefully,

0:13:32 > 0:13:36and I could not see any means whereby she could be suspended

0:13:36 > 0:13:40in the air and caused to move in the air!

0:13:40 > 0:13:43That was wonderful, I was transfixed.

0:13:43 > 0:13:47How could the man do such a thing?

0:13:47 > 0:13:50I determined at that moment

0:13:50 > 0:13:55that I was going to become a professional magician.

0:13:55 > 0:13:59And so at 17, I decided I wouldn't graduate from high school,

0:13:59 > 0:14:03I left home and I joined the carnival.

0:14:03 > 0:14:05I never went home again.

0:14:05 > 0:14:08Now, is it possible that I could have drawn anything on there?

0:14:08 > 0:14:10Do you want to take one more look? Take one more look, there's

0:14:10 > 0:14:13nothing in there except a crushed piece of chalk, right? Now,

0:14:13 > 0:14:16before you open up the slates, what was the word that you looked at in

0:14:16 > 0:14:18the book? Would you mind telling us? Mackerel.

0:14:18 > 0:14:22I was doing, well, so-called mind-reading tricks and such,

0:14:22 > 0:14:24psychic tricks, so to speak.

0:14:24 > 0:14:27It's been in your hands all this time, right? I assume so. All right, then,

0:14:27 > 0:14:31would you open them and see what the spirits have brought us in the way of a message.

0:14:31 > 0:14:32Don't tell her how it was done.

0:14:32 > 0:14:35When I introduced myself as a magician,

0:14:35 > 0:14:38I used to say to my audience, "Good evening,

0:14:38 > 0:14:40"my name is The Great Randall.

0:14:40 > 0:14:42"I am a liar, a cheat and a charlatan.

0:14:42 > 0:14:47"I will blatantly lie to you, but for purposes of

0:14:47 > 0:14:49"entertainment only, of course.

0:14:49 > 0:14:53"And those lies may not be discernible from the truth."

0:14:55 > 0:15:01Randi had this sense of trying to be bigger than life.

0:15:01 > 0:15:04And the easiest way to be bigger than yourself

0:15:04 > 0:15:06is to lie.

0:15:21 > 0:15:24I was 21 years of age when I predicted the outcome

0:15:24 > 0:15:26of that year's World Series.

0:15:26 > 0:15:28And it was good for me, it moved me up a peg.

0:15:28 > 0:15:31But it also had some fallout.

0:15:31 > 0:15:34People would stop me in the street, literally, and start to ask

0:15:34 > 0:15:35personal questions,

0:15:35 > 0:15:38family questions and such that they thought I could answer,

0:15:38 > 0:15:43and even offering me money to predict whether the husband that

0:15:43 > 0:15:46the girl had chosen was the right one...

0:15:46 > 0:15:50That was quite a comeuppance for me because I realised, you know,

0:15:50 > 0:15:52people really do believe this nonsense.

0:15:52 > 0:15:55Mentalism can be a deal with the devil.

0:15:55 > 0:15:59It's an incredibly seductive feeling for someone to

0:15:59 > 0:16:04imbue you with that power. It's a very tempting thing.

0:16:04 > 0:16:05Then you have to make a decision.

0:16:05 > 0:16:07Are you the sort of person that will

0:16:07 > 0:16:10look someone in the eye, and even though you have

0:16:10 > 0:16:12got no idea what their future holds,

0:16:12 > 0:16:15you're prepared to tell them something that isn't true,

0:16:15 > 0:16:16that may harm them,

0:16:16 > 0:16:20just to move money from their wallet into yours.

0:16:20 > 0:16:24You do not have that influence and power as a magician.

0:16:24 > 0:16:27You have it the moment you deny you're a magician.

0:16:29 > 0:16:34I know that surge of power that you feel

0:16:34 > 0:16:36when you use a cheap trick

0:16:36 > 0:16:40to manipulate someone else into thinking you have powers

0:16:40 > 0:16:41that you don't have.

0:16:41 > 0:16:47And I think it's very much to the good of the world that when Randi

0:16:47 > 0:16:51felt that power, he backed away from it.

0:16:51 > 0:16:54And out of that feeling of that power,

0:16:54 > 0:16:57uh...came a rage.

0:17:03 > 0:17:05I want now to introduce Uri Geller.

0:17:05 > 0:17:10He's been denounced by some people as a magician, and certainly he's a

0:17:10 > 0:17:13showman. He gives demonstrations all over the United States.

0:17:13 > 0:17:15Ladies and gentlemen, Uri Geller.

0:17:15 > 0:17:17APPLAUSE

0:17:17 > 0:17:22They said his name was Uri Geller. The name didn't mean a thing to me.

0:17:22 > 0:17:25He's come to the attention of Stanford Research Institute,

0:17:25 > 0:17:28and the scientists there are apparently quite convinced that

0:17:28 > 0:17:30he has psychic powers.

0:17:30 > 0:17:33What I do is telepathy...

0:17:33 > 0:17:35and that is, as everybody knows,

0:17:35 > 0:17:39is receiving thoughts and passing thoughts.

0:17:39 > 0:17:41And then I have the other power

0:17:41 > 0:17:44which I, which I read that they call pyschokinesis.

0:17:44 > 0:17:48And that is moving or bending or breaking objects.

0:17:48 > 0:17:51It's cracking, I feel it under my fingers.

0:17:51 > 0:17:53See how gently it goes?

0:17:53 > 0:17:56Look, it's like it's becoming like plastic.

0:17:56 > 0:17:59It's breaking... It's breaking.

0:17:59 > 0:18:00You can...

0:18:00 > 0:18:03if, look, it's very...

0:18:03 > 0:18:04LAUGHTER

0:18:04 > 0:18:08In 1972, I got a call from Colonel Austin Kibler of

0:18:08 > 0:18:10the Defense Department, then acting

0:18:10 > 0:18:12head of ARPA, as it was called -

0:18:12 > 0:18:15Advanced Research Projects Agency.

0:18:15 > 0:18:17He says, "Could you drop everything you're doing

0:18:17 > 0:18:19"and go to Stanford Research Institute. There's a

0:18:19 > 0:18:24"psychic down there and if he can do what they claim he can do,

0:18:24 > 0:18:25"we ought to be involved.

0:18:25 > 0:18:30"Cos the Russians have a big programme now going, using what they call Psy-Warfare."

0:18:31 > 0:18:34This film describes a five-week investigation

0:18:34 > 0:18:37conducted at Stanford Research Institute with Uri Geller,

0:18:37 > 0:18:39a young Israeli.

0:18:39 > 0:18:42Here we present a case of a double-blind experiment

0:18:42 > 0:18:47in which someone places an object into a can chosen at random from ten

0:18:47 > 0:18:52aluminium cans. Geller's task now is to determine

0:18:52 > 0:18:56which of these ten cans holds the steel ball bearing.

0:18:56 > 0:18:58Now Targ and Puthoff, the two scientists

0:18:58 > 0:19:01who were in residence there at the time, were quite a pair.

0:19:01 > 0:19:04First of all, Targ is legally blind.

0:19:04 > 0:19:05And, er...

0:19:05 > 0:19:08he was one of the observers. Duh!

0:19:08 > 0:19:12He has made his choice, the steel ball is found.

0:19:12 > 0:19:16He fooled the pants off them, it was astonishing.

0:19:16 > 0:19:19They saw Nobel Prizes on the horizon because

0:19:19 > 0:19:22if you do discover there really were psychic powers, that would certainly

0:19:22 > 0:19:26bring you a Nobel Prize or two. In this case, Geller guessed that a

0:19:26 > 0:19:31four was showing, and he was quite pleased to have guessed correctly.

0:19:31 > 0:19:35When I made my report to the government that Geller was...

0:19:35 > 0:19:36a complete fraud,

0:19:36 > 0:19:40Targ and Puthoff realised they were not going to get the money

0:19:40 > 0:19:43from the government, so they took Geller on a tour to get

0:19:43 > 0:19:46publicity for him and to raise some private money

0:19:46 > 0:19:47to do their research with him.

0:19:47 > 0:19:49I've been reading a lot of research on him

0:19:49 > 0:19:52from the Stanford Research Institute and from the science section

0:19:52 > 0:19:53of the New York Times.

0:19:53 > 0:19:56A lot of publicity on this gentleman whose name is Uri, U-R-I, Uri Geller.

0:19:56 > 0:20:00And we hope we're going to see some rather astounding things tonight.

0:20:00 > 0:20:03Would you welcome, please, Uri Geller.

0:20:03 > 0:20:04APPLAUSE

0:20:04 > 0:20:06Johnny Carson was THE man.

0:20:06 > 0:20:09Everybody watched that programme on NBC

0:20:09 > 0:20:12and since I had been on the programme many, many times,

0:20:12 > 0:20:15they asked if I could come into California

0:20:15 > 0:20:17to appear on the show that night.

0:20:17 > 0:20:19And I said, "Boy this is rather short notice,

0:20:19 > 0:20:23"but I will talk to your prop man. And I'll tell the prop man how

0:20:23 > 0:20:28"he can prepare the props in such and such a way that if it's real,

0:20:28 > 0:20:29"Geller can do it.

0:20:29 > 0:20:32"But if it's a fake, Geller won't be able to do it."

0:20:32 > 0:20:34Are you feeling in the mood yet? No.

0:20:34 > 0:20:38More questions? All right, let's... What's the capital of South Dakota?

0:20:38 > 0:20:39LAUGHTER

0:20:39 > 0:20:41No, I don't mean to press you.

0:20:41 > 0:20:44OK, uh, let me see.

0:20:44 > 0:20:48I said, OK, what I would like you to do with the little aluminium

0:20:48 > 0:20:52film cans is I would like you to coat them on the bottom

0:20:52 > 0:20:53with rubber cement.

0:20:53 > 0:20:55Don't glue them down to the tray,

0:20:55 > 0:20:58just coat the bottoms and let them dry.

0:20:58 > 0:21:01When they're put on the tray, they won't skid, then.

0:21:01 > 0:21:04I said because the way he does the film-can thing is he rotates

0:21:04 > 0:21:07the tray and he sees which ones move differently.

0:21:08 > 0:21:11We'll start eliminating the ones that do not have the water.

0:21:11 > 0:21:15Without touching them. He is really suspicious, you know!

0:21:15 > 0:21:16I'm having a hard time with you!

0:21:16 > 0:21:19I don't mean to be, Uri, I really don't. Just keep looking.

0:21:24 > 0:21:27OK, let me rest a little, all right? All right.

0:21:27 > 0:21:32They actually shut down the set for 20 minutes or so while he

0:21:32 > 0:21:35hummed and hawed and wondered how he was going to do something,

0:21:35 > 0:21:37then they came back to the live audience

0:21:37 > 0:21:40after a big, long commercial break.

0:21:40 > 0:21:41All right, we are back.

0:21:41 > 0:21:45Uri was telling me you don't feel, what, strong tonight?

0:21:45 > 0:21:48I don't feel strong... Geller had to give the whole thing up.

0:21:48 > 0:21:52It was a real failure for him, definite failure.

0:21:52 > 0:21:57Because Carson's people had followed the instructions that I gave them.

0:21:57 > 0:21:59Don't be disappointed. I won't.

0:21:59 > 0:22:02I'm not. OK. We thought he didn't have a future.

0:22:02 > 0:22:05And we were wrong! Very, very wrong, we didn't know how wrong we were!

0:22:08 > 0:22:10Try to make a Boy Scout knot. Really heave on it.

0:22:10 > 0:22:13That doesn't feel very tight, put another knot on top,

0:22:13 > 0:22:14would you, please? Just one more

0:22:14 > 0:22:16to make sure. I don't want it to fall off around my ankles.

0:22:16 > 0:22:19There we go. What did I ever do to you? Why do you hate me so much?!

0:22:19 > 0:22:22I'm going to see if I can take this rope off, it may take me a while,

0:22:22 > 0:22:25but I'll see how fast I can do it. Would you time me, please?

0:22:25 > 0:22:27Do you have a watch there, just look at your watch. Uh, yeah.

0:22:27 > 0:22:30How about you, you got a watch? I have one. It took 2? seconds.

0:22:30 > 0:22:33I think I deserve a large round of applause for that.

0:22:33 > 0:22:36One of Randi's great heroes is Harry Houdini, and the

0:22:36 > 0:22:40life of Harry Houdini reads very similar to the life of James Randi.

0:22:40 > 0:22:43Starting out as an amazing magician

0:22:43 > 0:22:45and escape artist, he was a great

0:22:45 > 0:22:48showman and debunker and dedicated his life

0:22:48 > 0:22:50to keeping people from being duped.

0:22:50 > 0:22:53Well, the thought naturally occurred to me that I

0:22:53 > 0:22:56could base a good deal of my life on Harry Houdini and his adventures,

0:22:56 > 0:22:58perhaps do some of the things that he had done

0:22:58 > 0:23:00and perhaps even improve on them.

0:23:00 > 0:23:03Open sesame, try that. Open sesame.

0:23:03 > 0:23:07Oh, look at it! The door is opening!

0:23:10 > 0:23:11I wanted to break his records -

0:23:11 > 0:23:14I wanted to stay in a sealed metal coffin longer than he did,

0:23:14 > 0:23:17get out of a straitjacket faster than he did.

0:23:17 > 0:23:21Out of chains, out of leg irons and handcuffs.

0:23:21 > 0:23:23I said if a man could make it, I could break it.

0:23:23 > 0:23:25There was nothing he couldn't get out of.

0:23:25 > 0:23:28Or make it at least seem like he was getting out of them.

0:23:28 > 0:23:31The clock is still going, he has established a world's record.

0:23:31 > 0:23:35In some cases, 200 feet of rope wrapped up on a chair on stage.

0:23:36 > 0:23:38You just hope that the theatre doesn't catch fire,

0:23:38 > 0:23:41because they're likely to leave you behind to fry.

0:23:46 > 0:23:49But it's when some of the things like hanging over Niagara Falls

0:23:49 > 0:23:52in a straitjacket at 20 below zero, that gets your attention.

0:24:01 > 0:24:05# Billion dollar babies

0:24:05 > 0:24:06# Hey!

0:24:06 > 0:24:08# Billion dollar babies... #

0:24:08 > 0:24:10In '73, with Billion Dollar Babies,

0:24:10 > 0:24:12we said this whole album is about extravagance,

0:24:12 > 0:24:14so take it to the next level,

0:24:14 > 0:24:16let's use illusion.

0:24:16 > 0:24:19If you're going to get your head cut off, it can be scary and funny

0:24:19 > 0:24:23at the same time, but it's got to be professional.

0:24:23 > 0:24:26So you go to the best guy, and Amazing Randi was the best guy.

0:24:35 > 0:24:38I had never heard of Alice Cooper.

0:24:39 > 0:24:43I assumed it was a woman, you see, silly me!

0:24:43 > 0:24:47And I said, yeah, this might be fun.

0:24:50 > 0:24:53He really starts to become kind of a pop-culture figure.

0:24:53 > 0:24:56All the way to... Happy Days!

0:24:56 > 0:24:58Good afternoon, gentlemen, I am The Amazing Randi.

0:24:58 > 0:25:00Hey, The Amazing Randi!

0:25:00 > 0:25:04My appearance on Happy Days really did a lot for my career.

0:25:04 > 0:25:08Fonzie, thanks a lot. You really saved the day. Are you kidding?

0:25:08 > 0:25:10Whoa. Hey!

0:25:10 > 0:25:13See ya. Yeah, hang in there.

0:25:13 > 0:25:16This is show business. The showmanship.

0:25:16 > 0:25:18That's one respect in which

0:25:18 > 0:25:22I based a good deal of my efforts on what Houdini had done.

0:25:22 > 0:25:24He had done it by trial and error

0:25:24 > 0:25:26and I benefitted from his example.

0:25:26 > 0:25:30This actually was invented more than half a century ago

0:25:30 > 0:25:32by the late, great, Harry Houdini.

0:25:32 > 0:25:35I was asked to do a show honouring Harry Houdini.

0:25:35 > 0:25:39I am going to immerse myself inside the can, my body will displace some of the water,

0:25:39 > 0:25:43the water will be filled right to the very top and the lid will be locked on.

0:25:43 > 0:25:48And I was going to do the milk can. Now, this is rehearsal,

0:25:48 > 0:25:51maybe 20 minutes before airtime.

0:25:51 > 0:25:54And I tried to perform the escape.

0:25:56 > 0:25:58I couldn't get out of the milk can.

0:25:58 > 0:26:03Something had jammed and I heard a crackling noise.

0:26:03 > 0:26:07Turned out it was a couple of my vertebrae that had been chipped.

0:26:07 > 0:26:12And the pain was rather considerable, to say the least.

0:26:12 > 0:26:16I was in deep trouble. I knew that if I panicked I would...I'd be dead,

0:26:16 > 0:26:20that's all there is to it. So you don't panic.

0:26:20 > 0:26:23I had to let myself sink back into the water,

0:26:23 > 0:26:25I was in a bit of trouble.

0:26:25 > 0:26:30Finally I heard the noises that they were undoing the padlocks.

0:26:30 > 0:26:33I roared up out of the water,

0:26:33 > 0:26:37and there I was, I had been saved. It was a close call.

0:26:37 > 0:26:41Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome The Amazing Randi!

0:26:41 > 0:26:42I came back from the hospital

0:26:42 > 0:26:45and I was introduced down near the end of the show on a stretcher.

0:26:45 > 0:26:47I've just returned from the hospital

0:26:47 > 0:26:49and they tell me that I have a double compression fracture

0:26:49 > 0:26:52of the vertebrae,

0:26:52 > 0:26:55and it's not something I recommend you undertake as a hobby.

0:26:55 > 0:26:57It wasn't a great blow to me.

0:26:57 > 0:27:00And I was at the point where I thought that maybe it was time

0:27:00 > 0:27:02to get out of this business.

0:27:02 > 0:27:04Randi probably could've kept doing it for a while.

0:27:04 > 0:27:06I remember him saying to me, "There comes a point

0:27:06 > 0:27:09"you just don't want to see a little old guy getting out of a can."

0:27:09 > 0:27:12I heard that this going to be the last escape, you're through with it.

0:27:12 > 0:27:15Yes, the last straitjacket escape, certainly.

0:27:15 > 0:27:17I may do some jail escapes and a few things like that,

0:27:17 > 0:27:21but I'm going to leave that stunt to the younger people. Oh, yeah. How old are you?

0:27:21 > 0:27:25I'm 55 now, and it's time to get out of that business.

0:27:25 > 0:27:27I think it gave him the opportunity

0:27:27 > 0:27:32to focus full-time on what he regarded...

0:27:32 > 0:27:34as the bigger, better targets.

0:27:42 > 0:27:46In the name of Jesus! Everybody with a bone disease,

0:27:46 > 0:27:50everybody with a back infirmity, misplaced vertebrae,

0:27:50 > 0:27:53bring them right down over here to the side.

0:27:53 > 0:27:56Did you ever feel anything like this, it's like warm liquid fire

0:27:56 > 0:27:59flowing over this whole building!

0:27:59 > 0:28:01Oh, thank you, Jesus.

0:28:01 > 0:28:03Oh, God.

0:28:03 > 0:28:07Let her go, that's the power of the Holy Spirit.

0:28:07 > 0:28:10During the '80s, the faith healing racket was very,

0:28:10 > 0:28:13very prominent, literally all over the world.

0:28:13 > 0:28:16Let his leg begin to grow, heal the disc. There, it's coming...

0:28:16 > 0:28:19In the name of Jesus.

0:28:19 > 0:28:22I did a lot of investigation, I visited a lot of these tent shows

0:28:22 > 0:28:25as we called them, and we didn't see any evidence of

0:28:25 > 0:28:27healing taking place whatsoever.

0:28:27 > 0:28:30But I was particularly obsessed with Peter Popoff.

0:28:38 > 0:28:40You've got cancer of the stomach?

0:28:40 > 0:28:43Are you ready for God to burn that cancer out?

0:28:43 > 0:28:47A man like Reverend Peter Popoff was a very dangerous man.

0:28:47 > 0:28:52In my estimation, he was a real scoundrel. Because he was taking

0:28:52 > 0:28:55people's faith in their religion - he was taking away

0:28:55 > 0:28:59their security. In many cases, he was harming them physically

0:28:59 > 0:29:00because he was convincing them

0:29:00 > 0:29:03that they didn't have to go to doctors any more,

0:29:03 > 0:29:07that Jesus had healed them. If you've got pills, as an act of faith,

0:29:07 > 0:29:10I want you to just throw 'em out in the aisles.

0:29:10 > 0:29:14Those of you up on the balcony, just throw them over the side, Amen.

0:29:14 > 0:29:18Throw them over the side, throw them over the side.

0:29:19 > 0:29:22So you have Popoff, who's going around the congregation

0:29:22 > 0:29:25and just seemed to be able to hear the voice of God and know all about

0:29:25 > 0:29:26people, even their addresses,

0:29:26 > 0:29:29he would call it out, everyone's impressed.

0:29:29 > 0:29:32Is that...John? 3784 Archwood Road?

0:29:32 > 0:29:37God is burning those blood clots out of his veins, out of his arteries...

0:29:37 > 0:29:40Jesus!

0:29:40 > 0:29:41There it is...

0:29:41 > 0:29:45So he was doing a mentalism act, it appeared, and we wondered how he got

0:29:45 > 0:29:48the information. So Randi was coming to town and he said,

0:29:48 > 0:29:53"Would you like to come see this evangelist by the name of Peter Popoff, and he's supposedly really

0:29:53 > 0:29:56"well known, and he's going to be downtown and he's going to be doing

0:29:56 > 0:29:59"this whole revival thing and thousands of people will be there."

0:29:59 > 0:30:02And I said, "Yeah, I'd love to come."

0:30:02 > 0:30:05Is it Ruby, Ruby Harris?

0:30:05 > 0:30:09So, I'm sitting there with Randi and there's thousands of people.

0:30:09 > 0:30:12Come on up here, Ruby - here she comes!

0:30:12 > 0:30:15They believe this man has a connection with their God

0:30:15 > 0:30:18and he can actually heal them. Yes! Yes! Yes!

0:30:18 > 0:30:22Now, listen, I'm going to tell her what's wrong with her, but I'm not going to tell it out loud

0:30:22 > 0:30:26because it's confidential. How many of you believe the Holy Spirit's a gentleman?

0:30:26 > 0:30:30I realised at that moment, something big is going on here. This is a lot more than I thought it was.

0:30:30 > 0:30:32Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

0:30:32 > 0:30:35God's going to burn them out right now, here they go!

0:30:35 > 0:30:37Here they go - right now, Jesus!

0:30:37 > 0:30:39And I have to tell you,

0:30:39 > 0:30:42it was an absolutely amazing experience, because...

0:30:42 > 0:30:48the emotions that you feel when there are people up there who are in tears... Right now,

0:30:48 > 0:30:51Jesus! Ah, hallelujah! He's not going to need...

0:30:51 > 0:30:55Who are shaking and you've got this entire energy going throughout this room.

0:30:55 > 0:30:58It does something to you, even as a sceptic.

0:30:58 > 0:30:59It truly does something to you.

0:30:59 > 0:31:04Oh, hallelujah, get up on your feet, let's walk! There is no pain, no pain!

0:31:04 > 0:31:0612 years, there's no pain!

0:31:07 > 0:31:11Look at that! There he goes! There he goes, Hallelujah!

0:31:13 > 0:31:18Oh, praise God! How many of you know that burns the Devil up?

0:31:20 > 0:31:23After a while, you know, I'm sitting there and after some of the emotion

0:31:23 > 0:31:27had died down in me, Popoff said, "I need people to come down to collect money" for him

0:31:27 > 0:31:31and basically he had 15 buckets, and I'm supposed to go around the auditorium and collect cash.

0:31:31 > 0:31:35God is touching that thyroid condition right now.

0:31:35 > 0:31:39These people were throwing fives, tens, twenties, because one of the things Popoff always tells them,

0:31:39 > 0:31:42"Whatever you give, you'll get back tenfold."

0:31:42 > 0:31:46So if you put a dollar in, hey, you're going to get ten bucks. You put 100 bucks in,

0:31:46 > 0:31:50you're going to get a lot more money back. And these people truly believed this.

0:31:50 > 0:31:53Here it comes, complete healing in Jesus.

0:31:53 > 0:31:56You foul spirit of deafness, take your hands off this woman

0:31:56 > 0:32:00in Jesus' name. Lord, let these ears be open, there it is...

0:32:00 > 0:32:02And as I get up close,

0:32:02 > 0:32:05I notice in his ear, that there's an earpiece, there's no earhole.

0:32:05 > 0:32:08It's a little piece of plastic in there and I come back to Randi and I said,

0:32:08 > 0:32:10"I think I know what's going on."

0:32:10 > 0:32:14I said what's up? He said, "He's wearing a hearing aid in his left ear."

0:32:14 > 0:32:17Now, a man who heals the deaf,

0:32:17 > 0:32:21you wouldn't think would be wearing a hearing aid.

0:32:21 > 0:32:25How do I sound now? Loud! Loud.

0:32:25 > 0:32:28At that point, I realised we needed some technical help, so I

0:32:28 > 0:32:31enlisted the aid of a private investigator named Alec Jason.

0:32:31 > 0:32:33Stand by.

0:32:33 > 0:32:35And...action.

0:32:35 > 0:32:38One day, Randi called me and suggested that Peter Popoff was

0:32:38 > 0:32:40using radio transmissions,

0:32:40 > 0:32:42but they couldn't really figure out

0:32:42 > 0:32:44how it was done and they wanted to know

0:32:44 > 0:32:46if I could intercept it or detect it.

0:32:46 > 0:32:48I said I certainly couldn't guarantee it.

0:32:48 > 0:32:52Less than 50/50, maybe, you know, 25%.

0:32:54 > 0:32:56We knew that Popoff had a "service" as he called it,

0:32:56 > 0:32:58happening in San Francisco

0:32:58 > 0:33:00and we figured we'd better be there.

0:33:00 > 0:33:05Do you support Peter's ministry financially? Every dime I can, yeah.

0:33:05 > 0:33:06What brings you here today?

0:33:06 > 0:33:09Well, I'm expecting a miracle. Physical healing.

0:33:09 > 0:33:13The day of the event, I dressed as a security guard. Complete uniform -

0:33:13 > 0:33:16badge, shirt, radio, keys...

0:33:16 > 0:33:18everything.

0:33:18 > 0:33:21I'm not a security guard - I just look like one, part of my cover.

0:33:21 > 0:33:23'And I was nervous.'

0:33:25 > 0:33:29I appeared in disguise as Adam Jersin.

0:33:29 > 0:33:32And if you put those words together and mix them up,

0:33:32 > 0:33:34they spell James Randi.

0:33:34 > 0:33:38So I went down a corridor and that's where I set up my equipment.

0:33:38 > 0:33:41It was concealed n bags. So I have

0:33:41 > 0:33:45my scanner going and it's looking for new frequencies,

0:33:45 > 0:33:48anything new that's not there normally.

0:33:48 > 0:33:51Get ready...

0:33:51 > 0:33:52get ready.

0:33:54 > 0:33:55Praise God. Suddenly,

0:33:55 > 0:33:59on the scanner, one of the lights came on saying there's a signal

0:33:59 > 0:34:03and the scanner has stopped at that frequency. And I hear what I

0:34:03 > 0:34:06realise are now...footsteps.

0:34:06 > 0:34:09High-heel footsteps on a hard surface.

0:34:09 > 0:34:12How many of you believe it's all right to praise the Lord?

0:34:12 > 0:34:16And then I hear someone coming closer and closer to the microphone

0:34:16 > 0:34:19and a woman's voice said, "Hello, Petey..."

0:34:19 > 0:34:22'Hello, Petey. Can you hear me?

0:34:22 > 0:34:24'If you can't, you're in trouble...'

0:34:24 > 0:34:29Yes! They were using a radio frequency. I found it!

0:34:29 > 0:34:30In the name of Jesus...

0:34:30 > 0:34:32'Jodi Dean. Jodi Dean.'

0:34:32 > 0:34:34Is it Jodi?

0:34:34 > 0:34:36Jodi?

0:34:36 > 0:34:38Dean? Jodi Dean?

0:34:38 > 0:34:40'No, she should be right there on your right side.'

0:34:40 > 0:34:42Here it comes.

0:34:42 > 0:34:46'OK, she lives at 4267 Masterson.'

0:34:46 > 0:34:494267 Masterson? I can see the angels of God all around your house.

0:34:49 > 0:34:50Rosa?

0:34:50 > 0:34:55'Cameer.' Is it Cameer? You been taking a lot of medication?

0:34:55 > 0:34:59'She's there with her son Kipper and he has a lump in his chest.'

0:34:59 > 0:35:01Wait just a minute, who's Kipper?

0:35:01 > 0:35:05He's got a lump in his chest. You want God to melt it right now?

0:35:05 > 0:35:08Kipper, stand-up, God's going to burn that thing out, right now.

0:35:08 > 0:35:12They'd filled out prayer request forms, saying "I have cancer,"

0:35:12 > 0:35:14or I have this problem or that problem.

0:35:14 > 0:35:17So she's giving that information directly to Popoff

0:35:17 > 0:35:20and then he's reciting that information

0:35:20 > 0:35:22as if he's getting it from God.

0:35:22 > 0:35:24'Martha Zacorski...'

0:35:24 > 0:35:27Is it Martha, is it Zacorski?

0:35:27 > 0:35:30'Weldon Krabb.' Is it Weldon... 'Krabb.' Krabb?

0:35:30 > 0:35:34'Peggy White.' Peggy White?

0:35:34 > 0:35:36'1305 Celono.' 1305 Celono?

0:35:36 > 0:35:39'Turn over to the left.' Hallelujah! 'There you go.

0:35:39 > 0:35:42'She's had a hysterectomy, she can't take hormones.

0:35:42 > 0:35:44'He's got kidney and eye problems.'

0:35:44 > 0:35:46You want God to touch your kidneys?

0:35:46 > 0:35:48Now, let that ear open! In the name the Lord - right now, Jesus!

0:35:48 > 0:35:52Power of the Holy Ghost! Here it comes... Devil, back off!

0:35:52 > 0:35:54And the bondage is broken! Whoo!

0:35:54 > 0:35:59In the name of Jesus! You foul spirit!

0:35:59 > 0:36:02I thought, well, I'm getting out of here now. So I packed everything up,

0:36:02 > 0:36:04I turned the equipment off, took my bags and

0:36:04 > 0:36:07walked down the stairs, outside to the cool air.

0:36:07 > 0:36:10My heart's pounding now, because I've got the goods.

0:36:10 > 0:36:12Not only did we have the evidence we needed,

0:36:12 > 0:36:14we had more than what we needed.

0:36:14 > 0:36:15We had it.

0:36:15 > 0:36:18APPLAUSE

0:36:18 > 0:36:20So I went on the Johnny Carson show

0:36:20 > 0:36:23and when the revelation came and you heard Mrs Popoff's voice...

0:36:23 > 0:36:27'Hello, Petey, can you hear me? If you can't, you're in trouble...'

0:36:27 > 0:36:31..Johnny suddenly realised what the gimmick was and he said,

0:36:31 > 0:36:32"Oh, sh..."

0:36:32 > 0:36:35It turns out that God's frequency - I didn't know he used radio -

0:36:35 > 0:36:40is 39.170 megahertz, and God is a woman, obviously, and

0:36:40 > 0:36:42sounds exactly like Popoff's wife, Elizabeth.

0:36:42 > 0:36:44Has he seen this tape at all?

0:36:44 > 0:36:47No, he does not know about this until this very moment. Interesting.

0:36:47 > 0:36:50I can't imagine what it would be like to maintain a life where your

0:36:50 > 0:36:54living and your wellbeing of you and your family depends upon you

0:36:54 > 0:36:55lying every single day.

0:36:55 > 0:36:59I think they believe there is some way in which what they are doing

0:36:59 > 0:37:03is good and that there's some moral compass that they've invented

0:37:03 > 0:37:05that allows them to do this.

0:37:05 > 0:37:08A double portion of God's power!

0:37:08 > 0:37:11Well, we did it. We had exposed this man on probably the

0:37:11 > 0:37:14most popular television show of the day.

0:37:14 > 0:37:17And he announced bankruptcy shortly after that.

0:37:17 > 0:37:18Oh, glory to God!

0:37:18 > 0:37:20CARSON: OK, we'll take a break,

0:37:20 > 0:37:21we'll be right back.

0:37:36 > 0:37:39Oh, OK, I'll see what I can do, all right,

0:37:39 > 0:37:41here we go. Wait, I'll do a Jackie Gleason here.

0:37:45 > 0:37:47Yeah, I don't know, hmm.

0:37:47 > 0:37:49I'll do a plie at the bar, OK?

0:37:50 > 0:37:54Oh, no, I don't bend that way any more!

0:37:54 > 0:37:56It has been said many times when you're in love,

0:37:56 > 0:37:57you want to tell the world.

0:37:57 > 0:37:59Maybe it will work, I don't know.

0:37:59 > 0:38:02And James Randi is in love with the truth.

0:38:07 > 0:38:12The so-called psychics and the other charlatans are making money at our

0:38:12 > 0:38:16expense and we have to bear some of the blame for it,

0:38:16 > 0:38:19so let's get to work and do something about it.

0:38:19 > 0:38:21I'll take two eight-by-tens.

0:38:21 > 0:38:24The man that puts the fear of God into all those psychics,

0:38:24 > 0:38:27The Amazing Randi!

0:38:28 > 0:38:33James Randi isn't just about being sceptical of the paranormal.

0:38:33 > 0:38:37He is about promoting a scientific worldview.

0:38:37 > 0:38:41Science has created and shaped much of the world in which we live.

0:38:41 > 0:38:46But constant vigilance can never be relaxed.

0:38:49 > 0:38:51You want people to be educated, you want to go out and

0:38:51 > 0:38:54shake these people and say, "Listen to me, listen to me."

0:38:54 > 0:38:58The Million-Dollar Challenge is real, ladies and gentlemen.

0:38:58 > 0:39:03Why is there not a line-up outside this organisation right now

0:39:03 > 0:39:07on the street? Why isn't Uri Geller here?

0:39:07 > 0:39:10Really pull, come on, make it tight.

0:39:10 > 0:39:12OK, I need... I need this chair.

0:39:12 > 0:39:14Sir, would you take the chair and pull it up front?

0:39:21 > 0:39:24I got an old one! First edition. Yes!

0:39:25 > 0:39:27The amount that he travels

0:39:27 > 0:39:30and the amount of people that he engages with,

0:39:30 > 0:39:34he has genuinely changed thousands and thousands of people's lives

0:39:34 > 0:39:36by opening their eyes.

0:39:42 > 0:39:46I've got to bring my camera down here and get some shots of it, too.

0:39:46 > 0:39:48Just to make Jose crazy.

0:39:49 > 0:39:52Is he on your mind?

0:39:52 > 0:39:54Always!

0:39:54 > 0:39:55Every minute.

0:39:57 > 0:39:59Every minute, because he's not here.

0:40:14 > 0:40:17Sometimes I think... what an odd couple we make.

0:40:17 > 0:40:22He's very rational and very much driven

0:40:22 > 0:40:26by the sceptic thinking and all of that.

0:40:26 > 0:40:31And sometimes I feel I'm a little bit or a lot of the opposite.

0:40:31 > 0:40:34And somehow we have managed to build a life together.

0:40:35 > 0:40:39And I like it. I like the fact that we are completely opposites.

0:40:50 > 0:40:55Randi's always been supportive of my career and my persona.

0:40:55 > 0:40:58All the way through. From the moment we met up to now.

0:41:00 > 0:41:02It's just an amazing...

0:41:04 > 0:41:07No pun intended. ..life,

0:41:07 > 0:41:09being with him.

0:41:11 > 0:41:13I cannot imagine my life without him.

0:41:20 > 0:41:24OK, so just let me know as soon as you leave the airport.

0:41:24 > 0:41:26OK, bye.

0:41:26 > 0:41:29He said they are waiting for luggage.

0:41:32 > 0:41:34So...

0:41:36 > 0:41:39People find it funny that I call him Amazing!

0:41:40 > 0:41:42But I like to call him Amazing.

0:41:51 > 0:41:53I'm a bit tired, you know that?

0:41:56 > 0:41:59Oh, it's so good to be back.

0:41:59 > 0:42:02So good to have you back, Amazing.

0:42:02 > 0:42:05Good to be here after all that travel.

0:42:05 > 0:42:09So good to have you back, Amazing. Now I gotta show you something. Yes.

0:42:09 > 0:42:11As you can see, I got a new cane.

0:42:11 > 0:42:13Yes, oh!

0:42:13 > 0:42:16Yes, and you've got to get the full effect of it now. You ready?

0:42:16 > 0:42:19OK, let me see. That's pretty awesome, Amazing.

0:42:19 > 0:42:22This was given to me by CICAP and Massimo.

0:42:22 > 0:42:24Oh, oh, nice.

0:42:24 > 0:42:26Oh, I remember this place.

0:42:26 > 0:42:27Yeah, we used to live here.

0:42:29 > 0:42:33We are cute, aren't we? Yup, we are.

0:42:33 > 0:42:36It's a good picture. I love that picture.

0:42:39 > 0:42:44This is the guy that left his home at 17 to join a circus

0:42:44 > 0:42:49and go through all the crazy stories

0:42:49 > 0:42:51that he has lived.

0:42:51 > 0:42:56Ooh, the inside of this one is icky. Well, then take it out. No, no.

0:42:56 > 0:43:01There's lots that can be saved here. No, no, no, no. Yes.

0:43:01 > 0:43:04I'll take it out later, then. You probably will.

0:43:05 > 0:43:07'It's quite an amazing ride

0:43:07 > 0:43:12'and I just feel very privileged to have been part of it.'

0:43:23 > 0:43:26Once more, let me hold it here gently.

0:43:31 > 0:43:33I'm not even touching it and it's...

0:43:33 > 0:43:35Look, you see, it's plastic.

0:43:37 > 0:43:41When Geller was on the Tonight Show and Randi had helped Johnny

0:43:41 > 0:43:44set it up such that he would not be able to perform his tricks,

0:43:44 > 0:43:47it sure looked like that was the end of Geller's career.

0:43:47 > 0:43:50Over, done, three strikes and you're out - gone! No!

0:43:50 > 0:43:52Two days later, he's on the Merv Griffin Show.

0:43:52 > 0:43:54And all I'm saying is "bend".

0:43:54 > 0:43:57Bend, bend.

0:43:57 > 0:43:59OK, look, can you see it?

0:43:59 > 0:44:02I mean, it's bent, you know. That is a very bent key.

0:44:02 > 0:44:07Now what happens, it's an energy that leaves my mind, nothing to do

0:44:07 > 0:44:11with my finger, penetrates the metal and alters the molecular structure.

0:44:11 > 0:44:16Now, instead of bend, I say to the broken watches, "Work!"

0:44:16 > 0:44:19AUDIENCE: One, two, three. Work! Work!

0:44:19 > 0:44:23Just a second. It's working! Oh, my goodness, it's working.

0:44:23 > 0:44:26Your mother's watch is working. Is that like a miracle?

0:44:26 > 0:44:29They all started, they're working!

0:44:29 > 0:44:31The "I Am Not A Crook" watch.

0:44:31 > 0:44:33First of all, I was born with this.

0:44:33 > 0:44:35When I was four years old I was eating soup -

0:44:35 > 0:44:37and that's four years old -

0:44:37 > 0:44:39and suddenly the spoon started bending in my hands!

0:44:39 > 0:44:43Now, Geller probably became the first superstar psychic

0:44:43 > 0:44:47to be apparently accepted by science and by scientists.

0:44:47 > 0:44:51Uri has subjected himself or has been subjected to some scientific

0:44:51 > 0:44:55study, what they call cheat-proof, under rigid controlled conditions.

0:44:55 > 0:44:58I want to tell you this, that this is not a trick.

0:44:58 > 0:45:02These are scientists who are putting their whole life at stake

0:45:02 > 0:45:05in validating these powers.

0:45:05 > 0:45:07Randi was very upset by Geller's

0:45:07 > 0:45:11using trickery to deceive scientists.

0:45:11 > 0:45:13He thought that that was very immoral

0:45:13 > 0:45:18and he felt that this was a prostitution of his beloved magic.

0:45:18 > 0:45:20Randi, you've been going around the country,

0:45:20 > 0:45:23somewhat as Houdini used to in the past, trying to debunk those

0:45:23 > 0:45:25who say that it's psychic power.

0:45:25 > 0:45:30You say it's magic. This is my house key. Uri Geller took it.

0:45:30 > 0:45:33He went like this with it, with his finger, that's all, no pressure,

0:45:33 > 0:45:36and the key bent, you can see that,

0:45:36 > 0:45:38and I've carried it around because I found that I'm a believer now.

0:45:38 > 0:45:42Here is my identical key. Touch it and make it bend.

0:45:42 > 0:45:45Would you hold the end of it very lightly in between your fingers,

0:45:45 > 0:45:47Barbara, and I'm just going to stroke it.

0:45:47 > 0:45:50Now, I'm not putting enough pressure on it to bend it? No. OK.

0:45:50 > 0:45:52Will you show it to the camera, please?

0:45:52 > 0:45:55Now, is it bent as much as this key or not?

0:45:55 > 0:45:58Are you going to keep this key too, Barbara?

0:45:58 > 0:45:59APPLAUSE

0:45:59 > 0:46:01In one way I almost followed Geller around the country

0:46:01 > 0:46:04because if he appeared on some major show,

0:46:04 > 0:46:07I simply went on the show and did his same routine.

0:46:07 > 0:46:10Now, when Mr Geller does this, he says, "Bend".

0:46:10 > 0:46:12I don't say that, I say, "Broccoli,"

0:46:12 > 0:46:14because it's a simple conjuring trick that used to be on the back

0:46:14 > 0:46:17of the Cornflake boxes when I was a kid.

0:46:17 > 0:46:20Heavens to Betsy, look at that. Would you say that key is bent?

0:46:20 > 0:46:22I decided to write a book about him.

0:46:22 > 0:46:24I wrote a book, The Truth About Uri Geller,

0:46:24 > 0:46:28that hit the market when the interest in Geller was at its peak.

0:46:28 > 0:46:32The psychokinetic energy melts the molecular structure of the metal.

0:46:32 > 0:46:34It seems to be... Oh, my!

0:46:36 > 0:46:39I want it to bend, I just say "bend". Oh, my God!

0:46:39 > 0:46:41SHE SCREAMS

0:46:42 > 0:46:44THEY SCREAM

0:46:44 > 0:46:47Randi and Geller just went back and forth like gladiators.

0:46:47 > 0:46:49It was fun to watch. Can you do the spoon-bending trick?

0:46:49 > 0:46:51Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?

0:46:53 > 0:46:55There's no heat at all. Touch it.

0:46:55 > 0:46:57They wrote that I have laser beams in my buckle belt

0:46:57 > 0:46:59and with that, I bend keys.

0:46:59 > 0:47:02Look at this. You can actually see it bending over and turning liquid,

0:47:02 > 0:47:04right in front of your eyes.

0:47:04 > 0:47:06These things used to be on the back of Cornflake boxes, Larry,

0:47:06 > 0:47:09but apparently some scientists either don't eat Cornflakes or

0:47:09 > 0:47:11they don't read the back of the box.

0:47:11 > 0:47:15This is my trademark and you will NOT find it on any cereal box.

0:47:16 > 0:47:19How did you do that? Very well, I thought.

0:47:19 > 0:47:20It's sleight of hand.

0:47:20 > 0:47:23To explain the tricks to you would give you one solution,

0:47:23 > 0:47:25but it wouldn't give you all of the solutions.

0:47:25 > 0:47:27'In many cases, if not most cases, I simply went on the show

0:47:27 > 0:47:29'and did his same routine.'

0:47:31 > 0:47:34But then I would get the MC sometimes saying,

0:47:34 > 0:47:36"Oh, yes, well, it's all very well for magicians to do this,

0:47:36 > 0:47:39"but Mr Geller doesn't use magic tricks."

0:47:39 > 0:47:41But what about the people who DO come up with the cards?

0:47:41 > 0:47:43Do you hear about the times they don't come up with them?

0:47:43 > 0:47:46Do you know that Uri Geller did 100 tests with sealed envelopes?

0:47:46 > 0:47:47You think it's all fake?

0:47:47 > 0:47:50What is the difference between what I did and what Uri Geller did?

0:47:50 > 0:47:52Is, uh...because, uh...

0:47:54 > 0:47:58Well, I guess I really don't have a...a...a real answer.

0:47:58 > 0:48:02Because magicians can duplicate some of these things with trickery

0:48:02 > 0:48:06does not mean that genuine psychics do it with trickery.

0:48:06 > 0:48:09Anyone can imitate the Mona Lisa,

0:48:09 > 0:48:11but that does not make them Leonardo da Vinci.

0:48:11 > 0:48:13You people remember that.

0:48:17 > 0:48:20Magicians say, "No, nonsense, I duped the scientists."

0:48:20 > 0:48:24They say I fooled them. They always find loopholes.

0:48:24 > 0:48:25I challenge them and tell them,

0:48:25 > 0:48:28"Look, why don't you go and do it in a laboratory

0:48:28 > 0:48:30"the way I was tested?"

0:48:34 > 0:48:37My opinion has always been that parapsychologists,

0:48:37 > 0:48:39no matter how well funded,

0:48:39 > 0:48:42would not be able to properly judge

0:48:42 > 0:48:46where someone has set out to purposefully deceive them.

0:48:46 > 0:48:50And I had come to the conclusion that the only way to show them

0:48:50 > 0:48:55would be to perpetrate an outright hoax by introducing some tricksters

0:48:55 > 0:48:59into the laboratory that I knew I could trust.

0:48:59 > 0:49:04I read Randi's book, The Truth About Uri Geller, and from that book

0:49:04 > 0:49:07I was able to put methods together for bending objects myself,

0:49:07 > 0:49:10and I created many of my own methods, to the point where kids in high

0:49:10 > 0:49:13school were stealing silverware and bringing it to me to bend.

0:49:13 > 0:49:15And I got so good at it that I'm not sure why,

0:49:15 > 0:49:17but I wrote Randi a letter and I said, "Look, if you ever need a kid

0:49:17 > 0:49:20"to try and fool scientists, I'd be happy to do so."

0:49:20 > 0:49:24After I read The Magic Of Uri Geller and got to be pretty

0:49:24 > 0:49:28proficient as a "psychic metal bender" myself,

0:49:28 > 0:49:31I took it upon myself to reach out to James Randi.

0:49:31 > 0:49:33Oh, Michael, you must be a psychic!

0:49:33 > 0:49:37I'm causing that to twist 180 degrees, just like that.

0:49:37 > 0:49:40Very shortly after, a very substantial amount of money

0:49:40 > 0:49:44had been offered to a university

0:49:44 > 0:49:47to do parapsychological tests.

0:49:47 > 0:49:51MacLab was funded by James McDonnell and he said,

0:49:51 > 0:49:54"Go out and find me some star subjects."

0:49:54 > 0:49:57And that job fell to a scientist called Peter Phillips.

0:49:57 > 0:50:00We were told that there were 300 applicants

0:50:00 > 0:50:04and the MacLab ended up focusing on only two subjects.

0:50:04 > 0:50:07Myself and Steve Shaw.

0:50:07 > 0:50:12At that point, Project Alpha was ready to take off.

0:50:15 > 0:50:18I fly into Saint Louis and we didn't know what we were getting into.

0:50:18 > 0:50:21We didn't know if they were going to have one-way mirrors

0:50:21 > 0:50:22with cameras hidden behind them.

0:50:22 > 0:50:25We had absolutely no clue what it was we were getting into.

0:50:25 > 0:50:29I was 17 years old. It was my first semester as a senior in high school.

0:50:29 > 0:50:34I'm about to pull some basic magic on some people that should be

0:50:34 > 0:50:37very well skilled and could very likely see through this quickly.

0:50:37 > 0:50:41I might have stepped in a little bit over my head at that time.

0:50:41 > 0:50:45I'm Peter Phillips and here with me is Mark Shafer.

0:50:45 > 0:50:48The tape that you're about to see consists of a series

0:50:48 > 0:50:50of episodes suggestive of psychokinesis.

0:50:50 > 0:50:54The subjects in these experiments are two men of about 21 -

0:50:54 > 0:50:56M.E. and S.S.

0:50:56 > 0:51:00They presented themselves to us originally as psychic metal-benders.

0:51:00 > 0:51:04I wrote to Professor Phillips in order to advise him

0:51:04 > 0:51:08on how he should observe the Alpha kids.

0:51:08 > 0:51:11As a matter of fact, I sent him a list of 11 rules

0:51:11 > 0:51:13in order to keep control of an experiment.

0:51:13 > 0:51:16'Don't allow the subjects to alter the rules established for the tests.

0:51:16 > 0:51:20'Don't accept excuses like, "the vibrations aren't right"

0:51:20 > 0:51:22'or "I don't feel right."

0:51:22 > 0:51:23'And above all...'

0:51:23 > 0:51:24..you need a professional magician

0:51:24 > 0:51:28to keep you straightened out at what might be trickery.

0:51:28 > 0:51:30It was very quickly, though, that Steve and I tried to,

0:51:30 > 0:51:34almost line by line, get them to violate every one of those caveats

0:51:34 > 0:51:36in one way, shape or form.

0:51:36 > 0:51:39Mike, sitting to your right and dressed in white has just

0:51:39 > 0:51:41picked up a spoon that he will attempt to influence.

0:51:41 > 0:51:48One of Randi's caveats was to mark every item with an indelible mark

0:51:48 > 0:51:50or a scratch that couldn't be replicated.

0:51:50 > 0:51:51Something that was permanent

0:51:51 > 0:51:55and it was something that we couldn't duplicate on the spot.

0:51:55 > 0:51:58The parapsychologists, in their infinite wisdom,

0:51:58 > 0:52:03decided that they would simply use paper tags with string.

0:52:03 > 0:52:06'Can I get this tag off here? Sure, sure, slide it off.'

0:52:07 > 0:52:11We took these paper hanging tags off of the spoons to make them

0:52:11 > 0:52:12easier to work with.

0:52:12 > 0:52:15As everybody was focusing on one spoon it was a simple matter

0:52:15 > 0:52:20to lean on the control spoon, and later, switch those two tags

0:52:20 > 0:52:23so the control spoon looked like the experimental spoon.

0:52:23 > 0:52:25Yeah, it's markedly different. Of course it is!

0:52:25 > 0:52:26It just went down instead of up.

0:52:26 > 0:52:30It didn't feel like anything at all, but there it is.

0:52:31 > 0:52:35We truly believed that if scientists went in with a pro-biased opinion,

0:52:35 > 0:52:37and the majority of parapsychologists were doing just that,

0:52:37 > 0:52:39they would not use proper science.

0:52:39 > 0:52:45And if we could replicate what Geller and SRI had done, in essence,

0:52:45 > 0:52:50in terms of established scientific protocol on testing a psychic,

0:52:50 > 0:52:52we could undermine Geller's claims

0:52:52 > 0:52:55of being deemed legitimate by scientists.

0:52:55 > 0:52:59We have been working first of all, to establish the range of abilities

0:52:59 > 0:53:03that Mike and Steve have because these have apparently included being

0:53:03 > 0:53:06able to move small solid objects across a table top, influencing

0:53:06 > 0:53:11a variety of metal objects such as keys and metal bars and metal rods.

0:53:11 > 0:53:14Sometimes touching and sometimes at a distance,

0:53:14 > 0:53:17and also influencing photographic film.

0:53:17 > 0:53:20We were trying to get the parapsychologists to

0:53:20 > 0:53:22break their own rules.

0:53:22 > 0:53:28We were then informing Randi of the ways that we were beating the tests.

0:53:28 > 0:53:32Randi in turn was then communicating it back to the MacLab how to

0:53:32 > 0:53:37safeguard their tests so that we couldn't beat them any longer.

0:53:37 > 0:53:40Needless to say, it got very complicated

0:53:40 > 0:53:42as we were forced to become more and more resourceful.

0:53:42 > 0:53:46'Another device designed to illicit PK in a visible manner

0:53:46 > 0:53:50'was a lightweight rotor that was mounted atop a thin metal spindle

0:53:50 > 0:53:52'under a glass dome.'

0:53:52 > 0:53:56One of the tests was a spindle with a small rotor on top that had

0:53:56 > 0:54:00a glass dome that fit over the top of this to protect it.

0:54:00 > 0:54:04Our jobs were to try to move that rotor

0:54:04 > 0:54:07without obviously removing the glass dome.

0:54:07 > 0:54:09I thought that was a pretty good test.

0:54:09 > 0:54:12It's connected to the base real well.

0:54:12 > 0:54:16I really was stumped. Then I look over to the side of the room

0:54:16 > 0:54:20and Steve was concentrating on the rotor and the rotor starts to move.

0:54:20 > 0:54:23Here you see Steve influencing the rotor.

0:54:23 > 0:54:27He's causing it to rotate clockwise.

0:54:27 > 0:54:30And they said, "Well, to make sure there is no air currents or

0:54:30 > 0:54:32"anything like that, can you make it move to the right?"

0:54:32 > 0:54:35So I start concentrating and slowly it starts reversing

0:54:35 > 0:54:36and it goes to the right.

0:54:36 > 0:54:40I had no idea how he was getting this to work.

0:54:40 > 0:54:44And if you look carefully, the rotor is moving counter-clockwise.

0:54:44 > 0:54:45So Mike turns to me and he says,

0:54:45 > 0:54:47"Hey, would you like to go get a drink at the machine?"

0:54:47 > 0:54:50I know he wants to know how I just did this.

0:54:50 > 0:54:51So I go with him down there,

0:54:51 > 0:54:54and he says, "Steve, how the heck did you just do that?"

0:54:54 > 0:54:57And I said, "Mike, after all these hours of sitting in that room

0:54:57 > 0:55:00"and concentrating, I just found out that I'm really a psychic!"

0:55:00 > 0:55:03I think I promptly threw him up against the wall at that point

0:55:03 > 0:55:08and wanted to know, and it turned out it was a very simple deception.

0:55:08 > 0:55:11Shortly after that hallway conversation, both of us

0:55:11 > 0:55:15could magically make the rotor move any direction that we wanted to,

0:55:15 > 0:55:18and the MacLab personnel never caught on.

0:55:18 > 0:55:20I don't believe they're tricking us,

0:55:20 > 0:55:23especially based on the research that we've done in the last year,

0:55:23 > 0:55:26where we have exerted as tight a control condition

0:55:26 > 0:55:29as we could think of, even in consultation with magicians,

0:55:29 > 0:55:32to see if the influence holds up.

0:55:32 > 0:55:35And we have found evidence that it does,

0:55:35 > 0:55:37not as strongly under these controlled conditions.

0:55:37 > 0:55:42It's as if somehow, the extra controls seem to inhibit it,

0:55:42 > 0:55:44but still an effect persists.

0:55:44 > 0:55:46Over the course of Alpha,

0:55:46 > 0:55:48the controls did get significantly tougher

0:55:48 > 0:55:51and the tighter the controls got, the lower the results got,

0:55:51 > 0:55:54but their faith in us never diminished.

0:55:54 > 0:55:57We do not claim that this tape provides incontrovertible

0:55:57 > 0:55:58evidence of PK.

0:55:58 > 0:56:01We regard it rather as a provisional tape,

0:56:01 > 0:56:05imperfect, but still with much to offer.

0:56:05 > 0:56:08It was at that point I think Steve and I realised

0:56:08 > 0:56:09we can't do this any more.

0:56:09 > 0:56:14We can't be responsible for this kind of psychological damage

0:56:14 > 0:56:17by our ability to trick somebody.

0:56:17 > 0:56:19Randi said, "It's just a couple more months.

0:56:19 > 0:56:20"We have this TV show coming up,

0:56:20 > 0:56:24"and that's when we want to tell the world that you're not real."

0:56:25 > 0:56:27Randi, he's really the general.

0:56:27 > 0:56:30You know, the general's rarely on the front lines anyway.

0:56:30 > 0:56:33And sometimes he's sending

0:56:33 > 0:56:36his minions to do his good works.

0:56:36 > 0:56:41But always at a distance, he's the one at the strategy table.

0:56:41 > 0:56:45He's got the vision for what will come.

0:56:45 > 0:56:48The big day comes, the one that Mike and I have been waiting for.

0:56:48 > 0:56:50We're going to reveal that everything is a hoax.

0:56:50 > 0:56:54I'm going to ask these two gentlemen a very simple question.

0:56:54 > 0:56:57Can you tell us, how do you do it?

0:56:57 > 0:57:01As I walked up to the microphone I said, "It's very simple..."

0:57:01 > 0:57:04Well, to be quite honest, we cheat.

0:57:04 > 0:57:08Flash bulbs started going off and the murmurs started up

0:57:08 > 0:57:12inside of the audience, and Steve and I then at that point admitted

0:57:12 > 0:57:16that Project Alpha and us as psychics was nothing more

0:57:16 > 0:57:19than a bit of illusion.

0:57:19 > 0:57:22Magician Amazing Randi, you have him now on the phone.

0:57:22 > 0:57:24Go ahead, you have the last word.

0:57:24 > 0:57:27I was wondering what he thought about the claims that this was

0:57:27 > 0:57:30sort of an unethical way of carrying out this experiment

0:57:30 > 0:57:32and whether or not it's going to affect the scientific community

0:57:32 > 0:57:34and the parapsychologists negatively?

0:57:34 > 0:57:35I'm happy to say that the

0:57:35 > 0:57:38president of the Parapsychological Association described it

0:57:38 > 0:57:41as a magnificent experiment that needed to be done

0:57:41 > 0:57:42and from which the results of

0:57:42 > 0:57:45may benefit everybody, and I think that's what we headed out to do.

0:57:45 > 0:57:48We also should point that that the director of that programme

0:57:48 > 0:57:50thought it was a very lousy thing to do.

0:57:50 > 0:57:53He was quoted as saying that you probably set back the study of it

0:57:53 > 0:57:57and that it... If Phillips said that, then my answer to my having

0:57:57 > 0:57:59set back the study of parapsychology, is no,

0:57:59 > 0:58:01they tried to set it back.

0:58:01 > 0:58:03I brought it into the 20th century.

0:58:03 > 0:58:06'I felt really bad.'

0:58:06 > 0:58:09They truly believed in these things, and I thought that if they had

0:58:09 > 0:58:11realised that they had been fooled by somebody, that they would be

0:58:11 > 0:58:14more cautious in the future, but I felt bad that I had fooled them.

0:58:18 > 0:58:20So you dropped out kind of in the mid-'70s

0:58:20 > 0:58:23and just resurfaced lately, what have you been doing?

0:58:23 > 0:58:26At that time I wanted to become rich.

0:58:26 > 0:58:28And I met a very important man

0:58:28 > 0:58:31who was a chairman of the largest mining company in England

0:58:31 > 0:58:34and he showed me how to use my talents,

0:58:34 > 0:58:37my abilities to look for oil, gold and mineral.

0:58:37 > 0:58:40And I was very, I am very successful at it. You proved it?

0:58:40 > 0:58:43Exactly, but I am still controversial.

0:58:43 > 0:58:46There are a lot of people who think I am fake and a magician,

0:58:46 > 0:58:51but all those people I love because they do free publicity for me.

0:58:51 > 0:58:53Let's try to do the drawing.

0:58:53 > 0:58:56'Do you know how many times the sceptics tried to shoot me down?'

0:58:56 > 0:59:01Do you know how many times Randi tried to ruin my career?

0:59:01 > 0:59:03But they failed miserably.

0:59:03 > 0:59:06Pick up the National Enquirer or any other paper

0:59:06 > 0:59:09and you'll find a billion psychics.

0:59:09 > 0:59:12Look at movies that Hollywood produces about UFOs

0:59:12 > 0:59:16and the psychic powers and paranormal activity.

0:59:16 > 0:59:19Are you kidding me? It's much bigger than ever.

0:59:19 > 0:59:21You are negative, you are setting up your own standards

0:59:21 > 0:59:24and what you're not understanding is that the key to realising any kind of

0:59:24 > 0:59:26psychic phenomenon is first believing in it,

0:59:26 > 0:59:28not the other way around.

0:59:28 > 0:59:31Once you believe, it will happen, it will happen.

0:59:31 > 0:59:35Even you, sir, the not-so-amazing-Randi, are psychic,

0:59:35 > 0:59:37whether or not you want to believe.

0:59:37 > 0:59:39There are millions and millions of people upon this planet

0:59:39 > 0:59:41who have other ways of intuiting and sensing.

0:59:41 > 0:59:44I have never said these things have not happened.

0:59:44 > 0:59:46Why don't you read a few papers and correct yourself?

0:59:46 > 0:59:50People think they believe what they choose to believe. We don't.

0:59:50 > 0:59:53We mostly believe what we NEED to believe.

0:59:53 > 0:59:54You say that Uri Geller is a fake.

0:59:54 > 0:59:57You came here and you've given everybody a lot of lip service

0:59:57 > 0:59:58and you haven't done anything.

0:59:58 > 1:00:01We're going for a commercial break and you can piss off!

1:00:01 > 1:00:02We'll be back...

1:00:03 > 1:00:06The public really doesn't listen

1:00:06 > 1:00:10when they are being told straightforward facts.

1:00:11 > 1:00:15They would rather accept what some charismatic character tells them

1:00:15 > 1:00:18than really think about what the truth might be.

1:00:18 > 1:00:21I tell you from now on you are going to have

1:00:21 > 1:00:23a song of victory in your heart!

1:00:23 > 1:00:26They would rather have the romance and the lies.

1:00:26 > 1:00:30There are a billion believers out there.

1:00:32 > 1:00:34A billion people believe in God.

1:00:34 > 1:00:37You can't touch that.

1:00:37 > 1:00:39There she goes!

1:00:39 > 1:00:41This is what Randi is trying to do.

1:00:41 > 1:00:44He's trying to say this is a big hoax

1:00:44 > 1:00:46and so everything else is a hoax too.

1:00:46 > 1:00:50He is trying to say that nothing divine is being spoken.

1:00:50 > 1:00:54But actually our ratings are up.

1:00:54 > 1:00:59And the thing is, Popoff got back in the business.

1:00:59 > 1:01:02All he changed was he doesn't use a radio any more.

1:01:02 > 1:01:03He doesn't need to.

1:01:03 > 1:01:07He just does dumber stuff that people accept anyway.

1:01:07 > 1:01:11This is water from the pool that the Lord himself led the Christians to

1:01:11 > 1:01:15during the horrible Chernobyl nuclear accident.

1:01:15 > 1:01:20Tens of thousands died and yet every Christian was miraculously spared.

1:01:20 > 1:01:22Randi and I once talked about it and I said, you know,

1:01:22 > 1:01:26maybe were on the wrong end of the business, we should be on that side.

1:01:26 > 1:01:28I mean, he's making like a million dollars a month or more

1:01:28 > 1:01:31and I'm not making a million dollars a month.

1:01:31 > 1:01:34And, if Randi and I got together we could come up with some really

1:01:34 > 1:01:37nifty tricks that would fool people.

1:01:37 > 1:01:38Con people.

1:01:45 > 1:01:48OK, one, two, three.

1:01:48 > 1:01:53ALL: # Happy birthday, dear Randi

1:01:53 > 1:01:57# Happy birthday to you. #

1:01:57 > 1:01:58Let her rip, let her rip.

1:01:58 > 1:02:00CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

1:02:00 > 1:02:01Let her rip!

1:02:01 > 1:02:03APPLAUSE

1:02:03 > 1:02:05Happy birthday, Amazing.

1:02:05 > 1:02:06In the early days, I think

1:02:06 > 1:02:10Randi sort of hid his true relationship with Jose.

1:02:10 > 1:02:13But I don't think Randi hid it for any bad reason.

1:02:13 > 1:02:16I think it was just a thing that people would use against him

1:02:16 > 1:02:19and I think it took Randi a long time to understand that in this day

1:02:19 > 1:02:22and age, you don't have to hide those things any more.

1:02:22 > 1:02:26# Let me tell you my story about our birthday boy named Randi

1:02:26 > 1:02:29# Who met a guy and thought he was just dandy

1:02:29 > 1:02:34# Well, the first thing you know, they form a great team

1:02:34 > 1:02:37# And both are living the American Dream. #

1:02:37 > 1:02:40I remember when Randi came out.

1:02:40 > 1:02:43It was in 2010, at the age of 81.

1:02:43 > 1:02:46I said, "Are you sure, are you sure?"

1:02:46 > 1:02:51But it was just a gesture of complete honesty out there.

1:02:54 > 1:02:59And, morally, having built a life

1:02:59 > 1:03:03around the fact of telling truth,

1:03:03 > 1:03:07he needed to come out publicly.

1:03:08 > 1:03:13Thank you so much, thank you so much for coming to Randi's birthday,

1:03:13 > 1:03:17and for being our friends, for being supportive of both of us.

1:03:17 > 1:03:20And that's it. That's all I got to say.

1:03:20 > 1:03:22APPLAUSE

1:03:22 > 1:03:27'Before, it was all about becoming invisible.

1:03:27 > 1:03:30'Now it should be exactly the opposite.'

1:03:37 > 1:03:40I was here in the house

1:03:40 > 1:03:44and I looked out the window and I saw a uniformed officer outside.

1:03:46 > 1:03:48They were all over the place.

1:03:48 > 1:03:52US Marshals and FBI personnel, as well,

1:03:52 > 1:03:57circling around, trying to prevent anyone from escaping.

1:03:57 > 1:03:58I was terrified.

1:03:58 > 1:04:01I had no idea why they were there.

1:04:03 > 1:04:05I heard rapid knocking at the door.

1:04:05 > 1:04:09I went to the door and they pushed their way in

1:04:09 > 1:04:12and said, "Where is Jose Alvarez?"

1:04:13 > 1:04:17And they put handcuffs on him and marched him out the door.

1:04:18 > 1:04:22I just saw him put in a car and driven out the driveway.

1:04:48 > 1:04:51What a situation. What a situation.

1:04:53 > 1:04:55It's so...

1:04:55 > 1:04:57very disturbing.

1:04:58 > 1:05:02When the police showed up and arrested my partner

1:05:02 > 1:05:05and took him away in handcuffs, I was desperate.

1:05:05 > 1:05:09I just... I was standing at the edge of the dock

1:05:09 > 1:05:12and there were no ships around and I was about to fall into the water.

1:05:12 > 1:05:15I didn't know what to do.

1:05:15 > 1:05:18No matter what his name is, I know who he is,

1:05:18 > 1:05:21and I know what he is as well.

1:05:21 > 1:05:23And he's my partner.

1:05:23 > 1:05:25He's very, very important to me.

1:05:39 > 1:05:44For the last 25 years, everybody has known me as Jose Alvarez.

1:05:46 > 1:05:49But, in reality, my real name

1:05:49 > 1:05:52is Deyvi Orangel Pena Arteaga.

1:05:54 > 1:05:56I was born in Venezuela.

1:05:56 > 1:05:59I was raised in Caracas.

1:05:59 > 1:06:01And in Venezuela, to be gay

1:06:01 > 1:06:06is the most despicable thing that you can be.

1:06:06 > 1:06:09You knew that everybody that was your friend,

1:06:09 > 1:06:12or your loved one or whatever, they would turn against you.

1:06:12 > 1:06:14That's for sure.

1:06:14 > 1:06:17I just knew that I should hide it.

1:06:18 > 1:06:22When I was 16 years old I was at a party

1:06:22 > 1:06:25and three guys came and grabbed me from behind

1:06:25 > 1:06:27and one of them put a gun to my head

1:06:27 > 1:06:30and started just yelling all kinds of things.

1:06:30 > 1:06:33"The little faggot," and so on, and so on.

1:06:33 > 1:06:36I said, "I have to get out of here or I will be killed."

1:06:38 > 1:06:41And I came here to study art

1:06:41 > 1:06:44and I started seeing like, wow.

1:06:44 > 1:06:48I don't have to be like, you know, who is looking at me? I have to hide.

1:06:48 > 1:06:51But still it stays in your brain,

1:06:51 > 1:06:54that in order to survive, I needed to pretend.

1:06:56 > 1:07:00But I just didn't have any way to stay in this country.

1:07:01 > 1:07:04And then I met Randi.

1:07:07 > 1:07:11So, I actually found someone who got a name for me...

1:07:13 > 1:07:17..and they told me that this person was deceased,

1:07:17 > 1:07:21and that this name didn't belong to anyone.

1:07:23 > 1:07:28So I wrestled with that situation for quite a while

1:07:28 > 1:07:30whether to go ahead with this.

1:07:30 > 1:07:33But I just didn't have any choice.

1:07:33 > 1:07:36So I decided to do it, to take the name.

1:07:37 > 1:07:41But I wasn't really that aware of what I was doing, you know.

1:07:41 > 1:07:43The thing snowballed.

1:07:44 > 1:07:47One of these three men pretended to be possessed.

1:07:47 > 1:07:50Number two, what is your name, please?

1:07:50 > 1:07:52My name is Jose Alvarez.

1:07:52 > 1:07:55Only one of these people is the real Jose Alvarez

1:07:55 > 1:07:59and is the only one sworn To Tell The Truth.

1:08:02 > 1:08:05Trying to escape such a terrible situation,

1:08:05 > 1:08:08I kind of got jailed in a different one.

1:08:11 > 1:08:14With the Jose Alvarez identity,

1:08:14 > 1:08:16I applied for a passport under that name

1:08:16 > 1:08:20and then I went to Australia to play the Carlos Hoax.

1:08:20 > 1:08:24And I just set off to train him to be a so-called channeller.

1:08:24 > 1:08:29I have lived through many reincarnations.

1:08:29 > 1:08:31My last one was in Venezuela.

1:08:31 > 1:08:34Also keep very wide, keep very wide,

1:08:34 > 1:08:36cos you're going to be on a big stage.

1:08:36 > 1:08:39He learned fast and we were using the Peter Popoff method.

1:08:39 > 1:08:43I've heard you described as a fraud and a charlatan.

1:08:43 > 1:08:44That's a very rude comment.

1:08:44 > 1:08:47Well, that's a very rude comment.

1:08:47 > 1:08:48He did a wonderful job,

1:08:48 > 1:08:51but, after all, that's the kind of thing he does well.

1:08:51 > 1:08:55I am using this body, Jose Alvarez.

1:08:55 > 1:08:58He is an artist in the United States.

1:08:58 > 1:09:01The whole thing was totally against my persona.

1:09:02 > 1:09:05I knew that I was playing this fictitious character.

1:09:05 > 1:09:08I just felt, I just felt like a phoney.

1:09:09 > 1:09:12You know, but I have to go on with it.

1:09:20 > 1:09:22No! No!

1:09:24 > 1:09:28It turned out that there was a real person named Jose Alvarez...

1:09:30 > 1:09:35..and he decided to apply for a passport after 25 years of me

1:09:35 > 1:09:37living with this identity.

1:09:37 > 1:09:39The moment of truth is about to arrive.

1:09:39 > 1:09:42Will the real Jose Alvarez please stand up?

1:09:45 > 1:09:49CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

1:09:52 > 1:09:55The problem is, once you start to tell people that you're genuine,

1:09:55 > 1:09:59it's really hard to step away from that because you've lied to people.

1:09:59 > 1:10:01You've lied to their face.

1:10:01 > 1:10:04It was extremely difficult when I was fooling the scientists.

1:10:04 > 1:10:08You know, at first I saw them as the enemy. It was me against the enemy.

1:10:08 > 1:10:12But over time, they become your friends. Were we violating laws?

1:10:13 > 1:10:16Probably. Was it fraud in some cases?

1:10:16 > 1:10:17Most definitely.

1:10:17 > 1:10:20Did we look at it that way at the time?

1:10:20 > 1:10:22I don't think any of us did,

1:10:22 > 1:10:25because we thought the ends justified the means.

1:10:26 > 1:10:29Deception has so many layers.

1:10:29 > 1:10:31I mean, you have the zenith of deception

1:10:31 > 1:10:33and people go to jail for that.

1:10:33 > 1:10:36But then you have magicians.

1:10:36 > 1:10:38They manipulate the truth.

1:10:38 > 1:10:41They are in the business of deceiving people.

1:10:42 > 1:10:45Alpha and Carlos and Popoff,

1:10:45 > 1:10:47these incredible revelations of deception,

1:10:47 > 1:10:52they're actually sort of giant cons in their own sense, right?

1:10:52 > 1:10:54But they're cons on the right side.

1:10:55 > 1:10:58This is what it means to be an honest liar.

1:10:58 > 1:11:02It's the difference between using deception to conceal the truth,

1:11:02 > 1:11:05and using deception to reveal the truth.

1:11:07 > 1:11:11Up until now, you haven't really said

1:11:11 > 1:11:15anything about Jose being Deyvi.

1:11:15 > 1:11:17Here's where I'd like to start. OK.

1:11:17 > 1:11:21I think it would be good if you said something like,

1:11:21 > 1:11:25"I feel I should come clean."

1:11:25 > 1:11:28No, no, no, no. That admits guilt. OK.

1:11:28 > 1:11:31I should make something clear.

1:11:31 > 1:11:32That's much better.

1:11:32 > 1:11:35Are you afraid of the ramifications?

1:11:35 > 1:11:39I have all kinds of fear of that, yes.

1:11:40 > 1:11:42Fear of what? I'm not clear.

1:11:42 > 1:11:46If I don't have to say, "Yes, I knew that he had a false identity

1:11:46 > 1:11:50"and he perpetrated it... on the American nation"...

1:11:52 > 1:11:54..I don't want to say that!

1:11:54 > 1:11:57Look at what he was going through.

1:11:57 > 1:11:59He was going through hell.

1:11:59 > 1:12:01If he went back to Venezuela, he would...

1:12:01 > 1:12:06He would be constantly victimised and abused and

1:12:06 > 1:12:08attacked.

1:12:08 > 1:12:10No, I couldn't see that.

1:12:10 > 1:12:12I...

1:12:12 > 1:12:15I had to accept what I saw happening.

1:12:16 > 1:12:20No, none of this must be used. I mean, really. I...

1:12:20 > 1:12:23If I thought that any of this would be used,

1:12:23 > 1:12:25I would abandon the film entirely.

1:12:25 > 1:12:28No, no, no, no. But I'm being honest with you.

1:12:28 > 1:12:30Now, I'm being taped at the same time and I have to trust you.

1:12:30 > 1:12:34OK, well... And I will and I do. But we had discussed this.

1:12:34 > 1:12:39I'm willing to say the story that I gave you on this camera.

1:12:39 > 1:12:41That's fine, OK. I'm not asking you to do anything else.

1:12:41 > 1:12:46But I want the rest of it to vanish, please. This last part?

1:12:46 > 1:12:48Yes, understood, understood.

1:12:50 > 1:12:52No worries.

1:12:54 > 1:12:57I trust you or I wouldn't be doing this. Thank you.

1:13:03 > 1:13:06We all spin personal narratives.

1:13:07 > 1:13:10And so when an event happens that doesn't fit this idea that

1:13:10 > 1:13:13he's this amazing truth-teller and so on,

1:13:13 > 1:13:16then something has to happen to that event and, like everyone,

1:13:16 > 1:13:19he may well change a few facts around or rub it out completely.

1:13:21 > 1:13:27In entertainment, there is a kind of acceptability to deceive.

1:13:28 > 1:13:33It's like when there are two Picasso paintings on the wall.

1:13:33 > 1:13:36One is a fake, and the other one is real,

1:13:36 > 1:13:38but they look the same.

1:13:38 > 1:13:39There's no harm in that.

1:13:41 > 1:13:45At the end of the day, there's nothing to reveal.

1:13:47 > 1:13:50Because what I do is real.

1:13:50 > 1:13:52What you do is real.

1:14:12 > 1:14:15I think I slept last night. Some part of it, anyway.

1:14:22 > 1:14:26Today, officially, we'll find out what the judge has to say.

1:14:28 > 1:14:29It's got to be the right thing.

1:14:33 > 1:14:36Or I don't know what I'm going to do, or what...

1:14:38 > 1:14:39..what Jose is going to do.

1:14:44 > 1:14:47He's specifically an immigration judge,

1:14:47 > 1:14:50and he apparently likes to...

1:14:53 > 1:14:54..suggest removal.

1:14:56 > 1:14:58That would be the end of him.

1:15:08 > 1:15:12The end of him and the end of us, automatically.

1:15:14 > 1:15:16His life literally hangs in the balance.

1:15:19 > 1:15:21And I feel somehow that

1:15:21 > 1:15:25I've got to come out with some rabbit-out-of-the-hat

1:15:25 > 1:15:28to try to get him back here where he belongs

1:15:28 > 1:15:30and not behind bars.

1:16:00 > 1:16:04I was just in a state of total suspension,

1:16:04 > 1:16:08you know, just waiting for him to say what the sentence was.

1:16:08 > 1:16:11It was something I had hoped for, that we'd all hoped for.

1:16:14 > 1:16:15We won.

1:16:15 > 1:16:17We won this one.

1:16:30 > 1:16:33People were really beautiful talking.

1:16:42 > 1:16:46I'm not really sure how I feel, but I'm feeling very, uh...

1:16:48 > 1:16:51..thankful. That's how I feel, very thankful.

1:16:52 > 1:16:55I'm not one person, I've got a partner.

1:16:55 > 1:16:59For the last quarter of a century, I've had this partner.

1:16:59 > 1:17:01We're one element.

1:17:01 > 1:17:05And I have never hesitated to reach out to help him

1:17:05 > 1:17:07in every possible way.

1:17:09 > 1:17:11I know Randi.

1:17:11 > 1:17:15He has a mission out there in the world,

1:17:15 > 1:17:20as The Amazing Randi. But his compassion...

1:17:20 > 1:17:26People don't know how much he cares when he sees someone in distress.

1:17:28 > 1:17:32And it's not just on a social level

1:17:32 > 1:17:34but also on a personal level.

1:17:34 > 1:17:39And I include myself specifically in that equation,

1:17:39 > 1:17:42that he...

1:17:42 > 1:17:47he will do what is necessary to save somebody.

1:17:52 > 1:17:54Don't worry about it, yeah.

1:17:57 > 1:18:01Here? Yeah. No, a little bit further, over here.

1:18:01 > 1:18:05Here? OK. OK...

1:18:05 > 1:18:07OK. Great.

1:18:07 > 1:18:10What do you think? No? Yeah?

1:18:10 > 1:18:11Randi said years ago,

1:18:11 > 1:18:14"There is nothing that a man can make that I can't get out of."

1:18:16 > 1:18:19That line is actually a Houdini line.

1:18:19 > 1:18:21And the difference was that Houdini, you know,

1:18:21 > 1:18:23if someone ever did bring something,

1:18:23 > 1:18:25like a pair of handcuffs that no way he could get out,

1:18:25 > 1:18:28Houdini's guys, his goons, would take the guy out back

1:18:28 > 1:18:29and beat the crap out of the guy

1:18:29 > 1:18:32and the audience never saw the guy again.

1:18:32 > 1:18:33But I bet you anything,

1:18:33 > 1:18:37Randi truly believed there was nothing he couldn't get out of.

1:18:38 > 1:18:42Or make it at least seem like he was getting out of them.

1:18:42 > 1:18:44And I'll quote him directly.

1:18:45 > 1:18:46"I'm a magician.

1:18:47 > 1:18:50"I know how to deceive people,

1:18:50 > 1:18:54"and I know how to recognise when people are being deceived.

1:18:56 > 1:18:59"I can cheat you countless different ways and you won't know.

1:18:59 > 1:19:01"You won't catch me."

1:19:03 > 1:19:05Some people cannot believe that

1:19:05 > 1:19:10a magician can fool them in such a way that they can't figure it out.

1:19:10 > 1:19:13But magicians can and magicians do.

1:19:14 > 1:19:17Don't be too sure of yourself.

1:19:17 > 1:19:21No matter how smart or well educated you are, you can be deceived.

1:19:25 > 1:19:27MUSIC: The Magic Touch by The Platters

1:19:27 > 1:19:33# You've got the magic touch

1:19:33 > 1:19:38# It makes me glow so much... #

1:19:38 > 1:19:41OK, that's weird. This is all that I'm getting.

1:19:41 > 1:19:42I have no clue what this is.

1:19:42 > 1:19:47# It casts a spell, it rings a bell, the magic touch

1:19:47 > 1:19:53# Oh, when I feel your charm

1:19:53 > 1:19:56# It's like a four alarm... #

1:19:57 > 1:20:01My jewellery are a catalyst to the powers of your mind.

1:20:01 > 1:20:03Yes. It's all in the mind.

1:20:03 > 1:20:06# You've got the magic touch

1:20:06 > 1:20:11# Here I go reeling

1:20:11 > 1:20:17# Oh, I'm feeling the glow

1:20:17 > 1:20:24# But where can I go from you?

1:20:26 > 1:20:31# I didn't know too much

1:20:31 > 1:20:35# And then I felt your touch

1:20:35 > 1:20:39# And now I've learned

1:20:39 > 1:20:42# I can return

1:20:42 > 1:20:49# The magic touch. #

1:20:52 > 1:20:54APPLAUSE